Episode 46 - Dr. Veronica Skrimsjö, Author and Researcher - The Women in Vinyl Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
M hmmm. Welcome to the Womenin Vinyl Podcast with Jen du Genio,
founder of Women in Vinyl, andcontributor Robin Raymond. This podcast facilitates conversations
with those working in the vinyl recordindustry to educate, demystify, and diversify
the vinyl community. M hm mmm hmmm, mm hmmm mm hmmmm mm

(00:34):
hm m h m h m mhm m h m hmm. Thank you

(01:37):
for tuning in to episode forty sixof the Women Vinyl Podcast and the last
of twenty twenty three. You justheard part time drummer by the all female
nine piece brass band The Brass Queensfrom Brooklyn, New York. Inspired by
the New Orleans tradition, their newestalbum, Black and Gold, is out
now via www dot Brass Queens NYCslash online store. It's our final episode

(02:04):
of the year and we're closing itout on the thoughtful topic of diversification of
vinyl. We're looking at the topicnot only from an employment but collector review.
We sat down with Women in VinylAdvisory Board member, educator, author,
and researcher doctor Veronica scrimcra to discusswhat she has uncovered on the topic
why certain generalizations and stereotypes happen inwhat we can do to break them down.

(02:29):
Learn more on this topic and checkout her upcoming publication, The Vinyl
Revival, Gender and Collecting Esthetics.In the meantime, you can buy her
first release, I Me Mine,an Initial consideration of popular Music record collecting,
esthetics, identities, and practices.Find links in the show notes for

(02:50):
more and we look forward to seeingyou next year. Would you please introduce
yourself and let everybody know how yougot into vinyl. So I am doctor
ronic a skim kra I write alot about records. I teach a lot
about records and popular music. Igot intervinyl in I think it was about

(03:14):
April two thousand and one because Iwas living on a farm and got bored
and my dad had a huge recordcollection, and I thought, well,
we haven't connected the turntable, thespeakers or anything, and that could take
me a couple of hours. Soit was just about the technical side of
things and having something to do.And once I achieved that, I thought,

(03:35):
well, I should test it,I should see if it actually works.
And I found Robbert Soul and Ithought the cover looked really cool.
So I thought, well that'll do, and yeah, that was it never
looked back. That's I mean,considering the world records you have behind you,
that says something. Either you're aprofound worder or you just dove in

(04:01):
without with reckless abandon which I'm totallyhere for both. Yea, I might
have plastered my walls in that bedroomwith Beatles lyrics. Yeah, and you're
on the Women in Vinyl because ofit as well. Sorry, oh no,

(04:23):
I moved to Liverpool because of itas well. It was just everything
all at once. That's incredible.Yeah, well you're on the Women in
Vinyl board and we're very thankful tohave you, and you are an educator
and we were going to talk aboutthe book that you have coming out next
year, so why don't you tellus a little bit about that? So

(04:48):
I, well, I wanted towrite something about vinyl again because it's just
I've realized it's my research areat waswhat I like doing, so I might
as well kind of keep going atit. And I was thinking, well,
what is it that needs saying more? And I kept toying with the

(05:11):
idea for a while, and Iwent back and reviewed all of my old
books that I used for the firstbook and felt that, well, they
were still perpetuating all of those thingsabout gender and we weren't getting away from
it. And I dove into morecontemporary discourse and I found it still the

(05:32):
same thing. We're still saying exactlythe same things about record collecting being essentially
ninety nine percent male, and Ithought, well, I've never recognized that
reality. And I thought, ifwe just had discussions about record collecting,
we'd realized that that wasn't the caseand had the moment of realization of no,

(05:56):
that's not happening. So if noone else is going to say it,
then I'm going to say it.So really sit into Okay, let's
talk about record collecting right now intwenty first century with the vinyl revival.
That's handy, and let's address thatthing of gender really, really clearly,
and at least then I've made mypeace with it. Yeah. It's super
interesting because we had Carolyn on thepodcast last year, who you know,

(06:18):
wrote about sort of this gender bias, and I'm curious because you mentioned that
some of the other ones bias arestarting to kind of or stereotypes are starting
to kind of dissipate. What weresome of those other ones and why do
you think that those are starting togo away where gender isn't. I think

