REWIND: WCW Halloween Havoc '97 Deep Dive

HALLOWEEN HAVOC REWIND!WCW's Halloween Havoc 1997 took place on October 26, 1997 from the MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas. It garnered a 1.10 pay-per-view buyrate, and Nick Piccone was among those. WCW in 1997 was red hot and the road to Starrcade was no different. With a couple of bumps along the way, however, Halloween Havoc that year was a microcosm of what was to come for WCW. Pretty good start - lame finish. We dive deep into all the matches and happening of this time frame in our latest deep dive!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
And now it's time for a Halloween Havoc flashback. Speaking
of Halloween habit, our latest deep dive was about Halloween

(00:26):
Havoc nineteen ninety seven, way back in October twenty sixth,
nineteen ninety seven, to be exact. We just covered Clash
of the Champions thirty five. What was that last week? Yeah,
which was in August nineteen ninety seven. We saw some
of these stories kind of playing out there that we

(00:46):
see another chapter of here at Halloween Havoc. I'm watching
a lot of WSW lately. By the way, Yeah, big
run for me of WSW.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
I'm sure you're not disappointed, because it was pretty awes.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
And I was just gread to say in nineteen ninety seven,
wrestling in the United States was damn good. And you
said it, this is like your favorite year in wrestling. Yeah,
this is probably my second favorite year in wrestling behind
two thousand, not because anything ww did. I just thought
WWF was that good in two thousand. Yeah, But nineteen

(01:23):
ninety seven, all three of the major promotions in the
United States WWF WWECW were rolling. The thing was, though, WCW,
their undercard was great and they were telling some good
stories in the main event, but the matches, like just
the matches themselves weren't. WWF was pretty much the opposite.

(01:44):
It was like the undercard was you can forget that,
but the main event stuff was great, match wise, storytelling wise,
fantastic stuff. For the w W standpoint, this show represents
what I was just what I just said. Undercard is fantastic,
main events not so much. So. I don't know if

(02:04):
you had any thoughts before we kind of dig into
this here, Nick of maybe just some context, you know,
ninete ninety seven, Halloween Havoc.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
How old were you, by the way, Yeah, I had
actually just turned twelve. My birthday is early October. So
this was one of the first few pay per views
I ordered of WCW. I think it was at a
time where my mom was able to kind of help
with my wrestling fix and with WCW, I get I

(02:35):
don't really beg like I would ask and I would
kind of understand the answer when it's no, but I
would ask anyway just in case. And there was like
a few months there where I was able to order
both WCW pay per view and WWF pay per view.
Never missed one WWF pay per view, But I remember
wanting to order Fall Brawl really really bad that year

(02:58):
in ninety seven, and I didn't get too so, you know,
with the Kurt Heading turn and everything, I just felt
like something big was gonna happen, and then it did,
and I was kind of mad that I didn't get
to see it. But I you know, I got Road
Wild ninety seven, I got oh yeah, Halloween Havoc ninety seven,
World War three, and Star Kid obviously, and that was
what my Christmas.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Money, Starkade Man.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
So and then you know, in ninety eight I kind
of stopped, but then picked back up in the Great
American Bash. Funny enough, I started, you know, I ordered
that Patch of the Beach and then another Road Wild
in ninety eight, so I kind of like here and there,
I missed a few pay per views and Halloween Havoc
to me, you know, we we've heard Eric Bischoff say

(03:43):
that he believed this was WCW's biggest event and not Starkad.
For me, Halloween Havoc just it felt like a big
e like a big event to me. I knew Star
Kid was their number one, so I was like, if
I miss Halloween Havoc I'm gonna like regret it. You know,
Piper and Hogan and a cage sounds cool. I didn't
know exactly that the case was going to look like that,

(04:04):
and we'll get into it, but you know, the visual
in my mind was like, now I got to see this.
You know, there's a lot of great matches on the card.
Rick Flair's getting his revenge on Kurt Heading, Like, I
have to see this. So I don't know if I
exactly begged my mom to order this, but you know
she did, and I taped it, and it was, you know,
one of the few pay per views that year that
I watched WCW, I should say, and I know it's

(04:29):
one that I watched over and over again. But at
the same time, i WWF was picking up steam at
the time, and this was a month before the Survivor series.
So when Brett Hart left, I actually thought that WCW
was kind of going down from what I had been
used to watching in ninety seven. But looking back at

(04:51):
going over this pay per view, it wasn't necessarily a
bad pay per view, So you know, in my mind,
in my twelve year old mind, I was just kind
of like, man, this sucked. And I guess I was
comparing it to Bad Blood earlier in the month with
the Hell and the Cell, and I was like, well,
they can't top Hell and to Sell and I didn't,
you know, they didn't. And I think that was part
of my mind set as a twelve year old that

(05:12):
you know, this sucked that at the time, but looking back,
I don't think it sucked. But you know, that's kind
of where I.

Speaker 1 (05:18):
Was looking at those two shows in particular. It goes
back to my theory, or not only my theory, just
my thoughts opinion about the main event of Bad Blood
was one of the biggest moments in wrestling history. You
think about it, Yeah, really the debut of Kane and
that and that match itself with the Hell and the Cell.
That was expectacle in itself, yes, and the Mattress was brilliant,

(05:42):
But the rest of the show, who knows, who remembers
anything else from the rest of that show?

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well, you know I do, That's not I do not.
That's not to say it's a it was a great show,
but you had like the flag match with Brad Hard
and I think it was what patriotats like that, and
then yeah, uh, the head Bangers lost to the Godwins
for the tig time. But they were bad matches, you know,

(06:08):
they weren't.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
I just that's what I remember Godwins.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
But what I do remember also is before the event,
I think it was all the Free for All where
they announced Brian Pillman had passed away, and that's when
I first heard of it. Obviously. I think that's the
first time they publicly said it on their show. And
I didn't have the Internet back then, you know, I
didn't know anything. So at first I thought I was like, oh,
they're kidding, but then you know they were. They went

(06:34):
on with the show and they said, like he passed away.
It's like so that that was that. But you know
what I remember the most about that is, you know,
them announcing Brian Pillman's death and Helen to Sell and
the other stuff I remember was very very bad.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Right, But but people walked away from that show thinking
remembering mostly the hellm celf. Yes, yes, absolutely, this show
on the other hand, the main event it but you
had Eddie Garrell versus Ray Mysterio, using Nogatto versus Ultimal
Dragon gate O versus Jericho. You know, even Scott Hall

(07:10):
and Nex Luger was good, DDP. Machoman. Everything up to
the main event was great pretty much. You know, there
was some bangers in there, so we're gonna dig it
all the way into it. But let's take a look
at where the event took place, which was at the
MGM Grand Arena, the Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada.

(07:32):
This is a historic fight venue, combat sports venue, one
of the probably the most historic combat sports venue in
the world. It's just from a boxing m m A.
I guess you could put wrestling in there, but it
really boxing. Yeah. Uh, this had Dealo Hoyer versus Floyd Maywhell,
the Dela Hoya versus Paquiao, Floyd versus Canelo, Floyd versus

(07:55):
Manny Pacquiao, just had Tyson Fury versus Deontay Wilder. Wrestling
standpoint had double or nothing in twenty nineteen. But I
think the most infamous fight this venue has had was
not Hulk Hogan versus The Warrior nineteen ninety eight. No,
it was Tyson Holyfield two, which took place pretty much

(08:18):
two months prior, like almost to the day of Halloween Havoc.
And of course Tyson holy Field two is super memorable
because Tyson Evander Holyfield's ear off, and that was wild.
Like think about how wild that would be today in
social media times. Holy hell, it would be wild today.

(08:39):
Imagine what people were thinking back in nineteen ninety seven,
you know, like when people hadn't seen it all yet.
Like we just talked about last week when Raven had
a tongue ring and Tony Shavannis like, what would drive
a man to do that? What would drive a man
to bite someone's ear off in nineteen ninety seven. I
don't know you're gonna ask my Tyson that question. I
do not want to ask him that question because he

(09:01):
scares the hell out of me. Shout out to Mike
Tyson though. But so, yeah, this is a historic fight
venue the wus W got for Halloween Havoc guests. Going
to Eric Bischoff's point, he saw Halloween Havoc as like
a real big event. Let's give it a big fight venue.
And it doesn't get much bigger than the Grand Garden
Arena in Las Vegas. I mean, you can go to

(09:23):
the Garden, that's a big venue. But they wasn't getting
to the Garden. That's you know, in big command territory.
You can probably go somewhere in LA or whatever, but
Vegas it's where big fights happened. Grand Garden arenas where
that they take place. Doesn't get much bigger than that
in the United States at least.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
No, no, And I remember the venue mainly for boxing
and MMA. So when I and I remembered, you know,
WCW kind of did their annual things. So Halloween habit
is from the MGM Grand like what three or four
years in a row they did the same thing, like
the Starcade and Baltimore and DC yeah or yeah, DC

(10:04):
Baltimore was probably a great American bash. I think they
did in Baltimore a few years in a row. So
you know, that was their thing, and they were kind
of I guess they thinking behind it was they're guaranteed,
you know, a certain gate that they don't have to
worry about if they go somewhere else that year. But
really it's all about to build up and at Halloween

(10:25):
having ninety seven, it was the build up of a
lot of long term type stories too. It wasn't just
like the short term month to month type thing. It
was a long term you know, it's savage. GDP was
almost all year long. Luger, Scott Hall. You know, they
were back and forth WCW VSNWO. Hogan Piper was from
a year prior when Piper debuted in ninety six at

(10:46):
Halloween havocs. So you know, it was you know, that
was what made WCW kind of special to me, even
as a twelve year old. I'm like, you know, even
though I fell into that after the fact, you know,
when I started getting the Internet and everyone started making
fun of you know, WCW and their downfall, it was,
you know, age in the cage type stuff with you know,

(11:08):
WF even said it on TV before the pay per view.
I think Jim Ross mentioned like Hoking and Piper in
a cage, aging the cage, something like that, So you know,
you know I remember hearing that. But to me twelve
years old, not really understanding what goes on behind the scenes,
I didn't really care. I was like, damn, it's Hoking
and Piper in a cage like that. Must see and

(11:28):
you know, I wish I didn't see it.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Yeah, we're gonna talk about it, We're gonna have a conversation.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
So I was I was definitely all in at this point.
In WCW, like I was actually watching WCW more than
WWF at this At this point you.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Got good reason to ww like you said, had a
lot of cool stuff going for it. The match with
Piper and Hogan wasn't that good, but the story was
kind of dope like it was. It was just a
lot going on and all that was happening with sting
in the background. It was just a lot going on
and it was pretty good. So on the call for
this show, of course, Tony Shavanni, Dusty Rhodes, and Bobby

(12:06):
Heenan while they were doing the introduction, Chavanni called Ogan
and Piper the biggest cage match in history, which he
was wont to do back in the day, the biggest
night in the history of our sports. And that was
the biggest cage match in the history of the sports,
even though Hellda Suth just happened like right before this.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
I think it was like, see I remember the date,
October fifth, that was the.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Day to go, and that was a big, pretty big
cage match. And I like to think that there was
some bigger cage matches at some point than Piper and Hogan.
Pastor Primes in nineteen ninety seven. But one thing I
noticed right off the top, though, was the Halloween Havoc logo.
I was like, wait a second, I don't remember this
logo at all, and they use it for ninety six

(12:52):
and ninety seven, and I didn't like it at all. Yeah, yes,
I was glad they went back to it in nineteen
ninety eight, A least according to the Post series. Yes,
it it goes back to the old classic Halloween Havoc logo,
but this one was just with the guy's head to
skull whatever. I don't know. I didn't like it holding
in slim gym sign.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, it was different. I think I didn't even notice it.
And I think until the ninety eight pay per view
in the Halloween Havock when they have that logo on
the mat and you know, I'm a mark for that
type of stuff. I love, I'm with you. I love
that WCW did that. It really did set them apart
from the WWF. WWF kind of had things that looked familiar.

(13:31):
Even in nineteen ninety eight. WWF had sets with that,
you know, circle for like Royal Rubble WrestleMania, King of
the Rings. So WWF really didn't get into sets until
like late ninety eight into ninety nine, WCW was doing
these sets, you know forever I can remember.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
You know, they had WWF probably learn for ww's Yeah,
something unique for every show instead of giving them, like
you said, that circle or like they had like the
square with the sign on it. It's just a different
sign but the same like square type of Yeah, but
it says summer Slam on it. So that's what that's different.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
It makes it different, different, different, And that's exactly what
they do now, by the way, with the LEDs, Like, oh,
it's a.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Different sho it feels different, but at least the lads
can have different colors or something like that.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (14:15):
But then they had to circle that they think they
debuted at WrestleMania fourteen and he just kept using throughout
the year. This is weird, but yeah, definitely I agree
with you about the mat, the logo on the mat.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I always like that too, and I was I loved
the slim gym on the ring posts, the like pads.
It gave the event a unique feel apart from the set,
apart from the logo on the mat, like no other
event had the slim gym pads on the ring post,
and I thought that was awesome.

Speaker 1 (14:47):
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
So, you know, Halloween Havoc with not only the set
and not only the logo. The next year, you know,
ninety eight, they had that logo. They brought back that
classic logo, and that definitely was a I think, the
best logo they had maybe in history, like better than
any other logo I think. But yeah, this logo in

(15:09):
ninety six and ninety seven, I didn't hate it, but
I didn't even notice the difference honestly until years later.
You know that that's as much as I paid attention
to detail, there were some things that I just like
didn't pay attention to, and that was one of them.
I didn't realize it was a different logo until you know,
years later.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
I did right away, and I didn't like it, But uh,
I knew you was gonna notice with slim gym ring posts,
like I had it written down, but I knew you
was going to talk about it, so because you just
noticed stuff like that. But these were hard, dude, this
would have been hard to miss. Like they're red and
yellow and they're like padded, But like, I didn't mind it.
It's like to sell the mat like the UFC does it,

(15:51):
boxing matches do it, like they put advertisers on the mat.
Ww just doesn't. And I don't know particularly why some
money making opportunity they just don't reason. I don't know
if it makes it slippery or what, right, but I
don't know. Like like to me, like you said, it
brings a unique feel to each show when you have
maybe the logo of the event there and you can

(16:12):
have different advertisements around it, I don't mind it. And
they did the ring posting here which made like you said,
slim gym for one Slimjeon paid a lot of money
for this for these ads apparently because they got they got,
like said, the ring post they got the ring the
mat and Macha Man was out there with his slim
gym outfit, you know, so they was. They was like, look,
we're paying you all pretty penny. Y'all called look out

(16:33):
for us, and ww came through.

Speaker 2 (16:36):
Now, I do think that I've remember I heard on
something to wrestle was preserved a while ago. I think Conrad,
actually Conrad Thompson actually did ask him why WWF never
really went the way of putting, you know, those advertisements
on the map, putting the logo on the map they
did for WrestleMania at twelve, but you know it wasn't
the same way w CW did it.

