Matt Hammitt’s Life-Changing Lessons on Vulnerability and Family

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think men definitely run and charge towards obstacles or work or things to do.

(00:05):
But when it does come to the emotional things or relational things, we can run away.
Even though we're running towards something, we can go, we're running towards these important things
that we have to accomplish or do. But sometimes doing that is actually the motion or action
of running away from the thing we need to sit in.

(00:28):
Hey, welcome to the show. Today on Stand Up Dude, we are joined by Matt Hammitt. He is a singer,
songwriter, author, and speaker whose heart for faith, family, and singing truth have made him
a fixture in Christian music. Former frontman for Sanctus Real, Matt has pinned hits, walked
through hard seasons and now crafts music and messages that are as real as they are beautiful.

(00:53):
We're excited to hear what God's doing in his journey now, not just looking back. So, Matt,
welcome to the show. Really good to have you. Yeah, great to be here. Thank you so much.
Faith, family, and song. I mean, those sound like awesome words, but that really is what you do.
I've never heard three words that were more accurate about a man and that's Matt Hammett.

(01:17):
So, thank you. Yeah, 100% that's what you do. Thank you. I want to steal that bio. You just
write, I'm like, well, it might be, it might be the best bio anybody's ever. I'll write that.
It might have been. I'm gonna, we love this guy. Owl. He used to be a great writer. He never
sleeps. Yeah, I made him steal that from Mal. No big station. No calls and stick.

(01:39):
That's the best. Well, Matt, I want to, again, just welcome. I want to share a quick story,
just about the kind of guy that Matt is. Yeah, man. We know each other outside of the show and everything.
When there was a difficult season in my life, Matt reached out. And he's just like, hey, man,
let me take you to lunch. Took me to an amazing lunch at Perry's. It was the best pork chop

(02:03):
I've ever had in my life. Dream about it every day. But he just sat there, heard my story,
and then just related. He's like, man, I feel you. I know what you're going through. So,
not only is he like the guy you see on stage and the guy you hear speaking, but he is who he says he
is. He's the same guy off stage. So just wanted to, you know, toot your horn there a little bit.
Yeah, that means a lot, man. I was grateful to be able to sit together. Yeah, I appreciate that.

(02:27):
And that's a man that loves this man. Thank you. Thank you for doing that. Yeah. This
ministry is called Stand Up Dude. And that's what that was right there. Yeah, if that people do it
for me. And so any chance I get, man, you know, it's like you have good community that teaches you how
to, I think the natural inclination when you see people walk through hard seasons is to like,

(02:51):
I'll give them some space or we'll just kind of, you know, as I said, like for all of us, like I know
for me when I've been going through hard times, transitions, whatever it is, man. It's like some
people are like, I remember actually even when my son was in the hospital back in the early days of
maybe 2010 when he was born and my wife and I ended up in the hospital for a couple months actually.

(03:13):
And there are a lot of people who are really close to me who said, well, I just didn't want to bother
you. I wanted to give you space to process, you know, and I remember even in that moment remembering
the people who like heard, you know, about what was happening and they just like reached out. And
that meant so much. Just that people in that moment like not be worried about giving me space,

(03:36):
put to like press in and say, hey, I'll just, you know, just let me, what can I do? How can I help?
And I think that was like a big time for me where I learned that lesson and just really wanted
to extend that to other people because I know how important it is, you know. That's something on,
like stand up dude as a whole kind of our vision and mission is reaching men. And I think it's
something that men especially like Christians need Christians, Christian men, Christian women,

(03:59):
but men especially need men who will reach out extend that arm and just be like, hey man,
I'm there for you. And it's true. I'm guilty of it. I've done the same where I'm like, I don't want to talk,
you know, I'll leave them be they'll figure it out. And oftentimes what they're really needing is just
somebody to sit with them. Like you don't have to solve their problems. You just need to be with them.
Yeah, let them figure it out. It is interesting because this whole conversation definitely does

(04:24):
scratch kind of an epidemic amongst, like men's culture, you know, that we so often do isolate as
opposed to come together in community. You know, it's funny because I when I left think it's real,
I started this men's conference where I'd take my family with me and we would go and we'd do a
weekend at a church. And it was it's funny because I look back and I go, man, like all the women's

(04:48):
conferences that I've ever been asked to speak at or be a part of, like these women, it's like those
tickets go on sale or that registration opens up and boom. It's like it's full. They're excited.
They're present. They're ready. They do what they're supposed to do. Yeah. But trying to do a men's
conference. It was the some of the hardest work of my life. And it was fruitful. But it was like

(05:13):
just getting them to make the decision to come or really show up or and not do it at the last second.
It's just it's brutal. Yeah. And I know part of that is like a lot of guys are working hard all
week. They got the weekend with their family. And it's like to take a weekend away from the family
is a big deal. But it's just the I think it's that hesitancy to engage in something that could,

(05:41):
you know, open you up and have to have real conversation. I really want to go do this right now.
You know, where's women are just like, where can I go? Where can I have a conversation with a bunch
of women? Yeah. Yeah. So I worked at a church years ago and it was an hunting community.
Big community. And like men, you could get them to show up to hunting it, you know, three in the

(06:05):
morning and all that, which couldn't get them to show up on a Saturday at these church events.
And it is. It's this tedious process of just getting them used to the idea. And I think it is because
we as men, we want to be comfortable. We want to be in control of what we're doing and not risk
being known and embarrassed. And man, I think that's a really good word right there. Yeah.

