June 9, 2022 • 48 mins
Welcome back to The WeCOACH Podcast. In S5E1 of The WeCOACH Podcast, presented by Hudl, host Vanessa Fuchs, new WeCOACH CEO, welcomes two very special people as her first guests—her college coach, Sue Semrau, and college teammate, Brooke Wyckoff. Coach Sue Semrau, FSU’s all-time winningest women’s basketball coach and 2015 National Coach of the Year, retired in March 2022 after 25 successful years at the helm—her first, and only, head coaching job. Her successor was none other than Brooke Wyckoff, whom Sue has mentored since Brooke’s playing days. She may be retired but Sue has established quite a large coaching tree to carry on her legacy. The season premier podcast dives into Sue’s strategies for building the pipeline of future coaches, as well as Brooke’s transition as a first-time head coach. And for all our mothers in coaching, this episode is for you—learn about Brooke’s “Moms in Coaching” initiative that is taking hold around the country.
Host: Vanessa Fuchs
The WeCOACH Podcast is a co-production with WiSP Sports.
Host: Vanessa Fuchs
The WeCOACH Podcast is a co-production with WiSP Sports.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Hello everyone, and welcome to seasonfive, Episode one of the Week Coach
podcast, presented by our partner Huddleon with Sports Radio. Huddle is leveling
the playing field for women in sports, both through the technology they create and
important events like Breakthrough Summit, cohosted and co created with week Coach.
(00:34):
All podcasts episodes are inspired by collectiveinput from our Week Coach community. Please
join us every two weeks for thoughtprovoking discussions focused on timely topics of national
significance impacting the coaching profession. I'llbe your host, Vanessa Fuchs, CEO
of Week Coach, a one ofa kind nonprofit dedicated to offering year round
(00:56):
growth and leadership development to recruit,advance, and retain women coaches in all
sports and levels. This podcast isa co production of WHIS Sports Radio and
Week Coach. Being my first episode, I must give a shout out to
our WHIS partner and podcast producer ChrisStafford. Chris, I can't thank you
(01:19):
enough for all of your support andgetting us to our first recording. Whip
Sports Radio is the world's largest podcastnetwork for women's sports with over two million
listeners. We look forward to bringingyou new shows dropping every other Thursday.
This is now month three for mewith Week Coach, and with this being
my first podcast episode, I thoughtit would be fitting to have two of
(01:42):
my very special people who've had atremendous influence on my life, my coach
and my teammate. My first dayon the job with Week Coach was the
same day my college coach, coachSue Samrau, announced her retirement from Florida
State University after twenty five years,and my second week at Week Coach,
my former college teammate and roommate offour years, Brook Wykoff, was announced
(02:04):
as the new head coach at FloridaState. I'm honored that you both are
my first guests and I can't thankyou enough for the support you've offered to
me. Welcome to the show,Sue and Brooke. Thanks be so great
to be here. It's surreal,Vanessa, I'll tell you this time and
this podcast is really near and dearto my heart. Well, I've been
(02:27):
having a blast over the last coupleof months. We're thrilled to have our
podcast relaunched and certainly means a lotto me that you both have joined as
my very first guests, and Suewe'll kick it off. I first wanted
to just talk about you become ahead becoming a head coach in your young
thirties. I like to say thatwe came in as freshmen together. Brooke
(02:47):
and I were freshmen playing for Sueher very first season at Florida State,
and it was your first and onlyhead coaching job. So could you talk
about, besides winning, Sue,what were some of the keys that allowed
you to remain at the same institutionfor the duration of your twenty five year
head coaching career. Well, Vanessa, twenty five years ago was a long
(03:13):
time ago, and so I don'teven know that you know this, but
I was a head coach at thecollege level at a Division three college before
coming to Florida State. I feltlike I kind of cut my teeth there
at Occidental College in Los Angeles afterbeing a high school assistant coach and jumped
(03:38):
right in while I was getting mymaster's degree at the University of Southern California.
So you know, but certainly didn'texpect the jump to Division one head
coaching as quickly as it came.But I cut my teeth a long time
with coaching two sports at Occidental andthen as an assistant coach for another six
(04:05):
years. So it was ten yearsin coaching before I was able to step
into the position at Florida State.And I will say that the key for
me was just believing that there wasalways more than what was in front of
(04:26):
me. And the people that Iheard early on surround yourself with great people,
and the people that I was surroundedwith were fantastic, and I think
saw the vision that I had forFlorida State and worked extremely hard to create
(04:49):
opportunities for that vision too. Werepart of that. I mean from day
one, you know, I didn'tget a chance to recruit you to floor
to State, and I show upand here these three amazing freshmen that I
had nothing to do with your recruitmentprocess, but was really had the gift
(05:14):
of being able to for four yearsdo that freshman, sophomore, junior,
senior year together. So it wasan awful lot of fun. You finished
at Florida State as the all timewinnings women's basketball coach in school history,
and you certainly left many legacies,lots of winning. But I've really find
(05:35):
it impressive to your coaching tree,and I want to talk a little bit
about some of the things you didthroughout your career to help raise up our
next generation of coaches. You wouldalways I remember a host at the Final
Fours receptions and gatherings for those ofthose coaches who worked with you and have
(05:59):
now gone on to continue their coachingcareer at other stops. You certainly poured
into Brooke and have been a primaryreason that she's had an opportunity like she
does to now lead Florida States program. Talk about the importance of current coaches
helping to build the pipeline of futurecoaches and what were some strategies that you
(06:23):
utilized to help encourage particularly women toget into the coaching profession. But you
know, I mentioned earlier about thequality of people that I was fortunate enough
to surround myself with. And soif you have that quality of people,
you want to pour into them.And so you watch their desire to progress
(06:48):
and to grow into another level inthis profession, and so really just watching
that makes you want to pour intointo people that have such passion and purpose,
and so being able to do thatwas just a gift who was really
(07:14):
part of the biggest joy of coachingthat and being able to pour into the
student athletes who want to be partof helping them to do what it is
they want to do. And alot of times that means listening to them,
you know, just different different playerswanted to do different things. So
(07:39):
listening to coaches and seeing graduate assistantscome in and then not thinking they had
any desire in coaching. I didn'tthink Brooke had any desire to coach,
but then having them come in andlisten and having them get excited about it
and try to give them an opportunityto prepare for the next step. It's
just it's been a thrill to watchthem go out and be highly successful because
(08:05):
of who they are. So good. I wanted to also ask you.
I remember our very first team meetingas freshmen and when you came in sharing
with us your philosophy that you weregoing to treat us as people first,
students second, and athletes third.And you really got an opportunity during the
(08:28):
twenty one season to live that outwhen you made the decision to step away
from coaching to focus on you andyour family. So first I want an
update to hear how your mom Rosemary, Hi, Jerry and Rosemary, we
love you how Rosemary is doing.But then can you share a little bit
about that decision of taking some timeaway from coaching. Was there anything you
(08:52):
learned during that year. I firstwant to say that one of the biggest
gifts that I have been even isthe opportunity to listen to former student athletes
speak those words Vanessa, you know, just knowing that that really is what
we were about. That it wasabout the person first. And Angel Gray,
(09:16):
who played for me at Florida State, was doing a shout out for
some things we're doing at Florida State, and it just spilled out of her
mouth and I just thought, gosh, you know that is the people that
have been around Florida's State continuing toecho that message. And so that message
(09:37):
echoed for me during that time.Yeah, this I need to put my
money where my mouth is here.You know that if I'm saying that we
are going to cultivate the person first, how can I not be an example
(09:58):
of that to my own family?And so it was just like having coaches
around you that that every single dayyou look at them and they hold you
accountable. They don't say anything,but they know the mission, they know
the vision, and so I'm lookingmyself in the mirror, I'm looking at
(10:20):
my family, and I'm saying,am I going to put this first?
Am I going to put people first? And so the decision was already made
through years and years of living thisthis mission. But my mom's doing great.
