Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to the Wellness and Healthy Lifestyle show on your VOCM.
Now here's your host, Doctor Mike Wall. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm your host, Doctor Mike Wall. Today we're exploring one
of the most important and fascinating questions in health. How
do we live not just longer, but better? And the
answer may lie in how we eat, how our cells function,
and how we care for our bodies over time. This
episode features exclusive interviews I was able to conduct at
the Evolution Global Health Spent Summit, a gathering of the
(00:35):
world's leading experts on aging and longevity. In the first
half the show, I speak with doctor Marie Quervo from
Einstein College of Medicine, who explains how our cells clean
themselves through a process called autophagy and why that process
slows down as we age. Then, in the second half
of the show, I'll talk with doctor Eric Verdin, president
of the Buck Institute for Research on Aging. He'll talk
(00:57):
about fasting key tones and how new trition can turn
on the body's internal repair systems, helping us delay disease
and feel better. Today, there's a lot to unpack, so
let's get to our conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
With doctor Quervo.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Doctor Grevil, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I've been excited to chat with you all day. To
be honest with you, our areas of interest are very similar,
except you go and do a little area that's very
new to me. Maybe you could first of all give
us a quick summary of your background. It's quite extensive,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
So I'm originally from Barcelona. I study medical school. I
went to medical school in Valencia and after six years
I realized that I love human physiology, but I wanted
to do research to understand it better.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So then I did my PhD in.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Biochemistry and molecular biology, and I was fortunate that we
discovered a pathway that I will tell you later that
at the same time there was a group in the
States that was also working on that.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
So I was the lucky.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Graduated student that crossed the Atlantic many times to see
if we were working on the same Then I moved
to continues the research in the States in Boston, and
in two thousand and one I create my lab in
the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, where
I caught it at the Aging Center.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Unbelievable, it's such an incredible career and you have really
focused on an area that's very interesting and I guess
the simple way to do it or explain it would
be called cellular cleanup. Can you explain what that is
and why is it so important for us?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, it's an amazing process that happens every single day
in each of your cells, So the same way that
at home you have to clean every day, and the
cells have to clean what is around. So they have
these little bags similar to the garbage containers that you
might have home, and then they kind oft choose what
they have to be eliminated. And it's very important because
(02:53):
if you don't move the garbage, the cells are a
very confined space, so it built up very quickly, so
then has to be discontinuous cleaning. But I like to
put a little of glamor on these garbage containers because
the other very important pin, and we can discuss later,
is that this garbage removal.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Is completely completely hooked with a recycling compartment.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
So basically every piece that you break down, whatever is
not useful, just get eliminated that the pieces that are
still functional you can recycle it back. So it's the
best recycling system in the world. And it's inside each
of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Is it incredible that we can understand engineering but nothing
can compete with the human body and how complex it is.
It's unbelievable. When do we get older, we tend not
to be as good at cleaning our bodies. Is that right?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
So unfortunately, that was one of the discoveries of our
group that as you get old, as I say, this,
cleaning should happen every day, but then it becomes less efficient.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So we are very interested.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
In trying to figure out why is not cleaning so
well as when you are twenty, because we have this
overall idea and when I say wei, it's not only
in my group obviously, people working in this area that
this accumulation of these problems with quality control inside your
cells you cannot differentiate what is pat and eliminated is
one of the drivers of aging. As you know, aging
(04:21):
is multifactorial, many things contribute to that. But in the
context of biology of aging, these problems with cleaning and
this accumulation of damage has been central to the hypothesis
of why we ate.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So when you were talking about having all these things
genmed in these small areas, when these cells accumulate that
should be cleaned out and they start to fill the space.
Is that where inflammation comes from.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
That's a great idea.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
So the cells, as you say, nothing as perfect as
the human physiology. So the cells have figured out a
way that if you cannot clean inside, imagine a new
that is a cell that you're gonna have, is a
cell of your brain that doesn't divide.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So whatever neuron you have today, you're gonna have it
for the rest of your days.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
So the motivation is normally to keep inside your neurons
very clean. If garments start accumulating, they have kind of
a backup mechanism. So you have different ways of cleaning,
the same way that at home you have the vacuum,
you have the sweeper, you have this thing. So the
cells have also different ways. So if one fail is lokay,
let's bring let's bring something else. But if that fails,
(05:29):
and that happens in many age related diseases like Alzheimer
and Parkinson, the cells become a bit selfish with the
idea that is like, okay, let's throw it out outside
and somebody will pick it up. It's like rather than
accumulated inside because I have to survive and this is
getting very crowded. So descending outside is really a signal
for the mule cell that is the one that caused
(05:52):
inflammation to say something is wrong. It's like, you know,
it's spillinile six, like when you are in the supermarket
and then you have everybody going there. So that's why
why the cells do it with the idea that this
is gonna send this signal and then it will be
clean outside and at least they can survive the problem
is that when this happens so often, as it happens
as you age, it's not that you don't clean one day,
(06:13):
but the next day everything is as sparkling clean. When
this happens so often, the amuse cells there is a
point that is like we gave up, and like they
just remain there continuously. They should and this should be
a chancing clean up. When you're in the supermarket. You
know they can they clean, and they don't state that
in front of the products making things difficult.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
They should leave, but they never leave.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And this is kind of this chronic inflammation that associates
to eighty.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And is that why if you're talking about this beautiful
recycling system taking parts of the cell and fixing them
up and making them better. Is this why you see
when you're able to address these cells and clean up
this mess, an improvement in things like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's correct.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So in the case of parkins on Alzheimer's, I mean,
I'm not an neuroscientists, but we work in those diseases
because at the end of the day, neurros the cells
in the brains ourselves and they use the same mechanisms.
So in those conditions, there are some proteins, very specific
ones inside the cell that tend to accumulate, either because
they have a mutation and that's why you have some
(07:18):
familiar forms of these diseases, or because something has happened
and they get damaged and there are more propens to
get damaged just because they are fragile. So when this
happened and you are young, you don't see a twenty
year old with parkinson assignment. So even you have that
protein that is already abnormal, they are continuously cleaning and
then never accumulate. As the gleaning system start to goes down,
(07:41):
then with the same amount of the bad protein, it
starvelina because now you are not removing every day, and
that kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Contributes eventually to the disease.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So we have done some experimental work in mouse models
of disease in which we have developed some small molecules
that can increase or improve these gaining and that seems
to be enough to slow down the syndrome. So in
the models of Alzheimer's we are improving memory and they
know the progression of the disease clearly as slow down.
(08:10):
And in the case of Parkinson, we are improved this
trendors of the shakenness that these animals have.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Again, very careful when we talk to the public.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
These are still experimental mouse models, but we hope that
now that these compounes have been licensed to pharmat they
would take it a necess them.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
We're talking with doctor Marie Aqueravo about how your cells
performed daily housekeeping to stay healthy and how aging slows
that process down. But what can we actually do to
keep ourselves clean and functional. When we come back, we'll
dive into how food, sleep, exercise, and even your outlook
on life can help slow aging at the cellular level.
Don't go anywhere, because we'll be right back after the break.
(08:54):
Welcome back. We're continuing our conversation with doctor Marie Aquerabo,
a leading researcher and cellular health and aging. We're about
to break down five practical lifestyle changes that could help
you age with more energy, independence and function. Let's get
back to it. Well, I think a lot of people
are afraid to cognitive cline and Alzheimer's dementia. It feels like,
so are your control. It's different than other types of conditions.
(09:18):
But another area you're looking at is metabolism, and so
is there also using improvements in that system as well?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, so metabolists and actually that's very related with this
idea of cleaning and recycling. At the same time, the
cells are like all of us. They need a motivation.
I mean, well you're gonna clean every day, I mean
you need some motivation. So the motivation is that when
you don't have food, So if you don't eating between meals,
like you know, if you don't snacking the media, the
(09:47):
cells still need energy.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
They still need building blocks to keep going.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
So then they start looking around and it's like, okay,
what can I break down and get the pieces or
what can I break down and send to the furness.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
To get energy that will be the mytok.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So it's like at home, if you don't have your
heat goes down, but you have this beautiful fireplace. You
are not gonna take your best chair and put it
in the fireplace. You're gonna take like the one that
is like a little scratch that you don't like it.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So then the cell has this motivation to look around.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
It's like, what is not good here, Let's chop it
and let's get energy. So unfortunately, because of our society
the way that we are, we are continuously eating and
we are overdoing it. That makes these cleaning systems to
be seriously compromised because they don't have the motivation and
if you don't use it, you lose it, right Like
it's part of what our grandpa has always told us.