(06:27):
I think part of what happens also is, you know, you mentioned that it's hard for for guys to
to kind of show up because, you know, they're busy and to take a Saturday off and go away from the
family. But guess what? Mama does it. And they are most likely got more jobs going on on Saturday

(06:49):
than we do. Just go ahead and probably think that that's the way that it goes. But I think what
we do, it may be as men, is we wrap all kind of stories around false stories that run around like
little reels in our head that we listen to that for the winds up the tape. And it's some story about

(07:10):
I don't have time. I can't show up. I, you know, it's basically it's a little protection like we've
stepped on that they don't want to be potentially cracked open. It's a lot easier to stay busy.
So I am on the contrast. I think women don't have that story. They're like, oh great. I get to be
with the ladies. It's going to be exciting. Matt's talking. There's going to be some good music. I

(07:34):
guarantee he's going to say something that's I'm going to feel and let's go. And I'm going to invite
three friends. Oh, yeah, you already know about it. Okay. You know, and then guys are like,
well, you know, you said something interesting there too. I think the idea of I think men definitely
run and charge towards obstacles or work or things to do. But when it does come to the emotional

(07:56):
things or relational things, we can we can run away. You know, it is interesting or like you said,
even run to the tasks to run to as a way to even though running towards something we can go,
we'll run in towards these important things that we have to accomplish or do. But sometimes doing
that is actually the motion or action of running away from the thing we need to sit in. Right?

(08:20):
Exactly. I think we're more into kind of fix. At least that's what we, you know, I'm praise God.
Men are made to do the hard things. But often we don't take the time for ourselves. We will fix
our little girl's bike that breaks, I hope, we will help the wife fix this thing that is bugging her

(08:43):
about the light, you know, in the kitchen. But man, when it comes to sitting with and getting real
with with our own self, you know, so just this, this actually this podcast is about calling men forward
into being in that space. And so thank you very much for for bringing that up. I can't believe we're

(09:04):
at it. Just a few minutes into this podcast is not what we plan. But I mean, we pray that the Lord would
lead us. And so thank you. Thank you. It's encouraging to hear you recognize that space and to be
both speak into it with experience. So thank you. Comestations was having, man. Yeah. So man, I have a
question for you then. You are a person who you seem to have become open to that vulnerability

(09:31):
yourself. Was that something that you started out in or how did you arrive at this place where
you're like, I'm willing to be real with other guys? Yeah. I think it was always something that
came somewhat naturally to me like through artistry, through song or being on stage,
being able to share pieces of my life that felt vulnerable. And it just that never really,

(09:57):
if they didn't bother me, you know, I actually, I really felt that connection with a listener,
you know, if I went through something, I put it in a song and then it went out of the world,
the connection I had with listeners that they would express was always just really a gratifying,
not reward, you know, I mean, it's like outcome of that. And also being on stage, sharing stories,

(10:21):
open a my heart and just getting real with people and seeing how a crowd would even respond
in a room who came for a concert and then they find themselves being pulled into what feels like
a moment of community and then hopefully healing. And so I think I always was kind of naturally

(10:42):
bent towards that. However, it took a while for me to actually express that same vulnerability
and private groups with friends and communities of men. Yeah. I think it was almost easy for me to feel
like I was doing that work on a stage where it was easy. And it sounds weird because you're like

(11:05):
you're in front of people and it doesn't sound like that's the easier way, but it is, right? Because
I don't have to do life with those people. Yeah. I show up. Yeah. We do our thing, pack up, move to
the next city and I don't have to sit and whatever happened there, vulnerable together with someone

(11:26):
in community, you know? And so it was almost like I could almost trick myself into thinking that I
was vulnerable enough because I did it on a rather basis night after that on stage. But it was lacking
in my personal life with my friends in private spaces. And I think, you know, with my close brothers,
like in Sanctus, real, you know, I would share things with them, of course. But I was definitely lacking

(11:50):
community outside of that church community with other men. And I wasn't the one going outside of
those walls of my little comfortable bus and stage at the time for the, you know, 15 years
that I toured with them. We were banned for 20 years. There's crazy. So that would ban this Sanctus
real. Yeah. So say in CTS. Yep. Are you are. So and we just check it out. Yeah. They're amazing. Yeah.

