July 17, 2024 • 40 mins
Reposting a classic episode!
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This was recorded to reflect on the journey of the England Football Team during the previous European Championships but it still feels apt today in the wake of another final appearance and Gareth Southgate’s tenure as Head Coach coming to an end.
I have been fortunate to spend time with Gareth Southgate, the England Head Coach on a couple of occasions and I was able to glean some insights from those interactions that I think are relevant to the success that the team are currently enjoying and would be useful for any coach.
Hope you enjoy!
*GB actually won 1 gold medal in Atlanta (not 1 bronze as I said in the recording) among a total medal haul of 15.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podca....
Ready to explore these ideas further? Join The Guild of Ecological Explorers – a community of practitioners committed to deepening their understanding of ecological dynamics and constraints-led approaches. Head to www.thetalentequation.co.uk and click the 'Join a Learning Group' button to become part of this transformative conversation
-------
This was recorded to reflect on the journey of the England Football Team during the previous European Championships but it still feels apt today in the wake of another final appearance and Gareth Southgate’s tenure as Head Coach coming to an end.
I have been fortunate to spend time with Gareth Southgate, the England Head Coach on a couple of occasions and I was able to glean some insights from those interactions that I think are relevant to the success that the team are currently enjoying and would be useful for any coach.
Hope you enjoy!
*GB actually won 1 gold medal in Atlanta (not 1 bronze as I said in the recording) among a total medal haul of 15.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podca....
Ready to explore these ideas further? Join The Guild of Ecological Explorers – a community of practitioners committed to deepening their understanding of ecological dynamics and constraints-led approaches. Head to www.thetalentequation.co.uk and click the 'Join a Learning Group' button to become part of this transformative conversation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to the Talent Equation Podcast.If you are passionate about helping young people
leash their potential and want to findways to do that better, then you've
come to the right place. TheTalent Equation podcast seeks to answer the important
questions facing parents, coaches, andtalent developers as they try to help young
(00:24):
people become the best they can be. This is a series of unscripted,
unpolished conversations between people at the razor'sedge of the talent community who are prepared
to share their knowledge, experiences,and challenges in an effort to help others
get better faster. Listen, reflect, and don't forget to join the discussion
(00:45):
at the Talent Equation dot co dotUK. Enjoy the show. Yeah,
(01:11):
good morning, it's in a while. I hope you're okay out here again
with flow doing another dog walk diaryand I had to do one because wow,
(01:37):
what you know, what what's beenhappening in the world of English football?
And I mean, okay, somaybe I shouldn't have started it sounding
like I'm so surprised, but Iam. Well, I say that I
am, and I'm not mhm orso why am I surprised? Well?
(02:01):
I guess I'm surprised because I'm conditioned. I'm a generation that is, you
know, well be you know,too too used to you know, sporting
failure. I still talk about thefact that I'm not used to us being
so successful in the Olympics, eventhough it's been you know, several Olympic
(02:25):
several games now we've been performing brilliantly. I still remember the days like Atlanta
where I think we got one bronze. I think maybe maybe one or two
more, but not any you know. I remember the days, you know,
(02:46):
where our cricket team was. Iwould go and watch the Test matches
at Old Trafford and as a boyand watch us get destroyed by the West
Indies, you know, bowling attackmade up of Kurtly Ambrose and Patrick Patterson
and Malcolm Marshall and Courtney Walsh.And yeah, we just seemed so inect
(03:13):
and incapable. And and you know, recently watching brilliant documentary on Sky called
Spinwash, which is about the ninetythree tour England taught to India, and
when you look at it, youjust look at how how so many things
were stacked against the tide that wasgoing out there tour, you know,
(03:36):
but just the sort of genuine amateurnessof the way we organize sport and all
those sorts of things, and howfar forward we've come, you know,
And I say we you know,I think this is actually true of all
sporting endeavors by the way, acrossthe globe you seen, it's just increased
(04:00):
level. But again I have tocheck that a little, you know,
by saying that, you know,that's also come with you know, it's
come at a price. I thinkit's in some cases, because the quest
for performance and excellence sometimes can leadto unhappy experiences for some and in some
(04:30):
cases more way more than unhappy experiences, quite you know, dangerous and traumatic
to use the genuine sense of theword traumatic, not to use the word
trauma to mean destabilization or discombobulation orsomething like that, genuinely traumatic experiences for
(04:54):
some people. So but having saidall that, you know, the pursuit
of greatness, if you like,or the pursuit of you know, a
sporting achievement, and you know,striving for something along those lines, you
(05:15):
know, has its own its ownvalue. We obviously just need to make
sure that it's done in a waythat is appropriate. Anyway, I've gone
down my own blind alley there slightlyto something that's particularly relevant to my world
at the moment. But in reality, coming back to where I started this
conversation, you know, for prettymuch most of my adult life, I
(05:43):
was I know some people won't believeit, but I am young enough,
or they're young enough. I'm notold enough to have been born the last
time an English football team made itto a final other major championships, but
you know, we saw get someglimmers, you know, of some potential
(06:10):
over the years, but you neverreally seen that this sort of this sort
of work, and you see wherethe the team has come from and how
it's progressed, and you've seen thissort of steady increase. So this is
not a this cannot be you know, kind of pushed away as a fluke.
(06:33):
You know, we just happened toget good in this situation. You
have seen a sustained program of improvementwith this group. And yes, okay,
I'm going to wax lyricolor back England. So for one of my listeners,
further Afield, I apologize a little, but there are some lessons here
that I promise I will get tothat I think you will find value.
(06:58):
And yeah, so what you've seenhere is a steady approach over a period
of time, culminating potentially in reachingthe final of the major championships and or
being well, you know, wehope that that might translate into being the
victor in the European Championships. Sowhat I wanted to do today was to
(07:24):
talk a little bit about some ofthe insights I have as to why this
might have happened, and to alsomaybe pull out some of the insights as
to how any of this might berelevant or valuable, you know, for
(07:45):
any of us out there looking tosupport a group of individuals and supporting them
on their journey of achieving their levelof excellence or their level of greatness.
However we define and however they defineit. More importantly when I say we
(08:05):
only we being not we the coachesdefine it, but we define it together
with the athletes. So and andI do. I will I would say
this wouldn't have because you know,I talk a lot about the role of
coaches. I'm obviously passionate about coaching, and so I will say that,
(08:31):
you know, I do think anenormous amount of credit needs to go to
you know, the coach and thecoaching team and the coaching staff. And
when I say coaching staff, I'mincluding I think often when people are saying
when I say, when people hearme say the word coach, they're kind
of they're tending to think about thepeople who are sort of you know,
(08:52):
on the grass so to speak,you know, doing the kind of stuff
with the ball. But when Italk about the coaching team and coaching staff,
I'm going to include everybody who's involvedin supporting the development of the group,
you know, and that's going tobe sports science that that's going to
be you know, sort of peopleare working in the more of the managerial
(09:13):
and administrative side, people who aregoing to look at the sort of nutritional
side, the whole package that itrequires now for the group of athletes to
be you know, to optimally performacross a period of time. So include
them all. You know, ledby Gareth Southgate as their head coach.
