Innocence Shattered | Dismantling The Insidious War Against Our Children - The Word At War

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The church is harboring this dirty little secret of their
recreational use of bornography because leaders and church attendees may
not realize that every click, every view, with every watch
is fueling an industry creating the demand for paid for
sex with children, and with prostitutes and with slaves. How

(00:26):
does porn do all of that? How is it not
this clean, contained, little private activity that takes place on
a computer because it normalizes exploitation, evil power dynamics, where
now control must be executed over someone else. It's no
longer interesting just making love to someone. You have to
control them. You can see this is a Luciferian slippery slope.

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Welcome to the war room. I'm Kyle. Thank you so
much for joining me once again on the word at war.
The enemies and powers of darkness continue to wage a
non stop spiritual war against us on multiple fronts and
multiple levels. This is especially true when it comes to
the most innocent among us. Children. Abused, neglect, and sexual

(01:20):
exploitation are all wicked tactics employed by the enemy to
fracture and destroy the minds of God's most precious creations.
Joining me to talk about this today, and most importantly,
what we can do to fight against this is my
friend Joe Horn. Joe is the CEO and host of
SkyWatch TV, best selling author, renowned speaker, and award winning

(01:42):
film producer, known for works like time Bomb, Unlocking Eden,
and his upcoming book and what we are going to
be discussing today Innocence Shattered, which exposes these dark realities,
challenges the church to awaken from passivity, and calls readers
to action. Joe, thanks for joining me.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
Brother, Hey Kyle, first, thanks for having me on the program,
but also for being brave enough to host this conversation.
It's not a popular conversation. Yeah, it'll find us out
a few times too.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Man.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you have. Yeah, a lot of
algorithms don't like it. You got to be careful what
you post to social media. I mean most of the
trailers want to get zapped or taken down. It's it's
tough to get it out there without feeling like you
have the censor or kind of kurt what you're saying
in terms of the language you choose. So no, I
appreciate it, and you've already told me we can remove

(02:33):
the mittens and let our claws out for this.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
One, indeed we can. Yeah, that's one of the things.
Just transparently, Joe and I prayed before we get started
that we are not going to hold back today. We're
not going to temper our language. We're not going to
worry about the algorithm, because ultimately, at the end of
the day, I feel like we serve a guy that's
bigger than any of the enemy's algorithm or whatever, you know,
he wants to do to try to suppress the language.

(02:56):
So we're suppressed the information. So we're gonna we're going
to pull that band aid off. We're going to shine
the light in all the dark corners. I think I
prayed that as well, and ultimately, at the end of
the day, you know, just a little bit of a
warning for everybody that's going to listen to this. It
is not going to be fun sunshine roses, teddy bears,
and puppy dogs. It's a dark topic. It's a really

(03:18):
spiritually draining topic, but a very important one because I
think that more than anything, the enemy loves to attack
all of us. But he knows because unfortunately he's smart
and has thousands, if not longer, years of knowledge on

(03:38):
how to wage spiritual warfare against us. He knows that
if he can destroyed children and destroy their minds and
get to us when we're young, he can poison the
roots of the tree. And so we're going to talk
about his tactics today and what we are seeing as
a result of those, and what we can do to
fight against that. So, you know, for Star, just to

(04:00):
kind of dive in a little bit and rewind. You know,
I know this is you know, a huge passion area
for you. You and I've gotten to know each other
pretty well over the last year, and there's a couple
of things on your heart that are our big key
areas of passion for you, but this is probably the
number one if I had to pick. And what for
you was the turning point there and what happened to you,

(04:24):
you know, kind of coming along that really just God
pulled your heart in this direction.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
So first, let me rewind to something you said and
then I'll give you your answer. Sure, I just want
viewers out there to know, yes, this is a very
difficult conversation, but there's a lot of hope and beauty
in talking about the solutions, So you know, buckle up
for sure, but also just know that in this interview,
we can also get into some of the wonderful things
that God is already doing in the lives of the

(04:50):
children that we're serving now as a family and as
a ministry at a place called Whispering Pony's Ranch, where
we offer rehabilitation and intervention for the kids that had
been pulled out of sex trafficking and some really dark
nightmare situations. So just again buckle up, but just know
that we've got some really beautiful things to also highlight
and unpacked, so it's not all just completely draining. To

(05:14):
answer your question, I was, like so many people that
I now identify are like I once was, Kyle, I
was your standard guy involved in ministry. I'm doing my thing,
I'm answering my call. I believe myself to be being
altruistic in my day to day I'm a father of

(05:35):
at the time too, and I specify the father of
just the two, because I'm going to reveal something about
the timeline in which God converted me into or maybe
a better way of saying it, as I began to
be obedient to what was an underlying calling, as he
began to clarify details about what my journey was supposed

(05:55):
to shift towards but I growing up thought I was
going to be a Christian blues musician. I put in
gazillions of hours. I wanted to be like a Christian
Stevie Ray Vaughan, or a Buddy Guy or a Gary
Moore for those that follow the blues you know exactly
what I mean. And I wasn't just paying lip service

(06:15):
to that. I was really working very hard. I put
many projects together. I'd played as the lead player for C. C. James,
who got to meet Derek Trucks and people with Clapton's team,
and opened at the Waterfront Blues Festival and big blues
towns like Portland, Oregon, right ahead of BB King and
some of the legends, and toured for a year with

(06:36):
some of the guys from the old Steve Miller band.
And you know, was really peripherally working this idea to
kind of elevate myself as a blues musician, and was
doing it kind of under the guy's as ministry, but
was trying to I'm just going to say it now.
I don't think I would have said this at the
age of twenty twenty one, two three twenty four, which

(06:56):
is when this is really hitting a peak, which sadly
and I hate to admit my age to date myself,
this is like twenty years ago now, Kyle, when.

Speaker 2 (07:05):
I started more.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, I could be closer to twenty five years if we're.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
About that.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
But back then, you know, I had started in my
early teens. I mean, I'm a ravenous guitar player. I'm
working the chops. I'm trying to, you know, mimic every
great player on VHS tape and pause the video and
rewind like Stevie ray Vaughan and learn every chop I could.
And so there was a lot of devotion. I wasn't
just paying lip service to it. I was trying really hard.
My Christian model was going to be that I'm going

(07:34):
to go out where real people are. I'm going to
go to the clubs. I'm going to go to the bars.
I'm going to go where real people are, and I'm
going to be a light to them, to those that
would never darken the door of a church. That's what
I used to say. While that was sincerely my strategy,
I learned very quickly that mostly what was happening is
that the opportunities to evangelize or do meaningful gospel work

(07:55):
were nearly prohibited. The places that you're in are not
conducive at all to a one on one devotional after
half of the room is intoxicated and they're all wanting
to just dance to your blues music. So I'm playing
in secular blues projects. I'm trying to be an ambassador
for Christ. I'm very young, and by the way, for context,

(08:15):
I'm very jaded by the church. I'm very jaded by
the church, and that's one of the reasons why I
don't want to resemble the church. So i go back
to my early twenties and I'm thinking to myself, I
want to get out there in the world and do
something meaningful for God. My intentions were correct, but without
life experience, I have no idea how to make that
manifest and meaningful ways. Mostly what's happening is just one am,

(08:39):
you know, exhausted, carrying amps to you know, not conferences,
concerts and festivals and things like that, the next gig,
the next gig, and I come home. Now my wife
and I We've got this little baby named Kate who
is at the time like one and two years old,
And I get burned out of the road and live

(09:00):
out of a suitcase really quick. So I go through
a season of life where now I'm just doing businesses
that I own and I'm making income, and I'm kind
of in between ministerial efforts. In the early twenty teens,
my parents start founding two things want a place called

(09:22):
SkyWatch Television and another place called Whispering Ponies Ranch. And
at the time, this was not a master plan to
make the TV show work in tandem with this other
charitable ministry called Whispering Ponies Ranch. They were both just
acts of obedience. My mom primarily the one the visionary
for how horses might have some therapeutic benefit to children.

(09:43):
She doesn't yet know what those children are going to
be up to at the time that this thing launches.
She doesn't know where they're going to be coming from.
She doesn't know what ministries were going to partner with. Meanwhile,
my dad, being obedient in his calling as an author,
had gotten kind of tired of other ministerial platforms rejecting
his book premises. It's too hot for TV, they said,

(10:04):
or it's too obscure, or the mainstream church wouldn't accept
you know you out here trying to walk us through
looking through a biblical lens to comprehend or understand the
arrival of aliens, like you're looking at you know, you
got to realize this is in the late nineties for context.
Is this makeing sense? No? Yet? You know today you

(10:24):
can go online and there's you know, any number of
your own hand picked cherry pick selections on learning about
a nephlum or a ufo through the lens of the Bible.
But some of that is because of pioneers like my father,
doctor Thomas Horn, and people like La Marzouli and Steve
Quail and Russ Dizdar and Mike Kaiser that came along
and said it's okay for the church to have these conversations.

(10:46):
But going back to the nineties, there's no place for
a Tom Horn. So he's kind of exhausted in that
he wants his message to be received and the only
people that'll talk to him are people like Art Bell,
massive programs that see him almost as an opportunity to
put a crazy preacher on the radio for callins and

(11:07):
shock value responses and stuff, and he's still doing it.
He's like, I don't care. I'll talk to these people
and I will share the love of Christ, and they
can answer. You know, they can ask me all their questions,
and I, as a surrogate and an ambassador of the Lord,
will do the best I can to talk to the
world about these things because the Church has no interest.
So in a way, I'm also telling you the origin

(11:29):
stories of Defender Publishing, yes, which you and I have talked,
and you know this. My dad ends up founding Defender
Publishing because he's tired of books being rejected that he
feels or timely and the world is beginning to ask questions.
He was so far ahead of his time. He would say,
the world is going to start asking the following questions,
and usually within less than a decade, the world would

(11:51):
be playing catch up and they'd be asking the questions
that his books showed up many years ahead of time
to answer. And so my dad never considered himself a prophet.
He never called himself a prophet, but he had a
prophetic mind, his instincts, his discernment. He could read a
room and go, you know, I'm pretty sure the world
is going to gain a curiosity about this or that,

(12:11):
And he would show up ahead of time with a
book that kind of flushed it out biblically, and he
would always take on the things that, again, the conventional
entertainment based church had no interest in, and he noticed
that a lot of people would start to respond to
those works and those radio broadcasts. It costed him, by
the way, a lot, and the conventional denominations that he
was serving, it costed him a lot of fanfare, and

(12:33):
the conventional entertainment based church circles, the presbytery that he
once held lots of clout with in the denomination that
he served were seeing him as nuts and he just
didn't care at all. Kyle, he went the way of
fully embracing his cult.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
He did what God put on his heart.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
He did so he's now founding in the late nineties
and early two thy teens, both Defender Publishing and then
SkyWatch Television as a response to a wanting to be
able to publish books that he felt like God wanted
him to write. And there's a bunch of other stuff.
If you really want nuggets that I have never talked

(13:12):
about Kyle, that are exclusive to your audience, I will
also tell you that the first two books that he
wrote through another publisher, and I won't name names, you
can go do your own research. But they ended up
not paying him a substantial amount of royalties. It would
have been enough to pay off a mortgage in royalties
based on the popularity of his books. They were using

(13:34):
his books to underwrite the expenses of other departments, other employees,
and we would later learn they were hemorrhaging cash and
were using his books to try to buy time, and
they eventually went out of business. So, you know, from
every angle my dad from not being compensated for what
it was that he had put out, from a business standpoint,

(13:56):
from a ministerial standpoint, being exhausted with other people telling
him know, he just got to where he was motivated.
Let's just say that to start a TV program in
a publishing house. Okay, I am now in roughly twenty twelve,
twenty thirteen, twenty fourteen, I'm still kind of coming out
of the music scene. And now I'm just a father

(14:16):
and now I have got two children, and my parents
start founding this place called Whispering Ponies Ranch where they
have every intention of working with and ministering to children
that have been pulled out of sex trafficking wards of
the state. The foster care and God had used this
season of twenty five years ago when I'm in my
young twenties working at a place called Camp Davidson with

(14:39):
an organization called Royal Family Kids who did this ministry
as kind of a seed that we never forgot about.
So here we are twenty five years later, and we've
never forgotten the impact of seeing Jesus Christ show up
in a camping program for kids that have special needs
that are wards of the state, and you know, Child

(15:01):
Services has had to intervene and pull these kids out
of abuse and stuff like this. What God can do
when he shows up the Holy Spirit, What he can
do when therapeutic programs fail. Man made therapeutic programs fail.
And so there's this convergence of events if you really
want the origin story behind where I went from kind

(15:22):
of hiding from my true calling to then fully embracing
the inevitable. And here it is. It is now roughly
twenty thirteen and Opel Singleton, who's a child advocate. She's
an expert in grooming. She's written books. She goes around
the country and she talks to people about what it
looks like when children are becoming groomed, what the process

(15:45):
is how these hookers end up in forced prostitution when
society judges them for, you know, a lack of positive
life decisions. And then you find out a lot of
these young girls and boys are victims of a circumstance
they never would have signed up for, and societies like, well,
they're getting what they get, you know, what a sleeze.

(16:05):
Why don't you go to a homeless shelter. You know,
we're very very very cynical, very judgmental, very hateful, even
to the ugly parts of society, which, of course, as
you read in Matthew, is completely the part of society
that Christ instructs us to prioritize, not overlook.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
You know, what you do to the least of these
is how I will judge you.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
The orphans and the widows. We make it about fog
machine riddled rock concerts at our church. We make it
about programs that titilate and entertain the adults. We've moved
away as a society from programs that prioritize children. You know,
we're in the Bible Belt of Missouri, and a ton
of the churches have no focus on kids at all.

