S4E1: Katie Robinson, Northwestern University, Director of Swimming & Diving

In the kickoff episode of The WeCOACH Podcast, Season 4, presented by Hudl, Megan Kahn’s guest is Katie Robinson, Director of Swimming & Diving at Northwestern University. As one of only three women overseeing Power 5 men’s and women’s swimming and diving programs, Katie offers incredible insight on leading with authenticity, intentional preparation to be a head coach, and building relationships and team culture with her 60+ student-athletes. An avid rock climber, WeCOACH member, and 2017 NCAA Women Coaches Academy graduate, Katie shares how she not only finds mindfulness, but also continues challenging herself to grow personally and professionally.

Host: Megan Kahn

For more information, links and resources plus conversations from the world of women’s sport including articles, blogs, videos and podcasts visit wispsports.com. WiSP Sports is the World’s First and Only Podcast Network for Women’s Sport with more than 60 hosts, 1500+ episodes across 50 shows and over 7 million downloads. WiSP Sports is on all major podcast players. Follow WiSP Sports on social media @WiSPsports. Contact us at [e-mail].

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
Welcome to a brand new season ofThe Week Coach podcast, presented by our
amazing partner, Huddles. I'm yourhost, Megan con Ceo of Week Coach,
and as always, we're raising thebar yet again with what's to come
this season in our candid conversations withwomen coaches and women leaving their market in
sports. I know all of youlisteners are aware of our marquee events,
the Breakthrough Summit, co hosted withHuddle. Please mark your calendar for December

(00:28):
four kings and register today to hearfrom legends such as Julie Saudi, Becky
Hammond, Doctor Conde, Liza Rice, and many more. Visit we Coach
Sports dot org or Breakthrough Summit dotLive to view the full agenda and register
for free today. For more informationon how Huddle is helping teams compete with
confidence and make every moment count,please visit huddle dot com. In our

(00:49):
season four kickoff episode, I amso excited to be sitting down with Northwestern
Director of Swimming and Diving Katie Robinson, who is one of the very few
women in college in and diving,overseeing both the men's and the women's program.
Katie Jus raptor for first season asa head coach at Northwestern during a
pandemic, no less, and it'salso a twenty seventeen NCAA Women Coach Academy

(01:11):
graduate. Katie. You know I'mwanted to get you on the show for
a while, So thanks so muchfor making time for us this morning.
Hey, I appreciate you, Meganfor all that you do with this podcast.
It's pretty awesome, and thanks forinviting me to be part of it.
And let me just say I maybeshould have told you before I'm springing
to you when we're live here.I do believe you're the very first swimming
diving coach we've had on the show. So season four, episode one,

(01:34):
first swimming diving coach, no pressure, awesome, Bring it on, that's
right, bring it on all right. So, literally the last seventeen months,
I've been absolutely crazy for anyone inthe sports world, let alone anyone
in our in our world. Rightnow, tell us how you've been holding
up, how you've been navigating somethingthat we've had no playbooks for. Yeah,

(01:55):
it's hard to even put it intowords about how that we had to
pivot and navigate and pivot and navigatethis whole gosh past eighteen months or so,
I think, you know, Ithink one of the things that I
really did is that I utilized ourcaptains a lot for the pulse of the
team, and they I met withthem on a weekly basis, and they

(02:19):
were just phenomenal in that we're allreally empathetic people but also really good listeners
and they can just good leaders overall, and they really helped me lead in
a way that was like helpful duringthe pandemic, which was a lot less
toughness and a lot more empathy.And that's kind of like I would say,
one of my strengths is to beempathetic and to be a good listener,

(02:44):
and so it just allowed me tocoach in a way that was true
to who I am, and soI just really relied on my captains and
then also my strengths that I hadin my own toolbox. Yeah, and
you were actually named the director whenwe were in the pandemic. That correct,
That is correct. And that wasa wild time because it was one

(03:06):
of those things where you're in Marchwhen it's everything was shut down, and
for us and swimming diving, itwas it was probably about four days before
we were getting on a flight togo to the NCAA Championship, and we
had a bigger squad on our women'steam and on our men's team that we
had ever had before at Northwestern,and so there was so much excitement and
then so much heartbreak and then torecover from that alone in your house is

