448: WWE Survivor Series '02 Deep Dive

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
What's up everyone out there on the Internet land, and
welcome to episode four forty eight of the Straight Shooters
available wherever podcasts are found. My name is Vaughan Johnson
and I'm joined as always by my main man, Pots
and Pants, Nip percona Crossing broad and Fox PHL The Gambler,
and we have yet another fantastic show ahead of us
here on episode four forty eight. It is a deep dive.

(00:35):
It is a Patreon request that we've been owed for
a while now. We've been holding off for a while,
but we finally got it done. It is the two
thousand and two Survivor series. I know we're pass Sivivor
series in current day times, but we had a Patreon
request that we had to fulfill for the two thousand
and two Survivor series. Of course, the event the site

(00:57):
of the very first elimination Chamber match. We did a
live commentary on that match alone I think this time
last year. But now we're doing the whole event and
we're gonna talk all about it. And it's a Patreon
request later on in the show for our deep dive
before we get into anything else, including the current day
nonsense and this is this is a good amount of
nonsense to talk through here. Let me do my main,

(01:18):
my check in with my main man pots and pants, Nick,
How are you on this Sunday afternoon, My good brother.

Speaker 2 (01:23):
Man Chilly, I'm loving the weather right now, give me
a number between one and fourteen. Six Okay, Now give
me a number between one and fifty five.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
Sixteen all right.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
That is part of my wrestling collection, the SmackDown episodes
from October fourteenth, two thousand and five, October twenty first,
two thousand and five, and October twenty eighth, two thousand
and five on one VHS tape that is in box
number six and I labeled it take number sixteen. So

(02:03):
I have finished like putting in all the data of
my wrestling collection. I finally have a tangible spot to
go and figure out what I have and where I
have it.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
So.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
You know, you know, it's funny. I finished it on
Black Friday, so I was watching the Eagles get stopped
by the Chicago Bears as I was finishing up rounding
out this collection and a Google doc which is very nice,
but you know what, Google docs is underrated. I think
like they got everything. Man, that's sweet. Word documented, they

(02:43):
got tabs, they got a lot more than you know.
Microsoft Words is like slow and plotting. Sometimes. I'm a
Google Docs guy, I think at this point in my life.

Speaker 1 (02:52):
So yeah, docks as well. I'm a fan of Google
Docs as well.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
And I mean we also use it for a rundown.
I have our our episode catalog using Google Sheets. So yeah, man,
it's it's nice and easy to use. Share it like
you could see it on your end. I don't have
to like email it to you or anything. You just
share it and boom, you have it right in front
of you in the cloud. There we go. Smack three

(03:20):
episodes of SmackDown on that tape. So not that I'm
watching all this stuff, but it might come in handy
at some point in the near future.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
It might if you all request a deep dive from
SmackDown in two thousand and five, we got you covered.

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Okay, Well, there's gonna be nowhere else to see it,
so I'm gonna have to figure out unless you we scoured.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
We scoured the internet somehow because.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Rather not download torrents.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
But you know, but let's get into the current day nonsense.
We'll kind of start off with this because we kind
of are already alluding to it. But ww's tape library
is leaving Peacock in January, and that sucks.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
It does get used to it after why three years?
Four years been on there?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Yeah, I think four years. I think since twenty twenty one.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Like WW network interface, the user experience was fine for me.
I know people like complained about that, but for me
it was fine. Took a little bit for Peacock for
me to get like familiarized with it. User experience fine.
Part of the Comcast umbrella you have Exfinity, it was
pretty easy to access on your TV or you don't
have to go to like, you know, an app or

(04:26):
to try and stream anything like you could do it
through your TV. It was easy for my dad, who
was older, whenever we wanted to put on something like
a wrestle media or a rubble anything, that was easy.
So now what are we gonna do? Is is everything
gonna go to netflixch By the way, Netflix is a
little bit harder through Xfinity, as is the ESPN Unlimited

(04:48):
app or whatever. So if that's the route they're going,
it's going to be very annoying for you know people, again,
not like it wasn't before.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
But I mean I would say.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Where's it gonna be? Where's it going?

Speaker 1 (05:02):
It's gotta go somewhere, right, I mean I would assume,
so I will say that it was nice. It is
nice to have ww's library at your fingertips somewhere. So
hopefully that doesn't that this lapse in not having it
at your fingertips, which we've had it for the last
eleven years since WW network launched. We've become accustomed to it.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
Now can give us it and take it away.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Right, that'd be kind of tough for people to deal with.
But a lot of it is on YouTube. I will
say that sometimes it's a full show. Sometimes I would
say a good chunk. I want to say a lot.
I won't take that back. Maybe not a lot.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
Like I don't like the YouTube setup, and maybe I'm
one of a minority, but I don't think that could
be a replacement. But I guess it's you know, it's
better than nothing.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
Which but I mean, what's wrong with the YouTube setup?

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I just don't like it. It's hard to find stuff
like everything not nothing. I know they got the playlist,
but it's like, why don't if you're you know, you
can go to the Great American Bash WCW and have
it on the WW network or peacock, And now you
can't because they don't have like a separate playlist for that.
You have to go to WCW channel and then just
like search for it. And I know you have like

(06:16):
the search function. It's probably easier through the YouTube app
to search for something, but it's I don't know, maybe
it's just the change of it and I'm not used
to it yet. I will haven't used the YouTube I
haven't gone to the YouTube channels as much as I
would have, you know, used peacock or WW network. But
you know, maybe that's all me.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
I will say YouTube it's free. There's that I mean,
I mean, it's not all on their internet, so well
beyond that, it's free though, right, But I will say
that it's not as quite maybe not quite as easy
because YouTube's interface isn't like set up to where you know,
I guess you can create playlists and stuff like that.
But I would assume it's probably easy to find on

(06:58):
like the WW network or Peacock or maybe even a Netflix,
but it's still some of it is still there. I
don't know if the entire libraries want to go to YouTube,
because again it's free, so I would assume that the
chunk of it, if it does go anywhere, it has
to go somewhere because it could be monetized. So it's
not like you just take it and that's it, Like

(07:19):
you got to put it somewhere. So either it is Netflix,
which to me would make the most sense, I guess,
since that's the biggest streaming platform they are in business with,
and Netflix has the library of multiple shows and you
know stuff like that. They have multiple every season of
Martin and different shows from around around the you know world.

(07:41):
They have different shows in different countries that we don't
have access to here. You can maybe access it through
a VPN or something like that. So they have entire
libraries of shows and stuff like that, so it's not
like it's something that's foreign to that platform. Ww's content
is probably more vast than like say a Martin because
Martin's only on the air for like five seasons. Ww's
been aroun for at least a library dates back to

(08:02):
the sixties or something like that, So yeah, there's more
hours of television and stuff to sift through and pay
per views. But it feels like that'd be the logical
place for it to go. Hopefully it goes somewhere, because
I think it's nice for wrestling fans to have that
again at their fingertips and be able to go back
to that whenever they want, even if it comes with
the cost of a Netflix description or a Peacock subscription

(08:25):
or back in the day at WW Network subscription, I
think it's worth the value you get, especially if it's
on the Netflix, because you get so much more than
just wrestling stuff. You know, the same thing with Peacock
it was more. You can subscribe to Peacock and not
only get WWE, but you get their entire library NBC
Universal content. And for Netflix, soon it'll be Warner Brothers

(08:45):
Discovery content because now Netflix is buying one of Brother's Discovery,
which means in some roundabout way, WWE and AAW are
kind of partner in some ways, like they're on the
same team in some ways, because of course a W

(09:07):
has a streaming deal and a television rights deal with
Warner Brothers Discovery, which now owns Netflix, but of course
w W has their streaming deal separate with Netflix. Really
interesting stuff happening there.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
It is like, uh, you know, HB HBO Max will
be and involved in that deal, so you wonder, like
Tony con has already said, it won't affect their current
streaming deal. I think there's still a few years left
on that. But what happens after that? Will they strike
a deal for AW streaming content to be on Netflix?

Speaker 1 (09:40):
I mean, WW has something to do with it. They
probably won't.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
That's what I'm thinking of, Like what are the like,
what are we going to see come out of this?
You know, Like, I mean, it doesn't mean anything for
a W's TV, which is good.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
But as we streaming deal, I could I could see
I don't know, because HBO Max is kind of Netflix's
competition too, but now Netflix owns HBO Max. So it's like,
what happens with all of this. It's it's just again
corporate giants becoming even larger giants at the end of

(10:15):
the day and everything coming you know, kind of homogenized
in that way. So it's less options for the consumer,
but maybe it's more security for AW in some ways
because you know, Warner Brothers, Discovery and all this properties
aren't going anywhere and it's not like Netflix is foreign

(10:36):
to wrestling. Yeah, I would assume that only WWE would
be against having AW on the platform if they were,
if that were to arise, if that situation were to arise.
Right now, it's HBO Max. But we don't know what's
gonna happen with HBO Max moving forward, right because Netflix
owns it, they can's like it's all Netflix now, you know,
like I.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Could just imagine WWD mad Maybe netflix whole idea was
We're going to have all the mainstream wrestling, and maybe
they want AW to be like a big part of it. Right,
Maybe you know, they might and that's what it might be, Like,
Oh no.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Please don't do that, And it's up to Netflix that
they want that that could happen. I guess we don't know. Again,
we don't know what's going to happen with this. This
is kind of unprecedented kind of deal.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
You have a gen. I remember the rumors implying this
might happen too. It just kind of came out of
nowhere earlier this week, and I was just like, I know,
maybe there were like bits and pieces like up until now,
like hey, this might happen, but like then boom, it happened.
It's not overnight, I know, it's going to take a
couple of years for this, you know, merger or acquisition

(11:44):
to go through, because that's how it is in the
corporate world. But everybody's already talked about how will AW
be affected, and then we already have some answers, but
we still have questions that will be answered in the future.
It's just, like you said, unprecedented, man, Like what does
this mean for wrestling fans? You know, Like that's what
I want, That's what I'm obviously most interested in seeing.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
How that is it possible that w W and AW
could one day be on the same platform and and
have mutual interests, like as far as like you're on
the same team kind of deal. I don't Again, that
seems kind of far fetched, and again we don't know,
But who knows. In this these days and times that

(12:30):
we're living in, it kind of unpredictable. The fact that
Netflix owns Warner Brothers is pretty great. Warner Brothers. Okay,
that's bugs, Bunny, you know what I'm saying, Like Looney Tunes,
you know what I'm saying, Like, that's crazy, that's pretty crazy, right,
Isn't Warner Brothers?

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Bugs?

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Bunny? Isn't bugs? Bunny and Warner Brothers. Let's I'm crazy. Uh,
let me look that up now, Yeah yeah, yeah I was, Yeah,
I was good with that. Yeah, okay, but that's also Batman.
You know in DC, all of the DC properties under
Warner Brothers right now, More to Kombat is under Warner Brothers.

(13:10):
So so many different properties that are under that umbrella
that now belongs to Netflix. It's pretty wild. It's pretty wild,
so we'll see how go ahead.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Speaking of Netflix, mm hmm, have you been watching the
Love Is Blind latest season? Oh?

Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, I watched it the Colorado season?

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Uh yeah, Denver, right, yeah, yeah, I have not is
it over? Have?

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Oh it's over.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
I have not seen the second of it because you know,
it's funny. We talked about the last Love Is Blind season.
We had a whole episode on it basically, yeah, yeah,
and I just I haven't. I think I saw after
like three episodes people were just not feeling the season
at all, and I just never started watching it. Look,

(13:57):
what would you say about.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
The would say that if you want to watch the
wildest kind of the wildest season with some of the
wildest people, it's it's a doozy bro just for to
be like, Oh, I didn't know to go like this,
this this color, this Denver season. There are some There
are some characters on that season, bro, that make it go, oh,

(14:21):
it's it's hopeless.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
It's hopeless with obviously we don't want to spoil, but
was there any marriages?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Look, you gotta watch and find out, brother, You gotta
watch and find out, brother. I gotta watch and find
out because it's oh is there's some there are some
twists and turns. Man, there's so much. There's so much.
Who is so many people in this season? Hold on
just one real quick, because you gotta I gotta say
I'll say some names, and you'll when you watch it,

(14:53):
you'll be like, oh, I think it's I think Edmund
is the most recent. Uh let me see, yeah Edmund? Boy,
wait till you meet Edmund? All right? Interesting? God is Edmund?
All right? Okay, let's see Joe and Madison. Man, they
have a they have a time together. Megan has a

(15:17):
lot of money. I just know that she's rich. Uh,
she's real rich.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (15:22):
And uh yeah, there's some there's some things, man. Yeah,
you gotta watch it, bro, Damn.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
How about stranger things? Are you stranger things? Guy?

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yes, I've just caught up last night brother spend a
season episode four of season five. Okay, yeah, fire fire,
I think I will say if maybe I'm nippicking some
of the dialogue and the way it's written in some
of the structure of the scenes. There's a lot of
like people going, I got an idea, I don't know
if it's going to work, and people go, well, do

(15:54):
you know if it's going to work. I don't know,
but it's worth a shot, and then they do it,
and then it's the right idea every time, somehow, somehow.
So that's a little bit a lot for me because
it kind of repeats itself in that sense. Also, people
always have something clever to say. It just it just
kind of bugs modern.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
Television with well, they're dealing with this.

Speaker 1 (16:15):
Right, this catastrophic thing with the pretty much the devil
was about to walk on the earth and just obliterate people.
So yeah, so that that aside, though it is still
it's still dope show, still fun, it's still great. And
it was the season episode four with where left off
before the new episodes drop on Christmas, which they don't

(16:36):
want people to hang out on Christmas. Apparently they just
want you to watch Stranger Things because that's what I'm
gonna do Christmas. But with that said, the way they
left it was like, oh yeah, my boy will buyers.
I ain't gonna say nothing else but for the people
who haven't watched it yet. But yeah, it's I'm excited.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
I'm gonna finish all three episodes that day and then
I'm gonna have to wait a week for the finale,
which is on.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
New Year's New Year's Eve. Yeah, I didn't know that, man.
I was hoping we get how many more episodes is
it going to be? Wait? You said, doesn't be three
more after this?

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Three on Christmas? And what one? Uh? Finale on New
Year's Eve?

Speaker 1 (17:14):
So without spoiling, a major cataclysmic event happened in episode four.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
And I'll figure out there's only one more.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
Episode after this. It can't get where are we going
after this?

Speaker 2 (17:27):
Like, well, I guess they could make it one episode,
but it's been like five hours, so.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
I mean I heard it finale. It's two hours, I know,
and that's a movie.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
I don't mind that. By the way, I don't need
it for last season. The last last few episodes were
very long, but I was into it, and so if
I'm into it, I'm okay with the length, you know,
because you're following it and you're like you're watching something happen.
You're they do flashback too, so you're like, I do
remember that, yes, and yeah, as certain things happen, You're like, Okay,

(17:58):
I gotta put a pint on that. I'm gonna need
to remember that for the future. And boom the thing
happened in the final the episode four. So you know, like,
I'm fine with that. With the longer episodes that, you know,
sometimes it just got got to build up to it.
It's it's not a six hour long aw pay per view, Like,
I'm fine, I'm fine with that.

Speaker 1 (18:20):
That's fair. That's fair. Uh. Speaking of we talked about
Peacock a little bit earlier, moving on from Netflix and
all this stuff going over the Stranger Things and Love
is Blind.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
Well, I still have not for Netflix, but uh something
else before we uh Survivor series. I want you to
say your thing first.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well, I was gonna go to Saturday Nights main event
coming up this coming weekend because we have go ahead.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
I was like, I don't know where I could you
start watching ploribus?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
I have not. I don't have Apple TV. Okay, I
will get it once ted Lasso comes back, probably, But I.

Speaker 2 (18:54):
Heard I just wrote down some some shows that I well,
Love is Blind. I haven't watched. Maybe I'll have to
go back and watch that. But plor Bus I got.
I got on the train because I've heard so much
about it and I think it's all right, Oh, not
too bad. They do the weekly drops, so I think
it was like six episodes now, so there's three more,

(19:18):
two or three more for the first season. So it's
an interesting premise. I will say. The first episode was
kind of like, Okay, what's gonna happen? The boom, something happened,
and you're for like a half hour You're like, oh
my god, what's gonna happen? So that was cool. Another
show that I am currently watching. So all right, all right, well,

(19:39):
I guess a good way to move on to Saturday
Nights man.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, will you'll be watching john Cena's final match. I
guess next Saturday at Saturday Nights main event, Washington, DC
against Gunther Surprise surprise.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
So yeah, yeah, it's Johnson is My the match, y'all.
They had a tournament that that really didn't, you know,
set the world on fire. I thought of Guther's matches.
I guess his matches were good. But Guther is advancing
to the final, or he's won the tournament. I just
say he beat L A. Knight on SmackDown. Uh, and
we'll face Johnson in his final match, and it's vowed

(20:17):
to make John Cena do the one thing he's never done,
give up.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Oh wow, oh man, the drama of it all is
gonna choke him out?

Speaker 1 (20:29):
Or is Johnson are gonna win his final match? For now?
So what do you think?

Speaker 2 (20:38):
I don't care, care you might care.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Saturday Alabama's in I don't know. They're in Alabama's nine
against Oklahoma, who they've already. I think they lost to Oklahoma.
I mean, look, they shouldn't be punished for playing the
conference title game, even though they did get smoked in
the conference title game, but they beat that team earlier.
I think that the first world. They're definitely the first
three loss team I think to get in, right, I

(21:04):
don't know, but three loss Alabama in the tournament in
the in the playoffs at number nine. But yeah, Saturday
night's main event, Gunther, John Cena, you don't care.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, maybe better phrase would be ww hasn't done a
good job of making you care.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
I think that's good because I'm a Seena guy, but
I'm not twenty twenty five seen a guy that makes sense.
I just don't care. Like, you know, the report came
out that he wanted to work more dates and don't know,
He's like, we only need you for like what the
thirty six or whatever, and.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Oh ww limited John Cena, that's so so.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Like two hundred and twenty days. I was like, I
don't think they do that much.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Anymore, right, They don't do that for the whole year, Dan.

