Why a Top Publicist Wrote Her Own Bestseller: A Conversation with Georgina Moore.

Georgina Moore is an author and seasoned book publicist with a long-standing career in the publishing industry. She worked behind the scenes managing publicity for major authors such as Patrick Gale, Penny Vincenzi, and Maggie O'Farrell before writing her own debut novel, The Garnett Girls. This novel is a family drama set on the Isle of Wight that has received praise from authors like Lucy Foley and Jill Mansell.✍️ The Insider's Journey: From Publicist to Bestselling AuthorIn a recent live stream, we had the pleasure of sitting down with Georgina Moore, a name well-known to industry insiders and now celebrated by readers worldwide. Having spent years as a top-tier publicist, she's expertly managed campaigns for literary giants, yet it was during the quiet of lockdown that she penned her own story, stepping from the wings into the spotlight as a debut novelist.A New Chapter: Stepping Into the SpotlightGeorgina's transition from promoting other people’s work to creating her own wasn't without its challenges. As she shared in our interview, despite her extensive experience, she initially battled imposter syndrome. She notes, however, that her colleagues and friends were quick to remind her that a publisher's significant investment in The Garnett Girls was proof of its worth. This insightful conversation sheds light on the anxieties and demands that come with the publishing journey, even for those who have navigated it for years.From the Isle of Wight to Eel Pie IslandShe also delves into her latest novel, River of Stars, which is a dual-timeline story. Inspired by her own life on a houseboat, the novel features a 1960s timeline with a young woman's romance with a rock star and a modern-day narrative with her and her granddaughter on Eel Pie Island.Visit her website here.Moore's passion for creating authentic, relatable characters shines through, particularly her commitment to featuring strong female characters over 40 to combat the misrepresentation of this age group in fiction.Advice for Aspiring AuthorsFor all the aspiring writers in our community, Georgina's advice is clear and encouraging: get your words down on paper and write with passion. She suggests ignoring current trends and focusing on the story you are driven to tell. She also stresses the importance of community, emphasising that networking at events and connecting with other writers is crucial for sharing ideas and receiving feedback in an otherwise isolating field.Watch the interview here!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Write and Giving
Each Chat show for another episode of season sixteen. Chris,
how's your week been?

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah, it's all good, looking forward to tonight's guest and
having a good chat. Obviously, still got that sort of
harrogate hangover, not so much in terms of the alcohol sense,
but in terms of you know, missing being there. Wouldn't
be great to be there now with the sunshining and everything.
But yeah, it's been a good week.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
I suppose. I've been doing.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
Bits of reading, bits of writing, trying to encourage you
to keep up with that crime book and things like that.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
So yeah, it's all good.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, it's amazing what that kind of going to that
sort of event does to you. And it's fourth year
of doing that, but it's the first time it's really
sparked interest in me to change my genre completely from
horror and actually start my own crime fiction novel. And
it's gone really well, like the way of taking to
it and used inspirations from you know, my one of

(01:11):
my favorite film, Seven, which I think is one of
the most it's not even underrated, but one of the
best crime thrillers that's out there. So it's great and
one of the authors that I interviewed there, Nikki Allen,
if you remember that, Chris, that was a great interview
with her. She has been a great supporter already. She'd
been asking me to send her my updates of the

(01:33):
drafts and she's been giving me great feedback and it's
just what that networking does at those sorts of events.
So yeah, I'm really excited about that and potentially have
it ready for next year. Is how I get Crime
Writers Festival. But we'll see.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah, you just keep going away and maybe that sucks
the thing. You've got the bug. I've got the crime
bug now, so just keep trigging away and eventually it
will be ready and done dusted.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
But yeah, it's great.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Like I've been reading Michael Connolly, you know, I'm a
big fan of his, and he's got a new standalone
book out this week and to be honest, about fifty
pages in and I'm not hooked. But your book again
did hook me, So you know, clearly doing something right
in the crime genre there, mate, So just just keep

(02:20):
typing away and then we'll be able to enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (02:23):
Yeah, thank you very much. That's that's great praise. I'll
take that already. I'll put that on the back the
Michael Connolly's opener. Yeah. No, honestly, you know, Chris is
right talking about how I get being a couple of
weeks ago. But it's if you, if you live near
a writer's festival, even if it's not that well known,