(10:37):
So that's the problem. And then there are many conditions
like excess of lipids like fat in the diet, or
excess of seward.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
They really are very damaging for proteins.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
As far as your cleaning systems are fine, they won't
take care of that partial damage, but you don't give
them a break. We are continuously snacking and eating things
that we shouldn't. So that's the relation with natalists.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, let's take it to a general general audience. Now, Okay,
so people are listening to this and they need the
biggest take home advice that you could possibly give them
about what should they be paying attention to to keep
the garbage down in these cells?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
So obviously at the end of the day, and that's
why we have these kind of conferences. We want to
identify interventions that can help people that already have a
very detailiorated system to trade to put it back in
place and hopefully they will be soundtracked development. But I
always say that it's like we just have to do
with our grandparents told us that we should do. So
(11:33):
there are these five behavioral interventions or habits of life
that age you can implement.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So one of them is eating.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
And again when we talk about general public, I mean
we should not be generalizing. It's like I'm not going
to tell you how much you should separate your food
or how many hours because that's very personal.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
And I always say it is like when.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
We go to buy, like clothes, we want some suit
that feed us perfect.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Then we see something in the internet.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
If you take this, you will live and look will
be longer, and you should apply to everybody, so we
should really look.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
For what works for us.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So one of them, as I say, is food because
of this relation with the cleaning.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But the idea is like not so important the calories.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I mean, it's good to have a balanced diet like
Mediterranean diets.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Very good and publicity for Spain here, but it's.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Also important that you separate the food. So experimentally we
have shown that if you get the same calories, same
type of food, but you separate it and are during
the day in two meals, that time motivates the cells
to clean and that's what you have to do instead
of this multiple snaggings. So food important, Exercise very important,
not exten waiting. It's just like the day to day
(12:43):
because when you exercise there this little damage that happened
in your muscle and that also motivates the cell to cleaning.
Oh there is damage. I'm going to start right away.
The third one that we completely underestimate is a sleep.
And this is very important because if you think, imagine
that you have fast store and you have the clients,
you don't do the deep cleaning when you have the
(13:04):
clients there, you might do the littlest pills here around there,
but you do it when you close the store, and
now you go into death. So sleeping is closing our store,
it's closing ourselves. They still function, but meaningly and that's
the big time. And of course we go to bed
and we have our cell phone and it's making clink.
All let's see what is that? So you really need
(13:25):
to take your time and sleep. The fourth one that
unfortunately we're starting to look experimentally, but this is coming
more for population studies is social interaction and we saw
a lot of that during the pandemic. I mean, our
elders were the ones this isolation was really tremendous negative
in their health. So there is a very good connection
(13:47):
between interaction, activity and doorshies and these cleaning systems, among
other pathways. And then the fifth one, and that we
learn from centenarians we do studies in people who live
more than one hundred years, is positive attitude.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And I think that's very.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Important because it's this global thing that we don't appreciate.
But you know, if you are in a good attitude,
you're gonna be more dynamic, You're gonna move, you're gonna interact,
you're gonna even become more aware of your health and
how you should take care of that. So as I say,
nothing new that your grandparents did, a'll tell you, but
there is basic science now supporting that you should do
(14:22):
that to clean yourselves.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I've traveled to all the blue zones and interview these centenarians,
and I love Costa Rica, Pure Vita, Pure life. Reminds
you will be optimistic and realize how good things are. And
so look where we are right now. How lucky are
we to be here. You're here sharing your knowledge with
your peers. It's a collection of experts from around the world.
Can you give me a little bit of feedback on
(14:45):
your experience here.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, I feel that I'm supposed to share knowledge, and
I think I'm getting more knowledge out of the other
colleagues around here. So I think this is a very
unique meeting and experience because normally, as basic scientists, we
go to this very specialized meetings that everybody's working in
basic science and then you share your experiments and this
is very important. But here the advantages that we have clinicians.
(15:08):
I was having this amazing conversation with a clinician that
wants to get.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Involved in the research.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
He's not going to be doing the research that we
do in the lab, but he wants to see how
to link it to the clinic. And I think that's admirable.
We have biotech. I mean, we really need to translate.
I mean, my lab is going to do as much
as we can, but then somebody has to take this
two converted in real interventions and then you have you know,
people who can change the laws and the legislation. And
(15:36):
that's extremely important when you think in an aging population,
when all clinical trials are condition is that you have
to have a disease. So finally the first clinical trials
with no disease, just aging have been approved.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And I think it has.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Been events like this where everybody comes together with a
common goal that is allowing to change the landscape and
to feel very positive about what we are going to
do about health.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Done fantastic. I could tell you're a positive person. And
I got a question I've asked every health expert I've
ever interviewed, like hundreds of them. Simple question. But the
question is what does the word health mean to you?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Functionality definitely is like you know, that's the only thing
agent should be the best time of our lives. You
don't have to worry about their kids anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Everybody has their career.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
You have all this experience, and it's the loss of
functioning what doesn't allow us to be for ourselves. So
health is, you know, refunctional and independent.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Wow, Thanks bro, you did not let me down as
interesting as I knew you would be. Thank you so
much for joining me here today.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Thanks Emiliam for having me.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
We've explored how ourselves clean up the damage of daily
life and how lifestyle plays a huge role in slowing
aging process. But what about nutrition? Up next, we'll talk
with doctor Eric Bridin, head of the Buck Institute and
one of the world's leading experts on how fasting, key tones,
and blood sugar regulation can finally impact your lifespan and
(17:02):
your health span. That's all coming up right after the break.
Welcome back. Joining me now is doctor Eric Verdann, president
of the Buck Institute for research on aging, from fasting
to metabolic resets to keytones as super fuels. He spent
decades studying how the way we eat affects the way
(17:22):
we age. Let's jump into our conversation. Hi, doctor verd
mocho of the show about to be here. Yeah, it's
fantastic I'm super interested in chatting with you. We talked
a little bit. My background was a nutrition You have
a very diverse background in research and longevity. But perhaps
you could give our listeners the Coles Notes version.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
So my lab I carry a number of hots. One
is done the presidency of the Buck Institute for Research
of Aging, which is a three hundred people research organization
that focuses all aspects of aging, going from the most
basic model system Josofiassi ele egance all the way to
humans and so there around the institute helping strategic vision, recruitment, fundraising,
(18:11):
all of the things that a CEO or president would
have to do. But in addition, I have my own
lab which I've been running for the last forty years,
and so over the years we've worked with a whole
number of topics, but I think one of the one
that really passions me the most is the whole interface
between the environment and gen expression, so the whole epigenetic regulation.
(18:33):
So how does what you do in some way affect
your lifespan? And we know this is one of the
major drivers. About ninety three percent of your life expectancy
and your healthsepad is determined by how you live now
that that's the number that I love because it carries
a lot of hope in a way, should not be
fatalistic about how you're aging. It's actually not your fault,
(18:56):
but it's your responsibility. So that means it's also your trinity,
and so how does that happen? So you know, we
cannot study everything. So the really unique aspect that we
have focused over the years is understanding how food and
your state of feeding a fasting can affect gene expression.
And so we work on a number of topics. But
(19:19):
the really in some way why the lab is known
is really understanding that metabolites, and I'm thinking about two metabolites,
beta hydroxibutor rate, which is the major Keitton body or
NAD which is an energy transfer molecule, not only have
a role as plug and play in the metabolic circuits,
(19:42):
that there are also signaling molecules and that and they
signal quite often via epigenetic regulator regulator. So for me,
that's really one thing that I'm very excited about. In
some way, it just makes a lot of sense because
these molecules are a part of the circuits of energy generation.
