443: WCW Halloween Havoc '92 Deep Dive

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
What's up everyone out there at internet Land, and welcome
to episode four forty three of the Straight Shooters available
wherever podcasts are found. My name is Von Johnson and
I'm joined as always by my man Man Pots and Pants,
Nick Pocona crossing broad and Fox PHL The Gambler, and
we have yet another fantastic show ahead of us here
on episode four forty three. As you can tell, I'm

(00:35):
still working out the intro for Nick here because it's
got new employment places now, so I've still got to
get used to saying it. But besides that, we have
a deep dive. We are diving deep into Halloween havoc
from nineteen ninety two World Championship Wrestling in the year
nineteen ninety two. What a time it was. We're gonna

(00:55):
talk all about it. And we're recording this the day
after Crown Jewel from Perth, Australia and twenty twenty five
obviously well obviously winning your twenty twenty five but the
twenty twenty five edition of Crown Jewel, so we're gona
do a little quick recap of that show since it
happened so recently. Since as we recorded this here on Sunday,
October twelfth, twenty twenty five. So yeah, we're gonna talk

(01:18):
all about the happenings, a lot of happenings happening down
there in Australia. Shout out to our fans out there
in Australia. But before we get into any of the
wrestling nonsense, I gotta do my weekly check on my
main man pots and pants. Nick, how are you on
this gloomy Sunday afternoon, my good brother, a football Sunday
without the Eagles.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Well, thankfully. The only thing that's giving me solas within
the last few days is the colder temperatures. Feels fair
even though it's gloomy. It's like a beautiful gloom for me,
a beautiful gloom. It's officially fall. Man. We got like
a few days in a row sixties and low seventies,

(01:56):
and I think the high within the next week might
be seventy or you know, lowes seventies. So listen, like,
I'm tired of that weather. I'm tired of the hot.
I'm ready for the cold, cooler air. So that's really
the only thing given me souls within the last no week.
Because we can't we can't stand our Philly sports teams. Yes,

(02:23):
we're on a run of epic proportions.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
And it's pretty rough. It's pretty rough. Speaking of the weather,
was outside playing football yesterday, balling per huge right, and
I was like, man, this is great. It's a great weather.
It's not a raining a little bit there, but it
wasn't even that bad of a rainstorm. It was like,
you know, some a little bit of a shower, but
beyond that it was it was fine, which was good.

(02:47):
But as far as Philly sports, who child it is
rough out here on these Philly streets right now. Obviously,
we're recording this again on the Football Sunday without the
Eagles because they played this past Thursday and a tough
one against the New York Football Giants. Jackson Dart and
Cam Scattaboo was running up and down the field, even

(03:08):
though we don't know if Jackson Dart should have been
back in the game after he got hit.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
I hadn't heard about that. I had I was flipping
here and there. But good portion of the game I
just didn't watch because is wrong and that's fair. They
had a lead and then it was a tie game.
So I didn't watch a lot of Eagles.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Well, we'll talk about the Phillies in the sad ending
to the season, but I will want to mention real
quick that day Bought when I don't know if you
saw this, but Jackson Dark gets hit, he gets hurt,
and then Russell Wilson comes in the game and he
throws a horrible pass like the first play and you
can they cut the day ball on the sideline and
he is cursing the doctor out like what is wrong
with him? Get him back out there? Can He's like

(03:48):
that meme I don't know if you've seen it from
like not another Team movie when it coaches like Canny
play and he's like he's concussed. He cannot go Canny play.
He can't doesn't even know his name, but Kenny play.
Like that reminded me.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Bro.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
Now we don't know what happened. I don't know what happened,
but that's just the visual that I got. It was like, oh,
he's like we wanted to go into the blue tent
number one when Jackson Dart went in and he's like
mad at the doctor, like I need him to save
my job, bro, Like are you serious? He needs to
be back in the game. My baby, my poor baby.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, that was get any for that.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
There's an investigation happening ongoing right now into how that
all went down. I don't know if anything's gonna come
on now.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
He's trying to save his job, but I mean, come on,
I means.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, it's not a great look. And I mean, I
don't know. We don't know what happened to Jackson Dart.
It could have did a fair fine evaluation and he
was fine, but it didn't. The visuals. The optics weren't good.
I'll say that the Dicks weren't great. But the Phillies, yes, man,
can of optics. Another Red October that only lasts about
a week or so. Uh, bloodbath, a red, a red week.

(04:57):
It's ah, it might be the end of an air
for these Phillies.

Speaker 2 (05:02):
It's interesting because I was going I went into the
postseason thinking that objectively, if you look at that series,
a handful of plays decided that and the Dodgers were
obviously on the receiving end of the positive, uh you know,
positive side of those. I don't think the Phillies were

(05:25):
severely outmatched, So I don't necessarily think it's a given that,
like we're definitely gonna see changes to big, big changes,
but I could definitely see you know, what would you
have yet? So Cassianos is a question mark even though
he signed for next year, that's a big question mark.

(05:48):
And Real Muto, Ranger Suarez, and Kyle Schwarmer are free agents.
I definitely think two of those three will come back.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, it's gotta be Range. Word, it's gotta be one
of them. You know.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
It's funny because most people you know going into that
would say Schwarmer and Real mutso because there's no better options.
I'm not sure there's a better option the Rangers.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
The strength of the Phillies is just starting pitching.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, and it hasn't been like that for forever.

Speaker 1 (06:14):
So and you got to keep that strength of strength
and work on you know, you know, obviously you got
the middle of a leaf. I mean you got the rent.
They have the rent in the contract, right, so you
got your closer Alvarado's back, So like, you know, your
pitching staff should be okay. It would not be fun though,
to lose Rangers Wars.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I think, no, I think and you know that could
be you know, is Andrew Painter are gonna come up
and be the Andrew Payer. Everyone wants him. And that's
the thing where it's like, you know, they don't have
any catching prospects. They don't. They're not going to find
a better DH than Kyle Schwarber's. So those are like
the questions.

Speaker 1 (06:52):
Are there better hitting catchers out? Obviously Real Mutu is
a great defensive catch up. Are there better hitting catchers?
I mean no, probably not. Honestly, Real is a greathitter
to it still, at least at his age as a
as a catcher, he's a great catching hitting catcher, asould.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Say, right, And he didn't you know, he had one
of his better offensive years in the past few years
this year, so.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I mean, he did pretty well in that series too,
he did, he did. It's a big hits at Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
You know, I could see maybe a two year deal perhaps,
I don't know if they're get to stretch out, you know,
three or more, but.

Speaker 1 (07:23):
I feel like you got to bring all three of
them back then if you if you dem room moved
to be that important, if you deem Swarbur to be
that important, which I assume they would. He had fifty
six homers this year and Range Swares I think is
the most important of the of the three honestly, just
you know, saying a lot considering sharp Swarbur hit fifty six,
but Swarbur went ice cold and in that posted. Yea.
And the thing about Schwarbur is that he's kind of

(07:46):
at times at times can be a dangerous hitter and
at times he could be a little feast of famine
and it be the little will famine at times. You
don't want to see the famine during the postseason. So
where range of sware is consistently dominant when he's healthy,
and if Nola two is just not what he used
to be, now you're pretty much losing two guys because
I mean, come on, Nola. Yeah, that he's on what

(08:10):
kind of deal he have because I don't I remember
they went to arbitration with him last year something like
that was.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
It signed a contract, so he's here for like I
think there's four or five more years.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
You're right, I remember that they did give him a
new deal last year.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
So his struggles were were really really under the microscript
this year. But listen, he did his job and to play.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
It aff for those three two two. Yeah, it was
a brief period of time, but he did.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
Build all that, but he's definitely not the number two.

Speaker 1 (08:37):
No, I mean you and you gotta hope that Zach
Wheeler returns to what he was, which, given you know
what happened, I sat him down for the back half
of the season. We don't know that.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, that's why I think Ranger could be a bigger
priority to them then most of us think. Because you
know that it's really tough to.

Speaker 1 (08:57):
We don't know Zach Wheeler's going to come back neither,
that's not.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
And if he does, it's not going to be in April.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
Like it's right, you would assume at least we don't know.
I don't know how what this stuff is like, but like,
and you can't there's no guarantees he's the guy he
used to be.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
But I ain't mean to cut you off, no, no,
like and that question mark. And you know next year
was going to be his last year anyway, unless it's
it was either next year or the year after. I
know he said like after the end of his current
deal he's going to retire. Off the top of my head,
I forget if it's just next year or two years. So,
you know, Rangers still a young guy, Like do they

(09:31):
to keep him. Yes, he has had injury issues, but
like not uh really weakness.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
To me, he usually bounces back on his injuries like
he did before. He hasn't lost velocity, He hasn't lost
stuff like he's.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
You do that against the Dodgers. Lineup and listen, they're
starting pitcher all they're all their lefties. Did that? You know,
Like straw was the only one that gave up that
homer to ti Oscar. But you know, Strap's still pretty
get it from the bullpens. So I think they might
want to keep that lefty situation they got going on.
I think it would behoove them to keep that lefty

(10:11):
situation going on.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
I think I taught like Schwarmer and then real Mito,
and then I think if they move Castiatos, it might
get I don't know who would take him.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
Yeah, that would have contract. You have to eat a
lot of it because Bader is your new center fielder. Obviously.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Well they got to resign him too, because he'll be
a free agent.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
He'll be a free agent get big, but he probably
get big money, yeah, which I don't know they can.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Afford him because no one really talked about him before
the trade.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Deadline, so but he was cooking though he was man
he was So do you bring him back? Like the
Phillies they say they'll spend this stupid money whatever it takes. Well,
I mean, look, what changes do you need to make? Then?
Do you like do trade Castianos? Do you? And who
do you bring back? You can't bring back like you
can't the makeup of the team can't be the same

(10:55):
exact makeup, right, but you can't afford to lose, Like
Harrison Bader is a guy who has popping the lineup,
you want to keep him around.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah, from all and you know angles it seems like
he kind of gave him.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
A jolt, right, he really did.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Honestly, Duran it wasn't Durant, it was Harrison Baker.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Right, But Duran is still lights out as a closer,
So it's like somewhat someone but for the most part,
for the most part.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Yeah, I would trust him more than you know, anyone
they currently for sure.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Over Alvarado or Strom for sure. Oh yeah, oh yeah,
so you got Duran as your closer. That's cemented even
though he's not as dominant maybe as he once was,
but he's still really, really, really good and get you.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
I think through a postseason, maybe like a off season,
knowing that you know he's gonna be with the Phillies.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, get more comfortable with the coaching staff and stuff
like that, with Caleb Coffin and the pitching coach and
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Yeah, But I don't know, man, the changes where do
they come from. You're not gonna move Bryce Harper. You're
not gonna move Trey Turner. You're not gonna do you
bring back Kyle Swarp. But that's the big question. But
the thing problem is that the top three guys didn't perform.
And I was like, that's how do you get around that?
Like in baseball, Like in football, you could just cut guys,

(12:10):
and the contracts aren't guaranteed. These contracts are way more
locked in in baseball. You can't. The changes from year
to year unless you're trading people just aren't as prevalent,
especially when you got big money guys. So and you
don't have a ton behind them neither. And like they
got somebody waiting the wings to replace the top of
that order. Uh, you know, you got painter in the
in the in the pitching staff who they're banking on.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
But you know, and again, I know he struggled last year,
but he's coming off Tommy John surgery and usually trend
is pictures coming back their first year are not very good.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
Right and that and that's notice I did not mention
pains performance this past season, because, like you said, he
was coming off Tommy John and he was just happy
to just to finish a season.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Really, the stay healthy, the whole, real the whole. Like
the way people look at it, you know, and is
just get through his season. You know, Yeah, they don't
really look at the numbers.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
And I think.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
They were probably obviously expecting Painter to have a better
season overall. But you know, when when you put the
expectation out there that yeah, he'll be up here in July,
and you know, a lot of us are like, oh, well,
at least we got Painter coming up, and.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Then he's coming off Tommy John. I feel like that
was an unfair expectation. Justin Crawford, I understood maybe people
want Justin Crawford to come, especially before they got batter
and it's just like what are we going to do
with hitting? Like we need somebody to hit. But but yeah,
once they brought Beater and I guess that kept Crawford,
but I think is the right decision. You don't want
to rush somebody these guys, especially if your window is
now to win and you're putting people like Kirkering in

(13:43):
massive spots like you did in the NLCS a couple
of years ago and again in the playoffs this year,
you don't want to put He's young guy, he needs
They put him in high leverage situations, man like. They
put him in tough, tough spots that he's expected to
perform and I can't hold it against too much because
he's still learning. But you can't. I don't think you
can hold it against Kirkering.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
I don't like IM frustrated it as anyone else and
clearly and he even admitted he panics. But that's the thing.
I think that, you know, lowest point of his professional career, right,
so I can't get worse than that, So he's still controllable.
I don't think they're going to move him. I don't
think no.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
I just think they got to put him in better situations.
He just gets put in tough situations for a guy
that young, And then like the n LCS is on
the road that this Dodgers game on the road, it's
like he's he's.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Probably I mean, he got out of it. He just
made a really really position like that would have ended
the inning. And I think obviously people would have been like, all.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Right, yeah, growing up before our eyes, Covania, right before
our eyes, he's maturing. Wowk K yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
But yeah, that's uh, just tough. Like in the moment,
I'm like, you gotta be kidding me. By the way,
when what I I watched these games, I follow it
on the score app during high tense moments because the
TV is so delayed that in real time it's about

(15:14):
a minute, minute and a half behind real time.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
So I follow it on the score app, which is
updated kind of like game you know, game day. It's
pretty much right after the pitch, like you know, what
happens within five or ten seconds, right, So I was
following that. I saw Dodgers to Phillies lungs. How expecting it,

(15:38):
you know, but you know, hoping against hope. So you know,
I keep watching just to see how the Phillies are
going to lose. Heartbroken watching that seeing that you know
there was a comebacker, knowing in real time, oh my god,
he made a bad throw and then seeing it is
so rough, like, but I think in a way it

(16:01):
helped me cope with it.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
That's fair because if.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
I saw that in real time without knowing, I probably
would have not feel. I don't know what I would
have felt.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Honestly, for me, it felt almost inevitable that something bad's
going to happened. The bases were loaded, the Dodgers were
on the hunt. We were running on fumes, I think
as a team just in general.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, like Rizardo coming in for what three names? Yeah,
and did and did great and they have fared the
next game anyway, right, but like the.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Where are the arms? I like, I was thinking about
who's gonna start Game five? If they get to Game five,
I don't even know who would have been in line
for that, like as far as starting, and then who's
gonna pitch? No Alvarado, so who's who's gonna pitch Strom,
Who's gonna how the endings is strong? I'm gonna pitch?
So yeah, they're running on fumes and then yeah, the
worst happens, which I think they said it was the

(16:52):
first postseason walk off air and postseason history in one
hundred and thirty years of baseball.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Like, was it to win a series?

