July 31st - Addiction Services - Harm Reduction & Peer Support

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Wellness and Healthy Lifestyle Show on your VOCM. Now,
here's your host, Doctor Mike Wall.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the show. I'm your host, Doctor Mike Wall.
Today we're going to dig deep into a crucial topic
that touches many of our lives, addiction. Understanding and addressing
addiction is a complex journey, and in our community there
are remarkable programs that are paving the way for change
and support. In the first half of our show, we'll
have Emily Wadden from SWAP Now. The SWAP Program or

(00:34):
Safe Work Access Program is a pioneering harm reduction initiative
led by the AIDS Committee of New Flanna, Labrador. It
provides critical health promotion and education services for people who
use drugs, from offering clean supplies for substance use to
providing the locks on kits and training. SWAP works from
a harm reduction and public health perspective and they strive
to meet people where they are. In the second half

(00:57):
of the show, we'll be joined by Jeff Bourn from
the U Turn drop in Center in carbon Your Newfoundland.
You Turn is another key program in our community. It
offers unique resources and support for those grappling with addiction.
Jeff shares his story and why he's such a passionate
advocate for addiction therapy as well as pure support counseling. Together,
we'll explore how these programs contribute to coping with addiction

(01:18):
in our communities and what resources are available for those
that are suffering. So stay tuned as we unfold these
insightful discussions. We're going to shed light on the efforts
being made to help individuals battling addiction in the various
paths available for recovery and for support. Hi, Emily, Welcome
to the show.

Speaker 3 (01:39):
Hey Mike, thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Oh, I appreciate you joining us. This topic that a
lot of people are hearing about they might not really
truly understand, and I think that today we have a
real opportunity to be able to explain that for people
before we get into the challenges that we may be
facing our community. Can you explain what SWAP is and
how you support the people that you service.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
So SWAP or the Safe Works Access Program, it's a
program under the AIDS Committee of Newfoundland and Labrador, all
of which is located inside the Tommy Sexton Center in Pleasantville.
We also have mobile services in the Claarenville Bona Vista
area and again in the Cornerbrook area further west. SWAP
serves the entire province, though not always in person, but

(02:22):
we do what we can to make it work. So
SWAP was put in place to provide people who use
drugs with the necessary materials, supplies needed if you will,
to use them safely and ensure that there's no spread
of infection and stuff like that, because realistically, it's not
always the drugs that are the issue. Frequently it's contaminated
needles that are being reused or shared among folks, that

(02:44):
type of thing, and we can buy a lot of
needles for the cost of a hepsy treatment. So that
is one part of our program, you know, distributing supplies
fairly black and white. We have a number of we
call them satellite sites around town. Obviously, my office is
in Pleasantville, that is far away from any neighborhood or
group of users downtown, so we don't try to get

(03:06):
people down there. We have gone to them essentially, so
be it organizations, nonprofits like you know, Choices Gathering Place,
Women's Center. We've recently included pharmacies, so many pharmacies distribute
smoking supplies and injection supplies. Some just don lock soow
only some do all of it, but that's their progative,
their initiative. And yeah, essentially we're at a point where

(03:28):
we're happy to get supplies anywhere and everywhere. So that
is I guess what the program is built upon or
why it was started. And now another I guess crucial
equally as important part of the program is doing things
like this, going out and providing presentations or trainings, answering
questions anything. You know, we certainly try our best to

(03:49):
you know, if we don't have a presentation about it yet,
we will do our best to absolutely make one up
because we do recognize that we really are the only
group or program in the province that's full time. Primary
goal is serving people who use drugs. Obviously, many people
who use drugs, you know, frequent other organizations, but this

(04:09):
is our main task and our sole goal is to
make folks feel comfortable.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Yeah, so when I think about that, you know, there's
a couple of different roots people take with drugs, and
the one that people always think about it just substained
from drugs. But that's not a reality for a lot
of people because of their circumstances or the patterns that
they're in. But you guys do harm reduction, and in
particular when it comes to the fentanyl crisis. Why is
harm reduction an important strategy to use in this community?

