TVF - EP7 - Shane Michael Crisp - Cryptozoologist and Researcher Interview

Tonight, I interview Shane Michael Crisp a cryptozoologist and investigator for quite sometime studying in the region of the south US and discovering new finds and discoveries on the cryptid pheonmenon. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Our world is filled with darkness that nobody can explain.
In what we face, we also encounter the work of evil.
Join us tonight as we dive into subject matter of
something wicked and macalm that inflicts our modern world. You're
listening to the Venomous Fringe.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
And I am sitting with none other than Shane Michael Crisp,
whom has a very amazing record so far of cryptozoology work.
He has a very successful podcast as well as some
successful groups on social media, and he has a lot
to discuss in terms of research and belief. And we've
had a very interesting discussion before we started recording the

(00:50):
show and not still ongoing, and even before we started
to sit down and talk, you know, we were texting
back and forth for about almost a year and you know,
very intelligent individual and upcoming in terms of research, and
he amongst many who are boots in the ground who
I strongly admire. So, ladies and gentlemen, welcome Shane to
the show. Shane's my pleasure to have you here. How

(01:11):
are you tonight, sir?

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hey brother, It's a pleasure of mind to be on
your show. I'm doing great. How about yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:17):
I'm doing fantastic. Thank you. Yeah, no, it's my pleasure,
especially because I've been following you for about I think
since the summer of last year, and I remember when
I first commented in one of your groups. I forgot
which one I first came across, and I remember I
came across you via Paul Chaffin and a couple other gentlemen,

(01:39):
and I was very intrigued by a lot of your
research and of course a lot of the things that
you were discussing in the group, primarily about bigfoots and dogmen.
But one of the things that we were touching base
on prior this is when we were last speaking. You've
been only doing this for quite a little bit. So
before we get into all the juicy bits of your
research and of course your beliefs, is I wanted to

(02:01):
ask you that one two three question basically about what
got you into all of this, What fascinates you about cryptosoology,
What got you into the whole aspect of research in cryptos.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Well, ever since I was a little kid, I was
always a firm believer and just always curious about the
mysterious and the unknown, like the UFOs and the bigfoots.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
And sasquatch and lockness Monster.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
I mean, you name it something that was mysterious unknown.
It spiked my interest, but I never really jumped into it,
just because of the fear and the ridicule and people
thinking you're crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
So I didn't really ever dive into it.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
My freshman year, I went to the library and I
saw a book that said Roswell. It was like a
four hundred and fifty page book. I checked it out.
I was like, okay, let's see if this really did happen.
And reading the book, you know, it took me about
two weeks, you know, being playing sports and having a
girlfriend and living life on MySpace, you know, back in
two thousand and five, thousand and six that you know,

(02:58):
I was able to finish it. But there was but
it touched so many key details on it, and it
really fascinated me. With the UFOs and UFOs and UAPs,
I mean outer space, it just really opened up my mind.
And you know, I always thought, you know, I could
meet someone that was like minded and open minded to
the unknown. With UFOs, I would sit down and just
ask him questions and think, you know, ask them what

(03:20):
they think, and we would just bounce ideas off. Like
a former coworker of mine, we sat for four hours
at work, and I mean we were multitasking, but we
were talking the whole time just about space, and it
just really spiked my curiosity. But it wasn't until about
almost two years ago. I'd say August of twenty twenty
one is when I came across my co worker telling
me about dog Man and he's like, dude, I really

(03:43):
want to see a dog Man. I laughed at the
name because the name was just hysterical. It sounded like
something like the cartoon that you see. It just it's
a joke, same thing with a bigfoot name. It just
it's something to laugh at. I just never took it serious.
But he's like, hey, dude, let's sit down and just
listen to a big Kundiff's show and just take a
few episodes and listen to them, but keep an open
mind to it. If Bigfoot can exist, then why couldn't

(04:05):
these things? And so I started listening and I didn't
know if they were creepy pasta because I really didn't
know what creepy pasta was. But I started looking a
little bit more into it, and I was like, Okay,
maybe these are just really good stories or just click
bait material. But then there was one encounter that really
got me was a gentleman named Ryan, and Ryan talked
about the intelligence of these things. And I don't remember

(04:26):
what episode it was, but I was so fascinated with
the two hour episode that I started googling it, and
I think, you know, August October, I would say, I
really just spent online just googling anything I could find
across anything with dog man, and I came across Paul
Schaeffin's YouTube and his Facebook group Kentucky dog Man Project,

(04:47):
and I started seeing all the photos, photos that not
a lot of people post on because it's always pinterest
werewolves and stuff like that. But he was actually going
out there and taking pictures. And you could say it's paradolia,
you could say what you want about it, but ninety
percent of the people in his group all see the
same thing. And there was a couple of photos that
really just blew my mind, and I'm like, Hey, this

(05:09):
guy's onto something. And then relating the stories where he's
at in Kentucky to the ones you hear on YouTube,
and it's just like Tennessee and Kentucky are does hotspots.
So I messaged Paul and I'm like, hey, man, I'm
out here on the West. I don't know if there's
really a whole lot of dog Man reports. I mean,
I live in Bigfoot country, you know, with the Patterson
Kimblin film was you know, filmed back in the sixties,

(05:30):
and you know that's but it really despiked my interest
and I started asking him how does he do it?
And he started teaching me, you know, on how he
does his techniques and how he gets his footage. And
I mean the guy will record four minutes of video
and then spend twelve hours going frame by frame by
frame just trying to see what he sees that anything
that pops out of an ordinary And that's how I started.

(05:52):
And that's what i'd say about talking to him, and
I had picking his brain for three months. Is when
I finally sat down and was like, Okay, I've learned
a lot from Paul, and I'm still learning to this
day different techniques and what he picks up. But it
got me into wanting to create a Kentucky dog Man project,
but something on the West, you know, my own personal group.
That's what I started up West Coast dog Man Project

(06:14):
and started doing my own research and sharing evidence. And
you know, I started doing that for the last year
or so. But after a while and sharing it to
other groups, I started noticing my photos were getting butchered
and I was getting crucified and saying it was paradolia.
And it got to the point where I just I
didn't stop researching that way, because I still go through
old photos and I look at him, but I maybe

(06:37):
go more towards the evidence side, to where if I
hear a dog man encounter or someone reports something to me,
I'm gonna drive out there and I'm gonna go look,
and I'm gonna look for, you know, the mattedown grass.
I'm looking for claw marks on the tree, hair samples,
FeCO matter, dead carcasses. But you know, I was still
trying to have a photo or a recording device, still
recording me, you know, on a three sixty level, and

(06:59):
still check my surroundings because eventually I will go back
and use that footage and just try to see if
I see you know, dark shadows in the tree lines
or anything like that. But that's what really got me
into you know, diving, you know, head first was taking
off the fear factor of you know, the ridicule two
years ago, and I just said, you know, I have
nothing to lose, but everything to gain is nothing but knowledge.

(07:22):
So I just dove in head first. And dog Man
is my favorite cryptid. But I will never ignore, you know,
the bigfoots, the lockness, monsters of the UFOs. I'm still when
it comes to cryptozoology, and I'm a junkie. I'll read
anything and I'll redshare anything. I you know, see, but
my main interest in the cryptozoology field is the dog Man,
and I will say that hands down. I'm not an expert.

(07:45):
I will never claim to be an expert. Like you
said earlier, I feel like i've I'm like a sponge.
I'm a new guy. I'm the rookie. I'm just hey,
whatever you tell me or whatever I listened to, I
soak it up like a sponge and and hopefully one
day I can relate that information to future researchers. Are
people that are interested in the field and just you know,
at the end of the day, just tell them, hey,
keep an open mind, because that's what I do.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Incredible, you know, it's a lot of things he touched
on from Roswell to dog Man Encounters to the dog
Man cryptid in to a whole bunch of other discussions
as well in terms of research and investigators and what not.
And there's a lot of things that's going to be
tied into tonight's an interview. I want to pick your
brain a little bit going back to Roswell real quick,

(08:32):
because I'm currently in the process of doing a short
little documentary on Injured Cold and anything in relations towards
UFO anomaly and anything paranormal, and that goes for even
grays and mysterious figures. What does your overall take on Roswell?
Do you think that there was a lot going on
at that particular incident in forty seven, a technological advantage,

(08:55):
especially that early in the twentieth century.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
Oh yeah, I definitely.

Speaker 4 (08:59):
I mean I believe that that did happen, and I
believe the government obviously did cover it up saying it
was a weather balloon. But it's really going and looking
at the evidence afterwards. I mean they found, you know,
night vision kevlar lasers. I mean, microwaves came out, you
know in the fifties. I mean, we were still cooking
on fires and you know wooden stoves or you know
stoves with wooden pellets. I mean the technology boom from

(09:23):
Roswell to the sixties, that was just I mean we
were cavemen compared to where we were using you know,
high technology, the lasers, the CDs. I mean, if you
look at it from the nineteen forty seven to just
the year two thousand computers, I mean, it's just technology.
I would say we jumped one hundred and fifty years
just in a sixty year time frame. Then we were,

(09:45):
you know, the previous two hundred years, we were kind
of still staying the same with weaponry, the way we traveled,
you know, on horseback. I mean we've got we're flying
to the moon now, twenty years after Roswell. I mean,
it's I just really, I do believe it happened, and
I believe Roswell was just one of many Roswell's. I
believe there's Roswell's all across the world. I mean, there
was a crash in Europe. There was a crash or

(10:07):
in I want to say it was a Germany during
World War Two. I believe, and I believe that's what
steered the Nazis away from you know, taking over the
world was Hitler's fascination going with the alien technology and
the bell that people have talked about, and time travel
and just the technology they received, you know, and what
the weird thing about it, Not to jump off subject

(10:29):
from Roswell, but was all those scientists that came over
and they were given, you know, new names, and they
worked for NASA. I mean, it's just the stuff that
really diving into the UFO phenomenon I'm in, which I've
done way before I got into the dog Man. It's
just there's so many things that parallel in the line
to the Roswell incident that it's just like just for

(10:49):
people to be so closed by and say, oh, you know,
there's nothing out there, but they hide this thing.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
In plain sight.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
I mean disclosures happening right now. They're releasing little bits
of information, but there it in plain sight. So when
you know, it's just one of those that when they
do say, hey, you see a news article when you
log on to the internet, Oh, a UFO seen over
San Diego, California, it's like, oh, it's just whatever, it's
gonna become normal. So that's what they're eventually gonna do.