Speaker 1 (17:03):
I think it was just I don't know if it
was to win a series. I think I just saw
first walk off, postseason error, walk off air and postseason,
and that's fair. It was tough, but for me, it
just felt like an inevitability that something's gonna happen. I mean,
it wasn't like that. It was only one guy on base.
He pretty much they loaded up the bases on him.
It's just like there's no room for error. And then

(17:24):
there wasn't air. But yeah, Thursday, tough day, Game five,
Game four of the n L d S L for
the Phillies, Eagles, Giants L for the Eagles, and then
the Flyers played too l for the Flyers, but at
least they played the defending champs. They only lost two
to one.

Speaker 2 (17:39):
They saved the heartbreak for last night.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Oh I didn't even know. I forget they played the
Hurricanes last day.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
They scored it over time, but it was overturned from
a goalie interference. Hurricanes scored and damn, it's not even
like you couldn't go to a shootout and at least
lose air. No, it happened. It was a minute of overtime,
all that stuff happens.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Who was the last Philly team? I guess it would
have been the Phillies. They won on Monday. They didn't
want on Monday. But yeah, I went to for the Flyers.
Not great, not great, but they played.

Speaker 2 (18:08):
You know, so the Panthers and Hurricanes were in the
Eastern Conference finals last year.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Yes, I said, they're like the best two teams in
the East, and they just served the Flyers up to them.
That's kind of wild.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Bro We the Flyers, which what.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Why were they put them against the best two teams?
They're they're just rebuilding, they're still developing as a team.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Man on the road, on the road for those two games.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
And then their home openers against against Boston the Florida Panthers.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
Guys, I got I'll be at that game. By the way,
I'm looking forward to it. So hopefully it's a dub.
Hopefully I get to see a dub in.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Person, defending Stanley Cup champion two times the first three games.

Speaker 1 (18:52):
Two time defending champs in the two out of the
first three games, and then the Eastern Conference runner up
and Sandwich in the middle. Great jobs, Bakers, great job,
great job, great job. Let's give a great job shout
out to John CNN AJ Styles as they've had one
of the best matches in recent memory. From Crown Jewel.

(19:15):
Saturday morning for US Saturday, I guess Saturday night for
people in Australia, but Saturday morning for US on the
East Coast.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Team difference would have been eight o'clock there, I.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Guess, yeah, I think so, But the show started at
eight am Eastern Standard time. I did not watch it
live because I was resting on a Saturday morning because
I'll be tied for one, that's my first day off.
I guess Friday would have been my first day off
in a week because I've worked every day since Game one.
Because Game one was Saturday, and then the Eagles played

(19:47):
Sunday lost to the Broncos. Game TUESDA Monday, Broncos. Yeah,
can't forget this back to back po pole crazy losses?
Right then game then Tuesday was off day. That was
the only day that that still worked, but no games,
and then Wednesday was Game three Philly's win and in
game four's Thursday, and then you just talked about it.

(20:10):
So I was not waking up early to watch the show.
But I did watch it later in the day and
it was a good show, I would say, with one
incredible match between again John cen and AJ Styles, and
I have many thoughts. Number One, this was the fans
service match. This was the match for the siccos if

(20:30):
you will right, all the callbacks that they did to
their past opponents. I thought it was a nice touch
for one, AJ Styles coming out in the t and
a gear with the trunks and I'm like, is that
the same gear from back in the day, Like I
think somebody said, like it was the first It was
the gear he wore on the first Impact episode of
Impact on Spike TV. So crazy that he could still

(20:53):
wear those twenty years later pretty much. I don't know
if he had any alterations done, but I didn't notice
that I could tell. But that's dope to see the
old AJ Styles phenomenal one gear he had, the jacket
onto the hood, it was it was. It was cool
to see John Cena, Man, what a guy, right He
writes AJ Styles intro for the announcer to say, what

(21:16):
a nice touch, what a nice thing to do, and
then they're just doing fan service the whole match, and
the people bought into it. It kind of It's it's
weird to say this is gonna sound wild, but it
felt in some ways I got the same feelings watching
this that in some ways that I did watch in
Hogan and rock Back int WrestleMania seventeen. Not to say
it's on the same level. I know that sounds like
recency bias. I'm not gonna go like this is the

(21:38):
best match ever and all that, but just the way
the fans were along for the ride with both of them,
and sure it was a lot of it was like
paying homage again to everybody they paid homage to. We
got Kakina clutches, we got the accolade from Russev, which
I was kind of surprised. I get to see a
Russev callback the men's I think, got a shout out,

(22:00):
we got a Sean Michael shout out. They did all
kinds of state bray. Why did it the Sister Abigail
and the Fireflies came out in the middle of match.
Oh man, that was incredible, Like that's that was really dope, honestly,
Like that's why I think this, That's why I compared
the two matches, because the fans were just kind of
like a third character in the imagine, not like in

(22:21):
an unproductive way where they just like where they do
every other match, sing the songs and say names. Roman
Roman rains, Roman Roman rains, like we get it his name.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
I had no idea that was that they were doing
that before was it WrestleMania. When I finally realized they
were singing their names, yeah, I was like, what are
they chanting? I have no they did it, Cody Rhodes,
they did to other people. Uh yeah, I just didn't understand.
Uh or I guess I wasn't like very paying much
attention to it. And my TV speakers aren't that great
by the way, so I actually I would rather stream

(22:57):
a lot of the shows and wear earbuds because at
least I can hear better. So maybe my hearing is going.
I have no idea but checked out.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
But uh yeah. This match was a lot of fun
and probably the best match WW has done all year,
just from a crowd participation. Crowd and the action standpoint
wasn't like aj styles and Johnsen was out there bumming
it like not.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
To care about a match that has no stakes, and
they did that.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Yeah, they didn't even have a video package. They just
like go ahead, going out there, do your thing, and
they did it, and obviously it helps when both people
were super over and both people can work. And it
really like as much as I like this match, as
much as I enjoyed watching this match, and how much
of a fun ride it was, and at the end
of it, you were just like, whoa, wow, what a
what a spectacle that was. And they with a tombstone

(23:47):
and then added to the adjustment. Crazy right, Uh And
then he tells I think Michael Cole said, rest in peace.
It's like, what the hell is going on here?

Speaker 3 (23:57):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Much as I for one loved this match too, I
hope that this isn't like the new template for like
retirement tours where people just getting the ring and start
doing other people's moves. I think it's fun when Johnson
and aj Styles does it. I just don't want to
see it more and again in the future because now
we're just doing the same thing.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Again, it wouldn't be as it wouldn't feel as special.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
It's not going to be a special, right. But I
I can see one day, like see him Punk doing
his retirement tour doing a spear for some reason because
he you know, or doing like a Chris Hero move
because he like, you know, he wrestled him in on
the on the INDs or something like that. So I
don't want that, just just do the thing. But in
this particular context I was cool with, especially because A. J.

(24:39):
Styles had to do his too because he's also retiring
within the next year or so. So but one thing
that did, and I don't want to be a negative nance,
but it just also made me realize, like, man, they
wasted so much time messing up Johnson is he'll turn
that It just robbed up for some more moments like
this when we get to see Johnsena be the man

(25:01):
for another like twenty thirty minutes in the ring, just
do what Johnsena does in the ring against a variety
of opponents on the surface or and in theory Johnson
and turning heel. I don't think still was a bad idea,
and the way it started, I thought, what's brilliant. The
execution and everything after that was just terrible obviously, but man,
if we just kept seeing the baby face at the

(25:23):
end of the day and just let him kind of
just do play the hits and you know, maybe obviously
get involved with some interesting storylines along the way. That
could have been fun, and instead we got seen a
changing his whole style outside of like his a tire
never changed tire in his music, but like his n
ring style completely changed when he was a heel to

(25:45):
the point that he I didn't like watching Johnsen as
matches anymore, and then you watch these matches like, damn,
he can still do it. Why do we waste so
much time with this other nonsense.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
It was funny because I know, I remember thinking, are
they doing this because he just simply can't do it
in the ring anymore? So this is kind of their
reasoning for doing so. It's like, Nope, you can still go.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
You could still do it bro at a high high level.
And he's not in there with somebody who's a slout.
He's in there with aj styles who can also still
do it at a high high level. And they killed it. Man,
they really did the thing. And again it was it
was really just like an appreciation of graps, the sickos
like us who know who know the moves that they're

(26:29):
doing and could be like, oh that's who said, Oh
that's Bray White, Oh I know him, Oh I know him.
That's for us, right, that's like I said, fan service.
You give everybody the little thing they can go, oh,
I know that, you know? And again that can you
know after you do it so many times? That could
also jump the shark. But at times it really works

(26:50):
and you can pull from nostalgia, you can pull from
just to being a die hard fan. You can pull
from so many different emotions that people have when they
see this stuff. People get into it. So kudos to
Johnson and aj Styles. They tore the house down at
Crown Jewel and it had no story, no titles, no
jewels on the line, no rings, just real deal graps

(27:12):
man in that ring. This is getting it done at
a high level. Man. I loved it. Yeah, so much fun,
so much fun. Elsewhere on the show, Seth Rollins is
the Men's Crown Jewel Champion, which what does that mean?
But it does. I think it makes a lot of

(27:33):
sense for Seth Rollins to win and to be that
person if they're gonna crown someone, this person because of
what he's doing right now with the vision, he's the
top heel on raw. He has this whole thing. When
he wants to be the leader of the next ten
years of WW he wants to be the visionary of
the company and all that, and the best way to
put him over before War Games is to have him

(27:55):
be Cody Roads and be the Crown Jewel Champion. He's
got to have something to brag about going into War Games.
This is his thing to brag about for a little while.
But the match itself was fine. I thought Rollins and
Cody Rose did a good job. I liked how they
brought the the WrestleMania forty Rolex watch into the back,
into the story, and yeah, I thought it was the
right decision. So nothing too crazy for me about that.

(28:18):
I don't know if you had, if you had any
thoughts on Seth and Cody.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
I like that they, you know, would have a match
like this at Crown Jewel. You know it's not headlining
a major well, I guess it is a major event,
but it's not, you know, a new feud. It's just
kind of like, Okay, we're gonna face each other, let's
remember our history and you go out there. It's not

(28:41):
a new program, you know what I mean. It's not
a new feud for both of them. It's I thought
it was good to get that match, get Rolin's that win,
by the way, which on this run against the guy
that beat him, you know, three times a few years ago.
So I do think I like that aspect of it,
the fact that they're not really going to do anything

(29:03):
after this together, you would think, right, like, I don't.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Doubt, I would assume so, so I do. Unless Cody's
somehow involved in war games, I don't. I don't see
how that happens. But maybe I don't know.