(16:47):
Most churches have done away with programs like Royal Rangers,
like I grew up, which for those unfamiliars, like a
Christian version of the Boy Scouts. You learn how to
build campfires and survive and memorize scripture verse and say money.
I was in a Wanawanas Yeah, very similar, I wanas
I understand as boys and girls, yep, yeah, but they're

(17:09):
teaching you life skills and how to be productive and
the assemblies of God. When I grew up, had a
program called Missionets. This was kind of like Girl Scouts
for Christian girls. You know, they learn penmanship and how
to sew and how to clean and how to cook
and you know, be productive. So most churches have no

(17:29):
interest at all in these programs anymore. And we're going
to get into society and the shift and we can
get into some politics and get it all that. But
to finish up my origin story, it's twenty thirteen and
Opel Singleton comes on SkyWatch Television and it just grips
my heart. Man, and I am kind of at this time.
You got to realize I have a professional dog training business,

(17:50):
and I've told you this, and people like wait, wait, wait, wait,
hang on time. A lot of people don't know that
I'm also a holist, you know, board certified holistic health practitioner.
Like wait, pick an identity man, what are you? A
blues guitarist, a health practitioner, also just martial arts for decades.
Anything I could do with my hands, I would go
like ady, H D, O, C D all the way
to an eleven, you know, and and go all in

(18:13):
whatever it is as long as I could. A I
wanted to learn it, and B I could do it
with my hands. I like to you know, dog training
it's movements, it's body language, it's reading a room. It's
understanding the underlying root cause of where the dog's anxiety
is coming from. It's trying to fix the human problem
in the house that's contributing to the dog problem. Funny enough,

(18:35):
most of dog training is working with the people, but
we're not talking about that today. This is where my
head is. I'm a dog trainer. It's a very successful business.
It is. It is one million percent draining all of
my time, and it's becoming a giant area of passion.
And so I've got this duality of both my own

(18:55):
personal ambitions. I want to be a dog trainer. I
produced a DVD you can go to Amazon right now
see this much heavier version of Joe Horn as a
dog trainer. There's a DVD on Amazon right now called
The Natural Dog Training Method. My brain is not I'm
gonna host SkyWatch TV. I'm going to be the CEO
of this or run Defender Publishing. My brain is literally

(19:16):
conditioning my father to get ready for the fact I'm
leaving the ministry. People think it was always just built in.
I'm my father's son. My dad is seeing a protege
gonna He's gonna raise me up to take over the kingdoms.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yes, I have molded to your son for that time. No,
none of this has happened for the takeover some days.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yes, someday the mantle will be there. Was literally none
of this has happening now. Yeah, my dad fully understands
that I've got my own businesses and I'm leaving. Yeah,
and my passions aren't with SkyWatch TV. This is back
in twenty fourteen where they're starting their first inaugural year.
My dad's doing this thing. I even encouraged him, just
for fun. I even encouraged him before he started SkyWatch

(19:58):
TV not to do it the very thing that I
am now the CEO of I told him, Dad, don't
do this thing. It makes no sense. You. He couldn't
shake the feeling that God was calling him to start
this ministry, even though what was ironic was he knew
that he wasn't going to be with it for all
of time. He was looking at his own mortality in

(20:19):
his age and so like none of us. And so
I said, Dad, you're going to end up with this
ministry that's so big. You're going to have people, you know,
wringing your cell phone off the hook day and night.
You're going to have fifty employees. And I said this.
I said, you're going to be in a retired Walmart
building somewhere with books wall to wall. And you're laughing

(20:39):
because you've seen the warehouse, Kyle, And you know, other
than the fact that it wasn't a retired Walmart, it
was a retired grocery store that became the Defender Publishing
you know, dispatch warehouse where they're doing all their own
fulfillment and distribution. Anyway, everything I said came true.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
By the way, the moral of the story is to
be careful which you speak, because someday you will own it.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
No, that's right, right, I've often said, I've often said
everything I said ended up being kind of prophetic, even
though I'm not a prophet at all. But there was
one key twist. It wasn't my dad's cell phone that
was ringing off the hook. It ended up being mind
by the time SkyWatch was really getting its legs and
becoming what it is today, which, by the grace of God,

(21:23):
this is not me flexing at all. This is me
giving him credit for absolutely every blessing that that ministry
receives through the support of people that watch that program.
That ministry is in two hundred million homes worldwide. Now
with the recent signing of a contract for the Word Network. Yeah,

(21:44):
I mean, what God started just barely over a decade
ago has blown up into It's an opportunity that we
can get into in a minute. I will. I will
parse my stories out at least into chronological order.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Before the next part of our discussion. If you guys
are enjoying this show, check the description to get your
copy of the book Innocence Shattered and support Joe today. Also,
if you want to help support me, I would really
appreciate it, like subscribe, follow, and share. If you feel
I'm deserving of it, and you listen to the show
on Apple, Spotify or wherever that is, please make sure
that you leave me a five star review. Also, if

(22:20):
you'd like to be part of a healthy, supportive, non
algorithmically controlled community of believers, I'd love for you to
join my school community. Check the description for the link
to join today. Your dad never got to meet him, obviously,
it just didn't work that way. And since I've backed

(22:42):
into all this space, it's been very I've learned about
him kind of through you in reverse, which is not
the normal path for people. But I will say this,
the man is after my own heart in the fact
that he believed in the concept of no risk it,
no biscuit.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
Joe Oh Kyle, no risk it, no biscuits. It is
a funny, little anecdotal way to frame it. But if
you unpack what that means to you and I, as
we've talked about, that analogy is profound. It is it
is sometimes you need to read a room and know
when to fold them, to hold them or play them.

(23:16):
And my dad had this impeccable anointing to be able
to kind of measure out risk and kind of imagine
mitigating that risk if things don't go well, putting his
cards on the table, and then God would just nourish
and bless and elevate. And one of the reasons why
I believe that is my dad was always very humble,

(23:36):
and he always gave God credit for everything. You couldn't
You couldn't tell him how incredible he was without him
kind of parrying or dodging, or he got uncomfortable. If
you know, people wanted books signed, and oh, Tom, Tom,
it's I can't believe I'm getting to meet you. He
was like, Okay, okay, anyway, it's it's the early twenty teens.

(23:59):
I am training to I have a meeting with my father,
and I say, Dad, I love you. I can't do both.
You know. My passions are with this dog. I got
this DVD that was doing really well. It really was
back then. People weren't so much running to YouTube, even
just a decade ago for dog training. The DVD still
had a very viable marketplace, and I was meeting people.

(24:19):
I was meeting people in the pet sphere. My stuff
was being featured in magazines. Could you could you could
see God blessing that you could see you could see
that the money was there, that the joy was there,
and it was working. And then I thought, for sure
God had answered my prayer about which one of these
directions to choose between the responsibility of helping my father

(24:42):
manage and maintain SkyWatch TV, because that was my involvement there.
I was, I was doing some of the editing. Was
I was his warehouse manager. They called me the chief
of operations or you know, ce COO, chief over operations,
and I was managing staff. And this is what I'm saying,
Like my brain was there to help my father, but

(25:04):
it was dreaming this completely other direction. And my friend
Darren Papa's who had been known for like twenty years
in the Branson, Missouri area as the dog guy. He
was called the Branson dog Guy. He had posters up
in pet stores the Branson dog Guy. Darren Papas I
threw a series of coordinated moments that I believe to

(25:26):
be God ended up connecting with him. We made friends
very quickly. I studied under him and learned a lot
more about dog training. He opened my eyes to things
and he says, Joe, I'm moving to California and I'm
giving you my black Rollo decks I'm basically handing my
business to you. Twenty years of clientele, very successful people

(25:51):
with multiple dogs, that have money, that just want the best.
And I said, Darren, I'm not you man, I can't.
You're the guy. I was only in it for a
couple of years, thought, oh my goodness, I'm not ready
for this. But he said, no, man, trust me, You've
got it. And out here and he looked at the landscape.
He's like, you're the guy. I mean, right now, you're
going to be the guy. So he gives me this
black rolodex of all of his names, and I start

(26:12):
getting calls out the wazoo Kyle, and I take this
as confirmation that I'm on the right track and that
I am meant to now go to my father and
say it's time for us to part ways ministerially. You're
always going to be my dad. I love you. I'll
do what I can peripherally, but I'm doing this dog
training thing and I'll never forget. And I have never
told this story ever. So here's another total word at

(26:35):
war exclusive. My dad sits back in his chair and
he looks up at the calendar, and he looks at
his post. He is to keep post it notes all
over the monitor of his computer. He was very old
school that way. He didn't like technology. And he said, son,
we can do that. And we looked at the next
eight weeks and he said, I'm not sure over the
next eight weeks with the way that the schedule is,

(26:57):
that we can afford to let you step out right
this instant. But let's look at the fall and then
I'll do everything I can. You got to help me
replace what you're doing down there. He was going to
help me be released so that I could go do
my thing. Now again, let's loot back to Opel Singleton.
During this whole you know, convergence of events, Opal Singleton,

(27:21):
the child Advocate comes on SkyWatch TV and she's talking
about how young children are groomed and how they're forced
into prostitution. And that is in my heart now and
I am having this wrestling match with God. He is
really starting to challenge my direction as a dog trainer.
I mean, on paper, it looked good, oh my goodness,
but internally I started to really second guess my calling.

(27:46):
And I will tell you I was completely invested in
the dog training thing, and I was hoping that I
was wrong I was kind of hoping to be relieved
with the sweet release to go back to dog training
with no concerns at all that maybe this other thing
was a calling, Like, Lord, let that just be something
I ate last night, maybe lack of sleep. Maybe I'm
called to pray for the kids. Yeah, but this is

(28:08):
not my calling. I'm almost telling God, but that's not
my God. You made me a musician, and I've got
this skill with dogs, and what was all that with
Darren and meeting the timing and you know, come on,
not looking for a sign, and it still pops up,
this wave after wave after wave of what looks like
evidence I'm on the right track. And then I'm visiting

(28:32):
Easter Sunday some of my dear friends Stan and Lynn
Williams church and what do they have? Low and behold
it's a child advocate from overseas. And I'm not going
to be specific about this because he said one of
his difficulties was trying to raise money for his ministry
without using the internet because he doesn't want the cartels
looking for where he's at to know what he's up

(28:54):
to and where he is. But he said, you know,
we're here because we need to raise money, and we're
over in this country pulling kids out of forced prostitution,
and it's very expensive and it's very dangerous, and we
have to you know, armaments, and the guys that are
walking around, he said, we literally have a facility that
most people would view as a prison. It's not to

(29:15):
keep kids in, it's to keep the bad guys out.
Concrete walls, you know, men walking around watching the grounds.
They're armed with them, sixteens and stuff. I'm like, well, okay.
And by the way, I recently went back and looked
his ministry up. The last time they posted was about
four years ago. And I don't know if that's because
they're not a ministry anymore. I suspect it's because the

(29:38):
risk of posting American social media was just not worth doing.
So I don't know where they're at today, but I
remember God used that again to slug me completely in
the stomach. I'm hearing about the atrocities that these kids
are dealing with, their shame cycles, how they control them mentally,
how they use substances to control less protest, to keep

(30:02):
them docile and subdued, and how young they expire. How
many years there these young people are expected to be
able to endure what's happening to them before they're dead.
It's a very short lifespan. And again I'm just like
a mule is kicking me in the.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Soul, and God's not get letting you get off the
hook that easy.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
No, because the Opal Singleton and then this was very
close proxy, it's like maybe a month. Lord, thank you
for sending them. I'm so grateful that you're sending surrogates.
This just can't be my calling. I mean, surely you
gave me my musical instruments. Surely you provided my dog

(30:43):
training business and my connections. They're sure you know you're rationalized.

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes, sure. Oh.

Speaker 1 (30:48):
And a couple of weeks later, back at the SkyWatch studio,
I kind of survived some of my feelings and I'm
getting back into the mindset that I'm on the right
track with dog training, and Tom Dunn mails me up
a DVD called Detestable. It's a brutal watch. I was
only able to make it through about three minutes, So Tom,
I love you. I never watched your movie, but the

(31:11):
fact that I had no threshold, I could barely survive
the trailer. There's a man weeping in the trailer and
he's describing what he's learned as he's looked into the
eyes of these children that have survived the occult, and
I'm like, nope, la la la la live' not doing this. Man,
not doing this. And Lord, I'm so thankful that you're

(31:32):
using Tom. Here we are again. And it was like
the Lord interrupted that prayer and he said, you know,
for all of your whining, you're not doing anything for
the victims of abuse. And I couldn't believe. I was
getting ready to say this, but in my spirit something
began to shift. And later that day I went home Kyle,

(31:54):
and I said to my wife. I said, Baby, you're
not going to believe this, but you know how I've
been building my dog training enterprise, and you know how
I'm getting money and how it's working, and the fact
that i'd kind of surrendered some of the music in
order to do that. You remember all that? Yeah, yeah, Okay.
She knew the answer, like she didn't know what but

(32:15):
she knew I'd given up on it, like something had shifted.
She's just waiting for me to tell her what it was.
And I said, I don't know what this means yet,
but I think God is saying, I am meant to
stay at SkyWatch and not only not leave, but crank
up my emotional investment, crank up my responsibility, not leave

(32:36):
my parents to go pursue these other businesses. I said,
there's a lot of me that doesn't want this at all.
I was hoping that I would believe this wasn't my calling.
But as I'm wrestling with God, I'm starting to see
it more as a need to surrender what I want
and to just be obedient to what he's asking me

(32:56):
to do. And I said, there's this child advocate angle.
I don't really know how this flush is out. I
said this at the time because it wasn't that long
after that I started. Because of my now desire to
want to help with children. God opened up this door
with a man named Yaku. Buyans to become friends with Yaku,

(33:18):
and he's a staunch child advocate and an expert in
how these trafficking rings work and what the church is
failing to do and all of that. He speaks, He's
been on Ted Talks, he's everywhere you can just his
name is not spelled the way you would hear it pronounced.
It's Jaco boy E n s. People think his name
is Jacob, but it's Yaku. Buyans. His sister was trafficked

(33:43):
by her record label in South Africa for many, many
years as a small child up until I believe the
age of thirteen. Don't quote me on that she was
very young when she finally fought with her handler, I
mean fought out drop dead, bite, kick, scream, punch, wail,

(34:05):
and by the grace of God at this hotel, was
able to escape the room where she was and there
just happened to be a Christian cop that was on
the floor that scared this handler off, and so she
had enough time to find her way out of it
and then of course later reunited with her family. But
the point is that's what motivated Yaku to become a

