0203: Maren Jenner Interview - Writing the Wrong Brother - The Uncomfortable Talk Show

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey there everyone, Welcome back to The Uncomfortable Talk Show
with Susan Moore, where I'm here to help indie authors
get their voices heard and share their incredible stories with
the world. I'm your host, Susan, and I couldn't be
more excited to have you join me today. This season,
it's all about shining a light on the independent authors

(00:20):
who might not always have a platform they deserve, and
today we've got someone special joining us today. I'm frill
to sit down with contemporary romance author Mare and Jenner.
She's the creative force behind the Sweet Nothing's trilogy in
her newest series, Writing The Wrongs. But we're not just

(00:41):
going to talk about her books, though we will dive
into those swoon worthy stories now, we're also getting to
the nitty gritty of what it's like to really what
it's really like to be an indie author in today's world,
from writer's block to the challenges of marketing, we'll cover
it all. Maren's going to share her insights on using

(01:03):
different platforms to promote your work, while reviews are lifeline
for independent authors, and the difference between beta readers and
art readers, plus why both are so crucial to the
success of a book. We'll also chat about the importance
of having a support system, whether it's family, friends, or
fellow authors, and how they can make or break a

(01:26):
writing career. On the later side, we'll get to know
Maren's favorite movies, her love for theater and musicals, and
also how she got into writing in the first place.
Whether you're an author looking for advice or a fan
of romance novels, this conversation is packed with value and
I can't wait for you to hear it. So grab

(01:49):
your coffee, get comfortable, and let's dive into this enlightening
and fun conversation with Maren Jenner, and indie author who's
making waves in the world of contemporary romance and someone
who's full of wisdom and art. Alrighty, so uh, I
just want to say thank you again for being my guest, Maren,

(02:12):
your number two guest, and I just wanted to give
you a moment to, you know, introduce yourself a little
bit and give everybody a chance to know a little
bit more about you and what you're working on right now,
your past works, and anything else you want to bring up.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Okay, Hi, I'm Maren, and I am a romance author.
I have a completed trilogy that just finished coming out
in May of this year. It's called The Beat Nothing's Trilogy.
And I have a new series that's coming up starting

(02:54):
next month, and it's called The Writing the Wrong Series
and it follows four brothers. Each brother gets her own book.
The first one is called The Wrong Brother. And I
also have a kindle vella out there called The Lake
Effect that's a closed door, second chance romance.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yes, I'm actually reading that. I was still need to
start episode too, but I love it so far on
episode one. Yes, as far.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
As about me, I am married. I have one daughter
who is a teenager now, so she's just starting high
school and getting into all that fun, crazy time of life.
Oh yeah, yeah, good book. But my see does band

(03:49):
and she does theaters, so we're plenty busy running her
around and going to all her different programs.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh yes, I I wasn't in band, but I was
a band manager and so yeah, like the Marchingman and
it was crazy, yeah, going to all the tournament.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, I had no idea how much time it actually
took up until my my niece's and nephews that are
older than her. That are also in band, and my
husband was in band. But I was a sports girl,
so oh for me, and I mean I'm not I
didn't don't like music or anything. I enjoyed going watching this.
It's the whole different world that I had no idea

(04:28):
to exist or what all went.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Into it, you know exactly. Like I was kind of
like you, like I mostly did softball and volleyball, but
my senior year, I tried to do fan manager, you know,
to uh get a little bit more experience and stuff
on my you know, college applications and stuff. I didn't
realize that loving sports would come in handy because I

(04:52):
had to pull out these uh big props and put
them together, and like I had to put them out.
I think my one was I remember it was like
on the forty five yard line and I got to
roll out this shot thing, turn it around, and then
I had to like hide behind it while they were
doing their show. Yes, yes, it does, because you have

(05:18):
to like put that thus run out there. So yeah,
so that was kind of like merging sports and music together. Yeah, yeah,
that's fun. But yeah, that's that's awesome. You know you're
doing that, you know, keeps you active and you know,

(05:40):
you probably get more inspiration with your writing too, like
the more you know, the different experience everywhere. Yep, oh yeah,
And where are you from?

Speaker 2 (05:54):
I live in Michigan, Okay, I'm like kind of the
the central western area of it for about an hour
and a half away from the from Lake Michigan spot.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yes, it is beautiful. I was. I went it there.
I think I was maybe about nine or ten years old,
but I still remember it. Oh yeah, yeah, sorry about
that's okay. A yeah, it's raining down here too, and

(06:30):
it's kicking up dust and I went outside this morning
for some fresh air and the pollens high. Even Tennessee
weather is weird, so I'm not even gonna try to
explain it. But yeah, I remember Lake Michigan and we
went there for a little bit and my family was

(06:55):
on my mom's side, but she h, she took us
all around, and I remember how youtiful it was there.
I mean, I mean I was only nine years old,
but I still remember, you know, how relaxing it was.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
Yeah, it's definitely and each there's a lot of different
shoreline along Lake Michigan. There's some rocky ones, there's some
white beach band I was up in Traverse City earlier
last week, and my friend and I stayed at the
little cottages that were right next to the beach and
we could walk down to have beach access, and I went.
We walked down there and it's the Grand Traver's Bay
Area and there was a crew. There was a cruise

(07:30):
ship actually on in the water, and I took this
picture and I'm like, this could be the Caribbean. We
had the white Head around deck. Kids, You've got a
cruise ship right out here in this blue water and
this gorgeous sky. It's like, this is crazy. And then
people think it's just a lake. It's like, no, this
this is more than a lake.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
A lot. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot to it. You know,
there's something beautiful about the Midwest, you know, like it's
it's got this really kind of calming sort of vibe
to it. So, I mean, I'm sure you've maybe even
found yourself your favorite spot to relax, because I remember

(08:12):
reading that you you know, like to relax on there
and read a good book. Like what places would you
recommend other people?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Though? Like if one of our favorite places is one
of the state parks, it's pja half faster up by
Muskegan and we go up there all the time. It's
very pretty accessible for being the beach, and then they
have a lot of dunes that like my daughter can
climb around on. We usually have to bring a friend
and my husband's really big into building sand castles, so

(08:41):
everybody has something to do.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Oh yeah, I get.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
To watch t get to read, get to write, and yeah,
it's just it's so peaceful up there. It's just wonderful.
The other place that we like to go is up
more towards Whitehall. It's called Duck Lake and they actually
have it's really big deep lake that has a channel
that goes into Lake Michigan. You have to like walk

(09:06):
under a bridge to get from the parking lot there,
but they have some amazing stuff there. That was a
really fun place when my daughter was littler, because she,
you know, there's a channel to plan instead of the
big lake. It's usually a look warmer, a little bit calmer,
and it's still one of our It's a little bit
farther away, but it's still one of our favor pass

(09:26):
to go. We try to go at least one.

Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, and how would you say, like being around there
inspires and influences your writing, like around that area when
you go there.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, I usually I say it's one of the happiest places.
So I find it shows up in a lot of
my work, not just Lake Michigan, but I grew up
a little bit farther south of where I am now
and towards the South Haven area, and I grew up
twenty minutes Lake Michigan. But my great grandma lived down

(10:03):
the driveway from us, and she had lake access to
I think there's one other person on this lake, So
we would go down there all the time. And my
dad's parents lived on a really wide, shallow lake that
the lake in my book Lake Effect is kind of
modeled after because I would go there all the time too.

(10:23):
So I just grew up on the water and it's
really shaped me, influenced me different lake culture things, And
I really just like to put that out there because
it's one of my favorite places. And yeah, it really
adds a lot to the different stories.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Yeah, that really, you know, helps draw the reader in,
you know, whenever they can feel the authenticity of what
you're writing about. And you know, that's really a good
kind of skill set to have, you know, not just
to it really helps, uh, you immerse your reader into

(11:04):
your work. You know, like whenever I'm writing, I like
to use kind of like of an immersive sort of
writing like that, So I would have I would think
that you would do the same.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
You know, they're actually there right right, And uh.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Can I ask what inspired you to start writing more
into the romance genre.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I've always loved romantic movies, romantic books. I started off
with like in I kind of grew up in a
sheltered family where we weren't allowed to read certain things
and I wasn't allowed to read horror. I wasn't obviously
read like graphic romance levels until I was kind of

(11:51):
started with that. So I read a lot of they're
called heart song romance and they were more of a
closed door novella type and I just love those. I mean,
the most ever did was Kiss, but it was just
like a really good story with a good plot, and
that kind of the stage for what I wanted to write.

(12:13):
I just liked the idea of somebody ending up with
happily ever after. I mean, that's just one of my
favorite things. And then there's the whole idea that you know,
love can heal and help so much and overcome fear.
It can help you with past wounds, it can help
you with trauma if you find that person that can
help you and support you, whether it's a romantic partner

(12:35):
or a best friend or whatever. Love can just do
so much for people. And I like to that in
my books.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I absolutely agree with you, Like I'm really excited
to read your books, like you're this smooth series you got.
It's really gotten my attention because I've kind of had
a rocky last few years and I've put romance and

(13:04):
things like that personally on the back burner. And you know,
people have said, especially this morning, the friends said that
grief like the it's like pain where you know, love
just has nowhere else to go, you know, And and

(13:24):
it's kind of like got my curiosity because I used
to be extremely romantic, like whenever I was in a relationship,
but then life happened and I'm just like, you know,
and I really used to love that happily happy ever after,
you know kind of stuff like, uh, about ten years ago,

(13:47):
I was really into Once upon a Time. I don't
know if you watched that television show.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
I always loved fairy tales.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Yes, and I like, I really really love that, uh
you know, Prince Charming and Snow. You know, it's charming
and Snow Like I love I love that. So I
mean like it's in me. It's just needs to be
kind of reawakened, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (14:13):
I mean that you got to get through and I'm
sure there's some scars there that you got to let
be for a little bit. I mean, everyone does stuff
at their own pace.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
So exactly. And but you know, it's like what you're saying,
love can heal all kinds of woods, you know, and
it's you know, it's it's really a kind of a
good thing that you know, authors like you exist, you know,
to kind of remind us of that. You know, hey,
it's okay to all right soon that happy ever after.

(14:46):
It's not always going to be sad and doom and
gloom kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
So well, I like to try and address some of
those heavier topics in some of my books too. This
isn't underlying like subplot. This is a touch, you know.
I mean, a romance fallo doesn't have to just be fluff.
It can be a little bit more husband, It can
be a good story and yeah, I like to read those,
so I like to write those. I like to see
them from the life, like in the Lake Effect, one

(15:12):
of the big topics of Greece with her losing her friend,
so and that's a really big story about how love
helps feel that and and I would say, I mean
she's got some trauma from her ex boyfriend and trying
to live life again has made her a little bit

(15:34):
scared of going out there. That would be Leah, And yeah,
she's got So she's she's in college and she's living
with the four writing brothers, their family friends. Her and
her cousin Meg, who's also her best friend, have a
little mini suite in this house that the writing brother's

(15:55):
parents bought for them in anticipation if I'm going to
college and solically don't got forced proximity because they're right
there with each other. And then the writing brother that
she's the closest to is Sebastian, and he's just a bookish,
kind of arrogant, kind of not he's very socially awkward,

(16:18):
and he's one of her best friends. And they relate
to each other over books and just being still together,
but there's no spark. And then they're Sean and he
just is. He's one of my favorites him. Their dynamic
is great. They're just always at each other's throats, they're bantering,
they're just ticking on each other and it's just really

(16:39):
fun when that flip, which actually flips.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, it's like you're expanding more on their dynamic and
it sounds. I saw that she were doing like those
vision boards ye boards and those are you were kind
of really creating like you're each character having their own

(17:07):
personalities with like even down to like I think I
saw on your Facebook group that you wanted to uh,
you were doing something where even down to their colone
scent or their perpium scent, you know, And I thought
that was really cool that you're even getting them down
that to that detail that that's really cool. You know.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
Yeah, well, I want it to be, like I said, immersive,
and I mean is a really big thing for me.
I love some of those different stuff. It is so
like fun. One of my favorite ones is from Bath
and Bodyworks. There's a candle that the new invent Magany
Cheek would and I'm just like a freak out her
that is so good and I just know it'd be
fun to bring something that cool to readers to deal

(17:52):
with them. I see people that make candles out of
the book Boyfriend's sense, and I'm just like, that would
be so fun. Does some day have something like yeah,
I mean James later on.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yeah, that's I really love how detailed that is, you know,
because it really does make you feel like you you're
like in this character's head.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
And you know so in the movie where it's really
helped me as just like a grounding place too. I
get to see the pictures of people and how I
imagine them in my head. I mean, I think too
a long time to figure out a person that comes
close to what I'm imagining, and I do better. I'm
a very visual person and I like to be able

(18:36):
to see what I'm working with. And I mean I
make out timelines and stuff too when I get into stuff,
because it just gets to be too much and seeing
it is so much easier for me.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, yeah, I totally understand. I like, sometimes it takes
a little bit too long to like when you see it,
then like you can get that inspiration a little bit,
you know, quicker, so I'll see what you're what do
you mean there?