(09:35):
So when you look at you know, a lot is being said of gareth
leadership style, you know, beingone of humility, you know, and
and how he has fostered and nurturedyou know, the group who sort of
you know kind of following that image, if you like. And you know
(09:58):
how they seem to have not justconnected together even though you know they compete
against each other on a weekly basis, and most of them are you know,
wealthy enough to be to live alife of absolute comfort and on lots
(10:18):
of levels, you know, youkind of ask yourself, why would you
want to put yourself through the physicalpain challenge, et cetera, et cetera,
emotional you know, emotional stuff,sacrifice and everything else to try and
achieve something like this. But it'smanaged to get together a group that are
(10:39):
fully committed to achieving that goal andfully committed to achieving that goal in a
selfless way, you know, tothe point where they recognize and understand that
the effort here is a collective one. And you hear the players talking very
(11:01):
often about those who haven't played,you know, and you heard something similar
with the the GV hockey Olympic teamwho often talked about I think it was
the thirty two, which is thebroader squad, and how they were so
important to you know, kind ofguiding them towards winning Olympic gold. And
(11:24):
I know that Gareth was part ofa UK sports elite coach apprenticeship program where
he would have been part of acohort that would have included Danny Kerry,
or if it didn't, it wasvery much part of you know, Danny
(11:45):
would have been, you know,a part of that that high performance community.
So there would have been significant opportunities. And I do know that God
has spent time with Danny, thehead coach of the women's side. But
actually the important thing is is thatGareth hasn't just spent time with people like
Danny. He spent time with everybody. Why does he do that Because one
(12:11):
of the things about Gareth, andI do know this from first hand experience,
is that he has an intense curiosityand a huge thirst for learning.
So how do I know this?Well, I was very fortunate when one
of my previous roles where I wasworking for in the rugby and I was
(12:35):
working in the in the talent pathwayand on an annual basis, we would
gather together with he would gather togetheror he was a build insight with the
guy that's no idea. On anannual basis we would gather together with our
colleague from cricket and from football andand you know so you'd have everybody working
(13:01):
in the talent system, me workingwith the younger age, right through to
our performance directors, et cetera,et cetera, and we would gather together
for a couple of days once ayear and solve problems together. There are
prospective challenges and solve problems. Andon one of these trips, which I
was very fortunate to attend, Iended up in breakout groups, you know,
(13:28):
with various people, And in oneof those breakout groups, I ended
up with Gareth And I remember,you know, thinking to myself at the
time, I think Gareth was incharge of the under twenty one another insight
(13:48):
by the way, and he Oneof the things I remember, and it's
really left an impression on me,I remembered it ever since, is that
he obviously didn't you know, hedidn't know anything about me. I didn't
really know anything about my kind ofany of any of my experiences or anything
(14:11):
like that, you know, genuinelynobody. But I remember how kind of
intently he listened to anything, youknow, I was offering, and also
the the depth and the probing ofsome of his questions. And I remember
(14:35):
sort of distinctly thinking to myself,like, why why would you want to
hear about anything from from me?You know, I'm I'm kind of wanting
to hear what he's got to say, and he's trying to pull information out
of me about the way we've sortof developed our other system in rugby and
our approach to coach development and arange of different factors, and and I
(15:01):
thought to myself, well, soit stuck with me. And what I've
since come to learn is that that'sactually a hallmark of him as a coach
and a leader, but also himjust generally as an individual who you know,
it's the way he kind of navigatesthrough life. He sees every opportunity
(15:26):
to learn something. He sees everyopportunity, and he doesn't try and kind
of qualify them or dismiss them andsay, oh, that's not going to
be valuable for me. Every interactionto him has real value. Every interaction
he is going to derive something from, He's going to be able to learn
something from. It's going to bringsome value some way to him. And
(15:48):
other people I've spoken to who who'vehad the pleasure of his company have said
the same thing. You know,he asks a lot of questions to the
point where he's almost not the onedoing the talking. He's the one doing
the listening, so to speak,which you know you do sometimes find a
little bit odd. So he certainlyfeels a little bit odd. So yeah,
(16:14):
so I I remember, so Idistinctly remember that. The other thing
that is worth mentioning, and Imentioned it earlier, is the he went
through an apprenticeship as a manager,and a difficult one because like a lot
of ex internationals, he you know, became a coach or a manager relatively
(16:38):
quickly, at a relatively young age, with relatively little experience. And you
know, he managed a side Middlesbroughand did okay. But you know,
you know, he would probably bethe first to admit, you know,
probably didn't achieve what he would haveliked, what he would have hoped.
(17:00):
So he uh and so he butinstead of like going on to the next
job and the next job and thenext job and then just kind of meandering
your way around the leagues and theclubs, he kind of almost like went
back to school and and that's whenyou know, he took his role within
the FA which you know kind ofnot everybody would have necessarily done. But
(17:23):
clearly very passionate about his country andthe progress of his country, and was
working not just as you know,the coach of the under twenty ones,
but also heavily involved in a kindof developmental role like a I don't know
how to describe it, but youknow, he he was like almost like
a pathway manager, pathway director,something along those lines, I suppose.
(17:48):
So, you know, he hadsort of the dual role. So that's
one of the reasons he was sointerested in the sort of developmental stuff.
