Truth Season on Winning Time

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hello, everybody, how are you. This is Spencer Haywood with the Spencer
Haywood Rule Podcasts, which means,you know, without me, there ain't
them, which is in the basketballworld. You know, anything that come
in to the NBA out of oneafter four what after the four years of

(00:28):
high school or three years of highschool, you come through me. And
so that rule in itself why theshow is called the Spencer Haywood Rule Podcast
is because that rule has created overthirty three billion dollars and players salary alone.
And we haven't talked yet about thethe owners and how they have grown

(00:53):
from that from that ruling. SoI have on this show, which is
so good. It's so good.I have on the show today. I
have the creator of Winning Time,mister Rodney Burns. Thank you for joining
me, sir, mister Kareem.But no, I'm sorry you had me
all confused. I thought I wastalking to Kareem, so you know you're

(01:17):
playing the role. So good.Solomon Hughes, welcome to the show,
bro Yeah, thank you for havingme. I'm excited to chat. Thank
you. And the rook how youcoming, Rookie? Oh? Good with
the Isaiah Yeah, man, you'redoing such a such an awesome job with

(01:38):
magic. So, Rodney, whathappened? How did you come up with
this book? Yeah? Well,first let me say that in order how
this all came about. Jim Heckt, who is a huge fan of the
Lakers, got a hold of JeffPerman's book. He got it to Adam

(01:59):
McKay. Adam Kay took it toHBO. They hired Max Bourne Staying who
hired me. I'm just kind ofthe spooked to set by the door.
Hello, so there you go.But I hear you. But I appreciate
that. But in regards to mycontribution, and what I saw was an

(02:19):
opportunity someone who played the game atthe lowest of levels, with the least
skill possible, but always appreciated itand realized that it was deeply connected to
African American culture and you know,black men in particular, certainly in the
period of time that we're talking aboutright now, and really saw it as

(02:40):
an opportunity to go deeper into usas black men and the struggle that walks
with the talent and actually playing thegame. And so you know, what
I've tried to contribute to the showis always when you see behavior. There's
something that's walking side ecologically with thatwhen you talk about trauma and just being

(03:02):
a black man in the society andtriumphing over that to become really great at
this game of basketball. Yeah,also in life, you know, yes,
and of the life, you know. So let me start over here
to the left, Hunter at thebottom here. You know, our families

(03:23):
go back, so we won't gointo our family hips for Solomon. But
wow, yeah, man, whata great job as Kareem the first I
mean, your first time out asan actor, my guys, And let
me just flash back a little bitso the audience won't be thinking, you

(03:43):
know, will he just making upthat skyhook? Are you just doing this?
You? You are a great playerover at cow. Talk a little
bit about your career as the basketballplayer, and then we'll go into the
character of Kareem. Sure. Yeah. So I grew up playing a game
of basketball in large part because myfather played at the junior college level and

(04:08):
then got to be one scholarship.And so in addition to him, I
had my two uncles, one whoplayed at University of Michigan, Billy who
you know, and then Calvin hadplayed at Central Michigan so growing up,
there was kind of a roadmap thatwas laid out for us, and and
I, you know, I wastall, I had some talent, and
I got to play the game andfortunate, it was fortunate to get an
opportunity to play at UC Berkeley,and it was it was around I think

(04:30):
it was my sophomore year where Ireally started developing a go to move and
it was actually a jump hook,which is kind of a variation of the
skyhook, but it definitely was inspiredby how successful Kareem had been with his
skyhook. And so yeah, soI got to you know, I was
blessed. I got to play fouryears at Berkeley, was team captain m
and then you know, I tellpeople I pieced mill together a professional career

(04:51):
for four years, kind of bouncingaround. Had a couple of looks with
some NBA teams, but nothing reallycame to fruition, which which you know,
I I look back on it andI realized there's so much that I
learned in terms of just the businessof the game. Um. But but
I but I do have to saybeing a part of this project has really
given me new eyes in terms ofhow I see the game and just the

(05:15):
history of the game, right,and so, which is why I'm just
so excited to talk with you,because how instrumental you are in the history
and the development of basketball, thisthe global game that we that we enjoy
now, I mean all of thosethings. I feel like I'm developing such
a deeper appreciation for the game now. But you shot sixty to two percent
from the field. I did.I did, Yeah, so a lot

(05:39):
of a lot enough to get intothe NBA there. Yeah, and you're
sixty eleven. You know, likeI'm like, well, what happened?
What are they doing? Yeah?I think I think it was one of
those things depends of where I likedthe game. I don't know that I
necessarily really loved it. And yeah, and you know, and so I've

(06:00):
what I should have done is Ishould have tried to leave after my junior
year because I shot sixty two percentfrom the filled my junior year. I
should have just tried and just enteredmy name and see what to see what
happened, because you know, andI really think that just the way our
college team operated was I felt like, you know, there was the business

(06:24):
of the game really seeped in toeverything we were experiencing, so it took
a lot of the joy out ofit for me, and and so yeah,
so so yeah, I feel likeI will say, you know,
my last real like try to getinto the NBA. I was. I
was in camp with the Phoenix Suns, and I really put my all out

(06:44):
there. Um, I didn't makethe team. I didn't make a Summer
League team, but I felt likeat the end of the week, I
felt like I had really put everythingout there, and so I was content
and I was ready to transition towhatever what was next. Yeah, it's
the Magic Wincy. Talk to me, Bro. You from home too,
you know, Rodney, what areyou doing? You're seeking out all Michigan

(07:08):
people. No, well, youknow, I think this show was destined
to have Quincy in some capacity.He was either gonna be Zastro or Magic.
One of the thing. You're from, right, Moskegan, Michigan,