(12:19):
Really check it out. Yeah. In the show notes. Yeah. And they're still going, you know, I was with them
from 1996. We went high school signed in 99 to spare records, made seven records and then
stepped away in 2016. But I would say it really was at that point where I was kind of left to go,

(12:40):
okay, I don't have my cushy little community on the bus with my friends of know since I was in high school.
And you know, I can't just be on stage every night because I stopped touring for a while and
doing that thing. And I had to figure out like, well, man, like how am I using my life and my story
now to connect with other people in a way that's meaningful in community. And I had really at that

(13:01):
point step out and figure out how I was going to go beyond my comfort zone and engage other men
in that, you know, yeah. I think COVID too really did it for us because we realized like,
our lonely we were and it's like, oh, well, how do we pull people in and how do we open up? COVID was
kind of that like everybody initially was like, this is great. I get like a six week vacation. And

(13:24):
by like week seven, you're going, okay, I got to get out of here. I got that can't be with these people.
You know, this family of mine or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, there were a lot of divorces instead of
times. You just realized you're looking at your cohabitating. You want to be like living life together.
And I think to your point though, that is the thing that if you don't have that already, then when

(13:45):
the storm comes, yeah, you're you're going to get tackled. So, okay, so there's a few directions. I
want to go, but I know you talk about your son, Boeing. There's even an amazing documentary that you
guys have done and what's the name of that? Yeah. So, Boeing's heart. Boeing's heart. Yeah. And it's

(14:08):
we're kind of in between distribution channels. So we ended our deal with the last distributor that
so it might be there might be a season where it gets taken down for a little bit. But I think
people right now can still in the couple months will still be able to go to pretty much any platform
and watch it. Well, nothing, nothing drives urgency like a limited time. Yeah. But yeah, if you guys,

(14:28):
I would recommend going out and checking that out as soon as you can. It's a big deal. You alluded to
it earlier though, like with your son's health and in the hospital. Briefly, could you just kind of
touch on that, explain that. And then my follow up to that is really was this sort of the beginning
of more of the vulnerability of the honesty. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. How old is he?

(14:50):
Yeah. So he's 15 now. Okay. It's 2000. I couldn't help but think of wonder how old is because around
2016 you withdrew from the from from the band and you and I'll think that that maybe with the time
that you used to sit in that space. So I don't want to interrupt the flow, but I was couldn't help
but wonder if 2016 had anything to do with you through yourself. It did for sure. Yeah. So in 2010,

(15:14):
we found out that Bowen had a severe heart disease and he really only had half of his heart.
So to find out that your kid only has half of his heart, you know, while still in utero was like,
okay, well, what do we do? And they told us it wouldn't grow. But that he could possibly live if

(15:35):
you had three open heart surgeries after he was born. And so that season, even like from April to
September of 2010, when we found after we found out just sitting feeling kind of helpless going
to different specialists and doctors and trying to figure out what to do. And that was a crazy time

(15:56):
because I mean, the biggest piece of advice we got from a lot of specialists was just like and
and your pregnancy. You know, and that is obviously father as someone who you know has a biblical
worldview and really shit with the Lord was like disheartening to me because I'm like, no, I don't want
to end this child's life. I want to fight for these child's lives. And that's what I'm called the

(16:17):
do is his father. And so we just started pulling people around us and to pray and I started to
blog called Bowen's Heart and just ended up like Caleb was talking about an Australia station across
the country with like a million people come to the blog that year. And it was wild. Just the people

(16:38):
who came around us. But after he was born, it was tough man. It was it was hard. And I don't know if we could
have I mean, God would have gotten us through, but I know that also the prayers of all those people
carried us through. It was like over two months in the hospital. And so first surgery, we almost lost
him. He had one evening where after one of the surgeries, he actually coded his heart stop

(17:06):
beating. And he was basically dead for 45 minutes on his except for the fact that there was a nurse
like just pumping his heart to try to keep my life. And so the Lord really gave in that moment,
you know, that mystery of why he gives and why he takes like, I don't know, it's hard sometimes
when you talk about miracles like for me because I'm like, for us, that was a miracle. But I also

(17:28):
know a lot of people who I don't get the miracle, you know, but so we don't take it for granted at all
that God in that moment gave us that miracle of keeping our son and
been through two other surgeries even after that. And so it's been a real journey with Bowen,
not just having the the feelings of how do I navigate sickness? How do we navigate moments of crisis

(17:56):
together as a family? But then also like, how does it impact my other kids and how it's impacted my
marriage and how the grief of having a sick child and going through those moments really puts a
marriage through a fire. I think it's some of those some studies that say like 70 some are above
70% of couples with kids with chronic illness divorce. And I think part of that at least for Sarah and