(10:41):
It was best decision I've ever madein my life to have that opportunity
to spend time with her. Igot to spend probably what ten days,
two weeks a year with her upuntil this time, and so it was
great and she's doing fantastic, andI'm very, very thankful for that,
and we are as well. Rosemaryand Jerry are found often on the sidelines
(11:03):
at Florida State women's basketball games overthe years, and so we're thrilled to
hear she's doing well in her recovery. Brooke, I wanted to talk a
little bit about you. I can'tsay enough how thrilled I am for you
and Florida State that you're now atthe Helm and you're now leading as a
first time head coach the same program. Are you enjoyed a highly decorated playing
(11:28):
career. I mean, your jerseyis hanging in the rafters of the Tucker
Center discuss how you've spent your timefocused, your time recently after taking over
the reins and what's helped you themost. You were able to serve as
interim head coach during the twenty twentytwenty one year when Sue took a sabbatical,
what helped you the most from thatexperience that now will translate now that
(11:50):
you're the full time permanent head coach. Well, first of all, let
me just officially say an echo youwhat cook Sue have been saying that this
is such an awesome, um timejust to be on on this amazing podcast,
UM with you Vanessa and with CoachSue, and um, just reminiscing
(12:11):
back over all these years and howproud I am of of all of us
and of you Vanessa for what you'redoing, and just so thankful for Coach
Sue and proud of her as well. But UM, you know this,
just stepping into this position uh twomonths ago is a lot different, um
(12:33):
than what it was like to bethe interim head coach in the twenty twenty
twenty twenty one season. Um,that was the COVID year where we were,
um, you know, just underheavy, heavy COVID restrictions, UM,
playing in front of no fans andhaving games canceled left and right.
So that experience, UM it waswas great in the sense of, you
(12:58):
know, you're in charge of something, UM, it's pretty much all on
you as an interim head coach,although the program was still coach sues and
um it ultimately was going to fallon her whenever I went on, but
UM I was I was left incharge. UM. So just being you
know, the person that on inthe day to day things that you come
(13:20):
in to the office or you comeinto the gym, you know, everyone
is looking at you, uh tosay, to see you know, what's
today going to be? Like youknow it was. It was a great
opportunity to be that person in theday to day to set the tone UM
(13:41):
and and doing that during the COVIDseason was a lot different, um in
some ways more difficult, in someways easier um than it is now as
we're all you know, more orless back to normal, UM, back
to normal life. So I'm thankfulfor that, just having that opportunity to
(14:01):
live in the day to day ofyou know, all eyes on you all
years, listening to what you're goingto say, and your words meaning a
little bit more than they do asan assistant. But since I've taken this
this role two months ago, um, you know, to be honest,
it's been about recruiting, and it'sbeen about rerecruiting the players that were already
(14:26):
on a roster um, dealing withtransferring out, dealing with recruiting transfers to
come in, and and just literallyI can't. I just that's really what
it's been. M I am veryblessed to you know, be coming into
(14:46):
this new role in a place whereI'm not starting from ground zero. I
didn't have to hire a whole newstaff. The majority of our staff stayed
on and I'm so thankful for that. And again that's a that's a tribute
to coach Suit again surrounding herself withgreat people and building up a foundation of
a staff and a program that Iget to just kind of walk into and
(15:13):
hopefully build on and move forward.But I'm very very fortunate not to have
to have dealt with, you know, coming in and you know, starting
from from scratch with everybody around me. So that's really allowed me to to
and the rest of the staff forus to really focus on, you know,
what's our team going to look likenext year in terms of personnel and
(15:33):
pouring into those those players that arestill here and really developing relationships with those
that are new and incoming. Youknow, you mentioned the focus on recruiting.
I want to go back to that. At the time you were announced,
like many programs are facing around thecountry, there were some players who
opted to enter the NCAA Transfer Portal. This is a huge topic of conversation
(15:56):
amongst our week coach community, andI was just curious to hear how did
you handle that? What are whatare the messages you're trying to convey to
your players in those moments, inthose conversations when they come to you and
express that they're leaning towards considering transferring. How do you handle those moments?
(16:22):
Yeah, well, the first thingto to to understand, and again it's
a learning process. I'm not gonnasay that I have it all figured out
and handled every situation perfectly. Um, you know, I'm learning every single
day how to navigate what really isa new normal for all of us in
(16:45):
this profession. With the transfer portaland the not only the transfer portal,
but the one time transfer waiver thatreally changed everything that student athletes can go
and play a meeting at least anywhere, you know, in conference even and
that is so different and new andUM. So really, what what I've
(17:08):
learned is that just taking it situationby situation, every player is different.
They are coming to you for differentreasons. UM. They are coming from
you know, a place of evenmaybe they haven't played as much as they
wanted to. UM, maybe they'rejust looking for something different. They've they've
graduated and UM, you know,from from our institution, and they just
(17:33):
want to try something else with thatfifth year, that COVID year they have.
UM. Maybe you know, itcould be for all kinds of reasons.
And that's what we're finding out isthat there is no formula to this.
UM. There is there's no easysolution, and the reality of it
is going to hurt, you know. And this is this is a business.
(17:56):
But like we've talked about from thetop of the show and what Coach
do instilled us for twenty five yearsago that this is about relationships. This
is about people first, and that'show it's been here at Florida State.
And when you're dealing with young people, it has to be about relationships to
some degree, you know, andso when it comes time to have these
(18:21):
conversations, hard conversations, there's gonnabe some some there's an emotional side to
it on both sides, and sothat's okay. And then you know,
we acknowledge that and then we moveforward as best we can in different directions
or in the same direction. Ifthose conversations lead to okay, we're good
(18:45):
and we're going to continue together hereat Florida State. So you know,
it's been navigating that, the emotionalups and downs of it, coming to
terms with the fact that this isthe new normal and everybody's pretty much in
the same boat across the country,UM and realize looking at it as as
an opportunity, you know, aspeople move on and do different things that
(19:08):
everybody has their own choice. Nowlet's look at this opportunity to to bring
UH student athletes in that are goingto UM move us forward in a different
way, or bring a different skillset or UM bring you know, a
new personality or background to our toour program and provide UM, you know,
(19:30):
light in that way. You know, because it's an opportunity for these
student athletes that are moving on,they're looking at it as that as well,
something new, something different. Soum, that's how we're approaching it.
Here We Coach Podcast will be rightback after this commercial break. As
(19:56):
I listen to you talk about thedifferences in each one of these student athletes
that you're leading, it reminds meof something I learned from a coach several
years ago at a summit, acoaching summit that I was attending. A
coach said, there's a flaw inthe golden rule. It's not treat people
how you prefer to be treated.We really need to strive as human beings
(20:18):
to treat people how they prefer tobe treated. And I think especially coaches
in your role, that's so importantto learn the individual differences in each one
of these people that you're coaching,and then try to build those relationships around
those differences and flex your style toaccommodate and and and best resonate with the
(20:45):
different student athletes that you're working withday to day. I wanted to go
back to you're announced as the newhead coach. Next is usually the contract
negotiation process. This is something thata lot of our coaches reach out to
me and to our staff to askfor advice. What are the things they
(21:07):
need to be thinking about. Whatmight they not be aware of, what
might be a strategy going into thosenegotiations. So I was just wondering,
Brooke, if you had any advicefor our week coach community on your experience
with contract negotiations and was there anythingthat you weren't aware of that or that
(21:27):
you didn't anticipate that you had towork through. Yeah, it's that has
been an interesting experience and one Ididn't really have to address my first time
as interim head coach. It wasthere was no major you know, contract
negotiation then. So UM, yeah, on top of everything you're dealing with
(21:48):
of of being announced and trying toget things set in motion, UM,
you have this contract negotiation that iscomplicated at times, and and uh,
what I've learned, um really throughthe process is that it is good to
have UM an advocate, someone adifferent voice, UM if you can.
(22:11):
I as as I love our ourathletic director, we have a great relationship
in Michael Awford, and and hehas been has been amazing in this whole
process with me. UM. Thatbeing said, I still you know,
wasn't comfortable and necessarily UM negotiating onmy behalf for some things that I felt
(22:32):
were important to me and to towhat we needed here, um, you
know, for women's basketball. UM. And so that's why I have an
agent. I use an agent,and I think in women's basketball especially that's
become more and more common, umfor coaches and assistant coaches to have an
agent, um. And not justto you know, do contract negotiations.