Speaker 1 (16:57):
They only did that so they can sell pieces of
the rings after.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, that's true, And I think Bruce said, you know,
Vincent man looks at the ring as you know, the stage,
so he doesn't want anything to kind of take away
from that. So that's why for so many years you
had the same color ring, like the red, white, and
blue ropes with the blue ring post, the blue apron,
the blue mats around it, like you know he did.

(17:20):
There was a time where he only put the stuff
on the ring apron for like the big pay per views,
so like every TV it was just like those that
blue apron. And then eventually they started using the ring
apron for the logos. You know, I get that, but
you know it's like, hey, if you're a businessman and
you you make excuses for why you're cutting people for

(17:42):
and you're cutting costs for pyro stuff like that, well
then what's the big deal with selling advertising on the mat?
You know, put your logo on the mat and then
put the advertising on the mat next to it, like there.
It doesn't take away from anything. It didn't take anything
away from when WCW did it for me as even
a twelve year old. So I don't know if an

(18:03):
adult would really if it would interfere with an adult
watching and they it would you know, be too much,
I guess for them to follow, but I always thought
it would. It made WCW unique and I loved it.
Even when they just had the WCW logo in the
center before they started doing the pay per view logos,
they would just have the letters WCW with like a
circle around it.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I thought that was cool.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
It set them apart, and that's what I love the
most about the presentation.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
And every combat sport pretty much does it anyway because
it's a way to make money. And I don't see
I get. I get Vince's logic behind it. If it's
just he feels it as sacred, then you don't sell that, Okay,
I gotta understand that. But like you said, as a
business person, like not like it's unprecedented, and like you said,
sometimes they cut back on certain things like people's salaries
and pyro like you may be able to sell that

(18:55):
ring and make up for those losses, Like you know,
I don't know, but I know some people they're really
like hardcore about like advertisements on jerseys, even like they
don't want especially in the American sports, even though they
do it in Europe for every soccer, for pretty much
every sport, especially soccer, you see the advertisement more than
you see the actual team's logo. Some people don't like

(19:15):
that that they don't like, like even like on the
NBA jerseys, you see the Nike something like that.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Oh yeah, that's true. Yeah, I remember when the six
Squad had like the stup hub and everyone kind of.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Right, But even the Nike logo, even the people who
make the jerseys, they don't want that on there, Like
they don't want the New Era logo on baseball hats.
It's like they see the uniform as like a sacred
place you don't sell it. But like, look, man, these
teams are gonna look for ways to generate revenue. And
if it's a little little square ad in the left
corner of the jersey, so be it. Because it could

(19:47):
be like Europe where it's like you see the Chevy
logo more you see the team logo, like it's big.
You know what I'm saying, like, that's just how it
is over there. No one seems to care in Europe.
And I don't see the uniforms is I kind of
tend agree. I don't see the uniform Is that sacred?
You can at least have something on it. I mean
that's just me.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
But I mean I don't I don't go one way
or the other. I just yeah, for me, it's it
is what it is. Just don't like cover up the logo,
I guess, or cover up the name number. Then you
know it's fine.

Speaker 1 (20:18):
But moving on, that's a lot of talk about the ring. Actually,
I expect to spend that much time on it. First
match of the night, we got Eugene Nigatta versus Ultimal Dragon,
and I wrote here, well, I guess we're gonna have
more ring talk because I'm about to bring it up again.
The sound of people hitting the mat in a w
CW ring. I don't know what it was or what

(20:40):
it is. It just sounds awesome. It's loud, it's loud,
but it just sounds like it sounds different from a
ww F ring. It just sounds like more impactful. Yeah,
like things hurt, like I just I don't know, I
just it's just maybe it's just nostalgia because put the
sound of a w W ring can't be replicated. It

(21:01):
just so it's just it's just like, oh, this is wrestling.
Like it just felt like more wrestling. I don't know why.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, and maybe they had a microphone under there for
some events, but I agree it was like either they're
falling quicker or you know, there's a microphone over there.
And you know with WCW, like that action was like
real action. It wasn't. You know, today, I understand the
kind of slowing down in wrestling matches because you know,

(21:27):
injuries and you know, want to be as safe as possible,
and back then it was And I'm not ever going
to be like Buck in my day b b BH,
Like I'm not that person. I'm just saying like back then,
it just looked, it looked real, and I think that's
what I loved about it, especially WCW. It was like
for me, it was an actual competition and it wasn't
really until WWF gott into the Attitude era where it

(21:49):
seemed like, you know, so close. Steve also would go
in the crowd and brawl with his opponents, you know,
to me, I was like, okay, that's real enough, you
know whatever, Like at least he wasn't in the ring
doing like sunset flips and stuff like that. But you know, WCW,
I mean they were legit moves and they hurt. You know,
they definitely look like they hear, and sometimes the referee

(22:10):
didn't even check because that was just how it was,
you know, like we would see in the next match.
I'm sure we'll bring it up. I don't know if
you know you'll bring it up, but I definitely will.
It's like sometimes the referee just kind of looked at
you and wouldn't move.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yeah, So you know, it's changed so much since then,
and it's good. It's a good change because, yeah, you
don't want anyone to get hurt. But WCW action in
the ring definitely looked more legit than even like sometimes
the ECW and he you know, I remember thinking, oh,
ECW is the real thing. WCW and WWF for fake,
but you know, the ring action and the moves definitely

(22:51):
looked more crisp.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yeah, it was just I don't know, it's just something
about the sound the mat meat just makes me feel
good inside. But that's weird, but it just how it was.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
By the way, does decide the nitro ring? Did you
know that they had a light under the ring and
that's why when the lights were off, the nitro signs
would uh kind of like blow in the dark.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
I did not know that interesting art, something new every day.
I didn't know that at all.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Okay, look cool. I didn't do that on paper views,
but on nitro looked cool.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
I never noticed that one time, one time in my life.
But you noticed it because that's what you noticed. That's
that's what I just thanged you on. Before they got
into the ring, I was wanted to mention that Nagata's
vest I don't know what the hell that was, like
some foam dragon balls or the type of thing he

(23:48):
had going there, don't know what it was. Ultimate Dragon
got used to a spiral. This time he was ready.
It didn't scare the hell out of him. This time.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
He walked like ten thousand feet first, and I was like,
I like, I'll stop here.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
Right, So good for Ultimate Dragon is a step up there.
I always enjoyed Mike Taney on commentary. I think he
gets overlooked as the professor that he was supposed to
be in back in w CW. I know some people
people might remember him as the play by play for
TNA for Impact, and he was okay in that role,

(24:25):
but I think as a professor, as a guy who
was breaking down the Japanese and the Mexican wrestlers, he
was fantastic in my opinion. He talked about this match.
Let's talk about even though there wasn't a title on
the line, but there's like serious ramifications in that. Uh
you know there's big paydays at Steak in Japan and
in the US, and you know, just like those little

(24:47):
things that even without a title on the line, it
still gave the match stakes. Yes, And I think Tony
mc tiney was really good at that. And I'm gonna talk
about him again later on one real quick thing. I
forgot to mention this last week because it was a
TV show, but I wanted to mention something else that
they said in w's w con terry that made total
sense that I don't know why they wouldn't do this today,

(25:10):
but classes the champions. Tony Shavani talked about the TV
break and how if you know they took a TV
they took it a commercial break during the match. Now,
they didn't happen on Halloween, Havy, it was a pay review,
but he talked about how if the match finished during
the commercial, they would show the replay when it came back.

(25:30):
It's like, Wow, that just makes total sense because you
just tell the viewer this match can end during the
commercial breaks. In WWF Today or ww I should say,
the match just magically continues during the commercial break and
magically ends when we're back on commercial break. And I
just love that little touch that you just don't hear
anymore now, like the little touch today put into this

(25:51):
match to make it, to give it some meaning, give
it some ramifications.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yeah, that's a great point. And I'm not sure that's
the only time he did that, but he I definitely
remember hearing it more in WCW at all. Jim Ross
may have started doing it in WWF, but not around
this time. You know. He Tony closed like all logic gaps,
you know, And that's what made me love watching WCW

(26:16):
because I didn't feel insulted, you know, half the time.
And now I'm not saying WWF felt that way in
ninety six, ninety seven, but now that's all they do
is just insult the viewer, and it's like, come on, like,
just treat us like we know what we're watching and
try and make it, you know, seem like at least
you're trying. And that's what Tony did. You know, that

(26:36):
was a perfect example that you laid out. You know,
he and he did that, And they didn't do that
very often. They didn't take commercial breaks very often dorm matches,
but when they did, you know, even on Nitro, they
would kind of show the far shot as the match
was still going on. They would play the Nitro music
and then Tony be like, if this match ends, we'll
make sure you see it what happened when we come back.
And you know, they always cut away like that a

(26:58):
little bit, and it made it seem like, I don't
want to say more real, but uh, you know, I
just I didn't feel insulted. And even as a twelve
year old, you know, I understood, you know, kind of
what I've been watching for this point.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
It's seven years.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
At seven years, I can kind of grasp what I'm watching, So, uh,
that's a great point.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah. And then because today talks about the big paydays
that could get that means Dusty has now has to
mention the pay Winda, which I always love when he
talks about the pay window. It's just nobody goes to
a pay window anymore. But he's he's old school, So
the pay winda back in the day, get when it

(27:40):
gets to go to the pay window. I just love it.
I don't know why I love that so much.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
It's just how it is either way, and I will
echo your sentiment about it. Like today, he basically gave
you a reason why to care about what you're watching
if it didn't involve any titles or anything like that.
And I love that too.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, I thought I thought he was dope in that role.
But uh, this match, pretty basic match, basic match. It
was a good match. Yeah, it was a very good opener.
Nagata wins with the arm bar. Ultimate Dragon taps out
very fast, very quickly, and Sonny Ono hops in there,
kicks his arm out of his arm and pays Nagata

(28:21):
with an envelope. Say, hey man, you know you did
the job. So that was that. So move on to
a backstage. I guess they're doing like an internet radio show,
which you know, back in the day, this was before podcasts,
so internet radio show. I guess the online commentary, I

(28:45):
guess you know audition. This is then you say you
paid for one of these one time.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
This was not what I paid for this, This was
probably something for uh, you would have to pay extra
during the pay per view to get like this was
like I actually paid for an event that was just
broadcast via audio, so it was like a house show,
but there was commentators and stuff. So that's what I

(29:11):
paid for. I didn't pay for anything like the backstage
interview or anything.

Speaker 1 (29:15):
Like that, especially that with Mark Madden held now.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
He'll never be a guest on this podcast.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
No, no, no, no, we're we probably disagree with Mark Madden
on a lot of different things, uh in wrestling and
his sports takes, his wrestling takes. Uh. Yeah, but he's
back there with also another person who probably disagree with
Dick's disco Inferno. The first time, I look, that slipped

(29:46):
out a little bit. I didn't mean too to say that,
but uh, and disco in Ferno at this point is
a television champion who knew. I didn't know you want
a TV title. I knew you want to Cruisewright title
or something like that. I didn't know you want to
TV titled, but Disco is pretty much there being a
misogynist saying the woman belongs in the home. He probably
stills that way today. And then Miss Jackie comes up,

(30:10):
Jacque One comes up and chases him away and almost
beats him up, and Dusty is just head over heels
the fact that Mark Madden got knocked down apparently doing this.
She knocked him down. You see that, Oh, Mark Madden
knocked down. Dusty was on one on this shows.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
You know, we need to market your Dusty imitations on
this podcast. That's what's gonna get us advertisers.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
I'm down.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
I'll make a you know, an audiogram of just funds
Dusty and imitations.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
I mean, he would like you. You're gonna have more, Yeah,
you're gonna have more. So because there's there's some moments
where crazy and I just love it. I don't know
if people dislike maybe. I'm pretty sure before Dusty died
people probably ripped on him for his Deputy w commentary.

(31:10):
I'm pretty sure those people exist out there. I'm pretty
sure those marks exist. I don't know how. I'm pretty
sure they don't exist anymore. Because Dusty's passed on rest
and peace, Dusty roodse And you know, now people get
when somebody passes away, they all of a sudden they
were the greatest of all time, but they were trashing
them while they were alive. Well, we're not that type
of show. We're gonna get people their flowers while they're
still here to smell them and while after they're gone

(31:32):
as well. Dusty was fantastic on commentary. I loved Dusty
on commentary. It's just just like the same way I
love book T on commentary back in the day. And
now people all of a sudden when they come to
the booker T account, everybody loves book T. You on commentary. Again,
I've been telling you all this for years. He's he's
fantastic on commentary. He's hilarious. He's entertaining, which is more

(31:52):
than what I can say for ninety percent of announcers
out there right now. And same thing with Dusty Rhodes.
He kept me entertained, and he was you know, he
had funny things to say, he had some legitimate analysis sometimes,
but he didn't even need to do that. Just beat
Dusty Rhodes and it was great. I loved it. Yeah,
I'm with you so next match here we got a

(32:13):
bonus unadvertised match. I guess they just like, oh, we
don't have enough, We can't fill up the whole three
hour pay per view with the card we got Gato,
Chris jeredgo get out there and have a match. So
twenty something years ago Jericho was on an unadvertised match.
How about that? Might have things have changed since then?

Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, And they actually dubbed over his music on this
pay per view. So we heard break the walls down,
but in our last deep dive classes the Champions thirty five,
they did not Somebody's missing the boat.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, very inconsistent ww network. But one thing I did
notice when it dubbed over his music. WWF's music was
so much better than wsw's. Jim Johnson bona fide legend,
like straight up, but he he was. He was amazing
at what he did. You could just tell the difference
in quality. And I'm not saying w w's music was bad,

(33:10):
it just wasn't great like w w F music a
lot of times was great.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
That DVDs or DVDs they were selling the CDs of
their instance music, that's how good it was.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
It was fantastic. If w cw knew how to promote
and market it stuff. They probably would have did the
same thing, but they didn't. Uh but ww's was okay.
It just felt mostly generic. There had some bangers, of course.
The nWo theme was a banger. Uh Stings like Steam
around his time was pretty good. Dusty dustin Roads to

(33:45):
Steam back in the day, the Natural, that assive banger.
That's about it.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Eddie Guerrero's I think it was pretty good.

Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah. The one he had on this show was pretty good.
By and smooth, you know what I'm saying. I like that.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
I thought it was perfect for even like a wolf pack.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
The wolf pack theme was good and Goldberg scene was good. Yeah,
and Harlem heat. I'll give you Harlem heat as well.
That Harlem heat was dope. Other than that, though, a
lot of it's a very mixed bag of Chriss wasn't
that bad. I don't recall.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Ben was actually just like a I'll send it. I'll
send you an MP three, Okay, that's hard.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
To you don't have to do that up. Go on YouTube.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Is I'll send you a mid eye file.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Or MIDDI is that how they pronounced.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
I don't even know, probably MIDI mid I'm pretty sure
mid Eye. If not, it though my diet, mid Eye
and my die. But outside of those couple of themes,
there's hands full of songs. It's a mixed bag of
like kind of okay, kind of mediocre and just straight
trash like Raymond Stereos. Music did not fit him at

(34:58):
all on the show, like, what the hell was that?
This high flying youngster and he's coming out to this
very I thought it was de Malinko coming out. I'm like,
what is this? It's the Iceman? Was this the high flying.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
The man of a thousand aerial moves?