Speaker 2 (19:10):
Yeah, I'm one of those people who can see pictures
in their head. And I learned this year that not
everybody does that, and not everybody has that voice in
their head. And I have books, so I get a
full movie what's going to happen? And if I don't
have that, that makes it really hard for me to write.
And yeah, so I like to have my people in
my head because I can just like, all right, there's

(19:32):
my good word image and that's what they look like,
and Okay, how are they going to act? How are
we what are we gonna do? And go from there.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
And you also did another one called a Sweet Nothing's Trilogy,
So how how was that different from this new series
that you've.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
So those are all, well, billionaire books are really big.
When we started to wishing that, and they already had
the first one that already had a pretty rich boyfriend family,
and then it's the boyfriend's sister for the second one,
and so my publisher, my publisher was like, hey, let's
just help him a little bit and make it a

(20:14):
billionaire theory. So there's that whole aspect that just is
completely different. I mean, it's all, it's totally different characters,
this is all.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
It's all like that.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
That one's based on completely phone family. It's Avery and
Gina are best friends and Avery randomly meets Derek when
she is trying to escape her very overbearing mother, and
she tries to hide and plays night and she basically
sees Derek's growing on his phone, grabs his tie and

(20:44):
pulls him in for a kiss and hides that way.
He's just like the spunky, most outrageous person ever and
she was so much fun to write, but obviously he
couldn't get her out of his head, and eventually they
started fake dating because he had reasons for that too,
and things just I know went from there.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
And did you find any challenges to, you know, focus
on more own that female main characters perspective throughout.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
There, all the all the all, the single point of view,
and that was definitely challenging. There. There's one scene in
the Cupcake Standard that is Avery has her period and
Derek has a reaction to it, and it's not the
period itself, it's just there's other things going on, but

(21:34):
it kind of comes across a little bit harsh and
then he makes up for it. I had in a
Battery process that was like my litmus test for when
to start paring, because I had readers that were like,
oh my gosh, why is she so mad at Derek?
This is so stupid? And then I had readers a
just needs to go flog him and just hang him

(21:55):
up with the nearest tree. Why is she forgiving him
so too? It was kind of balance and when they thought,
I had a couple of readers that were like, they
didn't comment on that section, and I knew. I'm like, okay,
I got it they had here, but that sounds just
like that. I mean, it really hard because obviously I

(22:17):
couldn't share Derek's perspective and it's like he was thinking
about other stuff. It wasn't about that, But I knew
that as the author, but the reader I had to
be conveyed on the page. So that was definitely harder.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
We were there any advantages to it, so like like
did you fund the did you find some things like
I'm not trying to ask here like.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
That.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
They came a little bit easier during that process, and
that so much the flow.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Easier, like the flow of the plot and stuff that
I could just you know, smoothly go right through all.
In her point of you, I was the wrong brother,
and so the writing and the wrong series. I actually
I wrote all those books. I had them and was
starting to submit them to my publisher a year ago,
and I had them all the same as the Cupping standard.

(23:17):
They were, they were all single point of view. And
I had books once through three all written, and book
four was just eluding me. And I finally had one
day where I was like, I heard Steven voice. He's
the last brother there, and he was just demanding to
talk in his story, and I'm like, I can't have

(23:39):
the fourth story be a dual point of view and
not the rest of them. And I had a few
things I wanted to iron out in this series that
were just kind of bugging me. So I told my
publishers I wanted to take a step back, and I
wanted to try rewriting it in the dual point of view,
and they were really looking for the enemies to Lover's trope.

(24:00):
So I decided to explore that trope within each of
these books and have them all kind of start off
on that extra edge, that extra anger, but all for
different reasons. That's some really kind of fun to do,
and trying to figure out how to use that trope
in so many different ways. But since I've rewritten them,

(24:22):
I just I really like them. I think there's so
much better. I do address some things differently.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I learned, like the.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
First time around with the Cupcake Standard, there is some
miscommunication in there, and that is a trope that can
really set people off that really don't like it. I mean,
it's a normal thing in everyday life, but trying to
read it can get quite frustrating.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Yeah, which I guess.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
So I had some of that in the wrong brother,
and I'm like, all right, how can I redo this?
The lesson that my third book was the biggest one
that was all miscommunication, and that's so what I'm going
to be starting on writing pretty soon. And I got
to figure that one out too. It's like, I don't
mind having me a little bit, but I don't want
that to be the valid basis that the story is on.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
How did you find that good that good kind of
sweet spot balance to where you're doing it, but it's not,
you know, overdone, and it helps the story, Like how
did you.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
With the romance aspect of it?

Speaker 1 (25:28):
Uh huh, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
I do write the open Door for the majority of it,
and I again it comes back to love for me
is all characters aren't doing it just I mean that
anything wrong with going and doing it for pleasure. But
my acts, the intimacy is usually a healing process, a bridge.

(25:52):
The characters coming together is the fruition of a lot
of work that I put into it. I usually do
the slow burning things, so they kind of amps up
towards the end. So that's what I I like that.
I prefer to read that, but I.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Got to take but he kind of takes your time
with it, you don't rush it.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
Really, Yeah, that's what I that's what I like.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
I prefer.

Speaker 2 (26:19):
I mean, I've read they're called, you know, inst the
love books where they just go right into it, and
I mean, if they're they're well done, I can get
into it and it's it's great, they're fine, they're enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
But that's not my preference, right, And it doesn't sound
like it's your style either, So you know, I think,
you know, every author and writer has their own style,
and you can, like, you know, if you read a
Stephen King book, you know it's Stephen King, all right,
it's got his sort of flavor to it, So it

(26:55):
sounds like you're the same way like this is the
way you are, so yeah, you know that's this is
your voice, so yeah, exactly. So if you could spend
a day with any one of the right brothers, who
would it be and why.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
It would have to either be Sean or Silas because
they are more of my fun, good sense of humor, playful,
good positive energy people. And I'm a person who really
likes to be around people who have that good, upbeat
energy and I kind of soake that in. And I

(27:33):
like the other brothers, of course, I mean, and they
definitely has their great aspects. I mean, Sebastian would be
fun discussing books with and he's got he's like a
whole fountain of knowledge. And Stephen, I'm kind of still
getting to know. He's just been so quiet that I'm
a little frustrated with him right now.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
So I really don't want to hang out with him
and say more of the introverted type you would think, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
He's just kind of the quiet just I mean, he's
the he's the oldest, but you think you'd be a
little bit more outgoing, but he's just kind of reticent,
wants to just hang back. He helps and he has
his own you know, fit into that family. But he's
just kind of there right now, so I kind of
know what he's going to be doing. But I just

(28:14):
I haven't got to know him enough to be like,
oh yeah, Stephen, he's the best.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
The older brother, Like, I just wonder see he might
be quiet because like I'm the older sibling and I
can kind of be quiet too sometimes when I'm watching
my younger brother. I have one brother, and you're just
you're kind of like you got this protective streak about them,

(28:39):
so you're just kind of watching a little bit and
you're like, Okay, you're not going to get in trouble
with what you're about to do, are you. You know, and.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
You know that caretaker protective thing. And I can definitely
see that Stephen. He's definitely got that caretaker vibe. There's
especially with his story, his backstory and whatnot, it'll be
fun to explore that.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah, I think it's like a I'm not going to
say every single time, but generally speaking, I think the
older sibling does that. You know, they're they're like the observer,
like on the fringes of everything. They're like hmmm hmm, Yeah,
that's not going to work out and you try to
reward the younger. And I'm also wondering, like, if you

(29:26):
could have lunch. It doesn't have to be your series,
but it can be your series. If you have lunch
with any fictional couple from a romance novel, who would
you want to have lunch with them? How come?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
So yeah, I read that question and I just completely
blanked and I'm still blinking. I I have a literal
library Astairs. That takes a thousand books to have a library,
and I have a little literal library upstairs. And I
read very fast. I mean, if I read a book,
it's usually in a day or two. And I love
I love reading. That's part of my writing and everything.