Speaker 2 (21:52):
I don't do like house shows anymore, right, so right barely.
I don't know if that would have been worse for
like his last year, right, like if he was there
every week and then you can be like, oh, this
is seen a exhaustion type thing. But so I don't
think it's it was a bad idea to like have
him come here and there and not be there every

(22:13):
single week, but also when he was there, it just
did not like the icy title was kind of cool.
Losing it back to dom not quickly, even though I
thought it would happen. I was just kind of like
really like kind of made it an anti climatic for
me a little bit, even though I like dom as
the champ. But I don't I don't know if that,

(22:34):
you know, is better or makes us forget about what
happened earlier in the year, you know, like I still
have to include all that. Even though SummerSlam was great
and I was like, Okay, maybe moving forward, you know,
this will be better, and it just it really wasn't.
I think the Icy title OI was the only highlight
of his year other than the Summer Slam main event,

(22:56):
you know, like Lemonition Chamber was okay, the He'll turn
yeah for sure, like something to remember. But for a
whole year, twelve months and we got three possibly three
moments and maybe his last match will be you know, memorable,
Like I don't know. I mean, there's rumors that the
president will be there, So.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Just stay home, bro, stop doing this.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
What what are we gonna see? You know, like I
are we Is it gonna be something? And then you
still got like a few weeks left. Why not just
have it like the December twenty ninth raw or something.
I don't know, like why national television. Yeah, but it's like, all, no,
it's on Peacock's not even on NBC.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
It's not even on NBC, and what's the point. And
you're not even gonna be on Peacock anymore.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Unless they're putting it on NBC. But they didn't do
it the last Saturday. It's made it.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
But I would assume this one is on no NBC.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
I'll double check with my TV guide.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
I would assume so.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
But the thirteenth, right, yeah, we got Premier League soccer
in the morning for sure, and then now we got
Hurricanes and Flyers. Nope, we got Saturday on NBC Carolina
and Hurricanes at the Philadelphia Flyers. So oh yeah, so
at least in this market, MAB I don't know, Like

(24:13):
that's what it says on my guide. So yeah, it's
just gonna be on Peacock.

Speaker 1 (24:19):
Well then, uh yeah, that's why they know. What else
is wild? Miami is in the playoff and not Notre Dame.
I think because the last two spots, I'm gonna go
to those group of five top five, uh, those top
five Ring Conference champs. It's Miami. It's not gonna be
Notre Dame. Bro It's gonna be too Laan And who's
the last one man, James Madison. Uh, But yeah, I

(24:44):
think WW has definitely fumbled a lot of different ways
and a lot of different ways when it comes to
John Cena this year. I mean, the heel turn was
like oldest has potential and then it just dropped the
ball completely after that that was a complete mess. His
whole heel turn was a complete mass. His tone of
promos just didn't fit what was happening. Like it's like
they wanted you to forget about the rock somehow, I

(25:06):
forget about that whole moment, uh that happened in an
elimination chamber, and just make it about John Cena and
this supposed abusive relationship he had with the fans and
all that. That didn't go over at all with fans,
Like it just didn't stick to The WrestleMania main event
was garbage and the hold Travis Scott interference was also
garbage and terrible way to end WrestleMania. No one was

(25:29):
happy with that, and it was even worse had to
followed up such a climactic ending in twenty twenty four
that left people, i think, with higher expectations for the
WrestleMania main event.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Even Night one the day prior seth and punk stuff, right, okay, yeah,
and like obviously like two is gonna have the top that.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yeah, and it did not. It did not.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
And then they just just wiped it all away in
one promo before SummerSlam.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Which I missed by the way, because I wasn't watching.
It was smack Down and it was like and so
and then there were people like, Okay, maybe he's lying
and he'll you know, be a heel again and comes Summersland.
But didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Did not happen, just just bizarre stuff. And the babyface
run he's had since has been okay, uh, it's been there.
But then you had the brock Lesna match and Russell Palooza,
which was terrible. Bro It was like, that's the that's
the first thing he did as a babyface was going
against BRONC and the squad where he that they he

(26:30):
personally barely promoted. Brock came out towards pants and then left.
And then and then they had the match which was
also garbage. It was just it was just rough, and
I think WW for as great a job that they
did with the Bloodline and everything leading up to WrestleMania
thirty nine and WrestleMania forty. You can give them all

(26:51):
the praise you want to give them for that, they
deserve just as much criticism for John Cenas twenty twenty five,
which should have been a magical run. It should have
been easy, and I'm sure they made a lot of
money on it because they show they sold tickets and
so they sold merch, YadA, YadA, YadA. But creatively it's
done nothing to elevate ww's product this year. It's had

(27:12):
moments and maybe some spurts, but nothing consistent. And you
feel like, for as much as they try to plan
ahead with some of these things, some of these things
you can't do it all. But some of these things
they would have had a better plan for John Cena,
the suppose the greatest of all time, so at least
according to them, And it just it's they've dropped the ball.

(27:33):
And then you get to the tournament and then people
get injured left and right, and then they bring back
Dolph Zigler and Zach Ryder and it's like whoa, and
then they lose and now we got Gunther and maybe
it'll be salvaged maybe the whole year of fumbling all
the way down the field will be salvaged at the
one yard line when they finally pick up the ball

(27:53):
and say, here, Guther finish it off for us.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Maybe bumble again going to the end zone for a touchback.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Guther's got it. The balls in safe hands with Gunther,
all right, give it to goother, let him finish it
off the rest of the way. And I don't know
what the outcome is going to be. I feel like
it could be a scene to win. I don't think
that's off the table, but I would just hope that

(28:22):
Scena and can r out there at least put on
a climactic finale for seeing his career that he honestly deserves.
He deserves better than when he's gotten this year. And
if the if what he says is true that he
never really challenges creative, he just does what he's told.
If that's true, they failed John Cena this year, I'm

(28:42):
sorry he deserved better. I I I admire the idea,
I admire the thought, but the execution.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
If it's any time the politic it was that time
last year, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, I would say that as well. He gets whatever
he wants now, you know, always had to do whatever
he wants. Maybe his ideas aren't always good, but man,
it just felt like they let him down with this one.
So we'll see what happens on the thirteenth. Also on Saturday,
nice main event, we got some of a current star
going against a future star. Cody Rose, a WW champion

(29:18):
going against the NXT champion Oba Femi.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
They thought it would be Cody versus Ricky won back
the NXT title.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Yeah, and I think Oba Fem is a better option
in my opinion of disrespecting Ricky Stark's Ricky Saints, I
should say, but if you're telling me that, I think
it will make for a better match, a better story,
big guy versus a little guy, big new guy versus
you know, incumbent little guy. You could put you know,
Cody in peril in some ways as the incumbent champion
and stuff like that. The incumbent star going against the

(29:50):
new hot shot heel coming from NXT. Ricky Saints, I
think would have been a good option. But I think
Obam is a better option, and I think he's got
the honestly the higher ceiling my opinion, not to say
Ricky Saints doesn't have a high ceiling. I think his
ceiling is very high.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Friend versus friend, and everyone was like turn.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Off that as well. It would feel self aggrandizing. Yes,
I would agree with that, but I think that if
you're gonna put a spotlight on somebody on this particular stage,
to me, that spotlight between the two, you should go
to Oba Femi over Ricky Starks Ricky Saints. Damn it,
Ricky Saints like New Orleans Saints.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
And I read something already which I agree with that,
like Obie, I don't know if you do like a
Obie Oh, I don't know if you do a squash
like Brock versus Scena type thing, but you make the
main roster fear o. Yeah, like that's what you should

(30:45):
do from this match.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Well, to me, I'm kind of surprised they put the
NXT title on him because of that, because I feel
like this should be the springboy for him to go
to the main roster. But obviously if you put the
stipulation in place, he has to win the title. But
to me, yeah, to me, he should lose the title
also very quickly. And I think they got did they
have the Iron Survivor match coming up. Maybe he can

(31:07):
lose it as some type of multi man where he
doesn't even get pinned or something like that to lose
the title. So, uh, that's probably what they're gonna do. Uh,
but yeah, the spot belonged to open Femi for sure.
If you're gonna do it this way, Speaking of early
January or twenty twenty six, where open Femi could potentially

(31:28):
lose the title, we're gonna have a world Heavyweight title
match on the raw. The first raw of the new
year is going to be seeing Punk defending his world
championship against bron Breaker. Who. Boy, did he cut a
promo Monday? Did you see that promole Monday?

Speaker 2 (31:43):
I was like, okay, thank thank you for you know,
having something that I could watch it be like, oh man,
this is good because it's been a while.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
Yeah. And the way he cut it, the way he
kind of has that spurt of intensity when he just
rips off his jacket and then talks stuff like that,
I think that's hilarious.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
I still can't take his name seriously though, like can
you make bron Steiner or something like, I'm still a
broad Breaker with it's I'm getting like second hand embarrassment.
At this point, this guy is like legit, the legit psychopath,

(32:27):
you know when he when he's on the mic, man,
it's great. As a wrestling character, it's great, and I
do enjoy seeing his rise, and I honestly think he
probably should be Punk on roll, you know more eyeballs
is always good. Not you don't need to wait till
WrestleMania for something like that, but you know, especially if

(32:50):
SAT's gonna be back. But by that I don't know
his time frame, but uh yeah, finally giving me something
to like look forward to one row.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Yeah, yeah, we'll see, We'll see what happens on January fifth.
But yeah, that promo. I was like, I think bron
Breakers should have more promo time, Like if he's gonna.

Speaker 2 (33:09):
Like okay, at this point, maybe he doesn't need Paul
Hayman anymore, you know, like he I think he'd do
pretty well without you know, people a group at this point.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
I mean, he's also hasn't done it a lot, so
you know, you don't want to overexpose him to it.
I think part of the reason why this had so
much impact, that's because he doesn't talk that often. Hit right,
you know, But what he said, though was I was
like this, this is tremendous. I can't wait for this match.
And also to see him probably speared the crap out

(33:41):
to see him punk. He know on kind of big
time on backstage. Oh see, you could have promo with
the big guys Pam wham, get hit with a spear,
Am I one of the big dogs. Now that's great,
that's great stuff. That's great stuff. So yeah, bron Breaker,
see him punk. January fifth, Monday Night Raw, the first
one of the new year. Will we see a new

(34:02):
world heavyweight champion? Nicks thinks probably should. I feel like
an ideal world, not really an ideal world. I think
it could be that should be a good time to
do it, but I feel like I just wwe just
doesn't feel like they're gonna do something that drastic on
the Raw, and it feels like they're gonna play it

(34:23):
too safe again. And it's his first, really like a
first real world title opportunity to write like, I don't
know if he's had another world title match in his
career yet, so they might go like this is kind
of the lesson for him because remember when he's the
IC champion, he had to like learn a lesson of
like of not overlooking someone and not because he overlook

(34:45):
Samme's ain and thought he's gonna run through Samme's and
Sam's ain't got him. And the next time he went
to againt Samme's a and he ran through him. Okay,
So maybe they try to teach him that lesson again
or try to show that tell that story again with
Bron Breaker that is, motions can kind of get in
the way or his arrogance can kind of get in
the way of him reaching his highest potential, and then

(35:08):
he maybe he learned to you know, he figures it
out later on. But I think if you want to
shake things up, which I think both shows are in
need of a little bit of a shakeup of some
some type of you know, surprise Bron breakup being see
him punk and haven't seen him Punk Chase after that
makes sense to me. So but we'll see though, because

(35:28):
you it can't count on WW to be that spontaneous.

Speaker 2 (35:31):
No, And I would love for I do like the
Swerve and Hangman dynamic on aw right now, like sort
of teaming up, But could they do the same thing
with Punk and Seth against the Vision, Like I wonder
because maybe if Seth comes back and obviously the Vision
turned on him, and Punk and Seth now have a

(35:53):
common enemy, they could kind of mimic that. And yeah,
I don't like copying, you know, storylines from company to company,
but I think that's something that can work here for me,
that can make me like interested a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
We'll see, We'll see what goes down.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
I feel like Puck and Seth are the two guys
that would figure out how to sell us that they
could team with each other and us be like, Okay,
that makes sense because they're wrestling guys.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah, I mean that that. I should say. They've done
these strange bedfellows story before plenty of times and to
varying degrees of results in the past. They just kind
of recently did it with Alex Alexa Bliss and Charlotte

(36:44):
before they gotten the same page, so it's not like
it's something that's foreign to WW. So I can easily
see that happening at some point, probably soon, because you
have to imagine Seth when he comes back. You know,
if he comes back before Wrestlmingia, he's gonna go against
the Vision, you would think, So he's gonna need some friends.

(37:06):
You can have an unlikely friend and see him punk.

Speaker 2 (37:08):
How about that?

Speaker 1 (37:09):
You know, the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Uh?
Real quick as before we move on to our deep
dive here. Uh, Alabama in didn't even drop a spot
in the rankings that they're getting blown out, bro, didn't
even drop a spot. Notre Dame out. That's crazy. How

(37:33):
much leeway and how much benefit of the doubt does
Alabama get?

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Bro?

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Like, come on, like, I get that Alabama shouldn't be punished,
and they head to head also matters. That's why I
would I agree with putting Miami and had a Notre
Dame because they beat Notre Dame, but Alabama again and
they're not don't even dropped. Sorry for the international listeners

(38:02):
out there, this is college football stuff. We go real
crazy over college football here in the United States, unlike
anywhere else in the world. And for whatever reason, for
the century plus that we've had college football in this country,
we've never had a good system of figuring out a
national champion.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Never so wasn't there didn't last year. The top the
conference champions have the top four seeds, and now this year,
because the Ohio State lost, they will not be five, there's
two right now.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Yeah they're two. Yeah, but the top five ranks conference champions,
regardless of where there's a group of five of Power four,
they're in the tournament period, they're in. That's why Twu
Lane and James Madison are in, mainly because Alabama got
beat the daylights beat out of him yesterday, but somehow
it didn't move fall. Also, Virginia just blew it against Duke,

(38:50):
so because they would probably would have been in as
the fifth rink or maybe the fourth ring conference champion,
and instead it's James Madison and two Lane. So people
think are going to get but maybe they won't. That's
the beauty of it college basketball. We have upsets every year.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
Last year, would Lane of James Madison been three and four?

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Then? No, No, I don't think it was. I don't
think it was. I think it just worked out that
way last.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
Year because I think it's not like a college football
playoff buff by any means. But I remember the top
four seeds last year being.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
They do the top five conference champions get in because
they want generally, I think they want one group of
five team in, right, because you're thinking, I guess you
would think that all four of the Power four conference
champs would be ranked in the top twenty five at
least on the top fifteen, unlike Duke, who's not in

(39:43):
the top fifteen. Bro, you didn't expect Duke to be
that conference champion. Good job Virginia and Miami for that.
Miami is lucky that they got in because Virginia won it,
they probably won't be in, wouldn't be it. So yeah,
it's it's still a flawed system. We're lucky to even
have twelve teams in the playoff. Honestly, where the other

(40:06):
levels have I think twenty four team playoffs FCS and
Division two and Division.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Three and in Villanova yeah three the quarterfinals.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Yeah, and the FCF playoffs. So yeah, it's it's strange.
I hope to Lane and James Madison went to Lane
and James Madison go Green Wave. Okay, but yes, let's
move on now from the current day nonsense of wrestling
and college football to our deep dive Patreon in Quest

(40:36):
Survivor Series two thousand and two, Nick, are you ready.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Let's go? I did not. I don't have any clips,
but yeah, I'm ready.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
All right.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
This is, by the way, in my last box of
VHS tapes, box number eleven, tape number nine. I have
Survivor series too that I did not watch this for this.
I watched it on Peacock. But I have Survivor Series
two thousand, the Monday Night Raw after that November eighteenth,
two thousand and two, and then a random SmackDown November fourth,

(41:07):
two thousand and five right after that on one tape.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
So man mishmosh, dude, I was.

Speaker 2 (41:13):
Looking for tapes when I didn't have any like length tapes.
I was looking for whatever I could to tape, you know,
on four oh five oh six, And if I knew
I had room left on the tapes I already had,
I would tape like to the raw or SmackDown episodes
after that, even ECW on Sci Fi when I was on.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Side, Oh my god. Yeah, so man us Siko.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
So in a way I kind of like, ah, should
I watch this on the VCR. But again I think
I mentioned it before. The sound isn't great on much
of the VHS as I have, just because you know
the film and the time. You know they're not all
in cases or covers. So I just decided to play

(41:59):
it safe a lot on peacock, But yeah, I don't
know if they're ready at it's I don't know.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
Well, as far as I could tell, there weren't very
few that I did notice one and we'll talk about it,
but let's do it. Survivor Series two thousand and two
took place on November seventeenth, two thousand and two. The
show emanated from Madison Square Garden in New York City,
better known as the world's most famous arena. Oddly enough,
it's an arena I've never been to for a sporting event,

(42:29):
which is right up the street. But you would think
that you would have caught her something there. I've been
underneath it to catch a train here and there. But
like Jackie Channing Rush Hour, I've always wanted to go
to Madison Square Garden. You remember rush Hour at all?
I do remember the outtakes.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
I think the first three I think there.

Speaker 1 (42:53):
Were more than that, right, No, there's only three, only three.
I'm really a fan of the first two. The third
one do Away to throw on that's my favorite. But oh,
I think the first one's my favorite, but the.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
Second so I might have to do a rewatch.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
But funny enough, there's a fourth one coming out. Oh really,
And apparently the word on the street is all due
to our current US president, So why he got caught
up in that? But there we are. But the closest
I don't know. We'll see, We'll see Chris Tucker, Man.
We gotta have Chris Tucker and Jackie Chando too good.

(43:30):
The closest I could have come to being in Madison
Square Garden was back in twenty thirteen when WrestleMania was
in MetLife Stadium. If you recall, WW held the Hall
of Fame ceremony at MSG that year, but I did
not cover it. I only covered the show itself. But
do you remember who went into the Hall of Fame
that year twenty thirteen.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Twenty thirteen, Yes, our president was one of them. Well yeah,
but the headliner, the headliner was it? Damn uh? The
headliner in twenty thirteen, twenty thirteen.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
It's good class.