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Pretty much? It was bad, real bad. Gato's music wasn't
that good on his showy about his music wasn't that good?
But I will say and for those don't know, Gato
of course is one of the main bookers from New
Japan and he is Ocada's manager. But on this night
he was Jared Chris Jergo's opponent, and uh, they had

(35:33):
a good match. And today again I was when I
wrote down here for him, Uh put over Gato so
strong and talked about all the different tournaments, who's compete
again and he had won and who he had beaten,
and it's like, damn, they made he made Gato sound
like a top guy. Of course he wasn't the top guy.
He was in an advertised match, but it's like he

(35:54):
gave him credibility that you know, Chris Jergo needed when he.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Beat Kato's exactly. It's like he was helping Chris Jericho
that whole time.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Right, So, like I put here today was okay as
a play by play, but he was fantastic as a professor.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Absolutely grieve, So did you did you happen to catch
the time where Jericho tried the her and Conrono off
the top rope.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Look, I got that written down I put here. The
wrestling so far has been very good. No weird gimmicks
or angles. Don't worry in complete sentences. Jeez, I'm typing
on a computer. Okay, uh, but don't worry. The weird
gimmicks and angles are gonna come, so don't worry. But
I did hear put here? Jericho damn near broke his

(36:41):
neck trying to do to Frankensteiner.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
How did he off the top rope?

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, it's a miracle he's still walking today. I don't
know how he survived at.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
And like I said, the referee just stood there like
he saw it happen. He didn't even think, oh, Jericho
might have broken his neck. Didn't even go over to him.
It's like they were just like, yeah, whatever. If they
say weren't moving for maybe twenty seconds, they would be like, Okay,
something wrong.

Speaker 1 (37:06):
But what to say? W come on, get it together.
WSW That's great.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
I still can't believe it happened, by the way. I
will never get over that and the fact that everyone
just kind of moved past it.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
But if you're not familiar with what we're talking about,
go back and listen to episode two fifty one send
the Archives Shooters Radio dot com and you'll hear Nick
pacomb Ran for about twenty thirty minutes about concussions and
Matt Hardy and head trauma. It's it's a doozy and

(37:49):
it's worth a listen. Trust me. Jericho wins. It was
a good match, by the way, but he won with
the lion tamer. He did not break his neck. He
is okay, and that's great. Now he's the demo god.
How do you how do you figure it goes from them?
They're breaking his neck in an advertised match to you know,

(38:10):
twenty three years later, he's the demo God, what a
what a glow up? Right? Yeah right, what a come up?
Now we transition backstage to a very strange argument between
Mongo McMichael and Deborah McMichael. When not last week we

(38:34):
talked about them argument Classic Champions wasn't really an argument.
It was just like Mango is saying nope and walking away.
They called that a domestic situation. This sort of resembled
a domestic situation. Know nothing about this at all, but
they had this bizarre argument. Like Debora was happy the

(38:56):
whole time, and he's like, give me your credit cards,
give me this, give me, give me that ring, and
she's like nope. It was weird. Then they both look
at the camera together and like pretty much go in
scene together. Like it was weird. It was very weird.

Speaker 2 (39:14):
She's so the story here, I guess Jeff Jard's on
his way out. So Deborah has a mystery opponent for Mando,
and she's like listing people and then she lists Stephen
Sagal as one of the possibilities.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
And I'm just like, what, like Steve, he's hard to
kill man. That's why you get him. Uh. By the way,
Manco kind of looked like Stephen Sagal. Maybe that's where
she got it from.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Maybe.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
See it's hard to believe that season of Gall was
like a major movie star in the early nineties, like
massive movie star, big toime movies. People thought he was
like really whooping people's asses out here. Steven Sagall wasn't a.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
It was in. Uh will Sasso have like a great
character is like a huge well Matt TV or something
like that. He was always step That's what I remember
the most about Steven Saga. How about that?

Speaker 1 (40:16):
That's wild. I vaguely remember Will Sasso's impersonation of Steven Sagall.
Who Will Sasso Austin did a very funny impersonation of
Steve Austin. Yeah, we do remember that. He did I
think SmackDown one time. It was really good. He had

(40:37):
to de braces on everything. He's actually really good impersonation
of Steve Austin. So check that out after the podcast.
I guess, uh, Will Sasso.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
But we move on from this weird ass argument to
the w c W Cruiserweight Championship match between Raymond Stereo
and a railro in a classic what a transition to
go from something stupid to a classic the very next segment.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Yeah, perhaps one of I don't think anyone would disagree.
It's one of let me say that again, one of
the best WCW matches in WCW history.

Speaker 1 (41:23):
It's up there for sure. It's I mean, if you
haven't seen Raymond Stereo versus Ady Guerrero from Halloween Havoc
nineteen ninety seven, you need to pause this podcast, go
out of your way and watch it. Is that good.
And its crazy to think that Raymond Sterio now is

(41:44):
forty five. He'll be forty six at the end of
this year. This is twenty three years ago. That means
he was like twenty three, twenty two, twenty three years
old when he had this match, Like he's a baby.
That's incredible he had this match. I wrote down first

(42:06):
that Rayvenstereo's gear from this night is iconic. Yes, Like
the purple body suit is something that everybody in wrestling knows,
like every wrestler try to copy in some way take
an inspiration from. It's like one of the most iconic
fits in the wrestling history. Like it's up there with
like the white and gold from like Shawn Michaels of

(42:26):
Wrestlmania twelve, like the one one off fits this purple
outfit from mysterio and how long you have it, It's
up high on the list. It's literally, like I said,
it's iconic.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
And it is funny because they didn't mention it during
the match. And if a lost, this was a mass
you know, mass versus title match, so he would have
to take off the entire suit, so kind of I
don't want to say, I don't want to say it
ruined it for me at twelve years old, but you know,
I think we all kind of knew going into that
pay per view that the people that were watching every

(42:58):
week that right was gonna win. But the fact that
he had a whole bodysuit on kind of cemented that.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
So can't be bucket naked out there.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
But it was funny because he was wearing a mask,
you know, around his neck too. I guess it's symbolic
or whatever.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
But he gave that to a fan though.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Oh I must have missed that. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
he did. He did that back then. Yeah, also Off
copied off Brett Hart.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
We got to mention that, Seth then Seth Rollins costplayed
this when he went against Raymond Stereo or Dominic Mysterio recently.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
I think he did. And I believe rick Set also
had something like this. H. I don't know if it
was any time recently, but you know, when he was
an actual, uh superstar, I guess, I don't know. I
don't want to trash him, but oh my goodness, w

(43:54):
W has not done him any favors, not at all.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
But yes, Seth Rollins did wear the purple outfit at SummerSlam.
I believe Summer Slam this year. Yeah he said rick
O'Shea I spelled chet wrong, but rich. But no, this
has been done before with you know that this particular

(44:19):
gear being inspiring other people to kind of cosplay it
and you know, take a little bits and piece out
of it. So uh, And Raymond Terels gear overall for
his whole career has been dope. Like He's always had
a different color combinations, different themes. Every wrestlem he breaks
out like a different superhero, like like he comes out
as Flash one year and it came out as I

(44:42):
think Batman, and he did Joker one year, did he
let a Joker? There's always something real dope. He does
every year WrestleMania just in general. He always changes up
his look and I don't know, you know, I think
it's cool. It adds to his character, his characters. It
was very colorful and vibrant and having all the different
mask I don't know how many masks man is more

(45:02):
different types of masks. Used to have the masks that
went over like around his head. Then he went away
from the one that had to like pretty much see
the back of his head exposed. Then he had like
a little mohawk there going like. There was so many
different types of variations of masks and gear he used
to wear, like the tights, then he went to like
the bag of your pants when he won the world title.

(45:23):
Then he's now he's back in the tights, he's won
the body suit type of thing, like the question mark
on it. Like it's always changing it up. So yeah,
shout out the rim stereo and is ever evolving aesthetic.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, And I think that's that's part of his legend,
you know, like he you think of ray Masterio and
that's what you think of all the different types of styles.
He were not justicing in ring ability, but you know,
he didn't he didn't come across as you know, like
a like a unoriginal wrestler that just wore the same thing.
You know. I know wrestlers speak their looks for big shows,

(45:58):
but Ray did it for almost every paper.

Speaker 1 (46:00):
But he just didn't just do it. Yeah, he's definitely
invested in his He heavily invested in his aesthetic for
few years, for sure. His music was still trash though
on the show. I don't know what the hell WSW
was thinking giving such a vibrant, bright, athletic character and
personality and giving him Demonenko's music, Like, why would you

(46:23):
do that? Uh? No idea. One thing I noticed when
Eddie Garrero was making his entrance, though, was that the
announcers called him, pound for pound, the best wrestler in
the business. And you can't argue that.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
No, And at twelve years old, I was like, what
the hell are they talking about? And I'm still here
as a mark and I'm just like what, like stop,
shut up?

Speaker 1 (46:48):
But as an adult and I'm like you and I
as a kid, I didn't fully appreciate Eddie Guerrero. But
as I've gotten older and you're you know, you look
at things with hindsight and more mature eyes and you know,
just more appreciation for the little things you begin to realize.
Eddie Garrero, in my opinion, at least i'll speak to me.

(47:10):
And when I say this, just from a I know
I've said Bobby Heenan is probably the most talented person
to ever being wrestling, but just in just from a
wrestler standpoint, just sheer wrestlers, so no managers, nothing like that.
Eddie Garrell might be the most versatile, the most well
rounded talent ever. Like he's in that class of the

(47:30):
most versatile, well rounded people of all time. From he
could do the high flying style, he could brawl with you.
He was believable in both He was a great babyface.
I think he was an all time great babyface. But
he's also a damn good heel when he wanted to be.
He could talk in both sides. He had charisma as

(47:52):
either one like, he could do different types of styles
in the ring. He could be funny, he could be
really mean. He was great. He was he was like
a Swiss army knife. But he can do it all
at an extremely high level. But he's one of the
greatest of all time.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I'm not sure there's more than a handful of wrestlers
that have been really great baby faces and really great heels,
and Eddie's among them. You know, you can point at
Hal Cogan, maybe you can point at Roddy Piper, but
then like Eddie Carrero is right up there, and it's
not a long list at all, and like legitlist, Like
you wouldn't put Roman Reigns up there because he was
a terrible babyface. But you know, like I'm specifically like

(48:38):
you know, you just look at wrestling history right now.
You know, those three might be the top three of
all time. But Rip Flair wasn't like he was there
were people that cheered him even as a heel. Maybe
he's up there, but he was a.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
Much better baby face, was way better as a baby face,
and the as a watch a decent faby face, but
he was classic, quintessential heel.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, so Eddie's right right in that discussion, absolutely, and.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
It's and even just his style in the ring, like
he could do the lucha athletic you know style, or
he can do the technical style like he had Maxes
with Ben Wile where they were Matt wrestling and stuff
like that, and he was right there with him he
could brawl, which he could fight. He at the like
the parking Lot bra with John Cena where they you
know in that circle, that the Iron Circle, I think
they called it whatever it was, whatever they called it.

(49:28):
Either way, it was a bra. It was a fight,
and it was He was believable in that he could
pretty much. There's nothing he couldn't do as far as wrestling, Like,
I don't you know there Originally it wasn't a flaw
in his game. Obviously he had his personal demons outside
of wrestling, But when he was in the ring, I mean,
who could do Like Steve Auston wasn't as versatile as

(49:49):
Eddie Garrell. Steve Alston wasn't doing lucha libre stuff. And
obviously Eddie Garrell was born into that. His his family's
legacy is Lucia libre. They're all loucha doors. But even
if Steve Alston went to a school and trained in
that style, I don't know he could pull it off.
That just wasn't his thing. Steve Aulston could do a
lot of other things, but they couldn't do that. And also,

(50:13):
like I said, Eddie could also do what other people did.
He was I don't know I can go all day
about Eddie Garrell, but he really was among the greatest
of all time. I know people love him. I know
people you know have nothing but respect for him look
back on his career. Finally, but I think you could
also include him in more conversations about the greatest of

(50:35):
all time, like I think people mentioned, oh, Steve Awson,
the Rock Flair, Shawn Michaels, Brett Hart. I think Eddie
Garrel deserves to be on those conversations on a more
consistent basis my opinion.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Yeah, I don't think he would find many that disagree
with you. The only ones that might be like, oh, yeah,
well how much did he draw? Blah blah blah, and
don't talk about that. But we talk about character, we
talk about everything that you listed. He's up there, man,
He's absolutely up there.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Yeah. Uh. But as far as it's match though, uh,
getting into it, Raymond Stereo, Man, he was doing some
incredible stuff. Yeah for not just nineteenninety seven standards, but
he was doing some wild stuff by today's standards. But
you can only imagine what people were like when they
saw this for the first time in nineteen ninety seven.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Yeah, he did.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
He did the springboard backflip DDT.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
That was ridiculous. Re I don't think anyone. I don't
think anyone could ever do that again. That might be
like one in one in a million, you know. That
was incredible.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Aj Styles has done something similar to that. It wasn't
inverted DDT and he like dropped the guy like straight down. Man,
this was straight up DDT, like a fluid, smooth boom
all like one fell swoop. The backflip it was that
was like damn, that was crazy.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Then he did goat yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, because he could base the luta doors because he
was bigger than all of them, a lot of them.
Then he did the the front flip. He front flips
lands on Eddie Garrel's shoulders. Out of so he did
the flip out of the ring, landed on Edie Garrel's
shoulders and then turned that into Hurr corona.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
When he was like two inches off the floor, It's
like what you would think he's just gonna fall on
the floor, but nope, he.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Did it so crazy. Then he did the finish was
the and by the way, in between all these massive
moves from Masterio Edite Garrel dictating the entire pace of
the match, like he's beating the hell out of Raymon Stereos,
tearing out his mask. You can see that he has
the eye make up around his eyes.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
There's no there's no lulls like he might have like
rest holes, but throwing the rest holes. He was doing
all that, so you were emotionally involved at all times.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Yeah, that's a fantastic point that there was no lulls,
like you said. But at at the end, Mysterio pulls
off what Eddie has him up in a razor's edge position.
He's going to the top. He's gonna hit him with
the razor's edge when the top rope, Mysterio reverses this
like somehow leaps backwards or something like that into a

(53:25):
Hurricanana takes him off the top rope with the hurr
Kanana pens him and wins the match. Crazy and it's like,
I don't know how he even did that. Then he
won and people were going crazy. The announcers were going crazy,
And I wrote that watching Mysterio in the nineteen nineties
was like watching the dunk contests. The announcers every time

(53:47):
he did something big, like he just jumped off the rope,
they went oh oh, like they were going crazy. It's
like I wasn't watching a wrestling match anymore. I was
watching the dunk contest because people were just going bonkers
for It's like and One mixtape. You remember and one
mixtapes back in the day, Sure you don't. But for
those who don't remember, like U, huh, I know what

(54:10):
and one is? You don't remember the an one mixtapes? Though? No,
come on, man, man what I when? I didn't. I
didn't do any of that I had to. I didn't
do it neither. I didn't play basketball like that. I
gotta know. I wasn't. I wasn't involved in all that.