(06:39):
we have a lot more access tothe different communities, so we can see
that it's not just the people whogo to our record shops that our collectors
and interested in vinyl, and thesales figures speak for themselves. So even
if you're not really into it,there's so much press about who's buying records

(06:59):
that you really have to work hardat not recognizing that there are more people
than just the ones you see aroundyou kind of buying it. But I
think the issue with gender, frommy point of view, it's been like
the biggest hurdle. There are stillissues in terms of other kind of identities,
but gender seems to be the onethat's sticking the hardest. And I

(07:23):
think that has to do with thecrossover of sexualization of technology and women and
kind of objectifying women into technology.So by being a female record collector or
a woman presenting record collector, that'sa challenge to so many areas that it
becomes very very tricky. So interesting, Yeah, well, and it probably

(07:46):
you're finding corollaries in like when you'resaying technology like cars and not specifically turntables,
but what other areas of tech areyou Are you seeing that that kind
of perpetuates. So yeah, causeis a big one as well. There's
been a lot of work in thepopular music studies community in terms of just

(08:07):
audio gear generally and any kind ofproduction. So if we're talking a music
studio, very very kind of genderedarea and very difficult for women to get
into anything that involves plugging things intothings and pushing buttons. Apparently that's that's
dangerous. Well, right about howdo you think because like if you look

(08:33):
back into like the forties and fifties, like women were primarily the record collectors,
the record buying because they were responsiblefor getting like the consoles, and
because it was looked at as furniture, right, So because they were hosting
parties and whatever in their houses,they were like, oh, this record,

(08:54):
this record player fits into my life, into into by design, and
so how do you think that thatchanged? Where they were we were the
primary focus with that and like beingthe record like the tastemakers and into like
this gap of the fifth like thisminefield of the sixties and seventies and eighties

(09:16):
and then now we're here where we'relike, oh, no, we've been
here all along, but why doyou have you found anything in your research
that shows why there is that thatkind of like we were here and then
we kind of disappeared into the background, and then we're kind of trying to
clar ways back up. So thebiggest thing I would say comes from just
collecting studies in general, because allof the statistics indicate that when we're children,

(09:41):
women, men, non binary peoplecollect in kind of completely equal amounts
and kind of very similar patterns.Then during adolescens that's when things start to
change in the perception of collecting,not in the actual practice. So for
women, women presenting people, theycollect more domestically and privately, whereas men's

(10:05):
collections become more of a public displayand it becomes that thing of capital culture
of showing up of look at me, I have all of this stuff,
Therefore I'm important, And that's kindof the opposite behavior of women, and
that leads on into adulthood, whereagain it's about domestic items, and the

(10:26):
domestic space has never been seen asequally important as the public space. So
women who collect cosmetics and things likethat we don't usually talk about it as
a collection because it's just makeup,so it becomes less important. And it's
kind of similar in terms of recordsthat Okay, yeah, you might be
collecting records, but you're really justdoing it to enhance your home, and

(10:50):
therefore it's not as important, whereaswhen a man does it, it's because
he's really interested in music, orhe wants to further his music education somehow
become a better guitar or whatever itmight be. So it's always that kind
of association of the domestic space thatwe're kind of being confined too. Do
you think that that has because nowwe have these tiny little snapshots into our

(11:13):
lives that we think that everybody caresabout with like Instagram and whatever. Do
you think that that's maybe one ofthe reasons, because now we're all very
much like, oh look at me, look at me. I think that's
had an impact. And I thinkInstagram is or women have mastered Instagram very

(11:35):
well and in lots of ways kindof kilaim that space. I think that
was helpful. I know for meas well, it's been a lot easier
kind of just opening the app andgoing, we'll look at all of these
other women who are collecting, sothere's definitely that space. I also think
that if we look at the numberof kind of new pressed records, kind

(11:58):
of the contemporary stuff that's being released, that is predominantly being purchased by young
women, So that statistic also helpsvery much, which then unfortunately leads to
a discussion of well, if they'rejust buying the latest Taylor Swift and Harry
Styles, then they're not real recordcollectors. Also problematic, but at least
it kind of gets a discussion goingand saying, well, they are buying,

