August 11, 2025 • 36 mins
Get ready to turn up the heat—literally! Gimmick Cover Summer hits its blazing finale as the Unspoken Issues crew dives into one of the most unforgettable white-hot covers of the 90s: Fantastic Four #371! This one’s got everything—cosmic chaos, costume controversies, and Johnny Storm going full Nova. Yeah, you read that right. 🔥
Jesse, Chris, and Evan are back in the time machine, cracking open the pages of a comic that gave us not just a fiery gimmick cover, but one of the boldest (and most debated) wardrobe changes in Sue Storm's history. Add in a rogue Watcher, alien invasions, and Ben Grimm cracking wise every other panel, and you’ve got yourself a proper 90s comic stew.
If you remember the days when Fantastic Four flirted with edginess and everyone was “going Nova” to deal with their feelings, this one’s for you. So power up the Baxter Building’s time machine and join the team as they relive the issue that had the Marvel Universe—and Empire State University—burning with drama.
Jesse, Chris, and Evan are back in the time machine, cracking open the pages of a comic that gave us not just a fiery gimmick cover, but one of the boldest (and most debated) wardrobe changes in Sue Storm's history. Add in a rogue Watcher, alien invasions, and Ben Grimm cracking wise every other panel, and you’ve got yourself a proper 90s comic stew.
If you remember the days when Fantastic Four flirted with edginess and everyone was “going Nova” to deal with their feelings, this one’s for you. So power up the Baxter Building’s time machine and join the team as they relive the issue that had the Marvel Universe—and Empire State University—burning with drama.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Fun Spoken Tissues. Gimmick Cover Summer Rolls on Summertime is
here and we are hitting you with some of the
great gimmick covers from nineteen ninety. Well, you know, here's
the thing we're talking the issue. You guys are the
ones that are helping us determine what we're going to
(00:26):
be talking about. And my goodness, do we have a
scorcher for you tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Real barn Burner, Real barn Burner.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
As a matter of fact, that's Chris Armstrong right there,
Chris armstrongs on the shelf, not over there as Devin
Bevins coming in. Who came up with these pole ideas?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Was it you Evan or you Chris?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, Evan Bevans And I give you the floor here
because we want to tell these people what gimmick cover
they gimmick covers they had to choose from.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, I would like to discuss thewborate symbolism and ways
that these comics came together and fit thematically. But here's
the thing. He said to come up with a poll
for gimmick covers, and these were the only two I
could think of, because sadly I did not know about
that Superman color forms issue. I couldn't recall something else
(01:20):
like them. I mean, there's a lot of foil covers
like The first thing that came to mind was Uncanny
X Men three hundred. It's awesome, it's distinctive because it
was one of my early X Men collecting things. But
there's a lot of covers like that with the reflective
foil background. And the next thing I thought of was the
holograms for Fatal Attractions, but I believe you did an
(01:41):
episode on Fatal Attractions already and you don't like to
dip into the same well again. So I came up
with two covers that I could not think of, parallels
for Sleepwalker nineteen, which you could cut out and make
a Sleepwalker mask. Although, if you're like me, the idea
of cutting up a comic book a sacrilege, except what
if Volume two, number six? I ripped that in half
(02:01):
of my bare hands. But so there was that. Although
I believe one person on this podcast actually did cut
out the mask.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Oh yeah, not my old copy, of course.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah. I mean, if you got two copies, I understand.
But I was like, well, this is cool, but who
would do this kind of monster? And then the other
one is this Fantastic four one that I was never
quite sure if it was a really cool idea or
they were running out of ideas, but I remembered it.
It is the human torch flying directly at the reader,
(02:37):
which you can see depending on the angle and the
lighting because the whole thing is white. The corner box,
the title the World's Greatest Comics magazine. Everything is melting
as the torch goes nova, which seemed like a big
deal when I was a kid, but he seems to
go nova an awful lot. That's why I picked those
(02:58):
two covers was because everything else that I thought, I'm like, well,
that was kind of cool, But what stands out about it?
These two stood out to me because they stood alone.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, here's something that you may not have known. But
one thing that marries these two together is the fact
that Fantastic four three seventy one on sale date October
twenty seventh, nineteen ninety two. Sleep Walker nineteen October thirteenth,
(03:27):
nineteen ninety two, so within a couple weeks of each other,
are on the shelf in October.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
In the heart of the Gimmick era here and maybe maybe.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
We should edit that to say these both came out
within a couple weeks of each other, so I thought
it was great to have them face off against each other.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
At that three seventy one. The I remember it is
the white cover, and we noticed on that list it
was the first printing and the second printing is the
red cover, right, Yeah, And I was curious about that
because on the Marvel and Limited app it has.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
The cover, probably because I'm not sure how well the
white cover would show up on the app.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
That might be why I remember both existing or whatever.
But I had the white one when I was young.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Well, the results of this poll, we have a very
close close enough to wear I did the other book,
I did Sleepwalker? Sleepwalker come under one vote. It was
eighteen to seventeen in favor of Fantastic four three seventy one.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It was a competitive poll.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes it was. We had a total of thirty five votes,
so that's actually really good. Did you say, Chris that
you had picked this up off the shelf.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I never had this one. I was off Sleepwalker by
this time, probably because the Hucks by my house didn't
have Carrie It anymore. I've never had this issue. I
think I'm still without it, so I've never even read it.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, Evan, Yeah you were a reader of Fantastic four or.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yes, I had both of these pretty soon after they
came out.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Let's talk real quick about the Sleepwalker cover, because it
has to be at least discussed. A bit you mentioned already,
Evan about how you could cut this thing out correct,
And I mean that just immediately ruins the comic, which is.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Fun.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Guys, Comic books are fun, and when they're intact, yes,
they're fun. When they're in a milar bag with a backboard,
they can be fun in.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
There the only one they can be reread.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Don't destroy the cover. I didn't even know this thing
existed until Chris Armstrong posted something and I was like,
what is this? It might have been you with the
mask on, or at least you shared that later.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
On we did the Sleepwalker episode on color blindness. Since
you got yes, yes, so I.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Have that picture. I'd be sharing it every chance I got.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So you're not tearing your issue up, Evan.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Then I'm looking at them like, well, who would do this?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I even get nervous, like just seeing the fact that there,
could you push these things out or did you have
to cut it?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I don't like.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh that makes me even more nervous. Gosh, I can't
take it. I'm afraid something would knock up against it
and then poke a perforation out.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
It was pretty durable.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay. Well, yeah, like I said, I hadn't seen the
Sleepwalker comic till you guys were probably talking about it.
So did you have anything else on the Sleepwalker cover? Evan,
I'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Just that I thought it was cool, but I would
never have actually done it.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, all right, Chris, did you have anything else on
the Sleepwalker same?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
You know it's mostly I mean I did, but it
was just.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
A beat her copy those you.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Haven't heard before. And I was working at a comic
shop and there was one in the dollar box, so
I just poked the mask out. Yes, but no, it's
a cool idea, and Sleepwalk is kind of the perfect
character to have that kind of a cover gimmick, you know,
his freakish alien face. Yeah, that's been all again, Evan.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
The White Hot Human Torch cover. Yes, I don't know
if you knew this or not, but it originally wasn't
white Hot until Paul Ryan drew Invisible Woman in this issue.
