Ep. 15: We R/SLASH r/atheism

Isaac and Will own the atheists on Reddit, discuss the moral relativity of cereal as it is in accordance with our taste buds, debate the subjectivity of art, and prank call Will's brother.

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Well, hello there, hello there, welcome back. Good good w Ritz
as Mr Channel salutations in good evening. Ah, excuse me, William,
excuse Lovely to be back with you. Lovely to be back, Lovely to

(00:27):
be back after two weeks, Iknow, finally been a while. We're
back on schedule. We're very happyto be here and talking to you to
your listener. Unfortunately we don't havea guest on today. You know,
we kind of get the one wewanted, but but there are upsides to
that because it's just us now andhave us and it's not a bad thing.
Wegman's sparkling water, that's right,that's all we need. Well,

(00:52):
my freshing. We had the funidea to do something and kind of poke
fun at some atheists online didn't waitfun or at least, you know,
logically destroy yes, logic facts,don't care about your fitting snuff make British
Ben Shapiro, Ben Shapiro, Yeah, British. When is when is Ben

(01:15):
Shapiro into the multiverse, into theBen verse gonna come out? When's that
gonna come out? I don't know, but you know, the Daily Wire
has been doing a lot with like, I mean, entertainment now, so
let's been making movie Cooper is definitelyjust female Ben Shapiro from a different universe.
I mean, if Ben Shapiro weretrained now, we would look like
black Ben Shapiro. We need MexicanBen Shapiro, We need evil Ben Shapiro,

(01:37):
We need German Ben Shapiro, GermanBen uh uh uh what it's not
a different ethnicity, a different ethnicitynothing, Russian Ben Shapiro, Japanese Ben
Shapiro, Indian Ben Shapiro, RobotBen Shapiro. All right, we've been
talking a lot about Ben Shapiro's interestingenough. The Ben shapirou doesn't exactly have

(02:02):
everything right about God, right,but I wouldn't Yeah, I wouldn't say
so. At least he's not anatheist. Well, unlike some people online,
is being like say, a Muslimany better than being an atheist?
Well, because like they're both wrong. Well, at the end of the

(02:23):
day, right, at the endof the day, you are, you
are wrong. But at the sametime, if you're acknowledging at least that
there is a God from a reasonperspective, that's better because if you're an
atheist, then you're going against whatthe Bible says about how, you know,
it's pretty obvious to anyone looking outsidethat a God exists, and people
who don't believe that it's the Godof the Bible but another God. Of

(02:46):
course they're wrong about the nature ofGod, but they're not wrong about the
existence of God, which I thinkis you know, probably better than just
denying that God exists at all.It is a step in the right direction.
Like I think it would be,I don't know if it actually I
don't know if it'd be. Doyou think it would be easier to convince
a Muslim or an atheist to believesGod of the Bible? I mean,

(03:07):
well, like the thing is is, like being an atheist is pretty broad
because like you have your atheists whojust simply don't believe in God because like
they never had any They never Yeah, you're average person who never really had
a reason to believe in God.And then you have your like super like
extreme atheists who like Richard not notonly don't believe in God, but like

(03:29):
they have to like rant about iton Reddy all the time. Like I
don't think God exists, but I'mgoing to spend my whole life proving that
he doesn't. Anyway, are tryingto prove it, but you can't prove
a negative. As your dad saidearlier, Oh, don't bring my dad
into this. No, we shouldhave your dad on the podcast. Don't
tell him. You said that hereally wants to come on. Oh he
does. Yeah, well I shouldgo get him right now. Why not?

(03:51):
Why don't you want your dad onthe podcast because I don't need that
kind of stress in my life withmaybe someday, but we're not prepared for
us both our dads on the podcast. That's the same. We could get
your dad to talk about rocks.We could. My dad did did a
degree in geology and you know,went to Alaska, did some research on
glaciers and like he has like alittle book compiling all the data. It's

(04:14):
pretty interesting to look through. Weshould I should bring it and go through
it. And my dad could talkabout human resources managing. Yeah, but
anyway, well, anyway, youknow you talked about some atheists on Reddit
who have to spend their whole livesproving that God doesn't exist or trying to
know. We're continuing this exploring Reddittrend on this podcast because it's just fun

(04:36):
to look through, yeah and seewhat people are saying. And you know,
sometimes when we don't have ideas forthe podcast, we can just go
back to reach. We never startshave ideas for the podcast. We just
wing it the entire time. Imean, there is some truth in that,
there is not some truth in that. But you know, you don't
always joke, bro. You don'tneed to take me seriously all the time.

(04:57):
Okay, yeah, I know,don't need to be anyway, no
need to be. Last time,last episode, we went on our slash
m I the a hole. Thisweek and this week addition this week's edition
of the w Ritz Podcast versus Reddit, we're going on our slash atheism.
Next week. I think we shoulddo our slash anti natalism or maybe even

(05:18):
later in this episode if we havetime. We'll see. Because I thinks
are interesting people. I think weshould keep it to one subreddit per episode.
Alright, alright, fine, fine, I'm just saying we don't want
too much Reddit in our lives.That's bad for you. Well yeah,
I mean, yeah, don't Reddit. Don't spend all day on Reddit.
And I'm looking at you, JP. Wow. Way to call him out

(05:40):
like that. Reddit is like,you know, it's like cake. It's
It's fine if you have like onepiece, but if you just eat two
entire cakes, well you're going tobecome the cake. You're going to become
the Reddit user. I mean,fair enough. Anyway, let's let's stop
diddally dallying yes, dawdling yes,and get to this first post we found,

(06:01):
which is by Worried Schedule one twentyfour, who says, even if
God exists, I would still notworship him. And here's what he has
to say. I live in avery religious country and also extremely poor.
I see and hear so much miseryevery day. Forget about adults. I
don't know what a newborn baby didto deserve such suffering existence. Will a

(06:24):
baby born in a rich country isthriving? How do they reconcile? This
is beyond me? So that's soessentially the premise of the argument is here.
Here is I don't if there isa God, he must be bad,
so I don't want to believe inhim. Yeah, basically, I
mean it's a common argument to say, why would it? Yeah, why
would a god who is supposed tobe, you know, good natured,

(06:46):
allows so much suffering and misery inthe world. I think that this atheist
is obviously wrong, but he's ina way onto something because he's again proving
a Christian view of God is theonly correct one. Because if you look
at ancient cultures like the Greeks andthe Romans, they worshiped their gods,
but their gods were jerks. Likethey were. Zeus was always sleeping around.

(07:10):
You're sleeping around. He was justbeing vengeful. Whenever he wanted to.
He would turn people. He wouldcurse people to do it with you
know, bulls or is that Hara? It was one one of them.
It was one of them. Theirrelationship drama is something else. Basically,
the gods in the ancient times werejust glorified human jerks, you know.
And if your god is like that, then sure you don't want to worship

(07:33):
him, right, Like, what'sthe point of the Greeks worshiping Zeus if
he's a jerk? What's the pointof the Romans worship worshiping because they're afraid
of what the gods will do tothem if they won't. Right, And
you may, and you may worshipthe god anyway, but that doesn't mean
that you want to. You're leftat the same situation as this user here,
because I guarantee you that I wouldnot want to worship a God who

(07:56):
I believed was vengeful and wrathful allthe time. And you know, obviously
there is a component of wrath andvengeance on God, but it's always justified,
right, Our God is always just, and he executes his wrath justly
exactly so you know, well,like, so to pick out something else

(08:18):
he said here, he was talkingabout like a newborn baby, like they
didn't do anything to deserve the suffering. Like how do we we as Christians
like explain that to somebody, likeexplain why maybe a newborn baby and like
a poor country, like you said, it has to like go through so
much suffering even though he didn't doanything wrong. Yeah, I think the
end, at the end of theday, the answer is that God is
not to blame for the babies beingborn into less than ideal circumstances. If

