Swan Song

Chris and Mike discuss the Columbo episode where Peter Falk was in danger of being overshadowed by his co-star when Johnny Cash stars as a gospel singer who's under the thumb of Ida Lupino as she's lording over him being prosecuted under the Mann Act.

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Episode Transcript

(00:23):
Welcome to the Shabby Detective, yetanother Colombo podcast, As if the world
needed another Columbo podcast. Regardless,I'm your host, Mike White. Joining
me, of course, is misterChristashue. I prefer to be introduced as
chili aficionado Christashue and then subsequently squirrelchili Officionado Christashue, because that explains it,

(00:46):
as Colombo so aptly puts it.I don't think I would have a
problem with squirreled chili. In adifferent time and place, Columbo was sitting
on his backboard shooting at squirrels witha twenty two. Okay, that's all
I'm saying. Colombo is not aboveeating wrote it. We are talking about
the seventh episode of the third seasonof Colombo. We're talking about Swan Song.

(01:07):
This is another one that was directedby Nicholas Cola Santo aka Coach from
Cheers aka a whole bunch of otherthings from a story by Stanley Ralph Ross,
who gave us the incredible any OldPort in a Storm, and we'll
definitely be talking about some similarities withthose. Teleplay by David Rafael or Ray

(01:30):
Feel. It stars the one andonly Johnny Cash as Tommy Brown. This
came out on March third, nineteenseventy four. It is ninety four minutes
long, and boy, oh boy, there are a lot of parts in
here where I just go, thisis ninety four minutes long. I love
this episode, but man oh man, there are a couple things that could
really have fallen on the cutting roomfloor without any problem. And I say

(01:53):
that as a huge fan of JohnRandolph, a huge fan of SCO.
But man oh man, those scenesdid not necessarily need to be here.
So, Chris, what did youthink of swan Song? So I will
say that as the penultimate episode ofseason three, they're definitely trying to close

(02:15):
the season out, at least withthis episode on a high note. I
haven't seen Johnny Cash in a lotof things. I've seen Johnny Cash performing
a lot of music, but Ihaven't seen Johnny Cash doing a lot of
non musical things as in acting.I know Johnny Cash from his music,
and so for me that was theentry point for Johnny Cash. And when

(02:38):
I saw, oh my god,this is a Johnny Cash episode of this
show, I was very excited becauseas similar toly to yourself, probably you've
already mentioned you like Johnny Cash affairamount. I am someone who a certain
time and place in my life,I was really into Johnny Cash's music and
I still like his music. Ithink Johnny Cash is a fantastic musician and

(03:00):
an interesting human being. And alsothanks to a movie like Walk the Line,
we get something like Walk Hard,which is pretty much just sending up
Johnny Cash's life in a lot ofways. That being said, he makes
wearing black look fucking cool in away that like all the people of Hot

(03:20):
Topic, all the goths, allthe emo kids, all the anybody is
looks at Johnny Cash and goes,this guy makes wearing black look flawless and
easy in a way that like itnever made sense for him to wear anything
else. It always made sense thathe was the man in black, and
that was his thing. Well youknow why you weren't right for the trodden
and the beaten down? Yes,exactly. Yeah, it was all about

(03:45):
the prisoners and stuff, which,right, such a great cause to have,
especially at that time before Nellie Blind. Great, she's doing a lot
of good things and stuff, butprisons, man, if you don't watch
those things, if they're not reformedand kept on the street and narrow,
they just become fucking shawshank before youknow it. Yeah, it's true.
In the state of Nebraska, Iwant to say, a couple years ago,

(04:05):
we had to vote as to whetheror not we would I believe it
was pay the inmates that are workingfor their work as opposed to them essentially
just being slaves. And it waslike, yeah, I think we're good
with no longer supporting slavery, staterun slavery. Yes, good, no
more of that. So all ofthat to say, Johnny Cash is someone

(04:26):
that I really think highly of asa musician. Like you mentioned, I
also think very highly of him asa human being. His character in this
episode is really hard to hate.They almost have to go out of their
way to make you hate him,going as far as making him like essentially
like a pedi aste and not essentiallyhe is a pediast. I Lupino hints

(04:46):
at it multiple times and then youmore or less see him doing it.
His naughty ways are no longer reformednow they're out in the open because he
doesn't have a wife anymore, whichis fine. Like again, like they
have to make us hate someone whois just so goddamn cares. I think
that's the problem here. I reallyliked this episode, but he's too charismatic
to be in this episode is theproblem. Like he's too good. Imagine

(05:10):
if they got Jerry Lee Lewis tobe that role, it would just fit
in with his persona so well,that's the thing, like Johnny Cash.
Never was there ever a word utterednegatively about Johnny Cash around young people.
Johnny Cash was one of those fewartists that didn't have an Elvis style I'm
gonna marry you when you're sixteen,okay, and then they didn't have sex

(05:31):
until they were eighteen. Sure,sure, And like you said, Jerry
Lee Lewis or fucking Chuck Berry orso many even the Beatles had a song
about like how the girl's too youngand that's something to go after it.
None of that ever with Johnny Cash, and so it's funny that they have
to make him as they have totake it as far as they can to

(05:53):
make him unlikable, and I don'tthink it succeeds. I think Johnny Cash
is imminently likable, and that's aproblem that this episode can never get around.
As much as I love Peter falkIs Colombo, which he's great here,
Johnny Cash is so good. It'sjust give me a show of just
him doing the thing. Just don'tmake him a pedirass, please, please,

(06:15):
just not that one thing. Whatabout you? What about you?
You spent way more time at thisepisode than I have as we're recording it.
It is just having its fiftieth anniversary. When I would talk about Colombo
with my one of my best friends, cheft On Lap, we very much
bond over the show and we wouldalways talk about this episode, and a