Speaker 3 (04:33):
So as far back in time humans have wanted to
alter their brain chemistry, that's nothing new, be it with
caffeine or maybe like alcohol that folks would really consider
to be one of the most common drugs out there.
So that's nothing new. So we're foolish to think that
that wouldn't continue through time through history. Those particularly that
have you know, been entrenched in this lifestyle have had

(04:54):
really really traumatic experiences in more formal systems, be it health,
be it justice, and oftentimes all of these larger systems,
their programs, even if they don't say it explicitly, they
frequently push abstinence. Again, they might not say it out right,
but the language used and what's being done absolutely supports abstinence. Obviously,

(05:16):
one thing is not going to work for everybody. I
think that's across categories, and this being no different. We
cannot expect the goal of abstinence. So it's important from
our perspective we don't determine somebody's goal. Oftentimes in other
programs and spaces, you know, that's kind of predeterminate, right
You're going to say to this program for X period

(05:37):
of time and at the end you're expected to not
use drugs anymore or not want to use drugs anymore.
So harm reduction while on the same you know, continuum,
because we are not in opposition of one another, but
harm reduction supports everybody. The only thing that matters to
us is safety. That is at the tenet of all this.
Because people are going to use drugs, That's what it is.

(05:59):
And that's really important because that's a big deal that
encourages health, any positive change, be it using a new
needle every time, So anything and everything is celebrated in
harve reduction, and it's one hundred percent guided by the
person who's using drugs.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
And that's one of the questions that come up, Like,
you know, I I think I'm coming from a very
outside perspective on this, but are we facing a greater
challenge when it comes to drugs in our community right now?
Have they changed in their potency or their addictiveness or
any of those challenges, or has this always been an
issue that we faced in our community.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
I think we're more aligned now, unfortunately with the rest
of Canada. Obviously, things further west have been significantly worse
in all honesty for many years now, right, and it
seems like we we kind of just join those ranks.
Back when I think it was in late July early
August twhen news was published around many deaths, several deaths,
and you know, that was something we hadn't really seen before.

(06:57):
So I think COVID was a catalyst for that because
generally speaking, obviously to move drugs, you want to move
the smallest packages possible. So typically what that does is
to pack the biggest punch in the smallest package. And
that is where you know something like lab created feentanyl
comes in, right, because you would have to bring in

(07:19):
so many pills to equal the same potency, for example,
as a little brick or whatever of vent. So it's
reasons like that that, yes, that has impacted the drug
supply itself, made it very unpredictable. Fentanyl has many many analogs,
you know, folks quite literally in labs across the world,
they can tweak it one little bit to make another analog, right,

(07:41):
they're not really running out of options because in parts
of the world these things are not illegal yet, right,
so by the time the government works to ban it,
they can just tweak it a little bit. So all
of these things, COVID as well, have had an impact
that we are now seeing in the unpredictable potency of
our drugs. Yes, drugs have absolutely gotten stronger, in all honesty,

(08:03):
but that's something that's been happening incrementally for many years now. Sure,
it's kind of maybe just been publicized really deeply and
quite literally everywhere, but again, this has all been happening
slowly behind the scenes. My colleagues and I you know,
we've been waiting for this. It wasn't a matter of it.
We get a whole bunch of overdoviss deaths, et cetera.

(08:26):
It's not an it. It was always a when. So
there absolutely is significant challenges, among which the unpredictability of
the drug supply. That is, by and for one of
the biggest challenges now and the most dangerous piece of
all of this.

Speaker 2 (08:38):
Unfortunately, today we're learning about addictions with the SWAP and
the U turn drop in center programs here in the province.
We'll be right back after the break. Welcome back. Today,

(09:01):
we're learning about the complex challenges associated with addiction and
speaking with experts from the SWAP program and the U
Turn drop in center here in Newfland and Labrador. Let's
get back to the show. Well, yeah, and that's one
of the things that I think when you think about
the potency of these drugs, the likelihood of overdose, which
is where those deaths have come by recently, what we've
heard about in the media on the West coast of Canada,

