Overcoming PTSD & Trauma: How Faith Set This Marine Free

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
when a rabbi had disciples that they were to be like him in every way.

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So they would wear what he wore. They would go where he went. They would eat what he eat. They would talk.
They would adjust their language to use the rabbis isms. It was so much so that they're taking on his identity.
Exactly. So that when that rabbi would pass, it was like he never left the room.

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Hey, welcome back to the Stand Up Dude podcast. I am Stewart White and along with our host Tim Bisagno. How you doing?
We are here to help men stand in the truth and be the men God created them to be.
Today we have a guest with us. His name is Robert Mitterando and Robert is the owner of North Arrow coffee company in

(00:45):
Franklin, Tennessee.
In addition to that, he has two degrees in theology and is a Marine Corps veteran where he was a combat veteran.
But there's so much more than that. He is a follower of Christ and he is here with us today to talk to men.
Thank you, Rob.
Yeah, man. It's honor to be here, man.
It's honor to be here, bro.
Yes, sir. First day I met you outside your coffee place there was...

(01:11):
You look like you look right now. You were smiling. You had your shoulders back. You're like, "Let's talk."
You know, I'm like, "I love this. This is the owner guy right here."
And you had two or three other men around you that said, "Oh, yeah, you got to get to know Rob."
And all of those men, I already knew deeply and loved and loved to hang around.
So good recommendation. So it's good to have you here today, sir.

(01:34):
Yeah, it's awesome to be here.
Yes, sir. Well, I just want to... Let's give people a context just as you will undoubtedly just be
speaking truth and let God speak through your story. Would you give them a kind of a fly-over context?
Like a minute ago you said, "I'm not sure if you know ABCD and E."

(01:55):
And some of those things I did not know and certainly our friends here don't yet.
So would you give us a fly-over of Rob's life and what's made you?
Yeah, okay. What's made me... That's a really good question.
Fly-over my life. Well, where do I begin?
Had come from a broken home. Parents were divorced when I was very young.

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I was one of those kids that had ADD diagnosis in the 80s, which really just meant that people
didn't know what to do with me. On top of that, I was bullied, growing up, which is one of the things
I actually think made me. So because I didn't do good academically, even though I was pretty

(02:40):
intelligent, I was actually more afraid of college than I was of going in the military so I joined the
Marine Corps. During my time in the Marine Corps, I was completely submerged in fleshly things.
Heavy metal music was like, I lived for that. Lots of alcohol, women, all I cared about was myself

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promotion and stuff like that. And in that time, I did two combat deployments to Iraq.
First deployment was definitely a rough one. Experience some pretty heavy stuff.
That's all the bad stuff. The good stuff is somewhere in my Marine Corps time, I met a man who
preached the gospel to me. And when he preached the gospel to me, like a light switch went off and

(03:26):
I realized that Jesus was real and that he died for my sins and that everything I thought I was
condemned for was actually taken care of on the cross. And at about 21 years old, I had hope
for the first time. I didn't fall into any real discipleship right away. Actually, I'm pretty sure I
blasted a walk by Pantera on my truck speakers as I left church that day. I've done the same.

(03:51):
But very short time later, I found myself in Iraq as well. And it was good to have some sort of
faith footing to stand on through that experience. So yeah, I think I think of one hand, I've faced
still a good amount of adversity. But I also believe that God is sovereign and all of that. So a lot of

(04:11):
the things that can kind of feel like, oh, what was me? I had it so hard, but I can look back now in my
life now that I've uncovered who God is, which has helped me uncover who I am and still uncovering that.
I could see how he was sovereign and all of it. And that's made for a pretty wild and interesting ride.
So you mentioned before we started, I presume it's okay to just mention this here, but in the, when you

(04:39):
were in the service, you had some PTSD. Okay. And if you want to talk about that a little bit, feel free.
But I'm interested to know, praise God for that guy who shared Jesus with you. I've been kept it simple
and a light switch went off and a light switch had probably nothing to do with with anything other than

(04:59):
God's truth. You recognize it when you heard it and it lit a fire. So when you knew you had PTSD,
somebody told you about Jesus, it was in that order. No. So I just, so you know, I'm an open book
at this point, like whether it's combat trauma or other stuff, I know it's through our testimonies

(05:22):
that well, we overcome the enemy. So I'm not afraid to talk about those things and be I just, I know,
especially in the veteran and PTSD world, like in such a hopeless thing and the more guys, I believe,
can hear my story and how Christ brought me through that. I think we're going to have less veterans
who are signs and more disciples as a result. So everything's fair game here. Okay. Let's go for it.

