The Viewing Room Ep 28 - The Outsiders - Review and Analysis - The Viewing Room

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
They are nice clothes college kids, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
So, as I said to my dad when were watching that,
anybody who wears a sweater like that cannot be bullying
anyone else.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. There's too much plaid to be
able to bully.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Get like the freaking like you know, like yellow baby
yellow like sweater that the one was wearing. I'm like,
my grandma wouldn't wear that like And now time for
the viewing room with Adam and Eton.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Welcome to the viewing room where we talk about films
new and old, local and global. What are you doing?
I don't know. That was insane. That's what happens when
you have an energy drink at nine in the morning. Yeah,
oh yeah, you did im? Sorry ten in the morning.
Oh difference the outsiders least March twenty fifth, nineteen eighty three,

(01:03):
which was the same day Michael Jackson unveiled the moonwalk
at Motown twenty five. Isn't that crazy? He did the
moonwalk for the first ever time.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Have you seen the videos of that and people's reaction
in the crowd. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
It's it's freaking awesome's famous?

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Well no, really, I didn't know whoa.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
But I'm trying. I don't know how long ago is
that seventeen plus twenty five. I can't do that math
thirty two to forty two. Forty two years ago, that's insane.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Don't do that math forty two. That's the answer is
the meaning of life?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, but pretty crazy forty two years ago on March
twenty fifth, so it's almost been I guess forty two
years exactly. Look at that. I don't know if you
found that as school as I did, but that was
pretty cool. Budget of ten million USD. Like not a
particularly high budget, I mean, but for from for a

(02:00):
movie based off of a book with little special effects,
that does seem kind of like it seems not too large,
but like, yeah, definitely, it just one seems like there
was some star power in this movie before they were stars. Say, right,
we got Ralph Macchio, we got Tom Cruise, we got
Rob Lowe. Right, we have all these people, right, and

(02:24):
and they weren't really stars or anything. I would venture
to say, Patrick.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Swayze was about the only one that was really already
established like that.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Was Tom Was this Tom Cruise's first movie?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
He no, he did something when he was younger when
he was like thirteen or fourteen, I don't remember what
it's called, but it was one of his one of
his first like it wasn't his first.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well this is before they were they were any any anybody,
so maybe like you know what I mean, they were
they were still new, fresh out of the gate kind
of acting first second projects kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
It's crazy to see all these guys though, Like I mean, like,
I mean, I know the like I know, Emilia asked
if it is from like Mighty Duck, you know, and
like karddi Kid, and that's I know, that's what I'm saying.
But like all these you know, these guys, you know
them from different movies, and then you see him at
once like this where they're just getting going. It's kind
of cool, you know.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, I was waiting for Tom Cruise to hop in
a fighter jet at some point.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Like but even you can already see the beginnings of
why he was a star even in that, like just
little things like when he's like, you know, hopping the fence.
Then he just flips off a car.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
And shit like it falls.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
Yeah yeah, like yeah, even and then he's doing his
own stunts and it's just he.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Did do his own sons. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, yeah,
uh okay, it grows thirty million dollars basically on Google
it said twenty seven million. Then it's at like thirty
I was watching a video someone said thirty five, So
I just put it in the middle at thirty million.
I think put these older movies the box office sing
sometimes are a little bit hard to you know what
I mean. Like, yeah, and this controversial movie, and we'll

(03:57):
get to that in a bit, but it is pretty controversial.
And the book itself that it's based on was banned
and it's never been officially unbanned in lots of places.
I can read that fact. The book was banned in
nineteen eighty six in Wisconsin and it's never been officially
unbanned there. I mean some school districts probably read it

(04:17):
still or do whatever. You can still take it out
when someone when when let's say a book is banned,
is it really ever banned? Well, first of all, I
think that's a terrible practice to ban books and movies
and stuff. What the book?

Speaker 2 (04:28):
But but like I mean, you really I think you
can age restrict book?

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Sure cannot.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, there's no there is, There's no reason to ban
a book like.

Speaker 1 (04:41):
That's like a fascist thing to do, you know what
I mean, It's like it's a it's a control thing.
Like I mean, I get protecting your kids in the
best interest, but to protect them, protect them by monitoring
what they read and make sure that if they're reading
a book like this, they understand it in a way that,
you know, make it make sense. Be an active parat
or teacher educator where you're making them understand and and

(05:03):
develop a new idea, but don't ban it because you're
afraid that they might become a rebellious or do something. Right.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
It's like like you know, like when D and D
first came out in the seventies and all the parents
were like, oh, they're going to turn into devil worshippers
and Satanists and everything. It's like, okay, there was one
or two cases that that happened, but like it's like
any of these.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
You worship one demon and everyone thinks you're satan But
it's like any.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
Of these issues right most of the time, Like you know,
it's the same thing with like they talk about, like
with the violent video game stuff, right, like sure, it's
going to turn you into a you know, a mass
murderer or something. It's like the only reason that happens
is if there's an underlying issue, right, Like a normal,
sure sane person doesn't do that just because they read

(05:50):
a book.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
No, exactly, And that's that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
It's like I said, age, you're strict, Like I mean,
I remember, like you know, you couldn't take out ya
books when I was in elementary school. You couldn't take
out young adult books until grade seven and eight. Now
I found ways around that, of course, but but like
you know, things like that.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
If you're if you're willing to read and understand and
educate yourself, then as an educator's in my opinion, an
educator's job, whether that be a teacher or a parent
or a guardian of some sort a mentor, your job
isn't to ban or try and have your person abstain

(06:32):
from that thing, because at the end of the day,
you'll find a way around it. Right, it's the thing.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
And when it's when it's when it's a thing that
you're not aware of, it's almost more fascinating. Right if
you're aware that it exists, but you're not like like,
but you know about it, whereas if like, you know,
there's this thing out there like oh roh, like oh,
but you don't really know anything about it, you're more
likely to, like, I feel like, you're more likely to
be into it than if you're like aware of drugs
and you're aware of the you know, the the harmful

(06:58):
effects and everything about it.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Right. And that's that's why as an educator, in my opinion,
I'm not an expert. I know nothing. I talk about movies.
I think the proper practice is to, hey, if you're interested,
let's do this, let's read it together, maybe like read
it as a class. We'll figure it out, we'll discuss,

(07:22):
and we'll try and get to the bottom of what
it is and what you think it means. And then
that way we're more proactive, right, We're we're not. There's
no there's no indoctrinating, right. It's not like I'm handing
you mind comf and you're like, Okay, now find the solution, buddy,
you know you know what I mean. It's not like
that shit. It's like, Okay, let's try and find the

(07:42):
root cause an event or or what the characters are doing, right,
stuff like that, And and that's more helpful than banning
the product, right, And we see that nowadays too in well,
like saying Saskatoon here they have drug testing sites now too, right,
you know what I mean, where you can go in
and get your drugs tested for for fentanyl instead of

(08:04):
instead of them taking your drugs away right now. Again,
I'm not an expert on those practices, and I don't
have opinions or anything like that because I talk about movies.
But that's different. That's that's kind of like a similar
thing where it's it's trying to educate people rather than
you know, making them feel feel a certain way, right,