(06:38):
lot of it is just because JohnnyCash is so freaking cool, and yet
it's very tough to hate him,even after he murders his wife and woman
who he was also fooling around with, who was like sixteen at the time.
Yeah, after he murders them,and after he's just I guess I
shouldn't have this groupie who's hair atmy dressing room door. Okay, yeah,

(07:01):
I guess I'll do That'll stay onthe straight and narrow because I had
a Lupino wants me to. Evenafter all that, it is clear and
obvious that Johnny Cash's talents as thecharacter of Tommy Brown are being wasted on
this gospel bullshit. The women arethrowing themselves at him in a way that

(07:24):
these kinds of people could only dreamof. And these kinds of people I'm
talking about you, Joel Ostein motherfuckersout there like you guys, don't the
kind of people that throw themselves atyou are the kind of people that wouldn't
be doing it out in public.No, the only way we can make
this make sense is let's not makehim a musician. Let's make him a
gospel musician who is bristling at thefact that he has to be a gospel

(07:46):
musician. And I absolutely love thatabout this episodes. The funniest aspect of
this episode is like, yeah,no, shit, there's women throwing themselves
at him. If you were thisguy, you too would be like,
hell no, I don't want tokeep doing gospel music. I was so
surprised. So this song to mewas from this episode the whole I saw
the Light and I love that atone point Columbus talking with him and he's,

(08:09):
oh, you start and end allyour shows with this song. And
it's cool that the movie starts,this episode starts and ends with this song,
and I think you get it atleast once in the middle, I
was like, Oh, that's anice thing. Color me shocked when I
finally bought a cassette tape because that'show old I am. Cassette tape of
Hank william senior songs and I sawthe light was on there and I was

(08:33):
like, that wasn't an original songfor Colmbroe and it wasn't a Johnny Cash
song. I was like, whatsomebody else did this song? And then
I was like, oh my god, this song existed before the episode did.
That's amazing. It's a very gospelIt's a very gospely tune, isn't
it. Yeah? Oh yeah,yeah. And I know because again doing

(08:56):
research and having listened to Johnny Cashback in the I know that Johnny Cash
and Elvis and a lot of theseartists were doing gospel music because that's just
an easy way to make money.But yeah, again, can you imagine
a universe where Johnny Cash is agospel singer? Come on, that guy
walks out on stage. Nobody's believingthat this guy's singing gospel, Like,

(09:18):
not one iota of belief. That'syeah, it's a gospel singer. Like
it's wasted. He's always wasted.If that's the expectation. Yeah, I
saw the light as like a prettypretty fit. Isn't that the name of
that Hank Williams biopic with a Lokiplaying? Yeah? Yeah, oh boy.
Paul Schreeder worked for years to geta documentary, or not a documentary,

(09:41):
a narrative film about Hank Williams Seniorout there, and he never did.
I wonder if he bristles now whenhe thinks about the Tom Eddleston one,
which I never saw. I don'tknow. It could be a great
movie, but I just had nointerest in seeing yet. I haven't heard
anything about it since it came out, and it's been out for almost a
decade now. Yeah, I'm afan of country music and country musicians.

(10:03):
Johnny Cash is such it's his own. I know he's country, but it's
outlaw country. It's very different.It's a very different kind of country.
I just do love that. Like, the way to get us to this
point with this episode is he's agospel singer, because it allows him to
interact with Ida Lupino, who isjust h just the worst of all the

(10:24):
people we've seen in this show.She might be the one who deserves to
get it the most out of anybodywe've seen up until this point, Like,
straight up, she understood the brief. She knows exactly what she's doing.
And yeah, Ida Lupino, she'sso great. I don't know if
you're familiar with a lot of herwork, but I just saw her in
Roadhouse recently, not the Patrick Swayzeor Jake Gillon Hall film, but the

(10:48):
other one. She is so goodin that. And she was one of
the few female directors for a longtime, and especially made it through the
entire film noir era directings as wellas starring in them. Hats off the
Idledupino and yeah, she just oh, you just want to smack her.
She's awful. Speaking of things thatwe talk about frequently, she was the

(11:11):
only woman to direct an original episodeof the original Twilight Zone. That's right,
holy shit, Yeah, yeah,it's crazy. Right, Yeah,
she no, And you're right,we say that often. She understood the
assignment. She really did, becauseshe is I don't want to say this
any other way, and I'm usingthis term because I've heard this term before,
but she is the epitome of acastrating bitch in this episode in just

(11:35):
the way that like that scene whereshe's talking with Johnny Cash and Nanny Cash
as what like six three six,where he is a big guy, right
she is five t four or fivefive. Maybe she tears his ass down.
First off, unbelievable that they're together. The only reason they're together is
because she sees the value of him. It's clear that as a completely loveless

(11:56):
affair. But the amount of malicethat she had towards him as that scene
builds, the scene where you kindof get an idea of what is going
on is hilarious because she is sucha bitch, like just and what about
all those women? What about whenyou were walking around with them with the
glasses and the fake names. It'slike, holy shit, how many times

(12:18):
have they gone around the Bend withthis conversation? Like not just once or
twice is what it feels like.What is interesting too that Johnny Cash,
even though he's not Johnny Cash,he's Tommy, he still chose or they
outfitted him. And I think itwas probably his choice to wear all black
because he could have gotten away fromJohnny Cash and gone more into this Tommy

(12:41):
Yut persona, but he just byhim being clad and black, he stays
Johnny Cash, which is amazing thatan outfit can change a person that much.
You're probably right, I would assumeJohnny Cash is I'm wearing black Okay,
mister Cash, you're just gonna cometo the set every day dressed and
ready to go. Then yep,pretty much. I believe that. I

(13:03):
will say, to talk about theepisode more specifically, I love how little
the people who work on the showunderstand about how airplanes work. You cannot,
in any universe, just gonna mentionthis, you cannot jump out of
a fucking airplane that's crashing into theground and survive it. That's not how
motion works, it's not how energyworks. Don't you know that if you're