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What do you think like to Tim's question too, but what is kind of the common misconception with PTSD?
Well, I'm going to speak out of my own experience and it might offend people. I don't care because we
want to hear it. Yeah. I think one of the misconceptions, especially in the veteran community is
that combat trauma is unique and that we can only talk to other veterans and that other people can't

(06:09):
heard that. It's probably true that other people can't relate because it's a different thing,
but where I've landed is trauma is trauma. And when we're following Jesus, anything that rules
over us is an idol. So my message in this space is a message of repentance because when we come under
his Lordship, how can something else control us? Yeah. The scripture says who the sun sets free

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is free indeed. So either that's true or God's a liar. And if God's a liar, then what are we
even doing here? None of this makes sense, right? Right. So it's a hard message to deliver to somebody
who's been a victim of something, but I really do believe that through repentance, through unseeding
trauma from the throne of our heart and allowing Jesus to sit on the throne of our heart that we

(06:54):
experience freedom. And that's that's kind of been it for me. Yeah. Did I did I get that right?
Did I know that's very interesting. That's unique too because I don't know, but it makes sense. I
don't know that I've heard anybody put it quite like that. Usually what I hear is physiologically,
it's just something and you can't really get over it and then maybe it goes away, but maybe it

(07:16):
never does and you just have to live with this forever. Is that kind of the, am I right? Am I on track
with what people tell you? Well, so I so the order of things was I actually went on my first
deployment after that that I don't that moment of becoming aware of salvation. So I, but because I wasn't

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being discipled and I wasn't in the word, I didn't know how to deal with the stuff that I was encountering.
So there's a medical diagnosis that came when I got out of the Marine Corps, but it's kind of one of
those things where it's like automatic. Like you go to you go to combat, you see some really
horrific stuff and it affects you. And for me, I was so there was two things. There was some really

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graphic images that I saw. Praise God, I'd never had to take a life. I'm so thankful for that.
But then there was also being in a leadership position, my best friend ended up dying after I issued
orders. So there was a tremendous amount of guilt and feeling like a total failure.

(08:19):
That's trauma there too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So my the symptoms of that trauma were
abusing alcohol, abusing sexuality, like just pornography addiction, womanizing, all that stuff.
Something to numb it. Yeah, absolutely. Which I was already abusing those things beforehand anyway.

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So it just like it just exasperated it. It just made it, you know, made it worse. Instead of like
buying a case of beer, I was keeping a keg on tap in my house. Yeah, it was it was pretty sick.
A lot of beer. What's that? It's a lot of beer. It's a lot of beer. So when you get out of the
military, you do some assessments and there was a diagnosis of PTSD. And I kind of were like a

(09:04):
badge. I was proud of it for for some time. People would because I was also high functioning. So it
became a point of pride. And people would be like, so what was it like being in Iraq? And I'm like,
yeah, I'm one of those guys that I'm high functioning, but I have PTSD, you know? And
eventually, as I actually started like going to a church where people were pouring into me and

(09:25):
discipling me and I got confronted with the truth, I realized that for this is where my story is
unique. And I don't expect that to be the same for everybody. But God really just like peeled it back.
And as I in my pursuit of Christ and as my life, as he became the object of my affection and the
object of why I live, there's a lot of that stuff, a lot of those symptoms, they just kind of fell

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away. So he dealt with the alcohol. He dealt with, I mean, I've been in a monogamous relationship with
my wife for I'm going to mess up the number of years, 13 years. For me, honey. 14 ish. So like,
so he dealt with so much of it. So where I was actually still proclaiming it, and then one day like

(10:10):
the Holy Spirit just kind of said, somebody asked me about it. And I was like, yeah, you know,
I've got this thing. And the Holy Spirit was like, really? And I was I paused for a second. I was like,
wait a minute. No, like I have been set free. And that was like the last step. Yeah, for me.
So it sounds I know you I want to talk about identity in a moment. I know that's a big a big

(10:31):
thing for you. And you mentioned idolatry a bit. And I think they're they're a wrong identity.
Can be an idol and an idol. So it makes me think that this last piece of your of your healing
when he when he when the Holy Spirit caught you saying this as part of your identity. And he said,

(10:55):
really? And if it feels like that's the that's the the day you changed in your your your idol of
that for your for your identity as as as healed as whole as a Christ follower, not perfect, but yet
not caring that around as your false identity. And I just that's a big deal. That's a really big

(11:21):
deal. Not everybody has the idolatry of of PTSD. Let's say. And if you do, I know that I have some some
for other reasons. But just knowing that the the Holy Spirit was good enough to go really
not he didn't make little he'd I love that I don't feel like he didn't wasn't making little of it.