Oh that's gonna come up here in a second, so
(07:24):
we'll just hold on to that one.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And then Paul Ryan went on to become Speaker of
the House. Can you believe?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I couldn't believe it. What were you saying, Chris?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I had this issue back then, but I hadn't read
it in thirty years, and so when I was going
through it again today, I was like, Oh, this is
the one. This is the issue where she breaks out
the boob window cut.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I can't believe it, man, I cannot believe it. When
I was going through this as well, I was reading it.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Sure it's okay for Power Girl.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I was reading a little bit of Fantastic four. This
is on the shelves October of nineteen ninety two. This
is happening. We covered the New Fantastic for a while back,
so this is like ten maybe close to ten issues
after that. As that sound about about twenty about twenty, okay,
all right.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
There is a New Fantastic four connection.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Let me drop the creative team and when this hit
the shelves, obviously we're talking by one vote. Fantastic four
number three, seventy one on sale date October twenty seventh,
nineteen ninety two. Our creative team, get this out of
the way first. Jesse Thomas, Tom Tom Defalco's writing penciled
by Paul Ryan, inked by Daniel Bulinati, lettered by Jack Morelli.
(08:34):
So all colored by Gina going rainy. Sorry, all right,
I'm going to go get into the summary here and
then we'll get into our notes. Is that okay?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Sounds good?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yep?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Right here we go.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
The issue opens with Read Richard's hard at work inside
the Baxter Building constructing a trans temporal reflector in an
effort to locate Alicia Masters, who has mysteriously vanished alongside
Ben Grimm and the puppet Mass. Alicia's stepfather, Reid, activates
the device, revealing disturbing footage Alicia was abducted by an alien,
(09:08):
specifically a rogue watcher named Aaron. This moment sets the tone,
combining emotional urgency with cosmic mystery. Meanwhile, tension grows on
Earth and beyond as a coalition of enemies including Piebach, DeVos,
and Elijah set their sights on destroying the Fantastic Four.
(09:32):
As these threats loom, tensions rise on multiple fronts. Read
and Sue argue bitterly with Sue, feeling neglected and unappreciated.
Their son, Franklin, observes.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
The fight, appreciated by Jesse Starcher.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Strike that note right now, might as well just cross
it out. She is invisible no longer. I'll tell you
that much. Their son, Franklin observes the fight, his glowing
eyes hinting at dangerous powers stirring within him. This is
ninety two, so he's known for being in the power Pack.
There's definitely something going on with him. He's watched his
parents fight, and then we see that one panel where.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
He's dressed.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
At the same time. Johnny Storm, emotionally exhausted from recent events,
flies over Empire State University and decides to leave the
Fantastic Four. He believes the Fantastic Four have lost touch
with modern realities and declares his intent to evolve with
the times, citing more ruthless heroes like the Punisher and Wolverine.
Maybe he can guest star in a few more books.
I think that X factor X factor.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yes, the violent X Factor team, not exactly X Force.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I guess they're edgy compared to the Fantastic Four. You
do have an X on their name.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
But just as he attempts to settle onto civilian life.
He's ambushed by Piebac and DeVos, who frees a student
named Bridget O'Neil and announce the start of their assault.
Johnny fights valiantly despite being outnumbered, launching a fiery offensive
to protect Bridget. As the battle escalates, he's blindsided by
the shocking appearance of Elijah, his estranged Scroll wife. They
(11:13):
still married. I mean, I'm sure they didn't go to
divorce court, but.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, it ended rather abruptly, so, you know, and I
don't know what the process is like on the Scroll world.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right, Elijah has been enhanced with new powers, and she
has a vendetta. Her emotional code name right, laser fist.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Gotta say, you're given short shift to these, to these
it's Piebalk the power Scroll. Oh the Devastator.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's right, oh man. Her emotional taunts and lethal blast
pushed Johnny further into crisis. Meanwhile, read Ben and Sharon
Ventura the formal Miss Marvel.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Ask you guys who that was, because I was at
first I thought it was Carol Danvers.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It was Sharon, that was the lady thing, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, And I don't even know if this is Sharon
here because she's sending messages to Piebaca DeVos.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Right, it looks like doctor Doom.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Oh so at.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
This point in time, it could have been christ Off.
I can't remember, you know, little doctor Doom, right, I
think that would have been earlier. But yeah, I was
thinking it was Doom.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Okay, and it is Sharon. Right.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
You know when I look at the word balloons, it
kind of sounds like Robert Downey Jr.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Is it Sharon that's doing it? She didn't want? Okay,
all right, Well, okay, so read Been and Sharon. They
track alicious signal to a distant alien world, where they
discover her imprisoned underneath this crazy cosmic looking let's say,
I don't want to say cosmic cube, because that's something
different I assume entirely.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
But it is an accurate description. But yes, it carries
a different weight there.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
In the roade Watcher is there as well. He unveils
the ultimate plan to trap him inside this newly created
pocket universe of his own design. Back on Earth, the
fight grows more desperate. Johnny, battered and emotionally shredded, is
attacked from all sides by Piebop, DeVos and Elijah. When
no escape and the threat of death looming, he makes
a snap decision and goes nova. His body erupts in
(13:25):
a massive explosion of white hot flame, catching fire to
the surrounding area. Sue, watching from afar, rushes to the
site in the Fantastic car. She finds Johnny weakened in
the crater, horrified by what he's done. Though she tries
to console him, Johnny is consumed with guilt over the
destruction he's caused. The story ends on a somber and
powerful note. Empire State University lies in flames, smoke billowing
(13:48):
in the sky. Johnny is devastated, not only physically but emotionally,
questioning his place in the world and the damage his
powers can unleash when push to the brink. It's a
brutal reminder that being a superhero doesn't always come with
triumphant endings. Sometimes it leaves even the strongest feeling broken,
lost and afraid of what they've become. So there you go.
(14:09):
That is our summary of Fantastic four number three seventy one.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
If only Sue had gotten there in time with a bagel.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Somehow, Crimey just shut the podcast down, surprised that I
didn't do that. I think that's why we need to
really reevaluate.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Things in the middle there.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I just you were too busy looking at one of
those drawings of Sue.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Don't stare too long, you are going to go blind.
Aaron the Rogue Watcher Evan. I don't know much about
Aaron here, can you? Obviously he's a rogue watcher.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I assume he's just he's a watcher, but he's gone rogue.
The Watchers are famous for their abowels of non interference,
and Aaron's like, I'm just going to interfere with stuff.
He was a villain in The Fantastic Four a few
years earlier. He trapped the Fantastic Four and there were
a few really weird issues where he watched their dreams
and it was like then there was one story it
(15:16):
was like a the Invisible Woman was having a dream
that Doctor Doom was going to war with Christoph and
it ended in nuclear war or whatever. It was actually
the first comic that I read with Ultron, and it
was a dream that one of the Fantastic Four was having.
It was kind of hit or miss then, so I
don't remember, and it's been a while since I reread that,
but yeah, he was around for a while. There you go,
(15:37):
the Rogue Watcher. Thank you, not just because he exclusively
spied on Rogue.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
What's he doing in a Fantastic four comic? That's crazy?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Well, he saw Sue's new costume. Yep, Aaron Watcher.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Okay, all right, let's talk about the costume here. I mean,
just like you said, said Chris, this is the issue here.
I wasn't expecting it either. This is clearly when she
first unveils it to the it's first unveiled to the readers,
and to also read who I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Did not notice it at all.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I do not know what planet he's on. But whatever, man.
Uh So, Chris, do you have any thoughts about the
costume aside from the you know, the adolescent stuff we're
viewing here?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, I was gonna say, like, yeah, it was definitely
eye opening. Whenever this costume showed up when I was
I guess it would have been thirteen time when I
was going through Marvel Unlimited to reread this. The previous
six issues before this one were Infinity War crossover issues.