(08:25):
And I think I don't Maybe that's not the best comparison.
Maybe that's a really shitty comparison. I don't know who cares?
You get what I'm trying to say. And and I think, yeah,
I think book banning is kind of a weird, outdated thing.
And I think it's it seems like a weird fascist
thing to do, you know what I mean, like burning
books in Nazi Germany. Right, But like, yeah, I just

(08:47):
don't think it works.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
It's just not even fists any extreme. Yeah, the communists
and the fascists do it, you know, both of them
do it.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Sure. And I think even now as we move into
a digital age, you know, it's harder and harder to
suppresse certain things like that. You can limit someone's Internet access, sure,
but there's gonna be ways around that, right, and there
is ways around that. And so again that's why instead
of handing your kids the iPad and being upset that
they went on YouTube and watching something they shouldn't have,

(09:16):
be an active parent and and you know, make sure
what they're watching is is proactive, right and beneficial, or
that they understand what they're watching, right and so and
so that's kind of like, you know what I mean.
But I'm not a parent, I'm not a teacher. I
talk about movies. So take that with a grain of salt.
Still a valid opinion. It was a valid opinion. I
think so too. Thanks anyways, Okay, see Thomas Howell, we

(09:43):
got Ralph Macio, Rob Low, Tony Boy, Soda Pop Johnny
not in that order. But whatever, I don't know what
it is. Maybe I find maybe I found Ralph Maccio
a better actor than the other boys at that time.

(10:06):
I found it was.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Probably the biggest problem in this movie is that if
these guys are all early in their careers. They're young,
and a lot of the acting feels mechanical and and
the low way the lines are delivered feels mechanical, like.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
And Tony Boy a little bit, yeah, and just.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
And it's also partially I think the way the films
were written back then. But the other thing is, I mean,
like they're acting too, like not none of those guys
are gonna be able to cry on command, you know, Like.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
That's the other thing.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
And so it's, as my dad put it, when when
they're when they're when they're doing the crying, it's like
you know when you see your kid trying to fake
it to get something from their mom or something, you know,
like it's and it's it's not a problem exactly. I mean,
it sure would it have been better with with good
like better acting, guess.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
But like, I don't think the acting is bad at all.
I don't think it's bad. I think sometimes like some
of their like I think stiff is maybe the word
ideas sometimes Yeah, but when you realize it's a movie
shot in the eighties that takes place in the sixties,
and these are all kids trying to be greasers and stuff,

(11:22):
it is pretty uh, like it's remarkable in a way,
like I respect the acting a lot, Like how like
I felt like convinced, but there is times like not
that the acting is bad, but there is times where
you're just looking and you're like, well.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
It's just it just feels like they're reading off a script.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
Sure, yeah, no, like it just it just feels like yeah,
And I mean that's tough, right, And you don't want
to judge child acting or anything like that, like to
too hard, right, because they're all new in their careers. Right.
But I like, again, I don't think it was bad
by any mean. I think there was some really good performances.
Sometimes it's a little stiff, but when you really break
it down and realize that these are it's acting like

(12:02):
kids from twenty years ago, kind of like and very
unique kids, you know what I mean, it's kind of like, hey,
like that's not bad by any search of the means, right,
And so I don't know, I think the characters feel real,
but like, yeah, it's just like maybe just sometimes there's
a little bit that's just missing for me. Yeah, but
nothing like horrible and we can talk about it more later.

(12:26):
But I feel like some of the character deaths just
didn't really hit for me, Like it just didn't feel
like as emotional, Like I wasn't really attached to it.
And that's kind of tough because like it probably should
have been pretty emotional, but I was kind of like,
like it's it's tragic at some points, but I'm kind
of like, I don't know. Maybe I just didn't have
enough time, maybe the characters didn't grow enough, or maybe

(12:48):
I just didn't have enough time with him to care
too much. But like especially when what's his name was
it Soda Pop that gets shot Dally Dally when he
gets shot, like I was just kind of like, oh,
like you know what I mean, Like I was.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Like an asshole for the whole thing, which is his character.
Like he played the asshole great, like he played it
really well, but like.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
It's is he like super asshole? Though? Doesn't he give
the boys money? And he's an asshole I basically everyone?
But then yeah, but I mean pony Boy like sees
his death and it's like pretty distraught, like but yeah,
but he's.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Still an asshole. Like there's no denying that he's an asshole.
He might be a likable asshole to his buddy, but
he's still an asshole. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like
it's like Ryan, you know Network Ryan, He's an asshole,
but we still like him for the most part.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Sometimes I like that, but you know, I like that.
I do like that. I was directed by Francis for Coppola. Coppola,
however you say it, I always mess that up. Uh,
good old Francis. I will read the synopsis and then
we can get we still done that yet. Oh there's
been a good conversation. Okay. The Outsiders film synopsis a

(14:07):
teen gang in rural Oklahoma. The Greasers are perpetually at
odds with the Socials, a rival group. So Socials are
like the north side, right, yeah, south side, one of
the two. They're one of the sides of the train tracks,
and then the Greaser's on the other side. And see, I.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Wish it would have gone east side west side, but
then it's too close to the west side story. I mean,
it's basically West Side story without the music.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
I could see it, you know. Fun fact, Uh, Francis
Ford Coppola. He had the all the actors playing the
Socials at the top floor of the hotel they were
staying at, and all the Greacers stay at the bottom
floor to feel like there was a little bit of
actual tension there. There you go. When Greezer's pony Boy

(14:56):
and Johnny get into a brawl that ends in the
death of a social member, the boys are was to
go into hiding. Soon, pony Boy and Johnny, along with
the intense Dallas and their other greaser buddies, must contend
with the consequences of their violent lives. Some grocers try
to achieve redemption, others meet tragic ends. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Like I said, West Side Story without the music and darker.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
And more knives.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah, yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
I don't understand. I don't really understand the line where
he leaves like pony Boy leaves the movie theater. He's like,
when I left the cinema that day, all I had
on my mind was what does he say? Two things?
One was the movie and the actor at home the actor.
One of them was the actor. Yeah, I never understood that.

(15:46):
I never I don't understand that, and I think someone
should have to have.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
So if you mean he's writing down his story, that
was his term Like, this story is basically his term paper.
So the opening we see, you know when I left
move here that they had two things him in my
actor and a ride home. And then at the very
end it comes full circle and he starts writing his
term paper because his teacher's okay, you're flunking and used

(16:11):
to do a project, and i'll pass you with.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
The c oh and the third quarter or third semester
or whatever yet yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
So he starts writing and he's like, oh yeah, research paper.
He's like, now, personal experience. So he starts writing down
his story and so that's where it starts.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
So it's, well, I see, okay, okay, I get that.
I get that. That that explains it better because I
never really understood why he said that. So thank you, Yeah,
thank you. I'm not as I didn't spend a lot
of time last night. I'm gonna be honest. I finished
the movie at ten thirty, did like thirty minutes of writing,
and then I went straight to bed, you know, so

(16:48):
like I didn't like, I wasn't like magnifying glass trying
to come through Google reviews or something to try and
figure it out. So thank you. I want to know
what you felt about that. So outline, how long do
you want the outline to me?

