January 17, 2024 • 48 mins
Happy new year and welcome back to the Women in Vinyl Podcast! New year, new full episode, and in this one you’ll join Jenn and Robyn as we spill the tea about some overarching topics that arose at the end of the year from vinyl prices, to an oversaturated market and the upheaval over Luminate’s reporting. We also talk about some exciting things coming up, where we hope to have an opportunity to see and hear from you more. Don’t miss it!
Check out:
THANK YOU TO OUR SUPPORTERS! The ones that make your vinyl needs even more accessible with so many great codes and resources. Other Record Labels, Koeppel Design, Eargasm, Glowtronics, Nugen Audio, Vinyl Revolution Record Show.
Want to be a sponsor? Email us: info@womeninvinyl.com
As always, join the conversation on Instagram or send us a note at: podcast@womeninvinyl.com
Check out www.womeninvinyl.com for past episodes, the store, job board, and the growing library of resources!
Don’t forget to like, subscribe and give us a review on your favorite podcast delivery method!
You can also contribute to furthering our mission at https://www.patreon.com/womeninvinyl where you’ll find all of the B-Sides, Deep Cuts and amazing extras, including longer episodes and contribute to the creation of scholarships and educational opportunities to further the demystification and infiltration of more Women and Non-Binary identifying humans into the Vinyl Making Space!
Check out:
- Goldmine Article: https://www.goldminemag.com/news/new-record-store-vinyl-sales-chart-announced
- Future of Vinyl Magnetic Mag: https://www.magneticmag.com/2024/01/the-future-of-vinyl/
THANK YOU TO OUR SUPPORTERS! The ones that make your vinyl needs even more accessible with so many great codes and resources. Other Record Labels, Koeppel Design, Eargasm, Glowtronics, Nugen Audio, Vinyl Revolution Record Show.
Want to be a sponsor? Email us: info@womeninvinyl.com
As always, join the conversation on Instagram or send us a note at: podcast@womeninvinyl.com
Check out www.womeninvinyl.com for past episodes, the store, job board, and the growing library of resources!
Don’t forget to like, subscribe and give us a review on your favorite podcast delivery method!
You can also contribute to furthering our mission at https://www.patreon.com/womeninvinyl where you’ll find all of the B-Sides, Deep Cuts and amazing extras, including longer episodes and contribute to the creation of scholarships and educational opportunities to further the demystification and infiltration of more Women and Non-Binary identifying humans into the Vinyl Making Space!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to the Women in Vinyl Podcastwith Jen Dugenie, founder of Women in
Vinyl, and contributor Robin Raymond.This podcast facilitates conversations with those working in
the vinyl record industry to educate,demystify, and diversify the vinyl community.
(00:36):
You look me up Undah It sellme like you know. I'm not afraid
to cry, not afraid. Kids, look me at Bundah sell me what
you not afraid to charm and notafraid. But in the mid night I
(01:03):
come here, your voice singing love, you have it Joy. Welcome back
to the Women in Vinyl Podcast,Episode forty seven. You just heard Whistleblow
by New York City alt pop artistRachel Sage off her new album The Other
Side. Rachel has toured with thelikes of Ani DiFranco, Sarah McLaughlin and
more. You can find the vinylcopy of the Other Side at Rachelsage dot
(01:27):
bandcamp dot com. New Year,New full episode. Join Robin and I
as we spill the tea about someoverarching topics that arose end of the year,
from vinyl prices to an oversaturated marketand the upheaval over illuminates reporting.
We also talk about some exciting thingscoming up. So we hope to see
and hear from you more this year. Enjoy well seven really forty seven,
(01:53):
episode forty seven, We're back,come on, New Year. Just given
it to you all the time,almost almost the Big of five. Oh,
I know, Commitment twenty four,twenty twenty four. Also when do
we sad this thing? Twenty one, twenty two, twenty one. So
(02:19):
it was like right around it wasstill like pandemic times yeah, which is
crazy. Yeah, yeah, becausesome of our episodes were like pandemic and
now are a year long and nowwe're like, is the market oversaturated?
We can't keep up? We needmore stuff? Oh god, we need
(02:40):
more stuff. Now we have toomany things. But it's so true though,
it's so true. I mean,yeah, we don't have enough paper
products. There's not enough plastic becauseeverybody's making face shields, and now here
(03:00):
we are. Yeah, well maybemaybe we're a pretty second pandemic. Who
knows. What's amen. So let'sget into some of the tea. Yeah
so much. Twenty thirty three wasa hot year for things, Yes,
(03:21):
lots of things. Wow, notonly the hottest year on record, I
mean yeah, that's double on chundertoo. But yeah, it was a
spicy year, both in the newson the turntables and just in the general
climate. So that was nice.We should do you think we should start
with the big thing that's been inthe news everywhere with Illuminate. Wow,
(03:46):
let's do it. Let's talk aboutIlluminate, because I mean, I loved
up to this point, I haveloved referencing. I feel like talked about
we love our Tuesday takeaways. Imean, thing had some they had some
good data all the time, andI was like, oh really, I
mean the number of times that Idropped the only fifty percent of the buying
(04:09):
population has a turntable, Like Ishould get paid for that? Where are
my royalties? But now, likeI'll like, I'll let you preface this
because I'm still a little gobsmacked byit, to be honest. Yeah,
I mean, I'm not sure ifpeople saw or if it was too like
(04:29):
working in the industry specific, butrecently they stopped weighing in sales from record
stores, and so Record Store Day, the Vinyl Alliance and Vinyl Record Manufacturers
Association all joined up to say thatyou know, that wasn't right, and
it was misrepresenting what we were doing, and it was going to be a
(04:53):
bad thing for Vinyl and Illuminate.It was basically like, Eh, we
don't carry it. This is easier. I mean it's crazy too, because
like the reporting that they used todo was like pretty convoluted anyway, Like
if you had one checkbox not checkedappropriately, then they would not honor your
(05:15):
reportings anyway. So I mean it'sit's interesting to I mean this parkins back
to the barcode and why we startedputting barcodes on things because nobody knew who
was selling what and where it wasselling, and that was like back in
the heyday of like media sales.Yeah, the bar code. I'm just
(05:41):
I'm going to google this. I'mnot even I'm not even gonna be precious
about it and try and pretend thatI know this off the top of my
head, because I don't. Yeah, at what point in your collection and
when you're discogsing, do barcodes appearexactly? Yeah, because it says in
some of the research we were doing, they'd previously boosted numbers, yeah,
(06:02):
from one reporting store to offset thetransaction of a non reporting store, but
now they're only counting sales from seventytwo record stores out of over fifteen hundred,
which is crazy. Yeah, andthat's only in the States too,
so like it doesn't matter, Like, I mean, I know that America
(06:23):
is the center of the universe obviouslyfor everyone, but like it's interesting to
know that they don't have anything inplace for any other country too, right,
Yeah, I mean when you thinkabout seventy two stores, I mean
that's we probably have more than thatin our women owned list at this point.
Absolutely. Yeah. They started puttingbarcodes on records in nineteen eighty three,
(06:49):
specifically on forty fives CBS did that, but I mean they started to
do that because they needed to,yeah, try and figure out what was
actually like what the actual number onerecord in America was because of I mean
royalties specifically, but that's exactly it. So it was like, you know,
(07:13):
if people were misrepresenting things because oflet's say, Paola, oh weird,
I mean your research on that one, because it's also fascinating, but
you know it are we kind ofgoing back to that, Like what I
don't I just don't understand what they'regoing to gain by that, because every
single record store, I mean especiallyup here, like we have all we
(07:36):
have our own like little niches.H. So I mean like, yeah,
it's a lot more jazz records thananother record store in Calgary. But
so we were if we were likethe one of the seventy two and like
how did they pick those seventy two? Yeah, And it's just it's weird
to me. It kind of goesback to something similar that I feel about
(07:59):
women in vinyl is like a lotof people are ignoring physical media and the
people that are involved in it.And so it's like once again, Okay,
great for Taylor Swift, Great forall these people that are selling millions
and millions of records, but likewhat about all the people making them?