(12:22):
and they're buying in huge amounts,so we need to consider that.
Yeah, I mean to Robin's pointand also to what you're saying too,
I find, like, you know, I was sharing a lot of my
collection really frequently for a period oftime a few years back, and I've
noticed that over the last year.I mean, granted I've had a lot
going on, but there's been thingsthat I've sort of pulled back from that
being a priority because it almost feltlike it became competitive or like like without

(12:48):
like I didn't want that. That'snot ever what I was trying to do,
especially with like the Black Sabbath stuff. I have these guys that like
come out of the woodwork and they'rejust like, oh, well do you
have this one? Why don't youhave this one? Or like you know,
trying to like one up like howmany? How many I have?
Or like, you know, thisis something I got into because I wanted
to like explore it. I lovethis band, and it's just become like

(13:11):
a competition for who has more BlackSabbath and I, you know, and
it just feels like vicky, Idon't know, I don't like it.
So I've just kind of like notbeen posting as much, which kind of
sucks because I feel like that communitywas something that's really special. So and
maybe that's the difference in how youknow, we share or want to be

(13:33):
in this community male versus female.M Yeah, I think that that.
The number of records is also stilla huge sticking point of you have to
have the most, so you haveto have everything. And you know,
even though I've done the PhD,I teach on it, you know,

(13:54):
I've got the credentials on paper tosay I know a thing or two about
record collecting. And we start discussingthese things with new people, they always
go oh, well, I've gotso many records, and I go,
okay, that's super interesting. I'vegot more. But so it's still you
have to like showcase up. Yeah, but I've got one thousand, five
hundred. It's like, okay,well that's great, super right. I

(14:16):
mean, it's become the new liketake it out and measure it in my
oin, and like that's that's oneof the things that I hate so much
about it. But the other questionthat I have is, like we come
back to this statistic a lot oftimes, and especially in the retail environment
right now, where fifty percent ofthe record buying population don't even have turntables.

(14:37):
So when does the like when doesit When do you become a collector?
And like what is the definition Iguess of collecting. Is it just
amassing the thing? Or is it, you know, playing the thing and
like enjoying the thing, or isit just like you who dies with the

(14:58):
most toys dies with the most doyou know what I mean? Like it's
kind of like that whole Like youknow, the guys that collect like little
figurines, and I mean not justguys, but people that collect little figurines
and live them in the boxes too. Like, I'm sure that there's a
whole crap town records that are stillin shrink wrap in people's calaxes around the

(15:20):
world, But does that make thema collector? Is there? Like,
I mean, I hate the conceptof this, but is there like another
identifier that we can give to peoplethat have sealed records versus people that play
their records? That drives me insane. So for me, I've always said
that whoever wants to define themselves asa collector as a collector, because that

(15:45):
was also a barrier that I noticedthat a lot of men were being defined
as collectors, whereas women because theywere more hesitant to take on that label,
they were kind of pushed aside andnot included any literature. So again,
you know that of not just imposingtitles on people and being respectful of
it might come with a lot ofbaggage. So you don't want to be

(16:06):
associated with as a collector. Solet's discuss the practices instead. But generally
speaking, in terms of differentiating collectingfrom hoarding, hoarding is characterized by shame
and collecting is never characterized by shame. So even if you have them in
shuring crap and I've got a coupleof figurines and boxes behind me, I

(16:30):
have a whole bunch of Yeah,it's that. Well, are we displaying
it with pride and are we're willingto talk about it with the right people?
Perhaps, But then that's different.And within vinyl, I think it's
really important to think about consumption againstthe grain, because recorded music has always
been about consumption against the grain.I mean, even the concept recording sound

(16:53):
wasn't made for music, but wemade it that way. So within the
record, if we want to becausebecause the sleeve is cool, then let's
do that. Then let that bethe defining factor. But I also think
that means that some people don't understandthat it's not just music, it's not
just an artifact. It can bemusic and an artifact at the same time.

