July 21, 2025 • 32 mins
KA-BOOM, GOTHAM! It’s time for a city-shattering crossover of chaos as the Source Material crew dives into the absolute MADNESS of DC’s Joker War Saga! Jesse Starcher and Mark Radulich are suiting up for this Gotham-wide, Joker-fueled firestorm that tore through Batman #95–100 and splashed insanity across titles like Batgirl, Red Hood, Nightwing, and more!
We're talking lunacy, toxin-fueled mind games, and a rogue’s gallery of Bat-characters caught in a neon-lit nightmare. The Joker hijacks Wayne Enterprises, weaponizes Lucius Fox, and drops a clown army on the streets with killer tech—and it's up to Batman (barely standing), Harley Quinn (badass mode: activated), and newcomers like Clown Hunter to fight back in the most INSANE Bat-event of the 2020s!
This is another event that nearly broke Bruce, forced Harley to make the ultimate call, and turned the streets of Gotham into a warzone. Joker's got a Bat-suit, bombs strapped to enemies, and psychological warfare turned up to 11. Plus, who the heck is Ghost-Maker?! If you love your Bat-books cranked up with 90s-style grit, gadgets, and gang wars—tune in!
We're talking lunacy, toxin-fueled mind games, and a rogue’s gallery of Bat-characters caught in a neon-lit nightmare. The Joker hijacks Wayne Enterprises, weaponizes Lucius Fox, and drops a clown army on the streets with killer tech—and it's up to Batman (barely standing), Harley Quinn (badass mode: activated), and newcomers like Clown Hunter to fight back in the most INSANE Bat-event of the 2020s!
This is another event that nearly broke Bruce, forced Harley to make the ultimate call, and turned the streets of Gotham into a warzone. Joker's got a Bat-suit, bombs strapped to enemies, and psychological warfare turned up to 11. Plus, who the heck is Ghost-Maker?! If you love your Bat-books cranked up with 90s-style grit, gadgets, and gang wars—tune in!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good day time books around with Hero, Slash and Phil.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
It's take time.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
We're here to dissect the storm. He's in a y
a sub material Bounty five all right. Next up we
have the Joker War saga. I think the main story
is through the Batman book.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes, it's five issues of Batman. But then this like
Red Hood, Back Girl, Batwoman.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
They're all going under like Joker War collateral damage, I
think is what it is. You got Detective Comics ten,
twenty five, Red Hood, just like you were saying, there's
a bunch, there's a smattering of issues. Actually, I have
it listed here. Give me a second, because I do
want to I should read that. Okay, before we get
into the book here, I want to make sure I
(00:49):
cover all the issues and the creative team behind this event.
So the issues that we are going to be covering
are Batman ninety five through one hundred, Batgirl forty seven,
Detective Comics oneenty twenty five, Red Hood, Outlaw number forty eight,
Nightwing seventy four, The Joker War Zone number one, and
(01:13):
some stories from Harley Quinn number seventy five and Catwoman
number twenty five. Now, I just wrote down all our
creative team for everything here. Our writers are James Tinian,
the Fourth Cecil or Cecil Castilucci, Peter Toamassi and Scott Lobdell.
On Pencils, inks and art we got Jorge J. Menez,
Carlo Pagoulion, Danny Meek, Gielim March, Robbie Rodriguez, Kenneth Auroquefort
(01:40):
and Brett Booth. Colors are tomu More, Jordi Belair, Dan
Brown and Ed F. Prianto. Letters are Clayton Cowells and
world design Rob Lee and a larger worlds Troy PETERI
now back to the show. So all of those were
(02:02):
touched by the joke weor and it's a pretty I mean,
it's some pretty expansive. This is some stuff that Gotham
City is going through. So it makes sense that all
these books a.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Year after City of Bain. Anyone live in this city anymore?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh, that was going through my head as I was
reading this. It is like I'm moving there's no.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Way city and risk getting blown up.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I mean, it is bad in Gotham City.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
We've got clowns running around terrorizing the city.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's not here though, right, I don't know if no
Man's land is still continuity anymore, because I don't give
a shit abou anything like that. But can you imagine
you've been at Gotham Height for the last fifty years
and you've had to survive multiple terrorist ticking over your city,
an earthquake.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
You know, like, get the hell out. I mean you
just leave.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
All that will be left in Gotham City is criminals,
because that's all it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You Like, someone needs to write a book called Gotham
Civil War and it's literally just the people of Gotham
finally like breaking into Arkham, killing everybody that killed the Joker,
everybody there.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Sort of get a little bit of that.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
No, yeah, I need the entire city.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I get you.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I get to just lose their shit, you know, and
it ends with them killing Batman.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
We hadn't we took care of business. You're no longer.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Needs nailed to a cross.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I'm gonna throw the.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Damien's you know. They just heads on a spike and
where this sign is welcome to Gotham. Boy, that's the
story I'd write.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I mean, yeah, that'd be something else because now criminals
are going to be scared of coming into Gotham because.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Do you imagine you pitched you walk in. That's my
pitch to a DC editor. Hey, Mark, you know, we're
really happy to have you. Thank you for coming from
your independent company, Pantils Productions. You write some weird comics. Well,
thank you. I really tried to write out of the box. Well,
what's your pitch for Batman? What do you want to do?
I want to do a year long story. We're at
the end of it. All. The Gothamites killed the entire
Batman universe. Get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
They would be like points you over here to black label, sir,
sit down.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Have a twelve issues, lots to lock all right.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
As far as creative teams go, I did not get
everybody on here, so I'm not going to go through them.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I'll put them in here post edit.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
James Tenny in the fourth is writing the main Batman story.
The other adjacent titles have different creative teams. Jorge Jimenez,
I think, is on the art here for Joker Wars
in Batman, and then tomu More is on colors. Clayton
Cole's on or Cowl's on letters here, and this is
(04:28):
again in the main Batman Joker War story.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Here's the synopsis.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
The Joker War Saga is a sprawling Gotham wide catastrophe catastrophe,
catastrophe unlike Cow catastrophe, unleashed when the Joker seizes and
when the Joker sees his control of Wayne Enterprises and
uses Bruce Wayne's fortune to wage psychological and chemical warfare
(04:56):
on the city by hacking into wayne tech systems through
Lucia's Corrupted by Joker toxin, Joker arms his clown army
with advanced gadgets and poisons, turning Gotham into his nightmarish playground.
The city descends into chaos. The GCPD is overrun, civilians
are caught in the crossfire, and Batman himself is broken
(05:18):
both physically and mentally by a brutal mix of Joker
toxin and Scarecrow's fear gas. Meanwhile, Joker's newest disciple, Punchline,
emerges as a fearsome force. She out maneuvers Harley Quinn,
takes on Batman, and delivers Jokers of venomous vision with
sharp efficiency. Gotham's heroes are scattered, its infrastructure hijacked, and
(05:39):
even Bruce's legacy is called into question as Joker broadcasts
twisted retellings of Batman's origin across the city, staging gruesome
reenactments in the Monarch Theater. Simultaneously, a new vigilanti named
Clown Hunter rises from the ashes, serving up brutal street
justice while challenging Batman's no kill rule. We must have
(06:02):
missed or maybe it's always been known to Joker always
know that Bruce Wayne was Batman? Or did he just
overtake the Wayne fortune and use it to You have
to think that he knows, because he's using the whole
Monarch Theater against him, He's using Alfred against him, so
he has to know. He knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman. Okay,
that must have happened in some previous issues.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Let me tell you how I didn't think about that
at all.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, it didn't occur to me until late in the book.
I was like, wait a second, you know he's using
all this he must know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, so at to.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
This point, how the whole world doesn't know Batman is
Bruce Wayne. I'll never know. Also, wait five minutes, there'll
be a crisis and it won't matter.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It snapped out of existence.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
But Gotham fights like comics anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Hey, listen, there's always new readers. Just because you've read
a story once doesn't mean it can't be retold and
read by somebody else again.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
All right, Well, just they keep breaking the universe, why
would anyone be invested in it?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Gotham fights back. Harley Quinn returns with renewed resolve, Batgall
reclaim aims her role as Oracle, Red Hood, night Wing,
and the rest of the bat family rally under Batman's call.
