May 29, 2024 • 48 mins
In this breaking news podcast (May 29, 2024), the Spin Chicks visit with U.S. Olympian Lashinda Demus. Lashinda has been collaborating with the IOC for more than a year. When the gold medal is placed around her neck in Paris’ Champions Park beneath the backdrop of the Eiffel Tower on August 9th - Lashinda will finally kiss her medal as the champion of the 400-meter hurdles race from the 2012 London Olympics. This will be the first-ever medal reallocation ceremony held at a Summer Olympic games. Lashinda reflects on being the true pioneer, how this ceremony came to fruition, what it’s been like the last couple of years and more. She also gives us a preview of some of her picks for Paris Gold Medals as well.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:07):
Welcome to the Simchicks podcast. I'mErica and I'm here today with my co
host Michelle, and we've got aspecial edition what we call a breaking news
podcast for you today, and I'mgonna let Michelle tell a little bit more
about it. You may have heardus record some podcasts with what we call
the Gamecock Divas, but this oneis very close to Michelle's heart. So
(00:31):
Michelle tell us a little bit moreabout our show today. Well, this
is a really exciting one and todaywe're going to talk about today on our
podcast because today the International Olympic Committeehas released that they are going to present
Liscinda Demas US Olympian, along withothers, her gold medal in the first
(00:53):
ever Games reacclamation ceremony, and thisceremony will take place at the of the
Eiffel Tower and Champions Park in Parison August ninth. And we're super excited
to have Lashinda Demas on with ustoday. Listeneda as you know if you've
listened to our podcast before, andif not, that's all right. Lashinda
(01:15):
Demas is a University of South Carolinagraduate and was on their first national championship
team and has become a good friendof mine after I was her sports information
person at South Carolina. So we'rereally excited to have her on today.
This is a really big deal.She's a pioneer in her sport, a
(01:36):
pioneer in all of the Olympics becausethis is the first time ever the IOC
will be doing a reacclamation where theytake a medal that was won by someone
else that was taken away in thiscase due to doping and re reward that
medal, and so we're really excitedto have her on today to talk about
(01:56):
that. And so just for thelisteners, this incident happened at at the
twenty twelve Olympics in London, sowe're dealing with a long process here and
Lishenda will tell us more about that, but basically, she won the silver
and then the gold medalist was strippedof her gold and so now they're going
(02:19):
to award her that gold and sowe'll find out more about that, but
just really excited to share this breakingnews with you all today, So let's
dive in. Yeah, I'm reallyexcited about talking to Lushindas. But when
she finally gets that gold medal,it will have been four thousand three hundred
and fifty seven days in the making. Well, thank you very much for
(02:39):
joining us today, Lisctinda Demas.We know that this is a huge day
for you, both personally and professionally, but your journey is not over,
so thanks for being here today withus. I am so happy to be
here and I guess this is theprime time to be here, right,
so thank you a prime time tocatch up. So the International Olympic Committee
(03:04):
announced today that Leshinda Demas, ourguest, will be awarded the gold medal
on August ninth at Champions Park atthe foot of the Eiffel Tower. It
will have been exactly four thousand,three hundred and fifty seven days since that
four hundred hurdles race at the LondonOlympics in twenty twelve. Like we said,
(03:28):
Leshinda, it's been a long roadto this announcement. What's your initial
reaction to them making this announcement today, Macipo, cool, savabien, but
no, it's a long time coming, and I think that I'm more so
excited because I have four phenomenal sonsthat get to experience that with me.
(03:52):
Because if it wasn't for them,I don't think the excitement will be there,
So this is a great family momentin mess Mess. Well, this
is the very first time that theIOC will hold a metal real allocation ceremony
at an Olympic Games. And Leshinda, You've worked so hard with the IOC
(04:16):
and the us OPC to make thishappen. How does it feel to be
looked at it is a true pioneerin this situation, you know. I
think that's one of the things thatkind of as a kid, I've always
stood out a little bit. Ialways wanted to be a little bit different.
I always wanted to be the firstto do something. It was something
(04:40):
that was naturally in me as akid. I can remember being five years
old thinking I want to be thefastest in the world, and like,
what little kid thinks that? SoI think I knew what I was behind
by initiating the process of this.I do not. I can't remember feeling
that it would be great of aresponse and them responding as well. But
(05:03):
I knew that it was a bigdeal and I knew that some recognition would
come behind it too. So I'mexcited and you really are the pioneer of
this. I mean, I spoketo someone recently and they compared you to
Billy Jean King. They said,you know, this has never been done
at the Olympic Games before the givinga medal to someone after the fact.
(05:26):
This is a very first time andyou're really the one that spearheaded this.
And we're going to talk some moreabout that. But how does it feel
to be compared with like somebody likethat that's a pioneer in their sport?
Love Billy Jean King met her.I was a part of the Women's Sports
Foundation, the banquets and the organizationlove Her. It's an honor. It's
(05:50):
an honor to be compared to Billyjan King. And I think, especially
as a woman, you always lookfor something that is judged off of your
like accolades and nothing else physical,you know what I mean. So even
outside of the sport and doing aphysical action, I'm glad to do something
(06:10):
that you can just place aside andbe a part of. So I knew,
I knew that this would be big. I'm grateful and happy that I'm
able to help with other athletes becausenow that's what I have in me,
my willingness to give back, mywillingness to push athletes forward, and that's
(06:32):
why I'm coaching as well in highschool. I love the fact that I
get to like foreign to them.So it's a lot of things that factor
into my decision with like moving forwardwith this, because at one point I
didn't really care, but this ispart of the reason to help others and
be that staple. Great. Solet's go back a couple of years because
this student just come about today.A couple of years ago, the Russian
(06:57):
four hundred four hundred meter from RussiaNatalia Antuk was stripped of the gold medal
from the twenty twelve Games due todoping. This was in October of twenty
twenty two. In March of twentytwenty three, the IOC came out and
announced, after a lot of conversationsthat you would be awarded the gold medal.
(07:20):
I want to know where were youwhen you heard this in October and
who told you? I'm sorry inMarch in October and March, but who
told you that you would be gettingthe gold medal? How did you find
out? Take us through? Didyou know it was coming or did it
just happen? I absolutely did notknow it was coming. I think I
(07:41):
was at track practice at another highschool that I coached at, and I
received like a text message from afriend that seen the news article, so
I wasn't even aware of anything.I had to google myself in order to
understand what they were talking about.I'm like, what's going on? And
so then I read it, andyou know, it's one of those things
(08:03):
where you're not happy that someone getsbusted for anything, but because the fact
remains that the race happened years ago, and in that moment, you lost
the race. So it's kind ofI can't explain you don't feel vindicated in
(08:24):
that way, But I guess itwas more so of how can I explain
it a neutral moment for me.I wasn't happy, I wasn't sad,
but I am fair and I feellike, okay, this is fair,
and I think that's what I waswith. Did your phone blow up that
day? I mean, I knowI and called you a bunch of did
(08:46):
was she calling me back? ButI didn't even think, Oh, everybody
else in the world is finding thisout too. It did, and including
my family, and I couldn't getthem give them any answers. And that's
another reason why I kind of waslike, Okay, this is ridiculous.
We have to do something about this. Like I can't even give people answers
that they're asking me because I hadno clue. So that's another reason why
(09:07):
I pushed for like this whole processin going to the Olympic Games to receive
the medal. Well, when Michelleand I were when Michelle was telling me
a little bit about the background,because I was a little bit familiar but
not much in detail, and shewas sharing with me a lot of more
of the details, and she hadmentioned that, you you know, had
dreams of the IOC presenting the medalto you, you know, in the
(09:31):
Olympic stadium, like recreating this momentthat you didn't have in London at the
upcoming twenty twenty four Games. Butyou have worked, you know, tirelessly
with the IOC for this metal ceremonythat would recognize not only you, but
the other two medalists, Susanna Haynovaof the Czech Republic and Kalis Spencer of
Jamaica. So can you tell usa little bit about the process during the
(09:54):
last two years, like the thingsyou had to go through to help make
this ceremony that's happening, How yougot to this point where you're going to
receive that medal and where it's goingto be. Yeah. So the USATF
via the IOC was reached out tome asking to mail the medal and I'm
like, wait, wait, mailthe mail the medal, Like I'm confused.
(10:16):
We skipped a lot of steps,conversations all of that, and this
is literally they had me like thisand I'm like, I don't know what
you mean, like, no,you just send it. We're going to
send you to go medal. I'mlike wait, wait, wait, and
then that's it and he was like, uh, I don't know, let
me get back to you. Soit was it was a bunch of those
type of conversations at first, andI'm like, why would I send the
(10:39):
medal? I'm like that means thatI'm going to be swept under the rug,
put to the back burner if Ijust give the medal without having any
answers. And so I reached outto like a colleague of mine. I'm
like, hey, I need arecommendation for a lawyer. I need an
international lawyer immediately. So this persongave me a recommendation. I reached out
(11:00):
to the lawyer, which was RubenJavier Rubinstein. He has worked on UH
different track cases and so he wasfamiliar with the sport, UH, familiar
with the process with the IOC andeverything, and so once we spoke about
it, he was like, oh, I would love to work with you.