(08:43):
you go back to the garden,we're to blame for, you know,
screwing it all up. If yougo back to the founding of certain countries,
there are leaders and people who madebad decisions, like you know,
the French Revolution for example, FrancesAs it turns out they've turned out into
an okay nation now. But Iwould say that the French Revolution was a
decision on the part of the Frenchpeople, and now they're going to have
to live with the repercussions of havinga culture that is very violent whenever they're

(09:05):
provoked. And to blame God foreverything. I just I do not feel
that it's correct to say that Godis responsible for every bad thing that happens.
Yeah, I think that seman responsibilityreally plays a part in a lot
of thelatery that we see. Godhas set up natural consequences to everything,

(09:26):
right, Like if you look ata lot of the commandments in the Bible,
like a lot of them like arejust like generally really good for you,
good for your personal health, liketo follow like fasting, Like that's
really good for you if you likefollow through with that. Like it's not
some pointless command that God is justlike, Hey, do this because I
want you to show that you loveme. It's like, do this because

(09:46):
I know it's good for you.And if you go against the commandments,
you're gonna there's gonna be a naturalconsequence to you that. Yeah, And
like sometimes if you go far enoughagainst him, those consequences will affect other
people, right, And it saysin the Ye, well, I am
the God who visits generation pond generation. I can't recall the exact it's in
the commandments, but yeah, basicallysays I visit generation upon generation of those

(10:09):
you hate me. And God hasset up natural consequences that happen even to
future generations, even people who seeminglydon't deserve. And if we bring that
in, you know, we canwe can make the case that the baby
doesn't deserve to be born into poverty. We can also make the case that
the rich child, excuse me,doesn't deserve to be born into splendor,

(10:30):
right because the baby itself didn't doanything to cause its own poverty, and
the baby itself didn't do anything tocause its own splendor exactly. It really
all depends on the actions of peoplewho came before it. And if you
know, you can go back andback and back and back and back and
far enough. Yeah. So thebottom line is that God is good,

(10:50):
but even good people sometimes have todiscipline their children. Exact, good people
have to uh let natural consequences happen, even if they could stop. There
are natural consequences to what the USis doing right now that I as a
secularly you know, like from asecular standpoint, I would consider myself a
moral person. It doesn't mean I'mperfect, doesn't mean I'm holy, doesn't

(11:11):
mean I'm sinless, doesn't mean anyof those things. Yep. But even
I, as I guess what Iwould say is a good decent person.
I haven't committed any massive crimes.I couldn't stop the US from enduring natural
consequences of its actions, even ifI wanted to write exactly, Yeah,
so it's like every bad decision thegovernment makes, it's gonna like drizzle down
and affect us. Right. No, we didn't do anything to make that

(11:35):
bad thing happen, right right anyway, anyway, is there anything more you
want to say about that post?Or should we move on to Well?
Also, like I think if wewere like talking to this guy right here,
his natural next argument like I don'twant to stromn him, but like
you hear this a lot, islike, well you can you hear atheists
argument all the time? You canstart to pick up on what they're gonna
say. Yeah, even he wouldhe would probably say something along the lines

(11:56):
of if even if like you're rightthat, you know, are the bad
things that happen to us are ourown fault. But like, why would
God allow that to happen to us? Why we God even like good people?
Like you know, you hear thisall the time. Why did good
bad things happen to good people?Right? And ultimately I think this is
you know, a common answer,that common rebuttal at Christians give, and

(12:20):
that's you know, God wants usto choose him, you know, he
want he wants us to, like, in our darkest moments go to him,
Like He's like, if we didn'thave suffering, we wouldn't understand why
we need God. We wouldn't trulyunderstand that. So suffering teaches us that,

(12:41):
hey, we're human where you know, we're flawed. We're not capable
of saving ourselves. We're not capableof pulling ourselves out of darkness. We
need to go to God to findthat. I'm sure God does not enjoy
allowing bad things happening to his people, but you know, he knows it's
what's best for us. Of theday, the atheist and refusing to believe

(13:01):
in God is choosing the bad thingfor himself. Yeah, he's choosing the
worst thing possible for himself. Ithink that you know, if you're going
to say that if God is allpowerful, then why doesn't he stop bad
things from happening? There are allthere there are two roads you can go
down when asking that. You caneither deny the all powerful authority of God,
or you can say that God doessometimes allow bad things to happen for

(13:24):
the greater good, and oftentimes weare the reason why those bad things happen.
Right, So those those I thinkthose are really the two main pathways
you can go down. If youdon't, if you don't like that argument,
then well I don't know what elseto do for you, because I
mean, at a certain point youhave to realize that people with an atheist
mindset like the Bible. It saysin the Bible that work like great theology,

(13:48):
the truth of God's word, itis foolishness to the unbeliever. So
at some point you have to realizethat you can argue all you want,
you can convince all you want,but it's going to take an act of
God to change the person exactly.It's yeah, it all depends on the
Holy Spirit ultimately, whether he'll entertheir heart or not, which I think
that the Holy Spirit is more thanready to save save people. But at

(14:11):
the end of the day, atheistslike that on Reddit, they're choosing their
own demise. Ye. Anyway,we got any more posts? Sure,
I'm sure we can find another one. This is popular subreddit. All right,
what's there was another one you wantedto discuss? What was that other
one? I believe it was atheists? If you were once religious, why
did you become atheists? I feellike this would be an interesting question discussed,

(14:33):
maybe maybe to place even some ofthe blame on the modern church,
because the modern church, I thinkit does a very bad job of like
giving us reasons why we believe certainthings. Like I'm not saying that you
know, the church that you andI go to, or the church that
you know you listener, I'm justsaying the church as a whole. I
think that we've kind of failed atgiving reasons for why we believe what we

(14:54):
believe, and we're just like,well, we believe it, so let's
go to church on Sunday and thenlive however we want for the rest of
the week. So all right,I found it. Yep, I found
the post you were looking at.All right, atheist, If you were
religious, what made you stop believing? And all right, then we gotta
go through to see what comments orpeople are. Yeah, find the good

(15:16):
comments. And I didn't year Itspretty long, but you know I can
go go through it. Yeah,go ahead, one, All right.
I brought up religious, and aslong as I can remember, approximately three
years old, parts of it nevermade sense or didn't align with my indiate
sense of ethics. All right,right there, right there, we have
a problem, don't we His innatesense of parts of it didn't. So

(15:37):
you're saying that your your personal senseof morality and ethics is is wrong,
more true, more true, moretrue than the parts outlined in the Bible.
Well, especially as a little kid, it's like, what is your
sense of morality and ethics? It'sjust whatever has been told to you.

(15:58):
It's yeah, well, yeah,nature versus there are parts of it which
are like you desire naturally to doin there are parts of it that you're
raised to believe. And I wouldsay that you know people who think that
their their moral compass is wrong?Who are no people who give all of
their authority to a moral comp Well, moral compasses can be changed, right,

(16:21):
God did give us a conscience,and so either I think what's either
happening here is that this atheist isgrew up in a religion that doesn't preach
the truth and that didn't fit hisGod given conscience, or he was raised
in a religion that preaches the truthand he his conscience was set up wrongly
by his parents or whoever right hewas. You know, his own sense

(16:42):
of morality was, as it turnsout, not correct. And I think
the term moral compass is very fittingbecause like think of an like an actual
genuine compass, like a magnetic compass. Yeah, like it'll it'll point you
in the right direction, but likeit can be easily skewed off you to
other magnetic fields on the Earth.It's like if you're near I don't know,

(17:03):
like something I don't know, abig magnet, I don't know,
it'll it won't point nor true northanymore. It'll point towards that because it's
drawn more towards that than it istowards the north pole. So it can
point you in the right direction,but like it can be easily skewed off.
So like you can't rely on yourown understanding of morality and ethics,
I mean not lean not on yourown understanding, but trust in the Lord

(17:25):
and he will sustain you, rightexactly. Yeah, to you know,
give you the eyes you need somebodyto A compass can point you in the
right direction, but you need somebodyto guide you to where you need to
go ultimately, right. And whatthis atheist is doing is basically saying,
well, instead of seeing, youknow, finding someone who can guide me,
I'm just going to listen to themoral compass and throw away someone who
can guide me, right exactly.Yeah. So anyway, does it themselves?