But in addition, you know all of this has to
be very closely integrated, and so that's you know, you
(20:04):
don't activate this gene when you're fasting, and this gene
when you're feeding. All of this is regulated in some
way by sensing. So the thing that excites me is
understanding what are these sensing mechand is how does your
cel know what it should be doing? And metabolism, weino
is one of the major drivers of all of these reactions.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Exactly, I teach first year metabolism to the medical students
and you're talking exactly the same type of stuff that
we do in class. It triggers what we use, when
we use it, why we use it, and that becomes
so important, and I think let's just go a little
bit deeper into the fasting side of things. A lot
of people talk about fasting in both the general population
as well as on the health side of things. When
(20:46):
we look at it, how does fasting actually impact our
body as we age? Is it an official detrimental?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
The way I think about this is it's beneficial and
second y because it is an intrinsic part of who
we are, and so we you know, if you think
about the modern world is on an evolutionary scale is
a very very new invention. So this idea that we're
(21:19):
living in this food abundance where you can just open
your fridge and you have and we can walk into
a store and you have all of the foods that
you can possibly that's it's an aberration. So we evolved
in an environment where food might not have been scars,
but it was not always abundant. Now we've compounded this
by making this food clgory, dense and rich in carbohydrates,
(21:44):
and we certainly did not evolve in an environment where
these carbohydrates were abundant on such a scale. I saw
the numbers recently leased in the US, and I think
it's true. What's across the world sugar consumption and the
last one hundred years has increased by tenfold, which is
it's mindful. I mean, when you look at the pile
of sugar that your average American eats every year, and
(22:07):
you look at what it was one hundred years ago,
I think that just we don't need to look any
further wise. There's obesity. In my opinion, this is the driver.
And along the fact that we know when we study aging,
what is the major pathway that drives aging? It eats
an inaction, it's glucose response, it's sugar metabolism. So I think,
to me, that really is one focus of work trying
(22:30):
to understand this. I don't know if I I sort
of divert from where you were taking me, but.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That was absolutely perfect. Actually, if you I've heard one
hundred pounds of sugar per year. And the thing I
tell people is there's no such thing as an oil
cookie tree, right, And these are things that are completely
not natural with the human body. But when we think
about some of the conditions that are really prevalent these
days and really are concerning for people, A lot of
people are afraid of cognitive decline or things like Alzheimer's disease.
(22:56):
How does going back to our traditional way of eating,
having this period of fasting actually prevent things like heart
disease in Alzheimer's.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
So yeah, going back to fasting in some way, we
have evolved as an animal species where we were subjected
to periods of fasting. We've also evolved to put on
weight very quickly when food becomes abundant. So again, going
back to sort of the current environment, it really promotes
(23:28):
weight gain. Now, why is fast and healthy in some way,
it's in tune with who we are. Now. There's a
lot of work trying showing that first gallery restriction, which
is kind of an extreme way of chronic fasting, we
know increases lifespan for most organisms. And this is a
reflection of the fact that metabolism, the generation at the
(23:52):
burning of energy, I'm convinced, is one of the drivers
of aging. And you know, the loss of efectiveness of
this metabolism during aging is a cause of aging. Now
the exact mechanism, whether this is due to radical oxygen
species or midicondual function, or you know, there's so many
(24:13):
different theories, but everything always points back to metabolism as
one of the major drive driver of healthmare. The opposite
of this is obesity, which we know shortens the lifespan.
So there's a sweet spot in between, which I don't
think is calory restriction because it is almost impossible for
most people to implement. But there's a compromise so you
(24:35):
don't have to be in calorie restriction, which is tough.
The way that we are thinking about this, how you
can actually use fasting to increase the health span and
lifespan is simply having a period of fasting every day. Already,
your typical American will fast for eight hours a day,
and if that, going to twelve hours a day will
(24:58):
already increase the way you age, going to sixteen probably
even more. Now, how does that work? During the fasting process?
Your body needs energy, okay, and that energy has to
come from somewhere since is not coming from food. So
it's coming from your cells, coming from adipose tissue, from
your fat tissue. But it's coming from every single cell
(25:20):
in your body. And there's something really unique called autophogy,
which means self eating, which is a process by which
every one of your cell, when confronted with no keylories
coming from the outside, will start eating from the inside.
But it does this in a very selective manner because
it will start eating the garbage first. And so the
(25:40):
autoplogy process has the ability to generate energy, but it
does it while cleaning up the attic. And so this
is really one of the virtue and the beauty of
this whole process. You can actually activate this every day
by fasting for twelve hours. If you fast longer, you
activate a whole series of secondary mechanism akitosis and so on,
(26:01):
which might have additional beneficial effect. But in terms of
molecular mechanism, I would say photophagy activation is probably one
of the biggest one.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
When these garbage cells are accumulating in the body over
long periods of time, is this what leads to some
of these to generate diseases?
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Of course? Of course, so what is aging? Aging is
an unbalanced between damage and repair, So you know, poor living.
There are a whole number of forces that we are
subjected to that we will never change, by the way,
so the driving forces to aging are immutable, They're going
to be there forever. This is oxygen we breathe, It
(26:40):
is gravity, it is gamma rays coming from the you know,
it's entropy. So these are all things that we have
no control it will never have a control over. So
that in response to these, your body constantly repairs and fixes,
and so aging well in some way is activity activation
of these repair pathway is in the best way possible.
(27:01):
And this is when you think about all of the
factors that we know increased lifespans, such as physical activity, nutrition,
all those many of these interventions that like fasting activate
repair or tophegi you know, exercise, the same thing you
generate a little bit of stress that triggers a protective response.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
That's doctor Eric FORDNN, president of the Buck Institute for
Research on Aging, from fasting to metabolic resets, to key
tones and super fuels. He spent decades studying how the
way we eat affects the way we age. We'll be
right back after the break.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
If you are listening to what we broadcast of the
Wellness and Healthy Lifestyle Show with doctor Mike Wall listen
live Thursday nights at seven pm and Sunday's at four pm.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Welcome back. We're talking with doctor Eric FORDNN, president of
the Buck Institute for Research on Aging, from fasting to
metabolic resets to keytnes as super fuels, in decades studying
how the way we eat affects the way we age.
Let's get back to the conversation. I do think though,
for clarity for people listening, so I might have some
people that might not be reading some of the scientific
(28:12):
journals listen into this. Fasting is kind of a broad term, right,
So people talk about intermitte fasting TI what time restricted
eating like prolonged fasting for long periods of time. When
you talk about fasting, what do you mean having maybe
a dinner at seven o'clock at night and then not
eating again until midday the next day. Like, what would
the definition be of effective fasting?
Speaker 5 (28:31):
First, we do not know. Okay, that's that's the truth.
We have not in the field, has not had a
chance to do a sort of a pair wise comparison
all of these modalities of fasting interventions. I would say
they're all driven by the same intent. And for example,
there is data coming about this product called Prolog which
(28:54):
is about too long ago invented, which is a sort
of a one week uh sort of limited six hundred
calories per day that you can actually purchase. And there's
trying evidence that doing this every three months would already
yield some significant health effect. So that's once every three months.
I do this every three months. I enjoy it. I
(29:17):
think it's sort of a reset, just you know, a
bit of a sweet too. So you know, we all
you know that the question. The point is not for
me is not always to live perfectly as an a
seat and to be perfect about everything. The point is
to enjoy life. But while being aware of some of
the drift that happened, Okay, eating a little more cake
and that one week every three months is sort of
(29:39):
a reset and I really enjoy it now. In addition
to this, for example, personally, I do intermitting fasting, which
would be you know, every day I try to limit
my window of eating to eight to ten hours, okay,
and that I don't succeed every day on the weekend,
and you know, if my children are at home and
(30:00):
when I have a nice brunch or I will break
that rule. But in general, when I can, I will
try to fast fourteen to sixteen hours every day. So
I'm not I'm activating a lot of these pathways. Some
other friends are doing a complete water fast one day
a week. So everyone, every one of these modalities has
virtue and it will be of benefit. And we don't
(30:23):
know which one works the best, but I suspect at
the end of the day, if you do it every
day a little bit, you're going to benefit from me
in the long run.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well that's a good start, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Let's get into another area that has to do with
nutrition that you focus on as well, and that's key tones.