Speaker 2 (17:09):
I think we can we can make it pretty quick.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
We made it pretty quick. Okay. We got a greaser's right,
We got pony Boy. He uh he lives with his
two brothers, like the kind of greasers and brothers. Yeah,
and Dalas Dalla's not the guy. Uh darl What is
Patrick Darrel? I don't know, because we got Soda Pop,

(17:36):
pony Boy, Johnny.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Hold on, Well, Gary's calling me, Hey, buddy, welcome to
the viewing room. It's it's going great. Uh No, No,
I just couldn't figure out how to turn the heater off.
I forgot which way to push the thing, but I
gotta figure it out.

Speaker 1 (17:56):
We're good. You sure, lot's hitting cut from the episode. Yeah,
all right, see you, buddy. Anyways, so we meet the boys.

(18:20):
They're kinda I don't I feel like we kind of
get introduced to the characters for the first fifteen to
twenty minutes of the film, right, we learn about their
lives as greasers. We know they're kind of not necessarily
on the run, but we know a lot of them
are maybe for lack of a better word, vagrants in
a way, or are perceived as as maybe vermin by
other people. And I think it goes to maybe some

(18:44):
parts of the film seems where it's like, maybe don't
judge a book by its cover, you know what I mean,
because a lot of people see the greasers as greasy
and and they're kind of maybe what would be considered
as like a slum dog, you know, you know what
I mean? Does that make is that a good comparison?
And then the socials are maybe seem more like upper

(19:04):
class ellas with uh.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
I mean, like you know, the you can even see
it in just like you know, the vehicles that they drive.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
They are nice clothes, college kids, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
So, as I said to my dad we were watching that,
anybody who wears a sweater like that cannot be bullying
anyone else.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny. There's too much plaid to be
able to bully get like the freaking like you know,
like yellow baby yellow like sweater that the one was wearing.
I'm like, my grandma wouldn't wear that, Like it's it's
it's funny you bring that up because like at a
time like that in the sixties, right where you have
the upper class people who are wearing plaid and in

(19:42):
blue jeans and stuff like that making fun of the
kids in leather jackets, riding motorcycles, and slick the back hair.
It almost seems like that is a one eighty compared
to what we actually consider someone with a leather jacket
to be super cool with grease hair, beanal, suave and
ship right. And so it's very interesting to see that

(20:05):
kind of dynamic play out like that where these kids
that would be perceived as cool maybe nowadays or even
back then, are are seen as as like vagrants or
ruffians or something compared to the high actual up rachelon
of of gang violence with college kids and frat boys

(20:25):
and stuff. But but uh yeah, interesting interesting take, right.
I like I like how you said there something my
grandma wouldn't wear. That's pretty funny. I like that. That's
like I said, yeah, yeah, exactly, No one you got stabbed.

(20:48):
So we meet some of the characters. They go to
a movie theater, They meet some girls who are affiliated
with the socials. They have some boyfriends who are socialists.
Uh time, if you were a socialism fucking commedy was
socialism a thing? This is the middle of Cold War? No,

(21:11):
but communism, that's all that's the Cold War. That socialism
is basically communist. Yeah, but I thought socialism was like
was a nullified communism to like redefine it.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
After the Cold step underneath communism on the on the
on the chart.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Because Marxism was what early nineteen hundreds.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
Well, Marxism is communism. Karl Marx wrote the basic.

Speaker 1 (21:33):
Right, right, that's what I mean. Right, Like it's like
right before World War One with Lenin, right is that? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:41):
I mean, so the Soviets have been we're pushing for
for like communist stuff basically from the turn of the
century or right around the turn of the centry. But yeah,
the revolution with Lenin and but yeah, socialism and communism
are basically the same thing. Socialism is kind of a
step under on.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
The on the the left to right, I mean, yeah, yeah,
like I yeah, I always perceived socialism as being like
a more progressive version of communism, like that came out
after the Cold War, So like, yeah, I get like
I said, I don't know anything about that.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
I said, it's just it's kind of too in the same.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
But it's I feel like at a time like this,
it would have been black and white. If you even
had socialist ideas, you were a commed you know what
I mean. That's why I don't feel like.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
I guess maybe it's not as underneath exactly, as more
of like socialism is more of the left wing ideology
as a whole, and communism.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
Is like a that's an extreme, almost an extreme.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Within that idea, like like it's like like socialism, like
you could say, like we in Canada, we have socialist
ideas because we have free healthcare.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
And on the other side, on the other side, it's
like the difference between capitalism and fascism. They make that
comparison a lot is like how close can you get
without getting there? You know, you know what I mean,
And so socialism and communism would be something similar going
down that ladder.

Speaker 2 (23:13):
Except that that capitalism is an economic system.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
But yeah, but like you can you can make comparisons,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, but yeah, I mean this this movie is set
like like you know, the fifties, sixties, that's right in
the middle of the Cold War, like anything that was
perceived as socialists.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
That's That's what I'm trying to say, is like if
you have any inkling of those ideas, you're kind of
like a.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
Commedy social social and socialized.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
Yeah exactly. So that's why I feel like it doesn't
really matter at that point because you were just like
there was no right, You're either here or there. I
think is a good way of analyzing that. So the
socialists they're not good people, really, but there's not a

(24:04):
lot of great people, you know, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (24:07):
He kind of redeems himself later.

Speaker 1 (24:09):
There's some redemption, right, like and that they're not good
people because they don't want to be. I think there's
like kind of like a social thing where like, you know, sorry,
I think the greasers aren't as bad as other people
think they are because not that they're necessarily forced to
do crime or anything that, but a lot of them

(24:31):
lack parental figures. A lot of them have grown up
in backgrounds where you know, they don't have anybody. They've
been on their own for so long. And I think
when you compare that to the socials, you kind of
realize that a lot of them seem like almost like
rich white kids with fancy cars and girls in college. Right.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
The other thing is like historically and like this is
kind of based on the idea that you said rich
white kids and then the greasers are more of the Italians,
and that was that was another social dynamic.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Right, And so it's like, while we see a lot
of the greasers do bad things or say rude stuff
or steel or do stuff like that, we're kind of
almost inclined to be more on their side because they're
almost put in a position where they do a lot
of that stuff to survive or because it's what they know.

(25:29):
But it seems like for a lot of times the
social kids are kind of bored almost, is what it
seems like.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Really, how much actual crime do they make besides the
murder and stuff.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
No, but they do make a lot of references to
greasers that should be in jail or just got out
of jail, like.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Like the ones that were actually following. I mean really
they just kind of live more of a poor lifestyle really,
I mean they dropped out of high school, they have jobs,
but like what crimes do they commit?

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Right? I think there's just i mean, just like the
overall culture. Yeah, that's like I think, like overall like
we want to side with with pony Boy and Johnny
and in turn all the other greasers. Well, I'm just
saying like, as a general consensus, when we see the

(26:18):
socials do bad things, it's because it seems like they're
bored and they just want to cause trouble. When we
see the greasers do bad things, we're kind of like, oh,
we want to sympathize more because it's like, oh, did
he really know what he was doing there? Right? Blah
blah blah blah. You know you know what I mean?
Does that kind of make sense?

