Crop Circles w/ Citizen D

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
But we had a situation where two strange things happened.
We made a crop circle, and the second that we
started to make it, this pink light came across blinked on,
blinked on above us, right above us, right in the center,
you know, right above us. And somebody said, well, that's

(00:25):
obviously a truckle. We're in trouble because the military do
take an interest in it. In interest so you do
often see patches and military aircraft around crop circles, and
a lot of military bases are around where crop circles
are made as well, which we were not sure if
that's a fascical incidents and anyway, so we saw this
light and we realized that it wasn't a chopper because

(00:45):
there was no sound and there was no rope of blades,
and there was nothing at the end of it, and
that pink light was there until the end and then
blinked off the second we stopped making it.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
I think we all get the feeling that's something just
isn't right in the world. Welcome fellow foilers to the
Tinfoil Hat Club. What do we dare to discuss all
the things we don't talk about in church? And where
yesterday's fiction becomes tomorrow's fact.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
When you've got a government that's lying to your face,
controlling the information through the media their owns, that's not
a recipe for peace and civilization.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
The electromagnetic ways affecting our.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Planning megallithic cyclopean cycles.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
Anderson Cooper in turn for the CIA watchers in the
Days of Noah.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Hello, and welcome to the tinfoil hat Quoth. I'm Kyle
and I'm Ben, and thank you all for joining us
yet again. So we are going to have a really
interesting show today. Before I bring our guests on, I
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(02:47):
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And there's a reason that we're going to do it
that way today that I will explain here in.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Just a moment.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
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(03:17):
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Speaker 3 (06:01):
Very cool design it is.

Speaker 2 (06:03):
We're going to actually, hopefully by the next live stream,
we'll have a couple of examples. Ben and I ordered
some of our own gear and we're going to actually
model that for.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
You so you can see what it looks like live
in person. So yeah, that'll be kind of awesome. And
then go ahead, what are you say? Okay?

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Speaker 3 (06:37):
Had a million thoughts run through and none of them
was like I better say that. Well probably best life,
I said, did Ben.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
So there you go, without further ado, we will bring
in our guest today and I will do a quick
little introduction. You are only going to get an avatar
of this gentleman today, and there's a very distinct reason
for that. We are going to be talking about the phenomenon.
I think phenomenon is exactly what we're going to be
talking about today of crop circles. What are crop circles?
How do they happen? Who is creating these? And our

(07:08):
guest today is actually Citizen D. Now we do know
his first name, but we are not going to share
that with you because we're actually going to protect his anonymity,
not for any you know, crazy reason. We're not trying
to be uber mysterious, but as part of his research
into these things, he has actually been in the field
while they have been created in farmers fields and as

(07:29):
he said to us, farmers will to grudge. So we
just want to protect protect his anonymity as he has
been studying these phenomenon and he has been with them
in the fields. And so that's why we are going
to not show his picture today. But we have D
joining us today. So D, thanks for joining us.

Speaker 3 (07:45):
Man.

Speaker 1 (07:46):
That's a pleasure, guys, lovely to be here.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yeah, man, it's going to be good.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
So, as you can tell by the accent, D is
one of our brothers across the pond. So he is
joining us rather late his time tonight, so we appreciate
that very much. But Yeah, this is going to be
a really fascinating conversation because you know, we we like
to vet everybody before they come on the show, and
he does the same thing. He makes sure he checks out,
you know, people before he goes on their show. And
we had a really good conversation.

Speaker 4 (08:11):
Man.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
I forget how long we talked for. It was probably
at least an hour hour and a half, maybe even longer.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, yeah, I really got into a lot of these
things and want to share some of that conversation today
and get into even more stuff. But I guess for starters, man,
just kind of talk about how you got interested in
this particular phenomena. What was kind of your gateway for that.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
I've always from the kid been involved in youuthology, the paranormal.
Never understood why it's not really been in my family
at all. There was no you know, tropes as to
why I should be into it. I was like born
with an interest and the first time I saw close Encounters,
it sort of touched me. I was only twelve years old,
and it touched me on this primordi or latent level

(08:53):
that I didn't understand. It was like a familiarity. Guys.
It was like when I saw close encounters, I thought
this isn't something I've seen for the first time. It
really did touch me profoundly. And then in the eighties
we started to because obviously being a mythologist, I was
eating the books. I was buying everything that came out.

(09:13):
I was buying the John Keel books and Jack Vaia
and John Spencer and the Majestic twelve books. And then
in the UFO casebooks we started to see scrop circles. Now,
in those days they were single flattenings. They would they

(09:34):
looked like birth UFO. It looked like if a craft
came down it would look it would indent in the
in the science and shape of a circle. Or you'd
have single circles with four tiny satellites around them that
looked like the craft from the science fiction films like
The Day of the Earths did still, and they were

(09:56):
also seeing in Australia they're called tally nests. As things
progressed in nineteen ninety we saw the first picturegrams. Now
these were the first crop circles where they weren't looking
like landed UFOs. They were like straight lines with door
keys and dumb bells, etc. They were more like pictures,

(10:22):
so instantly you would never associate that would be that
with being a landed UFO. But what had happened was
the image of UFOs and crop circles had become so ingrained,
you know, in the psyche, that they then suddenly became Oh,
that's not a landed ufo, that's a message from our

(10:42):
space brothers. Now. I went and visited my first crop
circle in nineteen ninety nine and it was near Avery
Stone Circle. It was like a pentagram thing, like a
pentagon with triangles in it. Absolutely found fantastic. I had
like a time a time shifting there in the I

(11:07):
thought I was there for ten minutes, and then it
was getting dark. Then I realized I've been there for
two hours. I mean that you can read into that
what you like. Then I became more interested, and I
started to fly them with a commercial pilot, and I
used to fly over them every year. And then in
the end I thought, listen, I want to find out
exactly what this is. So I was of the impression

(11:29):
that they were done by some paranormal forces. We didn't
know what they were. It was either military testing or
paranormal forces, or the Earth itself. Speaking as a sentient body.
I thought, the only way I'm going to find out
is by actually living in the area for a whole season.
So I stayed there for eight weeks, and then I
started to become aware through listening to people on the

(11:52):
camp site, strange people, that they were strange. There were
strange reports emerging from people that had gone in to
make the crop circles. Now at that point I was
disdainful of crop circle makers. I thought that the mystery
was very deep already, and I looked at it as
being like a magician with like the ball under the

(12:14):
three cups. And then some idiot coming along and added
another ten. You know, we thought that they We thought
that they were pranksters, you know, yeah, exactly. We thought
that they were pranksters. We thought that they were doing
it for ego. We thought they were doing it to
mess things up. But I kept on hearing more and
more stories about people feeling that they were being compelled

(12:35):
to make crop circles and pulls to make crop circles,
and they were reporting really strange, really strange events before,
during and after creation. By before, I mean through dreamers
and synchronicities. So I thought, look, I'm going to have
to go out if if they take me into their trust,

(12:58):
I'm going to have to go out with a team
and see if any of this strange stuff is real. Okay,
And if it's not real, I'll just walk away from
the subject and I'll just fine, you know, I'll start again.
I'll just reboot. So I was called to help with
the team, and the reason why, the reason why they

(13:18):
asked me was I was overheard saying, look, I'm really
interested in what happens while they're being made. So I
went out and I phoned my partner and I said,
I'm going out to help on a crop circle this evening.
If nothing weird happens, nothing, I'm never going to do
it again. Okay. So we went out and we finished

(13:41):
a crop circle. It was it was a two stage event.
It had been started the night before, but they'd bitten
off more than they could chew and they couldn't finish it.
So when I went into it, it was already half done.
The crop circle was completed, and I thought, this is
all just a load of buncom nothing's happened. I've seen nothing.
There's no UFOs, there's no time slips, there's nothing. This

(14:03):
is all just a load of guys just having a
laugh and taking the mickey out of everybody, you know.
And then what happened was when I had that thought,
as soon as the circle was finished, at the very
rim of the circle, at the very edge, I saw
a magnesium flare go off that looked like a flash

(14:24):
bowl from an old polaroid camera. And I said to
the team leader, we've had it. I said, somebody has
been watching us all the time, and the sun was
coming up by this time. Somebody's been watching us. They're
taking pictures. This will probably be, you know, in the
local paper. We're in We're in dead trouble here, because
making crop circles is an illegal act. Okay, it's it's trespassed.

(14:45):
Its criminal damage, and you can get prosecuted through a
civil action from the farmer. And he said, oh, don't
worry about it. And what happened was that single light
multiplied and it turned into six, and then it turned
in to a dozen, and then it turned into thirty.
It multiplied and it went all around the perimeter of

(15:06):
the crop circle, so that in the end we were
like enclosed by this necklace of flaring lights. That were
glistening and just popping off, and the team leader looked
heavenwards and he said, all right, we get the message.
We're off now. And I said, who are you talking to?