(07:32):
Yes, sir born and Raid.Yeah, I went to school somebody the
great players who came out of Miskegan. Was it Kennedy McIntosh. I don't
know Kennedy mcinto. I know EarlMorale. Yeah, he was nineteen,
like fifties. And then we hada few other players that went and played

(07:55):
like college ball, like Terrence Taylor, Ronald Johnson, he played at usc
um Ashton Leggett. You know,those are the ones off the top of
my head. But those those likehometown heroes. I don't know if like
anybody else would know, you know, but yeah, did you play I

(08:16):
did. I played football though Ididn't play basketball. Yeah, so I
played football. Went to the senioryear six two six two sixty three.
Okay, okay, okay, Icould be Quincy. Now what fast we're
gonna put up here like like oneof them, like the game, like

(08:41):
the hand No games now, I'msaying with the you know, we're on
a show right now, so we'regonna focus on that become all okay,
okay, okay, like the arcade, like you can't even get me in
that dog, Yes, sir,What what does it feel like portraying Magic

(09:05):
Johnson? This this Laker hero,this world hero, this player that helped
steered the NBA back into focus becauseyour character, Solomon and Kareem and I
and we were like the old oldheads and we had you know, we
were in a period of in theeighties where everybody was like, you know,

(09:28):
sort of getting militant, and thenyou had the coach coming on the
scene, cocaine and stuff, andthen you have this Magic and he just
walked into the locker room. Helit it up and it was like just
this joy and Kareem and I wasone night one night talking about it.
I was like, damn, Iwish I could have been like Magic in
terms of my attitude. That's wild. Yeah, I mean, yeah,

(09:54):
honestly, tell us a little bitabout your character, how you got into
him, and how you feel aboutit. Yeah. You know, first
you do, you know, whateverresearch you can on him, and he
got so much footage out there.You just watch it and try and tap
into who he was during that period. And then you know, you get

(10:15):
the scripts that they write, andyou know, you go in and you
look at it and you see therole map to where they leading you.
Then you show up, you know, with these like with the idea of
how you um the way the characterfeels. And then you also get notes
because honestly, like playing playing Magicwas difficult for me because it was it

(10:39):
was a lot of energy that wasneeded. And like that's why I always
credit you know, rotting in Maxbeing like, hey, we need your
energy up a little bit more,you know what I mean like it because
naturally I'm just a very much alaid back dude, and Magic exactly like
Magic here, he's there, youknow, and and like just trying to

(11:01):
figure out how to tap into thatnaturally, you know, and and keep
it going and staying consistent with it. So um, I think that was
the the like one of the morechallenging parts but also the one of the
most rewarding parts, because once youget in that pocket, you know you
in that pocket. So yeah,yeah, it's been fun, man.

(11:22):
And just the reception, like again, hearing you who know him and like
and people that know him and kareemand hearing you like speak on being in
the locker room and seeing him comein and like this energy and uh,
and then it for you to say, like I did a good job,
Like that's uh, not only goodjob, sir, but a great job,

(11:46):
sir. Thank you. Man.Yeah, you're killing it. Man.
You like, have you spoke withMagic? I haven't talked to him
yet. No you haven't. Wellwe have to work on that. When
I will give him heads up becauseI think it would be nice if you

(12:07):
could have dinner with him, andsit with him and let him get some
stuff off of his chest. Butalso don't change your character, don't change
what you're doing. But it wouldhelp him as well in terms of to
understand what a great job Rodney hasdone with this movie. And and sometime

(12:28):
we get off of our god pathand I think he need to like get
back a little bit because he canmake all the millions and billions you want,
but his God's gift was that hewas saving so many Americans with AIDS
HIV. He was doing so muchwith the community and so and I kind

(12:50):
of like the last time I waswith him in Kareem, I was kind
of like scolding them out a littlebit, which you know, normally they
scolding me out, But this time, I think, with thirty four years
of sobriety, I can come inand throw my little two cinm, you
know. And the same thing Itold I talked to Kareem about your character,
Solomon. I was like, man, do you see what he has

(13:11):
done for you in terms of lettingpeople see Kareem, let him see and
get a feel of who he is. And also the Muslim community has just
been up in beauty. You know, all praises be to our love because
they are like they feel. Youknow, I can walk around my chest

(13:33):
out a little bit because of thismovie and Roden and you just man,
your history of doing this type ofthings. Man, you have done such
an awesome job. And I Woodwas going to be on the show Wood
Harris, but he's shooting a familyin Cleveland and he's too such a big
shot. Now, oh Dad,you know would and I spoke, Yeah,

(14:01):
he told me. He talked aboutit on our podcast and he spoke
very highly. That's the first timeI knew that you had any connection to
you know, actually watching the show. I was through Wood and he told
me the night before in our episodenine when he does this soliloquy after he's
kicked off of the team, thathe had spoken to you the night before

(14:24):
and that you actually gave him wordsthat helped his performance. So yeah,
I keep telling him to go forit, go for it, do it,
because young fellas, I slipped offthe I slipped off the diving board.
So and it should be talked aboutbecause I was dealing with PTSD.