(17:45):
Does the post go on? Itdoes go along. The older I
got, the more what I wasbeing told did it makes sense? And
the more dissatisfying the responses to myquestion Scott, and the more offended and
defensive slash defensive they got up myquestions. It wasn't long until I was
told my questions were in fact asin and of themselves and my soul were
in danger of hell. As soonas I was made old enough to realize

(18:07):
my parents were capable of mistakes andthe religious didn't have the answers, I
started searching for better answers. Ifound them. After that, it was
pretty easy to dismiss religion as ridiculousat best and nefarious at worst. Whoa
okay claims? Okay, okay.Interestingly enough, what this does follow a
very logical train of thought. Okay, so imagine, right, Imagine if

(18:32):
I went to you know, ifyou and I were going to church one
day. And the thing about Sundayschool teachers is they're always willing to answer
any questions, or at least theysay that they are right, at least
the ones at are church. Atthe end of the lesson. It's always
like, well, do you haveany questions? And usually students don't.
When they do, Sunday school teachersare willing to answer them. And if

(18:55):
it's true that, imagine going toyour Sunday school teacher or your mentor in
life, people who have you've beentold to respect. Imagine going as a
young child you're still trying to figurethings out, or even into the teenagers,
when you're really trying to figure thingsout, and instead of being met
with good answers to your questions,people start getting frustrated and saying, oh,

(19:15):
shut up, you're going to hell. Yeah, like can you I
mean, there is a sense inwhich you can blame this atheist for ignoring
the truth, now, but canyou ignore him for feeling slighted by the
church. Yeah, it's really thecase. Yeah, that's a very like
bad move on. Like whoever hewas talking to his part, because like
they clearly weren't like giving him likethe proper attention and like putting in the

(19:36):
necessary work to like like find outthe answers to his questions, because like
that asking questions is something like everyeverybody does. Like everybody's going to go
through that. Everybody's nobody's gonna likeread the entire Bible and have a perfect
understanding of it. They need somehelp to understand parts of it. Yeah,
and so and if you ask somebodywho supposedly has more knowledge than you
and they just say the question,it's a sin. You're the question is

(20:02):
a sin. You stop, yougo to hell. Like even though like
I don't agree with his final judgment, like I don't, Yeah, well
it's hard for me. It's hardnot to have a little sympathy for them.
I mean, if someone says,you know, shut up, stop
asking questions, You're going to hell. It not only shows that they don't
care about answering your questions. Italso will make you think that they don't
actually have the answers right exactly,because if I don't know about you,

(20:22):
but when I get asked a question, I usually want to answer it if
I have the right answer, ifI have an answer that I actually believe
in, as churches professed to believein the answers of life biggest questions.
So you know, again, Idon't agree with the final judgment this guy
made, like you said, butI think that he does follow a somewhat
logical train of thought here, becausethe church can be off putting to certain

(20:48):
people as soon as they hit thequestion stage. If they don't have people
who are willing to answer those questions, the church can be off putting.
Another problem is that this poster quicklybecame very close minded to the idea of
their being a God right after thatone bad experience. I mean, if
you go to one church, thereare millions of other churches that will have
that will have the answer to yourquestions and will be willing to guide you

(21:11):
in the way that is right.And it is his fault for hardening his
heart, I would agree. AndI think some advice to people out there
is if you don't know the answerto a question, be honest about it.
Just say you don't know, right, and like, well, if
you're like an atheist, asked youa question and you don't know the answer,
just say I don't know, butI will look into it and get

(21:33):
back to you on that, orjust you know, there are some questions
that I truly believe we will notknow the perfect answer to in this life,
and it's okay to just trust God. Like if someone asked me,
so, you know, if someoneasked me this really complex question about the
Trinity and how it all works together, and blah blah blah blah, I'm
just I don't know. Yeah,I'm going to trust God has you know,

(21:53):
the divine order of things worked out. I'm going to trust that God.
The theology of the Trinity is moreperfect than I could ever explain.
And the only reason why I can'texplain it to you is because I'm me.
I'm not I'm not God, iam not I am I'm merely human,
you know, yep? M Sodo we have any other comments on

(22:17):
that post and other comments? Here'sa shorter one. Parts of it never
made sense what I was told inchurch. If you don't know what to
believe, just believe anyway. Thenwhen you go to heaven, Jesus will
clear everything up. He's saying,that's what he was told. There are
certain very niche topics that that mightbe true about. Like, there's certain

(22:41):
like I said, there are certainquestions we might not know what to think,
and we should trust anyway. Yeah, but the Bible has given us
plenty of knowledge so that we knowwhat is true, right exactly, Like
We're not gonna understand everything about God'slike nature or like the nature of the
Trinity, but like the important stuff, like the major stuff that like we
need to know it has been answeredin the Bible. Right. He gave

(23:03):
us the Bible, and then hegave us a whole world that illustrates the
truth of the Bible. I mean, yeah, your dad could say,
you look at the old rocks.It's going to prove the Bible is exactly.
We should we should get my dadon the podcast and talk exactly about
that, you know, we shoulddo that. He didn't teach it.
He did teach Sunday School at once, and like talked about how science science
actually proves the EASi incest of God. Well, I don't think. I

(23:23):
don't think you were there for that. I think you're probably wasn't you were
in the Little Kids, Little KidsSunday School. Shush, what a shame.
I was performing at higher levels thanyou when I was five. Okay,
I might promise you that might betrue. Now I don't actually know.
I don't actually know. Uh,do you have anything more about it?

(23:45):
Get to on our slash eighthisn't.We are approaching the thirty minute mark
here, so we might want toget we might want to move on to
our serial tier list. And inthe second yeah, I don't know.
Let's there was another one that Iwanted to look at. I don't know
if I want to. I don'tknow if it'll be something we can respond
to. But I couldn't hurt.I didn't. I didn't look at the
post. I just saw the title. I wanted to say something about it,

(24:07):
and I can't find it all right, Isaac's Stall. Hey, have
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(24:30):
Wegman's is the best drink. Aside, of course from the w Ritz podcast
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All right, here's something I wantto briefly want to address just me
personally. I'm not going to readthe entire post because it's like six paragraphs
and we don't we all right,WHOA, Yeah, we're pretty short on

(24:52):
time, but well, I meanwe can read the first we can go
for as long as we want.Well, we have time to sat to
do early anyway. So the titleof this post says, I don't want
to believe in God. I thinkby definition I would be considered an agnostic
atheist, but a large part ofme is always sort of hoped for some
kind of proof that no God exists. So you're so like, he's so

(25:15):
he believes that there could be aGod, but he wants there somebody to
prove to him that no God exists. Well, and I'm sure he gives
his reasons for that later in thepost, but I just want to say
something. This is something I've thoughtabout before and something I want to say
personally about myself. Is like sayhypothetically that there was no God hypothetically and

(25:37):
like I was still a Christian,but like say that, like I was
wrong in my Christian beliefs, andlike there was a way of some like
crazy way for somebody to prove tome that there was no God. I
would not want them to do that. Like even if my beliefs were wrong,
I would still not want somebody totell me, like prove to me

(25:57):
and that there isn't a God,because like being a Christian and like believing
in God has like been the drivingforce throughout my life and like it's the
reason for my happiness and like thereason for everything I do. And like
I've thought about this before. IfI didn't believe in God, I would
be miserable because like I've I've liketeetered on, like I've teetered on like