(13:26):
in an elevator and somebody cuts thecable and it's falling totally that at the
last minute you can just jump upand you'll avoid being hurt. On this
episode of MythBuster, that's what itfeels like. It's that same fucking hokey
ass physics question where it's theoretically you'reright, but the idea that someone could

(13:48):
time it that perfectly because the ideathat Johnny Cash, Okay, so he
gets in this airplane shades of BigBopper, shades of John Denver goes in
the airplace to fly over the mountainsto get to la airplane crashes intentionally and
he parachutes out ahead of time,but has to make it seem like he

(14:11):
didn't have a parachute, which isthe literal only logical con like, that's
the problem with this episode. Theliteral logical conclusion is you had to have
gotten out of the plane before itcrashed. Nobody, not the t not
the NTSB who ends up being inthis episode for a while. There's no
way that they would look at youand believe you. They'd be like,
you had to have gotten out ofthe plane ahead of time. You could

(14:35):
not have jumped out as it careenedinto the ground. It's having a real
hard time getting a bead on this. John Danner as Roland Payingborn, the
NTSB guy, the investigator. Ishe smart? Is he not smart?
Is he just too fish? Andwhat's the story with this guy? Because

(14:56):
he doesn't catch everything that Columbo catches. Obviously Columbus fricking genius, But I
guess he seems to be doing apretty good job, just not as good
of a job as Colombo does.I would say that he's terrible at his
job, because anybody who would beconvinced that this guy survived that. I
really liked this episode, but Ihave a hard time with the way he

(15:18):
kills his wife and that woman becauseit's just so fucking hokey. It's shockingly
the hokiest the show has ever gottenwith how people are murdered because it almost
and not almost, it defies thelaws of physics. And again I'm not
saying like what happens defies the lawsof physics, but his explanation would defy

(15:39):
the laws of believable physics and realitybecause there's no way they wouldn't believe he
got out ahead of time. Realistically, what would happen here is he would
probably get away with it because theycouldn't prove it. As terrible as that
sounds, this would be one thatI find a hard time with Colombo solving.

(16:02):
The only way he's able to solveit is because this guy had to
kill them the way that he didso that Columbo can solve it, right,
That's what this feels like. Itfeels intentionally contrived because that's the only
way to bring Colombo into this airplanecrash. My point being they could have
done literally anything else, literally,anything else, and it wouldn't feel so

(16:23):
insanely contrived. I'm okay with thecontrivances. I'm okay with breaking the laws
of physics. I'm really okay withthat. It's a lot of bullshit to
just get to these two people beingmurdered, and like you mentioned, it's
a lot of time spent getting there. And you mentioned as well, like

(16:44):
this episode is an hour and thirtyeight minutes. It doesn't need to be
Like it is a fun and interestingepisode that doesn't need to be twenty minutes
longer than everything else we've watched almostthis season. So after Columbo's on the
scene, and yeah, you're right, it does take a while for the
murder to have it no more thanothers. I suppose about twenty twenty five

(17:07):
minutes. Yeah, I guess someof them take place within fifteen minutes.
Just well that's when they don't havethe additional fifteen minutes, you know.
Right, But that scene with VictorScotti, that that whole thing where he's
trying to sell him a plot ina graveyard that just goes on forever,
and it contradicts I think some peopleare like Colombo says that he doesn't do

(17:33):
the shopping. That is, hiswife does the shopping. But yet we've
already seen an episode where he talksabout how he does all the shopping.
It was the Robert Culpe one.Yeah what is you look like? You
know what you're doing in a store, my friend. But I suppose he's
just lying to Scuti saying, Hey, my wife makes all the decisions,
because that's what I would do ifI was in the same boat, if

(17:56):
my wife wasn't around, and I'mbeing approached by somebody who's trying to do
the hard cell and be like,oh, yeah, no, I gotta
check with the wife. She doesall the big shopping decisions. Yeah,
he's just trying to get out ofit. But it's a good scene in
unto itself, but it just doesn'tbelong in this episode. We've talked about
like Columbo noss of the show orthe Peter Falkness of the show. I

(18:18):
don't know. Would you consider thatto be one of those scenes where it's
just like Peter Falk and his pals? Oh yeah, I mean because yeah,
because we've seen him on these episodes. Now, like what this is
like his third or fourth appearance.Your assumption and my assumption are the same
man, which is this is thatthing that we've talked about before where it's

(18:38):
like Columbo with his fucking small check. Again, I don't have any issue
with it, but again we aresitting and talking of I don't have any
issue with more Columbo. Let meget this straight. Just like my love
of The X Files, I lovesome of the worst episodes of The X
Files because it's just more Moulder andScully and Colombo is the same thing.
It's just more Columbo. What's notthe love? How sitting and doing what

(19:00):
we're doing here, we have tobe a little bit more subjective than we
would be otherwise. And I thinkto your point and to the point that
we've been making through while watching thisshow, there are some things in the
show that just exists to Playkate peterfulk seemingly, and nothing wrong with that,

(19:21):
but it does slow the episodes downto a fucking crawl, like a
like stand all the momentum that theepisode has slams into a brick wall,
and they've done it a couple timesnow and again, not that it's bad,
it's just I wouldn't be doing thatsolely just because in the scene with

(19:42):
John Randolph at the Army base orsorry, air force base. It's to
me. I love the scene.I love that Randolph is just kind of
unhinged. He just seems a littlecrazy at times. You get a little
bit of information in that scene asfar as oh yeah, yeah, I

(20:03):
remember that guy, and then hestarts to talk about him and Columbos again,
No, that's not the same guy. Oh oh he turned into a
gospel singer. Oh jeez. Andyou get a little bit of the parachute
stuff introduced there. But really,just cutting to the guy folding the parachute
is way more. That's totally it. It could just be one line of

(20:26):
dialogue. Oh yeah, he heflunked out of so and so, but
he was a great He ended uppacking parachutes for people for six months or
something at whatever air Force base.Just one line. That's all you need,
exactly. But now let's have afifteen minute diversion into it instead.