(14:45):
I was dealing with a lot ofthings man that I had pushed down for
years, and I thought that bygetting involved. I didn't choose to get
involved with drugs, but by gettinginvolved at that time, Uh, it
seemed like I was sabotaging my wholelife and I didn't know how to pull

(15:07):
it out pour back, because Imean, you know, going through the
to the Supreme Court, it's ait's a it's a it's a hard journey.
And now one of the other gentlemenwho went through to the Supreme Court,
he didn't win his case, buthe did win. It was Kurt
Flood. And Kurt Flood had toleave the country because he just could live

(15:33):
in America the way they treated himafter that case. And then they turned
around and not gave him his casebut gave it to Andy Muster Smith the
next year, and Kurt came back. Yeah, he came back, and
I'm s hi, where did hego? He went to the Islands.
He went to the islands and justlived on the islands for all of those

(15:56):
years. And he came back andthey decided, well, you know,
we're gonna let all of the baseballplayers know who you are. So they
brought him around with the Major LeagueBaseball and the players like, who is
this old guy? Man? Whatdid he do for me? Why y'all
keep talking about Kurt Flood. Sohe died shortly after that, but a
broken heart, and so I alwayswas just praying that I would never have

(16:22):
to do that because it's hard.It's hard fighting this system all the way
to the Supreme Court. And Rodneyyou can attest to this, I mean,
and doctor Solomon, because you're you'rean educator. So I certainly think
the game of basketball being rooted inAfrican American culture help wears Kurt Flood.

(16:45):
Baseball and black men have always there'sbeen a different type of relationship between the
two. It's still, in myopinion, still a white game or seen
as a white game as far asa fan base is concerned. And any
time time you get what some wouldsee as rebel rousers within that there seems
to be a bigger issue. WhatI look at your contribution to the NBA,

(17:10):
and I think of when you didwhat you did to now you know,
when we were going through the GeorgeFloyd Black Lives Matter situation, the
players were about to walk out inprotests, and I doubt that had you
not done what you did, anda lot of players like yourself, if
the evolution from that period to nowwould have taken place to where players would

(17:32):
have that much of a stake inthe game, just from not just from
the free agency place, but justa voice within the game. And I
don't know if that's the same forMajor League Baseball. Baseball is different.
Let me tell you about Winning Time. We Kareem invited me down for his
seven and fifth birthday. I flewinto town and TMZ and everybody everybody thought

(17:56):
there was everybody's got this chop upabout Winning Time. I'm around the Lakers
because they haven't gotten in touch withreality to that degree, and I want
them to get there. But wewere out on the floor and then the
tunnel getting ready to go out onthe floor. So I'm standing behind Kareem,

(18:18):
and then I walked in front ofhim and we're just standing there looking
out on the floor, and andMagic was next to me. So I'm
thinking, here come Lebron with Westbrook, Anthony Davis and all of them.
They were running, they come andwalking fast towards us, and I'm sort
of like getting back out of theway, you know, like whoa let

(18:38):
them, you know, get throughthe big the big Lakers. And they
jumped on me and like, heyman, thank you, thank you,
thank you, and I'm trying tofigure out what's going on. And they
said, because of Winning Time,we know what you did for us and
who you are. Wow. Andthe same thing. I went out on

(19:03):
the floor. We were doing thehalftime event and the okay see thunder.
The players came up and said,brother, I want to thank you.
I want to thank you, andI keep saying. I asked them a
question, them again, what's what'schanged? He said Winning Time. I
said, boy, you guys havedone a great deed for me and for

(19:25):
the world of basketball because the spenciologythat has been imparted. It's good.
Go ahead, Solim. I wasjust gonna say, you know, so
I'm gonna put on my academic hatnow. So you know, my PhD
is in higher education research and policystudies, and I specifically pursued a PhD
in that area because when I wasa college basketball player, I really wanted
to look into the belly of thebeast around just the power of college sports,

(19:47):
the amount of money, the amountof influence, etc. And so
you know, when I think aboutyour story, you were being selled from
every single angle incredibly powerful and richNBA owners, the college sports system which
was totally benefiting from having laborers likeyourself working for free and bringing more attention
to their game. Right And thenyou know, I always think about what

(20:10):
really, just just just to meis the most astounding fact is that you
had other black players who were criticizingyou, and who essentially were being brainwashed
by ownership and by the league totell you that what you were doing,
which was really standing up for economicrights for athletes, particularly the black athletes,
the fact that they were, youknow, not standing up for you.

(20:32):
That's that's the part for me whenI when I think about your journey,
and like you said, Sobriety,it's like you literally had the world
against you, you know, andand and one of the things that I
think is so fascinating is I wouldbet that if you asked those specific black
players who were critical of you whenyou were when you were taking your stance,
what their experience was like in college, they would have they would have

(20:55):
looked back on it with dred youknow, I mean college athletes. Now
I mean with with and I Land there's there's more attention on just how
exploitative that system is right, butin your time, it's like y'all are
getting a free wide. You havenothing to say, right, But it's
like, you know, even yeah, even if you read Kareem's book,
he talks about it UCLA seeing,you know, how the institution is benefiting

(21:17):
from just this inflow of cash whilethey're you know, trying to figure out
where their next meal is going tocome from. And so it's wild to
think that these same black athletes thatare criticizing you probably had really really terrible
stories about their time and they werein college. So I just I just
really like Spencer, I just thinkyou are the epitome of a leader,
because I think at the end ofthe day, a leader is so focused

(21:40):
on the goal that they don't theydon't get sidetracked by by the critics.
They know what the right thing isto do and they stick with it.
And I just I just really,I mean, it's a it's you know,
it was a stand for workers rights, it was a stand for black
economic rights. It's just such apowerful, powerful story and it's it's such
a blessing that it's incorporated into theshowtime story. So you know, I
just yeah, I feel so blessedthat I got to be a part of

(22:03):
this right just to sit in thesescenes with Wood Harris while your story is
being told, etc. Yeah,thank you so much. And you know
what happened, guys, is thatthe NBA, in the NC two A,
and the ABA, they all threeof them sued me for breaking the
four year rule. And so whatthey told the the veterans in the NBA

(22:29):
is that if this young guy winsthis case, you all are going to
be pushed out on the back end, and so you have to go against
him. So my union, theNBA Players Association, did not fight with
me. They they put me outinto the cold and said you're on your
own. And so that was soweird because I'm trying to get into the

(22:56):
NBA. And also speaking of theLakers and the owner prior to Jerry Bussh
what's his name, Jack Jack KentCook, Jack Kent Cook during the court
case was saying in public, hecan't come into the leagu. It's going
to destroy the leg as we knowit now and it's going to be horrible.

