What does George Washington think about today’s White House

The proud author of two fictional books based on presidential history, Dan Coonan is the President and CEO at the ECAC. Michelle introduces Erika to her former boss, Dan Coonan (Santa Clara University), as they talk about everything from signing his book for his boy-hood hero to amping up ESports on the collegiate athletic landscape.
https://dancoonanauthor.com/

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
Hey Michelle, Hey Erica, howare you. I'm doing great. I'm
excited. We've got another interesting gueston the spin Shick's podcast. Well,
yes we do, and this oneis going to be a lot of fun.
But I'm gonna have to watch myp's and q's full disclosure. Dan
coon In was the athletic director andmy boss for seven plus years when I

(00:33):
was at Santa Clara, So I'lljust have to be careful that I don't
interrupt him too much. Well Imight add he was an intern and athletics
first two kind of like you andI just like us. So a little
bit about Dan coon In, whowent to Notre Dame, is a huge

(00:55):
domer fan, went to law school. Then he worked on a congression race.
He worked at an elite conference inthe Pac twelve. He was the
athletic director at Santa Clara. Heoversaw a nonprofit, and he's now the
president and CEO of the ECA C. We're gonna learn a lot about the
e C a C. But besidesthat, as you know, because you're

(01:19):
he wrote a book. He wrotea book. He wrote a book,
so he is also a novelist.Presidential Spirits is the name of the book.
Kind of a historical fiction, Ibelieve is the genre. Yeah,
and I think you can buy iton Amazon. Dan Coonan c O O
N A n U. We're gonnaget into the We're gonna jump in to

(01:42):
talk about presidential spirits, which willbe kind of fun, right he definitely
he describes himself as wearing many hats, but I mean, no joke.
You can probably add professor to that, coach, husband, father, all
of that. Well, I'm definitelylooking forward to having a conversation with your

(02:02):
old boss and a novelist and anovelist. Yes, that's what I'm going
to look at it as I'm lookingforward to talking to novelist Dan coon In.
All right, let's do it,Erica. Let's welcome Dan coon into
the spin Checks. Dan, thanksfor joining us. It's great to be
on with the spin Checks. Believeme. Well, we really appreciate your

(02:25):
time. I'm super excited about thisconversation. I know Michelle is too.
There's so much to talk about.I don't know where to start, to
be honest, Well, thanks forhaving me, terriffic. So we're going
to start with presidential spirits. Andthis is a novel that you wrote back
in twenty twenty, Dan, Iknow that you wanted to write a book

(02:47):
basically since you were six years old, I think, right. Yeah,
So yeah, when I was insixth grade, I had one of those
teachers that you wish your kids wouldhave. He was actually he was the
principle. He came in on Fridaysto teach us creative writing, and just
the way he approached it, Uhinspired me to want to be a writer

(03:09):
at sixth grade. And and I, um, um, you know,
I didn't major in anything related tothat, but I really I had something.
I wanted to write a book.In the back of my mind,
I thought, you know, somedayI'll do that. I took a creative
writing course at Nordain taught by aum, a screenwriter and a novelist.

(03:29):
Bonded with her. She um,we did a we did a short story
every week. I loved it.Promised her I would write a book someday.
Um. And then life got inthe way and thirty years went by,
and uh, I just so,what was the driving force for you
to to write your first novel?So ultimately do it? Um um?

(03:50):
I you know two friends of minewrote books, Uh. Within within two
years or so of me deciding tostart and and just seeing you know,
I know, I respect the heckout of both of them as writers and
wasn't sure I had what it took. But but I'm like, you know
what, I'll never know unless Itry, and and and so they kind

(04:11):
of inspired me. But also,um, well they inspired me to try
it. But then in terms ofwhat specifically to write about, um,
you know, I got great advice, uh, you know, write the
novel you would most want to read. And and two of my favorite stories
of all time really our Field ofDreams in Midnight in Paris. They're both

(04:32):
movies there, and they both havelike a fantasy element. Um and and
I thought, you know, um, you know, Midnight in Paris is
this author goes back to you cango to Paris in the twenties and and
hang out with Himingway and uh andGertrude Sign and a bunch of folks who
hung out in Paris. And Ithought, you know, if I applied

(04:54):
that to American history, I don'tthink anyone has done that. And maybe
maybe a president who can interact withall of his or her predecessors and U
and I coupled that with the generalconcept of our polarization. So I thought
the one part would be really cooland fun, you know, the part
would be more serious that we needto come together as a country and stop

(05:17):
this division and all and um andso I just started writing and never got
any any writer's block, just justplowed through it and loved the process.
Well, I know Michelle has readthe book, and I'm about two hundred
pages and I kind of don't wantto read it too fast, to be
honest with you, I'm trying tojust savor all the parts of it.