(20:48):
This is me admitting how stupid Iam. I didn't realize so Lucille Meredith
is in here as Gene the seamstress, the woman who makes all the robe
for the singers. I didn't realizeever, And I've been watching this episode
for honestly, probably forty five years, maybe a little bit less than that,

(21:11):
because I wasn't that aware when Iwas like five years old watching this,
but this has been around. Inever connected that she sews the robes
for the chorus for the choir,and that it's though that material for the
robes is what they made the parachuteout of. I never, never until

(21:37):
yesterday, two days ago when Irewatches, didn't make that connection. So
when she opens up and that's aweird shot too, When she opens up
the cupboard, it seems like it'salmost like slow motion or something. I'm
like, whoa, what just happenedhere? But she opens up the cupboard
and there's no bolts of fabric inthere, and like, oh, that's
really strange. Oh no, Ididn't order enough. And I'm like finally

(22:00):
clicked, Oh okay, now Iget it. So stupid I felt so
Dumbochris, I wouldn't. I don'tthink this episode does a very good job
of explaining some of the stuff.Again, I think it gets bogged down
in some unnecessary We've talked about thisbefore. The show sometimes just goes a
bunch of different directions as red herringsto lead us astray, so that again

(22:22):
we're not just given the one thing, and it's the one thing, and
Columbo follows the one thing, andthat's what it is. The show has
got to give us some false leadsto go down, but this one doesn't
really have any It really is justand Columbo finds out that he was in
the military, and then Columbo findsout he knows how to do the parachute.
And then Columbo goes and talks tothe seamstress and that's it. And

(22:48):
here's the other thing. Johnny Cash, who's had plenty of time to cover
this up, didn't go and retrievethe parachute. It's like, how hard
are you trying to not be caught? My friend is your concause? And
that's at the end. They kindof lead on this idea that, oh,

(23:10):
hey, maybe I'm not all bad. And that's the thing. I
don't think he is all bad.He's almost I mean, I think we
said it recently with Donald Pleasant's beingone of the more sympathetic antagonists on the
show, this might be the mostsympathetic antagonist. Again, you gotta remove
the pedi asty, but you can't. But outside of that, he is

(23:32):
the most sympathetic character on the show. But again, Donald Pleasant's character murders
his brother by cooking him to death. You tell me these are not I'm
not saying that there's any parody betweentheir crimes, but again that we're talking
murder anyway you cut it. Withthis show, it's just how bad are
they before they murder someone is reallyor how bad do they conduct themselves after

(23:52):
the fact. And Johnny Cash seemsonce we get to the moment where he
realizes what's going on and Columbo's gothis number, he seems somewhat Yeah,
he seems relieved, and it doesn'tseem like he was trying to get away
that hard. No, And Ithink he even says, I'm almost glad
you caught me, because I wouldhave confessed at some point. Yeah,

(24:14):
the end of the episode is reallywhere I feel the writer coming back into
this, because this episode, toyour point, ends almost exactly the same
as any old port in the storm, to the point of them both being
in a car and both like enjoyinga moment together. Columbos, I'll drive
you down, and he's got theradio going, and Tommy's Jo the same

(24:38):
shit like here, let me havekid gloves with you, Like it's weird
because he doesn't have kid gloves withJack Cassidy, and he doesn't really have
kid gloves with Robert Kolp, buthe really does with Donald Pleasance big time.
I wonder how much of that isfall how much of it is the
writers? What is it? So? I feels like it's the writer's choice

(25:03):
when it comes to that. OnStanley, Ralph Ross worked on like you
said, any Old Port, Soand you know what, I think that
this is. I think that ina lot of ways, this is as
I think it's as good of anepisode, similarly to any Port gets bogged
down in the way that the killerkills people overtaking, it becomes its own

(25:27):
thing in the story. There's themoment that I really like in this episode.
So Colombo goes to Johnny Cash's kindof a state and this is the
scene with the oh what's in thischili? Oh squirrel, which is a
great scene. They go inside ofhis house and it's the first time Columbo
gets him, and I really forsure thought it was going to be the

(25:49):
thing that caught him. It's theyour guitar wasn't with you, and Johnny
Cash has the funniest fake it's gottabe fake, but the the way Cash
plays it when when Colombo is like, oh, it's really lucky then that
it wasn't there, and Cash like, well, look at the guitar.
Look at the guitar. Here yousee how the guitar is put together with
the glue, and it's this islike the best worst lie you've ever seen

(26:12):
someone tell where he's he believes thatPeter Falk buys it one. But there
is no fucking universe where Colombo isbuying your special guitar with the glue.
But I really loved that scene becauseyou actually get to see Johnny Cash think
on his feet. But it doesn'thappen a lot in this episode. It
really doesn't, which feels like ashame. They're so amicable back and forth

(26:34):
that there's like the animosity that we'veseen towards some of these other people is
not here. I think he callshim his little buddy at one point,
does literally his little buddy. Theway he says Colombo's name is just funny
and I wish I could impersonate it, but just the he puts some emphasis
on the wrong salable when he saysit, and it's just what, how

(26:56):
are you saying? Oh? Okay, it's just a little off, but
it's just very distinct. I justlove that he calls him his little buddy.
The height disparity between the two menis obvious. They don't have to
make Johnny Cash look big. He'sa big fucking dude. But him and
Peter Falk standing next to each other, it's just adorable. He is his
little buddy. That's the thing.It's almost a shame that Johnny Cash murdered

(27:18):
somebody in this episode because him andPeter Falk have such good chemistry together.
They feel like a genuine like fringe. There's like a genuine like friendship being
struck up between the two of them. It's just too bad Johnny Kash had
to murder someone to get Colombo towalk through his front door. From what
I understand, the idea of JohnnyCash in a show like this was so
appealing that there was even talk ofhim being a private eye on another seventies

(27:42):
private eye show, but that nevereven I don't think it even made it
to pilot. Unfortunately, I wouldhave watched that. Here's the thing,
you're fucking here. Here's where I'mgonna get crucified, but I'll do it
willingly. In this one episode,I think Johnny Cash has better screen presence
than Elvis did in any of thoseElvis movies I've seen. You can see
that he commands the fucking screen.Johnny Cash is just he's a big dude,

(28:07):
and he's there and he just it'snatural. It doesn't feel like a
put on. If you told mehe's just playing Johnny Cash and this,
I sood be like okay, becauselike he pretty much is. I've never
seen Five Minutes to Live, themovie that where I think he has a
lot bigger role, but I wouldlike to. But that was also made
twenty years before this, and hehad a lot of time to practice.