Speaker 2 (26:34):
Yeah? Yeah, it's it's more of a necessity for them,
not necessarily a necessity, but it's more of a necessity
than for the social right.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
And it's a fine line because you have to kind
of really dig into like, Okay, at the time, what's
necessary do you need to be stealing? Like right, like
to survive? Like it's a whole it's a whole thing.
And I don't know if we have time to go
with dissect the movie frame by frame to see what
was necessary where we can infer from there. But anyways, basically,

(27:03):
Ralph and pony Boy get jumped because they're associating with Cherry,
who is dating the social boy and and they don't
like that, so they get jumped. They start drowning Johnny
now pony Boy, pony Boy, they start drowning, and Ralph
he's like I'm going the stabs dude. So he pulls

(27:24):
out his knife, he stabs the kid, and all the
other college kids are socials. They run away. Yeah, but
they just realize, oh, shoot, they killed a kid. They
keep saying it was self defense, and they get off
in self defense. I guess maybe it's different in the States,

(27:48):
but I guess in Canada, and maybe the definition has changed.
But in Canada, you can only inflict the same amount
of force that's been inflict onto you that's deemed necessary,
so killing someone else, right, But the thing is, these guys.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
Are college kids, right, yes, and he's what sixteen, yes,
and there's four of them and there's one of him, yes,
So so you I think.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
It's self defense too. But by like a by like
a legal definition, I could see how like a lawyer
would be like, yeah, I can see how a lawyer
would be like, but you see, your honor, he was
just waterboarding him. He wasn't actually going to kill him.
He had no my client had no intend to kill him.
And they were just messing around and having fun and
this kid came and he killed him and stabbed him
to death, and all these innocent kids ran away scared, right,

(28:33):
that's right. I see what you mean for sure, And
so that's why like something like that in Canada, right,
like if someone punched you in the face and you
shot them, you'd go to jail, right right. Maybe in
the States you could actually get away with that though, right,
like if they're on your lawn or some shit, right,
but you get the shotgun.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
But uh, I know, this is one of the places
where I think acting really shrines through. Like when he's
sitting there against the fountain, he's shaking and he's like,
I think I killed him or whatever, he says like Donny,
I killed him. Yeah, I think that was one of
the best best acting jobs of the movie right there,
like you know, yeah, I just I agree.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
I was gonna say I don't disagree, which led him
to I just I disagree. I disagree. I disagree. It
was the second best acting in the movie. Take that.
Oh man, it's like one of those like videos. It's
like the one friend that always has to argue, you
know whatever. Oh, it's cool outside. No, it's not, like,
shut up, it is cool outside.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
This whole month is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
It's pretty cold. So the boys go on the run.
They go to Daly, who give hi some fifty bucks,
tells him to go to a gun, tells him to
go to this hill where churches and like the train there,
away on a train and then basically escape and high

(30:09):
get a week's worth worth of food and hide and
then he'll come get them when he thinks that it's
died down after four days. Yeah, right, after four days,
when it's just getting going. I know, I got it.
It's the eighties, but four days, come on back, yes,
I guess sixties. Yeah, so sorry, it's so it's so weird,

(30:30):
like eighty three and then it's in the sixties. Like
I think that's actually closer together than like you'd want
to think, right, Like, that's the same difference as as
like now in twenty twelve, you know what I mean,
take your man, Yeah, okay, that would be seven yeah,

(31:00):
like hold on a second, hold on, it's like but
realistically the difference is twenty years, right, I'd say most
more like we don't do we know what day in
the sixties?

Speaker 2 (31:10):
Like what I think it's in the fifties. I think
it's in like the late Oh.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
I thought I was in the sixties. I don't know,
I don't know. I was so confidently, like seventeen years
or or what did I say thirteen years? I said
thirteen years because I was like eighty three minus thirteen,
but that would be nineteen seventy. Yeah, Like, oh yeah,
I said in the sixties, right, yeah, did they know?

(31:35):
Like do we know when though? In the sixties?

Speaker 2 (31:39):
Nineteen sixty five is the fo.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Okay, yeah, then let's just say up twenty years, Like.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, about twenty years. It'll be now in forty two.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Five or sixty five whatever, it would be eighteen years,
it would be two it would be eighteen years technically
sixty five and twenty eighty three, so basically your life. Yeah, essentially, right,
I am twenty today. Thank you. Today is Valentine's Day
as we're recording it, which also means it is my
twentieth birthday today. Uh A fun little fact. I guess

(32:11):
we'll put that on the Ethan Trivia quiz for our
Patreon Uh yeah, subscribers, thanks to Gramma. So the boys.
The boys run so away in a train, and I
don't believe for a second that they just didn't turn
the flashlight the other direction. Their job is to check
the train car. They walk up to the train, train

(32:33):
car they're in, they do half of it, they scan
half of it, and the one guy's like, let's check
the next car. Check. I just I just like I
get it. They have to stow away in the train.
I just feel like that was pretty lazy, Like you
know what I mean, I just feel like I get it.

(32:53):
Whatever they have to escape or do or do something,
did they It's just unbelievable that it happened like that.
Just don't show us that they were checking the cars,
you know what I mean, It's the sixties. They didn't
check the cars then, Okay, I believe that, sure done,
you know what I mean, they check the cars then, realistically, yeah, yeah,
but I believe that they wouldn't check it then way

(33:16):
more in the middle of the night, way more realistically.
Then there was just two dudes with flashlights checking in
all the train cars in the middle of the night,
you know, you know what I mean, twelve twelve in
the morning, right, and that sure they do that now
or whatever. I know nothing about trains, but you know
what I mean, they're checking the car for checking the
whole car, right. If they can have them hiding behind

(33:36):
a box or some shit, sure fine, But don't don't
give me the half swipe. I'd be like, oh, let's
go over there.

Speaker 2 (33:43):
Yeah, half swipe never works, or you know.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
What I mean, like or throwing some sound effects where
like there's a bunch of dogs barking, you know what
I mean, Like a few a few trains back or
a few like cars back, and they're like, oh, let's
go check it out, you know what I mean, Like
give us some substance or just background noise, a little
bit of sound effects to give us something that like oh,

(34:07):
like or the train horn. Make the train horn go
like they need to, you know what I mean, Like
there's a conductor waiting for them. But like, don't don't
give me that. I just didn't. I didn't believe that
at all. I got you, Yeah, super nitpicky doesn't matter, No,
it doesn't. I just didn't believe that when I saw that. Anyways,
they go the church. They have some water and stuff

(34:28):
like with a well, and they buy a week's worth
of food in peanut butter, bread and baloney. They buy
a week's worth of blooney that looks like three weeks
worth of blooney. I'm gonna be honest. They put in
like a week of blooney fifty bucks. It was fifty
bucks they gave him. They I guarantee you they only

(34:49):
spent like four ninety ninety Yeah, right, like stuck back
then was cheap.

Speaker 2 (34:53):
But again they also were cheane smoking cigarettes for four days,
so those would have dude eaten into the budget too.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
I forgot. I I didn't write this down, but I can't.
I thank god you said that, because the one guy
says to his brother, he's like, hey, and don't smoke
more than a pack of Day or I'll never like
I'll kill you. Don't more than a day thirteen or
fourteen a pack of Day, Holy smokes man, Like, oh god,

(35:22):
I just can't. I can't believe that. You know.