(23:18):
And then he would call my attorney, which was Governor Pat Brown and
the mgm uh Frank Rothman, Ithink it was and Al Ross. So
they would call them and and say, can we get him with the Lakers.
We would want him with the Lakers. We would just pay him for
this year to sit out and justcome on with the Lakers. You don't

(23:41):
have to fight this case. Wowwow, Yeah, they were trying to
buy you out basketball. They weretrying to buy you out doing the Supreme
Court. Unice, my mother wouldsay, a fool is thirsty in abundance
of water board. Don't you beno food. You're standing up for what

(24:02):
you believe. Man. Yeah,it's good, Quince, say tell me
quins. But Bob Marley said itlater too, so ok, sort of
like I guess speaking okay, us, Uh do people recognize you now when
you're when you're walking the streets,when you're going out to the restaurant,

(24:23):
they're like, uh, quinch,oh magic, I mean you know they
confused. Yeah, well you gotit man. Yeah, I've been getting
it a lot more these days.Um. And like all positive energy,
like people just like get so excited. Uh and it's fun it's funny,
like I don't know, just um, it's weird too though, I'm not

(24:47):
gonna lie like it's weird, uh, because like you just where you're walking,
living your life and then like somebodycomes out of nowhere that you don't
really know and then they're like hey, like and it's a reaction, like
you can see how excited they are, and it's like I'm just like just
getting a drink or like some foodor something, and it just I don't

(25:11):
know. Um, it's just different, you know, it's a different life,
and I feel like I'm I'm figuringit out. So ah, you
said, what Solomon, He's growinginto a star. Come on, hugging,
holding and rock the baby with it, you know, like yeah,

(25:33):
yeah that season? You know howhard this season? You know how hard
season two is gonna be. Youkeep telling him that it's gonna be hard
on you. Yeah, I susonhead. You know all of this.
I'm working on all that right now. I know not yeah, Solomon,

(26:03):
but how do you feel when yougo out in public? Now? So
I know you're killing Kareem Man.You got his mannerism, You've got everything
about Kareem is there and you andembodied in your acting. It's like incredible.
I'm so proud, so proud ofyou. What the job you've done.
And another thing, you and Kareemneed to sit and talk and listen

(26:26):
to some jazz and kick it backbecause you got season two, so season
one. I want to know whathappened, dude, Spencer, but I
can't. I can't jump ahead Rodney. But I know I got got her.
You already know. I don't know, but I got better than everybody.

(26:48):
I don't know. Man, Igotta feeling. Yeah, So how
do you feel, solomn Yeah,you know. So I don't live in
LA until where I am in theBay Area. I think people are starting
to recognize me. Like the otherday I was I mean, I've still
kind of been wearing the COVID mask. But the other day my daughter's school,
some people came up. We said, are you Oh my gosh,
we love the show. We're watchingthe show and so. And I was
in LA for a couple of daysthis last week and and people would come

(27:12):
up to me and say, Ijust want to say, we really love
the show. You're doing a greatjob, and so it's great, you
know, it's it's respectful and it'sfunny because it's a Devon Nixon who's portraying
his father Norm would Yeah, hesaid to me right away. He said,
sent you really are going to notbe able to hide because you're like
six ten and people are gonna reallysee you in publish and so so yeah,
but it's been good. I mean, the feedback has been great,

(27:33):
and and for me, what's funis hearing people say I did not know
that, and then I went backand read more and and the other things.
I'm always telling people they need toread your memoir because it's it's so
incredible. It's such an incredible bookinstead of incredible testimony. And so so
yeah, I've been enjoying it.But you know, like Quincy said,
you know, it's it's definitely takingsome time to adjust to just because you

(27:56):
know, I'll get messages from peoplein like Brazils and we you know,
we're watching the show. We lovethe show, and it's just it's it's
wild. It's it's a real platform. Yeah, Rodney, did you think
this would have the impact that ithas having. Yeah? I did,
because you know, I'm old enoughto have seen so many sports theme movies

(28:18):
and TV shows that really didn't focuson the culture and really didn't focus on
anything other than the game itself.The physical aspect of the game itself,
that I knew that if we wereable to mix all of the various ingredients
from the game, but the cultureof the men who play the game management

(28:41):
and then by extension, how theylive their lives and the things that are
important to them, that if youadd all of this stuff in together,
and with the great cinematic team thatwe have that give it such a great
look, and the costume folks andeverybody else involved, that when you put
that all together, you have somethingthat's really really special. So you can

(29:02):
never really determine how it's going tobe received, how the public is going
to receive it. But I thinkwe all knew that we had something special,
and I think HBO has done agreat job at getting it out to
the world and marketing it really,really well. And you know, the
thing that I'm proudest of is thatevery week people seem that more and more
people watching it. The positive stuffthat's coming in from the public at large,

(29:27):
it just continues to grow. AndI think that's a testament to you
know, everybody that's involved, andespecially I say this often so guys get
ready to hear it again. Solomonand Quincy having never really done this before.
The amount of work and commitment thatthey put into this has been incredible,
and so you know, certainly whenit comes to that part of the

(29:51):
story to narrative real estate that theplayers take, those two guys really really
really stepped up big times. Soproud of everybody involved. Yeah, let's
go into some of the other charactersthat are not here today. Of course
you can talk about Wood, Harris. Let's go with first start with Wood.