(28:30):
And Johnny Cash was everywhere in theseventies, like it was amazing. Country
music was a lot more closer toregular mainstream culture, like you could see
the Oakridge Boys all over the placeor alabib. Yeah, like these things

(28:52):
broke through and it wasn't even likethey broke through into popular cultures that they
were just embraced by popular culture.And like you look at in the nineteen
seventies, and you look at thingslike Johnny Cash. I think I think
he was because I know he andElton John were on the same episode a
Saturday Night Live, and they switchedclothes at one point. So when Johnny

(29:17):
Cash introduces Elton John, He's wearingElton John's outfit, and Elton John's wearing
his outfit on stage, which ishilarious. That sounds amazing. That would
lead me to believe that Johnny Cashmight have been the guest star, not
the guest musician, because you're notgonna have two guest musicians, so that
I need to track that down.But like he was all over the place,

(29:40):
Willie Nelson was all over the place, Merle Haggard, What was George
Jones devil went down to Georgia guy, Charlie Daniels, Charlie Daniels. I
could see his face with his hat. Yeah, George Jones. Yeah,
Johnny Rebel or not Johnny Rebel,Johnny paycheck is now it take this job
and shove it? Yeah, ohyeah, yeah. Even like Harper Valley,

(30:02):
Pta was a popular song and itwas a TV movie with Barbara Eden
in it. The seventies was alsothe time of like trucking culture being a
big thing, a quake country musicand like trucker culture not not no truckers,
like truckers. If you're listening tothis, I don't assume you'll listen
to country music. But that timeand place it was like there was like

(30:25):
that crossover. And yeah, aseventies. I know people always say,
what's the time you would have likedto have been alive? That's so culturally
interesting. Everybody always shits themselves atthe eighties, but the seventies were where
it was at man like big time. The just look at what they're wearing,
what Johnny Cash is wearing, likethe jean jacket and stuff, like,
it's that time and place in Americais like I would have loved to

(30:49):
have been alive for what you're talkingabout, like the music and stuff.
I know that other shit was shitty, but the music and the culture was
right there like country. You're right, I don't think country music has ever
been his mainstream. Maybe in thenineties, maybe in the night with like
Tim McGraw and stuff, but itstill felt like it was its own thing.
Like you had your bootscoot and boogiesand your line dancing and these kind

(31:12):
of things. But in the seventiesyou had I'm watching morning television on the
Great Space Coaster and they're doing asegment and it's all set to it's about
a rodeo, and it's Mama,don't let your babies grow up to be
cowboys, and they've got like RyanstoneCowboy was a mainstream head Electric Cowboys starring

(31:33):
Robert Redford, and here we goWillie Nelson. That was a big hit.
I was going to say, wedidn't even mention Willy, which feels
like a shame, but and hehad a movie career, a music career.
Again, he showed up. Andso many of these people that we
were mentioning are showing up on thingslike the fucking Muppet Show. So that's
where I'm being exposed to some ofthem. The Redheaded Stranger. Wouldn't that
have been great if Willy Nelson hadshowed up on Colombo? Oh yeah.

(31:59):
I can't say I'm a big fanof country music, but when I went
down to Nashville, I went tothe Country Music Hall of Fame, and
that was amazing. And you're talkingabout like trucker music, and they had
a whole section that was just aboutTrucker Music, A W. McCall,
baby fucking Red soviaing up the assMan. It was fucking great. And

(32:19):
then they had a whole thing aboutyeah, outlaw country, and they had
all Johnny Cash was huge, andall of these guys were just such groundbreaking
acts and Willy ties together like PatsyKline and more like the grand old Oppry
type of singers and stuff. Becausehe's writing songs before he gets his own
solo career. And then you havesomebody like who I'm surprised never shows up

(32:43):
on the show, though I'm assuminghe doesn't. I'm assuming you would have
mentioned it if he had someone likea Chris Christofferson who also big screen presence.
But in the barbar streisand version ofWhat's Star is Born? A Star
is Born? I always forget whatthe version that version's title is. I
guess it's always the same. Butyeah, it's not the Rose that's a
thing like that was a thing inthe seventies, So yeah, it's not

(33:07):
so much with country music anymore.But also country music is what is country
music now? I think is thequestion that everybody seems to ask and the
answers don't. I think maybe inthe seventies, the answer was a little
bit more obvious what country music is. And I think now similarly with like
movies and TV show not wanting tobe put into a genre box. Now,

(33:30):
so much country music is other things, and country music like Jelly Roll,
who's fantastic, or one of myfavorites who's very similar to Johnny Cash
and Chris Christofferson is Orville Peck whodoes like a he's a gay country musician
who wears a tasseled mask and sings, Oh that guy, okay, gay
country music. It's fucking amazing.Shure up as a guest on RuPaul Okay,

(33:53):
cool, awesome, He's amazing.I don't know if he played any
of his music. He's amazing.His music's amazing, and he is like
that logical progression of the Johnny Cashof like taking the music and doing something
unique with it as opposed to justregurging bootscoot and boogie for the ninetieth time.
But Johnny Cash has the thing thatso many country music performers don't have

(34:15):
now, which is like a genuinescreen presence. And this is a human
being who is interesting as who heis on top of everything else. Because
like his life story is interesting,but he also has an amazing career too.
So I forgot about the Mandrell sisters. I've talked to you about variety
shows in the seventies and just howthey were fucking everywhere and weird acts like