(30:02):
I love reading, I love movies, I love writing, and
that's my hobby. Someunless people ask me what I do,
I'm like, well, that's that's kind of what I do.
So I've met so many amazing characters that it's kind
of hard to just pick. I'm really bad at picking
favorites anyways, So that's part of the people that under me.
But I was thinking about it and I'm like, well,

(30:24):
I would really like Sarah J. Moss. Has you know
her a cord of Thorns and Roses theories, and Cassian
is one of my favorites in that theory, but I
don't really like Nessa, who is the person that he's with.
But I really don't necessarily want to have lunch with
the two of them. And then she has another series
that is called Crescent City, and again I really like
the male lead. His name's Hans, and I just Bryce

(30:48):
just doesn't seem like someone I would like. I mean,
she's awesome to read about, but I actually hang out with.
I'm not sure I could go back and be like
I mean, Jane, I then it'd be fun to do,
like maybe have one twist. I mean, Lizzy's really fun
so and mister Darcy had become the meam, so maybe them.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
Would you cook for them? Or would you take them
out to a restaurant?

Speaker 2 (31:15):
One will take them out to a restaurant and they
can see how much the food has changed and whatnot.
And mister.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
There you go, there you go. And of these two
different series and this other hey, what did you call it?

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Like?

Speaker 1 (31:32):
It's a villa on the on the Kindle, it's Kindle vella.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
It's an episode program that's through Kindle. And they had
a contest that was running through July to August for
any new new stories that were published out there, which
is one of the reasons that I decided to try,
Like I've been wanting to try to try that platform
for a while and kind of see how it goes.
And I don't think I'm gonna win anything, because they

(31:57):
really wanted a lot of it was based and like
fan engagement, and while I was happy with my results,
I was nowhere near some of those top engagement stories.
They just had like hundreds of thousands of people, and
it was like I was blown away actually read that.
I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. But it's
been in a different platform and a different way of

(32:18):
getting my stories out there, and it was kind of fun. Yeah,
and you know, the first episodes are actually get to
kind of try it, actually buy it, which I like
that too.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yeah, it's always fun to you know, try different platforms
and trying to get your works and your you know,
who you are out there as an author. So that
was the first time I ever heard of it. Whenever
Travis Travis like told me about you and then I
was like looking at your stuff and I saw that,
and that's how I kind of stumbled upon it. So

(32:52):
you know, when you're an independent author, you know kind
of really rely on word of mouth.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Really, oh yeah, I found that out. That's a lot.
And I mean I do have a publisher. I have
a small press publisher, but you know, small press basically
you're doing your own marketing. So I still fall in
the category of the independent authors because I'm not. I mean,
I do, they do my editing, and they do my
book cover, but I do the rest and definitely a
lot of work trying to get all that out there.

(33:19):
And I mean I'm very lucky because I'm not starting
with a deficit as much as a lot of like
the self published people are, because they're doing all that
editing and that cover costs and everything. You know, right
up front, I do get that, but then it also
means my royalties are a lot less, so it's kind

(33:40):
of a trade off. But this is a fun way
to build, you know, my backlog, my stories for people
to go when I continue on. It's just it's a
good way to do it, and it's been a really
interesting learning experience one way or the other. I am
thinking about self publishing my next book. Yeah, I'm not sure.
About three Amazon or if I want to keep doing
Bella or what I want to do. Yeah, but I'm

(34:00):
kind of see how writing the wrong series comes out
and then move on to the next step, I think.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yeah, and in the future, are there any other romance
folks that you'd love to, uh maybe experiment with and
draw in the future.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
So I've been writing like more as part of my
career since twenty eighteen, and since then I've written about
I think twenty two is what I'm up to right now.
Twenty two novels finished, twenty two novels that I have
in my tablet, my computer, and I support a lot

(34:39):
of the tropes.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
Yeah, and I'm not one.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
I don't stick with one genre. I have a dystopian one,
and I have a couple of different fantasy ones. I
have some young adult sports romances. And some of my
favorite tropes there are the like Brother's Best Friend, and
I have one that I've been rewriting that I would

(35:04):
like to do. But I'd like to do that a
little bit more, just more of a Yeah, the Brother's
best Friend thing is definitely one of my favorites.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
That's really cool. You've got twenty two novels that you've
written already.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, it's a lot, and it's kind of it's overwhelming
when I want to, like, okay, so what do I
want to work on next? And a lot of them
are just very I mean, I wrote them before I
even started you know, editing and whatnot. I have them
on paper, so they're going to take them work to
actually get to the point of actually self publishing. And
a lot of them are like a beginning of a

(35:37):
series or a trilogy or a duology union and it's like, well, okay,
I really would like to have some idea of where
the second one goes before I finalize the first one.
Because I'm what they call it panser. I don't plot.
I just kind of let my characters show me what's
going on. And my first draft is usually basically what
I consider my outline, because then I know what's happened.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
Oh, so, do you like I didn't write this question down,
so I'm sorry, but it's just coming through me. Do
you kind of do a brain dump when you get
an idea for a new story first?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Yea?

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Or well, like what's your process?

