August 31, 2025 • 53 mins
This week on The Writing Community Chat Show, we sat down with someone whose life’s work is all about courage, compassion, and transformation. Renee Zukin is an author, educator, coach, and mental health advocate with more than 20 years of experience helping others do the inner work that sparks outer change.Her book, Every Day I’m Brave: Cultivating Resilience to Gain Freedom from Fear (Wonderwell Press, Aug 8, 2025), is a powerful exploration of what it means to face fear, lean into resilience, and live more consciously in today’s complex world.Why Renee Zukin Writes About Bravery.Renee’s background is as rich as it is inspiring. She’s worked in education, studied multiple psychological and healing modalities, and created workshops and programs designed to help others harness the written word as a tool for empowerment.What makes Renee unique is her belief that writing isn’t just about storytelling, it’s about healing. Through writing, she says, we can process fear, rediscover resilience, and move toward freedom.Every Day I’m Brave.In Every Day I’m Brave, Renee doesn’t shy away from the difficult truths. Fear is real. Life is messy. But she argues that we all have the tools to meet that fear with courage, to practice bravery in small, daily acts that ultimately transform our lives.The book is part memoir, part guide, and entirely rooted in Renee’s mission: to cultivate resilience and create a ripple effect of compassion in the world.What We Talked About on the Show.During our conversation, Renee opened up about:* How she overcame her own fears and learned to live bravely.* Why writing is one of the most powerful tools for self-healing.* The role of mindfulness and restorative justice in her work.* The challenge of writing a deeply personal book.* What she hopes readers will take away from Every Day I’m Brave.It’s a conversation filled with honesty, warmth, and practical wisdom, and one that left me feeling inspired to face our own fears with just a little more courage.Watch the Full Interview.You can catch the full episode with Renee Zukin here, or on our YouTube channel:👉 Watch the interview❤️ Support The Writing Community Chat Show.The Writing Community Chat Show is now a registered CIC (Community Interest Company) a non-profit dedicated to supporting authors and the wider writing community.If you enjoy what we do and want to help us keep growing, please consider supporting us:👉 Donate via PayPalEvery contribution goes directly into keeping the show alive, supporting authors, and building opportunities for creatives everywhere.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to the Writing Community Chat Show. Hi everybody,
and welcome to the Writing Community Chat Show. On a
very special episode on a Tuesday, and the first of
four episodes this week, which is kind of a rare
(00:21):
thing for us. However, we've got some brilliant guests lined
up this week, starting with tonight's guest and going through
it all the way to Friday. We've got another one
on Thursday and double on Friday with a very special
guest to be announced, and finishing off with the Dell
Parks on her twenty fifth book in twenty five years.
It's going to be an incredible show to get her
(00:41):
back on as well and to have a good catch up.
So I hope you're doing well, and you know, start
the week bank holiday for most this weekend in the UK,
which means back to work today. But we've survived that
and we've got a good show now, so I'm going
to get straight into that. You might have noticed that
I'm here all by myself. Mister Hooley has had a
little bit of an accident whilst playing football. This is
(01:03):
the reason that most of us tend to give that
up when we get a little bit older. So best
wishes to mister Hooley, please get fixed soon, and yeah
we'll be missing him, but he'll be back for the
rest of the shows, I'm sure, maybe just in a
bit of agony, but there ego, he'll be all right.
So if you've got any questions through tonight's show, please
(01:24):
do pop them in the chat throughout and we can
ask them at the end. More specifically, if you could
do this to us the favor of hitting the like button,
leave in some comments on the YouTube channel, and if
you haven't subscribed, please do so. All of that good
stuff really helps like minded people find the show, and
that's all good for us and for the community that
we're building around the show. So if you're new to that,
welcome and thank you for tuning in. So I'm going
(01:47):
to bring tonight's guest on so we can get stuck
into that interview. So here is the introduction. So once
I find that that is okay, tonight, we're joined by
someone who embodies courage, compassion, and transformation. Rennie Zukin is
an author, educator, coach, and mental health advocate with over
twenty years experience helping people do the inner work that
(02:10):
sparks out to change. She's been featured alongside some of
the biggest names in personal growth, and her upcoming book,
Every Day I'm Brave, cultivating resilience and to gain freedom
from fear dives into what it really means to face
fear in consistency. Please welcome the inspiring Rennie Zukin. Hello, Rennie, Hello,
(02:31):
how are you? I'm doing well? Thank you, Thank you
so much for joining us. How are you doing great?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I'm so thrilled to be here. And of course sending
lots of good vibes to your buddy who is not
feeling so great right now after that game.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, he is a little younger than me, and I
do tell him there's a reason why I stopped playing
football and other kind of silly things. When you get older,
your body doesn't really want to do those things.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So writing is kind of the best thing that we
can do, right.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
You're right, writing heels and in all sorts of ways.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, it really does. Yeah. So where are you coming
from to join us on the show tonight?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I am coming in from Iowa.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I live in Iowa City, Iowa, home of the University
of Iowa, which is smack dab in the middle of.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The United States.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Amazing. How has it been there? Weather all good? We've
had pretty good sum here in the UK, which is
quite great to see.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No, this week has been really lovely actually, but normally
it's very very hot and humid, and we have something
here called corn sweat.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Okay, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Of corn farms, so it makes the humidity kind of
stick in the air.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But it's gone today, So I'm I'm grateful for the
gorgeous weather we have today.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It is kind of referous. So like when it comes
to writing, there's lots of like get togethers and barbecues
and going outside. Does that impact your writing as it
does mine? Because it's certainly does.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It definitely impacts the social life.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But you know, you know sometimes I actually really love
to write on my porch and when it's yeah, that's
sticky and gross, Yeah, then I find other things to do.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, Well, writers have to have other hobbies, right, So
what's your go to if you're not if you're not
writing or working on your every day.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yes, if I am not writing or working or mentoring,
I'm actually singing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I play in a local cover band.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
A lot of just have a lot of fun with
my friends and relive you know, some good eighties and
nineties tunes and amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What kind of what kind of songs? Everything will specific genre.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Mostly pop rock, do a little indie here and there.
But a long time ago I wrote some original music,
but it's been about a decade since we played any
of that.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So favorite song? Is there? One? There?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Oh? Favorite?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's a tough question. When you were singing if you
love music, it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Is right all of them? Well, I would say.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Probably one of Well, Okay, I have a new favorite
because my co lead singer likes to try new things
every now and again, and he actually decided that I
should sing Pink Pony Club by Chapel.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Rooney Familiar and I was.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Like, I don't know if I can do that, but
I did it and it was a ton of fun,
and I think it's my new favorite now.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Brilliant. I think I think a lot of people who
are writers may have not a lot, but some people
definitely have dabbled in writing music or other forms of
writing growing up. And I think that's a sign that
that creativeness is in there. So, you know, has writing
always been something on your mind? Because you've had a
lot of different sort of avenues you've worked in. So
what led you to typic am a writer?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I love this question.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah. Writing has definitely been the through line for me.
When I was a teenager, I started keeping a journal.
You know, at the time, it was you know, mostly
just kind of like the play by play of what
it was like to be twelve and thirteen, which you know,
it's interesting to kind of look back on. But as
(06:31):
I got older too, I was able to reflect a
lot more it and writing became really the only way
I could hear myself think.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
And I don't know if that sounds.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Weird, but to like know what I was actually thinking
and feeling. It wasn't always clear to me until I
could see it.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
On the page. Yeah, yeah, so that's kind of how
it started. And then in college I had.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, I went through a couple of different majors first,
about three or four. I was pre met at one
point and failed chemistry miserably, so I, you know, took
stock at what I was good at and I was
getting a's and all my English classes. So so I
went that route. But I learned that, you know, despite
(07:22):
procrastination and other things, that got in the way that
writing was something that was I don't want to say easy,
because it's not easy, but it flowed. There was an
effortlessness to it that I appreciated, and then I got
to really hone my skill, which you know, which was
(07:43):
a lot of fun. So I don't think, you know,
it's one of those things where where I think writing
chose me more than I chose it, just because it
really was. It allows me to communicate in a way
that I can't otherwise.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, because you've you've obviously worked in kind of the
mental health arena, working on resilience and things like that,
which I think really do play well into an author's life.
But going from sort of pre med how did that
come into your life? How did you start working on
what is obviously a big passion fore now and the
driving force for everything you do? How did that start?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Mm hmm for me? Writing?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Really? You know, as I mentioned as a kid, it
became a tool for self learning, self.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Actualization, and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
You know, as I went through I actually, you know,
I'm an educator too.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I taught for.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Many years and one of the things that again like
this through line is how can I use writing to
really amplify learning, whether it's you know, academic learning or
it's you know, self reflection learning or some combination thereof,
(09:04):
and the sort of birds I view, and the way
we're able to shift our perspective to change the narrative.