(09:23):
for example, how are you guys helping individuals reduce the
risk of an adverse event like that.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
I don't think there's one full proof plan. The biggest
and most important thing that no, it doesn't mitigate you know, overdoses,
but it mitigates the chances of death is not using alone. Obviously. Yes,
we absolutely recognize that drug use is so stigmatized and
it's not feasible for everybody to always have somebody here

(09:51):
or next to them because oftentimes this is done in secrecy.
It's done in isolation. There is also a Canadian service
that I have to take the opportunity to hide. It's
called Norse and anybody. Basically you can phone them and
they stay on the phone with you as you use drugs.
You know, there's a predetermined plan in place. No, they
do not have to call nine one one if in

(10:12):
an overdose occurs, they can call whoever you designated as
their safe person. And that has made a big difference
across Canada because there are so many isolated communities that
are smaller, and our geography in particular, we are very
unique in that way and we have even more space,
more distance between everything. So services like that where you

(10:32):
might be physically alone, those things are the big life savers.
Most people who unfortunately die of drug related deaths the
overdose they are alone because you can't administer and a
loxome to yourself, which again brings us to the third
equally as important, I would say portion of this for
it doesn't prevent an overdose, No it doesn't. But these

(10:54):
things are going to ensure that you don't die. So
we give folks these things, these suggestions whatever, and each
one of them decreases the chance of death ultimately, because
again the drug supply is so unpredictable that no, you
can't necessarily stop an overdose, right like sure, you know,
starting low whatever but that's that's not realistic. So it's

(11:17):
more so about ensuring people don't die, because nobody who
uses drugs deserves to die.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well, you mentioned something there that I want to go into,
and that is, you know, let's first describe what it is.
But no lock zone. A lot of people have heard
of it, but they may not actually understand what it is.
Can you explain what it is and then why these
kits are available.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
So nolozone is a medication that reverses the effects of
an opoid overdose. It is the answer in cases of
opoid overdoses and it's the only answer. So the provincial
take home noolopsone programs, they're just that they're provincial in
nature and ours was rolled out in twenty seventeen. The
kits are available so that anybody and everybody can be

(12:00):
prepared to respond to an opoid overdose. Maybe you know
people who use drugs, Maybe you don't know that because
oftentimes drug use is embarrassing, there is a lot to lose.
People cannot go out and screen from the mountaintops that
they use drugs because there can be social, professional, etc.
Consequences to that. So the kids are available through inn

(12:21):
l health services and through us and free because again
it's about getting them out in the community. They don't
do anything on our shelves.

Speaker 2 (12:27):
So when you're on the front lines for these challenges
that our community is facing, you must have to collaborate
with different groups. For example, I could think like government partners,
local authorities, the health services, Like, who do you work
with to help these programs be effective?

Speaker 3 (12:45):
All of them? Honestly, all of you know, we certainly
putn't do this without our community partners. And there are
fifty somethings at this point that I cannot name all
of but we depend on that because again we recognize
that you know, we're in the corner of Pleasantville. We
are not in an accessible location. So in order to

(13:06):
put drug supplies in eight places where people are actually
going to we have to depend on other community groups
or some health related businesses. Also government they play fairly
crucial role being the funder shore, but we do have
their support, which obviously ensures that there's a level of
respect there. And because of that, you know, we honestly

(13:29):
haven't faced the threat of closure or we know that
we are not going to be not funded come next year.
So those things are crucial because a lot of this
as well. It is relationships on both sides, you know, Yes,
it's relationships with the service users and it's also relationships
with all of these different entities, be it the police

(13:50):
showing them and acknowledging that hey, yeah, look we have
these cards. You can give them to folks and that'll
you know, you can direct them toward these helping services
instead of arresting something. For example, we're educating around the
harm reduction. We are funded by the Department of Health,
so we're fairly connected to the Department of Health on
an ongoing basis. You know, this program is growing at

(14:12):
such an exponential rate, particularly since the end of July
when that drug alert came out that you know, we're
in all honesty, we're in constant communication because we need
more support and support is a very broad word there.
So yeah, honestly, we pretty much work with all levels
and they're crucial to our functioning. We could absolutely not

(14:33):
do this work without them.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
No chance.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
And I think that with anything, when you're trying to
accomplish something, especially a big task like tackling a challenge
like this, education becomes really important. And that's one of
the things that you guys do is educate You you
mentioned before you do presentations. Who are the types of
groups that you would provide this education too?