So that was that was that.It wasn't a lot of like battles
(11:26):
per se, but it was justa lot of conversations, a lot of
back and forth, a lot ofquestions, and I think that the IOC
knew that it was serious. OnceI brought in Javier, they understood like,
Okay, she's serious. And webrought in the other two hurdlers,
the quarter hurdlers from the race also, and that was Javier's recommendation. Maybe
(11:50):
I should say, mister Rubinstein,that's his recommendation. He's like, do
you have access to the other medalists. I'm like, yeah, I can
go on Instagram and Ben and thenwe follow each other sometimes we comment on
each other pages. So I nowreached out to both of them and they
both were like, let's go.So we had calls together all three medalists
(12:11):
with the lawyer him explaining the process, explaining what he's going to do,
and that's what it was so ashe had conversations, he would keep us
all in the loop when there wasthings that needed to be discussed as far
as all of us is getting themetal. If we agree to how we
want to get the medal and soforth, we will have those conversations together.
And we basically agreed on everything.And then the process started to take
(12:35):
a very long time, and Calicekind of was like, I'm backing out
of this. This is too much. My governing body is pressuring me to
send my medal back, They're pressuringme to pick a ceremony, and I'm
just tired of dealing with this.And she's like, I'm ready to back
out. And it was like atthat moment, maybe a couple of months
(12:56):
after that that we received like,hey, this is what we're gonna do.
So she almost didn't want to finishthe whole process because it was that
long, but here we are.So it happened. So a lot of
conversations, a lot of questions thatI wanted to get answered, and honestly,
they weren't prepared to answer some ofthe questions and they had to go
(13:18):
back and figure out how they cananswer the questions properly. So I think
that's what took so long. Itwas so many people that we had to
speak to to get everything in order, but we made it. Yeah,
And you know from this particular Olympics, from the London twenty twenty I'm sorry,
from the London twenty twelve Olympics.Due to doping, the Russians had
(13:43):
won eight track and field goals anddue to the doping, they're only down
to one now. And it wasa high jumper who was stripped of her
two thousand and eight bronze medal fordoping. So you have said in the
past that you suspec that there wasa possibility that the Russian quarter miler or
(14:03):
quarter hurdler had been doping. Whydid you suspect that? And did you
suspect that at the time of yourrace or did this just come up later
in your mind. Let me justsay that I I don't assume anyone is
on anything when I'm competing against them, number one, because majority of my
(14:26):
life I always won, and Ifigured I didn't need anything to be this
good. So I don't assume peopleare on something if they're good. That's
number one. The only reason whyI suspected something, And I would say
even back then, it was probablylike an ounce of you know, just
(14:46):
suspecting something. It's because this wassomeone that never has beat me over the
years, and I'm like, well, where did this come from? And
and not just me other people,you know, So you went from that
to winning Olympic go which I knowis a possibility, but that's the only
kind of you know, where itcame from. But I still knew that
(15:07):
she was a talented athlete because priorto running the hurdles, she was a
Olympic medalist in the open four hundred. So that's why I said the doubt
wasn't that huge because she was talented. But that's the only thing that arised.
And this was your Like we've saidalready, this was Listinda's second Olympic
Games. In two thousand and nine, you won the world title, you'd
(15:28):
set the American record eleven in twentyeleven, you were many time US champion,
NCAA champions, so you've had someexperience. This wasn't your first round
on the track either. So we'regonna post this in our social media and
on the website. The race forthat that NBC posted, and it was
(15:50):
really one of the closest races ofthe Games, only ero point seven separated
you. I really hope our listenerswill go back and watch the race and
watch your emotions afterwards. I feellike crying now when I watch it.
You were visibly disappointed after that raceand finishing second, even though it was
(16:11):
so close. I mean it waspractically a you know, a horse finish
or whatever they call that. Canyou reflect back on your emotions? Yeah,
you know. That year alone,I had a major injury to my
hamstring where I almost tore the muscleoff the bone, and that's like a
career ending injury. So I wasnot even fully healed competing in the Olympic
(16:36):
Games. But I came back fromthat injury to be able to compete,
So that was in my mind.And then knowing that this potentially could be
the last Olympic Games that I make. I knew that I was twenty nine.
I expected to go on to twentysixteen, which I didn't, but
I knew potentially this could be thelast one. In general, people who
(16:59):
are capable will only make one team. In general, they don't make multiple.
So people that you see are makingmultiple teams, there's really shut out
two thousand and four in twenty twelve, so exactly. So, I think
it was the acknowledgment of this couldbe the last time, and that I
knew I should have been the goldmedalist. I knew that I was the
favorite. I knew that I justknew that I was supposed to win.
(17:22):
I knew that I could win.It wasn't a doubt in my mind.
But I fought through the injuries.I fought through It was just a tumultuous
year for me physically, so allthat stuff, and I still made it
there. I still did well,but I came up short. It's just,
you know, it's hard to It'sa hard pill to swallow. It's
that a lot of people just kindof were like, you're mad at winning
(17:47):
silver, and I'm like, yeah, I don't train that they are going
to This whole process of getting thesmetal that is now yours is that,
But you know how, I justcan imagine that it's been a long time,
and you've also been leading a lifetoo, and so I'm just curious
(18:07):
as to just what really kind ofkept you going. Were the emotions from
that race driving you through this process? Honestly, I had to kind of
forget about that life in order forme to move forward to where I am
now. I went into I think, a deep depression over that, because
(18:27):
you lose like a sense of identity. You are number one in the world
at something, and then you cometo people telling you that you have to
come in an entry level. Sothat's a hard transition. And the only
reason why it was hard is becauseI was holding on to who that person
was, Like, you know,I put in so much time, so
(18:49):
I had to literally put it outof my mind and forget about it.
I didn't even watch track and fieldfor years after that happened. I didn't
want anything to do with the sportbecause I needed to like move on.
It was almost like a death.So I think I kind of moved on
(19:11):
once I started coaching again and founda purpose within that, and that has
helped me to accept things, tomove forward and to be happy about past
things that I wasn't at first.You know, I can laugh about these
(19:33):
things where I was crying for weeks. I can I can talk about it.
I can be honest about it.And that's because I had to let
go of that. And then onceI literally let go of like the disappointment
that I had the failure what Iconsider to be failure. That's when things
started happening. It's the weirdest thing. That's when the articles started coming.
(19:55):
That's when you know, it's theweirdest thing. So that's kind of what
I went through. And now we'rehere. So I'm excited. Like I
said that I have a family toshare this with. Yeah, yeah,
I mean you you had your twins, they were there with you, the
twin digs. We're there with youin twenty twelve. And how special that
(20:17):
your new your newest sons that arefour and five will also be able to
be there with you on August ninth? You know what was what's how are
you going to feel that day?Like? Have you even thought about how
you're gonna feel? I've been thinkingabout how I'm going to feel for you
on that day. But how areyou going to feel on that day when
they put that metal around you?And what do you expect your kids to
(20:41):
do? I mean, are theygoing to be going crazy? Are the
twins going to be I'm going tobe mature? Or you know, what's
this going to be like for thefam? I think what I think about
is like my kid's reaction rather thanminds, because I know that they're going
to be like excited. I knowthat my youngest son are going to ask
a million questions. And then Iknow also that they're not going to care
(21:03):
at all about what's going on.So that's funny to me. So I'm
like excited to see their reaction.As far as myself, I don't know.
That's that's where my mind is,like, Oh my god, I
know they're going to be so excited. I know they're going to be happy.
What are they going to think whenthey see me up there? And
That's what I'm thinking of now.So and your twins were there. They
(21:26):
were the same age as your sonsnow, the youngest sons. They were
there with you and your mom,Yolanda what you know, you called her
mom coach. She was your coachthroughout. There were some people that were
critical of that when you went toyour mom and had her coach you and
said, you know she's not she'snot an Olympic coach. What's going on?
But what you know, how wasthat and how how does your mom
(21:47):
feel about it? Now? Bothyour parents have been so supportive of your
career. The whole time. Yeah, both my mom and dad has been
like essential to just my upbringing andmy career. You're right, but my
mom and dad are both like astatic. I think they're relieved. My mom
and dad both know the impact thatthis had on me, so they're also
(22:10):
relieved that I have moved on atthe same time, but I think they're
just ready to celebrate. And mymom just always says, you deserve it.
You deserve it, you know,and that's kind of been her her
mantra to me. So and yeah, a lot of people did doubt her
and we said MC, that wasfor sure. It was mom coach.
But I called her MC on thetrack. They even talked about it when
(22:33):
they were in the race. OttoBolden said, you know, they've been
critical when she left Curtis Fryar Collegecoach. You know of the mom coach,
But you know, you moved acrossthe country and that's what you wanted
to be at your home base withyour family and all that. I mean,
it made sense. But yeah,well my mom was a great athlete
too, though you know, sheshe ran track as well, She ran
internationally. Some of the some ofthe meats that I competed in she competed
(22:57):
in as well. She didn't goas far as making the Olympic team,
but a lot of coaches when Iwas coming up knew of my mom and
they were kind of shocked the wayand I say it, that's my mom
because they knew about her as well. But so I wasn't. I knew
that she would have me ready.It wasn't a doubt in my mind,
and it was the best thing Iran, the best I ever did in
(23:18):
my career. That's when I brokethe American record, that's when I got
the Olympic gold, That's when Iwon a World championship. So everything that
I did at the height of mycareer was under my mom's coaching. Awesome.
Well, Cinda, you were talkingabout the impact of this, and
you've covered kind of some of themental and the emotional things, but I
think there's a financial aspect to itas well. And Michelle was also,
(23:42):
you know, explaining to me thatthe difference financially between a silver and a
gold medal can sometimes be you know, into the hundreds of thousands to millions,
and that was something that you mayhave missed out on. Potential sponsors,
endorsements, money that you might havereceived, you know, as a
gold medalist, and there probably isn'ta way to recoup that. But how
(24:03):
do you how do you kind ofreconcile that it. It's no way to
reconcile it, right, You Youhave to understand that there's things that happen
in your life that you have completelyno control of. I don't have control
over what someone else puts in theirbody when they're competing against me. So
that's one of the things that Ihad to let go of. And you're
(24:25):
right, the difference is millions inmy case. I know for a fact
it would have been millions at thattime. I was one of the only
mothers. You were there, thefastest mom in the world at that time.