I mean, you know, especially right, mental health is a
is a is an ongoing evolution of learning not only
about oneself, but in relationship to other people too. So
(09:30):
understanding like how my brain works and how other people's
brains work, and what I can do to kind of
rewrite the narrative so that what we're creating together is
so much nicer.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I think it's just really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, well I think it is. It's really important. And
I think mental health is becoming a lot more in
the forefront of everything these days, and it's much more
sort of what's the word researched and out there as
it was previously maybe ten years ago. So how do
you think that has changed and how do you think
that has affected what you've been doing?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, you know, I think one of the reasons it
wasn't talked about previously or researched a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Is because of you know, there's a lot of shame.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I think that's really connected to oh, if I'm having
this problem or I'm thinking this way, or why can't
I get myself together? And you know, a lot of
that stems from sort of cultural societal.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Expectations of who we're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
And if we're looking out at the world, then we're
only seeing other people's outsides and what is you know,
happening on the outside.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
We don't actually have a full picture of anybody.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And and there's the sense of wanting to show up
in the world a certain way, which is fine, and
we don't want to do that at the expense of
being able to be fully who we are, express ourselves,
to have a full range of human emotions even right
(11:20):
We're not supposed to be angry, We're not supposed to.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Be sad everything, you know, and that's just not natural. So,
you know, I'm thrilled.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
That we're having these conversations more and more that there
is more, you know, research happening in neuroscience. We're really
understanding how the brain works, how the brain and body
work together, and you know, in different ways that we
can we can make a better life for ourselves and
(11:49):
each other because of that. So I think, you know,
for me writing the book every day, I'm brave. It's
my story, it's my struggle with different and you know,
fear based diagnoses and things. But it's also you know,
it's also a catalyst for amplifying that message of you know,
(12:13):
this isn't shameful that we have that we struggle. In fact,
what's important is what we're able to learn and how
we're able to create better lives for ourselves because of it.
And so I just think, you know, I'm thrilled to
see the shift, not that I want more people to
(12:35):
be struggling, but but I think it's more that people
have been struggling all along, and now we have a
place to have the conversation about it.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, and both myself and my co hosts have had
conversations about our personal struggles on the show, and it's
it's because of how things have evolved, especially with men's
the stigma about men's mental health, that we've been able
to do that, I feel like, more openly and to
get the feedback that we've had for it. So I
think it's definitely put people in the better position. And
(13:06):
I've recently come off a Trauma Informed Practitioner course as well.
I'm a teacher as well, so I'm using that the
best my ability to teach young people who are between
fifteen and eighteen to try and engage them in a
way where they can try and discuss that which is
really difficult.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It is, Oh my gosh, but I just like you
saying that just fills my heart with like so much joy.
You know, I taught middle school, high school kids and
the teenagers today and especially you know, the young men.
I mean, I'm so thankful that you and your partner
(13:46):
here are having these conversations.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
It's so vital to be a part of this.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Movement and momentum of having the conversations about mental health,
especially for young men, because there isn't a lot of
places where it's safe to have those conversations.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
And so bravo, thank you for doing this work.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I feel like, and it's similar with a lot of
other things. So people who become experts in something after
they've done it enough times, that's when they do become
that expert where they have the knowledge based because of
their experiences. Right, So is this kind of the reason
that led you to write your book, your experiences and
your learnings from that journey that created every day and brief.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Absolutely, one of the things that kept propelling me forward
in the process of writing was this idea that I
was writing as a way to show up in service
to other people, you know, anxiety, depression. They can lie
(15:00):
to us a lot and tell us we're alone and
that note we're broken, and that you know, and it's
simply not true. And for me to be able to,
you know, write the book with in such a personal way,
you know, I had to keep remembering that if only,
(15:24):
you know, if one person reads this and feels less
alone or feels like they have more hope or that
there's a pathway to move forward, then I've done my job.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah, because yeah, it's it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
So we'll talk about the book in a little little while.
But what was the the release process like for you
in that case? Then, with so much personal sort of
information on the line, how did you feel about that
when it was released?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
It? Uh, you know, nervous certainly. You know, I spent.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I spent a lot of time as I was writing
getting support to essentially cultivate my own bravery for even
putting this out there. You know, how can I show
up in integrity? So that if you know, because certainly
there's gonna be people who don't like it.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There's gonna be people who have judgments about me.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
There's gonna you know, and I had to surrender all
of that.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Doesn't mean it doesn't affect me.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Not necessarily, but like I didn't want it to stop
me from you know, being able to put this out
and so I did. I got support from a couple
of different people along the way, both writers and a
woman who's a dear friend and a mentor for me
(16:51):
who actually lives in Sweden. She really helped me kind
of uncover some of those limiting.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Beliefs that would get.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
In the way about my own worth, right, And so
so I did some deep work along with it, so
that by the time the release came, you know, a
few weeks ago, I was so ready to put it
out there and to just surrender to whatever was.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Going to happen. And it's and I'm I'm so grateful
that like.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You know, passed me new to do that work as
and lined up that support. But I also think that
there's something about the tangibility of the book now, like, yes,
it's my story, but it's been crafted and curated in
a way that.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
You know, it's a part of me, but it's not
the whole of me.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah. So so on the flip side, then you had
obviously good feedback as a result of releasing that book.
So how did that feel to get feedback and receive
positive sort of feedback as a result.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
It feels pretty darn good. I spent I still do.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I mean, I I just have tears of gratitude and
seeing the responses and from people I know and people
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I had one.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The husband of somebody I know who I've never met
in real life, the husband.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Out of the.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Blue sent me a message and said, you know, my
wife read this book.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
She couldn't stop raving about it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So I read it too, and he said thank you
because I understand my wife so much better now and
what she's going through with her anxiety and her o
CD than I ever could have.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And I mean, like there was I was speechless.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Like like, okay, we're doing this, this is working.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Like that is incredible, because you know, most people who
write a book want people to enjoy it. When you
have feedback like that, you know you've made a difference
to somebody's life.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So that is one of the best things you can have, right.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, it's I mean I'm honored, like I just am
from this like humbled, grateful state, and and on a
on a very personal scale, it also makes me grateful
for the struggles that I went through because it gives
(19:41):
it a purpose like I.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And you know, and still go through. I mean, let's
let's be real, right, it's not a cure. We're not one.
You know, my life is a lot better now, but.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know it's because I have the tools and the
strategies to keep going.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
But it gives it a purpose that.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, it's understanding that the word that's mentioned is resilience,
and you know it is creating that and from experiences
where you've had to be resilient and to grow as
a person. So I think that's a testimony to building
your own character through that sort of diversity. Yeah, in
that situation, then if someone wants to write a book
(20:30):
where they need to be brave and they want to
talk about things that will be personal to them, what
advice would you have for those people.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
To just start.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
When you're writing a book, it's going to go through
so many iterations before it gets in the hands of
other people that just get the stuff out first, write
everything you want to write, However it's coming out because
it's not going to look like that on the back end,
and it'll be cathartic for you.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So if you constantly are like, oh, what's somebody going
to think? Or what's how am I going to be judged?
Then nothing's going to come out.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I think that is certainly the case for in sort
of every genre that you can write in. It's just
not the will to just to go for it. Yeah. Wow,
what is your writing process?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Are you a panster or plotter? In terms of a
nonfiction book like this, how how did you compose it?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
For me, it was.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
I wanted to try to follow a structure, but I'm
not very good at that. Uh, there was you know,
their structure, and there's flow in their structure and there's flow.
And what I knew I didn't want was just kind
of a wrote like this happened, then this happened, then
this happened. Yeah, like this really is a narrative, Like
(21:59):
this really is is you know, the.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Hero's journey, the hero's journey. And once I.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Knew, I mean, this book had been tapping me on
the shoulder for probably a decade, and I had written
blog pieces here and there that I could use. But
when I got serious about it and I was like, Okay,
now's the time I'm going to start. I called up
my first ever writing coach, and I said, Okay, help
me walk me through this, because especially when it's your
(22:30):
own life, like, you got to have somebody on the
outside to be like, Okay, this is what makes sense.
I don't know what this has to do with it.
So she really helped me curate the narrative arc at
the beginning, and then I worked with it and then
you know, and with my editors along the way. I
(22:53):
wanted to make sure that each chapter also had that
learning piece and so at the end of every chapter
there's prompts, and so in order to have those journal prompts,
we had to even you know, what's the narrative arc
and the lesson of each chapter.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So going through all that, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
It was both it was you know, here's the structure,
we're going to fill it in with the flow. We're
going to look at it again. How are we going
to restructure it so it makes sense? And so I mean,
you know, six seven iterations of what the structure was.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, it was definitely a big part of the process.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah. I think for someone who might be getting into writing,
maybe for the first time, if it picked this show up,
there is a lot more work to be done after
you think you're finished. Just putting that out there, not
to ski you, but that is something that's come up
tonight and many times before, so just be aware of that. Yeah,
work is not done.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
No, it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, So with a writing coach, what you talked about
there is incredible. The fact that they worked with you
to create that concept and to go over with you.
I think that's amazing to work as a team, and
often the case is that when we have authors that
work with the publishers and their editors, they do work together.
When they have a good system, they work well together.