We don't have anything to track ifthere's nobody making them and selling them and
part of this ecosystem. So Ithink it is kind of like tone deaf,
(08:22):
no pun intended to like really youknow, yeah, So I mean
it seems, yeah, it seemsa bit backwards to look at something that
is growing or has been growing overseventeen years exponentially mm hmm, just like
cut its legs out from underneath itwhen we know that we're selling I mean,
(08:46):
just again, shout out to ourbud, Billy Fields. Billy Fields
does the numbers every single week.Why didn't they ask Billy what about about
selling? Like Billy would know,well, he's part of these organizations too,
like that. That's probably yeah,I mean he probably was, Like
(09:07):
I can imagine him just like twistinghis mustache, swinging around in his chair,
being like this is ill advised andhere's how and here's what the actual
numbers are. So, I meanfor somebody that actually like looks at those
numbers week to week to week,I'm sure that's like a big old slap
in his face too, which iscrazy. Yeah. And up until recently,
(09:30):
you know, everybody was asking thatthey start tracking more stores and so
it sounds like Street Pulse, whichI don't know much about, but them
and Record Store Today have teamed upto launch a weekly indie vinyl sales chart
and they are going to track pointof sale data from independent retailers. Currently
(09:50):
two hundred plus with plenty more onthe way. The Vinyl fifty published by
Hits Empowered by Streets. Yeah,we'll see, man, I mean,
it definitely seems like they would bemore tapped in. Yeah, yeah,
I'm reading this gold Mine magazine thingagain, just to yeah, try and
(10:11):
wrap my head around it. It'scrazy though. It just seems like they
are just ignoring the industry on thehighest level. Yeah. There was a
quote from one of these articles thatsaid, among the stores now reporting Atlanta's
beloved Criminal Records owner Eric Levin isalso the founder of the Alliance of Independent
(10:35):
Media Stores, co founder of RecordStore Day. My store has been a
proud sound scan supporter since nineteen ninetyone. We treated it like a badge
of honor. When Illuminate took overand began enforcing new rules and regulations on
us, our relationship with them wasover. Yeah, but we'll link these
articles in the show notes so thateverybody can read it. You guys can
(11:00):
tell us what you think about it. Yeah, I mean, do you
care listeners dear listeners selling because Imean, as just as this is Jena
saying, like, just as acareer path. Yeah, we want to
make sure the records are still sellingand that we all still have jobs.
But I mean, well, justas like somebody that purchases new vinyl for
(11:22):
the store. I mean, I'vebeen seeing a lot of titles that are
like direct to consumers from the artistsand they're they're giving them like their extra
quantity to their label to sell afterlike the tour is done too. So
I mean, yeah, I justI want to know what the criteria are.
I want to know who decided whothese seventy two stores are. I
(11:46):
want to know where these seventy twostores are, Yeah, because that just
seems like another kind of like weirdlittle dare I say it, boys Club?
Yeah? What size are the stores? Yeah? That might yeah,
that might be problematic. Yeah,like we're I mean, I wonder if
dear Amanda Schutzman would know anything aboutthese criterion criteria. But yeah, there's
(12:13):
just there's so many questions. There'sso many questions. Yeah, some of
the other things that I think oneof them that ties into this, and
we've sort of talked about it before, but is you know, the rising
price of final Every day, everysaying Gulf Day in the record store,
I get asked this question. Imean, you know, it's one of
those things where, yeah, likeI remember when you could go to a
(12:35):
record store, you know, havefifty bucks walk out with more than one
record. Nowadays not so much.What are your thoughts being in a shop.
I tell people that it is sillyfor them to expect records to not
(12:58):
appreciate in value given the current economicstate. And also if you look at
just regular old inflation, I mean, why would records be the one thing
that is hermetically sealed in a timecapsule for all of time? For price
wise, Like you go back tonineteen seventy three and you're buying a record
(13:20):
and what maybe a double album wasthirty dollars maybe Okay, Well, when
you adjust for inflation and all ofthose things, like what would that record
be probably sixty or seventy dollars.Guess what, It's probably underpriced. So
I mean really like lettuce is likenine dollars, and like there's there's probably
(13:46):
fifteen people involved in making Lettuce,So why would a record be any different
than that when there's you know,twenty seven or thirty people that are involved
in that. Like, why isit always an Like I don't know if
this is just because of the musicbusiness in general and how musicians and everybody
(14:11):
associated with the music business, becauseI mean most of us all came from
being in some sort of musical endeavor. But you are always used to playing
for free and you were always usedto being undervalued because there's no hope of
a union ever. And I mean, I don't know if it goes back
to like the first time that theyput a radio in a car and that
(14:33):
you made music free, and thuspeople thought that they were entitled to it
at that point, you know,but like when we made it, when
when we started streaming music, wemade it, we devalued it immediately.
Any any musician knows that, LikeSpotify's craziness is just like adds to all
(14:54):
of that as well. But like, what what did they what did these
people think that records should be pricedat? Like we're now in a luxury
item environment. Yeah, so Imean unless you're just searching for used records,
which I mean is great for usbecause we have a huge used selection
(15:16):
at record Land comes with, butthat's not the case for every single record
store. Some only do new vinyland that's great, but like yeah,
sometimes yeah, like sometimes the markupsare substantial, but they kind of have
to be because nobody is going towork in that record store for nothing.
(15:41):
Yeah, I'd like, I mean, are you seeing any decline or people
with resistance to pay it? Likeor is it just something that they're complaining
about. I mean, there's definitelylike a hey, can you do all
the math for me? And thenthey decide at the counter like which ones
they might put back. You know, they they hum and hob or some
(16:04):
something sometimes or you know, sometimesI'll be like, oh, well you
have like these five records. Youcould get this box set and have them
all together for a little bit cheaper, and they're like, oh, that's
great, And I'm like, yeah, so there's like there's potentials for that,
but that's just because I know theinventory really well. But I mean
it's there's also the like combating discogstoo, because you know someone's like,
(16:29):
oh, I can get that forfifteen dollars on the internet, and I'm
like, well, then go doit. Whatever. What does your oyster
baby like, I'm not I didn't. I didn't pull you into the store
and like thrust this record in yourhand. You can do whatever you want.
But yeah, I don't know.I mean, it's I don't want
to say that it's a certain type, gender, age of person that generally
(16:56):
has these comments and they're all kindof linked in a certain way. Well
that might be the kind of interestingthing, right, Like because I think
with rising costs, you think,well, maybe that'll create a barrier entry
for younger people. But that isn'tthe demographic that we're alluding to. So
like the kids are coming in andbuying records, yeah, and CDs and
(17:22):
tapes, and I mean they're inthe used records like nobody's business. It's
awesome. I mean sometimes they askme for records that like we have no
prayer of getting because they're all fromJapan, and I'm like, how are
you finding out about these records?What is happening? But yeah, I
mean sometimes it's just a point ofhaving the conversation to educate them a little
(17:45):
bit much why Women in Vinyl existsmuch why this podcast exists to just kind
of pull back the curtain on someof these things to be like yo,
like records are cheap. Nothing ischeap now. Rent costs eighty five percent
of your paycheck, so like whywould records be any different? Yeah,
(18:07):
just because it's a bunch of peoplethat like are doing that, like never
work a day in your life ifyou do what you love, Like is
that what it is? Like thesepeople are just like living off of the
exposure that they get, Like no, dude, I don't know. I
do what I love, and Idefinitely work. I mean, you work
twenty two hours a day, honey, So I definitely am there with you.
(18:32):
You Yeah, you too. Ithink interestingly like some of the stats
on this, so that people kindof know what we're talking about. By
twenty twenty five, Finals projected tohit a seven percent annual growth rate,
with the global sales nearing one hundredand twenty million and a value of three
point nine billion. The growth ispropelled by hybrid retail pricing artists inclination towards
(18:56):
Final evident with increasing gen Z buyermographic And that's the thing. I mean,
it's the limited editions. I mean, and it's like a higher price
point. I mean, Travis Scottjust hit one million dollars in merch sales
in one night at one show.So I mean, is it the record
(19:21):
that's the problem, or I meanis it a sixty five dollars T shirt
or a seventy dollars T shirt?I mean I talk about I don't know
about absolutely. I mean, yeah, like there's which I appreciate, which
I appreciate the cure always, butespecially for you know, we went to
their show. It was like wewere back in the nineties. Get a
(19:42):
shirt for twenty bucks. And thenI go to see other bands that I
love and I'm paying sixty five dollarsfor a T shirt eighty five dollars for
sweater, and I'm just like,you know, it's too much for me.
So well, And I mean that'sthe thing, like when people ask
me about like the label and stuff, and I'm just like, well,
(20:03):
the only way that artists make moneynow are through physical media and touring,
and that's it. But merch ratessustain independent venues in some cases, especially
with the rising tide of people beingsober, and that's an uncomfortable position for
people in bars to have where thevenue only opens for the bands to play.
(20:30):
Where are they getting their money from, Because it's not always the bar
that's putting on the show or thevenue that's putting on the show. Sometimes
it's a promoter that's renting at thevenue and paying the band and paying you
know, some sort of a rentsituation. But that's not always equitable for
the bar or for the club orthe venue, right, So sometimes they
count on that merch rate. Soyeah, bands will mark up T shirts
(20:55):
to offset the merch rate. AndI mean we're talking like ten percent times
twenty percent on soft goods. Imean I always raise back and like holler
back at people when they're charging ratelike hard goods, which is like record
CDs like that kind of stuff,because I'm like, we definitely had nothing
to do with this band's music,So don't take anybody off of that.
(21:17):
That's weird. Yeah, So thatthat's usually a fight that I win.