So yeah, so he and aspart of that, you know, he
sort of essentially went back and youknow, became you know and worked alongside
lots and lots of the other coacheswho were at the lots of other coaches
(18:10):
worked and then you know, wentand did the elite coach apprenticeship program,
were learned from a load of othercoaches in different sports. Spent time with
Stuart Lancaster when I was at EnglandRugby, you know, spent time,
you know, and Stuart's journey andgarris journey a very similar in lots of
ways because both of them came fromwithin the organization, from within the system
(18:33):
as part of that sort of developmentaljourney and then progressed into the national roles
and what you often find is andthe other reason I think there's a real
parallel with Stuart Lancaster is because bothof them are really passionate about, you
know, the the stuff that Ithink often gets a little bit devalued,
which is, you know, thevalue of connection and the value of you
(18:56):
know, kind of I remember,I remember listening to Stuart lane Paster's first
talk to the entire organization, andI remember just coming away feeling is so
enormously inspired because you know, thiswasn't a man who just who wasn't just
bothered about his group and his teamand his success or their success. Cared
about the whole nation, and hecared about the impact that the team has
(19:18):
on the whole nation. He really, really passionately cared that they you know,
kind of it kind of held themselves, you know, accordingly, and
really you know, helped kind ofrecognize their ambassadorial role and recognized the need
(19:44):
for them all to you know,kind of make connections with the nation and
to connect the team you know,as part of as part of the nation,
and connect the supporters with the successof the team, to make it
part of a collective approach and onlots of levels that is just a kind
of smart move, really, isn'tit, Because it then, you know,
means that you're not placing yourself assomehow adversarial, so you know,
(20:08):
player engagement with with the media andbeing much more open and much more accessible
and much more honest, and seeingthat sort of different side that you don't
see normally with professionals who usually justgive bland sanitized answers, you know,
so understanding that every single presentation orevery single time there is an opportunity to
(20:33):
connect with the wider world. Wedo that in a way that is authentic
and real and but also you know, you know, but also respectful and
you know, recognizing that there's youknow, a lot, a lot a
lot of things that you know maybecan't necessarily be said, but still you
know, being truthful and open andthis word humble again. And Gareth definitely,
(20:57):
you know, taken it. I'mnot saying he's from Stewart necessarily,
but you know, there's there's clearlysome parallels here and Stuart's not the only
coach who have done that, youknow. I imagine Stuart sort of got
that from from others as well asas several but so, you know,
so the fact that he's you know, he's spent time with coaches in different
contexts, He's spent time with andyou know, he's not just looked within
(21:22):
the sport. He's looked outside ofthe sport. He's looked for every opportunity
to learn from kind of whoever itis has something that you know, may
may have some value. He hehas thought to connect with a group and
and connect into a kind of thehuman desire to be more than you know,
(21:49):
more than just the results, morethan just the outcomes. You know,
I genuinely believe, and I knowthis will sound really trite, and
it will sound really kind of alittle bit cliche perhaps, and it's the
sort of thing that you know,people saw abouerformanceport. But you know,
there's a sort of romance to theapproach. There's a sort of romance to
(22:12):
the way that they're working. Who'sflows to people. There's a there's a
romance to it because he would besuccessful and highly regarded and a winner almost
(22:33):
almost you know, kind of despiteor even you know, even with results
are not necessarily coming because of theapproach, because of the way he's sought
to create that sort of deeper andwider connection, and but it's also a
powerful motivation force. So when you, as a coach, get a group
(23:00):
together and kind of ask the question, for the deep and difficult question about
what is it we're trying to do, but more importantly, who are we
trying to be? Who do weneed to be? Who do we want
to be? And when you askthat really really deep question, and that
(23:22):
takes you sort of, you know, kind of you have to be pretty
introspective, and you have to beprepared to sort of look into your soul
a little bit and ask yourself somefundamental questions about who you are as a
human being and what you value andwhat you prize. And when you do
that, you know, not everybodyis ready, not everybody wants to not
everybody's comfortable, but you do.You do have to ask yourself some of
(23:45):
those questions. And then once you'veasked yourself some of those questions, you
can you can actually put yourself ina you know, you can actually connect
with us on a deeper level.Because once you find that you have these
bonds and the bonds afford through ashared collective identity and a shared drive towards
you know, finding something in youthat is you know, you're not necessarily
(24:08):
you didn't even know was there foryou to you know, kind of develop,
you know, a part of yourselfthat you may not be comfortable looking
at, you know, to improveyour you know, kind of way of
being in the world. Then allof a sudden, you know, you
start to get a group of individualsto become more than themselves, if you
(24:33):
like, and more than the sumof their parts, you know, so
and and and so performances come.So to me, it's almost like the
ultimate win win proposition because when weyou know, kind of touched deep into
somebody's humanity or the group's humanity,and when we really really ask some of
(24:56):
those difficult and searching questions about whatit's going to take, oh, you
know, and do we genuinely youknow, kind of want to embark on
the journey. Are we prepared forthe ups and downs and everything else?
Are we prepared to sacrifice and toand to you know, take and to
to you know, to kind ofplace ourselves in that kind of area of
(25:17):
difficulty. Once we do all that, you know, what you find then
is is that you know these people. This is a transformative experience with people,
and that transformation you know, kindof happens, happens for them as
individuals for the collective, and itthen leads you know, to kind of
different performances, you know, onthe field and in life. And this
(25:37):
is the power of coaching. Inmy book, this is exactly why I
do what I do, because Ibelieve that the things that we do,
the small contributions that we make topeople's lives, in my case, young
people's lives, you know, helpsto in some way guide you know,
their journey through life. Not thesport, but their journey through life.
(25:59):
I deal with young people with somein some cases quite challenging emotional issues,
and you know, I am helpingthem somehow with any with the small word
here, or a conversation there,or a little framing here that you know
that might help them with the variouschallenges that they're facing. And the connection
(26:22):
that you can create means that you'reable to have some of those conversations more
than you can have conversations with youknow, in general everyday life. So
anyway, I'll just let them bringit back, just bring it back to
this point of so this idea ofyou know, him being a winner or
(26:42):
the team winning as a result ofthe commitment that they've made. Now,
okay, I know that that wouldn'twash in the eyes of the media,
and it wouldn't wash in the eyesof you know, kind of generally in
the eyes of the quite a lotof people in society, because you know,
ultimately say, well, you know, if you don't get the w
well, that's all bunkum. Andthat's certainly been was the case for Stuart
(27:07):
Lancaster, which I was very,very disappointed by at the time because I
felt that his vision was a visionfor the nation and a vision for the
organization, not just a vision forhim or a vision for the team,
and it was one that was goingto resonate beyond even his tenure. But
the moment there was, you know, the performances didn't match up, even
(27:33):
though we've seen significant improvement, butyou know, the performances in the singular
tournament of the World Cup, andyou know, a loss which was based
on fundamentally came down to the boutof the ball almost meant that he had
to lose his job, even thoughevery other successful England coach has always had
a significant failure which we obviously learnedfrom and was able to build from it.
