S5E4: BIPOC Mental Health Awareness Month Part 2 of 2

Season 5 Episode 4 of The WeCOACH Podcast presented by Hudl features Part 2 of a two-part series dedicated to BIPOC (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color) Mental Health Awareness throughout the month of July. BIPOC Mental Health Awareness Month is intended to highlight the unique mental health challenges and needs of historically disenfranchised or oppressed racial and ethnic groups in the United States. Licensed Psychologist and Certified Mental Performance Consultant Dr. Kensa Gunter shares about her work as Director of the NBA’s Mind Health Program and the leadership role athletes and coaches play in humanizing mental health. She also offers numerous mental health and wellness resources, examples for how coaches can create environments that allows others to thrive, the importance of self-care, recharging, pausing, checking in—and much more. Be sure to catch both episodes of this two-part series.

Host: Vanessa Fuchs
Recorded: July 18, 2022

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Episode Transcript

(00:17):
Hello everyone, and welcome to Seasonfive, Episode four of the Week Coach
podcast, presented by our partner Huddleon with Sports. Huddle is leveling the
playing field for women in sports,both through the technology they create and important
events like Breakthrough Summit. Co createdwith week Coach. All podcasts episodes are

(00:37):
inspired by collective input from our weekCoach community. Please join us every two
weeks for thought provoking discussions focused ontimely topics of national significance impacting the coaching
profession. I'll be your host,Vanessa Fuchs, CEO of Week Coach,
a one of a kind nonprofit dedicatedto offering year round growth and leadership development

(00:58):
to recruit, advance, retain womencoaches in all sports and levels. This
podcast is a co production of WithSports and We Coach. With Sports is
the only global podcast for women's sports, with more than two point seven million
podcast worldwide. We look forward tobringing you new shows, dropping every other

(01:18):
Thursday. Well, I'm fresh offmy vacation in Hawaiian I can't think of
a better way to return to workthan to record this podcast with you.
We hope you tuned in on Julyfourteenth for Part one of our two part
series dedicated to July's BIPOC, Black, Indigenous, and People of Color BYPOC
mental Health Awareness Month, intended tohighlight the unique mental health challenges and needs

(01:42):
of historically disenfranchised or oppressed racial andethnic groups in the United States. This
series is one small way we coachcan join in the effort to create awareness
for BIPOC mental health. And todaywe're continuing with part two of our series.
Joining me is doctor Kenza Gunter,a licensed psychologist and certified mental performance

(02:04):
consultant who's based in Atlanta. Throughher private practice, doctor Gunter provides individual
counseling, mental skills, training,and consultation services to athletes, teams,
and organizations. She has worked withindividuals at various levels of competition, including
high school, collegiate, and professionalathletes. Doctor Gee, thank you for

(02:27):
being here today. We look forwardto this conversation. Hi, Vanessa,
thank you so much. It ismy pleasure to be here. I thank
you for the invitation, and Itoo am looking forward to our conversation.
Well, the honor is ours,so we're gonna go ahead and dive right
in. I've done quite a bitof research on you and impressive work that
you do important work that you do, and in your work you talk quite

(02:50):
a bit about humanizing mental health,recognizing that culture impacts perception and experience and
because of this your intention to acknowledgethe importance of individual cultural identities as well
as the cultural context in which aperson performs and lives. As our WEE
coach community and podcast listeners seek tolearn more about BIPOC mental health awareness,

(03:14):
can you elaborate on this for us? Absolutely? I think you know this
notion of talking about mental health,particularly at the intersection of sport with our
athletes and coaches. It's something thatI think is at the top of mind
for us, particularly given the lastcouple of years and all the things that
we have experienced. And so whenI talk about the concept of humanizing mental

(03:35):
health, it refers to just thattalking about mental health in the context of
the lived experiences that people have anunderstanding that. Certainly, in the realm
of sport, we are working withperformers, but there's a person at the
core of every performance and every performer, and so what we really want to
do is understand who is the personthat we're working with in the realm of
rental health, in the realm ofmental performance. Who is this person from

(03:59):
an individual standpoint, and that includesthe cultural identities that they hold, the
intersection of identities, whether we're talkingabout race, gender, sexual identity,
relationship status, nationality, age,and a host of other cultural identities that
they may hold. It's important forus to understand what identities are important to
a person because that helps us tounderstand who they are and then what kind

(04:21):
of work may be most beneficial forus to do together. When we talk
about the cultural context, I thinkwhat's important there is understanding that we as
people are impacted by the things thathappen in us, the things that happen
to us, and the things thathappen around us. And so in addition
to understanding who a person is froma cultural standpoint and using a cultural lens,

(04:42):
we also have to think about thecontexts in which they live and they
operate. And so that's not onlytheir social and familial contexts, but also
thinking about the context of the sportthat they may be participating in the context
of the university or college that theymay be attending, or the organization or
team that they are playing for,and then understanding the cultural context of society
at large. Because the intersection ofall these contexts, in addition to the

(05:05):
intersections of who this person is,shape their experiences that they have in the
world. It shapes their perception ofthe world, the world's perception of them,
and we need to think on allof those levels when it comes to
humanizing the discussion about mental health andreally honoring the lived experience that we're really
talking about when we speak about mentalhealth and mental performance. That's so good.