(54:31):
I went to wrestling.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
I went to wrestling message boys boards and complained about
John Cena and.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
I could put the ball, bet my l I could ball,
But I wasn't doing the stuff they was doing. But
it was like the hottest thing on the streets in
the late nineties other two thousands. You got your hands
in an one mixtape, everybody's at your house trying to
watch it. They was doing crazy stuff, and every time
they did some crazy crossover and made somebody fall and
break the ankles, it was like, oh snap, he did that.

(54:57):
He did this, and he did that, Oh oh my god,
and it's like wow, his bone is hanging out of
his ankle. You can see it coming through his skin
like it's crazy. Like it was wild alley oops and
stuff like that. And you didn't even know what the
score was in these games. It's just you just saw
the moves. You just saw the crazy handles and you
know the crazy ways they didn't you know, like I said,
oops and stuff like that. But that's that's what watching

(55:18):
a Raven Sterio match felt like to me, especially this one,
but him in general in the nineteen nineties was just
off the charts.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Yeah, I always was. I was, uh, I hated you know,
when he was like a filthy animal and he lost
his mask and any of that. But like his whole
WCW run man, it was it was like this, like
he might have changed characters, but you know, he didn't
wrestle like differently.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
And he's even doing.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
This stuff twenty three years later. I don't remember the
last time he wrestled, but you know it wasn't twenty
twenty and he's still doing stuff like this. It's absolutely bonkers.

Speaker 1 (55:58):
Well he's wrestling, he'ssting after ours earlier this year. I know, yeah,
I might have wanted to forget that, but.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Well, yeah I'm not. I'm talking no horror shows here.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Oh okay, okay, that's fair.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
But like even when he came back at the Rubble,
he's not wearing those baggy pants, He's wearing tights. Like
he looks like the Ray Maisterio of nineteen ninety seven. Yeah,
I mean, I mean, maybe I'm over over you know,
stating it, but like rain Basterio ninety seven was goat status.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Yeah. Again, he was doing stuff that other people just
weren't capable of doing.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah, he was anything like that, and then you had
really all the cruiser rates for doing that stuff. But
Mysterio was kind of like a level above and you
know I enjoyed watching it. I didn't watch, you know,
wrestling for that type of stuff, but you know, when
that stuff came on, I was watching it just because
it was different. You know, it might not be in nWo,
might not have been you know, Hal Cogan and Piper

(56:55):
or Sting, but you know that's that stuff also kept
me hooked even as a twelve years world.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah he was. He was dope and he's still dope.
Shotutory myxterio. Yeah, he's a.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Legend getting his family jobs like it's awesome.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Nepotism works out sometimes with some people. It works out
for some people but doesn't work out for others. Good,
but I am maggerating, Stereo, get your people some work,
get them some.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Money, you know, and shout out to Dominic. He's been
tearing at opera right now. As you know, the wrestler w.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
He got a great teacher in his pops's right, got
a great teacher dominant towers over his dad. I don't
know if he could do all this stuff his dad
used to because his dad was smaller. Uh, but he's
got a future. Clearly he's got a future. He can work. Yeah,
he's definitely much better than I think people expected from him,
given that he hasn't been like an independent workering like that.
I think people always look at if you haven't worked

(57:50):
independence or nothing like that. We haven't been training at
the performance center for a couple of years, You're not
gonna be any good. It's in his blood, man. Some
people just naturally gifted and they can they can do
this stuff. And it's not everybody, but Dominic's ask some
good teachers. He's working with Seth Rollins, like Seth Robins
knows what he's doing, Buddy Murphy knows what he's doing.
So they're definitely helping him. But he's also got a

(58:10):
great teacher in his pop and uh so, yeah, shout
out to the to the Mysterio family. I know that's
not your actual name, but your family still you're still family.
Moving on, though, we go to a black and white
promo from Hall Cogan Eric Bischoff, who hal Cogan says
he feels unsafe because Sting has been, you know, chasing

(58:33):
him around for pretty much the entire year, and he
doesn't want to do the cage match if Sting is
anywhere near the building. If he's in the building, he
won't do the match and he will leave. Okay. One
thing I noticed though, well for one, Hogan said he's
worried about the fans. He wants the fans to have
a good match because suddenly that he will. Hogan cares
about the fans. One thing I noticed is that Hogan's

(58:57):
gloves weird. Did you notice this.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
The fact that he had like two fingers cut off
but the others not. Is that what you're talking about?

Speaker 1 (59:05):
Well, what the hell was going on?

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Then? Yeah, that's just what he did. Like I really
I kind of recognized that later on too, like in
ninety seven, Like I didn't really notice it, but you know,
as I'm watching stuff back the last few years, I
noticed that.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
It's just weird.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
I don't know if it's like that grip thing or
if it actually makes a difference, or if it's just
for the look, but you know, it was different.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
I don't know, it was weird.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Maybe he was trying the mandible claw somehow.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
Maybe he's trying on a new move. I don't know.
Uh So, after Hulk Hogan makes this announcement, the announcers
are thrown into a tizzy. They don't know, they can't
even focus anymore, and they're like, what what the hell?
Who the hell did you think he is gonna leave?
What the hell is this? Meanwhile, stupid Michael and a
looks right having a match, and they just can't talk

(59:56):
about anything else but Hogan and his little announcement. Tony
Shavanni is lidded. Who the hell does he think he is?
It's the greatest night in the history about sport and
he pulls this The hell's wrong? With him. They were upset.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
Bro dude, I wrote that down. I was like, Shavanni's
going nuts, He's not even like calling the match, And
uh he did that, I don't. I think he did
it for a few matches. Actually he did.

Speaker 1 (01:00:27):
They even admitted it, like we're not even paying attention
to Yeah, paying attention to it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
To me, that's the funny part of it. As much
as I hated that type of thing, and I think
the criticism was warranted. A lot back then, they would
talk about nWo stuff during random matches, even on like
their B shows like Saturday Night, you know, matches that
didn't ever matter. They would talk only about like n
WO and Staying and Hogan and stuff like that. You know,

(01:00:53):
it is what it is, but during a pay per
viewed or like like you don't need to do that,
you know. It was just I guess they just wanted
to get the point across that the match might not happen.
But then the people that are watching are like, man,
I'm gonna get a refund if this doesn't happen, you know,
so why are like they're hard it over our head
that it might not happen. Like, I'm not sure that

(01:01:14):
was exactly smart.

Speaker 1 (01:01:16):
Like I'm about to watch this pay per view for free, bro, Like,
so go ahead, let him not come out.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
And I'm sitting there for back at twelve years old,
I'm like, I mean, it's gonna happen. Why are they
so angry like it? They wouldn't well, they wouldn't do
the card subject to change type thing here.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
I mean, but in the framework of the story.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Yeah I got it now, I got I got it now.
But even as a twelve year old, I'm like, they
wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
What's the point? Honestly, we know it's gonna happen, so
that that's probably you know, a criticism is like, you know,
we know for well it's gonna happen. Why would you
even entertain this whole thing? What was the point? Man
find out later on just that point.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
Yeah, you're just overshadowing the next couple. And maybe that
was their maybe that was their mo o, but it
was stupid. I don't know why that would be an
objective to overshadow, you know, the next few matches before J. J.
Dillon even came out to do whatever he did. But yeah, yeah,
this is so Mago and Alex right match was something right.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
I mean, this match was forgettable. So Alex Right was cool.
We talked about last week.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
They took forever to hit his music, like it came
out and he came out, and then I hear this stuff.
I finally hear the music, and then he starts dancing,
like he didn't start dancing until the music started. He
was probably.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Music first. True.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
He's like, let's go hit my damn music.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Come on, I'm trying to dance. That's what I do.
I do the dance like alex Right. So they have
a match. Goldber comes out and beats up Mango with
the spion a jack hammer, and then literally just picked
up Alex Right like he was a sack of nothing
and tossed him top of Mango for the pin. Then Deborah,

(01:03:09):
for some reason, who had possession of Mongo's Super Bowl ring,
gave it to Goldberg, and Goldberg was like, man, I
played for a couple years of the NFL and didn't
even sniff a Super Bowl. This is the closest I've
ever come. Hooray. Yeah, Like.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
The only way it made sense that he was to
be like, I'm going to sell this for millions, But
like they were, they made it like Goldberg, guy's his
ring and you know he's he's a little super Bowl
champion now And you know, back then, I didn't understand
the significance of that. I was like, a super Bowl ring,
Who the hell cares about that? But clearly now I understand.
But you know it was and the whole ending of

(01:03:48):
the match was so screwy and it looks so terrible.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
I'm like, what the hell is going on here? I
just like how Goldberg put the ruin the ring was legit.
It looked like the actual bear super Bowl ring. Yeah,
he just put it in his pants what he said
he was then he had on his hand.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Yeah, he flipped it up when Debra gave it to
him and caught it in his other hand, like it
was nothing right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Like, Bro, that's a super Bowl ring. Bro, even back then.
I mean, it's not like a massive ring like the
ones nowadays. Like the ones nowadays are huge, but even
that's still a super Bowl ring. You don't just throw
that around like as somebody who possesses the super Bowl ring.
I couldn't imagine using my ring in an angle. Hell no, nope,
let's let's do something else. Nope, you better call Chicago.

(01:04:31):
Call the Bears. You better call Johnson somebody to get
a replica, because you're not using my ring. He's not
putting this in his pants. He not putting us in
his hands. No, get another ring. I'd be damned if
he lose it, or if he drops it and the
diamonds fall out or something like that, or he's high
five in the fan and it just will happen to
slip off his finger and that fan runs off of
my goddamn ring.

Speaker 2 (01:04:52):
No, so he with Michael, speaking of which, I have
my class ring on my keychain and the the stone
fell out at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
I don't even know when it happened. That's what I'm
talking about. This is why can't be messing around with
these rings. Man.

Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
I don't even know when it happened, because you know,
I don't really wear it, but it saw my keychain
and then I noticed the other day the stone's gone.
I was like, oh, might have been like that for months.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
I don't know, by the way that ring looked, tiny Goldberg.

Speaker 2 (01:05:25):
The thing that stuck with me the most about this
match was just a terrible ending with Deborah going up
and then going down early, and then the ref literally
looking over seeing Goldberg like kicked Mago's ass, but then.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
He looked over and saw it happened.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
I was just like, come ah, man like, and this
is Goldberg's first pay per view appearance because he debuted.
He debuted after Fall Brawl and that was ww's prior
pay per view, so he yeah, this was his first appearance.
I think he was supposed to face Meng here, but
that obviously didn't happen, so they had him on the
got him on the show somehow, but it you know,

(01:06:04):
it made him feel like the big deal. Early. I
remember watching I was like, oh, like, what's nothing special
about him?

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
Whatever?

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
He grew on me clearly.

Speaker 1 (01:06:13):
But didn't he have a match of Mango as dark?

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
I think he did. It was either Starkad or were
Worth three. Maybe he maybe both.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
Yeah, two big old football players, yep, having a match.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
But it was just like the spare Mango. Mango like
lands right next to the ref and the ref like like.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Right by his legs. He just like, nope, I gotta
talk to Deborah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Yeah, that whole thing was just so lame.

Speaker 1 (01:06:44):
But he beat Mango. Asked Starkade five minutes and fifty
nine seconds probably kept his Super Bowl ring and.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Yeah, that actually might have been like for the ring.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Wonder what happened to World War three the November.

Speaker 1 (01:07:04):
Pay per view. We're not live, we're not deep diving
on that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:07):
I ain't got time, but World War three is like
the pay per view that will probably never ever talk
about ever any year.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Now I want to now, I want to watch it
happened at this show?

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Well, I mean like I got I got the ninety
seven one and there was nothing special. Oh okay, it's
funny like their sixty man Battle Royal lasted like twenty minutes.
You know, it's like definitely not like the Royal Rubble.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
Yeah, that is embarrassing. Wasn't that? That wasn't the one
where Kevin Nash is just dumping people out like left
and right.

Speaker 2 (01:07:39):
No, No, that was that was the next year. This
year it was the Giant. Ninety seven was the Giant
dumping people out left it right, And then Kevin Nash
actually came out drussed the sting and they were the
announcers We're literally saying, like is a sting? I'm like,
oh my god, he gotta be kidding me.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
He's a foot taller than this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
And he stepped over the top rope. Maybe you should
watch Maybe you should watch it. You should watched it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Just the just the main event, just the World War three,
the battle oil.

Speaker 2 (01:08:09):
It's it's like that was ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Oh my god. We gotta move on. Moving on two. Well,
first we're gonna get to Machamn. He's cutting a promo
and it's pretty much a slim Gym commercial. Yeah, because
I wrote here they were paying his bills. You gotta
remember Macha Man had a very lucrative endorsement deal with

(01:08:34):
slim Gym. Probably the only reason why slim Gym was
even involved with w's W. I'm sure that was the
case because with Machraman also went slim Gym to w's W.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
And Bam bam and Diesel weren't cutting it in the
w W, so they were like, you know what, Rand, no,
you go to w CW, we coming with you exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
So you know, Machraman took care of his people's and
got like four or five slim gion diferences in there,
snap into it. Yeah, it right. I was gonna say
that later he had the whole slim GM fit. It's
like look, man, they cutting you checks, you rep your set, Like,
look here, I got an ego shirt on right now,

(01:09:16):
they cutting them checks. I'm repping the set Like that's
how it is. So uh. Now we move on to
discoing for though, the mistogynist himself against Jacqueline who. Let's
take a moment to give Jacqueline her flowers, shall we? What?

(01:09:38):
Ww Hall of Famer Jacqueline and one of At a
time where you didn't see too many black women in wrestling,
especially at a high level, she was the one. Like
pretty much like you think what the attitude era or
like WSW back then, Like how many other female black
women were you know in wrestling at the high level?

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Man, that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:10:02):
Not many. There's a lot of blonde, you know, white
women out there doing anything, and Jacque one was the one.
Now you know, it's the same that she was the
only one, but hey, she was doing it and she
was carrying that torch for a long time. It was
the black representation for black women.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Jazz wasn't for another few years. And I think he
was an ECW first really.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Right at a national level, at a top level w
CWWWF she's pretty much the only black woman for a while,
and that sucks because probably should have been a couple more.
And they said there was a couple were coming. You know,
you had Jazz, yeah, Queen Charmel, Yeah, uh, you know
more here and there. But Jacquelin was the one, and

(01:10:43):
she was a badass and she was a legend. Even
by this point. She was out there, uh doing things,
and you saw that they put her over like she
was a badass. She whipped disco in Fernal's ass from
one side of the ring to the next. But Jacqueline, yeah, legend.
So let's give her flowers while she's still to smell them.
And again WW Hall of Famer much deserved for her.

(01:11:06):
But in this match, this was apparently the state of
Nevada would not allow Disco Inferno's TV title to be defended,
so there's like a non sanctioned match, which is funny
because Jaquelan eventually became the cruiseweight champion in WW. How
about that and that's when much retired the title.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Did she eventually win the TV title or w C?