Speaker 3 (14:54):
In all honesty, anybody, We've completed trainings in such a
variety of places. I was literally in a warehouse in
Donovan's you know, at seven am a couple of weeks ago.
If any group is asking, we are so happy to
provide that people who use drugs are literally everywhere. They
are around us. They are people that we know and
talk to. It is not this other group that exists

(15:17):
over there. So it's important that anybody and everybody has
this knowledge. So there's there's not really any type of
business or organization that we won't go to. It's important
that as many people as possible participate in this, get
the info, get the knowledge, because then they are better
prepared to act. And again, this is a life or
death situation and we want to make sure that people live,

(15:42):
so going around as part of that. Now A big
part of the education too, though, is talking to the
folks who use our service. People who use drugs are
on the front line of this overdose crisis. They're the
first responders and they are the ones that are teaching
their peers, and I think it's really important to highlight
that like that is not us. You know, we support
that in any which way possible with information pamphlets, but

(16:05):
we rely on those folks for every one person who's
brave enough to come into SWAP, because again, they've been
so traumatized that nobody comes in trusting us, and rightfully so,
we are supporting their knowledge, exchange and learning in any
which way possible. Because for every one person who is
brave enough to come into SWAP and comfortable enough to
come in to SWAP or give it a chance, there

(16:26):
are probably twenty thirty forty folks who aren't. So people
who are comfortable using our services. They also act as
a bridge to the folks that would never interact with
social service systems and US as a program, because in
all honesty, it doesn't matter how people get supplies, it
just matters that they get them.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
And I think that there's a level of understanding that
we may not have if you're not from that community
or you don't see that commune a day to day basis.
There's probably a lot of misconceptions to our listeners that
are listening and probably hearing about this firsthand, really way
for the first time. What would you encourage them to
think about if they see somebody who's struggling with this
or they know that this is part of our community,
Like what what do what do we need to know

(17:11):
as individuals that aren't directly affected by it but are
indirectly part of the community where it's happening.

Speaker 3 (17:15):
I know it's a general answer, but kindness and respect
of those a long way. Oftentimes people who use drugs
are treated as some puban, They're looked at as disposable,
you know, they're ridiculed, discriminated against, all of those types
of things. So simply kindness, kindness goes such a long way.
Acknowledging that folks exist instead of you know, walking by them.

(17:37):
Those little things are actually the big things. Human decency,
common sense, and those things have not been afforded, unfortunately
to people who may look like they use drugs, because
there's a lot of judgment, there's stereotyping, et cetera. And unfortunately,
you know, people have an idea of what somebody who
uses drugs might look like in their head, and folks

(17:59):
who match them are much more stigmatized. For example, me,
you don't look at me and say, oh, drug user,
you don't and I know people don't. However, that doesn't
mean that that is necessarily true. That makes a big difference.
That is so much privilege right there. So yeah, treating

(18:19):
people like I said, basic kindness and respect, human decent city,
that is where society needs to start.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think.

Speaker 4 (18:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
And then you know, people face all sorts of challenges
that some people can face the physical challenges that lead
them to different obstacles in life, some people with mental
health challenges, some people with addiction and how they manifest
it requires empathy and compassion from people too. So I
just I just want to say thank you so much
for taking the time today. This is one of those
interviews where I get a chance to learn a lot

(18:47):
and I really appreciate you taking the time and having
a patience to walk me through everything so that we
can share this important message of people, so that they
can have a better idea of what we're facing as community.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Thank you, absolutely, thank you so much for having me
much more appreciated.

Speaker 4 (19:03):
Today.

Speaker 2 (19:03):
We're learning about addictions with the SWAP and the U
turn drop in center programs here in the province. We'll
be right back after the break. Welcome back. Today we're
learning about the complex challenges associated with addiction and speaking

(19:26):
with experts from the SWAP program and the U Turn
drop in center here in Newfland and Labrador. Let's get
back to the show. Hi, Jeff, welcome to the show.