(05:30):
We really want this podcast to beeducational for our we coach community,
and this is a topic that hascontinued in my short four months on the
job, continue to come up withour women coaches. And so as you
talk about humanizing mental health, canwe talk a little bit about resources because

(05:50):
I hear often from coaches they're notalways sure where to turn for more education,
resources, training, best practice asit relates to mental health and emotional
well being so that they can bethe best support that they can be for
their athletes. You know, whenI was at Florida State, we were

(06:11):
fortunate we had a full time mentalhealth specialist within athletics, and she emphasized
and reiterated the importance to not onlyour student athletes, but to our coaches
and staff that your mental health isequally as important as your physical health.
And so while this is a growingtrend, it seems like schools are hiring

(06:33):
more and more mental health specialists withintheir athletics departments, especially in Division one,
we have to realize not all athleticsdepartments have this benefit. And so
from your experience, doctor G,could you just share a little bit about
based on what's available on most campuses, what's available in local communities, maybe

(06:56):
national resources online through different apps.What where can coaches turn for these resources?
So I think there are a coupleof different levels of resources that might
be really helpful here for coaches todevelop or expand their knowledge and their skill
settings areas. So one, whenI think about mental health, on many

(07:19):
college and university campuses, there isa college counseling center you certainly, depending
upon division one, two, three, or different levels, they may be
resourced differently. But if there isa counseling center on your campus, then
that may be a good first stepbecause one of the things that they could
do is provide basic information kind ofa mental health one or one to give

(07:41):
you basic information about what mental healthis talking about. The continuum of mental
health may be giving you some informationabout science and symptoms to look for that
may indicate that someone is experiencing tostress, but also giving you information about
proactive skills and techniques that people coulduse in order to maintain or even enhance
their mental health and wellness. Andso that may be the first place.

(08:03):
If you don't have a counseling centeron your campus, then my guess is
that there may be mental health professionalswithin your community that would be willing to
come in and potentially offer some informationor provide a talk or a conversation about
mental health as well. And sothere are a couple of different places that
you may be able to look forfor that. The Association for Applied Sports

(08:26):
Psychology as a Find a Consultants featureon their website where you can find mental
performance coaches in your area. Someof those mental performance consultants are also clinically
trained, so they may be ableto provide information about mental health. And
what I'll do is I'll provide youwith some of these links that you can
include in your show notes. Butthat's one area of thinking through mental health.

(08:48):
And then there's some national trainings asit relates to mental health QPRS,
Question persuade refer it's a gatekeeper programthat was initially designed to help people become
more comfortable asking about and talking aboutsuicidal type behaviors, but certainly it's a
way to equip someone who's not trainedin this area to be more comfortable asking

(09:09):
questions, to be more knowledgeable aboutsigns and symptoms that may indicate distress,
so that we can all take somerole in creating healthier environments. There is
also a program called Mental Health FirstAid, and it's a skill based training
course that teaches participants about mental healthand substance use issues. And again they
provide general information about different types ofmental health conditions, but also they provide

(09:33):
some skills that allow someone to thinkabout how to intervene. So that's the
mental health piece. But then wethink about the cultural competence piece, because
as we are in awarepop Mental HealthAwareness Month, it's important for us to
think about that cultural context. Andthere are many books and resources that exist
that can help us think about workingwith culturally diverse populations. Right and certainly

(09:56):
when I say that, there isno way that we can be versed in
all the many different cultural identities thatfolks may hold or the intersections that may
manifest in all the individuals that wecome across. But it is important for
us to think through culturally, whereare my blind spots? What are the
areas and aspects of identity that I'mmost comfortable with? What are those that
I don't think about at all?That starts with the level of awareness about

(10:18):
our own identities and then deliberate effortsto develop and increase our knowledge about those
cultural groups that we may not beas familiar with. And so again I
can share some resources about books andpotentially podcasts that share information particularly about that
cultural piece, because I think wehave to do both in tandem. We
can't just look at mental health,we can't just look at culture. But

(10:41):
if we want to enhance our awarenessand our knowledge base, we need to
be expanding our internal skill set andour knowledge base around both of those areas
simultaneously. That's fantastic, and thankyou for those resources. I myself personally
have completed QPR training and it's anincredible resource. Thank you also for sharing

(11:03):
some resources specific to supporting our BIPOCcommunity, and we would gladly accept links
to these resources. So we canupload those on our website at the time
that we upload this podcast for ourlisteners in our community. So thank you
for that, you know. Andtwenty twenty, I'd like to talk with
you about your role now with itas director of the NBA Mind Health Program.

(11:28):
In twenty twenty, you were hiredinto that role and can you talk
about the Mind Health Program and whatyour role entails. Yeah, So the
Mind Health Program is essentially the league'smental health and wellness platform, and through
mind Health, we have the opportunityto work with all of our player league,
so that includes the NBA, butalso the w NBA, our G

(11:50):
League teams, our two K teamsin our two K League, and our
Basketball Africa League in terms of providingsome basic information about mental health to our
participants and our staff that work withthat league. We also have the opportunity
to provide some resources related to mentalhealth to our coaches through our Coaches Association.

(12:11):
We've engaged with providing information to ourreferees, and we've also collaborated with
our league HR in order to provideresources to our league staff as well.
And so essentially what we are tryingto do is infiltrate mental health and infiltrate
the department, all of our departmentswith information and knowledge about wellness and about

(12:31):
mental health. And so we dothat by providing workshops. We will provide
printed kind of one page resources aboutdifferent topics, certainly when things have happened,
for example, with the passing ofKobe Bryant and the other individuals in
the helicopter crash, like providing informationabout managing grief and loss. Certainly when

(12:52):
COVID became kind of at its peakand its height here in the States,
providing information about managing uncertainty, workingwith some of our medical staff about educating
around COVID, and sometimes about theemotional and the psychological impacts. And so
we try to provide point in timeresources. We try to provide general information
and resources about mental health and aboutmental performance. And so we have a

(13:16):
league based kind of steering committee thatis involved in kind of their strategic planning
and creating guidelines and recommendations and requirementsas it relates to the Mind Health program.
And the way we extend to ourteams is that all of our as
of now, all of our NBAteams, our w NBA teams, and

(13:37):
our g League teams are required tohave a relationship with the designated mental health
professional or some of our teams thatlooks like a person that is hired as
a full time staff number. Forother teams it is a contracted service.
Regardless of what the arrangement is,that person has to be available for our
players and in many cases for ourteam staff as on an as needed base.