(02:46):
I urge you to go in and dip your toe
as it were, and not be the classic writers stuff
behind the desk kind of personally and get out there
and be brave and just go on network because you know,
just for the fact that I've got nick Yellen, there's
almost a beta reader now who's given me advice and
comment to me in praising about the work that I've
done is huge for an author. So if you can

(03:09):
network and link kept the local writers and maybe agents
or publishers like we have and stuff like that, you know,
it's it's so crucial to developing your craft as an author.
If going down that route sort of on the business
side is what you want to do, if nothing else,
just to help your writing. But yeah, it's fantastic, and
urge you to have a look, get on the internet

(03:29):
after you've done this show, or watch the show or
listen back whatever, the case may be, and just have
a little search on the internet or what's around you'd
be quite surprised.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
M Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
I watched the documentary this week about Douglas Adams on
Sky and it was really really interesting documentary. It was
all about his life and obviously his books and The
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and stuff, but one of
the things that really stood out to me was that
he actually hated writing. Like whenever he got a deadline
from a publisher, he would always push it and push it,

(04:00):
push it.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
You'd always just rather go out and see.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
The world, spend time, you know, with friends and traveling
and you know, having new life experiences. And then on
one occasion the publisher actually locked.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Him in his own house and said, you need to
finish this book.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
So again, I think the reason why I'm bringing it
up is, you know, writing can be difficult at times,
but it's easier when you've got a community of people
around you that you can bounce ideas off, and you
can share sort of practices and processes and you know,
even drafts some pages and get feedback, because then it's
less of an isolating experience and you don't feel like

(04:40):
you're locked in the house.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
See there was a way to get into it.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
I like that. Well then yeah, good, good way to
bring that back. Brilliant. So let's get tonight's guest on
and you can see where she is locked in right now,
because it's pretty wonderful. So please give me a hand
in giving this guest a nice one. Welcome and as always,
get involved in the say hello to each other network
this way also and send questions throughout but also at

(05:05):
the end with a dedicated section for those questions, but
we welcome them throughout as well. So Tonight's guest is
twenty years to the publishing world, running major publicity campaigns
and working with some of the biggest names in fiction.
During Lockdown, she finally turned her own turned her own
long hell dream into reality and wrote her debut novel.
That novel, The Planet Girls, has gone on to captivate

(05:27):
readers with its rich storytelling and unforgettable characters, not to
mention becoming a Sunday Times bestseller. Now she is here
to talk all about that journey and her latest book,
River of Stars Above Chris's Head. So ladies and gentlemen,
please help me and give it a nice, big warm
welcome to Georgina. More Hello Georgina, Hello.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Hello both of you. Nice to be here.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Thank you so much for joining us. Yeah, it's just
mentioned I should ask you how your week's been. We'll
get to that, but yeah, you're locked in somewhere right
now that sometimes people like myself don't know what that is.
That because I found it fascinated.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
Yes, So I'm in Betsy. She's my boat office. She's
like a mini canal boat and she's moored up by
a houseboat that we live on on Tag's Island, which
is an island in the River Thames near Hampton Court,
and basically very much was helpful when writing River of Stars,

(06:26):
which is set on a houseboat island in the River Thames.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yeah, and you can see where that inspiration came from exactly. Yeah.
So yeah, going back to the to the opening, as
we should go, how's your week been? How is things
in your world and in terms of your writing world
as well.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
Yeah, so I've been so busy with River of Stars,
you know, writing articles, doing radio. I was even on
Women's Hour, which was really exciting because obviously that's quite
a big one. And as a book publicist, I kind
of know what the big ones are, the ones that
really you know, check into the dial on sales and
stuff and that a lot of people come up to

(07:03):
you and go, oh, I heard you on that, so
that was exciting. And then I've just had a week
in the Isle of Wight where we have a houseboat,
which is where I set The Garnet Girls, and it's
kind of my happy place. I love the beaches on
the Isle of Wight. They're beautiful. So I've had a
bit of week off sort of recovering from you know,
like publication can be quite frantic, and it can be

(07:23):
quite exhausting as well, not really in a physical way,
but more just kind of because you're you're sort of
putting yourself out there and the when you do it
for a new book, you're kind of working out what
the themes are and what people are interested in, and
it's quite a lot. There's quite a lot going on
in your head when you're doing those events and when
you're doing interviews just to kind of really and then

(07:45):
you get it and you start to get feedback from
people and you say, oh, you think to yourself, oh,
that's the theme there. So it's a really interesting time,
but quite tiring. So I've been pleased to have a
week off.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, I bet you have. So, being your second novel
that you've released now, yeah, is it the case that
you're now looking ahead all the time and moving on
or are you still taking that time to really appreciate
the milestones you're hitting?