Speaker 2 (35:25):
The thing is, I wonder how many smokes they go
through in a movie like this, because all the actors
are smoking for every take. I guarantee you most of
your cruise chain smoking too, like they they must have
like like gone through truckload.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, it's insane. Yeah, I cannot believe. I just cannot
believe that. It was so funny to me when he said, like,
don't smoke more than a pack of Day. Oh, my
kid brother and my other kid brother yeah, oh man,
that's funny. Anyway, Dally comes, he finds them. He tells

(36:02):
him that Soda Pop has been looking for a pony
boy wanted to give him a letter, and the authorities
sink they're in taxes. Okay, a bit of a logic
problem on my end, So I wrote, how cops knew
what they looked like? Okay, they're greaser boys, so we

(36:25):
kind of established that. I'll use the term slum dogs more. Okay,
maybe it's a small town, so maybe everyone knows everyone
and they all have run into with the law. But
how did the law know that these kids were exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
What they looks that were there? They interview Dally, they
get descriptions for them, they get sketches. It doesn't have
to be a good description.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
What's changing them from just getting different clothes that.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
That's what they do, that's what they try and do.
But the police are still going to put out that
they have But I don't I don't see the logic problem.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
I just don't understand. I just they knew, like, so
Cherry knows right, and she's will so Cherry knows and
they Dallas says that they can go and testify the
cops who think they're in Texas and that Dallas didn't

(37:27):
know where they were, and that chair Cherry is willing
to testify that that it was self defense. But Cherry
wasn't there when it happened.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
No, but she was willing to testify that the socials
were drunk and that they get into trouble when they're drunk,
and that would help with the self defense.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
It was just part of that. But she wasn't there,
so she really can.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Drunk because she was with them right before.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
But just because you're drunk doesn't mean you can convince
someone that had self defense.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
No, but that helped because if she can testify a character,
her witness that can testify when he's drunk, he gets violent,
and that sort of thing we.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
We have again. Cherry says right in the scene before,
you know, if I don't say high to you at school,
don't take it personal. Because she doesn't want anything to
do with them, and she has a long term social boyfriend,
and out of the goodness of her heart, she's gonna
say that her boyfriend was drunk that night, which she was,

(38:27):
which she was, which was shown in that scene right,
but never but was never there. Never saw it, so
it's kind of like it totally was, but she she
never saw what happened, so she would have had to
hear about it from this. They don't have to mean,
socials would have had to tell her.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
But she's not testifying that self defense. What she's what
they're saying.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
She does say in the movie that it like and
Dallas says that it'll help get them off on self defense,
it'll help.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
She's not testifying at their self defense. She's a character
witness to testify that he when he's drunk, he's violent.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
What she can do.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
She has seen both those things. We know she's seen
both the things because he says it in the scene
before when he's drunk. So you combine that with the
two boys and and everything, and they could probably get
them off on self as they do.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's just interesting to me that the cops would know.
Maybe I'm not, I just didn't not that it's not
believable at all. It's just interesting. It's just very I
find it very interesting in my opinion, that the cops
knew everything about these nobody boys and they had ran
off and did all that stuff, and they didn't know

(39:34):
it well because accurate sketches and stuff like that, and
they knew Dally, so they brought him in because blah
blah blah blah blah they knew him. And then Dally
told him that the boys ran off to Texas, which
would make him an accomplice, but they don't do anything
with what they don't.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
It doesn't necessarily make him an accomplice if he just says, yeah,
I know they ran off to Texas, but he didn't
have anything to do with it. He's not an accomplist.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
I don't know. I have no idea. I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
I don't see the problems.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
I don't necessarily think it's any problems or anything like that.
I'm just trying to pick apart the logic because there's
a lot of moving pieces, you know what I mean.
I don't I don't see any issues. But you said
there was a logic problem. Well we opened this whole
thing with I think there's a logic problem here. I guess, yeah,

(40:26):
maybe there is a logic problem, you know what I mean. No,
I don't mean it's tough. I don't think that. I
didn't think it's through. But and I can see I
definitely see how okay, they know Dally enough that like

(40:49):
they can bring him in and know what other greasers
like that that was a few greaser boys and stuff
like that. It's just like, I don't know, man, there's
something about it just didn't fully Maybe it just didn't
fully work for me because like maybe it's because we're
just not supposed to like any of the socials. But

(41:09):
it's just like, I don't know, there's an aspect of
believability for me that it's hard to believe that that
Cherry was able to testify with accuracy. Like I don't know,
it just goes back to like the laws stuff where
I'm just kind of thinking about like where we really
trust a witness that was never there.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
But she's not testifying that it was self defense. That's
that's the point is she's not testifying about the actual crime,
but they testifying about the person about the person that
was involved in the crime.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
Ally sends the boys back because he's so confident that
they'll get off on self defense. He says, it's okay
to go to that want to whatever.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
Whoever brings them back doesn't think they're going to get off.
He thinks it's crazy when they say they're going to
go back and get off on self defense.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
He doesn't want, but they're confident enough to go back,
and Sodo Pop's confident enough for them to go back
to trust Cherry's witness testimony. And so it's like, this
whole thing hinged on her is realistically what we're putting
it on, because otherwise no one would believe these slum dogs.
They would only believe the socials. But now there's a
social girl being like, hey, socials are out falls here.

(42:19):
So the whole thing, in my opinion, hinges on her character. Here,
if we want to believe her character is important and
I do it hinges on her.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
No, it doesn't, because it's it's a court of law.
If they're under oath, then they they're believe and if
they don't, then it's perjury.

Speaker 1 (42:33):
But you know what I mean, You can say, you
can say it's it's under oath, but let's be honest.
There's a lot of people who lie in court anyways
and do whatever right Like it's it doesn't really matter
if you're gonna be charged with attempted murder? Does does
perjury really if you're gonna get off, If you're not

(42:54):
gonna get off Anyways, is this perjury really matter? If
I'm going to get the death penalty, maybe I'll just
maybe I'll just do a little bit of perjury and like,
you know what I mean, you know what I mean,
what's the worst that happens? You kill me again? Right?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
You know?

Speaker 1 (43:07):
You know what I mean? Another ten years on my
life side?

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Think it hinges all on hur It's on, it's on,
it's on. It's on them as well, and they highlight
that in the end when they do go to court.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
So you're saying they would rather believe all the kids
who literally ran away left the province or wherever they
left off to ran away because they were scared they'd
face legal action, rather than the girl who was actually
a social and well be the most believable testimony them.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
It's the combined, it's the combination of all of them.

Speaker 1 (43:37):
I don't know about that one, Jeef. It makes complete
sense to me that one doesn't. That one doesn't make
sense to me.