(14:00):
In other instances, we also havesituations where those professionals provide educational resources
and educational services as well to ourteam. Is to goal there being that
we understand intuitively when we think aboutsport, we understand the importance of taking
care of your physical health, andwe want the importance of taking care of
your mental health to be as reflexiveas it is as the thoughts about taking

(14:20):
care of your physical health. Andso one of the ways is to kind
of make sure that we have aresource in place that's designed to do that.
And so within mind health, ourvision statement if we will is,
again you've heard it before, tohumanize mental health and to position it as
an essential element of success and wellnessboth on and off the court. And

(14:41):
our kind of three touchstones if youwill, are humanizing mental health elevating performance
and then honoring lived experience. Andso we really try to stay true to
those tenants in all of the workthat we do through that program. Phenomenal.
I really admire the NBA w NBA'sleadership to prioritize mental health in support

(15:05):
of its players and staff that youmentioned. I love it. They're also
making that resource available for staff aswell. You know, there's a national
effort to destigmatize mental health and sport, and so I'm wondering what your experience
has been working in the pro space. Are the athletes and staff bought in?
It sounds like they are with theleadership role that the league has taken.

(15:26):
But how do you get athletes tobuy in to seeking mental health support?
How do you get coaches to buyinto seeking mental health support? And
can you share what you feel ismost critical as we advance these efforts to
stigmatize mental health and athletics. Yeah, So the concept of buy in and

(15:48):
the concept the concept of kind ofhow do you get them to use the
service? I think is an interestingone because quite honestly, I think that
it is the athletes and their courageand the vulnerability that they have shown in
and sharing their stories over the lastfew years. I think that is what's
actually propelled this movement forward as itrelates to conversations about the intersectional mental health

(16:10):
and sport. I think about yearsago. I think about Smike wholes Law
and her sharing her story one herstory kind of publicly playing out in some
ways, but then her intentionally sharingher story and her mental health journey.
I think that was really groundbreaking atthe time. And then if we moved
a little bit more recently, wethink about DeMar Derosen in twenty eighteen and

(16:32):
the tweet that he posted as itrelated to depression, and how that been
created a pathway, if you will, for Kevin Love to share more about
his story. And then we haveprofessional athletes in other spaces, from small
Bios to Naiomyosaka to Michael Phelps toLiz Convey to a host of other athletes

(16:53):
who have over the last several yearspublicly shared their stories as it relates to
mental health. Right, and soI truly think, as opposed to thinking
about how do we get the athletesto buy in, the question has become
or whether the statement is athletes aretelling us that they want to be seen
as more than just performers. Theyare telling us about these very real experiences

(17:18):
that they are having as it relatesto their mental, emotional, psychological health
and well being. What are wegoing to do to make sure that resources
are in place and to be responsiveto a need that they are telling us
exists, and to see them asthe full people that they are and not
continue to look at them as performersto the exclusion of who they are as

(17:41):
a person, right, And soI really think that it is athletes and
coaches as well. Some coaches havecome out and share their stories too,
but I think it is because theyare asking for us to see them as
people that has created the movement ofwhat are we doing to make sure that
we're honoring that and to make surewe have resources is in place. I
think that has fueled the movement thatwe see in sport, and so I

(18:03):
think that's why you see more positionsin college spaces, collegiate spaces, particularly
if I think about Division one spaces. I think within pro sport you also
see movement. The NFL also hasa very similar recommendation that all the teams
have to have a designated mental healthprofessional that's available to work with them and
a Major League Baseball has a lotof mental performance consultants, and also they're

(18:25):
increasing in terms of their mental healthservices that they have available to their players
as well, and so we're seeingit on a number of levels. The
USOPC, the United States Olympic andParalympic Committee, definitely has hired several mental
health professionals within the past year,specifically to build out their mental health resources.
And so I think the question willhave becomes if we think about sport

(18:47):
atmospheres and environments, we have tobe more intentional about investing financial resources,
time, energy, and effort tomake sure that athletes have access to what
they need. And what they needgoes beyond resources to enhance their performance.
It's resources to support them as people. And so I think when we talk

(19:07):
about buy in one having somebody who'sconnected to a team, I think it's
helpful because that person becomes a partof the team. And when you think
about the work that we do inthe mental health and the mental performance space,
relationships are important. Relationships are builtover time. Relationships need trust.
In order to do that, aperson needs to be around. So if
we create space one for the resourceto be present two for them to be

(19:29):
visible, three for them to beaccessible, and four we have to have
a level of cultural competence in thefolks that we are talking about, not
only competence in terms of the culturalidentities because we know there's a wide range
of folks that participates in sport,but also thinking about the nuances of the
athletics subculture and understanding what an athlete'sexperience is. So having training and working

(19:51):
within the realm of sport, withinthe athletics subculture also becomes a level of
cultural competence in addition to understanding thediverse communities that one may work with the
realblem of sports. So I thinkathletes are brought in so wanting the resource.
It's on us now to make surethat the resource is available and it's
truly something that's accessible to them.I love that you brought up the athletes

