July 18, 2025 • 37 mins
We dive deep into a comprehensive discussion about the new Marvel series 'Ironheart'. We explore our thoughts and critiques on the show's structure, character development, and storytelling.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome back to this podcast, are freaking geeks. I'm your
host Demitris.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm your host Mark and Moe.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And we are here to talk about a great show. Well,
it's got some problems with it, but it's I liked
it overall.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
It's a good show. Yeah, good show.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah, not perfect, but good iron Heart with founding Thorn
as iron Heart or agree, which is good.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
How do you feel about her, because I know you
had you and Black Panther to have have a little
bit of beef. How do you feel about her her
coming from that to this show? How do you feel
about that transition?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I feel I'll say this, I feel like this show
felt like it was supposed to come before Black Panther.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Okay, we'll kind of family, and.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I think if it did, it would have made her
character and way stronger.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
And wakinda forever.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, you get my drift whatever. I've watched it again.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
It's not as bad, but it's okay, all the feels
and all that. Besides, it wasn't the worst movie. I've
come to grips with that movie now look back. Even
looking back on that like the way they introduce like
really which is not a problem her character, like the
cocky smart because you're gonna have a kind of an
(01:30):
ego when you got all that going on, but it
can call some flaws and like her character as far
as development and writing and just always played out and
it'll almost make you not care about what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
To her character at times, make you be like, oh,
that kind of makes sense because she's a but all that.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I really honestly been to the point I feel like
this show was something then it really feels like it
should have came before with kind of Forever because the
way the whole it's not even an order story.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
But like how she learns a lesson.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
She don't even really learn her lesson because she's still
she still keeps doing stuff. So it would have made
like when they introduced her and kind of fever when
she was the guy was scared of her because he
was he needed help run. She had that threatening force
and her whole like how she approached sure, like her
(02:32):
whole attitude and stuff, like having that show before that
would have made that Okay, that's why she liked that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, she know like she she got it. Yeah, So
it would.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Have made it been like, Okay, it makes sense why
she's like that, because then it was like, wow, like
she's really irrigant.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
People have a problem with reread in her arrogance and
get on your point and cocking it and her being
just naturally, but they didn't have a problem with Iron Man,
who's literally the same the same, like literally the same character.
So it's okay for her to be it's okay for
her to be arrogant and with that the other. But
I think if we had the show where we thought
(03:14):
where it came from, not and not to discredit her
and herself, but just to see her like work with
the stuff and to see her build the fit and
that the other and how her struggles were, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
The other thing that's the you hit it on the
head right there.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I think that's what we was missing, like that, like
what where all of it came from. But it's people
who read the comments of course, like the backstory, what
happened when she built the suit and all that, but
they basically was just there to use her because she
built something because she could, and it's like, yeah, so
let's use you because we need to know why you
built this, and so it was like they just dropped
(03:52):
her in there, but as opposed to her already did
like an established character, which Marvel tends to do a lot.
Now they don't take the care like they used to,
like setting up these characters. They just say, Okay, we
got reread. Let's put reed Rey Williams in a in
the Black Panther film. You know why, we don't know
(04:13):
because as far as I know early on in the comics,
I know now she's done stuff with them. She wasn't
going to Wakanda on her like first venture, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So I was, I was so confused that they chose
to put in that movie.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
So I was like, okay, But like you said, like
with Tony, we got the first Iron Man. We saw
turning come to reality with his own inventions, his cockiness,
like we saw him face that all in that one movie,
and we saw what made him turn into the person
he was gonna become. And even with her, if she's
(04:49):
gonna if she's gonna stay like the person she is
and she's gonna keep continuing to have this this whole
ideology of I don't really have the answer to the rules.
I could do it want because I can't. If she
if that's what she's gonna be, then you have to
build onto that, make it hit strong if you're gonna
do it, because like you said, we don't have a
(05:10):
problem with a character like that. We love the characters
that's flawed. It's just stick it. You gotta because like
you said, she hurt being arrogant and smart is She's
literally that's Tony. She's just Tony Start. But she's a
kid out of Chicago.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Don't got money and don't got money that to fund
her her inventions, and that's that's her biggest thing. And
that's the biggest difference. One of the biggest difference between
her and Iron Man or Tony is that he had
he was born into like wealth, but he had not
only the smarts, but he had the funding to get
things done and get things progression.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
As you see.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
For her, she had her stuff built with solar panel
on it to power her shoe at one point in time,
which was cool. I'm outside, that was cool, and I
love the them going away from nanotech and going into
a physical life.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes, I was glad to see that.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Like for once, I'm like, yes, no nano tech bro
see the people get in the suit. That makes the
suit feel alive, like it's an actual person. It's still
a person with actually see the person get in the suit.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That's like what made iron Man like iron Man. When
I first thought.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
It was like yeah, yeah, that's why nano tech is
not my favorite.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I like the shield and the wraiths that come with.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It, but the way yeah with black panthers.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Second, Yeah, I like the first suit because he physically
puts it on, but the nanot is like.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Like a bullet a bulletin flying and it's.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Just right right on them. I do, even though it's
a it's a gray area.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Her Nano tack. I like that.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's like way more a little bit more sophisticated and
what it does for her then the Iron Man. It's
like a little bit more like personality in it, literal
personality because Natalie was the same minorhythms and everything of
someone that was like who is her? Of her friend?
But I feel like Jarvis. I feel like Jarvis wasn't
(07:15):
hidden like the way Natalie.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Was A program was literally a computer program. Yeah, programmed
to do ABC and that's what he did. Yeah. Yeah,
Natalie was like, hey, stop being stupid, stupid, and they
couldn't start. Yeah, I was just it's because she's a
manifestation of a memory and then locked in. You know,
(07:37):
this her core and she used that to create that AI.
So that AI is just as much as her as
it is the AI.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So like its almost like her conscious Yeah, exactly, and.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
At the will of its own it can do things
like it left her and then like it had to.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
But oh, you want to be stupid and see that's
the stuff that I enjoyed about it because it's like
it felt a lot of it felt very authentic our
culture and how we reas how we have the things
like only yes, we would have a suit that would
have a personality to get an attitude with us to
fly away and Lea's.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Hangings was out drive man.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
But it works. It doesn't feel like, oh they just
wrote this because of it worked like.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It was really nice and it was I know that's
something she gets in the comics. Like I'm not really
familiar too much with her comic, her early comics. I
know she was like she had an AI by Iron
Man or twenty AI or whatever in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I don't know much more than that.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So it was cool to see that, and it was
cool that they translated that from the comics to the
live action really well. And then I do that she
her final suit. I like their final suit. The way
I looked at the show, it looked great.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
It was so good.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I love her like the black and the ink and
the magenta like sou she has in there. But I'm
cool with that one. That one's cool. That's her new
look for her, like iron Heart.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Look.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I'm into it.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
That was cool because because I'm a car guy. Anyways,
I liked how that red popped on that black was nice.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
The only thing I had only the only one.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Thing I couldn't get with, but I just ignored it
after a while was the feet of the suit, Like
the way like it almost looked like high heels or something.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
But I was like, it's a nicknk thing. It was.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
It wasn't that bad, but I get once I saw
it in motion, I was like, Okay, I get it now,
you know.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And I like the no face she had she doesn't
really have like an iron Man had a mouth. She
had this like eyes and just like this sleek look.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
It was really cool. I'm a iro mean, I love
a good like suit.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
But like when I thought I even liked her in
my Tea one and she had the all white that
was that on was dope.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I like, I kind of transitioned into that second suit
that was still an M I T suit, but it
just feels like what she could put together.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And she like polished it and cleaned it out, and
I liked her like one the one she had when
Natalie was like taking control of it all the time.