(11:44):
He just like we called it called it check check hold on really. And anyway calling you forward in
that. Thank you for I love I love that. Yeah. It was very much that simple and it's interesting
because at that time one of the themes of my walking Christ was identity. It's like who am I?

(12:04):
and Christ. So I did come to the realization that it was not compatible with being a disciple.
And for anyone who's hearing this like if you're not there yet, don't give up. But don't reject
what I'm saying just because you're not there yet. Yeah. Right. Like because if I would have heard that

(12:25):
at the wrong time, I probably would have been like, who's this guy? I think you know, like that's
I'm trying to be cautious in how I phrase that because it's for those that are still suffering. That's a
to to I wouldn't want to hear that. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely a hard and I'm always try to be
very cautious not because I'm afraid of so much offending somebody because I think what you want.

(12:48):
You know, it's not going to affect me. But I also don't want to cause someone to be like, well,
then this just isn't for me because there was still a time in my life where I was following Christ
and I was really struggling and I was still, you know, I was still going out to bars and I was
getting drunk and I was self-medicating and you know, he graciously brought me through to the other

(13:10):
side of that. So I will say this too because you know, we were talking about like, you know, the
permanence of it. Yeah. So reopen my VA case a few years ago because there's some physical stuff
that I've been dealing with and trying to get the VA to do right and I had to redo my PTSD evaluation.
And we get to the end of the E-Val and whatever the guy's doctor was. I don't know what kind he's a.

(13:35):
I can never I always get the psychiatrist psychologist mixed up. But he said, I got to re-ask you
some questions and I'm just kind of telling you that if you don't answer these a certain way,
I can't diagnose you at PTSD. Which what he was saying was, I don't want to take away this part
of your benefit. He was giving me a ramp to kind of like make sure I can keep my, you know, my

(13:57):
disability percentage. And I was so convicted. I was like, my answers are honest and true. Nothing,
I can't change any of my answers. And his response, and I was even in that interview, I was like,
he heard this whole story. I believe he was a man of faith too. He received it really well. But
he's like, well, then I can't diagnose you. So medically verified. Medically verified that there is,

(14:23):
that there is freedom now. I will say that that doesn't mean I'm known to things that I've seen
in experience. I actually think that that would be psychotic. So when I'm an open book and I don't mind
sharing stories. But it's still, there's still emotion attached to it. My point is it doesn't rule

(14:47):
over my life anymore. So I have freedom to talk. I have freedom to have this conversation. And I'm
not going to go home and crawl into my closet and weep. Yeah. Right. Well, you set free from it. I mean,
that's a, that's a piece. Yes. But, you know, not PTSD. But I was an alcoholic and recovering
alcoholic. And maybe I should, I was convicted today about two hours for you. God here when I was

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sharing with my friends here that my life and I found myself saying recovering alcoholic. Well,
that kind of still sounds like I'm an alcoholic. And in AA, you know, they teach you, you know, don't
don't forget. And that's a great reminder because if you think you're not, then well, why can I not
drink? So I get it. I get it. I get it. I've been to hundreds of meetings and they've, they've helped

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form my life. And I wouldn't miss a one. I'd do them all over again if I, hopefully I will never need
to, but if I enjoy them. But, um, yeah, there's a, there's a point where you, um, it's not a, um,
blanket that you wear as your, as your identity. Yeah. And at some point you, you take that off and you

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read, like you said, it's not like you're, you're psychotic. I don't, I haven't forgotten that I would,
would drink and drug it every moment. I had no power to say no. Um, but I am, I'm walking in freedom
now for many, many years and true freedom and that. I, he set me free right there one day at a time,

(16:23):
sometimes. And I, I, I imagine do you have every moment where it's one day at a time ever or maybe not?
I, I, so far with, with combat trauma PTSD, at this point, I feel like it's so far removed. Right.
So awesome. Then that's not to say, I don't have struggles. Yeah. And that life is, it's so funny.