There's a lot of like, there's a lot of information
out there on key tones, but I don't think some
people understand what they are, how we produce them, why
we use them. Maybe you could give us our simple
explanation of what they are and why they're valuable.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
So keytones are a natural metabolite. There are three of them.
A major one is called BHB or better hydro computer rate.
A set tone is another one, said to acet. It
is another one, but let's focus on BHB. That's really
the most important one. That's the most abundant. It is
a byproduct. Under normal condition, if you're fasting at least
(31:10):
sixteen hours, your body needs energy and so it will
first use sugar from your liver glycogen, but it will
also start using fat from the aripos tissue. This fat
will be liberated, and this is why you lose weight
when you go on a fast. There are two organs
(31:32):
that I mean, there are one organ that does not
know how you burn fat. It's your brain, okay, and
so your brain will depend on sugar. The problem is
that as it's doing this, eventually the glycogen from your
liver and your muscles disappears, and your brain still needs sugar,
so it will start eating your proteins. And the danger
(31:55):
of this is when you start eating proteins as you
lose muscle mass and so on. So there's an mechanism
by which a fraction of the fatty acid, the fat
that's liberated in your blood during fasting, goes to your
liver and the liver transforms into the HB and the
other kitton bodies. These are what I call superfuels. They
(32:16):
are they burn very cleanly, and there are two organs
that in your body that love to use it. It's
your heart and your brain, and so during fasting, so
your level of ketones will rise very high. It suppresses hunger,
it burns cleanly, and it generates the states of consciousness
(32:38):
that people describe. So if you're long fast after about
three days, people that describe hunger stops and you get
this crystal clear vision. This is the effect of ketones. Now,
there are other ways that you can get into deep keytosis.
Is by restricting your carbohydrate. So if you don't eat
(32:59):
enough carbon hydrate, your body will shift. But this is
about fifteen grams a day, which is not very much
like one apple and no other carbohydrates. So if you
do this after about a few days, most people will
enter kittos, a chronic state of kittosis, which can be
high and people describe loss of hunger, and this is
why it has become one of the popular weight loss dies.
(33:22):
I think it's we've shown by the way, if we
put mice on a ketogenic diet so no carbohydrates a zero,
these mice never saw carbo almost no carbohydrate. They lost weight,
their memory was better, they age better, and they lived longer.
So there's a lot of potential of this. The problem
is that it's a hard diet to go on, and
(33:42):
most people will initiate. And I pen on a kitojag
diet two or three years and I felt a little
kind of sad I was missing some of the varieties
that that life can offer. So the last way, which
is I think pretty exciting, is providing a kit on
a kone body exogenously. So this is the whole idea
(34:03):
of the keton esters, for example. And so we've created
a created a number of number keyton esters, which actually
we're selling and you know, you probably find out what
they are. I don't not here to advertise for this product,
but the potential of these keyton esters is that they
are they allow you to recapitulate a lot of the
(34:24):
effect of ketosis on a normal diet. And so this
is right now we are engaging clinical trials at the
Back Institute trying to understand of the which of the
effect of a kitogenic diet actually are recappetulated just by
providing the ketone body exogerously. And this is exciting because
this is really sort of an understanding a problem at
(34:46):
molecular detail and then inventing something that might actually give
you many of the benefits.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
It's fantastic. No, I've done catotic diets before too. It's
very challenging to get to be due at that sense
of clarity. You do have a positive body composition if
you're doing the right way. And let's bring this sort
of wine down here now. But I think let's bring
it back to this. You use dedicate your life to
studying nutrition. A lot of people are really confused too nutrition.
What would you tell people that are listening about taking
(35:13):
control of it to learn about it like and what
that could actually mean for their quality of life?
Speaker 5 (35:18):
Yes, so, first, I do not believe that any particular
diet is superior to any other diet. Of course, we
know sort of one of the old kitogenic diets of
Atkins's diet was not a healthy diet because there's rich
and saturated fat, and so we know some diets that
are less healthy right now as a proliferation of all
(35:40):
of these diets no seed or this, no that it's
always a restriction. The problem is many of these diets,
you know, same with vegetarian vegan. Lots of evidence pseudo
evidence that one is superior to the other. I don't
believe in any of this because I've seen for every
diet that it's claims to be superior, I can find
a paper saying that there's no. What I think is
(36:01):
important is really to understand what other pathways drive aging.
And I go back to sugar, glucose and instant in action.
And so for me, one of the most important things
that you can do for your health is really to
mitigate the fast sugars or to suppress the fast suggers.
I really advocate for anyone that I can talk to
(36:22):
to start wearing a CGN, I continue with glucose monitor
and really learn how to recognize. Not those are available
at least in the US over the counter, you can
buy them. You need to find a doctor that understands
how to read those and to advise their companies, not
that actually providing this with an app. So really become
educated in terms of what triggers blood sugar search, because
(36:47):
every time you have a blood sugar search, your installing
goes up in some way, you aging accelerate, and so
we're learning how to recognize, for example, simple things. There
are a number of things that no one should ever eat.
Any fruit juice for me is a no no. So
it's more any cereal frankly never healthy. They're bowls of sugar.
(37:14):
Everything that sort of triggers these you know, fast sugar
response is going to be causing weight gain and is
going to make you age faster. So really becoming educated
about about this whole aspect of your metabolism from me
is key. I'll advertise one person who does an amazing
(37:35):
job at at sharing sort of a lay person experiences
so called glucose Goddess. I don't know if you've heard
about her. You look her up and she's a French
PhD scientist does an amazing job educating the public about
what is it about glucos and what is it accelerat
aging and so on. So what look for the glucose goddess. Uh,
(37:58):
and learn how to work with this, and then you
will lose weight without trying, which is actually you know
where we would would all should be. It should not
be hard.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, unconscious competence, and that's the goal. Last question I've
asked every health expert of every interview this one question.
What does word health mean to you?
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Very interesting? So, I mean there's sort of the old
the old way of health is not being sick. Uh.
We can do a lot better. And one thing that
I want to share with you is, for me, health
is the is the optimization of your potential at all level, intellectual, emotional, uh,
you know, work wise and all this. It's really being
(38:39):
the best person that you can possibly be.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (38:42):
And one of the things, you know, the thing that's
been amazing for me is that when I got this job,
I've always tried to be healthy, But when I got
this job, I figured, Okay, now I'm on the face
of an organization that talks about health, so I better.
So I've been optimizing, and initially the the impulse was
I want to live longer. I have the best job
in the world. You know, it's amazing what I can
(39:02):
do in terms of the potential of changing health and
all this. So I wanted to live longer and have
been doing a lot of changes. What has happened is
that in that process, I'm not even thinking about living longer,
but I'm living better right now, and that to me.
You know, I'm sixty eight and I'm getting to the
(39:23):
point where I realized I'm feeling better, that I have
my whole entire life. And when I tell this to
people or my people my age are looking at me,
I was like, that cannot be true, because they're hurting,
they're slowing down, and I have none of this. And
I think that's what health is, at least for me.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
One of the best answers we've ever had, and I'm
not surprised. Docor Bridon, thank you so much for joining
me today. Okay, right, well that's our show. This week.
We learn from doctor Marie Querobo that aging doesn't have
to be a steady decline, especially if we support ourselves
through cleaning, rest, movement, and of course mindset. Doctor Eric
Fordinn reminded us that how we eat, not just what
(40:03):
we eat, can turn on the vary systems that keep
us young, whether it's stretching out the time between meals,
dialing back sugar, or simply being more mindful about what
fuels you. These small steps can create big changes in
our health. Thanks to my guest doctor Quervo and doctor
Verdin for sharing their incredible work and expertise with us today.
That's our show this week. I'm your host, doctor Mike Wall.
(40:25):
We'll see you back here next week for another episode
of the world's and healthy lifestyle show on the Stingray
podcast network, and your vocab
Welcome to the Wellness and Healthy Lifestyle show on your VOCM.