(34:39):
Shields and Yarnel, the two Mimes. They got their own show, of
course, like Sonny and Cher andjust all of these people had shows.
Barbara Mandrel and the Mandrell sisters hadtheir own show. So there's a country
act who's mainstream enough to support aweekly variety show for however long that they
did it. Hopefully they're not partof the one season show. Again,

(35:01):
like if they're basing movies off ofthese country singers lives, like they must
have made an impact. Again,we mentioned Tom Hidleston playing Hank William Senior.
You mentioned Joaquin Phoenix playing Johnny Cash. I'm sure before my lifetime is
done, we'll see god knows whatelse. Technically Elvis. I don't know
what anyone would consider Elvis other thanElvis. But Elvis had country in him

(35:24):
as much as he had anything else. Yeah, that's the thing, the
time and the place for Johnny Cashto be on Colombo these were two things
happening at the right time. Andagain, I think he's good in the
episode. I just wish it wasn'tso airplane heavy like I wish it had
been maybe like the tour bus orsomething. He sabotage is a tour bus,

(35:45):
something that felt a little bit morerooted in music, to be fair,
because I'm sure there's somebody pounding thetable right now going what about the
Big Bopper? I get it.I get that that's what they were getting
at. That not have been notgoing through their minds when they were doing
this episode. Remember all these musicianswho have tragically died that are almost contemporaries

(36:08):
of Jommy cash. Well, that'sthe thing. I get what they were
going for. It's I maybe itmight even be in bad taste. I
don't know if anybody was getting upsetlike murdering people with an airplane while John
Denver's getting killed by flying an airplane, Jim Krosche gets killed by flying an
airplane, Like, are you sayingJim Croche as Jim Krosche? Is that

(36:30):
how you say his name? I'veonly ever heard Crocy, But you could
be totally right. So I nowI need to find this out. Man,
that's funny. Is this like aIs this like a Jim Nabors is
way cool thing? Nobody would saythat. No, I'm definitely not saying
that. No, that's interesting.I'll have to look up how other people

(36:51):
say. And because I've only everheard my mom say his name, so
I could be living in a lie. But he died in an airplane.
So that's that's always like the thingis musicians airplanes. I mean fucking Stevie
ray Vaughn. Again, Like ifthat's why they set this in an airplane,
I one hundred percent understand then,But I don't know if that feels

(37:12):
a little on the nose, givenhow many artists at the time are eating
shit in airplanes. I mean,skinnered man. September twentieth, nineteen seventy
three is when Jim krosche or Kroscheyor however we're pronouncing it dies. Okay,
this episode comes out March third,nineteen seventy four, like a little
less than a year later. That'smy point. It's it's a little on

(37:36):
the nose. The airplane is thecrux of this. There's always those other
like little things that could colombo,those little details that he can't close up
the case. His bosses always botherand I'm what about Oh geez, I
gotta ask this question. I'm sosorry, But the questions in this one
just aren't that point itt. Andto your point, Johnny Cash can think

(38:00):
on his feet fast enough that I'mtalking about the guitar or hey, you've
got this. I've got this recordingof I Saw the Light, which is
different than this other one. Andyou wrote a new part for this girl,
and you did that a week beforethe other girl died. I liked
her singing better. And yes,I've been working on that. He just

(38:22):
has an explanation ready to go.That's how he is for so many of
these things. But to your point, those little details just don't add up
to hell of beans in this one. No, once he finds out it
has to be the parachute, thenit has to be the parachute, and
that is the singular focus. Andagain we as the audience, know that

(38:44):
it was the parachute, not sayingthat this might be the one time that
the format of Colombo gets in theway of Colombo. But it might again.
But the problem is, it's afucking airplane. Crashing out of the
sky like it's just I say lost. People aren't surviving because like a magical

(39:04):
fucking bullshit. We're supposed to believeJohnny Cash, what he tells the police
that he expects them to believe ishe jumped out at the moment the plane
crashed. Oh, actually, hewas thrown out because he didn't have a
seatbelt on, thrown through the frontwindow of the plane. That's why seatbelts
are dangerous. Man. Oh okay, I knew it. Big government has
been telling us to wear these seatbelts, and they just won us murdered.

(39:29):
Big seatbelt. Huh, big seatbelt. I've heard Detroit is the
home of big seat belt. Ohyeah, big seat belt rules this city.
That's right, because they don't evenconcede that he jumped out. Their
contention is that he didn't have hisseatbelt on, and because he didn't have
a seatbelt on, he was thrownclear of the crash safely Does that work

(39:52):
in car crashes? Has anyone heardof someone not wearing their seatbelt being ejected
through the window into an intersection andjust standing up a going I'm fine,
I'm good again. It's just likeso boguss to me, like, again,
like the base conceit of the episode, I'm sure someone's gonna be like,
this guy just can't deal with it. But it is so hokey that

(40:14):
I can't get out of the wayof it. It is so fucking wild.
It's funny though, because again Ithink I mentioned in the last episode
the idea that like this guy issavage, he just lets him crash and
burn alive in an airplane because they'redrugged. Mind you. Best moment of
this episode for me is Sorel Book, who is in this and he will

(40:35):
come back later in another episode.I think it's in the seventh season.
He's in the Bye Bye Sky HighIQ case. He is I think the
music arranger JJ Stringer, and hejust basically shows up to be in the
foreground as Colombo is talking to JohnnyCash in the mid ground of the shot,

(40:57):
and he's got those amazing huge roundlenses in his glasses and he's just
that little short, bald guy justtrying to look menacing in the front of
the frame. I'm like, whatare you doing, sorrow Book, what
the fuck? Boss Hog? That'sfunny? I do, I do think
it's funny. You mentioned the guyat the airport before. I would be