Speaker 1 (01:11:29):
I mean she probably did.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
I thought that was this pay per view, but then
I was kind of like, oh, I guess not you
know my timelines, but it then messed up. But I
thought she won it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
I mean, it's possible I could look up her championships.

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Oh see, yeah, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
She won the YEP, she won the cruiseweight Championship. She's
a two times women's champion WWE. She did not win
the w TW television champion.

Speaker 2 (01:12:02):
Maybe that's just me dreaming then, but I.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
Mean, how many women have won male championships and pro
wrestling that's the smallest too. You can get China who
won an icy title, Tessa Blanchard win the Impact Heavyweight Championship.
Jack With Moore won the ww Cruise aweight Championship again,
Trailblazer Jack Woman. So her flowers that were giving her

(01:12:33):
are much deserved. I would say absolutely so. This match
though beneath her, this match was not This match was
very forgettable, other than the fact that, well, first all
the announcers they were talking about Hogan still, they were
still talking about does he said he went backstage. He said,

(01:12:56):
there was a bunch of people back there, all hew
are broken loose. Okay, well believe that. But at one
point Disco because Disco was just you know, kind of
keeping his distance didn't really want to get into it
with her. He didn't he didn't throw punches, he didn't
throw strikes. Jacqueline threw strikes on him again, whooped his

(01:13:17):
ass plenty of times. But at one point, Jaqueline had
a slight little wardrobe malfunction that people in the arena noticed.
And it wasn't the first time she had a little
bit of a wardrobe malfunction, or it wouldn't be the
last time, I should say, but you know that's happened
here and there. Uh yeah, but uh, that was pretty

(01:13:41):
much it. I thought there was something else in this
match that I wrote down, but no, that was it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
I had something about Steve uh so Stevie Richards had
a sign saying disco versus Jackie girl versus girl. I
was like, oh, that's kind of huh huh. That's not
supposed to be like funny disco stalled. And I think
this was a you know, this was originally why Eric
Bischoff fired this going for oh months before this, because

(01:14:08):
he had wanted him to lose to Jacqueline and he
refused to do it. And he eventually came back and
Bushoff was like, well, you know you're coming back, You're
gonna job to Jacqueline, And that's exactly what he did.

Speaker 1 (01:14:19):
So he's still losing this match. Me.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Yeah, he didn't lose the title, but I think the
the fact that if it was if Bischoff had his way,
he would have lost the title to her. But I
think the way they booked it at Halloween Havoc in Vegas,
it just wasn't able to be done. But I don't
know if maybe he wanted Jacqueline to be TV champion
or not. But you know, I always thought that was

(01:14:43):
the end game here. That's why maybe I just assumed
that she did win it, but I guess not, well, clearly.

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
Not clearly not. Well, yeah, I got nothing else from
this match. This masterss, this mess was begatable.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
Moving on to the next match, the w TW United
States Championship between Rick Flair and a w TW Cruise
aweight champion Kurt Hennick.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
This was the match I was looking forward to the most,
and it is obviously the one that let me down
the most.

Speaker 1 (01:15:22):
So I'm gonna ask you this question. Why did Kurt
Hennick have the cruiseweight Championship with him the United States Champion?

Speaker 2 (01:15:35):
So I was reading reviews earlier that people wrote about
this pay per view, wondering if you know, some people
were gonna say that and maybe give a reason as
to why he was he had the Cruisewight title because
maybe they looked into it. If you do a Google
search for like Kurt Henning cruiseweight title Halloween have like
ninety seven or whatever, and you see the reviews that

(01:15:58):
pop up, none of the main reviews that pop up
right away even mention the fact that Kurt heading has
the Cruise Away title, not one. So I mean, my
theory is that he simply lost the belt, and you know,
they had a you know, he I don't know what
it was a US title match. I don't understand why

(01:16:18):
they couldn't just make up an excuse to like they
did with Jacque line a Disco. I know they would
have to not do with the women versus man thing,
but give it an excuse as to maybe Flair was
okay with not sanctioning the match, so it couldn't be
a title match like something. Just tell us because if
he didn't have the US title, then just it gave

(01:16:41):
you a reason for him not to have a belt.
Don't give him another belt that we could clearly see
is not the US title, because that just made it
look even worse. And it actually so I remember twelve
years old I saw this. I didn't just notice it.
I saw it when twelve years old, and I'm like,
this is stupid, Like what like I almost felt like

(01:17:02):
they I was a mark at twelve years old. I'm like,
they're insulting my intelligence. What the hell I know he's
not the cruiseweight champion, Like, don't give him a belt
just to have a belt. Make up something as to
why he doesn't have the US title, not make it
a less of a I don't know, but I guess
because you know, the ending with the DQ maybe it
would have messed that obviously. That's why I just figured

(01:17:24):
it out, because the freaking ending in the match.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
But they couldn't just they didn't have a backup title
on stand by, like.

Speaker 2 (01:17:31):
Or just put a chair there. Why does it have
to be the belt? Like it didn't make sense to
me at all, the huge letdown and logic holes everywhere,
and it really pissed me off because you know, they
tried their best not to show the title. You could
tell the camera work was like we're not going to
shoot that title. That's why Kurt heading was dragging it

(01:17:51):
with his right hand, so it didn't get a clear shot.
I mean eventually it did get a clear shot. Yeah, yeah,
and then you know he's holding the title up in
the ring before Flair comes out, and you have the
wide shot so we can't see you know what title
it is, but by that point we already noticed the
Cruise Away title. And it's just the most ridiculous thing.

(01:18:12):
My theory is just he lost it. But I haven't
seen anything online that could kind of corroborate that they didn't.
I listened to eighty three weeks or Bishoff see it
if they would talk about it, but they just glossed
right over it. And so I don't know exactly what

(01:18:33):
why they needed to do this, but it was stupid.
It was Rick Flair having the WWF tag team title.
This Urvivor's series ninety one stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
What this thing is confusing? I just have a backup
title one standby, like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:46):
I don't know, I don't know foam WCW belt.

Speaker 1 (01:18:50):
So oh yeah that would have Yeah, that would have
been great. You what did he do to Raybisterio that jerk. Wow.
Hennig comes out with a sleeveless Ric Flair robe and
that was cool.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
Wasn't that the same robe he gave the Hogan though,
I was like, oh, I guess Hogan gave it back.

Speaker 1 (01:19:09):
I don't know, lose track of all those robes. Flair
runs down, no robe and starts beating up on Kurt Hennig. Meanwhile,
Tony Shravanni is still man, That's what I'm still talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:19:24):
That's what I wrote it down. I was like, Tony
pissing me off with all this talk about Hogan, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
Bro, it's been three matches and he's still like that,
no good piece of nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
And this is Flaire. This is the big This should
be like the blood match of the pay per view, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
This is the best title. Yeah, this is the match.
Shut up? He was he was going in, he was
going really in. Uh. One thing. I noticed that Dusty
was talking a lot about concussions and in nineteen ninety seven,
and they said that he thought that Flair came back
too soon for this match. I find that interesting given

(01:20:05):
what we know now about concussions, it's not what we
knew back then. But even back then, he was like yeah,
you know, mess up your brain there, baby is not
good for you. And too many hits, the knocking it
might you know, it might mess you up. A bad baby,
you know. So, But like you said, the finish came
when Flair put the belt, the Cruiseway title over Hennick's face,

(01:20:29):
kicked it into.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
The battle out. It's not even like facing his face.
I was like, that doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (01:20:38):
Yeah, this was all this is all messed up.

Speaker 2 (01:20:40):
But you could have done better with a chair, you know.
It's you know, it would have sounded cooler too. But
I mean, my favorite part you talked about, Dusty have
a favorite commentary part where it's like Bobby Heenan is
like saying all these glowing things about her heading and.

Speaker 1 (01:20:58):
It's like, why do you like? Shut up?

Speaker 2 (01:21:00):
Bobby, Like why are you like? And it's funny because
they play off their passed a lot. So you know,
like if you're a wrestling fan, you know, Bobby Heenan
was with Rick Flair, was with Kurt Headings, and you
know he's you know, trying to I don't know, so convent,
you know, talking badly about both of them, and it's

(01:21:20):
just so funny to me and I guess Bobby said
something about Kurt heading uh, you know, being great or
something like that, and Tony says, Albert Bell could hit
home runs, but nobody likes him either. He's so mad
man and.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
People just like Albert Bell. I didn't know that, Yeah
he was.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
He seemed like a jerk on the I just remember
him from running over that second baseman when the ground
ball came and you know, he the second baseman went
to field it and Belle just like took him out.
That's all I remember about Albert Bell. Unfortunately. Yeah, I
know he was a big power hitter and stuff like that,
and with the Indians and the White Sox and stuff.
So I did you know. This is when I was,

(01:22:02):
you know, pick into baseball too, so I knew that
reference just maybe laugh. But yeah, other than that, it's
like and but I will give Tony credit for this.
He absolutely freaked out at the end when the referees
came out and they were trying to pull Flair away
from Headache, and they're like what are they doing? Like,

(01:22:23):
you know, why do they do this? They let him
let him at him because why would why would you
let pull Flair away from the guy that you know,
almost ended his career like let the WO deserves it,
Like let him go out of the You don't you
guys don't do this when the MWO is messing up
WCW guys, Like what the hell's going on? Tony was
super pissed, and that almost made up for how annoying

(01:22:45):
he was the last three matches.

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
Tony was big mad at NW on this night. He
had it out for all of them. It was so funny.
Why did they let him mat it? Let him have it,
let him go, let him fight. It's like, uh, well,
the making the band too. Let him fight, No, let
them fight. That was Tony Shavanni on this night because
Flair was just beating up all the reps whoever came in.

(01:23:09):
He was just knocking them down, looking right, and then
they finally got ahold of him and you know, dragged
everybody away. So Tony Shavanni had none of that, though.
He wanted everybody to get beat up, especially Kirk Heinnick.
Transitioning from that, though, we'll go back to the stage
again to the Internet radio show with Mark Madden where
Machell Man is there and he's talking. Nothing really comes

(01:23:29):
of it, so that's it. But we come back out
into the arena with Gene Oakland and James J. Dillon,
of course was the authority figure of swords On and
ws W at this point, and he is cutting this
promo with passion. He is angry, he is fired up.
JJ Dillon was, and he says that WSW had Hawk

(01:23:55):
Hogan's terms about his main event match with Piper. They
had his terms in writing and notarized, which got really thinking.
It's like, man, how fast did they get this damn
thing notarized? I usually don't happen like they like within
a couple of hours, like somebody's walking around with a
notary or something like that in their luggage.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
Like I guess nineteen ninety seven, WW was a way
for the future.

Speaker 1 (01:24:22):
That was I don't know that was a that was
a quick notary notarization, if that's a word. But they
had it down in writing. Bischoff is mad. He doesn't
like what JJ Dillon did. He's like, you don't have
to stroke. He kept saying, you don't have to stroke,
you don't have the stroke. It's like, all right, we
get it. You like using slang terms back in ninety seven,

(01:24:45):
you know, we get it. But Apparently Bischoff said at
the end, if Sting shows up, the nWo wants nitro.
They wanted to control nitro. That turned out to me
a lot of nothing. At the end of the night, I.

Speaker 2 (01:25:02):
Think, yeah, that was a random placement of that that
eventually turned into something months later. But now it's like
it was. It seems so weird because there wasn't anything
that they said. I mean maybe in passing, but there
wasn't anything about WO taking over night Trow at this point.
So it's like we want Nightro. It's like, what shut up?

(01:25:25):
That twelve year old may.

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
What shut up? Shut up?

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
If you ain't so tough, how do you know what
I sounded like?

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
Tough? Hey man, that's not cool. It's just a just
a wild guess. It's w c W show man tough.
Maybe to meet you, to meet you to school. You're
at the school at the flagpole, man put you if
you chocolate milk or something.

Speaker 2 (01:25:54):
That's like a hybrid between me and Jim Cornett.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
I wanted to finish it off with a Jim and
that thing, but that's a family show. God damn me
Bee at the flagpool. Beat you up? Man?

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:26:14):
Moving on, we got Scott it's funny.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
It's funny to be By the way, why was Pitch
Off Show mad? Like they gave Hogan everything he wanted,
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:21):
Because they didn't want to do the match. That's why
he was so mad. He was a coward, you know,
I got you. God damn, he's a coward. Didn't want
to fight. What's wrong with him? But moving on, we
got Scott Hall going against Lex Luger. We talked about

(01:26:43):
Lex Luger, I think for six weeks on a row
on the show. This has really become the next Lex
Luca show.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
God Man Cracks. Paul Coan was always like called him
flex Lexi.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
It's like, dude, you're don't remember that at all.

Speaker 2 (01:26:56):
Yeah, he's like in the middle of a serious promo
going against Lex Luca and he's like, yeah, he put
me against Flexi Lexi and I'm gonna beat him up.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Yeah, it's just funny. Hawk Hogan thought that was hilarious.

Speaker 2 (01:27:09):
Oh dude. He had the greatest nicknames, my greatest I
mean worst.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
Flexi Lexi. Yeah, okay, this is what happens when you
let the boys do their own creative.

Speaker 2 (01:27:20):
I guess that's why he lost the road wild.

Speaker 1 (01:27:24):
Flexi LEXI. Uh. There was a special referee for this match.
It was it was Larry's Abisco, the living legend Larrus Abisco,
who is a legend. I mean he had a sold
out the Shade Stadium with Brunos and Martino back in
the day, former a w A champion. He was, he
was a guy. He was in the Dangers Alliance, which

(01:27:46):
was a dope ass group that I don't think it's
enough credit the Dangerous Alliance. Yeah, Larry's Abiscos. Give him
his flowers while he's allowed to smell them, right, yeahs, yeah,
I mean why not. I'm just looking up the titles
he's won.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
Uh. Not the greatest referee though, I mean, I mean,
if you.

Speaker 1 (01:28:07):
Go by he's a a w A, America's Heavyweight Champion,
America's heavyweight Champion, and he's the world championship. Okay, but
if you go by the usual referee standards, No, he
wasn't great, but called it down the middle.

Speaker 2 (01:28:22):
For the most part, he told he literally told six
get out, but then six never left and he was like, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
He wasn't demonstrative enough. Usually referees do like a whole
big thing before they throw him out. He pointed, he
didn't do enough. That's why six didn'take him serious enough,
that he didn't do the big gestures. And he should
have learned from Arles Robinson how to throw people out.

Speaker 2 (01:28:45):
That's why he choked the hell out of them.

Speaker 1 (01:28:49):
We'll get to that. We'll get to that, But before that,
we got lex Luca's entrance and he's walking out and
he gets just an obscene amount of pyro, to the
point that Dusty Roads is like, hey, can you him? Baby?
Can you hear me? Baby? I can't hear nothing, baby,
Oh no, can you hear me? Can you hear it?
It wasn't really that loud? All right, all right, big

(01:29:09):
dust all right, dream baby, I can't hear I can't
hear nothing about the spire with baby. It just reminded
me of again, you don't know because you don't watch
the Pell Show, but the older guys like halaaaa, can
you hear me? That's what it reminded me of. I can't.
I can't keep making these references, Nick, and you don't

(01:29:31):
know anything about them. But you know, I'm just left
hanging here.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
I'll get, you know what, I'll get Chapel Show well,
what are we talking about? Can I find it?

