Sean O'Connell Show - Full POD 8-7-25

OC talks NBA offseason with Gordie Chiesa, Utah & Big 12 Football with Ari Temkin, Over/Under interceptions for Utah in 2025, Camp Kyle sound + more

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
He's the Sean O'Connell Show, brought to you by Big
Willies on Utah's number one sports talk and home of
the ESPN seven and ninety two. One half Am, a
proud part of Utah's ESPN Radio Network.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Happy Persday, everybody, Welcome to the Shan O'Connell Show.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Always happy to have you with us.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Thursday edition to the show today will feature our guy
Gordy Chieza for an hour in studio Gordy. We'll then
take a little sabbatical from the Sean O'Connell Show for
I don't know, eight weeks or so before basketball really
gets rolling again. Ari Tempkin, Big twelve Insider, College Football Insider,

(00:55):
going to join us at one o'clock as well.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
We've got lots to get to on the show today.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
We've got some sound from Camp Kyle, Utah Football Camp
in Earnest.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
Now they're in real pads.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
You're starting to get the actual hitting and your starters.
They're established in a lot of places, but real football
is what it takes to start figuring out the pecking
order for position battles, and you're getting that now. Jerry
Sinner Cadillac SNS Roofing America First Credit Union, Mountain Land,

(01:29):
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(01:50):
Show specifically is brought to you by a friends at
Big Willie's. Go check out the lunch special they have
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is a mountain of delicious craft food. And if you're
so inclined, you can accompany that with a nice soft
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job allows it. Seventeen seventeen South Main Telemos Sencha shoot

(02:13):
some pool in the pool hall. They just refel to
the tables and watch whatever's on TV, which for us
right now ESPN on We've got Little League World Series,
Little League Softball World Series happening right now. So there's
a lot going on, and there's when you're watching these

(02:33):
young kids play sports. One of the things that you
see is the Utah spellings of names. Have they they've
gone outside the Utah borders. All right, maybe we're a
little bit harsh on our own cultural stereotypes when people
add unnecessary wys, in ghs and eighs to names. It's

(02:56):
not just a Utah thing, apparently, although it is very
quintessentially Utah to have a normal name with an insane
spelling for whatever, then eighth kid in the family is Anyway,
we've been setting over unders. We're gonna do a start
bench cut on Friday. I'm saving it specifically for the

(03:17):
Voice of the Youths, Bill Riley, who joins us on Fridays.
He likes to participate in the start bench cut. So
I'm saving start bench cut for tomorrow and we'll wrap
up the week with that. The over unders that we've
been focusing on have been offensive, and this is the
one I told you this is going to be the

(03:37):
most confounding one, the most difficult one, the most problematic
one potentially because you have to try to be a
realist while also hoping for significant improvement. Now that's I've
set all these numbers based on that principle. Be a realist,
but hope for better things. Be a realist but hope

(03:58):
that things do improve. Don't set expectations that are unattainable,
but by all means, feel like this Utah offense is
gonna perform better than they did last year. Now, some
of the numbers from last year are banana sandwich, some
of them are just absolutely crazy, and some of the

(04:20):
numbers are.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
It's kind of surprising.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
I also realize my mistake in these over unders that
I've been setting.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
I did not put them in i did not put
them in pole form.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
So we're just getting a little bit of feedback eight
seven seven three five three zero seven hundred.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Always love to hear from you at real OC sports.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
But in order to get the more general consensus of
whether the fan base things that overs or unders are
realistic or are possible, you gotta make it a one
click kind of thing. You gotta make it a low
barrier to entry and path of least resistance type answer.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
So I did that.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Now I've gone back and I have polified all of
our over unders so far. I've turned them into Twitter polls.
So some of the questions, most of the questions are redundant,
but I'm trying to make it easier for you to
ATRIALOC sports go and answer, so I can get a
general sense of where the fan base sits on the
numbers that I've set. The number for today, the first

(05:29):
number for today, because we got a couple. The first
number for today I want to talk about is one
of the more unpleasant, one of the more unpleasant offensive numbers.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
You can discuss.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Everyone likes, ooh, how many passing touchdowns, how many rush
yards per game? What's your leading rushier going to have
this year? All that kind of stuff. Well, that's great,
we enjoy that. What about interceptions thrown the criticism, the
question mark, the well, hold on, let's pump the brakes

(06:02):
a little bit on our excitement around Devin Dampierre, who
is legitimately one of the most dynamic and explosive players
at the position in all of college football. With respect
to everyone else, all the other signal callers. Very few guys,

(06:22):
I mean, I'm just talking about the numbers. Very few
guys out there are even capable of doing with their
arm and their legs what Devin Dampier is capable of. Obviously,
the legs portion of that is where he truly excels
if he can get his arm, talent and his decision
making to catch up with you know, the not even

(06:44):
the elite, elite elite.

Speaker 4 (06:45):
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (06:45):
I don't need somebody to be Drew Aller.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Sam Levitt in the conference had a great touchdown interception
ratio at Arizona State last year, a big part of
why they were so successful. If Devin can just split
the difference and instead of a one to one, he
can have a one and a half to one, I'd
be thrilled with a two to one touchdown interception ratio.
And the number I set yesterday for touchdown passes was

(07:12):
twenty three and a half. A lot of people took
the under thinking it'd be somewhere between twenty and twenty four.
Now the question is, what about the interceptions. Do we
expect Devin Dampierre, when he's better protected behind this offensive line,
when he's more comfortable in the offense, to throw fewer
interceptions this year than he did last year through twelve

(07:35):
last year, as all of you know, So eleven and
a half is the number. I set it at eleven
and a half. Interceptions thrown by the University of Utah
and of course, our hope is that every interception thrown
or not will be the starting quarterback will be the
guy will be Devin Dampierre. The number last year, I'll

(07:57):
get to it in a second. The number last year sucked,
but it certainly was partially a product of how many
different quarterbacks played, because guys didn't get into a rhythm.
Cam Rising through interceptions because he was hurt. Isaac Wilson
through interceptions because he was hurt. Like there's just there's

(08:18):
true freshman stuff too with Isaac Quaer absolutely, Like I mean,
there's the number of quarterbacks you play and the amount
of interceptions you throw, I would imagine has a pretty
direct correlation, if not a causation. Did the Ferrari throw
a pick? Is he pickless for his career? I believe
that Luke Patari has the most decorated like percentage numbers,

(08:43):
his touchdown interception ratio if he if he indeed went
had a clean sheet as far as interceptions go, is
the best in Utah football history. Luke Patari two games
played in twenty twenty three seven for eleven Okay, he
retires as a ute. Five games played, sixty three percent

(09:07):
completion percentage, one touchdown pass thrown and you guessed it.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Zero interceptions. Look at that.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Look at that, that's Ferrari numbers.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Baby, I was gonna do the verm room sound.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
I'm glad you did, okay, so to me all right?
Also also two rushing touchdowns yeah against Colorado, right, both
of them in twenty three. Right and let me see, Uh,
I believe no fumbles man. So that's a man who

(09:41):
gives you three touchdowns and no turnovers. Baby, whoa, that's
a ratio. That is a ratio, my my guy. Uh
you want to you want a quarterback who's never gonna
turn the ball over and who's gonna who's gonna throw
a rush for multiple touchdowns. Not in the game, mind you,
but over a career. I present to you the Ferrari

(10:04):
NFL UFL your remove so over eleven and a half
interceptions thrown, meaning you hit twelve at least or under
eleven and a half interceptions thrown? Does he match is
is devon matching or exceeding his interception total from last year?

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Or is he going under?

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Now?

Speaker 2 (10:26):
The biggest thing here for me is that, yes, you're
an experienced quarterback in this offense. But Devin does not
have a long history with any of the targets that
he's throwing to, which does matter when it comes to interceptions,
which does matter when it comes to that nonverbal and

(10:49):
verbal communication, when it comes to being on the same
page with a receiver or with a tight end. That
was one of the things that cam Rising did a
great job of getting up to speed quickly with guys.
But let's remember that cam Rising had a whole year
on the team before he was expected to win a game.
He was killing people, killing it on the scout team,

(11:09):
and he was developing chemistry with guys in the locker room,
behind the scenes, all that kind of stuff. Devin is
a dude who has excelled in that regard according to
all reports.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
But there is no substitute for time.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
You can be the most friendly, charismatic, best leader. Hey,
I really need you guys to get on the same
page with me, and you still have to have time,
and he's had very little time so far. On one
thing I'll say that I think is a good sign. Now,

(11:47):
of course, you can say whatever you want. It doesn't
mean anything until we see it on the field. But
he you were there the day that they made him
available first day of UH of fall camp, and he
specifically shouted out his chemistry, his developing chemistry with Tobias Merriweather.

(12:07):
No one asked him about that, he just offered it.
And then yesterday we talked with Tobias and someone asked
him directly about it, but he said, yeah, the chemistry
is really good with Devin. So that's that. I think
that's a really good sign. And also, you got with
Ryan Adams.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Is he the guy that was.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
On the UH Maybe I'm maybe I'm messing up his name.
Ryan Davis was Mexico. It was with New Mexico, So
you get you got one. You have one target he's
somewhat familiar with. And it sounds like he and Tobias
got a good thing going in camp. Again, sounding like
is much better than what it looks like, and and
and the and the What really.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
Matters is is seeing them actually have that camp.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
And I have no doubt that that chemistry is developing
and it's probably developing at an accelerated rate because of
who Devin is and because of how familiar he is
with the offense.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
But again, experience matters.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
Time in a system just does matter, Like you gotta
be comfortable with the people you're working with. I mean, James,
you and I like, we've gotten along since day one.
But the more reps you get, the more natural it becomes.
And that's just how it is probably in every job.
Gordy Chiers is gonna be with us in about fifteen minutes.
He'll probably give us plenty of anecdotal stories about how, hey, wow,

(13:27):
these guys got along great, but it actually took a
year for them together before they really became the fullness
or reached the fullness of their potential. So that could
influence a higher interception number. Right, Devin's familiarity and more experience.
And this is my second year as the guy. Really,
you know, even though it's my first year at this

(13:47):
level being the guy.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
This isn't I know what it's like.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
I've seen the bullets live, I know exactly, or I
have some approximation of the speed. And New Mexico did
play power for team last year and he performed well yeah,
I mean they they played a power forward team and
they played I mean wazoos kind of in between, but
had a lot of players left over from their final

(14:12):
pack twelve years so that he had some they played
Oregon State last year too, with that different, different situation
with Oregon State, but it was he he has some
experience against higher level teams than Mountain West, even though
he played a Mountain West schedule.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
That that's a great point.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
The other the other question mark is we've seen lots
of success all over the nation with really talented quarterbacks
who've transferred and then been awesome in their first year
in a new place. But just because we have so
many examples to point two does not mean that that's
going to be the case for everybody. So that's the

(14:49):
other thing that remains to be seen. We believe that
he'll that he'll be able to adjust to a big
twelve schedule and a Power Force schedule.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
They're playing UCLA right away in the season opener, but.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
We don't know for sure that it might how much
time it will take for him to be like, WHOA,
this speed, he might he might have a little shell shock. WHOA,
this speed's a little different at the Power four level
for those keeping score. By the way, Devin dan Pierre
passing had five hundred and fifty ish yards, four touchdowns,

(15:25):
three interceptions against Auburn and Arizona last year. Who are
the bona fide Power four teams that New Mexico played against.
Right against Arizona, he rushed for fifteen carries, one hundred
and thirty yards and two touchdowns.

Speaker 3 (15:41):
He put up a lot of highlights in that game.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
So he was very, very productive in that game. And
actually against Auburn, it was one of the rare New
Mexico games where he was not the leading rusher it.
Eli Sanders had seven carries for seventy two yards in
that game. Devin still had six yards of carry five
carries for thirty one yards, and a lot of that
was because you know, they were down early and they

(16:05):
didn't get to run the ball much. Against Auburn, you
had to try to play from behind. And even even
in that case, shout out Eli Sanders ten yards to
carry against an SEC team when you're at New Mexico,
Good on you, son, So eleven and a half the
over under an eleven and a half interceptions thrown for
Devin Dan Pierre, I'm trying to give you a broad

(16:27):
strokes of what influences that number in a Utah uniform.
Right better protected this year? Almost certainly there's a ninety
nine point nine percent chance that Devin is going to
have more time, he's going to be under less duress,
he's going to have better throw windows. He's a short guy,

(16:48):
so that does matter and that should improve, Right, So
how much does that improve his interceptions?

Speaker 3 (16:55):
Number?

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Part of the reason the flip side to the e
loose miess coin and the fact that he didn't get
sacked ever, was that he sometimes was trying to force
the ball downfield in a dynamic play and that ended
up being an interception. Right, So maybe two or three
interceptions gone because of that, But are those subtracted interceptions

(17:18):
may be replaced by Well, you're also playing against much
better defenses.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Now, the defensive backs.

Speaker 2 (17:24):
The difference in defensive backs in this Big Twelve and
the defensive backs in last year's Mountain West Conference, it's
a leap, man. It's not like high school to college leap.
It's not college to the NFL leap. But when you're
talking about the breadth of talent at a premium position

(17:45):
in college football in the Big Twelve versus the Mountain
West Conference, every Mountain West Conference team that he faced
last year that he was throwing against, had you know,
a guy, maybe two guys that were like, Wow, that
dude might get some reps at the University of Utah.
That dude, that defensive back, that safety, that corner, that nickel,

(18:08):
that guy is a really good player. Every team in
the Mount West Conference had one, some had three, some
had two. In the Big Twelve Conference, it's everyone's got five.
Everyone's got at.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Least three or four.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
You've got every starter, got your starters, and you've got
a couple of guys on the bench. Every starter at
the Big twelve level is that one dude that you
were just able to avoid in the Mount West Conference.
Every starter in the Big twelve, so where last year
you were probably Coach Beck and Devin were probably able

(18:48):
to sit down in a couple of situations and just
be like, hey, this Ike Larson kid at Utah State,
don't try and throw at him, Okay, just like wherever
he's at, just go somewhere else because he's a playmaker.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
And they're like, all right, cool, I will I will
avoid that. I will.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
You know, in my whatever it was forty dropbacks, I
will say, all right, where's number X, and I'll just
go somewhere else, or where where's number eleven?

Speaker 3 (19:20):
And where's number twenty? Eight.

Speaker 2 (19:22):
Those guys are the ones that I need to look off.
Those are the ones that I need to fool a
little bit. And this other dude, we can pick on him.
I mean, even at the Power five level, even in
the even in the Big twelve, even in the SEC. Right,
you've got guys that are not the equal of the
dude on their own team. You've got guys that are
the weakest link in that chain. Every team has them.

(19:46):
You gotta find him if you're a good coach, even
really great teams, even a strong chain has a weak
link somewhere. It's not very weak, but it's the weakest
of those links. It's relatively weak. It's not it's not
actually so instead of being like, all right, well, we're
gonna find the pretty obvious weakness in this Mountain West
Conference defensive backfield, now you got to find the relative

(20:08):
weaknesses in a Big twelve defensive backfield, right, And sometimes
if a defensive backfield is really good, it means okay,
now we got to exploit the relative weakness of those
linebackers against a team like BYU.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
It's gonna be the opposite of that.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
Like BYU's linebackers are probably good enough that those crossing
routes in that you know, five to eleven yard range,
those are gonna be a little bit harder to come
by against a team like that. Same is probably true
with Kansas State, same is probably true with Texas Tech.
And by the way, you're not gonna have much time
with all the money spent on pass rush by Texas Tech, right,

(20:48):
So you're gonna make these adjustments, but you do have
to make the adjustments, and the quarterback is the guy
that has to make the adjustments. The coaching staff is
gonna do their damnedest to put him in positions for excess,
but he's the dude who either pulls the trigger on
the throw, or progresses to the next one and then
pulls the trigger there, or keeps working down the route

(21:11):
tree until he says, oh, guess what I went through?
Read number one, read number two, read number three, and
nobody's open. I better get my booty, move in and
try to pick something up with my legs, get down
to the pylon, get out of bounds, save myself for
another down. He has to make those kinds of decisions,
and he's got to do it against better defenses, faster defenses,

(21:34):
smarter defenses with bigger, longer, rangier guys, who, by the way,
are going to be a little bit more clever.