Speaker 2 (29:13):
But I liked that aspect of it because it would
probably tire me out a little bit. It's like like
we we did, we saw this not too long ago,
so like I don't want to go back to it.
You know, you have a roster full of people that
could be put in these spots, so I just don't
want to. I don't like going back to the well.
So many times I thought this was a good way

(29:35):
to do that.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I thought this is this is
well done, good piece of business.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
And I think, you know, Cody's defending his Crown Dual championship,
you know, because he won it last year. So I
like the stories being told through that.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, I would say for the for a Crown Jewel
match that on the surface means doesn't mean a ton.
They did a good job making this mean something and
having like to take advantage of the history between the two.
Can't say the same for the Women's Crown Jewel, which
is in the hands of stephanieva Kerr after she defeated
Tiffany Stratton. This match was merely put together because they

(30:11):
were both the champions and that was it. So the
problem is, unlike seeing in AJ where they have years
of equity and they're just over just in general, we
don't have that quite yet with Stephanie fa Kaer Tiffany Stratton.
We don't have that depth of equity with them two
as we do with scene in AJ. So a story
was needed here, but we just didn't get one because
of the circumstances. Doesn't really present an opportunity for one,

(30:36):
I think. And there's both still pretty new. I mean,
Tiffany Stratton's been around for a little while, but Stephanie
fa Kerre is I mean within a year she's been
with w W, within the year I think, I DoD
of think she's been with ww for four year yet,
so so new. But Stephanie Va Kerr has won the
Crown Jeal championship. And my only thing, my only concern

(30:57):
coming out of this is, for one, when does Tiffany
Stratton lose that title? Number one, number two because it
can't come soon enough in my opinion, not to say
that it's her fault, it's just they haven't done anything
with her since she's won. It haven't to really developed
her anyway since she's wonted, and she hasn't had any
really exciting opponents of feuds either.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
And yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, and that's again ww's problem. That's ww's fault. But
with Stefanie even care, she's got the whole world in
her hands already, and it's like, where did she go
from here?

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Right?

Speaker 1 (31:28):
She just started? Like to me, now, granted, Naomi being
pregnant not being around, I think did throw a little
bit of a wrench into some plans. Maybe maybe some
things had to get obviously, things had to get shuffled
around in her absence. I could have if she was around,
I could see her being a crown jewel and I

(31:49):
think that would have made did it just like a
house done wonders? For South Roland's how it's not really
the wonders, but it's done well for South Roland's it
makes sense. I think it would have made sense for
Naomi as well, but we don't have that opportunity, so
we had to go elsewhere. So for the care though,
it's like, all right, now, what like what we got

(32:10):
to create some type of obstacle, some type of diversity
or something to make this interesting. Otherwise people are going
to get bored. And it's happened before and it will
happen again, and as much as they love her now,
people will turn against her at some point. Maybe maybe
I'm wrong, but it just feels like they got to
come up with something creative for her moving forward, because
we really don't know who she is yet.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
If Tody started getting booed a little bit, you know,
I think it's clear stat if they could, you know,
if they don't.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
It's possible. You know, it's possible, especially if you don't
really give her anything interesting to do. There's some potential,
especially on raw we are rare Ripley, you know, sky
Oscar like, there's a potential that even Becky Lynch, you know,
she's into Continental Champion, but Becky Lynch, maybe la Vakiria,
maybe Bailey at some point. But so there's some options
there that.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Stay fire or James Franklin.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
Oh now yeah, wow, Wow, I got some work to do.
Not this second, I ain't doing it now, but when
I signed on a little bit after.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
This, Wow, that's insane. Now they're three and three.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I'm fired. During the season, I was so Now we
got a sidetrack for the back to sports just telling
saying yesterday like the fact that they lost yesterday again,
third straight loss and they lost a quarterback, which means
they have no hope for this season, not at all.
So I guess they're like, let's just fire you now
to get you back out in the coaching circuit as
soon as you can, because we're gonna fire you anyway.

(33:41):
The writing was on the wall even if Alar was healthy,
if they didn't finish in the top ten this season,
they're probably going to fire James Franklin. Yeah, now here
we are and he's hurt. You're definitely not gonna make
the playoffs. You're definitely not gonna win the Big ten.
And at this rate will they be BO eligible? And

(34:03):
I'm serious. You lose to a winless U C. L
A and who they lost to Northwestern.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Yes, oh, the first time in ten years by the way.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
Oh, oh my god, Northwestern they got Robert Smith at home.
Oh a happy valley. Yeah, oh no, baby, what you're doing? So? Yeah,
it's tough. That's tough, man, Damn.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Was it neruthless against you know, Michigan or State? Oh,
I don't know if that might.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
No, No, they beat Ohio State in like twenty I
remember him beating them in twenty sixteen. Then they beat
him a couple of years ago. To they've beaten Ohio State.
He's definitely beating a house state in the regulars.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Maybe they weren't ranked then at that time.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
Maybe, but I'm pretty sure he's gotten a winner to State.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
He's very very bad.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
Oh yeah, yeah, And that's I mean, that's the ceiling
they've they last steeling. They've run into pretty much year
after year. Man, that's wild. I didn't. I mean, I'm
not surprised, but I am surprised honestly today right not
today the day after the game too. But in the
era of nil, the leash on these coaches in college

(35:12):
is getting shorter and shorter. These teams, these college are
spending too much money in you know, various ways, and
you got to produce and then people who those boosters,
who's putting up that nil money? They want results. Okay,
if I'm gonna pay for this quarterback a million dollars,
damn it better win and it ain't happening right now.

(35:35):
So that's tough. But Stephanie E the Care, Tiffany Stratton,
I'm just concerned that like they did with Page when
Page got first, got called up and she went to
title her first night in and it just I think
that kind of stunned her growth a little bit because
she didn't get a chance to grow on the roster.
She was just already at the top. And I think

(35:55):
that the way they built like bron Breaker, the way
they built Bronson Reid, haven't win the ICY title, haven't
win the US title, do things like that before they
get to the world championship. I think it's a better
way to properly build talent up. To me, if all
things were ideal, which they are not, but if they were,
Stephanie even Care would be the one to beat Becky

(36:16):
Lynch for the IC title. Does that wod that make
any sense? Yeah? Obviously they want to put Lera Vakuria
over potentially, but to me, it'd be Stephanie even care.

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, I would like the fact that these secondary titles exist.
I would love for it to just be like a
legend holding that and then that's how you build the
next big you know, women's stars, you know, right, buil
beat a legend for a mid card title before ultimately
the big prize and then you are literally the one
carrying uh the women's division. You know, I know they're

(36:50):
two world titles, but like you and somebody else will
be like the faces of the women's division doing it
that soon definitely could cause problems down the road, but
hopefully they are aware of that. You would think, like
wrestling history, that's happened before, so you would think, okay,

(37:12):
if once when this starts happening, this is our plan
instead of why are they knowing her? What are we
doing wrong? So you would think you would hope. I mean,
they're already changing creative around on SmackDown. You gotta wonder
if really the right hand knows what the left hand's doing,
and if they really are telling or booking ahead of

(37:32):
time the way it felt, you know, last year, for
really a couple of years, it felt like they were
booking you know, long term, it just doesn't feel that
way anymore.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, I don't know that it's it definitely feels like
they're spinning their wheels in some way creatively in certain aspects. Again,
but again with definitely have a care when it comes
to her. I think again Naomi being out of action
definitely shipped some things around for their plans on Raw

(38:03):
specifically rely on but on SmackDown, there's no excuse what's
going on over there? What's going on SmackDown?

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Rely on your stars then if you don't, I think,
just pushing them into the world title picture. I don't know. Uh,
maybe it works out. Maybe there This is like their
way of all right, we're gonna do this and let's
see if you can handle it. You know, no better
time than now, maybe in their mind, but you know,
we could see it like just not maybe we're at

(38:33):
the start of like that decline a little bit.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
We'll see, we'll see. Uh. They got a lot of
stuff to do though. They got war games. Obviously, you
got to War one after that, then you got oh yeah,
Saturday next main event, which is seen as.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Last match apparently, So yeah, you.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Got a lot to do. Uh, So it's not really
good time to have a law and create creatively. What
we shall see another big happening on this show. Our
Roman Reigns lost a match. He lost, He lost a
Bronson Reid by pinfall. How many people have beaten Roman

(39:15):
Reigns in the last like six years.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I think Cody was the only other in the singles
match to pin him, and then obviously Jay pinned him.
Right money in the bank and a tag match. I
think that was it, right.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
Yeah, that's pretty much it. And Baron Corbin before he
became the big the tribal chief. I think it's the
last person to beat him when he was a big dog.
But yeah, it's only been like two or three times
since the pandemic. Boy, the Dark Days I've smacked down.
We're not at the Dark Days quite yet. We're not

(39:52):
We're not there. We're still a couple of levels above
those dark days for sure.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Now with the change in creative maybe we'll get back there.

Speaker 1 (39:59):
Maybe it's it's just not exciting right now. It's just
not like really popping right now. But those days, the
twenty eighteen twenty nineteen days were just awful television. It's
just awful TV to watch, where this is not quite
as grading on my mental health as those particular television
shows were back in those particular years. But but yeah,

(40:21):
Roman Raine so the big win for the Vision and
Bronson reed. I think Bronson re needed the win, uh
and the Vision needed the win. So I think it
was the right decision. Again it did you know they
protected Roman with all the interference and everything else. It
wasn't like he just got beat. Yeah, they protected them
with the USOS and then Roman Raines goes to the
USO's like, look, man, I don't want to see y'all

(40:42):
no more because y'all everybody, nobody thinks that I can
win on my own. So I don't want to see
y'all till Christmas. You just get right past Thanksgiving, he said,
Christmas all right. But I feel like we're going to
see Roman Raines around Thanksgiving because that's what Survivor series is. So,
but the any f Family Thanksgiving probably lit bro. If

(41:03):
y'all listening, I would love and invite to the any
Thanksgiving feast, Thanksgiving dinner all right, and to Christmas. I
want to celebrate Christmas with the n Y family for show.
All right, So you're listening, I think back to send
me to invite for show.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Survivors series ninety ninety three, and you know, Apha was
eat to Go chicken and both the heads trainers were
like doing a promo backstage they were chickens and whatnot,
like not even swallowing it. They were spinning it.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Out, you know, just apparently just savages, apparently just eat
with their hands, just streading it line everywhere.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Watching that, I just feel like, man, these guys are
wild wild some moments before I even knew though there
was a wild.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
They're wild. There's some owen. They're the wild Samoans. Yeah,
that's a that's wild.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
So it was funny. I forget if it was author
or somebody else. They were like, I mean lait and
choke it all the chicken they were, Oh my god,
they just spin it hour. It was like so funny.
It might have been the years, so it might have
been ninety three when they were part of the team
that faced the Four Dwinks.

Speaker 1 (42:17):
Oh Son, Yeah, I just again, these are not great times,
but it could be worse. We have seen worse in
pro wrestling, especially WWE slash WWF. But we're going to
w CW for our deep Dive Halloween Havoc nineteen ninety two. Nick,

(42:39):
are you ready to go back to ninety two? Let's
do it. Yes, Hell, here we go.

Speaker 2 (43:01):
This doesn't sound evil anymore.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Oh man, that sounds awesome. That's what it sounds like. Explosion.
Oh yeah, Halloween haven't goods on there?

Speaker 2 (43:25):
That's in Trumpet run.

Speaker 4 (43:26):
Up there in Philadelphia and the Civic Center.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yes, Tony, Johnny and the Living Life join a brutal
It's great to be working with great Bruno.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Totally great to be here when you're not tell you're excited.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
I have to be here at the Halloween avacant at
the Halloween has damn right.

Speaker 2 (43:46):
That's where bred Hart got the SummerSlam.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
At the Halloween Havoc.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
So, by the way, we heard that right at the
very end.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
Philadelphia one of the greatest cities in all the Lune
damn street.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
Right, you're damn skippy. Halloween Havoc nineteen ninety two. Spooky season, y'all.
It's spooky out here in these wrestling streets and.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
Twenty Civic Center. By the way, it wasn't near the spectrum.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Well let's let's let's talk about it. This show did
emanate from Philadelphia in Philadelphia. I should say, Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
One of the greatest cities in all the lie.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
You heard Bruno he would never lie to you, even's
and he still said bad exactly And they hate us
for some reason. I still don't get it. I was
out there, man. Side note, I went to school in
near Pittsburgh for college. Yes, and man did they they
there's a one sided rivalry, okay, because they got heat
with us, and they may still do. But back in

(44:41):
those days, and it wasn't even just the Flyers Penguins rivalry.
It was beyond that. And it's just like, y'all, why
y'all hate us so much? What's wrong with y'all? Like
we don't even we don't even think about about y'all
like that. But uh, this show did mnate from Philadelphia
emanated not from the spectrum?