(16:45):
Somebody said something. I was, someone was like, so how's business? Yeah. And I, I was like, man,
it's a dumpster fire. And they're like, well, I had no idea. Like, everything on Instagram looks great.
I was like, yeah, it's supposed to look great on Instagram. So there's still real pressures of life
and still things that I struggled through. Um, but, but, but in particular, um, yeah, this is,

(17:10):
I've really walked in very true freedom. Um, I do think when I feel like, so I, I will be careful.
So like, if I were to break out a story about, you know, some of the stuff I experienced,
I allow myself to feel the emotions, but I'm also very, I do intentionally stay very aware of them.

(17:31):
And I mean, all things through prayer. Yeah. Yeah. So anytime I feel myself being overwhelmed by
anything, I want to go straight to the throne room. Um, and there's some, I mean, you probably know this.
They, you know, they've said, I've heard recently that you can't, you can experience gratitude and,
and anxiety, and just at the same time. Yeah. So, so I, I came to a realization about a year ago that

(17:57):
I actually have really deep anxiety. I didn't know it because it was so normal to me, but I'm super
anxious as a business owner, constantly feeling like it's going to fail. And I was waking up,
feeling like there's an elephant sitting on my chest. And I was like, once I was able to identify
that and call it out. Now when those feelings do come up, this is more of my, what I'm wrestling
through today is I'm just like, God, I thank you. I thank you for today. I thank you for the

(18:20):
breath of my lungs. Lord, thank you that you gave me daily bread, Lord. And I literally have not
experienced those two emotions at the same time. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So good. I love that the more we learn
about it, the more it ends up coming into alignment with the truth of the words. Yeah. They're good,
right? Like, yeah, they're Apostle Paul's like, whatever's true, whatever's right, whatever's pure,

(18:41):
whatever's lovely, whatever's of good report, picture thoughts on these things. And you know,
in the God piece will guard your heart, right? Simple advice. It's really, it's like whatever you're
focusing on is what your attention is going to be occupied with. It doesn't mean that it's not real.
I heard, I can't remember who it was saying when we have imaginary arguments, let's say with

(19:05):
something in our heart, your physiology, your emotions can't distinguish a real versus a fake
argument that you're imagining. And the same would be true, events or things like if you were telling a
story, you could begin to bring that back up in your heart and your mind. And that could be something
that kind of triggers this, oh, I'm going back to this path through this way. But if we're rooted

(19:29):
in that identity in Christ, that has such a powerful thing. Like that's something we talk about a
lot on the show, identity in Christ. And most men, most Christian men don't have, I think, much of a
grasp on that concept. Because it's an active thing. It's an active choice. And so hearing you talk
about that is powerful. So I want to dig into that more actually. Like the solution, the identity,

(19:53):
the focus, like, can you speak a little more? And discipleship. Yeah. I wanted to go to discipleship.
Yes. Yeah. Eventually that I think there's a really similar, well, they're intertwined. They're
intertwined. Yeah. So here about that, you know, you got saved. And then you end up going,
you find Jesus and you end up going to seminary just a little note. I think it's very interesting that

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you have all these degrees now where you were terrible. You hated school. Very interesting to me.
So just a seasoning in there. Which way do we go? I know. Let's go with.
Well, I think that is the thing. It's discipleship is the formation in your identity, right?
You're following. Yeah. You're following. Thank you. You're following your teacher. You know,

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you're following Jesus. Very good. I mean, at its core. So some seminary talk. Okay.
You know, if you actually look into what when Jesus referred to his disciples as disciples,
and he said to go and make disciples what that meant, what those words actually meant.
And it's here at the first century rabbinical discipleship meant that when a rabbi had disciples

(21:00):
that they were to be like him in every way. So they would wear what he wore. They would go where he
went. They would eat what he eat. They would talk. They would adjust their language to use the
rabbis isms. It was so much so that they're taking on his identity. Exactly. In essence. Yes.
So that when the rabbi would pass, this is rabbinical discipleship. This is before Jesus'

(21:24):
ministry. This is what the expectations were. So that when that rabbi would pass, it was like he never
left the room. Yeah, that's so that's the expo. So when Jesus comes on the ceiling. Yeah. Thank you.
So when he comes on the scene and starts using discipleship language, that's the context that Jesus
is speaking out of and into. So how much more so in Christ, in the church, much that be true. Yeah.