(11:14):
I believe, just like what they're doing with the UFOs,
what they might just do with the Bigfoot and the
dog Man. I mean, it'll be years down the road,
but I believe that it's what's happening. But with Roswell,
one hundred percent, I believe it happened.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, no, I'm with you on it. I honestly do
believe the same thing. I think also too with Roswell,
there was a lot of things that were left undiscussed.
That we're huge technological advances towards our US government and
military and of course anything and above that. One other
thing I will say too, is is that in the
twentieth century there was a lot it was almost like

(11:52):
it was the evolutionary phase for so many things. Of course,
but you know, a cryptozoology and the dog man. You know,
you talk about the dog man, and we'll talk about
the dog Man a bit more momentarily. But with dogmen, Bigfoot,
and even UFO discussion, it wasn't as hyped as it
is now. I mean, of course, we have so many

(12:12):
resources in the twenty first century, things to social media,
thanks to technical advances such as a computer such as
social media's Facebook. You know, we have so many ways
of reaching out. There's so many different ways of getting
content out, you know, YouTube is another platform. So for
the research aspect, I want to touch base on a

(12:34):
couple things that many researchers I think now are seeing
to be challenging, and that is comes to credibility. Seeing
as you've been only doing this for quite some time,
you've probably seen a lot of the happenings when it
comes to storytelling, narration, and accountability. How challenging is it
do you think nowadays to present something, especially in the

(12:58):
term of cryptozoology and trying to gather a belief system,
when there's so many different ways people are presenting it
when it comes to the narrative of telling it like
it's a horror story, whether built monsters, which of course
they can be considered monsters, but not like these monsters
we see in science fiction movies for example.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, that's the thing is it's really hard to tell now,
Like you said, with social media and YouTube, what's put
out there.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
You know, That's what really gets me is.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
I believe what these people have a good intentions, but
at the same time I think it hurts the cryptozoology field.
Is these people that are posting these creepy pasta stories,
are taking five really good encounters, changing up the vocabulary,
making it sound you know, like we were talking about earlier.
Sometimes people might not have the best literature or spelling,
but at same time someone comes in there rechanges it

(13:51):
or just smashes three or four encounters together. And then
we'll go on the internet and create an AI generated
photo of a dog man off of a trail camp
and then say, hey, look at what happen and this
is a creepy looking dog man that's been terrorizing you know,
the national parks in Michigan. And then people are just
wanting to jump to it because I believe us as
humans we want to just go. We don't want to
see the evidence, not per se everybody, but you know,

(14:14):
the general public is going to be like, oh, that's cool,
I want to listen to that. People are drawn towards
the creepy pasta the whore. They want to hear the
frightening dog man encounters. They don't want to hear about
someone that was running down the trail at you know,
four o'clock in the morning, right before they had to
go to work, and they saw a dog man run
across the field.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
You know, it's something like that, it's not clickbait material.

Speaker 4 (14:33):
I really think that in the twenty first century, we're
kind of it's really hard to tell what's real and
what's not. We get a lot of people that are
circulating photos like they was talking about earlier, the AI
generated photos, and people are like, Oh, that's a terrifying
looking dog man, I've seen something real similar to it.
But you're getting these people that just share photos and
not saying hey, it's AI generated or I mean, you

(14:55):
can really tell what's generated and what's not. Just the technology,
but there's some really good looking legit photos that that
have been circulating that people are like, hey, that looks
really real. But I almost think it's almost like a
sixth sense, like you know what's good and what's not.
Someone that posts on YouTube that posts daily encounters, it's like,

(15:16):
are they really getting this much information was sent to them?
I highly doubt it, because the dog main phenomenon is growing,
and I do believe it's surpassed the Bigfoot as in
curiosity and the new cryptid that everyone's like wanting to
learn about. But I do believe that there's people that
you know, do make money off of YouTube, and we'll
write up a legit three page story and then read

(15:37):
it on their platform and say, hey, this was a
dogman encounter from somewhere and explain it. Then they're gonna
get views. And that's how they make their you know
side hustle with money. And I mean, to monetize a
cryptid it's it's unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
But it happens.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
But I mean, if you could put out good content,
I mean I'm not one to say, hey, you're what
you're doing is wrong. I mean, hey, if you can
monetize it, great, Just like with the LBL case, the
best way to get people from going down there is
if they do go down there, just monetize it. Just
sell where we'll you know, t shirts, hats, you know, toys,

(16:14):
so the people would stay out of the area from
the locals that do believe that the incidents did happen
back in nineteen eighty two. I'm that would be one
way to keep them out is just monetize it, just
like they've done with Bigfoot.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
I agree with you. You bring up another topic too,
and that's the AI art aspect, you know, and AI
has been introductionary for us in the last few years
now for a lot of things, and now art is
becoming that new topic. There are so many different ways
of doing fake art of something that could be real,
you know, or a photoshop that is one hundred percent

(16:47):
more legitimate than an actual photoshop, duplicate, you know, the
computer does it yourself, does it for you instead of
you doing it yourself. So I noticed that there's a
few AI dog band photographs going around. I can only
speak of the idea of them because of these YouTube
videos I've seen of people telling stories and I figured

(17:08):
this out later on. And the reason I bring it
up is because it's so easy for people to manipulate
a photograph and to say it's real, especially now with
it being AI. Do you think that this is a
positive for bringing in legit people of interest to belief

(17:29):
or is it also bad because you think that this
is a good way to mislead and show the bad
side of cryptozoology.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
That's a good question, Chris, actually really is, because I mean,
either way you look at it, it's good and bad.

Speaker 3 (17:44):
I believe it. I'll start off with a good portion
of it.

Speaker 4 (17:47):
I think with it being good because like you said,
with technology being as good as it is people manipulating
photos is it's going to bring people that are curious
and that are open minded to it, saying hey, that
looks really legit and all interest into it. Which one
thing I'm all about is Dogman and spreading awareness about
these things and saying, hey, these things you know are
possibly out there. I mean, just trying to bring curiosity

(18:10):
and the new wave of newcomers into it. Like me,
for example, what got me into it was the photos
and certain things. So for that to be good for
bringing people in, but also at the same time, it's
a double edged sword. It's bad because you have boots
on the ground, researchers that are out there risking their lives.

Speaker 3 (18:28):
I mean, you know, we'll use Paul for example.

Speaker 4 (18:30):
Paul's hiking, you know, deep in the woods and he's
recording and he's been bluff charged in all this stuff.
But he's doing this just so he doesn't care about fame.
He's not in this for that. He has answers that
he wants and you know, looking into and he goes
out there and he records that, and then he just
presents what he's you know, sharing to you to the
public saying this is what I see.

Speaker 3 (18:50):
You don't see it, cool, move on, but this is
what I see.

Speaker 4 (18:53):
But same time you get these it's bad for it
because you got these photos, these people that are creating
these AI photos, and then you're gonna bring.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
These new people in.

Speaker 4 (19:02):
They're gonna be like, Oh, it's just all just a hoax. Anyways,
Bigfoot's not real, dog Man's not real. That's a werewolf,
that's these things don't exist. And that's really what does
this harm because you might send them a really legit,
you know, encounter, and they're gonna look at it. You're
gonna have no matter what, on both sides. You're gonna
have people that believe it people.

Speaker 3 (19:21):
That don't believe it.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
But I do believe it does harm to the field
of cryptozoology because, like I said earlier, people are gonna
see the photos and they're just gonna be like, yeah,
that's fake. Show me a legit photo. A good friend
of mine, who's a researcher and an author, told me
that Shane, no matter what, you can be deep in
the woods and get the clearest photo of a dog
man holding it a sign saying I am a dog man,

(19:42):
and it could be four k resolution. I mean, you
can see the sunlight sparkle off of its fur and
it'd be the clearest photo ever and post it online
and people are gonna say it's a dude in a costume.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
So regardless what you do, it's a double headsword.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
One hundred percent. And that's the reason why I bring
this question is because since I have not done a
podcast or anything in terms of cryptozoology research, I noticed
it has been a huge technological advantage with not just narrators,
but in terms of paranormal as well in other fields
where people can use this form of art to tell
a story, and it's such a very good tool to

(20:20):
help generate an audience and also help generate a buzz
because the idea of you know, going on the internet
and being an influencer is having a story. And a
lot of people I think are very good at that,
and I'm not gonna lie. I also to have that,
you know, everybody can present a story. Everybody has something,

(20:40):
but there's always a motive behind things, and everybody has
a good everybody has a bad, you know, so what
they use with it, that's on them. I do think
those who use dog Man AI or Bigfoot AI order
any form of crypti or paranormal AI. If they're here
to tell a story, narrated story, you know, kind of
build is useful if they're just there to just simply

(21:03):
say that for that reason, and they're not there just
for the narrative, that make the money. Sure nine times
out of then they're also making money out of it,
because eventually, when the views go up and when you know,
the content gets stale, when you make more views telling
other stuff, it sells now. Dog Man. You know, it's
funny because it's such a hot topic. It's weird because
you know, in the Last Giver takes seven or eight years.

(21:27):
Dog Man has been extensive in the cryptied field. People
talk about it like crazy, and I think it's because
and this is just my opinion, and I would love
to hear yours. I have a feeling it's mostly because
it's the fact that it's a cryptid that is very
strong in terms of storytelling and why eyewitness account. It

(21:48):
has a very interesting background in terms of belief, whether
Native American or supernatural, in terms of another dimension interdimensional,
but the most common ground for it is the fact
that everybody associates associates it with it being like a werewolf.

(22:10):
I wanted to give your overall opinion considering the fact
that you are researching this topic right now, especially what
your opinion is on what the dog man is.

Speaker 4 (22:20):
I like you just stated that the interest and the
phenomenon has grown just over the last eight years, and
I do believe that it's with the content and the
Hollywood aspect of it. I mean, the werewolf things aren't
supposed to exist shape shifting, but the werewolf is the
closest resemblance. So when these people are seeing these things
that they're not that's not supposed to exist, so their

(22:42):
first thing in their head is I just saw a werewolf.
Do I believe there's a lot of misidentifications.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
I do.

Speaker 4 (22:48):
I mean, especially late at night, if you're driving down
a road and you see a hop across the road,
I mean, are you really getting a good image of it?
Or it could have been a sasquats jump. And I
do believe misidentification is another big thing. But obviously everyone
across the United States and the world have actually seen
this thing, and it seems like the sightings have gone up.
But it's not that this is the sightings are going up.