(30:11):
With Harris and my character, howdid you I mean you just just
have developed it because I see Imancoming in and out of the film a
little bit. Yes, what happenedwith your character was more of when it

(30:32):
was first we read your book andwe got into how can we take this
character and say more than just becauseyou did so much that, how can
we cover all of that in aspan of five episodes? And so we
did our best to sort of tracka journey, the arc of a story

(30:52):
in the beginning of everything that youeverything that you went through with the Supreme
Court and all of that and howit affected you emotionally, and a little
bit of what you've touched on today, and then using that as the springboard
to be able to get to whereultimately we get to with the end of
the story, and then in betweentrying to highlight that you were a really

(31:14):
great basketball player as well, becauseI think that gets lost into the politics
of it and the substance abuse partof it. In between all of that,
the foundation of it is you're agreat basketball player. So trying to
sort of need all of that intoa story was the goal, and I
think we did a pretty good jobat it. Yeah, well, what
about the circumcision. Read that inthe book. Read that in the book.

(31:41):
So now that's me because you know, down in the backwoods of Civil
City, Mississippi or Mississippi, youdon't have access to a doctor. I
never had. I never saw adoctor until I was until I was fifteen
in Detroit, and I was like, that's what a doctor looked like,
Quincy. So you had to docertain things on your own. And I

(32:07):
remember my brother Andrew was telling me, man, y'all got to be circumcised.
We were younger, my brother Floydand I. So we were out
there trying to work this thing,and we were not in the house.
We were in the outhouse because wedidn't have a we had no bathroom inside
our home. So we was ata toilet way out by the pig pen.
So we were working on this thingfor days, trying to get it

(32:30):
scan peeled back, and it wasjust scruciating pain. So I finally got
described it. H So I finallygot it done. And then my brother
Floyd got his done. So wewere working together, and then Andrew the
guy who's leading us, and saidtoo hard, I'm not going to do

(32:51):
it. We were like you,mother, and so he left. So
he's walking around. He was walkingaround for years with duck butter all out
of all his penis and shit,don't go because he didn't circumcise himself.

(33:15):
And my mother would say, you'regonna have a disease of the wheenie boy.
Oh man. So yeah, circumcised, you know. And I like
that when you when you came inwith John Quinn uh yes an episode nine.
Yeah, John was you know,was this character that was in my

(33:37):
life. I mean, enough aboutmy character. Let me go into Jerry
West's character for a second. Goahead, Solomon, I was gonna say
one more thing about your character,because, like I think, one of
the beautiful things about black folks ishow we can use humor to talk about
these traumatic things. But when Iread that in your book, Spencer,

(34:00):
I've read a lot of books aboutracism, the impact or whatever, and
I was like, this is probablyone of the most silient testimonies of the
consequences of the ignorance of racism,right, like that that children are having
to do this right in a countrythat exists because of their work. Like
it's just such a I mean,when I was reading book, I slammed

(34:21):
it shut and I had to walkaway from it for like a day.
So I just wanted to share that. Yeah, but you know, for
you guys, you know, thedoctor's office would in the hospital was six
miles away from my house, butwe could not go to that doctor because
we were black. So we couldgo to the horse doctor and the farm

(34:44):
doctors, but we could not goto a real doctor. And another story
about my brother Andrew, he gotthis big toothache and he was like,
oh, man, I hate togo to doctor James, Doctor James with
the horse doctor. So he godown there to get his tooth pull out
and he said, oh you gotmore team. He kept pulling them off,
so he walked around for years.Quincy wouldn't no, no, um

(35:12):
Chris Rock, my friend Chris Rocksaid his mother used to go to the
vet, to the horse vet.What you just said, and that's where
you would go. They were inSouth cat the deepest part of South Carolina,
and that's where you would go tothe dentist was at the vet,
the horse vat. Yeah that theynever went to the doctor. Well this
is our history. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that shit is horrible.

(35:35):
Go ahead, quinn. I mean, I know this stuff is crazy.
We're talking about it because like youknow, you know, as a as
a black man, you know that, you know, we weren't treated the
best. But I didn't know stufflike that, you know, I didn't
know it got into the weeds likethat, you know. And I guess
if I would have talked to mygrandparents, they probably would have had similarity.

(35:55):
They probably tell you, you know, because it's normal. It's normal.
Normally it was. Yeah, youdon't see it as a thing.
It wasn't. It wasn't like youknow, oh my god, they are
like that. You know. Itwasn't that way. We was just wrong.
We were just like field hands.You gotta you gotta get this done.
This is what then you gotta getout here and pick up two hundred

(36:17):
pounds of cotton this morning exactly,and another two hundred pounds in the evening.
That's how I developed as a kid. Let me just tell y'all one
thing about. When I got toDetroit, I had been picking cotton from
sun up to sundown. And youpull a sack that weighs one hundred pounds,
like less than at back a quarterof a mile or a mile,

(36:38):
and then you have to put thatsack on your back, walk back to
the trailer, dumped that sack intothe trailer, and then you walk back
out into the field. So mylegs and my body had developed. And
as a cotton picker, you havetwo rolls of cotton or one row.
I was always a two roll picker. So I had left hand, right

(37:00):
hand. And so I get toDetroit and the coach put me together with
the team and said, let meintroduce y'all to our new player and son.
Boys and boys, we have beenplaying with muse. Now we got

(37:21):
us a horse. I know thisis a basketball talk. And so we're
going to win the Class state statechampionship under this boys back on this boys
back. So and I was sodeveloped from playing that I was jumping over
the rim. And we had anAll Star game down at Crunk Downtown down