(17:15):
What other sorts of like threads didyou find through your research as far
as gender, but then also justcollecting in general on the topic, Well,
like I said, generally, there'sno differences in the number of people

(17:36):
who connect it collect in terms ofgender. It's like men and women transidentities
collect inequal amounts the same way.When we kind of make appropriate adjustments,
there might be some differences in thepractices, though again kind of the social

(17:57):
nature of are you doing it becauseyou want to become a better musician or
are you doing it because of someother reason, So that term musician has
also been quite loaded for a lotof people, including myself. Of the
first thing I get asked that,well, if you're a record collector,

(18:17):
do you play music as well?Do you play an instrument? And if
I say yes, then somehow that'sokay. But if I say no,
then it's like, oh, butwhy does it matter? And you have
to have all those records, Sothe term musician becomes very very important.
And then kind of how we're purchasingrecords as well. Things are changing very

(18:41):
very slowly. But that was anotherthing that I felt like I really needed
to address in the book of thespace of the record shop, because we
always talk about the record shop beingsuch an important site for education, and
it is in many ways, butit's also a really important site for discrimination.
So it just thankfully I have agreat local record shop, and even

(19:03):
though it's kind of specializing in alittle bit more alternative stuff, there's never
a case of or you can't comein here, you're not welcome anything is
welcome and always have a discussion there, and that's what it should be like.
But go a bit further into thecity center and you know, had
very different experiences where the people inthe shop refuse to speak to me.

(19:25):
They'll only speak to my husband,even when he tells them, no,
you need to speak to Veronica,and he's the one who's here buying records.
I'm just tagging along, but theystill refuse to address me with anything.
So kind of acknowledging that the spaceplays a part and if it is
this important space that can enhance theculture and that can kind of introduce new

(19:47):
people to it, then we alsohave to think about how to address when
they're really really bad and toxic spacesand when they're excluding people. Yeah,
and that was maybe one of myone of my follow up questions too,
is like we made that differentiation betweenlike hoarding and shame and that kind of

(20:07):
thing, but if you go intoa record store and you have a really
negative experience and maybe that's like yourclosest one, has that translated, do
you think into more purchases on discogsand like Facebook, marketplace and like secondary
solutions to try to find the recordsthat some of these new collectors are trying

(20:29):
to find. Definitely. I meanthere's always ways of getting the records if
you want them, even if it'slike popping to different record fairs and things
like that. And that's the wayI used to do it because I hated
going into record shops. I justI couldn't stand it. So I would
always find alternative ways. So whenpeople would say, oh, but we
don't see these people in the recordshop so well, of course not why

(20:52):
would I go there? But yeah, Discogs has been a huge illuminate.
Came out with their mid year numberis about two months ago that said that
direct to consumeer sales have gone upabove kind of market expectations. So to
me, that's a clear signal thatyou know, these women or other marginalized

(21:12):
identities are kind of going to thoseplaces because they don't have to face the
judgment there. Yeah, I readthat. I read that report as well,
and I found it really interesting.And then going into the record store
that I work at doing ordering forBlack Friday and for like the new release
titles that we have through Universal,there was an entire there was an artist

(21:37):
who dumped all of their I guessleftover tour stock or they're leftover D two
C stock into their label so thatany of them, like any of the
independent record stores could buy it.And I was like, Oh, that's
weird. That's what I was like, that's that's opposite. It's not direct
to consumer at all. But like, do you I mean, do you

(22:00):
think that they also maybe saw thosenumbers and are like, oh, maybe
we should take these variants that wemade specifically for the tour and now put
them into record stores or like possiblyor possibly overestimated how many variants you needed
based on some other successful people.That's an entire conversation on its own completely.

