December 20, 2023 • 34 mins
Sharon’s latest conversation is with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. He was elected with a record number of votes in the Commonwealth, and there is speculation Shapiro will one day run for the White House. Sharon presses the governor on the issues that matter to voters and his record of working on behalf of people of color.
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(00:01):
It's good to be with you.We begin with the cookout. It is
our thing, even a sacred thing, Black folks coming together a place of
good food, music, games,debate the most important trust. At some
point, the cookout also became alitmus test for politicians who want something from
us, who need us. Iftrusted enough, they earn that invitation,
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which is not to be taken lightly. It only comes if we sense authenticity,
not a code switch, and itis revocable. Now more than ever,
it's important to vet those who askus to give them the edge so
they can realize their dreams, usuallyhigher office. There are questions to be
asked before we cast a single ballot. What have you done for black people
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lately? What did you do three, five, ten years ago? Are
you listening to us? Who doyou take counsel from? Now's the time
to keep them honesus for your nextlocal state election. Yes, the presidential
race of twenty twenty four, butwe must start vetting beyond that the future
leaders, who, it seems,are already anointed by their respective parties and
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political machines. Those machines have treatedus as dispensable for far too long.
If we're being honest, we've allowedthat no one should be permitted to bypass
this rite of passage. Again,a job interview with Black America, especially
as we're now tightening the job requirementswith that mission in mind. I sat
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down with a rising star in theDemocratic Party, Pennsylvania, Governor Josh Shapiro.
President Obama campaigned for Shapiro, andthere are expectations that he one day
run for the White House, sowe do need to know now if his
words match his record, Governor,thanks for joining US. Governor Josh Shapiro
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Pennsylvania. I want to begin ifwe can in the Middle East. Like
President Biden, you believe there shouldbe no daylight between Israel and the United
States. When it comes to eradicatingHamas. Explain to those who may not
understand our commitment and the fallout reallyworldwide. Yeah. Absolutely, And I
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want to make clear that my focusis on eradicating Hamas a terrorist group.
And I think it's really important tonote that certainly not all Palestinians are part
of Hamas or even support Hamas,and I think it's critically important that we
understand the difference. I also thinkit's very important we should get into this
that we not allow the situation theMiddle East to be used as an excuse
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or a justification for anti Semitism,Islamophobia, anti Arab sentiment. But relative
to the question that you asked specificallyabout HAMAS, I mean you have to
understand they launched an unprovoked attack.They killed nearly fifteen hundred multinationals, the
vast majority of course being Israelis tookabout two hundred and fifty or so people
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hostage, including Americans who remain hostageto this terrorist group. Slaughtering a peaceful
concert goer, killing women and childrenand families in a kibbutz where they live.
That is terrorism, plain and simple, and I think it is on
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all of us to call out whatis so obviously wrong and what is right.
There is no moral equivalency between HAMAS, a foreign terrorist organization as designated
by the United States of America,and Israel, the only pluralistic, functioning
democracy in the Middle East. HAMASis hell bent on destroying Israel and ridding
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the region of Jews. They donot seek peace and they do not seek
any type of lasting compromise. Iwant to see this conflict end as soon
as possible, but it absolutely cannotend until hamass eradicated in these hostages or
returned safely to their homes in Israeland America or wherever they're from. You
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were criticized your initial statement that perhapslacks something the interviews that you gave in
the beginning. The Council of AmericanIslamic Relations CARE pointed to the fact of
what you didn't say. In theirview, you didn't mention Palestinians suffering in
the region. And here's what theexecutive director of CARE said, Governor,
if we truly value human rights,it is imperative that we stand in solidarity
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against violence, and that includes thePalestinians who continue to endure immense hardship.
As the governor of Pennsylvania or Pennsylvanians, do you believe that your initial statement
lacked empathy to some non Jews.No, and I want to be crystal
clear about some Sharon you keep referringto it as my initial statement. I
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have made those statements multiple times,including I think last the night before on
MSNBC, So I'm not backtracked inany way, shape or form from any
of those statements. What I havealso said, and maybe you just didn't
see that particular clip is that Icondemn the loss of all innocent lives,
and that we need to make surethat there's a clear distinction between Hamas and
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between Palestinians. There is no moralequivalency here between Hamas and Israel. And
let's also recognize that not every Palestinianis a member of Hamas, and they
do not represent all Palestinians. Israelhas a right to defend itself in the
face of this unprovoked terrorist attack.While I support Israel's right to defend herself
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against this unprovoked terrorist attack, itdoesn't mean that I support all the different
policies that Israel's engaged in, certainlynot over the last number of years under
Nata Yahu's leadership. So again,I've been entirely consistent throughout relative to that
letter that came to be from careunderstand that I have reached out and have
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had multiple dialogues with Arab community leaders, Muslim leaders, Palestinian American leaders here
in Pennsylvania. We've met here inthis office, I'm in the Governor's office
here in the Capitol, and I'veengaged in meaningful, thoughtful dialogue with them,
and I've shared with them my profoundsadness for the loss of life that
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they have experienced, the suffering thatthey and their families have experienced. And
I've also made clear that we can'tuse this as a justification for any type
of anti Arab sentiment, any Islamophobia, or any anti Semitism. And so
again my position has been clear andconsistent throughout. I do not think it's
mutually exclusive to believe that Israel isa right to defend itself, that we
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need to eradicate that region of hamasof that terrorist group, and also more
in the loss of innocent lives,and care deeply about Arab American lives and
Palestinian American lives and others. Datingcare reference that you have a long standing
history of communicating effectively with all constituents, including them. If I missed it,
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as you said, Governor, doyou think there is a disconnect and
more repair or more outreach needs tobe done. Well, We continue to
dialogue seemingly every day and having realmeaningful conversations, by the way, not
just now, but the kind ofconversations I've had over two decades in public
office with the Muslim community, withthe Arab American community, here in Pennsylvania.
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I'm going to continue to have thatdialogue, and let me be clear,
I'm going to continue to stand upto any type of aid or intelligent
intolerance pardon me, directed toward Americanjewser directed toward American Muslims or American Arabs.
I'm here in the state Capitol rightnow, and just outside my window
here the front steps sharing there wasa protest about what was happening in the
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Middle East, and I want tobe clear about something. I vehemently disagreed
with the political sentiments that were beingshared by the speakers on the capitol steps.