(37:44):
in Detroit, and I played againstthe high school players. And the high
school players were like, oh mygod, I can't wear these Converse.
I want to wear Adidas. Iwant to wear some pro kids. And
I was like, my shoes hada hole in the bottom my converse.
I had a cardboard box and cardboardpaper in my shoes. So I grabbed

(38:07):
up all of these shoes, saidI got to send these shoes back to
my county in Mississippi, so theseguys can have some shoes because they didn't.
We didn't have shoes. We wouldwe played barefooted, you know.
And so we went out and played. I had fifteen and twenty seven,
twenty seven points in fifteen rebounds.And they were like, I'm so tired,

(38:28):
bad, I'm so tired. Idon't know how am I going to
survive this heat? And I waslike, am I gonna get another game?
I gotta get another game in.And so that's when Cassie Russell,
who was playing at the University inMichigan, said all right, come on,
let's play with the college board.Let's see what you have you know.
And so I played against them,and I had seventeen points and five

(38:49):
rebounds. And then they's like whoa, because I still hadn't I didn't have
a place to stay yet because Ijust came up from Mississippi. So then
Dave Bean says, let's see howI can how he can make out with
us? Who playing who played withthe Pistons and all of that, the
NBA players out there. So Iplayed against them and did real well.

(39:10):
And here come Will Robinson, whocam said, Freddie Snowden from Northwest and
all the other coaches, No,this is my player. I got him.
And so that's how my career startedin Detroit, Man and he adopted
me, and along with James andIdabelle, they raised me properly in the

(39:30):
family doctor Wayne Dyer, who taughtme how to sit tall and stand tall
and just talk again, because Iwould be, you know, in Mississippi
if you look, you know,the farmer in the eyes, let me
punch in the face. You can'tlook at me, and now what O'll
be eyeball in me? What's wrongwith you? So you had to look
down. So I had to learnto get my head up. I had

(39:52):
to go through books on my headbecause I was, you know, my
pastors was off and then I didballet and here I am in the list.
Fast forward the story. Here Iam in the Olympics and we're playing
against Yugoslavia for the finals for thegold medal and Quincy. I'm walking the
sideline and I'm trying to figure outwhy am I walking the sideline so nicely?

(40:15):
Because the ball was going out ofbalance and we needed to get it
back in bound, and I'm walkingthe sideline like a ballet dancing. I
threw it back in and and JojoWhite said, twinkle toes. But the
training of la you never know whenyou come out there. Yeah, jo
was talking about the Celtics. Wellone more things. You know, Will

(40:40):
Robinson ended up being the first blackcoach in Division one history. Yeah,
my coach, my dad and alsowas the assistant general manager for the Pistons
who brought Joe Dumas, Denis Rottenand all of those players to the Pistons
and Isaiah Thomas and all of thoseguys. So little history there. But

(41:05):
let's talk about pat Riley because alot of stories are talking and saying that,
well, you know, y'all embellishedon Pat Riley, But you know,
I know Pat. So I knowPat Riley, I know Jerry,
Jerry the big one, and youknow Pat was Pat. But Jerry West,
it's Jerry West. And I didn'tsee anything wrong with it. I

(41:30):
didn't see that you took truth outbecause Jerry went to PTSD coming out of
West Virginia, like I am.So he's just now getting getting himself cleared
up. And I think that theplayers that he knew and that he's that
he's going to be working with inthe future and working with now, they

(41:52):
gonna respect him for this. Sowhat do you guys think? Yeah,
I mean, I think it feelslike it's like, once you get a
narrative started, it's hard to stopthe momentum of that narrative. And like
I think from the first episode,that narrative of Jerry West being his hothead

(42:14):
and a drunk and all this,it's like once you get we in episode
nine, right now, once youget the episode nine, anybody that's stuck
with it to this point, they'relike, Jerry West is my favorite character,
like because it's such a dynamic role, and like Jason Clark is just
bodying it, you know, andyeah, and you can feel the passion

(42:43):
in his portrayal and it's and yousee why he is the way he is,
and it's like, I don't know, it's just one of them.
I feel like he's tapping into adifferent level of character, like one of
them HBO characters like Omar from theWire or there's another one, Um how
was the Ari go from um fromEntourage? It's one of them characters.

(43:07):
Risks like, it's just different,you know, And I don't know.
Yeah, well Jerry, but Jerry, Jerry was sort of like that because
Jerry, you know, you getto the final seven times in Boston,
send you back, You're gonna havean edge and you have to and you

(43:30):
have to. You have to,you know, you listen to a system
where you are the general manager oryou're an advisor to the general manager and
to everyone. You you have tobe different. You have to be a
little crazy and not crazy in thesense that you're crazy, but that's who

(43:51):
you are and embrace it and loveit. And I think the character that's
playing Jerry, he should have alaunch. I need to get get a
set up lunch of a lunch withthose two because I think that Jerry needs
to understand that this is a moviemaking. This is a great film.