(26:18):
depression and stuff, like I thinkeverybody does yah to an extent, and
I think I would have gone downa dark path of depression if like I
didn't have like that that like myChristian belief in God and my faith in
Jesus Christ. It's like tethering me, you know, away from that.
Yeah, well, as soon asyou become an atheist, your life does
lose purpose exactly. You do realizethat your only purpose as an atheist is

(26:41):
to prove that God doesn't exist andto keep fooling yourself essentially exactly, it's
really all you're going to be doingwith your life. And I can say
that because I've seen atheists do it, you know. And it's like,
I mean, I don't think thereis a possibility that God doesn't exist in
any hypothetical situation. Even if youwere to say, you know that the
Gospel is not true, you wouldstill have to acknowledge that there was a

(27:03):
creator of this world. Just sciencepoints to that. But I am extremely
happy that I am, you know, in Christ, and that I believe
in that and even like as yousaid, hypothetically, even if none of
it were true, it would stillbe true that my life would be vastly
improved by it, right, mAnd I you know, it's just it's

(27:29):
impossible to imagine trying to prove somethingas miserable as atheism really is what I'm
getting, because what happens when youlike, say, you do convince it
Christian that you know there is noGod? Like, what have you done
to that person's life? Yeah,like they you've now like removed like their
ultimately driving force of purpose from theirlife. I have to imagine that,

(27:49):
like, what are they gonna do? What? Like, honestly, like,
what what would you do if,like somebody proved to you, without
like a shadow of a doubt,that there was no God? What would
be like? What would you endup doing? I think I'd probably start
off being miserable because I would realizethat obviously, you know, take this
with a grand fault, but Ihad realized that everything that I'd ever ever

(28:11):
been told in life isn't true.I would have to re orient my moral
compass entirely because none of what Ihad based my entire life and my entire
outlook and my perspective and my goalson would no longer exist in my mind.
And I really think that proving tosomeone who believes in God that there
is no God, I think that'sa miserable thing to do. I think

(28:32):
that is a wicked thing to do. Yeah, because you take away man's
chief end m you know, Yeah, could put it better better myself kind
of said it better myself. Sorry. Well, I've been a little goofy
with words today. I mean too, I've I've tried reading a couple of

(28:53):
things to you for podcast notes,and my mouth just does not want to
read today. It's just one ofthose days. I hope our lovely listeners
up. Everybody sucks everything is.I think that's a good I think that's
a good place to end the firstsegment. There, Yes, I do
think so as well. And inthe second segment, everyone, it's time

(29:15):
for us to rate some serials.I'm looking for turning into something no way
less lighthearted. This is way moreserious actually, Okay, true, okay,
true. We're gonna have some heftydebates on cereal. Yes, and
then coming up in the third second, we're going to talk about why men
aren't happy as well as the questionis our subjective. Maybe I don't know
if we'll have enough time for that, but we'll see. We have as

(29:37):
much time as we want to take. No, we don't have to try
to get home. I have toleave at a certain point. Yeah,
so maybe maybe all right, welcomeback people, And today I'm thinking we're

(29:59):
gonna risk breaking up over this,breaking up the podcast, because we're about
to do one of the most dangerousthings known to man. At the end
of known to destroy friendships, turningfriends into enemies. At the end of
this segment, there's a fifty fiftychance the podcast will even exist anymore,
and there's an even greater chance thatone of us will be dead. That's

(30:19):
right, because the other one murderedthe other one whoa probably didn't need to
say that. You probably all gotthe picture. But well, I'm a
little scared of doing this now.Will we're doing the serial tier list now
we're not. We can't. Wehaven't figured out how to like stream the
actual recording of us making the tierlist to you guys, but like we'll

(30:45):
we'll post the picture of the finalproduct or like as a community post.
Anyway, let's let's quickly go throughthe tiers. So you know, if
you're listening on Spotify or Apple podcasts, go to go to our YouTube channel.
It's w RITZ Podcasts. If youwant to see the photo of the
final tier, yeah, it'll bein community posts. Let's go through our
Let's go through our what's the wordthe different tiers, the different tiers you

(31:07):
announce them one than I'll do one. Okay, Well, we'll start with
the top tier Mana from Heaven.Oh yes, there's gonna be a theme
to the tiers. And then that'slike the best one is the best if
it's if it's almost the best cereal, like you know, very close,
We'll do Manna from the Clouds,really good cereal but not quite the best,

(31:29):
right, and then next we'll haveyou know cereal that's just that's just
all right, like it's not it'snot your favorite, but like if you
like you really wanted cereal and that'swe'll have no better choice, you would
be pretty content with you you'd behappy to see it at the free Hotel
Continental breakfast and would that is manmanna from Big Cereal, you know,
like Big Pharma, Big Cereal forthe Funny House. Uh, And then

(31:52):
if you know you would eat itif you're really needing cereal, right,
like you just have this and youhave no other choice, Like there's no
other serial, Like you're at yourgrand this this has happened to me,
Like you're at your grandparents house andyou see one of these cereals and you're
like, ah, I don't thinkit's that good, but I guess I'll
eat it because I don't want tobother making myself an egg. Yeah,

(32:13):
Manna from the grocery store yep.And then our final bottoms here is like
cereal that you would never touch againafter you had it once. You absolutely
loathed eating it, and you probablydidn't even finish it. You you absolutely
hate it and if you ever seeit again, it'll trigger some PTSD inside
of you. And that is you'llmana from HD double hockey sticks, that's

(32:36):
right. And then there's we don'tswear in this, well, so we
spill it out. I mean,you know, it's fine. Last podcast.
Yeah, and then if we've neverhad it, we're just gonna say
never had. We're just gonna putit in the never head. But just
so you know, we are probablygoing to skip over a lot of these
because there are so many cereals.We've clicked on the tear list that said
American Cereal and there's a a goodthird of the cereal on there I don't

(32:58):
I've never even seen before. Theproblem is there are also like multiple editions
of like Cereal Life, and Ican't tell what each one is. So
you have the laptop over there soyou can get a closer look. I
don't actually because it's not mirrored thescreens and mirror anyway, should we get
started, yes, of course,my good sir. All right, First
up, we have honeycomb. Okay, I've never actually had honeycoms. I

(33:22):
think I had like once. Itwas okay, but it tasted like the
mass manufactured honey stuff, you know. Okay, so you decide where it
goes. I'm going to say,manna from the grocery store, like I
would eat it, click and drag. I know, I know I was
doing that. It just wasn't working. Oh it's it's okay. I would
eat it if it was at Grandma's. But like, you know, what

(33:42):
are those next two? Are thoselike to the Halloween only Yeah, we're
gonna skip those. The Wolf andthe Mummy. I like I remember,
like as growing up, it wasalways like a big thing for me to
get those like Halloween exclusive, likethose October store cereals, like I love
those. I never even like Iremember like advertisements for the Wolf and the
Mummy ones and I never found them. I never even knew they existed.

(34:05):
I gotta be honest, really,Yeah, like they're they're everywhere in the
grocery store, or they used tobe. Like everyone. Let's skip down
to brand flakes. Brand flakes.I don't know if I've ever had them.
I've had a raisin brand, I'venever had just brand flakes. They
probably aren't very good at brand flakes. Sounds like they belong in manna from
Double hockey Sticks. All right,sorry, you can put it there.

(34:27):
Tricks tricks, classic tricks. I'llsay. Mmm, let's say manna from
Bike Cereal. I would agree thatit's like it's it's good, but it's
not the best fruit flavored cereal.You can get better options like fruit loops.
Yeah, yeah, I know whereI'm putting that. Kicks, kicks,
never had kicks. All right,I've never had the weird green cheerio

(34:52):
box. What are they? Howare they? Those are just cheerios right
or something? I can't know?Those aren't like I can't either. Let
me get a close. I'll beright back. All right, Well it's
gone row guys. Oh there areapples apple I've never had, never had.
Pretty good. I would put themin manna from Big Cereal as well.