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Didn't do anyone mixtapes streaming?

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
Are they on YouTube? Like? Because I did watch it,
but it was so long ago.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
We gotta do better. I'm not sure if Chappelle show
is streaming, but no, excuse you, the reb's come on
Comedy Central like.

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
Well, I hate watching TV like reruns. I only watched
streaming reruns and live sports or live stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:30:10):
Make an exception for Chappelle Shaw, you know what I might?

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
I just might.

Speaker 1 (01:30:16):
You said it like you don't defy it like defiance.

Speaker 2 (01:30:19):
I didn't mean it like that. This is how it
came out.

Speaker 1 (01:30:22):
You know what I will? All right, where were we
talking about Larry Sibisco? We're talking about Lex Luger.

Speaker 2 (01:30:34):
Scott Hall six defyings Episco's order to go to the back.

Speaker 1 (01:30:39):
Yeah, we got that. Uh he's really yelling at him
that there's one, two, three, three that a lot of
that going crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:30:50):
By this point, Tony Shiavanni had totally forgotten about Halt
cooking and Sting Sting Piper because uh j J. Hilla
made everything right, he.

Speaker 1 (01:31:00):
Made everything Okay, thank you JJ. All right, stop talking
about it now, Scott Hall eventually got mad at Larry's
Abisco and started shoving him. Larry back dropped him out
of the ring. People went crazy. Eventually Bischall comes out

(01:31:21):
and he starts arguing, arguing with Larry Sibisco, which this
is pretty much the beginning of their feud, which also
culminated at Starkad, which is like, Okay, had a lot
of yearlong fuse kind of culminated there, which is pretty
much the purpose of that show. I wish WW kind
of did the same thing, Like with WrestleMania. It's like

(01:31:42):
they'd be starting feuds there, they'd be throwing something together there,
don't even really like, but here we are debts. W
This is two months out from Star Kate and they're
just starting that Sibisco Bischoff thing and carried it all
the way until uh Starcad. But you know, they get
into it. They're arguing eventually haul So what happens. Waltman

(01:32:08):
gets into the ring, kicks Lex Luger in the back
of the head. Pou kicked him right in the back
of the head. Wow, that that happened. While Larry's Abisco
was arguing with Eric Bischaff, Scoy Hall, hiss to racers
edge and demands that Larry's ebisco counts to three. Larry
hit one, two, hesitated for a second, It's like ad damn,

(01:32:33):
and then three, reluctantly counted to three. He did call
it down the middle. He did call it down the middle,
but then something weird happened. Then he demanded to look
at the replay, which let's let's let's pull back here
for a second, because instant replay was a thing in
the NFL in the nineties. It's just like, why all

(01:33:01):
of a sudden did Larry's abisco get to use replay.

Speaker 2 (01:33:03):
Because the wo one and he's like there had been
something nefarious going on here.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
And that's fair. I just always wondered why, And I
guess I get why they don't ever do it in wrestling,
the instant replay type of thing, I get because heels
would never get be able to get heat. He would
never be able to cheat because if they cheated and
then referee goes, oh, I saw the replay. You cheated.
You just qualified the decisions reversed. The Heels would never win.

Speaker 2 (01:33:32):
And that's coming on how they got around it, because
they would always say the referee's decision is finals, so
but then you would have like a second referee come
out and show them a replay. I remember on Raw
one time Bobby Heenon showed a replay to a referee
they like, I think it was Shawn Michaels at the time,
had his foot on the roof or something like that.
So you know it has happened. But it it's funny

(01:33:53):
when it's like, why doesn't happen all the time? Then like,
if it's that easy, like just do it all the time.
If you lose by cheating or whatever, you could just
tell the ref and it makes the ref look bad
if they decide not to check the replay and they
look like turks, right, it looks stupid.

Speaker 1 (01:34:09):
But Larry's abisco checked the replay on this night and
he saw the Sean Waltman six pack or whatever you
wanna call him, jumped in the ring and kicked lex
Luga in the back of the head. So they're.

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
They're showing the replay and he's like, oh no, no.

Speaker 1 (01:34:26):
Instead of just reversing the decision, I think, what would
the normal thing to do, he restarts to match, even
though lex Luga has been kicked in the head. Probably
shouldn't wrestle anymore, right right, restarts to match. Sky Hall
is like halfway to the backstage, He's like what he

(01:34:46):
is mad? Eric Bischoffer is jumping up and down. He's
so angry. He's like throwing a temp a tantrum. He's angry.
They run back to the ring. Sky Hall gets in
the ring and it's all up in Larry's Ebisco's face.
What you're gonna do, Chico, what you're gonna do? Huh huh,
And then he shoves Lazibisco. Larry'sibisco shoves him right into
the torture rack and like Sluga and he immediately gives

(01:35:07):
up right then.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
And there does he because Zabisco didn't even look at him.
He Luger got him in the rock and then he's
just like call for the bell, ring the bell. He's like, man,
are you are you like screwing Scott Hall here?

Speaker 1 (01:35:21):
Like come on? Well, maybe I don't know, but sometimes
a lot of times, you see they just in the
torture rack and the refuge just calls for the billboy
taps out. See the way.

Speaker 2 (01:35:32):
Luger won the title on that night tro a few
months prior to this with Randy Anderson. He's like asking
Hogan and then he rat He puts both hands on
his head like, oh my god, he gave up. And
then he turns to the camera and that goes ring
the bell. That's when I need Larry. Come on, Larry,
you gotta be Randy Anderson. Here they're like, oh my god,
he gave up ring the bell. Can't just say.

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
Called Larazabisco the Living Legend for his referee skills, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:36:00):
But it's maybe because he doesn't even know where he's looking,
like is he even pointing at the ring the ring
bell area, Like he's just like looking up and ring
about because he's waiting for a kick to the back
of the head. So he just looks kind of corny.
But no disrespect to the Living Legend.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
He's not a legendary referee. No one ever accused him
of being legendary referee. Either way, the match is over,
Lex Luger has won, but the fight continues because now
Larry's a Bisco is fighting people from n w O.
But they get the upper hand and bishof karate kicks
this man right in here. Pow Ya kicked the mike
and niggas Bischoff is a karate guy, like, he's done

(01:36:43):
martial arts back in the day, so he's legit. So
don't just went up on Eric Bischoff, you know with
the hands, you might might you know, you might get
trashed out here in the streets by Eric Bischoff. Uh, don't, don't.
Don't sleep on his hands and his feet by the way. Uh.
But once he kicks Learrsibisco that he then puts his

(01:37:04):
foot on his chest at Skyhall counts to three, and
you know that was going to be used in the
pack in the video package at some point in the
future to set up that Starkade match. And that's into that.
There's a lot going on there.

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
There was a lot and this is apparently where six
injured his neck and he was out for a while
before WCW fired him. And I couldn't really pinpoint. It
didn't look like Zubisco like wrenched his neck hard. I
don't know, And his selling was great, I don't like.
And then I looked back and I'm like, was he selling?
Like was he hurt that bad? But it looked to

(01:37:39):
me like he was selling, So I don't know if
it was a prior injury that happened and that exacerbated
it or what. But it just didn't look like that.
Everyone points to that moment of where Six's neck injury happened,
but you know, he wasn't wrestling on this night, so
it's possible that he was already suffering from some kind

(01:38:00):
of injury. So yeah, I just looked back at it.
I'm like, I don't think Larry's Abisco's you know, choked
sleeper like that did the damage. But I could be wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:38:12):
But you've been wrong before, Nick, maybe once or twice.
Maybe once or twice.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
I'm gonna edit that out.

Speaker 1 (01:38:25):
After this match, we get a very apocalyptic promo for
World War three, which we talked about earlier. We're going
to probably deep dive into that in the future, but
this post apocalyptic promo just felt a little too real
compared to today. We talk about today and the things are
going through in these days and times. We're almost in
the verge of World War three now, So there's that.

(01:38:52):
But we get to a now the semi main event
between Matra Man, Randy Savage and Diamond Dallas Page and
what they called a Las Vegas sudden death match. Now
you might ask, what the hell is a Las Vegas
sudden death match. Well, let me explain. You know, it's

(01:39:15):
it's unique, it's very unique. Let me let me tell
you there are the rules. You can't win by pen
or submission. You can only win by rendering your opponent,
you know, incapacitated to the point that he cannot answer
a ten count. Like I said, very very unique, right, Wait, no,

(01:39:35):
that's a familiar get getting word that getting worded from
the desk here that Oh no, that's a last man
standing match. Oh oh sorry, So it's not that unique.
I don't know if w W have had done last
man's standing matches to this point. But honestly, this is
one of the first I do remember, right, So that's

(01:39:57):
that's a fair thing that we got to be fair,
we gotta say that. But sudden death, there's not much
sudden about a ten count though, that's not really sudden.
When I think sudden death, I think like an instant,
like this thing is over, like sudden death overtime, you
hit score a touchdown, game's over. And look, Nick, don't
maketion any overtimes right now. I don't want to talk
about it. I don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:40:20):
But with you.

Speaker 1 (01:40:23):
But like hockey sudden death, score that goal in that instant,
it's over this you had to wait ten seconds. That's
not sudden no, So I don't there's north sudden or
deadly about this match. But here we are. It's the
last man standing match. DDP matra Man Machraman came out,

(01:40:44):
as we mentioned earlier, in his slim gym fit with
yellow lightning and all that, again taking care of the
people that took care of him. I'm repping the set.
It was like I said, you're cutting the check. I'm
repping set. That's how that Maximan's motto, that's my model.
B Macha man. That's what I'm saying to you.

Speaker 2 (01:41:06):
Did you notice the Hall Cogan wrestling buddy in the crowd.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
I did notice that.

Speaker 2 (01:41:13):
I thought that was hilarious. It was literally a w
WF Hall Coke and wrestling buddy dressed marked up or
whatever and all nWo stuff, and it just maybe left.

Speaker 1 (01:41:23):
That's really funny. Yeah, w CW just like we're not
going to sell these Nope.

Speaker 2 (01:41:28):
Nah, I like there were. They were selling them though.
It's funny, like they had a Hall coging one they had.
I even had a DDP one. It was like they
had a pack in them that they would make noise
if you like prunch their nose or elbow or foot
or whatever. And I had a DDP one, but I'm
sure they had to have Hogan back then. But this

(01:41:51):
specific wrestling buddy was not the one WCW was selling.
It was literally the old school w WF one just
colored in like marker with n w O stuff and
you can see the beard. It was like they just scribbled,
you know, circles all around. It just made me laugh.

Speaker 1 (01:42:07):
I mean, you got you gotta do it quickly. Yep,
uh hm. Out comes DDP with his ribs taped up. Yes,
And I always wondered because ddp's ribs were taped up,
but they had a pad, so at least it's like, okay,

(01:42:30):
that makes sense. But like I feel like a WWF
later on they would just tape on people's ribs and say, oh,
he taped his up. It's like, what does any do
for your ribs? Like this is like this this little
tape you put on my ribs or whatever. They ain't
gonna hold him together. At least the pad can soften
a blow or two. But like what the hell does
this tape do? This does nothing? It's always not that interesting.

(01:42:54):
I have no clue.

Speaker 2 (01:42:55):
I've never dealt with that in real life, and I
hope to never deal with that in real life. Uh,
but that's a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:43:03):
I mean, it's just I don't think you will have
to worry about that in real life, at least as
far as like tape on your ribs.

Speaker 2 (01:43:09):
So I just hope I don't get in a fight
and they hit they break my rips.

Speaker 1 (01:43:14):
That's fair, That's that's very fair. M DDP was in
a fight with Randy Savage, obviously, and they fought into
the stands, including into the flock. Yes, how about that.

(01:43:35):
While they were in the stands, though, they fought around
a bunch of fans, including one who just tore off
his shirt right then and there. No one asked you
to do this, No one asked you to take your
shirt off. What you're doing here? Well, what's this all about?
But no, this fan he was hot, apparently, and tore

(01:43:57):
it right off. So I found that odd. Did you
notice this guy? I did not.

Speaker 2 (01:44:03):
I must have a sut.

Speaker 1 (01:44:05):
How like right behind him, maybe I was writing a
note down. He's like, clearly this man has had like
good beverages six seven beers, and he's like yeah, and
he just tears his shirt right off like he's about
to fight somebody. He's like, bro, you need to sit
down somewhere, big fellow, you need to sit down. We
get hurt out here.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
Yeah, man w CW just started that whole movement of
throwing stuff in the crowd and like people coming out
of the woodwork to try and interfere. So maybe you know,
he was just happy that they came to him this time.
He didn't have to run into the ring. Maybe he's
one of those people.

Speaker 1 (01:44:42):
Oh good for him, But it looked weird.

Speaker 2 (01:44:46):
Oh taking off your shirt. Yeah, that's weird, just randomly,
no matter where you are, even in shape, get down
the beach, you take off your shirt.

Speaker 1 (01:44:55):
That's weird. Sorry, okay, all right, So that fan tears
off his shirt and then they fight into the headstones
that this is the best part of the match. This
is the best part of the match. This is where
the good stuff is. Something happened here, right, They fighting
to the headstones, and then I think Bobby Heenen asked,

(01:45:19):
what do you want of your tombstone? Which is a
reference of course to the pizza that you see the
commercials for all the time, the frozen pizza. Remember the
tombstone pizza?

Speaker 2 (01:45:27):
I do? I do remember that.

Speaker 1 (01:45:29):
Actually, I don't remember eating Tombstone pizza, but I do
remember seeing the commercials.

Speaker 2 (01:45:33):
Ads were hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:45:37):
Right, what do you want of your tombstone? I want pepperoni, sausage, mushrooms, anchovies.
I'm like what right. Then, in the midst of all
this chaos, DDP hits Savage over the head with something.
I don't know what it was, but it shattered into
dozens of pieces. But no one was happier to see

(01:46:01):
this than Dusty Rhods. My god, Dusty Roads, big dust.

Speaker 2 (01:46:05):
He had himself a night.

Speaker 1 (01:46:09):
Man when he saw this happen, And Randy Savage wobbled
over and fell out somewhere. Dusty Rhodes, he wobbled Leggdom.
Whoa we Wobbleleggdom? Whoa do you see that? You see that? Total?
You see that brain? He wobblegedoms.

Speaker 2 (01:46:26):
I had to turn on the captions because I couldn't
understand what he was saying.

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
I understood wobble Leggdom.

Speaker 2 (01:46:33):
I thought that's what he said, But I just wanted
to make sure, and you know, my hearing is not
the greatest, so I turned on the caption. The caption
was actually weird a little bit, but you know, it
said he wobbledged him, and I was like, all right,
that's exactly what I heard. And he called it a
waitress tray.

Speaker 1 (01:46:50):
Yeah, I don't know what this was. It just shattered
like it was just gone. It was no more. And
Dusty rhodes Man he was he was. Look, Dusty Rose
is fantastic as announcer. I don't like he's great as
a wrestler, great as a promo guy, great as an announcer.
He just made stuff way better, Like he just made
it better. That spot was cool, but it's way better

(01:47:12):
because Dusty just reacted like that's all you had to do.
He wobble legom. I think that he didn't just say
it was though.