(15:28):
T And he said, well, when a crop circle's finished,
we sometimes get a round of applause, and that's just
it telling us to stop now and to say if
we add any more, we're probably going to mess it up.
And it's kind of saying this a little round of applause.
And I said, what are you talking about? Who's they?

(15:48):
And he just looked up heavywards and he said, it's
that lot. And then he said, okay, we're going now.
Because the crop circle slogan is always it's our for
as long as we making it, but the second we
leave the field, it's not ours anymore. And he said, okay,
we're going now. You can do your work now with
the crop circle and then he said like goodbye, and

(16:11):
at that point the lights just off, all of them gone.
And that was my first experience.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
Okay, so effectively, what it sounds like is you had
these supernatural entities of some kind show up and this
person that's leading the team for this design effectively hands
this thing over.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Is that what I just understood? Yeah, it gives over control, like, hey,
we did this for you, we built it, now it's yours.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Here you go.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's a bit more to it than that, because we
don't know sometimes what influences us to go into the
fields in the first place. Okay, so what I'm just
going off top, just off top of a little bit,
but you'll see why. Sometimes we'll have a design written
out and you think you've invented it. You think, oh,
that's quite cool, you know, and then honestly, guys, you

(17:09):
go to make it and somebody's already done it, and
then you think, where did the idea come from? And
why has somebody else made that self? Same circle? Okay,
So the answer to your question is we say it's
hours for as long as we're making it, but we

(17:30):
don't know if there's any third party involved before or
during the creation process, do you understand?

Speaker 3 (17:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:39):
Weird Now, just to emphasize that further the second time,
because what happens is you don't go out and become
a team leader straight away. You're basically a foot soldier.
So for the first few circles, you're just stomping you're
just you know, stomping the crop down. Somebody else measures
it out. It takes about an hour up to and

(18:00):
out to measure it out, depending on how big it is,
and then you get the pawns that the foot soldiers stumping.
We don't actually go and make our own circles unless
we've done a few and we've learnt the ropes. Now,
what happened to me was I had this recurring dream
of swooping over the countryside and seeing two crop circles

(18:23):
in adjacent fields. And the area wasn't an area that
I was familiar with, but I knew in my mind
it was Wiltshire. In my gut it was Wilchhire. Now,
I kept on having this dream, and then one day
driving through Wiltshire. Sorry. So the other thing was when
I had this dream, there was always a guy next
to me. And here was this chap that I went

(18:44):
to school with that I haven't thought of for thirty years.
I've got no connection with him at all, I've got
no reason to think of him. And then I wake
up always thinking, where there's that crop circle dream again?
And why is that guy next to me? I went
to school with him? I hadn't seen him for thirty years.
I was driving down the road through Wiltshire and I

(19:06):
took a wrong turn. Now, wrong turn in this topic
is always something which is loaded, you know, because you say,
was it a wrong turn? Was I supposed to do it?
I went down this wrong turn, I found the landscape
that was in my dream, okay, which was weird enough
because I'd never seen it before. Then I looked back

(19:28):
and I saw that the name of the road that
I'd driven down by mistake was the name of the
road that this schoolfriend lived in thirty years ago. And
I took that as a sign, and I thought, right,
I've got to make a crop circle. I've got to
make both crop circles in two fields. And then I
looked at the logistics. There was a big hill separating
the two fields. I phoned my wife and I said, look,

(19:51):
I've got a choice of two crop circles here. I
can only get one down. Which one should I do?
And she didn't know, and I spoke to my tea.
I said, I'm fifty to fifty. I don't know which
one to do. And in the end, I said, let's
go to a field. I'll go with both designs and
I'll like be Luke Skywalker, I will just choose not

(20:12):
to choose, and just open myself up, empty my mind
and see what comes first. And then I did it.
I made the first stump mark. We made this crop circle.
The next day, I got a phone call from my
partner and who was at home, you know, miles away,
and she said, my god, you were busy last night.
I said, well, we got the circle down. And she goes, no,

(20:34):
you didn't. I said we did. She goes, you got
them both down. I said we didn't. I said, we
just did that one. I only had a five man team.
We did the one crop circle, and she said, in
the next field, there's your other crop circle. Now there
was a big hill separating the two fields, so that
was like a screen, so we couldn't see the other

(20:56):
team and they couldn't see us, and we didn't know
about them, and they didn't know about us. And that's
at the point where I think there's something to this.
There's something, there's some sort of engineering going on here.
And that's where I really started to go down the
rabbit hole and start to really think about what was
going on. And we're not sure if there's telepathy between

(21:20):
the makers, or if we're speaking within the collective consciousness,
or if we're triangulating with something else, that's where we are.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Yeah, it almost seems to me that's exactly what's happening.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
And again, you know, I think i'd kind of told
you when we had talked, you know, several weeks ago,
when we were talking about having you on the show.
Is you know, I've said several times here recently and
shows that Ben and I said of this wonderful intersection
where we get all these different really cool people that
have had experiences in a very specific niche area, like
here's this crop circle, someone else's maybe UFO phenomenon. Someone
else will be sleep paralysis or or night terrors or

(21:57):
things like that, And we have all these different avenues
in and it's funny how everything kind of comes to
a centralized congruency point, which is some kind of spiritual phenomenon,
you know, and a lot of times dark spiritual phenomenon.
So not to say that this is a dark spiritual phenomenon,
but I would kind of lean maybe it's something is

(22:17):
a little strange going on now. A lot of questions
already from what you have shared with us. You had
mentioned I'll go back to the top of kind of
I was dropped out notes as you were talking, you
had mentioned that you guys have experienced. One of the
phenomenons you have experienced when you are going through this
is time shift. How much of the time does that

(22:38):
actually happen when involved with something of this creation.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
Well, the first thing to say is that these time
these time anomalies, they're not just for crop circle makers. Okay,
I've got friends that are friends now and they've said
they've gone to visit crop circles and the coach they're
part of the day out, and the coach the coach
drivers said all right, I'll be back in two hours,

(23:07):
you know. And then they're in the crop circle for
what they think is ten minutes, and the coach is
there and they're going, well, why is he back so early?
And then they look at the watches, and then obviously
two hours have passed. But we had a situation where
we made two strange things happened. We made a crop circle,
and the second that we started to make it, this

(23:30):
pink light came across, blinked on, blinked on above us,
right above us, right in the center, you know, right
above us, and somebody said, well, that's obviously a chopper.
We're in trouble because the military do take an interest
in it. In interest, so you do often see patches
in military aircraft around crop circles, and a lot of
military bases are around where crop circles are made as well,

(23:53):
which we're not sure if that if that cir coincidence
and anyway, so we saw this light and we realized
that it wasn't a chop because there was no sound,
and there was no rote of blades, and there was
nothing at the end of it, and that pink light
was there until the end and then blinked off the
second we stopped making it. Now what happened was some

(24:15):
idiot on the team had actually got the tape the
wrong way round and instead of marking out in feet,
he marked out in meters, and we didn't realize until
we didn't realize until far too late that we were
making a crop circle three times the size that it

(24:37):
should have been. Okay, there were only one, two, three,
there were four of us in the team. It wasn't
going to happen. But you can't leave a circle unfinished.
So sometimes when you make a mistake like that, you
can change the design and just you can get away
with it. But there was enough of it actually already
drawn out where we could not get away with it.

(24:59):
So it was a futile task. And we knew that
we and we were really near the road as well,
so we knew. We knew that when the light came
up there because they could see the whole thing, we
were really panicking. And it got to about because you
start making about ten o'clock, because that's when the sun
but that's when the night comes, and then your eyes

(25:20):
become accustomed to the darkness very quickly your cloak. So
you got between ten and three to get the thing done.
I think we got to about quarter to two, and
we were like not even a quarter of the way through,
all right, we got so we and then it got
to like quarter to three and we were still way

(25:41):
way off. And one of us said, what I wouldn't
give for more time, which was echoing the sentiments of
all of us. And we worked for another hour, guys, okay,
and it was still dark. And then we worked for
another half hour, guys, and it was still dark. And

(26:02):
then I said to one of the team what time
is it? And they said it's ten past three. I said,
that's impossible, because I asked you and it was quarter
to three and that was like an hour and a half,
two hours ago, And we got the crop circle finished
and when we finished it, that's when the pink lights

(26:25):
went off. But it's also when they broke uk. And
I've never been able to understand that, because even from
a mathematical point of view, even if you don't believe
the story, we know that four of us could not
have made that crop circle in that time because it
is physically impossible, and yet we managed it, and we

(26:48):
had this elongated nighttime and I've never been able to
understand it. And I know it sounds crazy, I know,
but I experienced it. And one of the people on
the team was somebody who's not particularly at a believer
in the paranormal aspects of crop soircle making, and to
this day she says that gives me goosebumps. Now, m.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Yeah, that's a remember us. Some of this is coming
back to me too from when we had discussed before.
But time shift is a very normal phenomenon for a
lot of people that have experienced some kind of you know,
UAP or UFO activity or an abduction you know event
or something like that is always a very prevalent feature
that it happens a lot of times with folks in

(27:33):
that you know, that realm that that those things happened to. Yeah, yeah,
what you had made an interesting comment I want to
dive into. You said, you know, you can't leave a
circle or a design unfinished. Why why is that? Like
what that was such an inphasis point for you. What's
what's the reason behind that?