(27:56):
Often when you look through the biographiesof coaches, you see that you
see that they've had some sort ofsetback or failure which has been really valuable
to their growth and learning. Andyou know, in this case, Stuart
Lancaster, which was who was stillan inexperienced head coach, had had that
moment of learning and that was goingto be valuable. But the organization chose
(28:18):
to go in a different direction.And you know, and there has been
some success subsequently, but you know, so you could argue they made the
right of all but my view was, and I think we would have had
an interesting and more sustainable approach hadwe stayed with the individual who really sought
to, you know, kind ofbuild this sort of platform of success that
(28:41):
he did from within the organization,not out with and and this is exactly
what I believe, you know,Gareth has sought to do. He he
has genuinely seen, you know,what it would take to make this happen,
and he's built it within the organizationand made it a part of the
(29:03):
fabric of the organization. It wasa project that started way way earlier than
his you know kind of tenure ifyou like, or his uh, you
know way, it started way earlierthan his time in the hot seat,
in the role he was building thefoundations of this, creating you know,
(29:27):
or creating the connections in the talentpathway and the relationships, and building the
systems, and building the teams youknow, and the and the staff and
the support resources and you know,kind of identifying the players and creating the
(29:48):
connections. It's a project that starteda long time ago, not something that
could easily be just sort of youknow, magic kick of the fingers and
all of a sudden we were highperforming team. This is not a flash
in the pan. This is aproject that started, as I said earlier,
several years ago, led by anindividual passionate about the you know,
(30:11):
the success of the success of thenation, but also passionate about you know,
a legacy, passionate about being partof a group and part of something
bigger than himself than just playing apart in that. So, you know,
we we can't say that this isall down to him, because there's
been lots of decision makers who haveyou know, kind of guided that you
(30:34):
know, appointed him to various differentroles and given him opportunities, given him
an opportunity to be the England manager, which at the time was you know,
not I wouldn't say universally applauded.In fact, there's probably several egg
on eggs on face journalists out therewho would have castigated the decision, seen
it as a you know, kindof a lack of ambition of the organization.
(30:59):
But having said that, we'd hadso many, so many you know,
kind of less than appropriate performances inprevious previous tournaments. But it was
a good opportunity I suppose to kindof rebuild, if you like. So
there's a you know, and it'ssimilar. It's interesting how Stu at Lancaster
got the same same They've got ajob at the same time when the kind
(31:22):
of the team and the organization seemedto be, you know, in a
real state of flux, and youknow, it's almost like you know,
rock bottom, so speaking, notquite sort of sort of that situation.
So to a certain extent, whenyou're rebuilding, you know, kind of
anything's better than once gone before.But that's a great opportunity to then,
(31:42):
you know, look at things differentlyand not just try and replicate you know,
kind of other things that have beendone before, and so look at
this as being a transformative journey.So anyway, that was a bit of
a rambling conversation, but I justwant to just do a quick recap over
some of these things and just tokind of key takeaway. So one,
(32:07):
So first things first, somebody whounderstands leadership and understands leadership in a very
different way. And it's traditionally told, you know, this is not about
command and conquer. This is notabout what I say goes. This is
not about you know, kind ofdiscipline, coercion, you know, kind
(32:31):
of hire them and firearm style approach. This is about I think, I
don't know. I mean I Iwould describe it as servant leadership perhaps,
you know, in service of thegroup, in service of the players,
in service of the other coaches,in service of the nation, and so,
(32:53):
you know, something akin to that. There's lots of different leadership styles,
but as I see it, asI observe it, that's how it
feels to me. So, youknow, understanding leadership in a different way,
understanding and also being prepared to seethis as a long term goal,
being prepared and being humble enough toessentially you know, going to go back
(33:15):
to school if you like, andrebuild your own career and rethink everything you
think. You know, you know, understanding that previous experiences as a player
do not act as a proxy forthese kinds of qualities. But again,
(33:37):
these qualities you know, probably werepart of personality and part of the fabric
and part of DNA, but youknow they are, but just understanding that
they these you know, qualities arenot things that are you know, that
can be developed as well and andstrengthened. So so we have leadership,
(34:04):
we have the willingness and the humilityto rebuild. There's there's also the you
know, responding to setback, usingthat as an opportunity for personal growth.
There's that intense curiosity, the hunger, the passion for learning and personal improvement
as a means by which to createanything, and seeing seeing that learning opportunity
(34:28):
coming from from everywhere, from anyone, and the learning not just coming through
the formal structures, but through theinformal as well, and through the conversations
and the dialogue and the you know, and very much taking taking that developmental
thing very experienced, you know,very very seriously uh, you know the
(34:54):
fact that he's prepared to give histime to go over and above anybody you
know are busy, no time.I'm going to go and I'm going to
talk one of his coaches. Ithinks Chris Pale has heard him talking about
how he gives his gift time toeverybody. He says he doesn't know how
he does it. Well, hesees that as that's the job, that's
why. And he's one hundred percentcommitted to the job and to be as
(35:17):
good as he possibly can be.And part of that is giving time for
people, and he and then thiswhole sense of you know, the question
we ask ourselves, which is whodo we need to be? And how
asking ourselves that question? And youknow kind of almost like peering into and
(35:42):
being introspective and peering into ourselves andour our soul almost and how doing that
with ourselves, but also doing thatwith a group, and how that has
you know, the potential to leadto you know, us finding out things
about ourselves that that can then leadus onto you know kind of amm onto
(36:08):
greatness or onto or you know ontothat's not greatness, but you know,
greatness however we define it. Youmight want to call it self actualization,
you know, you might want tocall it. You know, it's about
you know, us becoming the bestof ourselves, you know, the best
(36:29):
of who we can be. Andand those are the things that I think
are sort of important ingredients that aren'toften talked about, you know, when
we when we you know, whenyou have the sort of regular discussions about
you know, kind of success andthe coaching, you can easily look at
(36:50):
some of the factors. And so, you know, it's fascinating to me
when you hear the media talking aboutoh yes, and humility, like humility
is like a new thing, andor you know, and and it's like,
oh, yes, this is asecret source. Now, Oh it's
all about you go be humble.And if you're humble, then you're gonna
get it. Not as simple,so much more to it, genuinely be
it requires us asking those deeper,deeper questions. So anyway, just some
(37:17):
thought fragments, a few little thingsthat were tumbling around my brain as I
was arriving to get my second vaccinationJAB yesterday. And also, you know,
just reflecting on the game the nightbefore ahead of the weekend's activities,
and I just thought I would sharesome of those insights because you know,
(37:42):
I was very fortunate to meet Garetta couple of times, and I just
thought it was important that, youknow, if people got a sense of,
you know, what's happening under thehoods or to speak, and some
of the things that are maybe lessof you. And hopefully there's a few
things there you might want to takeaway and in bed within your own practice
(38:02):
possible. So anyway, I'm Ihope, hope that there's some nuggets in
there. I might have to listenback myself to want to cap what was
actually saying, but I hope youhave a good week and I hope you're
you're safe wherever you are. Agenuinely wish all the best to the England
(38:28):
team. And we'll be watching intentlyon the weekend and so yeah, it'll
be, uh be a really tenseaffair, I'm pretty sure, but I'm
very much looking forward to seeing whatwhat's possible. And yeah, so in
the meantime, have a great weekand I have a good have some good
(38:51):
coaching. If you're out there andyou're getting you're getting a chance to do
some work, send me over anycomments, ideas, reflections and as always,
if you get a chance to,you know, so you can support
the show. You know a numberof ways of doing that. You know
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(39:14):
You can join the Conclave if youwant and become part of the Learner,
the learning community that comes together tosolve our collective problems and have some
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know, your particular brand of coffee, so to speak, then you know
you can just you know, kindof subscribing is obviously great. Recommending it
(39:37):
to your friends so that the showgrows its audience base is really really valuable
and also a review. You know, if you like it, let me
know. If you want me todo less stuff, let me know less
rambling. Maybe I don't know anyway, I'll speak against you by thanks for
(40:09):
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Welcome to the Talent Equation Podcast.If you are passionate about helping young people
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(00:24):
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(00:45):
at the Talent Equation dot co dotUK. Enjoy the show. Yeah,
(01:11):
good morning, it's in a while. I hope you're okay out here again
with flow doing another dog walk diaryand I had to do one because wow,
(01:37):
what you know, what what's beenhappening in the world of English football?