Like that one it was more of like iron Man
like one before the proto fit, like when we had
that bulky one before he got like a sleeker one.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So it was a good transition between M I T.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
One that she could build out of fair parts, not
the not the cave.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Like you did, like thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah man, Like before we move on from this, I
will say this, I enjoyed everything just looking in and
just enjoy it for what it is as a show.
Of course, when I put my film cap on you,
I will say this, the first two episodes it was slow.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, I will this.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I personally wish I got more of that family idea
with the crew because it did feel like a family,
but I felt we only got like a little speakers
of it here, and yeah, like didn't really it didn't
hit as bad in the end when he didn't have
anybody because it was like it felt like they were
just like there for that purpose, just to help him out.
(11:23):
They were they was family and they was close, but
at the same time they.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Were working for him exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I felt like if we would have just pulled that
and got into that a little bit more, but I did.
I had no problem with the crew. A lot of
people was upset about characters. Yeah, but I didn't even
know who Slug was before fact.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I like Flug. I was like, okay, all right, she.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Was coming to it, like like when we really flipped
the cover and she got up and she and she
bucked out.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
She was like, I feel you, sister, because I would
have been out of that too. So I did. I
enjoyed the whole crew, John and his relationship, you.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Know, and Parker ended up he ended up being a
good villainy. I thought they was gonna try to like
make him be redeemable like before. At the end, I
thought they was gonna try to make me like, oh no,
he's not gonna get rid of them, or he's not
gonna try to kill a breath view or whatever. But
he went full into it and it was all validated
(12:34):
because when we found out what happened to him, I.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Was like, oh, his crash out is definitely deserved.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
He deserved to crash out, like your own dad, kick
you out, you don't want to raise you like what
he had. Funny, like, he didn't even have to raise you.
He could have just hired people to watch it. That's
like the most asshole move ever. So his Vielain order store,
it was deserved. Like everything was not. Everything he did
(13:02):
was right, but like his fresh was well deserved because
we saw why.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
He like went to being a villain because he had to.
He's like were they both have to do get their
hands during to be who they think they're supposed to be,
Like I think Mafesto because obviously Mafesto is a big boiler.
If he didn't think iron heart, now, I just ruined
it for you, Maesto and the big presence. And I
(13:28):
think honestly, since after let's say Doom saying with a
secret and the Doom says.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Something else, I think it was bigger.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I didn't want to say if it wasn't right, but
I think Mafesto will probably be a bigger bad in
the next.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Trade, like the thing they're not going to drop.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And him not go off a little bit, because that's
how we get ghost Rider for sure, ghost being in here.
And I heard somebody wanted they wanted they wanted that
Pete because Peter, I think he makes a deal with
Mafesto in the comics and this something happened with that,
and people want that to be part of his brand
new day scenario and they want him to show up
in that movie. And I think everybody wants professional just
(14:07):
to be around this because they every been talking about
him for wand Division for years, and even in she
Ho he was mentioned with that celebrity girl she and
that points back to the show because he was like,
I have blankey blankety blank under my under my contract
(14:28):
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
He has most of you talking about all the contract
and just even the fact that him talking about just
throughout history period, all the stuff he's done. I'm like,
like you said, definitely, definitely ghost Rider, ghost Riders that
Johnny Blade or if they decided to do the second
ghost Rider.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I always forget his name. You always say the one
who drive a muscle.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Car rig think of it right now.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, definitely that definitely it would be one one of
the people on his lists.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Like that would be cool because they're already technically if
they already technically have him in the NFU, they already
have the muscle a Car guy. He's already in the
U because he was in Agents of Shield or one
of those side projects that they did that they abandoned,
So he's technically already in the universe. They could just
really just pourt him in if they really wanted to.
(15:26):
I don't think they're going to, but they could.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Uh, They're probably gonna definitely go with place since he's.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Like, yeah, they're gonna go with the one that's been around.
I would say the longer out of the two, even
though I think the the newer one of the I
think he's stronger. I think they've made him a little
bit stronger than Johnny Blade. But I don't really know
too much about that guy like that, so I'm not
going to talk to you more about it. But I
do expect to see ma Festo being a bigger fact
(15:54):
because he even said, Demarmu.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
You don't even have the you don't even not even
worth my time.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Look, only very Cohen Boring himself can deliver those lines.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like it was perfect.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
When I seen him, I was like, that's probably like
they best casting a good man as far as like villains.
I was like, that was perfect. I could never really
think of who would be him. And then when I.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Saw I was like, that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
He's perfect.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And then the food that he was, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Saw actual, that was I did what?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
What's luck? Did I've seen that?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Did you like the introduction of which is part of
the Strange Academy?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I think even the Strange Academy?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yes, because pun intended we got magic again. Girl magic
we got, but we got some more black girl magic.
And this time it wasn't witches. It was sorceress. Because
I'm mom actually trained in common time, so this is
like sorcery and which crap.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So I was like yes, And then she was bad.
She was like around and put him in around. I
was like, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
That, and then they're teaming up hood and her teaming
up at the end or something. I wonder, but they
said her origins are done, with origins already been shown.