Now here's your host, Doctor Mike Wall. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm your host, Doctor Mike Wall. Today we're exploring one
of the most important and fascinating questions in health. How
do we live not just longer, but better? And the
answer may lie in how we eat, how our cells function,
and how we care for our bodies over time. This
episode features exclusive interviews I was able to conduct at
the Evolution Global Health Spent Summit, a gathering of the
(00:35):
world's leading experts on aging and longevity. In the first
half the show, I speak with doctor Marie Quervo from
Einstein College of Medicine, who explains how our cells clean
themselves through a process called autophagy and why that process
slows down as we age. Then, in the second half
of the show, I'll talk with doctor Eric Verdin, president
of the Buck Institute for Research on Aging. He'll talk
(00:57):
about fasting key tones and how new trition can turn
on the body's internal repair systems, helping us delay disease
and feel better. Today, there's a lot to unpack, so
let's get to our conversation.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
With doctor Quervo.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Doctor Grevil, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I've been excited to chat with you all day. To
be honest with you, our areas of interest are very similar,
except you go and do a little area that's very
new to me. Maybe you could first of all give
us a quick summary of your background. It's quite extensive,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
So I'm originally from Barcelona. I study medical school. I
went to medical school in Valencia and after six years
I realized that I love human physiology, but I wanted
to do research to understand it better.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
So then I did my PhD in.
Speaker 4 (01:44):
Biochemistry and molecular biology, and I was fortunate that we
discovered a pathway that I will tell you later that
at the same time there was a group in the
States that was also working on that.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
So I was the lucky.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Graduated student that crossed the Atlantic many times to see
if we were working on the same Then I moved
to continues the research in the States in Boston, and
in two thousand and one I create my lab in
the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York, where
I caught it at the Aging Center.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Unbelievable, it's such an incredible career and you have really
focused on an area that's very interesting and I guess
the simple way to do it or explain it would
be called cellular cleanup. Can you explain what that is
and why is it so important for us?
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, it's an amazing process that happens every single day
in each of your cells, So the same way that
at home you have to clean every day, and the
cells have to clean what is around. So they have
these little bags similar to the garbage containers that you
might have home, and then they kind oft choose what
they have to be eliminated. And it's very important because
(02:53):
if you don't move the garbage, the cells are a
very confined space, so it built up very quickly, so
then has to be discontinuous cleaning. But I like to
put a little of glamor on these garbage containers because
the other very important pin, and we can discuss later,
is that this garbage removal.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Is completely completely hooked with a recycling compartment.
Speaker 4 (03:18):
So basically every piece that you break down, whatever is
not useful, just get eliminated that the pieces that are
still functional you can recycle it back. So it's the
best recycling system in the world. And it's inside each
of ourselves.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Is it incredible that we can understand engineering but nothing
can compete with the human body and how complex it is.
It's unbelievable. When do we get older, we tend not
to be as good at cleaning our bodies. Is that right?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
So unfortunately, that was one of the discoveries of our
group that as you get old, as I say, this,
cleaning should happen every day, but then it becomes less efficient.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
So we are very interested.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
In trying to figure out why is not cleaning so
well as when you are twenty, because we have this
overall idea and when I say wei, it's not only
in my group obviously, people working in this area that
this accumulation of these problems with quality control inside your
cells you cannot differentiate what is pat and eliminated is
one of the drivers of aging. As you know, aging
(04:21):
is multifactorial, many things contribute to that. But in the
context of biology of aging, these problems with cleaning and
this accumulation of damage has been central to the hypothesis
of why we ate.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So when you were talking about having all these things
genmed in these small areas, when these cells accumulate that
should be cleaned out and they start to fill the space.
Is that where inflammation comes from.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
That's a great idea.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
So the cells, as you say, nothing as perfect as
the human physiology. So the cells have figured out a
way that if you cannot clean inside, imagine a new
that is a cell that you're gonna have, is a
cell of your brain that doesn't divide.
Speaker 3 (05:04):
So whatever neuron you have today, you're gonna have it
for the rest of your days.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
So the motivation is normally to keep inside your neurons
very clean. If garments start accumulating, they have kind of
a backup mechanism. So you have different ways of cleaning,
the same way that at home you have the vacuum,
you have the sweeper, you have this thing. So the
cells have also different ways. So if one fail is lokay,
let's bring let's bring something else. But if that fails,
(05:29):
and that happens in many age related diseases like Alzheimer
and Parkinson, the cells become a bit selfish with the
idea that is like, okay, let's throw it out outside
and somebody will pick it up. It's like rather than
accumulated inside because I have to survive and this is
getting very crowded. So descending outside is really a signal
for the mule cell that is the one that caused
(05:52):
inflammation to say something is wrong. It's like, you know,
it's spillinile six, like when you are in the supermarket
and then you have everybody going there. So that's why
why the cells do it with the idea that this
is gonna send this signal and then it will be
clean outside and at least they can survive the problem
is that when this happens so often, as it happens
as you age, it's not that you don't clean one day,
(06:13):
but the next day everything is as sparkling clean. When
this happens so often, the amuse cells there is a
point that is like we gave up, and like they
just remain there continuously. They should and this should be
a chancing clean up. When you're in the supermarket. You
know they can they clean, and they don't state that
in front of the products making things difficult.
Speaker 3 (06:32):
They should leave, but they never leave.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
And this is kind of this chronic inflammation that associates
to eighty.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
And is that why if you're talking about this beautiful
recycling system taking parts of the cell and fixing them
up and making them better. Is this why you see
when you're able to address these cells and clean up
this mess, an improvement in things like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's correct.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So in the case of parkins on Alzheimer's, I mean,
I'm not an neuroscientists, but we work in those diseases
because at the end of the day, neurros the cells
in the brains ourselves and they use the same mechanisms.
So in those conditions, there are some proteins, very specific
ones inside the cell that tend to accumulate, either because
they have a mutation and that's why you have some
(07:18):
familiar forms of these diseases, or because something has happened
and they get damaged and there are more propens to
get damaged just because they are fragile. So when this
happened and you are young, you don't see a twenty
year old with parkinson assignment. So even you have that
protein that is already abnormal, they are continuously cleaning and
then never accumulate. As the gleaning system start to goes down,
(07:41):
then with the same amount of the bad protein, it
starvelina because now you are not removing every day, and
that kind of.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Contributes eventually to the disease.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So we have done some experimental work in mouse models
of disease in which we have developed some small molecules
that can increase or improve these gaining and that seems
to be enough to slow down the syndrome. So in
the models of Alzheimer's we are improving memory and they
know the progression of the disease clearly as slow down.
(08:10):
And in the case of Parkinson, we are improved this
trendors of the shakenness that these animals have.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Again, very careful when we talk to the public.
Speaker 4 (08:19):
These are still experimental mouse models, but we hope that
now that these compounes have been licensed to pharmat they
would take it a necess them.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
We're talking with doctor Marie Aqueravo about how your cells
performed daily housekeeping to stay healthy and how aging slows
that process down. But what can we actually do to
keep ourselves clean and functional. When we come back, we'll
dive into how food, sleep, exercise, and even your outlook
on life can help slow aging at the cellular level.
Don't go anywhere, because we'll be right back after the break.
(08:54):
Welcome back. We're continuing our conversation with doctor Marie Aquerabo,
a leading researcher and cellular health and aging. We're about
to break down five practical lifestyle changes that could help
you age with more energy, independence and function. Let's get
back to it. Well, I think a lot of people
are afraid to cognitive cline and Alzheimer's dementia. It feels like,
so are your control. It's different than other types of conditions.
(09:18):
But another area you're looking at is metabolism, and so
is there also using improvements in that system as well?
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Yeah, so metabolists and actually that's very related with this
idea of cleaning and recycling. At the same time, the
cells are like all of us. They need a motivation.
I mean, well you're gonna clean every day, I mean
you need some motivation. So the motivation is that when
you don't have food, So if you don't eating between meals,
like you know, if you don't snacking the media, the
(09:47):
cells still need energy.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
They still need building blocks to keep going.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
So then they start looking around and it's like, okay,
what can I break down and get the pieces or
what can I break down and send to the furness.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
To get energy that will be the mytok.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
So it's like at home, if you don't have your
heat goes down, but you have this beautiful fireplace. You
are not gonna take your best chair and put it
in the fireplace. You're gonna take like the one that
is like a little scratch that you don't like it.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
So then the cell has this motivation to look around.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
It's like, what is not good here, Let's chop it
and let's get energy. So unfortunately, because of our society
the way that we are, we are continuously eating and
we are overdoing it. That makes these cleaning systems to
be seriously compromised because they don't have the motivation and
if you don't use it, you lose it, right Like
it's part of what our grandpa has always told us.