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The goal is to be completely like Jesus in every way. Now now that's identity. That's identity.
That goes back to the idea of I don't identify as a marine. Yes, I spent time in the Marine Corps,
but that man's dead. He can't be alive anymore because that identity does not fit in with the

(22:07):
person of Christ. Yeah. So we filter that out. I don't mind sharing those experiences because
God's going to get glory through all that stuff, right? Yeah. But my identity. So when people,
I actually just happened two weeks ago. I got a small men's group that we do at the cafe
Friday mornings and 830 for a six-shirt treat. Nice. Cameras are in Kentin and see.

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One of my buddies, we were going around introducing each other. I knew all the guys, not all the guys knew
each other because it was a bunch of random dudes coming to a table. And I said, I'm Rob, I'm a serial
entrepreneur. And my buddy, Daniel, said in so many words, he's like, who does Jesus say you are?
Oh, nice. And I was like, oh, yeah. Jesus, just jumped right back to the church.

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And it caused me to really think about, wait a minute. Yeah, I have a business and I identify with
being a business owner and those things. But ultimately, I've landed on this and I'm trying to really
like hammer out this language and use this more, especially in the last two weeks is I'm a son,
husband, father and brother. So all things that Jesus was. And in that order. So my sonship is first

(23:17):
with the Lord, then I'm a husband to cogo, then I'm a father to Bowen CC, and then I'm a friend.
And those are like the four areas that it's like as I grow into Cypleship, that's how I want to,
that's how I want to grow. And we have practical examples of Jesus' ministry and the Gospels and all
four of those. And there's probably more, but that's it. That's what I'm landing on. That's my identity.

(23:39):
We could stop the show right there. We're short on time today.
Revitical look-alike thing was like, wow. Yeah. Well, you think about it too. And Jesus says,
you know, he's saying in John 14, 15, he's talking about, it's his priestly prayer. He's praying for

(24:04):
everybody. Then he's telling him, hey, I'm going, but it's good that I'm going because I'm going to
send the helper, the Holy Spirit, and he will bring to remembrance all that I've taught you.
But we are to reflect Christ in our lives. And I think that's the thing we miss because what we see
often is the salvation of, you know, get forgiven. Jesus is Savior, but then Lord is the part that

(24:31):
often gets left kind of at the table. We were like, well, but I don't, I still want to do what I want
to do. I don't want to, I don't want anybody telling me how to live my life. And it's like, well,
you don't get to choose, you know, so making Jesus Lord of your life. And that's what it looks like. We
we just had a guest recently and they, she shared with us that in men's lives, they were doing a study

(24:52):
on Christian men. And they're saying the Christian men who actually have a serious relationship with
Christ, like the divorce rate is way less than what you, the typical numbers are reported. The typical
number being 50, 50. Yeah. Yeah. People that don't know Jesus people, the dude, they, they both get forced,
you know, 50. Yeah. But then she, she annihilates that stat with what he's, the father in the home is

(25:16):
another one. But it's not just the presence, although that is important, but a Christian father,
they, she said they could go to church every day. They could be, you know, his prominent figure
in their church. They could have gone to Bible college. All the things. But if there is no warmth
and love and care like Christ, it doesn't matter. But where there is warmth and care like Christ,

(25:40):
it impacts your children. The impact you have on your kids is even greater than the mom on the kids,
which that one, I think blew us up to. Perfect. It's church on record. And he's a jerk. And
yeah, un-present and uncaring at home that the children go with that. It has, means nothing, the,

(26:03):
the five labels that dad wears at church. And, and yeah, she rightfully divided, I like, I told her
she rightfully divided as well, just the difference in the effect of men that walk with Jesus
in their home and at work have an insanely higher state-of-gather record in marriage than the Christian

(26:32):
men. Okay, they love Jesus. They hopefully have all of the gifts that come with that, but they're a
dagum jerk at home and to their wife. And it affects that, of course. And so she divided the men
that genuinely live and walk with Jesus versus the ones that say they do. And these have a lower

(27:01):
check this out. These, this group has a lower, they have a higher, I should say, divorce rate than
the men that don't know Jesus. Yeah. Do you follow me? Yeah. So the ones who aren't actually, they're not
actually walking it out. Yeah. And they say they're divorce rates way higher. Yeah. So the ones that

(27:21):
say they are and aren't acting like it have a higher divorce rate than the men that don't know Jesus
and just gut it out. They have a better, they have longer marriages than the other guy. Is that crazy?
Kind of makes sense. It does, because it makes perfect sense. If you know Jesus, but you're living in
rebellion, that's probably further far gone than someone who's an atheist or hasn't really come into