Apparently he's already I think her actress said that I
think is Reagan. He said that is that we've already
(17:36):
seen it or something like that. So Stranger, I'm cool
Strange Academy.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I like seeing Doctor Strange and magical things. I'm cool
and American because honestly she's around.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
She's like, honestly, what we haven't seen Stephen Strange, we
haven't seen Doctor Strangers is what Multiverse man this right?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, he dipped off with that one lady something.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, So I think that's our tie in. I think
if they do Strange the Academy, that a tie into
some of the young Avengers. Day gets how we get America
Chavis on the team because she was trading under Wong
at the end of Multiverse a Madness if I.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Remember correctly, So it'd be good for that'll get America
Choldvits on there.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Then we need really a Hawkeye season too, which it's
up in the air right now. It could be up
hey Greece, it could be on a younger Vengers team now,
so they need to look. I don't know if they're
going to ret on that ending, because we got to
talk about the ending, so I don't know if they're
going to recond the ending and bring her in and
not even have that be a part of her thing
(18:44):
and address it either in the season too, or like
just be like, oh, she's fine now, because her making
that deal with Mafeta was like, I did not.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Like it because it literally takes everything back that she
went through. The whole show was for nothing, if that's
the deal and she made the deal, like everything we
just went through with her was off of nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It's okay.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
She kept making mistakes, kept lying, kept feeling like she
didn't have to abide by the rules, kept using people,
having this and that, and it's okay, when is she
gonna learn? And then when we finally felt like she
was learning and getting those lessons and trusting people and
opening up and even like letting her guard down even
to have like affection physique, the whole thing with the
(19:30):
AI and accepting it was Natalie Like all of.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That was coming all in.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And then like even when she went to get the Hood,
we was like, okay, she gonna get the Hood. She
gonna take it back to them and let them take
it to doctor Strange or Commonize or whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That's what I'm thinking. She sits down.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I was like oh, after everything she just went to
she gonna probably like, man, fuck off, Bro, and then
we get that. I'm like, Bro, just went through all
of that nothing, So you have to if it's an
explanation to it, it has to be explained or we
have to know, like you can't. Okay, let's just say
(20:11):
it's not a season too, right, we don't get a
season two. The next thing is gonna be Doomsday, So
it's okay, are we gonna get something about her Doomsday?
Is it gonna be something? Here's what is it gonna be?
Because that's literally a cliffhanger.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I think rat coon. I believe a rat coon.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, you almost have to.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Because this fell came out or within production, and I
think they said it it's been flowed around for a
few years.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Because the years the years are like twenty twenty five
in the show right now Marvel there what twenty twenty
eight almost.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Twenty like that, they're far in it. But I think
won the rat con.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
But too, I think like her wishing Natalie to be alive,
it's just spitting in the faith of her brother, just
literally but he said he didn't he that he did
not want her have an AI version of her sister
and bringing her back to life.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
And it's selfish. It's almost selfish.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It's very self which fits her character because she was
very selfish in the show. But it's like, after everything
we just went through, she still end up being very selfish.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Yo as squirrel.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
She's not happy about it about it not today either,
my computer?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Are me main.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Trying to But yeah, man, really five, it's bro. We
just we made all that.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Progress, but nothing like you bring Natalie back? Why it
defeats the purpose of having the AI.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
She I think she's just not going to bring the
AI back. I mean these or she's gonna realize that
it's not Natalie and we're gonna go through that whole
season of her realizing it's not Natalie and it's some
demon or something like that, which we could have avoided
because she didn't Honestly, she wouldn't have made the deal.
But I mean to say, she's felfish, but she's not stupid, Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
She's very intelligent.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
And that's why I was like, all right, her intelligence
is going to have her and not make that deal
either a trick him to thinking she made he made
a deal with her and she didn't something. They gotta
explain that because technically we didn't see her shape. And
from what I'm getting, you have to shake his hand
to complete the deal.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That's that's what I'm That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
That's my theory. I could be completely wrong. You can
say yes word of mouth, but we didn't see I
see a.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Deal shake or work.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, we just flashed to a theme of Natalie being alive,
which it could honestly be a dreamer. And that's It's
like she told what they to get live and he
just okay, and she's mean that hurts. She came to
life or whatever and she wakes up and look, I'm
just trying to write.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I'm just trying to write them away out of this
because I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Because now not only away from King and now we're
doing dude, but now you gotta explain where have been
been doing.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You already know what they're gonna do.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
They're gonna do like the little montage when you say,
what was that, Oh, it wasn't a movie. It was
a fan film that remember the Power Ranges fan film
When they found out it was Rita the whole time
whispering yeah, the ear to do stuff. That's what you're
gonna see with Professor. He's gonna be whispering in people.
(23:41):
He might be on the bench at the park something
or little stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
So where do you think he's gonna shot up next?
Where do you think? What movie?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
If you do see a movie, where do you think
it showed up? Because we're the thing is. I think
the next phase is gonna be like cosmic or something
like that. So I don't know if he really show up.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
But I definitely think he got a chance of showing
up in Doomsday because who else better to make a
deal with him next than Victor if he has Because
Victor is not gonna make a deal with him to
have power, money, somebody back.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Because he has all that, He's probably.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Gonna make some kind of deal where like he can
bring all the people to that world or he can
do it's gonna be it's.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Gonna be like a chess game.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I could see that working because that dynamic and that
would be cool to just see R d J and very.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
That would like I'm getting okay with iron Man thing Adam.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Lately, it's almost like that thing where like you can't
run from it because it's already sitting stones, So you
gotta gotta's on the plate and I gotta eat him
or I can't have my cake.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So yeah, And like I said, I don't die out.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
An actor or anything like that. I think he will
kill it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's marvel marvelous.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
This is who I'm worried about every time something comes up,
like with Fantastic for I'm very excited about it, but
it's just that the fact it's still marvel, so I
have to like lower my expectations just a little bit,
like a little high, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
That's it's been the company, not the people or the actors.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Sometimes the writers is not the writers all that, because
studios have just the biggest say in the final writing
and the.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Actual writers do so exact.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
It's not the writers, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
It's always this.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's always that the money test audiences didn't like a
movie that we haven't shown to the actual audience, scrap.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
It, which is which I will say this about this show.
This had to be the one of the most poorly
advertised Disney shows since they've been doing them. They didn't
start advertising for this show almost a month before. Yeah,
when it was announced, like you said, two years ago,
(26:07):
and then the actual like when it was wrapped and
everything was done. It was like a year ago, we
got like a teaser, but it wasn't even a teaser.
It was like a clip of her in the Disney
Plus thing D twenty three and comic cons So we
didn't get a.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Trailer until a month ago. And it's okay. I even
had sent all the message.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I was like, I'm on here on the day of
the premiere on Disney play on the show, even before
show premiers. It's on that little like when you scroll
through the main menu like stuff to watch, it's on there,
like the day before, on the day of, like it's
not there and I had to click in the search
to go find it. It just I just had to
(26:51):
put that out there. It was very poorly advertised that
the pr was bad.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Like everything.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
It was that up for failure. They it up for failure,
and the way they.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Put it out, it's almost like they was shoving it
down my throat, like all at one time. It's like
here's the trailer, here's the interviews, here's when they talk
about the movie, here's Ryan Coogle, Like it always coming out.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Like they were just like they were just like watch
and I was gonna watch it, but I was like, dang, man,
but you know what I'm a say. If you know
I'm an say, I don't like the fixth episode structure.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Okay, I've been.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Saying it for four years, man, especially if you're gonna
give it to three and three and that. I'm like,
you could have just gave him all six at one
time if you really.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, I don't agree now, and that would have fixed
the painting with the family.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
He would have got an episode or so.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And actually, if you really want to do six episodes,
doing forty five minutes doing Lucky didn't Loki. Look, I'm
watching Lokey right now. Them things, the forty five apiece.