I was coming through those, which is interesting because you're
(16:53):
seeing scenes from the Infinity War story play out in
the FF comic. Two issues before this, there was a
sequence where Sue is having a psychic battle with this
character called Malice, who I think is a different version
of Sue, maybe her Dark Tide or something exactly. And
(17:14):
so apparently she lost that psychic battle, so that's why
she's acting funny and has this new costume.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I didn't read the original Infinity War, but I did
read those issues of Fantastic Four, so I felt like
I was following the story pretty well.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I don't think I had any of those Infinity War
crossover issues, but when I was thumbing through, though, there's
direct stuff from the comic. It's an interesting way to
do it because you're seeing Danos pop up and kidnap
Warlock in the middle of all this stuff, and then
you're seeing it from the FS perspective. It was kind
of neat. I'm gonna have to go back and read those. Yeah,
(17:52):
I think that's why Sue is kind of changing a
little bit, having some different personality stuff going on.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, even at the end of the issue, I think
Agatha Harkness is starting to realize that her attitude is
becoming a little more cold. You're reading Fantastic Four at
this point in time, I mean, this costume ridiculous or
are you thinking it was time for a change anyway.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I don't know. With the Fantastic Four, they've got such
classic costumes. The ones that I think of is theirs
with the dark blue and the white actually weren't their
original costumes. But I mean, of all the teams to
make a uniform work, you know, bless the Avengers, Hearts
and their jackets and their jackets, the Fantastic Four costumes
(18:43):
is uniforms are the costume that was terrible, but they're distinctive.
Spider Man's got one of the greatest costumes. He's also
got the black costume. You know, Wolverine has the blue
and yellow, the brown and tan, and he also works
in a tucks and an eyepatch or a you know,
an X Men uniform. But the Fantastic Four, I mean,
it's reading Sue. It's hard to think of them than
(19:05):
anything other than the standard issue Fantastic for costume. So yeah,
I don't remember what I thought. I think even then,
I thought that seems a little ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, it's over the top.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
You think power girls reading this and going like that's
a bit much.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
What did you say, Chris, Do you think we're gonna
see Vanessa Kirby in that costume in the movie deleted scenes?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
All right, here we go.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
That's gonna honestly, that's going to be in the uh
not the Fantastic four video. That's gonna.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, that one. Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying.
Read's always had his head in his work.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I mean, all that's what you were saying.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
He's always focused on work and not giving her the attention.
It's not like she asked for attention, but she definitely
gives him crap in this issue for the fact that
he is I'll read it, I quote her, you inattentive, inconsiderate,
self absorbed, rattleheaded jerk. She is clearly seeing that Read
here isn't paying much attention.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I do seem to remember the sexy Sux costume era.
I think there was just a lot of tension between them.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Also, another big costume change coming up.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Oh is this the thing mask stuff?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh yeah, and that doesn't last very long, does it.
It's only like for like maybe a handful issues or
does that lost for more than that?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I'm cycling through now. Yeah, he would get that mask
in FF three seventy five, and let's see, by three
eighty six he looks back to his old self. Okay,
so we're probably about a year a little under a year.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
He got messed up?
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Is the last one where I see it on the cover.
Then he's not on the cover until three eighty six.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Gotcha, so he got messed up by Wolverine.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, note here is boy did Johnny make Bridget mad?
I don't know what happened in the issue previous to this,
but man, she just does not want anything to do
with Johnny Storm and then proceeds to turn into an
icicle because of whatever. Davos and Piebak do you know?
The big Nova reveal was pretty crazy. That was good stuff.
(21:23):
I mean, I say Nova reveal. What's his name says
that I think Devo says that he's getting ready to
go nova.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
What a page?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Man him at just being stark white and blasting heat out,
white hot flame. And it's not like that doesn't come
with consequences, And of course Empire State University feels the
effects and Johnny Storm. I think gonna sus able to
get to him there and deal with him as he
(21:52):
realizes what goes down what he did. But it's going
to be you know, this is Johnny Storm. Isn't going
around in a secret identity. They are going this is
the guy that just roasted half of our campus.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I want to say, maybe a Spider Man issue or
some comic I remember reading back then where it's a
reference like there's the wreckage of John's accident at Empire
State University as they're passing by that area or whatever,
so like to made sure it was probably something Tom
de Falco wrote.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So that is all my notes here. So Chris, I'll
throw it to you and then Evan, I'll let you
clean up. You probably have a little bit more there.
But what are your thoughts here? Chris?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, I did have this issue back then, probably because
of the cool cover. My history with FF is kind
of like I think the first issue I ever had
was three fifty, the one with the thing on the cover,
and there was a Doom issue that was the first
one I had with an extra size issue was part
of the Walt Simonson run. I never really stayed on FF.
(22:51):
I could go to a comic shop maybe once a
month back then. Other than that, I had to depend
on what the hooks by my house had on a
spinner ax and I'm going into with the six dollars.
I'm leaving with four comics and a slush puppy, and
the FF issue that week was the fourth best comic option.
I would get it otherwise, right, oh, I would get
it up periodically. So reading this was kind of a
(23:11):
blast in the past.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Just see him.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Airing the Rogue Watcher. I remembered him. I kind of
remembered Elijah and payback the power scroll. Some of the
coolest things about the FF is mister Fantastic just casually
whipping up this incredible machine on the phone, just like
this will allow to see in the past, you can
(23:33):
monetize this from Yeah, that's he kind of does. That's
how they keep flushes by his inventions or whatever. But
that that's something that's really cool. Johnny kind of wandering
through the campus, and like you mentioned earlier in the recap,
he's thinking about the FF being too old fashioned. Right
as Sue Don's these new duds and Ben is about
(23:54):
to have a helmet to make him look more nineties.
They're a Segnfelder, which I always appreciate.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Oh what was it?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think Ben says something like we'll have this done
by the time in time to watch Seinfeld or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Okay, nice.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Now, in his inner monologue, Johnny says, when Piebak and
DeVos Fort show up, like, these guys are tough enough
to handle the entire Pantastic Four on their own, and
now I've got to do with both of them. Then
Elijah shows up and what he calls the FF. Piewalk
and DeVos are like, we gotta get out of here,
the FF coming, But which is it? Guys? That didn't
(24:32):
only make sense, but that's all right. Reading this really
made me want to read the DeFalco Paul Ryan f
F run gets kind of an underappreciated Fantastic Four run.
I think they were on it to just like the
early to mid nineties. I noticed when I looked up
Piebac and Devas, and I think even airing the Rogue Watcher,
those are all characters DeFalco created in this run of FF,
(24:56):
so it seems pretty self contained. And you know, Paul
Ryan's nobody favorite artists. I'm sure he's very capable and everything.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
The heck of a job on Ravage number one.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Okay, but he's nothing flashy is my points. But he
gets the job done. Reading this, really, it is a
really good comic. It's got a lot of stuff going on,
planting seeds with you know, Sue kind of acting funny Franklin.
You know, something's going on with him, and Agatha's going
(25:27):
to try and figure that out, and then of course
stuff with Johnny and Elijah. It's a lot of stuff
going on. I kind of want to go back and
read the DeFalco Paul Ryan run in its entirety.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Okay, all right, haven't you have the floor?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Well, Johnny is on the cover and Sue's turning heads inside.
But the real star of this issue, make no mistake
about it, is Benjamin J. Grin The Ever Love and
Blue Eyed Thing. Look at look at this dialogue. They
figure out that Aaron's the one that took Alesha, and
you know, so Reid's explaining the Watchers and he's like,
(26:02):
but Aaron is a renegade who prefers a more active role.
Ben's like, yeah, yeah, he's a real nineties kind of guy.
And then Ben's you know, he found out that Alisha
didn't really marry Johnny, and so she's back in his life.