(34:25):
child advocateis because he didn't see his sister for years
as she was missing as a person that was being
handled by her record label in South Africa. So this
is very personal to him. Well, he comes to SkyWatch
TV to talk about his movie that, by the way,
you can watch right now on Netflix unless you've canceled
your Netflix like we've done. You can also find it
on DVD or elsewhere. A movie called Eight Days. I

(34:49):
also believe it's on Amazon Prime eight Days and it's
a story based on true life events having to do
it's ex trafficking. So he's really out there in places
like Hollyoo trying to raise awareness for this. Well, he
comes to SkyWatch TV because now I'm kind of warming up.
I know that I'm supposed to be a child advocate.
I'm going to stay with SkyWatch Television. I've talked with
my dad about it having something to do with children,

(35:11):
and we've talked about how Whispering Ponies Ranch might play
into that somehow.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
And you've got the pieces and the Kaponist all this,
but you're still not sure how everything's going to fit together.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Is a great example. Is like taking a puzzle and
kind of shaking it out on the table and you
start to put the first view together. You know you've
got them, but you don't know how they're going to
arrange yet. And they're still building Whispering Pony's Ranch. We
didn't start our inaugural year until I believe from memory.
Don't quote me on this twenty seventeen. You know it's
been six seven years now of ministry every year there,

(35:46):
so don't quote me on that, but I want because
COVID always throws me. We lost one year because of
COVID and then we lost one year because of an
insurance debacle. So my brain I got to go back
and actually fact check myself on what year exactly. Because
again I'm coming out of the dog training and I'm
helping administrate SkyWatch TV. But this place that my parents
are building, I'm not super involved there, but the intention

(36:07):
is for it to be a place of rehabilitation for
children to pull out of sex trafficking in the foster
care system, et cetera. Okay, so I've given God my yes,
I've rededicated my intentions to whatever it is that he
wants to do with my life. I've expressed this to
my wife, and now for now, I'm just at SkyWatch
TV producing television shows, building trailers for Defender books, helping

(36:28):
my dad negotiate network time slots. What I don't realize
is that I'm in life college training for what it's
going to look like when I don't have my father anymore.
And somebody from literally the carpet to the ceiling fixtures
needs to know how to arrange those moving parts. And
Kyle I will tell you there's nobody that could just
come down here today and jump in as CEO to

(36:51):
one of these businesses or ministries without a lot of time.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Probably, honestly, no exaggeration, Probably a year minimum, just to
know where all of the things under the hood of
the car are placed. It's complex. There's lots of bits
and parts, and a lot of it seems very simple
on the surface until you understand below that, below that,
below that, below that, way back, way back, way back,
and then you realize, Okay, infrastructurally small decisions could be

(37:20):
catastrophic in the long run. So there's a reason why
things exist the way they do. And I can just
tell you that because I've had others come along through
the last several years at SkyWatch Television and make suggestions,
and I can just tell that the way they're coming
into it, that it would take way too long to
explain why that would probably bankrupt the model of the ministry.

(37:40):
Does that make sense? Yeah, totally, you're very well, Yeah,
go ahead. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
No. One of the things that you and I've talked
about just in our friendship over the last year is,
you know, non understanding the complexities just of running a nonprofit.
You know, it's it's an extremely delicate and complex mixture
of things that you need to be very careful, especially
when you're in ministry, because you know the enemy is

(38:04):
just waiting for an opportunity to pounce at your throat
and rip it out like a lion, right, yeah, so
to make you die. So it's a very delicate balance
of things. So I definitely know it, and in talking to you,
I've learned a lot just to that time.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
No, and I hope that you know if there's anything
I can offer you as you continue to rise in media.
I mean, I'm so impressed with your show. Of course,
we're getting off track here if there ever was a track,
and I don't want to leave your audience from the
middle of this limbo called the answer to the question
what made me become a child advocate? But this will
be the only official record I've ever done. The longer

(38:40):
version of Anywhere is right here. It's because I'm not
pressed for time, and you've told me that we can
just relax and get into and unpack the stuff. So
for those that would ever be curious that were fans
of my father or have followed SkyWatch TV, they've never
heard this origin story. So I've told my dad, you
probably shouldn't start SkyWatch. I've tried to start my business
is it's working, and now I'm all the way back

(39:03):
and I'm committed, but I don't really know where all
of the pieces are going yet. Yakubuyans comes to do
his movie eight Days. This is roughly twenty fourteen, twenty
fifteen now, and I said to my wife at the time,
I said, I'm not a qualified child advocate. And what
I love about that admission is because I meant it
with all of my heart. I still look at other

(39:24):
people that are doing things and I say, I'm not
a qualified child advocate. And what I've found is that
a lot of the people doing this feel the same way.
And it's because of the size and scope of the dilemma.
The number of missing children from foster care every year
with no chain of custody, the number of kids that
are being abused in every unimaginable way. Now in the

(39:46):
United States, we can get into all this in a
little bit, but it's so big that no matter what
you offer, if you're objective, you'll stand back at the
end of the day and you'll say, technically on paper,
I'm not a child I'm not a qualified child advocate.
But God is asking for you to do what you
can do, and there is joy in finding the part

(40:07):
of it that you can do, to know that what
you're doing matters in the lives of children.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
I don't think it's by happenstance at all that we
have so many examples throughout scripture of people who have
felt the exact same way as you. You know, we
have Moses doesn't want to do, doesn't want to do
you know, yeah, right, you know, Gideon. I mean the
list is literally just about endless of that. And I

(40:38):
think that is not by happenstance, but for very deliberate
encouragement for those of us that get into this, because well,
I think one of the tactics too of the enemy,
for for anyone that gets in the ministry, you're going
to become you're going to come under attack, and the
more successful you are, the more attack you're going to encounter.
And one of the main things I think the enemy

(40:59):
loves to do is to make us think that we're
alone and we're not good enough. So everything you're you're
saying just rings so true. To what we see in
biblical example.

Speaker 1 (41:10):
I love the way that you buttressed what I said
with that, because I wasn't thinking that way. I wasn't
thinking I was an example of a Noah or anyone else.
I'm thinking, you know, Noah standing on the rooftop screaming
that that there's going to be rain and people laughing
at him. I'm sure he felt alone. I'm sure he
felt like his constituents viewed him as nuts. Yeah, And

(41:32):
a lot of what I deal with, it's like that,
I have to open every conversation with how far do
you want to go down? What a lot of the
secularized world would consider looney tune, tinfoil hat type stuff.
Missing kids from foster care surely the government. And then
then then they assigned some reality to the government that

(41:53):
they're already failing in or isn't possible if you actually
dig and you listen to their own words. The FBI,
because of hippo laws and privacy laws, a lot of times,
even when children die in custody within foster care, those
records are almost impossible to glean or gather or archive
or explore. Many of these kids are classified as runaway

(42:17):
and of course, now we're getting into the foster care dilemma,
which we haven't really opened up yet. We can get
to that in a minute, but just so that if
anybody is curious how this moment came to be, it
was not a one off. It wasn't a sudden prayer.
And then I was fixed and being my heart goes
from I'm a dog trainer to a child advocate and
I know what I'm going to do. It was a
series of a good couple of years, and I had

(42:38):
to start by saying, God, I'm giving you my yes,
and I don't know what that looks like. And it
meant to me, Kyle, that I was walking away from
what looked like financial stability. It looked like a permanent
walking away from something that was so awesome and so
my lane. I loved going into homes where dogs are
on the brink of being euthanized, talking about food, aggressive

(43:01):
great danes that weigh one hundred and eighty pounds and
they have a bite history, or the owners are concerned
they're gonna bite someone because they've snapped or something to
this effect. And I go into the home knowing there's risk,
but I can't explain to you, this would have been
like somebody else's version of jumping out of an airplane
to find their parachute. There was something in me that

(43:25):
felt engaged and present in the moment. And I absolutely
adore dogs. I love children, and I love family construct
and so for me, I hated people are in duress.
Dogs are in duress. Dogs are going to be destroyed
that are perfectly salvagable. You're just talking the wrong language.

(43:47):
Dog is doing this behavior because of XYZ. And as
soon as you understand where it's coming from, let me
come and take a look. I had a lot of
success that was kind of my thing. Is A lot
of it wasn't. I got bored with sit, stay down obedience.
You know, here's a treat in exchange for you laying
down for me. The ones that I thought are on
the brink of euthanizing, to me, I felt like I

(44:10):
was going in special ops, like a rescue mission. Does
that make sense?

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Sure?

Speaker 1 (44:15):
So I'm telling you there was a personal passion, But
I now have said, God, I don't feel called to
do that right now. I feel called to prioritize these
other things. So I had a tremendous passion for what
I was doing as a dog trainer, But again, I
felt like it was something God wanted me to surrender,
you know, And the fact that I loved it meant

(44:36):
that that at the time felt more like a sacrifice
to me made it more genuine because now I know
that I'm doing something I feel God has caught. You
ever felt that it's because you're giving up something that
you want so much that you take that as information.
It almost illuminates, even in more grander ways, that you're

(44:58):
stepping away from something you desire. It must be that
God is not letting you go on this thing that
he wants obedience from. At least that's how it felt
to me, and I frame it that way because I
don't want to be guilty of, Yeah, I made this,
you know, saying on radio, I made this big sacrifice
under the Lord, and aren't I the arbitrary of everything
righteous and bigger than my feelings? So at the time

(45:22):
I'm saying it, it felt like I was making a sacrifice.
I can tell you when you do that, if you're
obedient long enough, you start to see that what God
was really doing to answer your prayer in the first place.
When you say, God, use my life. He's going to
bring that back around. And I find enormously, indescribably, irrefutably

(45:44):
more value in what I'm doing now in ministry than
I did back then, even though at the time I
thought this was my life. I mean, this is who
I was built to be. Now I look back and
I think a lot of that was genuine at the
moment I felt that way. But it's so tiny and
I'm not I'm not minimizing dog intervention at all. I
really am. But when I think about the children that

(46:07):
I now get to work with, wouldn't trade going back
to build a dog training enterprise for one second. I'd
be missing out on the grandest opportunities I've ever seen. Yeah,
to do things that I actually care about. Does that
make sense.

Speaker 2 (46:21):

(46:43):
to join today. Absolutely, and like I said, it's all worthy,
it's all noble, and there's nothing wrong with it at all.

(47:06):
It's just it's all God's creation, right, and God cares
for all of God's creation. You know, one of the
beautiful things we can see in the story of Jonah,
even if you look at the very end, the last
thing God says is, you know, I don't want to
have to destroy these people, no matter how wicked they are. There's, however,
many people you know that are in the city that
don't know their right hand from their left, which more
than likely is probably talking about children. But then the

(47:27):
last thing he says is including all and even what
about all the animals? You know, he doesn't want to
destroy any of that. But ultimately it wasn't animals that
Jesus pulled to his side and said, you know, those
of you who lead any of these little ones astray,
it would be better for you to be still born
or have the millstone tied around your neck and thrown
into the depths of the sea than lead one of
these little ones astray. And so there's there's just a

(47:50):
higher calling there than it is with an animal.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Well, and I my daughter, she may work with both.
You know, she's a child advocate because she's also the
special the animal special encounters coordinator at Whispering Pony's Ranch.
And I would never disparage somebody if they're watching this
and they're out there at you know, the coastal lines
pulling birds out of oil spillage or cat rescue. I

(48:13):
agree with you. God has given us dominion over all
of his species and he wants for us to take care.
I'm talking about personal callings. And by the way, I
would say the same thing if you're not involved in
any of what we've talked about, and you're the janitor
of a church or a school teacher, as long as
you're placed where God has given you his commission to
be there, you're doing for the kingdom exactly what you

(48:33):
need to do. So this is not me disparaging you
or saying, you know, if you work at a clinic
that you know helps medicinally support you know, animals that
are on the brink of death that somehow that's not
as noble as what Joe Horn does as a child. Agree,
what I'm saying is Joe Horn was walking in something

(48:54):
that he wanted. God had a different calling for me.
That's the key.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
So this is not my lane versus your lane, your
specific brand of ministry versus mine. But I'm so thankful
that I made the sacrifice and laid down my company
because now I'm doing things that I care infinitely more about. Also,
you know, you can't tell what the future is going
to hold. My father passed away in twenty twenty three,

(49:23):
and if I had been let's say, out dog training,
I sincerely don't know now who is here to have
stepped into a lot of that, and it has been
the hardest thing that I have ever had to do. Kyle,
you've been my friend now for about a year. We've
talked like old friends. I've told you things that only
my mother knows, only my wife knows about how difficult

(49:47):
this current season is. In having stepped in for my
father on lots of fronts, from spiritual to financial to
just the pressures of being responsible for all the moving part.
I would say it has been a brutal season for
the last couple of years. I would also say that
every time I think we're about to get counted out

(50:11):
as a ministry or something's about to implode, God shows
up and rescues it in ways that I can't. This
is not my business acumen. This is not Joe Horn
learned a ton under his father and somehow salvaged the
model because he knows a bunch of stuff. My dad,
when he was in the ICU during the last eleven
days of his life, was saying things like now, I

(50:32):
always disputed this, but he would say, Joe, I think
the world has changed. I don't have the answers. It's
going to be you. I think he knew that he
may not go home, and I just kept saying, you know, Dad,
don't worry about business right now, don't worry about ministry.
Let's get you home. We'll get you straightened up, we'll
get you supplements, will take care of you. And he

(50:54):
never came home, but he was saying, even in the ICU,
the world has changed. I don't know if the old
model works anymore. You know, the old model being a
dynastic TV program where you offer a book for a donation.
Much of that doesn't work the way that it worked
at all, even just three years ago. And so you know,
people want content and if you provide for them, what

(51:16):
they can tangibly sink their teeth into is ministerial work.
And they believe that you are an extension of what
they care about. So taking the Gospel to the four
corners of the world is a huge priority for SkyWatch TV.
If people align with that vision, they're praying for you,
they're they're supporting you financially, they are buying into your ministry.