Speaker 3 (21:41):
Also, we talk.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
About the athletic differences between the levels between the tiers
of college football, and we were reading our Freaks list
yesterday and those are significant.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
All right.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I can tell you this because I played at the
FCS life. I was on the team at the FBS
level when Utah was a Mountain West Conference team, right,
And when you see when you when you are on
the field covering games, not practicing or playing, when you're

(22:15):
down there on field level, and you see where Utah
is now in the Pac twelve and the Big twelve,
there are levels, and it's just a reality. The bodies
are bigger, they move just as fast. And the thing
we don't talk about because it's harder to measure, is
those guys are oftentimes those bigger, faster guys are also

(22:36):
oftentimes more instinctual, better educated football players.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
They're more complete products.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Right, So Devin is going to be up against much
better defenses than he saw week in and week out
in the mount West Conference. And what have we said
since I mean since Utah made the transition, and then
when BYU had to do the same thing going from
an independent schedule where it was like, hey, man, you
have like four or five games a year that Tom

(23:04):
Holmo put together that are bona fide, big time power
four games, power five at the time games, and then
you have a bunch of built in wins because you
got to fill in UMass at the end of the
year and you got to play a couple of Mountain
West Conference teams. Like we talk about it all the time,
the biggest difference is the week in and the week out.

(23:27):
Devin dan Pierre is the guy that when it's New
Mexico versus Boise States, it's New Mexico versus Arizona, it's
New Mexico versus Auburn, and those are the three tough
games on your schedule, you can be like, all right, man,
I believe you're gonna be crazy production. I just gave
you his numbers against Auburn. The team sucked. New Mexico

(23:48):
wasn't good, all right. Auburn wasn't that good either, But
what you saw he was a productive player. He had
big numbers as a as a runner and as a thrower.
He did well against Auburn, right he's got to do
that every single week.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
And he threw, like I said, four.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
Touchdowns, three interceptions against Arizona and against Auburn. Those were
the numbers. Five hundred and fifty yards of passing. Ish,
what do we come out to? It was like one
hundred and eighty yards rushing and two touchdowns. So he
accounted for six touchdowns and three turnovers against Division one

(24:29):
power for talent last year? Is that going to be
a realistic target, a realistic number. Everyone looks at the
touchdown to interception ratio. We had someone Texas in last week.
It's actually probably more relevant to look at his touchdown
to turnover ratio. He didn't fumble the ball a lot,

(24:49):
and while he didn't throw as many touchdown passes, he
scored a hell of a lot of touchdown runs. So
if you look at his touchdown to turnover ratio at
New Mexico, that's a much X year number. But we're
talking about interceptions right now, and we set the over
under at eleven and a half. Last year he touched
the over He threw twelve this year. Will he throw fewer?

(25:12):
Can you get by if he throws just as many?
Tell me what you think eight seven seven three five
three zero seven hundred. And to put it in context,
where would you sit if you hit that over or
you hit that under, if you're at that that Mason
Dixon line. Let me get well, James, I'm glad you asked.
If you hit the over, meaning you hit twelve, you

(25:35):
would have tied Kansas for tenth in the conference. If
you're at eleven, you're in a four way tie at
number seven in the conference. Just right there in the middle,
right there in the middle. Isn't now wild how all
of these improving on all of these numbers brings Utah
right to the middle. It speaks to just how bad
the offense was to know that this much of an

(25:57):
improvement in I mean, we're talking about one interception improvement
with this, that's not that big a deal. But in
these other ones, there were much more significant improvement in
these other numbers you set for over unders, and it's
only getting you to the middle.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
Like it's like.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
The touchdown passes one, you gotta throw four more touchdown
passes to get to the middle. You gotta throw the
same number of interceptions with a barrier or a margin
of one to be in the middle of the conference.
But again we saw how close some of Utah's games
were last year. One one possession games in what we

(26:36):
decided it was five different games that if one possession
in is in a touchdown instead of a punt or
a missed field goal or a missfield goal at all, Yeah,
you're you're You're now a ten win team.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Yep, that's a huge difference.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
The margin for error is incredibly thin in a conference
with a lot of parody. Arizona State led the conference
in their touchdown interception ratio twenty six passing touchdowns. They
threw six interceptions last year. I haven't I haven't looked
to see if anyone besides Levitt through I think it
was Levit who threw all six interceptions. Arizona State was

(27:11):
first with six, Cincinnati had seven, and then it was Colorado, Baylor,
Iowa State, Kansas State who threw ten. Then, as I mentioned,
there was a three way tie TCU, Texas Tech UCF
with eleven. Kansas stood alone at number ten with twelve interceptions,
matching Devin Dan Pierce New Mexico. Total, Arizona had thirteen,

(27:33):
good enough for a loan. At eleventh. BYU threw fourteen interceptions.
They tied West Virginia for twelve, and then there was
a three way tie at the bottom Oklahoma State, Utah,
and Houston all through seventeen interceptions last year. So it
would be a five interception improvement for Utah even if

(27:54):
they hit the over at twelve. If you go with
the under, that's a six turnover improvement. That is potentially
season changing. Absolutely, So I know there have been a
lot of people, and I've been saving this conversation.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
There have been a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's the thing they wring their hands about, and that's
what makes him sweaty about Devin Dampierre. I don't know, man,
he doesn't take care of the ball all that well
in the passing game. Twelve interceptions, you would have you
would have given your left eye for only twelve interceptions
thrown by Utah football last year when you actually look
at the numbers. I'm not going to demand that Devin

(28:33):
Danpierre reduces his interceptions this year. I don't even care
if he does. I need him to increase his passing
touchdown production and if he's in that effort, if he
has to be a little bit of a gunslinger and
he still throws twelve. That puts you right in the middle.
And all this Utah offense needs to be in the

(28:54):
passing game is right in the middle of the Big
twelve Conference. The wins above placement on that. We've looked
at the numbers now for a week straight, We've looked
at the numbers in so many different ways, from so
many different angles. If you can get to the middle, realistically,
we're talking about a nine or ten win season, I

(29:18):
think it. I mean that also speaks to just how
good Utah's defense was last season and how good we
expect them to be this season, because they're always good,
right And look, there are some question marks about the
defense that we will address next week. We're going to
dive into the over unders on the defensive side of
the football and we're gonna, you know, hopefully not make
anybody too nervous about that. But today's first over under

(29:42):
eleven and a half interceptions thrown by Utah's offense, and
ostensibly that is Devin dan Pierre over eleven and a
half or under eleven and a half at realoc Sports.
If you want to weigh in on the Twitter poll,
it is just a poll now and then eight seven
seven three five three zero, seven hundred. If you want
to tell me what you think, flesh out your thoughts

(30:02):
a little bit more. I love when you tell me
why you come to the answer that you come to.
All Right, we got to take a quick one here.
We'll switch gears a little bit, talk about the goings
on of the association. Gordia Jays is here in studio
with me for the next hour on ESPN seven hundred
and ninety two one FFM proud part of Utah's ESPN
Radio network.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
He's out.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Let's get the latest on the Utah Jazz with former
Jazz assistant coach Gordy Chiasa. He's forgotten more about the
NBA than any of us will ever know.

Speaker 5 (30:40):
Let's not get crazy.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Come for the hoops talk.

Speaker 5 (30:42):
Stay for his list of the day, My list today.
Here's oc with.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Basketball Saban Gordy Chiasa on The Sean O'Connell Show.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
Welcome back to the Sean O'Connell Show.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
Welcome man, our friend, an NBA guru, Forty Chiaisa, long
time coach in the association. All the great minds we
get to pick about basketball all the time.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Gordy, Welcome back. To the show.

Speaker 5 (31:07):
How are you showing, I'm doing fine, thank you. I'm
looking forward to it to the NFL season and my
beloved forty nine Ers and my other team back east
showing I'm a tortured soul, the New York Jets.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yes, so you and I share an affection for the
San Francisco forty nine Ers, so we will stay positive
on that. I can't give you any positivity about the Jets.

Speaker 5 (31:31):
And yeah, a jetson to be a Jet fan who
is almost like torture Sean for the last fifty years now,
we're not talking like, you know, twenty fourteen, We're talking fifty.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
So yeah, in my lifetime, they've never been great. So yeah,
all right, you were arriving and hearing me talk about
that point I was making with Devin dan Pierre. We're optimistic.
I mean, I'm over the moon about the potential.

Speaker 3 (31:58):
Right.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
And basketball is a different game, but there are plenty
of similarities. Where a quarterback in his receivers, a quarterback
in his offensive line is running backs. You got to
get on the same page with receivers, especially because so
much is associated with timing and with you know, both
of you getting the same read from the defense that

(32:19):
will determine which way the receiver breaks. If the throw
is going to be on time, the QB sometimes has
to have the ball out of his hand before the
break actually happens. That same page thing can lead to
turnovers or not. It can change a touchdown to a turnover,
and vice versa. And it requires time, it requires reps.

(32:41):
And I know that the same is true, or I
assume that the same is true in basketball, and I
thought you would probably have a decent example or two
of you know, even when the chemistry is good, where
it just takes time and it just takes you know,
practice hours or practice reps or whatever to get truly
to where you need to be very much.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
The first thing is those reps are at game speed.
And the second thing is that when you're a smart passer,
in other words, in the NFL, be a quarterback and
college football a QB. But in basketball most times it's
a point guard traditionally, or the guys on perimeter that
make plays for each other. So add to that, you

(33:22):
ask the receiver during as the weeks go on, where
do you like the ball to be caught? Is in
the shooting pocket? Is your right hand is your left hand.
Like just generally speaking, where do you feel more comfortable
when the ball is being placed to you? And has
to emphasize placed and that you get chemistry by talking

(33:42):
with each other as far as off the court, but
on the court you get it by playing the game.
See the problem right now in this generation where teams
dramatically less practice and so there's slippage during this season.
So a lot of times at the beginning of the year,
you're much more crisper as far as your offense. But

(34:04):
as the dog days of after the All Star break,
will say March first, generally speaking, the better teams accelerate
as far as their execution and the lesser teams deteriorate.
And so a lot of it's based on what as
far as on time, on target passes, turnovers that are

(34:25):
self inflicted, and so it has to be by the
players on perimeter that they keep talking to their receivers
emphasize again receive a second football when when you cut
into your baseline cutter and basketball you're a catch receiver
and now your hands your hands above your waist all
the time, and that what you want to do is
be able to catch the ball in the same rhythm

(34:46):
with your footwork. So your footwork and your hands play
in harmony into what you're shooting stroke. So it's critical
you've got to play the game at a high speed.
Then add today, let's point about this is that add
to it by the way you can you can get
bumped on the catch. Getting hit in a sporting event
is perfectly normal. It's normal. So it's your lucky day

(35:08):
when someone you you catch the ball. I call it
a tuxedo where when no one's bothering you. Most times,
the better the defense, the more physicality, and that's where
you're able to catch and be able to use your
hands and also to get free. So chemistry starts in
the locker room, off the court, but accelerated on the

(35:31):
court with quality speed reps.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
We talk all the time in football about that catching
with contact, catching a contested ball the alligator arms when
people go over the middle and they don't want to
reach out because you hear the footsteps coming. Is there
an equivalent to that in NBA basketball where a guy
is just bad when it comes to catching the contested pass.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
Oh, very much. The answered they're they're afraid to what?
Uh Detroit also they're they're concerned about getting hit, but
also they're playing too fast. The words, they're thinking about
what they're doing next before the balls even caught. So
we're always talk like in football, you want to see
the ball through your hands, see the ball through your

(36:13):
hands and then make the correct read. And by the way,
that read is going to be at full speed. That
the question is how can I make the catch in speed,
but make a decision what in slow pause? See slow pause?
So I catch speed speed wise, but I decide in
the slow pause. And generally speaking, you know, the expression,

(36:34):
like for a same quarterback definitely is that the game
slows down when you're more experienced as far as reps.
Just like in basketball and you're a scorer, the game
slows down. So we also in the NBA Finals for
she Jos Alexander, the game slowed down to him. He's
able to have this unbelievable acrobatic game, but still what

(36:55):
playing the control And Jalen Williams, the guy from Santa
Clara is the fourth year player, the same way he did,
the game slowed down. So it's a process. It's always
painful just to make it fatal.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
I want to talk about the return of one of
the beloved Jazz men. George Nyang is back in this
Jazz uniform. And you know, there's we've been talking about
it the last couple of days. I guess the you know,
the mini van, the the reputation of being a great
teammate and all that kind of stuff. Everyone stops short

(37:36):
when you're praising George Nyang of saying like he's actually
also a really good basketball player. Who is George Nyang
as an actual basketball player. Everybody loves him, But on
the floor, what is he.

Speaker 5 (37:46):
He's a knockdown shooter thirty nine point nine from threes
when his feet are set in the corner, sean, you
feel really real good about what that shot in the air.
And so he's a knockdown shooter on a pick and roll,
pick and pop, he's able to make that open jump shot. Defensively,
even though he's a step slow, which is perfectly normal

(38:09):
for most guys in the NBA, but he has he
has an alertness and he wants through the right thing.
So he's a better team defender than the individually, both
on off ball. What he gives the Jazz is a
guy that's he turns twenty nine October twenty eighth of
this year. He's a veteran that has a good personality,

(38:29):
is a knockdown shooter, and the players will listen to him. Economically, Sean,
his contract is only one year and so it's eight
point two million, so it's gonna work out certainly, but
just safe in the narrative after one year, they just
can move him on as far as his contract or

(38:50):
in the trading deadline, very much where a playoff type
team would want him, because there's a finished line on
his contract. So he's an absolutely valuable asset in the
in the short term but also throughout the season because
people like him. How about George and Yang? Now, don't
feel sorry for him, but he was showing. He was

(39:11):
traded three times since the trade deadline, three times already
and twice this summer, so showing the learning point about this.
By the way, do not buy a house. Do not
buy a house, do not buy a condo. Rent rent.
So Georgia, I'm talking to right now as a colleague,
I would rent right now because of your previous the

(39:32):
last year or so. Now again he makes the eight
point two million, You can't feel sorry. I get it. However, Remember,
these people are human beings. They are they have families
and that you know, it's it's traumatic uplifting your family
to move or be away from them for x amount
of time. So it's it's all part of being a
professional player, and the better players understand it and they

(39:55):
grow in it.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
In general, do guys that are in this sort of
journeyman catg gory do they like going back to a
place that they're familiar with or are they you know,
more more looking forward to seeing, you know, a new market,
living in a because George seemed to like Salt Lake
City and he was embraced here and they're respected here

(40:16):
and things like that. I imagine when the call came like, hey,
we're trading you, you're going to the jazz, seems like
you would have had a positive reaction. But you've been
around way more of these trains than I ever will be.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
You know, it's positive. Yeah, because he knows the area,
he knows some of his teammates that we're here, and
he knows the head coach, he knows management. So it's
a much fluid in a memin now. Austin Ange was
there in Boston when he was there, so the guy
that runs the Jazz right now, Austin Inge was George
Nang knows him personally too, as far as being a

(40:49):
form of Celtic so mem now, so GEORGEI Yang went
from Atlanta to Cleveland, Cleveland to Boston, Boston now to
the Jazz in the last year or so, So it's good.
I like George Yang. He bings the Jazz a shooting
threat and just generally speaking, he plays to win.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
What kind of locker room presidence will he be expected
to have with this group of young guys. He's one
of the one of the veterans on this team, but
the more natural leadership role belongs to obvious starters, belongs
to elite level players, belongs to a lowry marketing. Still
for George Nyang, I imagine he can offer some helpful advice

(41:28):
to the young.

Speaker 5 (41:29):
Guys, Yeah, very much. You know young guys would be
Kyle Philipowski, So that's the guy that he's in a
probably mentor and also with I would say even Ace
Belly definitely. So maybe also Jazz have Kyle Anderson there too.
So Kyle Anderson is the same sort of role where
Joji twenty nine I'd mentioned October twenty eighth, Kyle's thirty one.

(41:51):
So these are guys that they still can play. Remember now,
the players respect you and listen to you. Only you
can still play. If you can't play, they don't respect you.
So that's why it's so important that when from day
one in practice, is that you get after the younger
guys and say to them, hey, you might be in
the future, but by the way, I can still play.

(42:11):
But let me help you become a better player early
in your Korea by doing one, two three what I've
learned eight years ago when I was a rookie like you,
like a young fella. So it's all it's important.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Now.

Speaker 5 (42:23):
A question in jazz basketball is who is the leader.
Larry Markin is an absolutely tremendous player, but he's a
quiet personality and that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that.
So the jazz the leader should be should be I'm
pausing for a second, besides the guys he's traded for.

(42:43):
It should be Chiante George and Asayah call you because
they're gonna have the ball in the game and so
they'll be both young people. Are they ready for that challenge?
Let's watch we.