Speaker 2 (44:11):
Darn it was Paul Bird one of them.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
No, that was twenty oh it might have been actually,
because that's yeah, that was the year that Ye had
passed away. I don't know if he went to the
Hall of Fame. He think he went in twenty fourteen.
I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
You might I'm not ringing a bell.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Well, we got Bruno San Martino, Bob.

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Hey, Bob Becklan, guy who attacked you right, No, it
wasn't chicken Wing, thank goodness, Thank goodness, it wasn't the
chicken wing.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
Who man, I would have sworded my drawers that day.
It was chicken wing. Uh, just a fun headlock with
Bob Beckland in the press box of uh, what's the
name of that stadium, Levi Stadium. But the Super Bowl
is going to be this year. I don't know if
I'm going to be there this year, but we'll see
h Foley into the Hall of Fame, the Good brother

(45:03):
Book of t and trist Stratus in class I think,
so yeah, that's the big names, at least one of
the big names. But I couldn't possibly afford to go
today to the MSG for like a Knicks game or
a Rangers game. Are you crazy? And I've never had

(45:24):
to cover something there since twenty thirteen, so even though
the Sixers have played the Knicks in the playoffs since
I've been covering sporting events only a couple of years back.
But I only go to the big events apparently, not
first round playoff series. I guess so I didn't send
me to Madison's Madison Square Garden for the Knick series
at all. I did go to the to the games

(45:44):
here in Philly, but not in MSG. But I don't
think we've ever talked about the history of MSG. What's
made it the world's most famous arena? I guess right.
It originally opened in eighteen seventy nine, and it is,
of course the home to the New York Knicks and
the New York Rangers. It's also hosted a just a
slew of conscious with the biggest names you could ever imagine. Uh,

(46:06):
you say it, you think it. They've been there, uh,
and they've hosted multiple popes and Pope John Paul a
Second in nineteen seventy five and then was de be
forty years later, Pope Francis in twenty fifteen. Remember Pope
Francis is going around the country making to remember when
he shut down Philly for like four days and in
Jel little Okra four got caught speeding on the bridge

(46:27):
when it was shut down for the Pope.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
I have a T shirt that has the Pope on
it with a spatula that was like, uh, you know,
Pope Love's grilling or something like that. Yeah, Pope, that
wasn't the cat. That wasn't the cat. That wasn't the cat.

Speaker 3 (46:44):
What.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
But I went through some older clothes I have, and
that was I have one with the Pope when he
came to Philly, loving barbecue or something like that. I
gotta go. I gotta check it out again.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
I gotta like, man, I imagine that the knockoff T
shirts people were selling on the Ben Franklin Parkway when
the Pope came.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
And I don't even know how I got it, by
the way, I don't know where I got it or
when I got it, but I got it.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
I can only imagine what it was like. I wasn't
down there because I remember they told us to work
from home, which was like back in twenty fifteen, a
big deal, like, oh we got to work from home.
Oh my god, because the Pope is here. We don't
have to come downtown because downtown Sena City, Philadelphia was
shut down.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
You could remember everything Dan shut down.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, I mean shut down, like like cement barricades up
in Senna City, Like he couldn't cross these streets at all.
But yeah, they got the Pope in Madison Square Garden
back in seventy five and twenty fifteen. But because the
show is in MSG, WW used as short aisle, which
is always one of my favorites. Love to see in

(47:52):
the short aisle and MSG always mixed for a unique
visual and we got that on this show as well.
For Survivor series in two thousand and two. But where
are we in two thousand and two? It is a
very very interesting time. Actually, we've covered some interesting time
periods lately for our deep dives and this one is

(48:14):
another one. Uh. First, this is the first Survivor series
known as WWE Survivor Series as it was known views prior,
as of course w w F Survivor Series. But the
World Wildlife Federation has something to say about that. Uh.
And they said change the names. They said, get the

(48:35):
f out Those shirts weren't w w that was the
w w F. The real w w F saying get.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
The World Wildlife was getting all the all the the
money from that.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
The World Wildlife Federation is the World Wildlife Fund. Wrong F.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
You know what they should have done. They should have
changed the F two federation after.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
Just the b petty and we are the real federation
over here, we are the Federation of Domination.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
The f o D.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
All right, it's us OD.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Oh boy, I just.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
Love how WWE put their marching orders on their shirt
to make money off it. That is what they told
us to do. We will make money.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
But the funniest part is I was like, oh, attitude
raband get the f out. They're gonna be even more.
They're gonna start cursing. Man, like this is crazy. I
was thinking.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Meanwhile, it was litigation, somebody begging the gavel and the
judgment was ruled and they had to get the f
out as a result. But WWE s as it is
known now in two thousand and two, is in the
middle of a pretty major transition when it comes to
its roster. Okay, because gone at this time are Steve Austin.

(49:53):
He's on a little bit of a sabbatical.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
As they said.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Ever said why he did it? He just took his ball,
went home like a baby, not to say like, yeah,
w E. Vince tried to book him to lose the
brock for no reason and on raw for nothing, and
that's why he's like, no, I'm good, bro I'm going
home now. Nah. He took his ball. We went home
like a baby. That's pretty much what they said on

(50:22):
their own television.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
Ross is like best friend at the time. I guess right, well,
for all intents and purposes, go on TV WILL Confidential
and say took his ball, went home.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
That's it. That's what he did. He quit on us.
We needed him, and he quit on Usty much what Jr. Said.
Had his own home, heie do that to him. That's crazy.
But they also are they are missing the Rock because
he's off in Hollywood. So now the main event scene

(50:52):
features a young upstart by the name of brock Lessner right,
and we got other up and comers such as John
Senor and Randy Orton shouting Benjamin and Batista. They're waiting
the wings. We got a cameo from Randy Yorton on
the show, which made them like complete dewed by the way,
but not to mention all of the veteran talent that's
already on the roster, the established talent like Triple A's undertaker,

(51:15):
Booker t Chris, Jericho, Caine, Rob Van Damn, Big Show,
Sean Michaels and more so. But we're also in the
midst of a brand split for the very first time,
which in twenty twenty five is barely your thing because
like the way the talent goes in between the shows
these days, it's like I don't even know which who
belongs to what anymore, Like they just go back and forth.

(51:37):
But back in two thousand was great, right, Make the
brand split great again? Okay, because back in two thousand
and two they were still holding firm with it with
brand specific pay per views and brand specific referees with
their colored shirts. The SmackDown shirts were blue for the referees.
The ROLL kept their black and white stripes on the shirts.
I think they should have changed the shirts too. I'm

(51:58):
glad the WW got rid of the black and stripes,
the like foot locker employees. Uh, and you think about it,
not many referees actually wear the stripes outside of football reps,
I guess, but basketball refs and I guess hockey rests
do too, I forget. But besides that, Uh, they had
their own announced teams, but now everything kind of just
blends together. And I know they have separate announced teams now,
but even they kind of blend together, and.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
They move them around so often that there's really no
one you could say is the voice of raw or
the voice of SmackDown.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
That's also because of the schedule, Like they have Joe test.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Tour, they're doing their own doing too.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yes, yes, they don't have to hire Joe testa Tour,
but they do, and they know when they do hire
Joe Testa Tour. He's going to be calling college football
games on Saturday afternoons, so it would not behoove him
to be calling SmackDown on Fridays. He needs to move
be moved to Monday. Right he's calling it. He's calling
Raw right now, but in the off season, then they
move him to SmackDown and Jim. Then Michael Cole goes

(52:56):
to Raw and YadA YadA, which is probably gonna happen
soon because he's probably calling a bowl game, i'd assume
at some point, but there's no guarantee that's on a Saturday.
They play bowl games pretty much any day of the week,
I feel like, so I would assume that if they're
going to make that switch again, it'll happen relatively soon
because college football is don and I don't think he's
their lead announcer on ESPN Andy. I think it's Man,

(53:19):
it's not. If it's not Joe Test, it has to be.
Uh Man, he's called Monday Night Football too that I
can't remember his name.

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Uh Man, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I'm trying. I just wonder not I got it, Like
my keyboard is so loud now, so, uh Sean McDonough,
I think it's the number one guy on ESPN now
McDonough yeah, Oh, actually no, I take that back. It's
Chris Fowler, Ker Kerbstreak and Holly Row. It's the top team,
but McDonough is the second team. So yeah, we'll see

(53:50):
Chris Fowler and McDonald take over soon and Joe Test
will get something that they got. The College Football Playoff
coming up, so I'm sure Joe Test will be calling
those games. But back in two thousand and two, okay,
there was a real line of delineation between Raw and SmackDown.
At least I felt like it. At least they took
some effort into making it feel that way. But what's

(54:11):
headlining this particular event in two thousand and two a
traditional Savivor Series match? Heavens no, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
I got no time for that, nor absolutely on raw.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Nor in twenty twenty five. Okay, well we didn't have
that on some Survivor series. We had two war Games
matches and some singles matches and that was it. Four
matches and it was no case show.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
I had the Survivor series match on the SmackDown, though,
I guess with.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
The old logo, which pisses me off.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Oh they did do that.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Yeah, bring back the old logo or the one from
the nineties that like the mid nineties I like that
one too. With the Savior series where it's stacked on
top of each other, from like ninety five ninety six.
I liked that one too.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Why I don't know over the one they used the
classic one.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
The classic one is still the best, but I saidtle
for that one too, the mid nineties one. Anything's better
than the one they have now.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
I like, I liked the obviously old one, the ninety
six ninety seven. I like the ninety seven one that
had it had it was like the ninety six one,
same design. It was just red and the red looks
so much better on that logo than the yellow, So
I would I would settle for that as well.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Yeah, and then you got two thousand and two, which
we're talking about right now. Unique logo, but they were
going for, like I want to say, unique because it
was kind of the similar logo that used for like
this time period, like two thousand, two thousand and one,
two thousand and two.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
Yeah, they like tweeked it a little bit.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Yeah, it was like some type of like crosshairs theme
to it. It was kind of strange. I didn't get it.
I don't think WWE has ever really got Survivor series
actually is like I was supposed to represent. I think
that's why the branding has always been strange in the
last twenty five years. It's like, what is it? Actually?
How about you arch the letters?

Speaker 2 (55:59):
All right?

Speaker 1 (56:02):
I don't know what to do with this.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
I don't even know, Like it didn't even have a
something you can think about when you what was it?
The first one was an eighty seven, so if you
were like it was a different logo, then it was
similar to the one in ninety six, ninety seven the
original logo, and then ninety eight, I believe was the

(56:24):
traditional one that we loved so much. But it doesn't
really give you a story of the either, you know,
of the event. It's just like, oh, this looks sweet
like that. There's no theme, you know behind It was
just just the way the old logos in general were
so simple makes them so good.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
I feel like people were just like thinking too much
of what they could do with these logos as we
moved to the late nineties and to the aughts, just yeah,
don't enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
And I think we've kind of come back around to
almost them. So it's like almost too simple now over simplification.
But I think the happy medium is like simple, but
some pozass to it, like the color of the arts and.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
Stuff like the Wrestle Paloza logo. I was like, this
is pretty cool. I didn't mind it.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
It was fine for something they did just through together.
It was fine for what it was. They don't know
what that branding is neither, just like whatever letters. But
we absolutely did not have a Savior series match on
this show. In two thousand and two. We got elimination matches,
which is kind of still sort of the theme you know,

(57:38):
for Survivor series. But Vince McMahon was willing to kick
the traditional Survivor series match of the curb way back
in two thousand and two for a much more exciting
cage match, not war games elimination chamber. The kind of
the answer to wargames. Vince said, Hey, y'all want war
games so bad, but like I didn't create it, I'm

(57:58):
gonna do my own thing. Okay, how about this. I
got some better than war games, elimination chamber, and everybody's like,
it's cool and all, but when you get out of power,
we're gonna make a limit. We're gonna make war games.
This is fine, but it also hurts. So war games
are coming back. Wait just wait, wait about twenty years.
We'll wait. But what in the hell is an elimination

(58:20):
chamber match? In storyline, it is an Eric Bischoff creation,
when obviously in the reality it is not. But it's
a massive structure with allegedly ten tons of that was
allegedly ten tons and featured miles and miles of chain.
According to the video packages, they would run.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Two months into his tenure, by the way, that's raw GM.
So all of a sudden he comes up with this,
so just four months in okay.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
And they created it in four months. That's a quick
that's a quick build job, bro. For as much as
this structure comprised of, with all the steel and the
miles of chain. But I just remember those commercial those
like ving yes, they were running. It made it seem
so menacing, and it kind of was in reality. They
weren't lying in this case. But it's a match for

(59:10):
six people where two people start out while the other
fourhead pods around the ring who kill?

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Can't they just enter as their turn comes like that.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Don't think too much. This is like war games, but
not war games.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
Can't they chill like in the locker room until they're ready, like, oh,
they got to stand.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
There, pods, baby pods. I gotta see it all. They
gotta see it. They gotta get the visual. You don't
know who's coming next. Neither. It's a mystery watch out
and there's chambers. A new person will enter during timed intervals,
and the last person standing would be the world heavyweight champion.
So yeah, there's some similarities between elimination chamber and war

(59:50):
games with the timed intervals and not everybody's in the
match at once, but instead of waiting til everybody's in
the ring to start the match beyond so to speak,
of war games, the matches we're going in pin falls
count right away, right, so you can feasibly have someone
eliminated five minutes into the match before anybody else gets
into the ring. It's it is a unique concept to wrestling, though,

(01:00:12):
which is something that's not easy to do.

Speaker 2 (01:00:15):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
You can argue that this is probably the last cool,
unique cage match that's been created in wrestling. Think of
a more since the Elimination Chamber of a unique and
successful cage concept in wrestling. That was it the terror

(01:00:36):
Dome or whatever they had in TNA. They had like
a domed cage or whatever. Not the electrified cage they
had in TNA that was supposed to just send shock
waves of your body when you touched it. I can't
think of any and it's become oh, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
No, I don't. A lot of guts is basically war games.
It's war games, a new creation. So yeah, in terms
of UH, a thing that surrounds the ring and steel
Pujabi prison, I don't think that works.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
I guess it was the definition of success exactly exactly.
They had two or three Punjabi prisons, I guess, and
they stole toys. Maybe that's success in me.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
When you chose those words on purpose, I know that's why.
That's definitely not UH. One that may clamor.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
To see absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I do think the rules of like escaping one cage
and then escaping the other. I get it. No, it's
on a cage, you know, Like that's the same it's
the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
You gotta escape twice. Yeah, that's silly. And yeah, Punjabi
prison I think I've talked about this in the podcast.
A horrible watch in person, worse.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Than on TV. We were both there for the one
in filling in. Can you see anything?

Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
If you're sitting on the floor for a poon Jabi
prison match, you see nothing. It was one of.

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
The worst person waiting for a body to start climbing
over the outside cage.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
And then the Great Colleague came out and it's like,
what in the hell?

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I think everyone's here too, And I was like, what
are we? Why are we hearing the Great Colleague?

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Because something exciting happened?

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
W W was so bad back then, Oh somebody, we
haven't seen it a while.

Speaker 1 (01:02:24):
That might be the worst show I've ever been to.
It's bad.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Aground one of the raws before, uh before one of
the wrest of Mys was pretty bad. But yeah, yeah, that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Was pretty bad. Yeah, that was probably the worst pay
per view for sure. And I haven't been to like
a ton of them, but like I've been to my
share uh here in Philly and.

Speaker 2 (01:02:43):
Beyond fifteens, we got the Triple Thread at least, yes,
we got that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
I don't like. We had aj Styles and Kevin Owens
in that show and it was bad.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
We also had the USO's and I think New Day
which was fine, but it wasn't the best match. It
was a bad show for a rough time in the world.
As Fargo sitting there, as it was known back then
up until recently, back on twenty seventeen, were sitting on
the floor being like what is That's probably why we
had four seats because they couldn't sell tickets to the
show because we were sitting on the floor like, oh

(01:03:13):
look at us. We fancy huh. They're like, no, you
get to watch the poot Joppy prison brother, that's what
you're here for. We need some people on the floor
as sea fillers for when the poot Jappy prison match
come up and everybody leave you. We need somebody here.
But back in two thousand and two, it was brand new,

(01:03:34):
which meant that well, I was to say it's pretty
successful and that it is its own pay per view.
Now it's a marquee event on ww's calendar. It's still struggling,
struggling to sell tickets too, because that's the reason why
the Rock showed up last year. So how successful is it?
And it's not even called Elimination Chamber certain countries, so

(01:03:56):
it's varying degrees of success there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
Would have liked them to stick with the No Way
Out the name.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
But yeah, instead of just elimination Chamber. But here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
You could say the Elimination Chamber match, but you could
take her with the name of the actual match. But
like the actual event series.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Yeah, why did do a Survivor series? But back in
two thousand and two it was brand new, which meant
they were going to be some kinks to work out
for the wrestlers.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
The problem was for them that the structure was unforgiving
as hell. The rings.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
I loved it, but I loved it as a viewer.

Speaker 1 (01:04:35):
The ring was surrounded by steal Great like actual Steel
Great that had zero all caps zero give you landed
and you stopped.

Speaker 2 (01:04:47):
Okay. It was like the raw ramp, you know, this
backdown ramp pretty much steel ramps.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
But they were doing one of those bumps per match
they're out here. This is what it is right this
in this match. Uh, the chain that you know, the
wall of the structure is made of also didn't have
that much game into it. Okay, that chain looked painful.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Okay, ericoff Man, what.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
A what a demonic figure this guy is? Uh, let's
just say it wasn't built with the wrestler's safety in mind.
A chance beyond that. Beyond that, with this match, we
got a pretty big, no pun intended ww title match,
which is just a one on one encounter between brock

(01:05:34):
Lesnar and Big Show. Uh, with what I got a
lot to say. I got a lot to say about
that boy. But and a bunch of other matches that
Urn and Survivor Cities matches but again have eliminations an
elimination aspect to them. But we talked about I said,
where were you in two thousand and two as putting
my nose in? Did you have this on tape? Which
you said you did?