Speaker 3 (44:57):
Uh, Philodelphi one of the greatest cities in all the line.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
You're talking absolutely, absolutely, you can keep doing it. But
it's probably a bunch of you wondering what what what
is the Civic Center You obviously have heard of the
Exfinity Mobile Arena, or used to be known as a
Wells Fargo Center slash Core State Center slash first Union
Center slash walk Covie a center.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Why did it go from a center to an arena?
That's what I don't know.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
No, I just I'm just curious as to what the
Sixer is going to call it on the website, because
you should just call it the center. Now is it
going to be the arena? But you know what I'm
talking about the Center?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Well, they don't have heat with Exfinity, do they?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
I don't know they had heat with Wells Fargo. Apparently
they did not want them on anywhere on the website.
I don't know who the official bank of the Sixers was,
but I know who it was not. It was not
Wells Fargo. Okay, the Center. Everybody, welcome to the Center?
Which one you ask me questions for? You ask too
many questions? But no, not Exfinity Mobile Arena to twenty

(46:00):
three hundred arena, not even the Leakorus Center. We're talking
about the Civic Center, which is basically the lesser known
wrestling landmark in Philadelphia. That's not the twenty three hundred arena,
Like when you really think about it. With that said,
it was the major arena in Philly from its opening
in nineteen thirty one, until the Spectrum opened in nineteen

(46:23):
sixty seven. Of course, the Spectrum was the home of
the Flyers when it first opened, and eventually the six
Ers and every other indoor sporting team's sports team in
the city until the Expinity Mobile Arena opened in nineteen
ninety six. But back in nineteen eighty three, the city
had beginning on planning on moving the Convention Center, which

(46:44):
is again the Civic Center was the city's convention center
as well. And if you're curious as to where this is,
I'll tell you in a second. But they were planning
on moving the Convention Center from its original home, which
is at thirty four hundred Civic Center Boulevard, which is
in West Philly pretty much University City area that it
holds the same name. Yeah, how convenient, right, but yeah

(47:07):
remember yeah, but yeah, that's like West Philly, like I said,
University City area. But they're gonna move it from there,
which is where the show takes place Halloween Havoc thirty
four hundred Civic Center Boulevard in West Philly to twelfth
and Arch in Center City. So that's where it resides today.
By nineteen ninety three, that now Pennsylvania Convention Center was

(47:28):
now open, and the original Philadelphia Civic Center slowly lost
events and by two thousand and five it was demolished.
But what is thirty four hundred Civic Center Boulevard now?
What is it now? It is the Perilman Center of
Advanced Medicine, part of University of Pennsylvania's Hospital Network CHOP,

(47:51):
the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia also known as CHOP. That's
in the area as well, because.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I went there a lot, so there you go familiar
with that area.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Exactly Philly if you For those who don't know, it's
big medical city, big in the ads and meds as
they say, uh so, lots of education, lots of hospitals
and medical in the city, which I mean, who knows
what's gonna happen in the future is regarding that, but
for right now, that's the greatest I mean, And that's
why that's part of why you got a whole how

(48:21):
many colleges universities are in the town right like in
the city proper, you got U penn you got Temple,
you got Drexel, you got uh AM I missing one
that's three LaSalle, you got Saint Joe's right, and then
of course Villanova out in Villanova, even though Drexel just
became part of the Big Five just like a year
or two ago. But Villanova has always been a part
of the Big five, even though they're on the main line,
not in the city. But Drexel they you know, they

(48:43):
were the city six. But now they're finally part of
the actual proper Big five. But you know, but yes,
how many schools in the area, and of course a
lot of hot A lot of the schools have hospitals
as well. U Penn has hospital. Uh, Temple has his
own hospital. I'm trying to think this Villanova. Maybe Villanova
has his own hospital.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Two I think I was the hospital near it. I
don't know if they technically, you know, have a stake
in Internet, but Brentmore hospitals right near it.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
They probably will at some point, who knows. But but yeah,
so yeah, big eds and meds in the city of Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
But one of the greatest cities in all the.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Damn straight Bruno can't agree more. But have you've ever been.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Ahead, when's the last time you heard like someone say
in all the land? Like, I don't remember the last
time I heard that. That's why it was like it
just sticks out so much to me. I love that
I've heard all the land.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
I feel like I've heard that before.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Maybe I've watched it recently, like the last twenty years.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
In all the land and all of the land what
land all like?

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Here are we are? We expanding into the Midwest.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Figuring it out. We're figuring it out in all the land,
all of the land. But yes, the civics in it.
Have I've ever been? I have not. I've never been
to the Civic Center because it was demolished when I
was a teenager, and I never went to an event there.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
What say you, I don't you know. I don't think
i'd have because all the wrestling events I went to
were at the Spectrum, so at least the ones that
I remember. Obviously WCW and I think WWF Mighty used
the Civic Center for house shows here and there, if
not the Spectrum. But yeah, I can't say that I

(50:32):
definitely was there. God, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I know I wasn't for sure. But before the new
Convention Center opened in ninety three, the Civic Center was
still getting some major events because obviously, like I said,
the Spectrum in the Civic Center were around together as
like the two major indoor venues for like fifteen years,
maybe more than that, honestly, not doing math well right
the top of my head, but the Philadelphia Warriors and

(50:59):
the Philadelphia seventy six Ers both played at the Civic
Center during their time there. It hosted major concerts like
the Jackson Five, the Beatles, the Grateful Dead. Even Martin
Luther King Junior himself spoke there at one time, and
of course Jim Crockett Promotions, which eventually became World Championship
Wrestling ran thea Civic Center. While WWF would run the

(51:21):
Spectrum with Haul Cogan, JCP WSW would pack out the
Civic Center with Rick Flair, and business was booming a
good time back in those days. But by nineteen ninety
two that was not the case for what was known
now as WCW World Championship Wrestling. We didn't know it
at the time, but we are near the end of

(51:44):
the Bill Watts era of WSW, which was not a
great one by any stretch of the imagination, as you
can see on this show. But it came to an
abrupt end in early nineteen ninety three. But more on
that in a little bit. Watts. Bill Watts. We know
Bill Watts. He was a second bad management choice in

(52:05):
a row for WCW. Unfortunately, they made some rough regime decisions.
The first was Jim Heard. Have you heard about Jim Heard?
He was terrible in WSW. He pretty much attempted to
make WSW into a somehow more cartoony knockoff of WWF
and it didn't work, obviously because remember the ding dongs. Okay,

(52:33):
that was terrible. But when that regime crashed and burned,
WSW pretty much overcorrected. It was like, we're going to
bring in somebody with a proven track record who can
get all the nonsense out of here and making a
serious product again. So let's go get Bill Watts, who,
by all accounts, I mean, for the record, let's be fair,
he had a lot of success running the mid South

(52:54):
territory in nineteen seventies and eighties. However, he didn't necessarily
adapt with the time, okay, because he put in guard
the safeguards I guess or rules for lack of a
better term, that essentially discouraged like high risks moves. He
removed the match from ringside. He made you get disqualified
for getting for tossing someone over the top rope still

(53:15):
and it's like, come on, bro, just the early nineties,
and I guess he was just making ws W grade again.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
The funny part about that is if it happened and
the ref like wasn't sure if it was supposed to happen,
like he would turn away and act like he didn't
see it. Over the top rope stuff like just too matches,
like when when you're wrestling, like it's not a rule
anywhere else. I feel like no ever heard that anywhere.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
It was only in like Nwa yea nwa. Yeah, but yeah,
it just like it went away because people got past
that and then they brought it back and it's like,
come on, we're done with this. But despite kicking at
old school, business was still bad. Okay. Then in early
nineteen ninety three, he doesn't with Wade Keller of the

(54:02):
Pro Wrestling Torch, where he supported a business owner's rights
to discriminate and refuse service to certain people like you know,
a bigot. Then, thanks to David big Suspan he was
writing for a dead Spin, I was able to find
this interview and find some excerpts from the interview, and

(54:27):
they were not great. Let's say racist and hoberphobic would
be two words you could use to describe what Bill
Watt said. Okay, then the interview gets published and is
noticed by Mark Madden, of all people, future wsw announcer.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
Mark Madden, he's a inser too.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yes, but another Pittsburgh guy now, the Pennsylvanian, right, he.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Hold the same belief says Bruno San Martino.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Apparently, No, he hates Philadelphia because because if you're from
bit Burg, who just predisposed to hate Philadelphia? Even though
everybody who I know from Pittsburgh who've been out here
loves the city. But you know that's not that's neither
here nor there. But he was appalled by what he
read in the PW torch and faxed it to the

(55:16):
one person he knew would also share the feelings with him,
Hank Aaron. Yeah, that Hank Aaron, all time Home Run King,
Hank aaront least at the time he's former Now Barry
Bonds owns that record now. But Hank Aaron, who's also
a civil rights activist and an executive with TBS at

(55:42):
the time, not to mention he broke said home run
record while playing for what team? Which is owned by who?
Who also owns what?

Speaker 2 (56:01):
The Braves at that point he did he did?

Speaker 1 (56:04):
I think I'm pretty sure he'd owned them in ninety two.
Either way, Good Lord mark Man went straight to the
top and he's like, hey, Hank, you see this? Did
you did you know that he said this about black people?
You employ him, right, y'all work for the same company.
Did you know that? Hank Aaron was not happy? Needless

(56:25):
to say, uh? And then eventually Bill Watts wrote a
letter apologizing to Hank Aaron and to all the black
people I guess, uh, and every single every single one
of them, even me. I was only like four at
the time, but I was like, okay, you're You're not forgiven,
mister Watts. And he eventually wrote his resignation, but he

(56:46):
also did an interview with this apology with a newsletter
called The Wrestling Flyer. The Wrestling Flyer newsletter.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Do you know not run by Dave Meltzer?

Speaker 1 (56:58):
No, No, No, different newsletter, different news letter. But do
you know who did create and run that newsletter?

Speaker 2 (57:05):
I'm about to find out.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
No, don't look it up.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
No, don't look it up. I don't have a good guess.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
It's our boy Airport Johnny himself, John Clark.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Wow. I knew he had a wrestling background, but wow.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
I did as well. And it's crazy because I've seen
John Clark numerous times covering events and whatnot. The man
is everywhere, by the way, He's just everywhere in Philadelphia sports,
but I've never actually talked him about wrestling. And it's like, damn,
I keep forgetting that he did this newsletter back in
the day. But yes, for one of those who don't know,

(57:42):
if you're not in Philly, John Clark is a if
you're not in there, you go exactly if you don't know,
he is John Clark. He is a fixture on television
here in the areas for NBC, NBC Sports, Philadelphia, NBC ten,
whatever you want to call it. Uh, He's at every
sporting event known to Philadelphians pretty much. So, no matter

(58:05):
where the team is, no matter where they can be
playing on Mars, John Clark is going to be there
with a microphone and a camera, all right, and and and.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
Doing his joh waiting for.

Speaker 1 (58:16):
All right, He'll be he'll beat them there, all right.
He'll meet them at the space station all right, call
him space stations, space station Johnny, all right, he will
beat them there, all right.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
I don't know if he ever sleeps, because he's always
again at the airport whenever a new player arrives. That's
why they call him Airport Johnny because he's always there
when when a new player arrives, and they can be
like crack of dawn and then first person they see
with a camera, a microphone and a bright light, and
it always had that bright light. It's John Clark getting
the questions in first thing, all right, So shout out

(58:50):
to John Clark. He works his butt off and very
tall man to some people, like see the six or
five dude coming up with his microphone asking them questions
like who are you sir? But man, he's on it.
He's on the stuff, and he's on the wrestling stuff,
getting interviews with Bill Watts.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
I don't know, bro, but that's what happened, is he's everywhere,
including interviewing Bill Watson in the early nineteen ninety Somehow,
even though this show has nothing to do with John Clark,
he's there somehow. I saw him at the F one
VIP party. It's like what you're doing here. You do
have one coverage too, John Clark. Damn we do everything.

(59:28):
Shout out to John Clark.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Man.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
He works, He works really hard. Watches though, watch his
views on the world felt odd considering that he did
a lot of extensive He had an extensive track record
of booking black wrestlers, like that's pretty much his m
o own wrestling when it comes to wrestling, right when

(59:51):
it comes to world. When it comes to the world
of wrestling, and you hear about Bill Watts, the one
thing he talk about is how he always had a
top black wrestle. He featured black wrestlers at the top
of his cards consistently, and if one left, he tried
to replace them with another to varying results, obviously, but
he worked extensively with Big kat Ernie Ladd. He made

(01:00:11):
junk Junkyard Dog a sensation in mid South. He was
in sensation. He was the biggest thing going in the
Louisiana territory for many years, Junkyard Dog, and that was
because Bill Wats put him in that position. And then
he made Ron Simmons the wrestling industry's first recognized black
World heavyweight champion only two months prior to this event,

(01:00:33):
and he didn't even book him in the main event
of the show. Ain't that something? But yeah, it's really
odd that distinction goes to Sting and Jake the Snake
Roberts and the match that will be decided by the wheels.
Spin the wheel, make the deal. Oh yes, and the

(01:00:56):
options are incredible, they're twelve of them. What's on the wheel? Well,
we got a Texas bull rope, we got Spinner's Choice,
we got a Russian chain match, not just a chain,
a Russian chain, a dog collar, an I quit match,
a barbed wire match, a cage match, lumberjacks with belts match,

(01:01:23):
not lumberjacks, lumberjacks with belts. Oh and in Prints of
Darkness match, know what that is? We didn't find out
Texas death match, coal Miner's Glove match, or first Blood match.
Oh man, they're all on the wheel and spinning the wheel,

(01:01:43):
make the deal and that will be our main event.
But it's also an NWA World title match in this
show as well. Why why would to be an NWAS
title match and a WSW title match on the same show. Well,
because Rick Flair took the Big Gold Belt with him.
The WWF back in the day when Jim Hurd pissed
him off. So WSW eventually got the belt back, but