Yeah, so I was one ofthe I guess first to make it
to that level running that well beinga mother. So a lot of sponsors
(24:48):
were interested in me at the time. Procter and Gamble was one of them,
and that was contingent on running welland winning the gold. So I
know for a fact that I missedout on millions, and it's no way
to reconcile that. You just youmove on and you accept that it is
what it is, so you're goingto be a great person to speak.
(25:11):
I mean, there should be alot of sponsors out there are a lot
of businesses or companies that should wantyou to come and speak to their company
about how to get over loss,because you had to get over not only
losing the race, but losing thismoney that would have set your family up
for the rest of their lives.So what message you know, you've talked
(25:33):
some about it already, but whatmessage would you have for those people if
you came and spoke to them.I think and thank you for saying that,
and I will love to speak,so please reach out to me.
I think one of the main thingsare the the main thing that I would
(25:55):
kind of just hone in on isjust the ability to accept acceptance of your
reality, acceptance of your results.And I think that's the main thing and
how you accept those things. Itcould be different, it's different paths for
different people. I had to completelylog out of the sport. Some people
(26:15):
don't have to do that. Butyou have to find your avenue and your
channel on accepting. So I thinkit's an art and accepting things and you
can personalize it to your own life. Well. So now you kind of
enter this chapter where you are goingto have that metal around your neck.
You're going to be awarded that medal. Where are you going to display the
(26:37):
metal? Have you talked about that? If you see where the silver medal
is right now, you will probablytake my little hand in. But I
honestly, my mom is super crafty, right, So I think I'm going
to let her present it at herhome and put it in a nice little
frame box whatever you have, andI'm going to leave it at her house
(27:00):
to display because with the kids here, oh no, that'll be a show
and tell. And I took outI don't know where it is, or
it'll end up in a bag somewheresomebody like accidentally takes out. I walked
in one day and the twins justhad it around the neck. I'm like,
what are you doing? So Isaid, I think I need to
(27:21):
have this at my mom's and Iknow she'll make it look really nice and
display it and I'm going to leaveit there. Well, And so that's
the physical metal that you have.But now that you are, you know,
let's talk about the other part.You are this gold medalist, and
I know you don't attach all youryour self forth to being a gold medalist.
But it's a very prestigious thing andsomething that you earned. So how
(27:42):
are you going to kind of usethat going forward? Maybe goals that you
have or maybe a platform that youhave. I mean, Michelle touched on
it a little bit about just overcomingchallenges, But have you thought about that
much yet? Some I have,I have, I do. I do
want to take this title and maybebe a part of the process of athletes
(28:06):
that go through this same type ofsituation, being a part of the process
of them making it feel more likeare as close as possible to when they
were competing at the Games and gettingthat medal. I think I would like
to be one of the people toour liaison to that in the athletes.
I'm in the pharmaceutical industry right now. I know that they're interested in partnering
(28:30):
with the Olympic Games. I wouldlove to kind of go on board with
those things to share my knowledge thatI've learned within the industry now in pharmaceutical
and being an Olympian. So thoseare the two things that I'm like.
I think I see synergy there.I think that I will be an ascid
(28:52):
and so that's kind of what I'mleaning into right now, but I definitely
want to be a part of theOlympic movement in general, have not been
and this is this is the time. The time is now so well,
it's kind of perfect timing because there'sParis and then there the Olympics comes to
La where you're So if you hadto speak to I know, you coach
(29:12):
high schoolers. Now you're getting readythis week to go to the state championships
or maybe their past I don't Idon't even remember the programs to states.
Yeah, put the states. Soif you could talk to those twenty twenty
four and twenty twenty eight olympians,you know, and talk is cheap,
I get it, But if youcould have a conversation with them, what
(29:34):
are a couple of things, acouple of tips that you'd want to give
them leading up to the games andthen maybe after the games. And we're
speaking of the athletes, Yeah,the athletes. That's tough. I guess
if I had to say something ingeneral, because each athlete is so different,
but I think that you need tofigure out I would tell an athlete
(29:59):
to figure out exactly who how you'reintroducing yourself to the world. I think
it's easy to train. I thinkthat's the easy part. Is easy to
get prepared, is easy to trainbecause you literally have someone telling you what
to do. You have goals,you have targets, and you just focus
on those things. But the thingin order to take full what's the word,
(30:26):
oh my gosh, accountability or fulladvantage advantage, sorry, in order
so I'm going to say again,so in order to take full advantage of
being a part of the Olympic Games, you need to figure out exactly how
you're presenting yourself to the world.Start that process now so that is seamless,
(30:48):
and then the after effect of thatwould come naturally. So you have
to work on your branding. Youhave to work on being able to speak,
being able to be, being ableto be heard, and your presence.
And that's the main thing. Youhave someone worried about your training,
you have someone worried about your physiology, you need to worry about the other
(31:15):
part. That's the most important thinggoing into an Olympic Games. And then
also take a look back at whatyou posted five years ago, ten years
ago, fifteen years ago, becausesomeone else is going to be going back
to look to see Unfortunately, that'sthe world we live in now. So
don't absolutely in future, but goahead and look back to make sure when
(31:37):
you were in college or high schoolyou weren't posting silly stuff on Twitter or
Instagram or wherever on social media,and get that cleaned up too. Yeah,
so that's super important. And Itell the high school kids that now,
I'm like, you never know lookingat you. Please learn from my
mistakes or learn from what I'm tellingyou. You have to be aware of
what you're presenting. I wanted togo back to a question we were talking
(32:02):
about earlier when you found out,like I said, you had thought about
dreaming about maybe getting that metal inthe stadium, but it's going to be
at the foot of the Eiffel Tower. So I was just curious, how
is it determined where that ceremony wouldbe. Did you have any say in
that, or any input or anytype of request. And I was just
(32:22):
curious to get a little more detailon that. So yeah, So when
I brought to them that I wantedto receive in the stadium, because at
first the option was here nationally,like, I'm like, no, it
was an international meet competition. Iwant to receive it on the same type
(32:45):
of stage. So that was thefirst thing they came back and I said,
no, that's not happening. Sothen I said, I want to
be in the stadium. That's whatI want. You guys asked me,
that's what I want, and theywere like, it's literally not possible for
us to do this. It's ruleto this, and they explained why,
and it was a rule book theygave me. They referenced the rule and
(33:07):
they were like, the schedule wasset so far in advance as well.
Exactly. They said that as well, that the schedule is set, so
we cannot do that. And I'mkind of my thought was, that's not
my problem or my issue. Butso they were saying, you know what,
let us talk with some other peopleto see if we can come up
(33:27):
with a solution for you. Sothis was totally excuse me, their idea,
and they came back to me andonce me and the lawyer we got
off the phone and they presented thewhole thing. I'm like, I never
thought that I would be lost forwords, I said, but they really
came up with something this time.I said, I actually feel really good
about this, and he thought itwas so funny, I said, I'm
(33:51):
a lost words. I'm at aloss because I didn't think they would be
able to make up for it,but I think they pretty much did.
So I was happy about it.And I can tell that they put a
lot of thought to it because theyknew from my demeanor. They knew from
my diiction that I was not goingfor anything less than amazing. So well,
(34:12):
I cannot wait to see the visual. I have a visual in my
mind, and maybe you have avisual in your mind, but when it
happens, I'm being very excited tosee it. And you know, you
definitely have to come back on afterwardand tell us in the moment. Oh,
I sblutely going to come back on. I mean absolutely, and I'll
(34:32):
be there with her, and I'mreally excited. The day you called me
up, I was at my parents. It was the day before Easter,
and you had a tone in yourvoice and I thought, I think she's
going to ask me to do something. I don't really know what, but
I can tell by the tone.And I've known her. I've known you
since high school. Now I didn'tknow you high school, but you were
recruit you ran, You're a gamecock Diva. You were on the national
(34:55):
championship team. You talk about apioneer. This girl freshman, right freshman,
she was amazing runner both four hundredmeter four by four and the four
hundred meter hurdles. Basically passed outin my arms right after they won the
night. I remember that I couldn'tmove absolutely just she ran the four by
(35:17):
four. They were interviewing her.I think Bonnie Bernstein was interviewing you on
CBS. I don't know if thatwas live now, don't now it's live
now, and not sure, butI remember you just basically passed out my
arms and I was like, girl, you're on TV, so you better
wake up. But you know,we've we've been through some things. So
when you called and told me,I was really excited. And then at
(35:38):
the end you're like, you're goingto Paris. You know that right?
And I was like, Oh,I'm gonna go to Paris too. I
hung up the phone. I startedjumping up it down. My husband was
like, what is going on withyou? And I told him and he
was very excited. So I'm thrilledfor you. Cannot wait to ask you
girls, do you have do youknow what you're gonna wear because I feel
(35:59):
like the team outfitter, whoever thatis, needs to maybe have a little
custom design for you, Lucian,though not custom, but they are equipping
me with the whole team USA gears. I will have that, okay,
and the official outfitter, I don'twant to say it if it's not true.