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Right, But just by chance, I was not watching week
to week. I thought Sean Michael's being here was a joke.
I thought they weren't interested in furthering. Like again, remember
in this time period, I'm not a brock lessnar guy
because I'm just like, well, a big Muscley guy was

(01:06:15):
world champ, Like nothing's changed. They're not given RVD as
shot because RVD was one of my favorites back then,
and you know the end of A one. He was
really popular when he had the whole Alliance thing, and
then he was going against Austin and they didn't give
him the title, and it's like, like what They're never
going to give these guys that world titles? Man Like.

(01:06:39):
It was just so frustrating for me as a fan.
So in this time period, I'm a month or two
and in my senior year of high school, and it's
just really becoming difficult to watch this stuff week after week.
So I'm still taping it here and there, but I'm
not watching it every weekend. As we go on, you'll
see like why or how I fought certain things going

(01:07:02):
into it. But I did order it because I was like,
you know what, like even if I don't watch it,
at least I'll have it on tape. And I don't
even remember watching most of this show honestly, like the
night it happened. So I wasn't even like into the
elimination chamber aspects. I was just like, I was almost

(01:07:22):
like now where nothing they're doing was interesting me because
having Shawn Michaels in the main event with like Triple
H two thousand and two, back then it was the
same thing as like ninety eight ninety nine. To me,
I was like, what are they doing? Like, what what
are they doing new? You know? And it felt like

(01:07:42):
they weren't doing anything, even though you said this was
their attempt to try new things. But for me as
a fan, I didn't feel that like coming through the
screen at all. I was just like, ah, they're just
because there's no real competition, they're just doing all this crap.
The place is gonna be the champ no matter what.
Blah blah blah blah blah. I don't care. So that's

(01:08:06):
kind of what I was like. You know, I was
semi sabbatical at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Semi sabbatical. Either you're on sabbatical or you're not semi sabbatical.
I think everybody would love to be semi sabbatical. I work,
but I don't. I work when I want, but I'm
on a break. But I'll holler at y'all when i'm ready.
But then I'm gonna leave when I want exactly what
I was doing, and I asked me why I'm leaving.
I'm gonna leave, but I call you when I'm ready

(01:08:32):
to work again. But I reserved the right to leave
whenever and not call back. But where was I in
two thousand and two. I was not on sabbatical. I
was watching every week of this nonsense. Did not order
this pay per view when it happened? I remember, because
we didn't have the money.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
No, not because you didn't find it interesting?

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
No, no, no, I would have loved to have ordered every
pay per view, but my mom was like forty dollars
a month. Crazy. But but I remember playing this game,
playing this match a lot, and smacking her comes to pain.
It was a lot of fun. And of course I've
watched the show over the years since it's happened, but
still just a regular wrestling fan, wondering what in the

(01:09:17):
world is going on with all this nonsense? What is
this elimination chamber thing? It make it sound so scary,
it's so terrifying. Yeah, and I guess for the wrestlers
it was at the end of the day. Let's before
we get into the show itself. Let's go to our
patron for this week. It is the good brother Chris Johnson.

(01:09:39):
So Chris, you get to make a cameo on the
show because you made your request and you follow the
directions on Patreon. So Chris, it is your time. Take
it away.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
What's going on? Straight Shooters? You bought Chris Johnson back again?
Give you my thoughts on my deep dive from Survivor
Shoots from two thousand and two. Before going on my
thoughts for the show, I wanted to say thank you
to you guys, and I showed my appreciation for you know,
your thoughts and your prayers and consolences with my father
passing away a couple months back, it really meant a
lot to me and I genuinely appreciate it. Much love
to you guys. So the match of the night for me,

(01:10:11):
I mean kind of goes without saying in my opinion.
It was the first ever elimination chamber match for the
World Heavyweight Championship, Triple H defending against Kane RVD, Jericho
Booker T and Heartbreak Hitshawn Michaels. RVD and Triple H
started the match. Triple H was the first one to
taste the steal the chamber, he got back dropped onto
it by RVD following an attempted pedigree. There were a
couple of spots since my match that looked pretty gnarly.

(01:10:31):
RVD Monkey flipping Triple H on the steal, RVD acting
like he was Spider Man, jumping and grabbing out of
the change. After an attempt to crossbody or a dive
from the top turn buckle to the outside, Jericho was
released from the chamber first. RVD was eliminated by Booker
T after he was hit with a mister dropkick after
hitting Triple H with the five star frock flat from

(01:10:51):
on top of one of the pods. King then came
into the match after Jericho and Booker T Rex shop
choke slamming people left and right, dominating as he usually does.
Jericho Woul then eliminated Booker T after Can hit him
with a choke slam, and then Alliance Alt afterwards. HBK
was released last from his pod. Cain was eliminated after
Sweetchen Music of pedigree and Alliansalt. HBK eliminated Jericho after

(01:11:12):
hitting him with Sweet Chin Music with Triple aging the
walls of Jericho HBK would eventually end up winning the
World Heavyweight Championship after Sweetschin Music after countering a second
pedigree attempt. Fantastic match. Best match of the night by far,
not even close. I do have an honorable mention for
match of the night, which was the triple threat match
for the ww Tag team titles with Edge and Ray
Masterio defending against Angle and Chris Pinoit and Los Guerreros.

(01:11:34):
I thought Ray mas Ciro's interest was pretty cool coming
through a little elevator onto the stage with the pyro.
Ray saved Edge from submitting to the cross face and
ankle lock combination. Ben Wan Angle were eliminated after Edge
hit his spear on Ben Wah for the pen. A
double team Hurricane Rona from the onto Eddie Garrow from
Raymondsteria was pretty cool, as in one of the pretty
cool spots in the match. Losqurels ended up winning the

(01:11:56):
tag titles with the lasso from El Paso submission move
and then I was great to tap out. My worst
match of the night, honestly was the w B title
match between brock Lesner and The Big Show. It was slow.
Brockett a nice double leg on the Big Show early
on Brockett in f five onto the Big Show, Haymon
pulled the ref out, then Show won the title. Big
Show won the w W title after choke slamming brock
Lesen on to a chair, Haymon officially Cementa's turn the

(01:12:19):
I do haven't hit a gym for the show. I
thought the Cruiserweight title match between Billy Kidman and Jamie
Noo was really really good, with Kidman winning the title
with the shooting star press. I thought it was a
really good match. My favorite non wrestling happening from this
night I got two one was the backstage promo between
Angle and Ben Benoit. I thought that was hilarious, and
then of course you got Scott Skynder's debut. My worst
non wrestling happening was the promo with Chris Newitsky and

(01:12:41):
Matt Hardy. I thought it was boring, kind of corny,
you know, typical heels making fun of the city there
and it wasn't really much to it. The spot of
the night for me was Jeff Hardy swanton onto Rosie
from the mezzanine at MSG, falling on to Rosie through
a table, causing an elimination worst spot of the night.
I had a couple I had Race slipping on the
top rope after you tried to jump and leap over.
He landed on the back of his head. Didn't look good.

(01:13:02):
And the five star Fox Plass already hit on du
Triple H causing his need to go into Triple H's throat,
causing him to get hurt. Some random thoughts from this show.
Jericho's dad played for the New York Rangers at one
point in his career, so Madison Square Garden tie there.
I love the short out for the show. The motion
graphics of the paper were kind of cool, little nostalgia.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
Thing for me.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
I really like how RVD sold the DDT every time
he got hit with it. Taz asking Michael Cole how
many times he was gonna say the rules for the
tag title match was kind of funny. And the theme
song for the show always by Saliva, I thought was
a pretty good song. Trade Shooters. Appreciate you guys allowed
me back on the greatest wrestling podcast out today. Hope
you guys are up and safe in Philly doing your thing.
Catch you guys on soon on the other side, Peas.

Speaker 1 (01:13:42):
Thanks again to Chris Johnson for his patronage. You can
be just like him making cameo he on the Straight
Shooters if you also go to Patreon dot com Slash
Shooters Radio, put in your request and we will fulfill it.
I feel like we're going to agree on some things
like we typically do, but sometimes we disagree on him
things too. Let's find out as we're going along here

(01:14:02):
and I deep dive. The show begins with a video
package that had Eric Bischoff voicing over it, specifically on
the part about the elimination chamber, and it made it
sound so serious like someone was going to potentially pass
away as a result of this match, which I mean,
damn it happened. Someone almost did at some point. We

(01:14:27):
also get to hear the theme song of the show,
which is always by Saliva, which was five. All this
Saliva stuff back in the day. I loved it. I'm
not a rock I'm not condo sore, but for me,
wrestling provided my rock listening back in the day, and
it worked for me. Ww did a good job making

(01:14:48):
any songs sound great for me. And maybe I don't
know how people feel. If you're a rock purist, how
you feel about Saliva or the song Always or the
song King of My World that they did for Chris Jericho.
Maybe it's just wrestling nostalgia for me. But don't again,
don't take my opinion for it. I'm not a rock purist.
I loved it, so I'm just like people who are like, oh,

(01:15:11):
I don't listen to a lot of rap, but I
like flow Rider, And I'm looking at you like, really,
that's your guy. You're probably looking at me the same way.
But damn it. We all have our lived experiences, okay,
and that's mine. In between jay Z and Juvenile and
Jadakiss crept in some Saliva here and there, and that's

(01:15:33):
how it was.

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
I liked Saliva back then.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
They had some hits, right, they were pretty popular at least.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
I just didn't understand the use of it and wrestling
with like themes and it's like, okay, like I was
so used to, Oh, this song has certain lyrics that
mimic this or make you think about that. I didn't
really get that from Saliva.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
But the hooks, that's the hooks.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
Maybe I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
Maybe that was what sucked me in. I don't know,
but they had two performances on the show. So because
ww really liked them for some reason. I don't know
who ever talked about their catalog or anything like that,
but it has it has some They had some some run, right,
they had a good time. Right, they had a good
run back in the day, they did. Uh. But you

(01:16:26):
know I heard them other places too, uh, you know
in pop culture. Wasn't just WWH. But I thought it
was fired. And I'm glad it was on Peacock because
Peacock sometimes, depending on the event, won't have the song.
They'll have some generic knockoff version of the song rock
song number twelve in the library they'll play over the

(01:16:47):
real one and it's like, oh, that sucks. But this
one they had all the real music, which was which
was fun.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
I guess then it was just like, you know what,
you could use our stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Maybe they don't know, maybe maybe their lawyers haven't found
out yet. Maybe when they do, like hold on, now,
you know, oh it's some money, cough it up, honey. Okay,
all right, that's that's they got a sassy black lawyer
for some reason. Cough up the money, honey, Cough up
the moneyn As we said. But let's get into our

(01:17:21):
format for survivor Cities two thousand and two. We got
match of the night, worst match of the night. We
have best non wrestling happening, the worst non wrestling happening,
hitting gyms, perhaps the best spot, worst spot, my dog spot,
and random thoughts on the show. So, Nick, what is

(01:17:43):
your match of the night from Survivor Series two thousand
and two.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
And we'll say the matches pleasantly surprised me during the
course of this show. But I don't think there's a
close second to our match of the night, the elimination
chamber match. Yes, clearly some good spots in here. I
think it made a good showing for the you know,

(01:18:09):
chamber itself. The steal, you know, like you just kind
of watching, You're like, damn, Like even for the first time,
I'm like, man, like that sounds like it's real steal.
But again, like back then, I'm just like everything's fake.
I don't care type of thing. The storylines weren't interesting

(01:18:30):
to me. You had Triple A to Shawn Michaels and
like a really important storyline at the top of the
car on Raw and I'm just like, I don't care
about these guys anymore. Give me some new blood. Man
at least WCW was trying some new blood, right, So yeah,
given that you know RVD in here, I was like,

(01:18:52):
you know, maybe he'll win. I was annoyed that he
was the first guy in there because just even though
Triple H wants to I was just kind of like, oh, great,
he's not gonna win the title if he's one of
the first guys in there, like geez. And uh. He
was also the first guy eliminated, so that reminded me

(01:19:13):
of Daniel Bryan the Roar of Rubble here in Philly,
where once he was eliminated to change the whole the
rest of the show Man just we were not here
for any of that. And uh for lucky for the
MSG crowd, Uh, they still kind of had Sean Michaels.
I guess even though he looked his ring attire was

(01:19:35):
he didn't like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:36):
The doodoo brown tights. That's that's it was in my
head the old time this.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
Is you can't watch that's here for him. I just can't.
I can't. I can't. I want this guy to win.
I can't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:54):
It makes him a heel because Brown's on. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
How are these guys here for Sean Michaels looking like.

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
That, like amish bowl cut his hair.

Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Bro he was wild, terrible, terrible look. He should have
kept on the chaps, you know his ear that he
wears cether.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Ring, He should have kept on the chaps.

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
Like, just keep the pants on. You know, he wore
the big the big pants, you know after that, why
not wear the big pants here, even though it's part
of your entrance attires. Just keep him on, keep on.
He didn't have to take him off. You didn't absolutely
did not have to take him off.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Well, there's a story behind it, like he didn't have
his proper gear, yeah, something like that, and he had
like some unfinished tights something like that that he just
had and and they would do Dooo Brown why they
were brown? Why you thought about wearing the Doodoo Brown's.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Cowboy boots at all? Brutal?

Speaker 1 (01:20:51):
I don't. He did what he could and he won
the world title.

Speaker 2 (01:20:55):
Like I would have bathed the call be like, okay,
you get your tights for tomorrow night on RAW. You're
you're not gonna win the title tonight, but we'll give
you the title tomorrow night.

Speaker 1 (01:21:05):
That's crazy just because of the tights, Yeah, exactly, just
because of the tights.

Speaker 2 (01:21:09):
You can have somebody else beat trouble h maybe like RVD,
and then have HPK beat RVD. Even though I would,
I would hated it. You know, Triple Ah obviously couldn't
have wrestled anyway with that torn throat. So if the
plan was already for him to lose the title and
the elimination chamber, just have somebody else win it and
then have Sean win it the next night when with
regular tights with regular couldn't it also not only Shawn's

(01:21:36):
ring attire, but Cane's ring attire. I didn't. I hated
this Cane look the more and more after he debuted
in ninety seven, and we're supposed to think that he's
burnt all over his body, And as we go on,
the mask gets smaller, the attire shows more skin, and

(01:21:59):
it's very very clear that he's not burnt at all. Right,
no makeup, there's nothing covering anything that looks like he's burnt.
His His lore is that he's burnt over like what
seventy five percent of his body. The only thing that
wasn't burnt was his left arm because that was always exposed.
But now both arms are exposed most of his chest

(01:22:20):
is exposed, his chin is exposed. Now, his mask is different,
upper lip is exposed. So where the hell's he burnt at?
Where's he burnt at? So maybe he should have lost
the mask before this, because the way he had so
many different styles and ring attires from ninety seven to

(01:22:42):
this point. He's like, okay, like where's he burnt? Then?
Like you're telling us he's burnt, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:50):
And he needed to see some scars.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Where's the makeup? At least give us the makeup?

Speaker 1 (01:22:56):
So every single week.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Yeah, And so that annoyed me at this point where
I'm like, Okay, they just I guess they just forgot
came his uh his his character, Yeah, exactly. And that
annoyed me even in two thousand and two where I'm like, oh,
they're just being lazy, Like they don't care about these characters.
They don't care about you know, so why should I care?

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
You know, they didn't call him ugly and disfigured. It's like,
damn bro. And then they took his mask off and
he was like, he's that's crazy. He just they tried
to make him look that way with the hair in
the back and like they put makeup on him, on
his eyes, and it's like, no, he's just a normal guy,
no matter what you think about him, it's nothing unique

(01:23:39):
about him really. Then he's big, he's big dude, but
like facial wise, it's got all everything. You know, look
seems to be you know, on the up and.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
Up, like he's buried right, you know, like he's a normal,
normal guy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:54):
But when he took the mask off, and I guess
it's two thousand and three, and he like distorted the
camera and it's like it's like, it's just Glynn Jacobs,
It's just Isaac Yankham. And he turned around. They thought
it was gonna be like yeah, like there's fangs and
slobbery everywhere, and it's just Cane. It's just Glenn, just

(01:24:17):
Glen Old Glenn Glinkok, what you're doing over there, Glenn,
put your mask back on. Stop playing. But Elimination Chamber
in two thousand and two, I put in my notes
it's another example of how Vince really didn't care about
the wrestlers. Okay, because you can't tell me he put
this structure together. It's like, y'all be all right, the

(01:24:40):
steel that's fine, y'all can land on it, and y'all
be good, don't worry about the baby.

Speaker 2 (01:24:45):
Y'all know how to fall.

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Jump off that top of that pod with no room
up top, you can't stand all the way up, but
jump off of it.

Speaker 2 (01:24:52):
Yeah, go ahead. I think Vince fell on the steel
himself the way.

Speaker 1 (01:24:55):
He absolutely, there's no way. We don't have any footage
of that. We have footage of him doing the whole
the what a ride and trans before WrestleMania twelve and
him doing like, yeah, see I get it. Haha. No,
he didn't do this, He didn't take a bump on
that steal. You crazy? But wwe put out some behind

(01:25:17):
the scenes footage on YouTube last year before the elimination chamber,
right before the two thousand and two elimination chambers, never
before seen footage of the wrestlers getting their first eyes
on it. They'd never seen it until they showed up
to MSG that day and all the participants on a
ringside kind of sizing it up and trying to like
figure out what to make of this and what to

(01:25:37):
do with this. And to say that there was some
trepidation would be an understatement. Okay, Triple As literally said
out of his mouth, while sitting at ringside, we're all f't.
Somebody said, what are you thinking? We're all f't? We're
all screwed pretty much. Book a T looks at Triple

(01:25:58):
H and it's like, somebody's gonna get ffed up tonight.
I can feel it. And the crazy thing is he
said it looking at Triple H, who indeed got fed.