(10:37):
So that's the problem. And then there are many conditions
like excess of lipids like fat in the diet, or
excess of seward.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
They really are very damaging for proteins.
Speaker 4 (10:47):
As far as your cleaning systems are fine, they won't
take care of that partial damage, but you don't give
them a break. We are continuously snacking and eating things
that we shouldn't. So that's the relation with natalists.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Well, let's take it to a general general audience. Now, Okay,
so people are listening to this and they need the
biggest take home advice that you could possibly give them
about what should they be paying attention to to keep
the garbage down in these cells?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:13):
So obviously at the end of the day, and that's
why we have these kind of conferences. We want to
identify interventions that can help people that already have a
very detailiorated system to trade to put it back in
place and hopefully they will be soundtracked development. But I
always say that it's like we just have to do
with our grandparents told us that we should do. So
(11:33):
there are these five behavioral interventions or habits of life
that age you can implement.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So one of them is eating.
Speaker 4 (11:42):
And again when we talk about general public, I mean
we should not be generalizing. It's like I'm not going
to tell you how much you should separate your food
or how many hours because that's very personal.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
And I always say it is like when.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
We go to buy, like clothes, we want some suit
that feed us perfect.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Then we see something in the internet.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
If you take this, you will live and look will
be longer, and you should apply to everybody, so we
should really look.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
For what works for us.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
So one of them, as I say, is food because
of this relation with the cleaning.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
But the idea is like not so important the calories.
Speaker 4 (12:15):
I mean, it's good to have a balanced diet like
Mediterranean diets.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
Very good and publicity for Spain here, but it's.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
Also important that you separate the food. So experimentally we
have shown that if you get the same calories, same
type of food, but you separate it and are during
the day in two meals, that time motivates the cells
to clean and that's what you have to do instead
of this multiple snaggings. So food important, Exercise very important,
not exten waiting. It's just like the day to day
(12:43):
because when you exercise there this little damage that happened
in your muscle and that also motivates the cell to cleaning.
Oh there is damage. I'm going to start right away.
The third one that we completely underestimate is a sleep.
And this is very important because if you think, imagine
that you have fast store and you have the clients,
you don't do the deep cleaning when you have the
(13:04):
clients there, you might do the littlest pills here around there,
but you do it when you close the store, and
now you go into death. So sleeping is closing our store,
it's closing ourselves. They still function, but meaningly and that's
the big time. And of course we go to bed
and we have our cell phone and it's making clink.
All let's see what is that? So you really need
(13:25):
to take your time and sleep. The fourth one that
unfortunately we're starting to look experimentally, but this is coming
more for population studies is social interaction and we saw
a lot of that during the pandemic. I mean, our
elders were the ones this isolation was really tremendous negative
in their health. So there is a very good connection
(13:47):
between interaction, activity and doorshies and these cleaning systems, among
other pathways. And then the fifth one, and that we
learn from centenarians we do studies in people who live
more than one hundred years, is positive attitude.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And I think that's very.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
Important because it's this global thing that we don't appreciate.
But you know, if you are in a good attitude,
you're gonna be more dynamic, You're gonna move, you're gonna interact,
you're gonna even become more aware of your health and
how you should take care of that. So as I say,
nothing new that your grandparents did, a'll tell you, but
there is basic science now supporting that you should do
(14:22):
that to clean yourselves.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
I've traveled to all the blue zones and interview these centenarians,
and I love Costa Rica, Pure Vita, Pure life. Reminds
you will be optimistic and realize how good things are. And
so look where we are right now. How lucky are
we to be here. You're here sharing your knowledge with
your peers. It's a collection of experts from around the world.
Can you give me a little bit of feedback on
(14:45):
your experience here.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, I feel that I'm supposed to share knowledge, and
I think I'm getting more knowledge out of the other
colleagues around here. So I think this is a very
unique meeting and experience because normally, as basic scientists, we
go to this very specialized meetings that everybody's working in
basic science and then you share your experiments and this
is very important. But here the advantages that we have clinicians.
(15:08):
I was having this amazing conversation with a clinician that
wants to get.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
Involved in the research.
Speaker 4 (15:13):
He's not going to be doing the research that we
do in the lab, but he wants to see how
to link it to the clinic. And I think that's admirable.
We have biotech. I mean, we really need to translate.
I mean, my lab is going to do as much
as we can, but then somebody has to take this
two converted in real interventions and then you have you know,
people who can change the laws and the legislation. And
(15:36):
that's extremely important when you think in an aging population,
when all clinical trials are condition is that you have
to have a disease. So finally the first clinical trials
with no disease, just aging have been approved.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
And I think it has.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Been events like this where everybody comes together with a
common goal that is allowing to change the landscape and
to feel very positive about what we are going to
do about health.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Done fantastic. I could tell you're a positive person. And
I got a question I've asked every health expert I've
ever interviewed, like hundreds of them. Simple question. But the
question is what does the word health mean to you?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Functionality definitely is like you know, that's the only thing
agent should be the best time of our lives. You
don't have to worry about their kids anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Everybody has their career.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
You have all this experience, and it's the loss of
functioning what doesn't allow us to be for ourselves. So
health is, you know, refunctional and independent.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Wow, Thanks bro, you did not let me down as
interesting as I knew you would be. Thank you so
much for joining me here today.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Thanks Emiliam for having me.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
We've explored how ourselves clean up the damage of daily
life and how lifestyle plays a huge role in slowing
aging process. But what about nutrition? Up next, we'll talk
with doctor Eric Bridin, head of the Buck Institute and
one of the world's leading experts on how fasting, key tones,
and blood sugar regulation can finally impact your lifespan and
(17:02):
your health span. That's all coming up right after the break.
Welcome back. Joining me now is doctor Eric Verdann, president
of the Buck Institute for research on aging, from fasting
to metabolic resets to keytones as super fuels. He spent
decades studying how the way we eat affects the way
(17:22):
we age. Let's jump into our conversation. Hi, doctor verd
mocho of the show about to be here. Yeah, it's
fantastic I'm super interested in chatting with you. We talked
a little bit. My background was a nutrition You have
a very diverse background in research and longevity. But perhaps
you could give our listeners the Coles Notes version.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
So my lab I carry a number of hots. One
is done the presidency of the Buck Institute for Research
of Aging, which is a three hundred people research organization
that focuses all aspects of aging, going from the most
basic model system Josofiassi ele egance all the way to
humans and so there around the institute helping strategic vision, recruitment, fundraising,
(18:11):
all of the things that a CEO or president would
have to do. But in addition, I have my own
lab which I've been running for the last forty years,
and so over the years we've worked with a whole
number of topics, but I think one of the one
that really passions me the most is the whole interface
between the environment and gen expression, so the whole epigenetic regulation.
(18:33):
So how does what you do in some way affect
your lifespan? And we know this is one of the
major drivers. About ninety three percent of your life expectancy
and your healthsepad is determined by how you live now
that that's the number that I love because it carries
a lot of hope in a way, should not be
fatalistic about how you're aging. It's actually not your fault,
(18:56):
but it's your responsibility. So that means it's also your trinity,
and so how does that happen? So you know, we
cannot study everything. So the really unique aspect that we
have focused over the years is understanding how food and
your state of feeding a fasting can affect gene expression.
And so we work on a number of topics. But
(19:19):
the really in some way why the lab is known
is really understanding that metabolites, and I'm thinking about two metabolites,
beta hydroxibutor rate, which is the major Keitton body or
NAD which is an energy transfer molecule, not only have
a role as plug and play in the metabolic circuits,
(19:42):
that there are also signaling molecules and that and they
signal quite often via epigenetic regulator regulator. So for me,
that's really one thing that I'm very excited about. In
some way, it just makes a lot of sense because
these molecules are a part of the circuits of energy generation.