It's good, don't get me wrong. I'm nothing with it
heavy but or Agatha too, y'all, y'all get the Agatha.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Agatha is great. I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
We got death in the universe now, so like, I'm
cool the acting this, I'm cool about it. I've been
getting caught up on my shold. I've been have a
I see forget it. But I've been like i've been
this weekend. I'm just with dingeon a week and I
was like, I ain't doing nothing, but get back to
the point off. Give them forty five minutes if you're
gonna do like that, give them forty five minutes to
an hour, if you're gonna do six episodes.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
That way you have enough time to build that family relationship.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Even with three and her mom, you could have gave
them a little bit more time, and there's the grief
and stuff for it to fill. For thinking a little
bit more and not have it be just like the
beginning of an episode where we see what happens to
a scept that and her friend. You can build it
into a thing, which I liked at the end that
they played it played the AI played like a part
(28:54):
of her dad, and like how she got iron headed
on the fucking that.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Was Its basically saying you've always been hard headed. You
see what where it gets you when you're hard headed.
Look at this lesson and learn from it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And she did.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
And it's like she got hit on the head better
for and then physically when she was a girl, and
then she got it.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
She locked in.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
So yeah, it's yeah, go ahead, because I think about
say the same things.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It's mathy.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
It needs a little bit more pay thing. The paything
needs to be stretched out a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Six episodes. You can't do a lot.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
You're not going on my laptop. You can go down.
I'm not going to bold you. I know how it's wrong.
He just wants attention and I'm not giving her.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Hurry up, finish with that man with the beard. He's
always taking up your time.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Tat right back. Hey you guys, all right, like you're happy.
Now you're happy. I'm not yelling at you. Okay, it's cool.
I just don't want her to keep on the keys.
Then everything be going like exactly. She's cool. It's just
she Yeah, you stepping let me see you.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Oh, come on through one hand, Okay, stay here, it's okay,
all good.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
You don't want to Okay, you don't do that.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
She's a night usually he just loved and go about it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Let me set you up a little spots playing the day.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
There you go nice, it's lovely. Okay, she took it.
Podcast cats. You see our podcast mapcots.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
We're cat lovers here, all right. No, I don't even
know what you're saying. Bro, you're saying something I don't remember.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That threw me off. I was on to that moment.
I got caught up in a moment. But I will
say this because honestly, I think I said like just
about everything show. Going back to your point, six episodes
is not long enough for for a show when you're
establishing a character, trying to show these dynamics between other characters,
(31:23):
because if you think about it, this show had a
lot of characters to have six episodes and I ain't
talking about what we just touched on one and it's
okay blue to like they were all a part of
the story, like even with Zeke, because we didn't even
talk about Zeke.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That's overdized.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
We got another legacy connected. It's two people connected to
Tony in a way. So you got that story going that,
you got the whole hood with Park and his crew,
got that story that, you got Reich's outside story with
her fan like with her mom and with z and
with the AI, and then the little story side story
(32:05):
woven woven in there. But what's her face? It was
so much going on for six episodes. We gotta keep
up with all that. And that's why I said that
it can affect the writing because it's like you gotta
it felt like this sometimes it felt it was like this, Okay,
say the line, punchline, but say this, get there. It
(32:26):
would feel like that sometimes, and then we would have
the moments where it was like we're here, Like those
last three episodes were very like yeah, agree, I just think,
like you said, the sixth episode structure, it gotta stop.
If we're not gonna, if we're not gonna do more
than six, make it a film. That's just quite blame, Like,
(32:49):
you gotta make it a film because it's not enough.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
We don't have enough time to be with the characters.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Flash.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Marvel didn't want to make it into a film. It
didn't stand by the project. That's why, oh none at all.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
You can tell you can tell this, Okay, we get it.
We're not even gonna get into those reasons because everybody
knows why. We had a whole podcast about that. So
if you want to check that out, it's a woke
podcast about Marvel.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Check that out.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Yeah, shamous plug, yeah and all. Like I said, it
was a good show. I enjoyed it. I didn't have
a problem with it. My only problems was, like I said,
pacing six structure, six episode structure, some of the writing.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
The character.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
And then but other than that, the other stuff Z
reread it was some good gems in that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
But I would give it a strong seven.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, I agree, strong seven, strong seven. Yeah, I would
give it. I've given a strong seven just because of
these things, like the ending kind of threw me off.
I would have given it like a Honestly, I would
have been more willing to give it a seven point
five or closer to it.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Eight of that inning wasn't as bad. I didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I personally didn't like it. I think a lot of
people are mixed about it, and that's okay. If you
like the ending, that's fine. I'm not out here one
of these people that are hating on it just for
the fact that the reasons. I'm not one of those
those people that just hate on things to hate on
things to the certain things and certain characters, yeah, or
or Flood for being a sexuality or yeah, sexuality.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
And hating on her for that. That ain't me, all right,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That ain't me, And hopefully that's and hopefully that's not
our fans.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
If you want of those people, you gott to hop
up out of here just saying because we don't.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Understand that over here we stand with every buddy. So
take that for whatever way you want to. But without
being said you have any final marks.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
That's it, man, I got it all off my chips.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Oh I'm good. I was chilling. I got everything I
need to say. There ain't not I need to get up.
I needed that p A at the end of what
we need to say. You have to now, man, because
you say some criticism about something, people thinking in a
certain category and right with them.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And people I don't even know them? Who what huh
huh huh without being funny, without being said, you know
what time it is.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You know what time it is. It's time for a
good old shame. Listen.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, yeah, you like the video? Like it?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Comment let us know if you like the iron Heart.
If you're one of the people that don't like, I hurt,
let us know there, but be simple about it. Don't
make it you bad get only know that crap. Also,
where do you think iron Heart is going to show up?
And then the next and also do you like did
you like the Enning?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Were we wrong? Share the share this video?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Hit The notification on the right of the video notified
up future videos and falls on our social or Instagram,
never x and we have a discord and we have
a reddit under the same name for our table.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
And that's that. And I've been your oath.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
To me j and I've been your host markets aka
market mall he.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
And it's been as Groundtable podcast. We are out deuces.
Welcome back to this podcast, are freaking geeks. I'm your
host Demitris.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm your host Mark and Moe.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And we are here to talk about a great show. Well,
it's got some problems with it, but it's I liked
it overall.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
It's a good show. Yeah, good show.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Yeah, not perfect, but good iron Heart with founding Thorn
as iron Heart or agree, which is good.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
How do you feel about her, because I know you
had you and Black Panther to have have a little
bit of beef. How do you feel about her her
coming from that to this show? How do you feel
about that transition?