And then he's got Sharon Ventura, who's no longer a
thing a fide and wants to hang out with him. Meanwhile,
Ben's trying to figure out what to do. He's got
(26:24):
a you know, he's reading sewer having problems, he's got
Alicia's super villain step dad, you know, freaking out about
where she is. And another great line is that they
try to contact Hua to the Watcher to see if
he can give any intel on Aaron. He doesn't answer,
and well, shoot, it just disappeared. But Ben says he'd
(26:44):
think a guy in his evolutionary scale could afford a
blasted answering machine. And then when they're going to track
down Alisha, the puppet Master's like, well, yeah, I'm coming
with you, and they're like, oh, you better not. You
should alert the Avengers, and Ben goes, besides, somebody's got
to stay behind them, water the plants. And then and
(27:06):
then they get to where a leash is being held.
They go in this cave and there's all this machinery.
Read says, it appears to be jammed with all manner
of sophisticated technology, and Ben's like, I guess now we
got to suffer through some boring speeches. Well, they explain
how it all works.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
That was great, just great.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Being grim dialogue every time. So that's what jumped out
to me about it. There are elements of them trying
to make the Fantastic Four edgier, and honestly, even back then,
I was like, I don't think the Fantastic Four are
supposed to be edgy. Yeah, but yeah, there's a lot
of balls being juggled there. I remember DeVos, I remember
(27:42):
pie Bok. Pie Box still showed up every once in
a while, and some of the Krakoa x Men stories,
believe it or not. Oh interesting when they had their
emissaries in space and the Terra horned Mars was like
an ambassador for the Scroll Empire. Oh okay, so DeVos
haven't seen in a long time. I'm Elijah. Yeah, Elijah
showed up during Dan Slot's run I think on the
(28:05):
FF recently. So she she always pops up every now
and again. I do not remember anything about their kid, though.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I was gonna say, that's a big you know, that's
a big It's obviously talked about here. Yeah, and I
don't recall them saying anything about the kid living or
dying or anything like that, right.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I thought they were saying she was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
But well, that would makes sense.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
One thing that was neat is you know, I said
that I don't know that the ff really need to
be edgy, but I remember the idea that the Torch
was in trouble. There was an interesting story point, And
you know, I think the next couple issues are him
being pursued by like Code Blue and I think Silver
Stable's Wild Pack, and then an issue three seventy four,
which is where the thing gets slashed by Wolverine. Johnny
(28:49):
was on the run and Spider Man's like, okay, we
need to bring him in, but we need to do
this gently or whatever. But he goes to Doctor Strange
and has him reassemble the new Fantastic Four and on
the cover at least it's under the banner of the
Secret Defenders.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Oh so, well.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
That was pretty cool. I do have a post on
that on my blog with my other Secret Defender's coverage.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Now, you said that he was on the run because
of this incident. Yeah, wow, Okay, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So yeah, that was something you don't expect for the
Fantastic Four to be the folks on the run or
at odds with the authorities. You know, they're not bad,
but they're kind of like the establishment.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So just a shout out here and Chris, you're not
going to get this because of reasons, but the Ag
of the Harkness and Senior Scratchy are here. Evan Bevans
and Seniors Ag of the Harkness and Senior Scratchy get
all of your boosters. It's a Marvel Snap joke. I'm sorry, Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
All right, it was fun. I'm like, Chris, I want
to go back read some more stuff before and after this.
Like I said, this was toward the end of my
FF collecting. I've been trying to go back and basically,
you know, the early three hundred's to onslaught, I'm trying
to fill all that in because they're not very expensive.
That was kind of my original era Fantastic Four. The
(30:19):
current era of Fantastic Four being written by Ryan North
is just phenomenal, but this is a lot of fu
So I'm wanting to get to go through and kind
of fill in some of those blanks and read it myself,
all right, or reread it in some cases.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Well, I'll give you the floor to pick up panel.
You get first shots. This is your book, all right.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Let me see this one. I use the page numbers,
so it's on page twenty five, and it's the one
where all three of the antagonists, Pie, Elijah, and DeVos
are all taking on the torch and you see them
totally overwhelmed. That's a pretty darn cool panel. So I
did defer to the art on there instead of just
(31:01):
one where Ben Graham is delivering a devastating.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
All right, Chris, let's see if you take mine.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Vinyl page vinyl panel, the devastation that at the nova
blast is unleashed on Empire State University, with all the
buildings and flames they had shown earlier, how many people
were around? I doubt anybody died know that by looking
at it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
When you start looking at this, you start picking through,
like what's the damage look like? Because it's not just
like the outsides on fire. The inside of these buildings
are on fire. Yeah, but you know there are not
any charred corpses.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
But that's mine.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Okay, Well we're going to leave the big one to
the listeners then, because I've got one that's not the
one that everybody else would have probably thought we would
have picked. So the listeners, we'll just go ahead and
give you guys the He's going nova, all right, but
my person, that's a little pick. I'm surprised that I
(32:02):
thought I thought you were going to take this one,
and I'm glad you didn't. It's going to be Franklin
Richards Hey, and he is holding a Leonardo teenage mutant
Ninja turnal dolls making an appearance, not an actual one,
though Franklin always has the dolls from different universes.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
And the right, yep, right, I figured you were picking
a panel from that page, but that is not the
one I predicted.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Hey, all right, well, there it is, ladies and gentlemen.
That is our discussion of Fantastic four three seventy one.
This was our final Gimmick cover summer. It has been
a right. It is wrapped up quite nicely. So we've
done two or three. This is the third one. Go
back in the archives. You can find those pretty easily
here on the Unspoken Issues podcast. Find it on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Wolverine number fifty right.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Well cast number two there it is. There it is,
as you can tell your heart. But number two, all right,
there it is. We have We've done it. We've done it.
So let's go ahead. We'll get into plugs. Chris Armstrong,
you're gonna go up first this time. What do you
got going on over there? At Small Screeners and Because Movies.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I do a couple of the movie podcasts and my
buddy aj Small Screeners where we talk about directing video
and made for TV movies. We've done some combook stuff
on there. We did The Punishers from eighty nine. We've
done Batman Out of the Red Hood and the New
Frontier animated feature with our buddy Jesse. We've also got
on Because Movies, where we cover all kinds of movie stuff.
(33:38):
We will have put out an x Men commentary track
for the twenty fifth anniversary of the X Men movie.
By the way, you guys are both in fighted. I'll
let you know when we're gonna do it, so feel
free to jump in.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
All right, Evan Bevan's tell them all about Astros fifty
one and what you do well.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I Astros fifty one blogspot dot com is my blog
where I write about comics, movies, movies about comics, comics
about movies, other random stuff that tickles my fancy. If you, oh, gosh,
that was awful, drake's my fancy. I have a couple
of semi regular features on there, like Dollar Tree Cinema Movies.
(34:16):
I've purchased a dollar Tree Free Comic Friday looking at issues.
I have a Master of the years from Free Comic
Book Day and other special events, missing links, going back
and filling in gaps in my collection and reading them
mostly devoid of context, seeing how much I can remember,
and that sort of thing. So check that out if
you find my ideas interesting but can't stand the sound
(34:39):
of my voice.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to the
Unspoken Issues podcast where we talk about nineties comics all
the time. Go check out the Unspoken Decades. They have
a great Facebook group filled with old people that appreciate
nineties comics. Go back in the archive on YouTube or
any podcatch or of your choice, and you should be
able to find almost one hundred and fifty episodes of
the Unspoken Issues podcast Right here on the source material
(35:03):
Comics Feed. You can hear me talk about comics of
any era with a lot of guests. Recently, myself and
Mark Radlitz are talking Joker and we're probably closing in
on the end of that three story, which comprised of
let's see if we read Killer Smile and the Joker
presents a puzzle box, and then we have the Joker
(35:26):
War saga. If you get a chance to just listen
to me and Mark discuss all the fun happenings in
the world of the Joker snap material, or myself and
Evan Bevans get together and discuss Marvel snaps if you
play that on your phone. About once a month, me
and Evan get together and we talk about the previous season,
the upcoming season. We get all sorts of things wrong,
but we have a good time doing it. So if
you get a chance, check that out. And that's it over.