(41:20):
remiss if I didn't mention that hereminds me a lot of Burton Gilliam's role
from Fletch, where it's just likethis like shit heel guy who works at
the airport, because he's like,oh I loved him, he was great.
I want to let me drive hiscars. This guy fucking give this
that guy. Yeah, that guyI was talking about. John Randolpho's the
air Force dude. He's just likeColombo. Colombo has a great phone conversation

(41:46):
and he's talking about parachutes and stuff, and he's also talking to John Randolph
at the same time, and you'relike, who's he talking to? Is
he talking to randolp or is hetalking to the guy on the phone.
I really liked that moment. Butyeah, that guy that you're talking about
at the small airport, the littlewhere the plane comes in and out,
Oh my god, he is amazing. He's just yeah, oh yeah,

(42:09):
I'm such a big fan. Ohhe's a homer, big time. He's
a big time homer for Johnny Cash, shaking his hand like crazy, Oh,
I'm such a big fan. I'mlike, oh my god, call
yourself dude. Yeah, we doa Chevy Chase podcast and we'll be talking
about John Randolph in the future becausehe plays Chevy Chase's dad in Christmas Vacation.

(42:31):
Okay, great, yeah, Iknow. I actually, like I
said, I enjoyed so much ofthis episode. Man, the thing with
the glasses, the boss hog thingwith the glasses tripping me up? Is
that great? Is that great?I don't know what the point of it?
Is so good? In the studio, he's just one of those studio
hangers on. He's the guy whoprovides everybody with cocaine. Oh, there

(42:52):
you go. That's true. He'snot the arranger because the arranger just gets
a name drop and it's the director'sname but varied instead of Cola Santo.
It's no Lola Conso or something likethat. Raw they do it, but
it's oh okay. I guess theywere just dropping Nick's name in here.

(43:14):
So I guess that. The otherquestion I have, because this is the
first and probably assuming unless you tellme otherwise only time, how many episodes
of Colombo have a live musical performancein them? Ash, that's a good
question. I can't swear to theeighty nine and up episodes, but as
far as these early ones, Ithink this is it, and man,

(43:37):
oh man, there is a reallyhorrific thing where there's a tuba playing this
old man and some dancing water andstuff. If memory serves, it's pretty
awful. I literally, I knowthat you were speaking English, but I
have no idea what you just said. When we get there, you're going
to be like, oh, thisis what man, Okay, But it's

(44:01):
just wild to me that this episodehas like a full dead ass performance with
him singing that you mentioned the song. I think we need to mention it
again. It wears its welcomeb outreal quick, because it's not a Johnny
Cash song. Like you said,this episode of all the episodes, had
the least written about it in allof the Colombo books, which are found

(44:22):
to be amazing. Yeah, Iwas like, what some of the trivia
on this one is that they shota concert because they're like, Okay,
we need this concert footage, solike that whole opening and everything, we
need this concert footage. They gotthe footage back and it was basically completely
useless. So Johnny Cash is atouring musician living by his tours at this

(44:46):
point, not used to like thewhole We have a schedule, and Peter
Falkleck's to go over schedule and stuff, who to funk it right? And
his managers, Hey, Johnny's kindof lead even two days, how much
longer do you have? And they'relike four days. That's not gonna work

(45:07):
for Johnny's schedule. Also, Johnnyleaves the production, hires his own fucking
film crew and redes the concert footageand comes back to the set and says,
here you go, here's all theconcert footage that you can use.
So that was like him paying that. I don't know if it's out of

(45:27):
pocket or what, but that washim like his responsibility that all that concert
footage is. In the beginning ofthis, I was gonna ask it looks
okay when they cut to the audience, it's okay. Job. Yeah,
they try to mesh the two ofhim, and I think it's the lighting
for me that throws it a littlebit. The lighting of the audience is

(45:49):
not great lighting itself. In thewhen they're on the sound stage and you
get that star filter working overtime,Oh my god, yeah, over overtime,
good night, and hey, youknow what, Idolupino and Johnny Cash
are like Will Ferrell and Ricky Bobby. I don't know what to do with
my hands. They keep doing theseI don't know. She starts doing this

(46:13):
hand thing and then he starts mimickingit, and it's just it. I
don't know. Like that whole concertthing at the beginning is just really funny.
And to know that, like youmentioned, they spent all this time
to do it, it's like,man, all that for that, Like
he enjoyed his time and they weretalking about doing a cop show with him.
I'm like, yeah, I wouldhave watched it. Oh hell yeah,

(46:35):
there's a universe where we're covering thatinstead of covering Barney Miller or Columbo.
It probably would have been No,you still would have liked Columbo.
I wonder what that would have beenlike that would you have been like a
musician turned detective? Like would theyhave integrated the music part? That's the
thing, like how do they not? Right? Every episode ends with a
song. Yeah, oh yeah,I'll play a little song for you doing

(46:59):
this, or asked me a numberthat my mama taught me back in Tennessee.
Yeah, that'd be great. Everyepisode has like how many songs did
your mama tea. That's the thingagain. You never want your guest star
to overshadow your star of your show. They get close here, very close.

(47:21):
You think for a minute that he'sgetting away with it too, because
when it's like again another phone call, and it's like, oh, okay,
yeah, you got all the boyscouts and the forest rangers. Okay,
yeah, we'll go out and combfor that thermos tomorrow morning. Okay,
great, And then Johnny Cash is, yeah, sounds really good.

(47:42):
Sea, I'm leaving. Why waitwhat, you can't just leave this episode?
He no, I'm leaving the episode. And then the whole thing of
Colombo with the car keys when herealizes that Johnny Cash had car keys,
and that was because there's that momentway back in the early part of the

(48:02):
episode where Lupino says something about like, oh, yeah, you're not allowed
to drive or something, and he'sI could go there if I could drive,
and it's like, no, you'renot allowed to drive. So she's
got him so well healed that hecan't even drive a car. Man.