Catwoman redeems herself by stealing back the Wayne Fortune from
Joker's accounts. The tide begins to turn as Gotham's defenders
launch a coordinated counter offensive, cutting through Joker's forces and
(07:15):
reclaiming key ground. Through visions of Alfred in painful self reflection,
Batman regains his purpose, casting off the effects of the
ToxS and facing Joker head on. In a final brutal
confrontation at Ace Chemicals and the war's climax, Harley forces
Batman into ammoral crossroads. As she runs from the scene,
(07:36):
she reveals that Batman has to choose to save either
Harley or Joker, as she has strapped Bob's to both
of them. This time, Batman makes a choice, leaving Joker
to his own fate. Gotham is scarred, oving.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Every girlfriend ever, Don't you walk away from Me?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Gotham is scarred, but healing begins new threats loom, Punchline
readies herself for trial. Clown Hunter tears on the edge
of vengeance and a mysterious new rival as ghost Maker.
One page prepares to challenge one page Epilogue prepares to
challenge Batman's mission. The Joker War isn't just a tale
of explosive action. It's a reckoning with Alfred Jahn. Bruce
(08:14):
Wayne must redefine his role not just as Gotham's protector,
but as its leader. It's a story of legacy, trauma,
and rebirth for Batman, for Gotham, and for every broken
soul cot in the twisted Game of the Joker.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Two things right off the bat had Harley Quin's the
best part of this book. This feels to me more
like a Harley Quinn story, and like her relationship with
the Joker, the introduction of Punchline, all of that. Harley
Quinn's your big hero here, not the Joke, not Batman.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, you know, and to kind of support that before
you go to your next point. You know, the choice
that she makes Batman make is the one that everybody
always screams about, like why doesn't Batman just let the
Joker dive in this guy? And he does that here,
and the only reason he does that is because of
Harley Quinn. Good.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
He knows pe'ce willing to bet that Joker will figure
out way out of it, and Harley Quinn was all
but dead. Porn has ruined Batman Harley Quinn. For me,
I cannot picture Batman Harley Quinn alone with no characters
around without doing the thing that my friend did when
(09:21):
I watched Melrolle's Place with him years ago. They got
a fuck are they gonna fuck? Like especially the bit
where she takes him to poison Ivy's like magical swamp,
nottham or whatever you eaton, And I'm just like, damn it,
I know they're not going to This is a child's comic.
But because I've now seen so much Batman and Harley
(09:41):
Quinn porn, all I can think about is like, they're
clearly gonna fuck.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Now, right, No, No, Mark, They're not.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And I know that, Jesse, intellectually, I know that, but
in my heart in my weirdo brain. Wow, I have
to keep stopping myself. It's just a comic book. This
isn't set up for porn. Oh my god, I should
tell you how much Harlequin and Batman porn there is
out there.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, there's it's it's mass quantities, that's for sure. How
do I how do I follow that up? Let's see, that.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Could the important part of the story. This is my
I don't hate this. I don't even dislike it. I'm
more like it's fine. You know, it's five on a
ten point scale. Like I said, the best stuff is
the stuff with Harley and more, because you know, she's
displaced by Punchline until she has to get with that,
and it's like, you know, Punchlines doing the stuff of
you were so stupid. You know, you're another one who
(10:32):
thinks they could reach the Joker. I don't want to
reach the Joker. So she's a nihilist. Essentially, the Joker's
vision of the world is that we should blow it up.
The world is not worth saving. The world is worth
causing it as much pain and then finally ending it.
I believe in this. I kind of like the Punchline character.
I like giving Joker kind of like a busy business
woman sidekick, somebody to keep him grounded. Miss can we
(10:54):
stay focused? It's hurting catch with you pal. You know
they have a very like Sam and Diane dynamic. And
I know that's like a very that ages me about
a thousand years. But for those few kids go back
and watch Cheers. You know, Diane was a very proper
woman and Dan and Sam was a you know, sort
of devil may care, roguish ex baseball player turned bartender,
(11:16):
and that was their dynamic. It was, you know, Sam's
trying to get Diane a little dirtied up, Diane trying
to get Sam a little cleaned up. There was the
sexual tension, and it's a different dynamic than with Harley
because Harley was in love with the Joker. She was
capable and she was smart, but she was more of like, oh, pudding,
whatever you want to do, I live to serve. She
was the submissive in that relationship and punchline, I would
(11:38):
not say submissive to the Joker. She potzes herself as
more of his equal. We'll execute your plan, but I'm
going to make sure all the eyes are doddit and
the teaser across I'm not here for your craziness. I'm
here for your destruction. Let's go. Her fight with Harley
is some of the best stuff of the book because
Harley's like, don't go in, don't go with the Joker.
He'll just affuse you to throw you in front of
(11:59):
him and feel take punches from Batman, and She's like,
I don't want that to begin with. I'm not here
for that. You what you know? I imagine her saying,
you know that clash is good stuff. Carle Quinn kind
of getting to a point where, like everybody else, she's
speaking for not only the audience, but everybody in Gotham
and the bat family. The Joker is not worth keeping around.
He cannot be redeemed, he cannot be saved, he cannot
(12:21):
be cured, and the longer he lives, the more people
are gonna get killed. He is a deadly fire. And
then there's Batman, who is like killing is wrong, and
everyone's like, at this point, you're the reason people are dying,
not the Joker. Your continued allowance of his existence is
what's killing people, not the Joker himself. Right, She makes
(12:43):
Batman make a terrible choice, like you talked about the bombs.
She's like, I'm not gonna let this happen, but she
shoots him in the eye with a shot Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I don't know if you know there's but the eye
is in front of the brain.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah. I was sitting there thinking, like, I mean, it
either didn't go as deep as you think it would,
or it went out the side of a zan shotgun
could have been filled with rock salt, I don't know
either way.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
With a fucking dart ow. So she shoots him in
the eye because as we all know, shotguns are also
very acutely targeted weapons.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So anyway, she shooes him in the eye and then
straps a bomb to him, and then she's like, tells Batman,
you have lost validity. It's the one that Lester says
to to I think it's sindoor when in season five
when they're like why did you why are you putting
up in illegal wiretap? He was like, I considered the
decision to come down off of Marlow. Invalid has all
the word he uses, but that's what he's going for, invalid,
(13:37):
And that's kind of what Harley says to Batman, I
have considered your decision to continue to let the Joker
live just to murder more people invalid. Yeah, they have
all conversation where's like, I'm final seeing the shot, I'm
taking it, and Batman's like, no, murder is wrong, and
she's right, you're wrong, stupid, right, right, at some point
you have to face reality and you're not willing to.
It's almost as if the way they write Batman is
if he lets even one of his rogues, Callery die,
(14:00):
the mission has failed, as if they're more important than
the citizens of Gotham. There's like, don't run around and
kill people the way Batwoman does. But then there's like
why would you continue? Why do you keep saving the
Joker after he's killed millions of people? Right, So she's like,
I'm not leaving your decision making is invalid. I'm not
leaving this in your hands anymore. You are not the authority.
So she straps the bomb, the Joker shuts under, subject
(14:22):
runs away, and then the Joker is just you know again,
every narcist girlfriend Batman and Batman, you're not gonna let
me die. Wae come and save me. Batman, having now
turned into a donkey, and then a Lollipop, looks at
the Joker and goes, nah, it'll be fine and runs
after Harley. And there's the Joker like, what the fuck?