But and I think something interesting,you know that you said about supporting local
venues is I almost think and we'llget into this topic in a minute,
but like almost support your local recordpressing plan as well, I mean,
or your Lathe cutter. I meanI think, you know, again,
(21:37):
we'll talk about what that landscape lookslike. But we're paying so much for
labels on different continents and coasts toimport and export final like flying them to
distributors or you know, even shippingjust on a boat is expensive. So
you know, I think the morepeople can kind of share. Yeah,
(22:00):
I'm a European label, but Ihave a US pressing plant. Do my
US portion, and then the gasand the transportation and the shipping on that
goes to a US distribution center.Now I've saved hundreds of dollars, maybe
that price per unit of the vinylisn't as much well, And I mean
and that's like a really global wayof thinking about it too. And I
(22:21):
mean now that we have more capacity, yeah, globally that might be a
better solution for some labels and stuff. But I know, like being one
of the aforementioned lathe cut people,you know, people like get a quote
from a pressing plant and then they'llget a quote for me, and then
they'll sit on that and then they'llbe like, oh, well can They'll
(22:41):
inevitably come back to me and say, well, this plant and blah can
do it for this much. Canyou match this price? And I'm like,
well no, because I can't makea record every twenty two seconds.
I don't know if anybody else's productionschedule has been affected in the ways that
mine have, since production times havecome way way down now because of increased
(23:06):
capacity and everybody kind of catching upand stuff too. So well, yeah,
maybe and maybe we like kind ofjust jump into that, like I
would be interested to know, becauseI know with pressing I haven't had to
hustle like I have recently, sincetwenty eighteen, it's definitely more of chase
him down. And I know,you know, during the pandemic, you
(23:30):
know, vinyl sales capacity was verylimited. But since then, I mean,
we have what over one hundred andsixty pressing plants or something like that
in the US. It's crazy.You're like nine in Canada, right and
everybody, you know, everybody's tryingto figure out what differentiates them. We're
seeing places close like our friends atBluesprocket are closing. Oh no, So
(23:53):
you know, I'm seeing things likethat. I'm hearing from you know,
big facilities with tons of presses thatthey're not pressing it full capacity. So
you know what's going to happen absolutely, and and that's and that's the thing,
like I wonder, you know,it was definitely that thing because like
(24:15):
all of these plants were like reallytrying to increase their capacity and like really
like hustle to capitalize on all oflike all of this record hunger. But
just like we heard from a Nooktoo, like they have a crazy capacity
and she's like we're good, it'sfine, we've gotten we've got enough.
(24:37):
And I'm like good, because Iwant you guys to be around forever because
you're doing really incredible records. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, like,
how how crazy is that for thoseplants that expanded so exponentially during that
time. Maybe we should try andtalk to Chad and those guys from Viral
too and see, like, youknow, are people still in line to
(25:00):
get new pressing machines or the guysfrom Phoenix maybe and see like what that
looks like on their end, Like, are is there still a backlog of
people wanting machines? And you know, do people cancel orders because you know
they don't need them anymore? Like, well, I've seen people selling their
machines, like reaching out and sendingmass emails sort of being like, you
(25:22):
know, we're getting rid of ourmachines, we're shutting down. So yeah,
I mean we knew that that therewould be some shakeout from this,
but it is scary to see youknow where people will land. Yeah,
well, I mean, and that'sthe thing, Like, I mean,
I'm sorry, Jack White, butlike really, this is what this is
(25:45):
exactly what we were saying when weweren't in Nashville. This is exactly the
thing. We had enough capacity,we didn't need everybody to jump in the
pool all at the same time.Mm hmm. So now you've got what
what how many plants in Nashville,and like, how many plants in Nashville
are going to like see their wayout of this? Yeah? Are they
(26:07):
going to sustain? Are there?You know? Are they like what's going
to happen with all of that?Like nine plants in one place that are
all trying to staff from the samepool of people. But I mean,
but that's but that's the thing.So you've got an increased price of product,
and then you're going to start seeingyeah, plants like well, so
(26:27):
here's the question to you, Jen. So we had the downtimes, then
we had this like seventeen years ofit going like this. Then like the
last four of kind of gune likethis a little bit where all the plants
have like, now, okay,well we'll do one hundred. Okay,
we'll do this. Now we're changingall of our minimums. Do you think
(26:48):
that they're going to go backwards andstart changing the minimums again to offer one
hundred runs and stuff to try andfill gaps? I think some Well,
yeah, I think it depends onwell, I guess I'm already sort of
seeing some of that, Like SolidMerch got bought by A to Z And
who's the other one, Oh,it's the CD people disc makers. So
(27:14):
both of those entities are selling packagesfor one hundred run like bottom line pricing.
That's making it really hard to competewith From what I understand, the
jackets aren't they're like eighteen point,they're more like inner like inner euro jackets.
(27:36):
Some of those options don't include testpressings, so there's a lot of
variables within those that hopefully bands arelooking at. But it is it's hard
to compete for a record pressing plantthat has overhead and has employees to pay,
and that is a small business still, and isn't someone like an RP
or United that it's a massive operation. So hopefully you know some of the
(27:59):
people and survive it, but it'sdefinitely tougher than it was. Yeah,
well, what are you what areyou saying on your end? Like,
because I've been curious outside of thisconversation just how it has been, because
I know for a while your bookswere I'm crazy. Yeah yeah, And
I mean I don't know if it'sbecause like I moved back to Calgary and
(28:21):
I started doing production again, Soit took me out of the studio a
bunch, but I cut one thirdof the records that I did in twenty
twenty one across the board. Imean twenty twenty one, I could barely
breathe. Yeah, so there's that. And it was like the height of
everything. So I mean people werekind of like over a barrel because I
(28:45):
could get them their records, youknow, usually within like six weeks or
eight weeks or whatever, right dependingon the project. But yeah, now
I'm like, you know, it'sJanuary, and I probably have work into
to March. Maybe there's a coupleof projects that are like pending. But
(29:07):
yeah, I mean, if Ididn't have production to kind of puld me
up, like I don't, Idon't know. I don't know if I'm
like if like things are gonna getcrazier again. You know, I'm hoping
that obviously, I'm hoping that theywill because I like making records. It's
great. Uh, But yeah,I mean that's kind of the It's the
(29:32):
weird thing about doing what I dotoo. It's like I'm totally dependent on
need and want, and I meanmy prices can't kind of I think I'm
still the cheapest in North America andI'm like one of the only that are
accessible to humans. Because there's likeone of the guys that cuts in Montreal.
(29:56):
He just cuts for his own label, like he doesn't really do outside
work. I mean, I'd liketo talk to Tasha in Cardiff in Wales
since like how she's doing. Iknow she's expanded into doing tapes and she's
doing like direct discs and stuff doso, but don't I don't know how
(30:18):
her calendar is. I know thatthere's another cutter that just moved back to
the UK and like he's starting tofire up again. So yeah, I
mean I don't know, dude.Yeah, I mean it is going to
be interesting. I think, youknow, there are things that we'll keep
it going. How it will keepgoing, I think will be interesting.
(30:42):
There was an article with Dustin Blockerand you know, part of v R
M A and hand drawn. Yeah, and you know he was saying that
and we'll link this to that thefuture of vinyl depends on technological advancements,
cultural relevance, and expanded consumer engagementas the industry adapts to meet diverse consumer
(31:04):
needs. I think that's yeah.One hundred percent truly. Yeah, it's
I mean, and we're seeing alot more direct like direct to consumer kind
of things too, right, Likeit's only available on band camps, it's
only available in one hundred run.People are definitely selling a lot like hand
to hand direct from their website.So I mean they're definitely trying to manage
(31:27):
that price point, I think,because that's a lot of the feedback that's
coming back to artists is like Ican't afford this record, or like I'd
love to buy this and this,but it can't. Yeah, because like
you said, I mean, theprice of goods for us to make it
is so much, and we're allin that same boat. And so then
it's people trying to add their employeesand their overhead and all of that on
(31:51):
top of it. We really don'thave room to adjust prices much more.
You can't, ye and if youand if you're getting something that cheap,
then you have to ask yourself isthe product good? Where is it being
made? Is being made at GZ? Is it a good product? Yeah?