(35:49):
There is Evan Bevans, that is Chris Armstrong, and Chris
Armstrong's got something to say to send us out here.
I'm Jesse starter, Chris, how are we sitting this one out?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
What a revolt in development? H
Fun Spoken Tissues. Gimmick Cover Summer Rolls on Summertime is
here and we are hitting you with some of the
great gimmick covers from nineteen ninety. Well, you know, here's
the thing we're talking the issue. You guys are the
ones that are helping us determine what we're going to
(00:26):
be talking about. And my goodness, do we have a
scorcher for you tonight.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Real barn Burner, Real barn Burner.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
As a matter of fact, that's Chris Armstrong right there,
Chris armstrongs on the shelf, not over there as Devin
Bevins coming in. Who came up with these pole ideas?
Speaker 3 (00:45):
Was it you Evan or you Chris?
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Okay, Evan Bevans And I give you the floor here
because we want to tell these people what gimmick cover
they gimmick covers they had to choose from.
Speaker 3 (00:57):
Well, I would like to discuss thewborate symbolism and ways
that these comics came together and fit thematically. But here's
the thing. He said to come up with a poll
for gimmick covers, and these were the only two I
could think of, because sadly I did not know about
that Superman color forms issue. I couldn't recall something else
(01:20):
like them. I mean, there's a lot of foil covers
like The first thing that came to mind was Uncanny
X Men three hundred. It's awesome, it's distinctive because it
was one of my early X Men collecting things. But
there's a lot of covers like that with the reflective
foil background. And the next thing I thought of was the
holograms for Fatal Attractions, but I believe you did an
(01:41):
episode on Fatal Attractions already and you don't like to
dip into the same well again. So I came up
with two covers that I could not think of, parallels
for Sleepwalker nineteen, which you could cut out and make
a Sleepwalker mask. Although, if you're like me, the idea
of cutting up a comic book a sacrilege, except what
if Volume two, number six? I ripped that in half
(02:01):
of my bare hands. But so there was that. Although
I believe one person on this podcast actually did cut
out the mask.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Oh yeah, not my old copy, of course.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Yeah. I mean, if you got two copies, I understand.
But I was like, well, this is cool, but who
would do this kind of monster? And then the other
one is this Fantastic four one that I was never
quite sure if it was a really cool idea or
they were running out of ideas, but I remembered it.
It is the human torch flying directly at the reader,
(02:37):
which you can see depending on the angle and the
lighting because the whole thing is white. The corner box,
the title the World's Greatest Comics magazine. Everything is melting
as the torch goes nova, which seemed like a big
deal when I was a kid, but he seems to
go nova an awful lot. That's why I picked those
(02:58):
two covers was because everything else that I thought, I'm like, well,
that was kind of cool, But what stands out about it?
These two stood out to me because they stood alone.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yeah, here's something that you may not have known. But
one thing that marries these two together is the fact
that Fantastic four three seventy one on sale date October
twenty seventh, nineteen ninety two. Sleep Walker nineteen October thirteenth,
(03:27):
nineteen ninety two, so within a couple weeks of each other,
are on the shelf in October.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
In the heart of the Gimmick era here and maybe maybe.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
We should edit that to say these both came out
within a couple weeks of each other, so I thought
it was great to have them face off against each other.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
At that three seventy one. The I remember it is
the white cover, and we noticed on that list it
was the first printing and the second printing is the
red cover, right, Yeah, And I was curious about that
because on the Marvel and Limited app it has.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
The cover, probably because I'm not sure how well the
white cover would show up on the app.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
That might be why I remember both existing or whatever.
But I had the white one when I was young.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Well, the results of this poll, we have a very
close close enough to wear I did the other book,
I did Sleepwalker? Sleepwalker come under one vote. It was
eighteen to seventeen in favor of Fantastic four three seventy one.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
It was a competitive poll.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yes it was. We had a total of thirty five votes,
so that's actually really good. Did you say, Chris that
you had picked this up off the shelf.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I never had this one. I was off Sleepwalker by
this time, probably because the Hucks by my house didn't
have Carrie It anymore. I've never had this issue. I
think I'm still without it, so I've never even read it.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, Evan, Yeah you were a reader of Fantastic four or.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yes, I had both of these pretty soon after they
came out.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Let's talk real quick about the Sleepwalker cover, because it
has to be at least discussed. A bit you mentioned already,
Evan about how you could cut this thing out correct,
And I mean that just immediately ruins the comic, which is.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Fun.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Guys, Comic books are fun, and when they're intact, yes,
they're fun. When they're in a milar bag with a backboard,
they can be fun in.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
There the only one they can be reread.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Don't destroy the cover. I didn't even know this thing
existed until Chris Armstrong posted something and I was like,
what is this? It might have been you with the
mask on, or at least you shared that later.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
On we did the Sleepwalker episode on color blindness. Since
you got yes, yes, so I.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Have that picture. I'd be sharing it every chance I got.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So you're not tearing your issue up, Evan.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Then I'm looking at them like, well, who would do this?
Speaker 1 (06:01):
I even get nervous, like just seeing the fact that there,
could you push these things out or did you have
to cut it?
Speaker 2 (06:07):
I don't like.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
Oh that makes me even more nervous. Gosh, I can't
take it. I'm afraid something would knock up against it
and then poke a perforation out.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
It was pretty durable.
Speaker 1 (06:20):
Okay. Well, yeah, like I said, I hadn't seen the
Sleepwalker comic till you guys were probably talking about it.
So did you have anything else on the Sleepwalker cover? Evan,
I'll start with you.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
Just that I thought it was cool, but I would
never have actually done it.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Okay, all right, Chris, did you have anything else on
the Sleepwalker same?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
You know it's mostly I mean I did, but it
was just.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
A beat her copy those you.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Haven't heard before. And I was working at a comic
shop and there was one in the dollar box, so
I just poked the mask out. Yes, but no, it's
a cool idea, and Sleepwalk is kind of the perfect
character to have that kind of a cover gimmick, you know,
his freakish alien face. Yeah, that's been all again, Evan.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
The White Hot Human Torch cover. Yes, I don't know
if you knew this or not, but it originally wasn't
white Hot until Paul Ryan drew Invisible Woman in this issue.
Oh that's gonna come up here in a second, so
(07:24):
we'll just hold on to that one.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And then Paul Ryan went on to become Speaker of
the House. Can you believe?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I couldn't believe it. What were you saying, Chris?
Speaker 2 (07:32):
I had this issue back then, but I hadn't read
it in thirty years, and so when I was going
through it again today, I was like, Oh, this is
the one. This is the issue where she breaks out
the boob window cut.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
I can't believe it, man, I cannot believe it. When
I was going through this as well, I was reading it.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Sure it's okay for Power Girl.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
I was reading a little bit of Fantastic four. This
is on the shelves October of nineteen ninety two. This
is happening. We covered the New Fantastic for a while back,
so this is like ten maybe close to ten issues
after that. As that sound about about twenty about twenty, okay,
all right.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
There is a New Fantastic four connection.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Let me drop the creative team and when this hit
the shelves, obviously we're talking by one vote. Fantastic four
number three, seventy one on sale date October twenty seventh,
nineteen ninety two. Our creative team, get this out of
the way first. Jesse Thomas, Tom Tom Defalco's writing penciled
by Paul Ryan, inked by Daniel Bulinati, lettered by Jack Morelli.
(08:34):
So all colored by Gina going rainy. Sorry, all right,
I'm going to go get into the summary here and
then we'll get into our notes. Is that okay?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Sounds good?