(14:42):
Years of this and you know, why are you now
bringing up with me?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Of course the Joker lives, of course, Yeah, I mean
he's able to escape, and I think we have a
small issue afterwards, just like eight pages of him running
into the Diners where we learn a lot about punchline too.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, he's gonna say. The Joker War feels the most
like a Batman book of all three.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Look Killer Smile obviously Black Label, but it's also a
dive into the psychotic Joker and the psychology played upon
the victim of the Joker the.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Least like a Batman book at the least like a
comic book. It is just a short story about an
anti social psychopath and how psychologically tortures is doctor. That's it, right.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
The puzzle Box is your unreliable narrator Joker and the
insanity that comes along with some of the stuff that
he does.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
He just it makes no sense. It's just chaos, right.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And then Joker War is the quintessential Joker, obsessed with
the bat That is all that Joker War is about
is Joker trying to get one over.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
He's just a completely.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
The Joker War reminds me of the Eddie Izzard bit
about invading Russia. You're like, well, Napoleon ran into Russia.
It's like, oh, I'm gonna win.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I'm gonna win.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Oh, it's a bit cold. It's a bit cold, and
Napoleon Darby runs away. Then stalin, I've got a better idea,
and he runs into Russia. Oh to be cold. The
Joker War reminds me of like Yogre kind of looks
at the City of Bane and I think he actually
addresses it at some point at the end of the
book and he actually says to the Bane he was like,
(16:08):
how do you fuck this up? Not like how did
you lose the city to Batman? But it was like
you were gonna kill the butler and you did it
in front of the kid. You do that in front
of Batman, you mortally wound him. What's wrong with you?
It's like, you're so bad at this. So it's almost
as like Joker kind of building on City of Bain,
looked at what Bing did and was like, I've got
(16:28):
a better idea, you know. So Ban was Napoleon Joker
is stalin Yeah, and it ends this and it's it's
the same beats. Take everything important to Batman, destroy it,
turn everyone on Batman, break his spirit, break his mind,
and then take over the city. And then Batman finds
his brain, finds his heart, puts himself back together like Scarecrow,
not the villain, the actual Wizard of Ozcarcrow puts all
(16:50):
the stuff back in, and he returns to the city
a bit stronger, a bit wiser, and takes him out.
The Joker War literally is almost beat by beat City
of Bane.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Introduction of clown Hunter in this book, or at least
he's a new guy to me, which I find a
very very meta. I don't know if that's the word
ironics probably the best word. That his weapon is a
damn bat with a bat orang attached to it, and
he is ruthless, like he is killing these Joker thugs
(17:21):
that are coming in and messing with his part of
the Narrows, I think is the place that he lives.
And boy, oh boy, was I there for that.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know, I talked to you a few weeks ago
when we were doing Chant of Custody about Robert's argument
about Captain Walker, John Walker killing somebody with the shield right,
And I said at the time, like that person had
given up, there was no reason to take his head off. Literally,
like that person said, I give. But that's not to
say that I don't believe in corporate punishment. I think
there are times where situations call for it. I'm not
(17:49):
I don't think the death penalty is a thing that
deters crime. Is true, but I do think that at
some point some crimes are heinous enough and they are
beyond proving otherwise that the person does deserve to be
dispassionately executed. Our heroes can win a fist fight, but
do they ever stop these guys? No, Penguin, mister Freeze,
(18:13):
calendar man, condiment King. Still, if you're writing from the
standpoint if the citizens are Gotham, they have to be
sick of the vigilantees. You don't accomplish anything, and so
he's walking around just killing these guys. There's a reason
why people relate to the punisher. I was a soldier.
I did my part for my country. I came home
and I was trying to be a better man. I
was trying to be a civilized man and common criminals
(18:35):
took out my family. Okay, I have nothing to live for,
so I'm gonna run around the streets with a machine
gun and kill criminal And people are like power. As
far as power fantasies goes, Punisher is a good one.
The idea that the system is so inherently broken, the
society is so inherently broken that you could be having
a picnic in the park with your family and they
could all end up dead because they were at the
(18:56):
wrong place at the wrong time. And why is the
park the wrong place? The park shouldn't be wrong. It's
like the school shooting thing. I was in the wrong
place at the wrong time. No school shouldn't be the
wrong place. Is the point? Going all the way back
to Clown Hunter, He's like, I don't live by any
of your stupid codes. Your code is how we got
to this. From one year to the next, we went
from City of Bane to the Joker War. Early in
Tom King's run, there was a whole thing called the
(19:16):
War of Jokes and Riddles, which I have which is
either it's been a while since I've read or I
haven't read it at all. I don't remember. Because I
was reading the Tom King run up for about I
think four trades, and then I stopped, and I vaguely
remember like that was another one where between the Joker
and the Riddler, like they had Jotham host if you
live in that city, Like I sympathize with Cloud, I
do really do sympathize with clown Hunter, like I was
(19:37):
cheering him on. I'm like, you're the real hero of
this book. Cloud. He is earle Quinn.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, he is the one that is like defending his
home and he is He's taken it into his hands
and if you come in there, you are going to die.
And he is not messing around.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Every time Batwoman tells Batman go fuck himself, I'm not
living up to your stupid coat. I'm on Batwoman's side.
As much as I like Batman, cou the way they
write some of the other characters in his books and
how they act towards him in his code, I'm more
often and not on the side of people against Batman.
I think the way they've written Batman over the years
is a little ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think a lot of the extra characters you're talking about,
they're probably put in the book for people with that
same disposition.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
To identify with. That's all the notes I had here.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I did dig the batsuit at the end where the
Joker was wearing the batsuit and fighting Batman in it.
You know, supposedly it was this real fancy batsuit. We
even get a dream sequence as he's trying to work
through all this Joker toxin and whatever hallucinogenic stuff that
Harley give him to supposedly get it out of the system.
But he starts seeing what's going on in the future,
and he's wearing this fancy batsuit, so I think he's
(20:44):
got this thing created. And then the Joker, of course,
is the one that steals it and is wearing it
and fighting Batman with it.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
At the end. The Joker is just crazed throughout this
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
He's orchestrating this war on Gotham and on Batman, and
it's just a quintessential Batman versus Joker.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
How nervous did you get in the scene with Batman
and bat Girl win her apartment again? Oh, that's Joker
and back Girl.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That was the first issue that I read. That fight
was awesome, I'll tell you that much. She's struggling for
her life. He ends up paralyzing her again. Supposedly she
has some kind of cybernetic thing.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
It's like a micro chip in her spine.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So she's able to do something. But I mean it
was I thought it was a great fight.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I loved it because the way they I didn't realize
that was still cannon.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
That she was paralyzed. Yeah, me either. I don't know
what is and what isn't anymore. Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, the way that issue ended too, if I remember,
I was both of them just laying on the ground.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yep, just about out of it. And so is that girl.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
It was the only other thing I was interested in
this book, the Batman stuff. I was the least interested
in the Harley Quinn stuff. I was interested in the
punchline stuff I was interested in. And then that one scene,
like I kind of just now want like an odd
couple comic book of Batgirl and Joker. You know, Joker's
kind of a slow back girl. That girl is is clean,
just you know, just living together in apartment, the.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Old odd couple, the Red Hood outlaw issue. I just
I'm throwing this out here. I know it doesn't mean
much to you, but.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I don't understand who the fucking Red Hood is anymore,
because wasn't that Jason Todd.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
It is Jason Todd.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, And that's Jason Todd. He's a
you know, he's a good guy. Now He's obviously went
through some changes, as you can tell because he's using
rubber bullets. He was the extreme vigilanti at one point,
hurting people pretty bad and Batman got.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Old and said, don't you do that in my city.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
He's like, okay, I'm only going to use rubber bullets
from here on out. Dick Grayson, did you were you
following the whole Dick Rick Richard thing.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Dickie boy a little bit. I mean I gathered that.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
He'd gone through some really big changes. It becomes like
this like super spy at some point and changes his
name to Rick Grayson R I see. And anyway, yeah,
it was really crazy, and of course Punchline had brainwashed
him and to whatever evil thing that he was, and
he was fighting the other bats anyway, red Hood Outlaw.
I just want to put point this out here. The
creative team on that, Scott Lobdell and I believe it
(23:03):
was Danny Meeky was involved, and Brett Booth on the
art these are some nineties names, my friend. I loved
the look of the book. It felt really nineties to me,
but the storytelling was okay. I didn't know what was
going on other than Dick Grayson had some kind of pendent.