Speaker 3 (42:55):
Got Gorda Chazer here in studio with us.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
We'll take a quick one where we're talking about basketball
right now, but you're probably thinking about golf as the
weekend approaches. If you haven't checked out the Stansbury Park
golf course yet, now is the time to Willa County's
historic golf course. Great course great for a reason, the
combination of challenge pace and.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
For a lot of us this is very important price.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
It really meets the Goldilock zone on all of those.
There's a water trap on almost every hole. The greens
very well kept, they replace the they mix it up
with the whole placement. The layout keeps you focused and
you got to be fired up. It's the perfect course
to go out there with your friends because you're gonna

(43:43):
have like seven awesome holes, and in that seven holes
that you have that are great, you're gonna have in
your foursome. You're gonna have three guys that spray it
into the water and you get to talk a little
bit of trash and then on whole number eight it's
probably your turn to take the medicine. It's the per
fake course to golf with your buddies. There's no long
waits there's no overpriced green fees.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
It's pure golf.

Speaker 2 (44:06):
Eighteen holes are forty five dollars during the week, fifty
dollars on weekends. Right off I eighty out in Tuila County.
Go check out Stansbury Park Golf Course. Stansbury Park dot
gov slash golf course.

Speaker 3 (44:20):
Book your tea time right now.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
That's Stansbury Park dot gov slash golf course.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
All right.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Lots more to discuss with Gordy.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Chiaza, including the the rumblings around the Greek freak Janni
Sante don Kupol. There still seems to be a lot
of folks wondering what his future looks like with Milwaukee.
We'll touch on that next and much more on The
Sean O'Connor Show ESPN seven hundred ninety two one FM.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
You tune to The Sean O'Connell Show for the Murdoch
Chevrolet Studio of ESPN seven hundred and ninety two to
one a half am.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Battle Common show continues with forty years of here in studio.

Speaker 5 (45:13):
Show. I remember sewing. You and I were together the
day that Prince passed away, and I remember you and
I were talking about Prince and yeah, we had a
very deep discussion about Prince the day he passed away.
How long has he even gone?

Speaker 4 (45:29):
Now?

Speaker 5 (45:30):
I want to say, Sean, I'm guessing, all right, ten years,
nine years. I'm guessing nine.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
You are absolutely correct.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Just twenty first, twenty sixteen is when Prince passed away.

Speaker 5 (45:43):
That day we were together.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
Gorty's got a mind like a steel trap for all
of you who probably have figured that out, even obscure
facts like when how long Prince has been gone?

Speaker 5 (45:53):
Well, in nineteen ninety I was written Sewan in nineteen
eighty two. In case you're wondering, I remember, remember it
was a basketball camp with these crazy guys. I leave
it at that, you know, I leave it at that
crazy guys at basketball camp in eighty two, And this
song came on to quote the juke box. What's a
juke box?

Speaker 4 (46:10):
Like?

Speaker 2 (46:11):
What?

Speaker 5 (46:11):
Like, Gordy, what, Gordy what? What are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (46:15):
A good old I love going to a place that
has an old fashioned jukebox.

Speaker 5 (46:18):
So I remember these guys, these crazy guys, putting in
the quarters and playing the song. So that's just my
I think.

Speaker 3 (46:25):
Now.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
It costs like two dollars and fifty cents to request
a song on a jukebox. You got to do a
credit card probably, but yeah, the old school ones are off.

Speaker 5 (46:33):
This is the quarter.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
By the way, if you're not watching on YouTube ESPN
seven hundred Sports, Utah, you're really missing out on the
fashion of Gordaiciza today. He's got an old school like
a very simple but awesome old jazz shirt. It's uh,
it's an embroidered jazz logo in the up on the

(46:58):
kind of the left bread pocket no pocket though, uh,
in a copper thread. It's just awesome. And Gordy, you
told us that that's been in your closet for like
twenty five years.

Speaker 5 (47:09):
Yeah, twenty five years. Had I found it? Twenty five years.
I have a lot of emphasized junk in my closet.
And remember showing you know about junk, one persure junk
someone else's treasure. In case you're just saying, Sean.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
Well, if you ever wanted to, you could, you could
probably sell off a lot of your vintage jazz gear
for a pretty penny, because uh, that's what the that's
what the young hipsters are.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Into these days. They love the vintage stuff.

Speaker 5 (47:33):
You know, we all do. No answer, you can.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Take it off your hands, Gordy. If you if you
need someone, they're not allowed to steal Gordy's shirt.

Speaker 5 (47:41):
Really, I didn't realize that I'm such a great of
fashion statement. People laughing.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
It's a style icon, Gordon she is.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
I didn't realize that we were talking during the break
about what I talked about going into the break. You hotis,
I did it gooootball shams shamps. Randy keeps saying like,
hey guys, we don't know what his future is going
to be. Uh, And your thought on that was, well,
share your thought on the uncertainty around the Greek Freaks future.

Speaker 5 (48:08):
Just play. My thing about just play, don't worry about
anything else. That you're an elite talent that's fell short
in the playoffs, even though back in twenty twenty one
you were world champions. However, in professional sports is a
short memory. What have you done for us recently? And
recently now is four years already, and so if I

(48:29):
was counseling him thoroughly, I would just say just play,
and that his contract is right in place. He makes
this year fifty four point one million twenty six, twenty seven,
fifty eight point four million twenty seven, twenty eight fifty
two point seven million. So what is the problem here
that they franchised the books, they've invested in you as

(48:52):
a once in a lifetime generational talent, which you are.
But help your team get past the first round which
has been knocked out out by the Pacers of ron Glue.
Showing back to back seasons. They have a good roster.
It's somewhat aging, but they feel that their future is
uh is the present tense right now, and so they're
all in as far as trying to evance, but so

(49:15):
they've got to uh. Jannis has got he's in, he's
right now, He's in the European Championships. As far as
you call your basket, he's over increased right now. And
sometimes when you're native country, you let it all hang
down your hair.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Are you if you're on a coaching staff, are you
concerned about like those like a euro basket stint for
someone like Giannis?

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (49:36):
Yeah, very much, Yeah, yes you are. Is that besides
talking to the European media, is that you always hesitant.
You have to have to play play for their national team.
You have to, so you can't stop that minus minus
the guy who was injured beforehand, so, but you always
are very hesitant about it because you're you're the your

(49:59):
franchise is is the main focal point for that player,
even though he loves his native country. So again in
Jazz bask we used to have Carolinko who obviously he
loved the Mother of Russia and he played for their
team all the time. And so and then Larry markin
and present tents plays with Finland and the European they
called the EuroBaskets. He's playing in Finland as far as

(50:19):
against other European teams, so it's a big thing. There's
twenty four teams that are in Europe right now that
are playing for the championship. It takes about three and
a half weeks and then they're the champion of Europe.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
My favorite thing is when a player, a European player,
gets called away to do the mandatory military service that
exists for young men in a lot of those countries. Yes,
and you hear about some professional athlete making forty million
dollars a year and he's got to go do his
national guard duty or whatever.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
I love that. I loved those stories.

Speaker 5 (50:47):
Well that was Larry markin two years ago with Finland.
He had he was he served in the military, and
then the Israeli players where it's mandatory both men and women,
serving there in israel military suburbs for two years. Usually speaking,
it's when you're generally speaking, most times it's twenty years old.
Most times. Okay, there you.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
Go, Johnson, the former ut Jonson in the same thing,
James whispering. I don't know if you put that on
air or not. No, no, so I was. I don't
know if he's done his military service yet. Sorry, I
was just you were talking about the Finnish national team,
Larry Markinen, I thought we should shout out former running
you Mickey Johnson is on that Finnish national team as well.

Speaker 5 (51:32):
Sure, and that's it's all part of it. So that's
their country. America is their second country, and so that
when they with they're with they're with their some of
their their teammates growing up as far as in European
Under fourteen championships, do you're under seventeen, you're under twenty championships. Now,
these guys are in the NBA or other professional sports,

(51:53):
they unite in their country to represent them, showing the
most intense game ever that I've heard about. It including
you know, Jazz Bulls. Nineteen ninety eight in flag Day
was when Lithuania for the first time played against Russia
when Russia, when Lithuania was a Baltic was part of
Russia in nineteen the early nineteen nineties, they played Russia

(52:18):
for the bronze medal in the Olympics and it was
an overtime game, and literally the whole Lithuanian population literally
watched that game because they had so much pride. When
Lithuania beat Russia for the bronze medal game in the
nineteen ninety two Championships, it was an overtime matter of fact,

(52:39):
so it was absolutely incredible. People tell me it was
the most intense game they've ever seen ever in a game.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
It's hard to contextualize European fandom when I don't know,
when you haven't been to a live event in Europe
or whatever. The sports fans there, I don't know if
it's because of the pregaming, I don't know what it is,
but sports fans in Europe we I'm a very patriotic person,

(53:10):
but they do it better.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
In a lot of cases.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
They're just so rabid about even some obscure sports it's
pretty awesome going to sporting events in Europe.

Speaker 5 (53:18):
And that's why it's so part in the Olympics that
we saw last year. How those sports the other quote,
the other sports that really aren't in the Americans like
lexicon as far as you know, these different sports, but
in Europe it's absolutely huge other parts of the world,
and that's why it's so important to respect these people
are world class athletes. And we're going to see you

(53:39):
in twenty twenty eight in la which is becoming out
party of a lot of a lot of different people.
I can't wait for. I know it's a long time
off as far as the ebbs and flow of sports,
but Sean, speaking of the ebbs and flows, I want
to discuss and get your opinion about some of these
things as far as why good teams stop whin Yeah,

(54:01):
why good chief stop winning?

Speaker 3 (54:02):
I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Say that for this upcoming segment because Gordy came in
and he said, listen, let's have this discussion on the
show today. And we've got twenty eight minutes left with Gordy,
so we're gonna flesh this out.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Why do good teams stop winning?

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yes, we'll focus on the NBA side of it, But
of course you can extrapolate it to well, I don't know,
maybe even you tell football these last couple of seasons.
We'll get into it on the Sean O'Connell show. It's
ESPN seven hundred ninety to one FM, proud part of
Utah's ESPN Radio network.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
You were listening to the O'Connell show for the Murdock
hundred studio of ESPN seven.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
Welcome to hour number two on the Sean O'Connell Show.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
We've got Gordon Chaza for another twenty five ish minutes here,
and he came into the studio with something on his
mind today. Why do good teams stop winning? The layers
to this onion can go deeper and deeper, but let's
start with where you want to start, Gordy, Why do
good teams in the NBA stop winning.

Speaker 5 (55:16):
Marginal college drafts? So the first thing is that usually
back to back years the draft was marginal, and so
that's the first thing. So you didn't get young guys
into your organization that we're able to win. The second
thing is that you didn't retain the younger free agents.

(55:37):
So you have some free agents that are on your
team that are twenty something years old, say twenty four
to twenty five, you didn't retain some of them. A
erratic player development where you draft these young guys. They're
underskilled even though they're ultra athletic, but their skill level
is what subpar and it was. It's very erratic on it.

(56:02):
You signed free agents, so the acquisition of free agents
are bad fit. They're a bad fit. Next one the
older veterans lose their work ethic. So the guy again
and slay basketball. The players roughly around give a take
thirty three years old, and he loses his work ethic

(56:24):
where he's stolen the team under contract but not the same.
Let's bust it out in practice. Let me work on
my skills, let me work on the physical part of it,
and the mental and nutritional eating correctly. There's a slippage
on it.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
How often is that related to a contract? We talk
about it in football all the time, and there's plenty
of examples where a guy gets paid and that becomes
a demotivating factor rather than the thing that pushes them
to the next level, which of course is what the
team hopes for. Or when you give someone this sixty

(57:02):
million seventy million, one hundred million dollar contract and then
he just shows up to the next training camp out
of shape, et cetera. The numbers in the NBA are
more inflated than anywhere else. How often is that lack
of commitment that you're talking about related to a contract?

Speaker 5 (57:20):
Often? Yeah, off, The answer is absolutely. Often it's case
by a case a lot. It's based on your personality
and your individual pride that when you're really a person
with character, when someone gives us something, you want to
pay them back more so by performing even more better,
even more diligent about it, versus the other direction, whereas

(57:44):
a lack of character where I get paid now and
now I can slack off. And it happens in every sport,
especially in basketball, that your point is well taken. The
numbers are so inflated. Again, I took it like sixty
million dollars contracts like it's like it's like it's every day,
which it is, a matter of fact, is every day.

(58:04):
So when I say that, I cringe. My voice is cringing.
So you described there a guy that's twenty eight, twenty
nine years old. He retired on his teammates without telling
them that he's still he retired. What an awful feeling
that your teammates are playing to win and you're still
you're you're playing to watch skate a lawn. Next part

(58:25):
about that is management and head coaches. There's internal feuding
over the roster. So the head coach and management is
feuding internally, not publicly, but internally where the management wants
to have this guy on the team or without saying it,

(58:46):
I think you should play this guy more minutes, and
the head coach doesn't agree with that. So there's feuding.
So you know expression in Layman's term. Oh, by the way,
they're not on the same page. That's what happens. Next
one the team why they're losing is that they did
lack of bench strength, where the management didn't give enough

(59:10):
players as far as winning bench players, or the coach
didn't play at the unit as a bench. We saw
that in the NBA right now two months ago with
Tom Thibodeaux. This five starters played literally almost the whole game,
and there was a lack of bench for Nickoboker, so
they fell slightly short, much.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
To the chagrin of Utah fans because Delon Wright was
on that bench and a lot of us thought that
he could help that team.

Speaker 5 (59:36):
Add to that, and so Delon Right when Gellen Brunson
was hurt with his spran ekle, he played wonderful for
the hit. He had an eight game stretch where he
played twenty minutes a game. He was really good, and
so Delon Wright, to Shawn's point, is that he's a
freegent right now. If I'm a good team in the NBA,
I want Dlon Right on my group as a second

(59:57):
unit defensive playmaker off the bench, causing having make enough
open jump shots on it just too quickly. The last
point about this is the number eight would be court
tilt on the roster. There's too many extreme offensive minded
players with way too many few two way players both

(01:00:18):
offense and defense, and so that's why good teams fall apart.
It could be only five of these reasons. It could
be too top heavy, it could be why many many reasons,
but generally speaking, these are the reasons why most times
when teams are good and they don't win, we call
it court tilt. The court is tilted on one direction

(01:00:40):
where it's too much offense or too much defense. We
saw the Thunder this past year. Their number one team
in defense in the NBA, and by the way, what
they're in the top five offensively. That's why, that's why
they're champions, and that's why the Pacers also, So think
about the Pacers. They overachieved this and the opposite the
Pacers have is that most of those guys on the

(01:01:01):
Pacer team, they're direct opposite because the pieces fit. They
play as a unit, they have tremendous bench strength right now,
play development program, they retain the younger free agents, et cetera.
You fill the blanks in how about the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Well, in the NFL, the points that you were making
as I'm listening to that, you know, point after point
after point, it's they're all roster points. It is all
And every coach tells you it's not x's and o's,
it's Jimmy's and Joe's. But good teams don't stop winning
because everyone else figures out their scheme. Good teams don't

(01:01:40):
stop winning because suddenly the rest of the league catches
up to them on the x's and o's. It's a
roster construction thing. How often can you see it coming, Gordy,
Because you've been around the game for a long time,
and when you see some of these moves and you'll
be like, oh, well that actually that falls into point
number X whatever. That that's a guy who's too offensively focused.

(01:02:03):
They've already got too many offensively focused guys. Now that's
gonna be a court tilt problem for this team, because
I imagine you see it coming before the rest of
us too.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
I do.

Speaker 5 (01:02:12):
And that's why it's so important to try to have
a balanced roster. That again, your main guys have to
be two way players, especially in the playoff's minimum in
the fourth quarter. So to philosophically is that are our
three best players on our team better than the other

(01:02:35):
three best players on the opposing as rivals in a
playoff game, especially in the fourth quarter in games of five, six,
and seven, And usually speaking, when your team has those
three better players that play as a playoff both sides
of the ball, the rest of the other players on
the court, they're going to overachieve. And as just described

(01:02:57):
again the thunder I describe the Pacers, I described described
all the teams. The Denver Nuggets, who are the Nuggets.
They overachieved this year. They have court sewan. The Nuggets
have court tilt, but Yokis is so brilliant as far
the way he plays is that he's able to focus

(01:03:18):
on the court where it's not as dramatic, even though
it should be. So think about the think about the
the Denver Nuggets. They have no bench, no bench yet
yet they took sewn, they took the thunder World champions
the seven games.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
And they had already fired their head coach.

Speaker 5 (01:03:38):
That's correct, right, So just think of it. And so
this is where there's always one outlier.

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
So okay, I'm just thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
Okay, so the Denver my next question to you is
going to be based on what we just talked about.
What's a good team that's gonna stop winning? And you okay,
that's a team with court tilt problems, that's a team
with the front office slash coaching, you know, discords that's they.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Check at least a couple of those boxes.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Are the Nuggets a team a good team that's gonna
stop winning?