Were there any other bits of information or advice that
(24:14):
the writing coaches gave you that you kind of took
away for your own writing sort of journey. Hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
On the Spotlight.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I know, I was like, I just.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, for me, I really leaned into their expertise
as people who had gone through this process with other writers,
and I think for me, I have a little bit
of a you know, stubborn streak or I think I
know the right way to do things.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
And so it was a practice in.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
In really leaning in on somebody else's expertise. You know,
it was funny when you said, you know, it takes
a lot lot longer.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
That was me as a first time first timer.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I was like, okay, eight months, let's go, I'll be
done right three years.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Three years. It is.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It's a little relentless. I mean, there are some people
out there that rewrite so many times. You talk in
twenty thirty times. Some people can fortunately do it four
or five, six times. But you know, the more you
do it, the better. But then you don't want to
be stuck in that position where you're stressed that you
want to keep doing it because you don't think it's
(25:33):
good enough. So having that extra set of eyes, like
you said, can be kind of crucial.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, well, and then it's done enough, right.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I had to get, you know, because you could stare
at a sentence for you know, forever until you think
it's going to be right. But yeah, so at you know,
at some point you just have to throw up your hands.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Okay, this chapter is done. It's done enough. I'm good
with it.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And were there anything you took out with this book
that you kind of feel you wanted to keep in.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
M I did park quite a few pieces, but I
didn't have I don't feel like they're missing. Yeah, and
in fact, I think it was. I think I definitely
saw how it was better without it, especially when again
(26:30):
coming from that narrative arc versus what are all the
pieces of my story?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Like those are two different things.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, prilliant. All right, what we're gonna do is it
going to play a little trailer. This is for the
Amazon KDP Kindles Storyteller Awards. So any indie authors listening
or watching this back or watching it live, you've got
till the thirty first of this month, which is just
five days away to enter. Yeah, sorry, checking my watch.
There five days away, so please do consider this and
(27:01):
then it's very easy to enter. You just need to
upload your KDP, your manuscript to KDP with a simple keyword.
I'm going to play the trailer. Pay attention if that's
going to relate to you, And if you do that,
then let us know we'd be happy to support you
in any way we can. So I'm going to play
this and when we come back we'll talk about every
Day and Brave in a bit more detail. And if
(27:23):
you have got questions, guys, please send them in. We'll
wait till the end. That's why we do it as well.
But here's the trailer. Hey, writers, what if it in
published could earn you a massive twenty pounds?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Imagine. Well you don't need to imagine, because that's exactly
what's on offer with Amazon's Kindle Storyteller Award twenty twenty five.
This amazing military prize is back for its ninth year,
and it's open to anyone who self publishes a book
like direct publishing in any.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Genre, any genre. Yeah, whether you've written your first or
your tenth novel, it doesn't matter. If it's unpublished and
written in English, then you can enter that award with
the chance of winning.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yeah, and it's really easy to enter.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
So just publish your book through.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Kindle Direct Publishing between the first of May and the
thirty first of August and make sure it's enrolled in
KDP Select.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yep. I think you'd be absolutely mad not to, as
a twenty thousand pound prize would help any author boost
their career massively, and our previous guest and last year's winner,
J D. Kirk said that took his career to the
next level after winning that award and taking it home.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah, and it did. These books are everywhere, so in
order to enter, head to Amazon dot co dot uk
forward slash Storyteller to find out more.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
The Kindle Storyteller Award.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Is open now, so publish enter, Okay, story out there.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, we'll support you all the way, you know, we
will do that. Leave you with this good luck. The
WCCs together is one we get it done. There you go,
As I said, you've got five days left enter that competition.
It's a simple keyword and none of the previous win
is said that they expected to win that, so there's
no reason yours can't. If you're already uploading it, just
(29:17):
put one keyword in. You're in the competition. Twenty grand
it's a big prize. Yes, amazing, amazing. Oh, Renny, every
Day I'm Brave? Can you let everyone know what that's
all about? Please?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I can?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Every Day I'm Brave is the story of transforming your
relationship to fear so that you can create a better
life for yourself.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
More connection, more courage, more joy.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know, the bits and pieces of my story as
I go through different diagnoses anxiety, OCD, agoraphobia, panic disorder,
and yet here I am now, you know, traveling, going
out in the world, doing this work, having these amazing
(30:06):
conversations with people like you.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Amazing. Yeah, it sounds like a really good message. And agoraphobia.
Can you explain, I've never heard that before.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You've never heard that.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Well, so, actually, agoraphobia is broadly, I think represented as
people who don't ever leave their house. Okay, but that's
not exactly what it is. So the basis of agoraphobia,
which I learned, is really about doing basically everything you
(30:39):
can to avoid the possibility of having a panic attack
or dealing with the anxiety. So oftentimes that means you
don't leave your house very much. And certainly my world
got very very small. The only time I did leave
the house is if I had to take my kids
somewhere to something, maybe a grocery store trip, you know,
(30:59):
if I wasn't instacarting it. And you know, a full
radius of about you know, six or ten square miles
around my house. I didn't go much further than that
for a couple of years, so just yeah, it was
it was a journey.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, Hence you mentioned that the factor you're out and
about and doing things like this now, So that's that's
a great estament to the distance you've come with it.
And like I said, it's great that you've managed to
get to a point where you've shared all this for
other people as well. Mentioned the how it's working on
the inner to create that spot on the outer. So
(31:39):
without giving too much away, all being quite brief with it,
how can someone start to make that change?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, the premise right, doing the inner work to see
the outer change really comes from this idea that the
world that we see on the outside.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Is really cultivate and created by.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The work we do on ourselves. How we're showing up
in the world. And you know, people in our lives
are a mirror for us. They're they're teaching us, whether
we like, whether we want to learn the lesson or not.
Sometimes right, some some teachers come to us lovingly, some
teachers come to us.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
A little more challenging.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
But but it's it's the sense of when I can
find more peace within, when I can stay grounded and
centered amidst challenges the better off that we are collectively
as well, Because I'm going to show up better for
(32:45):
you know, my kids, my family, my students, my clients,
I'm gonna and they in turn, right, then it becomes
this ripple effect of.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
How I'm able to be in my own like.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
To show up as I am and to feel comfortable,
allows other people to do the same, and and it
can make some of that, you know, the dissonance kind
of fall away. But certainly there's there's a lot to
get to that point. There's you know, there's different kinds
(33:22):
of work to do, there's different ways we can show
up better for ourselves. And you know, the premise really
here is that it takes courage to do so, it
takes self compassion and you know, doing a little bit
of the work step by step to be mindful and
(33:46):
aware of even the fact that we want something different
than what our experience is.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, definitely. I mean there's a lot of people that
self diagnose and you know, uminate on it constantly without
actually taking that step. If someone's in that position, what
advice would you have for them?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I definitely reaching out to somebody outside yourself, whether it's
first a friend or a trusted you know, family member,
or mentor or teacher.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Or a boss.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And if you don't feel like you have anybody, something
like this, you know, this conversation, finding a book, some
way that you can connect outside yourself.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Because again, like our brains can make up.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
All sorts of stories, yeah, that are changeable, you know,
our thoughts. Some of our thoughts are just thoughts. Our
feelings are just feelings, and everything is changeable. And so
I definitely encourage anybody who's in a point of you know,
(34:55):
feeling like they don't have a way through or they
don't have somebody to you know. I mean, we've got
crisis lines here, you know that first step, and that
takes courage because it is scary to reach out.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I can't tell you how many times I would like
start a text to a friend and be like, oh,
I'm really struggling right now, and then I'd erase it
because I don't want to be a burden, right, You
don't want to be a burden to other people. But
you know what, our people want to help us, they do,
and so we need to let them.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
It's true because I put myself down for a counseling
waiting this once and it was months long. Yes, And
you know what it's like. You get into a situation
where your things build up and you're a you're in
a space, a dark space, I be honest, And by
the time that that came around, it was like, I
(35:46):
don't you know, I don't need it anymore in my mind.
So it's one of those things that I think take
in more initial or media actions sometimes is better. And
perhaps your book could be a way to do that. Mmm.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I sure hope, so I think so.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And even like the writing, I mean again, like getting
it out, being able to express all those even if
it's a you know those dark thoughts, right, get them out,
write them all out on paper, and then you know,
find a nice little tin king or something you can
light them on fire.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And I think people will be amazed, how you know,
things like substat these days you've got people following other writers. Yea,
that even those dark thoughts that you have, if you
are brave enough to share them, as we've talked about,
you'd be amazed how many people resonate with that. And
we'll talk to you about it. Just by putting that
out there. Yeah, I think that's something to really keep
(36:42):
in mind. You know, you could hate that idea, but
within six months you could be a voice for a
lot of people in the same situation, right, So yeah,
potentially that could be worth considering as well. But yeah,
for people like that of course, who would be writing
as potentially people who write for creative process, but also
(37:05):
that information. What about people who just don't write anything
at all? Would that be the same for them? They
just get a notepad or on their phones or whatever,
they just get those thoughts out there.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, I think you don't have to be a writer
to write the stuff down.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, using the notes app. I use the notes app
all the time for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Uh. And if you and if writing really is not
your thing, you know, speak it, do an audio recording,
write something that you know, or just you know, find
a place where where somebody will listen.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
M absolutely, So, who would you say your ideal target
is for your for your novel?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Who should who should go out and buy this?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Well, not a novel, but the target audience certainly anybody
who's who's struggled with you know, anxiety or CD, any
you know, mental health diagnosis, but also the people who
love them, right, anybody who wants a better understanding. But also,
you know, everybody's got challenges. You know, a lot of
(38:13):
my a lot of my readers are you know, women
and men who are adults. You know, they've gone through
life a little bit.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I keep thinking, maybe my next piece is is for
the the every day I'm brave for the teenager because
those kids are.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Still deeply embedded in here.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
But you know, if you're looking for, you know, validation,
affirmation that you know that that it's normal to have
fear and challenges and that there's a different path that
you can take, it's possible.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, amazing, excellent. Okay, And before I actually move on,
what's the next step in terms of you're writing, what
is there something on the go now or are you
planning something.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I do have some thoughts about books in the future.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
It's going to be a minute before that comes through.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
And what I really want to do with this message is.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Cultivate really more of a community around.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Bravery and showing up in our lives in a way
that can cultivate change.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
And so you know, I've got I've got a little Facebook.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Community that I've just started to hone in on, and
I've got some ideas for some programming that I'd love
to bring out into the world. That of course will
probably include some journaling components and things like that. But
and I gotta you know, maybe there's a substack. I
(40:05):
have a blog on my website, but you know, I.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Keep vouching for substack because it builds your email a
list at the same time. Yeah, so it's kind of
a really good tool for that. What's your Facebook group
call for anyone who might want to pick that.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Up every day? I'm brave community. That makes sense, Yeah,
brilliant figured we go simple?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, all right, everybody. What we're going to do is
go into the final part of the show where we
ask a bit more random questions. And there's a chance
for you guys. If you have questions for our guests tonight,
please do send them in. But I'll start us off.