They had to get the pendant off of him and
destroy the pendant, and he regains all his memories. Great, fantastic,
(23:24):
Now he's back on the side of Batman.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It is stories like this would remind me to not
follow comics month all right.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
There it is. That is the Joker War saga. I
don't have anything else to add.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It was okay, I don't hate it, you know, Like
I said, this good stuff I was able to pull
out of it, good stuff to talk about. But I'm
finding that books like The Puzzle Box or A Killer
Smile or more my speed when it comes to comic
that when we do a trade that is essentially a
gathering of comics from the monthly continuity, I don't like
(23:54):
them as much.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
No, thank you, I'd rather not because and I think
you mentioned a couple of times like what's it, Matt,
We're going to be doing this again next year? You
know it's not going to matter in the long and
that's that's unfortunate, and DC black label gives the creative
team an opportunity to tell a story that's way outside
of continuity, which I have a lot of appreciation for.
(24:16):
I think a lot of storytellers want to go the
black label route because they don't want to be stuck
in continuity. They don't want it because they know it
almost kind of carries a negative connotation to it, like
you've got all this stuff, you've got to try and
maybe think of We just talked about the whole Rick
Dicky Boy Grayson thing, no idea what we were stepping
into there.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So look at what happened with City of Band where
both of us folt like, is this the multiverse?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah? What the hell is Thomas Wayne doing here? I
don't understand.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We can't because we didn't read the button.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
All right, let's get into plugs and this was our trilogy, buddy.
We did Joker Killer Smile, Joker Presents a Puzzle Box,
and the Joker War Saga.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Worry they overloaded you with too many books? We did well.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I'll tell you that Joker War saga. I was sitting
there going there's no way Mark's getting this done. There's
no way he's getting through all all these issues. This
story is huge, and I thought that would be one
of those ones where you'd be like, Okay, let's do
a three episode of this one. But now I paced myself.
I'll tell you that must. I did not want to
be sitting there today spending eight hours reading Joker Warsaga,
and then I would have threw some at you. Somehow
(25:14):
I would have watched it and I would landed on you, Florida.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I why I got like stickers on it, like Memphis.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, this past customs somehow through Mexico. I don't know
what happened, but it got there as long as I
paced myself.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
We opened it up with.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
A real quick, easy one with Joker, Killer Smile, Joker
and some Puzzle Box was fourteen issues, but ten pages
of an issue is nothing, and Joker Warsaga was a lot.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
But I enjoyed what I was reading, so I didn't hate.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
It's trying to put this together, like I wondered your
Killer Smile, and then I was like, okay, we'll find
two more Joker books. And I understand Joker Wars the
Joker warsaka. Was you understand that I threw in the
Joker warsck because it was on my shelf and I
need your third book. I went looking for the Puzzle
Box because I wanted something encapsulated and somewhat short with
these books. Like when we first started doing this, we
were doing trades. Trades have four to six issues in them,
(26:04):
so we do anywhere from twelve issues to eighteen issues.
That's the Mark and Jesse experience Adam acts usually, so
I think we did a little bit more for for
Jessica Jones because it was four trade, but we pushed
through and got it done with this one because it
wasn't one complete series. The numbering was out of whack
for me, so it was like, well, one's got three,
on got eight, one's got twelve. Well, I hope Jesse
(26:24):
doesn't hate me for this.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It is absolutely the most issues that I've covered in
one single recording here, even though we're splitting this all up,
it is definitely the most issues that I sat down
and read to do one recording with. But yeah, I
don't know what else you're going to do in order
to push I.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Think of one time I pitched to you the Loess
Lane book and it was a fairly lengthy book, and
there was one entire episode that you put up into three.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And I was just sitting there thinking today somebody had
come across my Facebook feed where he had a stack
of books that he had picked up from somewhere. And
I remember coming out of the library in two thousand,
sixteen seventeen something like that with a stack like that
for Alan Moore Week.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
And one of them was from Hell, which was this thick. Yeah,
it was massive.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
We did that for allan More week here.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I grabbed those books from the library to do them
for the podcast episode. Reminded me of you when I
saw the stack of books as I was taking the
forklift back to my car.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Well, Jesse, it only gets worse from here.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
What did you do?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Because June fifteenth, we have five trades to do the
entire Darth Vader saga from Marvel Slash Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
All right, let me take a look because I'm curious
as to how many issues.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Sunday, June fifteenth I am making because these are on
my shelf and I want to get them read. These
are the Darth Vader book. There has been a couple
of different versions of Darth Vader. This is the original
Darth Vader book from when from the post Disney lucasfilm merger,
when they when they started doing comic books. This is
that iteration of Darth Vader. There's four volumes of the
Darth Vader book, and then there's a second book that
(27:56):
is Vader Down, which.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Oh yes, I've heard of, Vader Down, which I've heard
is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And Vader Down is a couple of different books into one.
Let me if you can find it really quick. Okay.
So Vader Down incorporates.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
East Bound and Vader Down.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, six issues. Vader Down is six issues, okay, and
it incorporates Vader Down, which was November eighteenth, twenty fifteen,
Darth Vader Issue number thirteen, Star Wars Issue number thirteen,
Darth Vader Issue fourteen, Star Wars fourteen, and Darth Vader fifteen,
Which is why I wanted to do it this way.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, all right, ten, I.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Remember why I was doing this because if you look
at the individual Darth Vader volumes, they skip those issues.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Gotcha Vader Down, Vader Down.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Down, Vader Downtown. So that's what we're gonna be doing.
June fifteenth is Darth Vader one through four and Vader Down.
I have on my shelf Darth Vader volume one through four.
Where they don't have is Vader Down.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I have to go get that east Bound and Vader Down.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So that's what's next here on material. And I know
Jesse cuts these up and they'll be out whenever you're
listening to this, this will have happened months ago.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Since this was twenty twenty five, folks.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, so I will just say, check out all of
my podcasts on w TWOM network. Damn you. Hollywood is
almost every single Monday, and then Thursday is either a
triple feature or a TV party. Alexis helps out with
the slop he do's the Star Wars, Marvel and the
cartoons I don't want to deal with. Occasionally I do
something with her, but I enjoy like the bear. I
(29:30):
got her to watch a Netflix show called Apple Cider
Vinegar and it's about the real true life scandal about
someone pushing apple cider. Vinegar is like a health thing.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
They've heard of the health benefits, So I'm wow, I
didn't know that this was a scam.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, there's a Netflix show about it. So I'm gonna
make her watch that. I know everyone's very excited about
this critic. This is gonna make Avengers end game. People
are coming out of the woodwork that we be a
part of our critic review, which I put you on
against you will.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
What is it the critic the critic?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
This is the critic the sho show. I know what
you're talking about. I had no idea was on. When
is this happening?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Jesse?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
You you Mark good at fucking.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Calendar and tell me when things are happening. I just
went through the calendar a few days ago and was
looking through like, Okay, where's my name at?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Because I need to put it on my schedule.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Just do the shows I tell you to do. It'll
be well. June, let me tell you how June is
like Mark makes Jesse do stuff month.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Oh fantastic, it's my birthday.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I'm acting like a big girl for the month of June.
What's my birthday? June second? So my how I want
to spend my birthday? Make Jesse do a million podcasts.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
We've got oh, I see me now? Yeah, I see it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Okay, June first, then we've got I'm making you do
another refin triple feature of Drive Drive Bronson and non Demon.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Oh my gosh, Father's.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Day is when we're doing Darth Vader, then the Critic
and we have a sessions and then we've got another
source material recording of all Superman stuff, because I wanted
to get all sorts of Superman in before the movie and
then the West Wing.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
But what season I'll be in there? That's season six? Yeah,
the Ultimate?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Go seven?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Right? Yeah? I think there's seven seasons total. Yeah, I'm all.