And I mean, okay, somaybe I shouldn't have started it sounding
like I'm so surprised, but Iam. Well, I say that I
am, and I'm not mhm orso why am I surprised? Well?
(02:01):
I guess I'm surprised because I'm conditioned. I'm a generation that is, you
know, well be you know,too too used to you know, sporting
failure. I still talk about thefact that I'm not used to us being
so successful in the Olympics, eventhough it's been you know, several Olympic
(02:25):
several games now we've been performing brilliantly. I still remember the days like Atlanta
where I think we got one bronze. I think maybe maybe one or two
more, but not any you know. I remember the days, you know,
(02:46):
where our cricket team was. Iwould go and watch the Test matches
at Old Trafford and as a boyand watch us get destroyed by the West
Indies, you know, bowling attackmade up of Kurtly Ambrose and Patrick Patterson
and Malcolm Marshall and Courtney Walsh.And yeah, we just seemed so inect
(03:13):
and incapable. And and you know, recently watching brilliant documentary on Sky called
Spinwash, which is about the ninetythree tour England taught to India, and
when you look at it, youjust look at how how so many things
were stacked against the tide that wasgoing out there tour, you know,
(03:36):
but just the sort of genuine amateurnessof the way we organize sport and all
those sorts of things, and howfar forward we've come, you know,
And I say we you know,I think this is actually true of all
sporting endeavors by the way, acrossthe globe you seen, it's just increased
(04:00):
level. But again I have tocheck that a little, you know,
by saying that, you know,that's also come with you know, it's
come at a price. I thinkit's in some cases, because the quest
for performance and excellence sometimes can leadto unhappy experiences for some and in some
(04:30):
cases more way more than unhappy experiences, quite you know, dangerous and traumatic
to use the genuine sense of theword traumatic, not to use the word
trauma to mean destabilization or discombobulation orsomething like that, genuinely traumatic experiences for
(04:54):
some people. So but having saidall that, you know, the pursuit
of greatness, if you like,or the pursuit of you know, a
sporting achievement, and you know,striving for something along those lines, you
(05:15):
know, has its own its ownvalue. We obviously just need to make
sure that it's done in a waythat is appropriate. Anyway, I've gone
down my own blind alley there slightlyto something that's particularly relevant to my world
at the moment. But in reality, coming back to where I started this
conversation, you know, for prettymuch most of my adult life, I
(05:43):
was I know some people won't believeit, but I am young enough,
or they're young enough. I'm notold enough to have been born the last
time an English football team made itto a final other major championships, but
you know, we saw get someglimmers, you know, of some potential
(06:10):
over the years, but you neverreally seen that this sort of this sort
of work, and you see wherethe the team has come from and how
it's progressed, and you've seen thissort of steady increase. So this is
not a this cannot be you know, kind of pushed away as a fluke.
(06:33):
You know, we just happened toget good in this situation. You
have seen a sustained program of improvementwith this group. And yes, okay,
I'm going to wax lyricolor back England. So for one of my listeners,
further Afield, I apologize a little, but there are some lessons here
that I promise I will get tothat I think you will find value.
(06:58):
And yeah, so what you've seenhere is a steady approach over a period
of time, culminating potentially in reachingthe final of the major championships and or
being well, you know, wehope that that might translate into being the
victor in the European Championships. Sowhat I wanted to do today was to
(07:24):
talk a little bit about some ofthe insights I have as to why this
might have happened, and to alsomaybe pull out some of the insights as
to how any of this might berelevant or valuable, you know, for
(07:45):
any of us out there looking tosupport a group of individuals and supporting them
on their journey of achieving their levelof excellence or their level of greatness.
However we define and however they defineit. More importantly when I say we
(08:05):
only we being not we the coachesdefine it, but we define it together
with the athletes. So and andI do. I will I would say
this wouldn't have because you know,I talk a lot about the role of
coaches. I'm obviously passionate about coaching, and so I will say that,
(08:31):
you know, I do think anenormous amount of credit needs to go to
you know, the coach and thecoaching team and the coaching staff. And
when I say coaching staff, I'mincluding I think often when people are saying
when I say, when people hearme say the word coach, they're kind
of they're tending to think about thepeople who are sort of you know,
(08:52):
on the grass so to speak,you know, doing the kind of stuff
with the ball. But when Italk about the coaching team and coaching staff,
I'm going to include everybody who's involvedin supporting the development of the group,
you know, and that's going tobe sports science that that's going to
be you know, sort of peopleare working in the more of the managerial
(09:13):
and administrative side, people who aregoing to look at the sort of nutritional
side, the whole package that itrequires now for the group of athletes to
be you know, to optimally performacross a period of time. So include
them all. You know, ledby Gareth Southgate as their head coach.