Speaker 4 (00:46):
I feel I'll say this, I feel like this show
felt like it was supposed to come before Black Panther.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Okay, we'll kind of family, and.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
I think if it did, it would have made her
character and way stronger.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
And wakinda forever.
Speaker 4 (01:03):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Yeah, you get my drift whatever. I've watched it again.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
It's not as bad, but it's okay, all the feels
and all that. Besides, it wasn't the worst movie. I've
come to grips with that movie now look back. Even
looking back on that like the way they introduce like
really which is not a problem her character, like the
cocky smart because you're gonna have a kind of an
(01:30):
ego when you got all that going on, but it
can call some flaws and like her character as far
as development and writing and just always played out and
it'll almost make you not care about what happens.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
To her character at times, make you be like, oh,
that kind of makes sense because she's a but all that.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I really honestly been to the point I feel like
this show was something then it really feels like it
should have came before with kind of Forever because the
way the whole it's not even an order story.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
But like how she learns a lesson.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
She don't even really learn her lesson because she's still
she still keeps doing stuff. So it would have made
like when they introduced her and kind of fever when
she was the guy was scared of her because he
was he needed help run. She had that threatening force
and her whole like how she approached sure, like her
(02:32):
whole attitude and stuff, like having that show before that
would have made that Okay, that's why she liked that.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Yeah, she know like she she got it. Yeah, So
it would.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Have made it been like, Okay, it makes sense why
she's like that, because then it was like, wow, like
she's really irrigant.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
People have a problem with reread in her arrogance and
get on your point and cocking it and her being
just naturally, but they didn't have a problem with Iron Man,
who's literally the same the same, like literally the same character.
So it's okay for her to be it's okay for
her to be arrogant and with that the other. But
I think if we had the show where we thought
(03:14):
where it came from, not and not to discredit her
and herself, but just to see her like work with
the stuff and to see her build the fit and
that the other and how her struggles were, you know.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
The other thing that's the you hit it on the
head right there.
Speaker 4 (03:30):
I think that's what we was missing, like that, like
what where all of it came from. But it's people
who read the comments of course, like the backstory, what
happened when she built the suit and all that, but
they basically was just there to use her because she
built something because she could, and it's like, yeah, so
let's use you because we need to know why you
built this, and so it was like they just dropped
(03:52):
her in there, but as opposed to her already did
like an established character, which Marvel tends to do a lot.
Now they don't take the care like they used to,
like setting up these characters. They just say, Okay, we
got reread. Let's put reed Rey Williams in a in
the Black Panther film. You know why, we don't know
(04:13):
because as far as I know early on in the comics,
I know now she's done stuff with them. She wasn't
going to Wakanda on her like first venture, you know
what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
So I was, I was so confused that they chose
to put in that movie.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
So I was like, okay, But like you said, like
with Tony, we got the first Iron Man. We saw
turning come to reality with his own inventions, his cockiness,
like we saw him face that all in that one movie,
and we saw what made him turn into the person
he was gonna become. And even with her, if she's
(04:49):
gonna if she's gonna stay like the person she is
and she's gonna keep continuing to have this this whole
ideology of I don't really have the answer to the rules.
I could do it want because I can't. If she
if that's what she's gonna be, then you have to
build onto that, make it hit strong if you're gonna
do it, because like you said, we don't have a
(05:10):
problem with a character like that. We love the characters
that's flawed. It's just stick it. You gotta because like
you said, she hurt being arrogant and smart is She's
literally that's Tony. She's just Tony Start. But she's a
kid out of Chicago.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Don't got money and don't got money that to fund
her her inventions, and that's that's her biggest thing. And
that's the biggest difference. One of the biggest difference between
her and Iron Man or Tony is that he had
he was born into like wealth, but he had not
only the smarts, but he had the funding to get
things done and get things progression.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
As you see.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
For her, she had her stuff built with solar panel
on it to power her shoe at one point in time,
which was cool. I'm outside, that was cool, and I
love the them going away from nanotech and going into
a physical life.
Speaker 2 (06:00):
Yes, I was glad to see that.
Speaker 4 (06:02):
Like for once, I'm like, yes, no nano tech bro
see the people get in the suit. That makes the
suit feel alive, like it's an actual person. It's still
a person with actually see the person get in the suit.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
That's like what made iron Man like iron Man. When
I first thought.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
It was like yeah, yeah, that's why nano tech is
not my favorite.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
I like the shield and the wraiths that come with.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It, but the way yeah with black panthers.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Second, Yeah, I like the first suit because he physically
puts it on, but the nanot is like.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Like a bullet a bulletin flying and it's.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Just right right on them. I do, even though it's
a it's a gray area.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Her Nano tack. I like that.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
It's like way more a little bit more sophisticated and
what it does for her then the Iron Man. It's
like a little bit more like personality in it, literal
personality because Natalie was the same minorhythms and everything of
someone that was like who is her? Of her friend?
But I feel like Jarvis. I feel like Jarvis wasn't
(07:15):
hidden like the way Natalie.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Was A program was literally a computer program. Yeah, programmed
to do ABC and that's what he did. Yeah. Yeah,
Natalie was like, hey, stop being stupid, stupid, and they
couldn't start. Yeah, I was just it's because she's a
manifestation of a memory and then locked in. You know,
(07:37):
this her core and she used that to create that AI.
So that AI is just as much as her as
it is the AI.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
So like its almost like her conscious Yeah, exactly, and.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
At the will of its own it can do things
like it left her and then like it had to.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
But oh, you want to be stupid and see that's
the stuff that I enjoyed about it because it's like
it felt a lot of it felt very authentic our
culture and how we reas how we have the things
like only yes, we would have a suit that would
have a personality to get an attitude with us to
fly away and Lea's.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Hangings was out drive man.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
But it works. It doesn't feel like, oh they just
wrote this because of it worked like.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
It was really nice and it was I know that's
something she gets in the comics. Like I'm not really
familiar too much with her comic, her early comics. I
know she was like she had an AI by Iron
Man or twenty AI or whatever in the beginning.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I don't know much more than that.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
So it was cool to see that, and it was
cool that they translated that from the comics to the
live action really well. And then I do that she
her final suit. I like their final suit. The way
I looked at the show, it looked great.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
It was so good.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I love her like the black and the ink and
the magenta like sou she has in there. But I'm
cool with that one. That one's cool. That's her new
look for her, like iron Heart.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Look.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
I'm into it.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
That was cool because because I'm a car guy. Anyways,
I liked how that red popped on that black was nice.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
The only thing I had only the only one.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Thing I couldn't get with, but I just ignored it
after a while was the feet of the suit, Like
the way like it almost looked like high heels or something.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
But I was like, it's a nicknk thing. It was.