(36:22):
Is it Ralph Laarren and Nike?Yeah, so I don't when you
wear that for the ceremony the outfitI would assume. So no, Okay,
I don't know that podium outfits,you know, when I was at
the games they have, you know, I would assume that I will wear
the same thing. Yeah, I'mnot sure that'll That's a question we need
to ask, like will you wearthat outfit? And where the others also
(36:44):
wear their team Oh, I hadn'tthought about that, so I'm more still
thinking of my hair and makeup though. Erica, Well, look, I
know it's not you know, butwe're at the point now where I'm gonna
ask that question. We're going tocover it because, after all, you
are a game Cockediva, and Ihave gotten opportunity to meet many so I
know that not only you know youguys are going to represent from head to
(37:05):
toe. Yes, that's at thetop. I'm like, oh my god,
what about makeup? Their makeup?Haven't thought about that? Today's announcement
is big enough that is going tohappen, and it's not take away from
that. But you know what,Champions Park at the Eiffel Tower. It
is amazing. So it is reallyI remember you and I have had some
(37:30):
conversations Leshinda. You were very excitedbut also a little bit like put off
by that not being in the stadium. But when I saw the venue where
they're going to have this, Iwas like, no, girl, this
is your pioneer, Like this isyeah, yeah, you're good. You're
good. So let's Erica. Doyou have other other things you want to
(37:52):
ask? I'm thinking, like,let's talk about the USA, because the
USA this year is going to beamazing based on the World Championships that were
in Oregon, I think last yearor the year before. Noah Lyle Sidney
McLoughlin is, did you ever thinkanybody would ever run the hurdles as fast
as she's running the quarter hurdles.I can honestly say no. She even
(38:15):
shocked me, and I think that'shard to do. But Sydney is great.
She literally came through. She brokemy high school national record. She's
the one. It was there forsixteen seventeen years. She broke that one
from me. She took the Americanrecord. You know, I always thought
people can run, women can runfifty one seconds in the hurdles, which
(38:35):
they did, and I'm like,I could have did that too. I
expected that, but under sub fiftyone, that's different. She's different.
So I'm excited to see her runthis year. I'm hoping that she goes
to the Open four hundred. She'sdone everything in the four hundred hurdles.
I would love to see her competein a different event because she's still good
at it. I'm excited to seeshe Carrie, of course, I think
(38:57):
we're all excited to see her.I'm hoping that she you know, she
matches that energy with the medal thisyear. Of course, no allows excited
to see him. And I meanthe USA hurdlers, the one hundred hurdlers,
the women. It's so many andthat event is just it's it's big
right now. So I'm excited aboutthat event as well, and of course
the relays. Who can live withoutthe format. We just need to get
(39:21):
the stick around in the form.I'm confident that we will. We have
another game cap diva that's leading therelay teams there. Michelle's right, that's
right. Yes, the divas,the game cut divas are kind of they're
kind of all in it all kindsof things. So, speaking of doing
things, you're a high school coachnow and you've been doing that. You
(39:43):
have you have a regular job,but that's your your also your passion.
What events do you coach? Andlike how much fun is that to be
out of the track with the kids. So I love being a high school
coach. I ran away from coachingfor years. I thought that I didn't
want to. I would tell peoplelike, why would I want to coach?
I don't want to coach. I'mnot a coach. But somehow I
(40:07):
just got back into it and itis the best thing ever. It has
humbled me. It has taught meso much about myself. But I coach
every event, so from the sprintsto the distance, I'm actually coaching everyone,
which that is really fun for me. My team is doing well this
(40:29):
year. My twin sons are onthe same team that I coach. One
of them is ranked number one inthe state right now. The four hundred
meters he's running phenomenal. The othertwin is in the top twenty in the
state. He's running phenomenal. Ihave a top four hundred runner girl high
school girl in the state, topthree four by four team in the state
(40:51):
with the boys side, so we'redoing well. I did not expect for
me to enjoy coaching as much,but I really do enjoy it. I
enjoy like watching them go through theprocess of getting recruited from colleges. I
kind of know where their head is. I know what they can look forward
(41:12):
to, the questions that they needto ask, So I love that.
I'm a sort of a shepherd forthat. So it's fun. I think
I'm going to stay here for awhile. I love developing athletes and that's
what I've been proved to do.This is my second year at Cover City,
and we've done phenomenal things just inthe two years. So it's a
good thing. And I know thecolleges are looking at me, but hold
(41:34):
off colleges. I'm staying in highschool for some years, so but I
think that college coaching will be something. How old are the twins. They're
sixteen, okay, so they'll graduatefrom high school in a couple of years.
Oh next year, they'll turn seventeenin June. Okay, so two
thousand and twenty six they'll graduate,or twenty twenty five, twenty five,
(41:58):
So colleges, she could be availableon the fall of twenty twenty five,
but we don't know that. Help. Nope, nope, nope, gonna
stay with high schools. Okay,let's go a little while. I want
to develop more athletes, and thisis this is the avenue that you can
do that with. So college wouldbe a thing, It's an option,
but not right now. So andwhen you when you're coaching these high schoolers,
(42:20):
you know, college coaches come andrecruit. Do they see you and
they're like, wait minute, whatis that is that little shinda divas?
Yeah? They know, they knowthat I'm there. Yeah they know.
And that's the great thing about it, though, you know, because I
can invite them out to our practices. I have colleges come to the practice
to see us work out. They'recalling my phone like, Hey, what's
(42:40):
up with this athlete? So Ilove that I'm I'm tapped into that,
you know. So I know majorityof all the college coaches, which is
really cool. So it's an openline and open communication. I love it.
Good. Well hopefully, I meanwe won't hold you to anything,
but hopefully we'll have some givencock divasthat you coach too that will say because
I think they have been calling me, oh kid. So we got to
(43:05):
do a shout out to Kevin Brownbecause we all love Kevin Brown and Mike
Sergeant and Coach Frye and the newcoaches. Yes, you know we we
were rooting for them. Still soawesome. So PC for life we've got.
I know Erica has a question thatshe wants to ask you. This
has been great talking to you today. I know your phone is going to
(43:30):
be blowing up today, tomorrow,the next few days. I'm just god.
I got in early because that lasttime when you when I found out
you were going to win the goldI was kind of like, why didn't
you call me back? But thenI didn't realize like it was an international
story and this will be the same. So thank you. Well, yeah,
we definitely appreciate you coming on todayand sharing your story with us because
(43:52):
it's definitely taken some twists and turnsand now to kind of see it all
unfold. We'll definitely be watching andyou know, hopefully your kids, your
students will be your family. It'sjust a very exciting time for you in
the next couple of months, andso definitely stay in touch and we'll be
following along. And you definitely haveto come back on and August when you
(44:15):
get back from your travels and justtell us firsthand how how it all came
together. That's a bit yes,perfect, Thanks for having me, Thank
you so much, and congratulations you'rea gold Congratulations. Really, do you
want to do a game cock cheerthe one that you guys used to do,
(44:36):
or you the one that did that, or somebody else. It's kind
of odd doing it by yourself.Maybe the virtual gamecock hand signal? Okay,
everyone who's a game cop knows whatthat is. Go cos all right,
Thank you so much, Shinda.We appreciate your time absolutely well.
(45:01):
Michelle. When you first told meabout this story, you know, I
had, probably, like many people, maybe remembered a little bit about the
situation. You know, I knowthere's a lot of these incidents in track
and field and other sports with doping, but just to dive into this story
and hear from start to finish howthis happened, all the gamut of emotions,
(45:23):
and now to finally know that Listenis going to get her gold medal,
I mean, it was very excitingto break that with you today.
Yeah, I was really exciting.I'm really it's going to be a big
next few days, next few weeks, next few months for Lushinda because she's
finally going to get her due.I mean, she's been known quote unquote
as the gold medalist since March oftwenty twenty three when they said she was
(45:46):
going to be rewarded or awarded themedal. But it was great for her
to walk us through that today onsuch an important day and explain the process.
So I'm super excited for her.I'm really excited for her boys,
and her husband, her family,and her parents, and and her teammates,
her Gamecock teammates and our US teammatesthat I know will rally around her,
(46:07):
so many of them. Yeah,And it's been a lot of ups
and downs in the process. Andmeanwhile, she's been living her life as
a mom and just as a daughter, and in her professional life, and
she's also a mentor, a coach, and she's going to receive that gold
medal, and in some ways,I mean, I guess you could almost
(46:28):
say it's going to be like asecond life, because a gold medal definitely
has implications for you, not onlymentally emotionally, but financially. And you
know, some of this obviously didn'thappen for her originally, but it was
just very interesting to kind of hearher story and hear the emotion and know
that, you know, she's goingto get that medal, and I'm looking
(46:51):
forward to talking to her after that. I know you're going to Paris too,
I know there. I'm looking forwardto being there, and I'll let
you know in advance what I'm goingto wear orica. But no, I
know, I know that wasn't butyou gotta ask, you gotta ask you.
No, no, no, no, I think it's totally I'm really
excited for her. I'm thrilled that, you know, I will get to
be there. I'm thrilled that I'llbe you know, helping her along.
(47:13):
You know. I I'm just reallyproud of her. I thought she was
really well spoken today and really wasemotional at times, as you would expect,
but just really excited and really realizeshas really embraced the moment as a
pioneer and I'm excited to see that. So I think the listeners, you
know, this is the spin Chicks, and listen to us, follow us,
(47:34):
go back and listen. We've gotsome other Olympians that we've talked to.
