A Deep Dive with J.L. Witterick: On Courage, Rebellion, and the Power of Storytelling.

We recently had the pleasure of hosting international bestselling author J.L. Witterick on The Writing Community Chat Show, a show recently ranked among the top 10 writing podcasts in the UK. In a wide-ranging and insightful conversation, Jennifer, a master of emotional depth and compelling narratives, shared her journey from a high-stakes career in finance to becoming a globally recognized author. The interview offered a glimpse into her creative process and the powerful themes of her work.Check out her website here.From Finance to Fiction: A Journey of PassionJL Witterick's career path is a story of its own. She was a successful professional in the investment world, even co-founding her own firm, before a documentary inspired her to make a life-altering change. She revealed that her motivation stemmed from the profound emotional connection her books created with readers, a feeling she found more meaningful than the world of finance. Her belief that "anyone can learn to do anything if they want it badly enough" is a powerful message for aspiring writers from any background. Her debut novel, My Mother's Secret, was a testament to this, becoming a worldwide sensation and being translated into 10 languages.The Creative Process: Authenticity and EmotionDuring our chat, JL offered some invaluable advice for other authors. She emphasized that her writing is driven by passion rather than strategy, and that every story, regardless of genre, must feel authentic and be well-researched. She believes the key to a successful novel is creating characters that readers truly care about. She also revealed that her next novel, Stronger, is about 80% complete and is based on a true story from Taiwan. When asked for her most important advice to writers, she offered a classic truth: "everyone's first draft is shit," reminding everyone that perseverance is key.Exploring "The Truth"The conversation also delved into her latest book, You Can't Take the Truth, a young adult dystopian romance. JL described the novel as being about the "transformational power of love." The story is set in a society where people use a dream-inducing drug called "The Truth" to escape their mundane reality. She explained that the love story between the main characters, Flo and Day, serves as the anchor for the plot, which explores themes of appearance versus reality. Her writing style is fast-paced and focuses on the core identity of her characters, making her books accessible and engaging for a broad audience. The book is available now on Amazon. BUY IT HERE.Watch the interview here! Or head over to YouTube. Please consider liking the video, leaving comments, and subscribing. It will help like-minded people find us.📢 A Word from Our Sponsor – Amazon KDPWe’re thrilled to have Amazon KDP sponsoring The Writing Community Chat Show! KDP gives authors the tools to self-publish eBooks and paperbacks and reach readers all over the world. Whether you’re just starting out or already have a few books under your belt, KDP makes it possible to share your story without giving up creative control. They are running the Amazon Kindle Storyteller Award which is an incredible opportunity to win some rediculous prizes. Including £20,000. Simply by adding a keyword as you upload your manuscript to KDP. Watch the video to find out more.Enter here!💙 Support Our Non-Profit CICAs many of you know, The Writing Community Chat Show is now officially a non-profit Community Interest Company (CIC). Our mission is to support authors and creatives through interviews, workshops, competitions, and community projects.Running the show takes time, effort, and resources — from live streaming and editing, to event hosting and outreach. If you enjoy what we do and want to help us continue providing a platform for authors, please consider donating directly to our PayPal. Every contribution goes right back into growing the show and supporting the writing community.📌 Donate here: PayPal.me/TheWritingCommunityEven the price of a coffee makes a difference in helping us keep the lights on, the mics live, and the conversations flowing.

This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit thewccs.substack.com/subscribe

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-writing-community-chat-show--5445493/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Hello everybody, and welcome to the Friday Night Chat Show.
We are so excited to be back in the hot
seats as it were, and with a brand new guest,
which is Who's got an incredible story and amazing set
of books. So we're looking forward to that conversation. Chris,
how are you doing. How's your week being?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, very good, Thank you. The week's been productive. I've
been the admin for the show this week. I've been
emailing people getting some really good guests on. We're booked
up till the end of November in December as well,
so yeah, we're fully booked until the end of the
year and we're just trying to squeeze a few more
really good guests for people.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's one of those things that you know, we've with
over We must be on three seventeen our interviews, and
we love We've had guests back on once or twice,
but we love having new guests on, like tonight's guest
and finding new guests as well.

Speaker 3 (01:14):
And what part of that.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Is receiving emails from people speaking to publishers asking who
they want for us. And what is really great is
when people message us on social media or the email
recommending guests because that gives us a whole new perspective
of conversation we might not have known about. So if
you do have someone you want to see on this
show still even though we are booked up, please do

(01:37):
get those recommendations in because it means that we might
find someone we didn't really know about, or an emerging
author we haven't seen yet, So that could be really
crucial for us to get a really good guest on
the show and help, you know, build their brand as
an author as well.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, I mean for me, it's really interesting because I
get to look for all the requests and we get loads,
like we literally get sent requests every single day. And
some of the authors that we've got coming on obviously
we've never had on before, and some of them write
really interesting fiction. One of them today, she's coming on
the day her book is released, and she writes fiction

(02:15):
which I can't remember how she described it, but basically
she writes books about villains that get the girl but
then stay villains. So it was like it wasn't quite erotica,
but it was in that ballpark, and I was like,
we've never had anyone that's done this type of genre. Before,
so I'm really excited to have that person on and

(02:38):
chat about that sort of style of narration. So yeah,
there's some interesting guests coming up, definitely.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, And obviously that all helps us with our own
writing as well. All the tips we get from the
show through an atle conversation as well and the tips
that we do ask for, so it's a great place
to learn as well as enjoyed the show and the conversation.
So yeah, it's good to have those guests coming in. Yeah,
as what's also great about this is how we support
each other writing and what Chris has been doing recently

(03:05):
with my new crime fiction novel Direction that I've gone in,
has been checking in with me and having a check
in buddy is actually really good. So every other day
when I've been writing, I get a message from Chris,
how's it going if you'd be writing?

Speaker 3 (03:18):
And then it's not.

Speaker 1 (03:20):
The pressure that's there, it's just like I want to
be in an excited position to telling me, yes, I've
done this and I've done that.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
So that's a bit of advice.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
If you know someone who's you know, even if they're
not a writer, someone who's interested in what you're doing,
get them to check in with you so you can
give them updates because it does work.

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, it definitely doesn't. I'm interested in your crime fiction
story for two reasons. Really. One, I'm a reader, so
I'm interested in it from that point of view because
it's a great start to a crime novel. Is something
different that I've not read for a long time, so
I'm excited about that. I love all the little clues,
not necessarily clues, but sort of like why is that happening?

(04:01):
Why is that happening? Why is that happening. You've created
a lot of whys at the start of the novel,
which is great. So I'm interested from a reader's point
of view, but I'm also interested, obviously from a and
invested from a friend's point of view, because I want
to see you at Harrig at Crime Writers Festival on
a panel, and the only way that's going to happen
is if you write this book. So I want to

(04:21):
keep championing you, make sure you get there, and make
sure that I'm the one taking the photos at the
side going yeah, he did it, he got Crime Writers panel.
So yeah, that's the that's the aim, and that's to go.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
We go every year and we do interviews for other authors.
Wouldn't it be amazing to see one of us sat
on the seat being interviewed by one of the interviewers instead.
I think that is a goal that we need to
try and push for, just as an experiment.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, amazing.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
What's what's it called at the minute? That make your
dad proud? Or something that I bet your dad's proud.
That's what I'm basically when I see you there, like
obviously I know I'm not your dad, but.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
That would be awkward.