(01:02:07):
in the meantime they commissioned a new belt called the
WSW World Title, but the big goal was technically the
NWA Championship. So they got a new belt, crowned a
new champion. But then they got the NWA title back
and they crowned a new champion. Again they're still with
the NWA, so they was like, well, we're not getting

(01:02:28):
rid of our belt. We created this belt, we're not
gonna get rid of it now. So they got two
world champions for some reason. But yeah, this WSW is
in a weird time because they're still part of the NWA,
even though they're not the WSW. That would be that
would that would not be the case by next year, though,
WSW said, enough with this nonsense. We just do our

(01:02:49):
own thing, and who cares about the NWA. Honestly, as
sad as that sounds, I'm sure to a generation of
wrestling fans, but there's a whole other generation just like
who right, nw A that's a that's a rap group, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
It's funny when the WWF tried bringing it back in
ninety eight with like Jeff Sharrett like that group, and
I was just like, no, man, that's that's WCW. Like
I couldn't even buy into it. I couldn't even suspend
my disc belief for that. I was like, no, no, no,
I knew WCW is part of n w A. This
is not like the w A.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Yeah, it's it's just it's just weird. It's just weird.
But this is also weird, but it is what it is.
But we also have Rick rud who is the champion
of the nw A. He's also the United States champion,
which gives him two title defenses on the show. Sort
of sort of we'll talk about it. But as you

(01:03:48):
heard that intro, cheesy, silly, and I love it, staying
howling in the beginning, incredible, the faces of the wrestlers
going around the digital haunted house like the ghosts. It
was incredible. Hello, cheesy, right, It's like something out of
a Saturday Morning cartoon or something like that. But it

(01:04:09):
was tremendous. But yes, we got Tony Shavanni and Bruno
sam Martino on the call and w c W. Yeah,
apparently he made sporadic appearances for w CW in the
late eighties and early nineties didn't know that, but they
were merely hosts as Jr. And Jesse Ventur did the commentary,

(01:04:30):
actual ringside commentary on the show. Jesson Ventura, by the way,
who had Missy Hyatt's vote for president? That that's interesting.
Jesse Ventur, by the way, at least among the four
announcers in the arena, so Tony, Bruno, Jim and Jesse,
he was the only one wearing a costume. He had
a little cape on because it's Halloween. Everybody else is
all tight in these tuxedos looking silly. It's Halloween, havoc.

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
Come on, man, where's the themes?

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Come on right, where's the fun? We're costume? Jim Ross
like four months later it's gonna be in a toga
at WrestleMania. But he couldn't wear costume on this night,
like in April, in March or whatever it was. With
his feet out and everything with the sandals, He's like,

(01:05:16):
Vince is paying me to wear this toguas I'm gonna
wearing toga. Bill Fox is not paying me to wear
that toga. No more, don't wear anything. And they weren't
paying me enough. But let's get to the format, all right.
We got Match of the night, worst match of the night,
top non wrestling happening, worst non wrestling happening, Hidden Gym's

(01:05:36):
best spot, worst spot, my dog spot, and of course
and of course random thoughts.

Speaker 2 (01:05:44):
So Nick, I was you always do that, but it
always tickles my fancy now because I just I don't
expect it, you know, when you're going through it, and
then I hear it and I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
Like, my spot, Nick, what is your match of the
night from Halloween Havoc nineteen ninety two? Because I know
for me, it wasn't an easy decision.

Speaker 2 (01:06:07):
I agree. I thought it would have been after one
certain match, really after one entrance, because you're like, oh,
this will definitely be the match of the night. But
I'm actually going to go with a match that I
thought started off kind of boring for me. But when
when I you know, stepped back a little bit and
it was actually objective about it, I like it because

(01:06:31):
I thought it was the best wrestling match of the night.
And that's the tag title match. Barry Wyndham and Dustin Rhodes,
the Williams Brothers, Steve Williams and Steve Williams, right, oh wait.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
No, no, Steve Williams and Steve Austin.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
Steve, which, by the way, I don't remember the background
of it, but uh Dodor Death picked Steve Austin to
be his tactic partner for the night. They're not. I
think that was the only time they teamed up as well,
based on what I could find, so I didn't know
what to expect. Really, Dustin and Barry were having issues
of their own that didn't really creep up during this match.

(01:07:13):
You know, it went what thirty some minutes close to
the time limit drawl. I liked the ending. As chaotic
as it was, it just kind of like made sense.
Like at first I was like, wait, what's going on?
And then i've once they explained, oh you pinned the
wrong man, not the legal man. I was like, oh,
this makes sense. This is what I look for and

(01:07:35):
wrestling this is like not insulting my intelligence type thing.
And obviously you have a great tag team match on
top of that, which you know, you gotta give them
their props. I thought that was the best match of
the night.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
Yeah, I had to listed here. I had this one,
but I also had Ricky Steamboat and Brian Pillman.

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
It was my honorable mention.

Speaker 1 (01:07:58):
As the other one, so I kind of I agree
with you. I kind of listed Steamboat Pillman first. This
is an honorable mention, but I can go either way honestly,
because one of these could easily be a hitting gym too,
you know. And here's a problem I wrote this in
my notes a little bit is that WSW around this
time the matches were slow and plotting and even maybe
even boring, which which is not the case only like

(01:08:23):
a year or so later, when we did what showed
do we do last week Fall Broad ninety four, Well,
I thought the matches were better paced, more exciting obviously,
Also the arenas were more lit. They looked like a
professional promotion where everything is so dark here and just
dank looking at times about that later on, Yeah, as
you should, because it's it's just night and day. How

(01:08:44):
ws W ninety four, ninety five and ninety six look
compared to ninety two ninety three. But WWF wasn't incredible,
but you could see like the beginnings of like a
new style kind of seeping through with like Brett Hart,
Shawn Michaels missed the perfect bulldog and they were kind
of going to lead the next kind of generation of
talent in the ring, but ws W hadn't quite caught

(01:09:05):
up yet outside of like Pillman and maybe Steamboat and
not yet again, by ninety four they'd have some more
talent on the roster, but at this time, it's just
like it's just slow and boring, and it made it
a really tough call to say, like what was the
best match? A lot of them just kind of blended
in together, like no real exciting moments sort of, so

(01:09:27):
it's kind of tough for me on this show. But yeah,
I agree with you that at least those two matches
were the best ones on the show. Like, if you
want to go watch a match on this show, it
either be the tag title match or the Steamboat versus Pilman,
which is like the special attraction match that they just
had a special challenge match. I think they called it
or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
But I liked when they would do that too. It's
like I'd rather be told that, you know, it's a
special challenge and just a matchup random match that didn't
mean anything, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
I mean, we also had Johnson and aj Styles though, so.

Speaker 2 (01:09:59):
Well, you know, twenty thirty three years later, so I
get it now, but you know, back then, I would have.

Speaker 1 (01:10:05):
Been like a line, right right, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:10:11):
I do like touring this match Jesse vent Tour and City,
waiting that Barrie Wyndham is bribing doctors to allow him
to wear they take on his wrists because apparently that,
you know, helps on near punching someone. But I did
think that was funny. It's like, come on, Jim, you know,
you know as well as anyone that slip the doctor

(01:10:35):
a few dollars, you get to do what you want
pretty much. You can get whatever you want. And Jim's like,
I don't know anything about that. By the way, this
is after Wrestlmingia eight, after like you know, I guess, well,
I shouldn't say after the Steroid Trial was a ninety four,
but I'm saying, like I guess it was an open

(01:10:56):
secret that yeah was going on. Why Haul Coogan was
not on WWF programming at the time, so I'm sure
throughout that year Jesse was taking shots like that. I mean,
I haven't seen everything from ninety two WCW, but that
kind of stood out a little bit during the tag match,
So I enjoyed that and Jim Ross, you know, a

(01:11:17):
lot of time with this match, so you get the
backstory on everyone. So I did like that, you know,
like when we go back and watch something from this era,
I don't remember every single thing, you know, I didn't
watch WW back then, so I just watch anything i've watched.
I try to remember through the years, but I don't
remember everything about w W ninety two. So it was

(01:11:38):
cool to get like I totally forgot Dustin Rhodes and
Barry Wyndham had issues and you know the backstory of that,
and how oh they didn't even touch that really during
this match. You know, they didn't have issues during this match.
They wound up winning, which is like funny enough where
you think, Okay, I guess their issues are going to

(01:11:58):
cost to the match because I didn't look the results or anything,
Like I don't remember watching this show maybe a few
years ago, and I didn't even watch the whole show,
but I watched it at some point, like bits and
pieces of it, you know, in the past. So just
like a really good wrestling match, I think, I don't
think every wrestling match needs to be quick and you

(01:12:19):
know that stuff. I for some reason, I like the
slow and plotting matches if things make sense. During the
course of the match, I thought this wasn't even like
that slow, but it kind of built like tag matches
are usually like building to something, and I thought this
match did a really, really good job, especially at the
end where I was like, oh, the Heels won. And

(01:12:40):
at first I was like confused to why Randy answer.
I was like no, no, no, like really start the
match and I'm like what, and then you know, they say, oh,
he wasn't the legal man. I was like, oh, thank you,
Like that's what I wanted in my wrestling, like not
being treated like an idiot. And so I thought they
did that all that stuff very well. I thought it
was you know, kind of just stood out to me.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
Yeah, you know, it was a good match. It wasn't
like it won't knock your socks off.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
But not match of the year.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
But no, not not match of the year ninety two.
For sure. There's much a better matches than ninety two,
like you know, the Summer Slam match Brad Hart and
British Bulldog or the War Rumble. Hello an incredible match,
so but let's move on like that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:24):
During the Steamboat Pilman match, when he like played possum
and whatever, and like just just to go just for
Steamboat to use an arm drag, like he played Possum
just to do an arm drag on Pilman. Like that's
I love that for Mickey Steambo. It's like he's using
this stuff in a match that you know, like if
he played possum, it's usually towards the end of the match, right, No,

(01:13:45):
he did it like right in the middle of the match,
just to do an arm drag.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
Like.

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
I just appreciate that type of detail.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Yeah, it was again good match. It was again to me,
it's just not terribly memorable. That's the only problem with
a lot of these matches on the show. Yeah, including well,
I guess the next one would be worst match of
the night. What did you have here for worst match
of the.

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
N This was memorable? Uh? The NWA World title match
shown oversus Rick Rude man rudal.

Speaker 1 (01:14:16):
Man. I'm trying to think I had a different match here.
But what was so brutal about this one? For you?

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
The rest holds like some something happened in the in
the crowd that everybody else is paid attention to. While
Rick Rude has a headlock on massa hero shrown O.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Yeah, I don't know what Philly fans were like looking at.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
But maybe they were beating up a Penguins fan or something.

Speaker 1 (01:14:38):
Maybe a Cowboys fan. It is nineteen ninety two, right.

Speaker 2 (01:14:42):
Just the the two refs.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
You know, yeah that we'll conmoluted just.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Way to Rick Rude getting a win via DQ just
because being thrown over the top road. But like that
doesn't further any story. Like apparently these guys didn't have
a rematch, so what what's the use of it? Like
the match literally meant nothing, and to take away US
title defense for Rick Rude for this match was like

(01:15:10):
I think a total waste because nothing happened with it,
Like it just made Rude look bad. I didn't know
much about show at this time period, so apparently like
he was sheered at in the beginning but then booed
at the end, you know, like this Philly crowd, man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Like this Philly crowd was something else. They were on
some people's next when it comes to like the reception
for certain people, especially z Man did guy and did
not mess with Tom z Inc.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
That's a shame. That's a shame. But yeah, there wasn't
even like a rematch at Starcade for these two, Like,
so for who for what? Damn, that's what I feel
for who for what?

Speaker 1 (01:15:50):
That's how I feel about the main event of the show,
which is my worst pick, the worst match, worst match
of the show. So let's first talk about the wheel,
because that's the plays a part in this which this
is also my worst non wrestling happenings. When he actually
spin the wheel to make the deal, which the wheel
like something out of a Halloween night amusement park type deal,

(01:16:13):
Like it's just like a display or something like that,
and it's got like pyro and everything. They had more
pyro than Rick Rude, I feel like. And then they
got Sting to spin the wheel, not Jake but Sting right,
and Sting is like walking up to it. They got
all this ominous music and it's got all these props
around it and it looks spooky and he's like almost
afraid of it. It's like, oh my god, this is
this is terrifying wheel that that can't hurt me, but

(01:16:35):
I gotta spin it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
It's got sharp, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
Got sharp edges. And then like a random stage hand
comes out and like makes adjustments before he spins it,
and it's like where did you come from? Get out
of the shot, like like, don't do this now, bro,
it's too late. We're live, pal get out of the shot.
Right in the middle of the shot, he's making adjustments.
Gets supposed to be the spooky thing, and here you come.

(01:17:02):
That's worse. Like I said, that's pretty much like Halloween
spooky Night at the amusement park, the fright Night, which
is always a good time. But you're not expecting like
you're not expecting low budgets, you're not expecting high budgets. There,
I should say, you're not expecting Hollywood level budgets. You're
expecting amusement park level stuff where you might see a
state hand here and there, and that's okay, it's all

(01:17:22):
part of it. But here in ws W it's just terrible.
And then Sting pulls the lever to get it going,
and sparks start flying.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
He pulls the lever, but this wheel doesn't start spinning
for like a second or.

