August 20, 2025 • 11 mins
Season 3 kicks off with a tough but necessary conversation: what happens when anxiety meets faith — and the church gets it wrong? Too often, anxiety gets reduced to “a lack of faith” or “just pray harder.” But that kind of bad theology doesn’t heal; it harms.
In this episode, Susan unpacks why anxiety is more than a “spiritual weakness,” how scripture has been misused in these conversations, and why it matters to hold both faith and mental health with honesty. Along the way, expect some humor, some rawness, and the reminder that you’re not alone if you’ve wrestled with this tension.
Because permission to question… also means permission to breathe.
In this episode, Susan unpacks why anxiety is more than a “spiritual weakness,” how scripture has been misused in these conversations, and why it matters to hold both faith and mental health with honesty. Along the way, expect some humor, some rawness, and the reminder that you’re not alone if you’ve wrestled with this tension.
Because permission to question… also means permission to breathe.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, I'm Susan Moore, and this is the uncomfortable talk show,
the podcast where we get real about the messy stuff, faith, life,
even a little bit of comedy and that awkward middle
ground most people will avoid. If you've been with me
since season one, you know that this show has started
royal me just trying to find my voice, sometimes stumbling,
(00:24):
sometimes still stumbling and rambling. By season two, I was
sitting down with any authors like Travis Knight, Maren Jenner,
and Jessica Foster, and those conversations reminded me, while I
love doing this. Now here we are season three, it's
still me, Still we're all and still personal. But this
(00:47):
time I've got a plan. I've always had a plan,
but now it's even more so. I've got ten episodes,
each one peeling back another layer of the messy mix
of faith, doubt, humor and just being human. This season,
I'm going deeper, less polished, more intentional. We'll talk about anxiety,
(01:08):
the Bible and bad theology. We'll laugh at things we're
not supposed to laugh at, and yes, there will be nonsense,
because if we can't laugh at ourselves, what's the point.
So new episodes drop every Wednesday evening, something to reflect on,
to set with, maybe even to share with a friend
who needs it. Season three is here. Let's get uncomfortable together,
(01:33):
So let's start here. Anxiety is real, and I don't
mean the I left the oven own coin of worry.
I mean the kind that hijack's your body every day.
Worry is a thought, did I send that email? What
if my pants are still in dryer? What if the
boss is cranky tomorrow. That's the mental treadmill Jesus was
(01:55):
talking about in Matthew six. Do not worry about tomorrow.
But clinical anxiety that's different. That's when your body overrides reason.
Your heart races, your muscles lock, your stomach drops, your
brain blares alarms even though nothing is actually wrong. It
(02:16):
is not a weakness, it's not a lack of faith.
It's your body hitting the panic button and refusing to
turn it off. Yes, the Bible does talk about worry.
Paul said, be anxious for nothing. Jesus said, don't worry
about tomorrow. That's spiritual wisdom for ordinary stress. But that
is not the same as clinical anxiety. And I bring
(02:40):
this up because this is where pastors that I've heard
over the years, Like Doug Wilson, they go off the rails.
People like him like to say things like set your
mind and heart on God. Okay, that's fine, but hearts
can malfunction. If someone collapse this is from a heart attack,
(03:01):
you don't stand over them and yell and say, well
you should have say your heart ton God better. That
would be insane. But pastors and people like to do
that with the brain all the time. When someone's panicking, shaking, spiraling,
they call it a sin. That's not just bad theology,
(03:22):
that's spiritual malpractice. And this is an abstract for me.
My dad battled bopolar disorder, schizophrenia, and later dementia. On
top of that, he had congestive her failure and enlarged heart.