Speaker 4 (05:04):
Yeah, I did it.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, well done, son, Thanks Stuf brilliant. Okay, let's get
tonight's guest on and have a really good conversation. Please,
if you do have questions, send them in throughout or
wait until the end where we've got our dedicated question
and answer section. But we're happy to receive them throughout.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
So do that.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
And if you're in the chat with the authors, please
say hello to each other.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
This is a community.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
We want you to get engaged with each other, not
like that, not marital, but just in community. Yeah you
could get Okay, So everybody, let's get ready. Tonight's on
the Writing Community Chat show. We are thrilled to welcome
a guest whose storytelling has captured hearts around the world.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Our guest is J. L.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Whitterick, an international best selling author whose work has been
translated into ten languages. She first gained Glabel global recognition
with the novel My Mother's Secret, a powerful story of
resilient and compassion based on true events. Now she's here
to talk about her new young adult dystopian romance, You
Can't Take the Truth Displayed above Chris's Head, a bold

(06:10):
and thought provoking story about society pacified by a dream
inducing drug and the one teenage girl who chooses to
fight back. Yes, we will be diving into the emotional
fire behind a new book, her incredible journey from her
career in finance to becoming a globally recognized author, and
how writing for her is a form of rebellion. So

(06:30):
please give a warm welcome to J. L.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Witterick.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Hello, Hi, Thanks.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
So much for the really wonderful introduction. Thank you, Eric.
I'd like that's me.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
You're welcome, although I did get lost in there for
a second.

Speaker 4 (06:46):
How are you doing, Yeah, fantastic. Thanks. I just really
looking forward to kind of being on your show and
connecting with your community. Is a real honor.

Speaker 1 (06:54):
Thank you, oh you, You're so welcome, and thank you
for joining us and looking forward to getting to know
you and your story. So yeah, I mean, the first
thing to note is how we talk about a lot
of this, and obviously we want to we try to
be a bit more informal at the start of the show.
But I'm just so mind bowed at the direction of

(07:15):
your novels from your first novel, which is an amazing story,
historical fiction, yeah, and moving into now fantasy, dystopian fantasy.
I've got so many questions about that, but let's rewind
it all because I'm jumping ahead here. When you were
in the world of finance and writing, yeah, at what
point did you think, Okay, I'm now going to transition

(07:36):
and what was the spark moment for you to decide
I'm the authority.

Speaker 4 (07:39):
I asked a very valid question because they are completely
different professions. You know, I was in the investment where
I actually invested around the world my firm. I was
one of the few women in Canada who founded an
investment firm and was the president of it. And I
just actually got the million mile Club thing from Ayeric
Canada because I flew so much, forty times around the world,

(08:00):
and they give you a little little plain and I
was just silly. But anyway, and I interviewed companies all
around the world. And then I go from that to,
as you say, writing a novel, you know, based on
tree events during the Second World War. And you know,
I think what happened to me can be relatable to
anyone who finds himself in a place where they could

(08:22):
not have. You know, foreseen it's just you make a decision,
that decision leads to another decision, and then before you
know it, you're in this life that you're in. And
I saw a documentary that I found quite moving, quite inspirational,
and so I said to myself, someone to write that
into a novel. And then one day just said, well,
you know, why don't you just do it, because then

(08:43):
I'll get done. And you know, we all had that
voice that says, well, because you don't know how like
you just you know, this is ridiculous. But this is
what I also say to myself. Anyone who is really
good at what they do point in time, they didn't
know how to do it.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
Is that true?

Speaker 4 (09:03):
So you can learn, you can learn. Anyone can learn
you just have to want it badly enough. And I
wanted it badly enough and it changed my life.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
I end up.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
All my employees went to my partner, which is the
largest bank in Canada, and so nobody was out of
a job, which would have been hard for me to do.
I couldn't couldn't do that, But that worked out and
so I embarked on a brand new career and I've
been a full time author ever since. And yeah, I
mean it doesn't pay as well, I'll tell you that,

(09:34):
but not everything is about, you know, what it pays.
And I also think society rewards in a wacky way anyway,
and you shouldn't judge anyone by what they're paid because
it makes no sense. So yeah, yeah, and I'm very
grateful that about that. I get to live two lives.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
In one amazing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:55):
And you said in the comments there, it's very true.
Growth mindset allows people to find belief in themselves and
I do, I do think that is right.

Speaker 4 (10:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, where did that one turn into action then? And
can you talk us through that process? Obviously he was
saying you always wanted to go into write in fiction. Yeah,
you see, being ahead of a company, having employees beneath
you and work relying on you to have that and
then go, do you know what I really want to do?
This sort of thing, like how did you make that

(10:26):
in action?

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Well, you know, I'm not silely doon, but I did
start in the investment career as an investment career when
I was quite young, So I had already been an
investment person for thirty years, and I'd seen multiple market cycles.
I've seen the financial crisis. We came out of that
the best best performing fund the following year. But during

(10:48):
that crisis, it really, you know, it was like somebody
punched me in the stomach, like really really hard, and
I thought, you know what this is. I've seen ups
and downs, you know, and that markets are just that way,
and I've been through so many I just thought, there
really isn't anything more new that I'm ever going to learn,

(11:09):
Like I growth had already stopped ive, already been through
the best times, been through the worst times. And what
I love about writing is that, I mean, sure, there's
gonna be people that don't like it, and I get that.
You know, not everybody loves likes watermelon. I love watermelon,
so I get it. But when I get emails from
people all around the world telling me that my book
brought them to tears. That one man said to me

(11:30):
that he had lost his wife and that reading my
novel it was a love story like my second one,
which actually every writing made him kind of feel more
connected to her and feel better. And I thought, wow, Like,
I could never do that managing somebody's money. I mean,
I'm just making people more money. You know, probably already
had lots of money. So well, that's not true. Pension funds.
We did pension funds and foundations too. But when I

(11:52):
write a story and I can touch people from all
around the world like I you know, I get letters
from people from India, I get different people, like schools
do my books in Spain, and one teacher said that
kids hid in the bathroom because they didn't want to
stop reading the book that they were reading in class.
I mean, there is no greater compliment than that for
a writer, right, So I'm grateful. I'm grateful. I never

(12:15):
thought I would be a writer. My high school teacher
English said that I should do that. But you know,
you guys are intimately familiar with the plight of authors.
It's very difficult to make a living as a as
a writer, and my parents were immigrants. We didn't have
a lot of money, and I thought, I always thought,
when I was a kid, what can I do to

(12:36):
help my family? What can I do? You know financially
that we'll be able to do that, And so writing
was never ever on the agenda of possibility. But thankfully
the universe smiled down on me and said, okay, you know,
now you've you know, you've had a career in kind
of in the investment world, which I think pays people
outsized amounts, and now.