Speaker 2 (01:26:08):
Up that night because of the you know, the dimensions
of this structure. If it was a regular front flash,
I don't think he gets effed up.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
Maybe he doesn't, but because they built it the way
they built it, he got messed up and almost died
in New York City that night. So the wrestlers are like,
you know, back in two thousand and two, you weren't
allowed to show emotional fear if you're a grown man, right,
So the fact that they were like, oh lord, this
is gonna be painful tonight, let you know how shook

(01:26:38):
they really were out this structure. Okay, it was not
good that the dudes in two thousand and two who
were cutting their faces open every night to get a
pop are like, oh, I don't know about this one, vincent,
but we'll do it right. And halfway through the match,
halfway through the match, not even like late in the match.
Early on in the match, Triple H suffered that neck

(01:27:01):
injury and still went on to finish the match. I
showed some guts. I give him credit for that because
there were still two people in the pods when that happened,
and he still went through in the whole thing with
Shawn Michaels and everything else, which I will say, Shawn
Michaels winning the world title and Jr's call of it,

(01:27:24):
it's among my one of my all time favorites. I
will say I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
I hated it in the moment. I still annoying that
Sean was not winning a title, but the call fantastic.

Speaker 1 (01:27:40):
Do you believe in miracles? You believe Michaels.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
I can't believe it. And I'll tell you man, I
was miserable back then, a curmudgeon, if you will, And
listening to JR. Call that, I was like, shut up, man,
Sean Michaels, Dude, it's Michaels. Man in two thousand and two,
this is I thought he was like done right. So

(01:28:07):
he comes back and I'm like, okay, Like I'll have
a couple of matches here and there and now he's
world champion.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
But we're wrong. At the end of the day, this
is what the record reflect. You thought this, but you
thought wrong. Sean Michael's had many more years last at
a high level. He probably could have won the world
title two or three times. You're lucky he only wanted
this one time and then only had it for a month.
He lost to the next pay per view as soon
as he could. He lost it exactly and never got

(01:28:35):
it back. It was never world champion again.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
After it was kind of funny because I was like, Okay,
this is a nice little swad song for his career.
Once he loses the title, he'll be gone. But nope,
he like once he started off like another program. I
think it was with Jericho, right.

Speaker 1 (01:28:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
After that, I was like, oh, so, okay, maybe this
is his last program. And once he was for him,
I was like, okay, maybe this is his last Bran.

Speaker 1 (01:28:56):
Then years later he's still he's just retiring.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
I gave him credit after the fact, but in the
moment in two thousand and two, I was not oh
on the HPK bandwagon because I was just like, Okay,
now that there's no wcw right, they're just gonna do
whatever they want. They can afford to have Sean in
this position. Okay, he can move, but he can't wrestle
like he did before. You know, this is just fun

(01:29:20):
for him. And like that's really how I looked at it,
just not caring and uh like, oh, they just introduced
the world title for Triple as, just gave it to him,
and now he's just got to go back and forth
with his buddy Sean with it, Like who cares? There's
the really the only guy that I know, Ben Wah
want it. But the only guy that really benefited from

(01:29:44):
the world world title, the world heavyweight title was or
I should say the first guy was I think Batista honestly.

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
Like actually like benefited and elevated.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
Three years after this, you know, like that's what it
felt like to me. So you have Triple H is
the world heavyweight champ most of the time, but then
you had Goldberg with it. Obviously Sewan with it and
then Goldberg. Then you had Randy Orton with it for
like a month. Goldberg had it for a month too,
just like you know, and it would always go back
to Triple H. So and then and then it went
to Benwah for a few months before Orton won it

(01:30:17):
and then back to Triple H. So it really didn't
do anything for me, uh you know, in this timeframe.
So I think Batista was the first guy where I
was like okay, like okay, I bought into the World
Heavyweight title concept three years later almost so to go
out with this main eventing too, I was like, man,

(01:30:39):
you couldn't even do like for SmackDown for the actual
World Championship because I started to look at.

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
The World actual World Championship how I viewed it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
Yeah, this is how I viewed it, so damn having
So I was like, if RVD doesn't win, then I
don't care. Boom he was the first one eliminated. Boom
didn't care.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
Well. Still a match of the night though for both
of us.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
I mean, yeah, good spots. I like to slink shot
into the pod. I think it was.

Speaker 1 (01:31:05):
Oh yeah, I think it was. I think it was
it was. I wrote it down in my notes. I
had both of those among my best spots of the night.
But there were quite a few candidates for that. But
Shawn Michaels and Chris Jericho went through the pod at
some point.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
So that was like giving you a saying how this
structure could work and you know, beat people up. By
the way, Triple H O and six of Survivors series
heading into this match.

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
Wow seven coming out about that.

Speaker 2 (01:31:35):
But yeah, what the Montreal screw job count as a win?

Speaker 1 (01:31:39):
Not for not for Triple H.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
I'm sure he was. He was part of it.

Speaker 1 (01:31:45):
He won in some ways, right, he did. Losing that way,
God will strike you down and now he's a multi millionaire.
God has not stricken yet, and God has not struck
according to Julia Heart. I mean, he did have the
heart scare a couple of years ago, but some near scares.

(01:32:09):
Julia Heart was almost like, Okay, that's crazy, oh man,
because she did like, if you lying, it's gonna happen,
something bad gonna happen. He's asked where to God, I'm
not lying, even though he was like, I'm definitely lying,
for sure lying. I do nothing According to to me,

(01:32:31):
you know, I ain't. I ain't see nothing. I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:33):
I'm not the one who came up with the idea. Allegedly,
we talked about the structure. By the way, yeah, how
does a rope break uh happen in this type of match?
Like why are there rope breaks right, like it just
doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
But doesn't make sense to me either, But they don't know.
This is the first year. You gotta again. You gotta
work out some kinks, you know, gotta get into the uh.
You know, sometimes the first one time around is a
little rough, and the second time around you iron out
the details, you get it right. It took them a
while to change the structure, like a decade plus. I

(01:33:11):
think it was twenty seventeen, twenty seventeen when they first
changed it. I think twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen. Surprise, it
took that long, right, Honestly, I think it was like
that run that time, right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
I don't even remember when they changed it. I just
remember I remember when they changed the cell, which I
didn't like.

Speaker 1 (01:33:29):
Oh when they made it red that and uh, just
like a.

Speaker 2 (01:33:35):
Yeah, twenty seventy of the footholes like everywhere, it's like,
oh my god, Like this is ridiculous, just the look
of it, Like how big the footholes were. It's like, oh,
they're they're gonna go up on top.

Speaker 1 (01:33:46):
They did it. I forgot. They took a year off
in twenty sixteen apparently, and then brought it back in
twenty seventeen, but it was a new structure. It's like,
oh that's cool, it makes sense. Uh, but yes, elimination chamber.
As I matched the I could do have an honorable
mention I got. It looks like I got a couple
of honorable mentions actually because there were some good matches
on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
I have, uh one one, but I could have put
to but I.

Speaker 1 (01:34:12):
Got two and I gotta. I got a deep cut
for the hidden gym is real hitting, so it was
like I had to make it a hitting gym. But
the honorable mention will be the first one will be
the w W Tag team title match, Yes, between Low
Scuerrero's uh Edge and Ray Mysterio. They were did the
champions they're defending against so Edgeisterio defending the w W

(01:34:35):
Tag titles against Los Squerrero's and Kurt Angle and Chris
Benoit's uh so much action from Jump Benoit and Angle
or the first eliminated and like arguing all the way
through it and they know the beating up members of
the other teams out of frustration and like out of competition,
like look what I can do, Like I'm a I'm
a German suplex and when with the angle slam him

(01:34:57):
over the over the belly belly to belly, not bally
de belly belly to belly. So the finish was a
little wonky, uh, leading to Los Guerrero's winning. But I
thought the match overall was still a lot of fun.
A lot of unique spots in the match, I think
one another one that I'll mentioned in my best spot
section later on, A couple of fun ones in this match.

(01:35:19):
Another honorable mention that I had was the six man
elimination table match to open the show, which had the
Dudley Boys Bubba and Spike. Do they count them as
Dudley Boys They're all part of the same family, I
guess uh. And Jeff Hardy Uh. They teamed up with
Jeff Hardy to go against three minute Warning. Rosie and Jamal,

(01:35:40):
of course part of the ann Y family. Rest in
peace to both of them and ricoh Re Meer Rico.

Speaker 3 (01:35:46):
He was.

Speaker 1 (01:35:46):
He was fun. He was a character. No divon though,
because Vince thought he'd make a great evangelist preacher on SmackDown.
So no Dudley Boys at least, you know, did the
original two. I guess Spike was the first eliminated after
a dope spot where Rico reversed the Dudley Dog and

(01:36:06):
then tossed him into Rosi and Jamal, who then slammed
him face first through the table, which was crazy, like
flipped him face first. Rosie back flipked up the turn
buckle at one point and like, well because I think
somebody knocked him off the turnbuckle and then he like
fell and bounced off of it and fortunately fully rotated

(01:36:28):
because I thought he wasn't for a second. Yeah, who
oh he flipped. Wow, what an athlete, because I thought
I thought it was gonna end poorly. Then he eventually
takes Jeff Hardy to the tunnel of MSG and you
know what's gonna happen here, Okay, because Jeff Hardy puts
Rosie on top of a table. He climbs to the
top of the tunnel and he jumps off of it

(01:36:50):
to eliminate Rosie puts him through a table, And we'll
talk about that one later on in this best spot
section as well. Also, Jeff Hardy, as a is oud
of that bump, was a little banged up, but he
was supposed to come down and knock Rico off the
top turn buckle, and I just saw a video of
Rico talking about this and how he cussed out Jeff
Hardy because he's like, God, dang it, Jeff Hardy, come on,

(01:37:13):
where are you, which they cut out of Peacock. I
did not see that on Peacock.

Speaker 2 (01:37:19):
I read that as well, so that was part of
the Should I get the tape and go back and
look at it? I did not, but I'm sure there's
an edited footage out there, so.

Speaker 1 (01:37:28):
It has to be because it's on I saw it
on on Instagram with Rico talking about and they showed
the footage of him cussing at Jeff Hardy and then
Jeff Hardy getting to like the opposite turn buckle and
like shaking the ropes barely and Rico finally selling.

Speaker 2 (01:37:43):
It like oh like even though, so that's what I
was like, Okay, something might have been edited here, but
they did it pretty well on Peacock to hide that.
And I saw Rico all of a sudden like moving
and I was like, oh, maybe he's just losing his balance,
and then you have Jeff on the other side checking
the rope, so I'm like, okay, like that's clearly not
holding him up, but I see what they're doing here.

(01:38:05):
So yeah, but it was funny because part of me
is like, how di Rico know he was over there?
Because you don't see them like make you don't see
Rico like look over and be edited version on Peacocks.
So it's like, oh, like he just lucked out there.
But the reason is because he was cussing him out
before that. Jeff, where are you?

Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
Jeff? He's like, I've been in the video that I saw.
He's like, I never lost my balance on the top
rope ever, and now I got to pretend that I'm
losing my balance in the top rope.

Speaker 2 (01:38:35):
Like I mean, it was a pretty bad look where
it was. He definitely didn't lose his balance, but he tried.
I guess he made it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:43):
He did his best, and I mean, Jeff, he did
the dive, he had to do the swanton, and now
he's like, oh.

Speaker 2 (01:38:50):
Pain, isn't somebody helping Jeff? That needed to be Bubba
or something like three or four reps there right there
were rest there.

Speaker 1 (01:38:57):
Have somebody else be there. I guess Bubba's the table.
Then it can't be Bubba, so maybe Bubba gets up
and something I don't know, but yeah, Jeff was too
banged up to get there in time. He was hurt
after that swan time. But as we move on from that,
Jamal eliminates Jeff because he at one point threw a
table as Jeff, and then I think puts him to

(01:39:19):
a table after that, and then Bubba eliminates Jamal, which
leaves only Bubba and Rico. At something out of nowhere
here comes It's it's Devon. No, no, no, it's Dudley Boys.
Devon he's a Dudley Boys gear. No cloth here, and
he comes out as Dudley Boy's gear, and it helps

(01:39:40):
helps Bubba hit the three d on Rico to win
the match and give the win, I should say to
the good guys. And after the match, Bubba and Devon
look like long lost lovers. They see each other and
they go, it was you all along, and they hug
each other and they reunite. The Dudley Boys are back together.

(01:40:02):
Vince finally wised up and rectified the mistake he should
have never made, which is bringing up the Dudley Boys
without an actual plan. Did you have a plan to
push Devon in any way? You made him a preacher
Bubba was just still Bubba. He stud the glasses, he
stud the music. He never changed, really he was.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
He was like a singles wrestler for a month or
two and then he just teamed with Spike pretty much.
These are the New Dudley Boys.

Speaker 1 (01:40:29):
The New Dudley Boys, the New Foundation, the new uh
that Express, the New Dudley Boys, Bubba and Spike, the
New Rockers. They didn't have New Rockers, uh, the U
and they did have the New Rockers, New Blackjacks. Uh.

(01:40:50):
Who was the one with the man? Uh not? Who's
Basher Usa Man? Michael Hayes. What was the name of
their group? The Free Birds new three Birds with Jimmy
jam Garvin now playing a role Spike Dudley. But yeah,
the Dudley Boys were unite.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
And it's like tears in people's eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:41:12):
It's very funny that it was only a few months
after the brands split, so I mean, i'd say a
few but what the brands split was like in March
or April. So you fast forward made June, July, August,
September or October, November, and.

Speaker 1 (01:41:26):
Good amount good, We're good. Yeah, we're done. We don't
need to do anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:41:30):
Put thee put them back together.

Speaker 1 (01:41:32):
Bro, we need tag teams also. We got two sets
of tag titles and we broke up the Dudley Boys.
What are we doing? It's so goofy and it's such
a come a long way from our one of our
deep dots we did earlier this year, which is I
think it was Judgment Day when they weren't broken up
and they had that one interaction with Stacy Kiebler and
all that, and now it was just complete nonsense. It's like,

(01:41:54):
where are we going with this? And in by November
they are back together as if nothing ever happened. They
thank you for that, because I guess it got Batista
over someone else. You got Deacon Batista out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
They basically were like his career arc is. I overcame
this terrible, terrible creative.

Speaker 1 (01:42:14):
From the guy who hired me. It's his fault. It's
his fault that I was in this position. But yeah,
it's like the reunions that we have in WW. You
rank them, It's like Savage and Liz and Bubba and
Devon is like right underneath that, bro, like they needed
that reunion bad. I was I was tearing up. I

(01:42:34):
was sniffling.

Speaker 2 (01:42:36):
I mean, I got the place to do it. I'm
not too you know, yeah, people know them.

Speaker 1 (01:42:42):
There's still means something to me, still real to me.

Speaker 2 (01:42:46):
Damn it holding up a Dudley Boy's wrestling buddy while crying.

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
Yeah, jumping through a table and out of you know,
out of respect to the Dudley's. All right, enough of
the fun times, Let's get to the word times. Let's
get to the worst match of the night.

Speaker 2 (01:43:02):
That was also an honorable mention for me, but the
oh yes Tag Team Championship match was.

Speaker 1 (01:43:07):
So yes, worst match of the night. Nick I got
a prime candidate for this what is yours?

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
There can't be much worse than brock Lesner versus the
Big Show?

Speaker 1 (01:43:19):
Where do we begin with this garbage here?

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
There's I have one positive to say about this match.

Speaker 1 (01:43:25):
You got a positive? I do, Okay, I know so.

Speaker 2 (01:43:29):
Chris Johnson said it was a slow plotting match. I
somewhat disgree.

Speaker 1 (01:43:33):
It went by like nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:43:35):
I think they were it was quick, you know, like
it was. There was a short match, but the action
during the match I think was quick. That's also something
I have to say about this era. Wrestling was paced
a lot quicker around, which is time, which.

Speaker 1 (01:43:50):
Is surprising, right. You would think that it would be
quicker paced today because everybody's attention spans a shorter But
back in two thousand and two, those matches would be
eight minutes and they'd get a lot of at in
eight minutes.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
Yeah, there's no rest spots, no time for replays, uh,
you know, commercials, none of that stuff. Back then. You know,
even the the bad matches were paced pretty quickly. And
I'm like, risk you watch wrestling today. And I was
even watching Deadline last night, the beginning of the Irons,

(01:44:22):
the men's Iron Survivor match. I didn't watch a lot
of the women's I didn't watch most of the show anyway,
but I watched some of the men's Irons forever and
just the beginning is so slow, Like they're doing all
these moves, all this choreographed stuff, and it's just slow
because you have to anticipate and you're making sure that

(01:44:43):
somebody does this before you do that. And I don't
like that style of wrestling. I just don't so watching
this and I'm like, oh, even though it's brock Lesner
and the big Show, they're still moving, you know, at
a pace where you appreciate. Okay, they're trying to try
to do the like it make sense. They're not very
very slow. I appreciated that out of this match.

Speaker 1 (01:45:09):
That's the that's the thing, all right. So let's get
to everything else about this match. All right. It's a
w W Championship. We got brock Lessner, the unstoppable badass champion, right,
who's just sort of turning baby face out of nowhere,
being a heel for all year. But people do like
him because why we were, like.

Speaker 2 (01:45:29):
Anybody unpersonally beating Undertaker's ass made people.

Speaker 1 (01:45:32):
Like him, right, whooping up on him in his in
his own match, and hell on the cell he had
to cast in his hand and everything destroyed Undertaker, right,
So everybody likes his guy because he's whooping up on everybody,
and he's got the risks he's got. You know, he
got this, you got the swag, he got everything GoF
for him, the entrance, the music, the pyro boom when
he jumps in the apron fire like dope. Right, But

(01:45:55):
they need to give him some adversity apparently, because what
do you do with the guy who's now a baby
face but he's killed everybody put him up against somebody
bigger than him. This is most of the reason why
this is here, the match itself. I don't even care
about the matches self, It's just the booking ideology behind

(01:46:16):
what is happening here. Because this is why this is happening.
Brock needs adversity. If it's going to be a babyface,
he needs to be in peril. The thing is, he's
had zero peril throughout two thousand and two. Vince says, well,
let's give him the peril now, not let's wait for
it right now. Okay, But who can we get to

(01:46:42):
give him the peril? He's already beaten the Undertaker twice,
including once in a hell in the cell. Who can
we turn to? Who can we run to? Paul Whitett
is that you, well, well listen to a big show.