(18:24):
I where we could I could we could I could see like, oh, this is how people can get pulled apart is you
just grieve and process so differently throughout. And because you grieve and process in different
ways, it can be hard to understand the way the other person grieves. Oh man. And so you're grieving
differently than separately. Then you've got all this tension that like you're almost you become

(18:53):
not intentionally angry, but you can almost become angry that like, I need a partner and they're not
meeting me here in my grief in the way that I need to be met. Yeah. And vice versa. And so now
there's that whole chasm between you of how you deal with it. And then the pressure some that
pressure cooker too can just cause that explosion at times, you know, well, I need this from you and I

(19:14):
need this from you. And for Sarah and I it was actually she was at the bedside 24 hours a day solely
focused on his health, which is amazing. So I'm okay, Mama bear, but there were times that I needed her
as her as her husband together for us to like get together even for an hour. Let's go have lunch.

(19:35):
Let's go go walk. Let's like just get our heads together to take this on as a team. She felt like
that was selfish of me to ask her to like step away. Yeah. Even for a moment for fighting for
her son that she thought, well, you should be here too 24 hours a day, you know, like right here

(19:55):
fighting as hard as the man harder than me. But I'm like, that wasn't the way I knew how to fight.
And for me, I was like, I also felt like I didn't know where to find my space in that because she was
so front and center and all that. And I'm like, I don't know what other question to ask. I don't know
what other thing to do here. And then I would go in the afternoon, sometimes the hospital and
process like I'd write the blog. That was my way of fighting. Keep our family friends updated and

(20:20):
invite people to pray, build a community of people who gathered around us in prayer. And she thought,
well, how can you go do this? And so it was like, and so in those moments, it was just like,
she was resentful for you not showing up. Yes. You were resentful for her for not showing up.
Exactly. And there's that alienation that separation, which is just nasty really. It is.

(20:42):
Yeah. It's so much pain in your heart. I have felt that. Yeah.
Another end. Exactly. And as other similar situations, people feel that same tension.
And so navigating that on top of a sick kid, you know, was just a gnarly, gnarly season of life.
But out of it, we've got a 15 year old kid now who the doctors, not all the doctors,

(21:08):
but several doctors told us would break our family. And God used that brokenness to make us more
holy. Yeah. That's what God does. So that's him. Wow. That was just reading in James today when it says
like, consider it pure joy when you encounter trials, not because the trial is so great. Yeah.

(21:30):
But knowing that the testing of your faith produces perseverance and you let it have its perfect work.
Yeah. And the perseverance produces. It was honest. Caracter. Yeah. Character. Yeah. So we, I think culturally,
by, you know, could be Western culture or whatever, we tend to shy away from difficulty. Like,

(21:51):
I do not want to volunteer for anything that's difficult. Really? If I'm honest. But to see how God
uses those things and he often has to bring those things about because it's like, I could tell you
this, I could tell you that this is a part of your heart that I'm working in. Yeah. But it's not how we
work. It's not how we change usually. Yeah. And it's, it requires those, those things. But just,

(22:17):
and even thinking of that, thinking of the ministry that you guys have had because of that trial and
others, I wanted to dig into you guys have four kids. Yeah. And I know that impacts your whole family
as you're dealing with that. But I knowing your family, like, I want to say you have awesome kids.

(22:37):
They're awesome. The way that they have been shaped, I'm sure there are things in all of that. But
God's faithfulness in you as parents and just loving them and not making them feel like
the old. There's no one else in their lives at the moment with attention except what the crisis is.
Yeah. And I'm sure there are moments where that's happening. Yeah. Man, first of all, thanks for saying

(23:02):
that about the kids. I agree that I mean, you know, we're always praying. We know they'll all, at some
point, go through tough seasons, whatever that looks like and we'll navigate that as it comes. But
right now, it is sweet to see that each one of our kids does have a desire to do what's right. And

(23:23):
they have a desire to navigate what God is saying to them and to our family. And I think
because we're on vulnerability piece, it was interesting. I had somebody ask my 20th, well,
to be 20 in February. So 19 year old daughter, Emmy, who you know very well. I had someone ask her in

(23:45):
front of me, like, they said, Emmy, you're like an amazing kid like her young adult, you know, it's like
I want a he said, I'm raising a daughter. Will you tell me what your parents did?
That was like I was in the blood. I was in the mouth like, oh my gosh, I don't know what she said.