I mean I know that there's anew there's a new plant online in
China too. I think they're calledU s Z much like we talked about
(32:15):
with our episode about green vinyl,like we need to understand what goes into
the PVC molecule, what kind ofPVC molecule it is, what what what
is off gassing? You know,are you putting anybody at risk by being
exposed to the thing that's things thatare going on? You know, like,
(32:36):
are are we reaching that point whereit's like, okay, well we
need to have this sustainable version becauseyou know, it's it's going to be
eighty five dollars for a record now. And that's kind of the way that
it is to circle back to ourtopic though, like if you look,
if you just randomly reached behind youand pulled out one of your records and
(32:58):
you looked, what would you beable Like you wouldn't be able to replace
some of those though, Oh no, And that's the thing. So like,
yes, record prices are getting higherin the store, but also the
records that are being maintained in collectionsthat will never be made again. Like
(33:21):
we're not even talking about those kindof evaluations in these in these conversations,
like ye, there's there's records thatare you know that people really really really
really want, Like I just gotthe cry Baby soundtrack. I've wanted that
record since I was like nine yearsold when the movie came, and I
finally got it, which is likethank you discogs. But I find like
(33:45):
I finally tracked it down because itwas only made in Europe in nineteen ninety
one and that was it, andthat was it they I think they made
like two thousand of them and thatwas that. Goodbye. They're never going
to make that record again. Whywould they? I mean, but like
it was, yeah, it waslike ninety five dollars to get Yeah,
(34:06):
yeah, money will anyway. Idigress as always, I always am the
one to go off on a tangent. But I mean, technological advancements are
going to cost money, so youknow, and it's not just that's not
going to be put onto the consumeruntil the end point because somebody's got to
(34:27):
do the R and D, whichis why we don't have a new Lacker
formulation yep, which is why wedon't have any new lads. What point
do we innovate at and you willhave the courage and the pocket book do
that? Yeah, because that's likenot a winning game. You don't get
a lot back from that, especiallyif it doesn't work, right, So
(34:52):
I mean, but that's part ofwhat I want to do with these think
tank things, of course. Yes, so we'll see yeah, well and
that's thing. So like we don'tknow how many of these conversations are happening,
but you know, like, yeah, we're trying to make money in
order to facilitate that. I mean, are we the only ones, because
(35:12):
surely not. But I think we'redoing it for the greater good of Vinyl,
not for any self important reasons truly. But then you know, like
as Dustin said, too, culturalrelevance, Okay, so I mean we
have like the White House collection thatwe talked about cultural reference cool cultural relevance
as well little time capsule of socool historic presidents. But cultural elevance,
(35:37):
I mean, are we going tostart looking at other continents? You know,
there's like Jamaica used to have areally like boisterous record culture. I
mean, I know that they're tryingto get that going down there again.
(35:58):
And that's like super a great segueto some of the things that we want
to do and talk about on thepodcast this year is we I don't remember
what brought it up, but therewas something that we were talking about or
something that we posted, and awoman that owns a record store in India
was like, I found it sointeresting what you all were saying, because
(36:20):
it's completely different here. Yeah,and so we were like, well,
let's you talk to her. Yeyeah, And now suit and Suitcase Records
opened up in Australia, so I'mgoing to try to talk to her.
But yeah, like, what isit? What's cultural relevance wherever these people
are and how is it different inNorth America? Be really interesting? Well,
(36:45):
and is it like is it likea historical cultural romans because like Jamaica
dub reggae making dub plates, youknow, cut records and like shipping them
all over the world. Like oneof the guys that owns the record store
that I work at, he usedto like call up a pressing plant in
(37:06):
Jamaica and they would like make himfifty and then because he's got like really
banging REDDA collection and he was homieswith those guys. Nice. And I
don't know what is happening with recordcutting or pressing in Jamaica, but I
mean, if anybody has any leadson that, we would love to know.
Yeah, we'd love to know,not only because we need a vacation,
(37:29):
Yeah, like Jen and Robin needto go to Jamaica to check out
to check out records specifically, rightright, clearly, yes, but you
know it, we were very veryinterested to see how our culture and how
(37:50):
our perception of these tiny plastic discschanges from continent to continent and hemisphere to
hemisphere. For sure. I'm superinterested to talk to everybody from India and
people in Australia to understand those things. Absolutely. I mean you've chatted with
the guys from the Vinyl Guide anddidn't we have any insight for Australia,
(38:15):
not specifically to that that we talkedabout, but I am very interested to
know and also hopefully Europe. Youknow, with Harlem Final Festival, we
talked to a Nook as you mentionedearlier, Yeah, and that event went
off really great. They had anestimated fifteen thousand visitors thirty locations over three
(38:36):
days. So they're going to doit again this year. Hopefully we'll be
there. Hopefully we'll be able toyeah, learn more about how things are
going over there. Yeah, becauseI mean with the as we talked about
with both Green Vinyl and a Nook, like the way that the EU focuses
on manufacturing and the environment specifically,Like they're the ones that are leading the
(39:01):
technical technological revolution for sure in thesespaces specifically. But I mean so that
that's like those are kind of interestingtakeaways as well, being that we're both
in nations that are driven by oiland gas. Still. So yeah,
yeah, so some some fun womenand vinyl things. Oh yeah, to
(39:25):
give you a sneak peek into,I guess we'll finally announce that the book
is coming out. We wrote abook. Jen went full crazy and decided
to do a book. Yeah,yeah, full crazy serious. That's a
massive undertaking though, Like I canhear the applause from everyone already even without
(39:50):
seeing it. Congratulations, thank you, thank you so with your incredible right
hand on that. And yes,I done it without Amanda for sure.
Amanda McCabe shout out, used todo our Amanda facts. Hopefully we can
get her to do some more ofthose. And uh so it'll be called
(40:13):
Women in Vinyl the Art of MakingVinyl. We are breaking down different jobs
within the industry, giving a littleeducation on them, and then highlighting women
working in those jobs. So Robin'sin there, jets in there. You'll
see some familiar faces for sure,like an analog version of the podcast on
your coffee table. That's true.You don't even have to hear my stupid
(40:35):
jokes. You can just read thebook. It looks like that'll be out
in April now, so it's beforerecords today. So hey, Tim,
yep, you can find us atconferences. We'll be at making vinyl probably
music biz. Yeah, so makingvinyl this year is June four or five,
(40:55):
five, five, five or fivesix. I mean we'll probably be
there like the day before, inthe day after something like that, like
we generally try and do. It'sin Nashville this year, like it was
last year, no year before,year before. Yes, yeah, so
(41:21):
going back to Nashi, which iscool. I like Nashville, had a
great time there. We're gonna tryand be at music biz again too,
which is in May again, Ibelieve, also in Nashville. Also in
Nashville. We might as well justgo there for the summer. Very much
(41:43):
from Nashville, totally affordable. It'llbe great. I've heard that there's one
or two record pressing plants there.Maybe we could get jobs, just a
couple along with the book as acompanion piece. We're going to try to
do some info sessions, so beon the lookout for those where you will
(42:05):
get to talk to some of thepeople in the book or doing that job.
And then we're finally going to tryto roll out some sort of a
membership friends of women in Vinyl.Robin has some great ideas and the board
is all working on that. Sokeep an eye out for some cool stuff
because we're changing the podcast a littlebit in the way that we give everything
(42:27):
away for free. We'll still getcool free stuff, just we got to
keep the lights on. We havediscussed everything costs money now and a lot
more money than it used to cost. So in that vein, we want
to give you more and in returnwe would like to get a little bit
and that is great because that allowsus to do more. Or are you
(42:50):
which is great? I love youand we want you to have everything.
Yeah, and ways to participate.We'll leave you on this note. Anonymous
Stories recommend someone you're not anonymous,tell us, tell us your things,
live your truth. I mean,people pay attention to them. We ruffled
(43:13):
some feathers earlier this year. Thelink to the form, which is completely
anonymous, is on our website underour resources. You can also email us
info at womenivinyl dot com to recommendsomeone check out our merch. Yeah,
buy merch because it's great. Yeah, we have a new shirt kind of
flew under the radar. It's reallycool. Has a twelve hundred on the
(43:35):
back. Donate, that's always cool. We still have a Patreon too,
right, yep, still have aPatreon. Yeah, so you can just
you know, pay us instead ofdonating. You could just pay us too,
which's great. All of that moneythat you decide to benevolently give us
helps to pay for the website,helps to pay for recording things like the
(44:00):
zoom calls and like all of theinfrastructure that it costs to do all these
crazy things that we're doing because wemake records. We're not rich. Yeah,
those record prices do not go togen and I and has discussed earlier.
I'm the cheapest LA cutter in NorthAmerica. Like, you can book
(44:21):
me to make your records, whichis great. But you know, I
like talking about records with Jen aswell. And if we can get Jen
to just do we have vital stuff, that would be the best. She's
she directs this whole cruise ship,and the possibilities are endless. Truly,
(44:44):
with everyone's help. We have anincredible board, we have an incredible adjunct
board, advisory board. Everybody thathas joined this party in the last few
years is all incredible. So yeah, always costs nothing but means a whole
lot. You can leave us areview of this podcast because you know that
(45:06):
you love it, and we've seenyour reviews and I had a little cry
when I read some the other day. I didn't know that that you loved
us that much, and it isit's nice to know that the things that
we're doing are making a difference forpeople. And we really do listen to
you. I mean, Robin andI were like, what do people want
to hear? What's so? Yeah, so tell us yeah, yeah,
(45:30):
because we can. We can talkall day and we're happy to you give
this topic and I will find away to so journ away from it and
the first correct is back to it. But yeah, you let us know
what you want. From twenty twentyfour, we're kicking around some ideas of
doing like dropping some mini episodes,maybe just some little factoid episodes. Let
(45:54):
us know what you think about that. Let us know if you want to
talk to Why should we talk toyou? Who are you, where do
you live? What? What canyou bring to the podcast because we do
want to hear from you. Wewant to know what your take on records
is. Awesome. Record Storre Dayis on April twentieth for twenty twenty four.