(01:47:03):
That's who we got to turn to. The problem is,
despite being seven feet tall, five hundred pounds, being a
former debutsy W champion, and making cameo and jingle all
the way, which I just watched recently, I laugh at
pretty much every scene of that movie. I don't care
what nobody say. I love jingle. We absolutely should. We

(01:47:27):
got time, baby, We got the holidays. Yet we're gonna
do it this year. Man, I just watched I watched
it again because Phil Hartman kills me every time in
that movie when he talks about Arnold Swarzenegg's wife's cookies.
I love those cookies. Arnold goes put that cookie down.

Speaker 2 (01:47:45):
I've never seen this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
Way, Oh, we gotta watch it. It's on something. I
think it's on top right now. Oh, we gotta do it.
I can't wait. Yep, that's what we're doing. I'm so
excited all right now. But despite all of this that
that big show has accumulated over the years, he is
dead in the water. By this time in two thousand
and two, he is nobody. He's nothing at this point.

(01:48:10):
He is just coming off a stint off the main roster.
And you know what he was doing at WrestleMania this
year at WWF New York, holding up a kid going
yay WrestleMania. Guys, I ain't there. I'm not even in
the same country as the show. They didn't even fly
me up to Canada for the show. They left me
in New York. That's how much big shows on the radar.

(01:48:31):
Just like six months prior booted them off the main roster,
said lose some weight and get your wrestling together. He
comes back wearing a singlet and jeans, and they said,
you're gonna be the one to give blackless trouble. They
were dungarees, bro They were denim, not slacks, denim absorbing

(01:48:57):
all the all the sweat is just hanging on to
these jeans. You can't you can't work out in these.
And then they to make matters worse. They said, Hey,
Paul Hammond, I know you've been helping him as far
as promos and you add to the presentation of brock
Lesnon and you've been riding with him since day one.

(01:49:18):
But guess what, not anymore, because you're gonna hit your
wagon to the big show over the young, hot upstart
in brock Lesnon. Think about this for a second, man,
in any sport or anything. You got this old grizzled
veteran who you just got caught up from the miners,
you think the man is gonna ride with him or

(01:49:40):
the hot young star who's got years and years ahead
of him, and it's on fire right now, right now.
It'd be like the Dodgers saying, you know what we're
gonna trade show hey for Mike Trout. I'm not to
say Mike Trout is a bum, but his best years
are seemingly behind him. On trade show, Hail Tany. For

(01:50:04):
Bryce Harper, you'd be like, what in the hell is
wrong with the Dodgers? But in storyline, we're supposed to
believe that. Paul Hayman said, you know what, because Brock
Lessner isn't listening to me, I'm gonna go with big
show over Brock. You want me to believe that, you

(01:50:24):
out your damn mind. It just felt like Vince panicked,
what do we do? Get creative? Not just get the
biggest person you can find and then beat Brock and
take his manager with him.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
This almost a result of Vince visins creation of WrestleMania
and the road to WrestleMania because he thought he needed
to have Brock crowned again, WrestleMania crowned again.

Speaker 1 (01:50:54):
If you already crowned him, you crowned their ass, You
crowned them, then crowned them, you crowned them. At SummerSlam
he beat the Rock, and I get what you're saying.
He wanted him to win at WrestleMania, win the title
at WrestleMania, not be the champion. To me accomplished, it's
the same goal. You already gave him the title.

Speaker 2 (01:51:15):
He beat the rock Halk Cogan was the champion. I
went into WrestleMania three.

Speaker 1 (01:51:20):
And nobody cared. Nobody was like, oh, but dampened the
moment when Hawk Hogan defended the title instead of winning it.
No people thought, probably thought he won it anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:51:30):
I did for the longest time, by the way, probably
forget that he was a champion.

Speaker 1 (01:51:37):
So who cares. You just want to see the guy win.
If you're going to crown his ass and crown him,
you crowned him already. That's my Dinnis Greener person at
sur Vivor series. If you don't know that somehow, go
on YouTube look at Dennis Green. Crown him and you'll

(01:51:58):
see Dinnis Green, black head coach, rest in peace, Dinnis Green,
great coach, head coach back in the day, coach ninety
eight Vikings. They were fifteen and went it was dominant,
but he was on the car does by this point
and things weren't going as well and they lost their Bears. Yeah,
and the Bears were terrible on offense, but defensive special
teams carried the day and Dennis Green was pissed. I

(01:52:25):
remember they used to do like the parodies of that
when they had like the Thing of the Corps like
commercials and then people asking him questions and he's answering
the tremendous commercials. But yeah, rest in peace, Dennis Green.
But we're gonna crown them, to crown them. And the
Bears went to the Super Bowl. They almost won the
Super Bowl. That ye they did, and you had Devin

(01:52:46):
hesteron and and all that. That was a fun team
to watch.

Speaker 2 (01:52:48):
That was like a bad super Bowl to watch though,
just because the weather was brutal.

Speaker 1 (01:52:52):
It was bad, and it was bad and you had
Rex Grossman had quarterback.

Speaker 2 (01:52:58):
They had Payton Manning on the other.

Speaker 1 (01:53:00):
Right, there's a mismatch. There's a mismatch when it comes
to quarterbacking. No disrespect the Rex Grossman. He just started
a super Bowl. Good for him, But like there's levels
to this, and you're gonna get the sheriff, You're gonna
get Peyton bro good luck, Okay, Brian myla, Like I
can only do so much, all right, you know, uh,
but yeah, we're in bad straits. Right now, Okay, but Lesner.

(01:53:24):
The problem is Lesner needed Hammon at this point because
Lesner was not used to this schedule that WW had
him on. He was not ready to be on his
own talking all right, and lo and behold what a
year or so later he's gone. And when he came back,
who was He was by himself for a little bit,

(01:53:45):
but eventually they said, hey, man, give me Paul Hamman back, Like,
why are y'all playing? Why do y'all do this? Stop
playing with me? Bro I don't even want to talk
like that. But that was definitely the case back in
oh two, when he was not as comfortable in his
own skin yet he's just figuring this out. He's twenty four.
He was the youngest world champion every boy this point.

(01:54:05):
He was like twenty five, you know, what the hell
is going on? And he's had Paul Hammond in his
year this whole time, and then you take him away,
so yeah, just real bad stuff. And then and then
the match itself was short, and then him and turns

(01:54:26):
on him, and it's like, what in the hell is
going on here? Brock had won the title and lost
it before he even appeared at a WrestleMania. What are
we doing? If this was WWE today, he would have
had the bell for two years before he lost it.
They would have never had him lose. So we need
to find like a happy medium. We don't need Vince's

(01:54:46):
like impulsive knee jerk reaction booking, but we also don't
need the slow, plodding booking of Triple H. We need
somewhere in the middle where his room for like some
spontan eighty And I feel like in this particular sense,
you don't have Bronck lose at all before WrestleMania, and
you probably understand that, like people are turning him into
a baby face. He's becoming that in late two thousand

(01:55:07):
and two, but like, maybe do your best to keep
him a heel. I don't know, I don't know, but
this was bad. The match was bad, the booking was bad.
I don't think it held Big Show. Where was Big
Show after this? He won the title, loses to kurd Angle,
and is nowhere to be found after that. It's unlike
he as a result becomes like a big star and

(01:55:29):
like Brock, like Rock like topples him to win it back.
He doesn't even beat Big Show to win it back.

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
He beat kard Angle his Big Shows WrestleMania match handicap
match right against the Undertaker with him in a train.

Speaker 1 (01:55:43):
I think, yeah, I think I'm looking enough right now. Yes,
this Big Show in a train against the Undertaker, that's
where Big Show is headed. What are we doing? Bro?

Speaker 2 (01:55:54):
Let me guess Paul Hayman wasn't with him during that.

Speaker 1 (01:55:57):
Absolutely not. What are we doing? And that's that's just
a short sighted nonsense that you I don't miss. I'm
off her here for the spot in eighty but like
just a knee jerk reaction like this bad. I don't
think it helped anyone involved, didn't help Brock, didn't help

(01:56:18):
Paul him, and maybe it got Paul him off TV.
Maybe that's what he wanted. I don't know, but it
didn't help Brock. It didn't help Big Show at all
except give him, I guess another world title win. Congrats?
What do we do this for?

Speaker 2 (01:56:34):
And you can't have me buy into the Big Show
in two thousand and two, just can't. He's not after
what you did to him from nineteen ninety nine.

Speaker 1 (01:56:44):
Bro it's only been three years too.

Speaker 2 (01:56:47):
He's not the big He's not this big.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
And figure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:56:55):
Yeah, like dude, I've seen like Ed spear him, you know,
like I've seen him sell some of the worst moves
I've ever seen, somewhat his size sell big show.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
You joined ww in nineteen ninety nine, by his February
ninety nine. By April two thousand at Backlash, he is
doing the Hawk Hogan impersonation on the show against Kurt Angle. Now,
he won, but he was supposed to be the big,
fun loving giant. It only took a year.

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
Yeah, I believe he lost to mankind as well. He
did so he did a month into his WF tenor
he's already part of the corporation and then kicked out.
And then you remember of the Union.

Speaker 1 (01:57:41):
Come out with Vince Vince brutal, which is the most
hilarious thing ever. They called it the Union for who
was more anti Union than Mince McMahon. And he's out
there with his sleeves rolled up like in Everyman with
his two by four their Union, brutal, brutal stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
Even as champion, I just can't.

Speaker 1 (01:58:12):
Absolutely not not over Brock.

Speaker 2 (01:58:15):
And it's funny because I wasn't even a Brock guy
this time frame, but even I thought that was like,
really really dumb. So I'm not even more not a
Big Show guy than I wasn't a Brock guy at
that time. In jeans.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
What Yeah, he got fat farm jeans on winning the
world title. Bro come on, man, come on, bro come on.
Then he didn't even do anything with it. Noop, nothing,
didn't make it to the War of Rumble before losing. Noop,

(01:58:50):
I don't think he made it to the Rumble December.

Speaker 2 (01:58:52):
I believe for Angle beat him.

Speaker 1 (01:58:55):
What an Angle?

Speaker 2 (01:58:56):
I mean that might have been the Rubble. I don't
know because Angle, No, it was Armageddon.

Speaker 1 (01:59:01):
It was Armageddon.

Speaker 2 (01:59:02):
Brock won the Rumble.

Speaker 1 (01:59:03):
And but the thing was, Kurt Angle was kind of
a baby face at this point. That was maybe the problem.
I think they knew they wanted to go to Brock
and Kurd Angle, but Kurd Angle was a baby face
would have been with Benoit, so I guess you didn't
want to go baby face versus baby face. But now
we babyface Kurt against Big Show. And then Kurt wins,
and then he flips heel walk right after because they
bring out Team Angle. A lot of stuff going on, man,

(01:59:27):
I'm not saying the Team Angle stuff wasn't better. It's
just a and then a lot of twist and turns.

Speaker 2 (01:59:32):
Kurt was a baby face later that year or two No.
Three where him and Rock had that Iron Man match
on Smackdail was still one of my favorite matches of
all time, and Angle was the baby face in that
match and Brock was the heel. So but they had
just turned like not that far before this match.

Speaker 1 (01:59:49):
I believe It's too much was creative with a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:59:53):
Of twists and turns for for who for what exactly?
And I hated, uh, just Hayman going with the Big Show.
They did the same thing when RVD was ECW champion.
I remember that where I do RVD got suspended and
then Paul Hayman came out, made the pen and sided
with the Big Show in ECW. Damn it on sci Fi.

(02:00:16):
It's like it was a bad idea the first time,
you gonna run it back, get double down man four
years later, like it's a wild.

Speaker 1 (02:00:25):
Leave, it's e vinced double down on a bad idea
four years later.

Speaker 2 (02:00:29):
Like Hayman being this the face of ECW H even
though it's w W E c W and then literally right,
I think it was like two or three weeks after
one night stand, he gets rid of RVD like a storyline, right,
RVD suspended because of the marijuana thing, but just having

(02:00:49):
Paul Hayman as that character on TV to turn it
on RVD just to side with the big show again,
I'm just like, no, man, like I can't. And I
was watching every week at this point in six when
that happened, and I just remember it happening here it's
Rivors series oh two, and I'm like, literally my first
reaction again, that's brutal. They did that twice.

Speaker 1 (02:01:12):
It's bad. It's easily the worst part of the show, honestly.

Speaker 2 (02:01:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:01:16):
My honorable mention here though, is the women's championship match. Unfortunately, Uh,
they you know, they did their best for what they had,
but they didn't have a whole lot.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:01:27):
The finish is kind of anti climactic, Victoria hitting the
snapsup plex, which was weird after all the weapons they
used they went, she went with a snapsuit plex. But
one thing I didn't like though was that they when
they did some actual good work with a literal broom,
would you always hear like you got wrestler broom? They
did wrestler broom for a little bit. But when they

(02:01:47):
used the ironing board and Jerry King Lawler was talking about, oh,
Tristan's even domesticated, that was kind of I don't like
that at all. Yeah, we think some blood. I don't
know if it's intentional, but it's an honorable mention. It
you know, it was isn't great. But there's a lot
of good matches on the show. That's a problem, Like
a lot of good stuff, But you have any honorable

(02:02:07):
mentions here at all.

Speaker 2 (02:02:08):
Or I don't suck because I thought the I actually
didn't think that was a bad match.

Speaker 1 (02:02:12):
And it was fine.

Speaker 2 (02:02:13):
I did my head in Jim was one that you
already had mentioned. So I didn't think any match was
like truly truly bad over this one or even near
this one. Way Lesn're a big show where you know,
and it wasn't you know, I'm thinking of MSG Survivors
Series ninety six SID versus Shawn Michaels where MS she

(02:02:35):
was against Shawn Michaels and they were tearing SID not
even close to that. No, MSG was behind brock Man
like they did not want to see this. So that
was pretty funny.

Speaker 1 (02:02:45):
That's pretty bad all right, best non wrestling happening? What
do you have here? Nick?

Speaker 2 (02:02:51):
Not a lot to choose from. I thought about putting
Saliva here, but I did not. I think I'll disagree
with you here. I thought the rn N thing was
always kind of entertaining to me, just interrupting something to
give us an update on Randy Orton's health. It was,
you know, it could have been worse.

Speaker 1 (02:03:12):
The idea and theory could have worked. It just Orton
just didn't feel comfortable in that that spot.

Speaker 2 (02:03:18):
He didn't really have much charisma to him either at
this point. But I thought it was funny interrupting as
Shawn Michael's promo and then not going back to that.
It's like nobody, nobody, nobody knew that he interrupted. I
guess except j R. And law or right. But it's
like SEW didn't realize his promo was interrupted. I guess
Terry was the one interviewing him, right, she didn't realize it.

(02:03:40):
So it's like, Okay, well did no one realize this
was happening?

Speaker 1 (02:03:45):
I will say that, Thank goodness Randy Orton got picked
up into Evolution because given who he is today, it
helped a lot. He was on the road to nowhere
with this Randy News Network stuff. Right to know, I
know you liked it. It was going nowhere.

Speaker 2 (02:04:02):
I tolerated it.

Speaker 1 (02:04:05):
I did not.

Speaker 2 (02:04:06):
I won't say I liked it. But in this on
this pay per view, it was fairly an entertaining aspect,
even though he was on on screen WAT thirty seconds
and he had like this weird pause where like in
between when he's talked, it was like ten or fifteen seconds.

Speaker 1 (02:04:22):
It was.

Speaker 2 (02:04:23):
It was a little weird. His pacing. I was like,
this stuff's edited right, like they could have easily done
this is this take number like fifteen, Like what are
we doing?

Speaker 1 (02:04:33):
Like get so get Randy Yorton his sling and his
two thousand and three good Charlotte haircut off my screen? Okay,
is Amber Crombie a fit haircut off my screen?

Speaker 2 (02:04:43):
I had that many a time back then.

Speaker 1 (02:04:45):
Many I'm sure. I'm sure all all the all the
Caucasians had it all right. I remember. That's how I
vividly remember the error postel gear that we move to
the shore, let me go to the shore of rock
this and with the seashell necklace.

Speaker 2 (02:05:02):
I remember, dude, I had like so many oh not anymore,
but I had so many unfortunately, like moving five times,
I just got rid of so many things. But yeah,
I had, dude, I had to thin ones. I had
the thick ones. Man like it.

Speaker 1 (02:05:18):
Oh man, it was a time everybody thought they grew
up on the beach when Arab Hostel and Amber Kami
and Fitch came out. Everybody was a beach bumb all
of a sudden.

Speaker 2 (02:05:26):
Let me get to the diners in South Jersey and
act like I'm some Jersey guy.

Speaker 1 (02:05:30):
There's people, bro, there's people in the hood rocking that,
and they had never been to a beach in they life.
They've never been to the shore. It was in North Philly,
down north, looking like a beach bumb, wild jeans with
the flip flops. Will but my best non wrestling happening,
I would give it to Scott Steiner's return to WWE

(02:05:52):
after he beat up Matt Hardy and Chris Newinsky, who
were both out there talking crap about New York City.
More in Christ Newinsky later. But uh, who better than
Georgia native Scott Steiner to defend New York's honor? Right?

Speaker 2 (02:06:08):
But well, he's also known for being from Michigan.

Speaker 1 (02:06:10):
So oh that's true too. They went to the University
of Michigan. But I think the I think they're from Georgia.

Speaker 2 (02:06:14):
Yeah, why would he care about New York City?

Speaker 1 (02:06:16):
Right? Why would he care? But he came back big
ovation jack to the gills and sounded just like bron
Breker was like the same.