Yet I'll tell you what. Iwas pleased to see their peaceful demonstration
here in America, in the placefounded by William penn On, a place
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of tolerance and understanding and bringing differentperspectives together. Now, at the end
of that rally, and again onethat I fully supported occurring, even though
I disagreed with the message. Atthe end of that rally, there was
a man who approached some of thepeaceful protesters and brandished a weapon and made
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threats against them that law enforcement investigatedand within a couple days determined should be
charged as an act of ethnic intimidation. That's a word for our hate crimes
law here in Pennsylvania, and Iimmediately came out and condemn that. We
can't allow, as I said earlier, any of the situation in the Middle
East to be used as an excusefor Islamophobia or anti Semitism or any other
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type of hate in this place thatpen built. We need to find ways
to bring people together, to createa greater understanding and to stand up for
people's right to peacefully protest whether weagree or disagree with their underlying political views.
Yeah, tolerance, right, Governor. Still, hate crimes against Jewish
Americans are on the rise greatly,and I wonder what you make of that,
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how concerned you are about the safetyoverall wellbeing of Jewish Americans And what
do I believe is the root ofthis increase. Well, look, I'm
concerned about the safety and wellbeing ofall Pennsylvanians. It is also true that
we have seen a significant rise inanti Semitism. It was rising before October
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seventh, when Hamas attacked Israel,and we've seen it, almost like a
hockey stick, really escalate over thelast month or so. And there's no
excuse for that. Now we willtake action through law enforcement for different policies
and efforts in our state government.I think the public has a lot of
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responsibility here too. That's not justup to government officials to enforce. I
think we have a responsibility to knowour history. I think we have a
responsibility to understand how conflicts like thishave evolved over hundreds, in this case,
thousands of years, understanding that thereis a difference between agreement or disagreement
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with a political personality in a particularstate, country, region, and the
underlying plight or goals of a groupof people. I'm being a little bit
clumsy here. I apologize share,but what I'm going to get at here
is, you know, I amsomeone who believes in Israel's right to exist.
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I am someone who believes in atwo state solution where you have a
peaceful Palestinian country and a peaceful Israelliving side by side. And I am
someone who believes Benjamin d'taanna who hasnot been a good leader for Israel in
recent years. I don't get avote in that. I'm just giving you
my perspective. And yet I'm alsosomeone who believes that you can disagree on
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the politics you can have views onthe particular immediate political situation, but not
engage in anti Semitism, not engagein Islamophobia. We have to we have
to learn our history and and havea deeper understanding of that. So we're
not engaging those issues while still beingable to speak out strongly about our political
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views on a geopolitical issue. Yeah. I want to talk about that education
though, because it's that simple,right If you have people who have dug
in on either side of this,and there is no equivalent when you're talking
about slaughtering innocent people who are justtrying to live, breathe, celebrate.
They were celebrating in fellowship with eachother. But there is this notion that
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you know, I'm entrenched on thisside or that side. So I want
to push you to be specific ifyou can. You've got a great film
industry in Philadelphia. You have otherways to educate people. How do you
do it? Look, one ofthe things I'm trying to do is bring
more Holocaust education to our schools.I think if you don't understand the Holocaust,
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then it's very hard to understand whathappened in nineteen forty eight, the
establishment of Israel now, I wantto be very clear about something. Israel
doesn't exist because of the Holocaust.Israel existed long, over thousands of years
before that. We should know thathistory as well. But that immediate history,
that anti Semitism that was allowed topervade through Germany and through Europe and
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then turn into policies of hatred andfear and then destruction and death, is
something that didn't happen all that longago. Yet you know, study after
study seems to show that over sixtypercent of our high school kids don't know
about that. I think that's animportant place to start to understand that.
I think it's really important to understandwhat happened in nineteen forty eight after the
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UN Partition Plan, after the Palestinianswere given a homeland for them, the
Israelis given a homeland for them,and then the next day the Palestinians went
to war over that. I thinkit's important that people know that. I
think it's important to understand the historyof what's happened in Gaza and in the
West Bank, the attempts by theUnited States to make peace, attempts that
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each and every time the particular leadersleading the Palestinian people at the time from
Yaser Arafat on walked away from thepeaceful overtures that should be factored in to
how people view the current situation.I'm not suggesting Sharmon that we're all going
to agree on what the prescription isgoing forward. We're going to have disagreements.
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That's fair as long as we're havingdisagreements that aren't bringing anti Semitism,
Islamophobia, et cetera into the conversation. But in order to I think make
a thoughtful pronunciation about what direction youthink we should go in now, you've
got to understand that history. AndI'm just cited only a few examples of
the broader history that I think isreally important that people pay attention to.
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So, whether we're going to learnit in school, whether you're going to
take time to really inform yourself onthe internet, on TikTok, wherever you
go to get your news, we'vegot to make sure that people understand that
history so they make a thoughtful argumentabout the future. Yeah, there's a
history on American soil, to longstanding communal sense between the Jewish American community
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and Black Americans, to the civilrights marches and issues and fighting alongside each
other. It occurs to me andI think some of the polls Governor are
showing there seems to be an erosion. How much is debatable, But what
do you make of it? Whatcan be done to communities that do need
each other? Yeah, I'm notsure I can react to any particular poll,
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but I understand the point of yourquestion. I think you know.
We talked a moment ago, Sharonabout learning our history. Folks should study
the history of Rabbi Abraham Joshua HeschelHeschel and the great doctor Martin Luther King,
Jr. And the partnership that theyformed in order to advance the civil
rights movement, understanding that when Jewswere being attacked for being Jewish, it
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was a black community that was therethat had their back. And in the
civil rights movement, as doctor Kingwas moving that along and making progress through
governmental actions, it was Jews whowere quite literally marching alongside black leaders along
with many other people. But thatshared history, both the negative that is
being attacked for what you look like, or being attacked for how you worship
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or how you were raised, aswell as the positive progression that we have
made. That is part of ourshared history, and I think it is
something that we need to find ourway back to. It goes back to
the question you asked before about whatcan be done. I think education is
a key piece of this. I, for one, spend a significant amount
of time, you know, inour Black churches, in our Baptist churches,
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our Ame churches. And one ofthe things that I spent a lot
of time doing is not only listening, but also talking about that spirit of
Heschel and King continuing today in oursociety and using that to strengthen our communities.