(35:15):
Okay, not the best, butthey're they're pretty good. All right,
checks, I believe this is theslate you cinnama. Did you skip
over that honey one? I did? Do we want to go over that
one? I don't know what thathoney bunches of oats, frosted honey bunches
of Oh that's pretty good actually,Okay, So from go Manna from Big
Cereal as well. All right,I have a feeling mana from Big Cereal

(35:36):
that's going to have a lot ofserious in it. Well, I'm not.
I'm the biggest fan of cereal ingeneral, to be honest. Yeah,
okay. Next we have cinnamon checkscinema. I don't eat checks that
much either. Cinnamon checks probably wouldbe good. I'm gonna say Manna from
the Clouds because I have had itbefore and it is pretty good. It's
just it's not the best plain checksrice rice checks actually, which is basically

(35:57):
just plain checks rice checks. Iwould say mana from the grocery store.
Okay, have you had all thesedifferent types of checks? No, but
I have had chocolate checks. Chocolatethat's probably really good. It's it's okay,
I'm gonna put it. Chocolate cerealis so good. I'd say Manna
from the clouds. It's not thebest chocolate cereal by any stretch of the

(36:19):
imagine. Definitely not, But likechocolate cereal in general, it's just godd
Yeah, all right, what doyou want to do next? I mean,
we can skip through all the checksto yah, there are so many
checks. There's a lot of differentcheckses. It could be here all day
and we have other discussions. Wewant to get cheerios. That's not honeynut
cheerios, right, I think it'sbanana banana cheerios. I could be totally
never had banana cheerios. That soundslike it would be good. It looks

(36:44):
like manna from Big Cereal type thing, just because flavoring stuff with bananas doesn't
sound like it would be a verygood idea if it's mass producing Mary there.
I've had Booberry before. Where iswhere's Booberry? You see the little
ghosty guy there? Oh yeah,they're Booberry. Never had it. I've
had it my favorite character of thoseHalloween cereals, but probably uh no,

(37:06):
the second best. I would putit in Manna from Big Cereal. Okay,
you know it's you know, alittle blueberry flavored with marshmallows. Yeah,
that sounds kind of weird. It'sgood. It's good, though.
We got oreo os oreo os.I've had those ones because I was just
too interesting. All right, now, they sound like they'd be really good,
but are they They could be alot better. Okay, So like

(37:28):
manna from the grocery store, I'llgo, yeah, manna from the grocery
store. Okay, we have thehoneymade s'mores cereal. I've had that,
it's good. I'd go manna fromBig Cereal. Okay, it's like I
mean, they kind of just mixlike a bunch of different cereals into like
one, and it's all right,but like they are better ones. Okay,

(37:52):
there's a lot of like obscure cerealson here, right, Uh do
you want to go chocolate cheios?Sure those are really good. That's the
manna from the clouds, I wouldagree. Yes. Oh, it hasn't
been much contention here. I'm surewhen we get to like the bigger names
will start arguing over which. Bythe way, there are so many cheerios

(38:12):
and so many checks, which iswe're we have to skip over a lot
of them. So many coco pebbles. Those are so good. Manna from
Heaven. Do you agree, haveyou? I would say so, yeah,
Mana from Heaven. They're so good, Chris, have you ever had
that? Yes? Those are probablyMana from the clouds, right man from
Yeah, I would agree. They'rereally good. Chocola I've had that best

(38:34):
of like the Halloween exclusive Cerealsvenors.Not the best chocolate cereal, but still
really good. Okay, okay,we have our first big name here.
Oh, we got all the differenttoast crunch. We have original cinnamon toast
crunch, Mana from Heaven, Mannafrom Heaven. Amen, brother cinamonnch crunch
is so good. We have chocolatecinnamon toast crunch. I think Mana from

(38:57):
Heaven as well. Have you everhad it? I think I haven't had
it's it's really good. I don'tremember perfectly. You got the other toast
crunches there, Yes, you gotthe ones. You get the French toast
ones and I don't know that.Don't we have the peanut Is there a
peanut butter one? Is that whatthat last one is? Maybe? I
can't read Yeah this, I meansorry about that? I would Oh,

(39:21):
I can, I can zoom in? I was trying to zoom in helpful.
I was trying to zoom in,but it wouldn't work, and now
I can't. Okay, sugar cookietoast crunch. I've never had sugar cookie
toast crunch, have you No,have you had French toast crunch? Yeah,
I've had French toast. That soundslike it would be really good.
Manna from the Clouds. Not asgood as the original or the chocolate one,

(39:42):
but still really good. Okay,zoom back out now I have to
zoom back out just to put itin the correct all right, Okay,
what else? I think We're donewith a Simon toast crunch. I've had
the truro one the Men from theClouds as well. All right, what
else do we got here? Let'smove on a little bit. We have

(40:04):
all these weird guerrilla munch choco chimps. These are like the organic health nut
cereals for the mom that only makesgrass fed cupcakes. You know, you
know those moms like no offense toany of them, but that's just something
that they would buy. Okay,we have a controversial one here where that
let's let's go with the original raisinbrand, the original Oh this is this

(40:32):
is a hard one. I'm notgonna lie, all right, I don't
know people might hate me for this. I'm gonna say it Mana from the
grocery store. Okay, well,I would have to say Manna from the
Clouds raisin brand. You think it'sreally that good? Not on its own?
Are we are we doing on itsown? Or when you had stuff
to it? Because on its own? Okay, then it's only manna from

(40:54):
the grocery store. Okay, Iwould agree, it's just when I had
a bunch of stuff to it thatmakes it taste to me. But understand,
I think like any like plain likeplain ish tasting cereal, you can
just be really creative with I don'tget really good. Yeah, uh okay.
Let's see Rice Crispy just classic riceKrispies on its own. Yeah,

(41:16):
they're really bland from the grocery store. Like I don't hate them, but
like, but like you gotta addlike fruit or like you know, something
else to them. And Crispy treessomething like that. Cocoa Crispies though,
right there are really good Manna fromthe Clouds. I'd say all the peanut
butter and chocolate ones are getting reallyhigh ranking. Chocolate cereal is just so

(41:39):
good. I know, I know, I know. Oh, let's do
frosted flakes. Okay, this this, this might be a hot take.
Bottom tier, bottom tier. Ido not like frosted flakes. Okay,
I had them once, but Idon't remember. Let's say I'll agree with

(42:01):
because here's the thing, Because Tonythe Tiger is annoying. Okay, I
think Tony the Tiger is school.He's the best part of frost the flakes.
But like, they get soggy soquickly. It's like you have to
like eat them in like under aminute for them to be good. Okay,
And like even when you do likeeat them, when they're still like

(42:21):
crispy and like not soggy, it'sit's all right at best. Yeah,
but it gets soggy so quickly thatlike if you don't eat it in like
two minutes, you're just gonna beeating a bunch of like gruel basically,
Okay, I got you. Peoplemight hit me for that. Oh I'm
not all right. We have avery controversial one here. Well, this
is we're getting into territory where Imight be a little offended at you if

(42:43):
you disagree with me. Lucky Charmstop tier. Oh no, no,
no, no, no, nono no, I disagree, man.
Where the little marshmallows is what getsme. It's like you're eating marshmallows in
your breakfast cereal. Well there's tonsof cereal that has marsh, wasn't it.
I don't know, man, thelucky charge just seems like so sugary,

(43:04):
bro, there's way more. Iactually don't know, but like it's
mostly just like like shaped oats,which is marshmallows and mixed in it,
which gives you a good, goodmix of the two. It's not too
sweet, but like it's not likeSo where would you put it again?
I'd put it from I'm kind ofdebating between Manna from Heaven and Man of