He lost his lung and his kidneys gave him very
very bad trouble towards the end. You know what, I
(03:46):
never once thought and all that that his illnesses were sins,
That his heart condition meant he didn't love God enough,
that losing along meant he lacked faith, that dementia was
some kind of spiritual failure. But that's exactly what some
pastors imply when they talk about anxiety, as if it's
just a sin problem. They never dream of saying to
(04:06):
a man in cardiac arrest, if only you trusted God more,
maybe your arteries wouldn't be blocked. But somehow they think
it's fine to say that to someone who's brain chemistry
has gone haywire. That double standard, that's what I'm calling out,
because both the heart and the brain are organs, and
(04:27):
both can break. And when you grew up in a
church culture, when you grew up in church culture, mental
health struggles are dismissed as weaknesses or sin, and it
leaves marks, real marks. I've watched people I love carry
(04:47):
shame they didn't deserve. I've carried some of that shame
myself because if the message is you're anxious because you're faithless,
what do you do? You hide it? But hiding pain
doesn't heal it, it festers. That's why this isn't just
bad theology. There's a spiritual malpractice that leaves life's long scars.
(05:11):
When pastors collapse categories treating everyday worry and clinical anxiety
as the same thing. People get crushed. If you're already
battling panic attacks and then you hear you're shaking a
sin you're spiraling thoughts or faithfulness that does not heal you,
that drives you deeper into despair. And despair is where
(05:31):
people give up on God, on the Church, and sometimes
even on life. That's the cost of sloppy theology, not
showing compassion to our fellow neighbors, trying to be judgmental
like that. You know, it's insane and it bothers me
if I wanted to go full Doug Wilsson kind of
(05:54):
like speak on this, and he's not the only one.
He's not the only preacher, and he's not the only
religious person that says is. But I'd say something like
anxiety one properly contextualized with in the great cosmic framework
of fallen man, is merely the faint trimmer of unbelief
echoing through the cracked vessel of the human will. See
(06:18):
what I did there. It's a lot of fancy words,
zero actual help, and it makes the sufferer feel even smaller.
So let me drop back and say it plain. Anxiety
is real, it has a physical cause, and reducing it
to sin is lazy and it's cruel. Now, I think
(06:38):
there's always somebody out there thinking, well, if she doesn't
use big songs words. She must not know what she's
talking about, so fine. Here's the jargon version. Anxiety is
when your body stress system gets stuck on overdrive. Your
brain alarms keep firing, and your whole body system floods
with chemicals. It doesn't need plain english. Your brain's car
(07:02):
alarm won't shut off. Same point, wig less the Sorro's abuse.
My dad has gone now, but my brother struggles with anxiety,
real clinical anxiety, the cond that makes his handshake while
he's just sitting next to me watching a YouTube video.
And I still hear the same voices. This is sin.
(07:25):
You're saying, God is on You should be ashamed. I
won't let that stand. I won't watch another person I
love be crushed under a false gospel of self blame,
because the truth is this. Anxiety attacks come uninvited, Depression
calls around you without warning. It's not real power. It's
not a moral failure. It's not sin. It's sickness, and
(07:50):
sickness requires care, not condemnation. Here's where I land. I'm
not saying this is a malthy heathen woman out of
her lane. I'm saying this is a Christian. I'm saying
this is a human I believe I am saved by
grace alone, through Christ alone, because of the cross period,
and because of that, I believe this too. Pastors don't
(08:11):
get to slap a sin label on medical conditions and
shrug when people collapse under the weight of it. That's
not faithfulness, that's abuse. If you're struggling with anxiety, hear me,
you are not a second rate Christian. And if you're
not a Christian, you are not a second rate human.
You are not being punished by God. Your brain and
body are part of creation. Sometimes they break down like
(08:34):
a heart does or a pancreas does. That's not sin,
that's human frailty. And God's grace meets us there. Think
about it like this. Jesus himself sweated blood in gethsemane,
a panic level stress response, and he did not sin.
(08:54):
If his body can manifest that, then it's not sinful
when yours does it either. So here's the uncomfortable truth.
The Bible warns us not to let ordinary worry consume us,
but it does not say panic disorder is a sin.
That's pastors like that are still stuck in a strange place.
(09:17):
That's them talking, not Jesus. If you wrestle with anxiety
or worth isn't canceled. Your salvation is a revoked Grace
still applies to you, and Grace is still there for you,
and Christ still does love you. This podcast that I'm
doing isn't just about mental health. I'm trying to break
(09:38):
laws wide open. It's about giving voice to people who
have been told to shut up, push through, man up,
or pray harder. It's about saying You're not broken because
you struggle, You're not sinful because you shake. You are
human and you are loved. So this is why I'm here,
(09:59):
this is why speaking, and this is why I won't
shut up anymore, especially about this topic. I'm Susan Moore
and this has been the uncomfortable talk show. Sometimes this
truth stings a little, but it's better than a lot
that wounds a lot. And the pastors that are still
stuck in this strange belief that they have want to
(10:21):
write me a three thousand word blog full of fifty
dollars words about how I'm wrong. Perfect send me the link.