Speaker 4 (08:10):
Oh oh yeah, I mean I think that's so important
to really appreciate what's happening. Just those little moments like
seeing the books side by side. I went to a
bookshop and they had like the Garnet Girls and just thinking,
oh my god, I just had one of those moments.
I was like, God, did I do that? Have I
actually written two? Now? The first time you see it,

(08:33):
the first time you sign one, the first time you
get a real reader. By that, I mean not an
author that's given you a quote, or someone you know
or your family, but like a reader in a bookshop
or a library or wherever who says something about your
book or the characters as if they're real people. Those moments,

(08:53):
I don't think for me are ever going to get old.
So yeah, I really tried. Because there's a lot that's
very anxiety inducing about being published, and obviously there'll be
loads of people listening now who're like, oh, you know,
but you're so lucky because you're published. And there'll be
lots of people who I know because I meet them
all the time, who are aspiring and of course, of

(09:16):
course incredibly lucky, and me more than anyone because I
had quite a lot of advantages from my long career
in publishing. But I think it's made the whole process,
has made me a much more sympathetic book publicist now
because I see what the other side is like and
how hard writers have to work and put themselves out there.
And I do feel for people. I'm quite an extrovert,

(09:38):
as you can probably tell already because now I'm just
rabbiting on but introverts, I think you think they're gonna
have a nice quiet time at their desk and then
they've got someone like me popping up, going could you
just write nine hundred and fifty words? You know, and
they're like, oh my god, so it is. It does
It can be quite intimidating at times, putting yourself out

(10:00):
all the time.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
Yeah, it's really interesting the way you're talking about that.
And what popped in my head was Mark Billingham, who
was celebrating this twenty five years, twenty five best sellers
at the festival, and you know what you're talking about,
the you know, your publisher publicist asking for this bit
of work and that bit of work. But then obviously
you're trying to build on those novels every year. Do

(10:21):
you think someone like in his position he's found a
way to not just be able to write consistently, consistently
in that sort of way, but also deal with those
sorts of requests, and then it's that commit is in
this direction.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah. I mean, I know because I look after a
lot of big I have looked after a lot of
big brand authors, l like Mark. I mean, I look
currently working with Lucy Foley, who's amazing and has a
huge backlist, and now every single one of her thrillers
is in production for big film and TV. So that's
she's really going like that. What happens, I think is

(10:53):
you just have to you need some help. I think
you definitely need an active publicier who's filtering through event requests.
For big authors like Maggia Farrell, event requests are coming
through sometimes two three a day. Wow, I know, So,
I mean I always used to laugh about this When
I first I was looking after an author called Andrea

(11:15):
Levy who wrote an amazing novel called Small Island that
went on to win the Orange Prize and sold over
a million copies. And I remember thinking to myself when
the event, I remember thinking, God, you could do an
event or festival every day of the week, every day
of the year. Basically there is so many across Ireland,

(11:37):
and you know, and so it's extraordinary. So yes, I
think you have to filter, and you have to then
when you get to a certain standing, realize what's worth
your time and what isn't. Whereas I think when you begin,
my personal advice is to say yes to as much
as possible because you're not gonna you guys know this
because you're all about it, but you're not going to

(11:57):
build a community without saying yes.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Oh absolutely, So I'm really interested if you go back
to obviously you've talked about your massive career in publishing
and working in it for so long, Well, can you
take us through the moment where you thought, do you
know what, I don't just want to work in this industry.
I want to be involved and I want my voice
and my story out there.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
And what was that.

Speaker 2 (12:19):
Process, like from that sort of spark moment to you know,
write in the first draft. Going through that process just
enlighten us to that little journey regret.

Speaker 4 (12:29):
Yeah, I mean it's such a stranger because when I
was younger, I was like always scribbling, always writing, always reading.
I mean I was, you know, unlike my kids who
are thirteen and fourteen got screens. I didn't have any
of that distracting me. For I was reading the whole time.
And I always thought I wanted to be a writer.
But then I went to work in a bookshop after

(12:50):
my English degree, and I realized that there was this
whole publicity career and I was like, my I just
I just couldn't believe it. And I kind of worked
my way, and I was working with huge celebrities and
looked after Hillary Clinton when she came for her tour,
and it wasn't the kind of and I got promoted
to kind of direct her quite young, and it's not
the kind of job where you have any free time.