(09:35):
So when you look at you know, a lot is being said of gareth
leadership style, you know, beingone of humility, you know, and
and how he has fostered and nurturedyou know, the group who sort of
you know kind of following that image, if you like. And you know
(09:58):
how they seem to have not justconnected together even though you know they compete
against each other on a weekly basis, and most of them are you know,
wealthy enough to be to live alife of absolute comfort and on lots
(10:18):
of levels, you know, youkind of ask yourself, why would you
want to put yourself through the physicalpain challenge, et cetera, et cetera,
emotional you know, emotional stuff,sacrifice and everything else to try and
achieve something like this. But it'smanaged to get together a group that are
(10:39):
fully committed to achieving that goal andfully committed to achieving that goal in a
selfless way, you know, tothe point where they recognize and understand that
the effort here is a collective one. And you hear the players talking very
(11:01):
often about those who haven't played,you know, and you heard something similar
with the the GV hockey Olympic teamwho often talked about I think it was
the thirty two, which is thebroader squad, and how they were so
important to you know, kind ofguiding them towards winning Olympic gold. And
(11:24):
I know that Gareth was part ofa UK sports elite coach apprenticeship program where
he would have been part of acohort that would have included Danny Kerry,
or if it didn't, it wasvery much part of you know, Danny
(11:45):
would have been, you know,a part of that that high performance community.
So there would have been significant opportunities. And I do know that God
has spent time with Danny, thehead coach of the women's side. But
actually the important thing is is thatGareth hasn't just spent time with people like
Danny. He spent time with everybody. Why does he do that Because one
(12:11):
of the things about Gareth, andI do know this from first hand experience,
is that he has an intense curiosityand a huge thirst for learning.
So how do I know this?Well, I was very fortunate when one
of my previous roles where I wasworking for in the rugby and I was
(12:35):
working in the in the talent pathwayand on an annual basis, we would
gather together with he would gather togetheror he was a build insight with the
guy that's no idea. On anannual basis we would gather together with our
colleague from cricket and from football andand you know so you'd have everybody working
(13:01):
in the talent system, me workingwith the younger age, right through to
our performance directors, et cetera,et cetera, and we would gather together
for a couple of days once ayear and solve problems together. There are
prospective challenges and solve problems. Andon one of these trips, which I
was very fortunate to attend, Iended up in breakout groups, you know,
(13:28):
with various people, And in oneof those breakout groups, I ended
up with Gareth And I remember,you know, thinking to myself at the
time, I think Gareth was incharge of the under twenty one another insight
(13:48):
by the way, and he Oneof the things I remember, and it's
really left an impression on me,I remembered it ever since, is that
he obviously didn't you know, hedidn't know anything about me. I didn't
really know anything about my kind ofany of any of my experiences or anything
(14:11):
like that, you know, genuinelynobody. But I remember how kind of
intently he listened to anything, youknow, I was offering, and also
the the depth and the probing ofsome of his questions. And I remember
(14:35):
sort of distinctly thinking to myself,like, why why would you want to
hear about anything from from me?You know, I'm I'm kind of wanting
to hear what he's got to say, and he's trying to pull information out
of me about the way we've sortof developed our other system in rugby and
our approach to coach development and arange of different factors, and and I
(15:01):
thought to myself, well, soit stuck with me. And what I've
since come to learn is that that'sactually a hallmark of him as a coach
and a leader, but also himjust generally as an individual who you know,
it's the way he kind of navigatesthrough life. He sees every opportunity
(15:26):
to learn something. He sees everyopportunity, and he doesn't try and kind
of qualify them or dismiss them andsay, oh, that's not going to
be valuable for me. Every interactionto him has real value. Every interaction
he is going to derive something from, He's going to be able to learn
something from. It's going to bringsome value some way to him. And
(15:48):
other people I've spoken to who who'vehad the pleasure of his company have said
the same thing. You know,he asks a lot of questions to the
point where he's almost not the onedoing the talking. He's the one doing
the listening, so to speak,which you know you do sometimes find a
little bit odd. So he certainlyfeels a little bit odd. So yeah,
(16:14):
so I I remember, so Idistinctly remember that. The other thing
that is worth mentioning, and Imentioned it earlier, is the he went
through an apprenticeship as a manager,and a difficult one because like a lot
of ex internationals, he you know, became a coach or a manager relatively
(16:38):
quickly, at a relatively young age, with relatively little experience. And you
know, he managed a side Middlesbroughand did okay. But you know,
you know, he would probably bethe first to admit, you know,
probably didn't achieve what he would haveliked, what he would have hoped.
(17:00):
So he uh and so he butinstead of like going on to the next
job and the next job and thenext job and then just kind of meandering
your way around the leagues and theclubs, he kind of almost like went
back to school and and that's whenyou know, he took his role within
the FA which you know kind ofnot everybody would have necessarily done. But
(17:23):
clearly very passionate about his country andthe progress of his country, and was
working not just as you know,the coach of the under twenty ones,
but also heavily involved in a kindof developmental role like a I don't know
how to describe it, but youknow, he he was like almost like
a pathway manager, pathway director,something along those lines, I suppose.
(17:48):
So, you know, he hadsort of the dual role. So that's
one of the reasons he was sointerested in the sort of developmental stuff.
So yeah, so he and aspart of that, you know, he
sort of essentially went back and youknow, became you know and worked alongside
lots and lots of the other coacheswho were at the lots of other coaches
(18:10):
worked and then you know, wentand did the elite coach apprenticeship program,
were learned from a load of othercoaches in different sports. Spent time with
Stuart Lancaster when I was at EnglandRugby, you know, spent time,
you know, and Stuart's journey andgarris journey a very similar in lots of
ways because both of them came fromwithin the organization, from within the system
(18:33):
as part of that sort of developmentaljourney and then progressed into the national roles
and what you often find is andthe other reason I think there's a real
parallel with Stuart Lancaster is because bothof them are really passionate about, you
know, the the stuff that Ithink often gets a little bit devalued,
which is, you know, thevalue of connection and the value of you
(18:56):
know, kind of I remember,I remember listening to Stuart lane Paster's first
talk to the entire organization, andI remember just coming away feeling is so
enormously inspired because you know, thiswasn't a man who just who wasn't just
bothered about his group and his teamand his success or their success. Cared
about the whole nation, and hecared about the impact that the team has
(19:18):
on the whole nation. He really, really passionately cared that they you know,
kind of it kind of held themselves, you know, accordingly, and
really you know, helped kind ofrecognize their ambassadorial role and recognized the need
(19:44):
for them all to you know,kind of make connections with the nation and
to connect the team you know,as part of as part of the nation,
and connect the supporters with the successof the team, to make it
part of a collective approach and onlots of levels that is just a kind
of smart move, really, isn'tit, Because it then, you know,
means that you're not placing yourself assomehow adversarial, so you know,
(20:08):
player engagement with with the media andbeing much more open and much more accessible
and much more honest, and seeingthat sort of different side that you don't
see normally with professionals who usually justgive bland sanitized answers, you know,
so understanding that every single presentation orevery single time there is an opportunity to
(20:33):
connect with the wider world. Wedo that in a way that is authentic
and real and but also you know, you know, but also respectful and