So I sent you some lovely questions ahead of time,
because it can be quite tricky. Yes, okay, if you
(40:44):
could take the ending from anything fictional, whether that be
a TV show, a movie, or a book, what ending
are you going to change your way?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
So I have a couple of things here.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So one was I don't know if Severance is a
thing for you and your audience on Apple TV this right,
So the end of the second season. I'm not going
to give away any spoilers, but I was furious.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I was furious how that ended.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
It felt really it felt unfair, and I can't necessarily
articulate why, because there's the sense of like, who's struggling
the most when they're all like in this horrible spot.
And I'm really being careful about my words in case
(41:40):
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Seen it, but like you can say the spoilers, I mean,
if they were.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
But yeah, yeah, no, I just I just felt like.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
There was a disservice to the people who were the
most sad.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, Severance for me, honestly, I love a TV show,
I really do. And I tried twice to watch Severance
and I couldn't get into it.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I also tried twice first and then I went in.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
But I was also like in the thick of winter
here and didn't want to do anything else.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Interesting that you also had to do that twice?
Speaker 3 (42:32):
I did.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, I wasn't so sure about it. I wasn't so sure,
but then.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I got online reviews and TikTok accounts raving about the show.
I was like, I'm gonna have to see this, and then,
especially when something like that is overhyped, maybe that then
I fak it up and I'm like, what are we
talking about?
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yes, yeah, totally, I totally get that.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, m interesting. Okay, if you could take a character
from the world of fiction, and I'm not going to
say put it into your novels, because again you mentioned
not novels and a different kind of book. Take a
character from the world of fiction again TV, film and
book and take that character on the day out. I'll
change it a little bit. What character would you take?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Well, this one I had a heck of a time
with because I'm like, who are my favorite characters?
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Who would I want to spend a day with? I
even my kids were.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
My teenagers were trying to help me think of things
and people, and I am a big Gray's Anatomy fan,
and I thought.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
They were like, oh, why don't you go hang out
with Meredith Gray?
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And I was like, I don't really want to do
surgery all day, and then they're like, no, you could
go on an adventure. But ultimately I landed on a
book that I have returned to again and again. I
started reading it when I was I think in you know,
seventh grade, twelve years old, and it's actually more like
(44:03):
a parable Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
It's my it.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
It's a story about the seagull that is documented.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's like real life documented.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
This guy, you know, watches the seagull and its journey
on the beach, but then it becomes a character in
the story and the and the seagull itself is working
on ascension basically, like he really wants to fly, and
the rest of the flock is just like, no, we
(44:37):
just want to scrange for our food here on the beach.
And so he's you know, he's doing something different. And
you know, obviously there was something about that seagull that
I really really bonded with because I felt so different
for a lot of my life. And my mom bought
(44:59):
it for me too at the time, and you know,
obviously I needed it. Anyway, I thought, Okay, I want
to hang out with this seagull, and yes, like this
seagull needs to be able to talk to me, Evan, Right,
I'm not just gonna you know, if we're going to
go all all in on this fictional character, and I
would love to be able to fly.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
With this bird.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
And see what it sees and and get a real
glimpse of the world from this higher view, you know,
feel the wind on my face. So I guess it's
more about me getting to be on the adventure with
the fictional character more so than you know, all the
fun stuff we could do here on land.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Well, I've had over three hundred and sixty shows and
never once since someone said they wanted to take a
seagull out for the day. But I appreciate the answer.
I think it's a good one. Oh good, Yeah that was.
I didn't know where you're going with that, but I
get it. Yeah, where would you fly to if you
could right now go somewhere flying? Where would you go?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Hm, somewhere that has a beautiful white sandy beach, clear water,
a nice cool breeze, and no technology.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, yeah, I like that idea. Okay, I want to
if you were going to write another book, This is
kind of a question I do like to ask people. Yeah,
a lot of people go on research trips for their novels,
but in your case, just somewhere you'd like to go
and read. Would that also be a nice sandy beach.
(46:44):
Or do you like where's your kind of writing sort
of hub. Do you like your office? Do you mentioned
the porch? Would you go each or a cafe? What
would your choice be?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Oh? Yeah, I definitely would be not in my office.
This is not the most creative space.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Out in nature.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Definitely walking like a place, you know, maybe a nice
hike because that actually, you know, being out in nature
and walking and moving gets the ideas flowing and then
I can come back and kind of write through them.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
That's definitely a writing tick We've put out there a
few times people questioning writer's block or lack of motivation.
Going for walk is always an answer I came up
with because I agree with you one hundred percent. You'd
be surprised if you just sat there and you can't
get the words out. Go for a walk and your
brain starts giving you those words and you want to
walk back quicker. It just seems to happen. I don't
(47:42):
know why, but it does ys well.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
And that's the only reason I carry the phone with
me too. I can either do a voice memo or
notes app while I've got when the ideas come.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, yeah, So if we fast forward many years from now,
when you're looking back at your life and say you've
written maybe a couple more books in this genre, and
and you're helping people out, what would you hope would
be your What would be success to you in that situation?
Speaker 3 (48:11):
You know, for me, I think success.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Would certainly be the positive impact that I see happening
with others as a result of my writing. If we're
looking far into the future, you know, this is definitely
not my last book. I have ideas for novels, I
have ideas for the next nonfiction piece, and each.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
Of those.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Really is about storytelling being the means in which we
understand our human experience. You know, from the beginning of time.
You know, before people wrote stories, they told their stories.
And so for me, success would be able to spend
(49:07):
my time connecting with story, connecting other people and their stories,
and using that as a way for us to continually
evolve into a more connected and compassionate place to be living.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Amazing. That's a great answer. I like that, brilliant. If
you can, let's see if you could recommend one or
two books for so not yours, that someone could pick up,
maybe ones that may have inspired you or something you love.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah. I just finished reading this one.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
It's Always Been Me by Megan Walrod, and it's a novel.
I don't often read novels, and this one I ate
up in like two days. It's a beautiful story really
about your relationship to yourself and how that can get
(50:05):
clouded as you go through life. It was really inspiring.
So definitely that one, and then oh so many.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
These questions that you know.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Right, right, I know, I mean, I guess I'd go
back to this Jonathan Livingston Segull, and actually talking about
it makes me think I need to reread it.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
And it's a little one.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
It's a little bitty book called Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
I also have it up there, but by Richard Bach.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
He wrote a bunch of stuff and it was kind
of my.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
My intro.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Into understanding the metaphysical a little bit before I even
understood that it was metaphysical, okay, because it's really grounded
in in you know, in real life.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I found that book, so I'm quite interested in that now.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, pure curiosity, right, well, and it's a parable right,
so it's it's really the whole thing is an extended
metaphor or yeah, how to really evolve into your next
best self.
Speaker 3 (51:24):
And the challenges that you have to go through in
order to do that.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Absolutely well, before we do wrap this up, where can
people find out more about you? Where can they stalk
you on socials? And where can they pick up your book?
Speaker 3 (51:37):
All the places?
Speaker 2 (51:38):
So every day I'm Brave dot Com is the site
for the book, which also is linked to my website
everywhere on socials, I'm.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Just me Renees.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
You can Renees, you can dot com, Instagram, Renas you can.
It's just, you know, I like to make an easy
path for folks to to find this work.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, brilliant, Rennie. You've been absolutely wonderful to chat to.
And I have got a copy of your book. I
haven't got into it yet, but it's definitely my kind
of read. The past few years, self help books, those
sort of books been right up my street. So I
will be getting stuck into this and I will try
and let you know my thoughts and review up there
for you. But I just want to say thank you
(52:23):
for sharing your story with us, thank you for a
great conversation, and I hope you enjoyed yourself.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Absolutely this has been a pleasure a lot of fun
and a lot of great questions.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
I'm excited and great to be here with your audience.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah, brilliant, right, Thank you everybody for those tuning in,
I can see there's quite a few of you, a
few on Facebook, so perhaps they're from Rennie's fan base,
Rennie's groups. If that's the case, hello to you, and
I hope you bought the book. I'm sure you have done,
but thank you everybody. As I mentioned, this is the
first show of for this week, which is crazy. We're
(52:58):
back on Thursday and then two on Friday, so please
keep an eye out for those and again hit the like,
leave a comment. Any follow up questions please do send
them in on social media. I'm sure Rennie I would
love to have a look at those and I will
happily share them as well. So thank you so much.