(51:41):
And so you know, we have moved a lot away
from and again I've not talked about this publicly at all.
Somebody from SkyWatch would have to hear me talk to you, Kyle,
even know that this has guided a lot of our
thinking over the last year. We've moved a lot away
from You know, if you if you make a donation,
you get this three book package and it is becoming more.
If you want to support the ministry, you know how

(52:01):
to do that. Here's a website. But let's just focus
on the interview. Let's get the content to edify Christ.
Let's get lives converted. We're living in the last days
the enemy knows that his time is short. Let's go
on the offense and preach, preach, preach, and not be
so focused on the offer. And if people are watching SkyWatch,
they're seeing that, whether they're taking a cognitive mental note

(52:22):
of it or not. And none of that is designed
to disparage the way that our previous generations did ministry.
It used to be that people really wanted your book package,
and so they would support your ministry that way, and
then because you're getting support, you're able to then turn.
My father gave away so much resource to the children.

(52:47):
And I am not going to be specific about that
because it was his personal business. But I watched my
father many, many times take what would be blessings from
above in the form of one of his books performing
really well, and he would turn around and just underwrite
ministry with it. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, So, anyway,

(53:08):
I know this isn't Joe Horn's stream of consciousness like
oral history of the family construct for the last decade,
it's kind of become that. But you asked what made
me a child advocate, and it wasn't a simple question
to answer. There was a process over time. When I
started saying yes to God, and now I'm the CEO

(53:29):
of SkyWatch TV. Even prior to my father's passing, I
got super interested, super engaged, and it started to make
a lot more sense why I had stuck around and
went all in shoulder to the plow, because there was
this convergence of organic support from people that watch SkyWatch
TV that want to know what's going on. It was
bring Pony's Ranch, and they want to sew into that,

(53:50):
and they want to know. We want to see b roll,
we want to see video, we want the updates on
what happened to the little kids this year. So now
SkyWatch TV does a summer campaign where we're raising money
to send kids to camp for this program, and then
we do a full post summer kind of a post
mortem where we tell you, here is exactly what flushed
out this year. And so it's a huge focus of

(54:13):
our ministry. It's the most fulfilling thing that I do.
We produced a six part television series if you want
to pivot now into what causes this massive crisis, because again,
foster care is a side effect of a spiritual problem,
a spiritual problem that the church impart is guilty for

(54:35):
aiding and a betting. You see, Kyle, the church is
harboring a dark little secret in this country, and it's
called porn addiction. We got to take a minute to
unpack this if you want to know what's causing all
of this damage, if you want to point at things
less generic than just fatherlessness and motherlessness, when you're looking

(54:58):
at an entire generation of children that are under complete
assault to brainwash them, to make them second guess every
God given construct that used to be healthy mindedness or
being raised with values, to appreciate your fellow human even
if they disagree with you, just just a basic sense
of moral obligation to respect the fact that others may

(55:21):
differ from you in the way that they look, the
color of their skin, without trending towards the elimination of
people that oppose you, because they're the opposers and you're
the oppressed, and they're here to eradicate your way of life.
If you want to look at layers and layers and
layers as you peel back the curtain on this thing. Yes,
you can generically blame all kinds of things, alcohol for

(55:45):
the father that batters his children. But one of the
things that I believe occupies. It definitely occupies probably one
of the most gravitous things that you could blame for
this that gets the least amount of discussion. Let's just
put it that way. To me, it's the elephant in
the room, and that's the porn industry. Many sociopaths, many murderers,

(56:07):
many rapists, of people living on you in jail cells,
living out life sentences. Most of them would admit that
at some point they share a commonality in that is
porn addiction, because it was the first place in life
where they started saying, yes, anything I can daydream, that's
where I'm going to take my imagination. The problem with
that is we were created to be submissive to a creator,

(56:30):
and we are never going to be satisfied until we
find out why God put us here, and then we
fervently at our own sacrifice serve that end. There might
be moments where you feel gratification for the thing that
happened under your watch while God gave you stewardship over something.
You may be proud of something that happened that you

(56:51):
can see the good end while you were on that journey.
But most of the effective ones, Kyle, you know this
it comes with hardship, it comes a challenge, it comes
with financial uncertainty. Sometimes there are medical prognosis that interrupt
your temporal feelings of joy or titillation. There's challenges, man.
Sometimes it's hard to do the right thing, to take

(57:13):
care of a family, to walk in faith when you
don't know for sure what tomorrow is going to bring.
And so when you say yes, I'm going to emotionally
and mentally entertain anything in the world that I daydream,
and there's no bumper rails, there's no boundaries, there's no rules.
I'm just going to satisfy my flesh in anything that

(57:33):
it wants. Most of these people would tell you that
pornography was one of the most effective catalysts and conditioning
their mind into that cycle looking for self gratification, appease
the flesh at the cost of anything or anyone else.
You start to objectify human beings and then reduce them

(57:54):
to nothing more than playthings. These are not people's daughters,
These are not people's mothers or sisters are human beings.
These are things that only exist to bring me pleasure. Yeah,
there's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (58:07):
There's no soul, there's no spirit, yeah, there's it's just
a it's just an entity for me to do whatever
I need to do with the complete dehumanization.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
That's right, And I use this often because people get
it really quickly. That old saying. If you give a
mouse a cookie, he wants a glass of milk. There's
no moment where you give a mouse a cookie and
he doesn't come back immediately for something else. You've just
trained him that there's going to be more. He's very unhappy.
If you cut off the gravy train, he's going to

(58:36):
move somewhere else and find it somewhere else. Anytime you
say yes to the flesh and then, like Ephraim, you
push the conviction of the Holy Spirit away or even
indulge in these industries in ignorance, your brain is still
under the same kind of neurologically induced hit that many
drug addicts experience. It's progressive. What made me excited yesterday

(58:59):
is utterly bored today, and now there's a progression. A
totally normal heterosexual male finds that he finds it erotic
to watch beautiful women enacting on camera what appears to
be consensual we'll just call it love making. After two
or three months, of that bored out of his mind,

(59:21):
his spouse bored out of his mind. And I'm not
going to articulate the varying ways that people end up
enacting this out, but I can tell you at the
bottom of this thing, it's progressive, it's dangerous. Peeping Tom's
turning too rapists. Eventually, when people have tried to titillate
and satisfy this inner sinful manflesh, this meat suit that

(59:42):
we're stuck in, when they find that there is no
possible way to satiate that with what they can simply
watch on a screen, they now have to act something out.
This becomes abuse. This becomes tormenting loved ones. This might
be that it's child in the home in proxy, or
a neighbor's kid, or someone down the street as a

(01:00:04):
young woman or a young boy. They're going to find
a way to enact this out. This is why child
abuse is at an all time high right now, even
though we're having a revival in this country. This is
why I say it's a dichotomous situation where you see
good rising and you see evil fighting to maintain control.
At the same time, Satan has not given up at all.

(01:00:26):
This battle is not over at all. Revival is only
just begun. We need to be very focused in now
what our offense is going after. There's no satiate, a
way to satiate the flesh. It is progressive, it is dangerous.
And the thought that you would ever achieve satisfaction through
watching pornography or enacting out any day dream that you

(01:00:48):
can possibly construct is to only be a part of
becoming a monster. And I've had people push back on it. Well,
now I have people use porn for years. What are
you talking about? And I said, no, not not when
you see the side effects of where this go. I
think it makes people better at masking who they're becoming.
And why do you think that is when every time
well we had no idea and the newspaper breaks, or

(01:01:10):
little Tommy was touched by a neighbor. Most of the time,
the narratives, we never saw it coming. Not that guy
he did cookies for the church fundraiser. What are you
talking about? He was the school driver, the bus driver,
what do you talk he was a pastor what are
you talking about? So why is this becoming the churches problem?
We're going to get into that right now. The church

(01:01:33):
is harboring this dirty little secret because of their recreational
use of pornography, because leaders and church attendees may not
realize that with every click, with every view, with every watch,
they have no idea how that is fueling an industry
that is creating the demand for paid for sex with

(01:01:53):
children and with prostitutes and with slaves. How does porn
do all of that? How is it not this clean, contained,
little private activity that takes place on a computer. Because
it normalizes exploitation. It's that slippery slope we just described
evil power dynamics, where now control must be executed over

(01:02:18):
someone else. It's no longer interesting just making love to someone.
You have to control them. Pretty soon, Kyle, even though
you've said let's be uncensored, it goes to dark places
too sinister to even unpack. In a program like this,
where the screams of suffering become the only way that
some of these people can find a momentary and fleeting

(01:02:39):
moment of erotic Yes, that make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
It does. Unfortunately, I mean, anybody that's looked into this
topic in the least little bit because it's a dark thing.
Especially you know, you've made a very clear connection which
nobody can argue, I don't think between pornography, abuse and
the dehumanization that comes with you know, psychosis and these
things a serial killer or a murderer would eventually get

(01:03:03):
involved with. And ultimately, you know, you have other things
too that pattern wise start to happen, the experimentation on animals,
you know, the the murdering of animals, and this right,
ultimately it's the dehumanization occurs in the mind, and it's
almost like you become dehuman yourself in the process of

(01:03:26):
dehumanizing other people. And it's like you swing the door
open wider and wider and wider for Satan to have
more and more of a foothold in there and drive
out all the light and only leave darkness.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
And we could get into AI. What you just said
is completely correct. I will for the sake of being thorough,
because people are going to say, well, what about AI.
AI is only making this problem much worse now, as
horrible as everything I've just said is. And I am
not advocating for the porn industry with this statement, but
I will say say this, for the most part, because

(01:04:02):
of our laws, consensual love making on video has been
pretty much the standard bearer for what people can get
their hands on. We're not talking snuff films, we're not
talking dark web, dark market. We're talking lawful consumption of
this entertainment where AI is going. And I promise you
they're going to try to normalize this and make it legal,

(01:04:25):
and they'll use every amendment in the Constitution to do this,
to argue for freedom of speech, freedom to consume whatever
one would like to satiate themselves with. And it'll get
very blurry because now it's not a real child that's
being abused, it's an AI avatar that was developed for
the purposes of abuse. In the same way that they're
already making this argument with dolls, Let's take people that

(01:04:48):
have a bent towards pedophilia and let's partner them with
dolls so that they can act out all of their
darkest desires because at least it's not real children, and
in that way, they're working through their problems keeping this contained.
I think it's practice for when the real thing is
going to happen. That's all.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
I think. The dehumanization isn't going to change. You're still
feeding on them, You're still feeding the monster and the monster.
It's like any other drug and the more you consume,
the more you need to consume to achieve the same high,
and ultimately you get to a point where there is
no more high. The only high left is to literally
dehumanize another being, another entity, another person, you know, whatever

(01:05:28):
the case would be.

Speaker 1 (01:05:30):
Do you see how Luciferian that is at the core though, Yeah,
how it wants to build and heal and raise and restore.
Lucifer wants to dismantle and destroy and literally, you know,
blood and death. And it's the fact that a person's
desires become in line with that thinking. You can see
this is a Luciferian slippery slope. So so a minute ago,

(01:05:53):
I said, I'm not going to advocate for the porn industry,
and I said that there have been some bumper rails
in the sense that mostly what what people have had
access to is I don't even want to say consenting adults,
because there's a part of this where you have no
idea when you're consuming this content who you're actually watching.
In fact, I make the case an innocent shattered. There's

(01:06:14):
a large number of people that have been forced into
prostitution that you think are a consenting adult. That's there
because they want the limelight and the Hollywood glizz of
being a porn star, and they're literally being forced into
rape on camera. So when I say consenting adults, I'm
giving this huge benefit of the doubt treatment that I
don't even personally subscribe to. But even if that was

(01:06:36):
your argument that the porn industry is consenting adults love
making on film because it's a career they've chosen. Imagine now,
and I don't want to give people ideas, but imagine now,
with the rise of AI, how dark markets and black
markets are always ahead of what you know is already available.
You can see just on social media platforms now funny

(01:06:58):
videos where they've swapped out Arnold Schwartzen's face on top
of Annie and he's singing, you know, maybe something from the.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
Sound of Music.

Speaker 1 (01:07:07):
Sound of Music. Yes, funny, funny. You know comedy videos
where it looks like Sylvester Stallone and they've put his
face on somebody else's body and it's hilarious. It's funny.
The problem is the technology. Those are drag and drop
goofy programs that are available for people to download and
play with. Imagine how much further the technology already is
and how it's being used now to create avatars specifically

(01:07:31):
and expressly for the purposes of abusing them. Do you
know this as a guy that's savvy the software. When
people develop a video game, for example, if people don't know,
there are these things called private servers, some giant corporation
like ACT Division comes out with a game, and then
people that have smart enough to do this figure out

(01:07:52):
how to download the program files based on the disc
or the download. Then they write new amendments to that software,
change the rules of the video game, drag and drop
people's faces, change the voices. Instead of a field goal,
maybe it's you go over the field goal and you
float away in a hot air balloon. They make funny
little gimmick things and they change the games, and then

(01:08:12):
they offer them free on private service from places like
China or Russia where people can play the experience that
looks just like the one that has the LLC copyright,
but it's a complete hybrid version of the game. So
you know that these softwares are already being used by
malevolent people, and you know that they're lifting the bumper
rails between what used to only be possible on camera

(01:08:34):
that involve real consenting or at least real human beings. Now,
when the imagination and a person's ability to fantasize anything
they've ever desired can be visually architected in just moments,
imagine what that's going to do to rocket fuel someone's

(01:08:55):
desire to go further and further and further. There there
are no more bumper rails, There aren't more restrictions to
just what human beings can do with pain thresholds. There
is only now imagination running a spree and what that's
going to do to continue that slippery slope of dehumanizing
other human beings until you're not just practicing with a doll,

(01:09:18):
You're enacting out what practice has readied you for, which
is the actual rape of another human being or the
murder of another human being. So now, why does the
church have anything to do with this? In twenty twenty,
Barner Research came out with several staggering statistics that not
only blew my mind became a part of what I

(01:09:41):
felt God was telling me, you have to warn the church.
This must be a warning. I feel like God is
going to hold those that are not ignorant to this
accountable in a way that he has not for others.
We are held to a higher standard as self proclaimed
leaders of the church. Other people's lives depend on us
not opening portals into making sure that our churches are

(01:10:04):
sanctified and purified by the blood of Christ, and to
have oiled the doorknobs, and to cast out spirits and
make a place safe for the Holy Spirit to come
in and move amongst the people and stir and interrupt
and take control over the service. When you are ignorantly,
even by ignorance, clicking on video that directly fuels the
paid for demand for sex with children, whether you knew