(20:11):
leadership in this and by their courageto share their stories and help in the
effort to humanize mental health, butalso to help others see them as people
and persons. First, I actuallybenefited from hearing Himikohl's claus story. She
came to the ACC Mental Health Summita few years back and just powerful really

(20:38):
believe that their leadership and their willingnessto model the way for others does help
for those youth and young adults whoare watching them as role models, make
them understand it's important and it's somethingthat's there shouldn't be any shame seeking out

(21:00):
these resources, and it's critically importantfor our well being that we utilize mental
health resources. I want to shiftgears. Go ahead, and I think
before you shift gears, I justwant to say the other thing their two
points came to mind for me onone is absolutely certainly the athletes at these
elite levels who are sharing their storiesare serving as models for younger athletes,

(21:21):
but also thinking about the way they'reserving as models for all of us,
right because the athletes that I mentionedthese are athletes who have excelled in their
sport. And so I think that'sthe other message that's being communicated here is
is that if you experience a mentalhealth challenge or struggle, or have a
diagnosed with a mental health condition,that does not have to prevent you from
being successful and productive and performing exceptionallywell in any capacity. Right, It's

(21:45):
not that these athletes are talking abouthow managing their mental health got in the
way of their success journeys. It'salmost because they were able to manage and
take care of them prioritize their mentalhealth. That's a part of what allowed
them to move forward in their successjourneys. And I think that's a really
important piece because historically, particularly inthe world, is for anything that came

(22:07):
up in the realm of mental healthrelated concern howallenge difficulty might result in one
being labeled as weak, right,or not able to cut it, or
the opposite of mentally tough right.And I think there's a very powerful a
message and that it is not somuch that the successful athlete is one who
has no challenges and struggles. Thesuccessful elite athlete is one who learns how

(22:32):
to manage and navigate them right,and does so at times with assistance from
other people, right, they don'ttry to go it alone. I think
the other thing that I wanted toshare is I mentioned a lot of professional
athletes, but there are a lotof collegiate athletes too who are courageously sharing
their stories as well, and Idon't want to overlook that that, in
addition to the professional athletes whose nameswe might more readily know, there are

(22:56):
a lot of movements within the collegespace to also bring awareness to the fact
that they too are people first,and they too want to be seen in
the fullness of who they are andwant to have access to resources to support
their overall development, not just theirdevelopment as an athlete. You mentioned the

(23:22):
importance of these pro athletes and therole that they're playing, but as you
mentioned and credited the collegiate athletes.When I was at Florida State, we
had a volleyball student athlete, MarissaStockman, who came to our administration and
advocated that we implement during one ofour matches last season during the fall of

(23:42):
twenty twenty one. This was heridea. She implemented our very first ever
mental health awareness match, and notonly did she help us execute that on
FSUs campus, she then challenged therest of the ACC fall sports to do
the same. And I could tobe more proud of her, and there's
actually some articles that highlight her leadershipand implementing that initiative for us. But

(24:08):
you know, you talk about someof these athletes who because they've prioritized mental
health just as much as they've prioritizedtheir physical health, that they've been able
to rise up to the most elitelevels in their sport. So let's talk
a little bit about that the relationshipbetween health and performance and being able to

(24:29):
elevate your performance. So, inaddition to your role as director of the
NBA's Mind Health Program, you alsoare a certified mental health performance excuse me,
certified mental performance consultant. And canyou explain a little bit more about
this aspect of your work and howmental performance is different than your role as
a licensed psychologist. Absolutely, andso the way I like to think about

(24:52):
it is kind of mental health andmental performance are two separate and different domains,
but they certain influence one another,and in terms of the professionals that
work in the spaces, there's certainlya lot of collaboration that can happen.
And so when we think about alicensed mental health professional, we typically think
about someone who is trained to diagnoseand treat mental illness or mental health disorders,

(25:15):
and so those diagnosable conditions that youmay think of, depression, anxiety,
obsessive compulsive disorders, eating disorder,substance use disorders. A person who
is a licensed mental health professional istrained to treat, diagnose, and treat
those particular conditions, and it doesn'teven have to be to a diagnosical level.
But certainly if someone is experiencing alevel of disruption in their life because

(25:41):
of different signs and symptoms and experiencesthat they're having, they might seek a
mental health professionals to help them addressthat. And that's in the health realm,
right kind of primarily thinking about thehealth realm. A mental performance consultant
is someone who, primarily through educationationalmeans, teaches different mental skills to help

(26:03):
someone restore, maintain, or enhancetheir performance. And so when I talk
about mental skills, what I'm talkingabout are things like goal setting, self
talk, imagery and visualization, learninghow to regulate your emotions, energy management,
if you will, and kind ofhow to maintain and manage your energy
over the course of a competition.Mental performance consultants who work with athletes and

(26:26):
performers kind of over the range oftheir training cycle. So they may work
with them during the training phase.They may work with them prior to competition
to develop pre competition routines. Theymay work with them during the competition and
certainly post competition to evaluate kind ofhow the strategies work, to make any
adjustments that need to be made.When I think about mental performance consultants,
again, these are individuals who arecoming in to particularly work on addressing the

(26:52):
mental side of someone's gain. Andso when we talk about health and performance,
we know that they impact one another, right that one's health may impact
their ability to perform, and one'sperformance may impact how they feel in terms
of their health. They're not thesame thing, but they certainly can influence
one another. And we also knowthat within this, depending on whether or