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Well, it's like the cardinal rule for all of us.
They say, don't take on anything that you can't finish,
you know. And the short answer I suppose would be
and this this, this is where things that there's an
dictonomy which there's like this paradox. Okay, we have to
make crop circles look as if they're not man made,

(28:16):
because if they look as if they're man made, there's
no potency or magic in them. Okay. Now what I
mean by that is if people perceive, if people perceive
a crop circle to be made by people, they will
not be interested in it, and therefore it's not if
you like activated. Okay, So the short answer is, if

(28:38):
it's not finished, and it can be seen to be
not finished. That crop circle is not seen as a
real crop circle.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Mm.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Yeah, and you just made another interesting comment I want
to ask you about. You said, na as you think
of the same thing too, not activated, What do you
mean by that?

Speaker 1 (28:56):
What we mean is that once the crup circles made.
And this is also very important. The reason, apart from
the fact that it's illegal, why I don't want to
be identified, is because if I pin myself to any
of these crop circles, okay, the second that authorship is admitted,

(29:18):
the potency goes. Now, what we say is that people
that visit crop circles afterwards, who are believers, who believe
the crop circle not to be man made, will have
a spiritual, magical experience that wouldn't have occurred had they
believed it to be man made. Indeed, they probably wouldn't
even visit it if they perceived it to be man made. Okay,

(29:41):
Because as I said, we are the villains of the piece.
They look upon crop circle makers with the same disdain
as I did before I realized that something else was
going on. So when we say activated, it means that
they are able to you give people their spiritual experiences

(30:02):
because the people believe that they are something else. If
that answers your question.

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
It kind of leads me to yet another question of
why do you think there is such a huge push
to like discredit crop circles, crop circle makers, just the
whole phenomenon in general.

Speaker 3 (30:21):
Why do you think that that is.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
When you say discredit, Can you just elaborate on that
as it?

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah, I think you know, like you you seemingly, you know,
kind of had that thought as well, that it was
just you know, a bunch of people out there screwing
around trying to make people think it's it's, you know,
something else other than you know, man made stuff. And
you know, it goes back into here, at least in
the States, back when we're all relatively about the same age,
when we were growing up, there was a huge push

(30:50):
and a huge effort made to discredit people who are
trying to claim that they have had some kind of
paranormal experience, uap ufo experience, at abduction experience, whatever the
case is. And now as we move into twenty twenty five,
it's pretty much like the cats out of the bag
and they don't even really hide it anymore. It's like, yeah,
these things are happening, and now we have the military

(31:12):
and the government stepping forward and saying, yeah, we've even
experienced it. And here's video from our you know, jets,
and our destroyers and our boats and high tech military
equipment has captured this stuff. So it just seems like
this to me in my mind, and if I'm off here,
I want you to say it please. It seems to
me this was a part of that and has been

(31:33):
largely tried to have been attacked and tried to be discredited.
I guess it's the only word I can come to,
or debunked or whatever. So that's kind of what my
question is.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Well, had we had the two circle makes that you're
probably aware of that they were called Doug and Dave
in the nineties, and they were the guys that were
really wheeled out to say that they are responsible for
the crop circles, okay, and that really did put the
kaibosh on it because up until that point people were
I think even our Row family were interested. I know

(32:06):
that Prince Philip was interested, Prince Charles was interesting. People
were very, very interested. And suddenly these two guys come
out and say we did them all. Okay. This is
the other thing. They were very very very basic circles
that they were making, Okay, and like you say, the mystery,
the whole thing just disappeared. But crop circles in their

(32:32):
intricacy increased because obviously the people that were making then
were getting better at what they were doing, okay, and
they got tricks that they could use. You'd find a trick,
some little design you can make, and then you can
incorporate into next year's you know, season, because the season
only ran us from April two September, so we spend

(32:54):
the rest of the time. We've got like nine eight
or nine months to do our planning, okay, or receive
our messages if that's your way of thinking. Okay. But
it seems whether teutonomy is that as as the crop
circles have got more and more and more complicated, what

(33:15):
we can't understand is why the believers will not take
on board that it's only because the artists have got
better at what they're doing. Okay.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Interesting, like you said, you design, you can just you
design the you'll draw it up before you go out,
and then you do it. And then I was stuck
back when he said that, you know, he had two
two were designed on the same night. And was it

(33:48):
similar to that one or was it totally different? Like
what you made over on the other side of that
you said, on one side of the hill and somebody
else made something. Were they similar or were they totally different? Designs?

Speaker 1 (34:01):
In my dream were two completely different designs. I couldn't
decide which one to do, so I let my free
will or I emptied my mind and thought, okay, I'm
just I'll go with whatever comes. That was my first
crop circle. The one that appeared in the other field

(34:22):
was exactly the other one that I dreamt, which was
completely different.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Okay, interesting, and have you found any rhyme or reason
for the difference in designs? Do they in your mind
trigger different things or what's the rational behind that?

Speaker 1 (34:42):
You'd have to speak to the crup circle design This
sees sometimes what happens is Sometimes what happens is somebody
will make a design, stick it in a field and
then through the jungle drums. Because there's this myth that
all the crop circle makers know each other. We don't
this all the time. There's the from different parts of
the country. But somebody will make a design and then

(35:05):
another team will get in touch, maybe a couple of
months later. When they found out who they are, is said,
where did you steal our design from? We were just
about to do that and they had they hadn't you know.
So sometimes you'll find that there's a design which is
which complements the area. So Stonehenge you'll see a ying yang,

(35:27):
or through the Neolithic sites you'll see crrup circles, which
which give reverence to the area in which their placed.
You do see a lot of recurring themes, okay, but
there's no hard and fast rule. Sometimes you'll find a
recurring theme one season because somebody is sort of that's
a nice trick, I put that in mind. But the

(35:50):
other school of thoughts says, they're all the same. But
why because how do we know the circle makers were
even looking? You know. It's this is where we start
to think about is there something else at play? So
I'll give you another example. What We had a situation
once where we were going to make swallows and I

(36:12):
was the only one on the team that was a greenhorn.
I was new. So the crop circle leader that the
team leaders spent most of the day mentor or mentoring
me and what I had to do, because obviously I
was the weakest link. If anything was going to go wrong,
it would be my doing, which is on him. So
we were going to do swallows. And then the second

(36:34):
we got to the field, he sat bolt up right
in the car and said, we're doing spirals. I said,
we can't do spirals. I don't know what I'm doing.
I spent all day with you in the in the
pub just drawing this thing out. No, we're doing spirals.
So we went to the field made these spirals. What

(36:56):
happened there that was something that was a bit strange.
There was that we've got tram lines in the field,
which is like these straight lines that go across the
field where the phone vehicles, you know, drive, and I
had the construction line. So you've got a construction line.
Then you're board within the construction line. So I was
halfway around and then I realized, to my horror that

(37:18):
I'd actually started stomping alongside the tram line is dead,
so I'd lost my way. The whole circle was messed up,
and I looked behind me and it was rectified. What
the mistake I'd made, wasn't there anymore, and I thought,
that's really strange. So anyway, the next day the circle
was good. We went to the internet cafe because there

(37:39):
was no Wi Fi in those days, and yeah, and
every time a crop circle is reported sometimes you see
sometimes you'd tip somebody off, you'd you'd phone a name
named person, say you might want to fly your plane
over this field. You might find something, okay, and then
it's reported and then it goes on. So we went

(38:00):
to the internet cafe, we went on the Crop Circle
Connector website, and then we found our circle and we went,
that's a bit strange. The filter on the camera must
be wrong because we were making in green in golden wheat.
This is in green wheat. And then we said, well,
you know, that site's not really really good. That's a
really rooky eraror. And then we looked at we looked

(38:23):
at the location, and somebody had made an identical circle
on the same night as us, within the same hours,
no more than ten to fifteen miles away. And that's
where you start to think, is it our design?