Speaker 5 (01:04:10):
The answer is they did last year, but this year
they corrected it, so to their credit, right now, So then,
so the what they did they added, They edited uh
Tim Hardaway, junior offensive minded off the bench. They added
Bruce Brown, a two way player, off the bench. So
they got they added Cam Johnson, an open shooter and

(01:04:30):
replaced it instead of Michael Porter, who's one dimensional. And
then they added Valachunis, who's a who's a Lithuanian bully.
And so what they did the Nuggets that their credit.
They absolutely improved their bench and so it gave it
gives now the devn Nuggets a fighting chance to go

(01:04:51):
deeper in the playoffs, because again it's awful feeling. You
don't want to waste somebody that's a once in a
lifetime player nar Nikolai Jokic with the ross that's gonna
fall short. So the Nuggets, to their credit management group,
they did a wonderful job with their team.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
So when we talk about teams you know on the rise,
you think of what Orlando looks like right now, you
think of San Antonio. The Jazz want to be in
that category sooner than later, although it's probably gonna take
a little bit of time for any team on the
rise to break through. It means that a decent team
at least or a good team has to stop winning,

(01:05:31):
has to fall. If you're gonna leap frog somebody, it
means you gotta be better but they probably also have
to be worse. So of last year's NBA playoff teams
or the teams that you considered to be a good team,
who is most at risk for stopping on the positive momentum,
who's gonna stop winning?

Speaker 5 (01:05:48):
Gordy, then the Bucks and the Knicks and the Celts
cause of injuries. Okay, those three right there in the East.
In the West, it would be the Grizzlies, the Sons,

(01:06:15):
and the Kings. Yeah, so we'll see, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
But you could see like okay, so okay, see Houston, LA, Denver,
other La, even the Timberwolves. They're gonna be able to
sustain this for a little while.

Speaker 5 (01:06:31):
Yes they are. Yeah, the answer is yes, yes they
are because they have they have good players that are
in their prime. And most of those teams have a
have a point guard that can steady the ship during
the game. And as I always talk about this, even
though now in this generation is this there's no more

(01:06:52):
quote old school point guards minus Chris Paul type guys.
But you have to have a point guard in a
game in the fourth quarter that steadies the steadies the
group right now and that they are very conscious see
Sean point guard isn't a position, it's a mentality. It's

(01:07:13):
a mentality where my floormate is struggling during a game.
I'm the point guard of our group, whether it's starter
or the backup point guard. How can I help this
guy get some shots to get himself going because he's
ultra talented, he's having mental amnesia right now. He's he's
he has an element of a doubt, even though he's

(01:07:35):
fearless as a player, but it's a doubt right now
the defense is overwhelming him. How can I get in
ball mentioned earlier about receiving on time, on target. So
every good team I mentioned that that's going to be
champions has a has a point guard or a guard
on perimeter that that is wants to get his teammates involved.

(01:08:01):
So it's it's that's why people say, well the NBA,
it's position list until what in a playoff game in
the fourth quarter. See again, people say things. Just do
you just say it out loud? Okay, that's true, Yeah,
that's true. No it's not. That's not true. In the
fourth quarter, I can assure it. And sometimes the point
guard is a big guy, so the Denver it's Jokic. Sure,

(01:08:24):
it's joked, it's Lebron A lot of times it's a
so it's it does. It's not always a smaller guy.
But you have to have somebody that is willing to
get someone else a shot because they know that this
is dynamics, this is chemistry.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
How much control does a coaching staff have in today's
NBA on things like that, because you do have to
contend sometimes or hopefully you're working in conjunction with your
front office, with the more seasoned leadership on your team.
Some of those guys now have decision making power almost

(01:09:02):
at the team and roster level, right like Lebron James
runs every organization, he's a part of. It would seem
so for a coaching staff, how much control do you
have over what we're just talking about with, you know,
the team chemistry, the willingness of a particular player to

(01:09:23):
accept the role, especially an important role, when maybe that's
not what they envision themselves as as a player. The
power imbalance that happens in college sports is starting to
even out. It's always been less significant in professional basketball.
I would make the argument that in the NBA, the

(01:09:44):
power and balance favors the players, the superstar players, in
a lot of cases where it makes it incredibly challenging
for coaches. But again, you have been in these rooms
during these discussions. You have played this role sometimes with
players who have massive, massive ego. So what level of
control does the coaching staff have.

Speaker 5 (01:10:07):
A whole bunch with the winning teams the lesser teams
is dramatic, It's dramatically lower and that's why the teams win.
And so what you want to do is that to
win in the NBA, to win in the NFL, you
have to have let the star players be stars because
they have an elite talent. But within that, you've got

(01:10:28):
to get the star players to play as a unit.
So in basketball, we always talk about we want to
showcase your unbelievable individual skills. But let's do this after
watch ball moving first, Let's do it off the screening action.
Let's get your ball. Let's get the ball to you
in space on time on the second side of the
floor versus what the top of the circle where the

(01:10:49):
defense can stare right now at you and it's gonna
limit you. And then most times Giannis type people will
take an all balanced jump shot because the defense now
to help defense is locked in and when the shots missed,
a lot of times they blame your teammates to get
it into my way. And so the way we teach
the guys is trust us that we'll get the ball
to your in time on target, usually on the second

(01:11:11):
side of the floor after ball movement. So is that
the better coaches in the NBA, they they have discipline
and discipline is everything. And I don't mean crazy discipline.
I mean where you use bad words every single minute
of practice. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying is
that that there's an element of high, element of trust

(01:11:32):
and that the discipline that we're playing as a unit.
Usually speaking sean, when the ball moves, the scoreboard moves,
when the ball sticks, the scoreboard sticks. It sounds so simple, elementary,
but does it get cloudy during your game. And that's
why it's so important to play as a unit.

Speaker 3 (01:11:50):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:11:51):
Management often has of nesia, but they don't think like that,
and so they wanted to only have the best talent
on the court. And so a lot of times you
ever have you've been in situation shown where a team
is ultra talented but the underperformed, usually speaking, that's when
they have it's a court tilt and at the star
players are one dimensional and they don't share the ball

(01:12:14):
with their teammates and that's why they aren't as successful
based on their talent.

Speaker 3 (01:12:21):
I mean, we've seen this at every level of sport.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
We've seen this as we get ready for college football season,
where teams will they'll just accumulate an insane amount of
talent and now you have to pay for it, so
they'll throw a bunch of money at that, but for
whatever reason, it doesn't translate into wins, and then coaches
get blamed for it, and a lot of it. I mean,
I guess it is on the coaches to make sure

(01:12:45):
team chemistry ends up working out, but gosh, easier said than.

Speaker 5 (01:12:48):
Done very much. So generally speaking, every sport is that
the attention to detail. So seawan and football, the better
teams that go to deepen the playoffs, they have very
few pre snap penalties. Sure, that's why they win. They're
able to execute under pressure. I'm simplifying it. In basketball,
by the way, that's a foul. So to put a

(01:13:08):
team into the penalty left in the quarter at the
nine minute and five second mark of a quarter, a
team shooting a penalty because we had five bizarre fouls
that happened in practice probably a thousand times. And that's
when you have to correct it either very very quickly,
either very softly or unfortunately sometimes loudly because the players

(01:13:32):
they're not listening. I call that invisible ear muffs. That
they're yesing you to death, but they're not listening. And
that's when you have to And that's why again, the
better teams they win because they don't beat themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:13:46):
And I gonna ask you this before we get to
your list. Crazy story that it's going to end up
going to trial, I guess, but Miami Heat security guard
stole like three four hundred game warn jerseys out of

(01:14:09):
out of the locker room, sold them to online brokers
for a total of two million dollars over a three
year period, and he got caught.

Speaker 3 (01:14:18):
He got busted.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
By the way, he's a retired police officer, which is
just he was a twenty five year retired veteran of
the Miami Police Department who ended up working for Miami
Heat Security and actually NBA Security for a short time.
He sold one hundred of the things that he stole.
They think that he could have stolen up to about

(01:14:39):
four hundred different things. Oh yeah, he sold one hundred
items he had already. They seized another three hundred stolen
game warn jerseys and other valuable memorabilia from his residence
back in April. Were you did you ever encounter this

(01:15:00):
in your years in the NBA where somebody, you know,
stuff started disappearing from the locker room.

Speaker 5 (01:15:04):
Yes, I have, Yes, I've seen it. Yes, I've seen it. Yes.
And the reason why is that usually at the equipment
manager there's only there's only like three or four people
have that magical key. I call it the equipment room.
And unfortunately that this person Maan the heat had that
one of them had security had that key. And it's
not one thing, it's a lot of things. Remember, Sean,

(01:15:28):
the players sometimes get like fifty pairs of sneakers delivered
by Adidas or by Nike, a new balance times. You know,
all these players, and it goes into a uh, into
a secure room that only had only people have a
We'll say again, three or four people have access to
that room. But who's to say that those people hopefull

(01:15:49):
they're ethically you hope they are, but this person was not.
So it does happen, unfortunately, and then it's so suddenly,
it's so suddenly online or in some auction house, and
that's when he gets crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:16:01):
Yeah, this guy, by the way, not a great businessman,
all right, because while unethical to say the least, he
also the best example in the article here, he sold
a game Warn Lebron Jersey, NBA Finals Jersey. He sold
it for about one hundred grand and that thing ended
up selling for three point seven million dollars. So he's

(01:16:25):
not only is he a thief, he's kind of a
bad businessman. He's not even getting near the value of
these things. At least if you're gonna steal from Lebron
a NBA Finals game Warn Jersey, don't unload it at
a discount. Don't be fencing that thing to some rando
for you know, a fraction of what it's worth.

Speaker 5 (01:16:44):
I'm saddened bite because again it's in the NBA. This
is just so few people in the locker room. It's
only there's only fifteen players and the coaches and the
trainers being athletic trainers and some of the other personnel,
so truly a small group. And that's why it's so
disturbing that this person able to do that. But speaking

(01:17:05):
of disturbing shown, this is our last list of this
NBA season and it has a Utah jazz flavor and
has a flavor also shown leaning towards you. Yes, John O'Connell, Gordy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
Knows what what kind of not NBA what kind of
basketball player I was in my well, very undecorated basketball career.

Speaker 5 (01:17:27):
Well, you told me this over the last year or so.
Is this list today is a top ten NBA leaders
in most technical fouls accumulated, most technical fouls accumulated. The
common traits are being physical, emotional, you're skilled, your competitive

(01:17:49):
all right, and you have longevity because it's based on
a Korea. Here we go. Number ten, most technical fouls.
Kevin gone In played twenty one years in the NBA.
One hundred and seventy two technical fouls. Nast guy, and
he's in Hall of Fame. Number nine. Dwight Howard played
in the NBA for eighteen years. Hall of Famer, one

(01:18:10):
seventy eight technical fouls. Anthony Mason played in the NBA
for thirteen years, one hundred and ninety two technical fouls.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
It's a lot in thirteen years.

Speaker 5 (01:18:20):
Number seven, he's playing right now. He's a free agent.
You either either love him or dislike him. Russell Westbrook
has played in the NBA for seventeen years. Future Hall
of Famer has one hundred and ninety eight technical fouls
number six. He was born and raised in Germany. He
played for twenty one years for the Dallas Mavericks. He's

(01:18:40):
in the Hall of Fame. Dirk Nowitzki accumulated one hundred
and ninety nine technical fouls Number five nickname was the
worm played. He's played in the NBA for fourteen season
in the Hall of Fame. Dennis Shrobin accumulated two hundred
and twelve technical fouls. Number four nickname was the glove.
Played in the NBA for seventeen season. Hall of Famer

(01:19:04):
Technical Fouls AMSSED two and fifty number three. This person
is even interesting, even more so than a lot of people.
Rashad Rashid Wallas played in the NBA for sixteen years,
including an NBA record of the most technical fouls ever
in a single season in the two thousand, two thousand

(01:19:28):
and one NBA season with Portland, where he committed forty
one technical fouls. It's the most ever in the NBA.
With the forty one added to it. He accumulated three
hundred and seventeen technical fouls, third all time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Is he the reason why they started to institute suspensions
and fines for an accumulation of technical fouls?

Speaker 5 (01:19:50):
That is correct?

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
The answer is yes, you change the rules of your
league by too many technical fouls.

Speaker 5 (01:19:58):
I love that Number two all Charles Barkley played in
the NBA for sixteen season, Hall of Famer, had three
hundred and twenty nine technical fouls, and number one. I
coached this guy for sixteen years. I saw most of
these technical fouls. Remember the criteria physical, emotional, skilled, competitive longevity.

(01:20:21):
Cal Malone played in them for nineteen years. Hall of
Famer call accumulated three hundred and thirty two technical fouls.
After this, Jerry Sloan, the Jazz Trusted Leader, my colleague,
has the NBA record for most ever also technical fouls
as a head coach. So I've been involved with both

(01:20:42):
people as a player and head coach technical fouls. Lastly,
the last point about this, Let's go the other side,
showing the flip side of it, the other extreme. Mike
Colley has never been assessed a game technical foul in
his eighteen year old Korea through the twenty four to
twenty five seasons.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
Zero zero.

Speaker 5 (01:21:03):
That's one thousand, one seventy two games total minutes played,
thirty six thousand, five ninety seven has Michael Conley has
never had a technical foul. That's the opposite of the spectrum.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
Okay, what we need James, all right, you're the boss
around here. Not during the show, but as soon as
the show is over, when you put your boss hat
back on. We need to get Karl Malone and Mike
Conley doing some kind of podcast. It like a good
guy bad guy kind of thing. Good cop, bad cop.
You're talking about a guy with none and the all

(01:21:39):
time leader, both of them, who have played in a
jazz uniform.

Speaker 3 (01:21:44):
That's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
That's playing that long without getting a single one is
far more rare and impressive than being the guy who
obviously had the most.

Speaker 5 (01:21:54):
And Mike Cones was he's a good player. Yeah, he's
got a good player.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
It's not like you're said, dude, who's been on the
bench and you haven't been on the floor and you
haven't been elbowed and you haven't been like the fact
that he has never been reactive in his NBA career
to the point of being assessed a technical foul. He
must meditate a lot or something. That is Banana's to me,
because I'm sure we could find situations where Mike Conley

(01:22:22):
got fouled hard or guys were talking trash man. That
is insane Mike Conley. The next time we talk to him,
the discussion is going to be all about that. Thank
you for that factoid, Gordy.

Speaker 5 (01:22:35):
So Sean, this list was a flavor Utah jazz, but
it was getting all towards towards someone like yourself. Of
your physicality, emotionalism, skill, competitiveness, and longevity.

Speaker 2 (01:22:49):
Three of those things. I don't have two of them.
I do no longevity in the basketball world for sure. Gordy,
you're the man.

Speaker 5 (01:22:58):
Thanks showing peace out.

Speaker 3 (01:23:00):
Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:01):
Gordy will be back with us as we approach basketball season.
We've leaned so heavily on him for the last nine
months and we'll give him a little rest.

Speaker 3 (01:23:09):
But hopefully he's off to Tahiti or something.

Speaker 2 (01:23:12):
You got any plans, Gordy, by the way, you're gonna
you're gonna take any real vacation.

Speaker 5 (01:23:16):
Yes, I'm going back to NYC, New York City, all
right on on Tuesday. Nice where visiting my crazy relatives.
I need a vacation from my vacation. If you get
my drift.

Speaker 3 (01:23:26):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:23:27):
The nice thing is if you're in New York at
you know those airports, you can fly to anywhere in
the world from there, So if you really have to
hop on something and escape, you can't. That's Gordy Chias,
our resident NBA guru, Love Gordy Chias, Thank you, sir.
And the Detroit Lions have announced a new rule. It's
only them that are gonna be playing by this rule,
and it's called the Huts Rule. I'll explain what it

(01:23:49):
is for you next on The Sean O'Connell Show ESPN
seven ninety two one FM.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Sean O'Connell's show, You were home of the best Inside
of your Utes. Let's get back to OC from the
Murder Chevrolet Studio of ESPN seven and ninety one AM.

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
Welcome back to the Sean O'Connell Show on ESPN seven
hundred the noon hour. Our Big twelve coverage is brought
to you by Mountainland Supply. Visit mountland supply dot com.
Since we got some Kyle Whittingham camp Kyle sound. I
want to play for you, but I want to tell
you first. Maybe we'll do that in the next segment,

(01:24:45):
because I want to tell you about this hutch rule
that I just read about. I remember mostly in high school.
I would be very enamored with these stories. And I
don't know if you've read them heard them, but it
feels like every I don't know, every team, every program
has some kind of story about a guy who's just

(01:25:07):
so he's so much different than his peers that you
have to adjust things.

Speaker 4 (01:25:12):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
We've just talked about with Gordy Chase at how the
NBA had to institute like some special rules because of
Rashid Wallace getting so many dang technicals in a single season.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
Well, the Detroit.