(05:39):
But um and I know you didmention about the main character or the main
character is Danny McFadden, who's anewly elected president under some unusual circumstances.
Without giving too much away, whatwas the hardest part about writing the book?
I mean, would you liken itto kind of like, you know,
training for an athletic competition, orare just maybe a different kind of

(06:01):
maybe pressure that you put on yourselfto to get it out. Um,
I don't know if it was thehardest part of One of the challenges was
convincing myself that I could do it. You know, you sit down and
write you know, like, whothe hell are you to write a novel?
I haven't even published a short storyor um now I've written all my

(06:24):
adult life for uh in a varietyof ways, uh, in my jobs
and all. Um. So thatwas part of part of it, just
just um believing, you know,and you have to at some point,
you have to just believe and andrealize that everyone himing Way, my guy,
uh F, Scott fish Gerald,they all started somewhere um and and

(06:46):
uh and had to convince themselves andand why not me? And so that
was part of it. Um,you know, I the writing I was.
I loved what I was writing,so that that wasn't a challenge at
all. I really, you know, I'm in all these writers groups and
now and and and a lot ofpeople do struggle with writer's block. I

(07:09):
never did, and I think it'sbecause I love the topic. And that's
my first bit of advice. Ifyou're going to write something like this,
just find a story you love andthen it just will pour out of you.
But I think finding a home,so it's I really it's three big
challenges, equal challenges by the way, writing it, finding a home for
it, publishing home or publishing yourself, or but some mechanism to get the

(07:33):
word out there, and then marketingit. All three of those are our
mountains to climb, and all threeof them have to be scaled. And
and maybe the latter two were evenharder for me than the first one.
So is there a second book inyour future? Yes? Maybe this whole

(07:55):
thing has convinced me that that Ilove doing this. And you know,
and as I you know, I'mnot saying I'm near retirement. I've still
got another ten years or more inme. But um, but I know
you but I've always thought what willI do when I retire? Yeah,
I don't love golf, you knowwhatever, uh, and um, but
I have a feeling I will alwaysbe writing a book now and I have

(08:18):
been. Yes, thank you forasking. I have been. I'm over
one hundred thousand words into a sequel. And at first I wasn't necessarily going
to write a sequel, but thefeedback I got was so great and and
a lot of people just you haveto do a sequel. You have to
do a sequel, um, AndI thought, well, I'm not going
to do a sequel unless similar tothe first one, unless I really love

(08:41):
the story, and it took memaybe six or seven months of really thinking
hard about it because I wanted todo it justice and um, and I
came up with one that I dolove and so I hopefully other people will
too. We'll see about that.But but you know, it's the journey.
It's uh and the journey is justso awesome. I just love that
two hours. It's like my work. I love my workouts, but I

(09:03):
love about two hours a day Iwrite and it's just just fulfilling, you
know. I just feel like thisis what I should be doing. At
least I convinced myself of that.That's so cool. I mean, we're
talking with Dankonen, who's the authorof Presidential Spirits. And I know you've
heard from many friends and former colleaguesand Notre Dame classmates since you published the

(09:26):
book. But we've heard a rumorthat a childhood hero of yours also asked
you for an autograph copy. Yeah, and as a huge baseball fan,
this is really cool for me,somebody that grew up in the Midwest.
So who was it? And whatdid you say in the book that you
autographed to him? Yes, soyou know this the whole thing. This

(09:50):
book has taken me crazy places Inever imagined I would be. But one
of the craziest is a request fromGeorge Brett to for an autograph book.
And um and um and um andyes, I grew up in Alsa Gando.
The Brett brothers were gods and stillare. There's four of them.
They all signed pro contracts camera humplayed for twenty years. Uh. George

(10:16):
of course won three batting titles,and we just worshiped those guys. So
the thought that I would be theirony of me signing anything for that dude
was was pretty pretty rich actually.But um, but yeah, you know
when I you know, and Iyou know, I'm one of those people
that never in a million years thoughtI'd ever signed for anything for anybody.