(22:56):
But really my agent has helped me, um, you know, with professional
development and preparing for interviews and andjust a sounding board um you know,
throughout the last few years as I'man assistant thinking about, um becoming a
head coach someday. So when itcame time for you know, to for
a contract uh negotiations, I wantedto have somebody there to negotiate on my
(23:22):
behalf UM things that uh you know, there were things that I hadn't thought
about or or had really had anyum you know basis of like just to
even know if it was good orbad. Something like a buyout, you
know, UM, something like thosetypes of things like what does what does
(23:42):
a buyout? How much should thatbe? Um? You know, those
types of things or or if ifI were to um you know, on
both sides of it. You know, like if I if I were to
if they were to go in adifferent direction here, or if I were
to want to take another job somewhereelse, Like what are those numbers?
How do those numbers line up?The importance of the amount of years on
(24:04):
your contract and what that means inrecruiting, And because it does everyone you
know on the administration side, Itjust everyone has their different opinion and view
of how this thing works in termsof what a contract means, not only
do the person that's signing it andgetting paid by it, but what it
(24:26):
means to the outside world, whatit means to assistance you're trying to bring
in, what your contract means topeople you're trying to recruit. Um,
you just don't really think about thator feel that weight when you're an assistant
coach, and how just that perceptionof what your contract looks like and says,
(24:48):
how that's viewed, and how howpeople view your program in general because
of it. So those will bethe things I would say is just you
know, have somebody that you thatcan advocate on your behalf so you don't
have to have those hard conversations umnecessarily about the nitty gritty of a contractum
and also just you know, justtaking your time and being able to really
(25:14):
understand you're you're non negotiable so tospeak, like what kinds of things are
you you know, for example,like are you willing to take less money
and salary you know, for anotheryear on a contract or are you willing
to um, you know, giveup this to to really get that and
again knowing what's important, what you'regoing to need for your program, what's
(25:37):
important to you um. And it'sbecause it's not just about like, oh
how much am I going to getpaid every year? You know, it's
so much more than that. Soit really helps to have somebody like an
agent in your corner explaining these thingsto you and advocating on your behalf.
Vanessa, I would I would jumpin an echo what Brooks saying. It
(26:00):
is extremely difficult to defend your ownintegrity, and especially when you are supposed
to be in a positive relationship withan athletic director who is presenting this contract
to you. So that interim personit used to be back when I started
(26:21):
that the athletic director didn't work withagents, and so the reason I had
an agent was to look over afourteen page contract that I didn't understand anything
about. I do think it's it'sreally valuable. I had an older coach
who is interested in maybe moving toanother school at some point call me and
(26:44):
say, hey, help me understandsan agent important? I'm thinking yes,
yes, yes, yes, Sothat is a question, and I think
a lot of people that are apart of week coach do need great guidance
in the area. You both mentionedthe importance of an advocate, and that's
some really good insight that you bothshared. Thank you for that. Brooke,
(27:07):
you certainly had an advocate in Sueover the years, and Sue,
I was wondering if you'd share alittle bit about some of the intentional ways
that you were best positioning Brooke forthe opportunity, such as to lead the
Florida State program. What were someof the things that you either delegated to
(27:30):
Brooke to handle for the program.And then also once she was announced and
it was determined that she would benext in line to lead, what was
some advice that you gave her asshe was transitioning into the permanent role.
Well, I took a page outof Coach Bowden's book Honestly, he was
such a great mentor and caregiver tome, and I really saw the way
(27:56):
that he directed things, and Ithought, gosh, I can't this work
for women's basketball, to have anoffensive coordinator a defensive coordinator. We always
had a recruiting coordinator and that wassomething that I remember serving in. But
as soon as I was able tofigure out how to do that and remain
(28:18):
involved in the way that I neededto on the court, I think the
best thing that I was able todo was to bring in someone to be
a recruiting coordinator. And Brooke camein and was a recruiting coordinator by fire.
I mean, it was just like, look, this is what we're
going to do. This is we'regoing to how we're going to do it.
And she did a phenomenal job.I mean, both of you two
(28:41):
where are so intelligent, and it'sit's your passion and intelligence that I knew
made me know for both of youthat you could do anything you wanted to.
And so you go from recruiting coordinatorto the defensive coordinator, and she
did a phenomenal job with lot.I mean, just because really that was
(29:03):
her passion. I couldn't get herto shoot the ball if you can remember
of an SS, so you know, to get somebody who was the all
time leader and blocks at that point, who would fly all over the floor,
to have a passion, and toteach the defensive system that we had
in place to tweak it when shesaw fit that those types of experiences where
(29:26):
you trust the individual, you followup behind you, you challenge the dog
out of them, and at thesame time really try to be encouraging.
I think it was really important inthe growth of any of my assistants then
to move into the into the offensivecoordination spot. And because I do think
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that that piece of it is themost delicate, it's the most strategic.
It's yeah, if you can't score, you can't win. Now, I'm
I'm a coach who goes back tothose first two and thinks those are the
most important foundationally. But if youdon't have somebody that can help you to
put players into a position to scoreonce you've gotten stops, then you know,
(30:14):
that's you know, just tough.So you know, Brooke was able
to do all three of those ata high level, and then during the
COVID year, handle budget, handlehuge decisions. I think she handled COVID
far better than I would have handledCOVID. And then last year, knowing
coming back that I needed to notjust come and reinsert myself, and it
(30:40):
was really hard to not do thiswith my personality. But I've always wanted
to be you know, I've alwayswanted to be different than who I was
as a coach, and this gaveme an opportunity to try. And I
think it gave me an opportunity tostep back in some ways and let Brooke
take over some of the day today in the real time, not necessarily
(31:03):
COVID time. But through all that, I think the most important thing is
that to encourage coaches to do ittheir way and to do it with their
personality, and Brooke just needs tobe who she is and she will be
highly successful. It's she doesn't needto try to to be me or you
(31:27):
or someone else in the coaching professionin order to get it done well.
She needs to be who she isand just put into play the things that
she's learned throughout the years, notjust as a as a coach at Florida
State, but as a as aplayer, you know, through the professional
(31:48):
ranks and all she's learned from allof those different coaches. Well, Brooke,
you've done a phenomenal job certain yourcoaching career and have enjoyed a lot
of success. But I think Ithink it's safe to say one of your
biggest accomplishments is the birth of yourdaughter Avery. Hi, Avery Phoenix and
(32:10):
Frankie miss you. And Avery wasborn in twenty thirteen, So not only
are you now a head coach ata major Division one program, but you're
continuing to build up and raise anincredible I wanted to ask you to share
a little bit about the initiative thatyou started with the WBCA Moms in Coaching,
(32:37):
and is their advice Brook that youcould offer to first time moms who
are also trying to if there issuch a thing, strike a balance between
a career in coaching and also beinga really incredible mother to a son or
daughter at home. Yeah. Well, I first of all, thank you
(33:00):
for the opportunity even I said toto speak on moms and coaching because it's
something that is near and dear tomy heart. And um, I will
say that you know when I whenI was pregnant, UM was when the
idea for mom moms and coaching startedto percolate. UM. I am so
(33:22):
fortunate to as just for so manyreasons, and this was another one.
To be working for coach Sue andto be loved by Coach Sue, that
she was the most supportive, umand understanding and nurturing boss, and in
(33:44):
that moment for me that I couldhave ever dreamed of having um and and
that is something that so many momsor moms to be don't have unfortunately in
a boss or in co workers umand, but many do. And that
makes a huge difference. But eveneven though I had that support from coach
(34:06):
Sue and and from my colleagues,there wasn't anyone that I knew personally or
that I was working with that alsohad kids that was a mother. UM.
We had someone on staff that wasa dad and had kids. But
it's different, you know, It'sobviously just a different role. And so
I began to look around and say, well, I don't who's done this
(34:32):
before. I haven't seen it done. And while I happened to be out
on the road in July, whichis a huge recruiting period for women's basketball,
where you see, you know,every coach in the country while while
we're sitting and watching UM these AUtournaments, and so it was it was
becoming obvious that it was pregnant.And so I had women other coaches coming
(34:55):
out of the woodwork up to melike, oh, you're pregnant, congratulations
and start up a conversation. AndI'm like, yeah, you're a mom,
like you have kids too. Youknow, when we're coaching, obviously
on the sidelines, you don't youdon't see people's kids with them, and
during games, and then when we'reout on the road recruiting, which the
(35:19):
other time we see other coaches,usually we don't have, you know,
our kids with us. So Ihad so many women coming up to me
and saying, yeah, I haveyou know, two kids, I have
one kid, or I have eighteenyear old kids, or I have a
three year old, and began toshare their story and also their advice and
that advice that they were giving me. First of all, it just made
(35:40):
me feel just it was like asigh of relief, just that wow,
you know, thank you, Yes, that advice is I'm going to use
that. But also that there's otherpeople doing this. I'm not alone.