Speaker 5 (12:58):
You can do this.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
And not that I didn't like the investment industry because
it was fascinating, but now I get to do something
that's driven from my heart that I can you know,
I can touch people and really connect with people I
would never meet otherwise. So I feel incredibly grateful for that.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
So, well, I don't know why my watch is making noises.
My Mother's Secret obviously had amazing success and was translated
into ten languages. Did you when you obviously you sort
of saw that documentary and it resonated with you, But
did you.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
Ever have any sort of.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
Any expectation that that book would resonate so well with
readers and get that sort of success.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
I had to say it was a bit of a
Forrest Gump moment. You know, the only ship I didn't
get destroyed, so I get all that kind of a
moment like that. For me, I was hoping, of course,
that it would be, you know, a book that would
resonate with people, but I didn't realize it would just
take off like it did. And sometimes you know, it's
just it's just you just say thank you when it happens,

(14:04):
because you know you can't see it coming. And people
have asked me, you know, your your books kind of
are all over the place, like you you have a
historical fiction, then you write a you know why dystopian romance?
What's that about? And the truth is, I don't write strategically.
I am not an author that says okay, and you know,

(14:27):
I didn't read the manual on how to how to
be you know, successful as an author, which is you're
supposed to stick to a genre and then people will
know what to expect. They go to McDonald's, they're going
to get that buried fries exactly tasting the same everywhere
in the world. I didn't I write because I'm passionate
about telling stories, and I write when I'm moved by

(14:47):
a story. But my stories all do have a common link,
and that is my characters are relatable, and my characters
are someone that feel like your friend, and and the
stories are told in a very fast moving manner. So
no matter what the story is, I hope to engage
young people. That would be the commonality, but I don't.

(15:07):
I don't. Maybe I should to be more successful, but
I want to write at this stage in my life
because it isn't you know, kind of wasn't a strategic
decision as more of a more of a decision that
that was driven driven really by by it felt like
a message from the universe. This is time for you

(15:28):
to do something different and something perhaps impactful, and and
so yeah, yeah, it's hard to explain other than that,
I guess.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
But writing.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
My Mother's Secret and you Can't Take the Truth is
so very different. And with historical fiction, especially being on
it's something as well documented as a holocaust, was there
a real difference in approach to sort of research in
this because obviously you want to stick close enough to
the truth but make the story and new characters build.

(16:00):
So how much more difficult was one book to write
to the other.

Speaker 4 (16:04):
You know, I don't think about writing. I try not
to anyway, think of anything as difficult. I think of
it as, you know, a puzzle to solve and that
I want to see, you know, how the picture turns
out when I fit all the pieces together. They require
different kinds of research, but I think all fiction from

(16:25):
my point of view anyway, I think you do need
to do a certain amount of research because it has
to feel real. So in all my novels, even you know,
you can't take the truth. The location is set in Orlando.
I have been to Orlando. The location is set in
the neighborhood that I have been to that I have
stayed at and so, and the parks there and the

(16:47):
lakes there, I've been through them. So the story, to me,
it doesn't matter, you know, what kind of story you're telling.
I think it feels more authentic if you've actually done
the research search in terms of the bones of it
feel real. I mean a story. Maybe you know, obviously
it's it's a dystopian story, but I think that the

(17:11):
basis of it, the foundation of it, has to feel real,
and the characters need to feel real. And you know,
I think that the key to having the reader stay
with you through an entire novel is that they have
to love your characters. They have to love the people
or care about enough that they want to know what

(17:33):
happens to them. And so it doesn't matter what story
you tell. If someone feels connected to your character, they're
going to want to be They're going to be interested
in what happens.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Yeah, So with that in mind, are you going to
strategically place your next story somewhere really nice?

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Well, you know what's very interesting is I was born
in Taiwan, but I was born in Taiwan at a
time when Taiwan was really really poor, Like I slept
on cement, and that's why I say, the back of
my head is flat. Uh, you know, I feel the
back of my head because you know, when you're a
child and your head is soft, that's what happens, you know.
And so now Taiwan is obviously no longer poor. It's

(18:14):
industrialized it. You know, it has Tawan semiconductor. Every electronic
product in the world probably has their chip in it,
something like eighty percent of products do. But of course
it's a very political. It's a political powder keg right now, right,
and the fear of course that China will show some
aggression towards that island. And so with that in mind,

(18:35):
I was approached by a major publisher UH to see
if I could write a novel, a fictional you know,
fictional novel, but perhaps a little bit of historical fiction
in there, based in Taiwan, because they believe that there's
a lot of people who would like to know more
about Taiwan, but not in a in a dry way,

(18:57):
you know. And and so I thought, well, I don't
write just because someone tells me they think they can
sell something, you know. I guess I said that earlier, right,
But the universe just operates to me in a weirdly
weird way. Because then my mom said to me, well,
you know, my girlfriend just told me this crazy story
about her friend and you wouldn't believe what happened to her.
And she was, you know, in Taiwan, and her friend

(19:20):
was this baby. What it was was her the mother
jumped off a cliff trying to kill herself and her baby,
but the baby miraculously survives, and the baby is my
mother's friend's friend. Kind of thing, and she's one of
the most successful women in Canada. So I thought, wow,
that's a crazy story, like this baby survives the rabbits

(19:41):
the rocks like it's insane, right, and you would never
expect that to happen. And people don't realize that Taiwan
was occupied by Japan for fifty years prior to the
Second World War, and so this woman had fallen in
love with a Japanese man and when he had to
go back after the war, she was obviously treated quite badly,
I mean women and look the other way when she
walked down the street and then spat at her stuff

(20:03):
like that. So she she decided to kill herself. And
and I thought, well, I mean that story is going
to take Taiwan from the end of the Second World
War to now and with this woman and you know,
from when she's a baby too. So I thought, yeah,
I'd like to tell that story. I think that'd be
a cool story. So I call the novel Stronger because
of course it doesn't kill you, right, And and so

(20:27):
that's that's my novel. I'm about eighty percent done and
excited about it. So that's what I mean by I
didn't expect to write that it just happened, and that's
kind of that's that's I just listened to the universe.
I say, well, you know, what do you want me
to do? Now, I'll do it.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Jail.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
You seem like an incredibly driven person. So a lot
of the people that we get on the show and
that watch the show inspirational. They want to be writers.
They love getting tips and advice, So really driven. What
three tips would you give to somebody who wants to
become a writer?