Speaker 1 (01:17:33):
Two, right, because it just like maybe. Then it's like
it spins forever. It spends for like ten minutes, just
spin and spin and.

Speaker 2 (01:17:41):
Spin, like it's slowing down. It's literally not slow.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
No, it's not. And then it just suddenly landed, just stopped.

Speaker 3 (01:17:48):
Whoop.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
No, like I guess you call it inertia to it
and it kind of slows down and then comes to
a slow stop. It was like coal mine is glove.
It was almost like they wanted it to happen that
way or something like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
They had to have like it marks in the back
of the wheel.

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
Right, something they had something, bro because I've seen plenty
of wheels spin all right, even gonna fool me, Like
I've never seen a wheel before. I've watched Wheel of Fortune,
I watched Prices, right, I know how wheels spin.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
I'm a wheel veteran dude, Like I do.

Speaker 1 (01:18:21):
This wheel stuff. I don't have a car, but I
know wheels, right, you know the physics of wheels, and
you know, if they just had a high rate of speed,
it's not gonna go the bing stop on a dime.
It's got to slow down first, and then it slow
creeps and it might creep to the next option before
it stops on that one. I'm like, boom, and then
the next thing, Oh my god, that's like that's what

(01:18:43):
the wheel is. Okay, wheels do And instead he like
you said, pulls the lever, there's a delayed reaction and
it spins at a high rate of speed and it
just stops at coal miners glove. So if it wasn't
the work, they didn't do a good job of making
it not look like a work, I will say that.
So that was my worst That was first option for

(01:19:06):
it's non wrestling happening. I got another honorable mention for
that later, but worst match of the night. So because
of that spinning the wheel make the deal nonsense, we
get a coal miner's glove match. So what is that
you're asking? Right, it's coal miner's glove on a pole.
That's what it really is. They don't say that, but
that's what it is. Okay, So a coal miner's glove.

(01:19:27):
Apparently it's a potentially dangerous weapon. I guess it's heavy
glove with steal on the inside, because if you're working
in coal mines, you probably work in some heavy equipment, right. Also,
your lungs are probably black. So I hope everything works
out for you if you are working in the coal industry,
because it ain't safe down there. But the glove, I
guess itself. I've never tried on a coal miner's glove,

(01:19:48):
but apparently they're steal on the inside. So they hang
the glove on a pole like ten feet above the ring,
and you don't I don't know how high it was.
It was some it was pretty high, some distance above
the ring. And the point of the match is to
grab the glove and to do damage with it. You know,

(01:20:08):
it's not you're not racing to the glove to like win.
You're raising to the glove to get your hand in
it so you can punch them in the face with
the steel that's inside the glove. Right, So that's what
a coal miners glove is. They have done this in
other territories. I think they did in the midst South,
which is why, probably why they brought it back here
because again Bill Wats is in charge. So coal min's glove,
it worked, worked with Ted Dibiassi back in the day,

(01:20:30):
so damn it, we're gonna do it again, all right,
So it always works. People love coal miness gloves, even
in Philadelphia, but there are no coal miners, there are
no coal mines, there are no coal miners in the city,
but coal mina's glove. Even the Philly the people get
it and they didn't get it, and this match was
terrible and matches pretty basic. Cactus Jack comes out and

(01:20:50):
gives Jake Roberts his snake while Sting is climbing to
grab the glove. When Sting grabs the glove, he hits
Jake Roberts, but he was also simultaneously being bitten in
the face by his own snake. Roberts. Jake Roberts somehow
job to the to Sting and the snake. It was

(01:21:12):
really bad. It was he like turned and like got
hit and then the snake bit him and he just
fell back like, oh, like killed back.

Speaker 2 (01:21:20):
Did the snake?

Speaker 1 (01:21:22):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:23):
He was trying to get it to bite him and
it just wasn't.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
It just wasn't working. It just looks so bad, like
I don't know if it actually bit him or not.

Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Could not be the same snake as the one that
bit Randy Sash.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
No, that nig was ready to bite it. That Nick
didn't need that much provoking this, Nay.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
I don't want to bite you, trying to get him
to bite.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
It, and Jake sells it by falling like.

Speaker 2 (01:21:50):
Falls backwards over. I'm not I'm not sure if it's
real blood or not all his cheek. But then you
start saying a little bit of blood and then he's like,
you know, stagger into the back and everything. Oh my god,
nobody's reacting no to the snake bite.

Speaker 1 (01:22:06):
No no, because nobody saw it. Jr. Is doing his
best to sell it as like some sort of major happening.
But this was a tough, tough sell.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
It's tough live. But like when you have what he
could do it in post production, like uh, you know
a Superstars when it bent Randy Savage, you definitely get
a better have a better shot at making it look chaotic.
But man, this didn't look as chaotic.

Speaker 1 (01:22:29):
This This was just it was. It was rough. It
was really rough, disjointed and just anti climactic, and we
only got like one deal with the glove, and the
build up to get any glove wasn't that great anyway.
So it's just this is a dad and a half
but top non wrestling happening. Nick, what do you have here?

Speaker 4 (01:22:51):
Okay, Jim, thank you very much?

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
Oh boy, is it Paul Dangerously?

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
First I didn't like it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:01):
By the yeah, it comes around, it comes around.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
Credit is due.

Speaker 4 (01:23:06):
It was all my idea to start within and it
wasn't honor to get half of the winner's purse to
Harley Race. It wasn't honor half of the winners, not
Big Van Vader because another spoiler. Man nut at all. Oh,
I am no rinsing for the crude success. That's all

(01:23:29):
me Me me, Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:23:34):
Well Well, Medusa, the original Paul Hammon girl Medusa.

Speaker 5 (01:23:41):
Mister Harley Race, I'm mister Van Vader, Ravishing, Rick Rude
and the first lady w CW you for winning the
heavyweight title.

Speaker 3 (01:23:51):
I've had it with you. I've had it with you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
I have had it whuse you didn't do anything Paul.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
Since day one? By had it with you.

Speaker 4 (01:24:01):
First of all, one thing straight. I am the brains.
I am the bussell. I am the dangerous alliance. You
know why because I am a man, am a sue
period number one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
The brains, the boss.

Speaker 4 (01:24:23):
You're just a woman, nothing but a woman inferior sub.

Speaker 1 (01:24:31):
Sub nothing more than a check that takes orders.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
You Medusa have been good.

Speaker 4 (01:24:38):
For one year for one thing, and that one thing
has been the take care of each and everyone of
Ravishing the courage needs.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
But between the man, the reason that I hired you
for that job.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
Is because the other.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
Hooker that I had in mind had a play this obligation.

Speaker 4 (01:25:01):
Wow, why a start out to you warm on.

Speaker 3 (01:25:09):
So that even a.

Speaker 4 (01:25:10):
Woman can't understand why they're my man?

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
Man man, you are a woman? Woman?

Speaker 3 (01:25:17):
Woman?

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
What's me is?

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
Damn it?

Speaker 4 (01:25:20):
You are fired, fired, dire and the cause you're a.

Speaker 3 (01:25:24):
Woman, and I know that mean that you're stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:25:27):
I'll stay I are Biard Biard fire.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
An he stretches, and Medusa's had enough? Right, I love yours.
There's like seven security guards around Medusa. It takes like

(01:26:02):
ten people to get her off of Paul dangerous. We
don't see nob fine, dad, says Messina himself. What kind
the restored? What does Connors and neber to love? Oh

(01:26:31):
my goodness, the speakers are here. Oh my what you oh? Hey,
six you racid? I'll tell you this, but w c

(01:26:54):
W do you see actually like this?

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Jim Ross?

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
Well, the thing about it, Jess is at number one.
Paul is right, he did hire her. She works for him,
or shall we say she did work for him? I
know and you know that.

Speaker 4 (01:27:06):
Ravishing Rick Brood is the number one man in the
entire dangerous Alliance.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
Now how is he going to react if Medusa.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
Is not there to take care of as Paul said
of us every kneed, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:27:16):
Well, by the way, he didn't react at all.

Speaker 1 (01:27:23):
That's funny. Yeah, that was That was my Also my
top non wrestling happening as well. Medusa whipping up on
Paul Dangerously. Yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:27:32):
So this happened before Rick Rud's match and he comes
out with Medusa for his match like nothing happened. It's
just kind of funny to me.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
That was a wild time though. That was a good time.
That was a good segment.

Speaker 5 (01:27:44):
It was.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
It was rough in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (01:27:45):
Didn't have much to pick for him for that.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
That's fair, and Paul Dangerously was pouring it on. He
was laying it on thick. The only way you can
redeem this segment because it's about to be about worst
time non wrestling happening. But they brought it the ground
with Medusa whipping up boring Paul Hayman and then taking
seven people to prior her off of Paul Dangerously and
Tony Shavanni looking around like what the hell is going

(01:28:08):
on here? But that was amazing. I agree with you
on that, but I do have an honorable mention and
that is Teddy Loong's do rag. Okay, that alone was happening,
all right, This purple sparkly do rag with the shades. Wow,
what a look in nineteen ninety two with Teddy Long.

(01:28:29):
I guess he looked good for somebody. Just a wild look,
all right. But also his interview with Masahiro Chno h
n w A president Segi Sakaguchi, who was a wrestler himself,
and can say Kinsuke Sasaki, Sasaki, Kinsuki Kasaki, Teddy Long

(01:28:53):
did his absolute best okay anyway, hero Matt Suda as well,
and that's when Teddy Long asked Chrono like who was
going to be official? And they you know, talked amongst
themselves and they said Sasaki was going to be the official.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
Oh he's right here, Yeah convenient, Yeah, how about that?

Speaker 3 (01:29:12):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
That was all weird though. That was a really weird
storyline with those two with the whole yeah picking their
official thing and all that. It was just strange.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
But ultimately end up at a DQ like that didn't
mean anything. It's just yeah, a lot of nothing for
the sake and nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
That's a lot of nothing. Worst non wrestling happening. I
already told you I had to spend the wheel and
make the deal segment. I'll also add to that as
an honorable mention. Eric Watson's promo.

Speaker 2 (01:29:39):
Was that was bad.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
He needed some work on that.

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
You could tell people who just even Bill Watts was bad,
like they just don't know how to talk to but
in public at.

Speaker 1 (01:29:51):
Least, Bill Watson was a veteran who had cut promos
in the past. He had made money doing it, so
he had somewhat of a track record. But that don't
mean the talent transfers to the next generation. It's not
uh not hereditary apparently because it didn't carry get passed
on to Eric Watts. He needed he needed some work.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
There was a few years away from Techno Team two thousand.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
Oh man, he'll get a lot of TV, a lot
of promo time. Then it's just funny when you see
like what, man, what why didn't this person like really
become a big star. Why didn't this person become a
big star? And sometimes you watch these shows you're like, yeah,
you don't get it. It's like why didn't they like
why didn't they pull the trigger with this person? But
there are other times where you're like, oh, I see
why I get it, and with Eric Watts, I get it. Big,

(01:30:38):
probably athletic. I'm sure he could do all the moves,
but that charisma was m I A.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
Ron Simmons. He said far away, but I could see
he did.

Speaker 1 (01:30:51):
What you're on your way, you got a ways to
go and something like that. I was that shit, bro,
I laughed, s for sure, got a way to go. Yeah,
you're not there by a mile you got you got
a long way to go, but you gonna get there
one day. Okay, all right, now, keep working hard like me,

(01:31:14):
keep working, keep up alive, Eric Watts, maybe one day
maybe laugh. Yeah, I thought that was hilarious as well. Uh,
what was your worst non wrestling happening. I'm not sure
if you had one.

Speaker 2 (01:31:26):
Yet, Teddy long interview backstage. Yeah, a lot of nothing.
And then him butchering the name. Uh you know, I
said it right the first time, Kinsuki Sasaki and then
he said Konsuki Kasaki, so I mean, like you his
best and I clipped the whole thing that I won't
play the whole thing because you know, long and born.

Speaker 1 (01:31:47):
Kinsuki Sasaki, Kinsuki Kasaki Kasaki.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
The beginning, and then It just made me laugh. And
by the way, I didn't even realize Teddy Long was
like a correspondent like that. I thought he was just
a manager at this point before becoming a ref. And no,
he would I didn't realize he was doing that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
He would wear those do rags on TV bro.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
Yeah, the backage when I knew him, he was the
manager of Doom, right with Ron Simmons and Red and
I had like their action figures and everything, and I
had their trading cards and I was like, Oh, that's
how I knew what Teddy Long was. I just thought
he was a manager. But he also did he come

(01:32:31):
out with Ron Simmons or no?

Speaker 1 (01:32:33):
Was he was?

Speaker 4 (01:32:34):
He?

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
Yeah, he was part of the security I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:32:39):
The Goldberg interns before Goldberg. We'll talk about it. We'll
talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
I was like, yeah, that's right, he managed him and
but read. But yeah, I didn't know he was a correspondent.
So good for him.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
There you go. Moment. He tried his best man, He
did his best hidden gyms. Do you have any I
got sasake beating up Arlie Race after that match, after
the n W Ale.