Speaker 2 (01:25:22):
Lions are apparently growing the already Paul Bunyan reputation of
Aiden Hutchinson by instituting something they call the Huts rule
at their practice.

Speaker 3 (01:25:33):
Now, this isn't NFL practice.

Speaker 2 (01:25:37):
These are the best players in the world and this
is a team now that has excellent play on their
offensive line, I mean, one of the top five offensive
lines in professional football. Aiden Hutchinson apparently is still so
disruptive now that he's back off his surgery, back off

(01:25:58):
his injury, that they've instituted the hutch rule, meaning that
if he is the guy who makes the play on
the dropback, they do not blow the whistle. That's how
often allegedly Aiden Hutchinson is making plays at practice that
if he's the guy who tags off on the quarterback,
which would institute a whistle blow, they just let the

(01:26:20):
play keep running, otherwise it would be too disruptive in practice.
I remember hearing songs about like songs. I remember hearing
stories about how in Damokung Su at Nebraska just wasn't
allowed to practice against his team basically because he would
dominate everyone so bad that the offense couldn't get any reps.

(01:26:41):
In Haloti Nata, there were stories about Haloti in high
school and in college, he and they had a guy
named Igor Olshansky. At the time, they were like the
two strongest players in college football, and so during team
periods they would just have to like jog around. I
don't not corroborate all these stories, but these are just

(01:27:02):
like the legends that come out of programs about certain players.
And to have this happening for a young player in
the NFL, where his own team is admitting, like, yeah,
if he's the guy that disrupts practice, we just let
it keep going because he does it so often. When
he broke his leg last year and ended his season,
he had seven and a half more quarterback hurries than

(01:27:25):
anyone else in the NFL. It was still early in
the year where they were five games in and he
was on this pace to be freakishly productive. And now
apparently he's backing better than ever, so much so that
they've changed the practice rules in Detroit and they won't
blow the whistle. If Aiden Hutchinson is the guy making

(01:27:45):
the play, that's that's incredible and so legendary. By the way,
those other stories you brought up that they made songs
of them, Yes, they wrote song.

Speaker 3 (01:27:56):
They would sing the songs of dominance.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
That's very gay thrones of them to be for centuries,
I've heard songs of of the dominance of Honestly, there
probably are some out there. There's probably someone who wrote
a song about it. But man, here's the thing, Aiden

(01:28:20):
Hutchinson must be such a nice human being, because if
this is what was going on around me with I'm
already pretty insufferable ego wise. Can you imagine you don't
have to if your NFL team is out there publicly
admitting to people that you're so much better than everyone
on the NFL team, that like, yeah, man, we just

(01:28:44):
have to we just have to like make new rules
for this guy. You know how insufferable I would be.
And he's like, that's right, you do. Yeah, that's insane
that I'm that guy anyway, excited to see what he
can do. I'm not a Detroit Lions fan. I'm not
a Michigan Wolvere. Thank goodness. He's an interesting uh, he's

(01:29:04):
an interesting test case. Yeah, in the world of college
football into the NFL. This is like he's the hometown dude.
This is where he wanted to play. This is close
to where he attended college, this is close to where
he grew up. It's like he's a Michigan dude and
he's playing for the Detroit Lions. And apparently he's playing

(01:29:25):
so well in camp for the Detroit Lions that they're
just like, all right, dude, stop messing up practice.

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
Stop We're we're trying to get reps in.

Speaker 2 (01:29:35):
This is kind of how it was when this kind
of was when I was on the Utah football team.
When I was playing Scout team, I was so dominant
on Scout Team that they were just like, hey, dude,
stop making so many plays.

Speaker 3 (01:29:47):
You weren't.

Speaker 2 (01:29:48):
You weren't the one. You weren't the one getting destroyed.
You were the one destroying people on Scout team. Urban
was like, hey, dude, we get it, Okay, you're the
best player on the team.

Speaker 3 (01:30:00):
Just stop and that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:01):
So I it might have been it might have been
a slightly different tone than what they have with hutch
It's like it's like, hey, walk on, I stop hitting
the good players.

Speaker 3 (01:30:11):
I see.

Speaker 2 (01:30:12):
I dumbed it down so much that I never played
like I went too far. Aiden Hutchinson, that you run
the risk, Okay, if you cool it off too much,
then you're gonna get benched to the point where you
never see the field, Aid. And I'm just warning you exactly, okay,
because that's what happened to me. Seen it happen, Seen
it happen. Uh Yeah, it'll be very interesting to see,

(01:30:34):
you know. Pointing this to the Lions side of things
as a team, very interesting to see if they have
a healthy Aiden Hutchinson all year long and the team
plays as well as they did the last couple of years,
certainly last year without him, you know just how far
they can go, because they were looked at as a

(01:30:56):
super Bowl team going into the playoffs last year, even
though they didn't have they didn't excuse me, they didn't
have a healthy Aiden Hutchinson and they end up getting
destroyed by the by Washington in the divisional round. You
would think that having Aiden Hutchinson there makes that game
much different. So it'll be interesting to see if they

(01:31:18):
really can live up to the super Bowl potential with
their arguably their best player on the field, hopefully for
the whole season. I love watching the Lions.

Speaker 3 (01:31:26):
I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
I'm not a Lions fan, but they're they're really fun
to watch and their story because they've just they've just
really never been good, you know, consistently until now. It's
hard to ignore. It's hard to root against a franchise
like that who finally has some sustained excellence to root.

(01:31:47):
It's hard to root for them not to break through
and fulfill some potential super Bowl potential. We'll see, all right,
we got Ari Tempkin coming on in about fifteen minutes.
We're gonna take a quick one here. We've got sound
from yesterday's UTAH Media availability that we want to play
for you. It's a Sean O'Connell show on ESPN seven

(01:32:10):
hundred ninety TWOEFM proud part of Utah's ESPN Radio network.

Speaker 5 (01:32:15):
Another one. That's another one.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
As you were listening to a Sean O'Connell show, your
source for the best utes football copyreach, here's OC from
the Murdoch Hyundai studio of ESPN seven hundred at ninety
two to one a f M.

Speaker 3 (01:32:34):
All Right, I lied to you, and I am very
sorry about that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:37):
We're gonna We're gonna save the Camp Kyle sound until
about one thirty on the show today after our conversation
with Big twelve insider Ari Tempkin. Right now, it's time
for a PGA Tour leaderboard update from the FedEx Saint
Jude Championship, first leg of the FedEx Cup Playoffs. This
update is brought to you by You went to Golf.
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(01:32:58):
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James Peterson, what's going on at the FedEx Sink Jude Championship.
Akshay Batia is your leader at eight under right now,

(01:33:21):
and most of the guys have finished their opening round.
By the way, most of the guys at the top
of the leader board anyway. Harry Hall tied for second
along with Justin Rose at six under. Let's see some
of the other names we got here in the top ten.
Maverick McNeely tied for fourth at four under. Wyndham Clark

(01:33:45):
among a bunch of guys tied for six at three under.
That rounds out your top ten. I'm gonna see our
guy Tony Fenow how well he's doing. He's near the
beginning of his opening round. He's through two holes even
par so uh, long ways to go for him the
rest of this opening round. There eight shots off the lead,

(01:34:08):
but still plenty of time to make up for it.
That's your PG Tour leaderboard update from the Saint Jude
Championship for selgl of the FedEx Cup playoffs.

Speaker 3 (01:34:19):
Brought to you by you Into Golf.

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
Make sure you go and unleash your swing with the
ping g four forty woods and irons crafted with precision
and power. That's all I need. That's what's been holding
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Speaker 3 (01:34:35):
Well, I don't. That's the problem. I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:34:36):
I bet I don't. I haven't unleashed my swing. Foolishly,
I have failed to still leash swing. The swing is
still leashed. Yeah, that's what am I doing?

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:34:47):
This this is kind of a fun time of year
for golf fans. It's not obviously as big a deal
as the majors, but it's almost like the fifth major
for PJ Tour players because this is like, this is
their the tour championship. This is this is their version
of the playoffs. I think it's the top fifty that
move on from this. So if you finish in the

(01:35:10):
top fifty, you move on to the next round. It
gets whittled down from there. It maybe maybe the number,
maybe I have the numbers a little bit wrong there,
but they they whittle it, whittle it down with each
tournament and decide a lone champion.

Speaker 3 (01:35:22):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
ESPN put out an interesting list, putting the one and
thirty six they're now one hundred and thirty six one
hundred and thirty six FBS college football teams into power tiers.

Speaker 3 (01:35:34):
Okay, how many tiers are there?

Speaker 2 (01:35:38):
Let me make sure I have the correct number of
tiers before I put James on the spot.

Speaker 3 (01:35:43):
I mean, that's one of my favorite Okay, there's too many.

Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
That depends on that depends on how good the team is,
how many tiers they'll be?

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
Right, there's no James, not that team. Wrong tiers, My bad?
The I E. R S. I thought you were. There's
too much people crying.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
Twenty total all right, there's twenty two total tiers, twenty levels.

Speaker 3 (01:36:03):
I don't like.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
I don't like using tier because verbally it sounds like
crying the twenty different levels that A sorted these. You
don't like setting me up for bad puns?

Speaker 3 (01:36:13):
Correct?

Speaker 2 (01:36:13):
I know that that's also the problem. If Tier one
A is Ohio State and Texas alone, as you know,
national Championship favorite type teams should.

Speaker 3 (01:36:26):
Really just be Ohio State alone. But move on.

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
And if Georgia, Oregon, and Penn State are on Tier
one B, and then you go all the way down
to Tier twenty, and it's the teams that all of
us like to use as punchlines, which unfortunately is going
to be the perpetual reality for UMass, for New Mexico State,

(01:36:51):
akron Ball State, et cetera. The Citadel, Probably they they
not even they're not fbs.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
Oh these are fbs of course. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
So if that's Tier twenty, where do you think the
utes are? Which tier do you think ESPN has put
the Utah on? Let's see, so just thinking out loud here.

Speaker 4 (01:37:16):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
One of the what was that athletic article? Was that
about the valuations of programs? Utah was thirtieth in there,
which is not a powerlink power ranking. Their thirtieth around
thirtieth in the coaches poll. I'm gonna say that it
put them. Would that be a top ten tier in
this list if they're If they're thirty, okay, i'm gonna say,

(01:37:40):
I'm gonna say nine. I'm gonna help you by. I'm
gonna help you by. I'm gonna give you the subheadings.
I'm gonna give you the names of the team. Okay, okay, Uh,
One A and one B are the championship expectations, Tier
two playoff expectations. Okay, So two Utahs and two tier three. Uh,
someone the SEC has to lose Games two. Tier four

(01:38:04):
last year's playoff surprises. Tier five so hot right now?
Tier six the Hansel Tier Tier six, the Big twelve
is the new acc coastal Uh. Tier seven flying beneath
the radar like Tom Cruise in Maverick. All right, well done,
little movie reference. Was he under the radar? Tier eight

(01:38:25):
regression to the mean? Yeah, that whole thing in Top
Gun Mavericks. That's right, My bad, Come on, I was
thinking what under the radar means?

Speaker 3 (01:38:36):
Not literally? That's right?

Speaker 4 (01:38:39):
He was.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:40):
Tier nine regression to the mean, the good kind of
regression to the mean. Tier ten the Big ten's ticking clocks.

Speaker 4 (01:38:49):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:38:50):
Tier ten B the Group of six's other playoff contenders.
So not ten B.

Speaker 2 (01:38:57):
So so you helped me out there. There's a few
that are named for conferences. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:39:03):
What was nine? Again? Nine was regression to the mean,
the good kind.

Speaker 6 (01:39:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
I think that's what I said before you started naming him.
I think I'm gonna stick with that.

Speaker 3 (01:39:12):
All right.

Speaker 2 (01:39:13):
Well, you're dead wrong, James, and you should be embarrassed
about They're in Tier five so hot? Right?

Speaker 3 (01:39:18):
No, so hot? Right now? It's Illinois Hanseltier.

Speaker 2 (01:39:22):
Yeah, the lou got to Hansels here and actually that
is what it comes to predicting which teams that might
that might be. The schools in Tier five are the
hottest things since Hansel and the hit Runway.

Speaker 3 (01:39:35):
He's so hot right now. Oh see that Hansel's so
hot right now.

Speaker 2 (01:39:41):
The so hot right now teams are Illinois, Louisville, Texas Tech,
and Utah.

Speaker 3 (01:39:46):
Oh okay, there's.

Speaker 2 (01:39:48):
Plenty of buzz that this year's Indiana could be Illinois.
Jeff Schwartz talked about how they've got one of the
best offensive lines in college football when he joined US
this week. The Zullinois have a really bad schedule. They
can really take advantage of two Indiana did.

Speaker 3 (01:40:05):
Yes, they do? Actually?

Speaker 1 (01:40:06):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:40:07):
Utah enters this season as a trendy pick of the
Big Twelve thanks to some returning stars, an expectation that
last year's bad luck has to turn, and finally opening
a season with someone other than and this is actually
messed up and yeah, might make an appearance on the
Grievances tomorrow, and finally opening a season with someone other

(01:40:28):
than the hollowed out shell of Cam Rising and QbH stray.
I do not endorse that on this show. I was
hesitant to even read it. How dare you ESPN Cam
if he heard if he heard that all the way
back in Newbury Park, we are we apologize Cam. Maybe

(01:40:49):
he's actually still No, No, he's got to be back
there because the high school football season is about got
a game next week. He's on the staff, so he's
he's back home. I was gonna say, maybe he's even
hearing it because he's still in Utah. No, No, he's
got a game next week. Yeah, that's all. That is
quite the unnecessary stray. I mean to say, it's it

(01:41:10):
would have been fine if they said and they don't
have They don't have the uncertainty of whether or not
their quarterback is going to be healthy like they had
this Cam rising.

Speaker 3 (01:41:22):
But that is not what they said.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
No, I don't like the reference and I don't support it,
but I do support the idea that they are trendy
pick to win the Big tohat right now. This one
also interesting point about Louisville. If if luck kept Utah
for the Big twelve race last season, it might have
kept Louisville from the playoffs. The Cardinals lost four games
three to top fifteen teams all by a touchdown or less,

(01:41:46):
which is a point you could make about Utah football.
Not the top fifteen teams, of course, but losing a
lot of close games.

Speaker 3 (01:41:56):
Yeah, along with the defeat.

Speaker 2 (01:41:58):
At the hands of Stanford that will go down this
pouss be the single dumbest way to lose a football
game that didn't involve throwing a shoe and that I
love the point they made. This is good writing. That
thing about cam Rising bad riding, This is good writer.
I mean, if you're not creative way of talking about
cam Rising, then if you're not psyched for Texas Tech
this year, how much cash would it take to change

(01:42:20):
your mind?

Speaker 3 (01:42:22):
That's good writing. Yeah, that's a that's a it's a
masterful sentence. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:27):
I Louisville was really good last season, but they they
did have a lot of bad luck. As far as
far as in close games. I'm not sure they had
as much bad injury luck that Utah had. I'm not
sure many teams in the country did.

Speaker 3 (01:42:42):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:42:43):
Curious where BYU lands b Yu is in the regression
to the mean the bad kind? Yeah, they're Tier number
eight BYU Duke Mizu Syracuse and Vanderbilt. I can understand
why they why they'd be put in that category. I thought,
well before the Reds laugh stuff, well before that made

(01:43:06):
news about why he eventually had to transfer, I was
thinking they were gonna regress to the mean. They're not
gonna get as many turnovers, and if they get the
if they get a similar amount of turnovers, they're not
gonna go They're not gonna go for touch as many
touchdowns did this last season, Probably not gonna get as
many special team touchdowns because that stuff just that tends

(01:43:28):
to that stuff tends to be you're really good at
that this year. The ball bounces your way in that
regard that one season, and then the next season you
kind of you're looking up at the sky with your
hands up, like, what's going what happened?

Speaker 3 (01:43:45):
We were so good at this last year?

Speaker 2 (01:43:46):
It's like, well, because the ball literally had to bounce
in your direction for you to have that kind of
insane production special teams and defensive touchdowns and turnovers, it
doesn't really happen been like that two years in a
row typically, So I was thinking for those reasons before
they might be a regression to the mean. But you

(01:44:12):
seem you seem to think maybe not for that same reasons,
but you seem to think that they could that they're
poised to still have a really good year. I think
they could have a really good year. I just think that,
you know, people hate hearing it on the Home of
the Utes, but BYU football has become Utah football a
defense you can rely on. I think they're gonna have

(01:44:33):
a good running game. There's questions in the passing game
this year because there's questions about the quarterback. There's actually
not questions about their wide receiver room. So I just
think that they're gonna have a really solid year. I
don't I don't know that they'll be an eleven win team. Again,
I think that they are going to be a factor
in the conference championship race. But that is true of

(01:44:56):
probably six different teams in the Big Twelve. Yeah, and
there was an interesting talking about that. Interesting facts that
I have to mention BYU and Syracuse are both in
the same tier regression to the Me and the Bad Kind.
They were tied or trailing seven times going into the
fourth quarter last year, and each of those teams b

(01:45:17):
YU and Syracuse in those scenarios tied or trailing going
into the fourth quarter six and one.