Speaker 4 (19:36):
It's a pleasure to be on your show, no.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Problem, but always an important topic and you're doing some
important work. Maybe you can tell our listeners a little
bit about yourself.

Speaker 4 (19:46):
Well, my neighbor is Jeff Bord. I am director the
Interned Dropping Sector, which is a dropping center and having
your neutraline well yeah, for support everybody, I suspect ourselfs
and opholing disorder. We're open twelve with four Monday to
Friday for droppings to do one one peer support. We

(20:07):
have a number of recovery meeans that use our facility
as well, so and I guess and that's why days
our job. But I also remember CCSA Canadience Centers, Substitution
and addictions. Do you add A little experienced working group
is common to collabot. I have a part of that
and I'm also as a right here off the Recovery

(20:30):
Increvicual Recovery council, and I also set up atter a
number of other committees that basically facing the challenge out
UH substitutes disorder with their province.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Yeah, that's right. And then you you're a great person
to talk to you about this because not only are
you involved with all these committees and the organization that
you run, but you also have some lived experience. Can
you give me a bit of a history of your background.

Speaker 4 (20:56):
Well, for me, I guess I'm a current carrying alcoholic.
I will structure feel for fifty years back before they
had help in safety with beaks. Therefore he was able
to able and stuff and able to work. But back
in two townsand and two had a worker and injury
and therefore couldn't work. So I was able to drink

(21:17):
twenty four seven. The doctors put me on that wonder
drug back in two two early two thousands, and then
basically that's when my life took tail speed. So I
basically we purchased at doxy cotton. Then they basically getting
the whatever way I can or we dealing just with
them that wrap and hold off of addiction. Now, I

(21:39):
dabbled with drugs prior to this, but when I took
doxy cotton. I pretty much nailed right from the get Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Yeah, that's uh. That's the challenge for people these days
is I don't think people can understand how addiction works
if they've never experienced themselves. And so one of the
things that U turn does is it offers a safe
haven for individuals and families that are dealing with addiction.
How does that concept resonate with the people that you're
working with to be a safe place for them.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
A lot of people say, this is why sanctuary. This
is where I come with no judgment, comit and everybody here,
most people that I meet here is either land or living,
or got a family member that's affected by the loved
one's addiction or whatever. So when we come in, when
they come into a place, know John Austi hou So,

(22:30):
a lot of people don't understand that. They just explain
a bit of my story with Opius. Yeah, you said
you had a two cool this morning or two two
that will work.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
M h.

Speaker 4 (22:41):
You take somewhere and the doctor put you on the prestriction.
There also something that you've got a dict the person
out the next to your hope and within six or
seven months the doctor cut you off. Could tur either
goes with draws and your god new net. He'll buy
them on the streets. I guess back when I was
going to school, when you taking that out, I could draw, Yeah,
but purchased. That's almost for long trench code drinking out

(23:05):
or barrel paperbag. That's not the case, right, never was
the case. But that's the visual that I had. But
they are all looks like self use disorder. Don't discriminate, right,
everybody is like any other disorder, and.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
So there's different approaches towards how we're going to address
addiction within a population. Some people are looking at harm
reduction and other people are looking at absence. What's the
philosophy behind your group?

Speaker 4 (23:33):
For me, I try not to use uncomplete absence myself.
I chew that from my recovery. But for me, I
try not to look at the lens off harm reduction
or complete absence. I look at wellness. Let's look at
the person's wellness. Is the better today than you will yesterday?
Harm reduction all Creeter doll is complete absence. If not,

(23:55):
we will walk lock of a true in your journey
value whatever world you want to tape. Right, So I
guess the word that I cob was rather than harmony,
doctor leat options as well, let's you get the person's well.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
That that's exactly why I wanted to have with you today,
because that's this whole show is about. Well, this is
a broad sphere of different things. It means being as
good as you can be and given your current circumstances.
And I think one of the reasons why your organization
is so successful is you emphasize peer support. Why is
that model so important in helping these individuals?