(27:17):
not somebody feels mentally healthy or mentallyill can also have an impact on all
of it. And so the mentalperformance side of the work that I do
really rest in that educational that skillsbuilding, an educational realm where I am
working towards teaching specific skills to helpfolks make sure that their head is in
the game when they need it tobe in the game the most. And

(27:38):
again you compare this mental skills trainingwith their physical skills training. You can
engage in the training separately, butit really is to make sure that things
like their focus, their attention,their confidence, their motivation, their self
taught, their ability to connect andbe cohesive with their team. Those are
the types of skills that we workon in within the mental performance space,

(28:02):
and that is separate from whether ornot they have a mental health condition or
not. They may not have thatat all, but still if this idea
that you don't have to be performingpoorly in order to work on improving and
to get better, right, Andso that's kind of one of the things
we think about a mental performance andin the same way that in the physical
realm you may have athletic trainers,strength and conditioning coaches, and you also

(28:26):
have your orthopedic doctor. That's kindof how you can think about mental performance
and a mental health clinician, alicense mental health professional is the mental performance
consultant is gonna help with the maintenance, the enhancement and might even help to
the store. For example, someonewho's experiencing an injury. Mental skills can
be helpful in them kind of restoringtheir confidence as they go through we have

(28:48):
and return to competition. But reallywe think about mental health is dealing with
the diagnosipal conditions and know the performanceis dealing with skills building that helps to
make sure their mental game is matchedwith their physical performance and their physical game.
Thank you for distinguishing the two.You know, I want to talk
a little bit about coaches, andwe tend to acknowledge the need for these

(29:11):
athletes to pursue services, but it'snot just important only for the athletes,
but also for our coaches. AndI think coaches tend to be so others
oriented that there's a tendency to forgetto cover home base, to take care
of home base. And so,what do you feel are the obstacles that

(29:32):
get in the way of coaches reachingout for help and what are your suggested
strategies to address those obstacles. Yeah, I think coaches are one of our
most underserved communities within the world ofsport. I think there is so much
demand, expectation, and responsibility that'splaced on our coaches, but I'm not

(29:52):
sure how much training and support isoffered, not just to to enhancing their
ability to be a coach, buthow much support and information is poured into
making sure that they as people arehealthy as well. And the same way
that we talk about athletes are peoplefirst, and that there's a person and

(30:12):
every performer, coaches are people first. Two and there's a person and every
coach. And I think one ofthe things that we tend to do is
just expect that the coach is goingto be okay, and we just want
to make sure that they're equipped toprovide everything that we want them to provide
for their athletes. But I thinkwe really should be conscious of taking a

(30:33):
step back and really talking to thecoach about the importance of their health and
well being and them taking care ofthemselves as well. And this may be
a very novel concept for many coachesto think about, because coaches are givers,
they are doers. They sacrifice themselves. Like you said, there are
other focused and they usually sacrifice anyattention toward themselves and direct that towards ensuring

(30:57):
that their athletes are okay. AndI think a tremendous amount of thanks to
coaches because of the level of dedication, commitment, time, energy, and
sacrifice that they give and they engagein in their roles as coaches. But
to your question like how do weget them to buy in? I think
it's understanding that the coach generally isthe person who sets the tone for their

(31:21):
team. When we think about thisnotion of culture, and we talk about
cultural a lot on teams, what'sthe culture of your team? Kind of
what characterizes who your team is alot of that sometimes starts with the coach,
and so what we can share whatis certainly making sure that the XES
and those are in place is important. Wins and losses are important, but
health and wellness is important too,And if we can take some time to

(31:44):
check in with our coaches to givethem education about how to take care of
themselves in an increasingly demanding role,I think that goes a long way,
because I think when coaches start tosee how mental health and wellness and well
being strategies and mental performance strategies evenare important for them, then that gives
them buy in to understand why thismight be important for their athletes. Right,

(32:07):
if we can help them to understandhow we can help you to maybe
be healthier in this role as coachand even potentially enhance your coaching capacity,
then they may see how, oh, if these skills are beneficial for me,
then I can see how they maybe beneficial for my team as well.
And so I think the buy inhas to come from not just focusing
on pouring into the coach in orderfor the coach to be a better coach

(32:30):
and to be better at their job, but pouring in the coach for the
sake of the coach being healthy,right, because they set the tone.
They generally are the ones who createthe environment. And a healthy sport environment
is one that can absolutely support progressand wins and when things are going well,
but the healthiest of environments can alsosupport disappointments, failures, the space

(32:52):
and allow space for learning and growingand adversity as well. Right, healthy
environments allow room for all of them, and they can hold and support all
of that. It's not just oneor the other. And so in order
to do that, I think equippingour coaches to think about their health and
wellness, how that impacts them andtheir lives, and then also how it

(33:15):
impacts the team environment that they createfor their athletes is really important because again,
we want our coaches to be healthywhen they're on the court and also
when they're off the court too,And I think being more intentional about saying
that explicitly is really really a wayto start to focus on their caring for
themselves and to have this conversation andincrease the buying. That's fantastic and couldn't

(33:38):
agree more. We talk often andencourage and praise our coaches thank you coaches
for the fact that they have theability to have the most influential impact on
a young person's life, and sofor them to model the way and model

(34:00):
all these healthy behaviors for their studentathletes is also critically important. Let's talk
about some trends. You serve onnumerous national boards and are a member of
professional psychological associations and just curious ifthere's any evolving trends that you think would
be worth noting for our coaches.I think one of the biggest trends that

(34:24):
I'm seeing is this increased conversation aboutnot only mental health for individuals, but
also thinking about the organizational health ofour teams, our campuses, our the
environments that we create. I thinkone of the things that we have historically