(03:31):
it was just it was something thatyeah, you just you don't know how
to navigate that, you don't knowhow to recover really well, and so
I think, and then the lossof our head coach when he took a
position elsewhere, it was just somuch changing and there was it's just turmoil,
I guess it would be a goodword for it, and transition,

(03:52):
and within twenty four hours I neededto put my name in the hat or
not and again dealing with the heartbreakand dealing with the student athletes, trying
to make sure that they feel caredfor, and this whole process was it
was definitely a challenge. And thennot to mention all the all the interviews

(04:13):
around multiple hours zoom calls, whichwas interesting to partaken. But yeah,
that was just a wild time whenI think back on it, and it's
kind of a blur at this pointnow. Yeah, And I when I
think of all the student athletes beingat home and they're adjusting to academic life
at home, and you know theloss of their whole world basically being turned

(04:35):
upside down, I always think ofswimming. It's probably one of the hardestmen
for them to work out on theirown at home because the probably let's say
select few that would have access toa swimming pool let alone during the COVID
had to be very very small,So they had to rely on cross training
I imagine, you know, todo training at home absolutely, and we

(04:57):
were doing Each of us coaches basicallytook a hand and full of our snascats
because overall we have about sixty tosixty five swimmers on any given year,
and so all of US coaches grabbeda handful of like ten or so and
we were just doing weekly facetimes anddoing different things to keep them engaged.
They lost that there was a completeloss of anything competitive in their lives,
and that really usually spurns their likegood mojos. And so I think what

(05:21):
one of the things that I triedto do was like create little fun games
that I could do, and theywould compete every week with like little games
that we did just to keep themengaged and like something that was like really
uplifting their spirits because I think thatloss of competitiveness like that was a real
like I don't know, just socause them to have like some lower sense

(05:46):
of feeling and they lost confidence becausethey couldn't compete a lot of times,
and so I don't know, itwas just like think of whatever tricks you
got up your sleeve and pull themout and try it out. During that
time, it was pretty wild.Yeah, And as a first time director,
you're trying to go in and setyour own tone for the programs.
You're trying to build your own teamculture. So I imagine that was just

(06:09):
oh my gosh, I don't evenI can't even barely sawthom what that was
like. But I want to saythis, because you talked about that you're
an empathetic coach and a great listen. There is that kind of your one
of your superpowers in and how yourallied these programs and build team culture.
Yeah, I think you know,this is something that I've realized how important

(06:30):
it is to utilize your own strengths. And that's something that like when I
became a head coach for the firsttime at Tulane, I I thought that
I needed to be tough and Ineeded to be for sure in charge,
so like really directive, and andI just it never really fit me really
well. I think I think Ilearned a lot through that process and getting

(06:53):
to be a head coach the secondtime around. I promised myself that I
would one hundred percent just be myauthentic self when I coach, and sometimes
that does me taking charge in apretty firm way, but also like utilizing
the other like I said, toolsin my toolbox for me, which is
I like to be like relational,like that's something that's really important to me,

(07:15):
and making sure that all my studentathletes feel cared for and not looked
over in any way. That canbe challenging because again, as the director
of Swimming and Diving, I havesixty one current student athletes under my under
my care and so that can behard. But you know, you've got
to utilize your assistant coaches and allthat kind of stuff along the way too.

(07:36):
But I hope I answered that question, Megan, I kind of got
maybe off a little bit. No, No, that's good, And like
I think especially as a young coach. I see this so many times,
especially in women, is it ishard to be our authentic self as leaders
because we grew up sort of emulatingand role modeling other people that we see,

(08:00):
but that doesn't always necessarily fit ourpersonality. So once I think you
can get comfortable in your own skinand truly be your authentic self, Fie'll
be at your best A ton ofpercent agree. Yep. That definitely,
like has helped guide me when Ifeel like I get a little bit lost
along the way, just getting backto like who I am and moving forward.