Speaker 3 (38:39):
What's put in your mind?

Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah, what's what's happening? So that that's why, in a
convoluted way, I'm getting back to your question, we don't know.
We don't know about the You know, you say you
pick a certain design, how do you pick it? It
just it's out of our hands, you know, you think
you've thought of it. And another example, this is ridiculous.
I am. I drew out a pattern which which meant nothing,

(39:04):
and I drew it out in the back of a
cigarette packet in the van, and I thought, well, that
means nothing. So if we get it wrong, no one's
got anything to like compare it to. It's not like
I'm a sonic symbol or anything. And so we made
this formation in the field and it was, as I said,
just something I'd made up. Next day, we went to
breakfast in the caf very close to the field, and

(39:27):
we had those like school dinner school benches where you
have to budge up and somebody sits down. This guy
said budge up, and I looked at his shirt and
he had my design all over his shirt. And that's
when you think, what's happening?

Speaker 3 (39:40):
Yeah? Right?

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Why did I think of that? Why is he sitting
here now? If I'd have gone somewhere else for breakfast,
would he be there? What does it all? This is
the question. We don't know what it all means. Guys.
We've got the jigsaw, we've got the jigsaw pieces, we
can fit them together, but we don't know what it means.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
Wow. Okay, So I should have said this in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
But if you guys are just now tuning in and
to listen to us, we were actually talking to Citizen
D today who has a lot of experience when it
comes to crop circles, and we're having a really fantastic
conversation with him. If you want to find out more
about him, if you're listening to the show and you
want to find out more, go check out his substack.
It can't be people no spaces, so it can't be
people dot substack dot com. And you can actually find

(40:26):
out more about his work and you can sign up
and get updates as he finds out more information. So okay,
So another question, Man, So many I've been like powered,
I've been like power typing over here while you're talking. Man,
So no, no, no, no, sorry, this is fantastic, man, you
give it more questions, that's not don't be sorry for that.

(40:47):
So you seem like you have one. Well, I think
it's already up there, So go ahead, fire away, steal, steal, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Do you think, Well, I want to get back to
like how they are subconsciously connected, these groups and how
how do you think? What do you think that is?

Speaker 1 (41:09):
It's the sort of thing. Listen, there's two. There's two
as far as I can see, there's two possibilities. Either
we are subliminally speaking to each other telepathically. And I
don't mean by that. I just mean that the collector
of unconscious is in the species field. Okay, we are.
We are because this is the other thing.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Guys, it's important my wife and I do with each
other all the time. No, I'm not serious that we
really do that, because yeah, I totally understand we have
such a strong connection. Do you probably do it with
your wife?

Speaker 1 (41:38):
I bet? Yeah? Absolutely. Right now that this actually goes
into people that make crop circles, a lot of us
have have a latent interest in the paranormal. Okay, And
I'm not for a second saying, In fact, I'm denying,
we are not special. We're not anointed, we're not we're
not chosen ones. It seems to be that the that

(41:59):
the phenomenon hooks onto people that are aligned to it. Okay.
So a lot of the crop circle artists that I know,
lot of crop circle makers that I know, have all
got a lot of interest in the paranormal. They're very
much aligned to it. So we don't know if the
strength of that belief is enough to like cause a

(42:22):
transmission between us which is unconscious, or whether there is
something else at play, okay, which is using the same frequencies. Now,
I'm not sure if you're aware of the work of
John Keel or the ufologist, but what he what he
basically says is that if you think of it as

(42:42):
a radio, okay, and you've got your needle on one
of those old fashioned radios and you're tuned into a station,
that's not to say that no other stations exist. It
means you're only stuck on that station. Okay. So what
we're saying is either we think we're actually on the
same station as each other, but we also think that

(43:04):
possibly something else uses that station as well, So we
don't know if we're actually talking to each other or
if it's like I said at the beginning, if there's
a triangulation affecting there's something else going on above us.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
You know, yeah, have you guys ever done like an
EMF reading when you've been doing it, or like a
like a voice recording, like what they do with ghosts
and things, and talk to them to see if anything responds.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
No, But when I said to you before about crop
circles being active, you know, it's important to realize that
the stuff you're talking about can be recorded after we've
been there. Now, crop circle sites are crime scenes in
that obviously it's illegal to make them, but they're also

(43:57):
the parallels are there in that you've got to get
in quick because if you get in after too many
other visitors, it's been contaminated. So those first few hours
are important. So if you go to a crop circle
and say, oh, this must be a man made because
there's footprints all over it, No, that's just the guys
that were there before you an hour ago. Okay. So

(44:18):
to answer your question, I know of some crop circle
researchers that have gone into crop circles when they've been
fresh a day okay, and they've recalled and they've recorded
like metallic noises and trilling noises. It's on tape. They've
had it and they've and they've recorded the stuff that

(44:41):
you're talking about. But then the believers say, oh, that's
just proof it's not man made. It's not they are
man made. It's just happening in man made circles. So
it's too much because people say, just oh, do you
film yourself doing them? No, we're too busy. We can't
be going to round you know, we've got enough to do.
We've got enough to do. And also why we feel
ourselves because that again, that's claiming authorship and if you

(45:03):
don't believe it, then you're not going to believe it anyway. Okay,
So the stuff you're talking about is perfectly valid to
be done the next day for as long as the
circle's fresh and it has been done, and people will
go into crop circles and they their mobile phone batteries
will die the camera in the old days, when we
had the old cameras with the chunky batteries in them,

(45:25):
the batteries would die. And I've seen that stuff happening
in crop circles that my friends have made. We've gone
to the next day, they've been packful of people and
the people's phones have been flattening and the batteries have
been draining to nothing. So you don't have to be
there the night for that stuff to occur. You can

(45:46):
still have it when it's fresh.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Do you see when you guys are done with one
of these and you've and you're finished in this afterwards,
you do you see obviously, yes, it's a crime scene,
which would you know obviously the authorities are going to
come and take a look, which that makes sense. But
do you see an increased amount of military activity around
these sites afterwards?

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Weller than that, guys. In the where we make in
the nearly the ancient sites like the Pagan sites and
like Stonehenge, Avebree around the Henges, why is there there's
always military bases okay, and they're always on the doorsteps.

(46:28):
So whenever there's like whenever there's like historic Neolithic sites,
there's always a bloody air Force base down there. So yeah,
I've been in corrupt circles where they buzzed us and
they've like, really, first of all, you think, is it
a prank? Because I've heard that people say that they
use them as GPS markers, because obviously they use them

(46:49):
for if you've got load of if you've got a
load of helicopters, you know, riding around the countryside. It
does become boring after a while, so they just say, oh,
go to go to this GPS point report what you
find and it's a crop circle. But yeah, I used
to have footage of a brand new crop circle which
a friend had made. I was a believer then, so

(47:11):
I didn't know. I thought it was aliens then, and
there was this crop circle just landed. This massive great
chinnut came down. But we also had a situation which
I only remembered recently, where we went to make a
crop circle ten years ago and the design we had
was like a stealth okay, but we didn't realise until

(47:34):
we looked at it after that's a stealth bomber. It
was like an outline. We started to make it, guys,
and we saw this light, like this pink light, and
it was just after we'd done the other one with
the time thing, and I thought, O, curus, there's another
UFO there. And this thing got bigger and bigger then
we had. Then we rose. It was a chopper. It
landed where it was it was it was coming down,

(47:56):
is it to land where we were making the crop circle?
And we just dropped the kit and we've ran and
I think we Actually we were in such a panic
that we didn't collect I think we had to collect
the boards and the take the next day because we
just dropped and ran. And I said to my friend,
how did I know we were here? And they said, well,

(48:17):
where we've stopped the car down the road, they've probably
got the heat seeking and they can probably see the
engine still warm. You know. So the answer is yes,
we And I've seen it time and time again. There's
been crop circles in the military. But you're not sure
if they if they're just having a laugh, because sometimes
they wave but you're not. But sometimes you think, why

(48:38):
are you Yeah, and it's not. It's not a coincidence. Guys,
they are right above you. It's they are there for
that m.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
What is the what is the qualification? Because you talked
about about these groups and teams? Well, how do how
does one get into one of these groups? And like,
what are the qualications for the ques?

Speaker 1 (49:00):
There's no qualifications, you don't there's there's no diploma, there's
no school. I just got lucky because somebody heard somebody
heard me saying I'm not I'm not really bothered about
how they've got there. I'm more concerned about what they
do once they're there with the activation, but I'm also
interested in all this supermatural stuff that you're talking about. Okay,

(49:24):
So what generally happens is somebody will join the team
and then they just learn the ropes and then they'll
go out and do it, and then somebody else to
join them, and then it's a cycle and cycle. So
if if I was to sort of count that the
amount of crop circles makers they've been over the years,
it probably runs into thousands. Okay, and this is another

(49:46):
key thing. People say, oh, that's that that that's a
crap circle, because it's really really bad. Okay. What you've
got to remember is that we're not like a rock
and roll band. We can't just like rehearse really badly
in the garage and only do a gig when we're ready. Okay, yeah,
we get our rehearsal room. Our rehearsal garage is the field.