(34:45):
done in conversations about mental health iswe've relegated it to just being an individual
phenomenon, right, And so whatwe will do then is talk about and
individual struggles and challenges and if thatindividual gets the help that they need or
can develop the skills, and thatindividual will be okay. And I think
one of the trends that I'm reallyseeing within this mental health and performance conversation

(35:06):
is yes, we do need tomake sure that support is in place for
the individual. What we also needto think about what is the environment that
we're cultivating and are the environments thatwe're cultivating within the world of sport are
they healthy and nourishing or are theydraining and depleting? And the analogy that
comes to mind from me there iskind of the analogy of a garden.
Right If I plant flowers in arock bed, can I really be upset

(35:30):
that the flowers aren't growing? Right? And I've used that analogy and I
had someone say, yeah, butwhat if the plant is a cactus.
I'm like, that's great, thecactile might grow, But everybody's not a
cactus, right, And so wehave to think about are we creating environments
and creating nurturing environments that are allowingall of the folks and our programs to

(35:52):
grow. Right, us, ourassistant coaches are coaches players, like,
are we creating environments that are reallyconducive to allowing folks to thrive? And
I've also heard kind of, youknow, the questions about this approach in
terms of thinking about maybe some ofthe ways that coaching was engaging historically,

(36:15):
right, this idea of tough lovecoaching, if you will, or you
know, there was a time whinnand coaching we didn't have to really attend
to the emotional health and well beingof our athletes like we really were able
to just come in and kind offocus on the XS and those and focus
on our collective goal of performing andwinning. And that was that. And
I wouldn't maintain that mental health hasalways been around, and mental health has

(36:36):
always been important to the lives ofthe athletes and to the lives of the
coaches who just didn't talk about it, and in not talking about it,
I don't think that creates a betterenvironment. It just creates an environment where
people are silenced, they're holding ontomore and there may be more disruption and
distress in their personal lives. Right. And so this idea of focusing on

(37:00):
the total person as the way ofcreating healthy sport environments, I think is
really the biggest trend that I'm seeingis folcusing on the total person and also
folks and on ensuring that the environmentand the culture we're creating is also one
that's healthy. Is really that's reallybeen on the forefront of conversations that I've
had and of trends that I'm seeing, particularly as it relates to this mental

(37:24):
health and sport intersection. I lovethe analogy to the garden. Thank you
for that, and your comments area great segue into what we want to
talk about next, which is arewe creating an environment that allows others to
thrive? And so I wanted totalk with you a little bit about your
experience. You've worked with clients participatingat every level of athletics. So what

(37:46):
are some of the characteristics that you'veobserved coaches and leaders demonstrate that show their
support to not only their athletes,but to the staffs that work closely with
them. That relates to mental healthand well being. And if you have
any specific examples that you think mightbe beneficial for our weak coach community,

(38:06):
please feel free to share those.Ye, that's a great question, and
let me see if I can kindof narrow down some of those core characteristics
that I've seen. I think oneof the first is they're authentic and vulnerable.
And what I mean by that iscertainly that they're real and by the

(38:28):
vulnerable, though I don't mean thatI've seen coaches kind of share their entire
life stories with everybody on their team. But what I mean is when you
interact with them, you feel likeyou're interacting with a person, right,
a person who sees the person andother people right and makes run for that.
They are not only trying to getthe most out of them in terms
of what their skill set is andwhat their talent level is and what they're

(38:50):
capable of producing on whatever feel theplay we're talking about, but these are
folks who also know their athletes aspeople, so they can check in with
them about what's going on the theirsiblings or their families, or some hobby
or interest that they know that theyhave. They show an interest in the
person beyond what they can contribute tothe team. And I think when you

(39:12):
have that kind of atmosphere, you'reable to challenge someone and push someone,
and criticize someone and give them somehard feedback because they understand that that's coming
from a place of yeah, it'strying to get the most out of them,
but not not in this kind ofI'm focusing on you as the performer
at the exclusion of who you are, Right. They're able to know that

(39:32):
person in context, and they're ableto push and pull on people in ways
that they know will resonate with theirathletes, and so in order to do
that, you have to know them. So they really do get to know
them, establish true relationships and theycommunicate, they have conversations, and they
have so relationships and treating them aspeople that authenticity and vulnerability is one.

(39:57):
Being able to communicate is to andcommunicate and regular really like communicating about not
only where you need to improve andwhat I want you to work on,
but also communicating and praising them whenthings go well, like communicating them on
and praising them when progress is made, and also providing clarity around what their
role is on team, what theexpectations are, what they are looking for,
so that the athlete does not haveto walk around confused and wondering.

(40:20):
That communication goes a long way towardshelping people understand what's expected so that they
can appropriately channel their energy and theireffort and give what it is that they're
expected to give, and maybe evenmore than that, but that clarity gives
them a pathway to work with.I think the other two things that stand
out for me, and they're kindof relating are these notions of empathy and

(40:45):
this notional humility, right, Sounderstanding trying to understand where everyone is coming
from, even knowing that we areall coming together towards one purpose, right,
still making room for they're folks tobe the individuals that they are while
we are collectively coming together to worktowards this common goal. In that way,

(41:07):
I think about it as like apuzzle pieces, right. Some of
the most effective coaches that I haveseen and observed and work with kind of
recognize we're all different puzzle pieces,right, And as a puzzle piece,
we're all unique, and we're alldifferent. We bring different skills to the
table. We have different weaknesses,we have different strength, we have different
growth edges, we have different talents, we have different ways of interacting and