Speaker 2 (43:44):
Like and and not necessarily to people testifying that they
were they were being assaulted basically and that it was
self defense, and then you have another person come in
to prove that the person was drunk and that when
that person is drunk, they get violent help support that
that person was assaulting.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
The other one from an outside perspective. From an outside perspective,
like without seeing what actually happened, someone gets stabbed to death.
Now you have the two people who did it ran
away to escape the law. Then all of a sudden
they show up to turn themselves in or whatever. They
get caught. Okay, So now you have two active fugitives
who just got caught and are realistically gonna do whatever

(44:27):
in their power to get off. Innocent until proven guilty,
Innocent until proven guilty. Right, But you can't. You can
argue that there's a mob mentality for sure, and there's
a lot of rich social people who are like, oh no,
my boy, they killed my boy. These dirty greasers, they
killed my boy. You know, you know what I mean.
So now I have two fugitives who are here now
and they need to try and defend themselves and their

(44:48):
whole in my opinion, their whole thing hinges on this
girl Cherry being a good person and being like, hey, no,
the socials are in the wrong here, which she does,
and they get off. Read But to everyone else who
didn't see it happen, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
It's like's not saying that they were in the wrong running.
She's not saying that they were.

Speaker 1 (45:09):
In the wrong.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
She's not testifying to what happened that night. She's testifying
to that person's character, which which helps support what the
other people are saying.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Right, I don't know, but that again, if she wouldn't
have done that, then they wouldn't have.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Right and why it was important and sometimes it is
one testimony that makes a break take.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
But they and they've been so so they run, they
run away. And so to me, as like, as an outsider,
the second you run away from the law, no matter what,
no matter how scared you are, you already kind of
paint yourself this big red not necessary thought on yourself
being like, hey, by the way, not necessarily. I again,

(45:56):
if if a cop does a traffic stop and you
feed away in your car, you know what I mean.
If you if you if a cop comes up to
you and asks, hey, can I talk to you for
a second, and you immediately book off in the other direction,
what's the first thing anyone would think? So when you
hear that these hugitive greaser boys ran away, you know

(46:21):
what I mean?

Speaker 2 (46:21):
But they can also testify that that how scared they were,
which which which helps prove that it wasn't in cold blood.
Right if they can say they were so scared they
didn't know what to do, they just they just accidentally
killed this guy, that they didn't know what to do
their accident.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
He pulled his knife out and he stabbed him.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
He said he didn't mean to give me to kill him, didn't.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Mean to kill him, But why were you stabbing him?

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Well, it probably didn't mean to me, It makes complete sense.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
Yeah, I definitely started that wrong because I don't think
it's a logic issue. Like the more we talk about it,
and I think I was wrong in saying that. For me,
it's more of just like this whole testimony relies on
cherry in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
But setting up her character thing right, like like how
like she she obviously she she wants to be more
free from that social life, but she feels an obligation
to to it's just to still participate and in those

(47:28):
things and like not you know, that's why she won't
talk to him at school.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Obviously she wants to. She likes hanging out.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
She thinks she's a good guy, but her social image
won't let her, So I think they've been setting that
up to.

Speaker 1 (47:41):
See the problem. I think what it is the problem
for me is and maybe I'm being devil's Devil's advocate here,
but I think the real issue comes in where she
her testimony is is super important and trying to figure
out the social thing right. And we were on the

(48:02):
boys side for sure, we want them to not have
to go to jail because we want them to know
it's it's self defense and whatever, and you can go
live with soda pop and everything's happy, Merry Christmas. Everything
works out. But again there's a lot of social influence
from the socials being the rich posh gang with a

(48:26):
lot of financial backing and other stuff. Public image is better,
reputation is better, all across the board. So having one girl,
in my opinion, be like, oh, yeah, the boys were
drunk that night and causing a ruckus with these guys
from like again completely outside perspective, like as a watcher,
one hundred percent want the boys to be free, but

(48:48):
as someone who is interested in like the legal aspect
of that, I just feel like, would that be convincing
enough for me to believe that these boys weren't murderers.
And I think no, on the basis of the public
image of these guys would be so bad. And again

(49:10):
it's established multiple times that people think they're sleazy dirt bags,
even though a lot of times they're not. And then
what changes is that they become heroes and they become
hero hero boys or whatever. But I feel like the
general public reception would be so bad to them as
a whole that they'd be like, oh, yeah, they did it,
and the fact that they were heroes at the time

(49:31):
by going into a burning building doesn't change the fact
that they killed someone. Does that make sense? Like, that's
why I'd be like, does that actually get them off
scott free? You know what I mean? Does that actually
do it?

Speaker 2 (49:42):
I see what you mean. Like if they didn't have
that hero aspect, if they had gone to trial without
without that happening, which.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Is what they were planning on doing anyways before the fire.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
So they might have had a harder time with it.
That's a good point.

Speaker 1 (49:56):
It's good. That's kind of my thing. It's like, it's like,
as general public reception and a court thing and financial thing,
everything would point to these boys being dirty killers. Everyone
in the greaser gang has been in prison at some
point or just got out of prison, they say, right,
like multiple times. Right, Even Dalli's like, I'm not used

(50:17):
to seeing my name in the paper when it's not
a wanted debt or alive. Right, So the cops know
him because of how many times he's been in jail.
So again, it's hard to deny, right, if you have
three people in a room and you're trying to figure
out who stole, like who stole an orange from the
grocery store, and you have someone who's been in jail
nineteen times and two people who've never been in jail.

(50:38):
You know what I mean, Not that the person who's
been in jail nineteen times did it, but a general
I'm sure if you ask people and a general consensus,
if you had an evidence leaning towards the person who's
been to jail nineteen times, maybe there's a record there,
and again not seeing the person who's never been to
jail didn't do anything wrong. But that's the analogy I'm
using with his socials here. You know what I mean,

(50:59):
They are things wrong, but the perception of them is
way better than it is of the greasers, So.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
I yeah, and I see what you mean, but I
and that's where you would hope that it wasn't a
jury trial. It was a jury trial, you suck. But
if it was just and I think it's just a
judge in this case, it's not a jury trial, so
so you would hope it would be a little more even.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
And the hero the hero stuff definitely helps for sure.
Public opinion right makes them look like not menaces to society,
so that that definitely helps. But that was kind of
just like the big thing for me was like my
only thing was like, okay, but they didn't kill this guy, right,
and this did happen, so it Yeah, but does it
really matter Nippicky Yeah, a hundred percent Nippi who cares. Anyways,

(51:43):
they go out for lunch whatever they're going to talk
about going back to trial and Stally picks them up,
go back, turn themselves in and there's a fire. So
basically Johnny runs in to go freez these kids that
are in a fire because there's like an elementary school
at the church where they were staying. And uh, he
runs in, he gets a bunch of burns, he breaks

(52:04):
his back or like destroices back in the fire. They
don't know if you'll ever walk again, and they get
turned into the authorities essentially, right, interesting stuff. None of
them like go to jail or anything like that. I
guess they say Ralph, they say, Ralph will go to
jail for what he did or like do whatever before
he after he's he's better. But nothing happens to uh

(52:26):
to pony boy.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
No, they say, like, well, because because he he didn't
have anything to do with it. Well, that's true.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Here's so. Here's the thing too, here's an other thing.
They say, like, oh, by the way, if he's if
he's proven associated and and Ralph is guilty, is guilty,
then he can't live with Sodopop anymore. And then he
has he has to go to actual different home. I
feel like general consensus, if you were just even remotely
linked up to a murdered a murder trial like this,

(52:56):
you're not saying with the boys, right, they would put
him in a home. There's no there's no way, right,
there's there's maybe, okay, maybe you can make an argument
it's the sixties. There's something that that happened. Nowadays, there's
absolutely no way, you know what I mean, if your
adopted brother killed someone while you were with your other
adopted brother. I mean adoptive in the literal sense of like,

(53:16):
you know what I mean, he's like taking care of them,
like as as their guardian, and Johnny is allowed to
have his guardians stay as as soda pop or whatever.
But no, Johnny is a pony boy is allowed to say, is.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Patrick's Bay's character?