We've talked to Alan Johnson, DonEllerbye, Natasha Hastings, Chavn Stoddard
with that was with Jamaica. Sowe've got a number of athletes that we've
interviewed and I'm sure moving forward we'regoing to talk to some others. So
absolutely, so yes, follow us, send us some feedback and you know,
(47:55):
share, share with your friends,and definitely stay tuned because we will
have part two. It's going tobe several months down the road, but
we're looking forward to hearing about Paris. So thank you all for listening and
we'll see you next time.
Welcome to the Simchicks podcast. I'mErica and I'm here today with my co
host Michelle, and we've got aspecial edition what we call a breaking news
podcast for you today, and I'mgonna let Michelle tell a little bit more
about it. You may have heardus record some podcasts with what we call
the Gamecock Divas, but this oneis very close to Michelle's heart. So
(00:31):
Michelle tell us a little bit moreabout our show today. Well, this
is a really exciting one and todaywe're going to talk about today on our
podcast because today the International Olympic Committeehas released that they are going to present
Liscinda Demas US Olympian, along withothers, her gold medal in the first
(00:53):
ever Games reacclamation ceremony, and thisceremony will take place at the of the
Eiffel Tower and Champions Park in Parison August ninth. And we're super excited
to have Lashinda Demas on with ustoday. Listeneda as you know if you've
listened to our podcast before, andif not, that's all right. Lashinda
(01:15):
Demas is a University of South Carolinagraduate and was on their first national championship
team and has become a good friendof mine after I was her sports information
person at South Carolina. So we'rereally excited to have her on today.
This is a really big deal.She's a pioneer in her sport, a
(01:36):
pioneer in all of the Olympics becausethis is the first time ever the IOC
will be doing a reacclamation where theytake a medal that was won by someone
else that was taken away in thiscase due to doping and re reward that
medal, and so we're really excitedto have her on today to talk about
(01:56):
that. And so just for thelisteners, this incident happened at at the
twenty twelve Olympics in London, sowe're dealing with a long process here and
Lishenda will tell us more about that, but basically, she won the silver
and then the gold medalist was strippedof her gold and so now they're going
(02:19):
to award her that gold and sowe'll find out more about that, but
just really excited to share this breakingnews with you all today, So let's
dive in. Yeah, I'm reallyexcited about talking to Lushindas. But when
she finally gets that gold medal,it will have been four thousand three hundred
and fifty seven days in the making. Well, thank you very much for
(02:39):
joining us today, Lisctinda Demas.We know that this is a huge day
for you, both personally and professionally, but your journey is not over,
so thanks for being here today withus. I am so happy to be
here and I guess this is theprime time to be here, right,
so thank you a prime time tocatch up. So the International Olympic Committee
(03:04):
announced today that Leshinda Demas, ourguest, will be awarded the gold medal
on August ninth at Champions Park atthe foot of the Eiffel Tower. It
will have been exactly four thousand,three hundred and fifty seven days since that
four hundred hurdles race at the LondonOlympics in twenty twelve. Like we said,
(03:28):
Leshinda, it's been a long roadto this announcement. What's your initial
reaction to them making this announcement today, Macipo, cool, savabien, but
no, it's a long time coming, and I think that I'm more so
excited because I have four phenomenal sonsthat get to experience that with me.
(03:52):
Because if it wasn't for them,I don't think the excitement will be there,
So this is a great family momentin mess Mess. Well, this
is the very first time that theIOC will hold a metal real allocation ceremony
at an Olympic Games. And Leshinda, You've worked so hard with the IOC
(04:16):
and the us OPC to make thishappen. How does it feel to be
looked at it is a true pioneerin this situation, you know. I
think that's one of the things thatkind of as a kid, I've always
stood out a little bit. Ialways wanted to be a little bit different.
I always wanted to be the firstto do something. It was something
(04:40):
that was naturally in me as akid. I can remember being five years
old thinking I want to be thefastest in the world, and like,
what little kid thinks that? SoI think I knew what I was behind
by initiating the process of this.I do not. I can't remember feeling
that it would be great of aresponse and them responding as well. But
(05:03):
I knew that it was a bigdeal and I knew that some recognition would
come behind it too. So I'mexcited and you really are the pioneer of
this. I mean, I spoketo someone recently and they compared you to
Billy Jean King. They said,you know, this has never been done
at the Olympic Games before the givinga medal to someone after the fact.
(05:26):
This is a very first time andyou're really the one that spearheaded this.
And we're going to talk some moreabout that. But how does it feel
to be compared with like somebody likethat that's a pioneer in their sport?
Love Billy Jean King met her.I was a part of the Women's Sports
Foundation, the banquets and the organizationlove Her. It's an honor. It's
(05:50):
an honor to be compared to Billyjan King. And I think, especially
as a woman, you always lookfor something that is judged off of your
like accolades and nothing else physical,you know what I mean. So even
outside of the sport and doing aphysical action, I'm glad to do something
(06:10):
that you can just place aside andbe a part of. So I knew,
I knew that this would be big. I'm grateful and happy that I'm
able to help with other athletes becausenow that's what I have in me,
my willingness to give back, mywillingness to push athletes forward, and that's
(06:32):
why I'm coaching as well in highschool. I love the fact that I
get to like foreign to them.So it's a lot of things that factor
into my decision with like moving forwardwith this, because at one point I
didn't really care, but this ispart of the reason to help others and
be that staple. Great. Solet's go back a couple of years because
this student just come about today.A couple of years ago, the Russian
(06:57):
four hundred four hundred meter from RussiaNatalia Antuk was stripped of the gold medal
from the twenty twelve Games due todoping. This was in October of twenty
twenty two. In March of twentytwenty three, the IOC came out and
announced, after a lot of conversationsthat you would be awarded the gold medal.
(07:20):
I want to know where were youwhen you heard this in October and
who told you? I'm sorry inMarch in October and March, but who
told you that you would be gettingthe gold medal? How did you find
out? Take us through? Didyou know it was coming or did it
just happen? I absolutely did notknow it was coming. I think I
(07:41):
was at track practice at another highschool that I coached at, and I
received like a text message from afriend that seen the news article, so
I wasn't even aware of anything.I had to google myself in order to
understand what they were talking about.I'm like, what's going on? And
so then I read it, andyou know, it's one of those things
(08:03):
where you're not happy that someone getsbusted for anything, but because the fact
remains that the race happened years ago, and in that moment, you lost
the race. So it's kind ofI can't explain you don't feel vindicated in
(08:24):
that way, But I guess itwas more so of how can I explain
it a neutral moment for me.I wasn't happy, I wasn't sad,
but I am fair and I feellike, okay, this is fair,
and I think that's what I waswith. Did your phone blow up that
day? I mean, I knowI and called you a bunch of did
(08:46):
was she calling me back? ButI didn't even think, Oh, everybody
else in the world is finding thisout too. It did, and including
my family, and I couldn't getthem give them any answers. And that's
another reason why I kind of waslike, Okay, this is ridiculous.
We have to do something about this. Like I can't even give people answers
that they're asking me because I hadno clue. So that's another reason why
(09:07):
I pushed for like this whole processin going to the Olympic Games to receive
the medal. Well, when Michelleand I were when Michelle was telling me
a little bit about the background,because I was a little bit familiar but
not much in detail, and shewas sharing with me a lot of more
of the details, and she hadmentioned that, you you know, had
dreams of the IOC presenting the medalto you, you know, in the
(09:31):
Olympic stadium, like recreating this momentthat you didn't have in London at the
upcoming twenty twenty four Games. Butyou have worked, you know, tirelessly
with the IOC for this metal ceremonythat would recognize not only you, but
the other two medalists, Susanna Haynovaof the Czech Republic and Kalis Spencer of
Jamaica. So can you tell usa little bit about the process during the
(09:54):
last two years, like the thingsyou had to go through to help make
this ceremony that's happening, How yougot to this point where you're going to
receive that medal and where it's goingto be. Yeah. So the USATF
via the IOC was reached out tome asking to mail the medal and I'm
like, wait, wait, mailthe mail the medal, Like I'm confused.
(10:16):
We skipped a lot of steps,conversations all of that, and this
is literally they had me like thisand I'm like, I don't know what
you mean, like, no,you just send it. We're going to
send you to go medal. I'mlike wait, wait, wait, and
then that's it and he was like, uh, I don't know, let
me get back to you. Soit was it was a bunch of those
type of conversations at first, andI'm like, why would I send the
(10:39):
medal? I'm like that means thatI'm going to be swept under the rug,
put to the back burner if Ijust give the medal without having any
answers. And so I reached outto like a colleague of mine. I'm
like, hey, I need arecommendation for a lawyer. I need an
international lawyer immediately. So this persongave me a recommendation. I reached out
(11:00):
to the lawyer, which was RubenJavier Rubinstein. He has worked on UH
different track cases and so he wasfamiliar with the sport, UH, familiar
with the process with the IOC andeverything, and so once we spoke about
it, he was like, oh, I would love to work with you.
So that was that was that.It wasn't a lot of like battles
(11:26):
per se, but it was justa lot of conversations, a lot of
back and forth, a lot ofquestions, and I think that the IOC
knew that it was serious. OnceI brought in Javier, they understood like,
Okay, she's serious. And webrought in the other two hurdlers,
the quarter hurdlers from the race also, and that was Javier's recommendation. Maybe
(11:50):
I should say, mister Rubinstein,that's his recommendation. He's like, do
you have access to the other medalists. I'm like, yeah, I can
go on Instagram and Ben and thenwe follow each other sometimes we comment on
each other pages. So I nowreached out to both of them and they
both were like, let's go.So we had calls together all three medalists
(12:11):
with the lawyer him explaining the process, explaining what he's going to do,
and that's what it was so ashe had conversations, he would keep us
all in the loop when there wasthings that needed to be discussed as far
as all of us is getting themetal. If we agree to how we
want to get the medal and soforth, we will have those conversations together.