(27:48):
the faith yet. Yeah. So if you know Jesus and you're just living in rebellion, your life's going to
come on done. Yeah. Reminds me of Jesus speaking to the Pharisees, the religious leaders of the days.
Like you guys will go over land and see to make one convert and make them twice as much sun of hell
as yourselves, because he's like you, there's no, there's no life. Your dead men's bones, you know,

(28:09):
your white wash tombs is like, man, I don't want that to be said of me. I want, I want to actually
be who I am in private and public. I want that to line up with with my life. Yeah. Who you are in
private is your real character? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. So two discipleships then. Like what

(28:30):
we kind of have an idea here, but what was it that kind of got you on that? Like this is what
needs to be happening. This is what you're passionate about. Like to explain that a little bit more.
So what really, the one thing that got me on that path was reading the Bible. Yeah. Awesome.
Another thing that also really got me on that path was being around other disciples.

(28:54):
We started going to this church back back in New York shortly after we got married.
And there was this, there were these people that loved Jesus. And I didn't understand that.
And they would use this language like, and when they pray it, like we'd be praying,

(29:14):
and they'd be like, I love you Jesus. I'm like, where's that come from? I get to love Jesus.
And I kind of just latched on these people because they had fruit in their lives.
And in a sense, I wanted to be like them. I wanted to, I wanted, I had this desire to have
everything that's available in Christ. Because it's like, and I think my reasoning behind that is

(29:36):
this. It's like God of the universe is offering you something. Don't turn it down. Wow.
Like what? Yeah, I want a well-paying job and vacations and a nice truck. I want all those things.
But when the God of the universe takes his precious time and attention and says, here,
what could be a more important gift? So being around these people and coming to the realization

(30:02):
that there was more than just showing up the church, and then couple that with like, I actually cracked
open the word of God and started reading it. And it was, I mean, it just, it went off from their life.
Yeah. That'll do it. Spending time in his word. Yeah. If you do close to nothing else, maybe nothing
else. It's number one. And you do that. Yeah. Get ready to get ready to change. And don't,

(30:26):
don't read it to check a box. Let it soak. You know, if you read to one sentence or one chapter
or the entire book, there's no great given here. There's no extra credits. Just let it soak. Yeah.
God delights in teaching his children. And I remember I was always afraid to question things in

(30:46):
scripture or to ask questions. And I always just kind of read it at face value. And if it challenged me,
I just sucked it up as whatever. And one thing that I started doing is I was reading a chapter a day.
And I, if there was something I didn't understand, if there was something that I was curious about,
or something that like even like kind of frightened me, I just asked God, I wish I had like a list of
these because I would literally just say, can you show me what this means? And I'm telling you

(31:11):
a hundred out of a hundred times, like he's taught. Really? Yeah. And doesn't his word say that he'll
be our teacher. Yes. Right. Yeah. So like, yes, read scripture. Pretty good grade. Yeah. That's,
yeah. That's amazing. Perfect. Perfect. Because he loves teaching is he gave us his word so that we can

(31:34):
know him. Of course, he's going to teach us. Like again, this, then this calls into his character.
Because if he's not going to do that, then then he's not that great of a teacher, right? So,
and yeah, every single time I've just humbled myself and said, Lord, can you just show me what this means?
I'm struggling with this verse right here. Or I'm just really curious, like this one seems kind
of weird and mysterious and out of place. Like, and he's always brought revelation, just do being humble

(31:59):
enough to ask. So coupled with reading scripture is actually just opening your heart to receive it.
Yes. Yes. So I want to talk about two things in the time that we have left. One of them, and I'm
missing the words, do you may remember Darren, when he pastored Darren, giving way so much money and

(32:21):
missions, people would say that is something, something generosity. It's like in ridiculous.
It's in soul. Yeah. Radical radical. Radical. Radical generosity. I know that just because it's the
tube, bro. So North arrow coffee, the first thing I learned after tasting gosh, what's that drink? I

(32:41):
like I wrote it down on your name. It's all good with it. And it's not a marquee auto. It's just
something anyway. So good. I should know, but I don't know. While you're talking, if you see me grab
my phone, I'll look it up and tell you what it is. But my point is other than drinking the best cup
coffee I've ever had. And I love coffee. That's saying a lot was I learned pretty quick about just

(33:06):
you didn't tell me you just my friends were standing around and goes, yeah, he has radical generosity
of the percentage of the proceeds that he gains. He actually gives away like radical. Yeah. Like I'm
thinking dude, that I don't know how you can make it like that. Maybe it's I bet it's very very

(33:29):
difficult. My point, I'm not I don't know really have to hear all about how that worked out. I'm
more interested in what led you. How did you get there to be to be so radically radically generous
with that with your coffee proceeds? I'm going to upset the religious establishment. Okay, let's hear it.
We're not called to tithe. All right. I believe that we are called to be spirit led in our giving.