But in addition, you know all of this has to
be very closely integrated, and so that's you know, you
(20:04):
don't activate this gene when you're fasting, and this gene
when you're feeding. All of this is regulated in some
way by sensing. So the thing that excites me is
understanding what are these sensing mechand is how does your
cel know what it should be doing? And metabolism, weino
is one of the major drivers of all of these reactions.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Exactly, I teach first year metabolism to the medical students
and you're talking exactly the same type of stuff that
we do in class. It triggers what we use, when
we use it, why we use it, and that becomes
so important, and I think let's just go a little
bit deeper into the fasting side of things. A lot
of people talk about fasting in both the general population
as well as on the health side of things. When
(20:46):
we look at it, how does fasting actually impact our
body as we age? Is it an official detrimental?
Speaker 5 (20:57):
The way I think about this is it's beneficial and
second y because it is an intrinsic part of who
we are, and so we you know, if you think
about the modern world is on an evolutionary scale is
a very very new invention. So this idea that we're
(21:19):
living in this food abundance where you can just open
your fridge and you have and we can walk into
a store and you have all of the foods that
you can possibly that's it's an aberration. So we evolved
in an environment where food might not have been scars,
but it was not always abundant. Now we've compounded this
by making this food clgory, dense and rich in carbohydrates,
(21:44):
and we certainly did not evolve in an environment where
these carbohydrates were abundant on such a scale. I saw
the numbers recently leased in the US, and I think
it's true. What's across the world sugar consumption and the
last one hundred years has increased by tenfold, which is
it's mindful. I mean, when you look at the pile
of sugar that your average American eats every year, and
(22:07):
you look at what it was one hundred years ago,
I think that just we don't need to look any
further wise. There's obesity. In my opinion, this is the driver.
And along the fact that we know when we study aging,
what is the major pathway that drives aging? It eats
an inaction, it's glucose response, it's sugar metabolism. So I think,
to me, that really is one focus of work trying
(22:30):
to understand this. I don't know if I I sort
of divert from where you were taking me, but.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That was absolutely perfect. Actually, if you I've heard one
hundred pounds of sugar per year. And the thing I
tell people is there's no such thing as an oil
cookie tree, right, And these are things that are completely
not natural with the human body. But when we think
about some of the conditions that are really prevalent these
days and really are concerning for people, A lot of
people are afraid of cognitive decline or things like Alzheimer's disease.
(22:56):
How does going back to our traditional way of eating,
having this period of fasting actually prevent things like heart
disease in Alzheimer's.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
So yeah, going back to fasting in some way, we
have evolved as an animal species where we were subjected
to periods of fasting. We've also evolved to put on
weight very quickly when food becomes abundant. So again, going
back to sort of the current environment, it really promotes
(23:28):
weight gain. Now, why is fast and healthy in some way,
it's in tune with who we are. Now. There's a
lot of work trying showing that first gallery restriction, which
is kind of an extreme way of chronic fasting, we
know increases lifespan for most organisms. And this is a
reflection of the fact that metabolism, the generation at the
(23:52):
burning of energy, I'm convinced, is one of the drivers
of aging. And you know, the loss of efectiveness of
this metabolism during aging is a cause of aging. Now
the exact mechanism, whether this is due to radical oxygen
species or midicondual function, or you know, there's so many
(24:13):
different theories, but everything always points back to metabolism as
one of the major drive driver of healthmare. The opposite
of this is obesity, which we know shortens the lifespan.
So there's a sweet spot in between, which I don't
think is calory restriction because it is almost impossible for
most people to implement. But there's a compromise so you
(24:35):
don't have to be in calorie restriction, which is tough.
The way that we are thinking about this, how you
can actually use fasting to increase the health span and
lifespan is simply having a period of fasting every day. Already,
your typical American will fast for eight hours a day,
and if that, going to twelve hours a day will
(24:58):
already increase the way you age, going to sixteen probably
even more. Now, how does that work? During the fasting process?
Your body needs energy, okay, and that energy has to
come from somewhere since is not coming from food. So
it's coming from your cells, coming from adipose tissue, from
your fat tissue. But it's coming from every single cell
(25:20):
in your body. And there's something really unique called autophogy,
which means self eating, which is a process by which
every one of your cell, when confronted with no keylories
coming from the outside, will start eating from the inside.
But it does this in a very selective manner because
it will start eating the garbage first. And so the
(25:40):
autoplogy process has the ability to generate energy, but it
does it while cleaning up the attic. And so this
is really one of the virtue and the beauty of
this whole process. You can actually activate this every day
by fasting for twelve hours. If you fast longer, you
activate a whole series of secondary mechanism akitosis and so on,
(26:01):
which might have additional beneficial effect. But in terms of
molecular mechanism, I would say photophagy activation is probably one
of the biggest one.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
When these garbage cells are accumulating in the body over
long periods of time, is this what leads to some
of these to generate diseases?
Speaker 5 (26:17):
Of course? Of course, so what is aging? Aging is
an unbalanced between damage and repair, So you know, poor living.
There are a whole number of forces that we are
subjected to that we will never change, by the way,
so the driving forces to aging are immutable, They're going
to be there forever. This is oxygen we breathe, It
(26:40):
is gravity, it is gamma rays coming from the you know,
it's entropy. So these are all things that we have
no control it will never have a control over. So
that in response to these, your body constantly repairs and fixes,
and so aging well in some way is activity activation
of these repair pathway is in the best way possible.
(27:01):
And this is when you think about all of the
factors that we know increased lifespans, such as physical activity, nutrition,
all those many of these interventions that like fasting activate
repair or tophegi you know, exercise, the same thing you
generate a little bit of stress that triggers a protective response.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
That's doctor Eric FORDNN, president of the Buck Institute for
Research on Aging, from fasting to metabolic resets, to key
tones and super fuels. He spent decades studying how the
way we eat affects the way we age. We'll be
right back after the break.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
If you are listening to what we broadcast of the
Wellness and Healthy Lifestyle Show with doctor Mike Wall listen
live Thursday nights at seven pm and Sunday's at four pm.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Welcome back. We're talking with doctor Eric FORDNN, president of
the Buck Institute for Research on Aging, from fasting to
metabolic resets to keytnes as super fuels, in decades studying
how the way we eat affects the way we age.
Let's get back to the conversation. I do think though,
for clarity for people listening, so I might have some
people that might not be reading some of the scientific
(28:12):
journals listen into this. Fasting is kind of a broad term, right,
So people talk about intermitte fasting TI what time restricted
eating like prolonged fasting for long periods of time. When
you talk about fasting, what do you mean having maybe
a dinner at seven o'clock at night and then not
eating again until midday the next day. Like, what would
the definition be of effective fasting?
Speaker 5 (28:31):
First, we do not know. Okay, that's that's the truth.
We have not in the field, has not had a
chance to do a sort of a pair wise comparison
all of these modalities of fasting interventions. I would say
they're all driven by the same intent. And for example,
there is data coming about this product called Prolog which
(28:54):
is about too long ago invented, which is a sort
of a one week uh sort of limited six hundred
calories per day that you can actually purchase. And there's
trying evidence that doing this every three months would already
yield some significant health effect. So that's once every three months.
I do this every three months. I enjoy it. I
(29:17):
think it's sort of a reset, just you know, a
bit of a sweet too. So you know, we all
you know that the question. The point is not for
me is not always to live perfectly as an a
seat and to be perfect about everything. The point is
to enjoy life. But while being aware of some of
the drift that happened, Okay, eating a little more cake
and that one week every three months is sort of
(29:39):
a reset and I really enjoy it now. In addition
to this, for example, personally, I do intermitting fasting, which
would be you know, every day I try to limit
my window of eating to eight to ten hours, okay,
and that I don't succeed every day on the weekend,
and you know, if my children are at home and
(30:00):
when I have a nice brunch or I will break
that rule. But in general, when I can, I will
try to fast fourteen to sixteen hours every day. So
I'm not I'm activating a lot of these pathways. Some
other friends are doing a complete water fast one day
a week. So everyone, every one of these modalities has
virtue and it will be of benefit. And we don't
(30:23):
know which one works the best, but I suspect at
the end of the day, if you do it every
day a little bit, you're going to benefit from me
in the long run.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well that's a good start, isn't it.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Let's get into another area that has to do with
nutrition that you focus on as well, and that's key tones.