(24:06):
And you know, she said, she said, I felt like my parents both were always willing to talk about
anything and everything that was difficult throughout. And I knew that anything I did or thought
or said or whatever would be met with like a conversation to be able to have a safe space to talk

(24:27):
all the time. And so, man, that's so interesting because we could go back to the vulnerability piece.
She was basically saying that because she'd never had to be scared or afraid or like no question
was stupid, no experience was to witty, you know, that she could bring anything to us and know that

(24:48):
we would have open arms and open ears and open hearts to have the conversation. And also, I would say,
one thing my wife has modeled for me over the years is not just being available for the heart
conversations, but really pressing in on the heart conversations. The best example of this for me
was I came home with my daughter when Emmy was eight years old from being on the road. And she

(25:13):
comes out and I want to do it on the podcast because but she came out running out to my car, making
a motion with her hands and said, daddy, mommy told me, it was very obvious that my wife had had
the sex talk with our eight year old daughter. Why was gone? No way, mommy told me. Mommy told me.

(25:37):
I was like, at first I was like, I kind of like felt like taking off guard. I kind of felt upset. She
had it about me. I kind of felt like she's eight years old. Is that too soon? Because my wife is like,
like she's very, very open, you know, about things. And sometimes like I'm a little more reserved

(25:59):
western things that can make me uncomfortable. But in that moment, when I heard why my wife had had
this conversation, it was like she had noticed that they were starting to hear stuff around the
neighborhood that was a perverted version of what of what, you know, we needed to be teaching them.
And she and that moment didn't waste the opportunity to engage in that moment to dispel the lies with

(26:24):
the truth. Even though it was like pretty like for me, like I'm like, way, is that too much truth for
that age? I don't know. The we know she, but she like answered all their questions. All right,
her, all her questions. And I was like, you know what, man, if she said, we don't answer them,
or we don't engage. I was like, here, right, if we don't do it, somebody else is teaching our kids.

(26:45):
And so she taught me a lot about that. The willingness to break those uncomfortable barriers to say what
needs to be said, even if it just seems like too much. Yeah. Yeah. If I could say something about the
way I've raised my kids that are different than the way that my parents raised my brother and I that

(27:07):
were 13 months apart. So we're pretty close there. I think that that my parents, that generation,
I guess I'd be boomer or something before that anyway. No, definitely before that. They,
I'll just go with my dad. My, the men were not encouraged to express vulnerability or weakness

(27:31):
or mistakes. Yeah. Okay. And so I didn't hear pretty much any of that. Now I heard a lot of beautiful
things from a dad. Great dad, but I didn't hear that. And so what I'm a former drug addict and
alcoholic got 36 years of sobriety now. And so when my kids were born at around eight, seven, six,

(27:57):
10, I started having some serious conversations. And what I chose to do that was different than the
way that I was brought up is I began to share with them my struggles. They wanted to know, well,
what kind of drugs and well, what do those do? I'm talking that kind of stuff. Yeah. I never had
my, that conversation with my dad. And so why I even mentioned it is, is I love how your, how your wife

(28:21):
modeled vulnerability. And now your kids don't feel vulnerable, which is pretty crazy.
And so I, I, I think maybe I was tracking with your story thinking, I wonder if I think that,
that might be something similar that my kids might say because we've always been open. So I
say that to encourage others that are listening that if you're a dad or a young parent or mom,

(28:47):
praise God, if you're a mom, thank you for listening. Would be to, to, to model
vulnerability in your own life. And it will open the door for them to be the same. So,
and they get to see you as a real person and not a perfect person, which, which opens the door
to have conversations like your, your, your, your children, or getting older now said,

(29:14):
that's what made the difference in my life because my parents spoke up. They were honest. They,
they shared their mistakes. They shared their weaknesses. And anyway, thank you for, I just thank you
on behalf of all the kids out there and young people for, for modeling that. And, and if that's,
it's never too late for you. If you, you can start now for your parent. And if you're not a parent,

(29:36):
I have a feeling you guys probably would have modeled that anyway because it's the kind of
generation you are and I love that about you. So, yeah, you said something really interesting just now
that I hadn't thought about in the way that you said it. You said they don't feel vulnerable
because they've been taught to be vulnerable. And that, that is a really interesting thought. Because

(29:58):
sometimes, yeah, we feel vulnerable, which puts us in the defense, right? Yeah. Whereas like, if you're,
like already just taught to be vulnerable and you live, you are vulnerable. It's a way of being
then like, in a way, you're protected. It's hard to like describe. Well, you said like,

(30:20):
gave me this image of like, like, they're not vulnerable. Almost like it's see like, to the attacks
of certain things too because it's a way of life. They're almost shielded by the being of vulnerability
so that they're not susceptible in a way to like, I'm trying to like explain the picture,

(30:41):
but it's really hard, but I just loved what you said about that. It's like, it's like, they're
protected in a way through the vulnerability that they have to like, I guess, like the negative
feeling of vulnerability. I don't know if that makes sense, man. The way I tried to rephrase that.
Well, you did just make it into pictures. I know. You know, I just kind of saw it, saw like a shield.