Speaker 4 (09:32):
It wasn't that bad, but I get once I saw
it in motion, I was like, Okay, I get it now,
you know.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And I like the no face she had she doesn't
really have like an iron Man had a mouth. She
had this like eyes and just like this sleek look.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
It was really cool. I'm a iro mean, I love
a good like suit.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
But like when I thought I even liked her in
my Tea one and she had the all white that
was that on was dope.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I like, I kind of transitioned into that second suit
that was still an M I T suit, but it
just feels like what she could put together.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
And she like polished it and cleaned it out, and
I liked her like one the one she had when
Natalie was like taking control of it all the time.
Like that one it was more of like iron Man
like one before the proto fit, like when we had
that bulky one before he got like a sleeker one.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
So it was a good transition between M I T.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
One that she could build out of fair parts, not
the not the cave.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
Like you did, like thank you, thank you.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
Yeah man, Like before we move on from this, I
will say this, I enjoyed everything just looking in and
just enjoy it for what it is as a show.
Of course, when I put my film cap on you,
I will say this, the first two episodes it was slow.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
Yeah, I will this.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
I personally wish I got more of that family idea
with the crew because it did feel like a family,
but I felt we only got like a little speakers
of it here, and yeah, like didn't really it didn't
hit as bad in the end when he didn't have
anybody because it was like it felt like they were
just like there for that purpose, just to help him out.
(11:23):
They were they was family and they was close, but
at the same time they.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Were working for him exactly.
Speaker 4 (11:29):
I felt like if we would have just pulled that
and got into that a little bit more, but I did.
I had no problem with the crew. A lot of
people was upset about characters. Yeah, but I didn't even
know who Slug was before fact.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
I like Flug. I was like, okay, all right, she.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
Was coming to it, like like when we really flipped
the cover and she got up and she and she
bucked out.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
She was like, I feel you, sister, because I would
have been out of that too. So I did. I
enjoyed the whole crew, John and his relationship, you.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Know, and Parker ended up he ended up being a
good villainy. I thought they was gonna try to like
make him be redeemable like before. At the end, I
thought they was gonna try to make me like, oh no,
he's not gonna get rid of them, or he's not
gonna try to kill a breath view or whatever. But
he went full into it and it was all validated
(12:34):
because when we found out what happened to him, I.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Was like, oh, his crash out is definitely deserved.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
He deserved to crash out, like your own dad, kick
you out, you don't want to raise you like what
he had. Funny, like, he didn't even have to raise you.
He could have just hired people to watch it. That's
like the most asshole move ever. So his Vielain order store,
it was deserved. Like everything was not. Everything he did
(13:02):
was right, but like his fresh was well deserved because
we saw why.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
He like went to being a villain because he had to.
He's like were they both have to do get their
hands during to be who they think they're supposed to be,
Like I think Mafesto because obviously Mafesto is a big boiler.
If he didn't think iron heart, now, I just ruined
it for you, Maesto and the big presence. And I
(13:28):
think honestly, since after let's say Doom saying with a
secret and the Doom says.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Something else, I think it was bigger.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I didn't want to say if it wasn't right, but
I think Mafesto will probably be a bigger bad in
the next.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
Trade, like the thing they're not going to drop.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
And him not go off a little bit, because that's
how we get ghost Rider for sure, ghost being in here.
And I heard somebody wanted they wanted they wanted that
Pete because Peter, I think he makes a deal with
Mafesto in the comics and this something happened with that,
and people want that to be part of his brand
new day scenario and they want him to show up
in that movie. And I think everybody wants professional just
(14:07):
to be around this because they every been talking about
him for wand Division for years, and even in she
Ho he was mentioned with that celebrity girl she and
that points back to the show because he was like,
I have blankey blankety blank under my under my contract
(14:28):
or whatever.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
He has most of you talking about all the contract
and just even the fact that him talking about just
throughout history period, all the stuff he's done. I'm like,
like you said, definitely, definitely ghost Rider, ghost Riders that
Johnny Blade or if they decided to do the second
ghost Rider.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I always forget his name. You always say the one
who drive a muscle.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Car rig think of it right now.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Yeah, definitely that definitely it would be one one of
the people on his lists.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Like that would be cool because they're already technically if
they already technically have him in the NFU, they already
have the muscle a Car guy. He's already in the
U because he was in Agents of Shield or one
of those side projects that they did that they abandoned,
So he's technically already in the universe. They could just
really just pourt him in if they really wanted to.
(15:26):
I don't think they're going to, but they could.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Uh, They're probably gonna definitely go with place since he's.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Like, yeah, they're gonna go with the one that's been around.
I would say the longer out of the two, even
though I think the the newer one of the I
think he's stronger. I think they've made him a little
bit stronger than Johnny Blade. But I don't really know
too much about that guy like that, so I'm not
going to talk to you more about it. But I
do expect to see ma Festo being a bigger fact
(15:54):
because he even said, Demarmu.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
You don't even have the you don't even not even
worth my time.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Look, only very Cohen Boring himself can deliver those lines.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Like it was perfect.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
When I seen him, I was like, that's probably like
they best casting a good man as far as like villains.
I was like, that was perfect. I could never really
think of who would be him. And then when I.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
Saw I was like, that's perfect.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
He's perfect.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
And then the food that he was, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Saw actual, that was I did what?
Speaker 1 (16:33):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (16:34):
What's luck? Did I've seen that?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Did you like the introduction of which is part of
the Strange Academy?
Speaker 3 (16:42):
I think even the Strange Academy?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yes, because pun intended we got magic again. Girl magic
we got, but we got some more black girl magic.
And this time it wasn't witches. It was sorceress. Because
I'm mom actually trained in common time, so this is
like sorcery and which crap.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So I was like yes, And then she was bad.
She was like around and put him in around. I
was like, okay.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
That, and then they're teaming up hood and her teaming
up at the end or something. I wonder, but they
said her origins are done, with origins already been shown.
Apparently he's already I think her actress said that I
think is Reagan. He said that is that we've already
(17:36):
seen it or something like that. So Stranger, I'm cool
Strange Academy.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I like seeing Doctor Strange and magical things. I'm cool
and American because honestly she's around.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
She's like, honestly, what we haven't seen Stephen Strange, we
haven't seen Doctor Strangers is what Multiverse man this right?
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, he dipped off with that one lady something.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Yeah, So I think that's our tie in. I think
if they do Strange the Academy, that a tie into
some of the young Avengers. Day gets how we get America
Chavis on the team because she was trading under Wong
at the end of Multiverse a Madness if I.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Remember correctly, So it'd be good for that'll get America
Choldvits on there.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Then we need really a Hawkeye season too, which it's
up in the air right now. It could be up
hey Greece, it could be on a younger Vengers team now,
so they need to look. I don't know if they're
going to ret on that ending, because we got to
talk about the ending, so I don't know if they're
going to recond the ending and bring her in and
not even have that be a part of her thing
(18:44):
and address it either in the season too, or like
just be like, oh, she's fine now, because her making
that deal with Mafeta was like, I did not.