(22:25):
But yeah, that direct to consumerthing is always like an interesting kind
of moment because it is very muchlike the fan like interacting with their with
their person, you know what Imean, and like like doing a limited
edition picture disc or whatever and thenjust having available on your band camp and
like having that exchange I think Ithink has led to a little bit more

(22:48):
of a I don't know, apreciousness of whatever the result is, you
know, like maybe enhancing the collectorexperience a little bit, do you think?
And I think as well, Imean David Crosby was one of my
or is one of my favorite guitaristsingers, and before he died he was
very vocal about this idea of buyit from my web shop, please help

(23:11):
me. You know, I needthe money, and you know, obviously
he wasn't the most popular when hedied, but he had a very long
career and in many ways like setthese expectations within a rock genre. So
you'd think that he would have madeenough money to not have to tell people

(23:33):
I need you to buy it frommy webshop. But I think that kind
of frank discussion and really drawing theconnections for consumers of if you do this
that directly benefits me, if youdo this other thing, then I'm not
seeing any of that. And Ithink more and more artists are kind of
being frank about that and having thoseopen discussions, and as fans, of

(23:55):
course, we want to go andsupport the artists. That's part of why
we're buying to begin with. Yeah, I think it was an interesting point
that people ask about being a musicianwith record collecting, because that's not something
that I've thought about before or personallybeen asked. But something that I have
noticed is maybe the way that menand women share or consume information about musicians

(24:19):
that they like. And I feellike men are male identifying people maybe that
are into sports, for example,have this like crazy amount of knowledge about
specific players and stuff like that.And I feel like that kind of thing
also sometimes translates to music, whereI find more men go down this rabbit

(24:41):
hole of like this person was inthis band and they're in this band and
they play this instrument and this kindof thing, And I feel like women,
maybe at least from my perception,aren't as in that same space.
Do you think was that something thatyou found or do you think that that's
something that maybe separates how we aresharing and collecting. Yeah, I think
that has to deal with that ideadissemination of information and what's important to the

(25:07):
different collectors and how we're told tointeract with the information. I think in
many ways, men and male presentingpeople are told that kind of flaunt this
knowledge, talk about the knowledge,whereas women aren't necessarily taught the same thing
that you know, don't brag aboutwhat you know, and like in Sweden,

(25:33):
we have a specific word for it, the logain you know, don't
make people aware of how much knowledgeyou have, because then you'll see better
than them, and very specifically appliedto women, don't let them know that
you know this, So that Ithink plays part in it. And it's
a bit of a funny story.But so when I got married, we

(25:56):
had led Zeppelin all the way throughthe ceremony, walk down the aisle immigrants,
because why not. But a coupleof weeks later I was with a
man, male colleague, and hejust stopped in the middle of it and
turned to me and went, haveyou heard of this band? Led Zeppelin?
And I thought, are you kidding? In front of all of the
students, You're going to stop andsay have you heard of led Zeppelin?

(26:18):
Have you heard of me? Yes? But what makes you think this is
an appropriate discussion? Even if Ihadn't heard of the band? Why would
you question such a thing? Butthat was like a normal exchange of information
to them, apparently. I mean, I think the fundamental way that you

(26:40):
like understand music can form those kindof conversations, and your ability to have
those like have those conversations in ameaningful way, this conversation about composition and
making music, then you're never goingto be able to have a conversation about
like the music that you like andwhy does that make sense? Oh?

(27:04):
Yeah, definitely. I mean SimonFrith wrote, well, I'm paraphrasing him.
He said that to have any kindof meaningful discussion about music, we
have to agree on a shared aestheticsfirst, and I very much believe that.
You know, I can talk abouthow this downstreammix is the best thing
ever, but if you're looking forsomething to relax to, then we're never

(27:26):
going to agree on that. Sowe have to agree. Okay, what
is the shared aesthetics here? Whatare we looking for? But though the
assumption of those shared aesthetics are usuallymale, are usually rock oriented and guitar
dominated, So if you're anyone whoencroaches on that, there's also a sense

(27:47):
that we have to kind of putyou down a little so you don't threaten
our power and you don't kind ofupset the status quote. But yeah,
I see a lot of that,and it's a constant struggle in popular music
overall. Yeah, well, Imean that's validating for me. So I

(28:07):
like that because I was like,am I crazy? Is this the only
am I the only person that hasto say why I don't like jazz because
like our work in a record storelike jazz either. Yeah, I mean
I do think jazz is one ofthose areas where this is it is a
more male genre. Yeah, italso has a lot of audiophile inherently qualities
to it, so I think thatthat also creates sort of like the technical