(43:25):
the Clouds. It's a top ofMan of the Clouds at least, all
right, Well, I would sayManna from h e Double hockey sticks.
Oh wow, you hated that much. I guess we'll put it. Manna
from Big Cereal will put it atthe top. They're kind of in between.
I mean, you know, thereare two of us, so we
have to come to some conclusions here. We have to average one without killing

(43:45):
each other, hopefully. Do youever have honey Smacks before. I don't
know, I haven't had it.Have you ever had frosted mini weeats before?
Yes, me too. There,Honestly, they're not bad. They're
not bad, but they're not greateither, Like I would not put them
in the top man from Big Cereal, I would agree, it's pretty good,

(44:05):
pretty good tier there. Corn Flakes, corn flakes, corn flakes.
We've all had them just on theirown. They're just frosted flakes without the
frost, so so probably like mannafrom the grocery store. I guess I
would eat them for breakfast, butI really don't want to, all right,
Sure, what else do we got? Classic fruity pebbles, Classic fruity

(44:31):
pebbles. They're also i'd say they'realso top tier there. Yeah, I
give them Manna from the clouds.Manna from the clouds, like top of
Manna from the clouds. Probably,you know, we gotta we gotta spice
this up a little bit because we'rejust going on and looking for different tiers.
We have to keep it entertaining.Yeah, but we're trying to,

(44:53):
Like I'm looking for the more posta link to this tier list, because
like there's so much just it's phillridiculous, man ever had It's ridiculous.
I'm not really organized that well.Okay, Cinnamon Life, Cinnamon Life.
Yes, it's basically the less tastybrother of cinnamon toast scrunch. So if
it is, then put it likea tier below cinnamon toast scrunch. I

(45:15):
put it from Big Cereal enough,great honeynut Chereos classic. That's that's from
heaven. Man from Heaven. Cannever go wrong with a good bowl of
honey nut cheerios. That's right.Do you disagree you're wrong? Mm hmm.
I can barely even make it.I kind of already, I'm sure.

(45:35):
As somewhere along the line we hadlike a really controversial take that we
both agreed on, and like I'mgonna get like a call from Danny.
Yeah, and he's gonna say,I'm sorry, but you two have the
absolute worst cereal takes I have everheard in my life. Like no offense,
but like it's bad. Well wedisagree with him then, and there's
nothing you can do about it.Okay, we should We'll do fruit loops

(45:58):
and then fruit loops with marshmallow.You know, I'm I'm not seeing Reesa's
puffs on this list. Yeah,where is Rees's Puffs? Where is rees
PUFs? Man, Well, we'lltry to find that somewhere where I'm not
seeing it anyway. Gotta gotta fruitloops. We gotta discuss fruit loops,
all right? Where is fruit loops? I don't see it? Man of
the clouds right there. But Mannafrom the Clouds classic fruit loops. Amount

(46:22):
of from the Clouds can really evenmake it to the top of the teer
list anymore because Manna from the clouds, let's where I'd put it, and
then go down find fruit loops withmarshmallows. Put that into a Manna from
heaven. That's the best cereal evercreated. Okay, well, you like

(46:42):
the ones with marshmallows, but Iwill I will let you get away with
that one because I have never hadit. Fruit Loops with marshmallows is so
good. It's like fruit, andthen you've got that nice little sweet marshmallows
in there as well. It soundslike you like big fattening cereals. All
cereal is pretty oh yeah, okay, except for like the plane cheerios and
stuff like that. But those aredisgusting. Yeah, those those those don't

(47:06):
feel good when I put them inmy mouth. I feel bad about saying
they're disgusting because they're cheerios, butthey're still grass anymore. You want to
go over here apple Jack's. Youever had those? Never? I mean
they're good. Let's put them inManna from the clouds? Okay? Where
is apple Jack's here? Right nextto Crave down there? Oh? Yeah,

(47:27):
so much? That's crazy. Okay, No, there's a couple more
I recognize. Do you want togo over any of them? Yeah?
So there's Frankenberry right there. Yousee the little red Master guy. That's
the third of the monster cereals thatyou find out Halloween times. That's probably

(47:49):
the worst of the three. SoI put that manner from the grocery store,
okay, and then just go backdown. I saw something else that
I pops corn pop Corn Corn Popis a bad dude, and it's also
a bad cereal man from hell.Yes, I was wearing on this question

(48:10):
mine crafts so never now, Well, the real question that I might murder
you or not murder you? Overwhere do Reese's puffs ring Manna from Heaven?
All right? Bro? We canwe can eat cereal together? That's
peanut butter cereal absolutely, all right, all right, let's quickly go over,
like just real quick, what ourpersonal favorite fruit cereal is, personal

(48:34):
favorite chocolate cereal is, and personalfavorite peanut butter cereal is peanut butter,
peanut butter or cinnamon or whatever,or you can do your own. C
I just I want to I wantto mention cinnamon toastcruntches. It's good,
It's really good. But obviously weboth agree that's puff best peanut butter cereal.
Yes, what's your best? It'salso sort of chocolate, but like,
you don't really eat Reese's puffs forthe chocolate flavor, do you.

(48:57):
I mean, Reese's is a peanutbutter brand, right, like Reese's peanut
butter cups. It's split, butthey're like covered in chocolate. But yeah,
Drecy's puffs are more more peanut butterthan chocolate. What's your favorite fruit
series favorite fruit cereal? Probably fruitloops? Fruit loops, Yeah, fruit
loops with marshmalls for me, Okay, I will say cereal chocolate cocoa pebbles.

(49:22):
There's a reason why it's in theManna from Heaven. Crigory cocoa pebbles.
See cocoa pebbles also get also getget soggy pretty quickly, but like
it's not as bad as frosted.You know the best part about Reese's Puss
is that when they get soggy,they're still good. They are ever Notice
that's just like, yeah, they'rea little they're a little easier to cho

(49:43):
That's what makes them so good.Yeah, Like even even if they get
soggy, they still have a littlebit of that. It's not it's not
like the gross soggy texture. It'sstill it's a little soggy, but you
still enjoy it. Yes, SoI think let's do a quick I want
to do another quick look over thecereal we didn't rank there's it's like,
oh, we did we rank ClassicLooky Charms? Yeah, yeah, we

(50:05):
did. I guess. I guessthey just put it twice there. Yeah,
I think. So. I don'tknow, like I'm actually surprised at
how much cereal. I didn't Iactually did not know there was this much
cereal in the world. Yeah.I don't know how to feel proud or
embarrassed that I have not eaten it. I know who we should ask about
cereal is Brandon from Church. Brandonfrom Church. Apparently he does a lot

(50:28):
of serial reviews. Oh really,which he him? Maybe he can help
us finish this. Yes, Ithink yeah that Duncan Carmel machiatto cereal looks
pretty good. We should, youknow what she'd do? We should?
We should? Okay, viewers,viewers and the comments below, pick like

(50:49):
three cereals or like two or threecereals, and we mean a time because
you never comment when we ask youtoo, You never come. You always
say like, great podcast. Wedon't want to hear your comments. We
don't want to hear your compliments.We want to hear like your opinions.
We want you to like help usout because we're all stupid and don't know
how to run a podcast. Speakfor you, you need to tell us

(51:09):
how to do it. So like, actually, like step up and actually
tell us like three serials that wehave not had before, or like two
or three, just a couple maxthree, but at least one that we
should. I'll go out and buyand then I'll bring on the podcast and
we'll do a live taste test onthe next episode. Yes, you'll hear
us chewing. You will more ASMRfor those of you who enjoy them anyway.