(50:09):
So so your first crop circles, unless you've been mentored
and gone out with a you know, with a good team,
when you've done it a few times, your first circle
is going to be absolutely rubbish unless you go really basic.
But then when, but when the teams get better. The
people that were laughing, you know, at those at those
crop circles, a few years later they're marveling at the

(50:32):
work those same teams have done and saying it's the
real thing because they've had two years experienced, you know,
under their belts.

Speaker 3 (50:40):
Now when you do it, does it damage the craft?

Speaker 1 (50:43):
It does? It does? And now there's there is this
mythology about you know, you can tell between a man
made crop circle and an alien crop circle because the nodes,
the nodes are exploded and the stems are bent, not broken.
But it's all based on this study that was done

(51:04):
a few years ago which never passed scientific peer of you.
But unfortunately, because it's what people want to hear, they
just believe it. But yeah, yeah, Well what happened was
a friend of mine was actually one of the scientists
that they actually gave the papers to, and he was
gagged for ten years. He only started talking about it

(51:24):
in twenty and nineteen. He was gagged by the institute
because he said, you've used all the young you've used
all the wrong controls. You've not taken into account phototropism,
which is where if a plant is laid onto the ground.
Its natural instinct is to follow and reach up back
up to the sun again. Yeah. And also what you've

(51:48):
also done is for your samples, you've taken standing crop
rather than flatten crop. All your controls are wrong, but
people believe it because it's fit when their narrative. So yeah,
it does, it does. It does damage the crop now
that they can normally when they when they get the
combines out, they can sometimes scrape under and get it.

(52:10):
But yeah, it does damage the crop. But what's what's
really important to tell you. It's the farmers will tell
you it's not the crop circles that they get angry about.
It's the people that up their crop afterwards. Okay, the
visitors that go in in there, you know, in their coach,
like in their coach, they said, they do far much

(52:32):
more damage than the crop circle makers do. And also
when we go to make a crop circle, we will
go into the tram lines and then we'll actually you know,
stomp and we take big steps over the crop, so
it looks as if there's no way. We don't like
going single far. We take big steps and we fluff
it over behind us. These visitors will just go in
and just bulldoze. They don't go through the tram lines goes.

(52:56):
They just bordoze through the field and they do infinitely
more damage than we do. And the farmer will say
it's my land, and I'll say, no, it belongs to everybody,
you know, because they're like, no.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
One really doesn't. That's why it's.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Right.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Yeah, but it belongs to us all hall your yard
is now my yard. It belongs to all of us.

Speaker 4 (53:25):
You know.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
I wish there were some crap circles around here. Yeah,
there's there's we're boring. There's nobody wants to summon anything
around here, so we already have enough you know, stuff
going on anyway, I guess. But that was one question
that I did ask you in the in the prelude
to the show, just as we were talking, you know,
the several weeks prior, and I want to bring up
here just to kind of get it out there is

(53:47):
I had asked you just because you know, from our
standpoint being more of you know, spiritual standpoint and and
looking at the supernatural and having very open minds for
that stuff, and which is you're kind of on that
line too, from the supernatural aspect of it. But have
you had or seen any kind of occult you know,
involvement in this process is it?

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Is it to you know, no more than normal and
one off stuff or what's your been in your experience.

Speaker 1 (54:12):
I'm not sure if this supplies, but this is a
strange example that I had in a crop circle that
I was involved in. Now, this is a really important point.
People say, not fake or real. Okay, We've got our
own definition, some of us of what's a fake circle

(54:33):
and what's a real circle. A real circle is one
that's made with respect for the land. It's made for
no pretense. It it's made because we're compelled to do
it for whatever reason that we don't understand, and we
are doing it with respect to the area that we're
placing in. And what you find is a lot of

(54:54):
the paranormal experiences that I've been described, they only seem
to be within these like sacred sites. Okay. A fake
crup circle is something that's made with bad intent, or
it's done to trick or full people. It's done as
a piece of art, which is okay, it's okay, but

(55:15):
it's not it doesn't hold the same sort of enigma,
or it's done with malicious intent. Okay, now it wasn't
in the design. But I went to a crop circle
some years ago. It was in the blazing heat. It
was a beautiful day, blazing sunshine. And the thing with

(55:40):
Wiltshare is that if it wasn't for your car, you
could look around and you could be at any point
when in the last three thousand years, it's only like
your car and like the modern stuff that it's timeless.
So I walked into this crop circle, and as I
was walking in, I had this terrible, terrible feeling of foreboding.

(56:04):
Is if it was like I remember, I remember thinking,
I wonder what is actually behind this rather than the people,
what's actually who's the real architect? And the second I
started to have those thoughts, I had this terrible, terrible
feeling and it was really strong. And the vibe I

(56:25):
got was how dare you, you know, even think that feeling?
You're worthy of answering that question? And as I walked
further into the crop circle, I developed nausea and at
one point I actually felt as if I'd been whacked
around the back of the head. Okay, I thought it
was sun strugg I didn't know what it was. I
ventured further in, it got worse and worse and worse.

(56:47):
I had this malevolent, horrible feeling, and I walked out
of the crop self because I didn't have the I
didn't have the guts to walk into it even I
was so scared. But as I started to walk out,
the feeling disab painted. It was all right. So I
walked out and it got better and better, and then
I thought, well, it's a sunny day. Nothing dark and
hit me today because it's a summer's day, you know

(57:08):
that psychological thing where it's not gothic because it's in
the afternoon and it's blazing sun. I walked back into
the it was like you again. It was like yeah, really,
and it was worse than before. And then I felt
as if I'd been hit again, and I had like this, god,
what was that? You know? Wow? I checked for blood.

(57:28):
I think, you know, it's back of my head. It
sounds crazy, honestly, and then I went back and thought again, oh,
it's just you imagine it. So I ran back into it.
And then suddenly I've got this terrible, horrible, almost evil feeling,
and I thought, I'm not supposed to be here, and
I went now I'm not sure if that happened because

(57:50):
I had the goal to ask that question mentally, or
if there was something within that circle that was wrong,
you know. And I did actually speak to somebody else
and I said, did you go to addings? And he went, yeah,
so what did you think? And the thing with this
you don't ask leading questions. What did you think of it?

Speaker 3 (58:09):
Ah?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
He said, I didn't like that one at all. I said,
I don't think I went into it even, you know.
And then you've got to think, was there something in
the intent there or is this See sometimes you've got
to think if it is intent, was it on the
intent of the crop circle maker? Or was something else
at play there which maybe shouldn't have been playing with him?
You know? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Right? M interesting.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
So when you say ultimately and we've we've we've gone
an hour of fantastic questions, we come full circle back
to the name of your blog, all right, which is
it can't be people. So after you've had all these experiences,
and you've you've had all these things that you've seen
and heard, and just I'm sure we've probably not even

(58:58):
gotten into all of it today, there's no way what
do you mean when you say, it can't be people
for you what they say.

Speaker 1 (59:06):
And I've just got to go back for a little
bit there. Sometimes, you see, I've never seen a design
which is absolutely outwardly evil. Okay, you see, you do.
I've seen the swastika, but it was actually done in
the original Sanskrit Indian sense, you know, when it was
before hit the tendant by the way around. You know,

(59:29):
I don't think I think.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Yeah, incidentally, I will, I will pause you really quick.
That symbol is still used today in a lot of
places around the world. Actually, one of the most famous
is the Fallen Gong in China actually use that, and
they're heavily persecuted by the Chinese Communist Party. So yeah,
there's a hotel in southern Indiana that hasn't I yes,

(59:55):
there is, they've covered it, I think. Yes, it's down
in French Lick. Yes, yeah, we were there.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
One day and the one I saw.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
I just say that because I know that there's a
tremendous stigma not just here but all throughout the world
that the minute you see that symbol, oh it means
the Nazis, and it's like, no, it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
So just that's why I just wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:00:16):
And also that the edges were like rounded as well.
It wasn't like the straight right angles that you see,
you know. Yeah, yeah, I've forgotten the question, guys. I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
I'm sorry. Well it was it was just ultimately, what
does that mean to you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
What it means is this when I when when I
walked into my first crop circle, when I had that
slight time distortion, you know, thought God, because it was nightfall,
I thought, why is it night now? I've only been
here for ten minutes or something. And anyway, I looked around,
I looked around at the construction, and like the edges
were like razor sharp, and I just looked around. And