Speaker 4 (21:06):
Okay, Well, first of all, and good for you if
you want to be a writer, because I think that
when you write something, it is a legacy that you
leave to the world. You know, I'm hoping that people
will read my novels even after I'm gone, and that
that who I am is a lot in a lot
of who I am is in my novels, and that
it continues to connect with people. So good for you

(21:28):
if you want to be a writer. I would say
I have one one glaring too, and that is I
didn't make this up. It was a quote by Ernest Hemingway,
and that is everyone's first draft is shit. And and
the reason why that is so powerful is that most
people don't realize that. Okay, So most people go, oh,

(21:50):
you know, I want to write a book, get this
great story in my head. I want to share it,
and they spend all his time writing writing it, or
like every weekend after work they're working on it, and
they're passitorate about they give so much of themselves because
that's what a writer does, right, Like you are giving
of yourself. It's so intimate when you write, and so
you then you finish it, and then you read the

(22:12):
first draft and you go, holy, holy crap, like this
this isn't any good, like, oh my god, like I
wasted all that time. This is shit, right, like no
one's gonna read this, and then you just check it, right,
you just throw it in that garbage can, and you
don't realize that. You know, you have to polish statues
like they don't shine on their own. And no one,

(22:32):
no one, I don't care who it is, no one
does it right the first draft. It just doesn't. You know,
even when you're writing an email, if you just wait
till next morning you read it, you're gonna make it better, right,
even though it looks perfect the night before. So I
try to do that in an important email. I always say, Okay,
I know you think it's great, but trust me, you know,
just read in the morning and sure enough, so it's
a little something, and that I want to change your whatever. Right,

(22:54):
it's the same thing. Your first draft is just a
first draft. That's why they call it the first draft.
And so cut yourself a little slock and say that
to yourself, I can make it better and don't give up.
That is the biggest advice I have for writers.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Yeah, I'm really interested as well about the transition that
you made from obviously working every single day and you know,
managing loads of people, to have in that space where
you're very much on your own, you're having to manage
words in terms of like focus through the sort of
day to day and what it was like in terms
of like word counts, all that sort of bone.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
Right, So it's very interesting and their perceptive to say that,
because when I was running a company, we had two
companies around the world compusiness every day, so I was
meeting with the presidence of companies CFOs and companies all
around the world, and I was going to meetings, you know,
I was I was really engaged with quite a number

(23:54):
of people and then go to writing, and you're like
in a room by yourself, right, You're just you know,
And I suffered from a little bit of I wouldn't say,
I'm not sure if depression is too strong of a word,
but I had I didn't understand why. I was like,
after a while, I was just starting to feel a
little down. I was like saying to my best friend,
I go, why know what's going on with me? Like

(24:14):
I'm an upbe positive person and that I'm not feeling
like myself. And then she said, well, it's because you're
not talking to anybody. You're not like seeing anybody. Used
to see like a ton of people every single day,
and now you're like, you know, cause writing, by its
very nature is a very solitary endeavor. Like you are
in your head and you are just trying to get
the words arranged in a certain way that conveys what

(24:39):
your ideas are and the emotions and that you know,
whatever you want to convey. And so I thought, oh
my gosh, she's right, like I'm suffering withdraw of socialization
that I as a writer, you know you do, and
so she's wanting just like schedule lunches with people, so
like you go and have lunch for somebody, or go
for a walk with somebody, and then you can go
back to you know, and I just I don't have

(25:01):
an office that I write, and I just like to
write at the kitchen table because it's kind of like
to go get my snacks and stuff like that when
I'm writing. And so I after I did that, I
was so much happier. And so I think, I think
you have to understand the level of socialization you need,
because as a writer, you can become quite, you know,

(25:21):
quite a recluse pretty quick.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
I think that really relates to the understanding that life
experience can play a massive part in writing as well.
You know, people do go down the academic group, but
that knowledge of how that social withdrawal, how it works,
experience can really play well into writing a character who
might go through some sort of similar situation.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
So I think that's.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
True, true, And and so all my characters actually have
a little piece of someone I've seen or you know,
met or no or obviously myself in there and my family.
So but you know, they're fictional characters, and it makes
them more real when you when you can draw from
you know, authentic, authentic people or real people, and I

(26:05):
try to do that in all my writing.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
And yeah, one of the things I've heard you mentioned
a couple of times is the universe. I'm going to
tie I'm going to tie in a question about like
spirituality and things like that, like how much does phats
you write in and your mental health. Obviously you talked
a little bit about potentially impression and so SoCal withdrawal,

(26:28):
Like in those moments, do you just wait for something
to happen and I hope that the universe provides an
answer or you try. I have.

Speaker 4 (26:41):
I have this amazing connection with music. I love. You know,
there's music, there's songs that I wrote in this latest novel,
and the lyrics are there in the audiobook will have
the songs, although it's not completed yet, the audiobook. But
so whenever I write, I listen to music. I just
and if I want to write a moving passage, I
listen to music that's moving, and the music somehow passes
through me and into the words. It's just it's a

(27:02):
certain flow that that that I am. I don't know that.
I've always found work for me. And I think the
reason why I say the universe is because I am
a very spiritual person, and I have found that whenever
I've believe, I believe that we send I believe that

(27:24):
positivity actually the opposite of a battery. Positivity attracts positivity.
So I try to stay positive, and whenever things don't
go my way, I always try to ask myself, now,
how is the universe trying to help me? Like is
there something that I'm going to get from this or
learn from this so that's going to be useful later on.
And I always think a little bit of hardship kind

(27:46):
of like perhaps a little vaccination, so that you know,
when that big thing comes along, you don't die. I
don't know, but I do find that whenever I need help,
it shows up. It shows up, and people I don't
know calling me and saying hey you, It just shows
up that in ways that I can't possibly imagine, And

(28:06):
so I can't explain it except that I believe that
there's this energy, this force that will help you if
you ask for it, and if if you are a
good person too, I think you need to I think
you need to be you know that way A fluky
thing that happens to me, and you know, I'll share it,
but it's it's really kind of fluky, and I'm maybe
kind of weird too. Is I will read a manuscript

(28:28):
that I've completed over and over and over again, like
I mentioned to you the first draft, like I will
before it goes to the editor, I will like just
basically read that thing one hundred times, like it's just crazy.
As read over and to make sure that every word
is exactly the way it should be, or every word
is exactly the word that I want to convey that
that message. And when I do read my manuscript over

(28:51):
as I As I mentioned before, I listen to music.
Oftentimes as I'm reading a word, that word will come
up in the song that I'm listening to. Like it
it is insane, like because I don't I don't pick
easy words, and I don't have words like the whatever
I choose, Like I'm talking about words that don't usually
come up in a song. Like for example, I'm reading
the word earth, and just as I'm reading the word earth,

(29:12):
I hear Carol king. I feel the earth, and it's
exact same. I couldn't time it any better if I
call it the radio station and say play this song
when I'm reading my manuscript, I couldn't do it. And
there's words like freight train, Like freight train you never
hear in a song, but Bruce Breinstein like a freight
train through my mind. I'm reading the word freight train,
and I hear the word song freight train like I

(29:33):
scream when that happens. My husband says, oh again, huh.
It happens to me like a couple of times a night.
So I explain that, explain that I can't.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Oh amazing, literally, Halo just reply, oh my god, that
happens to me all the time.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
We'd alignment.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Really, it's not incredible happens to you.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
Maybe it's just amazing authors that that happens to you,
because maybe that's just some sort of weird thing that
you've got going on with words.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
And I'm going to have I'm gonna have to try this.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
So I'm gonna have to go through my draft and
put some music on and I'm going to see if
that works this weekend, and I'll let you know who
it does, because he and you have intrigued me to
this right now.