Speaker 3 (01:45:23):
Yeah. See, that's another thing.

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
Like I talked about the not getting as many turnovers,
not getting getting as many defensive and special teams touchdowns
then year, you know, multiple years in a row. But
that's a big reason why they were so good in
close games. Oh see, and close games don't. You don't
necessarily get on the right side of close games a

(01:45:47):
couple of years in a row like that. You gotta
be able to blow you gotta be able to dominate teams.
And that's the kind of thing that carries over year
to year. BUYU didn't necessarily do that last season, although
they had a dominant record. Look, Washington made it all
the way to a National championship game without dominating anybody,
So it can happen for one year.

Speaker 3 (01:46:08):
I think winning is what matters. You gotta win.

Speaker 2 (01:46:11):
And look, do I think that BYU lost important talent,
sure on the offensive line especially, and anytime you lose
a returning starter quarterback, that's losing important talent. I just
think that you're gonna be able to replace that production
at quarterback. Whether you can replace the intangibles, we'll see,

(01:46:32):
you're gonna be able to replace that production. And then
the offensive line question is kind of a wait and
see sort of problem. And maybe and you know what,
I'm with you with the I can believe that because
of how good the coaching staff is, because of how
good the other returning talent is, especially on the defensive side,
in the wide receiver corps running backs for BYU, I

(01:46:54):
can believe that they will be able to find other
ways to win games than what they than what they
do last season. If that's not, if that proofs to
not be as sustainable as I as I believe it
will be.

Speaker 3 (01:47:05):
So all I gotta take a break.

Speaker 2 (01:47:06):
We'll start our number three with Ari Tempkind, Big twelve Insider.

Speaker 3 (01:47:10):
Excuse me on ESPN seven hundred and ninety two one FM.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
O me, no, You're tuned to the Shan O'Connell Show
from the Murdoch Chevrolet Studio of ESPN seven hundred and
ninety two one a half am.

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
Welcome back to the Shawn O'Connell Show, our number three
on a Thursday, and we welcome Ari Tempkin, Big twelve Insider.

Speaker 3 (01:47:45):
All right, welcome for the show. How are you, sir,
I'm great, OC.

Speaker 4 (01:47:48):
How are you buddy doing?

Speaker 3 (01:47:49):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:47:50):
Man? We're what twenty three days away from Utah kicking off.
It's college football season. Exciting times here in Salt Lake City.
You know how it is when it's just practice time.
There's optimism. Everyone's brimming with it, and a lot of
Ute fans are feeling extra optimism because depending on what
sportsbook you look at. But Vegas is starting to show

(01:48:12):
a little bit of confidence that the Utes are going
to have a bounce back year.

Speaker 3 (01:48:16):
We've seen multiple publications.

Speaker 2 (01:48:19):
Folks listen to my show, they listen to other shows,
they listen to your show, and you know, we try
to shape thoughts in a realistic way. When you're prognosticating
at this point in the cycle, how much do you
pay attention to Vegas and how much do you pay
attention to the rest of the publications out there and
helping frame your own opinions.

Speaker 4 (01:48:38):
Yeah, it's a great question. I think. You know, with Vegas,
it's really interesting to see where the lines move, you know,
so obviously betters to a degree are going to shift
the line, so that can obviously skew perception. So I
mean I always start with, like, Okay, who did they
initially prognosticate or who did they initially put as the favorite,

(01:48:58):
you know, to win the conference for you know, to
they're over under where's the Jews said? At is it?
You know? Are they influenced one way or the other.
That's I think where I like to start. And then
you know, once you get a week, two weeks, three
weeks online, you start to see, you know, where Better's
influenced this. Actually, it's funny. We were we were doing
sixteen team previews over sixteen days. We did BYU yesterday

(01:49:20):
and Utah today. And speaking of that, the line for
the opening game at UCLA started at four and a half.
Utah was favored four and a half. That line has
now moved to six and a half, and I'm thinking, man,
I wish I could have gotten that at four and
a half.

Speaker 2 (01:49:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's uh snooze. You lose apparently in that
line movement at least.

Speaker 4 (01:49:42):
So yeah, well, CLA team that circles to tackle sorry,
let's see for a UCLA team that circles to tackle,
Devin DApp Here and Wayshaw Parker are gonna be a
huge problem for them. I see a week one.

Speaker 2 (01:49:53):
That's uh, I tend to be overly cautious when we're
talking about you know, this time of year, and I
telled people, hey, man, Utah should win that game. But
Utah is, you know, they're figuring some things out, adding
a new offense. And Ucla, even when they're not good,
they do have good athletes. That's one thing that the
Bruins always can field is just you know, freaks on

(01:50:17):
defense and freaks on their offense as well. So even
as that line moves, what do you think is the
biggest obstacle in week one for Utah? Cause we're what
a week away from them starting the focus on Ucla
and the install and things like that.

Speaker 4 (01:50:32):
Yeah, and look, I mean all of these non conference
games for the Big Twelve against Big Ten and SEC
opponents are huge, you know, because it you know, perception
is reality in college football. And there's a lot of them.
You know, Baylor opens up Friday, August twenty ninth at
home against Auburn, you know, Ucla rather Utah playing at
the Rose Bowl against Ucla, you know, And I mean

(01:50:53):
just there's just a bunch of them in the first
couple of weeks of the season that are huge for
this conference. But you know, don't get UCLA was able
to spend some money this offseason and coax Nico i
am Liava to leave Tennessee and come back home to UCLA.
And I mean, for me, what an interesting opening matchup

(01:51:14):
for him considering you know, the strength of Utah you know,
is pretty consistently on defense, So really tough way for
them to start, you know, and for him to start.
And I you know, you never wish ill on any
of these kids or any of these guys, but man,
it won't take him long for him to realize he
ain't knox Hill anymore.

Speaker 5 (01:51:34):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:51:34):
They they and you're right, I mean, Ucla is always
gonna have athletes. They are always gonna have talent, Like
there's you know, there's an allure of that program, and
so like there's no doubt about they're gonna have ballers.
They've got NFL players. But yeah, I just I feel
like the matchup, Like UCLA was one of the worst
teams in college football last year at tackling, so number
one that stands out to me in a big way
against the team like Utah was gonna force you to tackle.

(01:51:56):
Like I I'm not trying to say Utah is enough.
It doesn't have laws. Everybody does, but like one of
the things they're they're really going to take advantage of
opposition is teams that can't tackle, because you know, the
more I watch what New Mexico did last year, the
more I see similarities to when Mila mad Or Kansas
had Andy Colden Nicky as their offensive coordinator. You know,

(01:52:19):
I wouldn't have called Andy Colden Nicky's offense an option
offense because it's not a traditional option, but it's an
option offense. And I think we're going to see a
lot of that, which is just a lot of window dressing.
You know, a lot of misdirection, a lot of prestat movement,
and so you know, when you again have a team
that struggles to tackle, that is going to be very problematic.

(01:52:39):
You know, they don't know where the ball is going
to go. Obviously, I think we're going to see situations
where you know, Rogers and Parker are going to be
on the field at the same time with some of
that misdirection. So I think Utah, when it gets down
to it, could struggle against teams defensively that forced them
to have to pass the times. But I don't think
UCLA is going to be that type of team.

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
I've been setting some over on numbers for the University
of Utah, and we've been focusing on offense this week,
and well, I'll throw some over unders for offensive or
excuse me, for defensive stats next week. And today we
got to one that was you know, it kind of
haunts the conversation around Devin Dampier because he had the

(01:53:19):
twelve touchdown passes twelve interceptions at New Mexico last year.
It's a little bit of an apple's an oranges comparison.
Because you're playing in the Mount West Conference. We think
that the roster at New Mexico was a lot more
limited than the roster at the University of Utah is.
But if I give you an over or under for

(01:53:40):
twenty three and a half passing touchdowns for this Utah offense,
with the assumption that Devin Dampier knock On Wood, stays
healthy and is quarterbacking every one of these games, and
then an over under number of eleven and a half interceptions,
which is right where he was at last year. Twelve
What do you take on the overs and unders?

Speaker 3 (01:54:00):
Wow?

Speaker 4 (01:54:01):
Yeah, so twelve touchdowns and twelve picks last year, You
know that seems like a ton of touchdowns when I
mean what Traditionally and especially within recent history, you know,
passing the football has not been a major strength of Utah,
especially at the wide receiver position, So like, not only
is it all right you're concerned about his ability to pass,

(01:54:23):
but also do the wide outs? Does Utah have the
wide outs to win on the outside, and especially after
losing Branch, you know, following the spring. I mean, I
like Tobias Merriweather a lot, so I think there's some
options there. But I'm I think if we look at
the weaknesses of this team, like positionally, I'd say the
wide receivers certainly one of those. So you know, to me,

(01:54:43):
and I'm not exactly answering your question, I guess I
would take the under on on him throwing twice as
many touchdown passes, and I would probably take the under
on him throwing as many interceptions as he did last year,
because I just don't I don't foresee a situation which
Kyle Whittingham allows him to throw twelve interceptions together this year,
because this can completely derail the plan for this Utah team,

(01:55:08):
Like I you know, and even in speaking with Kyle
waitning Ham at Big twelve media days and he mentioned
us like he wants to see a five percent bump
in his completion percentage, so somewhere in the low to
mid sixties, which you know is completely reasonable. And then
you know, obviously he's they're trying to get in the
back of damp Pierre's mind in certain situations like you know,
we don't need we don't need interceptions on first down.
It was something damp Pier said to us, just like

(01:55:29):
in watching film back last year, that there's certain situations
last year that you know, first year for him in
this New Mexico offenses. He was with Jason Beck like
he just he took probably a little bit too many chances.
So I guess I take the under in both of those.
I just I'm not confidence his ability to double up
his touchdown passes from last year. I'm also not confident
that he's going to throw with twelve interceptions, and I

(01:55:50):
think that's the bigger number, honestly, Like I have my
thing on Utah. I've said this before, is like they're
gonna win a lot of games because teams will not
be able to stop their rushing attack. It but for
them to win a big twelve championship, I think they're
gonna have to pass the football. And like if I
look at again going back to my Jayhawks with Andy Kurtlemicky,

(01:56:11):
like when they won nine games and won a Bowl
game with Jason Bean at quarterback, who was their backup
that year, but he was spectacular, Like he had track
speed and he was phenomenal. But when they needed to,
they could complete the ball down the field. And like,
I just think, like there's teams that if you're not
able to like with that motion, you need to keep
catch the linebackers in position to where they're in conflict.

(01:56:33):
That's the biggest part to that window dressing is creating
conflicts to linebackers. And you know, Cincinnati is one of
the teams I've used it as example, not like Cincinnati's
a world beater, but late in the season, Utah at Cincinnati, Well,
if they haven't proven that they can consistently win down
the field. And Cincinnati has a really good front front seven,
Their defensive line is really good with Dante cor Leon

(01:56:53):
and I think they've got one of the best linebacker
corps of the Big twelve. Like that's one of those
games where it's like they're not going to believe that
you could throw the foot fotball if you can't prove
over the course of the season that you can. And
so that I think that motion and that misdirection doesn't
matter as much, you know, because you're not going to
suck the linebackers in that way.

Speaker 2 (01:57:08):
Yeah, you know, I have the same thing, the same
thought process when I'm talking about how you balance out
an offense that is certainly with the personnel they have,
including the offensive line, I think it is going to
be very run heavy, and uh, you know, the concepts
that will be integrated and added to what we saw
from New Mexico are more likely to be run concepts

(01:57:31):
than anything creative in the passing game, because this is
still a Kyle Whittingham head coach team, right And I
was looking for context and all these numbers I'm sitting
I look back at Utah football history, I look at
some of what New Mexico did, and I'm looking like,
where are the realistic numbers to set? And you say,
all right, well, if you if you throw you know,

(01:57:52):
twenty four touchdown passes, that's still not a crazy number.
But is it enough to win a conference championship? And
for Utah in twenty twenty one in the Pac twelve.
It was they threw thirty one touchdown passes in twenty
twenty two in a PAC twelve championship year, and then
in the years that they were runners up in the conference,

(01:58:15):
they threw twenty or fewer, which is nuts because you
look at all the other conference championship contending teams in
the country, in the Power four, Power five at least,
and these are teams who are far more prolific through
the air. So even as I'm asking these questions, every
one of these numbers I set in the passing game
is only if you hit the over just barely. It

(01:58:36):
puts you right in the middle of the Big twelve
conference from you know, last year, the year before, et cetera,
which is you know, I keep asking myself, do I
believe that Utah is ever going to be a freakishly
good passing offense, Well, not in the near future, but
is middle of the pack good enough based on your

(01:58:56):
defense and based on your run game to get you
at least to that championtube game. And I keep coming
to yes, probably, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:59:04):
Well and not only that, but like so a couple
of things, and I remember looking at this at one point,
but in the PAC twelve championship seasons, Rising had like
what five picks four picks. I mean it was like
thirty one and three, thirty one and four, right like
something like something ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (01:59:21):
It was thirty one and ten the second year, and
it was twenty four and eight to the first.

Speaker 4 (01:59:26):
Okay, so more than I was, you know, anticipating, but
still a pretty good number, especially the thirty one and
ten like a that's a good ratio, that's what you're
looking for. So you know, for me, I zero in
on like I'm more concerned about the twelve than I
would be about the twelve touchdowns with Dampier, Like I'm
so much more concerned about the interceptions. And to your point,
maybe I shouldn't be. Maybe, you know, if he's at

(01:59:48):
two to one, obviously that's certathly better than one to one,
which what he was last year, But that would two
to one be good enough? The other part, and this
is like the part that keeps coming back to me,
so like just stylistically, this conference is a pass havvy conference.
But that's a huge departure from what it was last
year and early last couple of years, I mean two

(02:00:08):
years ago. This conference had a Doak Walker Award winner
and Ali Gordon, who rushed for nearly two thousand yards.
And even last year though Gordon had a really bad year.
I mean, you look across the league and there are
a bunch of guys that got drafted RJ. Harvey, Devin
Neil that were big twelve backs last year and they're
all gone now. And like overwhelmingly the strength of the
conference the quarterback position. And then you look across and

(02:00:29):
you're like, there's a lot of good receivers. So it
almost feels like Utah is zigging a little bit here,
even though it's you know, it's pretty traditional for the
way the youths have been stylistically last you know, decade plus.
It's a total zig to the rest of the conference.
And I can't decide that it's a good thig or
a bad thing because and I you know, one of
the things we talked about was like, is this like

(02:00:50):
a I mean in basketball trading threes for twos? Here
where all these teams are gonna be passing to you,
you know, twice as many times as you're running the
football in a game. And I mean, I don't know
that it's a complete comparison from a three to twos thing.
But it is like there are a total stylistically outlier
this year in the Big Twelve, where most teams are

(02:01:11):
gonna be very pass savvy and most teams are kind
of built with passing offenses. There's not gonna be a
lot of quality rushing offenses this year, which again I
can't I can't decide if that's a good thing or
a bad thing for Utah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
Yeah, that's a tough one because, like you said, I mean,
there's a reason why football over the years has moved
toward the passing game. It's just a more efficient and
more rapid way to put points on the board. And
Utah is really good when they play the game at
their own pace and they can slow everybody else down.
And obviously a ball control offense is something that has

(02:01:46):
really helped Kyle Whittingham. But his best years, his championship
level years in the Mount West Conference before and in
the Pac Twelve before have been years of more significant
balance where your offense is and you're putting up touchdowns,
you're not doing the Colorado thing or you're not doing
the you know Joe Burrow Lsu thing where you got

(02:02:07):
sixty touchdown passes, but the better years for Kyle Whittingham
two thousand and eight and twenty twenty one, twenty twenty.

Speaker 3 (02:02:15):
Two, you balance it out.

Speaker 2 (02:02:16):
You don't do things the way that people think of
Kyle Whittingham offense as doing things. So I'm curious to
see how it nets this year like it sounds you are.
And you know that brings me to the question of,
like with the parody and the conference and with some
of these stylistic differences in battles coming, how much are

(02:02:37):
schedules going to matter? You think when we get down
to this the last three four weeks of the season,
the tougher schedules obviously presenting greater challenges along the way,
but also the tie breakers that we're going to get
to with a team that with the conference that's got
sixteen teams now and no chance for everyone to play everyone.