(01:10:27):
that's what you were doing or not. By raising this
ravenous appetite that is completely unsatiable, you need to know
that God is taking inventory of who is on that team.
This is something I feel God put on me to share,
especially with the leaders of the church. So, Kyle, if
leaders of the church were secretly involved in porn, how

(01:10:51):
bad would it be? And I remember I asked you
this a year ago, how bad would it be? I'm
going to skip the ruse. We're not going to do
the ruse because I've gone really long on some of
this and we're going to go straight to the Reveal
Barner research reveals that fifty seven percent in the United
States of our senior pastors admit to have been involved

(01:11:15):
in porn regularly at some point, if not currently, sixty
four percent of the youth pastors. So it gets much
worse when you get into the youth pastor and think
about that. Think about that. You want your twelve year
old daughter under the leader of maybe a late twenties
to early thirty year old man who is telling you

(01:11:39):
that God has commissioned him to be there and he's
the steward of the youth in that church. Sixty four
percent of our youth pastors have admitted to regular pornography use,
either currently or in the past. And if you were
thinking just now, well, Joe, okay, but that opens a
big caveat. In the past could mean anyone that has
struggled with this, what does it look like today? The

(01:12:00):
average is about twenty percent total minimum. Twenty percent total minimum,
so one to two out of every ten pastors. And
you've got to realize that these poles that they do
when they're putting together these case studies and they're participating
with people, many of them on screens or using their
cell phones to answer these questions. There are several and

(01:12:22):
I outline this in the book Innocent Shadow. There are
several reasons why a person might, even during the midst
of a poll, amend their answer a personal conviction, or
they decide that suddenly Big Brother is watching. People are
paranoid and they have no idea how technology works. They
think somebody's going to leak the fact that they were
a part of a pole, so they back out. Some

(01:12:42):
people will fudge their answers and kind of soften the
reality of what's going on because of the ministry ending
shame associated with saying, Hey, I'm a pastor and I'm
a porn addict. So there's lots of ways that people
kind of dial back their answers. Even in the middle
of a poll. Less than one percent of the same
pastors admitted to being currently porn addicts even recommend telling

(01:13:04):
their church less than one percent.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Yeah. The thing that I remember the first time that
when we talked about this, that immediately came to me.
And there's something else that came to me this time
when we're having this discussion. But the first time was admitted,
admitted that there's going to be a difference. Obviously, the
real number is going to be higher, because anytime we're admitting,
then there's going to be some that are not, and

(01:13:29):
probably much higher, which is terrifying considering we just identified
that almost sixty percent of our senior leadership in the
church is at least engaged in this in the past
of some kind. But the other thing that we've clearly
stated multiple times now is that this is not just use,
this is addiction. Addiction and use are very different because

(01:13:52):
addiction is something that you are going to really struggle
with getting away from, whereas use maybe not so much.
So I think that that is also a very telling
word that you can pluck out of the numbers that
you just shared, which is terrifying. And if we've gone
down all the way down to ten or twenty percent
out of that group, I would find that very shocking,

(01:14:12):
especially when they it seems like the vast majority of
them don't feel like they can turn to people inside
of the church for help, the very people who they
need to turn to in addition to God for help
to get out of this pit that they've fallen further
down into.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Well, and another part of staggering information from the same
research that was put out is of that percentile of
pastors that admit to currently still pastoring but continuing their
pornography consumption, only eight percent kyle of those believe they
should even be transparent with their congregation, and less than

(01:14:52):
ten percent of church attendees even say that their church
offer programs to your point that offer real aabilitation or
prayer or support, or men's groups or anything to the effect.
That's why I say it's a dirty little secret. It's
men and women. They do not want to talk about this.
They if they're not using, don't want to be around

(01:15:14):
those that are. They view them as creepy and weird.
And the ones that are don't want to share a
brohood of other users because they're supposed to be bigger
than that, or they're they're the leader of communion, or
God has commissioned me to gather the money every week
and put it in the till, or perhaps my role
is I'm the face of this particular outreach that nobody
wants to lose their status in the church. So you

(01:15:37):
have an enormous number of leaders in Western civilization who
have admitted this, and then of those almost nobody wants
to talk about it. Of those, almost no one has
a place to talk about it, and less than eight
percent of them even want to be accountable for it
or or deal with it in terms of letting their
congregation know that they're currently struggling. And they'll even admit

(01:15:58):
in the same research that they can continue to feel
shame cycles but continue pastoring. So look, if you're out
there today and by some miracle, you're still listening to
Joe Horn over an hour and a half in his
stream of consciousness and his childhood growing up under Tom
Horn and all that, And if you're one of those
leaders in particular that has taken stewardship over the body

(01:16:20):
of Christ, you're the pastor of a church. Here's what
I want people want to know, Joe, What do you
offer in terms of hope? You've done a great job
battering people, beating them up. Everybody's depressed, everybody's sad. What
can you offer in terms of therapy? What I would
say is I'm not a licensed counselor, i am not
a therapist that specializes in this, But what I would

(01:16:45):
offer is this, If you click on something on your
computer or wherever it is you're viewing this garbage. I
want you to picture a sea of a thousand innocent
faces looking at you through the screen, locked in dogcagees, screaming,
please stop fueling the industry that is responsible for the

(01:17:08):
fact that there's a demand that I be in a
dogcage for later abuse. Now, if that sounds self righteous
and really cruel, I want that not to be the
focus here. I don't mean to hurt people's feelings or
further demoralize them or batter them. What I'm trying to do, Kyle,

(01:17:29):
is I'm trying to shake a very asleep church awake
to the reality that this is not a benign little
sin that you can indulge in in the secrecy of
your home while you and God slowly over years and years,
sort out whether you're going to go through a month
of maybe victory and then a month of failure. Every
single time you click on things, you're fueling an algorithm

(01:17:50):
that again, and I've said it three times, is creating
the demand for paid for sex with children. Yeah. I
don't know how you unhear that once you understand the
gravity of what you're supporting. I don't care if you
buy chat rooms with people one on one I don't
care if you subscribe or pay a monthly subscription fee.
Every clique goes towards trending the popularity of that content.

(01:18:15):
That creates the demand for people to create and deliver
more of that content. What are they looking for? They're
looking for people that they can do these videos on. Now,
why do foster kids play into this? I said earlier,
the foster care system is a side effect of a

(01:18:35):
spiritual problem. And by the way I should lead with,
the foster care system isn't even the largest aggregator of
where these abused kids are. Remember that lots and lots
of kids that are being abused, the vast majority of
them are still in homes where the abuse is either
not discovered or the states don't have enough evidence to intervene,

(01:18:55):
or they're not motivated, or they're already overburdened and don't
have placements available and literally can't remove the kids from
what has been reported abuse. So when I say to you, Kyle,
today in the United States, we have four hundred and
twenty thousand children living in foster care right now, remember

(01:19:16):
that that's a very small percentage of kids that are
still being abused in homes where they've never been pulled
out of. Is that not? Just now follow me for
just a minute. Of the four hundred and twenty thousand
children that are actively living in foster care, you have
ninety percent of them statistically guaranteed to experience two to

(01:19:38):
five forms of abuse. This can be physical abuse, holding
their hands on stovetops as a form of discipline, locking
them in dog cages, beating them with bicycle chains. This
could be forced touch, forced kiss, forced sexual acts that
we don't need to unpack with specificity. Two to five

(01:20:01):
forms of abuse. Fifty percent of the children placed in
foster care will never be reunited with loved ones ever again.
They will never see siblings. So imagine little Sally is
in a home where she's living out a literal nightmare
and has to hide under the bed from the real
life monsters that live in the room next door, hoping
for all that she's worth that the step dad or

(01:20:23):
the brother or the mother doesn't come home or passes
out from overdose, and maybe, just maybe that one night
they're salvaged from some kind of physical or mental or
sexual abuse, and the only constant she's ever known is
that under the bed with her is her little Brother Billy,

(01:20:43):
and I'm just pulling these names out. Yeah, Suddenly child
Services is aware of the abuse. They remove the children
from the home. They're thrust it into foster care. But
because placements are difficult, Sally never sees little Billy ever again.
This is what I mean when I say it's a
level of mental trauma that a lot of adult men

(01:21:04):
would bust under. Leaving war times, they come home and
they need therapy. Many of them take their own lives
and have not seen the kind of abuse that some
of these tiny brains that have not even had a
chance to even process what they've been through, are trying
to process what they've been through. Eighty percent of these

(01:21:29):
young men, from the ones that survive the ones that
don't come up missing, will become incarcerated. Almost all of
the men and women will become completely financially destitute, the
women turning to things like prostitution forced labor as a
way to eat. Many of them will join gangs for

(01:21:50):
protection in exchange for a place to stay in something
to eat. The young men will be turned into enforcers
and drug runners. Seventy percent of the young women will
become pregnant almost right away. With children that are destined
for where statistically guaranteed to be pushed right back into

(01:22:11):
foster care. And so you can see this cycle goes
on and on and on and on. And so am
I blaming the foster care system. No, I'm telling you
that they're overburdened, they're underfunded, and a lot of really
bad people have figured out there are lots and lots
of blind spots and it is a schmortgas board place

(01:22:31):
for these people, these malevolent, evil people to go and
exploit these blind spots. It's a conveyor belt of victim
after victim after victim after victim. And so that's why
I say, man, we are not going to fix this
via voting levers. We're not going to fix this via
law enforcement putting pressure on our police. There is one

(01:22:53):
solution to this very spiritual problem, and that is a
massive awakening inside the church, Kyle, and I am praying
that that is what we're seeing the very beginning of
in what is going on right now with church attendance,
up with people that questioned everything, including their own gender,

(01:23:13):
are now giving their lives to the Lord and are
rebuking that path. I am for the first time in
many many years somewhat optimistic about the direction of the
organic church, not the entertainment based church, but the organic church.
And I'm not writing the entertainment based church off I

(01:23:34):
really am not. I'd love to see revival there. I'd
love to see the spirit of God get a hold
of these giant ministries that have the funding and say, Lord,
we're sorry for what we've focused on over the last
twenty years. We're going to recommit our direction to the
things of you. We have a TV infrastructure, we have
a honey infrastructure, the resources. Can you imagine having your heart,

(01:23:57):
Kyle and a ten million dollar budget, what you could
do with that?

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
You know, right, I would have. Honestly, I have my
wife and I have these conversations all the time because
the that is you want to experience true joy on earth.
When you give and you have the ability to use
your resources to make a difference in people's lives and

(01:24:22):
protect even one of these kids from something like that,
you will never experience anything more rewarding on earth, you know.
Unfortunately we all run after the shiny toy a lot
of times in our minds, right, the first thought is
if I won the lottery, I'm going to go get
a lambo, and it's like, no, Man, if I won
the lottery, the first thing I'm going to do is
look around and see where I can go help people

(01:24:44):
and make people's lives better. And that's the true you
want to be in touch with with Jesus's heart and
with God's heart, that's where you're going to be the
most in touch with it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:54):
I agree completely, And I've even not to ever say
that I that I make at out of second guessing God.
But I've pondered carefully and respectfully without second guessing his
moves or counter moves. You know, and I'm sure you've
at you know where I'm going. You probably know what
I'm going to say. When you look at people that

(01:25:15):
have been blessed beyond comprehension, you see the size of
their buildings, and you know enough about ministry to know
this is costing a fortune to run this place, and
you're like, God, I'm not jealous. I'm not saying what
you've done for us isn't enough. So that's not the
message here. Yeah, But how is it that these superficial

(01:25:39):
or sometimes even evil or dishonest how many times have
headlines busted over the last just couple of years, Kyle,
or some very well known author or some very well
known ministerial figure is now caught up in a scandal
involving an underage child. Oh my goodness, And you're like
the resources, how can you get into a headspe I'm serious?

(01:26:00):
So I said, Lord, how do you get into a
headspace where you've been blessed that much? And would take
for granted, for five seconds, the blessing to know that
God can just shut the spickets off, You can just
overnight be dismantled and finished. Why not keep your goals altruistic?
Why not be focused on ministry? And then and then
you've seen like your ministry model SkyWatch TV. You know

(01:26:26):
that it has not been easy for us at times.
We are we are fighting tooth and nail to keep
some of those ministries afloat. It has taken every bit
of gas in the tank to come up with ideas
and creative incentives and to try to keep you know,
messaging the vision, and to work very hard. And I
wonder sometimes if God doesn't at some point in the journey, Kyle.

(01:26:51):
And I'm not saying that every financially blessed ministry is nefarious.
That's not what I'm saying. Yeah, but if somewhere along
the way, money and power are some of the most
corruptible things, and God is saving you from that grappling match. Yeah,
He's going to keep you dependent on your knees. He's

(01:27:11):
going to keep you relying on him to keep it
in the black because he knows things about you that
you would never guess about yourself. I've if I'm being
completely honest, I have no bent towards money. You know
me personally. We've talked a million times, and you know
that I am a hermit who would literally never be
on a podcast ever again or do TV ever again,

(01:27:31):
which blows people away because they're like, wait, you seem
so comfortable with it. I am responsible for ministries, and
I care about the vision of those ministries.

Speaker 2 (01:27:42):
The only vice you have is high end carpet. Joe,
we both know this high end carpet.

Speaker 1 (01:27:47):
Okay. See, he's been in my house and he knows
there's no carpet in my house.

Speaker 3 (01:27:51):
I'm bringing some levity to a heavy discussion right now.
The whole house is concrete floors, and I wanted it
that way. I know, I was super blessed wife and
I got to build our own home about five years ago,
and I said, and you know, we're still paying on
the mortgage. But I said, all I want is no carpet,
no vinyl, no wood. I am tired of tyle. I

(01:28:12):
am sick of every floor. I got big mastiffs, I
got big dogs. I'm tired of the mess and the thing.
I said, I just want concrete floors. And I said,
you can do what you want with the blueprint. You
can paint it blue, you can do whatever you want.