Speaker 4 (30:14):
All right, well, I have to say it happens for
me most of the time, but not all the time,
So it doesn't happen to you like the first time.

Speaker 3 (30:20):
We'll see I might not be worthy enough, but I Okay.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
What we're going to do is we're going to play
a little trailer about the Amazon KDP advert. So if
you're an indie author that has a book ready to go,
you pay attention to this little trailer. And then when
we come back, we're going to talk about you Can't
Take the Truth, and hopefully JL will give us a
nice little breakdown of what that book's about and I'll
get some questions in from it.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
So here you go.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
Here's our trailer for our Kindle Storyteller Award. Hey wright,
is what if published could only a massive twenty thousand pounds?

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Well yeah, imagine. Well you don't need to imagine, because
that's exactly what's on offer with Amazon's Kindle Storyteller Award
twenty twenty five. This amazing military prize is back for
its ninth year, and it's open to anyone who self
publishes a book like Kindle direct publishing in any genre.

Speaker 3 (31:20):
Any genre.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yeah, whether you've written your first or your tenth novel,
it doesn't matter. If it's unpublished and written in English,
then you can enter that award with a chance of winning.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, and it's really easy to enter, So just publish
your book through Kindle Direct Publishing between the first of
May and the thirty first of August and make sure
it's enrolled in KDP select yep.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
I think you'd be absolutely mad not to, as a
twenty thousand pound prize would help any author boost their
career massively. And our previous guest and last year's winner,
J D. Kirk, said that he took his career to
the next level after winning that award and taking it home.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah, and it did. These books are every so in
order to enter, head to Amazon dot co dot uk
forward slash Storyteller to find out more. The Kindle Storyteller
Award is open now, so publish enter okay, story out there.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
Yeah, we'll support you all the way, you know we
will do that, So we'll leave you with this good luck.
The WCCs together is one we get it done. So
there you have it, as simple as putting a keyword
into your manuscript as you upload it to the keyword
section in Amazon KDP. It's that easy to enter and
it could be a massive life changing opportunity for you,

(32:35):
so please do enter. Okay, so JL, please can you
let everyone know what.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
You can't take? The truth it's all about.

Speaker 4 (32:45):
I think it's really about the transformational power of love.
It's said in a dystopian world where people are wanting
to just rush home to go to sleep because they
can be whoever they want. They have this perfect life.
Step of course, you know their normal life can't compare,
and society falls apart because who wants to be the

(33:06):
teller when you know you're the president of the bank
at night, right when you sleep. And so, but that
is really just the backdrop. The story is about how
finding being loved and loving someone truly, how that gives
you strength and makes you brave in a way that
you can never possibly have imagined. So my main character

(33:28):
is a girl who whose parents have passed away, and
she lives with an aunt who doesn't want her and
and a cousin who's quite meat nasty to her. And
she's really bright, she's she's you know, she's insecure though,
because when you're not loved, even if you're this amazing person,

(33:49):
you have self doubt because you don't have any affirmation
of who you are. And so until she meets someone
who truly loves her, she doesn't discover who she is
and when she does, and she's just you know, this amazing,
powerful person that you can't stop. And and it also,
I think is a reflection on my own ideals and beliefs.

(34:12):
And I guess I'm a romantic at heart, because I
do believe that and I have this in the book
that life only makes sense with love, and that that
is really the major theme of the book. And there's
multiple love stories in the story in the book in
terms of of layering of different you know, people who

(34:33):
have who have loved and lost and in her own
parents and and and her own story about loving someone
so so much that you know, she's she's wanted them
to help them commit a crime basically try to bring
down the truth and because they believe that that the
world is falling apart given given this drug.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, could you talk to us then about the drug state,
you know, dreamlike state that the drug induces And what
kind of inspiration was there to come up with this
sort of idea?

Speaker 4 (35:03):
What came up in a conversation that I had with
a friend of mine who was in the advertising agency
in an agency. He said, you know, Jenny I'm not
going to have a job in a couple of years
because no one's going to be watching ads on TV
commercials anymore. Everything is, you know, going to be virtual,
social media, all these things. And and he said, you know,

(35:25):
the real world could could be something in the future
that that is not as real as a virtual world,
because people might enjoy being kind of you know, wearing
these bosses and living and traveling to Iceland because you
can never afford to get on that plane and go
to the hotel, but you can put on these goggles
you feel like you're in Nica. So I thought, well,
that's that's kind of cool if we're hited there. What

(35:47):
if I wrote a story about, you know, a society
that's already there, and and how would we deal with
that and and what would happen and and that kind
of those questions morphed into into the novel.

Speaker 2 (35:59):
Yeah, yeah, Jel, you hit me on so many levels
there because you said that you're a bit of a
hopeless romantic, which I definitely am, talking about the transformation
of love, which again I completely agree with. But my
question for this then is how do you write love
in a convincing way, in a novel, because if love

(36:20):
is a feeling that you get with somebody, so true,
so true, to get it onto the paper, you.

Speaker 4 (36:26):
Know it's so true. And I'm going to say that
you have to have love deeply and you have to
have had your heartbroken, both of which have happened to me.
So I think I think also that you need sorry a.

(36:46):
I think you also need to show sacrifice because you
don't know how much someone loves you until they have
to sacrifice something that's important to them. So as an author,
how am I going to tell you that boy loves
girl or girl loves boy? Well, boy has to give
up something that is really critical or important to him

(37:11):
for you to know, yeah, he really he really loves her.
Like Romeo and Juliet, they rebel against their families, but
at the end, you know she's he kills himself. And
I hate that ending, by the way, like everybody right
Romeo and Juliet, if.

Speaker 5 (37:23):
I could, because I like happy endings, but I think
that you you have to, you have to see sacrificed
because that is.

Speaker 4 (37:34):
The only way you know that someone truly loves you.
And and in real life too, you know, if like
you know, if I don't know if there's only one
business class seat and and he says, well, i'll see
you when we get there, you know, versus why don't
you take it, sally, and you know, like it's that's

(37:55):
not a huge sacrifice versus you know, let's say, you know,
you know, war zone and you know, got an apple left,
and you say you have the apple. You know, kind
of thing that I don't have to tell you. This
person loves this other person. You know, you know that
they do because of their actions, and and oftentimes I
think it's important that sometimes words don't align with actions

(38:18):
so that the reader can figure it out for themselves.
So you know, I can always I can always also
do scenes where someone you know professes their love and
then they do something that you go, yeah, I don't
think so like you do in real life. And or
someone is quiet about their feelings, but they demonstrate how
they feel about you through their actions, and that to me,

(38:40):
in real life is what you should really believe.