(10:41):
So I take every time someone askedme to sign their book. I really
want to give a lot of thoughtto it, to what the to the
brief little a couple of sentences Isay. But with George, yeah,
it was very meaningful to me becauseliterally I spent my you know, my
literally all stars. We loved himand we everybody for his whole career.

(11:01):
I followed him and I probably lookedat the box score every morning throughout his
whole career, and that's not anexaggeration, and took pride every time he
went three for four against the Yankeesor whatever. It was just felt like
like, I did you know?And and so I wrote that a very
emotional look, you know, fora kid growing up in El Segundo.

(11:24):
All of us really respected the heckout of you and felt like we lived
your career with you. And atthe end I said we had a great
run, didn't we or something likethat. So that was pretty cool,
such a great story. So Ihave to ask you, you know,
after being like I said, I'mabout three hundred pages into the book,

(11:46):
but after doing all the research thatyou said required in addition just to writing
the story itself, if you walkedinto the saloon, what two presidents would
you maybe gravitate toward right away andjust want to have that extra conversation just
too not just not this guy,this guy pretty similar, Okay, If

(12:09):
I had to just pick two,uh, and oh my god, you
know, you know, there's liketwelve come to mind immediately, but you
know, and and maybe Thomas Jefferson, uh just because he was complicated.
Uh, he was brilliant he likeda drink or two. Um and uh

(12:31):
and and just he had a verycompelling life and in a series of contradictions.
And not because I think he's thegreatest president, um, but but
just the most interesting, fascinating.So maybe Thomas Jefferson, um. And
and then maybe Teddy Roosevelt. Youknow, I loved writing that character,
Teddy Roosevelt. I mean it kindof writes itself. He's he's just he's

(12:54):
like, he's like this great coachthat you would or maybe if you wouldn't
want to play for in terms ofinspiring you. And uh and I just
you know, I just think he'sa he's a classic character, and I
tried to do justice to that whenI wrote him. So I think those
might be the first two. There'sjust two. I know that was hard.

(13:18):
I know that was hard. Well, now that we've kind of introduced
our listeners to Dan Konan, thenovelist, let's jump into Dan in college
athletics, which has also been oneof the hats that you've warned just working
in college athletics. And so currentlyyou're president of the ECAC, and the
ECAC is made up of teams fromNCAA Division one, two and three,

(13:41):
all three divisions. Can you justtell us a little bit or maybe people
who aren't familiar about the ECAC exactlykind of what what it is and what
you're doing, what you do there. So it's been around for ninety years
UM and it um the way itpresently is constructed. So is yeah,
D one, two and three.We've got about two hundred and fifty schools

(14:03):
for traditional sports we UM for Dthree, we're like the n I T
for every sport. So we havewe run championships, like forty different championships
for D three. So if andmost of them are in a different conference,
which is our primary conference, butthey come play in our championships if
they don't make the NCAA tournament.So if you don't win your conference,

(14:24):
you and you remember THECAC, youcome and play on our volleyball or softball
or soccer. Basketball. We havea basketball tournament UM. So that and
in bowl games all that for Dthree. So we have a big set,
big agenda for D three. ForD one, we have all the
Northeast schools in the D one.You know, Ivy League's a big East
Army, Navy, all all ofthem want to be with us for our

(14:48):
track and field, our cross countreeand our swimming championships, which are elite
by the way, we're just ableto run that that track and field championship,
which we're thrilled about. Um.So that's that's what we do for
D one. For two, wedo a variety of things, and then
we have specific sports that might notfit into a particular conference, like hockey.