Going back to what pen envision I'mnot sure he would have imagined me
sitting at this desk and you know, in the office that bears his portrait,
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but certainly he was trying to builda place that was inclusive and tolerant,
and we need to find our wayback to that. Blacks and Jews
have had that great history together andwe need to do everything we can to
experience that again. And I thinkthrough experiential learning, through textbooks, through
the Internet, that's a really importantpart of this. And I view my
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role as governor as a proud AmericanJew and as someone who oversees a comap
of thirteen million people that includes Jews, blacks, you name it. I
have to be someone that tries tolift everyone up and bring people together,
and I think education is a keypiece of that. Representative Corey Bush at
A, Missouri other leaders point tothat there seems to be this solidarity,
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not seems there is between Black Americansand Palestinian Americans who have been there for
each other through Ferguson George Floyd,and they root it in racial justice,
the fight for it, and theydeserve our support to stand up and speak
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out and not allow anyone, noteven our administration. So, okay,
the bombing of a land of people. Do you think that leaders such as
yourself were equipped to understand the manylayers of this and why there would be
this solidarity between the two communities.I certainly think I'm equipped to understand it,
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but I also recognize I'm constantly learningand evolving, and so I want
to hear from different voices in Pennsylvaniathat are going to help me through that
process. We may, at theend of those conversations, at the end
of those meetings, at the endof those sessions, have different views on
the political solutions, right, butwe should understand that history. And to
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your point, I think you usesharing the word the layers. If I'm
not mistaken, those layers are importantfor leaders to understand. I think I've
got a good feel for it,but I could always learn more. And
that's why I listen to the goodpeople of Pennsylvania. That's why I show
up in their churches. That's whyI invite different groups, whether they agree
with me or disagree with me,here to my office to talk. It's
why I go to their community centersto listen. So we have that kind
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of dialogue here in Pennsylvania, andI'm very proud of that, your openness,
your engagement. You've been on reallythe national stage for a good good
while now, Governor, and Iwonder if I could ask you perhaps a
personal question, who do you seekguidance from? You know, that is
a fair question. I seek itfrom a lot of different people and in
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a lot of different ways. AndI'm not trying to a vague question.
But I've never been someone who's beenable to say, oh, that's the
one person I look up to,that's my role model, that's my mentor.
I've just never been like that.What I try and do is you
know, take different things from differentpeople that help make me a better man,
a better father, a better publicservant. I've learned from some other
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public officials, i learned from pastorswho invited me into their churches. I've
learned from a number of people.I would say probably the you know,
maybe the last conversation I have onmost things is with my wife, who
I've been with since the ninth grade. She's someone who not only knows me
better than anybody else, but shecan challenge me in a way that maybe
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others feel like they can't and forceme to think about things different or say,
hey, you should really go askthat person what she thinks or he
thinks you should really, you know, maybe redoub your efforts to understand that
issue a little deeper before you speakabout it, whatever the case may be.
So she probably challenges me more thananyone. And then, you know
kind of view in the world throughmy children's eyes. Laura and I are
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blessed with four amazing kids. Adaughter is twenty two, and then three
sons eighteen, fourteen, and twelve. And when I hear them explain back
to me what they see happening inthe world right I kind of hear it
from their perspective that affects me.I know we're not really talking about criminal
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justice reform issues, but if Imad, just like to cite an example
that I think elucidates the answer toyour question. You know, for a
long time I sort of struggled withthe issue of capital punishment, of the
death penalty and full disclosure. WhenI ran and won for Attorney General,
I ran saying I would support thedeath penalty and the most heinous of cases.
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And then as Attorney General, Iwas never able to deploy or use
the death penalty. And it wasone day when my then roughly on a
ten eleven year old son asked meabout the death penalty. When my son
asked me why it was okay tokill someone who killed someone else, I
couldn't look them in the eye andanswer that question. Over time, my
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thoughts on this issue have evolved.Spoken to a lot of victims, to
families, to advocates, to communityleaders, and then my son. All
of these conversations have stayed with me, and through that experience, two critical
truths became clear to me about capitalsentencing in our commonwealth. The system is
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fallible and the outcome is irreversible.I will not sign any execution wanes during
my time as Governor of the CommonwealthyCouncil. And when you have to look
in the eyes of your child andexplain something and they kind of give you
that look, it really forces youto rethink something. And then, ultimately,
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as a result of a life oflistening the lived experiences that I had,
showing up in communities that viewed thatissue different than me, and then
ultimately having to look my kid inthe eye and explain that to them,
I end up changing my position,which is not something public officials do that
often. And I've been very outspokenabout how I change my views on capital
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punishment. I realized there are peoplewho are going to listen to us,
watch us, who are going todiffer from me on it. But I
couldn't justify a broken capital punishment systemto my ten or eleven year old son
and look him in the eye andjustify the position I had taken, and
so I changed my views. Ishare that with you because again, I'm
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not looking at one person or anotherto give me all the answers to everything.
I've got people around me who challengeme, who educate me who forced
me to confront issues in a differentway. And that's how I grow and
evolve as a man, as afather, as a public servant. And
you know, I'm going to continueto do that. I'm certainly not perfect,
and I'm going to try and getbetter at this job every day and
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better at you know, being aman, a dad, and a governor.
Yeah, I'm never a more authenticconversation than with a child eye to
eye. And hey, not perfect, governor, but the fact that you
are taking counsel from the wife prettyclose. Okay. I want to talk
if we can. I know we'realmost out of time about the recent election
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and what it tells us women,minorities, willingness to show up for principles,
What does it tell us. Ithink real freedom has been on the
ballot through multiple cycles, and ifI may, I'm going to be able
to parochial and just talk about Pennsylvania. But I'm sure your viewers know we're
the ultimate swing state here, andso I think it I think it sort
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of tells the story that is helpfulto the rest of the country. I
ran a campaign on yes, ofcourse, delivering better schools for our kids
and safer communities and economy that wasgoing to lift everybody up. And also
on protecting real freedom, the freedomfor women to be able to make decisions
over their own bodies, the freedomto marry who you love, the freedom
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to be able to worship where youwon, and of course, our most
fundamental freedom, protecting the right tovote, which the former president and his
enablers tried to undermine. If youwant to save your rights, celeberties,
you have to start by dealing areally humiliating rebuke to the radical left in
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this upcoming election. I fought backagainst that and won. And so I
think what you saw in my historicelection, historic in terms of the number
of votes we received to win thegovernorship in the election here in Pennsylvania,
was really a continuation of that.Let me begin by simply saying thank you,
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Pennsylvania. You saw in places likeKentucky where you wouldn't expect to see
it, real freedom. Want theright for women to be able to make
decisions over their own bodies, theright to be able to cast your ballot
and have account for the person thatyou support. I think what we're hearing
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from the American people over and overagain in these elections is that they don't
want the long arm of restrictive government, which is what Donald Trump and his
enablers bring, undermining real freedom.Well, that didn't turn out exactly how
I wanted it to. And Ithink what you've seen consistently is a Democratic
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Party, which I'm proud to bea part of, has been the party
of addition, we want to addto your rights and freedoms, and the
Republicans have been the party under Trumpof subtraction, trying to take away or
restrict your freedom. So many ofyour policies or ideas can expand elsewhere others
are looking at them. And youdo have a diverse support base, you
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do across different communities. I wonderif there's a chance that you be for
kiddos. Your high school sweetheart havetalked at all about perhaps moving a little
further to the south and landing atsixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. You know,
we don't talk about that stuff.I'm privileged to serve as governor of Pennsylvania,
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and it is my hope that wedo a good job here and other
states take note and they implement someof these policies or actions in their states.