(46:19):
Mark them calendars and Thewomenvile dot comwebsite to check out where you can
buy records from lady owned record storesin your neighborhood. Yes, they might
not be one of the seventy two, but you know there for us so
exactly. We'll give them your money. Yeah, and give some to us
(46:40):
too. And thanks for listening againthat yeah forty seven? Whoa I know?
Three years in? All right?Cool? Thanks you guys, Thanks
team, We love you guys.We'll see you get another couple of weeks.
(47:00):
Yep, bye ye, thanks forlistening. Don't forget to like,
subscribe and leave us a review onyour favorite podcast platform. Join the conversation
on social media at Women in Vinyl. We want to hear from you.
Shoot us a message for topics youwant to hear, feedback and more to
info at Womeninvinyl dot com. Hugeshout out and thank you for all our
(47:23):
supporters, affiliates and sponsors like MarshallHeadphones. Visit our website Women Invinyl dot
com for ways to get involved,and you can always contribute to the education,
demastification and diversification of the vinyl industryby donating at Women Invinyl dot com
slash donate. See you next time. This episode has been brought to you
(47:46):
by Women in Vinyl and Red SpadeRecords. Thank you for listening. Please
remember to subscribe, and you canalways contact us directly by visiting www dot
com. Women in Vinyl dot com
Welcome to the Women in Vinyl Podcastwith Jen Dugenie, founder of Women in
Vinyl, and contributor Robin Raymond.This podcast facilitates conversations with those working in
the vinyl record industry to educate,demystify, and diversify the vinyl community.
(00:36):
You look me up Undah It sellme like you know. I'm not afraid
to cry, not afraid. Kids, look me at Bundah sell me what
you not afraid to charm and notafraid. But in the mid night I
(01:03):
come here, your voice singing love, you have it Joy. Welcome back
to the Women in Vinyl Podcast,Episode forty seven. You just heard Whistleblow
by New York City alt pop artistRachel Sage off her new album The Other
Side. Rachel has toured with thelikes of Ani DiFranco, Sarah McLaughlin and
more. You can find the vinylcopy of the Other Side at Rachelsage dot
(01:27):
bandcamp dot com. New Year,New full episode. Join Robin and I
as we spill the tea about someoverarching topics that arose end of the year,
from vinyl prices to an oversaturated marketand the upheaval over illuminates reporting.
We also talk about some exciting thingscoming up. So we hope to see
and hear from you more this year. Enjoy well seven really forty seven,
(01:53):
episode forty seven, We're back,come on, New Year. Just given
it to you all the time,almost almost the Big of five. Oh,
I know, Commitment twenty four,twenty twenty four. Also when do
we sad this thing? Twenty one, twenty two, twenty one. So
(02:19):
it was like right around it wasstill like pandemic times yeah, which is
crazy. Yeah, yeah, becausesome of our episodes were like pandemic and
now are a year long and nowwe're like, is the market oversaturated?
We can't keep up? We needmore stuff? Oh god, we need
(02:40):
more stuff. Now we have toomany things. But it's so true though,
it's so true. I mean,yeah, we don't have enough paper
products. There's not enough plastic becauseeverybody's making face shields, and now here
(03:00):
we are. Yeah, well maybemaybe we're a pretty second pandemic. Who
knows. What's amen. So let'sget into some of the tea. Yeah
so much. Twenty thirty three wasa hot year for things, Yes,
(03:21):
lots of things. Wow, notonly the hottest year on record, I
mean yeah, that's double on chundertoo. But yeah, it was a
spicy year, both in the newson the turntables and just in the general
climate. So that was nice.We should do you think we should start
with the big thing that's been inthe news everywhere with Illuminate. Wow,
(03:46):
let's do it. Let's talk aboutIlluminate, because I mean, I loved
up to this point, I haveloved referencing. I feel like talked about
we love our Tuesday takeaways. Imean, thing had some they had some
good data all the time, andI was like, oh really, I
mean the number of times that Idropped the only fifty percent of the buying
(04:09):
population has a turntable, Like Ishould get paid for that? Where are
my royalties? But now, likeI'll like, I'll let you preface this
because I'm still a little gobsmacked byit, to be honest. Yeah,
I mean, I'm not sure ifpeople saw or if it was too like
(04:29):
working in the industry specific, butrecently they stopped weighing in sales from record
stores, and so Record Store Day, the Vinyl Alliance and Vinyl Record Manufacturers
Association all joined up to say thatyou know, that wasn't right, and
it was misrepresenting what we were doing, and it was going to be a
(04:53):
bad thing for Vinyl and Illuminate.It was basically like, Eh, we
don't carry it. This is easier. I mean it's crazy too, because
like the reporting that they used todo was like pretty convoluted anyway, Like
if you had one checkbox not checkedappropriately, then they would not honor your
(05:15):
reportings anyway. So I mean it'sit's interesting to I mean this parkins back
to the barcode and why we startedputting barcodes on things because nobody knew who
was selling what and where it wasselling, and that was like back in
the heyday of like media sales.Yeah, the bar code. I'm just
(05:41):
I'm going to google this. I'mnot even I'm not even gonna be precious
about it and try and pretend thatI know this off the top of my
head, because I don't. Yeah, at what point in your collection and
when you're discogsing, do barcodes appearexactly? Yeah, because it says in
some of the research we were doing, they'd previously boosted numbers, yeah,
(06:02):
from one reporting store to offset thetransaction of a non reporting store, but
now they're only counting sales from seventytwo record stores out of over fifteen hundred,
which is crazy. Yeah, andthat's only in the States too,
so like it doesn't matter, Like, I mean, I know that America
(06:23):
is the center of the universe obviouslyfor everyone, but like it's interesting to
know that they don't have anything inplace for any other country too, right,
Yeah, I mean when you thinkabout seventy two stores, I mean
that's we probably have more than thatin our women owned list at this point.
Absolutely. Yeah. They started puttingbarcodes on records in nineteen eighty three,
(06:49):
specifically on forty fives CBS did that, but I mean they started to
do that because they needed to,yeah, try and figure out what was
actually like what the actual number onerecord in America was because of I mean
royalties specifically, but that's exactly it. So it was like, you know,
(07:13):
if people were misrepresenting things because oflet's say, Paola, oh weird,
I mean your research on that one, because it's also fascinating, but
you know it are we kind ofgoing back to that, Like what I
don't I just don't understand what they'regoing to gain by that, because every
single record store, I mean especiallyup here, like we have all we
(07:36):
have our own like little niches.H. So I mean like, yeah,
it's a lot more jazz records thananother record store in Calgary. But
so we were if we were likethe one of the seventy two and like
how did they pick those seventy two? Yeah, And it's just it's weird
to me. It kind of goesback to something similar that I feel about
(07:59):
women in vinyl is like a lotof people are ignoring physical media and the
people that are involved in it.And so it's like once again, Okay,
great for Taylor Swift, Great forall these people that are selling millions
and millions of records, but likewhat about all the people making them?
We don't have anything to track ifthere's nobody making them and selling them and
part of this ecosystem. So Ithink it is kind of like tone deaf,
(08:22):
no pun intended to like really youknow, yeah, So I mean
it seems, yeah, it seemsa bit backwards to look at something that
is growing or has been growing overseventeen years exponentially mm hmm, just like
cut its legs out from underneath itwhen we know that we're selling I mean,
(08:46):
just again, shout out to ourbud, Billy Fields. Billy Fields
does the numbers every single week.Why didn't they ask Billy what about about
selling? Like Billy would know,well, he's part of these organizations too,
like that. That's probably yeah,I mean he probably was, Like
(09:07):
I can imagine him just like twistinghis mustache, swinging around in his chair,
being like this is ill advised andhere's how and here's what the actual
numbers are. So, I meanfor somebody that actually like looks at those
numbers week to week to week,I'm sure that's like a big old slap
in his face too, which iscrazy. Yeah. And up until recently,
(09:30):
you know, everybody was asking thatthey start tracking more stores and so
it sounds like Street Pulse, whichI don't know much about, but them
and Record Store Today have teamed upto launch a weekly indie vinyl sales chart
and they are going to track pointof sale data from independent retailers. Currently
(09:50):
two hundred plus with plenty more onthe way. The Vinyl fifty published by
Hits Empowered by Streets. Yeah,we'll see, man, I mean,
it definitely seems like they would bemore tapped in. Yeah, yeah,
I'm reading this gold Mine magazine thingagain, just to yeah, try and
(10:11):
wrap my head around it. It'scrazy though. It just seems like they
are just ignoring the industry on thehighest level. Yeah. There was a
quote from one of these articles thatsaid, among the stores now reporting Atlanta's
beloved Criminal Records owner Eric Levin isalso the founder of the Alliance of Independent
(10:35):
Media Stores, co founder of RecordStore Day. My store has been a
proud sound scan supporter since nineteen ninetyone. We treated it like a badge
of honor. When Illuminate took overand began enforcing new rules and regulations on
us, our relationship with them wasover. Yeah, but we'll link these
articles in the show notes so thateverybody can read it. You guys can
(11:00):
tell us what you think about it. Yeah, I mean, do you
care listeners dear listeners selling because Imean, as just as this is Jena
saying, like, just as acareer path. Yeah, we want to
make sure the records are still sellingand that we all still have jobs.