(01:00:54):
the strange thing was when I walked into that crop circle,
even though it was it shouldn't have been there where
it was planted, which was near the Avery Stone circle
right next to it, you had this sense as if
it was supposed It just looked completely natural within the landscape, Okay,

(01:01:15):
And I had this serene feeling of this reminds me
of something which I've forgotten. Now. What I think I
meant by that was that I think mankind has forgotten it.
It was like I answer, I thought, I know what
this means now, but it was just beyond my grasp
and it was really annoying because I thought this makes sense.
But I think it's I think it's made sense ancestrally, Okay,

(01:01:39):
because what we say is that when we make the
scrop circles, in some ways we think that we were
booting the work of our forebears that made the stone
circles and made the needlifthic monuments. We're just doing the
same without the heavy lifting. And our stuff stays there
for six weeks. There's stays there for six thousand years. Yeah,

(01:02:00):
which that's right. I've got I can't go out of
bad back. So anyway, I look around the crop circle
and I just looked around and said to my partner,
but mainly to myself, it can't be people. And but

(01:02:21):
knowing what I know now, you can interpret that as
being one hundred percent right or one hundred percent wrong,
because it is people making them, but it can't be
people actually behind the design or behind the bigger picture.
But also it means that the people that the people
that even have the evidence in front of them now

(01:02:42):
that says they must be man made. Okay, they still say, well,
it can't be people because they don't want it to
be people. But we still think that those early single
circles from the eighties, guys, and they've been and they've
been recorded a lot oil in the eighties, we don't
know what they are. We think that those single circles

(01:03:03):
that started the mystery are still a lot of them
are still on and they still crop up. I've seen
crop circles that people aren't interested in. They don't even
get reported because they just look like crop damage or
it's yeah, and obviously the world that we're living in
now is that they just want blings. So people that
are demanding more of the supernatural now, they want to

(01:03:25):
they want it in high definition. They want they want
they want their whistles and bells. But I've seen crop
circles that are just little more than wind damage, but
the crop is bent halfway up, and you're thinking, well,
nobody can do that with the board. It's impossible. So
we still think there's an air of mystery there. And

(01:03:45):
we also think with those single crop circles, some of
us say, were they put there by something else, by
something that's not human, as a way of like throwing
down the gauntlet for us to to pick up and say,
you know, I can do better than that, and then
it then floods in and uses us as like it's conduits,

(01:04:09):
so to speak, without being I'm going to say it again,
we're not special, we're just aligned to it. It's almost
as if when you when you hear messages of like
messages coming through clairvoyance and spirit, spirit says well, it's
very weak. It's taken me so much effort to get here,
and then they're pulled away. It's almost as if they've
made this single circle and only had enough energy exerted

(01:04:32):
to do that. But it's like a recruitment drive for
us to come in and say, well, we can actually
do this with boards and we can actually make pretty patterns,
and then it goes, yeah, thanks for that, because I
can now actually work through you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Yeah, what do you ultimately think that like the supernatural
element of this, the entity or whatever it is, the
entities that are kind of propelling this forward and using
you guys or whatever the case is, what do you
think that they're doing this for? Like, what's the ultimate
use for these these designs in these circles.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
What's important to realize is that I've explained to the
ups that we see. I explained them at niggas and flares,
I explained the pink lights. But what you've got to
remember is that we get these supernaturally and paranormal high
strateers' events. They seem to be concentrated and like provoked
by crop circles, but they've always been there, so the vote.

(01:05:28):
So history has always recorded in these areas UAPs. What
we called them, We used to call them sprites or
the wisps. It was the same thing. It was still lights,
it was still orbs. But it seems to be that
where our ancestors used to say, well, it's away with

(01:05:51):
he's away with the fairies. The fairies have taken him,
and he's come back two days later, we now say
that's that's the UFI abduction with missing time. So we
don't know whether the I preferred not to say enteritis.
I'd prefer to say a higher power. We're not sure
if this higher power is manifesting itself in this way

(01:06:12):
that we recognize it as being you, if I related,
when really it's been with us since our inception. If
that makes.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
Sense, Yeah, that does. One of the questions I had
written down actually quite a bit earlier, and I wanted
to get your take on this. Are you familiar with
the master Lineah?

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's one of the things I thought of
as you were talking and talking about you know, we
have a tendency to want to think, oh, this is
new stuff. It's only been around for forty years or so.
And much to your point on the ancestry kind of thing,
do you feel like maybe where you had mentioned Stonehenge
or you know, whatever the case is, where they're trying

(01:06:54):
to use different building materials in order to do this,
do you see that too as just a kind of
an old school extension. No, I guess not an extension
totally with you.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
I'm I don't know if you if they're if you
get them over there, but I'm a fan of a
bank called Killing Joke. They're huge over here, okay. And
the singer is really into it esoterics, and he said
that he is. Actually when I think he I think
he went within the belly of the the Adam of
the of the Spider in the NASA on the NASA

(01:07:27):
lines and he said, he said he thought it was
a portal. He said, he said something it seemed to
open up, you know something for him. So absolutely I
think that the the same intention that made those is
the same intention that made our crops our stone circles,
and we've like inherited that tradition, as I said, without

(01:07:49):
without the heavy lifting, and that the Naza lines and
the stone circles were there to base as markers, to
commemorate the fact that they knew that something was special
about that particular area. And again it gets back to
the crop circles. It activates it, okay, through the imagery

(01:08:09):
and through the fact that we are also using sacred
and ancient geometry as well. So absolutely March is yes
to that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
I pulled that up just so everybody can see what
we're talking about. I believe these are down in Peru,
in South America. I believe so. But yeah, this is
the spider that was actually.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Drawn in the ground.

Speaker 2 (01:08:30):
You can actually see here. And these are like how
old do they think? They are? Like a couple thousand
years old almost something like that, maybe fifteen hundred something
something along those lines. You had mentioned something else that
is you've been talking this whole time now obviously this
is just I want to get your take on this.

Speaker 3 (01:08:46):
I know what My take is, but from the minute
you and I started talking and you started describing all
these to me, even before and then even more so today,
it almost seems like what is happening is there's like
a portal that's being opened.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Do you feel like maybe that's what is happening.

Speaker 1 (01:09:06):
Yeah? I do. I do. And it's not just me.
A lot of us think the same thing. And we
think that when we actually are making the crop circles
and visiting as well, that's really important. We don't have
to be you know, makers. We are actually entering a
theater where stuff can happen that you wouldn't believe would

(01:09:30):
happen in any other in any other sphere. Now, that's
not necessary to meet. That's not necessary. It's like skin Walker.
It'd be nice to see it. I don't want to
take it home with me. So yeah, absolutely we see
that they are. We're not creating portals. We just basically,
as I said, all we're doing is like we if
you look at it this way, stone circles, crop circles,

(01:09:51):
it's like they're jump leads, guys. It's like they're like
they're like, so there's a power. It's like rebooting a
power that's already there. We just basically they're like back
is if you like the power was already there, but
it doesn't hurt to put some sacred geometry on top
of it, you know. But then you're back to the
rabbit hole seat. Sometimes we'll go and make a circle

(01:10:13):
in a certain area, the car will break down and
we'll go, we'll make it here instead, and then we
find out later where we've made it as a mistake
is the vastly more significance to the place we were
going to put it in. And then you think, how
far do you go without thinking at what point was
that decision not ours? We make mistakes with crop circles,

(01:10:35):
and we find out that that mistake is the most
important part of the crop circle to that area or
to somebody that's in the area looking at them, And
then we go at what point of what is design
and what is an accident and what's a mistake? We
just don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:10:52):
Do you think, Okay, the group as they're working together
doing this that I don't want, I don't and don't
know the best way to script, like their energy or
they're all working together for this one thing that is
their energy or their soul or whatever is producing this,

(01:11:13):
and they're all together in it can call something yeah,
almost like a sound yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:11:21):
If if they are all of that same mindset, because
this is interesting. We had a crop circle once where
we had a couple of girls that were tourists. They
wanted to tag along and be with us, and I
wasn't happy with bringing along. I said to the team leader,
well I was by that time. I was like joint.