(51:36):
That'll that'll be it for this second. Yeah, all right, thanks
for listening. We'll be back inthe third segment for some more less important
discussion, right will Yeah, wait, wait, less controversial? Why hello

(52:00):
there, you lovely oppressed, dumbstupid listener. No, I'm just kidding.
We love you guys, We appreciateyou listening to the third segments.
He was he was giving a littledemonstration on how and not to talk to
your viewers. Exactly, Isaac isjust being helpful. Any anything bad you
can say about Isaac can simply beexplained by he's doing that on purpose to

(52:22):
show you how not to behave Well, I think that goes for everyone.
Yeah, nobody ever does anything wrong. They're all just trying to help each
other out, exactly exactly. Iwould agree with that anyway. Welcome to
the third and final segment of thew Ritz Podcast. Wink wink, no,
no, don't say that, Yeah, yeah, don't say that.

(52:45):
Will come on, man, itis the final sing and today on the
final segment, we are going tobe talking about whether or not art is
subjective. So I don't know aboutyou, will, but I've seen a
lot. I've seen a lot ofposts on Twitter from different kind. I
think one of them is culture critic, and they're basically, I think I've

(53:06):
heard of them. They're basically lamentingthe fact that we now live in an
age where architecture is no longer beautiful. People aren't making nice statues, and
the only art that we see iskind of modern or weird or creepy or
freaky. And I'll tell you whythat is all right, World War two.
You ever noticed that the law famousart that was appreciated before World War
Two is all like beautiful portraits andlike landscape paintings, and afterwards everything became,

(53:31):
you know, sort of this abstractmodern esthetic. What happened in between
with World War Two that made sucha big change of the art scene,
I would say FDR became president exactly, and he set the new standard.
No, no, actually, AdolfHitler was rejected from art school and do

(53:57):
you know what he did? Hestarted a war, our World War.
And you know what else, peoplepeople must have decided our art art schools
must have decided, oh we betternot reject another Austrian student. Otherwise otherwise
another war's gonna start. So theyjust let anybody in there, and you

(54:20):
know what what happened? We gotthe worst possible art pieces you could ever
imagine. I would say you're right. I would say you're right. I
just solved I just solved art history. That's right. But boom. The
answer to the art is art subjective? I think it's not. Do you
think it's You don't think it's subjective. I think it is. There's there's
there are things that are objectively beautiful, right, It's why even down to

(54:45):
the labels on food products, right. Well, yeah, if there wasn't
something designed to catch your eye,there wasn't something that was objectively beautiful,
manufacturers wouldn't be able to make nice. It's true, everything would just be
if there wasn't Like, if therewasn't like a science or like a strategy
behind marketing with art, people wouldjust make, you know, plain white

(55:07):
cans with the word with the brandname on it, just wagins, ginger
or water. And the question isis everything that's nice to look at art?
Well? I would say no,because some modern art I do think
is somewhat nice to look at.Like if I see a very modern building
with a lot of modern art,is before you make the claim that not

(55:27):
everything that looks nice is art.That's fine. Let's define our terms,
like good little veritas students. Whatis art? What is art? Well,
I would say that it's visual.I would say it is is visual
messaging. Not always visual though,because like you could you would say that

(55:52):
a song is art. You wouldsay that music is true true, it's
it's it's messaging formed in a waythat is culturally relevant, perhaps interesting.
It's an interesting way of putting it. Yeah, Like, obviously I don't
think all music is really I guessthe question may not be whether things are

(56:14):
art, but whether they're good art. Yeah, because like all all music
is art, but not all Ithink. I think art can be art
without being artful perhaps interesting. Youknow, if we're talking about the most
ideal version of something in the mostideal version of something like art would be
uh, Leonardo da Vinci's paintings,Michelangelo sculptures, and you know, classical

(56:40):
music, right, you do losea certain a certain type of art.
Has art has changed in the musicworld especially, and I don't I wouldn't
call modern music art anymore, youknow, really I would say it's music.
I would there's a lot of goodmusic. You know. It's you're
saying that modern music is not art, not in the not in what makes

(57:02):
you say that? Not in theclassical sense, because music is the music
of today is no longer quite asbeautiful. Perhaps that's it's it's a tough
thing to discuss because like that goesback to the main point behind this is

(57:25):
is art subjective because like some peoplewould say it's beautiful, true, and
like also, you're making a verybroad term with modern art modern music because
like like thousands of new like albumsand songs come out every year. That's
that's also true of some really goodones in their sum are really bad ones.
Yeah, I just I just I'mjust saying I have a hard time

(57:49):
looking at someone like Dojakat and callingher music artful. You know. Yeah,
well it's an expression. I don'tthink it's necessarily art. Yeah.
I think what culture has tried todo is make the two into one,
you know, because expression is athing. Expression is a subjective thing for
each of us, I don't think, but not all of our expressions.

(58:09):
I think I think you're like arguingunder the impression that art is like inherently
good, which I don't think isnecessarily true. I don't think art is
inherently good or bad. I thinkart is just, as you said,
a way of expressing, you know, some a way of expressing yourself or
like expressing yourself through either visual oraudio senses, and something that is also

(58:32):
culturally relevant. And you know,there are lots of different ways to do
that. Bold good and bad.It's just something, you know, It's
just it's it's just something for youto discern where the good and bad is.
So I think I think to anextent there is an objective standard to
art. Yeah, I think Ithink there's I think there's some art that

(58:54):
I would outright call sinful, Okay, fair enough. I think that art
in general is simply culture's greatest formof expression. Right. Different cultures have
different art forms. You have thecave paintings in France or wherever it is
from the earliest days of human civilization. And then you have the Renaissance period,

(59:15):
you have the Roman period, allthese different times when art meant different
things to different cultures, but itwas still objectively art in those cultures,
right, well, objectively art.Yes, what I'm saying is different culture
will define art differently. Right,all right, I'm following. So we

(59:37):
currently in our current culture define abunch of splotches on a canvas as art,
Okay, would people of the Renaissancehave done that? Maybe not?
So art is both. Art isobjective in that I cannot decide what culture
of vieuses art, right there isthere's a form of art that everyone in

(59:58):
culture will say is beautiful, andthere's a form of art that everyone will
say, well, we don't wantso much to do with that anymore.
However, in the grand scheme ofthings, the objectivity of art does somewhat
change from culture to culture, right, Yeah, Like I do not like
anime, but people in Japan loveanime. A lot of people in America

(01:00:19):
love, and so I would subjectsubjectively say that anime is not art,
but Japanese culture would objectively say thatit is, So I think it wouldn't
they also subjectively say that it is. Well, yeah, perhaps, but
just culture in general, because nowyou're just throwing the terms objective and subjective
around here, because like subjective meanslike your opinion, like what do you

(01:00:42):
believe? Which is why I'm sayingthat I don't believe anime is really art,
but Japanese culture as a whole clearlydoes. Oh what you're okay,
So I get, I get whatyou're saying. So what you're saying is
like there's like an individual subjective islike an individual like basis like your your
opinion is the subjective opinion on art, But like what determines what is objective
is what the masses think. It'swhat you're saying what majority rules. Then

(01:01:08):
in a way I am So let'ssay this. If I said that I
was an American, right, Okay, that means I am an American.
It does not mean that I speakfor the rest of America. Okay.
If someone said they were Japanese,that means they're Japanese. It doesn't mean
they speak for the rest of Japan. Following, so, certain Americans might
like Japanese art, anime, stufflike that more than they like American art

(01:01:31):
a bunch of spotches on a wall, and certain Japanese people may like American
art more than they like Japanese art. So I can subjectively say that I
like certain forms of art better thanothers. But it's very clear that throughout
history and even in culture today,we see different cultures defining art differently because
their art is their highest cultural expression. Okay, And you could make the

(01:01:53):
argument that majority rules is a dumbidea, Well, in culture, I
don't think it is, because whateverthe will of the majority is, that
will be the culture. Right,it's the majority of that. I mean,
that's a true statement, but thatdoesn't determine whether it's moral or not.
And that's where I have a problem. Well, I'm not discussing the
morality of certain art, that's true. I mean, Matt Walsh called anime

(01:02:15):
satanic, right, so I'm kindof with them there. I don't know.
For me, I don't know.I don't think. I don't actually
I think it can be a satanicI'm like, anime at the end of
the day, is just like anotherIt's just it's style of animation. Like

(01:02:35):
honestly, yeah, like they tellthey still tell stories, like they still
have different sub genres and stuff,and like they're obviously simple parts of it,
and then there are obviously better partsof it. It's just like live
action DV shows. Yeah, Likethere are some that are really good and
some of that are really evil.True. So at the end of the
day, I just think it comesdown to there there is beauty that is

(01:02:59):
active in different cultures, but thatdoesn't mean it's going to be the same
throughout each culture. Right in America, here we have our own idea of
what art is. I feel likethat's kind of like subverting the definition of
objective though, because objective means concrete, unchangeable truth, And like, if
if what is objective changes from cultureto culture, then it's not truth anymore.