(31:06):
It's almost a shield. It's like a shield that comes up and it protects them and they stay afraid
and extremely vulnerable inside of that shield. They're like, no, no, no, no, no. Here it is. It's
semantics a little bit, but it's almost like being vulnerable doesn't make you vulnerable.

(31:27):
Yeah. That's maybe the way to say it. Yeah. That's, I don't know. There's a cool kind of thing you
said that made that image. That's something in there. Yeah. That's strength of vulnerability.
Yeah. Do it. Well, so I want to, I think that's a good spot for like just digging in to our
audience, you know, as men 18 to 48ish or so. And thank you if you're older or young. Yeah.

(31:53):
There's a lot of friends that are there's no limitations. No, I appreciate you saying that, but
it's all the three year old men. Seven year old and eight year old men. Whoo. They're out there
listening. Thank you. Thank you. I wanted to get into one of your songs as solo artists,
lead me. Yeah. Yeah. I think that has had such an impact on men in particular because it is,

(32:16):
it's like an anthem of vulnerability yet it's also challenging to men. I know I'm sure you'd ask
all the time. Talk about what made what went into writing that song and all that, but more so like
how have you seen that impact men's lives? Yeah. Yeah. Man, that was very, came out of the

(32:40):
very difficult season of marriage. Sarah was on the road with me. She was saying to
Israel for like four or five years almost the beginning. She literally went from our honeymoon
into a 15 passenger van touring with a bunch of guys. I think it was like going to a tour with
like the news boys and a bunch of audio adrenaline and all these guys. Yeah. And then after so many

(33:07):
years she became pregnant and obviously couldn't be on the road anymore. And so she had to leave road life.
So now you've got like her at home doing the family dream and I'm out there pursuing the career
dream. And so now I've got this like tension between career dream, family dream that every guy feels
and where is that balance? You know, we're trying to figure that out as a young dad,

(33:32):
grind in at this dream and this thing in this career that's growing and probably about seven years
into our marriage after being out there for those few years without her. And we were home some,
but I mean we'd go out for like a month and a half at a time when they get a little break.
And I remember just walking through the door and she I always whenever I share this story,

(33:56):
when I'm speaking I always say that you know she said the words that every man longs to hear.
She said we need to talk. He was. We did not want to hear those words. Talk. It's like anything with that.
Man, he's got to come on the lawn again. Hey, I'm in trouble. B. I'm not going to know what to say.

(34:16):
And no, geez, Louis. Yeah. And we were in a pretty interesting cycle of conflict. I say interesting.
Pretty best cycle of conflict at the time. And so I was probably honestly in a bit of a defensive posture
because of some of my own wounds, you know. And but the Lord just gave me grace man to hear what she

(34:39):
had to say that day and to kind of shut my mouth and open my ears in my heart. Yes. And she just
said I need you to. She said it's like you're here, but you're not here. Yeah. You're out there.
Providing thank you, but I need you and your heart. And I need you to lead a spiritually and

(35:00):
emotionally and in presence. And she said I need you to lead me. Those are some of the words that
came out of her mouth that day. And man, it just pierced my heart because I saw the thing that really
kind of got me in that moment. And it's the opening line of the song. So this is like kind of just
show people that like it wasn't just like a lyric I wrote in a room with some writers like it was

(35:25):
this literally happened. I was looking at our wedding picture sitting next to me in our dining room.
And she was just like glowing in that picture. Just anticipation and excitement and hope
about like what the future would be. And then here I am seven years later. And that same woman is
across from me like in tears, you know, red swollen face like completely broken in spirit. And I'm like

(35:49):
contrast just broke me. And so you know, the line of that song and picture frames, I see my beautiful
wife, but on the inside I can hear her saying, you know, it's like leave me. And so yeah, that day
I wrote the first draft of that song, man. And I think what the Lord is really speaking to me

(36:10):
as an I'm kind of maybe as an umbrella fodder or stame that I can wrap it up in this. That whole
conversation made me realize that my good intentions as a father or husband were absolutely worthless
until they became actions. You know, based in the reality of who God was calling to me to be

(36:31):
and who she needed me to be. And I had to take a real hard look at like
I think I had a lot of highlight reels in my head that
maybe think that was the reality to her of who I was to them. It was like all my intentions of like,
okay, I want to spend more time with them, I want to pray more with them, I want to spend more time with

(36:52):
the kids, I want to be more present. All these thoughts and imaginations of what I wanted to do almost
became my reality. And I had to realize like, oh, that person that I want to be might not be the
person I actually am. I might be imagining. Looking in the mirror that way, it's really hard.
I basically like taking the imaginary life of good intentions that we play in our head
and being willing to strip that back and go, oh wait, how does how do people I love actually see me?