(23:10):
I do believe people are We have more platforms nowadays,
and we're.

Speaker 3 (23:15):
In twenty twenty three.

Speaker 4 (23:15):
I think people are more understanding than accepting compared to
twenty years ago. If I would have told you, hey, Chris,
I think I saw a man wolf or a dog
man or a bipedal wolf, you would have thought, maybe Shane,
you're crazy. But nowadays, and I think with trail blazers
like Linda Godfrey that have really that opened it up
with the Beast of bray Road back in the early

(23:36):
eighties and with her research, and like I said, being
a trailblazer really gotten more people to open up about it.
And same thing like with the UFO and Sasquatch. It's
just it's grown so much that I believe everyone that
was in the Bigfoot not everyone, but people that were,
you know, know so much about Bigfoot UFOs. I think
it also spiked their curiosity that they start looking into

(23:58):
it because there is a lot of more information on
UFOs and Bigfoot. But this thing is it's a new cryptid.
I wouldn't say new cryptid, it's new to the field
as in curiosity, like, oh look these something that's not
supposed to exist.

Speaker 3 (24:10):
Let's look into it.

Speaker 4 (24:12):
But if you're looking really into it and diving back
into the histories, I mean, the Native Americans have been
seeing these things for thousands of years, just like they've
seen the Sasquatch. And that's one thing I really dive
into lately. In the last six months, I've been trying
to find as much research on the Native tribe because
they were here before the settlers were and before we
colonized the United States. Was the real compelling names that

(24:35):
I want to say, It was the Cherokee that had
the name.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
For these creatures.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
It was called the Ulanga do Glala, and just like
they have the ones for the chia Tanka and the Genosquas.
I don't know if those were Cherokee, that might be Algonquin,
but just the names alone were like whoa, they had
names for these things. And the name, you know, dog
or Ulanga do Glala translates to spirit with knife teeth,
and it just say, really got me in curious with that,

(25:00):
and me just I'm just one of thousands of people
that are just curious about this cryptid and just wanting
to know more about it. And I do believe that
it's good to have platforms like yours, Chris, where people
can come on like or just write to you say hey,
I saw an encounter, but also know that they have
that comfort and you're not being ridiculed with what they've seen,

(25:21):
and you know sharing They can also share it anonymously
to like they do with the other platforms, but just
to kind of get it out there and try to
build this. I almost have like a database on encounters
because you know, if it was two people Chris to
say hey, I saw something it would looked like a
wolf on its two legs. I probably would have said, hey,
I don't believe it. But when it's spread across the

(25:43):
United States, it really That's what got me curious was
the everyday people that the truck drivers, the people coming
home late at night, the corn fields, you know, you
see this. It's it's such an interesting topic, Chris. I mean,
like I said, we can just jump down so many
different rabbit holes with it. I just I do believe though,
like you said, in the last eight years, it's that
it's grown in popularity because of its relationship to the

(26:05):
similarities of looking like a were wolf and you know,
the muscular look to it. I mean, something that stands
six to seven feet tall, even eight feet tall, bipedally
with you know, jacked up Arnold Swarzenegger's body looked up, arms,
razor sharp claws like a raccoon hands. You know, something
is standing on its legs and just having the face

(26:25):
of like a German shepherd or a wolf.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
That's terrifying. And like we were talking about earlier, if
you can.

Speaker 4 (26:31):
Monetize something like that and make a creepy pasta story
off of it, I mean, hey, more power to you.
Doesn't do harm to the cryptosology field. Yeah, in a
way it does. But at the same time, it's just
that's so compelling. People are drawn to that. Everyone knows
about sasquatch and bigfoot, and yeah they're terrifying, but they're
not really. There's really few reports of them being dangerous,

(26:51):
but a lot of dogment encounters you do hear it's
they're terrifying. They people, but this creature looking through their
window or you know, bluff them.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
It's it's terrifying.

Speaker 2 (27:03):
I agree with you, and I want to add something
to that too. I want to add I think people
like to be scared because I think there's like a
distraction point right now, especially in our culture. You know,
there's so many different like things that are hard hitting,
whether you know people are watching the news or people
are just waking up and they just go out and
they're just experiencing people being people. And I think one

(27:27):
of the reasons why we get away from when we
go to watch movies or we go to watch TV
is to get us from that reality, get away from reality.
And I think that's why people also tune in to
watch these shows to get away from reality, whether they
want to get to a horror story or they want
to listen to an interview, and I think they like
to be terrified because I remember when I first got

(27:47):
into the dog Man topic, I was younger, and I
was terrified the idea of it because a real life werewolf,
I mean, come on, sounds ludicrous on paper and through
the voice, but you know, people apparently were seeing it.
And that's to me something that really stood out when
people were going on certain shows, whether it was Coast

(28:07):
to Coast or dog Man Encounters or Dark Water Show
or you know, any other real CRYPTI show around in
the early twenty tens where they were producing this content
of people that were coming on talking dog Man or
reciting dog man encounters. But the terrifying aspect angle has
always been something to me that stood out especially, and

(28:27):
I think it's grown rampant thanks to a lot of
technological advances in terms of softwares that we can use
to make more animation. And also that's more easier and
suitable for people to get into compared to all these
multimillion dollar softwares that require educational backgrounds, where you can
just do it from home now, so it's so easy

(28:49):
to do these kind of things. Another is especially the
whole aspect of the dog man itself. You know, it's
a werewolf. You know, people think of our whole horror films,
you know, one of my favorite horror movies of all time,
you know, The Howling for example, and Dog Soldiers and
an American worldf and on that, you know, preferably those three,

(29:09):
and a lot of people encounter dog men are much
like those descriptions. I want to ask you this, though recordly,
there has been said to be at least seven to
nine different types of dogmen, stretching from different Type three variants,
which are close towards bigfoot primate not primate, sorry, close

(29:29):
to bigfoot looking ones or bigfoots looking with snouts, and
then there's a variety of K nine variants which resemble
that werewolf looking but have the K nine attributes in
the snout. So you personally believe that there are nine
variants or do you believe that there are surplus more
of them.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
That's a good question, because I mean, if you look
at the chart, I mean that you say there's nine,
I've seen seven and nine. But I believe a lot
of it's misidentification, And not to say that it doesn't exist,
but one of the things that I believe misidentification is
a big thing and that I look into, not that
I try to say, hey, this is what you saw,
or ever try to tell someone what they've seen, but

(30:08):
really looking at it and then comparing it to the sasquatch,
where who have I believe fourteen different variants that are
throughout the you know, the world that they've recorded. But
I do believe a lot of it is like if
you look at the top three on the most common
dogmit chart, to believe it shows seven and the ones
with a hominid type leg structure, those to me, I

(30:29):
believe are misidentified sasquatch. And even if they have the
muzzle and then they look like a bab boon. To me,
I think those are misidentified Gugway sightings.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
And I don't believe that.

Speaker 4 (30:38):
I know there's not a lot of information on gugways
because they're very territorial and I mean the name literally
means face eater. So if people come across them, which
I do believe they have, they go missing or they're
you know, their their face gets eaten off or you know,
unfortunately that happens, you know, the missing for one ones.
You know, people go missing all the time. But uh,

(30:59):
I do believe. My personal opinion is like Paul Toppy,
he doesn't believe in variants. He believes in breeds. I do.
Just like with certain dog I mean, you don't have it.
A German Shepherd does not look like a weenie dog.
But you know they have very similar characteristics with the snout,
you know, but body type wise, I mean one short,
stubby legs. So I believe there's different breeds of these things.

(31:19):
Another personal opinion is I don't believe this is my
opinion now is on the dog man, I don't believe
they have homined legs structure. I believe they have more
of the digitigrade, the backwards bending me because that, to
me is the most commonly seen.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
And you know, the whole werewolf floor.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
I keep an open mind too, because physically, someone cannot
change their bone structure into turning into a wherewolf looking creatures.

Speaker 3 (31:44):
It's science.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
But then again I keep an open mind to it
because Native Americans believe in the skin walker as a
skin walker is a shaman that does dark magic and
evil things to become a skin walker, and they can
take the form of many different animals, most commonly the
wolf for the coyote. And if something like that a paranormal,
supernatural feel to it, if they can change into that being,

(32:08):
then why can't a were wolf or a human change
into a werewolf on a you know, a full moon.
That's just something I keep an open mind to you.
But when it comes to the dog man and the
variant chart, I believe really there's only four. I mean,
the ones that look like the timber wolf, and then
you know, you got the ones that have the hyena
look to them, and then there's the German shepherd or

(32:29):
the Doberman pincher look. But then I also believe in
the super soldier size because they're obviously larger, you know,
no neck, just broad shoulders. The most almost looks like
the van Helsing were wolf. But of all the encounters,
and you know, I've listened to and read this last
two years roughly, Chris is that's what that comes down
to is the four that look the most common that

(32:51):
you hear about, the hyena looking ones, the German shepherd
looking ones, I mean ones with that boon like face.
I like, I say, I believe those more are like
miss identified sasquatch or Gugway sightings.

Speaker 2 (33:05):
Yeah, I'm with you on that, man. You know, there's
a lot of different kind of misinterpretation when it comes
to the different variants, and I think in recent years
it's gotten worse because of the storytelling, because the way
that stories go, they try to describe these things as
literal monsters. So people is automatically interpret that the K
nine variants are these monsters that are going to rip
you the shreds, and they could. But then you bring

(33:26):
up the Gugwie, and I want to talk to you
about that real quick because it's a very harsh topic
as well. Because the Gugwie, while there is discussion on
it and there are resources for it. It's not like
it dogmen or bigfoot, where there's a variety where we
have enough to say this and that. And that's also
due to the fact that there's not enough researchers really
touching base on it, because they try to associate it

(33:47):
with bigfoot in camps, and the same goes for dog
man in the camps as well. They try to put
it in that range because there is real no proper identification,
I think, so they try to kind of form some
identification and say it's this, but it's really belonging to
that camp. So and so there is an infamous photograph.
And we'll get back to the variance in just a

(34:07):
bit because it does apply to another question I want
to ask later. But going into the Gugwy real quick,
because I do have an opinion on the photograph, because
I do think it's not a dog man. I think
it's a gugwy, and I figure I ask you this question.
There's a photo called the Beast of Seven Shoots. Now,

(34:27):
this photograph was shot in Canada. It was in Quebec.
I believe it was in early two thousands. A gentleman
was in a park and he was shooting a variety
of photographs, and one of the photographs he shot apparently
caught a mysterious creature. Now, originally that photograph wasn't that photograph.
The photo itself is blown up, but the original photograph

(34:51):
was actually shot and taken on the lower right hand
side of where he was at. So the photograph depicts
this mysterious creature and it's obviously looking like it's looking
at the cameraman. But the thing is is that it
looks like it's holding something. Now, my question to you
is have you seen that photograph?