Speaker 1 (53:37):
Right? But isn't so also the brother of that same dude.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yeah, but and pony boy would be the ones going
to a boy's house.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yeah, but they're allowed. Sorry, but they're allowed to stay together.
That is what I'm is basically what I'm saying at
the end of the day, they're allowed to stay together.
And and sorry I keep getting the names confused, but
you get what I'm saying. They're allowed. They're all very
unique though, which is awesome. They're allowed to stay together.
But again, if you were, if you were even remotely
testifying against any involvement in in a manslaughter or a

(54:09):
murder trial or anything like that, I just feel like
there's no way you'd be like right, especially when they
do establish multiple times that they're one incident away from
from that. Even if they get off innocent, that is
enough of an incident to be like, Okay, maybe you
should take a step back. I know you're innocent, but
maybe take a step back because if you keep getting
caught up in murder trials when you're fourteen, maybe that's

(54:32):
not a good look, you know, you know what I mean.
And so I just feel like again, doesn't take me
out of the movie, doesn't bug me at all. Yeah,
just something I noticed, you know what I mean. Anyways,
we do learn that Johnny dies and it hurts everything
a lot, and Dallas decides to he basically staff and

(54:58):
he kind of robbs some stores. He suicides bike off
I guess you could call it, and he dies as well,
and that hurts Johnny a lot. And then they do
testify hurts pony Boy. God. No, I know it's hard.
I know, it's so it's so tough, and like, I
know exactly who I'm talking about in my head, right,

(55:20):
I can picture the scene in their eyes and stuff
like that. But it's just yeah, really unique names. I
love the names. It's awesome. I love Soda Pop Curtis
or whatever his name is, and pony Boy. I think
that's that's awesome. Yeah, and then I guess the movie
kind of ends, we know that they get off on
trial and everything's fine and and they're not guilty, right,

(55:42):
and then their heroes because they saved the kids. And
there we go. I'll get through some facts here, Okay.
So in the hospital, the nurse that argues with Dally
about where they can find Johnny, she's kind of like,
kind of like, oh, no, you can't go in there
right now, now whatever, and then basically forces her. That's s. C. Hinton,

(56:03):
the writer of the book. Yeah, the writer of the book.
And she was very active in the filmmaking process. She
was on set pretty much every single day. She stayed
at the same hotel with the boys, like everything. She
became a mother figure to them. She they used to
call her mom too, like like on set too. Like

(56:24):
it was. It was pretty crazy, and she loved it.
She actually wrote the book when she was She started
writing it when she was fifteen, finished it when she
was sixteen, and it was published when she was seventeen. Yeah,
and so that's that's really awesome. And then obviously Francis
Workopola made his the movie adaptation of it, which was

(56:46):
pretty faithful. Some of the scenes were cut but were
released in the director's cut, which is what I watched?
You watch?

Speaker 2 (56:52):
I watched the normal.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah. I think it's called like the Complete Novel or
whatever it was. Yeah, I watched it. I read about it,
but I didn't I didn't have it, No, because it
was like I saw, it was an hour and thirty
one minutes, and then I realized when I was watching him,
mine was like an hour and fifty something, and I
was like, hold on a sucking google, what happened here?
But no, it was good. Do you have some phone facts?

(57:16):
But uh? Coppola wanted like Dal to stay in the night,
to stay one night in jail, basically get into a character,
and the actor playing Dal basically said, Nope, not gonna happen.
You spent a night in jail if you want it
is what he told. What he told him, Uh, funny,
fair enough, fair enough. And I'll read this phone fact

(57:37):
because I really, I really enjoyed this phone Factum that
I took the photos of Um. Okay, so it starts here.
The actors pulled pranks in the hotel where they stayed
while shooting the movie. Several years later, Tom Cruise was
introduced to someone who said he worked at the hotel
where Cruise and the rest of the cast stayed while
they shot this movie. The first thing Cruise said when

(57:58):
he heard that was I'm sorry because apparently there was
a lot of a lot of pranks being pulled on
which I will do this next factause I thought it
was hilarious. According to Ryder, I see, Hinton, the boys
caused quite a bit of trouble in the hotel where
they stayed. There's a lot of articles talking about how

(58:18):
much trouble they cost, so you can only imagine during
the three months of filming. One particular incident she recalled
in an interview was the night they filmed the fountain
scene where Bob is attempting to drown pony Boy. Later on,
like after shooting, the six boys jokingly mocked the scene
in the hotel's lobby fountain playfully trying to drown each other.

(58:42):
Hinton states the hotel had the fountain removed within weeks.
Isn't that funny from your hotel kids drowning each other? Dude?
Oh my god, man, yeah, and it's such a track scene.
Just think about all these kids were like trying to

(59:02):
drown each other too. Man. Oh boy, Now most of
them are kids and stuff for or young adults. How
old do you think Ralph Maccio was when he shot
this movie?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
Well, did you say he's sixteen?

Speaker 1 (59:12):
I'm like, that kid is not.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Thirteen?

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Well yeah, it's on the that's how you old know
the answer. Yeh yeah, yeah, okay, So his characters like
fifteen or sixteen. Right, Yeah, Ralph Maccio was twenty years
old when he shot this movie. He's famous for looking young.
Have you seen photos of him? The dude's like, what, yeah,
in his fifties or some shit, and he he looks
like he's in his thirties. Yeah, he was twenty years
old when he shot this film and pony Boy was fifteen,

(59:39):
I believe, and they had or I guess that would
have been almost howell, they had a little bit of
differences because they are five years apart. And so I
think there was like an interview roll where the guy
who played pony Boy was like, yeah, Ralph Moccio was
so was so uh like prepared and and professional. I

(01:00:00):
kept wanting to play pac Man with him or whatever,
and when he just wanted to read lines and stuff
like that. And so, yeah, he was twenty years old, crazy, right,
So I think Ralph Machio might have been probably one
of the most famous people at the time in my opinion, right,
because when he did to do Karate Kid, was that before?
I think it was. It must have It must have
been before. What I mean Ralph Maccio just looked yeah,

(01:00:22):
so one year later, Wow, okay, so this was this
a breakthrough role for him? Then? I think I think
it was. I mean maybe maybe karate I mean like yeah, yeah, anyways, Uh,
that's years old. Is pretty crazy, Like I said, he
looks so young. But yes, I love the lighting the