But I mean, well, justas like somebody that purchases new vinyl for
(11:22):
the store. I mean, I'vebeen seeing a lot of titles that are
like direct to consumers from the artistsand they're they're giving them like their extra
quantity to their label to sell afterlike the tour is done too. So
I mean, yeah, I justI want to know what the criteria are.
I want to know who decided whothese seventy two stores are. I
(11:46):
want to know where these seventy twostores are, Yeah, because that just
seems like another kind of like weirdlittle dare I say it, boys Club?
Yeah? What size are the stores? Yeah? That might yeah,
that might be problematic. Yeah,like we're I mean, I wonder if
dear Amanda Schutzman would know anything aboutthese criterion criteria. But yeah, there's
(12:13):
just there's so many questions. There'sso many questions. Yeah, some of
the other things that I think oneof them that ties into this, and
we've sort of talked about it before, but is you know, the rising
price of final Every day, everysaying Gulf Day in the record store,
I get asked this question. Imean, you know, it's one of
those things where, yeah, likeI remember when you could go to a
(12:35):
record store, you know, havefifty bucks walk out with more than one
record. Nowadays not so much.What are your thoughts being in a shop.
I tell people that it is sillyfor them to expect records to not
(12:58):
appreciate in value given the current economicstate. And also if you look at
just regular old inflation, I mean, why would records be the one thing
that is hermetically sealed in a timecapsule for all of time? For price
wise, Like you go back tonineteen seventy three and you're buying a record
(13:20):
and what maybe a double album wasthirty dollars maybe Okay, Well, when
you adjust for inflation and all ofthose things, like what would that record
be probably sixty or seventy dollars.Guess what, It's probably underpriced. So
I mean really like lettuce is likenine dollars, and like there's there's probably
(13:46):
fifteen people involved in making Lettuce,So why would a record be any different
than that when there's you know,twenty seven or thirty people that are involved
in that. Like, why isit always an Like I don't know if
this is just because of the musicbusiness in general and how musicians and everybody
(14:11):
associated with the music business, becauseI mean most of us all came from
being in some sort of musical endeavor. But you are always used to playing
for free and you were always usedto being undervalued because there's no hope of
a union ever. And I mean, I don't know if it goes back
to like the first time that theyput a radio in a car and that
(14:33):
you made music free, and thuspeople thought that they were entitled to it
at that point, you know,but like when we made it, when
when we started streaming music, wemade it, we devalued it immediately.
Any any musician knows that, LikeSpotify's craziness is just like adds to all
(14:54):
of that as well. But like, what what did they what did these
people think that records should be pricedat? Like we're now in a luxury
item environment. Yeah, so Imean unless you're just searching for used records,
which I mean is great for usbecause we have a huge used selection
(15:16):
at record Land comes with, butthat's not the case for every single record
store. Some only do new vinyland that's great, but like yeah,
sometimes yeah, like sometimes the markupsare substantial, but they kind of have
to be because nobody is going towork in that record store for nothing.
(15:41):
Yeah, I'd like, I mean, are you seeing any decline or people
with resistance to pay it? Likeor is it just something that they're complaining
about. I mean, there's definitelylike a hey, can you do all
the math for me? And thenthey decide at the counter like which ones
they might put back. You know, they they hum and hob or some
(16:04):
something sometimes or you know, sometimesI'll be like, oh, well you
have like these five records. Youcould get this box set and have them
all together for a little bit cheaper, and they're like, oh, that's
great, And I'm like, yeah, so there's like there's potentials for that,
but that's just because I know theinventory really well. But I mean
it's there's also the like combating discogstoo, because you know someone's like,
(16:29):
oh, I can get that forfifteen dollars on the internet, and I'm
like, well, then go doit. Whatever. What does your oyster
baby like, I'm not I didn't. I didn't pull you into the store
and like thrust this record in yourhand. You can do whatever you want.
But yeah, I don't know.I mean, it's I don't want
to say that it's a certain type, gender, age of person that generally
(16:56):
has these comments and they're all kindof linked in a certain way. Well
that might be the kind of interestingthing, right, Like because I think
with rising costs, you think,well, maybe that'll create a barrier entry
for younger people. But that isn'tthe demographic that we're alluding to. So
like the kids are coming in andbuying records, yeah, and CDs and
(17:22):
tapes, and I mean they're inthe used records like nobody's business. It's
awesome. I mean sometimes they askme for records that like we have no
prayer of getting because they're all fromJapan, and I'm like, how are
you finding out about these records?What is happening? But yeah, I
mean sometimes it's just a point ofhaving the conversation to educate them a little
(17:45):
bit much why Women in Vinyl existsmuch why this podcast exists to just kind
of pull back the curtain on someof these things to be like yo,
like records are cheap. Nothing ischeap now. Rent costs eighty five percent
of your paycheck, so like whywould records be any different? Yeah,
(18:07):
just because it's a bunch of peoplethat like are doing that, like never
work a day in your life ifyou do what you love, Like is
that what it is? Like thesepeople are just like living off of the
exposure that they get, Like no, dude, I don't know. I
do what I love, and Idefinitely work. I mean, you work
twenty two hours a day, honey, So I definitely am there with you.
(18:32):
You Yeah, you too. Ithink interestingly like some of the stats
on this, so that people kindof know what we're talking about. By
twenty twenty five, Finals projected tohit a seven percent annual growth rate,
with the global sales nearing one hundredand twenty million and a value of three
point nine billion. The growth ispropelled by hybrid retail pricing artists inclination towards
(18:56):
Final evident with increasing gen Z buyermographic And that's the thing. I mean,
it's the limited editions. I mean, and it's like a higher price
point. I mean, Travis Scottjust hit one million dollars in merch sales
in one night at one show.So I mean, is it the record
(19:21):
that's the problem, or I meanis it a sixty five dollars T shirt
or a seventy dollars T shirt?I mean I talk about I don't know
about absolutely. I mean, yeah, like there's which I appreciate, which
I appreciate the cure always, butespecially for you know, we went to
their show. It was like wewere back in the nineties. Get a
(19:42):
shirt for twenty bucks. And thenI go to see other bands that I
love and I'm paying sixty five dollarsfor a T shirt eighty five dollars for
sweater, and I'm just like,you know, it's too much for me.
So well, And I mean that'sthe thing, like when people ask
me about like the label and stuff, and I'm just like, well,
(20:03):
the only way that artists make moneynow are through physical media and touring,
and that's it. But merch ratessustain independent venues in some cases, especially
with the rising tide of people beingsober, and that's an uncomfortable position for
people in bars to have where thevenue only opens for the bands to play.
(20:30):
Where are they getting their money from, Because it's not always the bar
that's putting on the show or thevenue that's putting on the show. Sometimes
it's a promoter that's renting at thevenue and paying the band and paying you
know, some sort of a rentsituation. But that's not always equitable for
the bar or for the club orthe venue, right, So sometimes they
count on that merch rate. Soyeah, bands will mark up T shirts
(20:55):
to offset the merch rate. AndI mean we're talking like ten percent times
twenty percent on soft goods. Imean I always raise back and like holler
back at people when they're charging ratelike hard goods, which is like record
CDs like that kind of stuff,because I'm like, we definitely had nothing
to do with this band's music,So don't take anybody off of that.
(21:17):
That's weird. Yeah, So thatthat's usually a fight that I win.
But and I think something interesting,you know that you said about supporting local
venues is I almost think and we'llget into this topic in a minute,
but like almost support your local recordpressing plan as well, I mean,
or your Lathe cutter. I meanI think, you know, again,
(21:37):
we'll talk about what that landscape lookslike. But we're paying so much for
labels on different continents and coasts toimport and export final like flying them to
distributors or you know, even shippingjust on a boat is expensive. So
you know, I think the morepeople can kind of share. Yeah,
(22:00):
I'm a European label, but Ihave a US pressing plant. Do my
US portion, and then the gasand the transportation and the shipping on that
goes to a US distribution center.Now I've saved hundreds of dollars, maybe
that price per unit of the vinylisn't as much well, And I mean
and that's like a really global wayof thinking about it too. And I
(22:21):
mean now that we have more capacity, yeah, globally that might be a
better solution for some labels and stuff. But I know, like being one
of the aforementioned lathe cut people,you know, people like get a quote
from a pressing plant and then they'llget a quote for me, and then
they'll sit on that and then they'llbe like, oh, well can They'll
(22:41):
inevitably come back to me and say, well, this plant and blah can
do it for this much. Canyou match this price? And I'm like,
well no, because I can't makea record every twenty two seconds.