(33:55):
Actually, one of the things that Paul writes is he shows that generosity is a gift. I wish I had
the exact scripture, but he lifts out some of the gifts and he's like a generosity is a gift. And
if it's your gift and do it well. But I believe that a tithe has limited the church in actually
operating in the generosity that the church is called to. Yeah. So what led me to that conclusion

(34:20):
was first of all Jesus. He gave the purse to the guy who was going to betray him for gold or for
silver. Number one, so he puts very very small value in money. Number two, he gave every single
thing down to his last trouble blood. So in discipleship, we talked about its imitation, right? It's

(34:40):
becoming like Jesus and what did Jesus do? Jesus gave everything. He gave it all. Yeah. He gave it all
before he even came to earth because he, the king of glory in the throne room of heaven
can't add to him. And he says, I'm going to come down there. He stepped out of glory so that he could
suffer and die. He gave all of himself for all of us in exchange. So if you were to say, okay,

(35:08):
Rob, if it's not a tie, then what is it? I'd say it's everything. And it's it could become very
cliché to say, like, yeah, I'm just a steward and I just manage what God's given to me. And yeah,
that's true to a degree, but the reality is it's like it's all meant to be as like every single
bit of it. So we stopped tithing probably about 10 years ago. And we, I would say that what we
really started practicing was spirit, leg giving the same way we'd pray about anything else. We pray

(35:32):
about giving. And when we feel a desire to give, we don't even have to ask God for permission. It's like,
well, here's a need in the church. We're going to meet this need. And sometimes it's radical and it
doesn't make sense. There's been times that we've had we have had no income. And but there was just
enough money. And my wife's like, I think we should give to this. And I'm like, I think we should

(35:52):
give to this too. And I'm like, what do you got? And she's like, this much. And I'm like, I think it
should be this much. And we just send the check and we just trust that God's going to provide for
amazing. Yeah. So what do you, what is the, what do you have an answer? I'm sure it's gracious. But
what's the answer that you give people when they understand the numbers of what comes in and what

(36:14):
you give out. And they hear that as a businessman. And they, they, they, they, yeah, what do you sell
those people? With North Arrow, we wanted to, we want to, we want every side of our business or
every facet of our business to be king-domined. So the reason that we went for 15% is kind of like,

(36:36):
I have this personal thing, data against the tiding language. So like 15% is where it's at. And
and I do believe that we are called to give. I'm not saying that we shouldn't give. I'm saying we
are called to give generously and we're called to give confidently. We're called to give understanding
that our father owns all things. So from a business lens, what we're, one of the things that we're

(36:56):
seeking to do is show what it looks like to be disciple in the marketplace and how you can structure
one idea of how you can show. I don't think people should carbon copy. Because if the Holy
Spirit is not in it, if you're just trying to copy what someone else is doing because it sounds
like a good idea, it's probably not going to work. But that's, that's kind of the heart behind it.
Yeah. Is we want our business to be a beacon of light in the marketplace and what it looks like

(37:22):
to go into the marketplace like fully sold out for Jesus. That said, we're just super transparent.
You know, we, I haven't updated my books in about three months. So it's coming up where I'm about
to update that and start sending out donation checks and all that stuff. And will anyone who's
subscribed to our emails, they'll get our donation update and we keep it right up on our website.

(37:43):
What's the website? North arrow dot coffee. Great. Yeah. Super simple. Yeah.
Dot coffee. It's a man. They got some dots out there now. It's makes it very convenient for
about whatever you're doing. The other thank you for that. And thank you for being so radically
generous. That's one of the things I made sure that I wanted to talk to you about and bring

(38:06):
up because it's one of the things that made me want you to be here. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. Yep.
So the other thing I wanted to talk about, and lastly is your, your heart for discipleship.
Tell me what that means to you and what that looks like and how it can be applied to these men's
hearts and lives that are listening. Yeah. Practical of ways. Yeah. Yeah. Well, the Great Commission