It's my hope that members of Congresswho don't exactly have a tracker I
could have getten a whole lot doneright now, actually take note of what
we're building here in the Commonwealth ofPennsylvania and try and implement some of that
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on the national level. You know, I'm the only governor in the entire
nation with a full time divided legislature. And you know, for us to
get anything done here in Pennsylvania requiresRepublicans and Democrats to find common ground and
get things done. We need moreof that Washington, d C. So
look, I hope that folks dotake note of what we're doing here.
I hope they see our policies asthings they're lifting all people up, no
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matter what you look like, whereyou come from, who you love,
who you pray to, and thatthat can be a model for others.
And we're focused on that job andthat work, not on the broader national
politics. Well I'm with this one, Governor. Black Americans have something called
an invitation to the cookdown. Wewant to know that as a white person,
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someone who doesn't look like us,you feel comfortable around us. Again,
you have a history of being somewhatargue everything to everyone you do relate
to other communities. Well, sothe governor came here the Saturday before the
election, and he danced on thisstage, and he ran up and down
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the stage. This might be anoverstage. I've moved a little little,
but I am delighted because when hecame here that saturday, he was not
governor. But I am honored todaythat he is governor. And welcome to
the Enterprise Thank you, thank you, Miss Clark. Thank you, thank
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you, Miss Clark. I saidi'd be back, and I gave you
my word, and I'm back,and I'm back today to make a critically
important announcement. I wanted to behere at the Enterprise Center. What do
your black constituents tell you? Whatkind of conversations are you having with people
of color. I spent a lotof time with them, listening, engaging,
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understanding, and then in my jobimplementing right or executing on those things
we talk about. We talk alot about violence, an unacceptable level of
violence in our communities, and theways in which they want more police in
their communities. But police who areproperly trained, who look like them,
who go through all the rigors ofbeing prepared to be a sworn police officer
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to keep them safe. We talkabout inequities in our education system, and
I'm working hard to address that bygiving parents more options for their kids and
funding our public schools. It wasreally an honor for me to follow in
the footsteps of great leaders and historymakers who have spoken to Lincoln graduates in
the past. Leaders like the greatBooker T. Washington, doctor Martin Luther
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King Junior, and others who talkedabout the debt our nation owes to this
university and these graduates. They wereright. When I spoke here in May,
I bowed to you that is yourgovernor, I would work to help
pay down that debt, and todayis one of those down payments on that
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debt. We owe you with anincrease in their funding of more than twenty
one percent. It should be loston no one that Lincoln is one of
four state related institutions in this commonwealth, along with the aforementioned pit, Penn
State, and Temple, and Imust tell you Lincoln is the only university
to receive an increase of that amountin this year's budget. We talk a
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lot about how economic opportunity exists insome communities but not all, and the
arbitrary barriers to entry for so manythings, and then I try and act
on it. Let me give youjust one concrete example of the many dozens
that we've put in place since I'vebeen governor. On my first day in
office, Speaking of those arbitrary barriers, my first day in office, I
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signed an executive order doing a waywith the college degree requirement for ninety two
percent of our state government jobs.So it's about almost seventy thousand jobs.
Why do I tell you this becausethat college degree requirement seemingly was nothing more
than an arbitrary barrier to entry,and I wanted to make sure that all
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folks, by the way, peopleof color, folks who look like me,
had access to opportunity in the Commonwealthof Pennsylvania and weren't restricted by these
arbitrary rules that hold people back.And what we have seen since we've done
away with that arbitrary degree requirement isgreater diversity in our applicant pool, more
people saying, hey, you knowwhat, these folks actually want someone like
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me to apply and maybe want meto be part of their department or whatever
the case may be. That sortof arbitrary barrier to entry is something that's
held us back. Another example isthe way in which we use the purchasing
power of this commonwealth to either shutout opportunity or create more opportunities. I
made a priority of mine to havefar more minority businesses compete for contracts with
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the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Now whydo I think that's important. Well,
with more competition, the commonwealth canpurchase that product, whatever it is,
probably at a more competitive rate.Right, So that's good for the commonwealth.
But from that black owned small businessor Latino owned small business, whatever
the case may be, they're nowgiven an opportunity to participate in our economy,
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to create opportunities for accruing generational wealth, to hire more employees for that
black owned business, and to createmore financial stability in the years to come.
And so what we are doing thanksto that effort is we're creating more
opportunity in Pennsylvania, more opportunity tojoin our ranks of employment, more opportunity
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to do business with us. Andthe list goes on and on. I
just cite those two as concrete examplesthat have been born out of those conversations
I've had with folks at church afterchurch in their community centers, walk in
their main streets, you name it, and that those conversations have affected me
as a leader. And now I'min a position, thank God, as
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governor to be able to implement themand execute them to the betterment of all
people in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.We're an evite governor to the cookout.
I think you qualify. You getone. We appreciate you so much,
Governor Josh, Thankhapiro, Thank youso much for joining us. Good to
be with you. Thank you.M
It's good to be with you.We begin with the cookout. It is
our thing, even a sacred thing, Black folks coming together a place of
good food, music, games,debate the most important trust. At some
point, the cookout also became alitmus test for politicians who want something from
us, who need us. Iftrusted enough, they earn that invitation,
(00:25):
which is not to be taken lightly. It only comes if we sense authenticity,
not a code switch, and itis revocable. Now more than ever,
it's important to vet those who askus to give them the edge so
they can realize their dreams, usuallyhigher office. There are questions to be
asked before we cast a single ballot. What have you done for black people
(00:47):
lately? What did you do three, five, ten years ago? Are
you listening to us? Who doyou take counsel from? Now's the time
to keep them honesus for your nextlocal state election. Yes, the presidential
race of twenty twenty four, butwe must start vetting beyond that the future
leaders, who, it seems,are already anointed by their respective parties and
(01:11):
political machines. Those machines have treatedus as dispensable for far too long.