(44:12):
It is. And the young guysI talked to about Jerry West, they
like, man, I like JerryWest. I'm like, that guy has
done so much for basketball. Heis the logo and he let me tell
y'all a little inside story. WhenI was going through the case, I
was looking for guys to say,hey, man, you'll be all right,

(44:36):
you'll do good. I'm backing you, but I can't back you out
front. Jerry West, Jerry West, Wilt Chamberlain, Oscar Robinson, my
guys, Yeah, da've been Thoseare my folks, you know who was
like, we got you, butwe cannot you know, we in the

(44:58):
corporate system too, we can't dothese things. But that's Jerry west Man.
And I think him watches the show. Huh. From what I understand,
he hasn't watched the show yet,That's what I was. Hasn't seen
an episode. So this is whatpeople are telling him because he refuses to
watch the show, so he believesthat it's the thing that I don't think

(45:22):
it's that at all. Yeah,well, there is there any way that
you actors and everybody get together andhave a private screening or screening for him.
Kareem Magic and those guys who arelike, you know, dragging and
thinking that they are being portrayed suchand it's only about truth. I mean,

(45:44):
I said, watched all episode,every minute, every second, and
I'm like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. And y'all se Peter
comes. You guys didn't let me. Uh, I played in two games

(46:07):
in the finals. Y'all cut meoff before I got to the finals.
I'm like, oh no, Iplayed two games. I played one less
game than Korean. Okay. Yeah. And you know them guys when they
voted on me, you know,they took my playoffs share too. Yeah.
Yeah, then they took the playoffsshare. They said. I get

(46:28):
a call. I'm getting all dressedup together to ride on the float,
and like, you know, ohman, we won this thing. Let
me let me, let me apologizeto the fans and to the people.
Sorry, buddy, you can't beon the float. I was like,
oh shit, So I had tojust ball up in or knot. And

(46:49):
then the next bad news I gotwas like, you can't go in the
expansion draft over to Dallas. Youhave to go over seas in order to
receive your contract that you have earnedwith the Lakers. Here, we want
you to get out of the country. And they sent me out of the
country and I had to go getthis passport and I'm stopping. The plane

(47:13):
stopped in Boston. The Celtic people, I told you that Lakers wouldn't yet
they have no loyalty, blah blahblah. And I was like, oh,
man, I don't need to hearthis. I just want to get
to Venice. I arrived in Veniceand I'm thinking, you know, the
bus or the limit to take meinto the water. Taxi come up.

(47:35):
Oh, we are going way outhere into the ocean. I was like,
whoa. So they loved me upand I got myself together and my
wife was able to come and visitme a lot in Italy because she was
still modeling strong so she took allof her jobs in Milan and in Bologna
and all throughout Italy and in France. On the weekend. I could run

(48:00):
up to see her in France.So it's pretty good. But the one
the one person that came to seeme from the Lakers to see if I
was surviving that I was, okay, was Bill Sharman, Yes, Quincy,
this is some history stuff. Man, I'm just hey, I'm just

(48:22):
soaking it all in, man,Okay. I noticed I get quiet because
I like, I like hearing storiesand just like being the being the world,
you know. Yeah. So mymy, my view of Jerry West
is just awesome. And Paul westHead, the character playing Paul, is
doing an awesome job as well.I mean west Head was you know,

(48:46):
he was new. He didn't hewasn't a coach like that, so he
was learning pat Riley character. It'slike, I mean, he's into it,
he's got it, he's got he'sgot fat and what's his name,
Broke Adrian Brodie. Yeah, yeah, he's got fat. Man, he's
got it down. And you guyshave just done such an awesome job with

(49:09):
this film. And my advice,and this is not to you guys,
but to Jerry West, to Kareemto magic Men, get together with you
guys and learn about this movie andwatch this movie because they're getting information from
the outside world and that's not true. It's not it's not what it's what

(49:30):
it's being made out to be.And so when people do watch it,
and I know quite a few ofmy people were like, oh, you
don't need to be watching that,you know, And I started watching it,
and I'm like, Okay, Istarted from the beginning all the way
through. And my kids are watchingit. I'm giving them, my daughters

(49:50):
giving me feedback, like and mydaughter is has just posted on her breakdown
of the whole film and my charactereverything. So it's a good thing.
It's a good and great movie.And I'm I'm just so delighted to have
you guys on them with me todaybecause I wanted to kind of clear the
air for the movie. Because themovie is a great movie. And doctor

(50:14):
bust the gentleman is playing Doctor BusHe's on it right on the mark,
Jenny busts on the mark. Salifeel, Oh my god, so me
and Sally gonna lose that way andnot make it the season two. Yeah,
but I just I'm just so proudof y'all. I'm so proud of

(50:37):
the whole process. It's just beenit's a good thing for America. It's
a good thing for basketball. Andsomehow I think we also need to get
to the guys on T and Tand at the podium. Some of you
guys need to visit with those guys, and yeah, I know Kenny.
Kenny came out to Kenny Smith cameto our roll up in Cleveland at the

(50:58):
All Star Game. Okay, Iwas I got caught up, man,
I was going to be there withthe rollout in Cleveland, but my flight
we had a nice storm and soI couldn't land. So I was like,
oh, man, I don't geta chance. I was receiving an
award from all of the players,and in fact, one of the characters
in the movie was giving me theaward. Jim Chones. Yeah, yeah,

(51:24):
oh yeah, he was there,of course. Yeah, yeah,
you guys killing it. I'm justI'm looking at you like in awe,
like these guys it likewise exactly,That's what I'm saying. I'm appreciative just
to be able to talk to youtoday, your art. I mean right,

(51:45):
I was gonna say, like andthen becoming the chairman of the NBA
Player the Retired Players Association. Yesagain, just this scheme of leadership and
care for others that has like literallyjust characterized your entire life. It's you
really are giants. Let me justsay one more thing about being the chairman
of the board for the NBA RetiredPlayers. We didn't have health insurance.