I started season four as we're talking about it this Thursday.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
After Oh shit, dude, yeah, yeah, buddy, I quit my job.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I have time to watch them over the next two weeks. Okay,
fair enough, it's this Thursday, except that whenever you're listening
to this it might not even be then will already pass.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well, we're in season, we've we've already done whatever the
next thing.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I've done talking now, that's that's where that's the most important.
I'm at Mark Radleage on TikTok. Come see clips of
the shows, Jesse, take me home. I Phil nausis.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh, he's feeling sick, folks.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
We're out of here. That over there is Mark Radliche.
I'm Jesse startcher. Thank you so much for joining us,
have a good night, bye bye.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Thanks for joining us. All of this would not be
possible without W two m net dot com, so make
sure to seek them out for more podcasts. If you
enjoyed what you heard today, please feel free to share,
and we look forward to entertaining you again.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So
Good day time books around with Hero, Slash and Phil.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
It's take time.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
We're here to dissect the storm. He's in a y
a sub material Bounty five all right. Next up we
have the Joker War saga. I think the main story
is through the Batman book.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes, it's five issues of Batman. But then this like
Red Hood, Back Girl, Batwoman.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
They're all going under like Joker War collateral damage, I
think is what it is. You got Detective Comics ten,
twenty five, Red Hood, just like you were saying, there's
a bunch, there's a smattering of issues. Actually, I have
it listed here. Give me a second, because I do
want to I should read that. Okay, before we get
into the book here, I want to make sure I
(00:49):
cover all the issues and the creative team behind this event.
So the issues that we are going to be covering
are Batman ninety five through one hundred, Batgirl forty seven,
Detective Comics oneenty twenty five, Red Hood, Outlaw number forty eight,
Nightwing seventy four, The Joker War Zone number one, and
(01:13):
some stories from Harley Quinn number seventy five and Catwoman
number twenty five. Now, I just wrote down all our
creative team for everything here. Our writers are James Tinian,
the Fourth Cecil or Cecil Castilucci, Peter Toamassi and Scott Lobdell.
On Pencils, inks and art we got Jorge J. Menez,
Carlo Pagoulion, Danny Meek, Gielim March, Robbie Rodriguez, Kenneth Auroquefort
(01:40):
and Brett Booth. Colors are tomu More, Jordi Belair, Dan
Brown and Ed F. Prianto. Letters are Clayton Cowells and
world design Rob Lee and a larger worlds Troy PETERI
now back to the show. So all of those were
(02:02):
touched by the joke weor and it's a pretty I mean,
it's some pretty expansive. This is some stuff that Gotham
City is going through. So it makes sense that all
these books a.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Year after City of Bain. Anyone live in this city anymore?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Oh, that was going through my head as I was
reading this. It is like I'm moving there's no.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Way city and risk getting blown up.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I mean, it is bad in Gotham City.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
We've got clowns running around terrorizing the city.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
It's not here though, right, I don't know if no
Man's land is still continuity anymore, because I don't give
a shit abou anything like that. But can you imagine
you've been at Gotham Height for the last fifty years
and you've had to survive multiple terrorist ticking over your city,
an earthquake.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
You know, like, get the hell out. I mean you
just leave.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
All that will be left in Gotham City is criminals,
because that's all it's going to be.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
You Like, someone needs to write a book called Gotham
Civil War and it's literally just the people of Gotham
finally like breaking into Arkham, killing everybody that killed the Joker,
everybody there.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Sort of get a little bit of that.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
No, yeah, I need the entire city.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
I get you.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
I get to just lose their shit, you know, and
it ends with them killing Batman.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
We hadn't we took care of business. You're no longer.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Needs nailed to a cross.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I'm gonna throw the.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Damien's you know. They just heads on a spike and
where this sign is welcome to Gotham. Boy, that's the
story I'd write.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I mean, yeah, that'd be something else because now criminals
are going to be scared of coming into Gotham because.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Do you imagine you pitched you walk in. That's my
pitch to a DC editor. Hey, Mark, you know, we're
really happy to have you. Thank you for coming from
your independent company, Pantils Productions. You write some weird comics. Well,
thank you. I really tried to write out of the box. Well,
what's your pitch for Batman? What do you want to do?
I want to do a year long story. We're at
the end of it. All. The Gothamites killed the entire
Batman universe. Get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
They would be like points you over here to black label, sir,
sit down.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Have a twelve issues, lots to lock all right.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
As far as creative teams go, I did not get
everybody on here, so I'm not going to go through them.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I'll put them in here post edit.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
James Tenny in the fourth is writing the main Batman story.
The other adjacent titles have different creative teams. Jorge Jimenez,
I think, is on the art here for Joker Wars
in Batman, and then tomu More is on colors. Clayton
Cole's on or Cowl's on letters here, and this is
(04:28):
again in the main Batman Joker War story.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Here's the synopsis.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
The Joker War Saga is a sprawling Gotham wide catastrophe catastrophe,
catastrophe unlike Cow catastrophe, unleashed when the Joker seizes and
when the Joker sees his control of Wayne Enterprises and
uses Bruce Wayne's fortune to wage psychological and chemical warfare
(04:56):
on the city by hacking into wayne tech systems through
Lucia's Corrupted by Joker toxin, Joker arms his clown army
with advanced gadgets and poisons, turning Gotham into his nightmarish playground.
The city descends into chaos. The GCPD is overrun, civilians
are caught in the crossfire, and Batman himself is broken
(05:18):
both physically and mentally by a brutal mix of Joker
toxin and Scarecrow's fear gas. Meanwhile, Joker's newest disciple, Punchline,
emerges as a fearsome force. She out maneuvers Harley Quinn,
takes on Batman, and delivers Jokers of venomous vision with
sharp efficiency. Gotham's heroes are scattered, its infrastructure hijacked, and
(05:39):
even Bruce's legacy is called into question as Joker broadcasts
twisted retellings of Batman's origin across the city, staging gruesome
reenactments in the Monarch Theater. Simultaneously, a new vigilanti named
Clown Hunter rises from the ashes, serving up brutal street
justice while challenging Batman's no kill rule. We must have
(06:02):
missed or maybe it's always been known to Joker always
know that Bruce Wayne was Batman? Or did he just
overtake the Wayne fortune and use it to You have
to think that he knows, because he's using the whole
Monarch Theater against him, He's using Alfred against him, so
he has to know. He knows that Bruce Wayne is Batman. Okay,
that must have happened in some previous issues.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Let me tell you how I didn't think about that
at all.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Well, it didn't occur to me until late in the book.
I was like, wait a second, you know he's using
all this he must know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Yeah, so at to.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
This point, how the whole world doesn't know Batman is
Bruce Wayne. I'll never know. Also, wait five minutes, there'll
be a crisis and it won't matter.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
It snapped out of existence.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
But Gotham fights like comics anymore.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Hey, listen, there's always new readers. Just because you've read
a story once doesn't mean it can't be retold and
read by somebody else again.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
All right, Well, just they keep breaking the universe, why
would anyone be invested in it?
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Gotham fights back. Harley Quinn returns with renewed resolve, Batgall
reclaim aims her role as Oracle, Red Hood, night Wing,
and the rest of the bat family rally under Batman's call.
Catwoman redeems herself by stealing back the Wayne Fortune from
Joker's accounts. The tide begins to turn as Gotham's defenders
launch a coordinated counter offensive, cutting through Joker's forces and
(07:15):
reclaiming key ground. Through visions of Alfred in painful self reflection,
Batman regains his purpose, casting off the effects of the
ToxS and facing Joker head on. In a final brutal
confrontation at Ace Chemicals and the war's climax, Harley forces
Batman into ammoral crossroads. As she runs from the scene,
(07:36):
she reveals that Batman has to choose to save either
Harley or Joker, as she has strapped Bob's to both
of them. This time, Batman makes a choice, leaving Joker
to his own fate. Gotham is scarred, oving.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Every girlfriend ever, Don't you walk away from Me?
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Gotham is scarred, but healing begins new threats loom, Punchline
readies herself for trial. Clown Hunter tears on the edge
of vengeance and a mysterious new rival as ghost Maker.