Speaker 2 (36:18):
And that? So my favorite part of writing the story
is the first part, because all the characters are brand new,
the situations are brand new. It's super exciting for me
to just like dive right in that out and I'm
usually good for about the first thirty thousand words. My
first draft is usually about sixty to seventy thousand, So
after the first thirty thousand, that's my make it or

(36:40):
break it point. It's halfway there, and that's where usually
some of the drama and the conflict comes into play more.
And I don't love hurting my characters. I like the
happy parts.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Better, so sometimes I'll just you know, put that aside.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
For a while and then come back to it. So
I don't even know how many have started things I have,
but yeah, the twenty two is the ones that I've
actually finished, and yeah, I will sit down. I usually
have some sort of an idea for a start, and
I may have a loose idea of the beginning, but
the middle is always just a mystery to me, and

(37:17):
my character has constantly surprised me. I've tried the outlining process,
and every single time, my characters are like, no, this
is better, and they usually find that they're right. So
I just kind of gave up on that, and I
usually know what's gonna happen, like the next scene or
the next couple scenes, so I can kind of write
towards that, and then it just kind of unfolds. I've
heard it called the flashlight method, where like you can

(37:38):
kind of see as far as the flashlight beam goes
in front of you, and that's what I see is
just the next couple of steps. But I don't quite
get to see the whole picture until it's all the
way done. So then I usually have to go back
and read adjustice these things to make some details. As
I get to know the characters, I find some little
quirk that would be fun to spread through.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
The whole story, and yeah, yeah, like uh do you do?
Like I'm doing like a historical fiction right now? Is
myle focus? Like, so what I'm working on right now
is trying to get each of the character's profile, Like
I really want to know them before I really start

(38:19):
writing like the meat and potatoes of this whole story,
and like you know, I want to pull up like
a document or like even in just like a regular
notebook and the sort of write out everything about them,
like what color hair they have, what do they like
to do? When they first get up. Do they even
get up in the morning or do they sleep in

(38:40):
you know, stuff like that, Like is that sort of
like on your like what you do?

Speaker 2 (38:47):
So I do have something like that for like the
writing Brothers, because I, you know, throughout doing trying to
do four books, I want to keep consistency. But at
the start of something I don't usually do it. I'll
usually do it like after I've written the first draft
and be like, Okay, here's the consistent details that I
want to have for these people. But I kind of
get to know them as a story un fuls, just

(39:08):
like a.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Reader would like, what do you do whenever you get
like writers, if I'm sure I do?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, I think everybody does that. And a lot of
times it's me putting my own pressure on myself, just
like I have to get this done, you know, self
imposed deadlines that don't actually mean anything, but yeah I will.
I mean if it's just a small thing that I
can't get the next scene or I can't get this
character or to figure out just the way I want

(39:36):
it to, I usually will do something physical. I'll go
for a walk, I'll go for I'll go clean the
house like extra well, or I'll tackle one of my
house projects that I have to go on. We've been
say I won't be able to do that very much
longer because we've been working in the last five years
on renovating or upstairs for our daughter. We filter it

(39:58):
was very drafting and cold, and we had no heat
out there, and we put into a room, put into
a bedroom without like a lofted bedroom, and readd the
landing and redid the stairs. But it's all buttoned up now.
So it's like before I would, you know, tackle the
next step of that, but now I don't have that
to do, have to figure out what I have to
probably declutter all the stuff that's piled up while we're
focusing on that.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
It's good to like just kind of step away and
just do your projects that you got because yeah, I'm.

Speaker 2 (40:25):
Trying to balance all that is always complicated anyways, But
just then way of looking at stuff you know you're
not creating, you are doing something more physical, just uses
a different aspect of your brain and gives that creative
part a little.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Bit of a break, right right exactly. So I did
read that you were you know, you've always streamed of
being a full time author, So like what advice would
you give aspiring writers? And you know, also I read
that you know you get a lot of support from

(40:58):
your family too, So I want to talk a little
bit more about that.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
Okay, Yeah, so my advice for aspiring writers. I went
into this after I wrote my first novel in twenty eighteen.
I had people, a couple of people read it, and
then I just took that draft and I went to
a pitch event. They had a writer's conference and you
could you could reserve pitches in Chicago, and I went

(41:25):
with one of my front and that was honestly the
most nervorecting thing in my entire life. I'm not a
great public speaker, and that was I was there by
my I mean, my friend was there, but she was
kind of buddied up with another author, so I was
kind of on my own and obviously got a pitch
on your own too, and it was terrifying. Oh what,
it was really good. I mean I learned a lot

(41:46):
of the that I learned about. My story started off
with the characters waking up and well that's a huge
no no. I mean that's just like everybody does that,
and so it's been over you if people don't want
that anymore. The one agent was very kind, I mean
all of them more. I I think I pitched three times,
but they're very kind and gave me some really good feedback.

(42:07):
They're like the promise of my story a lot, but
trying to read it is I used was too much.
I just a lot of you know, newbe technical stuff
that was like, Oh, if i'd have done more research,
maybe I could have avoided this. So I came back
from that conference and I think I said the story
side and wrote another one, and while I tried to

(42:27):
figure out what was next. And I think the best
process you have you have alpha readers, which are the
people close to you that read it for like the
big overarching Oh there's a huge pothole. You forgot your
secondary character even existed after the third paragraph, you know,
and then after that. Though, beta reading is definitely one

(42:50):
of my It's a tool that I really think that
everybody should use. I will will exchange beta reads with
somebody else. So a beta read is more they're looking
at everything their character development and your word choices, your

(43:12):
sentence structure, I mean whatever. The feedback that they can
have can really help everybody else much as you can
find them. I mean, there's everyone. Everyone's at a different stage,
of course, so you have different perspectives, but that different
perspective of your story. Once you write a story, you've
become very very close to it, and I can read

(43:35):
it and I don't see missing words. I don't see
missing things because my brain fills it in because I
know how it's supposed to be. So giving that story
to somebody else, it's new to them. They can read
it and they see it and they can be like, hey,
you didn't actually say why they did this thing or
why they chose this, and oh, well you need some

(43:56):
more bangster it, okay. And in exchange the data reads,
I've been able to read so many other authors amazing stories,
and that in itself is valuable because I can kind
of see, well, this this works, or this is repetitive,
or this doesn't quite foreshadow enough for this, and that
has really stretched me and given me a lot of

(44:17):
building blocks. So I think data reading is one of
the most important things giving and receiving. It's just an
amazing extra depth in the whole publishing process.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Right, And is is that how come you're looking for? Well,
I saw on your Twitter the ARC readers, so our readers.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
There, it's advanced reader copy and it is a way
to get reviews and kind of hype up your book
on release day. So that was something I learned too
as I released books, is that you're supposed to look
for art readers. I'm like, well, what's an ARC reader?
But generally, especially indie authors will do an ebook and

(45:02):
they'll send it out to anyone who's signed up and
in exchange like a good face thing that the person
will read their book and will leave a review on
good Reads. It's really important to leave them on Amazon,
because Amazon doesn't even promote like books. I'm kindle limited

(45:22):
in some of those places. They'll show up on like
Suggested Reading only once they reach their reviews, like I
think it's fifty reviews, so if you're under fifty, it's
not even showing up on people's eight pages. So a
huge help for authors if you ever wanted to do
something that was you know, even not even arc read
but just I didn't know this until I became an author.