Speaker 2 (01:47:24):
It was like he repeated himself like two or three times,
and that for me.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
It's like because it's like he's That's the thing about Dusty.
His reactions felt so genuine. It didn't feel like it
was part of the show. It felt like a casual
observer watching pro wrestling for like a third time. In
their lives. But yeah, Dusty Rose was obviously a veteran,
a legend in the game, knew exactly what was going on,

(01:47:49):
but he somehow still brought the approach of the normal
person to his reactions. This sounded very genuine, like how
anybody who probably doesn't watch wrestling that often, because you know,
people like us, we're like, oh, that was a that's
a great spot. That's a great technique. With somebody else
is like, WHOA look at that? Like that was Dusty

(01:48:09):
Rhodes and it was great.

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
So yeah, that's a great analogy. That's a great analogy, Thank.

Speaker 1 (01:48:17):
You, sir. I try to come up with him sometimes,
you know, I work on them. At one point, they
get back into the ring and Savage grabs a camera
from a cameraman and try to hit DDP with it.
DDP blocked it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:32):
I said, he tried to.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Wow, that's messed up. Sim wasn't even in WSW at
this point.

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
I know, But you know the year prior he hit
Shawn Michaels with TV camera twice.

Speaker 1 (01:48:45):
Oh yeah, I'll take it to the top. Fact he
came off the top rope.

Speaker 2 (01:48:49):
I'm not that much of a dirt like damn he
broke his leg. Well, I'm surprised he did, honestly, in
the main event, I'm surprised.

Speaker 1 (01:48:57):
But O, we're gonna talk about that because that was nuts. Yeah,
and that was nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:49:02):
He and it just reminded me so much of that
sid thing and not only Survivor series but the Roar
of Rubble too, and it just maybe lest like.

Speaker 1 (01:49:10):
Hit people with cameras. Yeah, but Shavanni mentioned that camera
is about one hundred thousand dollars, and I know, so
some people that may sound like unbelievable, like a hundred
your rand. Those cameras be really expensive, all right, Like,
let me tell you, we got some cameras at the
Eagles that, like, you know, you get those great cinematic
shots that we get, and those cameras are at least

(01:49:34):
in the five figures. Those cameras are thousands of dollars. Like,
I don't even like to touch those cameras if I
don't have to, because it's like, I'm not gonna be
responsible for this potentially ten thousand dollars camera getting broken.
So one of you'all camera guys, get this camera. I
don't want to have to pack this up. I'll get
the tripod. Even the tripod is expensive and super heavy
because it's got to hold up these big, heavy cameras.

(01:49:56):
But yeah, those great shots that we get sometimes, the
cinematic shots and all that, you know, accent thematographers to
do a really good job what they do, but they
using they're using very expensive cameras. I don't know if
it's a hundred grand expensive, but very expensive. Nonetheless, at
one point, miss Elizabeth gets it's propyl as physical. I've

(01:50:16):
ever seen her get as far as a macho man match,
I know. I mean she has got she fought Sherry
before and stuff like that, but like she really got
involved to help Macha man when she grabbed one of
those old plastic trays I'm pretty sure my mom had
back in the late nineties, and she just clocked a
referee with this damn thing. I mean unnecessarily. I mean

(01:50:37):
she clocked if this thing broke, and he was like
reacting to something and he just I think he legit
passed out.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
Like dude, this cell job cracked me up. And he's
just like sit there and then to his knees and
then leave us down. Uh why not just go after DDP?
Then like there's no DQ why after the ref?

Speaker 1 (01:50:55):
Like that's only what I wrote. It's like, does she
have to hit the ref to choke DDP? Like was
no rules? Right? Like why is that put into the match?
Like if you're the booker, why is that a spot
when there's no rules? She doesn't have to knock out
the referee? Yeah, that she could have choked them as
soon as a bell rang.

Speaker 2 (01:51:13):
Yeah, And because Nick Patrick comes in and he doesn't
really he doesn't have a role in it, So it
didn't make sense for that spot to happen because at
least if another ref came in and then they were
involved somehow, that would be like, oh, okay, the other
ref is involved somehow. But that's not what happened. So
I was completely confused and baffled by this whole thing

(01:51:37):
until Timberley came out. But it took them forever to
get to the bag. It was I don't know if
Liz knew like what was coming, because it seemed like
it took forever for this.

Speaker 1 (01:51:47):
For this to end. Well, well, it's funny because before that,
even like I said, Elizabeth is choking DDP with like
one of the cables, a camera cable, but Dusty, being
old school, called it an extension chord. She got him,
He got them with an attention cord. Oh, she's choking
them out with an extension cord. Baby, man, that's what

(01:52:07):
I still call them.

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
I still call them. But it's funny because that's not Yes,
that's not what it was, not at all.

Speaker 1 (01:52:16):
It's plugged into a camera, just a cable. There's no wire,
not in.

Speaker 2 (01:52:24):
And here I am thinking of like power cord is
now people call them or power strips or whatever. I
still call them extension cords. But that just makes me.

Speaker 1 (01:52:32):
But it's not the powership. That's different. Thing. That's like
the search protector, the multi outlet thing that's different. The
extension cord is newly you extends your wires. That's something different. Nick,
what are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:52:43):
Listen, I'm old school too, man, Dusty, we go way back.

Speaker 1 (01:52:49):
Okay, you still get the switch from out in the
yard when when you're just trying to get disciplined, like
get your own switch to.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
Like, yeah, how to mow the lawn or else? Okay, okay,
you scissors, couldn't even use a mower.

Speaker 1 (01:53:02):
Oh you walk up, you walk uphill to school both ways, right, barefoot,
twenty miles in the snow, both ways uphill.

Speaker 2 (01:53:12):
Yeah, even on the weekends, they never did. They never
told me what day it was.

Speaker 1 (01:53:20):
Back in my day, went to school every day of
the week, twice on Sunday. All right, But eventually ddp's
woman Kimberly comes out, defends her man, fights as Elizabeth
while Dusty Rose cat fat Cat, Fat Cat Fat. He's

(01:53:40):
just having a ball at the show, Dusty Roads. He
was on another one man. But eventually, like you said,
Kimberly drags Elizabeth backstage. At this point, I wrote, this
match was actually pretty dope. It was doing a lot
going on here the fans. The most important thing is
that the fans were into it, which we will see
the main event was not the case, but with this match,
the fans.

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
At least one fan was into the man of that.

Speaker 1 (01:54:02):
We'll get into that. I don't know what the hell
was going on there, but with this, the fans were
into it. Everybody was over. You know. It wasn't a
technical masterpiece, didn't have to be. The fans were into
it and they were invested in the outcome. Then a
fake sting shows up and it's like, now I'm lost
and hits DDP with the bat. DDP cannot answer the

(01:54:26):
teen count because he hit him with the bat and
his ribs, which of course were taped up paded up,
they were injured. DDP loses. Savage wins another win for
the New World Order. But after the match, Mandy Savage
knocks the hell out of the referee. He like he
cocks his fist back for like ten minutes straight, like

(01:54:46):
he just looking, looking and looking and still looking, and
then finally bam and his interract for no reason. Damn.
Then he kicks DDP for good measure. Then DDP gets
stracked onto the stretcher. Guess what. Savage comes back again
and tax DDP again.

Speaker 2 (01:55:06):
But it starts like a couple of punches that walks away.
It's not even like the big thing like we see
nowadays with oh, he threw him off the stretcher or
something like, he just attacked him on the stretcher and
then walked away. A couple of punches in he did,
and that was it.

Speaker 1 (01:55:18):
I think we've been trained to see these long beatdowns
from guys. Was like that didn't happen back in the day.
Guys didn't get beat up for like ten minutes straight
by the heels. It was getting a couple of punches
in baby faces, come down and save him, or somebody
stops the baby somebody stops the heel in some way,
shape or form. It's not just getting beat up for
twenty minutes while Michael Cole goes, oh my god, this

(01:55:41):
is horrible. Did you see that? What what a tragedy?
You know, So things were hectic back in the day.
It was friends. It was a sense of urgency like, yeah,
this person might die if somebody doesn't help him, you
know what I'm saying. And DDP looked like he was
on the verge of death. He was all strapped down
this stretcher and Rims is hurting and coughing and stuff

(01:56:03):
is crazy. So it was a lot going on.

Speaker 2 (01:56:06):
Yeah, my u. One of my favorite parts about this
match was when Hogan came out of trust his sting
and as soon as he hits huh.

Speaker 1 (01:56:16):
Was that really? They said it was Hogan?

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I guess I don't know. But
as soon as as soon as you know, he hits sting,
as soon as he hits DDP with the bat, Tony's
Finny goes, oh, you can't fool me. And it's funny
because every single other time they're fooled by Sting the
very next month, they're going to be fooled by a
seven foot Sting who.

Speaker 1 (01:56:39):
The very next match. The first thing that's true he
is he's coming to the ring now.

Speaker 2 (01:56:46):
Oh my uh yeah, that's true. And I even wrote
that down, but you know, since we talked about World
War three earlier, that was on my mind. But you know,
he has Kevin nash Is in his Sting mask, literally
like hair down to his shoulder, like past his shoulders,
not even dark. And then because you know, his hair
is turning into blonde or whatever. And then he steps

(01:57:07):
over the rope and they're still like they're not sure
that it's not Sting. But here, you know, DDP gets
hit in the ribs with a bat. It's like, oh,
you can't fold me.

Speaker 1 (01:57:17):
I saw his boots, Like, how the hell does he
see his boots? He's on the other side of the ring.
He was watching him walk out. Well, how'd you know
I saw his boots? It's clearly Hogan's boots. Was if
you're Hawk Hogan, stupid ass wear a different pair of boots,
which your stupid ass but I guess concealing your face

(01:57:38):
if you're just going to be Hawk Hogan anyway, Like
the match didn't have any rules.

Speaker 2 (01:57:42):
I guess because he wanted DDP to think Sting was
turning on him. There you go. I just it made
it make sense. I did a better job than they did.

Speaker 1 (01:57:55):
Stupid as we're flip flops or something. Next time they'll
come out with the boots that has your face on
them when you're trying to, you know, consider your identity,
especially when you're in the main event. Exactly the very
next match, which we're gonna talk about right now, HAULK

(01:58:17):
Hogan Riddy Piper main event still call time not on
the line.

Speaker 2 (01:58:24):
That's strange, Hey, second match that they've had without the
title on the line.

Speaker 1 (01:58:30):
Interesting, strange wonder Piper Piper is in possession of the
world title.

Speaker 2 (01:58:35):
Yeah, I totally forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (01:58:39):
I don't remember that at all.

Speaker 2 (01:58:40):
I guess he's on a nitro or something.

Speaker 1 (01:58:44):
Here's my Here we go again with the obscenely expensive
Michael Buffer during the rank announcement w t W. We
gotta ask Bischoff at some point. We might at some
point too, you know. We got to ask him though,
why did he always use Michael Buffer all the time.

(01:59:04):
I gotta ask him how much he calls back in
that ten eighty seven because he's dumb expensive. They just
used him in August for a Clash of the Champions
Nore he is again and at Start at a Halloween.
Wasn't he at Star K two?

Speaker 2 (01:59:19):
Yeah, he's Fall Brawl, He's at Road Wild.

Speaker 1 (01:59:23):
Why he's head of expensive.

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
Yeah, he was built into the budget.

Speaker 1 (01:59:31):
He must have been. I'm sure he said every main
event he was there, and I guess, like, I don't know,
he's there to add the big fight field, but like
you can't do it every month. He's a He's a
special occasion to me, at least special occasion guy like
for Starks.

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
Was this not a special occasion?

Speaker 1 (01:59:50):
Now? I guess in their minds it was another one.
You're gonna do another one two months later.

Speaker 2 (01:59:57):
He was probably a World War three probably, I'm pretty
sure actually, because you know, Hogan was like a mystery
entrant in the Battle Royal. He waited till the very end,
and I think he introduced him.

Speaker 1 (02:00:10):
But it's a match you've never seen before and you'll
probably never see again until next year, and it's going
to be the end of the world because this is
World War three.

Speaker 2 (02:00:23):
It's funny that day. They should have just went like
World War three and then went up like World War four,
world War five. But they just kept the World War three.

Speaker 1 (02:00:30):
Always world War three. Yeah, every time, world War four,
world War five. That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (02:00:36):
Actually, yeah, I'm surprised they didn't do it like that
because the first one was at ninety five.

Speaker 1 (02:00:41):
They probably shouldn't have numbered it at all, just saying
world War Yeah, it's true. I mean world War twenty,
world War ninety eight, world War ninety nine. If you're
gonna do that, yes, yeah, it's cool.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
I would dig that.

Speaker 1 (02:00:56):
Yeah. So back to this match. By the way, we
got the strangest cage I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (02:01:06):
Uh you called it strange, huh.

Speaker 1 (02:01:09):
I called it strange because it wasn't It was like
a mixture between the hell and the cells you just
saw earlier in the month without a roof. Yeah, the
blue bar cage. But it wasn't blue. It was like
this weird like metal. So I don't know what this
cage is kind of right, just I don't know what
this cage is made out of.

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
It's yeah, whimsy, Oh man, it looked weird. Then you
think blue cage, the Blue bar cage. The squares were smaller,
like these squares were huge, so it's like, you know,
we actually obviously saw them climate, But I was like,
did they need to be like that big? Like you
could probably swim through there fit a body through those

(02:01:48):
squares Like.

Speaker 1 (02:01:49):
It was like just weird body.

Speaker 2 (02:01:52):
And I thought it was hilarious because once Hogan and
Piper came out, Hogan was trying to escape, like already, It's.

Speaker 1 (02:01:58):
Like, what come on, dude, right away?

Speaker 2 (02:02:00):
And but yeah, my first impression in a cage was
you know, obviously held in a cell rip off. We
had never seen this cage in w CW before. Maybe
it uh you know, played a role like the the
double decker cage or whatever, but I still think that
was just regular chain link fencing.

Speaker 1 (02:02:18):
Yeah, they had the double decker in the triple cage,
and then what was one uncensed that one year, I
forget what one of the.

Speaker 2 (02:02:24):
Chamber of Horrors, I don't think was like a cage
line was.

Speaker 1 (02:02:27):
Slightly different, so but they Yeah, I didn't understand its
cage at all. I've never seen this one before. Yeah,
I get it.

Speaker 2 (02:02:34):
For they had one cool aerial view of it, though
maybe they just looked at the looked at the camera
through that one aerial view was like, yeah, this looks cool,
but that was it. There was one. There was one
aerial view that made the cage look cools when they
both were climbing, or at least Stogan was climbing. But
I call that, Yeah, this this is just weird, you know,
Like I I as soon as I saw it, because

(02:02:57):
I'm going into it thinking that cage is gonna surround
the ring, It's gonna be the chain link Hogan Piper
in a cage. That should be good. Twelve year old
me ha ha, silly mark. And then I saw this
cage and I was just kind of put off by it.
So really nothing that happened. I don't even care that
Piper won. I just from the beginning I was kind
of out on it.