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Yes, I sure have, and you hit it, you know,
hammer on the nail right there, Chris is the guy
was taking photographs of just the scenery.

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I think it was a waterfall.

Speaker 4 (35:22):
And in the bottom of my hand corner, you see
what looks like you know, it's obviously not a flower.
I've heard people say, oh, it's it's a plant. No,
that clearly has definition to it because it's holding something
and it's what what it could be. It could be
a small dog. I honestly think it's a fawn. It's
holding a baby deer in its hand like you caught me,

(35:42):
Like it was, you know, getting ready to eat and
you know it got blindsided with someone noticing that someone
took a photo. I do believe cryptids in general could
pick up you know, infrared like they say, dog man,
Bigfoot that avoid the trail cams. I mean, because you
know the infrared. I do believe that was during the
day and he was just about the creature was just

(36:03):
mosying about its own day and got caught. And that's
the only legit photo, in my personal opinion, that I've
ever seen of a Gugway. Other than that, it's just
illustrations of these terrifying ape looking creatures, you know, eating
a bear or ripping it, you know, a creature apart
because they are territorial.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Very territorial. And I agree you actually your analogy and
analysis under this, not a ner analysis on this was
very spot on. When it comes to the Beast of
Seven shoots, there was a story. There's a Over the years,
there's been some different variants of the story. I know
the gentleman returned to the site a couple of weeks

(36:43):
later with his girlfriend, and there is a huge high
difference because he shot the same photograph in the same
distance and where she was or I think he was.
I don't know either or And there was a huge
high difference because the claim was the high difference when
he looks at the photograph, cause he looked at the photos, see,
he didn't notice that creature was in the photo at
all until he got home and looked, and he noticed

(37:06):
it afterwards. It was in the post visitation, so when
he looked at it, he noticed it. So when he
returned to the site, he was able to try to
get a height difference, so I interpret so noticing the
height had to have been at least more than six
feet because the height difference on the photograph of him
versus the photograph of the actual Gugwi, it's a big difference.

(37:30):
But the thing about it too is is that prior
to the incident, apparently you mentioned that you said it
had like a fawn, like a fawn. Everybody used to
say it was like a pig, or it was like
a dog. But I remember there was that story going
around of somebody saying that there was a tour guy
going around and the area just around the same time

(37:51):
and that apparently a creature somebody there was a couple
people with a dog. Creature came out of nowhere. The
dog was just kind of walking around the site, and
then while the tour was on one end, the dog
was walking on the other end, and then the creature
came up and swooped the dog and took it out
into the field. That's when I guess somebody screamed monster,

(38:11):
monster or something like that. But they make a long
story short. That was one story I heard. Another was that,
like you said, this creature had taken a fawn and
basically had been in a little spot far away from
actual people in the area. And then this one particular

(38:32):
person snapping the photographs he caught just in sight. I
tell people make your pick on what's true and what's
not true. But it's just say, a very interesting case.
The Besa Seven Shoots has always been one of the
one of most weirdest photographs. I've always believed to have
been a gugway Now you mentioned about the whole illustrations
of like I'm looking like terrifying apes and stuff. I

(38:55):
remember that there was a thing going around with these
things looking like a face eater, right, And I wanted
to just pinpoint this is that there's a few things
about the gug Wee that I think not many, including
myself are not too familiar with. And that's just the
idea that they're like an aggressive bit. They're a very
timid wild rogue bigfoot one that will do serious damage.

(39:17):
We talked about missing four to one a little while ago,
but when I look at a lot of these bigfoot
in dog man cases, I've always noticed that there's a
familiar pattern where when these things are spotted, they give
the person the chance to escape and it works. And
I use the word escape because in their territory, you know,
it's their territory. And we actually touch base on this

(39:39):
on Saturday about territorial things preferably for example, you know
if someone stranger came to our house and did so
and so, and you know how we'd feel about it.
So to counter strike that and go further, I wanted
to talk about how the idea of these things retaliating
because of territorial aspects. Do you think a lot of

(40:01):
missing fall on one cases are responsible to that of dogmen,
bigfoot or gug wey due to the fact of territorial
or do you think it's something about the human being
that they had done in the initiative, They just thread
the wrong place at the wrong time. And this is
just overall hypothetical. It's not to say that bigfoots and
these cryptids are responsible for this missing fall in one case,

(40:23):
it's just like a what.

Speaker 4 (40:24):
If Yeah, And like you said, it's just it's what
ifs if it was but bigfoot, Gugway or dogmen. You
really hit the hammer on the nail game right there, Chris.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Is is the thing is, these things give you a chance.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
If you've looked at a lot of it, these encounters,
people are you know, sitting there and they see the
thing and it starts chasing them. But if it really
wanted to, it would have killed the person right then
and there. And I do believe it does happen every
so often. I mean, people do push their luck. We're
human beings, we're curious creatures. We want to see how
far we can go. But these things will give you
a warning. I mean, for an example, real quick side note,

(41:00):
Paul Schaeffin was out investigating and literally got out of
his car not even twenty minutes hiking in he got
bluff charged and that was his signal.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
To turn around, get out of there.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
And he got hit with in for sound and bluff
charged and he was just like, Okay, today's not the day.
And the thing was telling him you're getting too close.
And like we talked about on Saturday, dog men obviously
know when we're there, way before we even even think
that they're there or being watched. They're observing us. But
when we get to a certain spot, they're gonna let

(41:31):
us know, whether it's a tree snap or you know,
a bigfoot smacking a tree knocks or doing a whoop,
you know, or whooping and doing what they have to
because letting the other ones know, hey, he's this person
or these individuals are infringing on our area.

Speaker 3 (41:47):
We need to do something. That's what they give you
the opportunity.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
It's like, hey, you come any closer, we're gonna you're
gonna be dinner, or you.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
Need a h tel out of there.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
And it seems like nine out of ten times people
hi tail out of there. But you get those some
that you know, I do believe that do you become
four one ones that hike in a little farther or
the creature might be not that it's just that it's
a territorial thing, but it can also be a hunger
thing too, that hey, this looks like an easy meal,
like a gugway, I'll pick them off and they'll go missing. Now,
all missing for one ones I don't believe are cryptid related.

(42:17):
I do believe some people, you know, you gotta think
the elements, the hypothermia, the and you know, in the
supernatural aspect, I do believe, you know, not to go
back to UFOs, but UFOs and portals, I mean, I
think do believe people do go get abducted. I believe
the whole Eisenhower treaty where he signed off on so
many people being abducted for you know, technological advances, I

(42:41):
do believe that does happen still to this day. And
you know, I do believe people if you match up
the missing for one one with the underground cave system,
that matches up too. So if you want to go
to the cryptid route on that cryptids, if they are
blood flesh and blood, obviously they're living somewhere in the
National Force, they're living in caves, live in underground, or
they're in dens or huts.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
And if they do live in the underground, I mean,
it's not.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
A coincidence that the missing for one ones all matchup
with the underground cave system, so in the national parks too.
It's just that's what another thing that gets me. So
I do believe it can be territorial. But like you said, Chris,
they will give you a fair warning and give you
multiple warnings, I believe, and the certain key signs to
look out for. I mean, if you're a new person

(43:27):
going out into the woods is listen to your surroundings.
Look around. I mean, if you notice the woods are
deathly silent. Obviously it's not saying it's dog man a bigfoot,
but there is an apex predator in there. It could
be a bear, it could be a mountain lion. The
birds aren't chirping, and the crickets aren't cricking. I mean,
that's your first sign. But you start hearing when you

(43:47):
start hitting hit with the infrasound, or start feeling sick,
or just you start hearing sounds around you. I mean,
if they're circling you, obviously there's more than one. So
that's just I guess you could say, almost human instinct.
Just to really listen to your gut feeling. Like if
you get that gut feeling said, hey, it's time to leave,
your best chance, you best bet probably get out of there,

(44:09):
you know. So I do believe that these things give
you a fair warning, and you know, if you don't
you test your luck, you're gonna end up on their platter.
So and unfortunately, I do believe that's happened. And not
so much with the Gugway because we don't have a
whole lot of evidence or you know, facts on the Gugway,
But with Sasquatch, I mean people, there's multiple cameras where

(44:29):
people have been carried off or if they're sleeping in
the area, you know, in the middle of the night
being carried off or dog men. You know, the attack
with the LBL for example, we'll just throw that out there.
I mean, people probably infringe way to it close and
ended up you know, unfortunately dead.

Speaker 2 (44:47):
Yeah, no, I'm with you on that. And you know,
go back real quick to Gugy before we transition into
to a new topic. You ever see the movie Congo, Yes,
so you know there's a movie for those who aren't familiar,
it's a movie about a bunch of researchers who are
studying this highly intelligent ape from a different continent that

(45:11):
after signal goes out, you know, they find that this
frigging ape has been so hyper sensed with so many
different chromosomes of intelligence. It's basically like planning the apes,
but with just Caesar and literally it's a very good movie.
I think it's underrated. But what I think of I
think of Congo immediately, And there's also a few other

(45:32):
movies from back in the seventies about Congo and the
whole idea of that legendary ape, and you know, I
think of a Guglie immediately from that nature. I don't
know how you think about that, Shane. I mean, it's
just my comparison sometimes is just thinking about the whole
idea of Congo, and I'm not thinking that. For those
out there might be a little confused, I'm nothing to
King Kong. I'm thinking of Congo, and I'll throw some

(45:53):
links down there for people to check out. It's actually
very interesting. It's a very good movie too. But the
dog Man, something you brought up was LBL, and I
know where people are automatically gonna think I'm gonna go
with this, so I'm just gonna go ahead and just
spill the beans automatically for you. LBL to me has
had a very serious controversy in recent years more so

(46:16):
than in the past. I think it was already a
controversial topic, but I think in recent years it's gotten
worse due to, of course, certain events which I won't
go into. But overall, though, when we look at the
backstory of LBL, Shane, I want to ask you two
specific questions. The first question I'll have I'll ask is this,
when you look at the case and when you hear