And we basically agreed on everything.And then the process started to take
(12:35):
a very long time, and Calicekind of was like, I'm backing out
of this. This is too much. My governing body is pressuring me to
send my medal back, They're pressuringme to pick a ceremony, and I'm
just tired of dealing with this.And she's like, I'm ready to back
out. And it was like atthat moment, maybe a couple of months
(12:56):
after that that we received like,hey, this is what we're gonna do.
So she almost didn't want to finishthe whole process because it was that
long, but here we are.So it happened. So a lot of
conversations, a lot of questions thatI wanted to get answered, and honestly,
they weren't prepared to answer some ofthe questions and they had to go
(13:18):
back and figure out how they cananswer the questions properly. So I think
that's what took so long. Itwas so many people that we had to
speak to to get everything in order, but we made it. Yeah,
And you know from this particular Olympics, from the London twenty twenty I'm sorry,
from the London twenty twelve Olympics.Due to doping, the Russians had
(13:43):
won eight track and field goals anddue to the doping, they're only down
to one now. And it wasa high jumper who was stripped of her
two thousand and eight bronze medal fordoping. So you have said in the
past that you suspec that there wasa possibility that the Russian quarter miler or
(14:03):
quarter hurdler had been doping. Whydid you suspect that? And did you
suspect that at the time of yourrace or did this just come up later
in your mind. Let me justsay that I I don't assume anyone is
on anything when I'm competing against them, number one, because majority of my
(14:26):
life I always won, and Ifigured I didn't need anything to be this
good. So I don't assume peopleare on something if they're good. That's
number one. The only reason whyI suspected something, And I would say
even back then, it was probablylike an ounce of you know, just
(14:46):
suspecting something. It's because this wassomeone that never has beat me over the
years, and I'm like, well, where did this come from? And
and not just me other people,you know, So you went from that
to winning Olympic go which I knowis a possibility, but that's the only
kind of you know, where itcame from. But I still knew that
(15:07):
she was a talented athlete because priorto running the hurdles, she was a
Olympic medalist in the open four hundred. So that's why I said the doubt
wasn't that huge because she was talented. But that's the only thing that arised.
And this was your Like we've saidalready, this was Listinda's second Olympic
Games. In two thousand and nine, you won the world title, you'd
(15:28):
set the American record eleven in twentyeleven, you were many time US champion,
NCAA champions, so you've had someexperience. This wasn't your first round
on the track either. So we'regonna post this in our social media and
on the website. The race forthat that NBC posted, and it was
(15:50):
really one of the closest races ofthe Games, only ero point seven separated
you. I really hope our listenerswill go back and watch the race and
watch your emotions afterwards. I feellike crying now when I watch it.
You were visibly disappointed after that raceand finishing second, even though it was
(16:11):
so close. I mean it waspractically a you know, a horse finish
or whatever they call that. Canyou reflect back on your emotions? Yeah,
you know. That year alone,I had a major injury to my
hamstring where I almost tore the muscleoff the bone, and that's like a
career ending injury. So I wasnot even fully healed competing in the Olympic
(16:36):
Games. But I came back fromthat injury to be able to compete,
So that was in my mind.And then knowing that this potentially could be
the last Olympic Games that I make. I knew that I was twenty nine.
I expected to go on to twentysixteen, which I didn't, but
I knew potentially this could be thelast one. In general, people who
(16:59):
are capable will only make one team. In general, they don't make multiple.
So people that you see are makingmultiple teams, there's really shut out
two thousand and four in twenty twelve, so exactly. So, I think
it was the acknowledgment of this couldbe the last time, and that I
knew I should have been the goldmedalist. I knew that I was the
favorite. I knew that I justknew that I was supposed to win.
(17:22):
I knew that I could win.It wasn't a doubt in my mind.
But I fought through the injuries.I fought through It was just a tumultuous
year for me physically, so allthat stuff, and I still made it
there. I still did well,but I came up short. It's just,
you know, it's hard to It'sa hard pill to swallow. It's
that a lot of people just kindof were like, you're mad at winning
(17:47):
silver, and I'm like, yeah, I don't train that they are going
to This whole process of getting thesmetal that is now yours is that,
But you know how, I justcan imagine that it's been a long time,
and you've also been leading a lifetoo, and so I'm just curious
(18:07):
as to just what really kind ofkept you going. Were the emotions from
that race driving you through this process? Honestly, I had to kind of
forget about that life in order forme to move forward to where I am
now. I went into I think, a deep depression over that, because
(18:27):
you lose like a sense of identity. You are number one in the world
at something, and then you cometo people telling you that you have to
come in an entry level. Sothat's a hard transition. And the only
reason why it was hard is becauseI was holding on to who that person
was, Like, you know,I put in so much time, so
(18:49):
I had to literally put it outof my mind and forget about it.
I didn't even watch track and fieldfor years after that happened. I didn't
want anything to do with the sportbecause I needed to like move on.
It was almost like a death.So I think I kind of moved on
(19:11):
once I started coaching again and founda purpose within that, and that has
helped me to accept things, tomove forward and to be happy about past
things that I wasn't at first.You know, I can laugh about these
(19:33):
things where I was crying for weeks. I can I can talk about it.
I can be honest about it.And that's because I had to let
go of that. And then onceI literally let go of like the disappointment
that I had the failure what Iconsider to be failure. That's when things
started happening. It's the weirdest thing. That's when the articles started coming.
(19:55):
That's when you know, it's theweirdest thing. So that's kind of what
I went through. And now we'rehere. So I'm excited. Like I
said that I have a family toshare this with. Yeah, yeah,
I mean you you had your twins, they were there with you, the
twin digs. We're there with youin twenty twelve. And how special that
(20:17):
your new your newest sons that arefour and five will also be able to
be there with you on August ninth? You know what was what's how are
you going to feel that day?Like? Have you even thought about how
you're gonna feel? I've been thinkingabout how I'm going to feel for you
on that day. But how areyou going to feel on that day when
they put that metal around you?And what do you expect your kids to
(20:41):
do? I mean, are theygoing to be going crazy? Are the
twins going to be I'm going tobe mature? Or you know, what's
this going to be like for thefam? I think what I think about
is like my kid's reaction rather thanminds, because I know that they're going
to be like excited. I knowthat my youngest son are going to ask
a million questions. And then Iknow also that they're not going to care
(21:03):
at all about what's going on.So that's funny to me. So I'm
like excited to see their reaction.As far as myself, I don't know.
That's that's where my mind is,like, Oh my god, I
know they're going to be so excited. I know they're going to be happy.
What are they going to think whenthey see me up there? And
That's what I'm thinking of now.So and your twins were there. They
(21:26):
were the same age as your sonsnow, the youngest sons. They were
there with you and your mom,Yolanda what you know, you called her
mom coach. She was your coachthroughout. There were some people that were
critical of that when you went toyour mom and had her coach you and
said, you know she's not she'snot an Olympic coach. What's going on?
But what you know, how wasthat and how how does your mom
(21:47):
feel about it? Now? Bothyour parents have been so supportive of your
career. The whole time. Yeah, both my mom and dad has been
like essential to just my upbringing andmy career. You're right, but my
mom and dad are both like astatic. I think they're relieved. My mom
and dad both know the impact thatthis had on me, so they're also
(22:10):
relieved that I have moved on atthe same time, but I think they're
just ready to celebrate. And mymom just always says, you deserve it.
You deserve it, you know,and that's kind of been her her
mantra to me. So and yeah, a lot of people did doubt her
and we said MC, that wasfor sure. It was mom coach.
But I called her MC on thetrack. They even talked about it when
(22:33):
they were in the race. OttoBolden said, you know, they've been
critical when she left Curtis Fryar Collegecoach. You know of the mom coach,
But you know, you moved acrossthe country and that's what you wanted
to be at your home base withyour family and all that. I mean,
it made sense. But yeah,well my mom was a great athlete
too, though you know, sheshe ran track as well, She ran
internationally. Some of the some ofthe meats that I competed in she competed
(22:57):
in as well. She didn't goas far as making the Olympic team,
but a lot of coaches when Iwas coming up knew of my mom and
they were kind of shocked the wayand I say it, that's my mom
because they knew about her as well. But so I wasn't. I knew
that she would have me ready.It wasn't a doubt in my mind,
and it was the best thing Iran, the best I ever did in
(23:18):
my career. That's when I brokethe American record, that's when I got
the Olympic gold, That's when Iwon a World championship. So everything that
I did at the height of mycareer was under my mom's coaching. Awesome.
Well, Cinda, you were talkingabout the impact of this, and
you've covered kind of some of themental and the emotional things, but I
think there's a financial aspect to itas well. And Michelle was also,
(23:42):
you know, explaining to me thatthe difference financially between a silver and a
gold medal can sometimes be you know, into the hundreds of thousands to millions,
and that was something that you mayhave missed out on. Potential sponsors,
endorsements, money that you might havereceived, you know, as a
gold medalist, and there probably isn'ta way to recoup that. But how
(24:03):
do you how do you kind ofreconcile that it. It's no way to
reconcile it, right, You Youhave to understand that there's things that happen
in your life that you have completelyno control of. I don't have control
over what someone else puts in theirbody when they're competing against me. So
that's one of the things that Ihad to let go of. And you're
(24:25):
right, the difference is millions inmy case. I know for a fact
it would have been millions at thattime. I was one of the only
mothers. You were there, thefastest mom in the world at that time.