Look after yourselves, and as we mentioned, there are helplines
if you're affected by anything we spoke about. If you
(53:20):
need support a general chit chat, we're here for you
and please do lean on us for that as well.
So thank you and stay safe everybody. Bye.
Hello, and welcome to the Writing Community Chat Show. Hi everybody,
and welcome to the Writing Community Chat Show. On a
very special episode on a Tuesday, and the first of
four episodes this week, which is kind of a rare
(00:21):
thing for us. However, we've got some brilliant guests lined
up this week, starting with tonight's guest and going through
it all the way to Friday. We've got another one
on Thursday and double on Friday with a very special
guest to be announced, and finishing off with the Dell
Parks on her twenty fifth book in twenty five years.
It's going to be an incredible show to get her
(00:41):
back on as well and to have a good catch up.
So I hope you're doing well, and you know, start
the week bank holiday for most this weekend in the UK,
which means back to work today. But we've survived that
and we've got a good show now, so I'm going
to get straight into that. You might have noticed that
I'm here all by myself. Mister Hooley has had a
little bit of an accident whilst playing football. This is
(01:03):
the reason that most of us tend to give that
up when we get a little bit older. So best
wishes to mister Hooley, please get fixed soon, and yeah
we'll be missing him, but he'll be back for the
rest of the shows, I'm sure, maybe just in a
bit of agony, but there ego, he'll be all right.
So if you've got any questions through tonight's show, please
(01:24):
do pop them in the chat throughout and we can
ask them at the end. More specifically, if you could
do this to us the favor of hitting the like button,
leave in some comments on the YouTube channel, and if
you haven't subscribed, please do so. All of that good
stuff really helps like minded people find the show, and
that's all good for us and for the community that
we're building around the show. So if you're new to that,
welcome and thank you for tuning in. So I'm going
(01:47):
to bring tonight's guest on so we can get stuck
into that interview. So here is the introduction. So once
I find that that is okay, tonight, we're joined by
someone who embodies courage, compassion, and transformation. Rennie Zukin is
an author, educator, coach, and mental health advocate with over
twenty years experience helping people do the inner work that
(02:10):
sparks out to change. She's been featured alongside some of
the biggest names in personal growth, and her upcoming book,
Every Day I'm Brave, cultivating resilience and to gain freedom
from fear dives into what it really means to face
fear in consistency. Please welcome the inspiring Rennie Zukin. Hello, Rennie, Hello,
(02:31):
how are you? I'm doing well? Thank you, Thank you
so much for joining us. How are you doing great?
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I'm so thrilled to be here. And of course sending
lots of good vibes to your buddy who is not
feeling so great right now after that game.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, he is a little younger than me, and I
do tell him there's a reason why I stopped playing
football and other kind of silly things. When you get older,
your body doesn't really want to do those things.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's true.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
So writing is kind of the best thing that we
can do, right.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
You're right, writing heels and in all sorts of ways.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, it really does. Yeah. So where are you coming
from to join us on the show tonight?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
I am coming in from Iowa.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I live in Iowa City, Iowa, home of the University
of Iowa, which is smack dab in the middle of.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
The United States.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
Amazing. How has it been there? Weather all good? We've
had pretty good sum here in the UK, which is
quite great to see.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
No, this week has been really lovely actually, but normally
it's very very hot and humid, and we have something
here called corn sweat.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Okay, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Of corn farms, so it makes the humidity kind of
stick in the air.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But it's gone today, So I'm I'm grateful for the
gorgeous weather we have today.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
It is kind of referous. So like when it comes
to writing, there's lots of like get togethers and barbecues
and going outside. Does that impact your writing as it
does mine? Because it's certainly does.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
It definitely impacts the social life.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
But you know, you know sometimes I actually really love
to write on my porch and when it's yeah, that's
sticky and gross, Yeah, then I find other things to do.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, Well, writers have to have other hobbies, right, So
what's your go to if you're not if you're not
writing or working on your every day.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Yes, if I am not writing or working or mentoring,
I'm actually singing.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
I play in a local cover band.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
A lot of just have a lot of fun with
my friends and relive you know, some good eighties and
nineties tunes and amazing.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Yeah, it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
What kind of what kind of songs? Everything will specific genre.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Mostly pop rock, do a little indie here and there.
But a long time ago I wrote some original music,
but it's been about a decade since we played any
of that.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So favorite song? Is there? One? There?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Oh? Favorite?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
It's a tough question. When you were singing if you
love music, it.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
Is right all of them? Well, I would say.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Probably one of Well, Okay, I have a new favorite
because my co lead singer likes to try new things
every now and again, and he actually decided that I
should sing Pink Pony Club by Chapel.
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Rooney Familiar and I was.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Like, I don't know if I can do that, but
I did it and it was a ton of fun,
and I think it's my new favorite now.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Brilliant. I think I think a lot of people who
are writers may have not a lot, but some people
definitely have dabbled in writing music or other forms of
writing growing up. And I think that's a sign that
that creativeness is in there. So, you know, has writing
always been something on your mind? Because you've had a
lot of different sort of avenues you've worked in. So
what led you to typic am a writer?
Speaker 3 (06:09):
I love this question.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah. Writing has definitely been the through line for me.
When I was a teenager, I started keeping a journal.
You know, at the time, it was you know, mostly
just kind of like the play by play of what
it was like to be twelve and thirteen, which you know,
it's interesting to kind of look back on. But as
(06:31):
I got older too, I was able to reflect a
lot more it and writing became really the only way
I could hear myself think.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
And I don't know if that sounds.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Weird, but to like know what I was actually thinking
and feeling. It wasn't always clear to me until I
could see it.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
On the page. Yeah, yeah, so that's kind of how
it started. And then in college I had.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Well, I went through a couple of different majors first,
about three or four. I was pre met at one
point and failed chemistry miserably, so I, you know, took
stock at what I was good at and I was
getting a's and all my English classes. So so I
went that route. But I learned that, you know, despite
(07:22):
procrastination and other things, that got in the way that
writing was something that was I don't want to say easy,
because it's not easy, but it flowed. There was an
effortlessness to it that I appreciated, and then I got
to really hone my skill, which you know, which was
(07:43):
a lot of fun. So I don't think, you know,
it's one of those things where where I think writing
chose me more than I chose it, just because it
really was. It allows me to communicate in a way
that I can't otherwise.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, because you've you've obviously worked in kind of the
mental health arena, working on resilience and things like that,
which I think really do play well into an author's life.
But going from sort of pre med how did that
come into your life? How did you start working on
what is obviously a big passion fore now and the
driving force for everything you do? How did that start?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Mm hmm for me? Writing?
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Really? You know, as I mentioned as a kid, it
became a tool for self learning, self.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Actualization, and.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
You know, as I went through I actually, you know,
I'm an educator too.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I taught for.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Many years and one of the things that again like
this through line is how can I use writing to
really amplify learning, whether it's you know, academic learning or
it's you know, self reflection learning or some combination thereof,
(09:04):
and the sort of birds I view, and the way
we're able to shift our perspective to change the narrative.
I mean, you know, especially right, mental health is a
is a is an ongoing evolution of learning not only
about oneself, but in relationship to other people too. So
(09:30):
understanding like how my brain works and how other people's
brains work, and what I can do to kind of
rewrite the narrative so that what we're creating together is
so much nicer.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
I think it's just really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, well I think it is. It's really important. And
I think mental health is becoming a lot more in
the forefront of everything these days, and it's much more
sort of what's the word researched and out there as
it was previously maybe ten years ago. So how do
you think that has changed and how do you think
that has affected what you've been doing?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Well, you know, I think one of the reasons it
wasn't talked about previously or researched a lot.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Is because of you know, there's a lot of shame.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
I think that's really connected to oh, if I'm having
this problem or I'm thinking this way, or why can't
I get myself together? And you know, a lot of
that stems from sort of cultural societal.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Expectations of who we're supposed to be.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
And if we're looking out at the world, then we're
only seeing other people's outsides and what is you know,
happening on the outside.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
We don't actually have a full picture of anybody.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And and there's the sense of wanting to show up
in the world a certain way, which is fine, and
we don't want to do that at the expense of
being able to be fully who we are, express ourselves,
to have a full range of human emotions even right
(11:20):
We're not supposed to be angry, We're not supposed to.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
Be sad everything, you know, and that's just not natural. So,
you know, I'm thrilled.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
That we're having these conversations more and more that there
is more, you know, research happening in neuroscience. We're really
understanding how the brain works, how the brain and body
work together, and you know, in different ways that we
can we can make a better life for ourselves and
(11:49):
each other because of that. So I think, you know,
for me writing the book every day, I'm brave. It's
my story, it's my struggle with different and you know,
fear based diagnoses and things. But it's also you know,
it's also a catalyst for amplifying that message of you know,
(12:13):
this isn't shameful that we have that we struggle. In fact,
what's important is what we're able to learn and how
we're able to create better lives for ourselves because of it.
And so I just think, you know, I'm thrilled to
see the shift, not that I want more people to
(12:35):
be struggling, but but I think it's more that people
have been struggling all along, and now we have a
place to have the conversation about it.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
Yeah, and both myself and my co hosts have had
conversations about our personal struggles on the show, and it's
it's because of how things have evolved, especially with men's
the stigma about men's mental health, that we've been able
to do that, I feel like, more openly and to
get the feedback that we've had for it. So I
think it's definitely put people in the better position. And
(13:06):
I've recently come off a Trauma Informed Practitioner course as well.