(48:22):
I assume that's because he was gettingup to lascivious things when he we're in
fake beards, right, all thefake beard she opens up a box.
All the fake beards start tossing outFoo Man Chew, Groucho marks. No,
you thought this would work, Likeyou got the skull cap and the

(48:43):
whole, like long Beard with theside curls and everything. This is when
the one exactly you've got, likethe talus and everything. Yeah, you
thought this would work. He's gotthe box that to fill in on the
head and oh man, yeah youthought any of this would work. They

(49:05):
kept saying that this weird Jewish manwas showing up over the weekends. I
do find it a little hard tobelieve that with all the time that takes
place in between when the plane crashesand when Colombo etis Johnny Cash's ass out
there with the lights, Johnny Cashwould have gone back out there, like
you would think, yeah, right. It's it's also such a cliche of

(49:28):
returning to the scene of the crime. But that's my point. When has
this show gone that cliche? Likethey tend to not. This is the
first time where I'm like, wow, like he's doing the thing. He's
going back to the thing to getthe thing that he hid. Like most
of the most of Colombo's boils inthese episodes, are much better thought out.

(49:52):
And this it's clear that Tommy Brownwas thinking about this ahead of time.
This was premeditated. This wasn't becausewe have seen some of these where
it's I just murdered him in amoment. This was like, now I
had to crush the pills and thethermost and I get to drink. They
had to open the window to keepthe plane cold so that they would drink
the thermost, and I had theparachute. This shit was beyond premeditated.

(50:15):
So the fact that he just didn'tplan what to do with the parachute,
again, all the Colombo villains upto this point are better thought out.
I just give him a pass becausehe's Johnny Cash. It's a good episode.
It's one of the better episodes thatwe've seen. I don't know if
when the show ends if it willstill be up there, but this might

(50:36):
be the first time for me wherethis is a great great guest star.
And we've had great guest stars,but this is the one where it's he's
almost too good, like we said, like he almost is too good.
Yeah. It's funny because when Ithink about this episode, I think about
Johnny Cash. I don't think aboutwhat Colombo does in this it's almost not

(50:57):
Colombo's story at all, which,to be fair, I think we've talked
about this before, is the pointof this show. Columbo realistically is the
antagonist in these stories because they're thevillains, the foils, are the ones
that we follow for most of theepisodes, So the expectation should be that
they're the heroes of their own storyat least and in a lot of ways.

(51:20):
Johnny Cash and that moment with Idelupinowhere he's like, you sanctemonious bitch,
essentially, you can see that inthis situation, outside of the fact
that they have to paint him asa PETI ass he could be somewhat justified
in doing what he's doing. Again, murder is murder anyway you cut it.
But how else was he gonna getout from underneath all of this?
That was his only course of recourse. I don't think the statute of limitation

(51:45):
on the Man Act has expired.Yeah, but Columbo is baby Glove and
a lot of these killers all ofa sudden, I don't know why,
but you want to smoke a cigar, you want to sit in the car,
you want to have a glass ofWine. All right, Colombo,
I'll tell you, hopefully you haven'twatched ahead, but next month when we
come back and talk, we aregoing to be talking about one of the

(52:07):
more interesting villains as far as whathe is and what he does when we
talk about a friend indeed, directedby Peter Falk's friend Ben Gazzara. Here
he is taking the director's chair theFriends of Fulk collection Ben Gazzara, John
Cassavetti's and I'm trying to remember thename of the Oh the guy that like

(52:30):
rented Suzanne Pluchette the boat and stuff. He's back in that particular episode and
he's got a pretty good role inthat one as well. He shows up
quite a bit, Oh val Avery, thank you. Yes, So definitely
another friend of Fulk will be inthat episode as well. Friends of Fulk
here. So until then, Chris, what are you working on these days?

(52:52):
Everything and anything that I'm working oncan be found over at weirdingwaymedia dot
com, which is the podcast networkthat you and I started with all of
our goofy friends to make fun audiodiversions that our will and should help preoccupy
you while the world continues to spinout of control. At least you can

(53:13):
take solace in the fact of knowingthat we overhear at weirding Way media are
taking our time as the world pullsitself apart to make content for you.
That's where you can go to findall the things that I work on and
all the things that I and yougive an opportunity in a place to be.
So that's where you can find me. What about you, Mike,
I'm taking a few months off.I'm working on the Chris Gaines biopic The

(53:36):
Dark aired. Australian rock star yes, oddly never seen in the same place
as another rock star from the eighties, Garth Brooks. You know that guy's
wife has a cooking show. TriciaYearwood has a un ironic cooking show on
Cooking Network on Food Network, andsometimes Garth shows up. Have I piqued
your interest yet? Yeah? God, all about it? No, don't

(54:02):
be. I never heard Chris Caanespeak. I only heard him sing,
So I want to hear Garth's Australianaccent. I'm from Australia. Until then,
I want to like John Walker forour opening theme song and Colin Gallagher
as our closing theme song artiste.I want to thank everybody for listening.

(54:22):
Thank you, especially to the folksthat take the time to review the show
wherever you happen to download it.Thank you very much. We appreciate you.

(55:08):
I wanted to do it so ageless, like feel listen. I wouldn't
let my dear say you're in theseeasess came like a strange friend to night
praise the Lord. I saw thedie. I saw the lie, and
I saw the lie. No moretalking against no more. Now I'm so

(55:32):
happy, be no sor at insidepraising some bad I saw lie taketure.

(55:55):
I wandered away, say your keepso I'm not gonna live. Man.
God gave that excided way I saw. I saw final so decided may I

(56:24):
start? I saw the son lie, so I'm so start in side made

(56:55):
that song. I start for theman. Baby that's son don't know,
don't know. I'm so happy thissullo and the signing Babe, that's all
I want. The high goble die. I saw the hang over dog.

(57:17):
There ain't no more. Now I'mso happy. Ain't no suble inside pray
the nor That's how the like.Thank your car brokers, jeerially, look,
thank you, yell you ball thanksJohn Brother, thank you Jery