If we're being honest, we've allowedthat no one should be permitted to bypass
this rite of passage. Again,a job interview with Black America, especially
as we're now tightening the job requirementswith that mission in mind. I sat
(01:34):
down with a rising star in theDemocratic Party, Pennsylvania, Governor Josh Shapiro.
President Obama campaigned for Shapiro, andthere are expectations that he one day
run for the White House, sowe do need to know now if his
words match his record, Governor,thanks for joining US. Governor Josh Shapiro
(01:59):
Pennsylvania. I want to begin ifwe can in the Middle East. Like
President Biden, you believe there shouldbe no daylight between Israel and the United
States. When it comes to eradicatingHamas. Explain to those who may not
understand our commitment and the fallout reallyworldwide. Yeah. Absolutely, And I
(02:21):
want to make clear that my focusis on eradicating Hamas a terrorist group.
And I think it's really important tonote that certainly not all Palestinians are part
of Hamas or even support Hamas,and I think it's critically important that we
understand the difference. I also thinkit's very important we should get into this
that we not allow the situation theMiddle East to be used as an excuse
(02:45):
or a justification for anti Semitism,Islamophobia, anti Arab sentiment. But relative
to the question that you asked specificallyabout HAMAS, I mean you have to
understand they launched an unprovoked attack.They killed nearly fifteen hundred multinationals, the
vast majority of course being Israelis tookabout two hundred and fifty or so people
(03:07):
hostage, including Americans who remain hostageto this terrorist group. Slaughtering a peaceful
concert goer, killing women and childrenand families in a kibbutz where they live.
That is terrorism, plain and simple, and I think it is on
(03:28):
all of us to call out whatis so obviously wrong and what is right.
There is no moral equivalency between HAMAS, a foreign terrorist organization as designated
by the United States of America,and Israel, the only pluralistic, functioning
democracy in the Middle East. HAMASis hell bent on destroying Israel and ridding
(03:53):
the region of Jews. They donot seek peace and they do not seek
any type of lasting compromise. Iwant to see this conflict end as soon
as possible, but it absolutely cannotend until hamass eradicated in these hostages or
returned safely to their homes in Israeland America or wherever they're from. You
(04:13):
were criticized your initial statement that perhapslacks something the interviews that you gave in
the beginning. The Council of AmericanIslamic Relations CARE pointed to the fact of
what you didn't say. In theirview, you didn't mention Palestinians suffering in
the region. And here's what theexecutive director of CARE said, Governor,
if we truly value human rights,it is imperative that we stand in solidarity
(04:35):
against violence, and that includes thePalestinians who continue to endure immense hardship.
As the governor of Pennsylvania or Pennsylvanians, do you believe that your initial statement
lacked empathy to some non Jews.No, and I want to be crystal
clear about some Sharon you keep referringto it as my initial statement. I
(04:58):
have made those statements multiple times,including I think last the night before on
MSNBC, So I'm not backtracked inany way, shape or form from any
of those statements. What I havealso said, and maybe you just didn't
see that particular clip is that Icondemn the loss of all innocent lives,
and that we need to make surethat there's a clear distinction between Hamas and
(05:23):
between Palestinians. There is no moralequivalency here between Hamas and Israel. And
let's also recognize that not every Palestinianis a member of Hamas, and they
do not represent all Palestinians. Israelhas a right to defend itself in the
face of this unprovoked terrorist attack.While I support Israel's right to defend herself
(05:48):
against this unprovoked terrorist attack, itdoesn't mean that I support all the different
policies that Israel's engaged in, certainlynot over the last number of years under
Nata Yahu's leadership. So again,I've been entirely consistent throughout relative to that
letter that came to be from careunderstand that I have reached out and have
(06:10):
had multiple dialogues with Arab community leaders, Muslim leaders, Palestinian American leaders here
in Pennsylvania. We've met here inthis office, I'm in the Governor's office
here in the Capitol, and I'veengaged in meaningful, thoughtful dialogue with them,
and I've shared with them my profoundsadness for the loss of life that
(06:31):
they have experienced, the suffering thatthey and their families have experienced. And
I've also made clear that we can'tuse this as a justification for any type
of anti Arab sentiment, any Islamophobia, or any anti Semitism. And so
again my position has been clear andconsistent throughout. I do not think it's
mutually exclusive to believe that Israel isa right to defend itself, that we
(06:54):
need to eradicate that region of hamasof that terrorist group, and also more
in the loss of innocent lives,and care deeply about Arab American lives and
Palestinian American lives and others. Datingcare reference that you have a long standing
history of communicating effectively with all constituents, including them. If I missed it,
(07:16):
as you said, Governor, doyou think there is a disconnect and
more repair or more outreach needs tobe done. Well, We continue to
dialogue seemingly every day and having realmeaningful conversations, by the way, not
just now, but the kind ofconversations I've had over two decades in public
office with the Muslim community, withthe Arab American community, here in Pennsylvania.
(07:41):
I'm going to continue to have thatdialogue, and let me be clear,
I'm going to continue to stand upto any type of aid or intelligent
intolerance pardon me, directed toward Americanjewser directed toward American Muslims or American Arabs.
I'm here in the state Capitol rightnow, and just outside my window
here the front steps sharing there wasa protest about what was happening in the
(08:03):
Middle East, and I want tobe clear about something. I vehemently disagreed
with the political sentiments that were beingshared by the speakers on the capitol steps.
Yet I'll tell you what. Iwas pleased to see their peaceful demonstration
here in America, in the placefounded by William penn On, a place
(08:24):
of tolerance and understanding and bringing differentperspectives together. Now, at the end
of that rally, and again onethat I fully supported occurring, even though
I disagreed with the message. Atthe end of that rally, there was
a man who approached some of thepeaceful protesters and brandished a weapon and made
(08:45):
threats against them that law enforcement investigatedand within a couple days determined should be
charged as an act of ethnic intimidation. That's a word for our hate crimes
law here in Pennsylvania, and Iimmediately came out and condemn that. We
can't allow, as I said earlier, any of the situation in the Middle
East to be used as an excusefor Islamophobia or anti Semitism or any other
(09:11):
type of hate in this place thatpen built. We need to find ways
to bring people together, to createa greater understanding and to stand up for
people's right to peacefully protest whether weagree or disagree with their underlying political views.