(28:32):
barrier for a lot of people.So yeah, I mean I feel like
that makes complete sense. I justdon't any music that's like, oh you
have to come to us to understand. It's like no music should kind of
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(28:56):
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and now back to the episode ronickud. You see specific differences when it comes
to our Rainbow CROWDQAT plus so inmy research, they have been much more

(29:53):
hesitant to kind of be forthcoming andsharing, and I think that's the because
of all the barriers they face generallyin society, that this is just another
one of those things. So Idon't really have enough information to speak of
patterns as such, apart from justthe same discrimination applies that kind of women

(30:18):
face they face as well. Verymuch. I have seen that a lot
of gay men are carving a spacefor them in a kind of pop community,
which I think is great, andthere are I don't want to say

(30:40):
leading, but they're kind of showcasingof this is how it can be done
and opening other doors for people,which is very interesting and I hope that
can spread to other genres and otheridentities as well. But yeah, there's
still a lot of fearing kind ofopening up and sharing that information. Yeah,
I can imagine it's hard enough.I just exist today. Yeah,

(31:00):
no kidding. And do you thinkthat's just like hesitancy to share with you
as a researcher or hesitancy like inthe in the general kind of space.
I think it's a little bit ofboth, because researchers historically have not been
kind unfortunately, so a lot ofit is kind of cultural trauma that lives

(31:21):
on, So any kind of marginalizedcommunities are generally more hesitant, And even
in terms of women who maybe haveless cause for hesitation, I found that
if I interact with them in thefirst instance as a researcher, it can
be very difficult, whereas if Istart a conversation just as a collector,

(31:45):
then it's much easier and they say, well, actually, I also do
this, But that of course posescertain challenges as a researcher because we're taught
be objective and kind of remove yourselffrom it, and it'say, well,
if I remove myself as a collectorfrom it, then I can't conduct the
research. Did you find anything inthe research speaking to women about kind of

(32:07):
the sexualization of sharing their records?Was there a reason that they felt like
that empowered them more or allowed themto be part of the conversation in a
way, or was it Was thereanything that you found on that, because
I know that that's sort of ahot topic on social media, especially like
that what is it vinyl community Instagram, Like a lot of people get real

(32:30):
hot about the fact that, likethe top ten are all women posing with
their records. Did you find anythingabout that as far as empowerment or why
that was a trend. I founda lot of people who claimed it was
about empowerment. I couldn't actually findanyone who kind of enacted that. That's

(32:53):
not to say they're not out there, but I didn't come across anyone who
kind of exhibited all of that ofsaying this is I'm doing this for me,
I'm doing it because I want to, And at the same time didn't
say anything that was kind of flaggingsomething of them. Are you sure without

(33:14):
wanting to kind of reveal anything topersonal or identifying. There was a that
was a very difficult part to writeabout because I felt like it did need
to be addressed because, like yousay, the top posts are always about
some kind of sexualized woman, andthe comments are usually not very kind.

(33:40):
Either it's you know, either somethingof you know, come home to my
bed or something, or why doesthis why you have to dress like a
slut to kind of showcase the recordcollective? So there was no winning at
whatever you did. And again,I think the kind of root cause,

(34:00):
as far as I can see,is that notion of if you present a
sexualized image with a record, youalmost become technology yourself in the views of
the public, in that kind ofmale gaze, and that becomes easier to
process. And then even if youknow something about the records, you're not
a threat because you're not a humananymore. You're an object. So that

(34:22):
was very, very tricky, difficult, but yeah, no one spoke positivity
about it. Yeah, I meanit's hard, even like with women in
vinyl, because we specifically try toshowcase people working in the industry and to
try to remove some of that fromhow we present everybody that we're showcasing and

(34:47):
empowering. But we do get alot of tags of women in their underwear
with photos, and I just Ihave to hide us from that, like
I remove it from our shared stuff. It's not how we're trying to represent
the empowerment of these women. It'slike, if that empowers you, that's

(35:07):
fine, but like that's not howwe want to create a role model aesthetic.
And it's very tricky because in someway I feel bad about doing that,
but it is something at the sametime that doesn't represent our community.
I think maybe we just need tohave a bit more progress on gender in
general and women's sexuality in a recollectingcommunity before it can be accessible to the