I'm not alone, you know,and that That was the biggest thing that
(36:00):
started me thinking, Okay, ifI'm feeling this, other people had to
be feeling like this. Mothers youknow that had kids of all ages were
saying they still felt like that,you know, and they'd already been living
it out. So we started totalk about, man, if we could
all get into a room together andthen just all talk and support each other
(36:22):
and give advice and just see eachother, how cool would that be.
So that's really where moms and coachingcame out of us, like, we
need to get together again. CoachSue coach Suit of the Rescue. Coach
Sue is the president of the WBCAat the time, and so we had
the WBCA really, you know,and on the forefront of all of our
(36:44):
minds is the is you know,there are organizations that really provide that that
kind of infrastructure where we can getgroups together. And so they were amazing
and allowing us to have a spotat the convention at the Final Four.
And this was now eight years ago, and so every year we've been getting
(37:06):
together at the Final Four as partof the WBC convention and it's just so
cool to see moms in a room, you know, look around and be
like, all these women are doingit too. When I feel like I
can't do it. When I getto that point like how am I going
to get this all done or tomanage I think of those moms in that
room and know that there's the supportout there and other women doing it and
(37:30):
I can do it too. Ilove that, And I can't believe it
was eight years ago. I rememberattending your very first meeting with your Mom's
and coaching group just to kind oflearn from the administrator perspective, you know,
how I could best support you.At the time, I really hadn't
had many women coaches that I wassupervising that had children, So it was
(37:53):
had a tremendous impact on me.And I can tell you, Brooke,
I'm already hearing the volleyball coach isare discussing starting something similar as moms and
coaching for the volleyball coaches out therethat are mothers. So what you're doing
is starting to spread throughout our countryand is offering tremendous support to these women
(38:16):
in coaching. Because you're right thesocial roles between men and women at home
and mothers and the responsibility that usuallyfalls on the mother in terms of taking
care of the young ones. Itdoes present a challenge when you're trying to
maintain and thrive in a profession likecoaching where it's twenty four seven, three
(38:40):
sixty five. Could you share alittle bit, Brooke from your experience at
Florida State, what were maybe someof the best practices in terms of support
that you received. I know youmentioned Sue was a tremendous advocate and supporter
for you. Was there anything thatthe administration provided that you would say should
(39:02):
be a best practice that other schoolsand administrators should think about. Yeah,
I think, um, there's alot of things that that can be done.
And again, this is something wetalk about in moms and coaching that
each institution is so different, UMand we all deal with just a very
uh different landscape from from program toprogram, staff to staff, institution,
(39:29):
institution, UM and so uh itreally you do feel fortunate when you have
people, uh that you work withand people that you work for that um
supportive that can look like a lotof different things. So you know,
some examples, UM of it wouldbe just being able to feel the freedom
(39:52):
honestly that there's not going to bea penalty or hushion for having to attend
to a parenting obligation um and andthat that looks a lot of different ways,
And it starts with, you know, to work for whether if you're
(40:14):
an assistant coach, that's your headcoach, um, if you're a head
coach, that's your your athletic directorand oversight, and really having that trust
there that Okay, I'm not goingto take advantage of this, i am
not going to work you know lessor not take my job as seriously because
I'm a mother, but there arethings that I'm going to need to maybe
(40:37):
not work the same hours as mycounterpart who doesn't have children because my child
has a doctor's appointment or needs toget picked up from school at a certain
time. So it's that having thattrusting relationship um of you know, valuing
the work that I do or thework that we do as others in the
(41:00):
job, and also knowing that we'regoing to get the work done it just
may look a little different. Justfeeling that kind of understanding is huge.
And the other thing too, it'ssimple things as being able to take avery
on a road trip when needed.For example, when I had just come
(41:22):
back from being on a little bitof maternity leave. After I had had
her, took a month off fromfrom actually like being with the team.
I stayed home from well actually Itook two weeks off from just staying home,
and then I started to work myway back into practices and home games.
(41:43):
And then I was about a monthlater, maybe six weeks. Then
I began to travel with the teamagain and for recruiting, and there was
a situation where I needed I wasstill breastfeeding, and so I wanted to
bring her so while I was recruiting, they could watch her and I could
(42:04):
still have her with me and notbe gone for you know, a four
day stretch while it was breastfeeding,and just being able to a have that
opportunity coach to being okay with that, and then the administration being okay with
that, with me bringing her onthe you know, our charter plate and
then traveling with her, that meanta lot to me. And just as
(42:25):
a just my mindset, you know, I mean, I think Avery would
have been fine if I had lefther that long, and you know,
she drinks out of a bottle orwhatever, and someone else watches her.
But my mindset as a mother toknow that she's, you know, six
weeks old, seven weeks old.I don't have to leave her at home
for these four days and I canstill get my job done. Wow.
(42:49):
That meant so much to me andand just helped me be a better coach
in those moments where we were travelingso good. And we're we're working on
right now a toolkit we coach aspart of our resources that we're rolling out
in celebration of the fiftieth anniversary ofTitle nine, a toolkit for administrators best
(43:12):
practices for supporting women in coaching,And certainly there will be a heavy emphasis
on support for mothers in coaching,and a lot of that is inspired through
the work that you've done in theleadership role You've taken, Brooke to help
support other women coaches out there whoare mothers and are also able to really
find tremendous success in the coaching professionwhile also serving as incredible mothers at home
(43:37):
to their young children. We couldtalk all day on that subject, but
I can't thank you enough for yourleadership and the inspiration that you've provided to
me as I'm now leading we coachand I certainly want our organization to be
a national leader and a go toresource for women out there, whether their
(43:59):
first time mother or have our veterancoaches and have several children at home.
We want to be a resource tosupport mothers and coaching. So thank you
for everything that you've done. We'rewinding down on time here, but I
would like to close out every podcastwith this question. Obviously, we Coach
we exist to help elevate, recruitand advance women and coaching, and I
(44:28):
was just curious if Sue and Brooke, if you had thoughts on how we
can move the numbers in terms ofsupporting and increasing the number of women and
coaches and women coaches in all sportsand levels. We're coming to toss it
to you first. Okay, Well, I'll just continue really quickly with the
line of the topic of conversation ofthe moms and coaching, the peace and
(44:53):
venus. I'm so thankful that weCoach is an organization that values that and
it's providing resources and to administrations andtwo coaches on what you know supporting mothers.
And I want to say just quicklywhy supporting mothers and coaching is so
(45:14):
important to our profession. It's notjust important to the mothers, you know,
for them to feel good and tobe able to have a job and
achieve, you know, do allof the things we want to do.
I believe in one of the biggestthings behind why we have moms and coaching
as well, is that it's importantto women's sports. It's important to sports
(45:35):
and the impact that sports has ultimatelyon our society. When we see,
um, people of all different backgroundswalks of life involved in our sports,
it's good for society. When peoplefeel supported and no matter where they're coming
from or what their lifestyle situation is, um, it's good for sports and
(45:59):
it's good for society. So that'swhen mothers are supported in this profession,
that means women will continue to coach. That will move the numbers of women
in coaching women in sports, whichagain is great for our student athletes to
have women mentoring them, to keepwomen in a mentorship position where they're emulating
(46:22):
what it looks like to be agreat mother and to have a great career
where they are those resources for ouryoung people to go to in all kinds
of situations. It's just great tohave that support because it's good for our
sports and for society. And Ibelieve that that support moves the numbers of
(46:43):
women in coaching and in sports.I can't think of a better way to
end my very first podcast than onthat note. If she can see her,
she can be her. Well said, and thank you for those thoughts,
and thank you coach Sue and Brookeagain for being with us today.