I'll translate it into English for everyone else. See you
next time.
Hello, I'm Susan Moore, and this is the uncomfortable talk show,
the podcast where we get real about the messy stuff, faith, life,
even a little bit of comedy and that awkward middle
ground most people will avoid. If you've been with me
since season one, you know that this show has started
royal me just trying to find my voice, sometimes stumbling,
(00:24):
sometimes still stumbling and rambling. By season two, I was
sitting down with any authors like Travis Knight, Maren Jenner,
and Jessica Foster, and those conversations reminded me, while I
love doing this. Now here we are season three, it's
still me, Still we're all and still personal. But this
(00:47):
time I've got a plan. I've always had a plan,
but now it's even more so. I've got ten episodes,
each one peeling back another layer of the messy mix
of faith, doubt, humor and just being human. This season,
I'm going deeper, less polished, more intentional. We'll talk about anxiety,
(01:08):
the Bible and bad theology. We'll laugh at things we're
not supposed to laugh at, and yes, there will be nonsense,
because if we can't laugh at ourselves, what's the point.
So new episodes drop every Wednesday evening, something to reflect on,
to set with, maybe even to share with a friend
who needs it. Season three is here. Let's get uncomfortable together,
(01:33):
So let's start here. Anxiety is real, and I don't
mean the I left the oven own coin of worry.
I mean the kind that hijack's your body every day.
Worry is a thought, did I send that email? What
if my pants are still in dryer? What if the
boss is cranky tomorrow. That's the mental treadmill Jesus was
(01:55):
talking about in Matthew six. Do not worry about tomorrow.
But clinical anxiety that's different. That's when your body overrides reason.
Your heart races, your muscles lock, your stomach drops, your
brain blares alarms even though nothing is actually wrong. It
(02:16):
is not a weakness, it's not a lack of faith.
It's your body hitting the panic button and refusing to
turn it off. Yes, the Bible does talk about worry.
Paul said, be anxious for nothing. Jesus said, don't worry
about tomorrow. That's spiritual wisdom for ordinary stress. But that
is not the same as clinical anxiety. And I bring
(02:40):
this up because this is where pastors that I've heard
over the years, Like Doug Wilson, they go off the rails.
People like him like to say things like set your
mind and heart on God. Okay, that's fine, but hearts
can malfunction. If someone collapse this is from a heart attack,
(03:01):
you don't stand over them and yell and say, well
you should have say your heart ton God better. That
would be insane. But pastors and people like to do
that with the brain all the time. When someone's panicking, shaking, spiraling,
they call it a sin. That's not just bad theology,
(03:22):
that's spiritual malpractice. And this is an abstract for me.
My dad battled bopolar disorder, schizophrenia, and later dementia. On
top of that, he had congestive her failure and enlarged heart.
He lost his lung and his kidneys gave him very
very bad trouble towards the end. You know what, I
(03:46):
never once thought and all that that his illnesses were sins,
That his heart condition meant he didn't love God enough,
that losing along meant he lacked faith, that dementia was
some kind of spiritual failure. But that's exactly what some
pastors imply when they talk about anxiety, as if it's
just a sin problem. They never dream of saying to
(04:06):
a man in cardiac arrest, if only you trusted God more,
maybe your arteries wouldn't be blocked. But somehow they think
it's fine to say that to someone who's brain chemistry
has gone haywire. That double standard, that's what I'm calling out,
because both the heart and the brain are organs, and
(04:27):
both can break. And when you grew up in a
church culture, when you grew up in church culture, mental
health struggles are dismissed as weaknesses or sin, and it
leaves marks, real marks. I've watched people I love carry
(04:47):
shame they didn't deserve. I've carried some of that shame
myself because if the message is you're anxious because you're faithless,
what do you do? You hide it? But hiding pain
doesn't heal it, it festers. That's why this isn't just
bad theology. There's a spiritual malpractice that leaves life's long scars.