(08:20):
You talked about relying on the captainso much, especially when they were
at home, and that was probablysomething you did more so during COVID than
it would be in a typical year. That's something that you'll continue to implement
moving forward. Yeah, And youknow why, I think it's because like
the captains that we had during thathard, hard time, we're so good

(08:43):
that they set a good model forwhat it means to be a captain as
well, and so I think thatI'm hopeful that we continue that. And
we've got captains this year coming upthat I'm really pumped about. And that's
one of the things as a headcoach that you get to kind of have
a fun time with is to reallyget to know your captains and make sure

(09:03):
that you and them are on thesame step every part of this season.
And one of the things, youknow, they would tell me during the
pandemic it was they would say,yeah, we're practicing really well. Because
I would be like so complimentary towardsthem. I like, you guys,
like you guys are doing a greatjob, Like everybody's training at a high
level, Like, look at thesetimes we're posting in practice and like our

(09:28):
inner squad meets because we couldn't competeagainst anybody else, and so we had
to create little competitions amongst ourselves.And I was just so positive, and
they were saying, yes, Katie, and behind that is that we are
dying inside and so just keep inmind, like at what cost are we
competing and performing at a high level. And just they were just really good

(09:50):
at making sure that I saw thewhole picture of not just the surface level,
the times that they're putting up andhow hard they're working. Wow,
that's profound for you know, eighteento twenty year olds to be able to
I know, to come to youwith that, you know, and articulate
that, yes, they are incrediblyimpressive people and doing great things in their

(10:13):
life right now. It's hard toimagine because you talk about that, and
now I'm going to say, youknow, you had this phenomenal year.
Your women, I think finished sixteenth, which is your best finish in the
NCAA's in two decades at Northwestern.One of your male swimmers competed in Tokyo
and brought home bronze. And soit's hard to imagine all the challenges and

(10:33):
them even articulating that. I wantto know, given everything that you went
through in the last seventeen months,what was your biggest aha moment as the
director of the program. Yeah,that's a good that's a good question,
you know. I think I thinkit has to do with really, somebody

(10:58):
told me one and you guys haveprobably had this quoted you on your podcasts
before. But they won't The quoteis they won't know. They won't care
how much you know until they knowhow much you care. And again,
I think I'm hitting on this prettyhard, so I apologize if we keep
it in it again, But likethat listening that care for them, they

(11:18):
have to know that from from myperspective, and again this is specific maybe
just to Swermanian diving just the waythat they're brought up, but I think
that they're definitely wanting that personal touchof a coach m and just making sure
that they feel like they can cometo you for anything. That's something that
I'm constantly working for. I think, you know, as a head coach.

(11:41):
To coming from being U an assistantcoach previous and then into this head
coaching role at the same institution hasbeen really helpful to allow them to remember
that like, oh yeah, Ican, I can approach Kati, because
I think sometimes with that that titleof director, it can become something of

(12:01):
a of a gap where this studentthey don't always feel comfortable going because they
feel like they have to be completelybuttoned up and and ready to like putting
their best foot forward in front ofyou, because they are constantly wanting to
impress you as a director, andI think as as an assistant coach,
they would come to me with someproblems like how do I help that,

(12:22):
you know, so I think,you know, I think in going from
assistant got a head coach in thissame institution has been really helpful, and
I think that it's still something thatwe can continue to work on, you
know, as a as a teamin myself and my coaching career. Yeah,
it's so interesting you say that.I've had a couple of conversations with

(12:43):
other coaches in other sports, notdirectly swimming, but you're you're basically a
CEO of a business, and thenwhen you look at the number of student
athletes you have, let alone allthe other people that you're managing on a
day to day basis, from staffto trainers to performance to you know,
sports psychologists, all the people thatare under your domain and buying for your

(13:05):
attention and then for a student athleteto feel comfortable. Sometimes that gap becomes
so great and you do lose thatdirect personal relationship with them. So I
think it's great that you're continuing toprioritize that because you don't want to get
too far removed exactly. And that'sI love that. That's super rewarding to
me, is that relationship. SoI really would hate to lose that.