(01:11:41):
I said, you know, these could be journalists. You know,
we don't know these girls from Adam, you know, and
they would going there just to see the spooky stuff.
There was no reverence there at Toll. It was like,
let's let's just go and see the supernatural theater. And
we went to make the crop circle. And what you
think is we're fascinating. It's not. Okay, it's just five

(01:12:02):
or six people milling about. The first are is spent
measuring it out, and the rest of it's just people
just stomping on corn. Okay, it's not interesting. It's interesting
for ten minutes, honestly, let me see, it's not interesting.
And then one of the girls said, about two o'clock
in the morning, after she's been sitting there, for three hours. Ah,
this is boring. Where's the spooky stuff? And the second
that she said that behind her, this court screw appeared

(01:12:27):
one hundred foot above her the size of her, like
a juggernault, and it was like I never figured it
was a pink court screw with turquoise. It was solid
and it's went a little spiral behind the ridge gone.
The whole event took two seconds and like she was
the only one who didn't see it, and like our
team leaders said, well, you know, you trigger like it's

(01:12:47):
not here to play hokus pokers for he's not doing
party tricks, you know. And it's like the sentience was aware.
So the answer to question is if everyone is of
that same mindset, then yes, But more important, it's not
about us, it's about what happens the next day. Like
I said you at the beginning, it's ours when we're

(01:13:08):
making it, it's not ours anymore the second we leave
that field. So what you're talking about is actually more
instilled in the people that visit it that then leave
their residual spirit spirituality. This sounds crazy, but it's like
the believers go in there with positive experiences and then
it builds and builds and builds and builds. So it's

(01:13:30):
we are just like the builders or whatever's above us
as the builders. But what's just as important is what
happens when the believers walking over the over the oncoming
weeks before it gets cut out.

Speaker 3 (01:13:43):
Okay, yeah, what are you've talked about the next day?

Speaker 2 (01:13:47):
What is it about the next day that is so activating.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
Well, there's two things. The two things to remember is
that it's more sure you can actually get more out
of it the first day, because you know, there's been
it's it's not been trampled to death. You know, it
goes from like divine to demolition within the space of.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
A few hours.

Speaker 1 (01:14:11):
If especially especially if it's if it's if it's in
a popular spot that's easily easy to part there, easy
to get to. But it just seems to be that
the fresher it is, you get more out of it.
But then there's people are arguing and say, well I
went back to Yeah, people, I know, I've said, well

(01:14:31):
I went back three weeks later and I still had
the same experience in there. I still I still had
a positive experience. And I argued, I said, well, Rob,
could it be that you know, that's because it's been instilled.
There were the people going after you. He said, no,
it really I had the same feeling on day one
as I did in day twenty one. And then obviously
then there that they're cut. Sometimes what happens the following

(01:14:52):
year is because there's been so many visitors and the
seeds of the seeds have been trampled through the pattern.
The next the next year, the crop circle that whatever
the crop is the next year will actually come through,
and then you'll see a transfer of the previous year's
pattern where the previous seas have been sampled in. And
they're called ghosts. They're called ghosts, but it's nothing supernatural.

Speaker 3 (01:15:13):
It's just like explaining what looks like, Yeah, like a
faint trace of what happened. That's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:15:19):
Yeah, they're really they're really cool. And I knew somebody
that was going to make a crop circle again. He
had he had this design and then he went to
make it, and a week before he was about to
do it, the ghost of the previous years had come
up and it was the same bloody thing he was
going to put down, and he's going, well, that means

(01:15:40):
that somebody has had this idea before. Me, why there?
And in all the thousands of films in Wiltshire, why there?
Why was I going to put it there? And then
you think again you've down the rabbit hole again.

Speaker 3 (01:15:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
We we had kind of talked about this before here
record today, pre show, and we get into these good
discussions pre showind of like cut it off because it's
like no saving for the show. And one of the
things we talked about was lay lines right well, and
that's not something that we're very familiar with now modern day,
but the ancients and our ancestors seem to know a
lot about it and draw power from the earth in

(01:16:16):
these ancient lay lines that seemingly run and through you know,
the whole planet, and one of them actually runs right
through Stonehenge, where you know, where you've been a lot.
Do you think that has anything to do ultimately with
the where you guys are drawn to do these things?

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Yeah? Absolutely absolutely. I think they say that we've that
ave Bray is the most concentrated crossover point in Europe
of of of of the lay lines. But even if
you even if you don't believe them in lay lines,
I can tell you this, guys, if you went, if

(01:16:57):
you went to ave Bray and there was no crops
circles there and there was nothing about one. There's nothing
exists I'm talking about now. You will still go I
feel something, there's a there's some there's something there that
there's there, there's some there's something there where it's magical
and it's there, whether the crop circles are there or not.

(01:17:17):
But it just seems to be that we exacerbate them.
But yeah, a lot of crop circle makers that I
know would absolutely absolutely be bang on with that, and
they say it's connected with the micare line. Absolutely the
answer is total yes. As I said before, I've said
I've spoken to during the course of my interviews and

(01:17:37):
if you know the crop circle makers, because obviously I
know a lot of them. I've interviewed people that have
made crop circles outside the area and abroad in Italy
and France. They said they've not there's nothing to report.
I said, if you've got anything at all that you
can tell me that I can put myself stick, anything
that's strange, anything that's out the ordinary. Nothing mhm.

Speaker 3 (01:18:01):
Just here, you're just boring Italians keep making spaghetti.

Speaker 1 (01:18:08):
I'm not going to take it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Anything here in America. Anything that you've had from the
American side.

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
Well, America, I don't think no, no, I don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:18:20):
That's really front page news over here.

Speaker 1 (01:18:23):
There's been a couple, but I don't think you've got
the right crop. I mean there was, yeah, you see
like grass circles, but no, no, I've seen them. There's
been a few. Yeah, but then this is another thing.
You got to remember, we have tourists making them. They
come over here, they learn the ropes, and then they
go and we go. That's funny that that decides in France. Now,

(01:18:45):
I wonder we've got that idea from Oh he was
out with.

Speaker 3 (01:18:47):
Us last I heard that one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:18:55):
Not to go political, just because it's a funny story,
but one of the people in the French parliament was angry.
One politicians, and he said he was demanding that we
return the statue of liberty, so give it back. I
think the response was no, if you want to bag
take it, come get it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:11):
You've already got one.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
It's great, it's great. Now you don't want it great, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
You don't want it back. It's all old and she's
all messed up. Don't talk to this guy about Yeah,
I just don't care.

Speaker 2 (01:19:23):
I just don't care. His philosophy is I buy the ferrari,
drink the beer and whatever. It's all going to burn anything.

Speaker 3 (01:19:29):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:32):
Have you had any other you know, obviously you've had
some things happen while you're in the fields, but if
you have you had anything other supernatural happened to you
outside of that, And has it increased since you started
doing this stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
Oh that's a great one. Yeah, nothing tangible. Well you
could you get synchronicitis? Well, I'll tell you that really
stress thing. I just write in my substat this is
really weird. I'm gonna get to player, okay. And I
was at home once and I was just fiddling about

(01:20:06):
and this riff fell fell out, fell out onto the
fell out on the threat board. I thought, that's that's
a cool riff. That's cool. Never heard that before. Maybe
I wrote it. Went to the supermarket, guys. It's playing
in the supermarket ten minutes later, twenty minutes later, and
it was a one hit wonder. It wasn't like a
popular song. It's like this like but I listened to

(01:20:26):
the lyrics and I thought, oh god, that lyrics, that's
that's that'd be a great idea for a crop circle.
And then I saw the crop circle in my mind.
I knew exactly what to look like. And then this
song would not leave me alone. And it was about
It was a nineteen seventies song, and it wasn't like
it had been like remixed or like rehashed for a
new film. It was like this nonentity of a song.

(01:20:48):
Suddenly it was like that film where everywhere you go
there'd be pensions behind me on the bus whistling it.
It was everywhere. It would come up on a quiz night,
and I they only want to gets it everywhere, this
song already again again again, always only me. And in
the end I relented. I say, all right, I get
the message. I'll do the circle. Okay, enough, already all right.

(01:21:11):
And the thing with this situation is you've got to
look back and say, right, pretend you're a skeptic, and
pretend you're a scientist, and look at the stats. Is
it still weird? Yeah, it's really weird. And then I
said enough already, I'll make the bloody circle. I've got
a team together. We made the crop Circle. I have
not heard that record again to this day. It was

(01:21:31):
like Okay, done, you work, it's gone. So yes, you
do get synchro initiative that follow you home, or they
happen before you go into the fields. I know of
a crup circle maker that said that he felt he
was being watched in the field and he said, I
didn't feel safe at home for the next few days.

(01:21:54):
He said, I felt as if it was there. And
we had a situation once, this is a really weird one.
We made a crop circle. We all had the feeling
as if there was another member in the field. We
couldn't put our fingers on it, but there was something
like we were looking around thinking is that five of
us or six of us or that, or like you'd say,
well there's five of us, let me count them one, two, three, four, five,

(01:22:16):
Oh that's good. No, may that's six. You know, it's
something strange happens. It's like an alterator. It's like an
alteration of reality. And then the next day we were
walking in that crop circle and I was with a
relative and when we were walking around it, you've got
the crunch, crunch, crunch of the corn. Every time we
stopped crunching, there was just like another crunch behind us.