(38:31):
does not say go there for and make converts. Yeah. So Jesus isn't looking for converts. He's looking for
disciples. So we're disciples. So what's that? What are disciples then? Yeah. Tell me. Yeah.
It's it's people who've given their life over to becoming like Jesus in every way. And the totality
of that I think is when people look upon the church, they're supposed to see Jesus. So when people look

(38:56):
on a group of disciples, it's like, oh, I see Jesus there. So how can a man be a cypalt? What does
that look like in his life? What can he do about that? Well, I would start by praying and asking the
Lord to send Spirit-filled men into your life or to reveal to you who the Spirit-filled men are that

(39:19):
are in your life because I also don't believe it could be done outside of community. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. And then when when you know who that is to dedicate yourself to that, to dedicate yourself
to the teaching of others and sometimes it's some of spiritual father, which is great. Sometimes it's
peers and we come to a table and we disciple each other iron sharpens iron. I think with it has to

(39:46):
be humility, a willingness to be wrong, a willingness to agree to disagree. Right.
The tithing thing is I love talking about that because I see how it offends people,
but I will never be like, well, if you don't believe this, then you're wrong. Yeah. You know, I'd say,
well, okay, I shared my heart. I hear your heart. Your conviction is to tith. Well, you,

(40:07):
guess what? That's your conviction. You ought to keep doing it. But my point is to be in community
with other men who have the same goal, to be willing to be taught, to be willing to be corrected,
to be honest and transparent, especially when it comes to the private life. Yeah.
Well, that's a big one. And thank you for that. That and spend time in the in the word.

(40:32):
I think if you spend time in the word privately and with others would be amazing.
Says don't forsake the gathering of believers. That can look just like church or it can look just
like sitting around a table drinking coffee with men speaking truth to you. And don't forsake it. Don't

(40:57):
dismiss it. So very important. And then that's some of that is public and reading of the word as well.
Just doing that daily privately is just so so valuable, so valuable. Stuart, you touched on this

(41:17):
before and you didn't use this exact language. But one other element is you are what you behold.
You're going to become what you look at. And that's biblical to Paul says with unveiled faces,
be holding the glory of God. We are children's formed from one degree of glory to next. Yes.
Glory to glory. Glory to glory. Glory to glory. I think if there was a third pillar with
God community, we've got to word of God. But I also think it's just resting in the presence of God,

(41:38):
which we would say is prayer, the prayer closet secret place, whatever you want to call it. Okay.
But that is a place of I am just going to sit and be with God. I'm going to meditate on him. I'm
going to meditate on this word. Listening. Listening. As he will be holding. Yeah. And again,
I just believe the word of God's true. And it says that we look at Jesus. We become more like him. So

(42:01):
good. So good. Robert, thank you so much for being here today with us. I know we could probably,
we got to do it again. I'm sure that we'll do a follow up. But I already hinted to that while we were
going to get some coffee. Yeah. Let's go. Yeah. I'm definitely here for it. This has been a great time.
So thank you. Thank you for us to pray that you were blessed. I pray that you were blessed. And

(42:27):
that you've heard something that will spur you on to be the man that God created you to be that
starts just really by knowing God. So I just invite you to know him asking to come into your life.
And you can do that in public or in private. But the scripture says if you do that, you know,
let let somebody know. So if you'd like to pray with me now, I'm just I can't pass this up. You can

(42:52):
say, dear Jesus, I come into my life. I give you control. I make you the boss of my life. As it's
you a control my life, my thoughts, my my movements, my my decisions, my direction, Lord, I give you
complete control to do with as you may. I have served you and I honor you. Thank you for dying on

(43:15):
the cross for me. Give you my life now. And Jesus name. Amen. We love you. You just prayed for that.
You prayed that. Let us know, man. Like the scripture says, it's important. So let us let us hear
from you. Stand up, dude, a dot com. You can send us an email to doge@standupdo.com and also go to

(43:40):
standupdo.com/stand and that will give you some some discipleship materials that will help you
not just know Jesus but begin to look more like him. They're really good. And I hope that you take
advantage of those. They're free. And I bless them. I bless you and that they would knit together

(44:01):
the beautiful man that God is creating in you. So praise the Lord. Thank you for for being here with
us and do anything else that I miss it about. I think you got it all but don't forget to like,
subscribe, comment, share, let somebody know and drop us a comment in the comments of the YouTube
episode here. And especially if you prayed that prayer. So yeah, but until next time this has been

(44:28):
the standup dude podcast. We will see you again. Thanks for being here. Thank you Rob. Yeah, man.
Thanks for having me. Yes sir.

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