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yep?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Right here we go.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
The issue opens with Read Richard's hard at work inside
the Baxter Building constructing a trans temporal reflector in an
effort to locate Alicia Masters, who has mysteriously vanished alongside
Ben Grimm and the puppet Mass. Alicia's stepfather, Reid, activates
the device, revealing disturbing footage Alicia was abducted by an alien,
(09:08):
specifically a rogue watcher named Aaron. This moment sets the tone,
combining emotional urgency with cosmic mystery. Meanwhile, tension grows on
Earth and beyond as a coalition of enemies including Piebach, DeVos,
and Elijah set their sights on destroying the Fantastic Four.
(09:32):
As these threats loom, tensions rise on multiple fronts. Read
and Sue argue bitterly with Sue, feeling neglected and unappreciated.
Their son, Franklin, observes.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
The fight, appreciated by Jesse Starcher.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Strike that note right now, might as well just cross
it out. She is invisible no longer. I'll tell you
that much. Their son, Franklin observes the fight, his glowing
eyes hinting at dangerous powers stirring within him. This is
ninety two, so he's known for being in the power Pack.
There's definitely something going on with him. He's watched his
parents fight, and then we see that one panel where.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
He's dressed.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
At the same time. Johnny Storm, emotionally exhausted from recent events,
flies over Empire State University and decides to leave the
Fantastic Four. He believes the Fantastic Four have lost touch
with modern realities and declares his intent to evolve with
the times, citing more ruthless heroes like the Punisher and Wolverine.
Maybe he can guest star in a few more books.
I think that X factor X factor.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yes, the violent X Factor team, not exactly X Force.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I guess they're edgy compared to the Fantastic Four. You
do have an X on their name.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
But just as he attempts to settle onto civilian life.
He's ambushed by Piebac and DeVos, who frees a student
named Bridget O'Neil and announce the start of their assault.
Johnny fights valiantly despite being outnumbered, launching a fiery offensive
to protect Bridget. As the battle escalates, he's blindsided by
the shocking appearance of Elijah, his estranged Scroll wife. They
(11:13):
still married. I mean, I'm sure they didn't go to
divorce court, but.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, it ended rather abruptly, so, you know, and I
don't know what the process is like on the Scroll world.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Right, Elijah has been enhanced with new powers, and she
has a vendetta. Her emotional code name right, laser fist.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Gotta say, you're given short shift to these, to these
it's Piebalk the power Scroll. Oh the Devastator.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
That's right, oh man. Her emotional taunts and lethal blast
pushed Johnny further into crisis. Meanwhile, read Ben and Sharon
Ventura the formal Miss Marvel.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Ask you guys who that was, because I was at
first I thought it was Carol Danvers.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It was Sharon, that was the lady thing, gotcha.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Yeah, And I don't even know if this is Sharon
here because she's sending messages to Piebaca DeVos.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Right, it looks like doctor Doom.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Oh so at.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
This point in time, it could have been christ Off.
I can't remember, you know, little doctor Doom, right, I
think that would have been earlier. But yeah, I was
thinking it was Doom.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
Okay, and it is Sharon. Right.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
You know when I look at the word balloons, it
kind of sounds like Robert Downey Jr.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Is it Sharon that's doing it? She didn't want? Okay,
all right, Well, okay, so read Been and Sharon. They
track alicious signal to a distant alien world, where they
discover her imprisoned underneath this crazy cosmic looking let's say,
I don't want to say cosmic cube, because that's something
different I assume entirely.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
But it is an accurate description. But yes, it carries
a different weight there.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
In the roade Watcher is there as well. He unveils
the ultimate plan to trap him inside this newly created
pocket universe of his own design. Back on Earth, the
fight grows more desperate. Johnny, battered and emotionally shredded, is
attacked from all sides by Piebop, DeVos and Elijah. When
no escape and the threat of death looming, he makes
a snap decision and goes nova. His body erupts in
(13:25):
a massive explosion of white hot flame, catching fire to
the surrounding area. Sue, watching from afar, rushes to the
site in the Fantastic car. She finds Johnny weakened in
the crater, horrified by what he's done. Though she tries
to console him, Johnny is consumed with guilt over the
destruction he's caused. The story ends on a somber and
powerful note. Empire State University lies in flames, smoke billowing
(13:48):
in the sky. Johnny is devastated, not only physically but emotionally,
questioning his place in the world and the damage his
powers can unleash when push to the brink. It's a
brutal reminder that being a superhero doesn't always come with
triumphant endings. Sometimes it leaves even the strongest feeling broken,
lost and afraid of what they've become. So there you go.
(14:09):
That is our summary of Fantastic four number three seventy one.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
If only Sue had gotten there in time with a bagel.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Somehow, Crimey just shut the podcast down, surprised that I
didn't do that. I think that's why we need to
really reevaluate.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Things in the middle there.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
I just you were too busy looking at one of
those drawings of Sue.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
Don't stare too long, you are going to go blind.
Aaron the Rogue Watcher Evan. I don't know much about
Aaron here, can you? Obviously he's a rogue watcher.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I assume he's just he's a watcher, but he's gone rogue.
The Watchers are famous for their abowels of non interference,
and Aaron's like, I'm just going to interfere with stuff.
He was a villain in The Fantastic Four a few
years earlier. He trapped the Fantastic Four and there were
a few really weird issues where he watched their dreams
and it was like then there was one story it
(15:16):
was like a the Invisible Woman was having a dream
that Doctor Doom was going to war with Christoph and
it ended in nuclear war or whatever. It was actually
the first comic that I read with Ultron, and it
was a dream that one of the Fantastic Four was having.
It was kind of hit or miss then, so I
don't remember, and it's been a while since I reread that,
but yeah, he was around for a while. There you go,
(15:37):
the Rogue Watcher. Thank you, not just because he exclusively
spied on Rogue.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
What's he doing in a Fantastic four comic? That's crazy?
Speaker 3 (15:49):
Well, he saw Sue's new costume. Yep, Aaron Watcher.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Okay, all right, let's talk about the costume here. I mean,
just like you said, said Chris, this is the issue here.
I wasn't expecting it either. This is clearly when she
first unveils it to the it's first unveiled to the readers,
and to also read who I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Did not notice it at all.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
I do not know what planet he's on. But whatever, man.
Uh So, Chris, do you have any thoughts about the
costume aside from the you know, the adolescent stuff we're
viewing here?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Well, I was gonna say, like, yeah, it was definitely
eye opening. Whenever this costume showed up when I was
I guess it would have been thirteen time when I
was going through Marvel Unlimited to reread this. The previous
six issues before this one were Infinity War crossover issues.
I was coming through those, which is interesting because you're
(16:53):
seeing scenes from the Infinity War story play out in
the FF comic. Two issues before this, there was a
sequence where Sue is having a psychic battle with this
character called Malice, who I think is a different version
of Sue, maybe her Dark Tide or something exactly. And
(17:14):
so apparently she lost that psychic battle, so that's why
she's acting funny and has this new costume.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
I didn't read the original Infinity War, but I did
read those issues of Fantastic Four, so I felt like
I was following the story pretty well.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
I don't think I had any of those Infinity War
crossover issues, but when I was thumbing through, though, there's
direct stuff from the comic. It's an interesting way to
do it because you're seeing Danos pop up and kidnap
Warlock in the middle of all this stuff, and then
you're seeing it from the FS perspective. It was kind
of neat. I'm gonna have to go back and read those. Yeah,
(17:52):
I think that's why Sue is kind of changing a
little bit, having some different personality stuff going on.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah, even at the end of the issue, I think
Agatha Harkness is starting to realize that her attitude is
becoming a little more cold. You're reading Fantastic Four at
this point in time, I mean, this costume ridiculous or
are you thinking it was time for a change anyway.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
I don't know. With the Fantastic Four, they've got such
classic costumes. The ones that I think of is theirs
with the dark blue and the white actually weren't their
original costumes. But I mean, of all the teams to
make a uniform work, you know, bless the Avengers, Hearts
and their jackets and their jackets, the Fantastic Four costumes
(18:43):
is uniforms are the costume that was terrible, but they're distinctive.