Yeah, so I was one ofthe I guess first to make it
to that level running that well beinga mother. So a lot of sponsors
(24:48):
were interested in me at the time. Procter and Gamble was one of them,
and that was contingent on running welland winning the gold. So I
know for a fact that I missedout on millions, and it's no way
to reconcile that. You just youmove on and you accept that it is
what it is, so you're goingto be a great person to speak.
(25:11):
I mean, there should be alot of sponsors out there are a lot
of businesses or companies that should wantyou to come and speak to their company
about how to get over loss,because you had to get over not only
losing the race, but losing thismoney that would have set your family up
for the rest of their lives.So what message you know, you've talked
(25:33):
some about it already, but whatmessage would you have for those people if
you came and spoke to them.I think and thank you for saying that,
and I will love to speak,so please reach out to me.
I think one of the main thingsare the the main thing that I would
(25:55):
kind of just hone in on isjust the ability to accept acceptance of your
reality, acceptance of your results.And I think that's the main thing and
how you accept those things. Itcould be different, it's different paths for
different people. I had to completelylog out of the sport. Some people
(26:15):
don't have to do that. Butyou have to find your avenue and your
channel on accepting. So I thinkit's an art and accepting things and you
can personalize it to your own life. Well. So now you kind of
enter this chapter where you are goingto have that metal around your neck.
You're going to be awarded that medal. Where are you going to display the
(26:37):
metal? Have you talked about that? If you see where the silver medal
is right now, you will probablytake my little hand in. But I
honestly, my mom is super crafty, right, So I think I'm going
to let her present it at herhome and put it in a nice little
frame box whatever you have, andI'm going to leave it at her house
(27:00):
to display because with the kids here, oh no, that'll be a show
and tell. And I took outI don't know where it is, or
it'll end up in a bag somewheresomebody like accidentally takes out. I walked
in one day and the twins justhad it around the neck. I'm like,
what are you doing? So Isaid, I think I need to
(27:21):
have this at my mom's and Iknow she'll make it look really nice and
display it and I'm going to leaveit there. Well, And so that's
the physical metal that you have.But now that you are, you know,
let's talk about the other part.You are this gold medalist, and
I know you don't attach all youryour self forth to being a gold medalist.
But it's a very prestigious thing andsomething that you earned. So how
(27:42):
are you going to kind of usethat going forward? Maybe goals that you
have or maybe a platform that youhave. I mean, Michelle touched on
it a little bit about just overcomingchallenges, But have you thought about that
much yet? Some I have,I have, I do. I do
want to take this title and maybebe a part of the process of athletes
(28:06):
that go through this same type ofsituation, being a part of the process
of them making it feel more likeare as close as possible to when they
were competing at the Games and gettingthat medal. I think I would like
to be one of the people toour liaison to that in the athletes.
I'm in the pharmaceutical industry right now. I know that they're interested in partnering
(28:30):
with the Olympic Games. I wouldlove to kind of go on board with
those things to share my knowledge thatI've learned within the industry now in pharmaceutical
and being an Olympian. So thoseare the two things that I'm like.
I think I see synergy there.I think that I will be an ascid
(28:52):
and so that's kind of what I'mleaning into right now, but I definitely
want to be a part of theOlympic movement in general, have not been
and this is this is the time. The time is now so well,
it's kind of perfect timing because there'sParis and then there the Olympics comes to
La where you're So if you hadto speak to I know, you coach
(29:12):
high schoolers. Now you're getting readythis week to go to the state championships
or maybe their past I don't Idon't even remember the programs to states.
Yeah, put the states. Soif you could talk to those twenty twenty
four and twenty twenty eight olympians,you know, and talk is cheap,
I get it, But if youcould have a conversation with them, what
(29:34):
are a couple of things, acouple of tips that you'd want to give
them leading up to the games andthen maybe after the games. And we're
speaking of the athletes, Yeah,the athletes. That's tough. I guess
if I had to say something ingeneral, because each athlete is so different,
but I think that you need tofigure out I would tell an athlete
(29:59):
to figure out exactly who how you'reintroducing yourself to the world. I think
it's easy to train. I thinkthat's the easy part. Is easy to
get prepared, is easy to trainbecause you literally have someone telling you what
to do. You have goals,you have targets, and you just focus
on those things. But the thingin order to take full what's the word,
(30:26):
oh my gosh, accountability or fulladvantage advantage, sorry, in order
so I'm going to say again,so in order to take full advantage of
being a part of the Olympic Games, you need to figure out exactly how
you're presenting yourself to the world.Start that process now so that is seamless,
(30:48):
and then the after effect of thatwould come naturally. So you have
to work on your branding. Youhave to work on being able to speak,
being able to be, being ableto be heard, and your presence.
And that's the main thing. Youhave someone worried about your training,
you have someone worried about your physiology, you need to worry about the other
(31:15):
part. That's the most important thinggoing into an Olympic Games. And then
also take a look back at whatyou posted five years ago, ten years
ago, fifteen years ago, becausesomeone else is going to be going back
to look to see Unfortunately, that'sthe world we live in now. So
don't absolutely in future, but goahead and look back to make sure when
(31:37):
you were in college or high schoolyou weren't posting silly stuff on Twitter or
Instagram or wherever on social media,and get that cleaned up too. Yeah,
so that's super important. And Itell the high school kids that now,
I'm like, you never know lookingat you. Please learn from my
mistakes or learn from what I'm tellingyou. You have to be aware of
what you're presenting. I wanted togo back to a question we were talking
(32:02):
about earlier when you found out,like I said, you had thought about
dreaming about maybe getting that metal inthe stadium, but it's going to be
at the foot of the Eiffel Tower. So I was just curious, how
is it determined where that ceremony wouldbe. Did you have any say in
that, or any input or anytype of request. And I was just
(32:22):
curious to get a little more detailon that. So yeah, So when
I brought to them that I wantedto receive in the stadium, because at
first the option was here nationally,like, I'm like, no, it
was an international meet competition. Iwant to receive it on the same type
(32:45):
of stage. So that was thefirst thing they came back and I said,
no, that's not happening. Sothen I said, I want to
be in the stadium. That's whatI want. You guys asked me,
that's what I want, and theywere like, it's literally not possible for
us to do this. It's ruleto this, and they explained why,
and it was a rule book theygave me. They referenced the rule and
(33:07):
they were like, the schedule wasset so far in advance as well.
Exactly. They said that as well, that the schedule is set, so
we cannot do that. And I'mkind of my thought was, that's not
my problem or my issue. Butso they were saying, you know what,
let us talk with some other peopleto see if we can come up
(33:27):
with a solution for you. Sothis was totally excuse me, their idea,
and they came back to me andonce me and the lawyer we got
off the phone and they presented thewhole thing. I'm like, I never
thought that I would be lost forwords, I said, but they really
came up with something this time.I said, I actually feel really good
about this, and he thought itwas so funny, I said, I'm
(33:51):
a lost words. I'm at aloss because I didn't think they would be
able to make up for it,but I think they pretty much did.
So I was happy about it.And I can tell that they put a
lot of thought to it because theyknew from my demeanor. They knew from
my diiction that I was not goingfor anything less than amazing. So well,
(34:12):
I cannot wait to see the visual. I have a visual in my
mind, and maybe you have avisual in your mind, but when it
happens, I'm being very excited tosee it. And you know, you
definitely have to come back on afterwardand tell us in the moment. Oh,
I sblutely going to come back on. I mean absolutely, and I'll
(34:32):
be there with her, and I'mreally excited. The day you called me
up, I was at my parents. It was the day before Easter,
and you had a tone in yourvoice and I thought, I think she's
going to ask me to do something. I don't really know what, but
I can tell by the tone.And I've known her. I've known you
since high school. Now I didn'tknow you high school, but you were
recruit you ran, You're a gamecock Diva. You were on the national
(34:55):
championship team. You talk about apioneer. This girl freshman, right freshman,
she was amazing runner both four hundredmeter four by four and the four
hundred meter hurdles. Basically passed outin my arms right after they won the
night. I remember that I couldn'tmove absolutely just she ran the four by
(35:17):
four. They were interviewing her.I think Bonnie Bernstein was interviewing you on
CBS. I don't know if thatwas live now, don't now it's live
now, and not sure, butI remember you just basically passed out my
arms and I was like, girl, you're on TV, so you better
wake up. But you know,we've we've been through some things. So
when you called and told me,I was really excited. And then at
(35:38):
the end you're like, you're goingto Paris. You know that right?
And I was like, Oh,I'm gonna go to Paris too. I
hung up the phone. I startedjumping up it down. My husband was
like, what is going on withyou? And I told him and he
was very excited. So I'm thrilledfor you. Cannot wait to ask you
girls, do you have do youknow what you're gonna wear because I feel
(35:59):
like the team outfitter, whoever thatis, needs to maybe have a little
custom design for you, Lucian,though not custom, but they are equipping
me with the whole team USA gears. I will have that, okay,
and the official outfitter, I don'twant to say it if it's not true.