(47:06):
Really excited to have you on myvery first podcast episode. And thanks to
those of you listening We Coach Podcast. Thank you again to our sponsor,
Huddle and production partner WHISP Sports.Please join us again on June twenty third,
the fiftieth anniversary of Title nine,for a discussion with coaches who've authored
chapters in an exciting book that wasjust released, Winning Ways of Women Coaches,
(47:30):
featuring twenty of the most remarkable womencoaches in the world. Follow us
and share your comments on Twitter atwe coach and at wissports, or on
Facebook at we Coach sports and atWIS Sports. Interested in learning more about
any of our upcoming events, resources, membership and donor options, please visit
(47:51):
our website at we Coach sports dotorg. Until next time, keep moving
the numbers. We teach, weinspire, we motivate, we lead we coach
Hello everyone, and welcome to seasonfive, Episode one of the Week Coach
podcast, presented by our partner Huddleon with Sports Radio. Huddle is leveling
the playing field for women in sports, both through the technology they create and
important events like Breakthrough Summit, cohosted and co created with week Coach.
(00:34):
All podcasts episodes are inspired by collectiveinput from our Week Coach community. Please
join us every two weeks for thoughtprovoking discussions focused on timely topics of national
significance impacting the coaching profession. I'llbe your host, Vanessa Fuchs, CEO
of Week Coach, a one ofa kind nonprofit dedicated to offering year round
(00:56):
growth and leadership development to recruit,advance, and retain women coaches in all
sports and levels. This podcast isa co production of WHIS Sports Radio and
Week Coach. Being my first episode, I must give a shout out to
our WHIS partner and podcast producer ChrisStafford. Chris, I can't thank you
(01:19):
enough for all of your support andgetting us to our first recording. Whip
Sports Radio is the world's largest podcastnetwork for women's sports with over two million
listeners. We look forward to bringingyou new shows dropping every other Thursday.
This is now month three for mewith Week Coach, and with this being
my first podcast episode, I thoughtit would be fitting to have two of
(01:42):
my very special people who've had atremendous influence on my life, my coach
and my teammate. My first dayon the job with Week Coach was the
same day my college coach, coachSue Samrau, announced her retirement from Florida
State University after twenty five years,and my second week at Week Coach,
my former college teammate and roommate offour years, Brook Wykoff, was announced
(02:04):
as the new head coach at FloridaState. I'm honored that you both are
my first guests and I can't thankyou enough for the support you've offered to
me. Welcome to the show,Sue and Brooke. Thanks be so great
to be here. It's surreal,Vanessa, I'll tell you this time and
this podcast is really near and dearto my heart. Well, I've been
(02:27):
having a blast over the last coupleof months. We're thrilled to have our
podcast relaunched and certainly means a lotto me that you both have joined as
my very first guests, and Suewe'll kick it off. I first wanted
to just talk about you become ahead becoming a head coach in your young
thirties. I like to say thatwe came in as freshmen together. Brooke
(02:47):
and I were freshmen playing for Sueher very first season at Florida State,
and it was your first and onlyhead coaching job. So could you talk
about, besides winning, Sue,what were some of the keys that allowed
you to remain at the same institutionfor the duration of your twenty five year
head coaching career. Well, Vanessa, twenty five years ago was a long
(03:13):
time ago, and so I don'teven know that you know this, but
I was a head coach at thecollege level at a Division three college before
coming to Florida State. I feltlike I kind of cut my teeth there
at Occidental College in Los Angeles afterbeing a high school assistant coach and jumped
(03:38):
right in while I was getting mymaster's degree at the University of Southern California.
So you know, but certainly didn'texpect the jump to Division one head
coaching as quickly as it came.But I cut my teeth a long time
with coaching two sports at Occidental andthen as an assistant coach for another six
(04:05):
years. So it was ten yearsin coaching before I was able to step
into the position at Florida State.And I will say that the key for
me was just believing that there wasalways more than what was in front of
(04:26):
me. And the people that Iheard early on surround yourself with great people,
and the people that I was surroundedwith were fantastic, and I think
saw the vision that I had forFlorida State and worked extremely hard to create
(04:49):
opportunities for that vision too. Werepart of that. I mean from day
one, you know, I didn'tget a chance to recruit you to floor
to State, and I show upand here these three amazing freshmen that I
had nothing to do with your recruitmentprocess, but was really had the gift
(05:14):
of being able to for four yearsdo that freshman, sophomore, junior,
senior year together. So it wasan awful lot of fun. You finished
at Florida State as the all timewinnings women's basketball coach in school history,
and you certainly left many legacies,lots of winning. But I've really find
(05:35):
it impressive to your coaching tree,and I want to talk a little bit
about some of the things you didthroughout your career to help raise up our
next generation of coaches. You wouldalways I remember a host at the Final
Fours receptions and gatherings for those ofthose coaches who worked with you and have
(05:59):
now gone on to continue their coachingcareer at other stops. You certainly poured
into Brooke and have been a primaryreason that she's had an opportunity like she
does to now lead Florida States program. Talk about the importance of current coaches
helping to build the pipeline of futurecoaches and what were some strategies that you
(06:23):
utilized to help encourage particularly women toget into the coaching profession. But you
know, I mentioned earlier about thequality of people that I was fortunate enough
to surround myself with. And soif you have that quality of people,
you want to pour into them.And so you watch their desire to progress
(06:48):
and to grow into another level inthis profession, and so really just watching
that makes you want to pour intointo people that have such passion and purpose,
and so being able to do thatwas just a gift who was really
(07:14):
part of the biggest joy of coachingthat and being able to pour into the
student athletes who want to be partof helping them to do what it is
they want to do. And alot of times that means listening to them,
you know, just different different playerswanted to do different things. So
(07:39):
listening to coaches and seeing graduate assistantscome in and then not thinking they had
any desire in coaching. I didn'tthink Brooke had any desire to coach,
but then having them come in andlisten and having them get excited about it
and try to give them an opportunityto prepare for the next step. It's
just it's been a thrill to watchthem go out and be highly successful because
(08:05):
of who they are. So good. I wanted to also ask you.
I remember our very first team meetingas freshmen and when you came in sharing
with us your philosophy that you weregoing to treat us as people first,
students second, and athletes third.And you really got an opportunity during the
(08:28):
twenty one season to live that outwhen you made the decision to step away
from coaching to focus on you andyour family. So first I want an
update to hear how your mom Rosemary, Hi, Jerry and Rosemary, we
love you how Rosemary is doing.But then can you share a little bit
about that decision of taking some timeaway from coaching. Was there anything you
(08:52):
learned during that year. I firstwant to say that one of the biggest
gifts that I have been even isthe opportunity to listen to former student athletes
speak those words Vanessa, you know, just knowing that that really is what
we were about. That it wasabout the person first. And Angel Gray,
(09:16):
who played for me at Florida State, was doing a shout out for
some things we're doing at Florida State, and it just spilled out of her
mouth and I just thought, gosh, you know that is the people that
have been around Florida's State continuing toecho that message. And so that message
(09:37):
echoed for me during that time.Yeah, this I need to put my
money where my mouth is here.You know that if I'm saying that we
are going to cultivate the person first, how can I not be an example
(09:58):
of that to my own family?And so it was just like having coaches
around you that that every single dayyou look at them and they hold you
accountable. They don't say anything,but they know the mission, they know
the vision, and so I'm lookingmyself in the mirror, I'm looking at
(10:20):
my family, and I'm saying,am I going to put this first?
Am I going to put people first? And so the decision was already made
through years and years of living thisthis mission. But my mom's doing great.
(10:41):
It was best decision I've ever madein my life to have that opportunity
to spend time with her. Igot to spend probably what ten days,
two weeks a year with her upuntil this time, and so it was
great and she's doing fantastic, andI'm very, very thankful for that,
and we are as well. Rosemaryand Jerry are found often on the sidelines
(11:03):
at Florida State women's basketball games overthe years, and so we're thrilled to
hear she's doing well in her recovery. Brooke, I wanted to talk a
little bit about you. I can'tsay enough how thrilled I am for you
and Florida State that you're now atthe Helm and you're now leading as a
first time head coach the same program. Are you enjoyed a highly decorated playing
(11:28):
career. I mean, your jerseyis hanging in the rafters of the Tucker
Center discuss how you've spent your timefocused, your time recently after taking over
the reins and what's helped you themost. You were able to serve as
interim head coach during the twenty twentytwenty one year when Sue took a sabbatical,
what helped you the most from thatexperience that now will translate now that
(11:50):
you're the full time permanent head coach. Well, first of all, let
me just officially say an echo youwhat cook Sue have been saying that this
is such an awesome, um timejust to be on on this amazing podcast,
UM with you Vanessa and with CoachSue, and um, just reminiscing
(12:11):
back over all these years and howproud I am of of all of us
and of you Vanessa for what you'redoing, and just so thankful for Coach
Sue and proud of her as well. But UM, you know this,
just stepping into this position uh twomonths ago is a lot different, um
(12:33):
than what it was like to bethe interim head coach in the twenty twenty
twenty twenty one season. Um,that was the COVID year where we were,
um, you know, just underheavy, heavy COVID restrictions, UM,
playing in front of no fans andhaving games canceled left and right.