(15:09):
We run a great hockey league,and we run a great equestrian National
Equestrian League, and we run gymnasticsand tennis and a bunch of other things.
We're looking to do potentially a waterpolo and some other sports that might
not fit into a particular conference becausethe conference might only have two or three
schools that play it, but theycan all come to the ECAC and play

(15:30):
it. So we do all thatthree and a half years ago, four
years ago, we jumped into esportsas well, and now we have over
a hundred schools for esports and we'rerunning well. Actually, that was our
next question, Like, in additionto providing traditional sport opportunities, you guys
have become a leader and esports andesports and I have just kind of recently

(15:54):
become familiar with this too, isbasically organized competitive video gaming. So can
you, um, when you tookthe job four years ago? Like what
led you down the path of esports? Right? So? Um? So
I yeah, I took the jobfour years Who I came from California.
Of all my experience of twenty yearswas was in uh traditional uh, intercollegiate

(16:15):
athletics on the West coast, thepac ten Cow and Santa Clara. Um
and I took this job, andum, it was just a new challenge.
I knew it was a challenge.I knew it was a financial challenge.
They were experiencing some financial struggles.Uh. And I knew that.
Um uh, maybe I didn't knowthe half of it, you know,
like any job, you know.And I realized pretty quick I need to

(16:37):
figure out more ways to provide valuefor a membership and um and and I
tried everything, and that's why westarted equestrian and we and all sorts that
we got into, rugby and abunch of other things, um and um.
But of all the things we tried, nothing has resented like esports.
And um and the first time itwas suggested to me, you know,

(17:00):
I had the same response that mostpeople esports. Really you know, I'm
the most unlikely person to lead thecharge for esports. I think, and
and but but I was willing totry anything and think. And the more
I thought about it, the moreI talk to our college presidents, and
they they thought, you know,some of them really got it and got
it right away and realized, youknow, this could be something that could

(17:22):
help with enrollment. It could helpwith STEM getting stemmed, you know,
smart kids for science technology. Iwas going to I was going to ask
you that do they feel like thisis something that is really future forward that
could help them with recruiting not justcompetitive athletes, but competitive competitors. Yeah,
no question, it has. It'san enrollment strategy for them, and

(17:45):
it has brought in you know,it was some sort of like Sunny Canton
will tell you nothing they have everdone as a university eclipses the attention that
they've gotten because of their esports program. And when you just think about that,
and they've been around forever, thatthat's amazing and and but they're they've
gone all in on it, uhand they've gotten a great response and um

(18:10):
and and some of these schools arenow doing um academic programming and having majors
and and things like that. Soso I decided, yeah, you know,
and my board was a little skepticalsome and not all of them.
Some of them were, in otherwords, were what what what are you
kidding me? And you know,laughing, you know, um and um.
But but they they let me.You know, I said I'd love

(18:33):
to do it, and you know, I got the approval to do it,
and we went, you know withthat first, you know, So
I sent an email to all twentytwo hundred and fifty A d s said,
Hey, if we got into esports, who would be interested? And
within two days I had twenty fourresponses in yeah we would, um and
um. And that's the beauty ofECAC. You got that many schools.
No matter what you try, somebody'sgoing to be there to say, yeah,

(18:56):
let's do it. So so Iso that first year we had twelve
schools, We had like two games, um and but it just exploded from
there, and I hired an internfrom the gaming industry just to fill in
all that I didn't know and whichwas a lot and um. And within
you know, four months, Ihired her and she's still with us.

(19:18):
And and she's killing it and soand we've gone from mom and pop,
which was like her and I toto we partnered with a firm that really
in a meaningful way funded us andjust believed in us. And and they've
got a big you know, they'vethey've just got it, got a big
capital infusion and and they've placed abig bet on us. And it's been

(19:41):
a godsend for us. And andso we we went from twelve to twenty
four to fifty eight to one hundred. We might this is schools we may
have, you know, we couldhave one hundred and forty schools next year.
And we're now running ten games.We might run as many as thirteen
next year. We had three thousand, more than three thousand participants, We
have three and fifty teams, umand and it's just just continues to grow

(20:07):
so um and so this has reallysaved us financially, not just saved us,
it's it's made us bad so muchbetter now Now we don't necessarily that
we can we can fund things,other things to really make us better now.
So it's been a godsend. Sothree thousand participants, As a former
SID, I have to ask whomanages all those stats and UM and the

(20:32):
players of the week, the playersthe MPs. Those are questions from people
with real knowledge of the industry andI love that so bart of years of
toil and I'm sure, but sofor esports, you know, it's really

(20:52):
nice because it's you know, wehave a so we have another partner called
League Spot. They are our platformand UH and and what they you know
they they they are you know,they have computer generated everything related to this
so schedule from registration scheduling and it'sSwiss scheduling because we have some schools that

(21:15):
want to be UM national champions andwe have other schools that just are barely
above club UM and and so youplay your your level of competition. So
that's a complicated thing, but it'sall in their algorithms and UH and on
their platform, you know, youcan log on, it's got your schedule,
you can go to each team,it's got their branding on it,

(21:38):
you can go to each roster,you can drill down to each each participant.
It's got all electronically, does allthe statistics, UM, the standings
UM. So they are a godsendfor us, and and we've been with
them for the last three years.Um and um, and yes we do.
Uh. We do Players of theWeek, we do all academic teams.