(36:22):
Is it Ralph Laarren and Nike?Yeah, so I don't when you
wear that for the ceremony the outfitI would assume. So no, Okay,
I don't know that podium outfits,you know, when I was at
the games they have, you know, I would assume that I will wear
the same thing. Yeah, I'mnot sure that'll That's a question we need
to ask, like will you wearthat outfit? And where the others also
(36:44):
wear their team Oh, I hadn'tthought about that, so I'm more still
thinking of my hair and makeup though. Erica, Well, look, I
know it's not you know, butwe're at the point now where I'm gonna
ask that question. We're going tocover it because, after all, you
are a game Cockediva, and Ihave gotten opportunity to meet many so I
know that not only you know youguys are going to represent from head to
(37:05):
toe. Yes, that's at thetop. I'm like, oh my god,
what about makeup? Their makeup?Haven't thought about that? Today's announcement
is big enough that is going tohappen, and it's not take away from
that. But you know what,Champions Park at the Eiffel Tower. It
is amazing. So it is reallyI remember you and I have had some
(37:30):
conversations Leshinda. You were very excitedbut also a little bit like put off
by that not being in the stadium. But when I saw the venue where
they're going to have this, Iwas like, no, girl, this
is your pioneer, Like this isyeah, yeah, you're good. You're
good. So let's Erica. Doyou have other other things you want to
(37:52):
ask? I'm thinking, like,let's talk about the USA, because the
USA this year is going to beamazing based on the World Championships that were
in Oregon, I think last yearor the year before. Noah Lyle Sidney
McLoughlin is, did you ever thinkanybody would ever run the hurdles as fast
as she's running the quarter hurdles.I can honestly say no. She even
(38:15):
shocked me, and I think that'shard to do. But Sydney is great.
She literally came through. She brokemy high school national record. She's
the one. It was there forsixteen seventeen years. She broke that one
from me. She took the Americanrecord. You know, I always thought
people can run, women can runfifty one seconds in the hurdles, which
(38:35):
they did, and I'm like,I could have did that too. I
expected that, but under sub fiftyone, that's different. She's different.
So I'm excited to see her runthis year. I'm hoping that she goes
to the Open four hundred. She'sdone everything in the four hundred hurdles.
I would love to see her competein a different event because she's still good
at it. I'm excited to seeshe Carrie, of course, I think
(38:57):
we're all excited to see her.I'm hoping that she you know, she
matches that energy with the medal thisyear. Of course, no allows excited
to see him. And I meanthe USA hurdlers, the one hundred hurdlers,
the women. It's so many andthat event is just it's it's big
right now. So I'm excited aboutthat event as well, and of course
the relays. Who can live withoutthe format. We just need to get
(39:21):
the stick around in the form.I'm confident that we will. We have
another game cap diva that's leading therelay teams there. Michelle's right, that's
right. Yes, the divas,the game cut divas are kind of they're
kind of all in it all kindsof things. So, speaking of doing
things, you're a high school coachnow and you've been doing that. You
(39:43):
have you have a regular job,but that's your your also your passion.
What events do you coach? Andlike how much fun is that to be
out of the track with the kids. So I love being a high school
coach. I ran away from coachingfor years. I thought that I didn't
want to. I would tell peoplelike, why would I want to coach?
I don't want to coach. I'mnot a coach. But somehow I
(40:07):
just got back into it and itis the best thing ever. It has
humbled me. It has taught meso much about myself. But I coach
every event, so from the sprintsto the distance, I'm actually coaching everyone,
which that is really fun for me. My team is doing well this
(40:29):
year. My twin sons are onthe same team that I coach. One
of them is ranked number one inthe state right now. The four hundred
meters he's running phenomenal. The othertwin is in the top twenty in the
state. He's running phenomenal. Ihave a top four hundred runner girl high
school girl in the state, topthree four by four team in the state
(40:51):
with the boys side, so we'redoing well. I did not expect for
me to enjoy coaching as much,but I really do enjoy it. I
enjoy like watching them go through theprocess of getting recruited from colleges. I
kind of know where their head is. I know what they can look forward
(41:12):
to, the questions that they needto ask, So I love that.
I'm a sort of a shepherd forthat. So it's fun. I think
I'm going to stay here for awhile. I love developing athletes and that's
what I've been proved to do.This is my second year at Cover City,
and we've done phenomenal things just inthe two years. So it's a
good thing. And I know thecolleges are looking at me, but hold
(41:34):
off colleges. I'm staying in highschool for some years, so but I
think that college coaching will be something. How old are the twins. They're
sixteen, okay, so they'll graduatefrom high school in a couple of years.
Oh next year, they'll turn seventeenin June. Okay, so two
thousand and twenty six they'll graduate,or twenty twenty five, twenty five,
(41:58):
So colleges, she could be availableon the fall of twenty twenty five,
but we don't know that. Help. Nope, nope, nope, gonna
stay with high schools. Okay,let's go a little while. I want
to develop more athletes, and thisis this is the avenue that you can
do that with. So college wouldbe a thing, It's an option,
but not right now. So andwhen you when you're coaching these high schoolers,
(42:20):
you know, college coaches come andrecruit. Do they see you and
they're like, wait minute, whatis that is that little shinda divas?
Yeah? They know, they knowthat I'm there. Yeah they know.
And that's the great thing about it, though, you know, because I
can invite them out to our practices. I have colleges come to the practice
to see us work out. They'recalling my phone like, Hey, what's
(42:40):
up with this athlete? So Ilove that I'm I'm tapped into that,
you know. So I know majorityof all the college coaches, which is
really cool. So it's an openline and open communication. I love it.
Good. Well hopefully, I meanwe won't hold you to anything,
but hopefully we'll have some givencock divasthat you coach too that will say because
I think they have been calling me, oh kid. So we got to
(43:05):
do a shout out to Kevin Brownbecause we all love Kevin Brown and Mike
Sergeant and Coach Frye and the newcoaches. Yes, you know we we
were rooting for them. Still soawesome. So PC for life we've got.
I know Erica has a question thatshe wants to ask you. This
has been great talking to you today. I know your phone is going to
(43:30):
be blowing up today, tomorrow,the next few days. I'm just god.
I got in early because that lasttime when you when I found out
you were going to win the goldI was kind of like, why didn't
you call me back? But thenI didn't realize like it was an international
story and this will be the same. So thank you. Well, yeah,
we definitely appreciate you coming on todayand sharing your story with us because
(43:52):
it's definitely taken some twists and turnsand now to kind of see it all
unfold. We'll definitely be watching andyou know, hopefully your kids, your
students will be your family. It'sjust a very exciting time for you in
the next couple of months, andso definitely stay in touch and we'll be
following along. And you definitely haveto come back on and August when you
(44:15):
get back from your travels and justtell us firsthand how how it all came
together. That's a bit yes,perfect, Thanks for having me, Thank
you so much, and congratulations you'rea gold Congratulations. Really, do you
want to do a game cock cheerthe one that you guys used to do,
(44:36):
or you the one that did that, or somebody else. It's kind
of odd doing it by yourself.Maybe the virtual gamecock hand signal? Okay,
everyone who's a game cop knows whatthat is. Go cos all right,
Thank you so much, Shinda.We appreciate your time absolutely well.
(45:01):
Michelle. When you first told meabout this story, you know, I
had, probably, like many people, maybe remembered a little bit about the
situation. You know, I knowthere's a lot of these incidents in track
and field and other sports with doping, but just to dive into this story
and hear from start to finish howthis happened, all the gamut of emotions,
(45:23):
and now to finally know that Listenis going to get her gold medal,
I mean, it was very excitingto break that with you today.
Yeah, I was really exciting.I'm really it's going to be a big
next few days, next few weeks, next few months for Lushinda because she's
finally going to get her due.I mean, she's been known quote unquote
as the gold medalist since March oftwenty twenty three when they said she was
(45:46):
going to be rewarded or awarded themedal. But it was great for her
to walk us through that today onsuch an important day and explain the process.
So I'm super excited for her.I'm really excited for her boys,
and her husband, her family,and her parents, and and her teammates,
her Gamecock teammates and our US teammatesthat I know will rally around her,
(46:07):
so many of them. Yeah,And it's been a lot of ups
and downs in the process. Andmeanwhile, she's been living her life as
a mom and just as a daughter, and in her professional life, and
she's also a mentor, a coach, and she's going to receive that gold
medal, and in some ways,I mean, I guess you could almost
(46:28):
say it's going to be like asecond life, because a gold medal definitely
has implications for you, not onlymentally emotionally, but financially. And you
know, some of this obviously didn'thappen for her originally, but it was
just very interesting to kind of hearher story and hear the emotion and know
that, you know, she's goingto get that medal, and I'm looking
(46:51):
forward to talking to her after that. I know you're going to Paris too,
I know there. I'm looking forwardto being there, and I'll let
you know in advance what I'm goingto wear orica. But no, I
know, I know that wasn't butyou gotta ask, you gotta ask you.
No, no, no, no, I think it's totally I'm really
excited for her. I'm thrilled that, you know, I will get to
be there. I'm thrilled that I'llbe you know, helping her along.
(47:13):
You know. I I'm just reallyproud of her. I thought she was
really well spoken today and really wasemotional at times, as you would expect,
but just really excited and really realizeshas really embraced the moment as a
pioneer and I'm excited to see that. So I think the listeners, you
know, this is the spin Chicks, and listen to us, follow us,
(47:34):
go back and listen. We've gotsome other Olympians that we've talked to.
We've talked to Alan Johnson, DonEllerbye, Natasha Hastings, Chavn Stoddard
with that was with Jamaica. Sowe've got a number of athletes that we've
interviewed and I'm sure moving forward we'regoing to talk to some others. So
absolutely, so yes, follow us, send us some feedback and you know,
(47:55):
share, share with your friends,and definitely stay tuned because we will
have part two. It's going tobe several months down the road, but
we're looking forward to hearing about Paris. So thank you all for listening and
we'll see you next time.
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