So that experience, UM it waswas great in the sense of, you
(12:58):
know, you're in charge of something, UM, it's pretty much all on
you as an interim head coach,although the program was still coach sues and
um it ultimately was going to fallon her whenever I went on, but
UM I was I was left incharge. UM. So just being you
know, the person that on inthe day to day things that you come
(13:20):
in to the office or you comeinto the gym, you know, everyone
is looking at you, uh tosay, to see you know, what's
today going to be? Like youknow it was. It was a great
opportunity to be that person in theday to day to set the tone UM
(13:41):
and and doing that during the COVIDseason was a lot different, um in
some ways more difficult, in someways easier um than it is now as
we're all you know, more orless back to normal, UM, back
to normal life. So I'm thankfulfor that, just having that opportunity to
(14:01):
live in the day to day ofyou know, all eyes on you all
years, listening to what you're goingto say, and your words meaning a
little bit more than they do asan assistant. But since I've taken this
this role two months ago, um, you know, to be honest,
it's been about recruiting, and it'sbeen about rerecruiting the players that were already
(14:26):
on a roster um, dealing withtransferring out, dealing with recruiting transfers to
come in, and and just literallyI can't. I just that's really what
it's been. M I am veryblessed to you know, be coming into
(14:46):
this new role in a place whereI'm not starting from ground zero. I
didn't have to hire a whole newstaff. The majority of our staff stayed
on and I'm so thankful for that. And again that's a that's a tribute
to coach Suit again surrounding herself withgreat people and building up a foundation of
a staff and a program that Iget to just kind of walk into and
(15:13):
hopefully build on and move forward.But I'm very very fortunate not to have
to have dealt with, you know, coming in and you know, starting
from from scratch with everybody around me. So that's really allowed me to to
and the rest of the staff forus to really focus on, you know,
what's our team going to look likenext year in terms of personnel and
(15:33):
pouring into those those players that arestill here and really developing relationships with those
that are new and incoming. Youknow, you mentioned the focus on recruiting.
I want to go back to that. At the time you were announced,
like many programs are facing around thecountry, there were some players who
opted to enter the NCAA Transfer Portal. This is a huge topic of conversation
(15:56):
amongst our week coach community, andI was just curious to hear how did
you handle that? What are whatare the messages you're trying to convey to
your players in those moments, inthose conversations when they come to you and
express that they're leaning towards considering transferring. How do you handle those moments?
(16:22):
Yeah, well, the first thingto to to understand, and again it's
a learning process. I'm not gonnasay that I have it all figured out
and handled every situation perfectly. Um, you know, I'm learning every single
day how to navigate what really isa new normal for all of us in
(16:45):
this profession. With the transfer portaland the not only the transfer portal,
but the one time transfer waiver thatreally changed everything that student athletes can go
and play a meeting at least anywhere, you know, in conference even and
that is so different and new andUM. So really, what what I've
(17:08):
learned is that just taking it situationby situation, every player is different.
They are coming to you for differentreasons. UM. They are coming from
you know, a place of evenmaybe they haven't played as much as they
wanted to. UM, maybe they'rejust looking for something different. They've they've
graduated and UM, you know,from from our institution, and they just
(17:33):
want to try something else with thatfifth year, that COVID year they have.
UM. Maybe you know, itcould be for all kinds of reasons.
And that's what we're finding out isthat there is no formula to this.
UM. There is there's no easysolution, and the reality of it
is going to hurt, you know. And this is this is a business.
(17:56):
But like we've talked about from thetop of the show and what Coach
do instilled us for twenty five yearsago that this is about relationships. This
is about people first, and that'show it's been here at Florida State.
And when you're dealing with young people, it has to be about relationships to
some degree, you know, andso when it comes time to have these
(18:21):
conversations, hard conversations, there's gonnabe some some there's an emotional side to
it on both sides, and sothat's okay. And then you know,
we acknowledge that and then we moveforward as best we can in different directions
or in the same direction. Ifthose conversations lead to okay, we're good
(18:45):
and we're going to continue together hereat Florida State. So you know,
it's been navigating that, the emotionalups and downs of it, coming to
terms with the fact that this isthe new normal and everybody's pretty much in
the same boat across the country,UM and realize looking at it as as
an opportunity, you know, aspeople move on and do different things that
(19:08):
everybody has their own choice. Nowlet's look at this opportunity to to bring
UH student athletes in that are goingto UM move us forward in a different
way, or bring a different skillset or UM bring you know, a
new personality or background to our toour program and provide UM, you know,
(19:30):
light in that way. You know, because it's an opportunity for these
student athletes that are moving on,they're looking at it as that as well,
something new, something different. Soum, that's how we're approaching it.
Here We Coach Podcast will be rightback after this commercial break. As
(19:56):
I listen to you talk about thedifferences in each one of these student athletes
that you're leading, it reminds meof something I learned from a coach several
years ago at a summit, acoaching summit that I was attending. A
coach said, there's a flaw inthe golden rule. It's not treat people
how you prefer to be treated.We really need to strive as human beings
(20:18):
to treat people how they prefer tobe treated. And I think especially coaches
in your role, that's so importantto learn the individual differences in each one
of these people that you're coaching,and then try to build those relationships around
those differences and flex your style toaccommodate and and and best resonate with the
(20:45):
different student athletes that you're working withday to day. I wanted to go
back to you're announced as the newhead coach. Next is usually the contract
negotiation process. This is something thata lot of our coaches reach out to
me and to our staff to askfor advice. What are the things they
(21:07):
need to be thinking about. Whatmight they not be aware of, what
might be a strategy going into thosenegotiations. So I was just wondering,
Brooke, if you had any advicefor our week coach community on your experience
with contract negotiations and was there anythingthat you weren't aware of that or that
(21:27):
you didn't anticipate that you had towork through. Yeah, it's that has
been an interesting experience and one Ididn't really have to address my first time
as interim head coach. It wasthere was no major you know, contract
negotiation then. So UM, yeah, on top of everything you're dealing with
(21:48):
of of being announced and trying toget things set in motion, UM,
you have this contract negotiation that iscomplicated at times, and and uh,
what I've learned, um really throughthe process is that it is good to
have UM an advocate, someone adifferent voice, UM if you can.
(22:11):
I as as I love our ourathletic director, we have a great relationship
in Michael Awford, and and hehas been has been amazing in this whole
process with me. UM. Thatbeing said, I still you know,
wasn't comfortable and necessarily UM negotiating onmy behalf for some things that I felt
(22:32):
were important to me and to towhat we needed here, um, you
know, for women's basketball. UM. And so that's why I have an
agent. I use an agent,and I think in women's basketball especially that's
become more and more common, umfor coaches and assistant coaches to have an
agent, um. And not justto you know, do contract negotiations.
(22:56):
But really my agent has helped me, um, you know, with professional
development and preparing for interviews and andjust a sounding board um you know,
throughout the last few years as I'man assistant thinking about, um becoming a
head coach someday. So when itcame time for you know, to for
a contract uh negotiations, I wantedto have somebody there to negotiate on my
(23:22):
behalf UM things that uh you know, there were things that I hadn't thought
about or or had really had anyum you know basis of like just to
even know if it was good orbad. Something like a buyout, you
know, UM, something like thosetypes of things like what does what does
(23:42):
a buyout? How much should thatbe? Um? You know, those
types of things or or if ifI were to um you know, on
both sides of it. You know, like if I if I were to
if they were to go in adifferent direction here, or if I were
to want to take another job somewhereelse, Like what are those numbers?