I don't know if anybody else's productionschedule has been affected in the ways that
mine have, since production times havecome way way down now because of increased
(23:06):
capacity and everybody kind of catching upand stuff too. So well, yeah,
maybe and maybe we like kind ofjust jump into that, like I
would be interested to know, becauseI know with pressing I haven't had to
hustle like I have recently, sincetwenty eighteen, it's definitely more of chase
him down. And I know,you know, during the pandemic, you
(23:30):
know, vinyl sales capacity was verylimited. But since then, I mean,
we have what over one hundred andsixty pressing plants or something like that
in the US. It's crazy.You're like nine in Canada, right and
everybody, you know, everybody's tryingto figure out what differentiates them. We're
seeing places close like our friends atBluesprocket are closing. Oh no, So
(23:53):
you know, I'm seeing things likethat. I'm hearing from you know,
big facilities with tons of presses thatthey're not pressing it full capacity. So
you know what's going to happen absolutely, and and that's and that's the thing,
like I wonder, you know,it was definitely that thing because like
(24:15):
all of these plants were like reallytrying to increase their capacity and like really
like hustle to capitalize on all oflike all of this record hunger. But
just like we heard from a Nooktoo, like they have a crazy capacity
and she's like we're good, it'sfine, we've gotten we've got enough.
(24:37):
And I'm like good, because Iwant you guys to be around forever because
you're doing really incredible records. Yeah, but yeah, I mean, like,
how how crazy is that for thoseplants that expanded so exponentially during that
time. Maybe we should try andtalk to Chad and those guys from Viral
too and see, like, youknow, are people still in line to
(25:00):
get new pressing machines or the guysfrom Phoenix maybe and see like what that
looks like on their end, Like, are is there still a backlog of
people wanting machines? And you know, do people cancel orders because you know
they don't need them anymore? Like, well, I've seen people selling their
machines, like reaching out and sendingmass emails sort of being like, you
(25:22):
know, we're getting rid of ourmachines, we're shutting down. So yeah,
I mean we knew that that therewould be some shakeout from this,
but it is scary to see youknow where people will land. Yeah,
well, I mean, and that'sthe thing, Like, I mean,
I'm sorry, Jack White, butlike really, this is what this is
(25:45):
exactly what we were saying when weweren't in Nashville. This is exactly the
thing. We had enough capacity,we didn't need everybody to jump in the
pool all at the same time.Mm hmm. So now you've got what
what how many plants in Nashville,and like, how many plants in Nashville
are going to like see their wayout of this? Yeah? Are they
(26:07):
going to sustain? Are there?You know? Are they like what's going
to happen with all of that?Like nine plants in one place that are
all trying to staff from the samepool of people. But I mean,
but that's but that's the thing.So you've got an increased price of product,
and then you're going to start seeingyeah, plants like well, so
(26:27):
here's the question to you, Jen. So we had the downtimes, then
we had this like seventeen years ofit going like this. Then like the
last four of kind of gune likethis a little bit where all the plants
have like, now, okay,well we'll do one hundred. Okay,
we'll do this. Now we're changingall of our minimums. Do you think
(26:48):
that they're going to go backwards andstart changing the minimums again to offer one
hundred runs and stuff to try andfill gaps? I think some Well,
yeah, I think it depends onwell, I guess I'm already sort of
seeing some of that, Like SolidMerch got bought by A to Z And
who's the other one, Oh,it's the CD people disc makers. So
(27:14):
both of those entities are selling packagesfor one hundred run like bottom line pricing.
That's making it really hard to competewith From what I understand, the
jackets aren't they're like eighteen point,they're more like inner like inner euro jackets.
(27:36):
Some of those options don't include testpressings, so there's a lot of
variables within those that hopefully bands arelooking at. But it is it's hard
to compete for a record pressing plantthat has overhead and has employees to pay,
and that is a small business still, and isn't someone like an RP
or United that it's a massive operation. So hopefully you know some of the
(27:59):
people and survive it, but it'sdefinitely tougher than it was. Yeah,
well, what are you what areyou saying on your end? Like,
because I've been curious outside of thisconversation just how it has been, because
I know for a while your bookswere I'm crazy. Yeah yeah, And
I mean I don't know if it'sbecause like I moved back to Calgary and
(28:21):
I started doing production again, Soit took me out of the studio a
bunch, but I cut one thirdof the records that I did in twenty
twenty one across the board. Imean twenty twenty one, I could barely
breathe. Yeah, so there's that. And it was like the height of
everything. So I mean people werekind of like over a barrel because I
(28:45):
could get them their records, youknow, usually within like six weeks or
eight weeks or whatever, right dependingon the project. But yeah, now
I'm like, you know, it'sJanuary, and I probably have work into
to March. Maybe there's a coupleof projects that are like pending. But
(29:07):
yeah, I mean, if Ididn't have production to kind of puld me
up, like I don't, Idon't know. I don't know if I'm
like if like things are gonna getcrazier again. You know, I'm hoping
that obviously, I'm hoping that theywill because I like making records. It's
great. Uh, But yeah,I mean that's kind of the It's the
(29:32):
weird thing about doing what I dotoo. It's like I'm totally dependent on
need and want, and I meanmy prices can't kind of I think I'm
still the cheapest in North America andI'm like one of the only that are
accessible to humans. Because there's likeone of the guys that cuts in Montreal.
(29:56):
He just cuts for his own label, like he doesn't really do outside
work. I mean, I'd liketo talk to Tasha in Cardiff in Wales
since like how she's doing. Iknow she's expanded into doing tapes and she's
doing like direct discs and stuff doso, but don't I don't know how
(30:18):
her calendar is. I know thatthere's another cutter that just moved back to
the UK and like he's starting tofire up again. So yeah, I
mean I don't know, dude.Yeah, I mean it is going to
be interesting. I think, youknow, there are things that we'll keep
it going. How it will keepgoing, I think will be interesting.
(30:42):
There was an article with Dustin Blockerand you know, part of v R
M A and hand drawn. Yeah, and you know he was saying that
and we'll link this to that thefuture of vinyl depends on technological advancements,
cultural relevance, and expanded consumer engagementas the industry adapts to meet diverse consumer
(31:04):
needs. I think that's yeah.One hundred percent truly. Yeah, it's
I mean, and we're seeing alot more direct like direct to consumer kind
of things too, right, Likeit's only available on band camps, it's
only available in one hundred run.People are definitely selling a lot like hand
to hand direct from their website.So I mean they're definitely trying to manage
(31:27):
that price point, I think,because that's a lot of the feedback that's
coming back to artists is like Ican't afford this record, or like I'd
love to buy this and this,but it can't. Yeah, because like
you said, I mean, theprice of goods for us to make it
is so much, and we're allin that same boat. And so then
it's people trying to add their employeesand their overhead and all of that on
(31:51):
top of it. We really don'thave room to adjust prices much more.
You can't, ye and if youand if you're getting something that cheap,
then you have to ask yourself isthe product good? Where is it being
made? Is being made at GZ? Is it a good product? Yeah?
I mean I know that there's anew there's a new plant online in
China too. I think they're calledU s Z much like we talked about
(32:15):
with our episode about green vinyl,like we need to understand what goes into
the PVC molecule, what kind ofPVC molecule it is, what what what
is off gassing? You know,are you putting anybody at risk by being
exposed to the thing that's things thatare going on? You know, like,
(32:36):
are are we reaching that point whereit's like, okay, well we
need to have this sustainable version becauseyou know, it's it's going to be
eighty five dollars for a record now. And that's kind of the way that
it is to circle back to ourtopic though, like if you look,
if you just randomly reached behind youand pulled out one of your records and
(32:58):
you looked, what would you beable Like you wouldn't be able to replace
some of those though, Oh no, And that's the thing. So like,
yes, record prices are getting higherin the store, but also the
records that are being maintained in collectionsthat will never be made again. Like
(33:21):
we're not even talking about those kindof evaluations in these in these conversations,
like ye, there's there's records thatare you know that people really really really
really want, Like I just gotthe cry Baby soundtrack. I've wanted that
record since I was like nine yearsold when the movie came, and I
finally got it, which is likethank you discogs. But I find like
(33:45):
I finally tracked it down because itwas only made in Europe in nineteen ninety
one and that was it, andthat was it they I think they made
like two thousand of them and thatwas that. Goodbye. They're never going
to make that record again. Whywould they? I mean, but like
it was, yeah, it waslike ninety five dollars to get Yeah,
(34:06):
yeah, money will anyway. Idigress as always, I always am the
one to go off on a tangent. But I mean, technological advancements are
going to cost money, so youknow, and it's not just that's not
going to be put onto the consumeruntil the end point because somebody's got to
(34:27):
do the R and D, whichis why we don't have a new Lacker
formulation yep, which is why wedon't have any new lads. What point
do we innovate at and you willhave the courage and the pocket book do
that? Yeah, because that's likenot a winning game. You don't get
a lot back from that, especiallyif it doesn't work, right, So
(34:52):
I mean, but that's part ofwhat I want to do with these think
tank things, of course. Yes, so we'll see yeah, well and
that's thing. So like we don'tknow how many of these conversations are happening,
but you know, like, yeah, we're trying to make money in
order to facilitate that. I mean, are we the only ones, because
(35:12):
surely not. But I think we'redoing it for the greater good of Vinyl,
not for any self important reasons truly. But then you know, like
as Dustin said, too, culturalrelevance, Okay, so I mean we
have like the White House collection thatwe talked about cultural reference cool cultural relevance
as well little time capsule of socool historic presidents. But cultural elevance,
(35:37):
I mean, are we going tostart looking at other continents? You know,
there's like Jamaica used to have areally like boisterous record culture. I
mean, I know that they're tryingto get that going down there again.