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Vader versus call off was not not bad. I love
the power bomb at the end. And apparently that was
Nick Nikiti Koloff's last match. So ever, yeah, I after that,
So I didn't like I did and then didn't like
the idea of being like a surrogate title defender. But

(01:33:24):
it kind of what kind of worked for me on
this night. Well, if only we could do that in
pro sports, get somebody else. If only the Eagles could
pick another team to fight their battles at certain.

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
Weeks, certain weeks, it should have been the Saints last week,
would have beat the giant kell Kellen Moore come back
and help us beat these guys. All right, it wasn't
that hard for us, and we're the Saints.

Speaker 2 (01:33:54):
I was looking for Frankie in the audience, by the way,
I couldn't find him. Corey and Sean them, I can
find them.

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
You talk, who are they? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
When they were at ringside for Vader versus Jake Roberts, remember.

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
That, Oh, we gotta talk about that one day. You
gotta do that one day. That's true. Uh, speaking in
Nikita and Vada mact that had my best spot. In
my worst spot, I thought the best spot was Nikita,
Uh slamming Vader like it was nothing. I thought that
was impressive. But the power bomb, power bomb was mine

(01:34:31):
that Nikita that the Vada did on Nikita. It wit
that looked terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:34:36):
It almost looked like he was gonna watch it and
maybe maybe it was a botch, but it looks like nasty,
and you know how big Nikita is, Like, I thought
that was pretty impressive. I was like after like everything,
even in the attag match that I thought was good,
or Steamboat versus Pelman, which by the way, I love
the sunset flip off the top and into the counter,

(01:34:58):
into the other counter where one I thought the power
Later power bomb was like, what's it?

Speaker 1 (01:35:06):
Yeah? I thought it was but it looked painful as
all hell. Looked terrible. Maybe that was Nikita was like,
you know what, I'm done now.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
Maybe it took that was plan going into that match,
but yeah, it was the last match.

Speaker 1 (01:35:20):
He said after that one, that's it. I think that
was my last bump. I'm done. Uh, but let's move
on to random thoughts. I got a couple of random
thoughts here, I got I got a I got a few. Actually, Uh,
you saw Johnny gunn And and on the show, Uh
not Billion Bart's long lost brother.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Well we don't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:35:42):
Well, as far as we know, he's not. But he
was the man who eventually played savatoge Sincere in w
w F in the mid nineties. From Philly, Uh Johnny
gunn Uh. Speaking of Philly, they hated up boy Tom
saying z man rest in peace. But on this night, Boy,
they did not camp. They booed all the baby faces
in the opening match, Shane Douglas included. I guess they

(01:36:06):
were just too corny.

Speaker 2 (01:36:08):
They booed him. They booted Shane because he was a
right wing Republican they did.

Speaker 1 (01:36:13):
Did you hear No, that's why they boot him? No,
But Jesse said, that's what he's saying.

Speaker 2 (01:36:21):
He said, So, Jes, what I don't like about Shane
Douglas is that he's a far right Republican. Jim, all right,
So am, I I don't know that, But you know,
I don't know what politics were like back in ninety two.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
The election was not like but not like they are today.
That's a lot different, that is for sure, but the
world has changed.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
The funniest part was just Jim's reaction, Like what Jesse
had A couple.

Speaker 1 (01:36:48):
Of Jesse had a yeah, he had a couple. It
was election season. We are in October. The presidential election
was rapidly approaching, and that was eventually won by Bill Clinton,
who took his first from an office in nineteen ninety two,
and I guess, you know, inaugurated in ninety three.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
But but yeah, I remember that was the first election
I can remember same.

Speaker 1 (01:37:11):
That was the first president I can remember as well.
I was a little too young for George H. W
which was the president that preceded Clinton, but Clinton was
the first one that I can remember. But yeah, I
guess Jesse was you know, obviously he was into politics,
so I guess he was an undated He was probably
watching c SPAN and seeing in all day getting ready
for this election. So he was just that was just
on his brain. Couldn't wait to talk about Republicans and

(01:37:34):
Democrats and independents and Green Party members. They just talked
about that that they would have just like he would
have just ignored the wrestling matches. It was just talking
about politics the whole time. That opening match also had
a weird finish. I thought, I don't remember it now
on top of my head, but I had my notes.
It was weird, So so it had to have been weird.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
The crowd right away started building, so maybe laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:37:55):
Yeah, crowd hated that whole thing, that whole endeavor.

Speaker 2 (01:37:59):
Man, that's my guy. I feel bad because I agree.
First wrestling figure I ever got from the PCW.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
Z Man was dope. He was a high flyer, but
it was like a huge high fly He was a
high flyer for like the early nineties, but like he
was also like six two two three like that being
a high flyer. The z Man not a great name,
by the way, z Man, but his talent with the
wrestler rest in Peace. Tom Zinc had another note about
the E. A. G. L Ees Eagles.

Speaker 3 (01:38:26):
They played.

Speaker 1 (01:38:27):
They played on the same day of this event. Oh
they won. Their offense was struggling back then too, did
you know that? But they won. They won seven to three.
They could have used it to three so bad. Look,
we're not that far off, okay, but they won seven

(01:38:50):
to three over the Phoenix Cardinals, not the Arizona Cardinals.
Was Phoenix Cardinals. Phoenix Cardinals who played in Tempe, Arizona.
So it's all over the place. So that's why they
became the Arizona Cardinals because it never made sense for
them to beat the Phoenix Cardinals in Tempe. But the Cardinals,
if you were curious, turned it over four times, Eagles

(01:39:14):
only once. The QB play was also rough. Reynald Cunningham
went nine of twenty four hundred and twenty one yards
and one touchdown, but he was sacked five times by
five different players. That's rough. Cardinals quarterback Chris Chandler, who
was also eventually on the Falcons when they went to
the Super Bowl in the late nineties, Yeah, he went

(01:39:35):
eight of sixteen. No quarterback quarterback. Yes, he went eight
of sixteen one hundred and eighteen yards, one pick, and
the Cardinals lost three fumbles. Yikes. But even though the
offense was kind of rough on this day, the Eagles
were good enough to go eleven and five and won
a playoff game, beat the Saints in the playoffs, and

(01:39:56):
then it took a trip to Dallas next week in
a divisional round and that was rough and the season ended. Phillies.
Want to talk about Phillies in October? Were they playing
them on this top? Was there red October ninety two?

Speaker 4 (01:40:10):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:40:10):
No, no.

Speaker 1 (01:40:13):
They went seventy and ninety two in nineteen ninety two,
ninety two losses for the year nineteen ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:40:18):
Two worst, the false worse, the first, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:40:20):
Because the next year was a little bit better. Yeah,
went to won a division, went to the NLC, won
the NLC has won the pennant, and then and then
lost away.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
We got a lot of ninety three memorabilia. I don't
know if I haven't now, but I did back then.
I wish I kept everything, but I didn't. But I
had a book that had the title from worse to First,
and that's when I first saw that phrase use. So
every time I hear from worse first, I always think

(01:40:48):
about the ninety three Phillies.

Speaker 1 (01:40:50):
There you go, still one of the more beloved teams
in the city. When you talk about sports teams like,
oh remember this team, Remember that team? If you you
would have thought that ninety three Phillies were the best
team of all time in Philadelphia. The way people talk
about that particular team, even though they didn't even get
to a Game seven of the World Series. They don't
w't win it, they lost in six, but people still

(01:41:12):
have fond, fond memories of that ninety three team.

Speaker 2 (01:41:16):
Which they probably would have lost, but still, man game.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
It's just they don't people don't remember the two thousand
ap Phillies as finally the twenty twenty the twenty seventeen
Eagles as well. Like people love that three nineteen eighty Phillies,
you know who also won a World Series. No bro
that ninety three team. For whatever reason, people love that

(01:41:39):
damn team. I spotted a straw hat guy in the crowd,
John Bayley, and he was yeah the whole all the
super fans were out. John Bailey, by the way, still
making appearances out here, so you might see him in
the wrestling circle here and there. Ron Simmons his entrance,

(01:42:02):
he had his music hot garbage, terrible music, but apparently
he had their original Goldberg entrance like he had people
surrounding him, He had security guys making sure he wasn't touched.
You saw him walk from the locker room to the ring.
Really interesting to see Ron Simmons get that type of

(01:42:24):
entrance in early nineties and Goldberg made it like the
thing by ninety eight. It was like the spectacle it was.
But here comes Ron Simmons with his terrible music. Maybe
that was the reason why he had terrible music. And
he came out with Teddy Long with the purple sparkly
do rag and it's just like, we can't take him seriously. Sorry,
he can't take them. They can't do it. We can't

(01:42:45):
take them seriously. But with that suid though, Ron Simmons,
I don't think we've talked enough about Ron Simmons's football
accomplishments on this show.

Speaker 2 (01:42:56):
Because I feel like doing the semon Old chop right right, and.

Speaker 1 (01:43:00):
Because also Florida State at this time is doing really
well in college football. But and you know, people just
like doing especially white people like doing the tomahawk chop.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12):
They have a Florida State seven old sweatshirt that look
was my favorite sweatshirt back then.

Speaker 1 (01:43:16):
They'll they'll fight you over the tomahawk chop, all right,
it don't even belong to them, and they'll fight you over.
But I just felt like we always talk about Ron Simmons,
you know, the APA and everything else. And you know,
now you know, of course, the first black world heavyweight
champion in history at least recognized in CHIP in history
as far as black world champions, but as a football player,

(01:43:40):
we gotta talk about this for a second because it
was a legend at Florida State, which is one of
the more prominent programs in the country, even though they
just came off I think their third straight loss yesterday
as we record this, But that's neither hear nor there.
As a freshman, Ron Simmons had one hundred and twenty
eight tackles, thirteen tackles we lost, twelve sacks, and thirteen

(01:44:01):
force fumbles as a defensive tackle. You don't get one
hundred and twenty tackles and twelve and double digit sacks
as a detackle. And that's according to twenty four to
seven dot com, twenty four seven sports dot Com, or
all those stats. In nineteen seventy nine. The next year
he was named a consensus All American. He finished ninth

(01:44:23):
in Heisman voting as a defensive tackle in the late seventies,
which is not like you know then, like everybody got
to watch all the games, you know, and see everybody play.
You had to be nice. And in the nineteen eighty
he's a consensus All American again.

Speaker 2 (01:44:40):
He was the first.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
He led Florida State to their first New yeark Day's
New Year's Day Bowl bids in nineteen seventy nine in
nineteen eighty, both of which were the Orange Bowl. During
his time there, Florida State went thirty nine and eight
no ties, which was a thing back then. They didn't
have overtime in college football, so you had to recognize
the tie. Thirty eight wins, eight losses, zero ties. When

(01:45:03):
he left, he held school records for tackles were loss
with forty four and forced fumbles with seventeen. He was
the first defensive player in program history to have his
number retired. Number was fifty, and he was inducted into
the school's Hall of Fame in nineteen eighty six, the
same year he broke into wrestling. He's in Florida State

(01:45:24):
Football's Hall of Fame in nineteen eighty six. He's a
Hall of Famer before he ever wrestled, before he set
foot in the ring, he was a Hall of Famer
in a sport. And of course, he was inducted into
the college Football Hall of Fame in two thousand and eight.
Incredible career of Florida State. He was selected by the
Cleveland Browns and the sixth round of the nineteen eighty

(01:45:45):
one NFL Draft, but he was cut and he played
in Canada and the USFL before calling it quits and
getting into wrestling. But I wrote down. It was like,
it's crazy how legendary of a football figure he is,
and how you know he is known for this tremendous
career in college and in pro wrestling too. Let's not

(01:46:05):
forget his pro wrestling accolades, but he's most known for
saying damn and playing cards and drinking beer in a
makeshift office that consisted of a table for the playing cards,
a file cabinet for the beer, and a door that
wasn't connected to anything. That's what he's most famous for,

(01:46:27):
probably as like an athlete, like that's his impression on society,
not his accolades of Florida State, not even his accolades.
It's the first black world champion's damn And give me
a beer out of the cabinet. Hey brother, you got
to knock on the door first before we let you in.
But Ron Simmons a goat. A goat obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:46:49):
Follow orders, you know that walk through the door. But
that was the best part of that, by the way,
where it was like everyone had to do it, like
no special treatment for can't go around the door, man,
I gotta go through it.

Speaker 1 (01:47:05):
Yeah, gotta go through it. It's so stupid, but yeah,
that's all the random notes that I had about the show.