(22:00):
We do the same things that conferenceswere doing. We've done the beauty.
We're the only one, I think, I mean we have because we
have ten schools or I'm sorry,ten ten different games, we can do
a Chmissier's Cup. Um. Itwas you know, most conferences only have
a couple of games, so itwould make wouldn't make any sense. Um.
And so that's so we you know, but we have some schools that

(22:22):
are all in on us and they'replaying all ten of our games, and
they may have multiple teams in someof our Do you follow NCAA rules,
Do you have guidelines and manual?How do you do that? It's a
great question. Um. Um.We decided right away differently than some of
the conferences that we weren't going todo anything with the NCAA manual. Um.

(22:45):
That that the culture of the sportsin fact kind of cool, isn't
it Erica quite well? And therewere some and there were some conferences that
no, we're going to apply andsay recruiting and elgible like an amateurism.
By the way, We're like,no, no, that's that's that's gotten

(23:06):
the NCA and some trouble right now. Uh. And to do that in
esports would just be a killer,because that's not the vibe on weekends.
They want to go and play insome international tournament and make a couple of
thousand dollars. The real big time. Uh. The ones that are gonna
make millions, and some of themdo by the way, aren't going to
be in college esports. But theones that are in in college esports can

(23:29):
make some money, and we're like, we want them. Otherwise we wouldn't
have a viable credible esports platform.So uh so we so we really have
only a couple of rules really andand we'll tighten it up as we need
to, but so far we haven'tneeded to. So, Um, you
have to be a full time enrolleduh, and you have to be in
good standing and if you meet that, you can't played for ten years.

(23:52):
If you're at the school full timeand you really want to do that,
Um, you know, why wouldwe restrict it to five years? And
if you start your if you startfull time somewhere and then you go away
and work for a job for fouryears and then come back and the under
the NCA rules, you would bedone because your clock starts that first time
you your full time. Well,why would we need to do that.

(24:14):
We don't need to do that,And so we're trying to to put the
least amount of impediments in front ofthis. Uh, and you see the
reaction. The reaction has been unbelievablefor us. So um so so very
no recruiting rules. You know,the eligibility already gave it to you amateurism,
no amateurism rules. Um again,we might tighten up later, but

(24:37):
we haven't seen the need too yet. So the really cool thing about this
is that, you know, you'vetalked about the ECAC and it's the East
East Coast Athletic Conference, but inthe last few weeks you've added Boise State
and then Louisiana Lafayette just recently joinedin to be a part of it too.
So what's the future of esports atthe collegiate level? Are you going

(25:02):
to be the new commissioner? Well, so that's a great question. I
love it. So we actually solast year, uh, we just exploded
geographically. So you know, webrought in Sacks State and and by the
way and for the ECAC generally,some of our other sports are now bringing
in sports nationally. Not nothing likewhat esports is, but but like equestrian,

(25:26):
we we go well west of theMississippi and and equestrian but UM,
but we have I don't know,maybe thirty five percent of our membership now
is well outside of the Northeast andUH and for next year that'll be even
more. And we're going to havean event in Louisiana for for our schools
in the South and the Southwest andUM, and we're going to have an

(25:48):
event in South Bend for the Midwesternschools and we've got, UM, there
are schools now we're gonna you know, we've got some Big ten schools,
you know, like I said,I don't know if I said that we've
got big we got a bunch ofBig E schools. And that's because yes,
the Big Ten and the Big Eastare both doing esports, but they're
only doing a couple of games whereyou know, we may do thirteen games

(26:10):
that year. So so you cando your couple of games with with Big
East or the Big or Big Tenor the Pack twelve or UH and then
be with us for the rest ofthem. Um, and we're fine with
that. You know, there's somesome of these organizations say well, if
you're with us, you can't doanything else. And again that's another thing
that we wanted to avoid. Well, Dan, looking back on your career,

(26:33):
UM, what's what would your advicebe for people looking to follow their
passions? Because I feel like,and we've only touched on two topics,
but you just you're so passionate aboutabout both and I'm sure there's many more
things. Um, just what's yourdriving force? Um? Yeah, you
know, I I um, I'mI'll be dating myself by saying this,

(26:56):
but you know, I was incollege when Reagan was president and uh and
and people who were so um practical, you know, Oh my god,
I'm gonna get this job and it'syou know, it's gonna pay, you
know, and and and and andI just there's something I go, I
just want to love what I do, and so I kind of I went
to law school thinking it would helpwith a career in sports or politics.