you know, recognizing that there's youknow, a lot, a lot a
lot of things that you know maybecan't necessarily be said, but still you
know, being truthful and open andthis word humble again. And Gareth definitely,
(20:57):
you know, taken it. I'mnot saying he's from Stewart necessarily,
but you know, there's there's clearlysome parallels here and Stuart's not the only
coach who have done that, youknow. I imagine Stuart sort of got
that from from others as well asas several but so, you know,
so the fact that he's you know, he's spent time with coaches in different
contexts, He's spent time with andyou know, he's not just looked within
(21:22):
the sport. He's looked outside ofthe sport. He's looked for every opportunity
to learn from kind of whoever itis has something that you know, may
may have some value. He hehas thought to connect with a group and
and connect into a kind of thehuman desire to be more than you know,
(21:49):
more than just the results, morethan just the outcomes. You know,
I genuinely believe, and I knowthis will sound really trite, and
it will sound really kind of alittle bit cliche perhaps, and it's the
sort of thing that you know,people saw abouerformanceport. But you know,
there's a sort of romance to theapproach. There's a sort of romance to
(22:12):
the way that they're working. Who'sflows to people. There's a there's a
romance to it because he would besuccessful and highly regarded and a winner almost
(22:33):
almost you know, kind of despiteor even you know, even with results
are not necessarily coming because of theapproach, because of the way he's sought
to create that sort of deeper andwider connection, and but it's also a
powerful motivation force. So when you, as a coach, get a group
(23:00):
together and kind of ask the question, for the deep and difficult question about
what is it we're trying to do, but more importantly, who are we
trying to be? Who do weneed to be? Who do we want
to be? And when you askthat really really deep question, and that
(23:22):
takes you sort of, you know, kind of you have to be pretty
introspective, and you have to beprepared to sort of look into your soul
a little bit and ask yourself somefundamental questions about who you are as a
human being and what you value andwhat you prize. And when you do
that, you know, not everybodyis ready, not everybody wants to not
everybody's comfortable, but you do.You do have to ask yourself some of
(23:45):
those questions. And then once you'veasked yourself some of those questions, you
can you can actually put yourself ina you know, you can actually connect
with us on a deeper level.Because once you find that you have these
bonds and the bonds afford through ashared collective identity and a shared drive towards
you know, finding something in youthat is you know, you're not necessarily
(24:08):
you didn't even know was there foryou to you know, kind of develop,
you know, a part of yourselfthat you may not be comfortable looking
at, you know, to improveyour you know, kind of way of
being in the world. Then allof a sudden, you know, you
start to get a group of individualsto become more than themselves, if you
(24:33):
like, and more than the sumof their parts, you know, so
and and and so performances come.So to me, it's almost like the
ultimate win win proposition because when weyou know, kind of touched deep into
somebody's humanity or the group's humanity,and when we really really ask some of
(24:56):
those difficult and searching questions about whatit's going to take, oh, you
know, and do we genuinely youknow, kind of want to embark on
the journey. Are we prepared forthe ups and downs and everything else?
Are we prepared to sacrifice and toand to you know, take and to
to you know, to kind ofplace ourselves in that kind of area of
(25:17):
difficulty. Once we do all that, you know, what you find then
is is that you know these people. This is a transformative experience with people,
and that transformation you know, kindof happens, happens for them as
individuals for the collective, and itthen leads you know, to kind of
different performances, you know, onthe field and in life. And this
(25:37):
is the power of coaching. Inmy book, this is exactly why I
do what I do, because Ibelieve that the things that we do,
the small contributions that we make topeople's lives, in my case, young
people's lives, you know, helpsto in some way guide you know,
their journey through life. Not thesport, but their journey through life.
(25:59):
I deal with young people with somein some cases quite challenging emotional issues,
and you know, I am helpingthem somehow with any with the small word
here, or a conversation there,or a little framing here that you know
that might help them with the variouschallenges that they're facing. And the connection
(26:22):
that you can create means that you'reable to have some of those conversations more
than you can have conversations with youknow, in general everyday life. So
anyway, I'll just let them bringit back, just bring it back to
this point of so this idea ofyou know, him being a winner or
(26:42):
the team winning as a result ofthe commitment that they've made. Now,
okay, I know that that wouldn'twash in the eyes of the media,
and it wouldn't wash in the eyesof you know, kind of generally in
the eyes of the quite a lotof people in society, because you know,
ultimately say, well, you know, if you don't get the w
well, that's all bunkum. Andthat's certainly been was the case for Stuart
(27:07):
Lancaster, which I was very,very disappointed by at the time because I
felt that his vision was a visionfor the nation and a vision for the
organization, not just a vision forhim or a vision for the team,
and it was one that was goingto resonate beyond even his tenure. But
the moment there was, you know, the performances didn't match up, even
(27:33):
though we've seen significant improvement, butyou know, the performances in the singular
tournament of the World Cup, andyou know, a loss which was based
on fundamentally came down to the boutof the ball almost meant that he had
to lose his job, even thoughevery other successful England coach has always had
a significant failure which we obviously learnedfrom and was able to build from it.
(27:56):
Often when you look through the biographiesof coaches, you see that you
see that they've had some sort ofsetback or failure which has been really valuable
to their growth and learning. Andyou know, in this case, Stuart
Lancaster, which was who was stillan inexperienced head coach, had had that
moment of learning and that was goingto be valuable. But the organization chose
(28:18):
to go in a different direction.And you know, and there has been
some success subsequently, but you know, so you could argue they made the
right of all but my view was, and I think we would have had
an interesting and more sustainable approach hadwe stayed with the individual who really sought
to, you know, kind ofbuild this sort of platform of success that
(28:41):
he did from within the organization,not out with and and this is exactly
what I believe, you know,Gareth has sought to do. He he
has genuinely seen, you know,what it would take to make this happen,
and he's built it within the organizationand made it a part of the
(29:03):
fabric of the organization. It wasa project that started way way earlier than
his you know kind of tenure ifyou like, or his uh, you
know way, it started way earlierthan his time in the hot seat,
in the role he was building thefoundations of this, creating you know,
(29:27):
or creating the connections in the talentpathway and the relationships, and building the
systems, and building the teams youknow, and the and the staff and
the support resources and you know,kind of identifying the players and creating the
(29:48):
connections. It's a project that starteda long time ago, not something that
could easily be just sort of youknow, magic kick of the fingers and
all of a sudden we were highperforming team. This is not a flash
in the pan. This is aproject that started, as I said earlier,
several years ago, led by anindividual passionate about the you know,
(30:11):
the success of the success of thenation, but also passionate about you know,
a legacy, passionate about being partof a group and part of something
bigger than himself than just playing apart in that. So, you know,
we we can't say that this isall down to him, because there's
been lots of decision makers who haveyou know, kind of guided that you
(30:34):
know, appointed him to various differentroles and given him opportunities, given him
an opportunity to be the England manager, which at the time was you know,
not I wouldn't say universally applauded.In fact, there's probably several egg
on eggs on face journalists out therewho would have castigated the decision, seen
it as a you know, kindof a lack of ambition of the organization.