(46:38):
about what happened, is this no surprise of something territorial
or something more so, of some unknown incident that we
really don't have an initial answer on.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
Preferably Well, yeah, that's the thing, Like you said, Chris,
I mean, we really don't have answers to it did happen.
My personal opinion is it was a you know, territorial thing,
and it could it have been a couple of different
key factors. I've heard that the possibilities it's all theory based,
but it could have been mating season, it could have

(47:16):
been feeding time, because it did happen obviously towards you know, dusk.
So then I've also heard the you know, I think
that you've probably heard this one as well. Is the
perfumes and the pheromones from the cologne and the perfume.
I believe that the gentleman and the lady was wearing.
I mean to say that any of those could play

(47:36):
the factor. My personal opinion was I believe it was territorial,
and I think it was during.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
You know, I almost want to say it was two things.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
I believe it was territorial, and it was during its
hunting time and it just happened to be. And I
don't believe there was this one. I believe there was
two dog men in this whole incident. I know that
might throw a wrench in someone's tire, but I'm just
sitting there. From what I've seen and what I've read,
it's just it doesn't seem like it one just did
all that. Do I believe one could do all that, Yes,
But I believe it dog made my personal opinion, or

(48:07):
like wolves, they travel in a pack and they work
as a team. Maybe there's not five or six or
ten of them, but I believe that there's at least
two to three two for this particular matter that attacked
the father and you know, the wife and the daughter
and the young boy. So I do believe it was
a territorial thing. On it, and I do believe it
was a you know, during a feeding time.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, no, that's very good at take on it. I
personally do think that the perfume incident was a huge one.
I think that one has a huge factor in terms.
But you know, when people wear perfume or any form
of fragrance and they're out in the woods attracts bugs,
you know, odors as well. Foul odors certain animals do
not like because those odors, their chemical insights in their

(48:56):
nostrils will result in a form of negative foul odors
wise or imbalances. If you know, certain animals respond to
reactions of how people look, why would it be no different?
I mean, no surprise they react to a foul odor.
You know, us as human beings, we respond to a
very foul odor. While we don't retaliate towards that, you know,
we investigate at best, but you know, it's just a

(49:20):
similar instinct. My second question is in reference to the
overall post discovery, because there's so many different variations of
the story and even in following there's been so many
different variations of further LBL cases. Do you believe any
of that? Do you think there's any authenticity to any
of this at all, or do you think that there

(49:42):
originally was a case of this happening but has been
fabricated over the years into different twists and turns.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
You know, you really hit a good question on that.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
I do believe a lot of it over the years,
it's been fabricated for interests and to build popularity and
click material. I do believe that there was a case
that actually did happen. I do believe a family was
murdered there. But like you know, I really can find
in Paul Schaffing a lot and Paul just believes it
never happened. He just believes that it's just you know,

(50:13):
I mean, two different guys with two different researchers' opinions.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
I believe it happened.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
He believes that it's just clickbait had to get draw
interest into the field. So, you know, I do believe,
like we've said, we're not going to jump into the
different you know, stories of what we've heard. I do
believe Jan Thompson's version of it the best. And I
mean not to name another individual, I just there's so
many different wrenches that have been thrown into this story

(50:38):
that it's just like it's it's really it's up to
the person listening to the encounter happened for them to
really decide. Like I said, I keep an open mind
to hey, I might be wrong on what my viewpoint is,
but I do believe my personal opinion, I do believe
a family was murdered there, and I believe it was
December or November of nineteen eighty two when it happened.
So most sightings, if you look at certain research projects,

(51:02):
you know what they've collaborated. Most of the time the
hunting seasons, your most common sightings are. I believe it's
in the spring, in the fall, so I mean, really
it's not winter till what December twentieth twenty first, so
I mean it still falls in that fall category. So
maybe I do. Like I say, I do believe it
does happened. In my own personal opinion, I do believe

(51:23):
that the family was murdered, but there's a lot of
cover up to it.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
I'm with you on that, and I agree, I personally
think that there was a conspiracy behind it. You know,
we talked a little bit about that behind the scenes,
and I won't go any further to that because I
don't think it's necessary because it's already been established in
a lot of other shows about that. I will say this, though,
that incident did put that place on the map. People

(51:51):
in that area are aware of everything. I just think
that they just know the publicity is bad bliss for them.
I just don't want it. But at the same time, too,
I don't see it as a bad thing because if
they're able to at least acknowledge the truth behind it,
then they know that it's gonna draw interest. But then
I also see it too as bad for the business

(52:12):
because people are unstable, you know. Man, imagine if and
I think this is a bit more of a question
I want to ask you later because I do have
another question about this kind of stuff in reference to
other nature. But you know, if one day, like you
know right now, going on the government secretly is one
by one, well not secretly, not that word, but as

(52:34):
time goes on, one by one, we're getting declassification on UFOs, right,
So you think with the declassification of cryptids, that would
actually cause a heavy uprising within the country because of
the believability that these things exist. It's not like it's Hogzilla,
it's not like it's a bear. You know, these are

(52:55):
things that are bigger than bear. These things are stronger
than bears.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
Yeah, no, I agree, And I think, like what you
were saying earlier is I believe that the disclosure. Like
with UFOs, we've got notable names in the field, whether
people agree with him or disagree with him, like George Knapp,
Bob Blazaaru, doctor Stephen Greer. I mean, there's just to
name a few people that have really been looking into

(53:22):
this stuff, dog Man and Sasquatch. Sasquatch has a lot
of big names that are out there that cover it,
from you know Ron Moorehead to m K. Davis to
Melbourne catch him. Uh, just to name a few sasquatch
you know researchers and but I you know, the Dogman
field I believe is still in his infancy. And really,
like we were talking about earlier in the interview, it's

(53:44):
only really been it's taken off. I mean, yeah, you know,
Linda Gonoughfree was a trailblazer in this field, you know,
forty years ago.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
But really I.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
Think, like we were talking about on Saturday, since she's
you know, unfortunately passed on, it kind of left us
in a gray area I mean, who's gonna pick up
the mantle and you know, take that rein not to
be the face of this cryptid but someone that is
a trailblazer and someone that is highly respected in this field.
We have a lot of big names that people listen
to on podcasts and stuff like that, but we almost

(54:14):
need that person that you know, dedicated their life to it,
like Linda did. She you know, the criticism she got,
She's kept going forward with it. She's like, there's people
seeing this thing up in Wisconsin. There's something there with it.
And I believe, give it fifteen years from now, and
I believe it'll be just as mainstream or you know,
as much knowledge on this creature and maybe we will

(54:34):
get photographic evidence or some type of footage on it.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Because right now, my.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Personal opinion, Chris, is that we are at a concrete
wall because you've got people that are going out taking
photos and you know, sharing it. But you're gonna, no
matter what in this cryptid community, you're gonna get ridicule
in the eight from you know.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
The nonsayers and the disbelievers.

Speaker 4 (54:55):
But to this day, with the Patterson Gimlin film, no
one can you know, you're gonna have that. They still
people saying, hey, that's not real with the dude in
a suit. But I mean with technology from the sixties
to now, we've photo enhanced it and it clearly a
human in a suit cannot walk like that. My personal
opinion is once we get that, you know, five second,

(55:15):
eight second, ten second footage of a dog man running
across the cemetery or across the road, and we can
break it down and it's somewhat clear. I just believe
we're at a stalemate with it right now, and you know,
until we can get that person or to come forward
or show their evidence, we're at just a concrete wall
with that.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
But with technology the way it.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
Is, I do believe we will get down that road
sooner than later.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
I agree. And the science, like I said earlier, with
the technology advancing every day, I mean, there'd be a
matter of time before we do get that breakthrough commercially
and the less and less potato imagery we can make depixelate.
But I also wanted to say this too, because this
applied earlier to LBL. I'm sure you're familiar with the

(56:02):
infamous case of Timothy Treadwell.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Actually no, I haven't heard that one is that the
bow hunter.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
No no, no, no no, So it's actually totally a separate
case from anything cryptid.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
This guy was a bear enthusiast and he would travel
into the Alaskan National Park, one of the parks up
close towards the Canadian border, like somewhere literally on the outskirts.
It's very beautiful region. It's a park, but that region
is filled with so many bears, like literally like their bears,

(56:35):
the grizzly bears and whatnot, and Kodiak bears, and they're
just like these giant monsters. And like in two thousand
and three, this is literally twenty years ago. In two
thousand and three, he actually went out with his girlfriend
and he stated extra few days behind that schedule because
he wanted to get additional footage and some other things.
But it was past the season where it was like

(56:56):
mating season. It was also hibernation season where the were
trying to stalk up on food, but the salmon. They
weren't getting enough salmon, so a lot of these older
bears were having trouble. So to make a long story short,
tread Well and his girlfriend were like about a day
before leaving. They were just out and about and there
was this one bear that was tagging them along, and

(57:18):
then this bear they actually shot footage of, or at
least they believe was the footage of the bear, because
some of the bears were struggling to get the salmon
they shot footage of, and one of the bears was
literally eyeball on them the whole time. Afterwards, the bear
attacked Treadwell and started eating him, and it's clawing him

(57:38):
at his scalp while his girlfriend was in the tent
and as he was saying to have her fight, she
was telling him to fight back, and then some other crap,
and then he was just dying and then the bear
dragged him and took him and then killed him. And
then the bear believed he killed her, attacked her and
killed her. And then their plain guy arrived the crime

(58:00):
scene and they just saw his blood everywhere and the
bear was moping around, and that's when they looked further
with the hunters and the game wardens, and they had seen,
you know, the bear they killed. Just testings opened up
the human remains and all this other mangled bodies, parts
and stuff. It was a real tragic case. And that
was all stemmed due to a territorial dispatch due to

(58:23):
the fact that this bear, this guy was so close
to these bears and he was at the worst case,
at the worst time because of the season. These bears
didn't want nothing to do with nobody because they had
no food, nothing whatsoever. They were struggling. They were basically
bears that were middle aged and broke literally. So it's
a very wild case. And I bring it up because

(58:45):
I feel with LBL there was a very territorial dispute
with this creature that killed this family and it definitely
wasn't over food resources because it was in the summer.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
Oh, so it did happen in the summer, It wasn't
in December.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
I do believe. I mean, it could have happened in
December or in the fall fall in winter, but I'm
personally convinced that it may have been the summer because
I do remember in the original testimony to Jane Thompson testimony,
like well, there wasn't a specific date of it. It
was the fact that they didn't mention anything about any
like coats or any like snow on the ground, or

(59:22):
any like leaves blowing or anything too timid towards autumn
or fall wind or like weather. Now, maybe that's just
me analyzing a little too deep than I should on it,
because maybe I could be wrong. But I've never suspected
it to be taken in that time period when I
originally first got into the story. Yes, but that, like
I said, that was the very beginning. My opinion has

(59:43):
changed drastically over time. But going back to the Treadwell case,
you know, there's a documentary you should watch. It's I
don't know if it's free on YouTube. Still it's called
Grizzly Man, and that's documentary with Treadwell. But you'lls there's
audio leaked. But see the thing about his death though,
was while he spent time in the twelve years in

(01:00:07):
this wilderness, he was filming all this stuff. He had
so much footage. However, when his death happened, there was
footage of it like it was recorded. But the thing
is that the cap on the camera was on, so
you didn't get to see the factual mayor kill him
or the ten You just heard the audio of it.