One page prepares to challenge one page Epilogue prepares to
challenge Batman's mission. The Joker War isn't just a tale
of explosive action. It's a reckoning with Alfred Jahn. Bruce
(08:14):
Wayne must redefine his role not just as Gotham's protector,
but as its leader. It's a story of legacy, trauma,
and rebirth for Batman, for Gotham, and for every broken
soul cot in the twisted Game of the Joker.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Two things right off the bat had Harley Quin's the
best part of this book. This feels to me more
like a Harley Quinn story, and like her relationship with
the Joker, the introduction of Punchline, all of that. Harley
Quinn's your big hero here, not the Joke, not Batman.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Well, you know, and to kind of support that before
you go to your next point. You know, the choice
that she makes Batman make is the one that everybody
always screams about, like why doesn't Batman just let the
Joker dive in this guy? And he does that here,
and the only reason he does that is because of
Harley Quinn. Good.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
He knows pe'ce willing to bet that Joker will figure
out way out of it, and Harley Quinn was all
but dead. Porn has ruined Batman Harley Quinn. For me,
I cannot picture Batman Harley Quinn alone with no characters
around without doing the thing that my friend did when
(09:21):
I watched Melrolle's Place with him years ago. They got
a fuck are they gonna fuck? Like especially the bit
where she takes him to poison Ivy's like magical swamp,
nottham or whatever you eaton, And I'm just like, damn it,
I know they're not going to This is a child's comic.
But because I've now seen so much Batman and Harley
(09:41):
Quinn porn, all I can think about is like, they're
clearly gonna fuck.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Now, right, No, No, Mark, They're not.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
And I know that, Jesse, intellectually, I know that, but
in my heart in my weirdo brain. Wow, I have
to keep stopping myself. It's just a comic book. This
isn't set up for porn. Oh my god, I should
tell you how much Harlequin and Batman porn there is
out there.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, there's it's it's mass quantities, that's for sure. How
do I how do I follow that up? Let's see, that.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Could the important part of the story. This is my
I don't hate this. I don't even dislike it. I'm
more like it's fine. You know, it's five on a
ten point scale. Like I said, the best stuff is
the stuff with Harley and more, because you know, she's
displaced by Punchline until she has to get with that,
and it's like, you know, Punchlines doing the stuff of
you were so stupid. You know, you're another one who
(10:32):
thinks they could reach the Joker. I don't want to
reach the Joker. So she's a nihilist. Essentially, the Joker's
vision of the world is that we should blow it up.
The world is not worth saving. The world is worth
causing it as much pain and then finally ending it.
I believe in this. I kind of like the Punchline character.
I like giving Joker kind of like a busy business
woman sidekick, somebody to keep him grounded. Miss can we
(10:54):
stay focused? It's hurting catch with you pal. You know
they have a very like Sam and Diane dynamic. And
I know that's like a very that ages me about
a thousand years. But for those few kids go back
and watch Cheers. You know, Diane was a very proper
woman and Dan and Sam was a you know, sort
of devil may care, roguish ex baseball player turned bartender,
(11:16):
and that was their dynamic. It was, you know, Sam's
trying to get Diane a little dirtied up, Diane trying
to get Sam a little cleaned up. There was the
sexual tension, and it's a different dynamic than with Harley
because Harley was in love with the Joker. She was
capable and she was smart, but she was more of like, oh, pudding,
whatever you want to do, I live to serve. She
was the submissive in that relationship and punchline, I would
(11:38):
not say submissive to the Joker. She potzes herself as
more of his equal. We'll execute your plan, but I'm
going to make sure all the eyes are doddit and
the teaser across I'm not here for your craziness. I'm
here for your destruction. Let's go. Her fight with Harley
is some of the best stuff of the book because
Harley's like, don't go in, don't go with the Joker.
He'll just affuse you to throw you in front of
(11:59):
him and feel take punches from Batman, and She's like,
I don't want that to begin with. I'm not here
for that. You what you know? I imagine her saying,
you know that clash is good stuff. Carle Quinn kind
of getting to a point where, like everybody else, she's
speaking for not only the audience, but everybody in Gotham
and the bat family. The Joker is not worth keeping around.
He cannot be redeemed, he cannot be saved, he cannot
(12:21):
be cured, and the longer he lives, the more people
are gonna get killed. He is a deadly fire. And
then there's Batman, who is like killing is wrong, and
everyone's like, at this point, you're the reason people are dying,
not the Joker. Your continued allowance of his existence is
what's killing people, not the Joker himself. Right, She makes
(12:43):
Batman make a terrible choice, like you talked about the bombs.
She's like, I'm not gonna let this happen, but she
shoots him in the eye with a shot Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
I don't know if you know there's but the eye
is in front of the brain.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah. I was sitting there thinking, like, I mean, it
either didn't go as deep as you think it would,
or it went out the side of a zan shotgun
could have been filled with rock salt, I don't know
either way.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
With a fucking dart ow. So she shoots him in
the eye because as we all know, shotguns are also
very acutely targeted weapons.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
So anyway, she shooes him in the eye and then
straps a bomb to him, and then she's like, tells Batman,
you have lost validity. It's the one that Lester says
to to I think it's sindoor when in season five
when they're like why did you why are you putting
up in illegal wiretap? He was like, I considered the
decision to come down off of Marlow. Invalid has all
the word he uses, but that's what he's going for, invalid,
(13:37):
And that's kind of what Harley says to Batman, I
have considered your decision to continue to let the Joker
live just to murder more people invalid. Yeah, they have
all conversation where's like, I'm final seeing the shot, I'm
taking it, and Batman's like, no, murder is wrong, and
she's right, you're wrong, stupid, right, right, at some point
you have to face reality and you're not willing to.
It's almost as if the way they write Batman is
if he lets even one of his rogues, Callery die,
(14:00):
the mission has failed, as if they're more important than
the citizens of Gotham. There's like, don't run around and
kill people the way Batwoman does. But then there's like
why would you continue? Why do you keep saving the
Joker after he's killed millions of people? Right, So she's like,
I'm not leaving your decision making is invalid. I'm not
leaving this in your hands anymore. You are not the authority.
So she straps the bomb, the Joker shuts under, subject
(14:22):
runs away, and then the Joker is just you know again,
every narcist girlfriend Batman and Batman, you're not gonna let
me die. Wae come and save me. Batman, having now
turned into a donkey, and then a Lollipop, looks at
the Joker and goes, nah, it'll be fine and runs
after Harley. And there's the Joker like, what the fuck?
(14:42):
Years of this and you know, why are you now
bringing up with me?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Of course the Joker lives, of course, Yeah, I mean
he's able to escape, and I think we have a
small issue afterwards, just like eight pages of him running
into the Diners where we learn a lot about punchline too.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
Yeah, he's gonna say. The Joker War feels the most
like a Batman book of all three.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Look Killer Smile obviously Black Label, but it's also a
dive into the psychotic Joker and the psychology played upon
the victim of the Joker the.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Least like a Batman book at the least like a
comic book. It is just a short story about an
anti social psychopath and how psychologically tortures is doctor. That's it, right.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
The puzzle Box is your unreliable narrator Joker and the
insanity that comes along with some of the stuff that
he does.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
He just it makes no sense. It's just chaos, right.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
And then Joker War is the quintessential Joker, obsessed with
the bat That is all that Joker War is about
is Joker trying to get one over.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
He's just a completely.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
The Joker War reminds me of the Eddie Izzard bit
about invading Russia. You're like, well, Napoleon ran into Russia.
It's like, oh, I'm gonna win.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I'm gonna win.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
Oh, it's a bit cold. It's a bit cold, and
Napoleon Darby runs away. Then stalin, I've got a better idea,
and he runs into Russia. Oh to be cold. The
Joker War reminds me of like Yogre kind of looks
at the City of Bane and I think he actually
addresses it at some point at the end of the
book and he actually says to the Bane he was like,
(16:08):
how do you fuck this up? Not like how did
you lose the city to Batman? But it was like
you were gonna kill the butler and you did it
in front of the kid. You do that in front
of Batman, you mortally wound him. What's wrong with you?