(13:28):
And yes, I end up relyingon my assistant coaches like very much so
to helping bridge that gap. AndI think that that's a huge world that
assistant coaches can play. Yeah,you know, the other thing that has
been all this stuff is big comingat you as a new director of the

(13:48):
program. We look at all thesocial unrest last year. You're living in
a major your campus is right inthe heart of Chicago and a major metropolist
where we saw so much you know, violence playing out out and cultivating those
conversations in a safe environment. Andnow you have name image likeness. Can
you talk about either of those andand how you've helped make sure your student

(14:11):
athletes were educated, informed and feltsafe in those spaces. Yeah, you
know, that's something that like asoutside of even my job, is that
something I'm really passionate about is thatdiversity of greedy and inclusion. And so
I just dove into the literature.I just was like, I need to
know everything I can possibly know abouthow to be an ally, how to

(14:37):
be somebody that is looking out forall people, not just the people that
like they are in the circle ofswimming and diving. And so I think,
you know, and we have wehave some black student athletes on our
team that like I wanted, Iwanted to make sure that they were supported

(14:58):
and so just reaching out to them. Whether I was like per se comfortable
in that space or not. UM, I think that was really I'm hopeful
that that was important that they heardfrom me directly instead of being shocked by
to like, you know, reachout to them. UM. And so
yeah, and you know, it'ssomething that our team really kind of wrapped

(15:20):
their arms around, and we didsome team building stuff and some uh like
we did a privilege walk thing thatwas again it's just kind of hopefully opened
some eyes to like the privilege thatour sport lens that a lot of our
a lot of our people in oursport are white, and so it just

(15:41):
was kind of eye opening, hopefullyto the privileges that they didn't know about.
UM. Is also I led ourstaff through, like you were mentioning,
how not only my head coach tosixty plus student athletes, but also
I've got about eight people on ourstaff that help care for our student athletes
and so in assistant coaches and blunteercoaches and grad assistant coaches, and so

(16:03):
that was the other thing is Iwanted to make sure that they were also
diving into the literature and learning.So we read. So you want to
talk about race together. We justdid like two chapters a week and then
we'd have like an hour long discussionand that took us pretty much all the
way through the fall, and thatwas just something that I really wanted to
do. I think that's really importantand definitely very passionate about that. In

(16:27):
fact, that was the other thing. We have committees on our team,
and these are just different ways thatour student athletes can dive into something that
they're really passionate about that helps ourprogram. And so one of the committees
that I created when I became headcoach as a diversity, Equity and Inclusion
committee, and they just do allsorts of things from we team up with

(16:47):
Team Impact, which is we've welcomedto a twelve year old girl that has
vial palsy to be part of ourprogram, and then also like we create
any kind of design that we wantto do for our shirts that we can
use our platform in our versus asa collegiate athletic program when we travel that
this says what we stand for allthe people that could be potentially marginalized.

(17:12):
Yeah, that's amazing. You're certainlywalking to talk and I think it's important
for your staff and your student athletes, you know, to see you really
put action behind your words. Yeah. Thanks, I you know, they've
they've come up and told me so. So that makes me feel like I'm
trying. I'm I'm hopeful, Likeyou know, you never never want to

(17:33):
be like overly confident in that area. So I want to keep striving to
be better and to be better andto be better. Speaking of walking,
let's talk about climbing. Right,it's no wonder you're a seller rock climber.
You're a three time champ in thetwo hundred yards fly and eleven time
All American at Texas. Right asa student athlete, Let's talk a little

(17:53):
bit about the personal, because everythingand coaching isn't just about work related.
I know that feed your soul.Talk a little about how you got into
rock climbate to what you love aboutit. Yeah. Well, my brother,
my younger brother, got me intorock climbing just I would see his
photos. He was kind of aglobetrotter. He was over in Germany for
part of his undergraduate degree and thenhe's a full Bright scholar, so he

(18:15):
went back to Germany to teach overthere, and he just got to be
in all these really cool areas rockclimbing, and I thought that that was
like super cool. So I waslike, let me try this out.
And then I fell in love withit the very first time I went just
the mindfulness, like it really youcan only think about what you're doing in
that moment, and that can bereally helpful for someone like like a coach,