(01:22:39):
Is if it's like this bad stalker. You're like mirroring
our footsteps, you know. And I said to my cousin,
I said, are you hearing that as well? There's something
when we walk it follows. So we walked, then it
goes and then we stopped, like you know, like you're
seeing in like private eye films or something. And then

(01:23:01):
she said, no, you're not imagining that. And she was
a skeptic, which is a really good place to be.
I like to speak to skeptics as paranormal stuff. Was
strange to have his happening. And she says no. And
then we both saw this shadow projected across the crop,
a human figure, and it was opaque nearly. Of course.

(01:23:23):
The first thing we do is look behind. There's no
one there, and that's when I said, I think it's
time for us to go now. But what was interesting
about that particular circle was that, and this is an
interesting point. I went there and took my relative out
of ego. Okay, so I look what we did last night.
It was brilliant. And then the second you do that,
it's like saying no, your place. It's like this is

(01:23:47):
supposed to be done, not for us. It's supposed to
be done with good intent. It's not about ego or
big headedness or look what I've done. So that was
strange because it happened after the event. But you only
get stuff at home that's related to synchronouss of the dreams, really,
which is preparing for you to go into the fields later.
That's my experience anyway.

Speaker 3 (01:24:08):
How often do you have these dreams, normally.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
Way before the beginning of the season, and then what
will happen is you'll get a reminder dream before and
you go, I think I've dreamt that before. And what's
really interesting when I had that dream where it was
the part of Wiltshire that I didn't recognize. I've been
dreaming that for years, that part of Wiltshire. I thought, well,
it's not wheelchair. I know Wilshire at the back of

(01:24:36):
my hand. That's nowhere near the sites. And then I
take a side road and it opens up in this
expanse and it's there. So I don't tend to get
the dreams too much before season starts, But then there's
a regidual effect of season finishes in September and you

(01:24:57):
still feel like you've there's still strangeness, is like it's
like it's still there with you, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Yeah, do you have anything weird that's happened in your
sleep that you've you've noticed?

Speaker 1 (01:25:10):
How do you mean? What do you mean, like.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Anything other than you know, like maybe having a visions
or dreams, or have you had anything else weird that's
happened in the middle of the night in your sleep?

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
Or when when I was younger, I used to have
the old hack thing, you know, the thing that's on
your chest, you know, and then you think is that
you know? And you wake up and it's still See.
I've had I've had paranox I've had paranormal experiences all
my life. And as I said, she we're not special.
But I just wonder if it sometimes targets that, you know,

(01:25:45):
I did have a situation once. Have you found I
had a situation once which is this is really as
a child, you know, you get the dreams, you have
the out of body experiences, and and you know, you
feel as if you're looking down on yourself. I had
this dream where I felt like I was looking down
at myself and it was so vivid. Guys, It's like

(01:26:06):
that's not a dream. It's like I looked around, and
my room is exactly as it is a normal life.
And then I scraped in my dream, I scraped across
the wall to try and get back. And then I
woke up and I thought that was I was only
a kid, I was about ten. I thought that was
too much. And then I looked at the wall and

(01:26:28):
I had a poster and there was a big tear
across the poster and I realized that that's where I
was trying to come back. But that happened years before
I was. I was interested in this stuff, but my
mother was. I had a relative who was into spiritualism.

(01:26:50):
So I've always had this latent. I've always had this interest,
always had this interest always, And when I started to
hear the stories of strangeness, I was as surprised as
a skeptic would be, because I could say, well, that
relates to that and that yeah, so yeah, it just do.

Speaker 2 (01:27:06):
You find that's a common theme with the Europeans.

Speaker 1 (01:27:10):
Again, We've got to go back to what's the real
circle and what's and what's what's not a real circle.
So the people that I know that do it for art,
none of them, okay, or they relate the odd you know,
the odd instance that they that they can't explain. But
for those of us that are really into it, we
tend to report more. Of course, the skeptic would say,

(01:27:32):
and that's because you're you know, you're making it up,
or because you're just like reading too much into it.
But I don't know. The people that I know that
are sort of more spiritually active, if you like, we
do tend to report more stuff than the people that
do it for art.

Speaker 4 (01:27:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
Interesting, Yeah, I think that same thing too. You know,
like my my mother was very gifted when it came
to abilities, you know, to be able to you know,
perceive things and kind of just naturally more gifted that way.
And you know, biblically speaking, obviously, that's where our show
comes from. You can see it very clearly written in
the Bible that you know, we're all giving spiritual gifts

(01:28:08):
of some kind. It's just a matter of how we
use them, how we And I think maybe some of
this for you is like that's why that's this is
happening more often, is because you're It's like anything, you know,
if you if you go to the gym all the time,
you're going to get stronger, you know, if you're using
that particular muscle, and in this particular case, like a
spiritual muscle. If you will ability, then you're going to
get stronger and then you're going to get more attuned.

(01:28:28):
So I think maybe that's what you're experients.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
With respect And I really do try. As I said,
whenever I step out of line and do something for ego,
that's when the they're not they're not good.

Speaker 3 (01:28:37):
Yeah, the boogie boogies.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
It's like it's like it's like, say, it's like a
head master signed to this naughty kid. You know, I
just watch what you did. If that's what it goes like?

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Yeah, wow, Well, thanks man so much. This has been
a great conversation, very yeah, very enlightening and very very curious.
It's been something that I guess over here for for us,
it's been something that it was bigger when we were kids.
It was more of a phenomenon. But we skip right
over there and go right to right to the aliens.
Now is where we go typically.

Speaker 3 (01:29:08):
Now I want to try to make one what kind
of hookie book is you can get? I love seeing
them that the geometric shapes. That's just amazing to me
that they they do this. You know and how they
have it all planned out. I've always wanted to.

Speaker 1 (01:29:30):
The first one, the first one I ever did, as
I said it was it was a two stage event,
and that most of the work we've done before week
before we went back because they've run out of time.
And before I went into the field, I said to myself,
there is no way. What are they doing to what
are the shortcuts? You know? How are they doing this?
And then I saw how it was done. And then

(01:29:51):
the next day there was a new crop circle somewhere else,
so I drove to devisors to see it, and I
was looking at it with new wise I couldn't do it,
but I knew how it was done, so I'd say,
well that bit there, A skeptic would say, because the
other thing I say is this unless you've actually gone

(01:30:11):
to physically watch it being done or made one yourself,
I don't really see how you can be an expert.
You know, a crop circle maker that I know says,
he says, I install I install boilers for a living,
but I'm not really going to speak to anyone that
can't pull one apart and put it back together again.
So sometimes you'll see how do they get in that bit. Well,

(01:30:36):
it's because they're not using a meet board, they're using
square boards. And then you realize you can mentally see
how it was done, but it's not not to say
the conception and the idea you go, that is jeez,
you know, to even even that on paper is amazing,
you know. And they're very humble. I've spoken to like
the big guys, the best. I was going to say,

(01:30:57):
I was going to say the best of the business,
but no one's getting paid for this, and they are
completely humble. They've got nowheares. There are absolutely some One
maker I note was doing it because he had missing
time as a kid, and he was he's trying to
connect with whatever it was again. And others say, well,

(01:31:18):
I do it for art, but I've had strange things
happening to me and I've had you know, you get
back to the to the puppet master again. You just
don't understand. And Jay Annon Heinek, who's the godfather of euthology, said,
even if we had the answer for youuthology, even if
we had the answer, we're not sophisticated enough even to

(01:31:40):
understand it. I don't think we'd understand it. If we
were giving it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:45):
Yeah, well again, man, thanks, it was a great conversation today.
If you want to find out more about d and
read more about what he's got going on again, I'm
sure we've always scratched the surface today based on all
the years of what he's been doing. This is you
want to go over to his blog, it's it can't
be people dot substack dot com, so it can't include

(01:32:05):
the apostrophe, be people altogether dot substack dot com and
you can actually read more about him. Well, do you
hang in there for a second. We're gonna ahead and
close out the show, but we want to give you
a proper goodbye after we get everything shut down, just
between you and so we.

Speaker 3 (01:32:19):
Appreciate you coming on, brother, it means a lot, absolutely, man.
We'll hang on for a quick second after we shut
everything down, and we'll, like I said, we'll give you
a proper goodbye offline here. Once we get shut the
feet off, you can stay in the room here and
we'll have our talk here in.

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
Just a second.

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
But all right with that, we will bid you all
the do until next time. On the foil take care,
I'll tell you

Speaker 4 (01:33:01):
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