(41:30):
engaging. But every piece of thepuzzle puzzle is needed in order for us
to have a complete picture. Andso they allow room for every puzzle piece
to be different, knowing that thegoal is to bring those pieces together so
that they can have a complete picturethat works for everyone. And so I
think that too becomes a really importantstrength of a coach. So that authenticity
and vulnerability, which leads to thedevelopment of variable relationships, the ability to

(41:53):
communicate often and effectively about the challengesand about the successes, and then also
this level of kind of empathy andhumility and understanding and allowing room for the
different puzzle pieces on their team,and still creating momentum towards all of the

(42:14):
pieces, wanting to come together tomake the collective picture that allows all of
them to be successful, to movetowards their desired collective and shared goals.
Those core characteristics has some great insightauthenticity, vulnerability, empathy, humility.
And I think another way that coachescan help in modeling the way is this

(42:37):
concept of self care and how theycan practice self care. And you know,
doctor G, I don't know howyou do it between your private practice,
supporting the NBA, serving on numerousboards, and then you also have
shared a little about yourself self describedsci fi fantasy, superheroes fanatic, you

(42:59):
enjoy being in nature, you enjoyspending time with your family. But I
feel this phrase of self care sometimesit's misunderstood a lot of people think,
oh, it means you got togo take a vacation to practice self care.
So can you give some advice here? How can coaches and student athletes
practice self care and is self caresomething that people can do proactively to maintain

(43:22):
and enhance their mental wellness? AndI will say this straight up. I
talk about self care, and Ithink self care is very, very important,
and it is one of the hardestthings for me to do. Right,
So, even as I'm about totalk to you about how you might
be able to think about it,I recognize that it sometimes can be really

(43:44):
really challenging to carve out times forourselves. But when I think about self
care, or if you want tosay it differently, because sometimes that phrase
of self care for some people thatfeels like it's selfish, right, Like,
yeah, I don't know if Iwant to focus on myself. So
I think about it is how areyou integrating kind of wellness into your daily
life? What are you doing torefuel, recharge, and reenergize yourself on

(44:05):
a regular basis? Right, youdon't even have to think about it as
self care, but asking that questionbecause we extend energy in the different activities
that we engage in on a dailybasis, and if we're not doing anything
to recharge, reenergize, and replenishourselves, then that is a fast track
to being exhausted. Depleted and potentiallyfeeling a sense of burnout. And so
what I ask people to think aboutis what are you doing to recharge?

(44:30):
And you can't just recharge every nowand then, right, You will notice
I love speaking in analogies because Ithink that communicates the point. I imagine
everybody who's listening right now. Aremany people who are listening right now have
some type of device that they useon a regular basis, whether it's a
tablet, a computer, a smartphone, of watch, something that you might

(44:52):
need to charge in order for itto work properly. Right, And so
you think about that device that youhave, you do not charge that device
on Sunday and then expect it towork for the rest of the week without
ever charging it again. Right.At a minimum, we probably charge our
devices overnight, but sometimes we've usedit so much during the day that we
might have to charge it for amoment during the day so that it can

(45:14):
continue to work for the duration ofour work days, whatever that may look
like. And so that's the samething that we have to think about for
ourselves, what are we doing torecharge? And wellness exists in many,
many different domains, So there's physicalwellness, mental and emotional wellness, social,
spiritual, occupational, like intellectional intellectualwellness. I'm sorry. So we

(45:35):
have to think about what are wedoing in a number of different ways to
help refuel and recharge ourselves. Youalready said from me, I am a
sci fi, fantasy, speculative fictionfanatics. So whether I'm watching something on
Netflix or reading something, that's theway that I recharge. If I can
take time to engage in that typeof activity, it really is recharging and

(45:57):
rejuvenating for me. I do loveto hike. It's been incredibly hot here
in Atlanta, so I have notdone that much lately. But movement is
really important, whether that is orwalk around my neighborhood, whether that is
yoga or pelates in my living room, whether that is hopping on a peloton
bite that right now is collecting moredust than anything else, but it's there,

(46:19):
and so if I want to hopon it, I can. But
thinking about the ways in which weare integrating movement into our lives, you
said, my social support system reallyimportant for me, and so talking to
my family, talking to my friendsis really important. And if I think
about the last couple of years,that was a challenge over the last couple
of years in terms of being ableto see people because of the state of
the world and what we were navigatingwith the pandemic that we're still in.

(46:40):
But certainly we had different restrictions aroundour movement a few years ago, a
few months ago. But it's importantfor everybody listening to ask yourself, what
is it what activities when I'm aroundwhat people do I feel recharged, re
energized, And then ask yourself howoften do I engage in those activities?

(47:02):
Right? Because identifying your wellness activitiesgreat, but if you don't do them,
you don't get the benefit of them. And so when I think about
self care, when I think aboutour recharge rejuvenation activities, one, we
have to be intent first. Wehave to be aware of what they are,
aware of what it is that makesme feel recharged too. We have

(47:22):
to be intentional about carving time outon our schedule to do them, whatever
those activities may be. And youdon't have to do the activity. You
don't have to have an hour.All you need is ten minutes, fifteen
minutes, right, So how oftendo I do them? How regularly am
I doing them? And then askyourself. Do I feel recharged afterwards?
And if you don't, you mightneed to explore, well, that might

(47:45):
not be recharging me as much.What is recharging to me? Right?
But we have to be aware ofwhat we need. We have to be
intentional about doing it because we arehuman beings, not human doings, and
so we need to be able topause, to be to recharge, have
moments where we are not so focusedon productivity, work, responsibility expectations where

(48:07):
we can actually allow ourselves to bereplenished and recharged and restored. There has
historically been this idea that the waythe success is to grind, grind,
grind, hustle, hustle, hustle, work, work, work, move,
move, give one hundred and fiftypercent at all times. That's a
recipe for burnout, and that's arecipe for exhaustion, and that's not a
recipe or sustained excellence. Rest andrecovery are a part of our success journeys.