How do those numbers line up?The importance of the amount of years on
(24:04):
your contract and what that means inrecruiting, And because it does everyone you
know on the administration side, Itjust everyone has their different opinion and view
of how this thing works in termsof what a contract means, not only
do the person that's signing it andgetting paid by it, but what it
(24:26):
means to the outside world, whatit means to assistance you're trying to bring
in, what your contract means topeople you're trying to recruit. Um,
you just don't really think about thator feel that weight when you're an assistant
coach, and how just that perceptionof what your contract looks like and says,
(24:48):
how that's viewed, and how howpeople view your program in general because
of it. So those will bethe things I would say is just you
know, have somebody that you thatcan advocate on your behalf so you don't
have to have those hard conversations umnecessarily about the nitty gritty of a contractum
and also just you know, justtaking your time and being able to really
(25:14):
understand you're you're non negotiable so tospeak, like what kinds of things are
you you know, for example,like are you willing to take less money
and salary you know, for anotheryear on a contract or are you willing
to um, you know, giveup this to to really get that and
again knowing what's important, what you'regoing to need for your program, what's
(25:37):
important to you um. And it'sbecause it's not just about like, oh
how much am I going to getpaid every year? You know, it's
so much more than that. Soit really helps to have somebody like an
agent in your corner explaining these thingsto you and advocating on your behalf.
Vanessa, I would I would jumpin an echo what Brooks saying. It
(26:00):
is extremely difficult to defend your ownintegrity, and especially when you are supposed
to be in a positive relationship withan athletic director who is presenting this contract
to you. So that interim personit used to be back when I started
(26:21):
that the athletic director didn't work withagents, and so the reason I had
an agent was to look over afourteen page contract that I didn't understand anything
about. I do think it's it'sreally valuable. I had an older coach
who is interested in maybe moving toanother school at some point call me and
(26:44):
say, hey, help me understandsan agent important? I'm thinking yes,
yes, yes, yes, Sothat is a question, and I think
a lot of people that are apart of week coach do need great guidance
in the area. You both mentionedthe importance of an advocate, and that's
some really good insight that you bothshared. Thank you for that. Brooke,
(27:07):
you certainly had an advocate in Sueover the years, and Sue,
I was wondering if you'd share alittle bit about some of the intentional ways
that you were best positioning Brooke forthe opportunity, such as to lead the
Florida State program. What were someof the things that you either delegated to
(27:30):
Brooke to handle for the program.And then also once she was announced and
it was determined that she would benext in line to lead, what was
some advice that you gave her asshe was transitioning into the permanent role.
Well, I took a page outof Coach Bowden's book Honestly, he was
such a great mentor and caregiver tome, and I really saw the way
(27:56):
that he directed things, and Ithought, gosh, I can't this work
for women's basketball, to have anoffensive coordinator a defensive coordinator. We always
had a recruiting coordinator and that wassomething that I remember serving in. But
as soon as I was able tofigure out how to do that and remain
(28:18):
involved in the way that I neededto on the court, I think the
best thing that I was able todo was to bring in someone to be
a recruiting coordinator. And Brooke camein and was a recruiting coordinator by fire.
I mean, it was just like, look, this is what we're
going to do. This is we'regoing to how we're going to do it.
And she did a phenomenal job.I mean, both of you two
(28:41):
where are so intelligent, and it'sit's your passion and intelligence that I knew
made me know for both of youthat you could do anything you wanted to.
And so you go from recruiting coordinatorto the defensive coordinator, and she
did a phenomenal job with lot.I mean, just because really that was
(29:03):
her passion. I couldn't get herto shoot the ball if you can remember
of an SS, so you know, to get somebody who was the all
time leader and blocks at that point, who would fly all over the floor,
to have a passion, and toteach the defensive system that we had
in place to tweak it when shesaw fit that those types of experiences where
(29:26):
you trust the individual, you followup behind you, you challenge the dog
out of them, and at thesame time really try to be encouraging.
I think it was really important inthe growth of any of my assistants then
to move into the into the offensivecoordination spot. And because I do think
(29:49):
that that piece of it is themost delicate, it's the most strategic.
It's yeah, if you can't score, you can't win. Now, I'm
I'm a coach who goes back tothose first two and thinks those are the
most important foundationally. But if youdon't have somebody that can help you to
put players into a position to scoreonce you've gotten stops, then you know,
(30:14):
that's you know, just tough.So you know, Brooke was able
to do all three of those ata high level, and then during the
COVID year, handle budget, handlehuge decisions. I think she handled COVID
far better than I would have handledCOVID. And then last year, knowing
coming back that I needed to notjust come and reinsert myself, and it
(30:40):
was really hard to not do thiswith my personality. But I've always wanted
to be you know, I've alwayswanted to be different than who I was
as a coach, and this gaveme an opportunity to try. And I
think it gave me an opportunity tostep back in some ways and let Brooke
take over some of the day today in the real time, not necessarily
(31:03):
COVID time. But through all that, I think the most important thing is
that to encourage coaches to do ittheir way and to do it with their
personality, and Brooke just needs tobe who she is and she will be
highly successful. It's she doesn't needto try to to be me or you
(31:27):
or someone else in the coaching professionin order to get it done well.
She needs to be who she isand just put into play the things that
she's learned throughout the years, notjust as a as a coach at Florida
State, but as a as aplayer, you know, through the professional
(31:48):
ranks and all she's learned from allof those different coaches. Well, Brooke,
you've done a phenomenal job certain yourcoaching career and have enjoyed a lot
of success. But I think Ithink it's safe to say one of your
biggest accomplishments is the birth of yourdaughter Avery. Hi, Avery Phoenix and
(32:10):
Frankie miss you. And Avery wasborn in twenty thirteen, So not only
are you now a head coach ata major Division one program, but you're
continuing to build up and raise anincredible I wanted to ask you to share
a little bit about the initiative thatyou started with the WBCA Moms in Coaching,
(32:37):
and is their advice Brook that youcould offer to first time moms who
are also trying to if there issuch a thing, strike a balance between
a career in coaching and also beinga really incredible mother to a son or
daughter at home. Yeah. Well, I first of all, thank you
(33:00):
for the opportunity even I said toto speak on moms and coaching because it's
something that is near and dear tomy heart. And um, I will
say that you know when I whenI was pregnant, UM was when the
idea for mom moms and coaching startedto percolate. UM. I am so
(33:22):
fortunate to as just for so manyreasons, and this was another one.
To be working for coach Sue andto be loved by Coach Sue, that
she was the most supportive, umand understanding and nurturing boss, and in
(33:44):
that moment for me that I couldhave ever dreamed of having um and and
that is something that so many momsor moms to be don't have unfortunately in
a boss or in co workers umand, but many do. And that
makes a huge difference. But eveneven though I had that support from coach
(34:06):
Sue and and from my colleagues,there wasn't anyone that I knew personally or
that I was working with that alsohad kids that was a mother. UM.
We had someone on staff that wasa dad and had kids. But
it's different, you know, It'sobviously just a different role. And so
I began to look around and say, well, I don't who's done this
(34:32):
before. I haven't seen it done. And while I happened to be out
on the road in July, whichis a huge recruiting period for women's basketball,
where you see, you know,every coach in the country while while
we're sitting and watching UM these AUtournaments, and so it was it was
becoming obvious that it was pregnant.And so I had women other coaches coming
(34:55):
out of the woodwork up to melike, oh, you're pregnant, congratulations
and start up a conversation. AndI'm like, yeah, you're a mom,
like you have kids too. Youknow, when we're coaching, obviously
on the sidelines, you don't youdon't see people's kids with them, and
during games, and then when we'reout on the road recruiting, which the
(35:19):
other time we see other coaches,usually we don't have, you know,
our kids with us. So Ihad so many women coming up to me
and saying, yeah, I haveyou know, two kids, I have
one kid, or I have eighteenyear old kids, or I have a
three year old, and began toshare their story and also their advice and
that advice that they were giving me. First of all, it just made
(35:40):
me feel just it was like asigh of relief, just that wow,
you know, thank you, Yes, that advice is I'm going to use
that. But also that there's otherpeople doing this. I'm not alone.