Spider Man's got one of the greatest costumes. He's also
got the black costume. You know, Wolverine has the blue
and yellow, the brown and tan, and he also works
in a tucks and an eyepatch or a you know,
an X Men uniform. But the Fantastic Four, I mean,
it's reading Sue. It's hard to think of them than
(19:05):
anything other than the standard issue Fantastic for costume. So yeah,
I don't remember what I thought. I think even then,
I thought that seems a little ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, it's over the top.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
You think power girls reading this and going like that's
a bit much.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
What did you say, Chris, Do you think we're gonna
see Vanessa Kirby in that costume in the movie deleted scenes?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
All right, here we go.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
That's gonna honestly, that's going to be in the uh
not the Fantastic four video. That's gonna.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yeah, that one. Yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying.
Read's always had his head in his work.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
I mean, all that's what you were saying.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
He's always focused on work and not giving her the attention.
It's not like she asked for attention, but she definitely
gives him crap in this issue for the fact that
he is I'll read it, I quote her, you inattentive, inconsiderate,
self absorbed, rattleheaded jerk. She is clearly seeing that Read
here isn't paying much attention.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I do seem to remember the sexy Sux costume era.
I think there was just a lot of tension between them.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Also, another big costume change coming up.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Oh is this the thing mask stuff?
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Oh yeah, and that doesn't last very long, does it.
It's only like for like maybe a handful issues or
does that lost for more than that?
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I'm cycling through now. Yeah, he would get that mask
in FF three seventy five, and let's see, by three
eighty six he looks back to his old self. Okay,
so we're probably about a year a little under a year.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
He got messed up?
Speaker 3 (20:52):
Is the last one where I see it on the cover.
Then he's not on the cover until three eighty six.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Gotcha, so he got messed up by Wolverine.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (21:02):
Yeah, note here is boy did Johnny make Bridget mad?
I don't know what happened in the issue previous to this,
but man, she just does not want anything to do
with Johnny Storm and then proceeds to turn into an
icicle because of whatever. Davos and Piebak do you know?
The big Nova reveal was pretty crazy. That was good stuff.
(21:23):
I mean, I say Nova reveal. What's his name says
that I think Devo says that he's getting ready to
go nova.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
What a page?
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Man him at just being stark white and blasting heat out,
white hot flame. And it's not like that doesn't come
with consequences, And of course Empire State University feels the
effects and Johnny Storm. I think gonna sus able to
get to him there and deal with him as he
(21:52):
realizes what goes down what he did. But it's going
to be you know, this is Johnny Storm. Isn't going
around in a secret identity. They are going this is
the guy that just roasted half of our campus.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I want to say, maybe a Spider Man issue or
some comic I remember reading back then where it's a
reference like there's the wreckage of John's accident at Empire
State University as they're passing by that area or whatever,
so like to made sure it was probably something Tom
de Falco wrote.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So that is all my notes here. So Chris, I'll
throw it to you and then Evan, I'll let you
clean up. You probably have a little bit more there.
But what are your thoughts here? Chris?
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, I did have this issue back then, probably because
of the cool cover. My history with FF is kind
of like I think the first issue I ever had
was three fifty, the one with the thing on the cover,
and there was a Doom issue that was the first
one I had with an extra size issue was part
of the Walt Simonson run. I never really stayed on FF.
(22:51):
I could go to a comic shop maybe once a
month back then. Other than that, I had to depend
on what the hooks by my house had on a
spinner ax and I'm going into with the six dollars.
I'm leaving with four comics and a slush puppy, and
the FF issue that week was the fourth best comic option.
I would get it otherwise, right, oh, I would get
it up periodically. So reading this was kind of a
(23:11):
blast in the past.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Just see him.
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Airing the Rogue Watcher. I remembered him. I kind of
remembered Elijah and payback the power scroll. Some of the
coolest things about the FF is mister Fantastic just casually
whipping up this incredible machine on the phone, just like
this will allow to see in the past, you can
(23:33):
monetize this from Yeah, that's he kind of does. That's
how they keep flushes by his inventions or whatever. But
that that's something that's really cool. Johnny kind of wandering
through the campus, and like you mentioned earlier in the recap,
he's thinking about the FF being too old fashioned. Right
as Sue Don's these new duds and Ben is about
(23:54):
to have a helmet to make him look more nineties.
They're a Segnfelder, which I always appreciate.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Oh what was it?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I think Ben says something like we'll have this done
by the time in time to watch Seinfeld or something
like that.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Okay, nice.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Now, in his inner monologue, Johnny says, when Piebak and
DeVos Fort show up, like, these guys are tough enough
to handle the entire Pantastic Four on their own, and
now I've got to do with both of them. Then
Elijah shows up and what he calls the FF. Piewalk
and DeVos are like, we gotta get out of here,
the FF coming, But which is it? Guys? That didn't
(24:32):
only make sense, but that's all right. Reading this really
made me want to read the DeFalco Paul Ryan f
F run gets kind of an underappreciated Fantastic Four run.
I think they were on it to just like the
early to mid nineties. I noticed when I looked up
Piebac and Devas, and I think even airing the Rogue Watcher,
those are all characters DeFalco created in this run of FF,
(24:56):
so it seems pretty self contained. And you know, Paul
Ryan's nobody favorite artists. I'm sure he's very capable and everything.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
The heck of a job on Ravage number one.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
Okay, but he's nothing flashy is my points. But he
gets the job done. Reading this, really, it is a
really good comic. It's got a lot of stuff going on,
planting seeds with you know, Sue kind of acting funny Franklin.
You know, something's going on with him, and Agatha's going
(25:27):
to try and figure that out, and then of course
stuff with Johnny and Elijah. It's a lot of stuff
going on. I kind of want to go back and
read the DeFalco Paul Ryan run in its entirety.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
Okay, all right, haven't you have the floor?
Speaker 3 (25:42):
Well, Johnny is on the cover and Sue's turning heads inside.
But the real star of this issue, make no mistake
about it, is Benjamin J. Grin The Ever Love and
Blue Eyed Thing. Look at look at this dialogue. They
figure out that Aaron's the one that took Alesha, and
you know, so Reid's explaining the Watchers and he's like,
(26:02):
but Aaron is a renegade who prefers a more active role.
Ben's like, yeah, yeah, he's a real nineties kind of guy.
And then Ben's you know, he found out that Alisha
didn't really marry Johnny, and so she's back in his life.
And then he's got Sharon Ventura, who's no longer a
thing a fide and wants to hang out with him. Meanwhile,
Ben's trying to figure out what to do. He's got
(26:24):
a you know, he's reading sewer having problems, he's got
Alicia's super villain step dad, you know, freaking out about
where she is. And another great line is that they
try to contact Hua to the Watcher to see if
he can give any intel on Aaron. He doesn't answer,
and well, shoot, it just disappeared. But Ben says he'd
(26:44):
think a guy in his evolutionary scale could afford a
blasted answering machine. And then when they're going to track
down Alisha, the puppet Master's like, well, yeah, I'm coming
with you, and they're like, oh, you better not. You
should alert the Avengers, and Ben goes, besides, somebody's got
to stay behind them, water the plants. And then and
(27:06):
then they get to where a leash is being held.