Yeah, tolerance, right, Governor. Still, hate crimes against Jewish
Americans are on the rise greatly,and I wonder what you make of that,
(09:35):
how concerned you are about the safetyoverall wellbeing of Jewish Americans And what
do I believe is the root ofthis increase. Well, look, I'm
concerned about the safety and wellbeing ofall Pennsylvanians. It is also true that
we have seen a significant rise inanti Semitism. It was rising before October
(09:58):
seventh, when Hamas attacked Israel,and we've seen it, almost like a
hockey stick, really escalate over thelast month or so. And there's no
excuse for that. Now we willtake action through law enforcement for different policies
and efforts in our state government.I think the public has a lot of
(10:18):
responsibility here too. That's not justup to government officials to enforce. I
think we have a responsibility to knowour history. I think we have a
responsibility to understand how conflicts like thishave evolved over hundreds, in this case,
thousands of years, understanding that thereis a difference between agreement or disagreement
(10:41):
with a political personality in a particularstate, country, region, and the
underlying plight or goals of a groupof people. I'm being a little bit
clumsy here. I apologize share,but what I'm going to get at here
is, you know, I amsomeone who believes in Israel's right to exist.
(11:07):
I am someone who believes in atwo state solution where you have a
peaceful Palestinian country and a peaceful Israelliving side by side. And I am
someone who believes Benjamin d'taanna who hasnot been a good leader for Israel in
recent years. I don't get avote in that. I'm just giving you
my perspective. And yet I'm alsosomeone who believes that you can disagree on
(11:31):
the politics you can have views onthe particular immediate political situation, but not
engage in anti Semitism, not engagein Islamophobia. We have to we have
to learn our history and and havea deeper understanding of that. So we're
not engaging those issues while still beingable to speak out strongly about our political
(11:54):
views on a geopolitical issue. Yeah. I want to talk about that education
though, because it's that simple,right If you have people who have dug
in on either side of this,and there is no equivalent when you're talking
about slaughtering innocent people who are justtrying to live, breathe, celebrate.
They were celebrating in fellowship with eachother. But there is this notion that
(12:18):
you know, I'm entrenched on thisside or that side. So I want
to push you to be specific ifyou can. You've got a great film
industry in Philadelphia. You have otherways to educate people. How do you
do it? Look, one ofthe things I'm trying to do is bring
more Holocaust education to our schools.I think if you don't understand the Holocaust,
(12:39):
then it's very hard to understand whathappened in nineteen forty eight, the
establishment of Israel now, I wantto be very clear about something. Israel
doesn't exist because of the Holocaust.Israel existed long, over thousands of years
before that. We should know thathistory as well. But that immediate history,
that anti Semitism that was allowed topervade through Germany and through Europe and
(13:07):
then turn into policies of hatred andfear and then destruction and death, is
something that didn't happen all that longago. Yet you know, study after
study seems to show that over sixtypercent of our high school kids don't know
about that. I think that's animportant place to start to understand that.
I think it's really important to understandwhat happened in nineteen forty eight after the
(13:28):
UN Partition Plan, after the Palestinianswere given a homeland for them, the
Israelis given a homeland for them,and then the next day the Palestinians went
to war over that. I thinkit's important that people know that. I
think it's important to understand the historyof what's happened in Gaza and in the
West Bank, the attempts by theUnited States to make peace, attempts that
(13:50):
each and every time the particular leadersleading the Palestinian people at the time from
Yaser Arafat on walked away from thepeaceful overtures that should be factored in to
how people view the current situation.I'm not suggesting Sharmon that we're all going
to agree on what the prescription isgoing forward. We're going to have disagreements.
(14:13):
That's fair as long as we're havingdisagreements that aren't bringing anti Semitism,
Islamophobia, et cetera into the conversation. But in order to I think make
a thoughtful pronunciation about what direction youthink we should go in now, you've
got to understand that history. AndI'm just cited only a few examples of
the broader history that I think isreally important that people pay attention to.
(14:35):
So, whether we're going to learnit in school, whether you're going to
take time to really inform yourself onthe internet, on TikTok, wherever you
go to get your news, we'vegot to make sure that people understand that
history so they make a thoughtful argumentabout the future. Yeah, there's a
history on American soil, to longstanding communal sense between the Jewish American community
(14:56):
and Black Americans, to the civilrights marches and issues and fighting alongside each
other. It occurs to me andI think some of the polls Governor are
showing there seems to be an erosion. How much is debatable, But what
do you make of it? Whatcan be done to communities that do need
each other? Yeah, I'm notsure I can react to any particular poll,
(15:20):
but I understand the point of yourquestion. I think you know.
We talked a moment ago, Sharonabout learning our history. Folks should study
the history of Rabbi Abraham Joshua HeschelHeschel and the great doctor Martin Luther King,
Jr. And the partnership that theyformed in order to advance the civil
rights movement, understanding that when Jewswere being attacked for being Jewish, it
(15:41):
was a black community that was therethat had their back. And in the
civil rights movement, as doctor Kingwas moving that along and making progress through
governmental actions, it was Jews whowere quite literally marching alongside black leaders along
with many other people. But thatshared history, both the negative that is
being attacked for what you look like, or being attacked for how you worship
(16:06):
or how you were raised, aswell as the positive progression that we have
made. That is part of ourshared history, and I think it is
something that we need to find ourway back to. It goes back to
the question you asked before about whatcan be done. I think education is
a key piece of this. I, for one, spend a significant amount
of time, you know, inour Black churches, in our Baptist churches,
(16:29):
our Ame churches. And one ofthe things that I spent a lot
of time doing is not only listening, but also talking about that spirit of
Heschel and King continuing today in oursociety and using that to strengthen our communities.