Speaker 4 (24:26):
Uh, I'll just use a couple of examples. This one
guy commanded share inter heat story with you, and I
just said, well, by that's just a part of the
game that we're playing. And we had a general conversation
around you said, I've seen somebody that was never hardly
experience meals trying to like shot. So like sometimes when
you come in and we share some of their stories

(24:48):
me or through some of their bag each other past, like,
I probably don't similar things to myself. I just want
to lucky ones and never got caught, So therefore I
don't judge them for the team exact. You know, what
is lack of addiction because that's a part of her
illness right, and they're not that person a little more.
And a lot of people that I meet that do
get in a place of recovery you want to give

(25:10):
back to anyway.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah, that's right. Well that's you know, they're probably extremely
grateful for the help that they got to pull them
out of that hole and be able to help them
along the way. What are some of the different techniques
that you use to help people, because obviously addiction is
just one of those really really challenging health conditions to face.

Speaker 4 (25:30):
I got to have an open roy right. One of
the changes is I did do some scoring at well
University certificated and addiction studies a lot of times while
I learned near Burger and they take you know, news
would need be However for me it is basically I
got how trouble sharing part of the moist story when

(25:52):
anybody comes eating right, so I share a bit of
moy story. Way they says, what Jeff is barbarable to be?
I would be vulnerable to heat, and that's I guess
when we're oertaining that kind of works for us because
they're rocommod single. Jeff can do it, maybe I candn't.
And and like I said, we can understand where we're

(26:12):
coming from.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
It's so interesting you say that because in the pure
s important model, we see us in the offshore with
psychological health. And you know, sometimes when especially came from
a construction background, there can be a lot of stigma
around being vulnerable.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
And so I think that's really important.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
When we look at the types of addictions that are
around our province, maybe you can enlighten us what are
some of the struggles that people are facing or what
types of substances are we addicted to our.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
Probably enough, I guess not. But back when I started,
probably this we'll start a rather kitchen day. We're in
fifty years ago, so probably I would say twelve years
almost crystal Nets like huge in the eyelud I fell
with Jordan colled with crystal Nets coming back again. That

(26:58):
could be what one of the things that the reason
why I think it came back is because of the
low traffic roll. So therefore people start making that home right.
People don't know is regardless, and that's with a way
and that's another team. People that come to you turn
about her invest people we don't all know judgments. Let

(27:20):
me know pretty well know that is her verdict behavior. Right,
it's not the person, but nobody choose to be addicted.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Today we're learning about addictions with the SWAP and the
U Turn Drop in Center programs here in the province.
We'll be right back after the break.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
You're listening to what we broadcast of the Wellness and
Healthy Lifestyle Show with Doctor Mike Wall. Listen live Thursday
nights at seven pm and Sunday's at four pm.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Welcome back. Today, we're learning about the complex challenges associated
with addiction and speaking with experts from the SWAP program
and the U Turn Drop in Center here in Newfland
and Labrador. Let's get back to the show. Yeah, that's right,
And it's not just the individual that can suffer in
these situations. Can you give me some examples of how
somebody who has been able to seek helps has not

(28:19):
only improved their life, but their relationships and their family
and and you know the rest of the world around them.

Speaker 4 (28:25):
Well, I was in town there two of the harm
Reduction saw it. I think it was last week cover
selthing and I tuped into a burrow at speak until
like six years ago. I just met her True to
Grace cent there and sure chiversations. She went back to school,
she's got a social work degree. Now she's worked an

(28:47):
organization in sage arms helping people with self reduced his oder.
So that's one example. There is a way about. There's
starts who moved back to court. We learned at to
court with people. Tammy do that a lot because there's
a lot of moms or we end up get their
children back. As people get back in the workforce, we
card of encourage people sometime to go back to school

(29:09):
to get their high school or proudly encourage them to
go in the trade. So we call it encourage them,
and we come outside of them when they're pat do
wellas and that is a part of their wellness. So
rather than be verdess being out the willer within society,
uh huh.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
So one of the things that I've read about is
the twelve step community. Can you explain a little bit
about that?