Speaker 1 (01:28:25):
So that was our deal. And she got the tailor
make all the rooms in the layout and the colors
and the things, and I got my concrete floors.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:28:33):
But I don't know if that resonates man, Like you're
you're asking God, Lord, would you do something incredible to
bring a surplus to this ministry so that so that
we're not constantly looking at, you know, sixty day cycles
of you know, how how are we going to keep
doing this? And you know, and I don't know, I'm

(01:28:57):
being more open in this show than I am ever open,
you know on TV.

Speaker 2 (01:29:03):

(01:29:24):
to join today.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:42):
No, and that's the importance of it. I think you know,
people are getting to see real, real you in your heart.
There was a comment when you heard me, I was
kind of typing in response to a comment earlier. Yeah,
and I was answering someone who was in the audience
of the show, because if you're a member, you could
be in the audience of the show. Oh, while we record,
I was answering that person. And that's what I said.

(01:30:03):
I said, I'm so glad you've got to be here
to see my conversation with my friend and see his
true heart, because you do. You have an amazing heart.
Your family has an amazing heart. You know, your your
team there, your mom. I got to spend some time
with your sweet mom and she has an amazing heart.
And the things that are and we got to stay
at the ranch and the things that are happening there
and what that is is just an amazing, amazing thing.

(01:30:26):
But yeah, you know, at the end of the day,
from the resource perspective, it sure would be nice to
have more resources go out about it. But I'm the
same as you. You know, I evaluate myself and I
know the pits that I could potentially fall into. And
as tough as it is, you know, if my prayer
would be Lord, if you don't think that I'm ready
for that, then don't give it to me. And that's

(01:30:49):
hard because you know, you look around and you like
there's a lot of need here. You know, I can
obviously recognize giving walking away from a job where I
was making a very good living, but I just, you know,
made the decision that I'm not going to support the
exploitation of children because that's exactly what my former employer
was advocating for. No, I know was the targeting of

(01:31:11):
children's tannic targeting of children, and I wasn't going to
take a paycheck from that, Nor was I going to
help you know, the company earn money, because if I'm there,
that's what I'm doing. Yeah, and then you know, you
turn over to ministry. But ultimately, at the end of
the day, you know, it's a far more rewarding path
to choose than that, right, and we all have to
do it right. When we look at some of these celebrities,

(01:31:34):
it almost just feels like, whether knowingly or unknowingly, wittingly
or not, it's almost you just feel like they've made
a secret pact with the devil to get what they
have and he pays.

Speaker 1 (01:31:46):
Well. Well, you know, it's interesting you say that, because
my next thought was going to be maybe it isn't
that just God is blessing these people beyond what they
would ever need in twenty lifetimes because they're not using
a lot of it for his kingdom. And I've actually,
I've actually wondered that if if real ministry that changes
and moves things, isn't almost always kind of the model

(01:32:09):
that we're experiencing. Not not to disparage anyone else, but
SkyWatch has to eat what we kill. I mean, the
old analogy we got to eat what we kill. Yeah,
it's it's an old hunter's reference. You're not going to
be able to store up six der for the for
the winter. You're gonna you're gonna live day to day
eating what you kill that day. And you know, SkyWatch

(01:32:30):
Television finally started this year to trend away from diabolical
battles with I shouldn't say diabolical battles with uncertainty. I
will let me correct that and say, that's how Joe
Horn in his tiny, finite, little pinheadedness has felt at times.

(01:32:51):
But then as I and we've talked, you and I
and I say, but then objectively, when I stand back,
we were God was always right ahead of us. So
it's me who's down there going, oh my gosh, where's
the boat going. There's a storm. And then you sit
back and like make it through the storm, ands like, well,
the seawaters weren't really that wavy. You're just misreading the

(01:33:12):
room because you need you need to have more faith
that the Father is going to take care of this.
Does that make sense? Oh? Yes, And again, brother, I
don't talk about this ever, so I don't know if
this is interesting at all, but I will say, you know,
could it be that that genuine ministry is almost always
throttled to a place where it's dependent on God. He's

(01:33:34):
going to supply what you need and a little bit
more than that so that you can maybe grow. But
the minute it stops being about growth for his kingdom,
he withdraws, and then anything you were pursuing that started
to replace that is now just some carnal endeavor having
to do with personal prosperity or generational wealth or power

(01:33:55):
or the things that you know. People. I want to say,
and I believe I watched this in my father. Money
and opportunity never changed my father. He never stopped being
a home mission, salt of the earth pastor. It's a
good man, and he had he had lots of opportunity.

(01:34:16):
But I will say, and I can't be specific, but
I will say what he did with his opportunities financially
is he would roll it right back in the ministry.
Now if I can live up to his model, and
I believe that for me, it won't be a difficult
challenge because I based on what I've had access to

(01:34:39):
in terms of opportunity, it hasn't changed me. I don't
believe it's changed me. I'm so concerned about my health
and the health of my family. I'm so preoccupied with
not taking for granted that the truest blessings are the
health of your children. Like my brain doesn't get fixated

(01:35:00):
on things like money or power, and as far as
being seduced by power. You know me, man, I'm I'm
like what I said a minute ago, would be totally
reclusive and live under a cave, except that I feel
like I have this responsibility to steward over ministries that
I'm responsible for now, and I care very much about
what those ministries do. The part of it that I

(01:35:21):
take the most joy in is the is the whispering
pony's ranch rehabilitation that we offer children. So I could
just live up to my dad's model. I'll be buried
someday if the Lord Terry's and I'm hoping that those
that survive me will say money and opportunity never changed him.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
Yeah you know what, Yeah, I'm saying, you know absolutely.
And just to be clear for anybody who's listening to this,
if you're wealthy and you have a lot of money,
we're not trying to say that you're level bound or
anything like that, because a good point. There are examples
of people the most you know, some of the people
that were the closest to God. Abraham was wealthy, David

(01:35:58):
was wealthy, Solomon was wealthy. These guys were very, very wealthy.
But you know, with wealth comes the opportunity for corruption,
you know, and the enemy's going to work you because
if he can get your bent the other direction and
take those resources and have them directed in not so
good ways, he's going to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
One of the failure points for Solomon at the end
of his life was he got in a relationship she
started convincing him to start doing idle worship and take
all those resources and put them in the wrong direction.

Speaker 1 (01:36:26):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
But you know, even Jesus told us, truly, I say
to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter
the Kingdom of Heaven. Again, I tell you, it's easier
for a camel to pass through the eye of a
needle than for a rich person enter the Kingdom of God.
And that's in Matthew nineteen twenty three and twenty four.
And ultimately what Christ is staying there, it's not you know,
if you're rich, you're not going to make it. It's

(01:36:47):
just be prepared and make sure your heart is set
in the right place, like it sounds like your father
very much was because of the temptation and the things
that are going to come at you that you're going
to have to turn away from from in order to
stay on the right path.

Speaker 1 (01:37:04):
No, I agree, and I'm glad that you offered that,
because I probably should have said that and didn't think
about it. No, I'm not disparaging anybody of means at all,
especially people that have worked hard. You know, I have
personal companies. I would love for them to be enormously successful.
What I believe I would do with that resource, though,
is fret less about some of the difficulties that these

(01:37:27):
non for profits are having at times and be able
to underwrite them. And that was what I saw my
dad do a lot when when five oh one c
three non for profits were struggling that he believed in,
he would just help them. And so anyway, so I
will give you an example of this playing out this year.
SkyWatch TV was beginning to trend in a very positive direction,

(01:37:52):
and it was brought to my attention that there would
be a budget for expansion if we wanted to go
that route, and we had one of two decisions. Moved
further into the black and away from Defcon five, or
do we, in a step of faith, invest some of
that money in a new network so that we can
reach more homes. And after lots of prayer and talking

(01:38:14):
with the board, we made the decision to sign a
deal with the Word Network and also my good buddy
Kyle Milholland, who brought deeply theological, deeply theological encouragement when
he said, Joe, no risk it, no biscuit. It's an
inside joke, but it really was a We were on

(01:38:35):
the phone for it like two hours and I was
I was just sharing my heart with you, brother, and
you know, you kind of it was your It was
your opinion that if you have it invested into more
homes hearing your gospel messaging. Absolutely, and so now we're
in you know, countries all around the world that we
weren't in before, places that can't afford to support SkyWatch TV,

(01:38:57):
and they're hearing the weekly gospel message that we put on.
So you know, and that to me is my model,
like let's let's get SkyWatch, you know, let's get it
into a place where it can function. But if there's
anything above what we need to simply function. You reinvest
in expanding to new networks, and that that would be

(01:39:20):
my hope. If the Lord were to give us years
if his return is not immediately, if I live, you know,
for the foreseeable, that would be my That would be
my heart is that SkyWatch would continue to grow, expand,
and that others would rise brother and join what Whispering
Ponies Ranch is doing. Maybe get some surrogate ministries that

(01:39:41):
want to champion similar models where they come out and
we would be happy to show them what we do
and and people of means and resources doing the same
types of things.

Speaker 2 (01:39:50):
I would like to dive into a few more things
around some of the other parts of your ministry, just
to kind of go back to the ranch a second,
because I know that's obviously a huge part the ministry
and a really important part of the ministry. What percentage
of the children that you're getting are they all one
hundred percent every summer? And I guess explain the time

(01:40:10):
frames of the ranch, and what kind of kids do
you have showing up at the ranch? Are they all
coming from foster care?

Speaker 1 (01:40:16):
So almost all of them are coming from the foster
care system. We partner with ministries like Royal Family Kids
for the Children dot Org Teen Reach, and then we
have a new legacy group with Alice Beckett that just
started this last camping season. So these are kids that
have been removed from homes where they've been abused in

(01:40:38):
every inconceivable way, and now they are in foster care
and they are now available via these partnership ministries to
attend at no expense to them, by the way, Whispering
Ponies Ranch for week long rehabilitation Christ centered rehabilitation camping program.

(01:41:01):
So I don't know if that made sense what I
just said, but groups like Royal Family Kids, they're the
ones that interface with the foster care systems and the parents,
and they're the ones that aggregate the children. They bring
them to us via the Boss and then when they
arrive we take over partnering with them. We take over
the food service, the running of the amenities, and are

(01:41:21):
a support infrastructure them. They use Whispering Ponies Ranch facilities,
overnight stay, zip lines, rock wall, indoor swimming pools. I
myself personally pre tape SkyWatch TV episodes so that I
can take the months of the summer to go and
run the zip lines and do the cleaning of the
swimming pools, literally myself doing the rehabilitative work there. And

(01:41:45):
so they are presented with crafts and activities and a
chance to finger paint and build things that they get
to take home. They get incredible food. We are very
exquisite in our spread. We don't do this corporate, you know,
camp food type food. When we do as an option,

(01:42:07):
it's because we have kids that are institutionalized that will
only eat stuff that resembles cafeteria food or prepackaged like cereals,
and so there is that option, but it's not mandatory.
We always put fresh food out, big salads, clean meat options.

Speaker 2 (01:42:23):
Yeah, they sounds like they're eating pretty good and you're
taking good care of them. And I know a lot
of times, you know, after having conversations with you, that
they often don't want to leave.

Speaker 1 (01:42:32):
It's brutal. Yeah, everybody wears sunglasses on Friday to hide
the fact that they're bawling their eyes out. This is
my leadership. These are my family members. I after a
series of years, have gotten better at partitioning my brain
off enough not to break down in front of the

(01:42:54):
kids without having to wear sunglasses. But I will tell
you that in twenty twenty three, my object state, my
mask broke at the zip line. We were doing ministry
with a young little boy named Cody, and he was
aging out of the program and I didn't know if
I'd ever see him again. And we had this exchange

(01:43:15):
where I'm getting ready to zip him for what was
the fourth year in a row, and you really get
to where you know these kids, and I didn't know
if I'd ever see him again. I managed to get
through zipping him, but as soon as he left what
we call the crow's nest, and he's out on the
zip now. I then turned to my daughter's and I'm weeping.
And my daughters have not seen that. They have not

(01:43:38):
seen me lose composure like that, and I'm weeping, and
what's wrong. Daddy knows. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm trying.
I'm trying to hulk up because I got another kid
in coming. It's it's really hard on Fridays because you
have a mix of kids that are hiding behind garbage cans.
They don't want to leave Whispering Ponies Ranch. They've had

(01:43:58):
the best they've had the best time they've ever had
in their life. Many of the kids that come to
Whispering Ponies Ranch Kyle have never even been celebrated. They've
never had a birthday party. The idea of eating a
cake and getting a present is completely foreign to them.
And so every camp, every year, every kid, at some

(01:44:22):
point during that camp week, they're going to receive a
personal pan sized birthday cake. They're going to receive, you know,
gender complimentary presence for like little boys, they are going
to get boy gifts like cars and remote control things
and footballs and nerf things. Little girls will get baby

(01:44:43):
dolls and coloring books and makeup kits, and they're presented
with these. They're all gift wrapped. They get to open
them just like it's a birthday. These kids don't want
to go home on Friday. They have a hard time
wanting to leave, and we can't make promises well, we'll
see you next year, because we don't know if they'll
be placed elsewhere or if we'll ever see them again.

(01:45:05):
A lot of the kids we do get to see
for many years in a row. And by the way,
if people are wondering does that program work, what can
you really do in the life of a kid in
one week? Miracles. In the documentary series Rescue Us, which
we produced and put out last December. It's a six
part series. You can watch it on Amazon Prime or
go find the DVD at Amazon. But Rescue Us. The

(01:45:26):
six part series features Samantha Orr. She was one of
the worst recorded cases of abuse in Springfield, Missouri history
when she finally got removed from her home, and she
tells her testimony, it's absolutely We put a lot and
there were things we couldn't even put in the series.
It's just horrific, just absolutely horrific. And again you get

(01:45:50):
into how could a monster do this? And you realize
there were drivers. A lot of these people that are
perpetrating abuse were abused. It's the only life they've ever known.
It's a cycle. They themselves were victims, and I'm not
making normal what they've done or making excuses for them.
They themselves need to be put somewhere where they can't
harm others, and many of them need their own decompression

(01:46:12):
and rehabilitation.

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
And just to interrupt really quickly, that that highlights exactly
what I was kind of I think we were talking
about earlier, which is why this is so important for
the enemy to get in here and target kids because
you can see this cycle that is so hard to break,
and it's almost like you know that the multi generational
special I can break this one, and then we just

(01:46:36):
continue this pattern over and over and over again. Interrupt No,
it is it?