(18:38):
who they could be thinking, likeyou can drive yourself crazy allowing your
brain to just continue to think onconversations that you want to have, conversations
that you need to have, likeyou know, how you interacted with some
of your teammate or team that day. So I think it's really good for
me to just have a space whereI can really kind of blank out and
be physical in movement and creative inthe way that I get to the top

(19:03):
of the routes and different things likethat. So I like totally have fallen
in love with rock climbing and Iuse it to find good balances, some
good self care right there. Allright, So I mentioned this in my
opening comments. We're going to diveinto it a little bit now. So
in swimming and diving, only twentypercent of the head coaches at MTA Division

(19:26):
one level are women, so onein five is a woman. You're one
of only three women as a directorof a program and Power five conferences.
You've Alabama, Georgia Tech. Kudosto those other two as well for shattering
a glass ceiling by hiring women induge roles. And I know through the
past years, you know, Ihave had some conversations about how do you

(19:49):
prepare yourself as a woman when you'renot often given opportunities and experiences to prove
yourself coaching male athletes. Let's talkabout your coaching journey, because you knew
this was something you wanted, howyou prepared yourself for this position? Yeah,
I think okay. So I startedout coaching at the University of Virginia

(20:10):
and that was combined program, soI got three years of experience working with
both men and women together and thenalso amongst a full staff. Because that's
the that's the major differences. Whenyou're working at a single gender program,
it's the head coach and the assistantcoach, and that's pretty much it.
When you're working with a combined program, it's you know, the head or

(20:30):
the director, and then you canhave four assistant coaches. Max Kind of
underneath you, plus you know,obviously the diving coaches. So I think
that was where I got a goodkind of like groundwork and knowing, like
you know, i'd watch the headcoach and how he would interact with different
teams, the men's team, thewomen's team, and then also the combined

(20:52):
team because you kind of basically havethree different identities that you're working with,
combined, men's and women's. Andthat was good. And I think,
you know, I spent seven yearsjust working with women because as a young
female head coach or as a youngfemale coach, I just enjoyed coaching women,
Like that's always something that I've beenexcited about. I feel like I

(21:15):
can do it at a high level, Like I felt competent in that,
and then at a certain point,I just got really curious about breaking you
know, some glass ceilings. Ilove. I'm pretty ambitious when it comes
to like tell me what I cando and I will prove you otherwise.
And so I think, you know, when Northwestern opened up and I saw

(21:38):
the potential of this program, andyou know, I left Tulane as the
head coach to take the associate headcoach at Northwestern. So people could look
at it as a step down,but I only saw it as potential because
I just I saw how good wecould be at Northwestern. I could I
could dream, and I could seethat vision. And then also it allowed

(22:00):
me to get back into a combinedprogram, which I started to have a
lot of curiosity with. And thenyou know, once I once I got
here, you know, the logisticalthings are, like you have to know
what's fast because I hadn't been coachingmen for seven years, and so like
there's a learning curve with that,and just utilizing my other co workers to

(22:22):
help make sure that I'm like seeingit the way that they see it too,
So that's like a little bit ofa learning curve. And then working
with men is fun, Like Ireally enjoy it. I think, you
know, I think as a womanworking with men, it's like it's even
more fun perhaps because you're just like, hey, yeah, this is like
different a little bit. But Idon't know. I think with coaching swimmers,

(22:45):
like again, there's a lot that'smore similar between the genders, and
that's what's different from gender to gender. Now. I think when I addressed
the men's program to like as awhole versus when I address the women's team
together as a whole is different ina little bit of like style. But

(23:06):
otherwise I'm just trying to coach thehuman in front of me, whether they're
a man or a woman, andget them to reach their goals. Yeah.
So I'm curious because a lot ofpeople I hear say very similar things,
like there's more similarities than difference.But you, since you just meant
them a dive dive in on there, how do you address them differently if
you address them a little bit differentsyou said? Yeah, I think,