Going back to what pen envision I'mnot sure he would have imagined me
sitting at this desk and you know, in the office that bears his portrait,
(16:52):
but certainly he was trying to builda place that was inclusive and tolerant,
and we need to find our wayback to that. Blacks and Jews
have had that great history together andwe need to do everything we can to
experience that again. And I thinkthrough experiential learning, through textbooks, through
the Internet, that's a really importantpart of this. And I view my
(17:14):
role as governor as a proud AmericanJew and as someone who oversees a comap
of thirteen million people that includes Jews, blacks, you name it. I
have to be someone that tries tolift everyone up and bring people together,
and I think education is a keypiece of that. Representative Corey Bush at
A, Missouri other leaders point tothat there seems to be this solidarity,
(17:37):
not seems there is between Black Americansand Palestinian Americans who have been there for
each other through Ferguson George Floyd,and they root it in racial justice,
the fight for it, and theydeserve our support to stand up and speak
(18:00):
out and not allow anyone, noteven our administration. So, okay,
the bombing of a land of people. Do you think that leaders such as
yourself were equipped to understand the manylayers of this and why there would be
this solidarity between the two communities.I certainly think I'm equipped to understand it,
(18:25):
but I also recognize I'm constantly learningand evolving, and so I want
to hear from different voices in Pennsylvaniathat are going to help me through that
process. We may, at theend of those conversations, at the end
of those meetings, at the endof those sessions, have different views on
the political solutions, right, butwe should understand that history. And to
(18:47):
your point, I think you usesharing the word the layers. If I'm
not mistaken, those layers are importantfor leaders to understand. I think I've
got a good feel for it,but I could always learn more. And
that's why I listen to the goodpeople of Pennsylvania. That's why I show
up in their churches. That's whyI invite different groups, whether they agree
with me or disagree with me,here to my office to talk. It's
why I go to their community centersto listen. So we have that kind
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of dialogue here in Pennsylvania, andI'm very proud of that, your openness,
your engagement. You've been on reallythe national stage for a good good
while now, Governor, and Iwonder if I could ask you perhaps a
personal question, who do you seekguidance from? You know, that is
a fair question. I seek itfrom a lot of different people and in
(19:34):
a lot of different ways. AndI'm not trying to a vague question.
But I've never been someone who's beenable to say, oh, that's the
one person I look up to,that's my role model, that's my mentor.
I've just never been like that.What I try and do is you
know, take different things from differentpeople that help make me a better man,
a better father, a better publicservant. I've learned from some other
(20:00):
public officials, i learned from pastorswho invited me into their churches. I've
learned from a number of people.I would say probably the you know,
maybe the last conversation I have onmost things is with my wife, who
I've been with since the ninth grade. She's someone who not only knows me
better than anybody else, but shecan challenge me in a way that maybe
(20:21):
others feel like they can't and forceme to think about things different or say,
hey, you should really go askthat person what she thinks or he
thinks you should really, you know, maybe redoub your efforts to understand that
issue a little deeper before you speakabout it, whatever the case may be.
So she probably challenges me more thananyone. And then, you know
kind of view in the world throughmy children's eyes. Laura and I are
(20:45):
blessed with four amazing kids. Adaughter is twenty two, and then three
sons eighteen, fourteen, and twelve. And when I hear them explain back
to me what they see happening inthe world right I kind of hear it
from their perspective that affects me.I know we're not really talking about criminal
(21:06):
justice reform issues, but if Imad, just like to cite an example
that I think elucidates the answer toyour question. You know, for a
long time I sort of struggled withthe issue of capital punishment, of the
death penalty and full disclosure. WhenI ran and won for Attorney General,
I ran saying I would support thedeath penalty and the most heinous of cases.
(21:29):
And then as Attorney General, Iwas never able to deploy or use
the death penalty. And it wasone day when my then roughly on a
ten eleven year old son asked meabout the death penalty. When my son
asked me why it was okay tokill someone who killed someone else, I
couldn't look them in the eye andanswer that question. Over time, my
(21:56):
thoughts on this issue have evolved.Spoken to a lot of victims, to
families, to advocates, to communityleaders, and then my son. All
of these conversations have stayed with me, and through that experience, two critical
truths became clear to me about capitalsentencing in our commonwealth. The system is
(22:22):
fallible and the outcome is irreversible.I will not sign any execution wanes during
my time as Governor of the CommonwealthyCouncil. And when you have to look
in the eyes of your child andexplain something and they kind of give you
that look, it really forces youto rethink something. And then, ultimately,
(22:45):
as a result of a life oflistening the lived experiences that I had,
showing up in communities that viewed thatissue different than me, and then
ultimately having to look my kid inthe eye and explain that to them,
I end up changing my position,which is not something public officials do that
often. And I've been very outspokenabout how I change my views on capital
(23:08):
punishment. I realized there are peoplewho are going to listen to us,
watch us, who are going todiffer from me on it. But I
couldn't justify a broken capital punishment systemto my ten or eleven year old son
and look him in the eye andjustify the position I had taken, and
so I changed my views. Ishare that with you because again, I'm
(23:29):
not looking at one person or anotherto give me all the answers to everything.
I've got people around me who challengeme, who educate me who forced
me to confront issues in a differentway. And that's how I grow and
evolve as a man, as afather, as a public servant. And
you know, I'm going to continueto do that. I'm certainly not perfect,
and I'm going to try and getbetter at this job every day and
(23:51):
better at you know, being aman, a dad, and a governor.
Yeah, I'm never a more authenticconversation than with a child eye to
eye. And hey, not perfect, governor, but the fact that you
are taking counsel from the wife prettyclose. Okay. I want to talk
if we can. I know we'realmost out of time about the recent election
(24:14):
and what it tells us women,minorities, willingness to show up for principles,
What does it tell us. Ithink real freedom has been on the
ballot through multiple cycles, and ifI may, I'm going to be able
to parochial and just talk about Pennsylvania. But I'm sure your viewers know we're
the ultimate swing state here, andso I think it I think it sort
(24:37):
of tells the story that is helpfulto the rest of the country. I
ran a campaign on yes, ofcourse, delivering better schools for our kids
and safer communities and economy that wasgoing to lift everybody up. And also
on protecting real freedom, the freedomfor women to be able to make decisions
over their own bodies, the freedomto marry who you love, the freedom
(24:57):
to be able to worship where youwon, and of course, our most
fundamental freedom, protecting the right tovote, which the former president and his
enablers tried to undermine. If youwant to save your rights, celeberties,
you have to start by dealing areally humiliating rebuke to the radical left in
(25:18):
this upcoming election. I fought backagainst that and won. And so I
think what you saw in my historicelection, historic in terms of the number
of votes we received to win thegovernorship in the election here in Pennsylvania,
was really a continuation of that.Let me begin by simply saying thank you,
(25:49):
Pennsylvania. You saw in places likeKentucky where you wouldn't expect to see
it, real freedom. Want theright for women to be able to make
decisions over their own bodies, theright to be able to cast your ballot
and have account for the person thatyou support. I think what we're hearing
(26:12):
from the American people over and overagain in these elections is that they don't
want the long arm of restrictive government, which is what Donald Trump and his
enablers bring, undermining real freedom.Well, that didn't turn out exactly how
I wanted it to. And Ithink what you've seen consistently is a Democratic
(26:33):
Party, which I'm proud to bea part of, has been the party
of addition, we want to addto your rights and freedoms, and the
Republicans have been the party under Trumpof subtraction, trying to take away or
restrict your freedom. So many ofyour policies or ideas can expand elsewhere others
are looking at them. And youdo have a diverse support base, you
(26:57):
do across different communities. I wonderif there's a chance that you be for
kiddos. Your high school sweetheart havetalked at all about perhaps moving a little
further to the south and landing atsixteen hundred Pennsylvania Avenue. You know,
we don't talk about that stuff.I'm privileged to serve as governor of Pennsylvania,
(27:18):
and it is my hope that wedo a good job here and other
states take note and they implement someof these policies or actions in their states.