Speaker 3 (01:46:41):
Is it it?

Speaker 1 (01:46:42):
You know? Hurt people, hurt people, that right, that's it,
whether it's emotional, whether it's physical. You know, the father
that beats his son is is likely to be raising
the next generation of father that will beat son because
it's the only variation of survival. Well, they know they
create an object state. Their brain literally partitions the abuse

(01:47:04):
of it's called transference. They aren't rational in those moments.
They're not like a child that was you raised in
a nuclear family and nourished with good vitamins and told
that they're of value and that they're loved. You can't
you can't sit across the table from somebody that thinks
like that and not unpack how they got there with

(01:47:26):
some understanding. I've had people confide in me as a
child advocate. You know, I'm a magnet for this stuff.
Now from people's admission of porn addiction. People that you've
probably seen around the admission of porn addiction. That's why
I'm telling you this is not an exclusive monopoly. The
church thinks it's the world. This is something that is

(01:47:47):
very prevalent in ministry and in positions of leadership and
personalities that people know. But the other part of this
is the the physical abuse part of this. I've had
people confide in me things, and I know you've told
me to be uncensored. This is just, you know, how

(01:48:07):
far down the rabbit hole do you want me to go?
I had a guy just about five months ago. He
was a poor an addict, and thank god, now he's
completely reformed and he's written a book. I don't know
if he would want me. I suppose he's written a book.
He's probably I'm going to leave this confidential because I've

(01:48:28):
not asked him if this part of it is public.
But he tells me, he says, and by the way,
his book is all about freedom from pornography. But he was,
you know, I want to say it was almost thirty
years addicted. And the way it started though, is he
is nine years old and his neighbor, a full grown
adult man, rapes him. Now he's nine years old, he's

(01:48:51):
been completely raped. He has no one to talk to,
and I believe his father was emotionally completely unavailable and
maybe also abusive. If you can't look at a guy
like that who has no self worth at all, his
innocence was completely shattered and be overly angry that he
then becomes a porn addict with no sense of direction.
He doesn't know that he's buying into an industry that's

(01:49:14):
creating the paid for demand to have a child in
a forced sexual encounter. He's a victim.

Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
Yeah, he can't recognize the cycle that he's in.

Speaker 1 (01:49:24):
Oh, he has no idea. People like that cannot be
held at all responsible in my view, for where they're stuck,
especially if the church has never taken the time to
outreach or love or provide an olive branch or those
initial steps to admitting that you have a problem. A
lot of these people are just in the secular enterprise

(01:49:44):
of planet Earth. They have no clue who God is
or most of their view of the church is cynical, right,
But that doesn't mean they don't have the shame cycles,
or the bouts with depression, or the want to end
their life, or the lost sense of pointlessness and not
being subservient to a creator. So you know, we've seen

(01:50:05):
all of it man at Whispering Pony's Ranch, from the
reformed adult to the child that is still stuck there.
We've had kids show up at Whispering Pony's Ranch and
it's where they finally felt safe enough to say yes.
Even the home they placed me in, the abuse has continued,
and now child Services is at our facility intervening for
a child. We've also seen children, you know, falsely accused

(01:50:28):
because they've learned that they can weaponize pointing fingers and
say that guy or that woman did this thing. And
so we have policies like too Deep, no child goes
with any adult alone ever ever, no exceptions, no excuses,
a zero threshold, zero tolerance policy, and we are argent

(01:50:52):
defenders of that policy, and we expect every group to
come in to adhere to that policy. And so groups
like Royal Family Kids, they have their own policies Too Deep,
and a lot of times you'll see three adults, three
adults in case one of the children starts running off
into the woods or locking themselves in a bathroom stall.
Does that make sense? So we've got all these policies,

(01:51:15):
we've seen it all brother. But let me just focus
for a second on something positive to maybe leave the
viewers with we have seen God like Samantha or the
woman that I just mentioned to this day, she was
one of the most abused cases in Springfield, Missouri history,
started off at a Royal Family Kids camp years and
years and years ago at a different facility, and came

(01:51:37):
to know Jesus and now today as an adult, she's
been reformed. She is one of the leading vocal child
advocates that partners with ministries like Royal Family Kids. She's
one of their national spokespeople. She's a part of the
Rescue A series, she does seminars and speaks at conferences.

Speaker 2 (01:51:57):
Weren't a powerful advocate powerful advocate?

Speaker 1 (01:52:00):
Yeah, and now we're seeing as Whispering Pony's Ranch has
been in ministry for the last six seven years. Now
we're seeing kids that started as young children aging up
out of the program and coming back Kyle as young
adult counselors who have said, you know, Satan had a
plan for my life and it was going to be

(01:52:21):
of bitterness and hatred and then eventually suicide. But instead
God has rehabilitated me. He has given me a new
lease on life, and I am here to pay that forward.
I am here to be that voice of hope for
someone else that's stuck where I once was. If somebody
wants to help, I'll give you the short version. Algorithms

(01:52:46):
feed national conversations, and right now, if you pre order
this book, Innocence Shattered, you help drive everything we've been
talking about for the last couple of hours into mainstream narrative.
You're feeding the oul algorithms that do the opposite of
what we're talking about. You can help me raise this
to a national conversation. You can help open doors for

(01:53:07):
more interviews, more national attention by pre ordering a copy
of this book at Amazon dot com. And I apologize.
I know I'm losing my voice I've been dealing with
I've been doing interviews basically every day, Kyle, and lots
of them, long ones.

Speaker 2 (01:53:22):
Yeah, And I know, and I've held you longer than
what we originally intended today. But you know, and you're
doing all this because you know it's you obviously shared
very clearly earlier that how much this means to you
and how much God has stirred in your heart, and
now you know you start he was stirring in your
heart before you really got and put your hands in
and started to get in there and actually do work

(01:53:44):
and see the reality. And once you started to see
the reality of everything, you know, face to face, I
can only imagine the conviction level had to go up
fifty thousand times. But yeah, I think by to your point,
you know, to kind of put the positive on this
that we talked about the very beginning. So it's not,

(01:54:07):
you know, so doom and gloom and there's just no hope.
What are some things that people who are listening to
this can do in order to make a difference.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
That's a great question. First of all, prayer is massive,
and I don't mean drive by prayers. And what I
mean by drive by prayers is I call it I
made this up, but I call it the Cindy Lou
has cancer syndrome. So forgive me if somebody out there
is actually watching this by the name of Cindy Lou,
but I call it Cindy Lou has cancer syndrome. So

(01:54:40):
Cindy Lou goes to church and she reveals a prognosis
that doesn't look very good. And what happens immediately people
are hysterical, their emotions that are a level eleven. They
instantly begin volunteering to make spaghetti for Cindy Lu's family.
Where can I drive you? What can I do? What

(01:55:00):
do you need? Two months later, Cindi Lu's family member
is posting that she's not doing well on Facebook, and
the same people willing to drop everything and do everything
to help Cindy Lou are like, ah ah, that's a bummer. Man,
oh man, Well what's for dinner? They when people don't

(01:55:20):
think that they can affect outcomes, and also their attention
spans are very limited by the fact that everybody's got
a lot of stuff going on. Most people are very busy,
and they've got their own problems in their own lives.
It's really hard to hold them out an eleven into perpetuity. Right.
So what I mean by you know, Cindy Lou has
cancer syndrome is that very fast, rapid decline in interest

(01:55:43):
or subject fatigue. It is also applicable here. This conversation
today may have really stirred somebody. They're with us, They've
been waiting with baited breath. They're still in the chat room,
they're still watching online wherever they're watching, and we've got
them but in the subsequent days following this, eventually they'll

(01:56:04):
go back to driving forklift, or eating sandwiches, or working
wherever it is they work. You can't hold people in
an eleven and so what I mean by that is
you have to become very intentional with your prayers. Say Lord,
I may not feel this gripped by this in two weeks,
but I refuse to become comfortable ever. Again. I've been informed,

(01:56:26):
I've been enlightened, and now I know that there are
children in dog cages. I know that they're coming up
missing every day from the foster care system. The brightest
minds in the country Kyle aggregating the number of missing
children just from the foster care system alone, not even
the vast surplus of kids being raised in homes that
aren't that have nothing to do with foster care place

(01:56:48):
it at about eleven to twelve kids coming up missing
per day with no chain of custody and no whereabouts,
nobody looking for them, and they have no They're going
to be classified as runaway, but that may not be
true at all. They may be forced into prostitution, victims
of the sex trade industry. But there's not enough law
enforcement there's not enough help, there's not enough volunteers. When

(01:57:10):
you hear stuff like that, that needs to serve as
a reminder that you may be comfortable in your life
and it's time to get back to forklift or wherever
you work. But for somebody out there right now, they
are still entrapped and they are looking for the Body
of Christ to do something about this. That's what I
mean by focused intentional prayer. You say, God, I'm going

(01:57:31):
to give space to this every week, I'm going to
take this before my church, and I refuse, regardless of
how busy or distract did I become, to commit this
to prayer, because while I might be okay today, some
kid is in a dogcage. I keep going back to
the same need for prayers that are focused because there

(01:57:51):
are children right now. Kyle, as we've done this interview,
every ten seconds, there's been a report in the United
States of child abuse. Somebody somewhere's making phone calls, somebody's
finding officers, somebody's ringing hotlines every ten seconds to report abuse,
and if you wait two more seconds, it will have

(01:58:11):
happened again. Since the moment I started telling you that
every ten seconds, that happens. It is not responsible for us,
as the self proclaimed body of Christ, to turn a
blind eye to this one. I don't care if you
serve your church as a janitor. I don't care if
you work outside doing outdoor theatrical lighting. I don't care

(01:58:34):
what your role is. I feel like this is one
that is everyone's responsibility. I'm not telling you to leave
your current job. I'm not telling you to leave your
current vocation. I'm telling you that you can at least
pray for these kids. The other thing I would offer
there is an appendix at the back of this book.
It's very thorough and it's designed to put together a

(01:58:56):
series of thought exercises that guide you through what is
cast and to still it down to very simple yes God,
I will give you my yeses. And you don't have
to have whispering ponies ranch in your backyard or parents
that came along and founded an anti trafficking ministry for
you to be of value of the Kingdom Amen. You
can get involved locally in your local church doing outreaches

(01:59:21):
that help try to identify what the signs and symptoms
of abuse in your own backyard looks like. You can
start asking conversations with kids. You know, Hey, how are
you feeling? Are you getting enough to eat this week?
Kids will tell you the craziest things. No, I'm not
eating most days, and they look completely normally. You have
no idea, you know, programs that are focused on getting

(01:59:45):
to the bottom of whether you and your own church
have kids that are being victimized by their porn addict
uncle who is enacting these things out, you know, in
very responsible ways. That's why I suggest you start with
a book like and Shattered. It's a series of thought
exercises that will help you navigate giving your giving God

(02:00:06):
you're yes in a very responsible way. Law enforcement, whether
you're involved in local politics, whether you're one that would
like to write a letter your congressman to demand more
anti trafficking or anti abortion laws. But we could spend
all day talking about the differing ways that people can

(02:00:27):
get started. The free one, the one that you can
start today without the book, is the prayer. But very
focused prayer, not drive by, not anecdotal, not spur the moment,
and then it falls apart in the subsequent number of
days that follow this podcast, focused perpetual, committed prayer. Amen,

(02:00:48):
And I feel like prayer. But do pray, but also
do what you can You know, what does that look
like in your own church? Explore that with your pastor
can you You can't be guilty of prof flying parents.
I'm not talking about start spying programs at your church
and then get arrested for stepping over hippo law. I'm
talking about talking to children and learning where they live

(02:01:10):
and how they're doing. What is that mark on your arm? Oh,
that's a skateboard injury. Hmm, okay, does he show up
every week with the same skateboard injury? That might be
time to call law enforcement. Sam very suspicious that abuse
might be happening with little Sally. She's very strange, and
that she won't eat when the food is presented every
week she won't eat, or she wants to take food

(02:01:32):
home in her pockets every week. Wants to take food
home in her pockets. See a lot of church people
just take those little tells for granted to me as
a child advocate. Those are tells that something at the
house may not be right streaming. Yeah, public school officials,
are the kids taking food home? Are they showing up
with pedicures and manicures that they themselves, don't have the

(02:01:55):
money for might be being visited by a sugar daddy
that is grooming them in social media to eventually abduct
for forced prostitution. And that's how it looks, that's how
it starts. Parents are not paying attention to this. Where
did she get the money. It's a good time for
parents to be involved and investigate. So there's lots of ways,
and you can do your own research. What are the

(02:02:17):
signs and symptoms of being groomed, what are the signs
and symptoms of abuse, and what can I as an interventionist,
as an advocate do without overstepping privacy laws or creating
difficulty or unfairness to families that are simply living life normally.
And there's nothing there there. We don't want to turn

(02:02:37):
everybody paranoid about everyone and turn neighbor against neighbor, but
there's a responsible way to just keep your eyes open
and intervene for children. Some of the kids that have
been pulled out of trafficking started by finally confiding in
a neighbor or somebody at their church or to a
police officer that something was going on.

Speaker 2 (02:02:59):
That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (02:03:00):
And and by the way, one last thing, Kyle. People
think that trafficking is all you know, four guys in
dark clothing pull up in a white van in the
middle of the night and grab you and pull you
into some of the country where now you're being forced
to do things. A lot of this is happening inside

(02:03:21):
of homes where the kids are never removed from their homes.
You can do your own research on this. An enormous
number of children that are forced into sex slavery, a
form of trafficking, and forced prostitution end up there because
of their foster parents or their biological guardians. These people

(02:03:42):
have meth deals that get sideways. They themselves are abusing
the child, so they use the child as a form
of entertainment with people they're afraid of to square a debt.
So when you think of trafficking, it's not just the
van pulls up you never see. This is family members
allowing and trying to normalize it so that the child

(02:04:03):
doesn't even know that they're being abused. They're trained when
the neighbor comes over. This is what it looks like
as a form of entertainment or this is love. I
talk about this all over the country. You've heard me
talk about this Kyle normalizing abuse or pedophilia so that
it is a form of love. The child protests less

(02:04:25):
tattle tales, less thinks of it as love or is normal.