(01:00:28):
The audio has never been heard in public, never been shared.
Anything on the internet about it is fake. But I
bring it up because it's very similar happening, and I
compare it to that because I'm thinking to myself, what
if this was a dog man or bigfoot that was
in this territory, this family intruded it or something about

(01:00:48):
it in the rough season, and unfortunately it just killed
him and it was just the wrong place at the
wrong time. So it's a little food for thought. Man,
I wanted to peck your brain at that, but treadwell case. Man,
it's a very interesting one and I highly recommend you
look into it if you're interested in it, because it
does apply to the whole thing about how bear attacks

(01:01:09):
apply in crypto cryptid situations, people being found or you know,
cryptids and bears similarity in terms of demographics. But yeah, no,
a couple things to touch base on afterwards with that,
because I wanted to you said something about being in

(01:01:31):
the territory or at least in the round ranges you
know of like Bluff Creek for example. I want to
talk a little bit about bigfoot. So for me, Bigfoot,
I think, like everybody is like the beginning cryptid because
it's the most common cryptid. Everybody associates cryptoioology. We think
of bigfoot in your opinion, what do you think is

(01:01:53):
the most convincing bigfoot footage out there? You have the
Patty film, there's the Freeman footage, the Memorial Day footage
in ninety six, the Memorial Day footage of twenty thirteen.
There's so many different kinds of footages out there that
have been coming forward, and it's possible. I mean, you
could tell that there's some where there's a guy in
nave costume, but there I was like the Patterson Gilman
film for example, and then of course the Freeman footage

(01:02:15):
that have always stood out to me. But in your opinion,
what do you think is the most realistic footage out there?
And why?

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
You know?

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
Just like you named off of all those, I've seen
all those me personally, I do believe the Patterson Gimlin
film is the most compelling. But the one I was
sent from a good buddy of mine, Jeremiah Fountain, out
of New York. He shared with me a video and
I'll describe the video. I promised him I wouldn't share it.
But there's an aerial footage of this thing and they're

(01:02:45):
using night vision. I don't know if it's nightcau. There's
in black and white. So but you could see the
subject in the film, and it's in these thick trees
and you watch this thing. It's literally clearing you know,
ground as it's a truck through the woods and it
knows it's being watched, but it's trying to get out
of the helicopter's view and this thing's just recording it

(01:03:05):
and you see it just where it would take him
in four steps. It's literally stepping that in one step,
and it's just clearing ground. Into me, I was like, okay,
I'm blown. I know there is Bigfoot out there. I mean,
I live in California and when we see all these
cars driving around, they have bumper stickers and little sasquatch,
you know, silhouettes that says believe. It's like, hey, man,

(01:03:27):
I believe there's more believers in the Bigfoot than there
is dogmen. But I just think time will tell with
dog men that you know, I drive around on my
truck with a dog Man sticker and it's just like, yeah,
I'm the crazy guy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
You know, I believe in dog Man.

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
But hey, if you I see these people with the Sasquatch,
it's just I want to ask him, do you believe
But to get back to the footage though, I'd believe
Patterson Gimlin film uh and the one my buddy Jeremiah
sent me. I believe those two alone are the most
compelling that made me say, hey, there is Bigfoot. And
then Ron Moorehead's recording in nineteen seventy two here in

(01:03:59):
cal California, the Sierra sounds where they're talking and you know,
samurai chatter is what it sounds like. It's just that
to me was compelling, like whoa, You've got actual audio,
you know, vocalization on these things. It's I mean to
say that Bigfoot isn't real. I just tell people, you know,
you just need to be open minded and not be
closed minded. That's because there's I believe people don't are

(01:04:21):
more closed minded on this stuff is because they the
terrifying aspect of knowing that there is eight to nine
foot sasquatch out in the woods when they go camping.
But just like with dogmen, I believe the government, you know,
keeps it so declassified and are so covered up and classified.
Is the fact that it all comes down to money.

(01:04:43):
If I told you, hey, Chris, where you're living, you know,
in the northeast. There's dogmen out in the pine barrens,
you know, and you don't go camping with your family
and not just say you, but hundreds of families. Well
that's going to drop revenue real quick. So I believe
that his government cover up on that aspect to where

(01:05:03):
it's like, hey, that these things aren't real.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
You know, people like the enjoy. They want you to
enjoy the.

Speaker 4 (01:05:08):
Outdoors, and hey, you know the watch out for bears,
watch out for wolves, watch out for mountain lines. There's
no one telling you, hey, watch out for sasquatch a
dog man. But to go back to the footage, I'm
sorry I got off topic, but I'm just saying it's
just the most compelling footage to me is hands down
Patterson Gimu on film.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
Uh yeah, no, one hundred percent. I'll be honest with you. You know,
the thing about me with the Patterson Gilman film is
it's the most common film. But you know, there's so
many different takes on it, and over the years, so
many people have tried to disapprove of it and then
say it's approved, and then disapprove again, and now it's approved,
you know, and it's like you analyze the footage. I

(01:05:52):
see something moving in the far distance, but it doesn't
move like a human. It moves abnormal and normal human
being when it walk that distance a certain way. And
I figure, I ask you this, do you think in
the Patterson Gimma film you think it's a female or
do you think it's a male? A lot of people
assume it's a female.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
Yes, with the photo enhancements MK Davis just recently, I
think he collaborated with another researcher, but they really I
think they used four K technology to really clear up
the footage and you can see what looks like, you know,
breasts on the Patty I guess it's her nickname is Patty.
You see the breasts on her. You see the buttocks,

(01:06:32):
I mean, you see the muscle definition.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
And with technology nowadays, I don't think you can get
any clear footage. I mean, they even did a still
shot of her face and you can literally when they
enhance the photo, can almost see what looked like eyelashes.
I don't know if that was added, but it looks
very feminine in the footage. I mean, it looks almost
like a female gorilla. But you know with female attributes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
And you know what you just said something that really
have always associated with the pattern and Gilma film, and
it said, it just reminds me of a female gorilla,
you know, it's the regular, uh, young gorilla. And it's
mostly in the definition of the body tone, you know,
the upper body. It just looks so much like a primate.
And when I when the original footage, when you first
see it, it was so decolorized for quality due to

(01:07:19):
the amount due to the software at the time, but
the restoration you could see even the colorization on the
trees from the background. I mean you could see so
many like everything. The definition the four K resolution really
shows so much. And in one of the things it
shows is, of course, as you just mentioned, you know,

(01:07:40):
the definition of the body, of the muscular body, the buttocks,
the breast, and I think in my mind and I've
always thought that it was a female, mostly because this
bigfoot just ignored Patterson and Gilman and in so many
different ways. I mean, male bigfoots often ignore people too,
but normally a lot of juvenile bigots, mostly males, will

(01:08:01):
taunt human beings, whether they do the rock thing or
they do the mimickings or the vocalizations in the woods. Right,
So I think that because this is a female Bigfoot,
you know, they just she kind of just left and be.
And the fact is is that I think, you know,
at the same time she was at a far distance.
She I do think she was part of a colony

(01:08:22):
of bigfoots that that were locally nearby, and I think
that it was well established. Because this leads into a
much more controversial question. Since you had discussed the Bluff
Creek you discussed the being the film the most un
notable and popular for you, in your opinion, to be

(01:08:43):
the best. Have you been familiar with the Bluff Creek massacre?

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
No, actually, I have never heard of that.

Speaker 4 (01:08:50):
I mean, like I said, I dive in this ass
quatch as much as I can, but my main attention
has been on the dog Man phenomenon, so I'm not
aware of the Bluff Creek massacre.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
So a while back MK actually did something too about this,
about the Bluff Creek massacre and basically talked about how,
like I guess, Patterson and Gilwen were killing bigfoots and
stuff like that, and there was apparently footage of one
bigfoot getting shot one was crying for mercy, And I

(01:09:22):
don't really know the full details other than that, I
haven't really focused or cared too much for the topic
because I've had my skepticism about it. But there was
this big thing for a while about this with him
and with MK and Bob Gimlin, where it was like, oh,
we stand with Bob, because I guess there were allegations

(01:09:43):
that MK was saying or I think it was MK
or someone else was saying that, not to put his
name in a bad way, it's just, you know, it's
what I thought he was from, or at least I
originally heard it from. Was apparently Gimlin was killing these
bigfoots and MK was just trying to bring the real
truth though about Bluff Creek, and it's very controversial. I

(01:10:09):
personally don't believe it, but I wouldn't be too surprised
if there were a group of people try that tried
to go ahead and go ahead and do this and
execute that. But I do believe that Patty is a female.

(01:10:30):
I do believe that she possibly was not too far
nearby from a colony of her own. But at the
same time, too, I don't buy into that whole conspiracy
about the Bluff Creek massacre. And it's not trying to
throw shade at MK or anybody who's throwing that allegation
out there, or to say we signed with Bob. It's
the facts that it's a case that why would it

(01:10:53):
come out now versus why wasn't that addressed when this
was in the peak of the Patterson given the film
being discussed, you know, like, why wasn't it being that
topic then? To counter strike the believability behind the idea
of the Patterson Kimlin film. That's like saying Paul Freeman,
you know, went after he's shot the footage of the
bigfoots and went back to his truck to go and

(01:11:14):
killed them because he found to be an external threat,
you know, like it just it makes no sense on paper.
But I figured I pecked your brain at that. I'm
surprised you never heard about that because that's been a
very big hot topic recently. And MK, I did that too,
I believe.