(01:03:22):
It's just that's what subjectivity is.Subjectivity changes, objectivity doesn't well,
Right, And I do think thatthere are certain objective pieces of art that
all cultures will find beautiful, butI don't think it's. What I'm saying
is if we were to treat eachculture in the world like a different person,
those different people would have different ideason what art is beautiful. Right.

(01:03:44):
That doesn't agree with you on that. That does not mean that everyone
in a certain culture gets to decidewhat their culture views as art. Yeah,
And you know, maybe I'm notputting my argument in the best way.
This is a really confusing discussion.Else it is it is at the
end of the day, I thinkthat art is subjective from culture to culture,
but when it cements itself in culture, then it becomes objective to the

(01:04:09):
people who are in that culture.Right. Oh, so they're saying it,
they're saying objective from certain people's pointof view. Yes, okay,
yeah, I'm not saying that whatculture's view as art can't change. I'm
just saying that right now, inAmerica, we have this idea of what
art is, and that is objectivein the sense that I can't change it
with my feelings about it. Okay, yeah, I got you. So,

(01:04:31):
I honestly don't think most people thinkthat swatches on a wall is art.
I think I think that's just what. I don't know. It's stupid,
it is, I don't. Ijust don't understand modern art. I
would agree, I would agree,but that doesn't, you know, culture
does apparently, so apparently who reallyknows nobody Anyway, I think that'll do

(01:04:58):
it for the w RITZ podcast today. Very happy that you listened. Thanks
for hanging on about that perhaps rathertedious discussion about art. But I feel
like it was destin weird. Ifeel like it was destined to go there
because it's just it's a fascinating topic. And as soon as you also bring
in the terms objectivity and subjectivity,into well, objectivity, into a discussion

(01:05:19):
that's been historically subjective. True,true, But anyway, thanks for listening,
folks. Uh, we will.We will be back at some point.
Don't worry. M h psych gothim. We're not done, old

(01:05:40):
bozos. We have one more thingthat we're gonna do. We're gonna call
someone. We're gonna call the one, the only, Joseph prisbal my brother.
And the thing is he has noidea. We're calling him no idea
indeed, So we're gonna see howthis goes. But we're gonna see,
you know, we'll see if heeven answers. We like a good prank.
We do like a good prank.All right, we're both we're both

(01:06:05):
in Uh what I forgot? Allright, I'm just stalling this is make
sure it's on speaker. So arelisteners in here? Huh huh? What
what is happening? What? Everytime I click call, it's saying call

(01:06:30):
ended. Oh well, wait oncea second, I will figure this out.
I will figure this out. WellWilliam again, well William tries to
figure this out. Let me justspeak to you about this fine sharpie marker
I have in front of me.Look, guys, if you're looking for
a great permanent marker to school year. We can't go better than sharpie.

(01:06:53):
Okay, Well, calling my brotherJoe's not gonna work out because every time
I hit the call button, itjust immediately says call ended. All right,
well call call someone else then ifthat'll do anything. Aha, I
got him. Hello, Hello,and welcome two two the w RS Podcast.

(01:07:29):
Ya, you're the first phoned inguest on the w RITZ Podcast.
How does it make you feel?Uh? Great? Great? Thank you,
Thank you for calling. That's awesome. Yeah. You know, usually,
you know, the person on theshow calls in, not gets called
in, but well, we're we'repretty unorthodox here at the w RITZ Podcast.
Wow. That's great. Great,good to know, good to know

(01:07:51):
what's what's going on? Fellas,We didn't We didn't catch you out of
bad time, did we. No, there's no bad time to be on
the w RITZ Pod guests. No, that's the spirit. That is the
spirit anyway. Yeah, the truthis we just wanted to add a bonus
segment to our podcast because we werebored and I thought this would be a
good way to do it. What'sfair enough? Fair enough? Okay,

(01:08:15):
what's the hottest take? You've everhad on anything, on any topic,
The hottest take I've ever had onanything, the probably the hottest take I've
had is way too niche for meto explain fully. Oh, okay,
I don't know, I need Ineed something more specific. I've had a

(01:08:36):
lot of hot takes, you know, alright many Can you bench press Lizzo?
Can I bench press Lizzo? Probablynot? No, all right,
you're normal. Well that should beyour goal. That should be your life
goal, is to be able tobench press Lizzo? How much? How
much does Lizzo way one time?Oh? I don't know. That would

(01:09:01):
wow. There surely must be somebodythat can bridge press Lisso, I mean,
like a bodybuilder. Andrew Tate?What what's your take on Andrew Tate?
How about that guys? Kind ofnutty? Nobody should listen to that

(01:09:21):
guy? Probably, Okay, allright, I don't know that that's that's
a pretty I don't know if that'sa hot take or not. I mean,
I feel like that's the majority opinion, except for unless you go into
the comments section on Andrew Tate YouTubeshorts. Yeah, yeah, true,
that's a fair point. All right, Oh, what's your what's what's your

(01:09:46):
favorite cereal. Yes, we haveto. We were discussing cereal earlier in
this podcast. Then you know thatcould be something that's tough. That's you
know, as an adult, Igo to the cereal aisle and I see
all the good cereals cost like fivedollars a box, and I go,
I don't need some life. Butyou know, if I'm in factoring in
cost, it has to be likeoff brand special K with the strawberries and

(01:10:12):
it's delicious. If you're ignoring that, then I mean, honey nut cheerios
is a staple. There's never abad time for hunting nut cheerios. That's
so true, Drew, That isso true. There you go, mm
hmm. Okay, wow, that'sa good Thanks for putting up with our
shenanigans, no worries. Okay,thanks for calling your brother, Will.

(01:10:36):
Maybe maybe we should get you onhere, like for a full full podcast
to discuss whatever niche topic you havethat hot tape. No, I am
curious, yeah, because like that'sthat sounds interesting to me, of course,
of course, of course, Wellanyway, this makes sense. Anyway,
I think that I think I thinkthat'll do it for that'll do it.

(01:10:57):
Thanks putting up. Well done,well done, thank you anyway you
have you have a good rest ofyour Sunday. Joe, all right,
you guys too, peace out,peace out. Well William, that was
rather entertaining. But now the wRitz podcast must actually come to an end
or we kind of prank call somebodyelse. Oh, I don't know what

(01:11:20):
what what time are we at?It's three or four? What we've We've
been recording for an hour and elevenminutes. Okay, I think that's a
good place to end, but maybenext week will pay. If you're listening
to this podcast, beware because younever know when you might get prank calls.
And if you want to get prankcalled, to make sure I have
some way of contacting you, becauseI might just pick you to prank call,

(01:11:41):
or I might pick you to petprank call. You never know.
Make sure you have one of ushas a way to contact. Yeah,
you might get prank called. Putyour phone number in the coming Put your
address and phone numbers, phone number, email and social security card. Hello,
No, don't take up. Don'tdo that. That's a bad idea.
Anyway, Thanks for listening. Beback next week peace or in three

(01:12:03):
weeks or an year or never.You never know what might happen. That's
right, Audios