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Mm hmm. It's interesting to mention Romeo and Juliet because
I always see Romeo was like somebody who loves the
idea of love is more in looks rather than that
I know, that's yeah, that's the distinction. How do you
create that love on a page? Which two people? That's that?

Speaker 4 (39:02):
That is true? That is true? In fact, someone uh,
someone I know, I won't say who. Someone I know
said to me. You know, if row me and Julia
I got married, they would have got divorced because their
family can get along and then real family dinners and
they'd be you know, they get carried each other. And
I was like, geez, you know, and then of course
he got divorced. So I knew that that Like, he
always talking about himself, and a lot of times people

(39:24):
stuff like that, they're talking about their own situation. Write coded.
It's like I have a friend who's you know, and
that's them. But I, you know, I suppose in some
ways perhaps true love is idealistic, but I want to
believe in it. I want to believe in that ideal
And and so I'm sorry, that's my dog.

Speaker 6 (39:46):
He wants to believe in it too, apparently, Yeah, go ready,
And uh so I write, I write, I write.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
True love into my stories. I want to believe in it.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Yeah, I agree. I had loved though on that topic,
to see Romeo and Julia at thirty forty years old
panned out like what is that?

Speaker 4 (40:11):
Well, you know, I think once they had the grandkids,
the families get together, you know, it's like, okay, let's
not have anymore.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, you could write that though, Chris, Right, isn't that
like we're talking about the timing threshold that that s?

Speaker 4 (40:23):
Yeah? Oh yeah, maybe like copyright issues with Shakespeare.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
I'm sure Shakespeare is mine, you know. Yeah, maybe maybe
I will write that.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, yeah, that would be brilliant. It might even be
out there we left over look.

Speaker 3 (40:40):
So yeah. The novels described.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
As a young adult of sopian novel with heavy themes
of like a crumbling society and then how do you
manage painting that picture whilst also having that sort of
love story between Florence and Day.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Well, the the in town is really appearance versus reality.

Speaker 3 (41:03):
You know.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
The whole thing about you know, reality is your dreams
feel more real than your real life because it's more
you know, you have. Apparently, how we remember things is
by key moments. Like if you think about your own
life and what you remember, you don't remember in all
slow motion breshing your teeth, you remember key moments that
were you know, were impactful, and and so people when
they have these dreams, they have these key they have

(41:24):
these great great men, and then they wake up and
they go to work, and it's like a very blah
blah experience. Right, So it's what's real and what isn't real.
And and so the characters in the story the same thing.
Like people you think are evil, they're actually not bad.
They're actually good people. And people you think are are
good perhaps are actually not as good as you think.
Or they have they have undercurrency to them. So the whole,

(41:47):
the whole thing is is tied together with that common
theme of appearance versus reality. And what makes it all
stick together is love. Is is the relationships that people
have with each other and the love they have for
each other. And and then you realize for the entire novel,

(42:08):
that is the one true thing that actually is the
is the anchor that keeps that ship from drifting afar.
And so flows relationship with Day is the one thing
that is is the north star is the one thing
that and you know, I always I liked I came
up with this. I don't know how, but you know,
they can't they're not allowed to talk to each other.

(42:30):
At one point in the story. But but they they
they squeeze, you know, they hold each other's hands, they
squeeze it three times for I love you, and so
I I you know, I love that that that imagery
because it is it is what gets them through this
crazy time and being persecuted. And so I think that

(42:52):
that it isn't as it isn't as as one one
or the other. It is actually the theme of love
and the strength of that it gives you, and the
courage it gives you, and the transformative power gives you.
Is the undercurrent that that basically ties the entire story together,
even though it's you know, appearances reality. Throughout the entire novel,

(43:14):
I have her say, you know, I am not a
gardener by any stretch of the imagination. But I do
know that a tree, a flower, a bush, a single
blade of grass grows differently depending on the soil, the water,
and the sun. It is given. And to me that
is love, the water, the soil, the sun is friends, family,
people that care about you, that give you love, that

(43:36):
make you healthy, that make you vibrant. And without that,
even you know, even though this this you know, little
ceiling is amazing, it's not going to be it's not
can flourish without those things. And so that's how I
compare love to what it can do for someone through
the entire story.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
Yeah, that's amazing. Go on, Chris.

Speaker 2 (44:00):
I was just going to say, we got like fifteen
minutes left. People, if you're watching, send you questions in
because the last part of the show is community questions,
and I do have a question actually based on what
you've just talked about, and again, the universe keep copping
up book. What I was going to say was, what's
the difference between young adult and adult? Because this does

(44:20):
sound like a universal message about love, So yes, what
are the sort of differences when writing a young adult
novel to one that is aimed at an audience.

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Well, I'm just actually thrilled that you asked that question
because I think it's really relevant today. There are the
statistics show that a lot of the adults are actually
reading young adult books because they move quicker, you know.
And for example, Hunger Games was crossover where it started
out as a YA young adult book, but adults read it.
And my first novel was written for young adults, but

(44:55):
then we had people, you know, all ages read it.
People over seventy eighty years old and loved it, so
it became a novel that again was a crossover that
people of all ages like to read it. So the
reason why my books tend to be classified as YA,
even though I think the subject matter is more than YA,

(45:16):
is that I write in a way I hope anyway.
I write in a way that moves quickly and that
captivates because if I'm going after that YA audience, their
attention span is very very short, and I think part
of it is because my own attention span is very short.
Like when I'm reading a novel, if the description just
goes on and on about the shade of red of

(45:37):
her dress, I'm like, come on, let's move this along, right,
And so I can't handle that myself. So I'm definitely
not going to write that way. So my belief is
that you don't need to focus onone someone looks like,
because I think what someone looks like is incidental. I hopefully,

(45:58):
you know, want people not to judge me based on
what I look like. I want them to know me
for who I am, for how I think, what my
beliefs are, what my values are, what I think is important,
Like I want you to know me for that, not
for you know, the color of my hair, my eyes
or whatever I'm wearing. You know. So in my novels,
I don't focus on any of that. I focus on

(46:20):
who the people are at the core. And and so
there's a very little description, and there's more more plot
moving along. And I've had people there's a my hair.
I don't have my own hair today, but I do
have a hairdresser I go to for especially Ben's. And
she said to me, you know, Jenny, I just finished

(46:41):
grade school. I didn't even go to high school. I
started doing hair and I just never stopped. And she's
very good, and I'm actually going high school. When I
made her a bare hairdresser, so it was fine. And
she said, your novel was the first book I ever
read and I loved it. And I said, wow, you know,
that's a huge compliment. So to me, big big ideas

(47:01):
don't need big words. In fact, to me, simplicity is
the best. But you need convey strong messages with the
right words. I don't mean, you know, just dumb it down.
That's not what I mean at all. But I mean,
you know, with't the best teachers in school, the ones
that could take a complex idea and make you understand
it because they explain it so well. So that's what

(47:22):
I want to do. I want to make my stories
with stories that anybody can read, you know, anybody can
can understand. And and I've had people whose English, who
English is not their first language, and they've been able
to enjoy the story and they said that it was
the first novel that they could because they you know,
they had a hard time reading literature because their English
was not not that good. So I'm really proud when

(47:45):
I hear things like that because that is the objective.
I want to reach people, and I reach them in
a way that is, you know, friendly and accessible and
that moves along quickly. And I think from the feedback
that I've see that I think I've been able to
do that. And that is one thing that all my
books have in common. So yeah, ya, but also at

(48:06):
all kind of like Shrek, you can watch them on
different levels, right yah.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Yeah, lots of onions layas. Yeah, I love that. One
more question before we move on, So if you do
have questions, please send them in. If you could cast
the main characters for a film adaptation of your book,
if that was to happen for Florence and Day. Do
you have any idea who you would cast?