It's like, you're so bad at this. So it's almost
as like Joker kind of building on City of Bain,
looked at what Bing did and was like, I've got
(16:28):
a better idea, you know. So Ban was Napoleon Joker
is stalin Yeah, and it ends this and it's it's
the same beats. Take everything important to Batman, destroy it,
turn everyone on Batman, break his spirit, break his mind,
and then take over the city. And then Batman finds
his brain, finds his heart, puts himself back together like Scarecrow,
not the villain, the actual Wizard of Ozcarcrow puts all
(16:50):
the stuff back in, and he returns to the city
a bit stronger, a bit wiser, and takes him out.
The Joker War literally is almost beat by beat City
of Bane.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Introduction of clown Hunter in this book, or at least
he's a new guy to me, which I find a
very very meta. I don't know if that's the word
ironics probably the best word. That his weapon is a
damn bat with a bat orang attached to it, and
he is ruthless, like he is killing these Joker thugs
(17:21):
that are coming in and messing with his part of
the Narrows, I think is the place that he lives.
And boy, oh boy, was I there for that.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
You know, I talked to you a few weeks ago
when we were doing Chant of Custody about Robert's argument
about Captain Walker, John Walker killing somebody with the shield right,
And I said at the time, like that person had
given up, there was no reason to take his head off. Literally,
like that person said, I give. But that's not to
say that I don't believe in corporate punishment. I think
there are times where situations call for it. I'm not
(17:49):
I don't think the death penalty is a thing that
deters crime. Is true, but I do think that at
some point some crimes are heinous enough and they are
beyond proving otherwise that the person does deserve to be
dispassionately executed. Our heroes can win a fist fight, but
do they ever stop these guys? No, Penguin, mister Freeze,
(18:13):
calendar man, condiment King. Still, if you're writing from the
standpoint if the citizens are Gotham, they have to be
sick of the vigilantees. You don't accomplish anything, and so
he's walking around just killing these guys. There's a reason
why people relate to the punisher. I was a soldier.
I did my part for my country. I came home
and I was trying to be a better man. I
was trying to be a civilized man and common criminals
(18:35):
took out my family. Okay, I have nothing to live for,
so I'm gonna run around the streets with a machine
gun and kill criminal And people are like power. As
far as power fantasies goes, Punisher is a good one.
The idea that the system is so inherently broken, the
society is so inherently broken that you could be having
a picnic in the park with your family and they
could all end up dead because they were at the
(18:56):
wrong place at the wrong time. And why is the
park the wrong place? The park shouldn't be wrong. It's
like the school shooting thing. I was in the wrong
place at the wrong time. No school shouldn't be the
wrong place. Is the point? Going all the way back
to Clown Hunter, He's like, I don't live by any
of your stupid codes. Your code is how we got
to this. From one year to the next, we went
from City of Bane to the Joker War. Early in
Tom King's run, there was a whole thing called the
(19:16):
War of Jokes and Riddles, which I have which is
either it's been a while since I've read or I
haven't read it at all. I don't remember. Because I
was reading the Tom King run up for about I
think four trades, and then I stopped, and I vaguely
remember like that was another one where between the Joker
and the Riddler, like they had Jotham host if you
live in that city, Like I sympathize with Cloud, I
do really do sympathize with clown Hunter, like I was
(19:37):
cheering him on. I'm like, you're the real hero of
this book. Cloud. He is earle Quinn.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Yeah, he is the one that is like defending his
home and he is He's taken it into his hands
and if you come in there, you are going to die.
And he is not messing around.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Every time Batwoman tells Batman go fuck himself, I'm not
living up to your stupid coat. I'm on Batwoman's side.
As much as I like Batman, cou the way they
write some of the other characters in his books and
how they act towards him in his code, I'm more
often and not on the side of people against Batman.
I think the way they've written Batman over the years
is a little ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
I think a lot of the extra characters you're talking about,
they're probably put in the book for people with that
same disposition.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
To identify with. That's all the notes I had here.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I did dig the batsuit at the end where the
Joker was wearing the batsuit and fighting Batman in it.
You know, supposedly it was this real fancy batsuit. We
even get a dream sequence as he's trying to work
through all this Joker toxin and whatever hallucinogenic stuff that
Harley give him to supposedly get it out of the system.
But he starts seeing what's going on in the future,
and he's wearing this fancy batsuit, so I think he's
(20:44):
got this thing created. And then the Joker, of course,
is the one that steals it and is wearing it
and fighting Batman with it.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
At the end. The Joker is just crazed throughout this
whole thing.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
He's orchestrating this war on Gotham and on Batman, and
it's just a quintessential Batman versus Joker.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
How nervous did you get in the scene with Batman
and bat Girl win her apartment again? Oh, that's Joker
and back Girl.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That was the first issue that I read. That fight
was awesome, I'll tell you that much. She's struggling for
her life. He ends up paralyzing her again. Supposedly she
has some kind of cybernetic thing.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
It's like a micro chip in her spine.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
So she's able to do something. But I mean it
was I thought it was a great fight.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
I loved it because the way they I didn't realize
that was still cannon.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
That she was paralyzed. Yeah, me either. I don't know
what is and what isn't anymore. Sometimes.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, the way that issue ended too, if I remember,
I was both of them just laying on the ground.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yep, just about out of it. And so is that girl.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
It was the only other thing I was interested in
this book, the Batman stuff. I was the least interested
in the Harley Quinn stuff. I was interested in the
punchline stuff I was interested in. And then that one scene,
like I kind of just now want like an odd
couple comic book of Batgirl and Joker. You know, Joker's
kind of a slow back girl. That girl is is clean,
just you know, just living together in apartment, the.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Old odd couple, the Red Hood outlaw issue. I just
I'm throwing this out here. I know it doesn't mean
much to you, but.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I don't understand who the fucking Red Hood is anymore,
because wasn't that Jason Todd.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
It is Jason Todd.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure, And that's Jason Todd. He's a
you know, he's a good guy. Now He's obviously went
through some changes, as you can tell because he's using
rubber bullets. He was the extreme vigilanti at one point,
hurting people pretty bad and Batman got.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Old and said, don't you do that in my city.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
He's like, okay, I'm only going to use rubber bullets
from here on out. Dick Grayson, did you were you
following the whole Dick Rick Richard thing.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Dickie boy a little bit. I mean I gathered that.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
He'd gone through some really big changes. It becomes like
this like super spy at some point and changes his
name to Rick Grayson R I see. And anyway, yeah,
it was really crazy, and of course Punchline had brainwashed
him and to whatever evil thing that he was, and
he was fighting the other bats anyway, red Hood Outlaw.
I just want to put point this out here. The
creative team on that, Scott Lobdell and I believe it
(23:03):
was Danny Meeky was involved, and Brett Booth on the
art these are some nineties names, my friend. I loved
the look of the book. It felt really nineties to me,
but the storytelling was okay. I didn't know what was
going on other than Dick Grayson had some kind of pendent.
They had to get the pendant off of him and
destroy the pendant, and he regains all his memories. Great, fantastic,
(23:24):
Now he's back on the side of Batman.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
It is stories like this would remind me to not
follow comics month all right.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
There it is. That is the Joker War saga. I
don't have anything else to add.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
It was okay, I don't hate it, you know, Like
I said, this good stuff I was able to pull
out of it, good stuff to talk about. But I'm
finding that books like The Puzzle Box or A Killer
Smile or more my speed when it comes to comic
that when we do a trade that is essentially a
gathering of comics from the monthly continuity, I don't like
(23:54):
them as much.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
No, thank you, I'd rather not because and I think
you mentioned a couple of times like what's it, Matt,
We're going to be doing this again next year? You
know it's not going to matter in the long and
that's that's unfortunate, and DC black label gives the creative
team an opportunity to tell a story that's way outside
of continuity, which I have a lot of appreciation for.