Speaker 4 (18:51):
Like it because it literally takes everything back that she
went through. The whole show was for nothing, if that's
the deal and she made the deal, like everything we
just went through with her was off of nothing.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
It's okay.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
She kept making mistakes, kept lying, kept feeling like she
didn't have to abide by the rules, kept using people,
having this and that, and it's okay, when is she
gonna learn? And then when we finally felt like she
was learning and getting those lessons and trusting people and
opening up and even like letting her guard down even
to have like affection physique, the whole thing with the
(19:30):
AI and accepting it was Natalie Like all of.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
That was coming all in.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And then like even when she went to get the Hood,
we was like, okay, she gonna get the Hood. She
gonna take it back to them and let them take
it to doctor Strange or Commonize or whatever.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
That's what I'm thinking. She sits down.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
I was like oh, after everything she just went to
she gonna probably like, man, fuck off, Bro, and then
we get that. I'm like, Bro, just went through all
of that nothing, So you have to if it's an
explanation to it, it has to be explained or we
have to know, like you can't. Okay, let's just say
(20:11):
it's not a season too, right, we don't get a
season two. The next thing is gonna be Doomsday, So
it's okay, are we gonna get something about her Doomsday?
Is it gonna be something? Here's what is it gonna be?
Because that's literally a cliffhanger.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I think rat coon. I believe a rat coon.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Yeah, you almost have to.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Because this fell came out or within production, and I
think they said it it's been flowed around for a
few years.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
Because the years the years are like twenty twenty five
in the show right now Marvel there what twenty twenty
eight almost.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Twenty like that, they're far in it. But I think
won the rat con.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
But too, I think like her wishing Natalie to be alive,
it's just spitting in the faith of her brother, just
literally but he said he didn't he that he did
not want her have an AI version of her sister
and bringing her back to life.
Speaker 3 (21:14):
And it's selfish. It's almost selfish.
Speaker 4 (21:16):
It's very self which fits her character because she was
very selfish in the show. But it's like, after everything
we just went through, she still end up being very selfish.
Speaker 3 (21:29):
Yo as squirrel.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
She's not happy about it about it not today either,
my computer?
Speaker 3 (21:39):
Are me main.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Trying to But yeah, man, really five, it's bro. We
just we made all that.
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Progress, but nothing like you bring Natalie back? Why it
defeats the purpose of having the AI.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
She I think she's just not going to bring the
AI back. I mean these or she's gonna realize that
it's not Natalie and we're gonna go through that whole
season of her realizing it's not Natalie and it's some
demon or something like that, which we could have avoided
because she didn't Honestly, she wouldn't have made the deal.
But I mean to say, she's felfish, but she's not stupid, Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
She's very intelligent.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
And that's why I was like, all right, her intelligence
is going to have her and not make that deal
either a trick him to thinking she made he made
a deal with her and she didn't something. They gotta
explain that because technically we didn't see her shape. And
from what I'm getting, you have to shake his hand
to complete the deal.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
That's that's what I'm That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
That's my theory. I could be completely wrong. You can
say yes word of mouth, but we didn't see I
see a.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Deal shake or work.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
Yeah, we just flashed to a theme of Natalie being alive,
which it could honestly be a dreamer. And that's It's
like she told what they to get live and he
just okay, and she's mean that hurts. She came to
life or whatever and she wakes up and look, I'm
just trying to write.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
I'm just trying to write them away out of this
because I don't see it.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Because now not only away from King and now we're
doing dude, but now you gotta explain where have been
been doing.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You already know what they're gonna do.
Speaker 4 (23:20):
They're gonna do like the little montage when you say,
what was that, Oh, it wasn't a movie. It was
a fan film that remember the Power Ranges fan film
When they found out it was Rita the whole time
whispering yeah, the ear to do stuff. That's what you're
gonna see with Professor. He's gonna be whispering in people.
(23:41):
He might be on the bench at the park something
or little stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
So where do you think he's gonna shot up next?
Where do you think? What movie?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
If you do see a movie, where do you think
it showed up? Because we're the thing is. I think
the next phase is gonna be like cosmic or something
like that. So I don't know if he really show up.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
But I definitely think he got a chance of showing
up in Doomsday because who else better to make a
deal with him next than Victor if he has Because
Victor is not gonna make a deal with him to
have power, money, somebody back.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Because he has all that, He's probably.
Speaker 4 (24:17):
Gonna make some kind of deal where like he can
bring all the people to that world or he can
do it's gonna be it's.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Gonna be like a chess game.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
I could see that working because that dynamic and that
would be cool to just see R d J and very.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
That would like I'm getting okay with iron Man thing Adam.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
Lately, it's almost like that thing where like you can't
run from it because it's already sitting stones, So you
gotta gotta's on the plate and I gotta eat him
or I can't have my cake.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
So yeah, And like I said, I don't die out.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
An actor or anything like that. I think he will
kill it.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
It's marvel marvelous.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
This is who I'm worried about every time something comes up,
like with Fantastic for I'm very excited about it, but
it's just that the fact it's still marvel, so I
have to like lower my expectations just a little bit,
like a little high, you know.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
That's it's been the company, not the people or the actors.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
Sometimes the writers is not the writers all that, because
studios have just the biggest say in the final writing
and the.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Actual writers do so exact.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
It's not the writers, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
It's always this.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
It's always that the money test audiences didn't like a
movie that we haven't shown to the actual audience, scrap.
Speaker 4 (25:45):
It, which is which I will say this about this show.
This had to be the one of the most poorly
advertised Disney shows since they've been doing them. They didn't
start advertising for this show almost a month before. Yeah,
when it was announced, like you said, two years ago,
(26:07):
and then the actual like when it was wrapped and
everything was done. It was like a year ago, we
got like a teaser, but it wasn't even a teaser.
It was like a clip of her in the Disney
Plus thing D twenty three and comic cons So we
didn't get a.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Trailer until a month ago. And it's okay. I even
had sent all the message.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
I was like, I'm on here on the day of
the premiere on Disney play on the show, even before
show premiers. It's on that little like when you scroll
through the main menu like stuff to watch, it's on there,
like the day before, on the day of, like it's
not there and I had to click in the search
to go find it. It just I just had to
(26:51):
put that out there. It was very poorly advertised that
the pr was bad.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Like everything.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
It was that up for failure. They it up for failure,
and the way they.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
Put it out, it's almost like they was shoving it
down my throat, like all at one time. It's like
here's the trailer, here's the interviews, here's when they talk
about the movie, here's Ryan Coogle, Like it always coming out.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Like they were just like they were just like watch
and I was gonna watch it, but I was like, dang, man,
but you know what I'm a say. If you know
I'm an say, I don't like the fixth episode structure.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
Okay, I've been.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Saying it for four years, man, especially if you're gonna
give it to three and three and that. I'm like,
you could have just gave him all six at one
time if you really.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Yeah, I don't agree now, and that would have fixed
the painting with the family.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
He would have got an episode or so.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And actually, if you really want to do six episodes,
doing forty five minutes doing Lucky didn't Loki. Look, I'm
watching Lokey right now. Them things, the forty five apiece.