(45:44):
I've always been a big reader, but I never thought
about leading your review. I didn't think it mattered that much,
but it really does matter, especially just a little authors.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Oho. So this is different from the beta readers because
I've never heard of ARC readers before. Our readers are
you know.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
It's more of a They sign up and I'm going
to be sending out my arcs for the Wrong Brother
next week, the twenty fourth, and so I'll that's they
get advanced copy. It's two weeks before release date, so
they have a couple of weeks to read it. So
hopefully they can review it in the in the first
week or two of my release to kind of, like

(46:23):
I said, generate some hype, and a lot of them
are amazing with the extra step and will post about
their review and get the word out about it. For people,
it's it's a fun way to help each other out.
They get a free book and we get, like I said,
the reviews that we need, and sometimes we get a
little bit of extra love for that, and they're amazing.

(46:43):
I've had a team actually that has fined up for
any book that I write. They're like, we want to
read everything that you write. And it just blows me
away that people are dad invested and that's pretty must. Yes, yeah,
just always good. Oh my goodness, someone wants to read
my book.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah, like whenever, because I mostly been writing poems and stuff.
Every time somebody is like you're reading it and commenting
on it, it makes you feel so good, like it
gives you that little pep in your step kind of
they don't.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
You want to write more? It's like, oh like this,
I mean, yeah, good energy, yanche, I'm gonna go put
that into my work and make some more here.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
Yeah. Yeah, it kind of feels like you're walking on
a cloud a little bit.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
You're like, ooh, you know, yeah, such a dope, mean question.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yes, give me all the hearts, give me all the reviews, Yes.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
All those often comments, all that stuff. Yes, it's great.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Yeah, it really is kind of fuel to your soul, like,
you know, wanting to write more and to have like
a little group of people there or a big group
of people or however the sizes of your people, you know,
to have that support group is amazing. You know you
have your team, because I do remember seeing like because
I was looking through your uh one of the Twitter

(48:01):
posts that you made, I think or it could have
been your Facebook group. I can't remember which one, but
somebody said that they were like, yeah, I think I
remember your our team and I was like, I wonder
what that is because I've never heard of it, you know,
but you know, you're little, you know, your group of
people is already like excited about reading, and I'm like, oh,

(48:23):
this is really kind of cool. What is it?

Speaker 2 (48:29):
Yeah? Support the support of those people that I mean,
like I said, the ones that have joined with me
for this, like okay, anything that you write I want
to read. That's just overwhelming. And then of course, my family,
like we're talking about my family is one of my
biggest supporters. My daughter is always begging to read my
books and I'm like, you can't read my books. They're
they're not set for people in your age, and she's

(48:53):
gets upset about that. She's like, you need to write
something that I can read. And I'm like, well, okay, maybe,
I mean I have, like I said, a couple of
young adult romances that I'm just I haven't put the
effort into actually getting out there yet, so maybe that'll
be something and then someday maybe she'll actually read my books.
But my parents have also been a big support. They've

(49:13):
always supported my writing. And I went to college for
two years with the creative writing major in mind, and
then I got married and place happened. So they've always
been just you know, go follow you do whatever. And
it was my mom really wanted to read my books,
and of course they're open door romance, and I'm like,

(49:36):
I who you're My mom was just a little bit
out there and I know it's outside of their comfort zone.
So do you guys finally work me down? And I
told her, I said, okay, just you can't judge me.
You can't be said at me. You can't. I mean,
I'm like forty years old and I'm like, mom, don't
judge me.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
Yeah, but you know how that goes.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I mean, it's just idea. I want my to be
out of me and my dad like we've refused to
let my dad read the books, but he did read
The Lake Effect and because at his closed doors, so
he got to read very excited about about that, and
they're just great.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
So yeah, it's good to have, you know, your family
support me like that because you know, a lot of
people don't, like a lot of authors don't have that.
And you know, even if they don't read your stories
or they can't read your stories yet, I think you know,
does your daughter like look at you and she sees
how happy this is making you. So that just makes

(50:38):
sure I want to support you even more, you know,
like yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
And she's got a really great artistic eye, so i'll help.
I'll have her look at some of my different ads
and things and be like, okay, there's something wrong with this,
what is wrong with it? And she'd be like, oh,
the color is offer. This spot needs to be like this.
And she's really good at I mean, she's got cap
cut down with the video editing, and she's helped me
with different things too and help me, like or she
finds a trending song and you need to put that

(51:04):
in your your next kicktack or whatever, and i mean
she's she contributes, she's she's my little helper, and I
mean I probably appreciate her. Yeah, it's great. And he's
been trying to write and I'm just like, it's so
cool that she sees it. And then she wants to
go and do her own stories. Of course, she likes
like the murder mysteries and horror aspect of things, and

(51:26):
you know, always reading that kind of thing and going
you should read this, and I'm like that's not my genre.
I'm sorry, very different people.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
Yeah, I can fill her though, because like back in
my youth, I was into the orl Ston fear Street
books and I was burning through like three four those
a week, like like you could not get my nose
out of a book. Like if I wasn't doing homework,
I was reading an Orl's song.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
I have funds that were like that. I've never been
my one of my my, my good close childhood friends
talked me into watching Friday the Thirteenth when I was
I don't even know how old I was. I was
I was young, and Emma was just like, oh, you
know they always put on a movie and then they leave. Well,
of course this movie none of us laught because it
was like just entrancing and had I still have nightmares.

(52:16):
I cannot watch murder Mystery Flash movies.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
It's scary a little bit.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Yeah, it's just ridiculous. They're They're the most corny. You know,
there's no way that I would ever catch anybody. And
we tried. My husband's like, oh, I really want to
watch the Hollowayen movies Michael Myers, and I'm like, okay,
we can try, and nope. I had nightmares at thirty
five years old.

Speaker 1 (52:41):
I'm like, this is so stupid, but nope, your brain
didn't like that. Your brain will want to something totally different. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
No, they're like, okay, let's stick with the hat that
you ever after is and not just so there's stuff.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Please, Right, So did you get a chance to look
and see what your top five favorite movies are? And
I don't think there's gonna be any horror movies of
this listed.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
No, no, there's not seaking in my living room right now.
I'm very I get like I said, I collect books
and movies and I have like one, two, three, four
sets of shelves of movies, and yeah, I would do
the same thing. I'm like, how am I gonna pick five?
But I really like like Quentin Tarantino was one of

(53:30):
my favorite people. His movies are always amazing to me.
And just I actually kind of like the Gourd. I
like how all the stories all mesh together, all weird
or Guy Ritchie's another one that does that where they
just have these little bits of entwining storylines and they
just kind of all come together.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
U huh.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
And I really I like that. And I like the
action comedy like hit Man's Bodyguard or Kingsman. But I'm also,
of course, I love my romance stories and especially like
the I mean I grew I grew up in the
nineties two thousand, so I've got a lot of those
ron coms that are out there attendings to hate about
you and yeah, ever after it's one of my favorite

(54:14):
fairy tale retellings with Drew Barrymore. And yet I also
have Never Been Kissed one.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
That's like one of my favorite movies. Actually, Never Been Kissed,
Never Kissed. I really love that one. And I love
Drew Barrymore. I think she's so.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Much me too. She's got some amazing I mean, she's
just so much fun. She's made some really fun movies. Yeah,
and then I also love the musicals, like in the
third book of the Sweet Nothings trilogy and The Red
Hat Steaks, it starts off with Gena listening to some
of the Phantom of the Opera, and it's kind of

(54:50):
a scene throughout the book. I know, musicals, there's definitely
another genre that it's right up there.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Have you ever been to a musical? Like theater?