They go in this cave and there's all this machinery.
Read says, it appears to be jammed with all manner
of sophisticated technology, and Ben's like, I guess now we
got to suffer through some boring speeches. Well, they explain
how it all works.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
That was great, just great.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Being grim dialogue every time. So that's what jumped out
to me about it. There are elements of them trying
to make the Fantastic Four edgier, and honestly, even back then,
I was like, I don't think the Fantastic Four are
supposed to be edgy. Yeah, but yeah, there's a lot
of balls being juggled there. I remember DeVos, I remember
(27:42):
pie Bok. Pie Box still showed up every once in
a while, and some of the Krakoa x Men stories,
believe it or not. Oh interesting when they had their
emissaries in space and the Terra horned Mars was like
an ambassador for the Scroll Empire. Oh okay, so DeVos
haven't seen in a long time. I'm Elijah. Yeah, Elijah
showed up during Dan Slot's run I think on the
(28:05):
FF recently. So she she always pops up every now
and again. I do not remember anything about their kid, though.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I was gonna say, that's a big you know, that's
a big It's obviously talked about here. Yeah, and I
don't recall them saying anything about the kid living or
dying or anything like that, right.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
I thought they were saying she was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
But well, that would makes sense.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
One thing that was neat is you know, I said
that I don't know that the ff really need to
be edgy, but I remember the idea that the Torch
was in trouble. There was an interesting story point, And
you know, I think the next couple issues are him
being pursued by like Code Blue and I think Silver
Stable's Wild Pack, and then an issue three seventy four,
which is where the thing gets slashed by Wolverine. Johnny
(28:49):
was on the run and Spider Man's like, okay, we
need to bring him in, but we need to do
this gently or whatever. But he goes to Doctor Strange
and has him reassemble the new Fantastic Four and on
the cover at least it's under the banner of the
Secret Defenders.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Oh so, well.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
That was pretty cool. I do have a post on
that on my blog with my other Secret Defender's coverage.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Now, you said that he was on the run because
of this incident. Yeah, wow, Okay, that's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So yeah, that was something you don't expect for the
Fantastic Four to be the folks on the run or
at odds with the authorities. You know, they're not bad,
but they're kind of like the establishment.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
So just a shout out here and Chris, you're not
going to get this because of reasons, but the Ag
of the Harkness and Senior Scratchy are here. Evan Bevans
and Seniors Ag of the Harkness and Senior Scratchy get
all of your boosters. It's a Marvel Snap joke. I'm sorry, Okay.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
All right, it was fun. I'm like, Chris, I want
to go back read some more stuff before and after this.
Like I said, this was toward the end of my
FF collecting. I've been trying to go back and basically,
you know, the early three hundred's to onslaught, I'm trying
to fill all that in because they're not very expensive.
That was kind of my original era Fantastic Four. The
(30:19):
current era of Fantastic Four being written by Ryan North
is just phenomenal, but this is a lot of fu
So I'm wanting to get to go through and kind
of fill in some of those blanks and read it myself,
all right, or reread it in some cases.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Well, I'll give you the floor to pick up panel.
You get first shots. This is your book, all right.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
Let me see this one. I use the page numbers,
so it's on page twenty five, and it's the one
where all three of the antagonists, Pie, Elijah, and DeVos
are all taking on the torch and you see them
totally overwhelmed. That's a pretty darn cool panel. So I
did defer to the art on there instead of just
(31:01):
one where Ben Graham is delivering a devastating.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
All right, Chris, let's see if you take mine.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Vinyl page vinyl panel, the devastation that at the nova
blast is unleashed on Empire State University, with all the
buildings and flames they had shown earlier, how many people
were around? I doubt anybody died know that by looking
at it.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
When you start looking at this, you start picking through,
like what's the damage look like? Because it's not just
like the outsides on fire. The inside of these buildings
are on fire. Yeah, but you know there are not
any charred corpses.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
But that's mine.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Okay, Well we're going to leave the big one to
the listeners then, because I've got one that's not the
one that everybody else would have probably thought we would
have picked. So the listeners, we'll just go ahead and
give you guys the He's going nova, all right, but
my person, that's a little pick. I'm surprised that I
(32:02):
thought I thought you were going to take this one,
and I'm glad you didn't. It's going to be Franklin
Richards Hey, and he is holding a Leonardo teenage mutant
Ninja turnal dolls making an appearance, not an actual one,
though Franklin always has the dolls from different universes.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
And the right, yep, right, I figured you were picking
a panel from that page, but that is not the
one I predicted.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Hey, all right, well, there it is, ladies and gentlemen.
That is our discussion of Fantastic four three seventy one.
This was our final Gimmick cover summer. It has been
a right. It is wrapped up quite nicely. So we've
done two or three. This is the third one. Go
back in the archives. You can find those pretty easily
here on the Unspoken Issues podcast. Find it on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Wolverine number fifty right.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Well cast number two there it is. There it is,
as you can tell your heart. But number two, all right,
there it is. We have We've done it. We've done it.
So let's go ahead. We'll get into plugs. Chris Armstrong,
you're gonna go up first this time. What do you
got going on over there? At Small Screeners and Because Movies.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
I do a couple of the movie podcasts and my
buddy aj Small Screeners where we talk about directing video
and made for TV movies. We've done some combook stuff
on there. We did The Punishers from eighty nine. We've
done Batman Out of the Red Hood and the New
Frontier animated feature with our buddy Jesse. We've also got
on Because Movies, where we cover all kinds of movie stuff.
(33:38):
We will have put out an x Men commentary track
for the twenty fifth anniversary of the X Men movie.
By the way, you guys are both in fighted. I'll
let you know when we're gonna do it, so feel
free to jump in.
Speaker 1 (33:48):
All right, Evan Bevan's tell them all about Astros fifty
one and what you do well.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
I Astros fifty one blogspot dot com is my blog
where I write about comics, movies, movies about comics, comics
about movies, other random stuff that tickles my fancy. If you, oh, gosh,
that was awful, drake's my fancy. I have a couple
of semi regular features on there, like Dollar Tree Cinema Movies.
(34:16):
I've purchased a dollar Tree Free Comic Friday looking at issues.
I have a Master of the years from Free Comic
Book Day and other special events, missing links, going back
and filling in gaps in my collection and reading them
mostly devoid of context, seeing how much I can remember,
and that sort of thing. So check that out if
you find my ideas interesting but can't stand the sound
(34:39):
of my voice.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
All right, ladies and gentlemen, you are listening to the
Unspoken Issues podcast where we talk about nineties comics all
the time. Go check out the Unspoken Decades. They have
a great Facebook group filled with old people that appreciate
nineties comics. Go back in the archive on YouTube or
any podcatch or of your choice, and you should be
able to find almost one hundred and fifty episodes of
the Unspoken Issues podcast Right here on the source material
(35:03):
Comics Feed. You can hear me talk about comics of
any era with a lot of guests. Recently, myself and
Mark Radlitz are talking Joker and we're probably closing in
on the end of that three story, which comprised of
let's see if we read Killer Smile and the Joker
presents a puzzle box, and then we have the Joker
(35:26):
War saga. If you get a chance to just listen
to me and Mark discuss all the fun happenings in
the world of the Joker snap material, or myself and
Evan Bevans get together and discuss Marvel snaps if you
play that on your phone. About once a month, me
and Evan get together and we talk about the previous season,
the upcoming season. We get all sorts of things wrong,
but we have a good time doing it. So if
you get a chance, check that out. And that's it over.
(35:49):
There is Evan Bevans, that is Chris Armstrong, and Chris
Armstrong's got something to say to send us out here.
I'm Jesse starter, Chris, how are we sitting this one out?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
What a revolt in development? H
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