It's good, don't get me wrong. I'm nothing with it
heavy but or Agatha too, y'all, y'all get the Agatha.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Agatha is great. I love it.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
We got death in the universe now, so like, I'm
cool the acting this, I'm cool about it. I've been
getting caught up on my shold. I've been have a
I see forget it. But I've been like i've been
this weekend. I'm just with dingeon a week and I
was like, I ain't doing nothing, but get back to
the point off. Give them forty five minutes if you're
gonna do like that, give them forty five minutes to
an hour, if you're gonna do six episodes.
Speaker 3 (28:31):
That way you have enough time to build that family relationship.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Even with three and her mom, you could have gave
them a little bit more time, and there's the grief
and stuff for it to fill. For thinking a little
bit more and not have it be just like the
beginning of an episode where we see what happens to
a scept that and her friend. You can build it
into a thing, which I liked at the end that
they played it played the AI played like a part
(28:54):
of her dad, and like how she got iron headed
on the fucking that.
Speaker 4 (29:00):
Was Its basically saying you've always been hard headed. You
see what where it gets you when you're hard headed.
Look at this lesson and learn from it.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And she did.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
And it's like she got hit on the head better
for and then physically when she was a girl, and
then she got it.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
She locked in.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
So yeah, it's yeah, go ahead, because I think about
say the same things.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
It's mathy.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
It needs a little bit more pay thing. The paything
needs to be stretched out a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Six episodes. You can't do a lot.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
You're not going on my laptop. You can go down.
I'm not going to bold you. I know how it's wrong.
He just wants attention and I'm not giving her.
Speaker 4 (29:45):
Hurry up, finish with that man with the beard. He's
always taking up your time.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Tat right back. Hey you guys, all right, like you're happy.
Now you're happy. I'm not yelling at you. Okay, it's cool.
I just don't want her to keep on the keys.
Then everything be going like exactly. She's cool. It's just
she Yeah, you stepping let me see you.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
Oh, come on through one hand, Okay, stay here, it's okay,
all good.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
You don't want to Okay, you don't do that.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (30:28):
She's a night usually he just loved and go about it.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Let me set you up a little spots playing the day.
Speaker 3 (30:40):
There you go nice, it's lovely. Okay, she took it.
Podcast cats. You see our podcast mapcots.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
We're cat lovers here, all right. No, I don't even
know what you're saying. Bro, you're saying something I don't remember.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
That threw me off. I was on to that moment.
I got caught up in a moment. But I will
say this because honestly, I think I said like just
about everything show. Going back to your point, six episodes
is not long enough for for a show when you're
establishing a character, trying to show these dynamics between other characters,
(31:23):
because if you think about it, this show had a
lot of characters to have six episodes and I ain't
talking about what we just touched on one and it's
okay blue to like they were all a part of
the story, like even with Zeke, because we didn't even
talk about Zeke.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
That's overdized.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
We got another legacy connected. It's two people connected to
Tony in a way. So you got that story going that,
you got the whole hood with Park and his crew,
got that story that, you got Reich's outside story with
her fan like with her mom and with z and
with the AI, and then the little story side story
(32:05):
woven woven in there. But what's her face? It was
so much going on for six episodes. We gotta keep
up with all that. And that's why I said that
it can affect the writing because it's like you gotta
it felt like this sometimes it felt it was like this, Okay,
say the line, punchline, but say this, get there. It
(32:26):
would feel like that sometimes, and then we would have
the moments where it was like we're here, Like those
last three episodes were very like yeah, agree, I just think,
like you said, the sixth episode structure, it gotta stop.
If we're not gonna, if we're not gonna do more
than six, make it a film. That's just quite blame, Like,
(32:49):
you gotta make it a film because it's not enough.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
We don't have enough time to be with the characters.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
Flash.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Marvel didn't want to make it into a film. It
didn't stand by the project. That's why, oh none at all.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
You can tell you can tell this, Okay, we get it.
We're not even gonna get into those reasons because everybody
knows why. We had a whole podcast about that. So
if you want to check that out, it's a woke
podcast about Marvel.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Check that out.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Yeah, shamous plug, yeah and all. Like I said, it
was a good show. I enjoyed it. I didn't have
a problem with it. My only problems was, like I said,
pacing six structure, six episode structure, some of the writing.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
The character.
Speaker 4 (33:41):
And then but other than that, the other stuff Z
reread it was some good gems in that.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
But I would give it a strong seven.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, I agree, strong seven, strong seven. Yeah, I would
give it. I've given a strong seven just because of
these things, like the ending kind of threw me off.
I would have given it like a Honestly, I would
have been more willing to give it a seven point
five or closer to it.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
Eight of that inning wasn't as bad. I didn't.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I personally didn't like it. I think a lot of
people are mixed about it, and that's okay. If you
like the ending, that's fine. I'm not out here one
of these people that are hating on it just for
the fact that the reasons. I'm not one of those
those people that just hate on things to hate on
things to the certain things and certain characters, yeah, or
or Flood for being a sexuality or yeah, sexuality.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
And hating on her for that. That ain't me, all right,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (34:45):
That ain't me, And hopefully that's and hopefully that's not
our fans.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
If you want of those people, you gott to hop
up out of here just saying because we don't.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Understand that over here we stand with every buddy. So
take that for whatever way you want to. But without
being said you have any final marks.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
That's it, man, I got it all off my chips.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Oh I'm good. I was chilling. I got everything I
need to say. There ain't not I need to get up.
I needed that p A at the end of what
we need to say. You have to now, man, because
you say some criticism about something, people thinking in a
certain category and right with them.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
And people I don't even know them? Who what huh
huh huh without being funny, without being said, you know
what time it is.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
You know what time it is. It's time for a
good old shame. Listen.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Yeah, yeah, you like the video? Like it?
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Comment let us know if you like the iron Heart.
If you're one of the people that don't like, I hurt,
let us know there, but be simple about it. Don't
make it you bad get only know that crap. Also,
where do you think iron Heart is going to show up?
And then the next and also do you like did
you like the Enning?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Were we wrong? Share the share this video?
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Hit The notification on the right of the video notified
up future videos and falls on our social or Instagram,
never x and we have a discord and we have
a reddit under the same name for our table.
Speaker 3 (36:40):
And that's that. And I've been your oath.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
To me j and I've been your host markets aka
market mall he.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
And it's been as Groundtable podcast. We are out deuces.
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