Speaker 4 (01:11:29):
Oh okay, yeah, see, I wasn't really, like I said,
I really don't dive too much into this asquatch just
because that's so commonly known, especially here in California. I mean,
that's just out here in the West. Bigfoot, yes, I
do believe is the most seen cryptid no matter what,
and the footage is out there, people still kind of well,
you got the open minded and the closed minded that

(01:11:50):
will dispute saying Bigfoot doesn't exist. But I would say
a good majority of the population believe that there's a
humanoid creature out in these woods. But yeah, I wasn't
aware of the Bluff Creek massacre. I just remember, uh,
just the whole looking into it the Patterson Gimlin film
was they were, you know, riding on horseback, which I

(01:12:10):
believe was more to their advantage because when you're running
up on a truck or a vehicle back in the sixties,
I mean, they were probably a lot louder than they
are now. We've got electric cars that are silent. You
can't even hear them Tesla driving by.

Speaker 3 (01:12:24):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:12:24):
But I believe that they, you know, were on the
horseback and they that's what stumped the I believe Patty
is when she maybe heard their hoofs clacking, and you know,
from a distance, you don't hear you know, horse clack.
As being a horse owner myself, I mean, unless you're
you know, within hearing range of and they have shoes,
but if they're on a trail and they're not, they

(01:12:45):
have no shoes. And you know, I know it was
real gravelly in the area kind of looking at like
Google imagery of where it kind of happened. I mean,
it's still disputed where exactly it happened. Obviously it was
in Bluff Creek, but the exact area. I just know
that they were, you know, deep in the woods and
it was just it was Gimblin and Patterson on horseback
and one of them happened to just have a recording device,

(01:13:07):
I mean eight millimeter camera.

Speaker 3 (01:13:09):
I believe to that, you know.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
Is the best way to get footage if these things,
if you go down a different rabbit holes with dogmen
and sasquatches. A lot of theories out there that they
can manipulate the electromagnetic field around them, so why you know,
certain electronics don't work or they have a full battery
and they die. But as they were filming, I believe
that it's when they got it out of the saddle bag,

(01:13:31):
it started recording it. I believe that's what stumped stumped Patty.
She looked back and was just oh, shoot, there's humans.
Let me get out of the area. And like you said,
I do believe these things are you know, colonies. I
know of a buddy that told me a friend of
his who's a park ranger out here and there's four
of them, that their job is to watch these there's
four colonies, actually I think it's three, and they congregate

(01:13:55):
twice a year here in California and their job is
to just observe them. And I ask him, like, do
you know the location? He's like, no, the park rangers
will not tell us where these things, you know, meet up.
And that was what really blew my mind. I was like, wow, okay,
so obviously right there shows you that these things do
travel in packs or in colonies.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
You know that.

Speaker 4 (01:14:17):
Obviously, Like with the males, ask watch and the females
and like, yeah, you reiterated earlier the stone throwing and stuff.
I believe that's the males being you know, almost like
the human instincts. It's like, when what if you take
us back in the day men were the hunter gatherers.
We were out, you know, going and you know, trying
to provide, you know, bring food home, while the women

(01:14:38):
and children stayed close by to the camp. So I
do believe that there is some humanistic resemblance and that
aspects with these things, they do travel in colonies.

Speaker 2 (01:14:52):
Yeah, no, I'm with you on that too, And I
also have to say that that goes the same for
me for dog men and working packs. The thing about
all these cryptids is that they have a very mysterious
display of presentation and it's something that we are still
trying as humans to discover. So going forth with that,
I think we can easily say with bigfoots, it's pretty

(01:15:12):
common that they have a very ominous presence as much
as so a certain nature of characteristics and skills they
present to that human being that they encounter. Going back
to dogmen, though, especially because it's more of your uprising
in terms of research, there's always been and I know
it's been talked about Linda Godfrey she said it was

(01:15:34):
a hoax. I know a few others have said it
was a hoax who were on site. But you know,
Michigan has always had a history of weird things, whether UFOs,
bigfoot dogmen, but the dog man, Michigan dog man is
the most topic of tops in the Upper Peninsula. So
for the longest time, there was this footage called the
Gable Film and the Gable Film. Even though it's been

(01:15:56):
revealed to be a hoax after so many years, people
believe there was validity to it, that an actual case
like that happened in which there was real footage, and
then it was never declassified due to the fact of
it being an actual, unknown crypted attack. Are you familiar
with this footage and do you have your own opinion
on it?

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
Yes, and you just covered everything. I personally believe I
do believe there's cover up to it. I know Monster
Quest did a topic on it. They interviewed the gentleman
and he said it was a hoax. But just looking
at it, Frankton by frame, I just don't see how
a human being in a gilly suit can move like that.

(01:16:34):
And there's been reports of dogmen how they zigzag so
like say a hunter or something, We're to try to
fire on this thing and shoot it straight that I've
heard encounters. I don't know if they're real, but they
sound pretty legit to me. When they get a fire
on these things, these things run at a zigzag formation
to try to avoid it. And you see how the

(01:16:54):
subject in the film moves, and when he re enacted
it on Monster Quests, it wasn't the same. He was
more looked like a human, looking like an ape how
they run with, you know, kind of squatted down. But
that's how it looked to me on the reenactment. But
looking at the film, the subject didn't move like that.

Speaker 3 (01:17:15):
It. Like I say, I keep an open mind to it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:18):
But I believe there's a lot of cover up to that,
and I almost believe that that's the footage like what
we have with Patterson Gimlin, I do believe we have
for the dog Man community. But it was to me,
maybe just like with Paison Gimlin, it was such compelling
evidence that they had to say here and a half
people say oh, it was fake, and then hire a
guy and then find the same exact you know, truck
and it snowmobiles around the area to reenact it. I mean,

(01:17:42):
it's not hard to reenact something. But when he reenacted
the subject in the film, if you go back Chris
and look at both of them, the guy moves totally different.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
And that's why I bring this up is because you know,
when I first started looking into the Gable film, I
was skeptical because you know, I saw the film and
then months later it comes out on a Monster Quests
and it's a fake, And then I was disappointed. And
then I look back at the footage. You'd be like
a couple of years later after and I'm thinking, Okay,
you know, it could be real, and it's possible it
could be real. And the movements I think somewhat mimic

(01:18:18):
what the guy reenacts, but it's hard to tell because
the footage how it shot. It's shot on eight milimeters
not seven millimeters footage, right, So you're being shot on
footage that it goes back existing towards the fifty sixties seventies, right.
You have all of this, and then on top of that,
it's the camera. The cameraman jerks the camera so fast
and runs that it's really hard to tell in the movement.

(01:18:40):
But you have enough time in that millisecond of time
frame as quick as it is to see how quick
the movement in the proportion of the body moves when
it's charging this guy, and it's preferred it's literally right
when it starts to charge, and it's like in the
moving There's been people who talked about it and it's

(01:19:02):
shape shifting. I personally, when I look at that, I
see in that footage something massive. It looks so huge
and big, and then when it starts to charge at
the person, you know, it's really hard to distinguish because
of how legitimately freaky it looks. And then there's a
second footage of the aftermath of the crime scene. Now

(01:19:24):
it's been up for debatum. I know that even though
this guy described the fake body and had photographs of
the fake body and all this other stuff the Gilliesuit,
I'm still skeptical and I'm still under the impression that
this was covered up, that there's more to it, that
Aaron Gable probably did exist, and that there was real footage,
and unfortunately he's deceased to tell the story. But at

(01:19:47):
the same time too, when it came to for the
longest time, trying to find about what happened to this
guy that shot the film, this guy named Michaeh Grusa,
I found out he's still around, but he's posting different
things all around Facebook and social media. But he was
mia for a very long time, and then he came

(01:20:08):
back recently. So you know, I'm trying to see if
I can get a hold of him and talk to
him about it. But the Gable film has always been
one of those controversial bats to me because I felt
that there was more to the footage. You know, I've
always felt that something's missing. Now, maybe there's some disclosure
reports and other things that you know, they can't say

(01:20:29):
because you know, Monster Quest wanted to make a very
interesting episode, and others believe that maybe it was because
of the fact that the footage itself is fake. But
there's actually real footage of an Aaron Gable getting killed
by a dog man.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Yeah, exactly. I do believe that too.

Speaker 4 (01:20:47):
I could say, I you know, I keep an open
mind to the Gable film. It's just one of those that,
you know, there's so many naysayers and you know obviously
went on TV. But you know, I'm one of those that,
just like with the news, I don't believe everything I hear.
You know, I keep an open mind to it, and
I form my own opinion on everything, like I'm across,
whether it's dog man, sasquatch, gugway, UFOs.

Speaker 3 (01:21:09):
I think it's just.

Speaker 4 (01:21:09):
Us as humans that that's what we do is we
form our own opinion. But like you said, there it
seems like there's gotta be some type of cover up
because obviously the man in the film that was attacked
is obviously deceased, so I can't really get his side.
But I mean that's it opens up so many different
topics and stuff that we can cover and.

Speaker 3 (01:21:31):
Jump in different rabbit holes we could jump down.

Speaker 4 (01:21:33):
But like I say, when it comes, I love Monsterquest
and I you know, Doug Iicheck does a great job.
Love the guy, and I think he puts out great content.
It's just the fact that I just keep an open
mind too it because just like with the controversy with
the Patterson Gimlin film and so many other sasquatch footage,
that we have one for the dog Man and it's
obviously oh no, it's a fake, you know, just just

(01:21:56):
throw something else so quickly, and then like you said,
they started, you know, analyzing it. And the gentleman that
filmed that, I forget his name, he said, Mike grus Up.
Sorry if I butchered that, but uh he was. You know,
he's all of a sudden made he's appeared again. It's
just like where were you at? You know, It's just
it's one of those that you know, keep an open

(01:22:17):
mind to everything you see and form your own opinions.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
What I was my big thing.

Speaker 4 (01:22:21):
I try to tell people, not telling you, hey, believe
what I'm presenting to you. But just like when I
go out in the woods and I'm taking footage and
I see something that might look like a dog man,
I think I have some compelling photos to me that
really stand out, And now I can. I've shared him
on my Facebook page and I'll send him to you, Chris,
if you want to take a look. A lot of
people have shared it to you say hey, I see
something there. I see a snout, I see what you

(01:22:43):
see his eyes, And then I've had other people say hey,
it's paradolia.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
I'm like, hey, you form your own opinion on it.
I'm just sharing you what.