(37:19):
Now how do I see me? How do they really feel? What's it really like to be across from me?
And I had to embrace that reality that day and it was hard because that means you have to meet it
and you have to change. Yeah, man. And so
I just like you if you don't know really. I mean, yeah, wait a go. That's I mean, did the hard

(37:39):
really hard work. It is very brave. And I've still obviously have areas of my life. I'm still trying
to do that with, right? Still in process, but in that moment, I felt like I was able to start taking
those steps. And that's is what I call my leavey journey. You know, my leave me journey is moving from
being a man of good intentions to man of action. And that's that's the journey that I I tried to

(38:03):
continue to be on. And when you know, you know, the irony of that song is I wrote this song about being
a more present husband and father. Then the president of a record label record label heard the demo.
It was like, why isn't this song not out in the world? And then it became a big hit. And it became
such a big song that it actually took me away from home even more. That was the irony of it.

(38:27):
Yeah. God was like, I got a little more to teach you. I like in your own stupidity. Yeah. And asking for
patience. I'll show you patience. Yeah. And but it also was the song. So full circle that I had people,
thousands of people out on the road singing back to me every night. Yeah. And those words actually were

(38:48):
the very words that called me back home that you needed to hear. Yeah. Oh my god. So pretty crazy.
Yeah. So and then the 2016 just new man, Lord was was using using the message of that song and
everything that it meant to me to call me off the road to be with my family more. So and I stepped
away and sank to stroke actually kept going. And today they're still out there with a new singer

(39:14):
and they're doing great. They're saw playing and making music. And and I'm out still I leave me as my
life song and it's my life prayer and it's become the kind of springboard that God has used to to
put me into a whole new season of ministry. You know that I can see now that that was his plan and
his design and he opened those doors and the more people asked me to come share that story. The more I

(39:37):
kind of built on that ministry of other dads and other fathers and become a big piece of what I do now.
Yeah. So well I appreciate it. I know it's something for guys who watch the show and stuff. It needs to be
the very thing we all say like Lord I need you and I love that about the song as you get to
a gospel center to focus on it too where you're like God I can't do this I need you I need you to

(40:02):
lead me just as much as as your wife needs you to lead her and I think that that's something like
as men we think like you you hinted on you're not hinted you said it very clearly we judge ourselves by
our intentions you know we we think well that can't be and I just recently had this conversation
with somebody we're looking at ourselves and we will excuse the wrongs we've done because we'll

(40:27):
just go well that wasn't my intention. Yeah well then you you have to take ownership of it it's
like it's possible to hurt somebody without intending to do it. Yep. And when you do it are you going
to own it or you're going to go well it's impossible like there's no way I could have done it because
that's what me I love that you confronted yourself and I think that's something for the men who watch

(40:49):
this and listen to the show we need to do we need to really like you said sit across from yourself and go
am I really who I think I am am I the person I want to be and how is that transforming or becoming
reality or not in my life. It's a hard truth to really accept that wanting to do good is not the same
as doing good. Yeah. Or not wanting to do wrong doesn't mean you haven't done wrong. Yeah. It's like

(41:13):
yeah you got to grasp the reality of like yeah who am I really. Yeah. I said this on the last podcast
love this short quote from Henry Ford the maker of Ford cars. He said what I'm doing is better than
what you're talking about. Wow. That is that. Yeah. Yeah. And I want to to be like that. Yeah.

(41:41):
Just to be invited to what God's doing is it allows you to be able to do what other people are
just talking about. He met you know your song lead me. I know there's I love so many layers of that by

(42:02):
the way. There's going to be men out there that have never been vulnerable enough to not just say hey
I need you God you help me a little bit here. God show me tell me what to say tell me what to do
tell me where to go. But to have that time where they say lead me and make them their their boss

(42:27):
in essence of their life where perhaps as you have said that the idea that they had in their life
of what it meant to be led by God and some some image that they've created that that may not be

(42:47):
the image that God has. Would you lead them into being able to say that and being in that
vulnerable, vulnerable, very vulnerable position to say lead me no matter where it is how follow I
will go. And so would you take that opportunity for for with some men here that are willing to be

(43:12):
really brave. Yeah absolutely. Yeah I think as men so often we get caught up in our own wisdom
or what we think is our own wisdom. But I think what you need to challenge ourselves is the wisdom of the
world kind of affected us or our own idea of you know who we should be versus who God really wants us

(43:37):
to be and is calling us to be. I think it is a moment to have a heart check and have a prayer and say
Lord am I seeking your wisdom or am I seeking my own wisdom or the wisdom of the world. And the
only wisdom that's good in depth that's infallible that is sure fire that is eternal as God's wisdom.