(05:11):
When pastors collapse categories treating everyday worry and clinical anxiety
as the same thing. People get crushed. If you're already
battling panic attacks and then you hear you're shaking a
sin you're spiraling thoughts or faithfulness that does not heal you,
that drives you deeper into despair. And despair is where
(05:31):
people give up on God, on the Church, and sometimes
even on life. That's the cost of sloppy theology, not
showing compassion to our fellow neighbors, trying to be judgmental
like that. You know, it's insane and it bothers me
if I wanted to go full Doug Wilsson kind of
(05:54):
like speak on this, and he's not the only one.
He's not the only preacher, and he's not the only
religious person that says is. But I'd say something like
anxiety one properly contextualized with in the great cosmic framework
of fallen man, is merely the faint trimmer of unbelief
echoing through the cracked vessel of the human will. See
(06:18):
what I did there. It's a lot of fancy words,
zero actual help, and it makes the sufferer feel even smaller.
So let me drop back and say it plain. Anxiety
is real, it has a physical cause, and reducing it
to sin is lazy and it's cruel. Now, I think
(06:38):
there's always somebody out there thinking, well, if she doesn't
use big songs words. She must not know what she's
talking about, so fine. Here's the jargon version. Anxiety is
when your body stress system gets stuck on overdrive. Your
brain alarms keep firing, and your whole body system floods
with chemicals. It doesn't need plain english. Your brain's car
(07:02):
alarm won't shut off. Same point, wig less the Sorro's abuse.
My dad has gone now, but my brother struggles with anxiety,
real clinical anxiety, the cond that makes his handshake while
he's just sitting next to me watching a YouTube video.
And I still hear the same voices. This is sin.
(07:25):
You're saying, God is on You should be ashamed. I
won't let that stand. I won't watch another person I
love be crushed under a false gospel of self blame,
because the truth is this. Anxiety attacks come uninvited, Depression
calls around you without warning. It's not real power. It's
not a moral failure. It's not sin. It's sickness, and
(07:50):
sickness requires care, not condemnation. Here's where I land. I'm
not saying this is a malthy heathen woman out of
her lane. I'm saying this is a Christian. I'm saying
this is a human I believe I am saved by
grace alone, through Christ alone, because of the cross period,
and because of that, I believe this too. Pastors don't
(08:11):
get to slap a sin label on medical conditions and
shrug when people collapse under the weight of it. That's
not faithfulness, that's abuse. If you're struggling with anxiety, hear me,
you are not a second rate Christian. And if you're
not a Christian, you are not a second rate human.
You are not being punished by God. Your brain and
body are part of creation. Sometimes they break down like
(08:34):
a heart does or a pancreas does. That's not sin,
that's human frailty. And God's grace meets us there. Think
about it like this. Jesus himself sweated blood in gethsemane,
a panic level stress response, and he did not sin.
(08:54):
If his body can manifest that, then it's not sinful
when yours does it either. So here's the uncomfortable truth.
The Bible warns us not to let ordinary worry consume us,
but it does not say panic disorder is a sin.
That's pastors like that are still stuck in a strange place.
(09:17):
That's them talking, not Jesus. If you wrestle with anxiety
or worth isn't canceled. Your salvation is a revoked Grace
still applies to you, and Grace is still there for you,
and Christ still does love you. This podcast that I'm
doing isn't just about mental health. I'm trying to break
(09:38):
laws wide open. It's about giving voice to people who
have been told to shut up, push through, man up,
or pray harder. It's about saying You're not broken because
you struggle, You're not sinful because you shake. You are
human and you are loved. So this is why I'm here,
(09:59):
this is why speaking, and this is why I won't
shut up anymore, especially about this topic. I'm Susan Moore
and this has been the uncomfortable talk show. Sometimes this
truth stings a little, but it's better than a lot
that wounds a lot. And the pastors that are still
stuck in this strange belief that they have want to
(10:21):
write me a three thousand word blog full of fifty
dollars words about how I'm wrong. Perfect send me the link.
I'll translate it into English for everyone else. See you
next time.
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