Speaker 2 (02:06:26):
Like, So I watched this after Bronze Promo on Raw.
So it was definitely I'm like, WHOA like taking it
back a little bit by it because I I'm sure
like even if I watched it before Bronze promo, I
would have felt the same thing. But it was literally
like the day a day or two after I watched
Bronze promo, and I was just like, WHOA, Like, hear me,

(02:06:47):
yeah right.

Speaker 1 (02:06:50):
Got my freaks and my peaks, I'm your hookup. He
just throwing random slang terms together. He heard black people
say this stuff. It didn't make any sense in what
he was saying, big pop up pump is your hookup?
If you hear me hooking for what? What's the hookup?
It could be a number of things.

Speaker 2 (02:07:07):
How do I how what's your phone number?

Speaker 1 (02:07:09):
Right?

Speaker 2 (02:07:09):
Your phone number? Right?

Speaker 1 (02:07:11):
Right? This is two thousand and two.

Speaker 2 (02:07:12):
I need I need you know.

Speaker 1 (02:07:15):
Like, what are we doing here? What's the what's the hookup?
You got the holes on deck?

Speaker 2 (02:07:19):
What you mean?

Speaker 1 (02:07:21):
What you talking about? Scott, Scottie, who's the hookup? But yeah,
Scott Steiner's uh return because again he had been in
w w F before as a member of the Steiner
Tag team, but now he don't.

Speaker 2 (02:07:37):
Know he was coming. I believe at this time it's
like people know.

Speaker 1 (02:07:41):
Yeah, it felt like something that the Dirt Sheets were
aware of back in two thousand and two.

Speaker 2 (02:07:45):
If they aired vignettes or not before this.

Speaker 1 (02:07:48):
But I don't recall that. I don't recall that. It
may have, but I don't. I don't recall that vividly. Also,
I had to Bubba and Devon reuniting, you know, almost
shed it to hear because they were going nowhere fast separately.
So bring them back together? Uh, now, worst non wrestling happening, Nick.

Speaker 2 (02:08:12):
Unfortunately Scott Ciders saved us, but he didn't save us enough.
Christowinsky and Matt Hardy having one of the worst promos
I've ever heard.

Speaker 1 (02:08:23):
It was really, really bad, and they raised their hands
together like they were the Bloods and the Crips coming together.
At the end, Luke said, raw SmackDown guys couldn't get along.
Man asked garbage.

Speaker 2 (02:08:36):
That was a big deal back then, though, I guess so.

Speaker 1 (02:08:41):
I guess it was and in eindsight, but it wasn't
like they were different human beings. They were just different
on different shows.

Speaker 2 (02:08:49):
Save guy Sizer chucks right.

Speaker 1 (02:08:51):
It's not't like they because you're a raw guy, you
just instantly disagree with a SmackDown guy. We don't have
the same ideas when it comes to wrestling. You're a
raw wrestler. That's different.

Speaker 2 (02:09:02):
B Bluid Red United, Yep, the.

Speaker 1 (02:09:07):
Blazz and cribs of Uniting bro hold up the bandanna together.
It's crazy. They literally said, look at us agreeing, and
then Scotstanner came out and beat them both up. So
it was bad. I had here, though, Victoria screaming at
her own reflection in the mirror, and in two thousand

(02:09:28):
and two version of GTV what they called the f
VW f you.

Speaker 2 (02:09:33):
F view's few or few.

Speaker 1 (02:09:37):
I had no memory of this garbage.

Speaker 2 (02:09:39):
So neither did I. Quick Google search was like, yeah,
this was like a GTV thing, But apparently Bischoff in
storyline admitted it was his idea to create some controversies.

Speaker 1 (02:09:56):
Spy on people. Yeah, that's what we're doing here, where
people in the got people in their private moments. That's
what we're doing here. Surveillance you the police. I don't know.
It was weird, very strange. Also Honorbale mentioned here, for
me would be Stacy Keibler just yelling testicles in front

(02:10:18):
of a crowd of people because she's managing Tests. She's
at the w DOT she had the World nightclub in
New York. She's not in Madison Square Garden and she's
at the World and she's going to introduce a Liva
for their first live performance. And then she's like, hey,
I hope that because Test is on a PR tour
because she's managing Test. And they came up with the idea,
the great idea, the creative idea to call his fan

(02:10:41):
base the Testicles. Get it? Do you? But do you
get it? Though? But do you get it? His name
is Test. We don't even know what that means. But
now I'm gonna call his fans the test of goals,
get it? Garbage? So yeah, that's so.

Speaker 2 (02:11:02):
Is it worse to be told to go to the
World or faw York when you're at MSG or if
a show is like in Canada, like what's worse? I
would say, you dog, go to you like right here,
but we don't need you right here. Just go down
the road.

Speaker 1 (02:11:19):
I would say, the Toronto New York thing. You're not
even in the same country. At least it makes sense
to have another like engagement. What are they called activation?
An activation? That's the corporate speak, right there, have another
activation for the show in the city that you're running
it in. Do you have a restaurant there? Just do
it there to me? And she at least got to

(02:11:42):
introduce Saliva, so maybe she got to hang out with him.
Maybe I don't know, it's big show, just like hey, kid,
come here, get on my shoulders, Russell Mannia. Guys all right,
can't get out of here like I'm gonna go to
beer like what No, I'd rather take the stakes to
keyboard position uh in this particular instance, even though she

(02:12:03):
had to yell out testicles in front of everybody for
a nonsensical joke, a sophomoric, juvenile joke that was written
by a man in his fifties. But yeah, that's what
I would go with.

Speaker 2 (02:12:18):
Let me rewind. Do you remember what Jr. Meant by
christ now Whiskey at the Harvard Penn football game. Oh,
I did not hear the results.

Speaker 1 (02:12:30):
Oh hold on, now what did he say? First of all?

Speaker 2 (02:12:32):
Well, so he didn't say anything bad. I I just
he mentioned that christ now Whisky was at the Harvard
Pen game the day before.

Speaker 1 (02:12:40):
Oh it was ugly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:12:43):
I looked that up, and uh, you know, he brought
it up, but he didn't tell us the final. But
the Pen Quakers or to nine victors at Franklinfield, baby
over Harvard. They moved to eight and one after that. Oh, man,
I believe that Pen football. Man, what happened to Penn football?

Speaker 1 (02:13:04):
I mean, it's still you're not bad. They're not bad.

Speaker 2 (02:13:07):
Eight and one man, Harvard was I believe six and
three after that game. So I thought it was kind
of funny that he he So I looked up Jr.
Had Mentioned he was at the Harvard Pen game. So
I looked up that.

Speaker 1 (02:13:22):
I do like they had College Game Day in Philly
for that game.

Speaker 2 (02:13:26):
That's wild, that's wild attention to any of that back then.

Speaker 1 (02:13:31):
College game Day was there for Harvard losing the Pen
forty four to nine at Franklin Field.

Speaker 2 (02:13:37):
Uh. So I'm looking at how about that?

Speaker 1 (02:13:40):
Look at that pen the Quakers.

Speaker 2 (02:13:43):
And though even though it was my worst non wrestling happening,
I popped for Nowitzky Uh saying the Yankees criticizing the
Yankees for buying titles. I thought that was kind of funny.
And Matt Hardy is saying or acting like he was choking,
were sending the New York Nicks. Damn. Still didn't take

(02:14:05):
away how bad that promo was. But those were the
good parts of it.

Speaker 1 (02:14:09):
It was rough.

Speaker 2 (02:14:11):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:14:11):
Speaking of good parts, though, hidden gems on this show,
I got one. I'm started off here. Uh, I'm going
to go with the WWE Cruiserweight Championship.

Speaker 2 (02:14:22):
You Chris don't, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:14:25):
Jamie Noble defending and eventually losing to Billy Kidman. I thought,
if you talk about hidden Jim, when you think about
Survivors Series two thousand and two, you're not talking about
Jamie Noble versus Kidman. However, they had to follow the
six man table match, which was a hot start to
the show.

Speaker 2 (02:14:44):
Which you also don't watch Surrivors Series two thousand and
two to four.

Speaker 1 (02:14:48):
I mean, but Jeff Hardy is jumping off the tunnel.
That's a memorable moment. At least it's not exactly hidden,
and it starts to show it's not exactly hidden when
it starts to show to some extent. Right, this was
second I had to follow that neither guy was really
that over. Jamie Noble barely got a reaction. And then
Billy Kidman debuted as need theme music, so nobody reacted
to his entrance. And who this was?

Speaker 2 (02:15:10):
Did he?

Speaker 1 (02:15:12):
Yeah? Yeah, that rap song. That was the first time
he used it.

Speaker 2 (02:15:16):
Was this a peacock editor?

Speaker 1 (02:15:18):
Oh maybe it was. I thought. I thought he had
that music around the time too.

Speaker 2 (02:15:22):
By the way, I was not paying attention to that.

Speaker 1 (02:15:24):
Well I noticed, and I thought that they did a
really good job of winning the crowd over before they
be before the finish of the match, to the point
that they the fans were cheering. The fans were into it,
and they popped big when Billy Kidmen won. Yeah, I
thought this was a good hitting Jimmy, you want to

(02:15:45):
watch a decent Cruiserweight title match in two thousand and
two with a good finish, exciting finish, and a fun
outcome Billy Kidman versus.

Speaker 2 (02:15:53):
Jamie Specifics, Though, if you really want to watch those
or for looking for something with those specifics. It's it
is a good match the Cruiserweight division in two thousand
and two.

Speaker 1 (02:16:03):
And not great, not great. Raymonsterio is the biggest star
and he's not in the Cruiserweight title match, So that
does what the what they thought?

Speaker 2 (02:16:11):
It's Ultimate Dragon. I don't know if they had him
on a tour and no three or just three, but
he came in and had like a cuple of coffee
and stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:16:18):
But yeah, and then slipped on the stage at Wrestlemening
in twenty and that was it. A boy Ultimate.

Speaker 2 (02:16:23):
Dragons, a twenty two dude. Like if there's one person's
era I don't remember in w W, it's Ultimate Dragon,
Like I mean, I did not remember he was at wrestling.

Speaker 1 (02:16:34):
At twenty What is there to remember?

Speaker 2 (02:16:36):
True, it's true, but he could have been like the
face of the cruiseweight division for sure, But.

Speaker 1 (02:16:42):
They tried and it did not work. When you're hitting
gym z yere.

Speaker 2 (02:16:46):
I think the six man tables match was a lot
funner than I expected going into it. Didn't expect the
cool spots. But you're I understand you saying, Jeff Hardy.
It was obviously my spot of the night Swanta on
off the balcony. But I didn't anticipate me enjoying this

(02:17:07):
match as much as I did, And I didn't like
the Cruise weight match as much as like you and Chris.
But that Billy Kimman's Shooting Star Press man I get.
I WinCE every time I watch it because if there's
anyone that has not done the shooting star press as straight,
it's Billy Kimmen. Like he always curves his body and

(02:17:30):
it's always like he's he's hurt a lot of people
with it, and I just get like, I don't. I
don't like watching him through the shooting Star Press. I
just don't. It freaks me out because I feel like
he's gonna hurt anyone that he does it too. But
the six man tables match I thought was fun, a
lot more fun than I anticipated. And the Dudley Boys

(02:17:52):
reunion at the end was cool. I forgot that this
is where they reunited, you know, after they were split
in the draft, so I thought it was kind of
was like, oh cool, nice little thing. And I also
thought it was funny for what Jack do and the
referee told Rosie to get out of the ring. I

(02:18:13):
guess he was already eliminated at the time. But like
the referees trying to get Rosie out of the ring,
It's like, remindy me the ONLINEUS Chamber of rope Break.
It's like, there's no there's no rules here. What are
we doing't be whoever loses us, who gets put through
the table. That's it. There's really no other rules. So
I said, why why is the ref yelling guy to

(02:18:34):
get out of the ring? Oh?

Speaker 1 (02:18:36):
Well, best spot you mentioned you had Jeff Hardy jumping
off the tunnel. I had multiple spots here. I will
say I will differ from you just because you know,
for you know, podcasting, because obviously Jeff Hardy swanton off
the tunnel was a great spot, but I would go
with it was Caine who tossed Chris Jericho into the pod,
and then the Triple A tossed Sean Michaels into another pod.

(02:19:00):
I thought those two spots just sold the violence of
the elimination chamber even more to me than they're still
great on at Ringside because it's such a visual spot
and you thought it was glass for a second. It's oh,
it's plastic, but like it's still a pretty violent looking spot,
one you didn't see in wrestling a lot at this time,
so I'll give the nod to that. I'll also go

(02:19:22):
with Jamal hopping off the top turn buckle through Jeff
through a table on the floor was insane.

Speaker 2 (02:19:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:19:32):
Also Bubba power bombing Jamal through the table was also crazy.
And then Eddie Guerrero doing a sunset flip on I
guess Benoit's but as he flips Benoit's he Germans Suplex's edge.
That was a really fun unique spot in that triple
threat tag team match. So I had a couple of
spots here that I wanted to mention, but I would

(02:19:53):
go with at least my top one to be the
ones from the elimination chamber where people are getting thrown
through the pod, because you know, just sold the violence
of the match a great deal for me.

Speaker 2 (02:20:05):
Yeah, I put that in my random thoughts that aty spot,
and I was like, imagine if he got the pin there,
like he would have pinned both of them. Then hey,
the Guerrero is one of the tag titles anyway, so
that could have been a cool wedding. Pinning Benoi and
Edge at the same time got have.

Speaker 1 (02:20:20):
Been dope, but they were in a different direction to
extend the time of the match because they only had
a couple of matches on the show. Worst spot of
the night I will go with Mysterio kind of mistiming
his jump with Kurd Angle. Their timing was off in
general for some reason. It was weird to watch for
a second. But Kurt Angle catapulted ray Masterio to the

(02:20:42):
top rope and Ray didn't quite catch his balance and
fell off and fell in the back of his head,
and I was think, oh, Ray might be seriously injured.
He was okay, I guess, but it looked like bron
Breaker taking doomsday device in War Games, which looked terrified.

Speaker 2 (02:20:59):
He was off camera and for a good what three
four minutes.

Speaker 1 (02:21:02):
Yeah, making sure his neck and shoulders were intact still
I'm sure, which they seemingly are because he's going to
wrestle on January fifth, so and he cut a whole
promo about it. So yeah, knocked a good promo back until.

Speaker 2 (02:21:17):
He doesn't need to have it anymore.

Speaker 1 (02:21:18):
But all took was a Deemsday device from Cody and
Seampunk and look at him now. What was your choice
for worst spots.

Speaker 2 (02:21:26):
From the Serio spot me. You and Chris all agree, Uh,
that was the worst spot, but it stinks that it
was just kind of like a blown spot. You know,
Ray yeah not getting that lit or I guess Angle
really not getting that lift because he's the one who
pushed Ray up towards the turbuckle area and just they

(02:21:48):
weren't on the same page. You said it, you know,
it was kind of off and these guys had just
wrestled each other at Summer Slam oh two a few
months before that. But yeah, that was I was a
gnarly landing. You see Edge on the apron. As soon
as Masterio fell, he kind of like, oh, kind of
walk towards him a little bit and just making sure

(02:22:09):
like he's good. But it is weird. Back then you
see landings like that, you don't see the refs react
right away as as they do today. You know, like
any any type of landing that is questionable, you see
refs run right away to the person today. You didn't

(02:22:29):
see that back then. So when I see spots like
that and I don't see the ref like checking on
him right away, and the camera is like on that,
it's not like it cuts to where you don't really
know if they're checking on him. It's like you could
tell the refs it's like, okay, like he'll get up,
and it's just weird to me. I guess it's just
the times back then as better, as I think, as

(02:22:51):
better pace than matches were, because that tag team match
was like great pace as well, like all the matches,
even the women's match was great pace, the tables match
great like I thought that even the Cruise wait, like
any any of those matches a great pace to him
compared to today. But you also have that where okay,

(02:23:12):
like all right, get up, get up, and if it
like you don't get up, and then the raffle go
check on you or something. So I like, I like
how they do it today where they check on you
right away, but I also think the pace thinks. So
it's one of those things where I like a certain
part of how wrestling is today, but I like it
better back then. It's just easier to I guess digest

(02:23:35):
and you think, like I'll cheeze the mysterio, get seriously hurt.
But he came back. He didn't look like he might
have been concussed.

Speaker 1 (02:23:43):
But yeah, we don't know, We won't know. Yeah, now
twenty three years later. Well, let's move on to our
random thoughts. Uh I had to top it off you
with the liverra again, that's weird to say. Uh, let's

(02:24:05):
just say started off with my lord man, why did
y'all choose that name of y'all band name Saliva? Why
did y'all do that to me? This is your fault.
I used to rock with y'all. I was rooting for y'all,

(02:24:27):
and y'all did this to me. Don't do this, I
was gonna say, though. I thought both of those songs
were dope. Debate cha, mama, that's all. Even the Chris
Jericho theme song I thought was five okay, another not
really randomness.

Speaker 2 (02:24:46):
It's funny that they did Jericho's theme song when he
was a heel. He's like like, oh baby, he'll do
it like a Babyface theme RVD. But nope, Chris Jericho, Chris,
good song, good song.

Speaker 1 (02:24:57):
But we mentioned earlier that after the tag title match,
we got a from Chris Nowinsky now and Matt Hardy eventually,
but let's talk about Nowinsky for a little bit. The
Harvard grad who Mince McMahon was desperately trying to make
into a massive heel because he was smart, should probably
should have He was easily the best wrestler on that

(02:25:18):
first season. Got him and Mavin, right, it was him
and Maven. Yeah, but either way. But because if you're
Vince's eyes, if you're smart and Harvard educated, you're a
bad guy. You are a villain, because you're gonna tell
everybody how smart you are. Apparently, and we are let
him in jacket from twenty years ago. Also, but who

(02:25:40):
is Chris Dewinsky And what happened to this guy?

Speaker 2 (02:25:42):
Right?