(35:32):
public in an empowering way. Likesaid, maybe it's empowering to individuals at
the moment, but to be empoweringfor a community, I think we need
to further along a little bit,because the most common thing I saw was
women who weren't presenting themselves in anykind of sexual way constantly getting harassed and

(35:53):
being asked for feet pictures in particular. So it's like, clearly, even
if you're not engaging with that,you are getting hit by it. And
I've had those messages myself, andit's just great. We all know that
the kind of hidden folder is hiddenfor a reason. Thanks for that hidden

(36:14):
folder, I know. Well,for me, I've always been very loud,
and a few years ago, forlots of different reasons, my voice
was silenced and I kind of spenta long time reflecting over that and why

(36:37):
does this bother me? And obviouslythings happened that I wasn't kind of happy
about, but the big part wasreally the notion that I wasn't in control
of my own narrative. As sincethen I realized that, Okay, obviously
there's only so many people I canreach by speaking out and being vocal about

(37:00):
things. But when I do thatone, I feel like something's happening and
we can have a discussion about things, and those discussions are going further than
just me. So it's very mucha case from my point of view,
that just keep talking about things andif you're able to. Obviously they're people

(37:22):
who don't feel comfortable sharing, whichis absolutely fine as well. But if
you are comfortable being loud about kindof your practices, why things are difficult,
or any challenges that you face,they have a big impact and do
really spread. Okay, so wechange everything and make it more comfory in

(37:44):
record stores, I mean, that'sprobably the first place that we can make
the biggest difference, and then itextends into the Internet and then into hopefully
all of these spaces that we're tryingto train and educate people about that they
can go work in. I mean, this seems like a totally doable thing,
right, Yeah. To make iteven more doable kind of. One

(38:07):
of the calls I made in thebook was to try and form some kind
of network for independent shops so theyhave a bit more support but can also
share information. But obviously that requiresa bit of funding. So if the
governments want to fund record shops tokind of get a netgoing, think that
would be very beneficial. Awesome.Well, just to open that a little

(38:31):
bit more, what do you meana network? What kind of being somebody
that works in a record store,Like, what kind of importion things could
I share with someone with another independentrecord store. Well, even if they
find that certain consumers are scared togo into the back room, maybe we
put a couple of nice records atthe front that they feel like, Okay,

(38:52):
if I recognize this, this isan inviting space, I can trust
this to go in a bit deeperinto it. And maybe there's a way
of kind of sharing more formal educationrather than just that informal stuff of being
in the shop itself. And Ihad a couple of independent shops that felt
like they didn't know enough about theother shops nearby them, and I thought,

(39:15):
well, okay, that seems likewe're missing a trick there. Then
yeah, maybe it's it's unusual,but here in Calgary we have like a
weird little record store collective where we'reall kind of buds. We all have
our own little niche of the populationthat we service, so we often say,

(39:36):
oh, well we don't have it, but you know, Sloth Records
might or Blackbird definitely would because theydo this really well. So yeah,
I mean, maybe maybe that's justunique to my city, but I mean
we're only a city of a millionpeople, so it's a little bit more
achievable. I think we have ninerecord stores here. Yeah. The closest
thing I found was generally, likevery informal Facebook groups, so sharing information

(40:00):
about shoplifters and things like that,and think, well we can go further
than that. Yeah, yeah,Okay, well that's good to know.
Awesome. Yeah, and I knowyou don't have a specific release day yet,
but can you tell people a littlebit about where to find the book
when it is available? But itsname is where to keep an eye out.