I'm a teacher as well, so I'm using that the
best my ability to teach young people who are between
fifteen and eighteen to try and engage them in a
way where they can try and discuss that which is
really difficult.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
It is, Oh my gosh, but I just like you
saying that just fills my heart with like so much joy.
You know, I taught middle school, high school kids and
the teenagers today and especially you know, the young men.
I mean, I'm so thankful that you and your partner
(13:46):
here are having these conversations.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
It's so vital to be a part of this.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Movement and momentum of having the conversations about mental health,
especially for young men, because there isn't a lot of
places where it's safe to have those conversations.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
And so bravo, thank you for doing this work.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
I feel like, and it's similar with a lot of
other things. So people who become experts in something after
they've done it enough times, that's when they do become
that expert where they have the knowledge based because of
their experiences. Right, So is this kind of the reason
that led you to write your book, your experiences and
your learnings from that journey that created every day and brief.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Absolutely, one of the things that kept propelling me forward
in the process of writing was this idea that I
was writing as a way to show up in service
to other people, you know, anxiety, depression. They can lie
(15:00):
to us a lot and tell us we're alone and
that note we're broken, and that you know, and it's
simply not true. And for me to be able to,
you know, write the book with in such a personal way,
you know, I had to keep remembering that if only,
(15:24):
you know, if one person reads this and feels less
alone or feels like they have more hope or that
there's a pathway to move forward, then I've done my job.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
Yeah, because yeah, it's it's a journey.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
So we'll talk about the book in a little little while.
But what was the the release process like for you
in that case? Then, with so much personal sort of
information on the line, how did you feel about that
when it was released?
Speaker 3 (15:53):
It? Uh, you know, nervous certainly. You know, I spent.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
I spent a lot of time as I was writing
getting support to essentially cultivate my own bravery for even
putting this out there. You know, how can I show
up in integrity? So that if you know, because certainly
there's gonna be people who don't like it.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
There's gonna be people who have judgments about me.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
There's gonna you know, and I had to surrender all
of that.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Doesn't mean it doesn't affect me.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Not necessarily, but like I didn't want it to stop
me from you know, being able to put this out
and so I did. I got support from a couple
of different people along the way, both writers and a
woman who's a dear friend and a mentor for me
(16:51):
who actually lives in Sweden. She really helped me kind
of uncover some of those limiting.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Beliefs that would get.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
In the way about my own worth, right, And so
so I did some deep work along with it, so
that by the time the release came, you know, a
few weeks ago, I was so ready to put it
out there and to just surrender to whatever was.
Speaker 3 (17:17):
Going to happen. And it's and I'm I'm so grateful
that like.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
You know, passed me new to do that work as
and lined up that support. But I also think that
there's something about the tangibility of the book now, like, yes,
it's my story, but it's been crafted and curated in
a way that.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
You know, it's a part of me, but it's not
the whole of me.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
Yeah. So so on the flip side, then you had
obviously good feedback as a result of releasing that book.
So how did that feel to get feedback and receive
positive sort of feedback as a result.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
It feels pretty darn good. I spent I still do.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I mean, I I just have tears of gratitude and
seeing the responses and from people I know and people
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
I had one.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
The husband of somebody I know who I've never met
in real life, the husband.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
Out of the.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Blue sent me a message and said, you know, my
wife read this book.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
She couldn't stop raving about it.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
So I read it too, and he said thank you
because I understand my wife so much better now and
what she's going through with her anxiety and her o
CD than I ever could have.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
And I mean, like there was I was speechless.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Like like, okay, we're doing this, this is working.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Like that is incredible, because you know, most people who
write a book want people to enjoy it. When you
have feedback like that, you know you've made a difference
to somebody's life.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So that is one of the best things you can have, right.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, it's I mean I'm honored, like I just am
from this like humbled, grateful state, and and on a
on a very personal scale, it also makes me grateful
for the struggles that I went through because it gives
(19:41):
it a purpose like I.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
And you know, and still go through. I mean, let's
let's be real, right, it's not a cure. We're not one.
You know, my life is a lot better now, but.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know it's because I have the tools and the
strategies to keep going.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
But it gives it a purpose that.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, it's understanding that the word that's mentioned is resilience,
and you know it is creating that and from experiences
where you've had to be resilient and to grow as
a person. So I think that's a testimony to building
your own character through that sort of diversity. Yeah, in
that situation, then if someone wants to write a book
(20:30):
where they need to be brave and they want to
talk about things that will be personal to them, what
advice would you have for those people.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
To just start.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
When you're writing a book, it's going to go through
so many iterations before it gets in the hands of
other people that just get the stuff out first, write
everything you want to write, However it's coming out because
it's not going to look like that on the back end,
and it'll be cathartic for you.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
So if you constantly are like, oh, what's somebody going
to think? Or what's how am I going to be judged?
Then nothing's going to come out.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I think that is certainly the case for in sort
of every genre that you can write in. It's just
not the will to just to go for it. Yeah. Wow,
what is your writing process?
Speaker 4 (21:24):
Like?
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Are you a panster or plotter? In terms of a
nonfiction book like this, how how did you compose it?
Speaker 3 (21:32):
For me, it was.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
I wanted to try to follow a structure, but I'm
not very good at that. Uh, there was you know,
their structure, and there's flow in their structure and there's flow.
And what I knew I didn't want was just kind
of a wrote like this happened, then this happened, then
this happened. Yeah, like this really is a narrative, Like
(21:59):
this really is is you know, the.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Hero's journey, the hero's journey. And once I.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Knew, I mean, this book had been tapping me on
the shoulder for probably a decade, and I had written
blog pieces here and there that I could use. But
when I got serious about it and I was like, Okay,
now's the time I'm going to start. I called up
my first ever writing coach, and I said, Okay, help
me walk me through this, because especially when it's your
(22:30):
own life, like, you got to have somebody on the
outside to be like, Okay, this is what makes sense.
I don't know what this has to do with it.
So she really helped me curate the narrative arc at
the beginning, and then I worked with it and then
you know, and with my editors along the way. I
(22:53):
wanted to make sure that each chapter also had that
learning piece and so at the end of every chapter
there's prompts, and so in order to have those journal prompts,
we had to even you know, what's the narrative arc
and the lesson of each chapter.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
So going through all that, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
It was both it was you know, here's the structure,
we're going to fill it in with the flow. We're
going to look at it again. How are we going
to restructure it so it makes sense? And so I mean,
you know, six seven iterations of what the structure was.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Yeah, it was definitely a big part of the process.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah. I think for someone who might be getting into writing,
maybe for the first time, if it picked this show up,
there is a lot more work to be done after
you think you're finished. Just putting that out there, not
to ski you, but that is something that's come up
tonight and many times before, so just be aware of that. Yeah,
work is not done.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
No, it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Yeah, So with a writing coach, what you talked about
there is incredible. The fact that they worked with you
to create that concept and to go over with you.
I think that's amazing to work as a team, and
often the case is that when we have authors that
work with the publishers and their editors, they do work together.
When they have a good system, they work well together.
Were there any other bits of information or advice that
(24:14):
the writing coaches gave you that you kind of took
away for your own writing sort of journey. Hmm.
Speaker 3 (24:20):
That's a great question.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
On the Spotlight.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
I know, I was like, I just.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
You know, for me, I really leaned into their expertise
as people who had gone through this process with other writers,
and I think for me, I have a little bit
of a you know, stubborn streak or I think I
know the right way to do things.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
And so it was a practice in.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
In really leaning in on somebody else's expertise. You know,
it was funny when you said, you know, it takes
a lot lot longer.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
That was me as a first time first timer.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
I was like, okay, eight months, let's go, I'll be
done right three years.
Speaker 3 (25:09):
Three years. It is.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It's a little relentless. I mean, there are some people
out there that rewrite so many times. You talk in
twenty thirty times. Some people can fortunately do it four
or five, six times. But you know, the more you
do it, the better. But then you don't want to
be stuck in that position where you're stressed that you
want to keep doing it because you don't think it's
(25:33):
good enough. So having that extra set of eyes, like
you said, can be kind of crucial.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
Yeah, well, and then it's done enough, right.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
I had to get, you know, because you could stare
at a sentence for you know, forever until you think
it's going to be right. But yeah, so at you know,
at some point you just have to throw up your hands.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
Okay, this chapter is done. It's done enough. I'm good
with it.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And were there anything you took out with this book
that you kind of feel you wanted to keep in.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
M I did park quite a few pieces, but I
didn't have I don't feel like they're missing. Yeah, and
in fact, I think it was. I think I definitely
saw how it was better without it, especially when again
(26:30):
coming from that narrative arc versus what are all the
pieces of my story?
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Like those are two different things.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
Yeah, prilliant. All right, what we're gonna do is it
going to play a little trailer. This is for the
Amazon KDP Kindles Storyteller Awards. So any indie authors listening
or watching this back or watching it live, you've got
till the thirty first of this month, which is just
five days away to enter. Yeah, sorry, checking my watch.
There five days away, so please do consider this and
(27:01):
then it's very easy to enter. You just need to
upload your KDP, your manuscript to KDP with a simple keyword.