Speaker 4 (02:02:56):
Yeah, I mean, I think you just hit the nail
on the head there in terms of the signific against
the of the scheduling. And you know, one of the
things like for me BYU and Utah in particular, and
so we the way we did our sixteen team previous
and sixteen days, is we the three of us put
together our poll medium like I was James and our
producer Brian. We basically put together our teams where we

(02:03:18):
ranked them one through sixteen, and then the aggregate score
of the three of us is where we've finished out.
So we had BYU at ten and Utah at nine,
or it's BYU at nine and Utah at eight one
of the other I can't remember exactly, but like this
speaks to like this conference needs to be more predictable,

(02:03:39):
and I think part of the reason we're like having
such a difficult time in prognosticating for these teams is
because well, obviously what happened last year, but like what's
happened within this conference in terms of parody really you know,
in recent history, but obviously that's new to Utah. But
even Utah wasn't immune to the parody last year, given
you know, how poorly the season went, you know, And

(02:04:01):
so like it's in other conferences, it's like it feels
like one plus one equals too, you know, like Okay,
they're really talented here, and like this should work out,
and like they're gonna be good because of this, and
it's just I feel like I am I don't know
if you are constantly guessing myself on things because this
has just been a legal parody and like what you
expect does it always come to fruition like in other leagues.

(02:04:23):
So it would be nice for this league to be
a little bit more what we expect so that it's
easier to predict and then you can look at your
schedule and be like, hey, this is gonna be a
really tough schedule basically the opponus that this team has
down the stretch of the season. But yeah, I mean,
so this all goes back to your question, which is yeah,
I mean I think this is significant. Like TCU, for me,

(02:04:45):
is a team that is victim going to be a
victim to its schedule. I mean, Utah is a really
tough schedule in the Big Twelve. I think when I
looked at it, they play the top five teams that
I projected in the Big Twelve this year. Maybe the
exception was Iowa State, but even Kansas down the stretch
of the year. At Kansas, you know, opening up a
new stadium be a tough could be a tough one.
Not you know, I projected I was stayed ahead of Kansas,

(02:05:05):
but still like five, six, seven, wherever it is. So
when you think about Texas Tech and Arizona State and
Kansas State, and then you know those games are at home,
but you get West Virginia on the road, which is
a tough road game because it's because of the distance,
you know. And so yeah, I mean it's Cincinnati late
in the season. I think Cincinnati could be a surprise team,

(02:05:27):
you know. Now, I think they need to take a
step kind of like we've talked about with Utah in
their passing offense. They really had no receivers to speak
of last year and that was a big reason why
Sports Soresby took a nosedive in the final seven games
of the season. But you know that Cincinnati is going
to be good in their front seven, as we talked about,
and I think that could play to one of the
you know, a strength on strengths Utah's rush offense against

(02:05:47):
Cincinnati's rush defense. Well soon when you get there. It's
late in the season, but yeah, I mean, I one
hundred percent schedule is something to pay attention to. Like
we can look and break down these teams and look
at strengths, look at weaknesses. But if you're not getting
the whole picture of who they play, when they play them,
and you know, and where those games are. You you're
missing a huge part of it. I think TCUs one

(02:06:08):
of those teams, like tc was a really tough schedule.
I might have picked TCU to be a you know,
in the conference championship had they had an easier schedule.
And I think like for Tectas Tech or some of
these other teams where it's like, oh, they have an
easier road there because their schedule isn't tough. And again
that can change and has changed. Like Greecent history suggests
that you know that what we think might be a
tough schedule, is it actually going to be a tough
schedule and vice versa. So that's why I'd like this

(02:06:30):
conference to be a little bit more predictable in the future.

Speaker 2 (02:06:33):
Well, I know that I know that this time last year,
all of us here in Salt Lake City had that
road trip to Oklahoma State scheduled, like that's where the
conference has decided, that's the game right there. And then
when Isaac Wilson played well in that game, we're just like, hey,
everything's going to be just fine. Well, you know how

(02:06:53):
the season worked out after that but it's predictability, while boring,
would be nice to be a little bit more boring
in the twelve right now.

Speaker 4 (02:07:04):
It would be like you know, I mean, we could
probably give a pretty good prediction of what the top
five of the AP of the preseason AP pole will
be a twenty twenty six. Okay, we haven't even had
the AP preseason poll release for twenty twenty five, but
you and I could probably put our heads together and
predict what the top five is gonna be for twenty
twenty six because it could look awfully similar to what
it will here at twenty twenty five. It's gonna have

(02:07:25):
a lot of Georgia's and Texas and Bama and Ohio State.
And so, I mean, you know that that's the predictability
you're talking about. And yeah, I mean I think that's
where the league is, you know, I mean, the league
doesn't want us saying that it's parody. They want, you know,
they want to use a different word for it, because
even that word is you as a descriptor for the conference,

(02:07:48):
does the conference, you know, a disservice. It's viewed nationally,
you know, as a negative, and you know whether or
not it should be is a disagree, you know, is
a discussion all you know is a different discussion altogether.
But you know, that's where this conference is right now.
It is it's a fun conference. Anybody that covers this
league knows that. But then anybody from the outside looking
in that covers college football is like, oh, it's a

(02:08:10):
fun league to watch. They have, you know, they really
close games and you know, you don't know who's going
to win, and like that, I think is where the
conference hurts itself because you know, that's why BYU probably
wasn't closer to discussion about getting to the college football
playoff last year for that exact perception and bias and reason.
So despite the fact that they beat SMU and had
some quality wins against opponents that were obviously in the playoffs.

(02:08:33):
So yeah, I mean it would be nice. And you know,
I don't think Ohio State's going to end up as
a top five team in the postseason because they've got
brand new, you know, brand new players everywhere. I think
the most overrated team in the preseason.

Speaker 2 (02:08:45):
So we'll see when we look at the coaches poll
and the Ape Bowl comes out on Monday. When you
look at the coaches polled not a lot of love
for the conference. Arizona State highest ranked at eleven, everybody
else down in the twenty to twenty five range, and
then plenty of also rans. Utah I think came in

(02:09:06):
netted out at number thirty in the In the preseason
coaches poll, do you expect any difference in the upcoming
eight people?

Speaker 4 (02:09:16):
Probably not much, which is I mean astonishing. So I also,
I didn't know this, but voters for the eight people
had to get their votes in by August first, which
I mean, I guess. As foolish as it is to
do a preseason poll, it's even more foolish to do
it even before fall camp has started. But here we are,
And yeah, I mean, it does seem like, despite the

(02:09:40):
fact that the coaches during fall camp will tell you
that they're only focused on themselves somehow, despite that, they're
still filling out a ballot. You know they're not, we
know they're not. It's you know, it's usually like the
PR director, the SID that's still ag meant out for them.
But like the coaches will say, I'm only focused on us,
I'm only focused on us, We're only focused on us,
really focused on us, And you have the how they

(02:10:00):
come up with a pole? I don't now that's possible,
but that's what they do every year, and so they
shouldn't be a credible voice in this because they're only
focused on themselves and they probably should be as coaches
of those programs. And in despite that, the AP pole
does seem.

Speaker 3 (02:10:13):
To mirror that.

Speaker 4 (02:10:15):
I mean, I maintained maybe we should just take the
recruiting rankings and ranked teams in the preseason based on
where they finished in the last few recruiting rankings, because
that's what it seems like we do. I mean, how
else would Ohio State be as high as they are?
How else would Michigan be as high as they are?
I mean, Miami. Miami is the one that kills me.
Like nobody does more with less. I mean maybe Texas
and Texas A and m do more with less talent

(02:10:37):
to do less with more talent, but like Miami.

Speaker 3 (02:10:40):
My god.

Speaker 4 (02:10:40):
They were nine to oh last year and then lost
three of the last four games, included losing the Iowa
State in their bowl game.

Speaker 2 (02:10:47):
Look, losing the number one overall NFL draft pick is
not going to hurt them.

Speaker 3 (02:10:52):
Okay, they They're right where they belong.

Speaker 4 (02:10:55):
They went nine to zero, lost three of the last
four games, with the runner up to the Heisman Trophy
and then number one overall. Pick my god, why do
we keep overrating Miami every year like this is nineteen
ninety nine.

Speaker 3 (02:11:08):
Well, tonight we're going to party like it is. Man.

Speaker 2 (02:11:11):
Go all right, very much, looking forward to all of
our conversations that will happen between now and the end
of the college football season. I appreciate your time today
and uh yeah, we'll talk.

Speaker 3 (02:11:21):
We'll chat again soon.

Speaker 4 (02:11:23):
Appreciate you, OCB well brother, take care.

Speaker 2 (02:11:25):
That's sorry, temkating Big twelve Radio on tune in Big
twelve Insider, and you can hear like he knows each
of these teams. He knows the challenges, the schedules, he
knows what's in front of each of these teams.

Speaker 3 (02:11:38):
And you know he's.

Speaker 2 (02:11:41):
I think he is one that looks at Utah's schedule
and waits it a little bit heavier than maybe I do.
But there are no easy days in this Big twelve conference.
If last year is a good indicator, we've got camp Kyle.
Sound for you next on the Sean O'Connell Show PN
seven and ninety two one FM.

Speaker 1 (02:12:07):
You were listening to the Sean O'Connell Show from the
Murdoch Hyundai Studio of ESPN seven hundred and ninety two
to one af AM.

Speaker 2 (02:12:26):
You got preseason NFL games tonight. You're probably looking at
a situation where if you try to turn that thing
on at home, your spouse, significant other, roommates is going
to be like, what are you doing? You degenerate? Why
are you watching preseason NFL football? I have a solution
for you. You know where you will not be judged

(02:12:47):
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(02:13:07):
enamored with seeing whether or not last year's Heisman Trophy
winner Travis Hunter can actually do it on both sides
of the ball in the preseason. Big Willies is the
place you want that supportive environment. Head down there tonight,
head down there, Tomorrow, head down their, Saturday, head down there, Sunday,
head down there, anytime sports are on television, and you'll

(02:13:28):
find a welcoming environment with people just like you who
just want to sit, enjoy some food, enjoy a beverage,
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Speaker 3 (02:13:49):
Just don't try to hustle anybody.

Speaker 2 (02:13:51):
Okay, that's the public service announcement from the Sean O'Connell show.
My friends down there at Big Willies will take care
of you if you mentioned our name, I can promise
you that. And it's also like, if you are that
kind of a degenerate that wants to watch every preseason
football game, you can you can be around other people
who want to agonize over over player number fifty through

(02:14:13):
fifty three on your favorite team's active roster.

Speaker 3 (02:14:16):
Why not. There's a's the difference.

Speaker 2 (02:14:20):
That is the difference between making the playoffs and winning
the Super Bowl. Of course, by the way, Big Willis
is open right now. They're running lunch specials right now.
So if you're looking to get out of work and
you got forty minutes or an hour to kill. Go
watch some Little League World Series, crack some jokes, have

(02:14:40):
some the delicious fries or my personal favorite, the Tater
Tots Telemos he sent you, all right, we have Camp
Kyle sound. We've been promising the Camp Kyle sound all
day long and I'm a bad radio host, so we're
just now giving it to you. James actually went up
to practice and collected the sound.

Speaker 3 (02:14:59):
So what do we got?

Speaker 2 (02:14:59):
James Kyle Whittingham addressed to the media. I figured that
probably should be the first thing we played. Start off
with the head coach. Also, really good conversation with Tobias Merriweather,
a guy that a lot of people think could be
could end up being Utah's number one receiver. There is
a year in Salt Lake City who are hinging their
happiness this fall on Tobias Merriweather working out or not.

(02:15:23):
So let's do Kyle and then Tobias in a great idea,
let's go.

Speaker 7 (02:15:29):
Hell, how would you assess where your teams at now?
With pads and kind of the last weekers.

Speaker 8 (02:15:33):
I think we're in a good place today. It was
the first live work we've had. We had the opportunity
to be in full here for the first day, you
have to go through the commonization period. So we got
through that and today it was a full time of day.
We had three fifty snaps, a lot of work and
saw some really good things by Shaun Parker. We really
had some nice physical rhymes Mac Rogers as well, loveing

(02:15:56):
to move the first offense up and down field. So
a lot of good scar you know, and uh, you
know the long ways to go obviously, but we've got
nineteen more tracks and hitting down and then you line
up in CLA.

Speaker 9 (02:16:06):
How would you problem the South receive the temt.

Speaker 8 (02:16:11):
I'd say they've made big strides, uh to why ask Merriweather.
They've really doing some good things. H Tayshawn Lions or
not the station on Lions. But Zipper Zipp is doing
some good things.

Speaker 1 (02:16:25):
J J B.

Speaker 5 (02:16:25):
Cam.

Speaker 8 (02:16:25):
He's not really a way wide receiver. He was playing
a lot of clucks fight in. He's really showing up
and making his maybe his presence mind. So that's been
a big play for us to have this stuff for
a little Bote quarterback around. Now, Yeah, that's uh really
dead heat. Isaac is playing really well and so was
burd We're gonna continue that, hopefully not for a lot longer,

(02:16:47):
but it's not the same emergency as if you were
battling for QB one.

Speaker 3 (02:16:50):
We know who QB one is.

Speaker 6 (02:16:51):
So that is the most important thing.

Speaker 8 (02:16:54):
But we're going to continue that QB two battle at
least through the scrimmaging Patty, maybe beyond, depending on what
packings less.

Speaker 6 (02:17:01):
Pretty than getting back to the receiver.

Speaker 5 (02:17:03):
As you said, one of the biggest questions, you know,
we can't do less of a question or less.

Speaker 8 (02:17:07):
So we have, but still not a real two pecking order.
We're starting to get some some semblance of it, with
some some idea that we need to really see some
extensive live working on the side and to make a decision.

Speaker 7 (02:17:18):
Has there been any separation in the corners room opposite Scooty.

Speaker 8 (02:17:21):
Well, we got three or four guys that are right
in the mix, and so I would say, you know,
it's down to three or four guys opposite Scootie, but
but you know it's going to be a battle for that.
We may end up playing you know, my committee and
having rotation.

Speaker 3 (02:17:35):
We'll see how it goes.

Speaker 8 (02:17:36):
But it's very competitive and we've got three or four
guys that be playing at a very high level. It's
not we're waiting for someone to step up and play
at that level. We've got three or four guys doing
a really good job. No, one's just really separating themselves
up and sing.

Speaker 4 (02:17:49):
You said Jackson, Denny was really coming the stret Yeah,
to help you push Smith outside a little bit more.

Speaker 8 (02:17:54):
Gives us that flexibility because Jackson is operating in the
nickel spot a lot. But if you had to play
them all with these Smith inside of the nippelon. But
Smith is getting a ton of work on the outside
during these early stages, a far camp soon in case
we get to that in the problem, do you.

Speaker 2 (02:18:08):
Sign the tight end Jefferson, it's called the twenty twenty
five class.

Speaker 6 (02:18:12):
Is there any chance he plays this year?

Speaker 8 (02:18:14):
We are still waiting on eligibility ruling, and so if
he is deemed eligible, that would depend when that happens,
you know, as far as how soon we can immigrate
into what we're doing. If it takes longer rather than
shorter than maybe looking a red shirt year, and if
he doesn't get eligible at all, then he's got the
option to either red shirt back home or his junior

(02:18:35):
college or plays junior college season, So there's still a
lot of what ifs on that.

Speaker 7 (02:18:38):
How are the young defensive tackles with things really good?

Speaker 6 (02:18:41):
Really good?

Speaker 8 (02:18:42):
That's those guys are stars of the future. We got
five of them and they're all lining up against the
ones and doing a good job.

Speaker 2 (02:18:52):
So optimism from Kyle Whittingham shouting out a couple of
different guys, maybe names that you've heard before, names that
you didn't expect to hear, potentially in there as well,
you Cannon, Good for you, right, Jackuey Hunter Andrews, who
we probably skipped that one, didn't give us a ton
from yesterday. But he also shouted out fellow tight end

(02:19:16):
slash flex wide receiver.

Speaker 3 (02:19:18):
JJ Buchanon, So he got a couple of shout outs yesterday.
Good to see that, good to hear that.

Speaker 2 (02:19:23):
And of course, when it really matters is when you
roll out whatever the offense looks like at UCLA, but
you're establishing that pecking order. Now, let's hear from Tobias Meriweather.
This is the guy that a lot of folks think
could be wide receiver number one. Of course, the guy
you thought was gonna be wide receiver number one. Transferred

(02:19:45):
out after the spring, so now you're looking for that
body potentially is he the one?

Speaker 3 (02:19:50):
Take a listen?

Speaker 6 (02:19:53):
Why as you come in in.

Speaker 7 (02:19:54):
The spring of transfer port period, what's the acclimation period.