(35:58):
And that's like super a great segueto some of the things that we want
to do and talk about on thepodcast this year is we I don't remember
what brought it up, but therewas something that we were talking about or
something that we posted, and awoman that owns a record store in India
was like, I found it sointeresting what you all were saying, because
(36:20):
it's completely different here. Yeah,and so we were like, well,
let's you talk to her. Yeyeah, And now suit and Suitcase Records
opened up in Australia, so I'mgoing to try to talk to her.
But yeah, like, what isit? What's cultural relevance wherever these people
are and how is it different inNorth America? Be really interesting? Well,
(36:45):
and is it like is it likea historical cultural romans because like Jamaica
dub reggae making dub plates, youknow, cut records and like shipping them
all over the world. Like oneof the guys that owns the record store
that I work at, he usedto like call up a pressing plant in
(37:06):
Jamaica and they would like make himfifty and then because he's got like really
banging REDDA collection and he was homieswith those guys. Nice. And I
don't know what is happening with recordcutting or pressing in Jamaica, but I
mean, if anybody has any leadson that, we would love to know.
Yeah, we'd love to know,not only because we need a vacation,
(37:29):
Yeah, like Jen and Robin needto go to Jamaica to check out
to check out records specifically, rightright, clearly, yes, but you
know it, we were very veryinterested to see how our culture and how
(37:50):
our perception of these tiny plastic discschanges from continent to continent and hemisphere to
hemisphere. For sure. I'm superinterested to talk to everybody from India and
people in Australia to understand those things. Absolutely. I mean you've chatted with
the guys from the Vinyl Guide anddidn't we have any insight for Australia,
(38:15):
not specifically to that that we talkedabout, but I am very interested to
know and also hopefully Europe. Youknow, with Harlem Final Festival, we
talked to a Nook as you mentionedearlier, Yeah, and that event went
off really great. They had anestimated fifteen thousand visitors thirty locations over three
(38:36):
days. So they're going to doit again this year. Hopefully we'll be
there. Hopefully we'll be able toyeah, learn more about how things are
going over there. Yeah, becauseI mean with the as we talked about
with both Green Vinyl and a Nook, like the way that the EU focuses
on manufacturing and the environment specifically,Like they're the ones that are leading the
(39:01):
technical technological revolution for sure in thesespaces specifically. But I mean so that
that's like those are kind of interestingtakeaways as well, being that we're both
in nations that are driven by oiland gas. Still. So yeah,
yeah, so some some fun womenand vinyl things. Oh yeah, to
(39:25):
give you a sneak peek into,I guess we'll finally announce that the book
is coming out. We wrote abook. Jen went full crazy and decided
to do a book. Yeah,yeah, full crazy serious. That's a
massive undertaking though, Like I canhear the applause from everyone already even without
(39:50):
seeing it. Congratulations, thank you, thank you so with your incredible right
hand on that. And yes,I done it without Amanda for sure.
Amanda McCabe shout out, used todo our Amanda facts. Hopefully we can
get her to do some more ofthose. And uh so it'll be called
(40:13):
Women in Vinyl the Art of MakingVinyl. We are breaking down different jobs
within the industry, giving a littleeducation on them, and then highlighting women
working in those jobs. So Robin'sin there, jets in there. You'll
see some familiar faces for sure,like an analog version of the podcast on
your coffee table. That's true.You don't even have to hear my stupid
(40:35):
jokes. You can just read thebook. It looks like that'll be out
in April now, so it's beforerecords today. So hey, Tim,
yep, you can find us atconferences. We'll be at making vinyl probably
music biz. Yeah, so makingvinyl this year is June four or five,
(40:55):
five, five, five or fivesix. I mean we'll probably be
there like the day before, inthe day after something like that, like
we generally try and do. It'sin Nashville this year, like it was
last year, no year before,year before. Yes, yeah, so
(41:21):
going back to Nashi, which iscool. I like Nashville, had a
great time there. We're gonna tryand be at music biz again too,
which is in May again, Ibelieve, also in Nashville. Also in
Nashville. We might as well justgo there for the summer. Very much
(41:43):
from Nashville, totally affordable. It'llbe great. I've heard that there's one
or two record pressing plants there.Maybe we could get jobs, just a
couple along with the book as acompanion piece. We're going to try to
do some info sessions, so beon the lookout for those where you will
(42:05):
get to talk to some of thepeople in the book or doing that job.
And then we're finally going to tryto roll out some sort of a
membership friends of women in Vinyl.Robin has some great ideas and the board
is all working on that. Sokeep an eye out for some cool stuff
because we're changing the podcast a littlebit in the way that we give everything
(42:27):
away for free. We'll still getcool free stuff, just we got to
keep the lights on. We havediscussed everything costs money now and a lot
more money than it used to cost. So in that vein, we want
to give you more and in returnwe would like to get a little bit
and that is great because that allowsus to do more. Or are you
(42:50):
which is great? I love youand we want you to have everything.
Yeah, and ways to participate.We'll leave you on this note. Anonymous
Stories recommend someone you're not anonymous,tell us, tell us your things,
live your truth. I mean,people pay attention to them. We ruffled
(43:13):
some feathers earlier this year. Thelink to the form, which is completely
anonymous, is on our website underour resources. You can also email us
info at womenivinyl dot com to recommendsomeone check out our merch. Yeah,
buy merch because it's great. Yeah, we have a new shirt kind of
flew under the radar. It's reallycool. Has a twelve hundred on the
(43:35):
back. Donate, that's always cool. We still have a Patreon too,
right, yep, still have aPatreon. Yeah, so you can just
you know, pay us instead ofdonating. You could just pay us too,
which's great. All of that moneythat you decide to benevolently give us
helps to pay for the website,helps to pay for recording things like the
(44:00):
zoom calls and like all of theinfrastructure that it costs to do all these
crazy things that we're doing because wemake records. We're not rich. Yeah,
those record prices do not go togen and I and has discussed earlier.
I'm the cheapest LA cutter in NorthAmerica. Like, you can book
(44:21):
me to make your records, whichis great. But you know, I
like talking about records with Jen aswell. And if we can get Jen
to just do we have vital stuff, that would be the best. She's
she directs this whole cruise ship,and the possibilities are endless. Truly,
(44:44):
with everyone's help. We have anincredible board, we have an incredible adjunct
board, advisory board. Everybody thathas joined this party in the last few
years is all incredible. So yeah, always costs nothing but means a whole
lot. You can leave us areview of this podcast because you know that
(45:06):
you love it, and we've seenyour reviews and I had a little cry
when I read some the other day. I didn't know that that you loved
us that much, and it isit's nice to know that the things that
we're doing are making a difference forpeople. And we really do listen to
you. I mean, Robin andI were like, what do people want
to hear? What's so? Yeah, so tell us yeah, yeah,
(45:30):
because we can. We can talkall day and we're happy to you give
this topic and I will find away to so journ away from it and
the first correct is back to it. But yeah, you let us know
what you want. From twenty twentyfour, we're kicking around some ideas of
doing like dropping some mini episodes,maybe just some little factoid episodes. Let
(45:54):
us know what you think about that. Let us know if you want to
talk to Why should we talk toyou? Who are you, where do
you live? What? What canyou bring to the podcast because we do
want to hear from you. Wewant to know what your take on records
is. Awesome. Record Storre Dayis on April twentieth for twenty twenty four.
(46:19):
Mark them calendars and Thewomenvile dot comwebsite to check out where you can
buy records from lady owned record storesin your neighborhood. Yes, they might
not be one of the seventy two, but you know there for us so
exactly. We'll give them your money. Yeah, and give some to us
(46:40):
too. And thanks for listening againthat yeah forty seven? Whoa I know?
Three years in? All right?Cool? Thanks you guys, Thanks
team, We love you guys.We'll see you get another couple of weeks.
(47:00):
Yep, bye ye, thanks forlistening. Don't forget to like,
subscribe and leave us a review onyour favorite podcast platform. Join the conversation
on social media at Women in Vinyl. We want to hear from you.
Shoot us a message for topics youwant to hear, feedback and more to
info at Womeninvinyl dot com. Hugeshout out and thank you for all our
(47:23):
supporters, affiliates and sponsors like MarshallHeadphones. Visit our website Women Invinyl dot
com for ways to get involved,and you can always contribute to the education,
demastification and diversification of the vinyl industryby donating at Women Invinyl dot com
slash donate. See you next time. This episode has been brought to you
(47:46):
by Women in Vinyl and Red SpadeRecords. Thank you for listening. Please
remember to subscribe, and you canalways contact us directly by visiting www dot
com. Women in Vinyl dot com
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