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Well, you know, I'm crazy about Jennifer Lawrence, Like, I
just think she's so talented, and I read The Hunger Games,
you know, all the series and I loved it, and
I just thought, she's going to be tough to find
someone who can play Cadness. Yeah, well but she did it.
She nailed it, and so she'd be perfect to play Flow.
I think, of course, I don't think we could afford herself.

(48:53):
That's kind of like one of those you know, wishful
thinking things, and day, well day, it's just this like
dream guy that every girl wants, you know, And so
I don't know. And younger version of Brad Kitt would
probably be good. But you know, I don't know what
the latest hid to Robbiers because they'm not that Asian anymore.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
I'm sure someone can let us know.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Yeah, I mean, you never know, you know, that could happen.
You just don't know. Brilliant the universe, you never know.

Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah, that's true, certainly.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Okay, We've got a question from any that did come
in a little minute.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
Or two ago. She said, is the book out in
the US. Yet it sounds great.

Speaker 4 (49:34):
It is. It's available on Amazon in the US.

Speaker 1 (49:37):
Oh, there you go, Please do pick that up. Okay,
let's start you off with our staple questions. Then we've
got ten minutes left. They should time it nicely. If
you could take you kind of touched on an ending
already that you didn't like. So I'll ask that question
to start with. If you could take the ending of anything,
whether it be a TV show, a movie, or a
novel and change the ending. What ending will you change

(49:58):
and why?

Speaker 4 (49:59):
Okay, so, yeah, we already wrote me a Julius. I'm
gonna do a different one movie. I would say Forrest
Gump because that's one of my favorite movies. I mean
I cried so hard the first time myself Forrest Gump
that I thought someone's gonna call nine one one. I
mean I was like, oh, like, she can't wie, she's
like the gids A. But I mean it just touched
me so much because I mean, I'm j Elbiterick, but

(50:20):
you know, people call me Jenny, and of course Jenny
is you know, the most beautiful you know name in
the world, Jenny, right. I mean I think I know
all the lines I watched that movie so many times.
I didn't want her to die at the end, you know,
I didn't want him to be by himself. He'd been
through so much on his own. You know, I understand
that it's more poignant that he has to raise a

(50:42):
kid on his own, little Forrest, But I thought it
would have been nice if she didn't have to die.
Maybe she got sick and then she got better, you know,
let's let's do something like that. But that's the one
thing I would change. I was. I was really sad
that she passed away. And mostly I think when someone dies,
it's actually in some ways worse for the person that

(51:03):
didn't die, right, because they have to live without that person.
And so I felt sorry for him. He'd already he'd
already been on his own almost all his life, and
he waited for her for so long, and she comes
back and then she dies.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
So it's like, no, you might say the same film,
but because you've said you're hopeless romantic, because you said
you believe in love, what's the best exception of love
that you've ever seen on film?

Speaker 4 (51:28):
Oh? Wow? The best? Well, you know, I guess, I
guess it really is worse because he loves her so unconditionally.
I mean she leaves him, he still loves her, you know,
she he comes to see her, she tells him to
get lost. He still loves her. I mean, would be
amazing to be loved that way? And does someone you

(51:52):
know have to be not? You know, Forrest Gump is
portrayed as a very simple, you know, simplistic man. Right,
does someone have to be like that to love like that?
I mean I wish it wasn't true, but yes, I mean,
like I just thought, you know, to have someone love
you that much, wouldn't that be heavenly?

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Yeah? I mean it's a good argument. It is still
Lala Land, but it's a good argument.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
It's not Chris Away.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
I suppose, Braveheart, you would slaughter that guy because they
killed his girlfriend. You know.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
City of Angels, That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
All right, City of.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Angels questions because it is Lala Land. But there is
a question. So does it matter if people prefer their
constructed realities or believe constructed realities are real? I'm thinking
don Quixote.

Speaker 4 (52:47):
So so run that by me again. I was, Wow,
that's a question.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
So can you Oh, you won't be able to see that.
There we go. Does it matter if people prefer they're
constructed realities, all believe constructed realities are real. I'm thinking,
don't care.

Speaker 4 (53:05):
That's that's a deep question. Okay, that's that's a very
deep question. I don't think anybody's ever asked me that question.
So that's like, Okay. The reason why I think it
matters if people for fur their constructive realities is that
it can distort your view of your own life, your

(53:27):
own reality. Okay. So in the novel itself, for example,
the kids don't really train that hard with their coach
because they would experience their championships in their dreams. So
you know, it's it's kind of hard to train and
try to win the championships. And you already you've already
experienced that. And and so people don't aren't their best.

(53:50):
They don't they don't strive to be the best version
of themselves because the best version of themselves is already
attainable without any effort while they sleep. So in the novel,
you know, perfectly beautiful women throw themselves, you know, in
front of subway cars because when they get up in
the morning and they look in the mirror, like they're

(54:11):
you know, they're they're not the supermodel looking back at
them and they're disappointed. They can't handle it. Or or
people get to eat these beautiful meals in their dreams,
you know, in five star restaurants that they could never afford,
and you know they're having like can sup or something
at night and they're like, no, I can't take this anymore.
And so suicide grades are quite high in the novel

(54:32):
from people who are are unable to cope with their
real lives. And I think that would happen. I think
I think if if if your real life was was
so amazing, it would be very difficult to be drudgery.
It would be almost like a living hell. If if
you know, you had to do something that that you

(54:54):
didn't want to do just to pay your mortgage. And
I mean, maybe it's better not to know that you
have this other life, and maybe because you don't have
this out of life, you'll strive to make your existing
life moving the direction that would make you happier, right
instead to thank you know, you know, just giving up.
I don't know. I don't know the answer, and I've
asked people, would you take the truth if you hadn't

(55:17):
in book clubs that I do, and I get a
range of answers. I get no, I would never take
the truth, and some people say maybe once in a while,
you know, say yeah, I would take that. It sounds
good to me, and I'd be able to handle my
real life. I'd be okay. So it's a different answer
for anyone. And the book doesn't tell you what the
right thing is. Now, it's up to you to decide.