I'm not alone, you know,and that That was the biggest thing that
(36:00):
started me thinking, Okay, ifI'm feeling this, other people had to
be feeling like this. Mothers youknow that had kids of all ages were
saying they still felt like that,you know, and they'd already been living
it out. So we started totalk about, man, if we could
all get into a room together andthen just all talk and support each other
(36:22):
and give advice and just see eachother, how cool would that be.
So that's really where moms and coachingcame out of us, like, we
need to get together again. CoachSue coach Suit of the Rescue. Coach
Sue is the president of the WBCAat the time, and so we had
the WBCA really, you know,and on the forefront of all of our
(36:44):
minds is the is you know,there are organizations that really provide that that
kind of infrastructure where we can getgroups together. And so they were amazing
and allowing us to have a spotat the convention at the Final Four.
And this was now eight years ago, and so every year we've been getting
(37:06):
together at the Final Four as partof the WBC convention and it's just so
cool to see moms in a room, you know, look around and be
like, all these women are doingit too. When I feel like I
can't do it. When I getto that point like how am I going
to get this all done or tomanage I think of those moms in that
room and know that there's the supportout there and other women doing it and
(37:30):
I can do it too. Ilove that, And I can't believe it
was eight years ago. I rememberattending your very first meeting with your Mom's
and coaching group just to kind oflearn from the administrator perspective, you know,
how I could best support you.At the time, I really hadn't
had many women coaches that I wassupervising that had children, So it was
(37:53):
had a tremendous impact on me.And I can tell you, Brooke,
I'm already hearing the volleyball coach isare discussing starting something similar as moms and
coaching for the volleyball coaches out therethat are mothers. So what you're doing
is starting to spread throughout our countryand is offering tremendous support to these women
(38:16):
in coaching. Because you're right thesocial roles between men and women at home
and mothers and the responsibility that usuallyfalls on the mother in terms of taking
care of the young ones. Itdoes present a challenge when you're trying to
maintain and thrive in a profession likecoaching where it's twenty four seven, three
(38:40):
sixty five. Could you share alittle bit, Brooke from your experience at
Florida State, what were maybe someof the best practices in terms of support
that you received. I know youmentioned Sue was a tremendous advocate and supporter
for you. Was there anything thatthe administration provided that you would say should
(39:02):
be a best practice that other schoolsand administrators should think about. Yeah,
I think, um, there's alot of things that that can be done.
And again, this is something wetalk about in moms and coaching that
each institution is so different, UMand we all deal with just a very
uh different landscape from from program toprogram, staff to staff, institution,
(39:29):
institution, UM and so uh itreally you do feel fortunate when you have
people, uh that you work withand people that you work for that um
supportive that can look like a lotof different things. So you know,
some examples, UM of it wouldbe just being able to feel the freedom
(39:52):
honestly that there's not going to bea penalty or hushion for having to attend
to a parenting obligation um and andthat that looks a lot of different ways,
And it starts with, you know, to work for whether if you're
(40:14):
an assistant coach, that's your headcoach, um, if you're a head
coach, that's your your athletic directorand oversight, and really having that trust
there that Okay, I'm not goingto take advantage of this, i am
not going to work you know lessor not take my job as seriously because
I'm a mother, but there arethings that I'm going to need to maybe
(40:37):
not work the same hours as mycounterpart who doesn't have children because my child
has a doctor's appointment or needs toget picked up from school at a certain
time. So it's that having thattrusting relationship um of you know, valuing
the work that I do or thework that we do as others in the
(41:00):
job, and also knowing that we'regoing to get the work done it just
may look a little different. Justfeeling that kind of understanding is huge.
And the other thing too, it'ssimple things as being able to take avery
on a road trip when needed.For example, when I had just come
(41:22):
back from being on a little bitof maternity leave. After I had had
her, took a month off fromfrom actually like being with the team.
I stayed home from well actually Itook two weeks off from just staying home,
and then I started to work myway back into practices and home games.
(41:43):
And then I was about a monthlater, maybe six weeks. Then
I began to travel with the teamagain and for recruiting, and there was
a situation where I needed I wasstill breastfeeding, and so I wanted to
bring her so while I was recruiting, they could watch her and I could
(42:04):
still have her with me and notbe gone for you know, a four
day stretch while it was breastfeeding,and just being able to a have that
opportunity coach to being okay with that, and then the administration being okay with
that, with me bringing her onthe you know, our charter plate and
then traveling with her, that meanta lot to me. And just as
(42:25):
a just my mindset, you know, I mean, I think Avery would
have been fine if I had lefther that long, and you know,
she drinks out of a bottle orwhatever, and someone else watches her.
But my mindset as a mother toknow that she's, you know, six
weeks old, seven weeks old.I don't have to leave her at home
for these four days and I canstill get my job done. Wow.
(42:49):
That meant so much to me andand just helped me be a better coach
in those moments where we were travelingso good. And we're we're working on
right now a toolkit we coach aspart of our resources that we're rolling out
in celebration of the fiftieth anniversary ofTitle nine, a toolkit for administrators best
(43:12):
practices for supporting women in coaching,And certainly there will be a heavy emphasis
on support for mothers in coaching,and a lot of that is inspired through
the work that you've done in theleadership role You've taken, Brooke to help
support other women coaches out there whoare mothers and are also able to really
find tremendous success in the coaching professionwhile also serving as incredible mothers at home
(43:37):
to their young children. We couldtalk all day on that subject, but
I can't thank you enough for yourleadership and the inspiration that you've provided to
me as I'm now leading we coachand I certainly want our organization to be
a national leader and a go toresource for women out there, whether their
(43:59):
first time mother or have our veterancoaches and have several children at home.
We want to be a resource tosupport mothers and coaching. So thank you
for everything that you've done. We'rewinding down on time here, but I
would like to close out every podcastwith this question. Obviously, we Coach
we exist to help elevate, recruitand advance women and coaching, and I
(44:28):
was just curious if Sue and Brooke, if you had thoughts on how we
can move the numbers in terms ofsupporting and increasing the number of women and
coaches and women coaches in all sportsand levels. We're coming to toss it
to you first. Okay, Well, I'll just continue really quickly with the
line of the topic of conversation ofthe moms and coaching, the peace and
(44:53):
venus. I'm so thankful that weCoach is an organization that values that and
it's providing resources and to administrations andtwo coaches on what you know supporting mothers.
And I want to say just quicklywhy supporting mothers and coaching is so
(45:14):
important to our profession. It's notjust important to the mothers, you know,
for them to feel good and tobe able to have a job and
achieve, you know, do allof the things we want to do.
I believe in one of the biggestthings behind why we have moms and coaching
as well, is that it's importantto women's sports. It's important to sports
(45:35):
and the impact that sports has ultimatelyon our society. When we see,
um, people of all different backgroundswalks of life involved in our sports,
it's good for society. When peoplefeel supported and no matter where they're coming
from or what their lifestyle situation is, um, it's good for sports and
(45:59):
it's good for society. So that'swhen mothers are supported in this profession,
that means women will continue to coach. That will move the numbers of women
in coaching women in sports, whichagain is great for our student athletes to
have women mentoring them, to keepwomen in a mentorship position where they're emulating
(46:22):
what it looks like to be agreat mother and to have a great career
where they are those resources for ouryoung people to go to in all kinds
of situations. It's just great tohave that support because it's good for our
sports and for society. And Ibelieve that that support moves the numbers of
(46:43):
women in coaching and in sports.I can't think of a better way to
end my very first podcast than onthat note. If she can see her,
she can be her. Well said, and thank you for those thoughts,
and thank you coach Sue and Brookeagain for being with us today.
(47:06):
Really excited to have you on myvery first podcast episode. And thanks to
those of you listening We Coach Podcast. Thank you again to our sponsor,
Huddle and production partner WHISP Sports.Please join us again on June twenty third,
the fiftieth anniversary of Title nine,for a discussion with coaches who've authored
chapters in an exciting book that wasjust released, Winning Ways of Women Coaches,
(47:30):
featuring twenty of the most remarkable womencoaches in the world. Follow us
and share your comments on Twitter atwe coach and at wissports, or on
Facebook at we Coach sports and atWIS Sports. Interested in learning more about
any of our upcoming events, resources, membership and donor options, please visit
(47:51):
our website at we Coach sports dotorg. Until next time, keep moving
the numbers. We teach, weinspire, we motivate, we lead we coach
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