Speaker 2 (54:59):
Yeah, I did a little bit of theater in high school.
I was very big on stage. Fright so I started
in the back and then each year they got me
to do a little bit more, and by my senior year,
I actually had some speaking parts that we did much
to do about nothing, and I was the the sheriff
and he like mixes up his letters with his words
all the time and it becomes really hilarious and it

(55:22):
was perfect for me because I do that in real life.
So I'm like, hey, I do this, told me and
I mean I rode like a little hobby horse that
we did the whole coconut thing and it was and yeah,
it was great. But the first musical I ever seen
was Lames and the theater department from school we went
and seen that at Western Michigan University. They had the

(55:43):
Broadway troop come through and do it, and it was
I was like in love with theater. I really wanted it.
Almost like it was hard for me to decide if
I want novels or if I want to do plays
and TV shows, because yeah, that and watching it come
to life is just phenomenal.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
It's really quite magical. Like I remember, I was in
my senior year, they let us I was in the
National Honor Society, so we went to Nashville to see
The Taming of the Shrew, and I loved every single
minute of it. And it was my eyes were just

(56:22):
completely glued to the stage the whole time. And I'm like,
you know, I love I really if I hope that
I get a chance at some point in my life
to go to you know, New York and go see
a show on Broadway. You know, I just love to
watch it. I'm too shy to be up on the stage,
but I love watch of them.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
You know, everyone's going to be a player. And then
they didn't have that if they didn't have an audience,
you know, So I mean that's.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Okay, yes, yes, and yeah, you're right about that. The
fear folks need people. I may either want to go
see them, don't want to do it. I just want
to watch you do it.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
You know, they were without that, so I mean everybody
says their part.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
Yes, I'll be a good spectator. Is there a question
you wish I had have asked you?

Speaker 2 (57:18):
That I did not ask you, so I couldn't think
of any So I asked my daughter and she said, well,
how did you start? How did you become an author?
How did you start? Like that whole journey and how
did you know that you wanted to be an author?

Speaker 1 (57:29):
And I was like, excell next, so sure I can.
I'll put that one down, but tell your daughter questions.
I don't do that.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
He'll see that he was going to be But yeah,
so I it's a kind of along the same lines
of watching the musicals and whatnot. I every year in
elementary school, we would all get a blank paper picture book,
like it was just this plain blank book. You can
get a hardcover one, you can get a soft cover one.

(58:01):
And everybody had to write a story that was their assignment,
and then this acting troop would come through and they
would pick four or five stories to act out on
stage while the person who wrote them got to sit
in this little director's chair on the stage with them
and get to see the story frome to life. And
I think I was in fourth grade when mine got picked,

(58:23):
and it was one of the coolest experiences ever. And
it was just like, Wow, people liked my story. I
got to see my story and this is a really
cool feeling. So that just really stuck with me. And
I mean I wrote all through high school. I wrote
in the paper, I did creative writing classes, and then
like I said, I went to college for it, and

(58:45):
then I did some like through the mail courses, and
it just was really hard for me to balance, like
especially once I had my kid, but like full time
work and trying to have the brain space for a
story on top of that, and then having a baby
and a toddler that takes up. And there's so many
people out there that are like that are writing while

(59:05):
they have these little kids running around, and I'm just like,
that is so much brain space. I just I don't
know that I would have done. You know, I wasn't
ready to do it until she was in school full
time and I was able to drop down to part
time work, so then I had a few days that
I could actually devote to specifically writing.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
And yeah, yeah, because like whenever you're writing, you know,
I don't know how it's it's the same for you.
But it's like I got this internal dialogue going on
in my head and I'm like seeing everything, so I'm
trying to write it all down. What I'm seeing in
my mom my mom's ah, and how my characters are talking,
and any little off thing in you know, the tangible

(59:49):
world can like throw it off, you know, and you know,
I have to have quiet, you know, whenever I'm writing
like that, Are you like that?

Speaker 2 (59:59):
Now? I'm that one that likes to go out to
that's the poplical and find inspiration at coffee shops and
just right away, and I'm like, no, I like my
little spot on my couches absolutely quiet, or outside. I'll
sit outside with my chickens and they'll run around while
I'm writing. But no, I have to Yeah, I don't
listen to music. I don't do any of that. I
just I have to wait and just let it be quiet.

(01:00:21):
So then it's really hard when my kid's home having friends,
or my husband's home. He works from home some so
he'll sit here and like talk and I'm like, I
had my thought, hang on, yes, yes here it's like, okay,
I love you, but just just.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yeah. Sometimes it can be a little bit on the
nerve wrecking side whenever somebody that comes over to visit
that doesn't really understand, and they'll like come over to
my house and I'm working on something and I'm writing,
so I'm sitting there and they think you're just sitting
there all day and that's all you do. No, that's

(01:00:59):
not what I do, I'll know. You know, it's it's
like so much brain work, you know, and you know,
plus you're trying to if you're an independent author and
you don't have the funds yet to have your own editor,
then you're like putting on that hat too, because you
don't want your words to look you know, you don't

(01:01:21):
want to have a bunch of typos whenever you're writing
a little.

Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Bit too fast, you know, the cleanest as you can
possibly do, which that's one of those I love that
about my beta readers is a lot of them will point.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
That out too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
It's so helpful.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
But how do you get a beta writer?