(24:16):
I think a lot of storytellers want to go the
black label route because they don't want to be stuck
in continuity. They don't want it because they know it
almost kind of carries a negative connotation to it, like
you've got all this stuff, you've got to try and
maybe think of We just talked about the whole Rick
Dicky Boy Grayson thing, no idea what we were stepping
into there.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
So look at what happened with City of Band where
both of us folt like, is this the multiverse?
Speaker 1 (24:39):
Yeah? What the hell is Thomas Wayne doing here? I
don't understand.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
We can't because we didn't read the button.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
All right, let's get into plugs and this was our trilogy, buddy.
We did Joker Killer Smile, Joker Presents a Puzzle Box,
and the Joker War Saga.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Worry they overloaded you with too many books? We did well.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I'll tell you that Joker War saga. I was sitting
there going there's no way Mark's getting this done. There's
no way he's getting through all all these issues. This
story is huge, and I thought that would be one
of those ones where you'd be like, Okay, let's do
a three episode of this one. But now I paced myself.
I'll tell you that must. I did not want to
be sitting there today spending eight hours reading Joker Warsaga,
and then I would have threw some at you. Somehow
(25:14):
I would have watched it and I would landed on you, Florida.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
I why I got like stickers on it, like Memphis.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, this past customs somehow through Mexico. I don't know
what happened, but it got there as long as I
paced myself.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
We opened it up with.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
A real quick, easy one with Joker, Killer Smile, Joker
and some Puzzle Box was fourteen issues, but ten pages
of an issue is nothing, and Joker Warsaga was a lot.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
But I enjoyed what I was reading, so I didn't hate.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
It's trying to put this together, like I wondered your
Killer Smile, and then I was like, okay, we'll find
two more Joker books. And I understand Joker Wars the
Joker warsaka. Was you understand that I threw in the
Joker warsck because it was on my shelf and I
need your third book. I went looking for the Puzzle
Box because I wanted something encapsulated and somewhat short with
these books. Like when we first started doing this, we
were doing trades. Trades have four to six issues in them,
(26:04):
so we do anywhere from twelve issues to eighteen issues.
That's the Mark and Jesse experience Adam acts usually, so
I think we did a little bit more for for
Jessica Jones because it was four trade, but we pushed
through and got it done with this one because it
wasn't one complete series. The numbering was out of whack
for me, so it was like, well, one's got three,
on got eight, one's got twelve. Well, I hope Jesse
(26:24):
doesn't hate me for this.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
It is absolutely the most issues that I've covered in
one single recording here, even though we're splitting this all up,
it is definitely the most issues that I sat down
and read to do one recording with. But yeah, I
don't know what else you're going to do in order
to push I.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Think of one time I pitched to you the Loess
Lane book and it was a fairly lengthy book, and
there was one entire episode that you put up into three.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
And I was just sitting there thinking today somebody had
come across my Facebook feed where he had a stack
of books that he had picked up from somewhere. And
I remember coming out of the library in two thousand,
sixteen seventeen something like that with a stack like that
for Alan Moore Week.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
And one of them was from Hell, which was this thick. Yeah,
it was massive.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
We did that for allan More week here.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
I grabbed those books from the library to do them
for the podcast episode. Reminded me of you when I
saw the stack of books as I was taking the
forklift back to my car.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Well, Jesse, it only gets worse from here.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
What did you do?
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Because June fifteenth, we have five trades to do the
entire Darth Vader saga from Marvel Slash Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
All right, let me take a look because I'm curious
as to how many issues.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Sunday, June fifteenth I am making because these are on
my shelf and I want to get them read. These
are the Darth Vader book. There has been a couple
of different versions of Darth Vader. This is the original
Darth Vader book from when from the post Disney lucasfilm merger,
when they when they started doing comic books. This is
that iteration of Darth Vader. There's four volumes of the
Darth Vader book, and then there's a second book that
(27:56):
is Vader Down, which.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Oh yes, I've heard of, Vader Down, which I've heard
is pretty good.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And Vader Down is a couple of different books into one.
Let me if you can find it really quick. Okay.
So Vader Down incorporates.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
East Bound and Vader Down.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, six issues. Vader Down is six issues, okay, and
it incorporates Vader Down, which was November eighteenth, twenty fifteen,
Darth Vader Issue number thirteen, Star Wars Issue number thirteen,
Darth Vader Issue fourteen, Star Wars fourteen, and Darth Vader fifteen,
Which is why I wanted to do it this way.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, all right, ten, I.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Remember why I was doing this because if you look
at the individual Darth Vader volumes, they skip those issues.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
Gotcha Vader Down, Vader Down.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Down, Vader Downtown. So that's what we're gonna be doing.
June fifteenth is Darth Vader one through four and Vader Down.
I have on my shelf Darth Vader volume one through four.
Where they don't have is Vader Down.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I have to go get that east Bound and Vader Down.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
So that's what's next here on material. And I know
Jesse cuts these up and they'll be out whenever you're
listening to this, this will have happened months ago.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Since this was twenty twenty five, folks.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, so I will just say, check out all of
my podcasts on w TWOM network. Damn you. Hollywood is
almost every single Monday, and then Thursday is either a
triple feature or a TV party. Alexis helps out with
the slop he do's the Star Wars, Marvel and the
cartoons I don't want to deal with. Occasionally I do
something with her, but I enjoy like the bear. I
(29:30):
got her to watch a Netflix show called Apple Cider
Vinegar and it's about the real true life scandal about
someone pushing apple cider. Vinegar is like a health thing.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
They've heard of the health benefits, So I'm wow, I
didn't know that this was a scam.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Yeah, there's a Netflix show about it. So I'm gonna
make her watch that. I know everyone's very excited about
this critic. This is gonna make Avengers end game. People
are coming out of the woodwork that we be a
part of our critic review, which I put you on
against you will.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
What is it the critic the critic?
Speaker 2 (29:58):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
This is the critic the sho show. I know what
you're talking about. I had no idea was on. When
is this happening?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Jesse?
Speaker 3 (30:03):
You you Mark good at fucking.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Calendar and tell me when things are happening. I just
went through the calendar a few days ago and was
looking through like, Okay, where's my name at?
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Because I need to put it on my schedule.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Just do the shows I tell you to do. It'll
be well. June, let me tell you how June is
like Mark makes Jesse do stuff month.
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Oh fantastic, it's my birthday.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
I'm acting like a big girl for the month of June.
What's my birthday? June second? So my how I want
to spend my birthday? Make Jesse do a million podcasts.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
We've got oh, I see me now? Yeah, I see it.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Okay, June first, then we've got I'm making you do
another refin triple feature of Drive Drive Bronson and non Demon.
Speaker 3 (30:42):
Oh my gosh, Father's.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Day is when we're doing Darth Vader, then the Critic
and we have a sessions and then we've got another
source material recording of all Superman stuff, because I wanted
to get all sorts of Superman in before the movie and
then the West Wing.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
But what season I'll be in there? That's season six? Yeah,
the Ultimate?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Right?
Speaker 3 (31:00):
Go seven?
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Right? Yeah? I think there's seven seasons total. Yeah, I'm all.
I started season four as we're talking about it this Thursday.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
After Oh shit, dude, yeah, yeah, buddy, I quit my job.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
I have time to watch them over the next two weeks. Okay,
fair enough, it's this Thursday, except that whenever you're listening
to this it might not even be then will already pass.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well, we're in season, we've we've already done whatever the
next thing.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
I've done talking now, that's that's where that's the most important.
I'm at Mark Radleage on TikTok. Come see clips of
the shows, Jesse, take me home. I Phil nausis.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Oh, he's feeling sick, folks.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
We're out of here. That over there is Mark Radliche.
I'm Jesse startcher. Thank you so much for joining us,
have a good night, bye bye.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
Thanks for joining us. All of this would not be
possible without W two m net dot com, so make
sure to seek them out for more podcasts. If you
enjoyed what you heard today, please feel free to share,
and we look forward to entertaining you again.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
So
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