(13:13):
You're just going around the country on these big tours.
I was running a team of about eight people, so
it's quite a big job and it doesn't leave much
time to breathe. And also I'm not very good at
going home on time, so I was having a hay
and it was very social in those days. One day
I'm going to write about it. But those early naughties
in publishing, it's really really was what people say it was.

(13:37):
I mean, you know, I was out a lot at
the Grouch Show and it was very social, so it
was fun, fun times, and I didn't really have a
pause because I was having such a good time to think,
oh damn, I haven't written my book. And then I
had a moment where I thought, oh, I write a
girl about town novel when I was sort of early thirties,
and then I was like, well, do I have anything
to add to that genre? Am I going to say

(13:58):
anything new? So I kind of shell that And also,
to be honest, I was put off. I really was.
I was put off by publishing, seeing how many books
there are, seeing how much like a passionate publicism Marketer
would put into a debut and you might have everything
lined up and it might feel perfect, the perfect jacket,
the perfect selling, the perfect and then just one thing

(14:20):
falls down and it doesn't become that huge word at
the mouth sensation. Everyone wants it to be and it's
frankly dispiriting, and you do see how many books, but
so it kind of shelved it. And then I think, well,
it was really lockdown because I was approaching fifty and
I'd had a couple of people in my life who
got ill, and I don't know, you just get to

(14:42):
that age and I think you start to feel a
bit more mortal. And I thought Lockdown gave me a
lot of my time back because the job a book
publicist job, like lots of people's jobs, completely changed because
we weren't going anywhere. We weren't taking authors into the
BBC or to the Cheltenham Lift or to Harroger or wherever.

(15:02):
We were at home and we were trying to do
everything virtually on online. And so suddenly I wasn't having
late nights and so I started to get up basically
really really early. Had had this idea for a story.
I'd had this idea in the Isle of Wight and
it was pulling me and I just thought, gosh, this
is the time. I've got the time. And also I

(15:23):
was doing online schooling with my kids, which was horrendous.
I never want to do that again. And so I
think this bit before they woke up that was just me.
Was probably the first time in a long time I'd
done anything in my job for that was just for me,
And so it became this amazing escape. And then I
realized how much I was loving it and I was

(15:44):
being pulled back to it, and with the idea forming
and the characters coming to life, it really wasn't It
just sort of pulled me in and I didn't find
it hard to get that first draft down, I have
to say. And I think a lot of people have
said that they you really feel the Isle of Wight,
and I think that's because I was stuck at home

(16:05):
wanting to go to the island. I think that longing
is in there. The other thing people say is that
there's a lot of parties, and I think that's because
I was living vicariously through those Garnet characters with their parties.
So yeah, so I think. And then at the end
of it, I just thought, oh my god, I've actually
written a book. Yeah, and then that was the terrifying part.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, with the Ganner girls having done so well, I mean,
before you you had the publishing insight, obviously, but did
you did you have any expectation that you would be
able to create a book that resonated so well with
the readers.

Speaker 4 (16:41):
I think that because of what I knew of publishing,
and I knew lots of editors were in everyone was
in for it, and there was a bit of a
bonfight over it. I knew at that stage, Okay, I've
got something that people want. But of course, like a
lot of people in publishing were saying as well. And
my own internal monologue was, well, maybe they just want

(17:04):
want it because I'm a publicist and I'm really good publicist,
and they think I'm going to sell my own book.
So that was kind of the thing that was pulling
me back from being optimistic. It was my doubt that maybe,
but of course, lots of people I know, lots of authors,
I have good friendships with lots of authors. I'm very
good friends with a lovely author called Patrick Gale, who's

(17:25):
a brilliant, brilliant writer, and we're good pals. And he
says to me, no, you don't be an idiot, because
they're not gonna they're not all in at this, you know,
with this money at this level for a book that
they don't think it was that they they have to
be sure it's going to sell basically. So, but I
did have a lot of anxiety around that and people
and what's the word when you oh imposter syndrome? That

(17:49):
was really strong in me over the Garnet Girls. But
I've kind of worked through that now and I've had enough,
i think, reader feedback of people I know and trust
to know that there's something in my writing that appeals
to people. But you know, it's what's staggering about writing
is how objective it is. It's just you can get