I'm going to play the trailer. Pay attention if that's
going to relate to you, And if you do that,
then let us know we'd be happy to support you
in any way we can. So I'm going to play
this and when we come back we'll talk about every
Day and Brave in a bit more detail. And if
(27:23):
you have got questions, guys, please send them in. We'll
wait till the end. That's why we do it as well.
But here's the trailer. Hey, writers, what if it in
published could earn you a massive twenty pounds?
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Imagine. Well you don't need to imagine, because that's exactly
what's on offer with Amazon's Kindle Storyteller Award twenty twenty five.
This amazing military prize is back for its ninth year,
and it's open to anyone who self publishes a book
like direct publishing in any.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Genre, any genre. Yeah, whether you've written your first or
your tenth novel, it doesn't matter. If it's unpublished and
written in English, then you can enter that award with
the chance of winning.
Speaker 4 (28:12):
Yeah, and it's really easy to enter.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
So just publish your book through.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
Kindle Direct Publishing between the first of May and the
thirty first of August and make sure it's enrolled in
KDP Select.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
Yep. I think you'd be absolutely mad not to, as
a twenty thousand pound prize would help any author boost
their career massively, and our previous guest and last year's winner,
J D. Kirk said that took his career to the
next level after winning that award and taking it home.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Yeah, and it did. These books are everywhere, so in
order to enter, head to Amazon dot co dot uk
forward slash Storyteller to find out more.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
The Kindle Storyteller Award.
Speaker 4 (28:51):
Is open now, so publish enter, Okay, story out there.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, we'll support you all the way, you know, we
will do that. Leave you with this good luck. The
WCCs together is one we get it done. There you go,
As I said, you've got five days left enter that competition.
It's a simple keyword and none of the previous win
is said that they expected to win that, so there's
no reason yours can't. If you're already uploading it, just
(29:17):
put one keyword in. You're in the competition. Twenty grand
it's a big prize. Yes, amazing, amazing. Oh, Renny, every
Day I'm Brave? Can you let everyone know what that's
all about? Please?
Speaker 2 (29:29):
I can?
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Every Day I'm Brave is the story of transforming your
relationship to fear so that you can create a better
life for yourself.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
More connection, more courage, more joy.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
You know, the bits and pieces of my story as
I go through different diagnoses anxiety, OCD, agoraphobia, panic disorder,
and yet here I am now, you know, traveling, going
out in the world, doing this work, having these amazing
(30:06):
conversations with people like you.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
So it's possible.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Amazing. Yeah, it sounds like a really good message. And agoraphobia.
Can you explain, I've never heard that before.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
You've never heard that.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
Well, so, actually, agoraphobia is broadly, I think represented as
people who don't ever leave their house. Okay, but that's
not exactly what it is. So the basis of agoraphobia,
which I learned, is really about doing basically everything you
(30:39):
can to avoid the possibility of having a panic attack
or dealing with the anxiety. So oftentimes that means you
don't leave your house very much. And certainly my world
got very very small. The only time I did leave
the house is if I had to take my kids
somewhere to something, maybe a grocery store trip, you know,
(30:59):
if I wasn't instacarting it. And you know, a full
radius of about you know, six or ten square miles
around my house. I didn't go much further than that
for a couple of years, so just yeah, it was
it was a journey.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, Hence you mentioned that the factor you're out and
about and doing things like this now, So that's that's
a great estament to the distance you've come with it.
And like I said, it's great that you've managed to
get to a point where you've shared all this for
other people as well. Mentioned the how it's working on
the inner to create that spot on the outer. So
(31:39):
without giving too much away, all being quite brief with it,
how can someone start to make that change?
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Well, the premise right, doing the inner work to see
the outer change really comes from this idea that the
world that we see on the outside.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
Is really cultivate and created by.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The work we do on ourselves. How we're showing up
in the world. And you know, people in our lives
are a mirror for us. They're they're teaching us, whether
we like, whether we want to learn the lesson or not.
Sometimes right, some some teachers come to us lovingly, some
teachers come to us.
Speaker 3 (32:22):
A little more challenging.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
But but it's it's the sense of when I can
find more peace within, when I can stay grounded and
centered amidst challenges the better off that we are collectively
as well, Because I'm going to show up better for
(32:45):
you know, my kids, my family, my students, my clients,
I'm gonna and they in turn, right, then it becomes
this ripple effect of.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
How I'm able to be in my own like.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
To show up as I am and to feel comfortable,
allows other people to do the same, and and it
can make some of that, you know, the dissonance kind
of fall away. But certainly there's there's a lot to
get to that point. There's you know, there's different kinds
(33:22):
of work to do, there's different ways we can show
up better for ourselves. And you know, the premise really
here is that it takes courage to do so, it
takes self compassion and you know, doing a little bit
of the work step by step to be mindful and
(33:46):
aware of even the fact that we want something different
than what our experience is.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, definitely. I mean there's a lot of people that
self diagnose and you know, uminate on it constantly without
actually taking that step. If someone's in that position, what
advice would you have for them?
Speaker 2 (34:07):
I definitely reaching out to somebody outside yourself, whether it's
first a friend or a trusted you know, family member,
or mentor or teacher.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Or a boss.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
And if you don't feel like you have anybody, something
like this, you know, this conversation, finding a book, some
way that you can connect outside yourself.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
Because again, like our brains can make up.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
All sorts of stories, yeah, that are changeable, you know,
our thoughts. Some of our thoughts are just thoughts. Our
feelings are just feelings, and everything is changeable. And so
I definitely encourage anybody who's in a point of you know,
(34:55):
feeling like they don't have a way through or they
don't have somebody to you know. I mean, we've got
crisis lines here, you know that first step, and that
takes courage because it is scary to reach out.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I can't tell you how many times I would like
start a text to a friend and be like, oh,
I'm really struggling right now, and then I'd erase it
because I don't want to be a burden, right, You
don't want to be a burden to other people. But
you know what, our people want to help us, they do,
and so we need to let them.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
It's true because I put myself down for a counseling
waiting this once and it was months long. Yes, And
you know what it's like. You get into a situation
where your things build up and you're a you're in
a space, a dark space, I be honest, And by
the time that that came around, it was like, I
(35:46):
don't you know, I don't need it anymore in my mind.
So it's one of those things that I think take
in more initial or media actions sometimes is better. And
perhaps your book could be a way to do that. Mmm.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
I sure hope, so I think so.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
And even like the writing, I mean again, like getting
it out, being able to express all those even if
it's a you know those dark thoughts, right, get them out,
write them all out on paper, and then you know,
find a nice little tin king or something you can
light them on fire.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
And I think people will be amazed, how you know,
things like substat these days you've got people following other writers. Yea,
that even those dark thoughts that you have, if you
are brave enough to share them, as we've talked about,
you'd be amazed how many people resonate with that. And
we'll talk to you about it. Just by putting that
out there. Yeah, I think that's something to really keep
(36:42):
in mind. You know, you could hate that idea, but
within six months you could be a voice for a
lot of people in the same situation, right, So yeah,
potentially that could be worth considering as well. But yeah,
for people like that of course, who would be writing
as potentially people who write for creative process, but also
(37:05):
that information. What about people who just don't write anything
at all? Would that be the same for them? They
just get a notepad or on their phones or whatever,
they just get those thoughts out there.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, I think you don't have to be a writer
to write the stuff down.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Yeah, using the notes app. I use the notes app
all the time for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Uh. And if you and if writing really is not
your thing, you know, speak it, do an audio recording,
write something that you know, or just you know, find
a place where where somebody will listen.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
M absolutely, So, who would you say your ideal target
is for your for your novel?
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Who should who should go out and buy this?
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Well, not a novel, but the target audience certainly anybody
who's who's struggled with you know, anxiety or CD, any
you know, mental health diagnosis, but also the people who
love them, right, anybody who wants a better understanding. But also,
you know, everybody's got challenges. You know, a lot of
(38:13):
my a lot of my readers are you know, women
and men who are adults. You know, they've gone through
life a little bit.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
I keep thinking, maybe my next piece is is for
the the every day I'm brave for the teenager because
those kids are.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Still deeply embedded in here.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
But you know, if you're looking for, you know, validation,
affirmation that you know that that it's normal to have
fear and challenges and that there's a different path that
you can take, it's possible.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yeah, amazing, excellent. Okay, And before I actually move on,
what's the next step in terms of you're writing, what
is there something on the go now or are you
planning something.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
I do have some thoughts about books in the future.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
It's going to be a minute before that comes through.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
And what I really want to do with this message is.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
Cultivate really more of a community around.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Bravery and showing up in our lives in a way
that can cultivate change.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
And so you know, I've got I've got a little Facebook.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Community that I've just started to hone in on, and
I've got some ideas for some programming that I'd love
to bring out into the world. That of course will
probably include some journaling components and things like that. But
and I gotta you know, maybe there's a substack. I
(40:05):
have a blog on my website, but you know, I.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Keep vouching for substack because it builds your email a
list at the same time. Yeah, so it's kind of
a really good tool for that. What's your Facebook group
call for anyone who might want to pick that.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Up every day? I'm brave community. That makes sense, Yeah,
brilliant figured we go simple?
Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, all right, everybody. What we're going to do is
go into the final part of the show where we
ask a bit more random questions. And there's a chance
for you guys. If you have questions for our guests tonight,
please do send them in. But I'll start us off.