Speaker 6 (02:19:56):
Been like for you and just being able to kind
of show you tell hi.

Speaker 9 (02:20:01):
Oh, yeah, I think it's I mean before obviously, so
I think I'm kind of familiar with how it goes
and all the new stuff.

Speaker 6 (02:20:07):
That get used to in the offense and stuff.

Speaker 9 (02:20:08):
They do a good jobs new stuff and get me
actmated and everyone is so welcome.

Speaker 6 (02:20:12):
Man, it's great to be here. What is the message
to you and the recruiting to come to you saw
this time? Just come make a difference. That's really that's
what it came down to.

Speaker 3 (02:20:20):
Go to make a difference for us, Come be a
threat for us, and uh, yeah, what you like with them?

Speaker 6 (02:20:26):
I think it's been good so far.

Speaker 9 (02:20:27):
We made a lot of you know, big plays on
the offense. We made some easy consistant plays, but we've
just been I think it's.

Speaker 3 (02:20:32):
Been good so far.

Speaker 6 (02:20:32):
You know, if they're the first what five six days
can what are your thoughts on Jason Beck's offense and
how you've been so.

Speaker 9 (02:20:38):
Kind with Yeah, he runs a very like I would
say weird of offense. The way they just do stuff
is just not what's the normal offense for especially in college.
But I think it works great, especially for new guys,
and we're able to just have them then quick get
down and run it.

Speaker 4 (02:20:53):
You've played it this level before, but what do you
hopefully to get out of it this year, knowing that
you know you've still got a lot of food.

Speaker 9 (02:20:59):
Yeah, I think obviously my goal has always been since
I was young, you know, to go to the NFL,
and that's still what the cases, and I think here's
a good place where.

Speaker 5 (02:21:06):
Can do that.

Speaker 7 (02:21:07):
How comfortable are you with this TUTA offense so far?

Speaker 6 (02:21:09):
I think very comfortable.

Speaker 9 (02:21:10):
I think I've picked up pretty quickly, so I feel
like I have a good football brain, so it's kind
of come take a nature to me. But I think
guys like already had done a good job of helping
me also get in use offense.

Speaker 5 (02:21:21):
How's your relationship with coach Mike Simon.

Speaker 6 (02:21:24):
I think it's great. He's a young guy and he's
really cool.

Speaker 9 (02:21:26):
I've had like all for some of the coaches, like
I've had older coaches, a younger coach, so I.

Speaker 6 (02:21:29):
Think it's been cool to have him.

Speaker 9 (02:21:31):
He's kind of like chill, but you will make sure
your coach as well, and he do the drill work too,
I can remember.

Speaker 2 (02:21:36):
I guess even other remembers with the wider super kind
of looked to establishing number.

Speaker 9 (02:21:41):
One number year. Yeah, I don't think really. I mean
everyone goes exactly back of their head, but like really
in the front of my brain is not really you know,
becoming number one and number two, number three, whatever that is.

Speaker 6 (02:21:51):
It's just coming out being since every day and.

Speaker 3 (02:21:53):
We're about to the process.

Speaker 5 (02:21:54):
One than the results.

Speaker 7 (02:21:55):
How is someone like Ryan Davis, who who was a
part of this offense last year, maybe helped you transition?

Speaker 6 (02:22:00):
I mean critical, he's he's a leader in our room.

Speaker 9 (02:22:03):
He comes to work every day and he does it
and then he tells us what to do and you
can watch it and they'll ask you ask him questions,
and we're just going back and forth. I think both
of us are kind of on the older side of
college that we're both able to use our brains and
be able to.

Speaker 6 (02:22:14):
See what we can do and how to nically different defense.

Speaker 7 (02:22:17):
How would you evaluate this one a super?

Speaker 4 (02:22:19):
What do you think it is?

Speaker 6 (02:22:20):
Now, I think top down, we have like every type
of receiver. We have older guys.

Speaker 9 (02:22:25):
Who are just like third down whatever, consistent, guys download,
we have guys that ticket deep. We have guys that
can do everything. We have younger guys or guys everyone's
getting in the mix. So I think it's a good
mix of guys and we all come to work every day.

Speaker 4 (02:22:35):
What's going to be the key for you this season
in terms of you establishing yourself and taking that next
step in your game.

Speaker 9 (02:22:43):
I think, like I said, just worry about the process,
not worrying about what happens on Saturday as we happens
have practice. Just worry about the process every day, coming in,
watching film making, try to nother plays men know.

Speaker 6 (02:22:52):
What I'm doing, and just working on the process.

Speaker 4 (02:22:55):
Utah track, Yeah, I.

Speaker 6 (02:22:58):
Think just the like I said earlier, just the ability
to make it difference.

Speaker 9 (02:23:00):
That's really I'm looking forward just to be an offense
that wants me to be here and wants me to
be featured.

Speaker 7 (02:23:05):
How much of you caught onto kind of the mindset
of this team didn't like what it was last year.
I know you were here last year, but how do
you kind of buy into that year.

Speaker 9 (02:23:13):
Well, I think it's it's easy. You know, I was
on a team that went a lot of games last year,
and I think nobody likes to lose. And I think
coming with coach Witt, he's a he's a winner. Hey,
that's why I love I love winners. I love the
around winners because they make you better.

Speaker 2 (02:23:24):
On West, Meriweather got a good football brain. This offense
is allegedly I've never had to learn it, but a
lot of the guys offensive linemen that we've talked to
have said this way. Shawn Parker said, this digestible type
offense with that that was one of the issues some

(02:23:46):
people had. Don't count me among them, but was one
of one of the issues that some people had with
Andy ludwigs offense. There were some high minded pro concepts
in there that made it harder for transfer players, incoming players,
freshmen that weren't necessarily the bookish types in order to
to really integrate themselves rapidly into the offense. And this

(02:24:09):
that should not be a problem with what Jason Beck
is running. Yeah, and especially for someone who claims to
have a good football brain like Tobias Merriweather. That was
a that was a good line from him there. I
thought it was a pretty good mic drop moment at
the end there too, where he where he said, Kyle
Whittingham's winner.

Speaker 3 (02:24:28):
I love playing with winners because it makes you better.
And I mean that certainly.

Speaker 2 (02:24:34):
That certainly is quite the endorsement for for someone like
Kyle Whittingham, from a transfer player who played on the
West Coast and other places, for him to for him
to have said, Hey, I I picked this program because
I saw the head coach was a guy not only
new football and could coach me to be a better player.

(02:24:55):
But was it's he's a winner, And so I thought
that that was a really good line from him too.
All Right, we got to take our last break. We'll
come back. We'll give away some tickets. All Time Low
is the band. They're at the Union on October sixteenth.
The pair of tickets next. If you can answer our

(02:25:16):
trivia question. Big thanks to James forgetting that sound yesterday,
to Jerry Seiner, Cadillac, SNS Roofing, the Steel Vault, sound Warehouse,
Colligan Water Outlaw Distillery, and all of our camp Kyle sponsors.
Here on your Home with the Utes ESPN seven hundred
ninety two one FM.

Speaker 3 (02:25:33):
I don't believe in.

Speaker 4 (02:25:35):
Scenes they this.

Speaker 1 (02:25:40):
It's not Sean O'Connell's show. You were home of the
best inside of your utes. Let's get back to OC
from the Murdoch Chevrolet Studio of ESPN seven hundred ninety
two to one app band sixteen.

Speaker 3 (02:25:55):
Sean O'Connell Show.

Speaker 2 (02:25:56):
Wrapping things up here, I've got some tickets to all
time low. Oh eight seven seven three five three zero
seven hundred. You can answer today's in trivia question. We
set the over under today on interceptions thrown by the
University of Utah. The projection for twenty twenty five I
set was eleven and a half over or under last

(02:26:17):
year Devin dan Pierre through twelve at New Mexico and
the Utah offense through seventeen, which ranked what in the
Big Twelve Conference in their debut year as a Big
Twelve Conference member. Where did Utah's offense rank in interceptions

(02:26:38):
thrown in the Big Twelve last year? Eight seven seven
three five three zero seven hundred for two tickets to
all time low coming up on October sixteenth, Yes, the
Union on October sixteenth, Spence checkets in the driver are
coming up next. Tay Spence, Sean, how are you, buddy?
I'm doing great question for you. All right, So I'm

(02:27:00):
coming from the dentist. Uh huh, novacine's almost worn off?

Speaker 3 (02:27:03):
Oh nice?

Speaker 10 (02:27:04):
How to have a crown put on? Okay, it's the
most it's like my most unfavorite thing. Yeah, dentist is tough,
have been, has been since I was like a kid.
Got to do it, though, You'll learn a hard lesson.
Take a few years off, and suddenly thousands of dollars
you got to fix the things. Yeah, what's the equivalent
like if I asked you the one way you do

(02:27:25):
not want to spend your morning, because the answer for
me might be the dentist chair.

Speaker 5 (02:27:30):
Now we can get weird and say jail, cell whatever.

Speaker 2 (02:27:35):
The dentist chair is way up there. Yeah, I mean
that's a top three probably for anybody. I'll tell you
one that I had to do recently, cell phone store.

Speaker 5 (02:27:47):
Oh that's that's a good that's an underrated answer.

Speaker 3 (02:27:51):
It is so aggravated.

Speaker 5 (02:27:53):
Yep.

Speaker 10 (02:27:53):
How long that process takes, no matter what they say,
plan on being there for multiple hours. Like you go
in there be like, yeah you did twenty thirty minutes.
Boom two and a half hours later or so.

Speaker 3 (02:28:03):
There it is.

Speaker 5 (02:28:04):
That's a answer.

Speaker 2 (02:28:05):
It is insane. Yeah, my old phone did the thing
where it won't charge anymore.

Speaker 5 (02:28:10):
You know, Oh Apple's saying it's time for you to
pay us more money.

Speaker 2 (02:28:13):
Yeah, Like the charging port just no longer reads that
there's anything plugged into it. And you have about three
to six months where you can kind of like force
the pressure, do the angle, clean the lint out and stuff.
But eventually the engineer at obsolescence will take place.

Speaker 5 (02:28:28):
You gotta do it.

Speaker 1 (02:28:28):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:28:29):
So I went in did my duty as a tech consumer,
and I got my new iPhone and I was like, Okay,
that's the one I want.

Speaker 3 (02:28:38):
That's my plan. I'd like to leave now. Took ninety minutes.

Speaker 2 (02:28:42):
Yeah, and like a moron, I took my three and
a half year old and she was lovely, she was wonderful,
but she's just like, Dad, what are we doing?

Speaker 5 (02:28:51):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (02:28:51):
I'm like, go look at the cases again and tell
me which one you like best.

Speaker 2 (02:28:55):
And I'm looking at the person who's doing the selling
and I'm just like, there's no like, you can't upsell
me on anything. I want the same plan. I'm I'll
give you my old phone, give me that new one.
It should take ten minutes.

Speaker 10 (02:29:10):
I'm glad you have Netflix for free, but I'm fine,
thank you very much. Yeah, I don't need any more data.
And both of these experiences dentist, cell phone purchase, they
have something in common. Unless I'm missing something, we haven't
evolved much with these processes, Like.

Speaker 5 (02:29:26):
We're still doing the drill with the dentist.

Speaker 10 (02:29:28):
Like I hear the drill, and I just feel like
more progress should have been made because when I hear
that drill, even before it enters the mouth, when I
hear the drill.

Speaker 3 (02:29:39):
I just think, yes, my whole body tenses up.

Speaker 5 (02:29:43):
And I have a good dentist. He's a good friend.

Speaker 10 (02:29:45):
He's a big sports fan, good golfer, so I'm not
knocking on him. But whether it's data transfer at a
cell phone store or drilling teeth at the dentist, we've
progressed in so many ways in society.

Speaker 5 (02:29:57):
I feel like these two experiences are still stuck in
the mud.

Speaker 2 (02:30:00):
I've become a curmudgeon with things that take long and
shouldn't take long, because you know, time has at a
premium when you're working three jobs and you have small
children and all that stuff, and you're just like, I
don't want to spend my afternoon sitting here at the
fill in your cell phone provider store.

Speaker 10 (02:30:20):
I'm with you the other thing that and I really,
you know, it's like the old arrested development lined. I'm
not blaming it on nine to eleven, but it certainly
didn't help. I'm not blaming this on COVID, but it
certainly didn't help the customer service experience. When you call anything,
anybody anywhere to try to get somebody on the phone, COVID,

(02:30:42):
the bureaucracy of COVID allowed people to be like, yeah,
it's COVID, no one's here, we can't answer the phone.
And now the implementation of AI, like if you call
any sort of credit card company, cell phone service, cable
company just to get a human on the phone feels
impossible these days, and now now it's it's never been
a seamless process. And look, I always keep in mind,

(02:31:05):
these folks are doing this for a living, so I
certainly have never root to somebody who's on the phone.
But getting somebody on the phone just to talk about
the most mundane tiny detail that needs to be taken
care of doesn't it feel like we're moving in the
wrong direction with that?

Speaker 2 (02:31:19):
Yeah, yeah, you're on hope forever. I gotta I got
a bill. I got a cable bill the other day.
Uh huh, that's you know, my cable and internet or whatever. Yeah,
was double the normal price. I was like, why is
it double the normal price? So I logged into my
account and it's because the automatic draft, like the automatic
payment didn't get withdrawn last month.

Speaker 3 (02:31:42):
And I was like, why not?

Speaker 2 (02:31:44):
Because the car has not expired that they just didn't
charge me last month, so they wanted to charge me
double this month, which what I've.

Speaker 3 (02:31:50):
Heard all nets out the same. But I'm like, wait, why, why,
why did that happen? Why are they doing that?

Speaker 2 (02:31:56):
Because there's there's gotta be something behind it. Yeah, that's
gonna screw me over at some point. Not to be
a one upper.

Speaker 10 (02:32:02):
But and I do not want to say the company
out loud because it's a local company I have, like
you and kids, here's some financial advice. Automate everything. Therefore
you don't have late fees and payments missed, so automate everything.
There's a company that I have a service through locally
that every six months they do what you just said

(02:32:24):
the cable company did where they just don't take the
payment out of the bank account. And I've been in
business with them for like four years now and it
happens like clockwork every six months and their excuses they
change systems, but what it allows them to do is
charge you a late fee because you missed the payment.
I didn't miss the payment. You did miss you didn't
take it out of my account. We have an agreement

(02:32:46):
that this is automated, and it's an hour on the phone.
It's like, hey, it's twenty bucks at the end of
the day. Like I think you're probably the same way.
I'll take an hour of my day over twenty dollars, right,
give me my hour back. But don't just do this
six months and then big oo ullulu change systems again
like clockwork. No one's protecting the consumer. That's my point today.

Speaker 3 (02:33:09):
Yell at the clouds with us.

Speaker 2 (02:33:11):
Please do uh before I let you go, yep, or
before I let myself go, because you have four hour shows. Indeed,
over under eleven and a half interceptions thrown for Utah's offense,
which will be Devin Dampier.

Speaker 5 (02:33:24):
I'm gonna go over twelve last year in New Mexico.

Speaker 10 (02:33:27):
Okay, Coach Witt and we do have some new sound
talked about the wide receivers today.

Speaker 5 (02:33:33):
We've been waiting and he's giving us names.

Speaker 10 (02:33:36):
I just I am going to be the guy, and
I'm not usually this guy, but I'm going to be
the guy that's going to be very hesitant to anoint
this team after I've seen them play for a couple
Like I say this every year, observation on conclusion for
me three to four weeks and then boom, let's get
non com behind us. You know, the non con for
Utahs and that tough this year, and then let's kind

(02:33:57):
of understand exactly what we're looking at. But based off
of all of the unknown, It's like the thing about
the past couple of years, we.

Speaker 5 (02:34:02):
Knew who Cameron Rising was.

Speaker 10 (02:34:04):
We knew like the majority of this team coming back
offensively what they had. I still don't know, and I'm
not sure that anybody does. So I'll go over, but
only because I'm just skeptical based off of all.

Speaker 5 (02:34:16):
The things about this team. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (02:34:18):
By the way, Over puts you in the bottom half
of the conference. Last year, under puts you in the
top you tied for seventh, there's like a three four
It would have been a four way tie for seventh.

Speaker 3 (02:34:29):
So we'll see how it plays out.

Speaker 10 (02:34:33):
If they're in middle of the road, big twelve offensive team,
I think it's a win, a different championship game pro exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:34:40):
That's the conclusion we keep coming to on these offensive numbers,
no doubt. All Right, stay tuned for the drive. Thanks
for listening today. We'll do it again tomorrow on The
Sean o'com Show. ESPN seven hundred ninety to ONEFM, proud
part of Utah's ESPN Radio Network.