(27:18):
Um. And and that has beenthe case. It has, no questions,
helped me and it's helped me allthe jobs. Um you know,
uh yeah, I I I seemto change every four or five years.
And I don't know that I recommendthat, but um, but it has
made it really entertaining, whether it'sworking with the homeless. I was chairman
of the board of a homeless uha large homeless shelter network, or working

(27:41):
in politics. I got to helprun a congressional race. And I've loved
all of those things. Um andum and and you know, they say,
gosh, if you love your job, it's it's really it's not it's
not working. And I kind ofdo feel that way. I. Um,
there's a couple of jobs I hadthat I felt like work, but
most of them I us, Uh, it was easy to get up in

(28:02):
the morning and want to attack it. Um. And I can't say enough
about that, uh, that approach. It's and but I'm I'm you know,
I've had a lot of advantages.You know, my parents. You
know, my parents sent me.It's an order to him. You know,
I had I had great college inhigh school and grade school. UM.

(28:22):
I'm not suggesting it's easy for everyoneas easy as it would be for
me. Perhaps, or I gota lot of luck along the way,
and so I feel very fortunate andand I know you can try to have
this approach and and and keep hittingdead ends if you have. If you
don't have some of those advantages thatI have, what do you do when
you hit a dead end? Like, what do you do? You just

(28:45):
say, okay, punt, let'sgo or rein. I love that question
because that's a big part of ofof learning all this stuff and whether it's
the book, because you are goingto send it to a ton of places
for literary agents and publishers, theyare gonna say no, no, no,
no no. And if you andyou have to just realize, hey,

(29:07):
next step back, you know youstrike out, Okay, just think
about the next step back. AndI wasn't necessarily wired, but that way,
you know, I'd be no.No, you know that pitch was
outside you know that kind of thing. Um. But but no, you
get this mindset and and and andabsolutely you have to you have to be

(29:27):
fearless about the failure part. Youjust I you know, I'm not gonna
I don't fear that. If youknow, if I apply for that job
and I don't get it, thesepeople are gonna know I I didn't get
Who cares? Just go for it? Go for it. There's so many
like this, and again, thebook is just easy examples. But I

(29:48):
send it everywhere, and you know, and a lot of those I never
heard back anything, but a lotof them said Okay, yeah, we'll
put it in our magazine or oryeah, we'll have you on a podcast
or on this author show or umand uh my gosh. And if I
had just at the first one saidno, I don't want to, I
don't want uh, then um,then it would have been nearly as as

(30:12):
successful as it's been. Well,Dan, Before we sign off, we
have to put you through the spincycle, which is our quick answer questions,
answer quick or that period, thisor that. Okay, all right,
are you ready? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, here we go.

(30:36):
Texting or talking talking that dates me? Okay, Notre Dame's biggas rival Michigan,
our Southern col usc Nope. QuestionJoe Montana or Joe thisman? Oh,

(30:56):
Joe Montana, love him? Lovehim? Facebook or Instagram? Facebook?
That probably dates me as well.All right, West coast or East
coast. Oh my goodness, I'ma West Coast guy. I'm a West

(31:17):
Coast guy. But doesn't mean Idon't love living in Connecticut and living on
the East Coast. I think wealready know the answer to this, but
we're just going to ask work hardor play hard, be honest, no
question, play hard, all right? In our last question, what's for

(31:38):
dinner tonight? Um? You know, we've been doing a lot of a
lot with fish and more so thanmy son probably wants Donna. We're just
trying to eat healthier and so um, we got a bunch of salmon and
I'm sure we'll cook that up inone of a variety of ways. Well,
I think I read chef was oneof the men any hats you wear