(01:00:47):
fight scene in the rain with the blue light behind
in the trees. Hella, awesome, really.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Cool lighting in the sunrise. Everyone of us that one
was just oh's parked.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
It did look a little green screen and I think
it was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
But that was overdone. And this is one of the
other things I wanted to talk about is that scene.
And I was watching or reading the Roger Eber and
he focused on it too much. But he's like, it
looks like a painting. And and the way he described
this whole film was a exercise in like like film

(01:01:25):
like look like like I can't remember the words, like
this whole film was a I'm gonna pull it up
and read the exactly, but.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
It was immediately I know exactly what you kind of mean.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
But I felt like he focused too much on it
because like.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
It was like that one scene but very orange. Yeah,
like almost like they were like in an African desert
like sunrise kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Sunset, like some sunset there. Pretty okay, there's not much life.
This is a quote from Roger Ebert. There's not much
life in this movie or spontaneity at the stylistic exercise.
The man who made The Godfather pictures and Apocalypse Now
is a great director. He ought to reserve these exercises
for the rehearsal halls of his fancy and get back
to making movies.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I can see you know what, though, I do see,
and this goes back to why I thought some of
the characters maybe lacked a little depth in a way,
and some of the lighting and stuff was so good,
Like like in that fight scene with like the blue light.
I thought that was awesome, right overdone, I mean maybe,
but I didn't care. I thought it was stylistic. I
thought it was cool. I thought it like it was awesome.

(01:02:41):
But yeah, I see, I see what he means, but
I do, I just see I think I kind of
I kind of disagree.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
But like that scene, there's the sun rise scene, and
those are about the it was way too orange, it
was it was, but those those are about the only
like style of the rest are pretty standards.

Speaker 1 (01:02:58):
Oklahoma, they're not getting sunrises like that, but.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Like still like the rest of the scenes are all
pretty like normal. Like I didn't I didn't think it
was that much of a stylistic.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Maybe they feel toned, maybe they feel way crazy because
everything else is toned down, not as in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
They stick out, but the way he describes it, it feels.

Speaker 1 (01:03:17):
More like, yeah, and I agree with I agree with
your point more on that, uh, set pieces and he's
just winning. The set pieces, in my opinion, were kind
of men. They're kind of men, and maybe Maggie disagrees,
but they show this church and it just feels kind

(01:03:39):
of lackluster because they only just like really want to
angle the whole time. Like there's not like any crazy
cool locations or anything like that. I just feel like
I just feel like nothing really blew me away, right,
nothing like was like I wasn't like, oh, that's an
awesome set piece. The biggest thing I liked was the
fight saying in the Park. I was like, Okay, that's cool,
that's awesome. I love the color, I love the rain, awesome.

(01:04:02):
But yeah, everything else just kind of was like, eh,
like it nothing like really made me think, like that
was awesome. The park looked good, like the fight Say
in the Park. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
The other thing I was going to talk about was
that the random like poetry and Gone with the Wind
and Vegan just feels so out of place. And I
get there trying to show that these boys have a
more sophisticated side and like they're not just these hoodloks, right,
But at the same time, its just they didn't they

(01:04:33):
didn't do enough of it, and they didn't build it enough.
It's like there's the sunrise scene and then reading the
book while they're alone, and then that's like it like
it just and then he there's a throwback to it
when he's when he's when he dies, like when Johnny dies.
But I just feel like they didn't build it enough,

(01:04:55):
and so it just felt out a place here.

Speaker 1 (01:04:58):
I'm true. Yeah, yeah, it does come out and it
does come out of left field, doesn't it. I'm trying
I'm trying to process that too. Yeah, it it does
almost feel like, Yeah, it's tough to say because I'm
trying to think how else they could have added a
more sophisticated side or these boys really like early nineteen

(01:05:21):
hundreds literature.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
But well, I mean, even even with the stuff that
they used, like fine, but just like I felt like
it need to be more, more subtle and more of
it instead of.

Speaker 1 (01:05:35):
Did you kind of throw it in your face? Yeah,
because he says stay golden and then and then the
other boy explains to everyone why he said stay golden. Yeah,
And I guess maybe it is a nice moment. But
or is it? Does that happen in a voiceover? I
think it's the oh, the letter, the letter? Yes, he
read again, it does kind of throw it in your

(01:05:56):
face a bit, But you know what I mean, maybe
now that's something we expect to be more subtle. But
I think in an eighties movie, you know what I mean,
maybe it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Eighties movies, like I don't know, I don't think that's
exactly that's not.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
I mean, look at The Godfather. There's a lot of
subtlety in that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
But then again, that's also the source material too, right,
Like that's partially the book.

Speaker 1 (01:06:18):
But maybe if we have read the book, we'd.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
Have this theme.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's something too. If it's in the
book and that's an element in the book, maybe it
just doesn't doesn't translate as well, yeah to the movie. Yeah,
and and so I yeah, I'm not going to say
much more on that because I I haven't read the book,
but I agree it does. It does feel a little
like in your face, maybe not out of place, but

(01:06:43):
in your face, doctor ste That's all I have to say.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Yeah, I feel like we talked a fair bit about it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Yeah, I can go into more detail, but I think
I think we've done a substantially long enough review. Yeah,
what do you read it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:59):
I've been thinking of about this like it's a it's
a good movie, and I enjoyed it. And the thing,
the thing that we haven't really talked about that I
really like about this is it doesn't feel like it
feels like I like how it feels darker and more
gritty than some movies at that time, like The Teen

(01:07:22):
you know, the teen angst dramas, like you know, like
West Side Story and whatnot. Like I feel like I
just like the comparison, I don't really like that, but
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:34):
It's just.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
It's just I like the grittiness of it, and it
feels a little bit more like a realistic like it
doesn't glorify it the same way. I mean it does,
but not exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
It is. It's dark. It feels like a tragedy, right,
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
But so overall it's good and I enjoyed that aspect
of it. But there are some things that that I
wish we were done by. But it's overall, it's a
solid movie and I think I'm gonna give it a
seven and a.

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Half seven out of ten for me, basically same reason,
seven out of ten. Yeah, and it's I don't think
it's I saw a lot of Google reviews it's like
this is the best movie ever made. I don't think
it's the best movie ever made, but I think it's
a It's a decent watch. And there's a lot of
stuff that's lacking in characters for me, but I think
the movie is simple enough with it. It's kind of

(01:08:27):
themes that it's like, you know what, Like I enjoyed
it and i'd watch it again. It's rewatchable in my opinion,
so seven out of ten. Yeah cool real, thank you
for watching the viewing Room. That was our I don't know.
We're getting pretty close episode thirty, aren't we.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
Hey, this one will be twenty eight Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
Okay, well, thank you very much for watching the viewing Room.
We do have an Instagram at the viewing Room Underscore
and a Patreon at Different Avenue Media. Thank you guys
so much for watching.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
Hello, and welcome to another Minecraft. Let's they I am Stampy, everybody.
I randomly remember it's Dampy the other day, I'm like,
and that guy's still making videos. I went and looked
at this channel for you guys, like ten million subs
and he's still making videos. That was like a part
of my childhood watching Dampy videos.

Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
Everybody, welcome to another lovely world business. Yeah,

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The Viewing Room Ep 28 - The Outsiders - Review and Analysis

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Viewing Room Ep 28 - The Outsiders - Review and Analysis