Speaker 2 (02:04:30):
on deserving of it and you listen to the show

(02:04:52):
join my Google community. Check the description for the link
to join today. There's there's so much of this, you know.
And I recently just shared a lesson at church and

(02:05:15):
I pulled some statistics myself from the Pew Research Center,
which is another very large think tank that collects data
absolutely and what it did is it showed another side
of the church that is in decay with the acceptance
of a lot of you know, unscriptural and unbiblical and
satanic things that we've allowed into society, such as LGBTQ

(02:05:36):
and you know, transgenderism, and we're getting into transhumanism. And
you can see there were three different studies done one
twenty seven, fourteen, and here recently I think at twenty
three or twenty four, and you can see the trend
line and every single category was nothing but up with
allowing these things into the church and normalizing them and

(02:05:58):
making them okay, and not only in society but in
the church. And the thing that I shared that probably
was the most shocking to the crowd were things and
you can see this. You can see the beginning markings
of what you just said with normalizing pedophilia and beast reality.
These things are on the upward trend, and we're starting

(02:06:22):
to the first thing that happens is we start to
soften language. So instead of saying pedophilia because that has
such a bad connotation, now we start to say, yeah,
minor attracted person, Well, I'm just a minor attractive person.
And their lobbying to be added on to the LGBTQ
plus you know camp and so you can see these

(02:06:42):
things and if we do not start to take a
stand as a body of Christ and in the church,
it is going to become our normal. It's sad.

Speaker 1 (02:06:53):
I agree with you completely, and without getting into all
six hours, that is what allow the Rescue Us series
focuses on and we actually talk about and really unpack
that that path, how that's been normalized in the classroom,
and how that is absolutely what they're pushing to legalize.
They hate the fact that right now adults can't have

(02:07:14):
relationships with children inappropriate ones, and it's something there. There's
a whole agenda behind it. I want to believe. Right
now we're seeing a pushback that has probably collapsed some
of those efforts that were really gaining traffic. They've really
derailed some of that momentum.

Speaker 2 (02:07:33):
For us too.

Speaker 1 (02:07:35):
And I'm hoping rather than just a setback, it is
a it's a permanent collapsing of those of those movements.
But we know that the hearts of men are wicked,
and you know, the Israel forgot the Lord their God,
and there was you know, war and famine and pestilence,
and then Israel remembered the Lord, dear God and celebrated
him and there was surplus and jubilee and triumph and

(02:07:59):
then Israel for the Lord again. His here goes a circle,
the cycle, the cycle, And I feel like America is
an experiment and what it will become before the Lord's
return is up to I think the human experiment called America.
And if we keep our hearts in alignment with God,
we don't have issues like abortion or children wondering what

(02:08:22):
gender they are. If we keep our beliefs in alignment
with whatever our daydreams can titillate and construct, we're in
serious trouble, urgent decline, total catastrophe. So we will see.
Is this a moment, Kyle, where America is going to
turn from its evil ways and rededicate their lives to God?

(02:08:45):
Is He going to heal their land? Well, he promises
us to do that, but it has to be sincere repentance.

Speaker 2 (02:08:52):
Amen.

Speaker 1 (02:08:52):
It can't be like these pastors that are indulging in
pornography over the course of a decade, progressively becoming monsters,
where they pay lip service to the ministry and privately
perpetually cry out to God and say that they're sorry,
but their actions don't back that up. What did Jesus
say to the woman at the well, go and no

(02:09:14):
and sin no more. He didn't say go and try
really hard and then but if you do, just keep
kind of crawling back. And I think we have a
biblical example an Ephraim, where the Holy Spirit just withdraws.
He can see that you are pushing him out of
your he gives you free will. So God is more
interested in your actions and where your heart is than

(02:09:36):
the words you say. I believe when you say Lord,
I'm so sorry and uh bah bah bah after a while,
it's just hot steam. Those are Joe Hornsworth's hot steam.

Speaker 2 (02:09:45):
Yeah, you're just checking a box. Make yourself.

Speaker 1 (02:09:47):
You're checking a box to make sure you don't go
to hell. That's not the same thing as saying God,
I'm a broken human.

Speaker 2 (02:09:54):
Sincere repentance, I never want to go back to.

Speaker 1 (02:09:58):
What life was like during that shame cycle. I will
never go back. I will not be a counterfeit husband.
I will not be a counterfeit father. Find your list
of absolutions, the things that you absolutely must have more
important than this fleeting titillation. To me, that's repentance. And
I think when you're looking at whether the nation is

(02:10:19):
restored or not, it's going to be more than just
Lord we realize that we almost lost our way. Please
heal our land. And I'm not going to try to
say that I understand all of the mind of God,
but I'm saying if you put it on me, my
encapsulation would sound something like this, Well, are you repentant?

(02:10:42):
Are you going now to turn from your wicked ways?
Or are you crying out because you're desperate because you
see you're about to lose your comfort little pillow case
you sit on and play video games and the comfort
of your drive by pizza and your instant access to TV.
Is that what you're worried about? Because they care about

(02:11:03):
your heart, not your comfort. I will restore your land,
but you're going to turn from your wicked way. So
I'm watching and I'm appraising. Nope, Nope, still wicked ways,
No restoration.

Speaker 2 (02:11:14):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (02:11:15):
I don't know if you agree. And Kyle, for as
long as I would sit here, you and I could
go on for six more hours at some point, at
some point, how many of your listeners want to hear
Joe Horn talk anymore? Right?

Speaker 2 (02:11:28):
Well, I think we've definitely extrapolated a lot today and
there's a lot to think about. But I want to
kind of take a moment here, because one of the
perks of being a member of the show is actually
to highlight questions from the members. Yeah, I'm going to
do that right now and highlight one. And the first
thing that I'm going to do is highlight a couple
of comments from this person, which is from Melissa. She says,

(02:11:51):
thank you Joe for your devotion and your time today.
A very moving conversation. So she also said this earlier,
which was very complimentary of what your work is. She said,
kids are so easily malleable. Their souls are wanting for
love and acceptance so deeply they'll accept anything for a
bread crumb. I'm so grateful Joe has this community to

(02:12:13):
feed these children's hearts and bellies. Was the community the
continuation there that you may not be able to see.
And then she did ask a question earlier and I'll
throw it out here really quick, which I think is
a good one. And we kind of touched upon some
of this, but I just want to make sure we
thoroughly touch upon this from the aspect of being useful
in what we can do to help fight this. So

(02:12:33):
she said, how can kids connect with you? I'm familiar
with teen Challenge, but I think they're only specific to
a few states. Is there anything listeners can take away
to spread this message to their own community.

Speaker 1 (02:12:45):
Well, first of all, Melissa, thank you for your kind
remarks and your comprehension of children and their needs and
the ways that that can translate into abuse because they're
looking for affirmation and love. You use the analogy of
bread crumb. That's exactly right, and that is why these
malevolent actors that are exploiting systems like foster care have
figured out how easy these damaged kids, you know, traffickers

(02:13:09):
that are grooming these kids because they have a number
of attributes that these that they're looking for. These traffickers
are looking for kids that have a history of running
away so nobody looks for them when they're gone. They're
looking for kids that have mental problems, that need affirmation,
that are easy to manipulate and damage. And so you

(02:13:29):
seem like without even having a conversation with you, you've
already gotten the grasp on this. And I also want
to react to your comment about teen Challenge. So teen
challenge God used in my life, I think was a
seed that he planted in my heart when I was
about nine years old. My father was pastor of a
big church in Portland, Oregon, and we saw a teen
Challenge come through and I remember these men running around

(02:13:51):
and I thought it was so funny that they all
had matching T shirts. But they're not a choir, and
I didn't get what this thing is. They're not a choir,
they're not an act. They're not a dance routine. Like
what is this? You know, big, big men, all diverse,
some Chinese, some you know, Hispanic, and they're at big, small,
random men. This is not a cast for something. And

(02:14:13):
I remember my dad trying to explain what teen Challenge is.
He said, it's it's a lot of them are ex cons.
A lot of them come off the streets. They were
drug addicts, they were this. They were teen Challenges giving
them a shot at food in their belly in exchange
for rehabilitation. They have to agree and consent to go
through a program of rehabilitation. And even as a kid,
I just thought, man, that is so cool. So I

(02:14:35):
remember being in the foyer of my dad's church and
seeing these men selling these red and blue T shirts,
and I think they gave me one because I was
the pastor's kid, but I remember having some pleasant conversation
with this very tall, large African American man, and I
was a huge fan of wrestling as a kid. I know,

(02:14:56):
this is totally dithering, what is this is not what
I asked at all. But he was huge and he
had big muscles, and I remember thinking that this guy
looked like a WWF wrestler. And our conversation was not
very long, but I'm like nine years old, and I
just remember being struck by how sweet he was and
how humble he was. This massive goliath of a man

(02:15:20):
could be very imposing and very frightening. And I remember thinking,
was he one of the ones in jail? Was he
one of the guys on the streets? You know, I
don't know. I better be nice. But he was so
kind and so all the years of my life, way
before he became a child advocate. My wife and I
have supported the women in Springfield, the local Teen Challenge,

(02:15:42):
so I have many many years. I was friends for
years in Portland with the president of the chapter in
Portland organ of Teen Challenge, many many years friends with
people in that ministry, and I love what they've done.
They are often underfunded and understoffed very much so. But
to your question, what can people do and not to

(02:16:04):
continuously shamelessly plug my book and say in a much
of the answer to that is in the appendix at
the end of Innocent Shattered, a series of thought exercises
to guide towards So let me give you this. This
is very tangible and you don't need my book to
do this. If somebody listening to this program today, the
whole concept of being charitable, I guess teen challenge, the
idea that you would outreach to the downtroden, the example

(02:16:26):
in Matthew of what the gospel looks like it's ministering
to the orphans and the widows. That whole concept got
in my heart at a very young age. If somebody
watching this program, you know, I don't want to buy
the book and out of the money, no time. It's
going to be too dark. I don't want to deal
with it. But I did resonate with a part of
this that had to do with Joe's compel to go

(02:16:48):
and now be an activist or an interventionist or an
advocate for children. Go to royalfamilykids dot com. They have
chapters all over the United States, I don't quote me,
but I believe it's like two hundred and twenty two.
It's a lot of chapters. I don't care what state
you're in. There is something in proxy to you. They

(02:17:11):
have a program of going through a background check and
training required to be a volunteer, but they need volunteers
to come with them for one week rehab camps for
these very special kids that have been abused in every
possible way. And let me tell you something, if a

(02:17:32):
week doesn't sound like a lot, the emotional toll of
being at such a high level of output for an
entire week is a marathon. It's very difficult. But again,
the rewards I'm telling you. I'm telling you if you
volunteer at one of these camps and you become a
counselor to work with a group like for the Children
dot org Teenreach, I believe dot com or Royal Family

(02:17:57):
Kids dot com teen Reach. The is the is the
program that takes over when the kids age out of
Royal Family Kids. They age out at twelve, then they
go to teen Reach. But they need volunteers to be
counselors for these week long camps. Had a guy tell
me his name is will Johnson. He's one of my

(02:18:18):
favorite coordinators for the Royal Family kids who've been doing
ministry for six or seven years, the entire time we've
run at Whispering Pony's Ranch. He told me last year,
he said, the emotional toll on a counselor after they've
been through you know, the night terrors with kids that
are wetting the bed and screaming at one am, the

(02:18:40):
ones that are wanting to run off in the woods
or become violent with themselves. The difficulty of being a
counselor for those programs for an entire week is such
an emotional toll that it takes about six months after
a one week camp for most adults to recover enough
emotion to recommit to do it again the next year.

(02:19:03):
He told me that, he said, it's about six months
before people start signing up to do it again because
of be convotional. You know, you're hearing confessions, You're looking
into the eyes of a kid that's telling you what
has happened in the home, and then a lot of
it is filled with joy. You're also, I mean, it's
an emotional roller coaster. Then suddenly a little boy or

(02:19:26):
a little girl gives their life to the to the Lord,
or writes down all of their shame cycles and plants
it into the ground at the tree planning ceremony because
they want to be able to forgive their biological parent
or their abuser. You see children that are shut down,
that won't even talk on Monday, leave a total chatterbox
on Friday, completely transformed at brand new identity.

Speaker 2 (02:19:49):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:19:50):
It is a miracle. So one of the things that
you'll never be able to undo, though, is be a counselor.
This would be my challenge to anybody that's like, Okay,
where where do I start today? Go to Oilfamily Kids
dot com, look at a chapter near you and email
them about going through their training and their background check

(02:20:10):
to be a counselor, because you will never be the
same human being ever again.

Speaker 2 (02:20:19):
Amen, Thanks man, Melissa, thanks so much for your question
and your comments. Really appreciate it. And thank you brother
for being here today. I love you, man, I love
your heart. You're just a great dude and the work
you're doing is heavy lift. But man, how to talk
about rewarding to the spirit and the soul. So I
just appreciate you and you're giving me your time today.

(02:20:41):
Because I know it's it's precious. You have precious time
to spend here today that comes at a cost of
other things. So I understand that, and I know your situation.
So I really really appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (02:20:53):
Man. I know your situation, and if it means anything
to anybody. I know Kyle Millholland he's one of the
good guys. And I know everybody in media. I know
all of them. I know all of the TV shows,
and I know all of the publishers. I know all
of the people cranking out books and promoting them, and
the publicists. I know everyone, all of them. What I

(02:21:16):
won't say is anything to disparage someone else, but I
will tell you that Kyle is one of the very
few cranking out what I think is a calling on
digital video every week. For him, this is what he's
been commissioned to do. I expect his platform to continuously grow,
and if you want to support something meaningful, support word
at War, it will grow. Kyle, You've got a great start.

(02:21:39):
You're a fabulous editor and producer. And someday if I
can poach you and get you to come work for me,
I'll do it. Right now, God got you doing that
but seriously, you're the real deal man.

Speaker 2 (02:21:54):
I appreciate that man, it means a lot. Well, thank
you guys so much for listening today, and bid you
do until the next time. On the word of war,

All Episodes

Innocence Shattered | Dismantling The Insidious War Against Our Children

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Innocence Shattered | Dismantling The Insidious War Against Our Children