Speaker 4 (01:22:49):
I see in the photo, not telling you it was
a dog man. Hey, the woods were deathly silent when
my wife and I were out hiking. We were about
four miles in and I just knew it was dead quiet,
so we started turning around. But I started taking photos
all around me, and then after I got home to
analyze them, I'm like, hey, that looks like something. What
looks like appears to be ears, the eyes and the

(01:23:10):
snout appearing not looking directly at me, but more where
my wife was, and she was probably about i'd say,
fifteen to twenty yards away from me as we were
hiking e spam on this trail and I taking this
photo and I zoom in and it looks like it's
phixtuated on her. And then that same photo or in
the same you know, hike, I caught another photo in

(01:23:34):
the snow and it looks like what looks like a sasquatch.
It's got more of an ape like face. I've posted
that I got crucified in so many different groups, but
I'm like, it's just something I not telling you I saw,
it's something I reviewed. So until we actually have really
legit photos or footage like Patterson Kingland, no matter what,
like I say earlier in the interview, you're gonna have

(01:23:56):
naysayers regardless.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
I'm with you on that, and I couldn't have topped
it any better than that. Man, I honestly have to
be real and say this too. I think one of
the biggest compromises is Field suffers from is especially accountability
and belief respects coming from different camps. I think organizations
and independent researchers can never co exist because there's always
being something thrown at the table. Not to say anything bad,

(01:24:21):
it's just the nature of the beast. I think people
just have to learn how to respect one another. But
that'll never happen because our society right now is hard
to coexist and with all of the unfortunate circumstances. But
I hope one day we can come to that compromise.
Because the research aspect is still ongoing. We don't have
any concrete answers yet, and we're still trying to find
solutions questions. Before I go ahead and wrap things up

(01:24:44):
and we go and promote your everything that you got,
my friend, I want to ask about the whole dog
Man aspect. It's my final question about dog men. There's
a lot of photographs and there's a lot of people
out there. We talked about dog Man AI earlier. We
talked a lot about a lot of these other things

(01:25:05):
in terms of fabrication. But there are photographs like the
on Away photograph, photographs like the Besa seven Shoots, the
nineteen sixty eight Michigan photograph in the Fields, and also
too there are weird I think, I don't know which
it was, but there's also been a couple of photographs

(01:25:26):
and I don't know if it was Michigan or in Wisconsin,
somewhere in Texas I think too, of mysterious cryptids or
dog werewolf like creature that was shot on camera. And
then there was also this CCTV footage of a werewolf
looking creature shown by a gate fence. I think that
was proven to be false, though I think people were

(01:25:48):
debunking that. I remember I was reading something about that.
My whole point is, Shane, all these different things about dogmen.
Do you think that we're dealing here with flesh and
blood creature or we're dealing with an actual werewolf.

Speaker 4 (01:26:05):
I believe that's a really good topic, and you know,
question because there's so many different theories on it. My
personal opinion on it, Chris is if fits something here
and it's feasting on a carcass, it's flesh and blood.

Speaker 3 (01:26:21):
But I've seen trail camp photos of a gentleman.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
I don't know if it was Wisconsin or if it
was in the South, but where he baited the creature
and you see a black fog or like a fog
missed appear, but you never see the actual subject in
the footage or the picture you see where he baited
the area and you put a trail cam right there,

(01:26:44):
but it just all of a sudden they were just
missed and then all of a sudden the bait was gone.
So my personal opinion on the dog man phenomenon, if
this thing is flesh and blood in a dimensional, is
really just keep an open mind because there's so many
different encounters that are just so out of there, out
of that are so bizarre that really you just gotta

(01:27:06):
take it, not take it with the granite salt, but
just keep an open mind to it instead of just
throwing something out like I've heard. The most crazy story
I heard was these dog men running out here in
California near the Joshua Tree National Forest. And this guy
was cruising down the road real quick and he, you know,
was two three o'clock in the morning, and he sees

(01:27:26):
a portal open up and it's like a bluish hue
thing just open up in the you know, and these
twelve dog men I want to say it was twelve,
but they come running out in formations in suits. I'm
just like, man, this guy is either on something or
this is the most crazy story. But right there, I
don't disprove it. It's something that or you know, debunk or
anything like that, and just I keep an open mind, like, hey,

(01:27:47):
that's an interdimensional obvious encounter, or like I was telling
you with the trail cam footage, there's a paranormal aspect
to it. Is are these things interdimensional or or there's
certain ones that are interdimensional, or is there the ones
that are just flesh and blood. I believe when they're
here in this realm or on Earth and you see
them running across the road or a cemetery, or they're

(01:28:07):
eating on the carcass or carrying something and running away,
they're flesh and blood, bit breeds. It's flesh and blood
my personal opinion. But like I said, I keep an
open mind to all of it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:19):
I'm with you on that. I do keep an open mind.
I've always assumed flesh and blood due to the circumstances
of the evidence and a lot of the things we've
gotten in terms of descriptions, one of them being, of course,
when they're eating dead carcasses such as deers and raccoons.
There's also been a few incidences too where I think

(01:28:39):
there is a lot of flesh and blood characteristics of
a natural predator. Take bears for example, right bears often
done this where they've chased after cars. There's footage of
a mama bear chasing a truck because the baby bear
is like trying to get up on a hill, and
the mama bear, even though that this car is about

(01:29:02):
fifty feet away and driving the opposite way, just bluff
charging the truck. So there was this case in the
nineties on the beast of Bray Road. It was of
Doorstein Gibson. I don't know if you're familiar with that name,
but Doris had a counter where she apparently was I
guess driving on Bray Road. She was flipping I guess

(01:29:25):
the CD cassette changing a CD or whatever, or videotape whatever.
I am not from the eighties and nine, from the
eighties and the nineties up until ninety six, so I
deeply apologize. I don't know if it was CDs or
if it was the tapes, the tape cassettes, but anyways,
you have the idea that she's driving switching it up,

(01:29:47):
and then next thing you know, she hit something. This
thing comes out and all of a sudden, this starts
charging right at her, and apparently she gets back in
the car drives off. This thing gets on top of
the roof. But because this thing was it was raining
earlier tonight, it was slippery and it flew right off.
I believe in these things retaliate. I believe these things

(01:30:09):
know when there are dangers, mortal threats. I also believe
that they can identify when a human is morally good
and also bad. But that's just my intake on that.
Before I do go and clude on the topic a
dog Menuh, Shane, do you have any comments or anything

(01:30:29):
you'd like to add in terms of the dogmen topic
or anything? I had said?

Speaker 3 (01:30:34):
Nope.

Speaker 4 (01:30:34):
I think we've we've covered a lot, and we can
jump down so many more rabbit holes. Chris and I,
you know, it's been such an honor just talking to you.
I know we've been on this for roughly almost two hours,
but man, I could talk to a dog man with
you twenty four to seven and jump down numerous countless
you know, rabbit holes.

Speaker 3 (01:30:52):
But the one with the briefs the Bray road.

Speaker 4 (01:30:54):
But that encounter you just said, I was just you know,
visualizing at my yep. And I believe there was a
touch up on that just a little bit. I believe
wasn't it her car that had the slash marks along
the side of it? I know it was another case
it might have been hers, but I believe it was
in Wisconsin where there was actually photographic image of the

(01:31:16):
claw marks across the car. I think I believe it
was a red car that either she had or the
other person that hadn't encounter with the dogmen or the
Beast of Bray Road.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
I think it was hers. I think it was her
car that had the scratches. I don't I'm trying to
see if I can find that preferred vehicle. I know
that there was a news report from inside. Addition, because
I originally believed, if I'm not mistaken, that this was
taken in the late nineties, this is actually in the

(01:31:49):
early nineties when this was happening the Beast of Bray
Road because prior to it, a waitress was leaving I
think good either leaving her job. I think it was that,
or it was a woman who was coming back from
somewhere on her way to work somewhere else and she
had seen a creature across the road and had yellow eyeshine,

(01:32:10):
a guy was leaving. It was a guy. A guy
was leaving to go to work one night and he
happened to see a creature hop a fence and it
was like a werewolf looking creature. So there's a lot
of things on those roads, Man and Bray Road, and
I think what Doristein's seen that night was definitely something
that was of ominous nature. But it really freaked me

(01:32:34):
out when I first heard about it because it showed
that these things are a lot more different than bigfoot.
They'll actually come at you. And you're right, we've talked
about so many different things. Man, we can talk about
so much down the rabbit hole. But you know that's
why there's always part twos and threes and always different
times for discussion. But man, I'm gonna be honest with you.
I mean, Shane, you know, I've talked to so many people,

(01:32:57):
you know, and I've had the amazing honor and you know,
like I tell everyone on this privilege and you know,
like you, my friend, it's a privilege, and as well
we continue our conversations and talk research before we go
ahead and wrap up the show. Though, Shane, can you
by all means promote what you got coming the floor
is yours. You know what you got, your show? Where

(01:33:18):
can people view your show? And any additional projects you
got that are going to be on the horizon.

Speaker 4 (01:33:24):
Okay, Yeah, So if people want to check out my content,
I have a YouTube channel called West Coast dog Man
Project and I interview dogmen eye witnesses and I have
an awesome co host. His name's Todd Metz and lives
up in Washington and he's helped me actually recently get
a few guests that have had encounters across the United

(01:33:45):
States and great guy. And that's what we're what we
have in the near future is actually starting next month,
I'm starting in the UK series is I'm going to
be interviewing three to four eyewitnesses from the UK that
have had dogmen encounters.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
So that's my next project I'm working on.

Speaker 4 (01:34:02):
If you want to check out any of my cryptis
pages on Facebook, they're all underneath the West Coast name.

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
I've kind of created a.

Speaker 4 (01:34:10):
Circus of the West Coast cryptids from dogmen, sasquatch, Gugway,
UFO skin walkers, and cheap oficabras. I've also gotten numerous
dogmen pages on Facebook, I've got West Coast dog Man.
I'm also the regional director for the North American dog
Man Project and I cover eleven states in the West.

(01:34:31):
And we also have two other dog man pages, one
called uk D for the United Kingdom Dogmen Encounters, and
I also have another dogman page I'm still kind of
working on, but that's to cover almost like a global aspect.
But yeah, you can find me on YouTube, find me
on Facebook under Seane Michael Crisp. I'd bean send me
a message to be more than happy to help you

(01:34:52):
out and if you have questions, I'll feed you the
best knowledge or my opinion on dogmen or any other cryptids.
But dogmen are my main topic of you know, research
that I cover, So hit me up.