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
There are My biggest successes have been in there's a
couple of Facebook groups and you just type in like
beta readers, and you just start asking for people. And
I do have a friend who boundslay a few on Twitter.
But it's like I said, it's usually a free exchange
once you have a story, that's all the way people
will do. There's a couple of different stages. I mean,

(01:02:01):
that's what I do have a friend who is what
I call my critique partner, and we will like my
automatic first person that reads all my story and people
use different critique partners in different ways. Sometimes they exchange
chapters as they go. Sometimes they do the whole story,
and that's what we prefers, the whole story. But that's
invaluable too because then you kind of know where you're

(01:02:21):
going and make sure that you're on the right track
with everything and the big stuff. That's she's my alpha reader.
She's the one who likes make sure the big stuff
is in line.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
To find the.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Beta readers, there's a couple different groups. I know. There's
there's some, like I said, Twitter groups, and sometimes you
can just post it out there with you know, hey,
hashtag data readers. I need somebody and find people to
like I said, exchange stories is usually the best that
I found. But if you don't have the time for that,
there are people that will just oh yeah, I'll read
your story. That sounds interesting to me, and I just

(01:02:52):
read for free and leave comments and either you know, word,
Google docs, depending on what your preferences, some people use PDF,
and yeah, it's I mean, it's a little nerve wracking
because you're sending a story to somebody that you don't
necessarily know. But again, it's not good face and and
deut the feedback that you get is very valuable.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Yes, yeah, definitely can see that, you know. And one
more question is where can people find you online?

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Like, where yet, I'm everywhere. I have I have threads,
I have Instagram, I have TikTok, I have Twitter, I
have a Facebook, and I have a Facebook group from
Maren's bookmook where we chat about whatever what's coming up next,
and put out every every month. It gets a little

(01:03:45):
draining to be on social media so much.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
But do you have it all in your link tree?

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Yep, It's on my link tree, Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
So I will make sure I'll post that for everybody
so they can find you and you know, get hopefully,
you know, some good sales on your book and you know,
check out that the lake story that you wrote and
all the other cool stuff. I really do appreciate you
being my second guest. I really want to do this,

(01:04:14):
you know, try to help independent authors get their names
out there because and their work's out there. Because I
see how hard Travis was working, how hard you know,
we all work, you know, as writers, and we don't
have like all the fancy stuff these other people have,
you know, so we got to kind of be there.

(01:04:34):
For each other, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
Yeah, and then that's one of my favorite things to
do is when I find an author that I like
or that it is in my circle and people are
asking for recommendations, and I'm like, oh, read this book,
Oh read this book, And I mean, we have to
do that. We just have to lift each other up
and just help each other out. And I appreciate you
having me and help them lift me up. That's that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Yeah, I mean, like you get people to actually, you know,
hear your voice, Travis's and whoever the future guests I have,
you know, like get your voice out there so you
can say in your own words, you know, your own story,
you know, because I think we all have a story
inside of us that we just we want to tell

(01:05:16):
and we want people to hear because, like you know,
you were saying, like in your fourth grade year, somebody
read that story and they liked it, and then you know,
it just kind of like gave you that boost, right
and it gives you a fire to want to keep
on writing. So you know, that's kind of what I'm

(01:05:37):
wanting to do for people, you know, because I love that,
you know, because we I love Stephen King don't get
me wrong. I love you know, R. L. Stein and
all these other FAMOUSY type authors, but there's some really
good independent authors out there that have written from some
stories that would completely go ahead, you know, head ahead

(01:06:00):
with them.

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
You know, yeah, there are. And I do feel like
the publishing system is quite it's broken. I mean, there's
it's so hard to get anyone's voice out there. And
I know that there's a lot of the bypack people
that are just you know, they're supposed to I mean,
they're asking for them, and then you see them get rejected.
Because there was one I saw on Twitter not too
long ago that the she was using Chinese terminology I

(01:06:25):
think it was, and was rejected because it was too
confusing to understand. And it's like, well, how am I
supposed to tell my story when you won't let me?

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
So I understand that a lot of people are going
to self publishing because it's such a little narrow box
that the publishing industry wants to put you in.

Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Yeah, like they want to change way too much of
what you originally saw your works being, you know, whatever
your work was. And you know, actually last year I
was I still am very much into the guy, but
I was following. I don't know if you watch like

(01:07:10):
Better Call Saul or anything, but the guy that plays
it is Bob the Odin Kirk. And he was writing
a book with his I mean, he's famous, right, and
even he got rejected like forty some odd times before
he actually got the book. He was working on with
his family, this poetry book accepted by somebody. And his

(01:07:34):
daughter is like an artist, and she wrote, she drew
she I think she also helped with a lot of
the poems too, but she was drawing like in her
own style, and it's a kind of like a Doctor
Seuss sort of Phil Silverstone sort of feel. And they
tried one of the publishing companies wanted her, from what

(01:07:57):
I understand, wanted her to change to an anime sort
of drawing's anime too, but that's not her style. Yeah, yeah, right,
And I mean even then, even you know, that family
that's famous, they still try to get you to change
what you originally you know, saw your work being.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
You know, so I don't have to fit into marketability
and that just it's like, you know, people like new things,
so that should be taken into consideration.

Speaker 1 (01:08:29):
I think, yeah, yeah, you know, like, uh, it would
be really cool to have a publishing company out there
that actually, you know, just let people be themselves, you know,
and not give authors and writers, you know, grief about

(01:08:50):
like how they're seeing it, Like if it makes logical sense,
like if there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Know, everyone needs that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Yeah, but like if it makes logical sense how the
story's going, how it's written, and everything like that, I
don't think it needs to be changed, you know, if
it's logical.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Right, especially if it's you know, highlighting someone's heritage or
traditions or really something that not everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
Is familiar with her understands. But just because of it,
because of their narrow viewpoint or their narrow way that
they've been exposed to the world, just because it doesn't
sit into that doesn't make it wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Yes, m And that wraps up our chat with a
wonderful Maren Jenner. If you're a romance reader or just
love diving into great stories, you'll definitely want to check
out her work. You can find Maren all over social media,
where she shares updates, behind the scene, looks at her
writing process, and plenty of inspiration for fellow authors. She's

(01:09:56):
active on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, and she's even experimenting
with the new Amazon Villa platform where you can catch
some of the latest episodes of The Lake Effect. It's
been such a pleasure having Maren on the show today,
and I hope you've all enjoyed getting to know her
and hearing her journey as an indie author. Remember, if

(01:10:17):
you're an independent author out there, this show is all
about getting your voice hurt and making sure your stories
fund their audience. So stay tuned for more conversations like this,
and if you're not already following The Uncomfortable Talk Show,
make sure to hit that subscribe follow button. Also, if
you're interested in being a guest on the show, reach
out to me on social media. You can find me

(01:10:39):
on Twitter writing poetry, and you can also drop me
an email at s M Moore that's sm m R
E one two nine at gmail dot com. Whether you're
just starting out or you've got a few books under
your belt, I'd love to help you get your story heard.
Thanks again to Maren for joys today, and thank you

(01:11:01):
listeners for tuning in. Until next time, Keep writing, keep creating,
and don't be afraid to share your voice. With the world.
I'm Susan Moore and this has been the uncomfortable talk
show where I help any authors find their audience. Tut
out for now.

All Episodes

0203: Maren Jenner Interview - Writing the Wrong Brother

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Betrayal: Weekly

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}0203: Maren Jenner Interview - Writing the Wrong Brother