There's a lot of like, there's a lot of information
out there on key tones, but I don't think some
people understand what they are, how we produce them, why
we use them. Maybe you could give us our simple
explanation of what they are and why they're valuable.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
So keytones are a natural metabolite. There are three of them.
A major one is called BHB or better hydro computer rate.
A set tone is another one, said to acet. It
is another one, but let's focus on BHB. That's really
the most important one. That's the most abundant. It is
a byproduct. Under normal condition, if you're fasting at least
(31:10):
sixteen hours, your body needs energy and so it will
first use sugar from your liver glycogen, but it will
also start using fat from the aripos tissue. This fat
will be liberated, and this is why you lose weight
when you go on a fast. There are two organs
(31:32):
that I mean, there are one organ that does not
know how you burn fat. It's your brain, okay, and
so your brain will depend on sugar. The problem is
that as it's doing this, eventually the glycogen from your
liver and your muscles disappears, and your brain still needs sugar,
so it will start eating your proteins. And the danger
(31:55):
of this is when you start eating proteins as you
lose muscle mass and so on. So there's an mechanism
by which a fraction of the fatty acid, the fat
that's liberated in your blood during fasting, goes to your
liver and the liver transforms into the HB and the
other kitton bodies. These are what I call superfuels. They
(32:16):
are they burn very cleanly, and there are two organs
that in your body that love to use it. It's
your heart and your brain, and so during fasting, so
your level of ketones will rise very high. It suppresses hunger,
it burns cleanly, and it generates the states of consciousness
(32:38):
that people describe. So if you're long fast after about
three days, people that describe hunger stops and you get
this crystal clear vision. This is the effect of ketones. Now,
there are other ways that you can get into deep keytosis.
Is by restricting your carbohydrate. So if you don't eat
(32:59):
enough carbon hydrate, your body will shift. But this is
about fifteen grams a day, which is not very much
like one apple and no other carbohydrates. So if you
do this after about a few days, most people will
enter kittos, a chronic state of kittosis, which can be
high and people describe loss of hunger, and this is
why it has become one of the popular weight loss dies.
(33:22):
I think it's we've shown by the way, if we
put mice on a ketogenic diet so no carbohydrates a zero,
these mice never saw carbo almost no carbohydrate. They lost weight,
their memory was better, they age better, and they lived longer.
So there's a lot of potential of this. The problem
is that it's a hard diet to go on, and
(33:42):
most people will initiate. And I pen on a kitojag
diet two or three years and I felt a little
kind of sad I was missing some of the varieties
that that life can offer. So the last way, which
is I think pretty exciting, is providing a kit on
a kone body exogenously. So this is the whole idea
(34:03):
of the keton esters, for example. And so we've created
a created a number of number keyton esters, which actually
we're selling and you know, you probably find out what
they are. I don't not here to advertise for this product,
but the potential of these keyton esters is that they
are they allow you to recapitulate a lot of the
(34:24):
effect of ketosis on a normal diet. And so this
is right now we are engaging clinical trials at the
Back Institute trying to understand of the which of the
effect of a kitogenic diet actually are recappetulated just by
providing the ketone body exogerously. And this is exciting because
this is really sort of an understanding a problem at
(34:46):
molecular detail and then inventing something that might actually give
you many of the benefits.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
It's fantastic. No, I've done catotic diets before too. It's
very challenging to get to be due at that sense
of clarity. You do have a positive body composition if
you're doing the right way. And let's bring this sort
of wine down here now. But I think let's bring
it back to this. You use dedicate your life to
studying nutrition. A lot of people are really confused too nutrition.
What would you tell people that are listening about taking
(35:13):
control of it to learn about it like and what
that could actually mean for their quality of life?
Speaker 5 (35:18):
Yes, so, first, I do not believe that any particular
diet is superior to any other diet. Of course, we
know sort of one of the old kitogenic diets of
Atkins's diet was not a healthy diet because there's rich
and saturated fat, and so we know some diets that
are less healthy right now as a proliferation of all
(35:40):
of these diets no seed or this, no that it's
always a restriction. The problem is many of these diets,
you know, same with vegetarian vegan. Lots of evidence pseudo
evidence that one is superior to the other. I don't
believe in any of this because I've seen for every
diet that it's claims to be superior, I can find
a paper saying that there's no. What I think is
(36:01):
important is really to understand what other pathways drive aging.
And I go back to sugar, glucose and instant in action.
And so for me, one of the most important things
that you can do for your health is really to
mitigate the fast sugars or to suppress the fast suggers.
I really advocate for anyone that I can talk to
(36:22):
to start wearing a CGN, I continue with glucose monitor
and really learn how to recognize. Not those are available
at least in the US over the counter, you can
buy them. You need to find a doctor that understands
how to read those and to advise their companies, not
that actually providing this with an app. So really become
educated in terms of what triggers blood sugar search, because
(36:47):
every time you have a blood sugar search, your installing
goes up in some way, you aging accelerate, and so
we're learning how to recognize, for example, simple things. There
are a number of things that no one should ever eat.
Any fruit juice for me is a no no. So
it's more any cereal frankly never healthy. They're bowls of sugar.
(37:14):
Everything that sort of triggers these you know, fast sugar
response is going to be causing weight gain and is
going to make you age faster. So really becoming educated
about about this whole aspect of your metabolism from me
is key. I'll advertise one person who does an amazing
(37:35):
job at at sharing sort of a lay person experiences
so called glucose Goddess. I don't know if you've heard
about her. You look her up and she's a French
PhD scientist does an amazing job educating the public about
what is it about glucos and what is it accelerat
aging and so on. So what look for the glucose goddess. Uh,
(37:58):
and learn how to work with this, and then you
will lose weight without trying, which is actually you know
where we would would all should be. It should not
be hard.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, unconscious competence, and that's the goal. Last question I've
asked every health expert of every interview this one question.
What does word health mean to you?
Speaker 5 (38:17):
Very interesting? So, I mean there's sort of the old
the old way of health is not being sick. Uh.
We can do a lot better. And one thing that
I want to share with you is, for me, health
is the is the optimization of your potential at all level, intellectual, emotional, uh,
you know, work wise and all this. It's really being
(38:39):
the best person that you can possibly be.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (38:42):
And one of the things, you know, the thing that's
been amazing for me is that when I got this job,
I've always tried to be healthy, But when I got
this job, I figured, Okay, now I'm on the face
of an organization that talks about health, so I better.
So I've been optimizing, and initially the the impulse was
I want to live longer. I have the best job
in the world. You know, it's amazing what I can
(39:02):
do in terms of the potential of changing health and
all this. So I wanted to live longer and have
been doing a lot of changes. What has happened is
that in that process, I'm not even thinking about living longer,
but I'm living better right now, and that to me.
You know, I'm sixty eight and I'm getting to the
(39:23):
point where I realized I'm feeling better, that I have
my whole entire life. And when I tell this to
people or my people my age are looking at me,
I was like, that cannot be true, because they're hurting,
they're slowing down, and I have none of this. And
I think that's what health is, at least for me.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
One of the best answers we've ever had, and I'm
not surprised. Docor Bridon, thank you so much for joining
me today. Okay, right, well that's our show. This week.
We learn from doctor Marie Querobo that aging doesn't have
to be a steady decline, especially if we support ourselves
through cleaning, rest, movement, and of course mindset. Doctor Eric
Fordinn reminded us that how we eat, not just what
(40:03):
we eat, can turn on the vary systems that keep
us young, whether it's stretching out the time between meals,
dialing back sugar, or simply being more mindful about what
fuels you. These small steps can create big changes in
our health. Thanks to my guest doctor Quervo and doctor
Verdin for sharing their incredible work and expertise with us today.
That's our show this week. I'm your host, doctor Mike Wall.
(40:25):
We'll see you back here next week for another episode
of the world's and healthy lifestyle show on the Stingray
podcast network, and your vocab
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