Speaker 1 (02:25:43):
He seemed like he had a promising career ahead of him. Smart,
good head on the shoulders, you know what to Harvard?
What happened to this guy? Well, his career was unfortunately
cut short due to a concussion and the symptoms to
post concussion symptoms that followed in two thousand and three,
and well, you know, unfortunate at the time because you know,

(02:26:05):
his career ended fortunately for Chris Nowinski and probably there
are a lot of athletes his story doesn't end there,
guess because he is way more famous for being the
co founder of the Concussion Legacy Foundation, more so than
him ever being a wrestler. Right, the Concussion Legacy Foundation,

(02:26:27):
according to his website, is a nonprofit organization that is
leading the fights against concussions and CTE and dedicated to
improving the lives of those impacted. So what is CTE
or what is known as? You know, what does CTE
stand for? Well, let's start off with it's called chronic
traumatic encephilopathy. I worked hard to say that correctly. Okay,

(02:26:51):
I like it, thank you.

Speaker 2 (02:26:53):
I don't like that. I like your pronunciation of it.

Speaker 1 (02:26:55):
I appreciate it. I got it.

Speaker 2 (02:26:57):
It is tough to pronounce.

Speaker 1 (02:26:59):
Yes, But according to the Boston University CTE Center, which
Kristenwinsky also founded, it is a degenerative brain disease found
in athletes and military veterans and others with a history
of repetitive brain trauma. CTE is caused in part by
repeated traumatic brain injuries, which include concussions and non concussive impacts.

(02:27:24):
Nowinsky founded the Concussion Legacy Foundation in two thousand and seven. Again,
this is multiple years after his career. He suffers a
concussion and says, hey, we need to dig more into
this matter. He starts the foundation in two thousand and seven,
and guess what happened that same year? It's the same
year that chrispinoit committed the Hannus acts that we're all

(02:27:46):
familiar with and we don't have to revisit. We've been
there too many times. But in the wake of that tragedy,
Kristowinsky became one of the leading talking heads on television
because of the work he had already been doing in
researching concussions and the new three letter term that people
were rapidly becoming familiar with CTE. It is widely known

(02:28:07):
now in our society, almost to the point that it's
become a joke where people I've heard multiple retired football
players kind of joke about it during the interviews all
my CTE acting up, or people go online and joke
about it all that CTE is not doing good for
him when it comes to football players or even wrestlers.

(02:28:28):
But it's really no laughing matter, as multiple NFL players
and wrestlers who you know had now since passed on
were found to have had suffered from CTE. The only
problem with that, though, is that as of right now,
the only way to tell if someone has CTE is
to study their brain once they have already passed away.

(02:28:52):
Nowinsky and his team have been the recipients of brains
donated from a whole bunch of former of the families
of former athletes, talking Pro Football Hall of Famers with
talking Olympic gold medalist and World Cup champions, and that
list also includes Chris Binwah. In twenty seventeen, Newinsky earned
his PhD in behavioral neuroscience neuroscience from Boston University. But

(02:29:17):
on this night he was cutting a promo with Matt
Hardy about how New York sucks. So yeah, Chris Newinsky though,
despite you know, you know, him getting beat up on
this night by Scott Stein and whatnot. But in hindsight
he's kind of like a heroic figure in some ways
for the work he's done as far as like really

(02:29:37):
trying to, you know, study not really the causes of concussions,
but like how to avoid them and how serious they
can be, and learning the world to how serious the
head trauma can be and how there's dozens and dozens
of former athletes, especially in football, that have suffered from
this terrible condition on a CTE. Because without him that

(02:30:00):
you know, that awareness would not exist, at least partly
without him. We're at a point now where football players
are wearing massive These things are massive guardian caps to
protect themselves from potential head trauma. And yeah, it's not
the swaggiest look, but a lot of football players now.
You watch any game now, and especially in the NFL.
I don't know how much of this is permeated college

(02:30:23):
too much, but in the NFL you'll probably want to
see one guy on the field with a guardian cap.
The most notable for me is the Packers receiver of
Romeo Dobbs, who has one, and I think he got
hurt in the NFCY Championship last year and that NCY
Championship the wild card game. Despite we're still wearing a
guardian cap. So it's not one hundred percent, but it's
a step and the players are making use of it.

(02:30:45):
You see it more and more now. I think they
came out like twenty twenty and other players like, hell no,
I ain't wearing it, and now more and more in
the NFL and in the CLF. I've seen it in
the CFL too, Guardian caps.

Speaker 2 (02:30:56):
And you'll see a lot of them wear during practice
but not during games, so a lot more do wear
them during the course of the week, you.

Speaker 1 (02:31:03):
Know, and it's also permeated like youth sports, like soccer,
people wear that a version of a guardian cap. Flag
football people wear them. And flag football is not supposed
to be, you know, as physical as padded football. But
I can tell you played my share of flag football.
It can hurt and you could fall and bump your head.

(02:31:25):
So yeah, it's it's had a he and along with
many others, I'm sure because he's not like he's doing
it solo. I have had a massive impact in sports
how it's viewed, how it is. You know how we
kind of look at football now and you know back
in the day, you just get your bell rung and
he went back in the game.

Speaker 2 (02:31:45):
He might be like the face of that team. That's
you know, maybe they were yeah for help for the
longest time and then they have comfortable be in the
face of it. But Chris Dewhisky was right.

Speaker 1 (02:31:56):
They have independent neurologists on the sidelines now. If a
guy shows the signs of a concussion, not even like
actually no, you don't know if he suffered one, but
if he hits his head in the ground hard enough
and looks like it was a bad hit on the ground,
they will pull him out of the game. The referees
will get buzzed down and like, hey, get him out,
and they will pull this player out of the game.

(02:32:16):
We just saw it. We see it probably every week now,
but specifically if you're an Eagles fan, Jalen Hurts last
year when he's playing the Commanders and he gets hit
on the play and his head smacks the ground or
whatever and the impact, you know, happens and he tries
to go back in the huddle and they stopped the
game and they say, no, Jalen, come over here. The
referee thumbs up, right, I'm good baby, and as a no,
you're not come out this game.

Speaker 2 (02:32:38):
Like that became a meme, you know, Jalen Hurts giving
the referee thumbs up and you see it, you know,
become a meme and like to your point, you know,
it's cts become like a punchline almost, yeah, at this point.

Speaker 1 (02:32:53):
But that started with Chris Newinski and his and his
team up there in Harvard or Boston University Cushion Legacy Foundation.
And it's crazy to see this guy like just come
out in his Harvard jacket trying to be a douchebag.
Heel with his books, brother's pants on and then but
he's like the face like you said, of this whole
movement of awareness of head trauma and sports, like I

(02:33:18):
said in the military, the whole nine, and how it
can affect people long after their prime years. They have
long lasting effects and even potentially, you know, lead to
someone's death in some way.

Speaker 2 (02:33:31):
So, uh, you'll see him on social media also comment
on a lot of the had trauma, especially football. But
you know he's around, you know, like he's not hidden
in twenty twenty five, you know, like he's still out there.

Speaker 1 (02:33:46):
Yeah, and every time like something like comes up, he
is one of the leading voices. You'll see him quoted,
he'll be on TV, and he's one of the main
people to get to. I'm sure he's a busy guy
because everybody's trying to get in touch with him about
the subject because it's something that's not going away. So yeah,
it's very very integral figure when it comes to that.

(02:34:07):
And in some way, if you got kids playing sports
now they got to worry about concussions. It's the result
of the work that Chris Nowinski and his people have
done since man mid two thousands pretty much. So another
random note, that I had here was that Jamie Noble
was at the time the longest reigning champion in WWE

(02:34:28):
at only five months and somehow, despite being in WWE,
he was still living in a single wire trailer and
if he had to retain the title, he's going to
go to a double wide. That's a big deal. And
it's like he works for a publicly traded company that
makes hundreds of millions in profit and he's living in
a single wide. You're not paying him enough. Come on now,

(02:34:49):
why would you make that a thing on TV? Like
he's just too country? Huh, he just didn't want to
move out, That's crazy. I thought the video that they
played before the title match was dope. What I didn't like, though,
was Michael Cole kept calling Raymond Stereo a kid. It
was like, Mike, that's a grown ass man over there, bro.

(02:35:11):
Raymond Sterio was twenty seven, but to go on twenty
eight with two children at this point, he had just
had a Leah in two thousand and one. Of course,
Dominic was already here, but he was a grown man.
He was less than a month away from his twenty
eighth birthday. It's not calling him a kid. He's just small.

Speaker 2 (02:35:30):
Yeah. Yeah, he had just respond He had just debuted
in that year, so of course he didn't exist prior
to that.

Speaker 1 (02:35:37):
Oh well, that's fair, I guess. But that's all the
notes I had. Did you have any more notes, sir?

Speaker 2 (02:35:42):
Before the tag title mass, you noticed Al Wilson and
Don Marie.

Speaker 1 (02:35:47):
Yes, oh, man, I got that. So it was Tory
Wilson's dad, right, that's who Al Wilson was. His name
is Al and Don Marie. I guess out of spite
to tour he married her dad.

Speaker 2 (02:36:03):
Who then passed away from a heart attack.

Speaker 1 (02:36:05):
Yes. In storyline, yeah, in storyline he died. Al Wilson Wilson.
I don't know about real life, but in storyline he's
long gone. It's just crazy.

Speaker 2 (02:36:16):
Part of why I was just not into wrestling a
lot of this was the reason why I'm just like, man, like,
I gotta deal with this if I want to watch
SmackDown on a Thursday, like I don't. This isn't entertaining.
So luckily that was the only time we saw them,

(02:36:39):
you know, just in the crowd though before the tag
title match, random, random, like time to show them in
the crowd. Why are they in the crowd. By the way,
what are they watching the show for if Torri's not involved, Like,
they don't really have any involvement in any of the matches,
so why show them, you know, I don't know, I

(02:37:01):
don't know. Not a fan of Edge's theme song.

Speaker 1 (02:37:04):
Oh you like the Rob Zombie It was fine. It
was fine. Not my favorite, but it was fine. I
like the current one be to the alter Bridge song better, Yes,
but I didn't hate the Rob Zombie one.

Speaker 2 (02:37:18):
Maybe I just didn't like it compared to the Altar Bridge, so.

Speaker 1 (02:37:21):
I mean that's fair. Again, the alter Bridge one is
a classic all timer, but Rob Zombie was a fine
little tune for when it was.

Speaker 2 (02:37:32):
During the Tie title match. Didn't make sense. Eddie Frock
splashes Edge right, go for the pin, but Ben Wah
comes out with a head butt to Eddie. Now this
is an elimination match, so why would you head butt Eddie.
He's trying to eliminate another team, the champions. By the way,

(02:37:58):
why would you try and take out Eddie? Why not
let him pin Edge and then you attack Eddie after?
That didn't make sense to me. I don't know why
Chris panoit would do that. But I also thought angle
thinking that Benoit hit him from behind with the tie
title didn't make sense. They were trying to further the

(02:38:18):
storyline between those two I understand, But as good as
that match was, I thought those two spots kind of
like didn't make sense. I was like, why would you
do that to angle In Benoit?

Speaker 1 (02:38:32):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (02:38:32):
I thought it was bad. I also thought it was
funny backstage the Big Show telling Eric Bischoff he's got
a regret trading him. The SmackDown was pretty funny to me.
He winds up ending the show's w W champion, but
I thought that was funny. But also we kind of
talked about Big Show earlier him just not being a

(02:38:53):
figure that we really I think the crowd in general
bought in the being like this big mons. I think
he deserved almost like a Lesner twenty fourteen push at
some point, you know, Lessner beating the Undertaker WrestleMania, killing
John cenas SummerSlam Champion for a long long time, beat

(02:39:13):
Roman reigns at WrestleMania. We bought him as a monster
back then. I think he could have done the same
thing with a Big Show. I don't know if they
saw money behind that clearly they saw money behind Lesner,
but Big Show I don't if you booked Andre the
Giant as some type of you didn't need a title
for him to be box office. I think he could

(02:39:35):
have done the same thing with The Big Show and
they just didn't. I don't know. I don't necessarily know
if they left money on the table in general as
a company, but I think he could have done The
Big Show right by giving him like that type of
rowden at some point just due to a sheer size,
like you know, having him get speared by people or
body slammed like it. It really doesn't do him any

(02:39:59):
favors as this wrestling figure to take seriously, you know,
like I can't believe I saw guys, small guys like
Edge spear him and him sell it and stuff like that.
I keep coming back to that, but it's crazy just
seeing him sell a spear. It really really is Triple

(02:40:23):
H hitting pedigrees on him, like really, like really, you know,
it just makes me think of what could have been.
Not that I'm like the biggest Big Show fan of
the world, but they certainly didn't do him any favors
in WW and you know, he probably could have benefited
from a Lesnar in twenty fourteen type push at some point,
and I thought, okay, maybe that's what they were trying

(02:40:45):
to do with Roberts Serizo two that I remember, Oh wait,
he lost the title the next month and then boom,
he's an a tag team with a train, you know,
going against the Undertaker at WrestleMania that time. So yeah,
I wasn't just it make sense to be treating the
Big Show the way they did. They say his attraction,

(02:41:06):
but what did he do? He his attractions were Floyd
Mayweather and Ocubono, Right, that was really it. Like, I
don't see anything else that they used him as an
attraction for wrestling wise that people kind of bought, Like
I bought the Ocubona thing. I bought the Floyd may
Weather thing.

Speaker 1 (02:41:26):
That was it.

Speaker 2 (02:41:27):
And maybe that's like hypocritical by me. I don't know,
but maybe it doesn't make sense, Maybe it's an oxymoron,
but I could see, like the Floyd Mayweather Big Show,
you know, dynamic for wrestle the stage of WrestleMania. Same
thing with Ocubono. I can't say the same thing for
anything else he did, you know back then in.

Speaker 1 (02:41:47):
W Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it didn't. It didn't go well.
I mean he there for a long time. He did
a lot of interesting things and once championships, but like
they could have done so much better with him. And
this is a prime example of like, yeah he won
the title, but like you did nothing with him beforehand.

(02:42:08):
This did nothing after, right, It was more of a
vehicle to get Hayman and turn on Brock and he
loses right after. That's that's tough, man. It's a tough deal, uh,
to to put this giant athlete through who you know
had potential, clearly had potential.

Speaker 2 (02:42:27):
To his debut in the company was great. Everyone thought
it was great coming through the ring, throwing snow cold
to Steve Alsent through their cage, but also wise up
putting the match anyway, I think it was still a
great way to debut him. And then then they have
him lose the man mcfoley and then and then the
corporation turns on him and he's part of the union.

Speaker 1 (02:42:48):
Is the union.

Speaker 2 (02:42:51):
Within within months? You know, it's not even like Okay,
this you know happened in a year or two after
his debut? No, no, no, it happened what two or
three four months after his debut crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:43:03):
It's tough, terrible and tough. Uh. If you have no
more random thoughts, though I do it, I lack ring ropes.
Oh I didn't notice that. Yeah, but I'm glad you did.

Speaker 2 (02:43:15):
Kim Ben going through the crowd to celebrate, by the way,
it was hilarious, Like no one cared, I.

Speaker 1 (02:43:21):
Mean at least standing and clapping when he won.

Speaker 2 (02:43:24):
But like you know, like you see like kids go
to the crowds and everyone's like crowding around him, like yeah,
it's like no, he's trying to scow through the crowd, Like,
so you why didn't he go through the entrance. I
don't understand it.

Speaker 1 (02:43:34):
He's trying to celebrate with the people, baby, trying to
be a man of the people like DDP back in
the day, they were like, nah, we're good. He didn't
know that until he got out there. He had to
find out for himself. But all right, since you have
no more random notes, take us out with some plugs.
Please drink some water.

Speaker 2 (02:43:57):
You can follow me at underscore picone on Twitter and
TikTok uh at TikTok is at Underscore pocone one and
uh follow me a Blue Sky at picone and on
threads at picone Nick. You can read my writing at
crossing broad dot com. You can check this podcast out.
We're still on foxpageon Gambler dot com. Click on the

(02:44:19):
podcast tabu click on straight Shooters Wrestling Podcasts. We're there.
We can see our wrestling round tables from the past
and possibly the future as well, so stay tuned for that.
You can check us out at shooters Radio on Twitter,
Blue Sky, Instagram, threads, Facebook, and Patreon. Also the shoot

(02:44:39):
also shooters pod dot com. From where all the platforms
we are located on are there still try to get
back on Odissey. I don't know what happened with our
Odyssey uh link, but it's not there anymore, so I'm
gonna I'm gonna work see if we can get back
on Odyssey. But if not, you can check out we

(02:45:00):
are on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and elsewhere at shooters pod
dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:45:06):
I am at Vaughan M. Johnson on X I'm at
Vaughan Johnson one sixty six on Instagram at Vaughan Johnson
on Blue Sky. I can check us out on Patreon, Patreon,
dot com, slash Shooters Radio. You can be like Chris
Johnson and requesting future deep dive, and when you do,
you can be like Chris and make a cameo on
the show that we're diving deep into. Today it was

(02:45:29):
two thousand and two Survivor Series two thousand and two.
Next time it could be whatever you choose. We will
be doing Jingle all the way this holiday season, all right,
it will happen because I just remembered, Yes, the Big
Show is in that movie, and that counts. Baby, we
won't count it, okay, Sindbad and Phil Hartman and of

(02:45:50):
course Arnold Schwarzenegger. It's a classic. Jim Belushi's also in it.
He's one of the Santa Claus. So yeah, great, all
time classic. I laugh at pretty much every single scene
in the movie. I don't know how many movies I
can say that about Jingle all the Way? Does it?
Phil Hartman.

Speaker 2 (02:46:07):
Man?

Speaker 1 (02:46:08):
What the Snake's Phil Hartman is? But you can request
it if you want Patreon dot com Slash Shooters Radio.
But until next time. For Nick Pocone, I am Vaughan Johnson.
Thanks for listening to episode four forty eight of The
Straight Shooters and we'll catch you again next week. Hey,
Gamage Wake Up the Show on Oh Yeah, Jiggy

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