Speaker 4 (29:32):
Well, twelve steps recovery is something that be the real
eighty years started with alcoholics and animus not a spokesperson
for alcaholics and animalis, but I to followed the twelve
step model. So I did look up twel out steps
in recovery we need the same same twelve steps or
the first step that's changed differently, so to use it

(29:53):
for exidy, to use compression over eating arcotics and runimus
used and so there's a whole rob of organizations that
they're that news the twelve step model. So basically after
step more than the rest artists that wherever chat the
step more you just change. I say, are the other
powers over alcohol? Like we're merchant well, So in another

(30:17):
program I said, really, power was over might depression, and like,
come on, let me meet your powers over your depression.
So dear, figure something about your depression. So it's not
only recovery from every day you know.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
I think that's that's important to know that, you know,
the approaches that you're taking are validated approaches. They're based
on pure support, they're based on limit experience. These are
all really important things from your philosophical standpoint. You're seeing this.
You've been involved in this world for quite a Whileness province.
Is the problem with addiction getting worse in the province?
And if so, what do we need to do well?

Speaker 4 (30:51):
I remember I jumped out on the leading say a
lot of times when we talked about something we forget
about out all alcohow still the number one factor within
lufraland Labador. Ever cross Canada there were over seventeen twers
and alcohol narrate a debs and eight eight thousand, almost
eight thousand opiate overdose here it is we've got an

(31:13):
opiate pandemic, halls current rate, it's hidden tea. So alcohol
still is the number one killer, still the number one
that has diveveled a lot of money. A lot of
people don't realize it, but each drink that's sold in
lufraland Labador costs dove with thirty two cents of me,
so they're not making money not yes, to probably make

(31:35):
a lot of revenue up from however, at the end
of the day, by the time they pay legal fees,
hospital fees and dollars stuff. Basically it's constantly governed every
drake thirty two cents drake.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
You know, there's links to long term health conditions as well.
That's just acute situations that put people in this sort
of dangerous situation. So yes, there is there is a
lot of challenges, but it and it isn't grained in
our community, especially going into this time of year. It's
somebody is listening to this, how can they evaluate themselves
to say I have a challenge or a problem or
an addiction, and I probably need to get some help.

Speaker 4 (32:11):
So the first question I asked, can you predict the
outcome when you take your first drug choice, whitter, first draight,
or the first whatever drug you use? Yes or no?
You say no? And then it goes on to next
You and I said, if somebody asks you to stop,
would you better to stop? If somebody said you give

(32:33):
it up for a month? They say, well, I said,
you get the defensive. Gee, I drink. Who are you to
tell me I can't drinpe or you for the next book.
So now I say, usually rest two and uh so
maybe you might have a problem.

Speaker 5 (32:51):
You can't predict the outcome your judgment. You get defensive
when somebody asked you about using or drink? Yeah, I guess.
The last one is.

Speaker 6 (33:02):
Do you hide away you're drinking? And you and you said, well,
what do you mean? I said, hide it away from
family members alone? How much you'd we say?

Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yes? I say, well, I think you need to sign up, right.
I can't say that you've got to trouble at something.
You you got to come to term it yourself. However,
for this trainees question, you know, after ask a pretty
good tealtl song, it may at the problem.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Yeah, alcohol is a huge part of the celebrations people have,
as well as maybe other drug use depending on that
group of people or the circles. What advice do you
have for people to look out for the people that
they care about.

Speaker 4 (33:45):
One is at a lot, so a new term is
distributor from not so we didn't accept the ignored area.
So I just go on like I should probably go
on and look at look and laveno on the lots.
You find a distributed site helped you have American kids,
recent beings, better to have, not needed. But there's not

(34:07):
to have, indy because you're saved, right and a lot
of times we'll be fair and accord with some studies
and stuff that I looked at across the country. It
is h I don't know where you got the terminology to,
but we call them weekend warriors, right, So like yourself, now,
maybe you would a bunch of your bodies get together holidays,
so hey, I do a little about the album we've

(34:29):
never done since we left university or whatever. So you
get together and do about the effectam and what is
going to go down? Because your immunes is not really
used to that how he dopes. So I think there
was one place in albert there for a wedding these
all with the universities together and five overdugs and.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Would have done yeah, exactly. And that's one of the challenges.
I mean, that's one of the reasons I wanted to
do this topic is because those types of circumstances appear
to be happening at a greater frequency in our community
and they used to. And for for folks that are
looking to get help, how do they get a hold
of you, Well.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
They can look out the light you turned dropping stuff
center carbon the ear. We pretty much should drop up,
should come up on the website. We do have a
web page.