(23:29):
I mean, ultimately, the guyswant to make sure that you're competent,
right, So you've got to likeprovide some facts. You've got to provide
just different things that will like you'vegot to exude confidence at a really high
level and when you talk with them, and you know, it depends on
what group to group, but youcan use a little bit more colorful language

(23:52):
in front of the men's team asa whole. And again maybe I'm just
maybe I could do that with mywomen. I just haven't tried yet.
I don't know, but I thinkwith the women's team, and more important
than exuding confidence is exuding care.We're looking out for you. We're in
this together, Like they really reptheir motivations around doing it together as a

(24:19):
team, and so I think that'sone of the things that I've seen in
this position at least. Yeah,it's awesome. So you're an academy grab
we talked about that. You talkedabout reading the book as a staff.
How else do you grow as acoach and as a leader? Man,
I can't get my hands on enoughbooks. I feel like that's one of

(24:41):
the things that I do a lotis I'm a constant reader, and by
reader, I do audio books onmy way to and from work. I'm
not which of one to sit downwith a paper book, but that's okay.
Yeah, So I'm just constantly tryingto listen to what other people have
done. I think I rely hugelyon our staff at Northwestern. I've got

(25:03):
some amazing coaches amongst our head coachinggroup here at Northwestern that are extremely successful,
and so I've been able to That'ssomething that's like really fun for me
is to reach out to some ofthe other coaches and ask questions learn from
them. I mean, I likeit doesn't even stop with just like the
women's coaches, I like talk tothe football coach over this summer about like

(25:26):
managing staff and different things like that. So we're definitely a pretty tight knit
group. And that's one of thethings that I love about Northwestern was that
openness amongst the coaches. What aresome of the good books you've listened to
recently that other coaches would enjoy?Oh, I mean, I love a
Brene Brown book, So all ofher books that would highly suggest. One

(25:48):
of the ones that I read earlyin my career was The Gifts of Imperfection.
It's one of our books she wrotea few years back, but that
was like hugely important for me.And then the other one is Daring Greatly.
That's a good one. I mightbe saying that wrong. It might
be Dare to Lead instead of DaringGreatly, but very very good books.

(26:12):
And then just an interesting one wascalled The Rise of Superman, and that
was fascinating because it talked about theflow state and maybe less applicable, but
just really fascinating in understanding that flowstate in that sense of being cool awesome.

(26:33):
I love it. I haven't readthat one, so I'll have to
check it out for sure. Yeah, all right, we're sticking with our
tradition, we end every episode withrapid fires. I get to put you
on the hot beat all right rightup outside of rock climby, What can
we most likely find you doing onan off day? Going to the dog
beach with my dog? Oh goodone. Name something on your bucket list.

(26:57):
I would love to go on avacation to Greece and rock climb on
the islands and this thing called deepwater solo where you can climb without ropes
and if you fall, you justfall into the water. It's like cliff
climbing there. It would be beautifulthere. I would have no doubt.
Yeah, let your go to karaokesong, Oh my gosh, Valerie by

(27:22):
Amy Winehouse. So you talked aboutbeing on your bucket list was rock climbing?
Am An asked, what's the bestlake you've rock climbed so far?
Oh my gosh, it's so hardto pick one. I would have to
say my very first experience rock climbingoutdoors was in Thailand with my brother who
got me into climbing. I thinkit was just like a big emotional the

(27:42):
fact that I got to do itwith him. So I picked Thailand.
Awesome. What's the thing you lovemost about Chicago. Oh my gosh,
so lakefront. It's gorgeous. Thewater is so blue, it looks like
the Caribbean. I love it.I was gonna laugh at you said pizza
so good? Yes, all right. Last one, what advice do you

(28:03):
have for your younger self? Iwould say, stop trying to be like
other people that you look up toand just be yourself. I love it.
That's a wrap, Katty. Thankyou so much for chatting with us.
I wish you nothing but the bestelected season. Thanks for listening to
today's episode, and thanks to ourpodcast partners Huddle and with Sports Does It
BREAKTHROUGHSMIT dot Live for a full listof our speakers and sessions for December four

(28:27):
Pink, I promise you years threewill not disappoint, So register today and
until next time. All Sports,one voice, We coach