It's my hope that members of Congresswho don't exactly have a tracker I
could have getten a whole lot doneright now, actually take note of what
we're building here in the Commonwealth ofPennsylvania and try and implement some of that
(27:41):
on the national level. You know, I'm the only governor in the entire
nation with a full time divided legislature. And you know, for us to
get anything done here in Pennsylvania requiresRepublicans and Democrats to find common ground and
get things done. We need moreof that Washington, d C. So
look, I hope that folks dotake note of what we're doing here.
I hope they see our policies asthings they're lifting all people up, no
(28:04):
matter what you look like, whereyou come from, who you love,
who you pray to, and thatthat can be a model for others.
And we're focused on that job andthat work, not on the broader national
politics. Well I'm with this one, Governor. Black Americans have something called
an invitation to the cookdown. Wewant to know that as a white person,
(28:26):
someone who doesn't look like us,you feel comfortable around us. Again,
you have a history of being somewhatargue everything to everyone you do relate
to other communities. Well, sothe governor came here the Saturday before the
election, and he danced on thisstage, and he ran up and down
(28:48):
the stage. This might be anoverstage. I've moved a little little,
but I am delighted because when hecame here that saturday, he was not
governor. But I am honored todaythat he is governor. And welcome to
the Enterprise Thank you, thank you, Miss Clark. Thank you, thank
(29:10):
you, Miss Clark. I saidi'd be back, and I gave you
my word, and I'm back,and I'm back today to make a critically
important announcement. I wanted to behere at the Enterprise Center. What do
your black constituents tell you? Whatkind of conversations are you having with people
of color. I spent a lotof time with them, listening, engaging,
(29:33):
understanding, and then in my jobimplementing right or executing on those things
we talk about. We talk alot about violence, an unacceptable level of
violence in our communities, and theways in which they want more police in
their communities. But police who areproperly trained, who look like them,
who go through all the rigors ofbeing prepared to be a sworn police officer
(30:00):
to keep them safe. We talkabout inequities in our education system, and
I'm working hard to address that bygiving parents more options for their kids and
funding our public schools. It wasreally an honor for me to follow in
the footsteps of great leaders and historymakers who have spoken to Lincoln graduates in
the past. Leaders like the greatBooker T. Washington, doctor Martin Luther
(30:22):
King Junior, and others who talkedabout the debt our nation owes to this
university and these graduates. They wereright. When I spoke here in May,
I bowed to you that is yourgovernor, I would work to help
pay down that debt, and todayis one of those down payments on that
(30:44):
debt. We owe you with anincrease in their funding of more than twenty
one percent. It should be loston no one that Lincoln is one of
four state related institutions in this commonwealth, along with the aforementioned pit, Penn
State, and Temple, and Imust tell you Lincoln is the only university
to receive an increase of that amountin this year's budget. We talk a
(31:11):
lot about how economic opportunity exists insome communities but not all, and the
arbitrary barriers to entry for so manythings, and then I try and act
on it. Let me give youjust one concrete example of the many dozens
that we've put in place since I'vebeen governor. On my first day in
office, Speaking of those arbitrary barriers, my first day in office, I
(31:34):
signed an executive order doing a waywith the college degree requirement for ninety two
percent of our state government jobs.So it's about almost seventy thousand jobs.
Why do I tell you this becausethat college degree requirement seemingly was nothing more
than an arbitrary barrier to entry,and I wanted to make sure that all
(31:56):
folks, by the way, peopleof color, folks who look like me,
had access to opportunity in the Commonwealthof Pennsylvania and weren't restricted by these
arbitrary rules that hold people back.And what we have seen since we've done
away with that arbitrary degree requirement isgreater diversity in our applicant pool, more
people saying, hey, you knowwhat, these folks actually want someone like
(32:20):
me to apply and maybe want meto be part of their department or whatever
the case may be. That sortof arbitrary barrier to entry is something that's
held us back. Another example isthe way in which we use the purchasing
power of this commonwealth to either shutout opportunity or create more opportunities. I
made a priority of mine to havefar more minority businesses compete for contracts with
(32:46):
the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Now whydo I think that's important. Well,
with more competition, the commonwealth canpurchase that product, whatever it is,
probably at a more competitive rate.Right, So that's good for the commonwealth.
But from that black owned small businessor Latino owned small business, whatever
the case may be, they're nowgiven an opportunity to participate in our economy,
(33:09):
to create opportunities for accruing generational wealth, to hire more employees for that
black owned business, and to createmore financial stability in the years to come.
And so what we are doing thanksto that effort is we're creating more
opportunity in Pennsylvania, more opportunity tojoin our ranks of employment, more opportunity
(33:30):
to do business with us. Andthe list goes on and on. I
just cite those two as concrete examplesthat have been born out of those conversations
I've had with folks at church afterchurch in their community centers, walk in
their main streets, you name it, and that those conversations have affected me
as a leader. And now I'min a position, thank God, as
(33:52):
governor to be able to implement themand execute them to the betterment of all
people in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.We're an evite governor to the cookout.
I think you qualify. You getone. We appreciate you so much,
Governor Josh, Thankhapiro, Thank youso much for joining us. Good to
be with you. Thank you.M
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