Speaker 1 (02:03:18):
Yeah, it was. It was strange. And then Piper comes out.
He's got these strange lightning effects during his and his engines,
lightning cackling in the background while Michael Buffer is talking
and Roddy Piper's coming to the ring. There's nothing why
why to have the lightning stuff during the engines I
don't know, Yeah, this match just it just again another

(02:03:42):
example of the main events in w c W not
quite living up to the hype. The Undercar though a
lot of fun. Maachaman, sav Uh and DDP was great.
Uh Flair, Hennig had his moments. You had the of course,
the Ray Mysterioty Guerrero match, But this was just like,

(02:04:05):
you know, like beyond these old guys doing this main event,
Like I got all this talent underneath these guys. Yeah,
and then these main event guys are like, yeah, they're
big names. Don't get me wrong, they deserve, you know,
all the accolades. But it's like they're just not they're
not delivering here, Like this isn't when you got other
guys underneath the who the fans are into. Something like
these fans aren't into the Guerreros and the Mysterios, the

(02:04:28):
Jerichos and even the ddps who they eventually you know,
made the champion. But you got these guys man like
and it's like Piper and Hogan and the fans just
wasn't buying a lot of this at all.

Speaker 2 (02:04:40):
I think they might have been put off by the
fact that when Hogan was trying to scale the scale
the cage. Roddy Piper bit them straight on the ass.

Speaker 1 (02:04:52):
And like, what the hell, Roddy, they didn't have catering
back that you hold it hungry eating the booty like
groceries and g r y. Yeah, here it goes. That
was that was odd.

Speaker 2 (02:05:14):
But yeah, that's the biggest thing I took out of it.
It's like, dude, he better right on the ass. I
completely forgot about that.

Speaker 1 (02:05:21):
Right on Savage Piper recipes of Piper, but he was
a savage boar. Yeah, but this match was like pretty
much weird from the jump because they both escaped the
cage right away.

Speaker 2 (02:05:36):
It was a boom out and this is one of
the only I guess they were never escaped the cage
rules in w CW, so now all of a sudden
there is and really Hogan was pushed out by Piper.
So Hogan should have won because Peper was behind.

Speaker 1 (02:05:49):
Him, but the match if he gets out, the match
is over.

Speaker 2 (02:05:54):
I don't know why they added that the referee was
on the outside, so it wasn't even like pin falls
mattered until Coogan called him in the ring, which, by
the way, Piper kicked out of two leg drops like, yeah,
that's crazy. Everything about this match up, even through the end,
was just like mind boggling.

Speaker 1 (02:06:16):
It was bizarre. And again it's like it just felt
odd and out of place with ws W and even
in nineteen ninety seven to keep but that's what they did.
They kept this rivalry going for over a year. Meanwhile
we got I mean, I know they had to do
something between you know then in starcage to get stinged

(02:06:37):
into that spot. But like you had Luger, you had,
there's other people. They could have had a luger for
you going for a while. Yeah, I guess they did,
but like it just wasn't Something just wasn't coagulating with
this man. This wasn't working right. It just wasn't clicking
for me from a from an excitement and an angle standpoint,
from a story standpoint, nor obviously the end ring. I

(02:06:59):
just wasn't feeling it.

Speaker 2 (02:07:00):
Yeah, And if you want to talk about when the
stings started showing up, so one of my favorite parts
of the match was when the first thing was already
out there in the aisleway and a second sting comes
out and stands right next to him, and then you
hear Dusty Dusty Rhoads go Stings Galore and I'm just
sitting there. I'm like, oh wow, like two of them

(02:07:20):
and there is like so many. But Dusty was like
into it and it just made me laugh and it
was like a Dusty thing. I don't know how many
people really like paid attention to it, but I wrote
it in my notes. I'm like, that's hilarious, like stings
Galore when the second one comes out.

Speaker 1 (02:07:37):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure galore means more than two.

Speaker 2 (02:07:42):
I mean, eventually there would be galore, but maybe he
overstepped his his bows a little bit and was given
away some of the future action. But just maybe laugh.
It's like, there's two right there. What do you mean
Sting's glory?

Speaker 1 (02:07:56):
Oh Dusty, Dusty's the best. He's yes, so m hm,
we gut stings. Fake Sting comes out and we have
multiple stings. But I thought the whole purpose of Hogan wrestling,
he wanted he wrestled because he didn't want Sting in

(02:08:18):
the building. Yeah, now there's a bunch of fake ones.
I guess nobody was like that clue is that the
real one? So whatever?

Speaker 2 (02:08:25):
Yeah, maybe that was part of his plan because he
had a Sting Army and Sting couldn't do anything about it.

Speaker 1 (02:08:31):
I'm just what the hell was the point of the
fake Stings But his stipulation.

Speaker 2 (02:08:35):
They never like kind of explained why it would benefit
Hogan from all these fakes things coming out because they
were going after him. It wasn't like they were attacking
Piper or anything. They were like going after him, and
then it was weird.

Speaker 1 (02:08:49):
I was lost.

Speaker 2 (02:08:50):
Yeah, and it made no sense in the grand scheme
of anything. You know, it wasn't like they weren't even like, oh,
Sting is sending all these other things, like even that
would have been would have been terrible, but it would
have made sense in terms of the story. This had
no sense at all.

Speaker 1 (02:09:09):
Yeah, I didn't. I didn't understand this whatsoever. I even
put at this point, this match isn't very good, and
the fans don't care about it either, Like they just
didn't all all this stuff that they're doing. You got
all the people involved, a Cogan, Piper and eventually Randy
Savage who were talking about in a second, all these

(02:09:30):
big names and including Fakestings. They just they just didn't
care about this, not at all. So you can't even
justify this match with but the crowd was into it. No,
it just wasn't just wasn't popping. It just wasn't happening.
But Randy Savage, our boy, Randy Savage, Macham and Randy Savage.

(02:09:51):
Rest in peace to Randy Savage.

Speaker 2 (02:09:53):
Rest in peace to my favorite wrestler, one of my
favorite wrestlers ever.

Speaker 1 (02:10:02):
He should be. Yeah, he's another one of those that
are I'm one of the greatest of all time. Has
to be great. Heel great, actually great, baby face. That's
a good point, Like he was great up there, but
he wasn't great in this night for some reason. With

(02:10:24):
this next thing comes out in this cage. As bizarre
as it is, it's high. That's why I compared this
to the hell to Cell. Yeah, it's a tall ass cage.
This isn't like some BS cage. This is a big boy.
He scales at the top of this cage, which, mind you,
it's not surrounded, its surrounding the rings off the ring apron,

(02:10:45):
so it's even further than normal. But he's like twenty
five feet in the air. He jumps and it's like standing.
I'm like I'm watching this like, oh, oh, he's gonna jump. Oh,
don't do it. Oh, please, don't do it. There's only
two people down there. They can't gonna catch you. Don't
do it. I don't know. And then he jumped and

(02:11:05):
he's supposed to axe handle him. I guess, Piper, he missed.
He hit Hogan, But I'm like, holy hell, that was high,
Like what the hell?

Speaker 2 (02:11:14):
Yeah, and he just barely cleared the turn buckles, thank god,
because this you know, clearly obviously the cages on the outside,
he had a jump with some force and that we
saw the top of that cage. It was moving pretty easily.
So he did the best job he could possibly do.
He shouldn't have not done that spot at all, obviously.

(02:11:35):
And I'm pretty sure I've read that this was the
beginning of his knee problems. We'll see in nineteen ninety
eight he had that knee brace and a lot of
knee problems on that right knee. Uh, And this could
have been the catalyst for that, and just for like
a throwaway type spot in a pay per view that
nobody remembers, because I don't. I don't even remember that

(02:11:56):
until I watched this back, So I just it wasn't necessary.
But hell, if he didn't get back up and continue
doing what he was doing. I can't imagine what he
must have been feeling, because, like you said earlier, those
WCW matts, you know, they were they seemed harder than
the w WF ones. Now maybe that's because the wwrings were.

Speaker 1 (02:12:19):
Hard ones by the way, were really hard, especially in
the mid nineties.

Speaker 2 (02:12:22):
Yeah, and wcws didn't look any softer and their ring
was smaller. So for me, it would lending some believability
that maybe those landings were harder as well. So, I mean,
he as soon as he landed, he just fell right over,
but he got back up. Kudos to him and finished

(02:12:46):
out that pay per view, which was kind of hilarious.

Speaker 1 (02:12:50):
Well, after all of that, at the Savage damn near
broke his leg jumping off the top of the keys Piper,
gets Hogan in a sleeper hole and wins, But right
after he won, he.

Speaker 2 (02:13:04):
Lost Brandy Henderson. As soon as Hilgan's armful drops for
the three, he goes hey, and then he rings the bell,
but whoa, he screams hey and then rings the bell. Classic.

Speaker 1 (02:13:25):
But what wasn't classic is what happened after this match.
I don't know what the hell is going on. So
they start beating up Piper. They got him handcuffed, he's crucified,
getting his ass well, he doesn't know where he is. Meanwhile,
the fake stings come down and they're in the ring somehow,
they're in a cage. You got a fake sting in there.

(02:13:46):
Then you get a fan with a stinging mask who
somehow face paint whatever, somehow gets into the bottom of
the of the arena, climbs the cage, gets in said.

Speaker 2 (02:14:00):
He's been in the crowd all night. I've seen I
saw him earlier, so he was there all night?

Speaker 1 (02:14:07):
What the hell was this?

Speaker 2 (02:14:08):
Is a fan?

Speaker 1 (02:14:10):
Gripped him up and like savage and Hogan was like
trying to beat him up, and yeah, put him in
what that's a real fan.

Speaker 2 (02:14:17):
According to Eric Bischoff on that eighty three Weeks Weeks podcast,
there was a shoot where that fan came up and
climbed up the cage or whatever.

Speaker 1 (02:14:27):
The camera was right there.

Speaker 2 (02:14:29):
They were ready to shoot that right away because they
had the fan jumping over the railing like right away.

Speaker 1 (02:14:34):
So that's why I'm like confused about it. How do
you shoot that if you don't know what's going to happen?

Speaker 2 (02:14:40):
Exactly, but maybe they saw him. Maybe he was selling
something like he's going to jump in there, so maybe
they just started shooting it.

Speaker 1 (02:14:48):
Because at the we weren't the point where the cameras
immediately turned away from a streaker.

Speaker 2 (02:14:53):
I mean we were because it happened in ninety seven
all the way like all year. But uh, this one
felt weird because Bischoff said it was a shoot that
turned into a work because he wanted Hogan and Hogan
and Savage wanted to kind of like make a point
or like have fun with it a little bit. It's like,
what like this fake thing that his mask came off,

(02:15:14):
as way came off. He's holding them like against the cage,
you know, like and then you know Randy Savage is
Randy Savage. Randy Anderson has grabbed his leg. Security is
like grabbing him. But yeah, I have no clue. It
looked really real enough when it started to like a
complete work at the end. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:15:34):
It was just very weird. It was really fake. It
was a mess, just a mess, say the least, what
the hell? And this is I guess this is just
w c W. They would they bungled this finish with
a spite a whole bunch of hype, And two months
later they bungled another one at Stark, and then a
year later they bungled another one at Stark, and it

(02:15:57):
was like, that's literally those three probably these three finishes
what w w down? Like in the rating, it's just
like what the hell? Like, yo, y'all get me, y'all
got me every step of the way, hit every note right,
and in the end you just go putting on a
guitar and it's like, bro, you messed it all up,
but you mess it all up.

Speaker 2 (02:16:19):
I know Piper was gone for a while after this,
but even just the way to write them off for
a little bit, it just was weird. And why make
him win, but because he wouldn't do the job for Hogan,
Like I don't know, I.

Speaker 1 (02:16:33):
Don't know, It's just it was too much. It was
too much. This match sucks. Honestly, this match stunk. I
didn't understand it. It just and the finish just made
it even worse.

Speaker 2 (02:16:47):
Even Dusty Rose when the fans starts climbing off the cage,
he goes, yes, yes, Like what are you saying?

Speaker 1 (02:16:52):
Yes? Du see? Like what's going on? They could have
salvaged this match with a hot finish, and it's just
for something one. Yeah, I just didn't understand it. Maybe
a Sting had showed up that would have you know,
since the crowd crazy and go off the air with
a crazy finish, none of that.

Speaker 2 (02:17:08):
Why not have him come come down into the ring
from the rafters and then have Hogan and Savage leave
the cage. You know, at least I would have given
us something.

Speaker 1 (02:17:16):
Right, They didn't have to get physical, just have him
show up on this show. Jeez, they were screaming his
name when he wasn't even there. We want Sting, we
want Sting like.

Speaker 2 (02:17:26):
And then that's why the fan went up. He was like,
I'm Sting.

Speaker 1 (02:17:30):
But he got stung. Wow he thought it all by yourself. Huh,
I did? I did good for you? Lay up it is.

Speaker 2 (02:17:38):
It is not one of the NBA.

Speaker 1 (02:17:39):
Finals, So that's fair. You dunk that one. I wasn't lit.
That was dune. Thank you. You don't threw that down
with authority with my elbow through the hoop. Ooh, Vince Carter,
it's right, okay, okay, you got hops got bunnies right,
But that's Halloween having nineteen eighty seven, so it out

(02:18:00):
good and then just went right downhill. Yeah pretty much.

Speaker 2 (02:18:04):
I mean, still a pretty good pay per view overall. Overall.

Speaker 1 (02:18:08):
Yes, it's like they made up for a little bit
next year with the main event, well not really the
main event, but the Goldberg DDP match again. Yeah, another
match with the undercard was the better match. But this
night overall was a good show, but it ended in
a very strange way. Any closing thoughts before we wrap
it up here for episode two fifty four, sir pecone.

Speaker 2 (02:18:30):
No, I think you know, pretty good pay per view.
I enjoyed watching it back ninety seven. WCW still a
goat era in my view, and I will love Edny
deep dive on this era. So I'll look forward to
doing more in the future.

Speaker 1 (02:18:45):
All right, we probably will in the future.

Speaker 2 (02:18:48):
To me. You could follow me at Underscore pecone on Twitter.
You could follow us at shooters Radio on Twitter also
known as x and also a Facebook face book, dot
com slash Shooters Radio if you can catch us at
shooterspod dot com. List everywhere we're available. Also check me

(02:19:09):
out Phillyinfluencer dot com. You can check this podcast out
at foxphr Gambler dot com.

Speaker 1 (02:19:16):
There you go. You can check me out at Vaughan M.
Johnson on X. You can check us out on Patreon,
Patreon dot com, slash Shooters, Shooters Radio. Still there, right, yep,
there we go, so check us out there. If you
want to request a future deep dive, feel free to
do it. Go over to Patreon, put in a request,

(02:19:37):
we will fulfill it in. You can make a cameo
on the show again Patreon dot com, slash Shooters Radio.
But until next time for Nick Pocone, I am Vaughan Johnson.
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you again next week. Hey, Craavage,
wake up the show on Oh Yeah, Jiggy