Speaker 2 (55:35):
M hmm. Yeah, And you've made a really comment about
that answer, and Halo's got a really good question as well,
and so and you set about the answer. This does
make sense JL. So in essence, the constructed realities are
a form of self harm in this context, which again
is I think a really interesting point.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
That's a really interesting point for sure. I mean, is
this person an author as well? Like was asking the
question because it's.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
Sounds it is as well.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
Yeah, a bit of a deep thinker. Thank you so
much for for dowling in and asking those questions. Yeah,
I think you know, there's there's always flaws that we
see in ourselves that other people may not see, but
we accentuate them, and and so in our dreams we
can be the perfect version of ourselves and that will
just add to the satisfaction of of you know, your

(56:23):
your kind of your waking day. And I and I
think that it would be very harmful, Like I don't
think it's it's going to give anything away. But in
the novel Florence and her name is Nick shortened to
Flow by her boyfriend. Later on, she loses her mother
because her mother and her father had a relationship. I
say that to lose most people, they were so much
in love, Like he represer her feet at the end

(56:45):
of the day. She was a nurse and make her
tea before she went to work, and he just loved
her so much. She loved him, And so I say,
when he passed away, it was for her mother. It
was like, you know, they were her and her mother
and her father were like a pair of well worn shoes,
you know, only good together. And without him it was
like walking the earth barefoot, you know, the pebble and

(57:05):
the jagged stones, everything just making it so difficult to
get through life. So her mother ends up taking you know,
a bunch of sleeping pills and the truth so that
she can be with her husband forever. And she leaves
her child to do that. And so the which is
why she Flow grows up hating her mother and hating
the truth because she says, what kind of mother would

(57:27):
do that? Right, But her mother could not help herself.
It's like when people were an alcoholic or their stuff
in depression. You're like, come on, like just pick yourself up.
But it is not as easy as you think. And
her mother just tried to hang on for her daughter,
but she just couldn't. She's you know, she just wanted
to be with her husband so badly, and every night
she was with him in the dreams right when she
took the truth. So finally she just she just you know,

(57:50):
gave in and took up you know, bottle sleeping pills
that she would never have to wear it wake up.
And so that is the extreme, right, that's the extreme
of someone who can't cope with their waking life or
their real life. And so and that is why Flow
goes through life hating the truth and hating her mother
until she herself meets someone who she loves that much.

(58:14):
Then she is able to understand her mother. Then she
is able to forgive her because she understands now that
it wasn't about her, It wasn't about leaving her. She
all her life, she thought, Oh, I'm not good enough,
that's why my mother didn't stay. And people, apparently children
of parents who commits, or just anybody who's lost someone

(58:35):
through suicide, they always think it was me. You know,
if I'd been better, if I've been what they wouldn't
they would to No, it's never about you, it's really
about them. And so this story is is in that way,
she realizes that, you know, she doesn't have to blame
herself anymore, she doesn't have to feel guilty because there's
nothing she could have done. Her mother just wanted to
be with her father.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah, beautiful, my father. About the shoes, I've loved that.
Hangelo's question is what was the most difficult scene to
write in the book and what was the easiest?

Speaker 4 (59:05):
Oh wow, good, good question. I think the hardest scene
to write in the book was when Flow feels that
she's been betrayed by Day because she loves him so much.
He's the he's kind of like the night and shining
armor that takes her away from all the ugliness in

(59:26):
her life, and she loves him so much. And then
she realizes that that he wanted a relationship with her
from the beginning for a different motive, and and that
I wanted to write that in a way that didn't
make him the bad guy, but write it also in
a way that broke her heart. And and and so

(59:47):
that was a balanced balancing act that I had to
kind of somehow, you know, achieve, And I think I
think I've been able to do that, and and and
and also how she ends up forgiving him as well
was also a very tricky scene to write, because forgiveness
is a tough thing to to kind of come to

(01:00:10):
terms with yourself, never mind trying to figure figure out
how to write it in in a realistic way. I
think I think the easiest part to write was was
was Laura and her relationship with the man, because I

(01:00:31):
you know, I love music. I write music, So to
portray a character who writes songs and who loves music
was to me, you know, an easy thing to do.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Yeah, amazing, I want to know, I think this might
it's quite possible. But when you wrote this book, a
lot of authors get emotionally connected to the characters they're writing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
Did you show to write in the story.

Speaker 4 (01:00:54):
Did I did I do that? Did I get connected
to their author? Did you?

Speaker 3 (01:00:57):
Did you shed a tear or two writing the story?

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
For sure? I mean if someone said they read my
book and cried, and I said, well, that's that's fair
because I cried when I wrote it, so or even
you know who kind of thing. The characters are real
to me. You know, I have a son, you know,
I produced him in nine months like most women, and
this book took longer than nine months. And I produced

(01:01:24):
the characters. They didn't come out of my body. It
came out of my mind. But they are characters. There
are people I created. They are real to me. What
happens to them matters to me. What I You know,
I need to have certain things happen to them for
the plot to unfold. But I go, oh, no, I'm sorry,
this is gonna happen to He's not gonna be good,
and I just like, but I need it for the story.

(01:01:45):
And so yeah, they feel completely real to me. And
I'm going to offer you something else as well, is
five hundred years from now, if someone happens to read
that book, those people will continue to exist. I'll be gone,
My child will be child will be gone. So what's
more real?

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
Okay, JL, before we do wrap this up, where can
people go and buy that book right now? Because people
are interested, it sounds like an incredible story.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
Where can they go and get it?

Speaker 4 (01:02:13):
That's so sweet? They can get it on Amazon. It's
that's the easiest way. Uh yeah, so I think just
ordered on Amazon. I try to make the book not expensive.
That's always been my objective for all my books. Someone
said to me on your books, not very much, and
then someone else said to me, well, you know it's
too cheap people, I think it's no good. And I

(01:02:35):
was like, okay, well let's find a how the balance
here because I don't want people to think that, but
I also want it accessible. So when they go on Amazon,
I'll see that time it's priced that way.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Well, all I can say is You've been an absolutely
wonderful guest. I've loved that conversation, and I hope just
keep writing the stories that you are writing from the
heart and ones that inspire you rather than, like you said,
going down the direct route of in a in a category.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
I guess.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
So yeah, I hope that continues. And thank you, yes,
thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Thank you. It's a real pleasure and I feel very
honored to be on your show. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
Thank you, and I hope to hear more about Taiwan
in the future.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
Yeah, for sure, I'd be the light to send you
guys a copy of that novel when it's published.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
Oh yes, yeah, Halo said she has to go to
a meeting, but incredible interviewers always.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
Thank you for the comments.

Speaker 1 (01:03:30):
Please do hit the like button and subscribe if you haven't,
and leave some comments either on social media on the
YouTube video. And if you have any follow up questions
for Jail, I'm sure we can pass them on and
she will happily answer. But thank you all so much
for tuning in spending your Friday night with us and JL.
Thank you to you. You've been incredible, So from us here,

(01:03:50):
have a great weekend and look after yourselves. We'll see
you all very soon.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Than guys.

Speaker 4 (01:03:56):
Thank you. Thanks Back to

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Back to the