So I sent you some lovely questions ahead of time,
because it can be quite tricky. Yes, okay, if you
(40:44):
could take the ending from anything fictional, whether that be
a TV show, a movie, or a book, what ending
are you going to change your way?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
So I have a couple of things here.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
So one was I don't know if Severance is a
thing for you and your audience on Apple TV this right,
So the end of the second season. I'm not going
to give away any spoilers, but I was furious.
Speaker 3 (41:13):
I was furious how that ended.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
It felt really it felt unfair, and I can't necessarily
articulate why, because there's the sense of like, who's struggling
the most when they're all like in this horrible spot.
And I'm really being careful about my words in case
(41:40):
I haven't.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Seen it, but like you can say the spoilers, I mean,
if they were.
Speaker 3 (41:48):
But yeah, yeah, no, I just I just felt like.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
There was a disservice to the people who were the
most sad.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
Yeah, Severance for me, honestly, I love a TV show,
I really do. And I tried twice to watch Severance
and I couldn't get into it.
Speaker 3 (42:15):
That's okay.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I also tried twice first and then I went in.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
But I was also like in the thick of winter
here and didn't want to do anything else.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
Interesting that you also had to do that twice?
Speaker 3 (42:32):
I did.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, I wasn't so sure about it. I wasn't so sure,
but then.
Speaker 1 (42:38):
I got online reviews and TikTok accounts raving about the show.
I was like, I'm gonna have to see this, and then,
especially when something like that is overhyped, maybe that then
I fak it up and I'm like, what are we
talking about?
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Yes, yeah, totally, I totally get that.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Yeah, m interesting. Okay, if you could take a character
from the world of fiction, and I'm not going to
say put it into your novels, because again you mentioned
not novels and a different kind of book. Take a
character from the world of fiction again TV, film and
book and take that character on the day out. I'll
change it a little bit. What character would you take?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Well, this one I had a heck of a time
with because I'm like, who are my favorite characters?
Speaker 3 (43:26):
Who would I want to spend a day with? I
even my kids were.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
My teenagers were trying to help me think of things
and people, and I am a big Gray's Anatomy fan,
and I thought.
Speaker 3 (43:39):
They were like, oh, why don't you go hang out
with Meredith Gray?
Speaker 2 (43:41):
And I was like, I don't really want to do
surgery all day, and then they're like, no, you could
go on an adventure. But ultimately I landed on a
book that I have returned to again and again. I
started reading it when I was I think in you know,
seventh grade, twelve years old, and it's actually more like
(44:03):
a parable Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Speaker 3 (44:06):
It's my it.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
It's a story about the seagull that is documented.
Speaker 3 (44:14):
It's like real life documented.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
This guy, you know, watches the seagull and its journey
on the beach, but then it becomes a character in
the story and the and the seagull itself is working
on ascension basically, like he really wants to fly, and
the rest of the flock is just like, no, we
(44:37):
just want to scrange for our food here on the beach.
And so he's you know, he's doing something different. And
you know, obviously there was something about that seagull that
I really really bonded with because I felt so different
for a lot of my life. And my mom bought
(44:59):
it for me too at the time, and you know,
obviously I needed it. Anyway, I thought, Okay, I want
to hang out with this seagull, and yes, like this
seagull needs to be able to talk to me, Evan, Right,
I'm not just gonna you know, if we're going to
go all all in on this fictional character, and I
would love to be able to fly.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
With this bird.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
And see what it sees and and get a real
glimpse of the world from this higher view, you know,
feel the wind on my face. So I guess it's
more about me getting to be on the adventure with
the fictional character more so than you know, all the
fun stuff we could do here on land.
Speaker 1 (45:46):
Well, I've had over three hundred and sixty shows and
never once since someone said they wanted to take a
seagull out for the day. But I appreciate the answer.
I think it's a good one. Oh good, Yeah that was.
I didn't know where you're going with that, but I
get it. Yeah, where would you fly to if you
could right now go somewhere flying? Where would you go?
Speaker 2 (46:08):
Hm, somewhere that has a beautiful white sandy beach, clear water,
a nice cool breeze, and no technology.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
Yeah, yeah, I like that idea. Okay, I want to
if you were going to write another book, This is
kind of a question I do like to ask people. Yeah,
a lot of people go on research trips for their novels,
but in your case, just somewhere you'd like to go
and read. Would that also be a nice sandy beach.
(46:44):
Or do you like where's your kind of writing sort
of hub. Do you like your office? Do you mentioned
the porch? Would you go each or a cafe? What
would your choice be?
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Oh? Yeah, I definitely would be not in my office.
This is not the most creative space.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
Out in nature.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Definitely walking like a place, you know, maybe a nice
hike because that actually, you know, being out in nature
and walking and moving gets the ideas flowing and then
I can come back and kind of write through them.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
That's definitely a writing tick We've put out there a
few times people questioning writer's block or lack of motivation.
Going for walk is always an answer I came up
with because I agree with you one hundred percent. You'd
be surprised if you just sat there and you can't
get the words out. Go for a walk and your
brain starts giving you those words and you want to
walk back quicker. It just seems to happen. I don't
(47:42):
know why, but it does ys well.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
And that's the only reason I carry the phone with
me too. I can either do a voice memo or
notes app while I've got when the ideas come.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, yeah, So if we fast forward many years from now,
when you're looking back at your life and say you've
written maybe a couple more books in this genre, and
and you're helping people out, what would you hope would
be your What would be success to you in that situation?
Speaker 3 (48:11):
You know, for me, I think success.
Speaker 2 (48:16):
Would certainly be the positive impact that I see happening
with others as a result of my writing. If we're
looking far into the future, you know, this is definitely
not my last book. I have ideas for novels, I
have ideas for the next nonfiction piece, and each.
Speaker 3 (48:43):
Of those.
Speaker 2 (48:46):
Really is about storytelling being the means in which we
understand our human experience. You know, from the beginning of time.
You know, before people wrote stories, they told their stories.
And so for me, success would be able to spend
(49:07):
my time connecting with story, connecting other people and their stories,
and using that as a way for us to continually
evolve into a more connected and compassionate place to be living.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Amazing. That's a great answer. I like that, brilliant. If
you can, let's see if you could recommend one or
two books for so not yours, that someone could pick up,
maybe ones that may have inspired you or something you love.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah. I just finished reading this one.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
It's Always Been Me by Megan Walrod, and it's a novel.
I don't often read novels, and this one I ate
up in like two days. It's a beautiful story really
about your relationship to yourself and how that can get
(50:05):
clouded as you go through life. It was really inspiring.
So definitely that one, and then oh so many.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
These questions that you know.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Right, right, I know, I mean, I guess I'd go
back to this Jonathan Livingston Segull, and actually talking about
it makes me think I need to reread it.
Speaker 3 (50:28):
And it's a little one.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
It's a little bitty book called Jonathan Livingston Seagull.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
I also have it up there, but by Richard Bach.
Speaker 2 (50:39):
He wrote a bunch of stuff and it was kind
of my.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
My intro.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
Into understanding the metaphysical a little bit before I even
understood that it was metaphysical, okay, because it's really grounded
in in you know, in real life.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I found that book, so I'm quite interested in that now.
Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, pure curiosity, right, well, and it's a parable right,
so it's it's really the whole thing is an extended
metaphor or yeah, how to really evolve into your next
best self.
Speaker 3 (51:24):
And the challenges that you have to go through in
order to do that.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
Absolutely well, before we do wrap this up, where can
people find out more about you? Where can they stalk
you on socials? And where can they pick up your book?
Speaker 3 (51:37):
All the places?
Speaker 2 (51:38):
So every day I'm Brave dot Com is the site
for the book, which also is linked to my website
everywhere on socials, I'm.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Just me Renees.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
You can Renees, you can dot com, Instagram, Renas you can.
It's just, you know, I like to make an easy
path for folks to to find this work.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
Yeah, brilliant, Rennie. You've been absolutely wonderful to chat to.
And I have got a copy of your book. I
haven't got into it yet, but it's definitely my kind
of read. The past few years, self help books, those
sort of books been right up my street. So I
will be getting stuck into this and I will try
and let you know my thoughts and review up there
for you. But I just want to say thank you
(52:23):
for sharing your story with us, thank you for a
great conversation, and I hope you enjoyed yourself.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
Absolutely this has been a pleasure a lot of fun
and a lot of great questions.
Speaker 3 (52:33):
I'm excited and great to be here with your audience.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah, brilliant, right, Thank you everybody for those tuning in,
I can see there's quite a few of you, a
few on Facebook, so perhaps they're from Rennie's fan base,
Rennie's groups. If that's the case, hello to you, and
I hope you bought the book. I'm sure you have done,
but thank you everybody. As I mentioned, this is the
first show of for this week, which is crazy. We're
(52:58):
back on Thursday and then two on Friday, so please
keep an eye out for those and again hit the like,
leave a comment. Any follow up questions please do send
them in on social media. I'm sure Rennie I would
love to have a look at those and I will
happily share them as well. So thank you so much.
Look after yourselves, and as we mentioned, there are helplines
if you're affected by anything we spoke about. If you
(53:20):
need support a general chit chat, we're here for you
and please do lean on us for that as well.
So thank you and stay safe everybody. Bye.
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