(48:31):
They are not separate from it.And so we have to expand our
idea of the role of rest,recovery, wellness, self care in allowing
us to be productive instead of thinkingthat it's a roadblock to our productivity.
It really is one of the thingsthat fuels are sustainable excellence and performance.
Thank you for those examples, andyou know it's certainly something I'm personally working

(48:54):
on, this concept of practicing selfcare, pausing and reach charging as I
continue my journey with week coach andtransitioning to this new role. It's something
I think about often. But youmentioned the pandemic. I actually learned and
taught myself to cook during the pandemic, and that's one of my ways that

(49:15):
I can recharge. And if youthink about it, other than following a
recipe on my phone, I can'tbe on my phone when I'm cooking in
the kitchen. That just or youknow. So that's one way that I've
discovered has been really beneficial for me. I also was certified in scuba diving,
and I didn't realize this, butthe breathing you have to practice under
the water as part of scuba divingis very therapeutic and helps with some of

(49:39):
that rest and relaxation. So thoseare two ways that through the pandemic that
I've actually learned new ways for myselfto recharge. But as we talk about
pausing and recharging, I did readan article you talked about the NBA and
w NBA players engaging an activism andadd vocacy work, and you acknowledge the

(50:01):
emotional toll that that work that goesalong with this important work, and so
I wanted to ask you a littlebit about checking in. What does that
look like and how does one checkin? Yeah, I think it's important.

(50:22):
I think that advocacy work that you'retalking about. I mean, the
w NBA just last night at theSPS was named the Humanitarian League of the
Year, I think, and sothat just speaks to the ways in which
they are not only engaged in doingthings and they're personal lives, but they're
engaged and they're involved in their communityand through different forms of activism and advocacy.

(50:45):
And again, I think we've seenthe same thing with the NBA,
and we're seeing it with a lotof athletes as well. And I think
but before I answer the question,I want to say that you know,
this advocacy and activism I think isimportant as we're again thinking about the fact
that we're Bipopmental Health Awareness Month.I think people are often engaged in initiatives,

(51:06):
activities, endeavors that speak to them, right and again, so when
we think about our athletes and theidentities that they hold, a lot of
our athletes are engaged in these activitiesbecause they speak directly to who they are
as people, right and these arethese are issues that are sailing it for
them those in their community, andthey're passionate about them. And I think
for any of us when we're engagedin their front civic type at endeavors like

(51:29):
civic engagement and civic responsibility. It'sgreat to be involved in your community.
That's important for us to think aboutnot only how are we taking care of
ourselves, but how are we takingcare of each other? But yes,
to your point, it can havea toll. And so when this idea
of checking in, I think oneit's having an awareness of what your baseline
is. So your baseline in termsof your feeling, and when you might

(51:52):
be reaching points where you are overextending yourself or where you may need to
step back in order to engage inmore we're charging. So said how do
you check in? I think youcan ask yourself questions One is what am
I thinking? How am I feeling? And what do I need in this
moment? Because the ways in whichstress or being overextended may manifest can look

(52:12):
different for all of us. Forsome of us, it may look like
it may manifest in our thinking.The way we think, in the type
of thoughts we have may tend tobe more in the negative direction when we
find ourselves being stressed or a bitoverwhelmed physically, For a lot of people,
our emotions can manifest as muscle tension, headaches, gastro and testimal issues,

(52:35):
feelings of exhaustion and fatigue. Rightbehaviorally, it may look like us
withdrawing from our friends and from socialsettings. It may look like us spending
more time alone. It may looklike us not engaging in some of those
wellness practices that we would typically engagein if we felt and we're in a
different place that we felt better andwe're in a different place. So I
think the check in is just pausefor a second and ask yourself, what

(52:58):
am I thinking in this moment,how am I feeling in this moment,
and what if anything, do Ineed in this moment, and just kind
of developing the habit of asking yourselfto get a gauge of where you are
in any given moment. I thinkis important every time you ask yourself.
Sometimes you might ask those questions andyou might be hum, I'm actually good,
that's okay. That is allowed everytime you check in. It doesn't

(53:21):
mean that there's a problem. Butagain, it's just important for us to
get to get in the habit ofbeing aware of where am I mentally today,
where am I emotionally today, becausethen that allows you to also ask
what, if anything do I needin this moment, so that you can
be a bit more proactive about attendingto your needs rather than only attending to
them when you're in a moment ofdistress or when you've reached that breaking point,

(53:43):
whatever it might be. Thank youfor that. We coach community,
we challenge you, each one ofyou listening, to go do something that
recharges you. And please, aswe go forward, be mindful to check
in with yourselves take care of yourselves. Doctor Kenza Gunter, we appreciate you
so much for discussing this critically importanttopic with us and pouring into our week

(54:06):
Coach community today. We wish youthe very best as you continue to lead
in the important work that you do, and we welcome you back to our
week Coach community anytime. Thanks forlistening to episode four of the Week Coach
Podcast Season five, and thank youagain to our sponsor, Huddle and production
partner With Sports. Please join usagain on August eleventh for a sneak preview

(54:30):
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(54:50):
options, please visit our website atwee coach sports dot org. Until next
time, keep moving the numbers.We teach, we inspire, we motivate,
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