(32:00):
too, so that's why way threwthat in. But it's been so wonderful
talking to and please promise us thatwhen the sequel comes out, you will
come back to the spin checks.Of course. I would be honored to
absolutely if you'll have me, Iwill, no question, and we definitely
I think we'll be following up onyour esports success because I have a feeling

(32:21):
you're about ready to explode. Yes, absolutely, I appreciate it. I
appreciate it so much. This meanseverything. Thanks for having me, Good
luck to you guys, Love youand uh yeah yeah, and stay in
touch. Thanks appreciating. Thank you. Yep, that was fascinating. I
really enjoyed that conversation with Dankonen.Well, I can't tell you how much

(32:46):
that book. I mean, Ithink you I told you before. I've
been listening to podcasts, I haven'tprobably picked up a book in a while.
And and again, you know,it wasn't necessarily a topic that I
would read about a lot. SoI just think it's interesting that you've got
someone who here he is basically likea in sports, and he's like this

(33:07):
presidential historian. I mean, thebook is fascinating. I know we've used
that word, but it truly is. He did so much research to write,
and for him, I wouldn't evensay research because he's read so many
presidential historian, presidential biographies, typesof books. Anyway, that's his interest

(33:27):
outside of sports. You don't finda lot of people that can tell you,
yeah, I've read the book,and I can talk really well about
Teddy Roosevelt, FDR Obama. Thelist goes on and on Lincoln. I
mean, he knows intimate details fromthings that he's read and it's really interesting.
Yeah. And I think the onething too, about just being a

(33:51):
writer, I think that applies tojust so many areas in life. But
the fact that he was able tojust weave it into a story. And
again, even if you're not reallyinterest did and history, maybe that's not
the first thing that you like toread about this book is. It's just
a wonderful story. So I woulddefinitely encourage you'd like to just add to
your summer reading list or your fallreading list. It's called Presidential Spirits.

(34:14):
It's by Dan Coonan C O ON A N. And you can find
it on Amazon quick add to cartand tell us what you think I'd love
to hear. Yeah, it's reallyand it was so so much of what
he wrote about in terms of DannyMcFadden's presidential time was so relevant to what

(34:37):
has happened in the last couple ofyears in our own history. So I
found that really interesting to see whatLincoln thought about what was happening, or
what George Bush thought what was happening, or George Washington. I really found
that fascinating. So I guess fascinatingis the word. It definitely is.
And also I think the way heties in sports, because clearly sports has

(35:00):
been a big part of his life. I mean obviously he's very passionate about
baseball, and just the way hewas able to tie that tie that in
there, and then the fact thatyou know someone who's just again sports has
been his background, and then weget into this topic of esports, which
is really just a completely different kindof sports. That was also something again

(35:22):
I didn't know much about, butI'm definitely learning a little bit more every
day. So very cool how hewas able to turn that into something to
you know, help the ECAC andkind of evolve it. So again,
if you want to check out alittle bit more about e sports, you
can go to the ECC website thatis ecacsports dot com if you want interested

(35:47):
in a little bit more information aboutthat. But I think for both of
us, I think the one thingthat would resonate to is when he said,
if you love what you do,it's not a job. And so
that's just something that I think everyonecan agree with, right. Yeah,
And I think when he when weasked him the spin cycle question, work
hard, play hard, there wasno way he was going to say anything

(36:08):
but play hard. So very interesting. Well see, now I thought I
really thought the opposite because when yousee all the hats that he wears.
I mean, how can you notwork hard? But good for him for
finding that work life balance right.He loves what he does so makes a
big difference. Absolutely. Well,that was just a wonderful conversation, so

(36:30):
I'm definitely looking to looking forward tomore of those, for sure. Thank
you for listening to the spin Chicks. If you haven't already subscribed to the
podcast, and because we know youenjoyed it, leave a rating and review.
We hope you'll recommend the podcast offriends and family and maybe even your

(36:51):
dog my Baxter was still here.He was one of our biggest fans for
sure, he sure was. Andwhile you're at it, you can follow
us on Instagram and Twitter at spinChicks and let me spell that out for
you at sp I n c hI c k S and please make sure

(37:16):
you spell it correctly. We takeno responsibility if you don't none whatsoever.
Please spell it correctly. So thanksagain for your time. We appreciate it.
I'm sure Erica has a phone callbecause I know I've got a zoom
to go to. Yep, gottagotta go. Next time you next time,