(40:21):
The book is called The Vinyl Revival, Gender and Collecting Aesthetics, and
I think the best place is probablyRutledge website when it does come out.
It tries not to look too muchat the historical side of things. There
is a little bit of background historicalcontext, but very much focused on right

(40:44):
now with a huge chapter on genderthat hopefully will have the impact that kind
of I was fueling into it writingit and got a chapter looking at some
specific record shops as well that arevery good. So if anyone's in Gothenburg,

(41:05):
definitely go to Bangyans there. That'sone of my favorites and it's just
a lovely place. Lots of differentgenres there as well. Yeah, I
think that's you know, the mainbits. Awesome. Well, we'll of
course share when it's out. Well, the first book too, so let's
shut out your first book as well. So the first book has a longer

(41:29):
title, let's one book. Iscrazy writing two books, I mean,
lady, what wow? Yeah,for some reason, I decide that I
want to write it in like thisreally condensed period. I do the research
and then I just sit down andjust write. And it's interesting. I
love it. I love it so. But yes, the first book is

(41:51):
called I Me Mine, an InitialConsideration of Popular Music Record collecting esthetics,
identities and practices. I'll put thenotes. Yeah, so your first release
is an LP and this is anEP. Yes, yes, exactly,
but that is more case of recordcollecting in the twentieth century. And it

(42:12):
looks a lot at prog rock,it looks a little bit at Virtigo Records,
which I revive in this book aswell, because it's a Vinyl revival,
so let's revive the label again.But yeah, that's the more historical
bit and this is more in thekind of contemporary bit. But I'm pretty
confident that if you manage to spellmy surname right, you will find both
books because it's a very big name. Okay, so let's just let's spell

(42:37):
that out again for everybody. It'sskr Im Sjo. Okay, excellent,
So everybody should go get both ofher books. I know. I mean,
I'm waiting with bated breath for thesecond one to come out so that
I can read it, and thenmaybe we'll all do like hot take chapter

(42:58):
reads on our Instagram to be likeall right, team live live reading.
Here we go. Yes, guesswhat, Yeah, that'd be good.
Cool. Jen. Do you wantto ask the final and most difficult question
in the entire world? Yes,So, as you probably know, we

(43:19):
always ask someone an impossible question atthe end, which is, if you
could put create your own seven inchand put any song on the A side,
any song on the B side,what would you choose on the side?
I would put carry On by CrosbyStills, Nashing Young and on the
B side, I would put weightby the Beatles. I mean, leave

(43:44):
you to be prepared like this.She's gonna be like, oh, I
have no idea, but of course, of course she's like, oh yes,
actually predict. We're so blessed andhappy to have you on the podcast

(44:06):
to share your brilliance, obviously,but we're so blessed to have you work
so closely with us. With Womenin Vinyl two, I'm I mean,
I can't speak for Jen, butI'd like to speak along with her sometimes,
So I just I just want tosay thank you so much. We're
so we're so grateful. Oh no, thank you for having me. It's
it's wonderful. Yeah, thank youso much. We'll talk to you soon.

(44:36):
We'll have a good evening. Thanksit bye. Thanks for joining us
on the Women in Vinyl podcast.You can join our ever growing list of
sponsors other record labels Selector, CappalDesign, Eargasm, Groove Washer, Glowtronics,
New Gen Audio, and Vinyl RevolutionRecord Show and thanks for sponsoring the

(45:00):
show. Hey. As always,you can join our conversation on Instagram or
send us a note at media atWomenivinyl dot com clock us, send us
info. If you have a question, Yo, we got the answer,
or we'll find it. We won'tlet you. And check out Women in
Vinyl dot com for past episodes,the store, the job board, and

(45:22):
the library of resources. Don't forgetto like and subscribe and give us a
review on your favorite podcast delivery method. You can also contribute to furthering our
mission at patreon dot com slash Womenin Vinyl. Hey guess what this episode
forty five minutes? You know therewas more? You want more? You

(45:43):
get more. Go to patreon dotcom and you can get more and you'll
find all the b sides, thedeep cuts, and the amazing extras,
including longer episodes, and contribute tothe creation of scholarships and educational opportunities to
further the demystification the infiltration of morewomen and non binary identifying humans into the
vinyl making space. Decrease in thoseturnaround times every week. Yeah, we

(46:08):
love your records. We want youto love them too, Women in Vinyl
dot com. This episode has beenbrought to you by Women in Vinyl and
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Episode 46 - Dr. Veronica Skrimsjö, Author and Researcher

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 46 - Dr. Veronica Skrimsjö, Author and Researcher