Speaker 7 (35:18):
There is a phone number contact if you'll call a
phone number for offs why sell number basically circle So
get my cell number, columnies vice man.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
I will get back to you a SAP because I
put me into a meeting or whatever. But I use
eating if I take a day off, I usually at
the end of the day. So we can say you
still got the provincial warbroy you got eight on that
pretty much covers that without addictuous. Well now because some
people didn't like it, but help care is help here.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Okay, Well, I'll get a personal question for you to
finish up. How does it make you feel to be
able to help out people go through the same situation
and you struggle in your life.

Speaker 4 (36:02):
At the end of the day when you put you in,
you know, feel good about helping somebody. However, it do
come with consequences. About a year ago, I stopped pilting
that there was forty plus people that passed away since
you open your turn that I had contact with whither
it should a Grace at Harvard Grace sovere in the

(36:23):
room recovery, and I say that ninety percented it was
either opiate, poisony or suicide. So for me, yes, you
feel kind of good that you help one person. However,
the wounds that didn't make it. It is a heavy
burden carrier right for tending yourself for the very difficult

(36:44):
because we have to be there to support our loved
ones at the center part of where you in turn family,
so we got to be there for them. So we
don't nearly get proper time to breathe ourselves and use
it with their ansiut said and down downed, and then
we come home set there, and then we pretty much
start to reading process her stuff because a couple of

(37:06):
teams to peer support that a lot of people don't
fully understand. It's one for me, Uh, I'm dragging out
my past the number times a day while I'm everyone
experience trying hope with somebody. So therefore I'm honestly picking
up at my wound right and bring that up number
times today. So that's still a bit hard to carry,

(37:30):
which I don't really do them. But still when you're
taking about it, you're bringing up stuff you're not proud of, right,
but you knowlway that you're bringing up for a good reason.
And the other one is when you, like I said,
we'll unvulnerable, they're vulnerable. There is a connection that conder.
There's more personal then if you wouldn't see a psychia

(37:51):
or psychologists or have peer support workers. There more I
can't say buddy, buddy, but we got that bond them
That is different than any other professional.

Speaker 2 (38:02):
The professional barrier that sort of separates people isn't there,
because part of the effectiveness of your treatment is to
be able to get past that they're to open people up.
I could see that compassion fatigue is a very very
real thing, and I think that that's a really poignant
thing to mention, is that sometimes we don't realize the
challenges that our caregivers give and then the struggles of

(38:23):
other people are going through. I think that's a really
insightful aspect of what we've chatted about today. Jeff, I
really appreciate you taking the time. I know you're really busy.
I know you have a lot of important things you
need to be dealing with and individuals you need to
be helping, But I really appreciate you taking the time
and sharing your story with us today.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
Thank you to Emily and Jeff for joining me today
and sharing their invaluable insights into the world of addiction support.
The real challenges of addiction extend far beyond the individual users.
They ripple through our communities and deeply affect the lives
of their loved ones. These challenges demand a comprehensive approach,
blending empathy. Support and practical help. Programs like Swap in

(39:00):
U Turn aren't just resources, there beacons of hope. They
remind us that every individual struggling with addiction deserves dignity,
support and the opportunity to reclaim their lives. For those
out there that might be facing these struggles, whether personally
or within your circle, remember that reaching out is the
first step to recovery. If you are someone you know
needs help, you can connect with SWAP through their various

(39:21):
regional contacts in New flann and Labrador. For direct support
from U Turn drop and Center, you can visit their
website at uturnaddictions dot org. These programs are here to
help and they offer a range of services and support
that are tailored to the individual's needs. Thank you for
joining me today. I'm your host, doctor Mike Wall. We'll
see you back here next week for another episode of

(39:42):
The Wall Show on your vocm