Speaker 2 (01:47:14):
What about you say, well, what was happening in the
w F at this time, Yeah, a changing of the
guard around this dorm October ninety two where Bret Hart
beat Rick Flair to become WF champion. By the way,
I don't even think that they showed that on like
primetime wrestling, because this is before Monday Night. We're all

(01:47:36):
there's still a few months away from that. So I
remember seeing it a like primetime wrestling, and then they
would run it, you know, on syndication on the weekends
and whatever, and I remember thinking Bret Hart, like what,
you know, I didn't buy him obviously, even though Ye's
a baby face, you know, like I'm like, okay, at least,
like I thought, ready Savage might beat Rick Flair or

(01:47:58):
Ultimate Warrior eventually beat Rit Flair, because you know, they
had that whole three way feud going with you know, Flair, Warrior,
Well Warrior and Savage were a tag team at that point.
They had Razor Ramone come in and they had like
the Survivor series the next month, the tag match. But
you know, just like watching WWF shows at this time

(01:48:20):
so different, which is why I never got into WCW
that much. We talked about the lighting earlier. It's just
this show just looks low rent, you know. And even
as a if I didn't see WWF on TV before this,
I probably would feel different. But the fact that I
was watching WWF before and I had like, if I

(01:48:44):
were I was watching this, I wouldn't really paying much
attention to it, and I didn't. Now I remember saying
I started watching WCW in ninety three or that was
the first time I really watched it. I remember bits
and parts of this era of WCW. Now, I didn't
watch it the way I watched WWF. But you know,
I had a cousin who had watched this wrestling in general,

(01:49:07):
so he had, you know, talked to me about w
CW before, about Cactus Jack, you know, he was like
you would I was watching something that he had on
TV at his house and he was like, you think
Cactus Jack goes back Bang? And I was like, no,
what the hell is that? And then I see Cactus
Jack on TV going back Bang, and I'm like, this
is such a weird, you know, wrestling thing, Like I

(01:49:29):
this isn't my w WF. I thought it was weird,
you know, so watching like this era back, I'm I
remember seeing Barry Windham turn on Dustin Rhodes at some point,
you know live. I was living in South Philly at
the time before I moved to South Jersey. I remember
watching that in that house. You know, maybe my dad

(01:49:54):
watched that, you know, here and there, Like I don't.
I never like wanted wrestling on TV. That wasn't WWF,
you know, like it was usually put on for me,
right I didn't know what time it came on or
when it came on. It would just be put on
for me. Now my parents would just put it on
WCW here and there was on, but I just never

(01:50:17):
got into it. So this show was like right around
that time where we moved from South Philly to Seltzersey.
I want to say it was October of ninety one
or November of ninety one, So I had to have
seen something in this era of WWW. Maybe it wasn't Seltzersey,

(01:50:42):
but just little bits and pieces of this era of WCW.
I remember just being completely down on as compared to WWF.
You know, like even though I wasn't buying Brett Hart
as a World Champion. I was just like, well, like,
this isn'tf you know, like I just didn't care about it,

(01:51:03):
so I just it was just kind of weird how that,
you know, even the look of WCW with the ring ropes,
you know, the different colors and the turn different turn
buckle colors. It was just like this, this isn't wrestling.
Like I'm here, you know, like four or five years
old saying this isn't rustling. Like the red, white and

(01:51:23):
blue was easy to see, right, Like everything else was
the same color, the ring posts, the turn buckles, the
mats in WWF, we're all the same color. And now
you're giving me yellow, blue and black ropes. Like at
least red, white and blue had a theme, you know
what I mean, Like I knew what it meant. I
was like, oh, like the f the colors of the

(01:51:45):
American flag at least, like I know that's why the
ropes were that color. And you give me like yellow
blue and black ropes. Was like, what the hell does
that have to do with anything? There's no theme there,
there's no theme for those colors. No blue turnbuckle and
yellow turnbuckle pads. But what the hell So like that
stuff really stood out to me at this time and

(01:52:07):
probably why I didn't like watching WCW until they started
having like the black ropes and it was like easier
for me to watch almost And it's so weird hearing
me say it out loud, but that's literally how I
viewed it back as a kid, which I wonder like
if anyone else was as weird as me, or you know,
felt the same thing about.

Speaker 1 (01:52:28):
Just I'm sure no. I've heard this from other people
about this time period, about how dark it was, and
you don't have to look too far, like just look
at each show. You look at each show back to back,
our WWF shows from ninety two or w's W show
from the same time period, and it's night and day.
The production in WWF was light years ahead, and it
wasn't like w's W had the greatest production. And then

(01:52:50):
Bill Watts came and I think kind of dumbed it
down even more. Was just like we're gonna kick it
old school and turn the lights down and put the
emphasis on the ring and did not light anything else,
and it just looked bad. And then it pales in
comparison to even what ws W would be like a
year or two from now. In ninety four ninety five,
when Eric Bischoff came in, it's like, we're gonna like
the place up a little bit. Let's brighten it up.

(01:53:10):
And you go back and watch Halloween Having ninety four,
which we just did. You know a couple of weeks
ago that even that show looks like, Wow, this looks
like a professionally like big time promotion, not just like
another promotion running shows. It looked like they know what
they're doing, like and they put new little production behind it,
where that wasn't the case in ninety two for wis
W and this show is a prime example of how

(01:53:31):
it's just like it doesn't look great that it doesn't
help the show. It doesn't help it. No, I can
know that. I don't know if it hurts it, but
it doesn't help. I know that I know that much.
But any other random note.

Speaker 2 (01:53:45):
One, yep, I enjoyed Jesse Ventura throwing potshots at the
Atlanta Braves for not being able to win a World
series last.

Speaker 1 (01:53:52):
Two years because it didn't go in ninety one. In
ninety two they did lost, and they lost to the
Twins both years to the Twins go back to.

Speaker 2 (01:54:00):
Bad enough to know the Blue Jays were ninety two.

Speaker 1 (01:54:03):
Oh the Blue went back to back.

Speaker 2 (01:54:04):
Yeah, yes, yes, because they beat the Spellies the next year.

Speaker 1 (01:54:07):
But it's true, but they beat the it was the
Twins ninety one and then the Blue Jays ninety two,
So I.

Speaker 2 (01:54:13):
Thought jesse vn torn taking shots at them, even though
this company is like the Atlanta Braves super fans. Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:54:20):
Still, that is kind of wild.

Speaker 2 (01:54:21):
I think that's that is kind of wild. And did
that why? That's probably why he did it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:26):
That is kind of wild in hindsight. The company owns
that team and you clown on them for not getting
it done. And they wouldn't get it done until ninety
five I think when.

Speaker 2 (01:54:36):
And then uh twenty one was the last time.

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
So yeah, but they was going to like the playoffs
every year. They didn't have like a street for like
twenty years straight. They would they won a division or
something like that, wasn't it. They were in the playoffs.
It was only like one wild card spot back. Yeah,
this was yep, the like four or four playoffs, four
teams I think in Ease League at most.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
For Syear the wildcard was ninety four, so they were
you would win the division and go right to the
championship series.

Speaker 1 (01:55:01):
Yeah, only two teams would make and there was only
two divisions yep. Back in these days you get the
n L Central, NL West and the NL East. Uh
and that no NL Central, nothing like that. It was
just the West and the East. I think the Braves
might have played in the West, like something like that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:55:14):
Yeah, because the Phillies were the East and Naughty threes
the Yeah Braves and the National League Championship Series.

Speaker 1 (01:55:20):
Yeah. So as weird as that sounds, the Atlanta Braves
where in the NL West before they re aligned and
made it a little more sensible. Uh. It was like
football too. Football is to have the AFC Central, but
it had the Jaguars and the Titans and like what
the hell are they doing here?

Speaker 3 (01:55:36):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:55:36):
And the and the forty nine not the forty nine
is the Falcons and the Saints played in the NFC West,
which is bizarre. Cowboys still play in the NFC East,
but that's you know, rivalry sake, you know, and just
keep them in the Also, they if they're playing in
the NFC East, that means to playing other big market
teams like the New York Giants, the Philadelphia Eagles and
the Washington Commanders where they would not be playing those

(01:55:57):
teams in the NFC South right or the NFC West,
so at least not as many and then again built
in rivalries there. But it's still kind of bizarre. But
we're more bizarre baseball back in the day when you
just two divisions and if you don't win that division,
you don't make the postseason, yep, and you go straight
to the championship series. And that was playoffs. And then
owner said, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait, if we

(01:56:19):
add more teams, we could add more games and then
we can make more money. Oh yeah, let's do that.
And then they would a long time with four. They
would have four for like twenty five, thirty years, well
not thirty years maybe, but like a long time. And
then the only recently last since I think twenty twenty two,
maybe twenty one is when they went to six.

Speaker 2 (01:56:42):
The first year they had the was how the Phillies
got in, Yeah, the sixth to wild card, so exactly
so spot I just said the third wild card.

Speaker 1 (01:56:50):
I don't know if they're going to expand to like
an eighth team at any point. I can't rule it
out because you know, greed is still a thing, But
I don't know if you're gonna have quality teams at
that point if you add eight teams and then you're
already dipping in, right, That's what I'm saying. You're already
kind of dipping into the to the kind of teams

(01:57:11):
that don't belong with six. And it's crazy because in
football that was really rarely the case where you just
have teams who just clearly didn't belong in the playoffs.
With six, you definitely have that to be. In the
case with seven, you have it like one more team,
and some of those teams in garbage all of a
sudden at the seventh spot. But I think the seventh
seed won a playoff game a couple of years ago.

(01:57:32):
Though it's happened, it's definitely happened. I feel like the
Packers when he beat the Packers beat the Cowboys a
couple of years ago in the playoffs with Jordan Love
and them. I think that was this two versus seven
matchup in the seventh seed one. But so far the
seventh seed has gotten smoked in the first round of
the football playoffs. But those six sees, I don't know
that Wald Card is for the most part in baseball,

(01:57:53):
except this year. I guess the waldcard teams have been
done pretty well. They have, they have, but and I
think the Tigers didn't. The Tigers went Essential rights were
the wildcard because Cleveland came Cleveland won Essential. Yeah, so
another wildcard team still was still doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:10):
That's where they eliminated them. But that was like, that
was one of the anomaly type things where people just
assumed Detroit Detroit was the better team and they just
kind of collapsed, but they were.

Speaker 1 (01:58:20):
Probably they did collapse. I forgot anyway, Yeah, I forgot
that Cleveland had to surge at the end and Detroit
collapsed at the end. But they were playing better than
Cleveland for the most of the year. But yeah, that's
just football and baseball playoffs. Jesse Tour the Brave. Yeah, well,

(01:58:41):
if you have never.

Speaker 2 (01:58:41):
Any like faxes to the headquarters.

Speaker 1 (01:58:46):
Off the air, just hey, tell Jesse to shut up.

Speaker 2 (01:58:50):
Phone calls and faxes and right, no, probably not emails.

Speaker 1 (01:58:54):
But Bobby Cox and the boys don't get it together
ninety three. Don't worry. The Phillies ain't gonna be good
ninety three. So we got it right, right, don't worry
about it. You got Tipper Jones, Baby, Greg Maddox, Tom Glavin.
It was dominant, though it was nasty. John Smoltz, they
were they were Andie Jones. I'm not Andrew Jones in
ninety two.

Speaker 2 (01:59:14):
But it's funny because I never hated them. The older
I got, the more I hated because I started getting
hate from you know, those fans, and it was really
like just a reaction to the other fans that really
cemented my hate for rivals. So I mean, I was
I wasn't brought up to hate rivals, you know, like
my parents weren't super super into sports, you know, like it.

(01:59:36):
It was like an acquired hate that I got from
really other fans just being at jerks.

Speaker 1 (01:59:43):
Yeah, per USh, per USh.

Speaker 2 (01:59:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:59:47):
But yeah, if you have nothing else, let's wrap it
up for episode four forty three. So Nick, all right,
take us out with some plugs.

Speaker 2 (01:59:52):
Please could follow me at Underscore, Pecoon on Twitter and
at Pecoon Nick on TikTok and threads and on Blue Sky.
I'm at Acne. I don't know, I haven't been able
to share many clips recently, but you know that's if
you only follow me for that, then I'm sorry, but uh,

(02:00:12):
you can follow me there and also us at Shooters
Radio on Twitter, Blue Sky, Instagram, threads, Facebook, and shooters
pod dot com. You can find wherever we are on
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Speaker, Odyssey, tune In, Amazon, Pandora,

(02:00:32):
everywhere everywhere, so follow us on those platforms.

Speaker 1 (02:00:36):
Please do. You can follow me on X at Vaughan M.
Johnson on Instagram at Vaughan dot Johnson one six six
Why don't I can't I remember my own handle and
I gotta look at Instagram every day.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
But it's all right, Uh, pretty sure there's a dot
in there.

Speaker 1 (02:00:51):
Pretty sure that sounds about right. But yes, you can
follow me there. I'm on Blue Sky, von dot Johnson
or at Vaughan Johnson. I forget my handles everywhere. Uh.
You can check us out on Patreon, Patreon dot com
slash shooters Radio. You can request a future deep dive
just like this one does not have to be a
wrestling pay per view. It could be a TV show,

(02:01:12):
it could be boring me to world, I just talked
about that, but if you want us to cover that,
head on over again to Patreon dot com slash Shooters Radio.
But until next time for Nick Pocone. I am Vaughan Johnson.
Thanks for listening to episode four forty three of the
Straight Shooters and we'll catch you again next week. Thank Clavage.
Wake up the show on Oh Yeah Jiggy

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