(43:58):
And so I would encourage you just to say a prayer like Lord. Lead me to where you want me. Now where I
need I think I need to go but where you want me to go. And I also would say you know then a guy's out
there who have not really made Christ the Lord of your life or the center of everything that you do

(44:22):
maybe he's this peripheral figure that you're like oh yeah Jesus is cool or I love Jesus or maybe
like you go to church you go through the motions that he's this peripheral character on the outside
of everything you do that kind of garnishes it to make you feel good. I would really encourage you
like are you willing to open up the bubble open up the the armor and let him in to the vulnerable spaces

(44:53):
where you're going to have to actually make real change. Oh buddy. So my prayer for you is that
if you haven't actually invited Christ from the peripheral to the inside stuff that you would do
that today. If they've never done that we give them some words to to borrow here. Yeah absolutely.
I mean the Bible says you know we've all sinned falling short of the glory of God but if we confess

(45:20):
with our mouth and believe in our heart that Jesus is Lord that you'll be saved and so and I just
encourage you believe confess say a prayer Jesus be Lord of my life and and he'll meet you right
there. Hey man and if you just prayed that prayer for the for the first time your life is forever

(45:43):
eternally changed not just by the there's no magic words it's the position of your heart it's the
position of humility of needing God and saying I need you and he's already done the work it's
acknowledging his his payment that he gave for you that you couldn't never pay and any rose again

(46:06):
to give you new life so you can have a new life and your life has begun today praise the Lord it's
real you're not we're not this is not make believe stuff the Holy Spirit is in your life say
I'll say Jesus thank you for giving me your Holy Spirit and ask you build that Holy Spirit

(46:30):
incredibly strong in my life to help you lead by you and guide by you I'll be I'll be
that I speak of you and I speak for you with you and I know you deeply. Amen. If you have seen
the this podcast just please know that we also have a website standupdood.com and on there you will

(46:54):
find some some excellent growth materials, growth paths. It's at standupdood.com/stand. There's a
five or six just tools in there that are field tested and they work and they're free and they're
actually pretty great. So go there and go to standupdood.com/stand and get your get your get your

(47:15):
growth path on and please let us know if you just prayed with us please let us know you can
you can find us on the socials we monitor those really pretty well and then you could just send us
an old-fashioned email. Dood@standupdood.com and we will we will get back in touch with you. So thank

(47:38):
you for for being here with us and thank you for being here Matt this is one of my favorite
podcasts. I just love the spirit that that moved here and talked about real things and so I
appreciate you very much. Yeah would it be alright if I let the guys know about something?
Yeah I was just about to say yeah can they find you and tell me about your new book?

(48:01):
Yeah I just I love after conversation like this if they want to like dig and deeper to the story
and the book lead me came out a few years ago but it's it's really unpacking really the nitty-gritty.
I mean honestly like my wife Sarah and I really held nothing back. My wife actually said to me if
you're gonna write this book then you got to put it all in there and I was like what do you

(48:25):
mean by oh she's like all the nitty-gritty. Oh no gee. And I'm like and of course I didn't have to but
I knew that that that was God's prompting to be vulnerable. Yeah and so she heard voices in there
a little bit too and we have some questions throughout three sections of the book too for for
having those introspective moments about what that means for us to really be people of action and

(48:50):
change in our relationships and our families as men so lead me is available online but also I've
been put music out with goatee records to be max label so I just started putting new music out
a minute always helps when people get behind it you know and stream it and listen and share it
with their friends. Yeah very very cool. Helps guys like us. Very cool and you're working on a new one

(49:11):
do you have a new one. So right and right now I'm just putting out singles with goatee and I just
put out a new song called Days God gave. Days God. Last Friday and it's all my whole none of the moments man
because they go so fast with the people we love. And a book you're working on a new book. Well
it's some reason I have that in my mind. I'm always working on a new book and I don't know it's

(49:32):
coming out yeah because I am. I just it's gotta be working tight right. I know yeah I know
yeah. I'm working title. I probably have three books. I probably have three book ideas just
accumulating. No not knowing what should be I'm seeing over and do each other. It's a mess.

(49:54):
It's a it's a mess man. And also too like for as an artist you know I'm a solo artist now so all
my stuff such just under my hand at my name. H.A. Yeah H.A. M.M. I.T.T. Yeah two M's two two I have tons of
M's to my name. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

(50:14):
But yeah so it really does help when people just go wherever the listen to music and actually
stream the music check out the song send them to friends and share it. Yeah. You know I'm also
Instagram if people want to follow there so that just that support means the world to guys like us. Yeah
man yeah awesome yeah good job definitely. Well Matt thanks again for being here today and we'd love

(50:35):
to have you back. Yeah. And I'm just speaking to the audience. If you guys found this episode helpful
go ahead like subscribe share leave a comment below if you prayed that prayer let us know below too
that would be awesome and we will see you next time on stand up dude podcast.

(51:02):
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