(30:59):
But having said that, we'd hadso many, so many you know,
kind of less than appropriate performances inprevious previous tournaments. But it was
a good opportunity I suppose to kindof rebuild, if you like. So
there's a you know, and it'ssimilar. It's interesting how Stu at Lancaster
got the same same They've got ajob at the same time when the kind
(31:22):
of the team and the organization seemedto be, you know, in a
real state of flux, and youknow, it's almost like you know,
rock bottom, so speaking, notquite sort of sort of that situation.
So to a certain extent, whenyou're rebuilding, you know, kind of
anything's better than once gone before.But that's a great opportunity to then,
(31:42):
you know, look at things differentlyand not just try and replicate you know,
kind of other things that have beendone before, and so look at
this as being a transformative journey.So anyway, that was a bit of
a rambling conversation, but I justwant to just do a quick recap over
some of these things and just tokind of key takeaway. So one,
(32:07):
So first things first, somebody whounderstands leadership and understands leadership in a very
different way. And it's traditionally told, you know, this is not about
command and conquer. This is notabout what I say goes. This is
not about you know, kind ofdiscipline, coercion, you know, kind
(32:31):
of hire them and firearm style approach. This is about I think, I
don't know. I mean I Iwould describe it as servant leadership perhaps,
you know, in service of thegroup, in service of the players,
in service of the other coaches,in service of the nation, and so,
(32:53):
you know, something akin to that. There's lots of different leadership styles,
but as I see it, asI observe it, that's how it
feels to me. So, youknow, understanding leadership in a different way,
understanding and also being prepared to seethis as a long term goal,
being prepared and being humble enough toessentially you know, going to go back
(33:15):
to school if you like, andrebuild your own career and rethink everything you
think. You know, you know, understanding that previous experiences as a player
do not act as a proxy forthese kinds of qualities. But again,
(33:37):
these qualities you know, probably werepart of personality and part of the fabric
and part of DNA, but youknow they are, but just understanding that
they these you know, qualities arenot things that are you know, that
can be developed as well and andstrengthened. So so we have leadership,
(34:04):
we have the willingness and the humilityto rebuild. There's there's also the you
know, responding to setback, usingthat as an opportunity for personal growth.
There's that intense curiosity, the hunger, the passion for learning and personal improvement
as a means by which to createanything, and seeing seeing that learning opportunity
(34:28):
coming from from everywhere, from anyone, and the learning not just coming through
the formal structures, but through theinformal as well, and through the conversations
and the dialogue and the you know, and very much taking taking that developmental
thing very experienced, you know,very very seriously uh, you know the
(34:54):
fact that he's prepared to give histime to go over and above anybody you
know are busy, no time.I'm going to go and I'm going to
talk one of his coaches. Ithinks Chris Pale has heard him talking about
how he gives his gift time toeverybody. He says he doesn't know how
he does it. Well, hesees that as that's the job, that's
why. And he's one hundred percentcommitted to the job and to be as
(35:17):
good as he possibly can be.And part of that is giving time for
people, and he and then thiswhole sense of you know, the question
we ask ourselves, which is whodo we need to be? And how
asking ourselves that question? And youknow kind of almost like peering into and
(35:42):
being introspective and peering into ourselves andour our soul almost and how doing that
with ourselves, but also doing thatwith a group, and how that has
you know, the potential to leadto you know, us finding out things
about ourselves that that can then leadus onto you know kind of amm onto
(36:08):
greatness or onto or you know ontothat's not greatness, but you know,
greatness however we define it. Youmight want to call it self actualization,
you know, you might want tocall it. You know, it's about
you know, us becoming the bestof ourselves, you know, the best
(36:29):
of who we can be. Andand those are the things that I think
are sort of important ingredients that aren'toften talked about, you know, when
we when we you know, whenyou have the sort of regular discussions about
you know, kind of success andthe coaching, you can easily look at
(36:50):
some of the factors. And so, you know, it's fascinating to me
when you hear the media talking aboutoh yes, and humility, like humility
is like a new thing, andor you know, and and it's like,
oh, yes, this is asecret source. Now, Oh it's
all about you go be humble.And if you're humble, then you're gonna
get it. Not as simple,so much more to it, genuinely be
it requires us asking those deeper,deeper questions. So anyway, just some
(37:17):
thought fragments, a few little thingsthat were tumbling around my brain as I
was arriving to get my second vaccinationJAB yesterday. And also, you know,
just reflecting on the game the nightbefore ahead of the weekend's activities,
and I just thought I would sharesome of those insights because you know,
(37:42):
I was very fortunate to meet Garetta couple of times, and I just
thought it was important that, youknow, if people got a sense of,
you know, what's happening under thehoods or to speak, and some
of the things that are maybe lessof you. And hopefully there's a few
things there you might want to takeaway and in bed within your own practice
(38:02):
possible. So anyway, I'm Ihope, hope that there's some nuggets in
there. I might have to listenback myself to want to cap what was
actually saying, but I hope youhave a good week and I hope you're
you're safe wherever you are. Agenuinely wish all the best to the England
(38:28):
team. And we'll be watching intentlyon the weekend and so yeah, it'll
be, uh be a really tenseaffair, I'm pretty sure, but I'm
very much looking forward to seeing whatwhat's possible. And yeah, so in
the meantime, have a great weekand I have a good have some good
(38:51):
coaching. If you're out there andyou're getting you're getting a chance to do
some work, send me over anycomments, ideas, reflections and as always,
if you get a chance to,you know, so you can support
the show. You know a numberof ways of doing that. You know
you can go. You can gofully financial with Patreon and make a contribution.
(39:14):
You can join the Conclave if youwant and become part of the Learner,
the learning community that comes together tosolve our collective problems and have some
of those deeper conversations. But actually, you know, if that's not you
know, your particular brand of coffee, so to speak, then you know
you can just you know, kindof subscribing is obviously great. Recommending it
(39:37):
to your friends so that the showgrows its audience base is really really valuable
and also a review. You know, if you like it, let me
know. If you want me todo less stuff, let me know less
rambling. Maybe I don't know anyway, I'll speak against you by thanks for
(40:09):
listening to the Talent Equation podcast.If you like the show, then please
consider supporting it by leaving a reviewon your favorite podcast player, telling your
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