(52:09):
I went to Lebron, Chris Paul, Kevin Garnett, I mean, Kevin
Durrant, Steph Curry and those guys, and I said, man, you
know, we need some health insurance. We got guys or dying and not.
They walked away and came back infifteen minutes later. So you got

(52:30):
the same health insurance that we havenow. And it's sixteen million dollars a
year. But they don't They don'ttell people about it because they're a little
shame. But I'm telling y'all,and I'm telling the world that these young
players are on it. They areso awesome. So in closing, let's
talk some basketball. Oh okay,Brodney, Yes, give me your breakdown

(52:55):
of the playoffs right now. Myfavorite, my favorite series right now is
Memphis and Golden State. That feelslike competitive basketball at its best. Um.
I think the Sixers in Miami withJoel and b coming out in James
Harden looking like me right now,that's not That's not what I thought it

(53:22):
was gonna be. You know,when the trade went down the Dallas Phoenix,
I think Phoenix might just sweep them, you know. Um, and
what's the other one? The otherone is, um, Boston. Yeah,
that's a that's competitive as well.But I think Milwaukee's gonna figure out
a way to Uh it might goseven games, but I think Milwaukee's gonna,

(53:45):
you know, make their way through. But the thing that I love
about even what the playoffs in thegame has become is so much parody now.
It used to be where you knewwho was going to get in the
playoffs, you had an idea ofwho was going to dominate, who was
gonna win. I really don't knowright now. I really have no idea.
You don't know. Yeah, it'sso competitive, and I look at

(54:07):
I want to see Phoenix and GoldenState go at it because I feel like
they're even. But um, inthe Eastern Conference, you know, who
have a good stay get stay.I think it'll be a great series by
the time you get to the finals. What do you think about Miami?
Solomon? So, I have tobe honest, only the only series I've

(54:27):
been paying attention to is Memphis andGolden State. Okay, why because you're
living up in northern California, right, Yeah, exactly. I mean forgot
all about that way the Warriors havelike transformed in this area. I mean
just like well, I mean likesome of the most rapid fans, like
you know, Draymond fans, Clayfans, Stefans, and just yeah,
the fan bases. You know,people know that I'm from southern California,

(54:52):
and so they're like they're suspicious ofme, and I'm like, you know,
I appreciate the Warriors. I wantto see them be successful. So
yeah, well you know, thethe general manager and the guy who put
together this whole team and part ofthe whole franchise at this point, and
also build the new arena. Rick'sname is Rick Wells. He was my

(55:21):
ball boy when I was in Seattleand when I came out to play with
the Sonics, I was twenty andhe was sixteen. So I couldn't hang
out with Lenny Welcomes and all ofthose old heads. I hung out with
the ball boy. So we gotto camera picture taking day in nineteen seventy

(55:43):
I think seventy one, and Iwouldn't take the picture without my boy on
the podium with us in this uniform. So to this story, to this
day, he's the only player,only ball boy to be in a picture,
a team picture, you have topost. You need to post that
on Instagram. Yeah, okay,yeah, so Quincy, I know you're

(56:06):
a baller. Tell me, baby, what's up? Hey, I'm I'm
I'm pulling for the Suns, man. I want to see Chris Bard get
a ring. And I think theyjust got like the best complete team in
my my eyes. Also like Miamitoo though. I think I just love
a culture sleep yeah, and theyjust they just rough rouders, you know.

(56:30):
Uh. I do think the Bucksmight end up getting out, but
the East depending on I don't Iwant to say, depending on middle riddle
comes back, I think yeah,if I would definitely say yeah. But
even without them, I still thinkthey got a chance to get out because

(56:52):
your honesty, I'm time, you'rethe best player in time. The Bucks
play, they played so small whenthey are so big, And that's what
I questioned, Why are you shootingthe three? Why are you doing these
things when you are dominant? Yeah, but your front line is six to
eleven sixty nine seven one. Iwould be down low. I would be

(57:16):
a nasty person down low. Butthen y'all, the Celtics are looking really
good at the team and they havesome mojo going on. But I don't
think they can beat the Bucks,but it could happen. And I'm pulling
for Phoenix because you know, ChrisPaul was the man who gave us our

(57:37):
health insurance. He was the chairmanof the board for the Current Players Association,
so I mean, you know,but then Steph Curry was the vice
chair, so I'm like, oh, and job around and the Memphis Grizzlies.
I'm so excited about that because theybrought me. The Grizzlies brought me

(57:58):
down and gave me an award onthe floor for what I had contributed to
basketball under Damarin Luther King Award inMemphis, uh, thinking, like four
years ago. So I got connectionswith all of them, and I love
them all. It's a pretty goodthing, guys. I'm getting ready,

(58:21):
Rodney. One more thing. Yes, what happened to me? No,
oh, well, we'll see.What happened was my mic went up?
Whatever, No, don't tell,don't tell. We were gonna be after.
We're gonna air this after. SoI'm just nosy. But anyway,

(58:42):
I think you'll be happy with it. Yeah, I know. He's a
beautiful scene, beautiful scene. Man, you guys have been awesome. I'm
going to reach out to my fellowLakers and see why can't they get involved
in this part project and support itbecause it is an awesome project. It

(59:05):
is something that the young players neededin their lives, in their lives to
to feel whole, because sometimes NBAstories are not told like this. It's
not greedy, it's not like truthful, it's just a gloss over. And
so this is one that is atrue story and it is help so many

(59:25):
young players, the current players today, because they are into it. They
love it, and so I justwant to thank you all joining me on
this wonderful day and continue to continuewith the great work and let me see
what happened to Old Spence funded nightand as well and season two congratulation than

(59:52):
you really appreciate you man, Thankyou very much. It's great talking to
you today, all right, Thankyou both. Thank you your arm around
us like it's it's yeah, Ilove y'all. It means a lot,
not like a it's not like alike a light hug. This is one
of those and I feel it andI'm giving y'all this love. So thank

(01:00:15):
you, so much and God blessyou all. Okay, change the world.
Jesus can never ever saved. Thisis a change. Change the world.
Jesus can never ever the saved.This is a change.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Cardiac Cowboys

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Truth Season on Winning Time

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

Cardiac Cowboys

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

Truth Season on Winning Time

Stuff You Should Know