(18:11):
you know, you're not supposed to go on good Reads.
Everyone told me not to do it. Of course I did,
and you'll have like one person going, these characters are
the most rich, and then the next person going, I
hate these characters there so and you're like, well, how
can that be? So I've kind of learned a lot
by going through that ups and downs. But I tell

(18:31):
you what to answer your question about. Did I know
I could see that the publisher I chose we're all in,
and from sitting where I have sat so long in publishing,
I know that that's half the battle.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah, So you.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Know they've got to be in to convince the world.
It's tough out there, selling books, really tough.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
So have you got advice for someone? Then you mentioned
like aspiring writers, and then we have a few good
tune into the show. Yeah, if they are looking to
get into the publishing world but they don't know where
to start with that, what advice have you got for
them for that?

Speaker 4 (19:09):
I think I've done quite a few workshops now at
festivals and stuff for authors who are either aspiring or
out on inquiry or you know, who are self publishing.
And I think that a couple of things that you
you were just talking amongst yourselves about your own writing,

(19:31):
but basically you have nothing unless you get the words down. Yeah,
so that is just so I didn't really realize that.
I didn't realize how many how much work I would
do in the drafts. So on River of Stars, I
did four drafts. So and I think my I don't
know whether you've ever had her on the show. She's great.
She's a publicist as well, Becky Hunter, she's also novelist.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
But she.

Speaker 4 (19:55):
Was great at the beginning stage because she says that
that first draft is almost you telling yourself the story,
so it's a private to you, and that's such a
nice way of seeing it. As soon as I kind
of figured that out, I was like, oh, I don't
have to have it perfect. It's just me working it out.
Then you can move on to really.

Speaker 5 (20:12):
Drafting it and making it pretty and making it, you know,
making the putting, the bangs, in getting the rhythm. So
I think I would say to anyone, you're not going
to have anything unless you get some words down to
just do it, and I know it sounds easier than
it is, and I think persevere.

Speaker 4 (20:31):
Don't think you're too old. I was fifty when I
got published. I think that's all a nonsense. I think,
don't try to publish to publishing trends. Really don't because
by the time publishing is so slow that by the
time you get there, it could well be over that trend.

(20:51):
So just really write what you want to write. That's
the main thing that you love that you're interested, because
I think the reader can tell if you're Lucy Foley
said a brilliant thing to me when I was saying, oh,
should I set my third book in Paris? We were
talking about how Americans just love Paris, and I was
thinking I might get an American deal if I set
it there, you know, and we were talking strategically and

(21:13):
she said, actually, do you know what, it sounds like
you'd much rather set it in Italy or whatever. You
just need to do it where you really passionately want
to have the setting, because that will make the better book,
and that's all that matters really, So a little bit
of strategy, but mostly what's in your heart and passion
for it.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, that's great, Chris.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah. I was going to say, obviously, you mentioned.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
About before you wrote these books that you were thinking
about writing a girl about the town and you thought
what can I bring to it? Yeah, So my question
is like, what made you write these stories then, and
what did you think, Oh, this is what.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
I'm bringing to the genre, and this is yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yeah, Well I think that I really felt strongly that UK,
in the UK, particularly this family Sagas, had fallen out
of fashion. And I realized that I was right when
when people started going about the Garnic Girls early Doors
comparing me to dead writers, so like I was compared

(22:11):
to Rosamond Pilcher may have BINCHI by the way, all
authors I love and revere as masters of the genre.
But I thought it was interesting because I think that
in America you're allowed to write family saga without it
having this kind of slightly snobby thing about it. So
I felt very much I wanted to return to those
kind of big, long, deep family sagas of generations, multi generational,

(22:36):
which I think had sort of gone out of fashion.
But also I was very, very driven by the need
to see women of a I hate this phrase, but
I'm going to use it anyway of a certain age
in fiction, because the women I was seeing over forty
in a lot of fiction did not I could not recognize.
They were not like anyone I knew. They were not

(22:57):
allowed to be the main character. They were dowdy, they
were old before their time. They didn't represent what I
think is modern womanhood now forty and above. So Margo
and the Garnet Girls was very much by ripost to that,
as as she's like about to turn sixty, but she's
the main character. She's sexy, she's having sex, she's having
sex with a younger man, she loves being the center

(23:19):
of attention. She's complicated and difficult. But so I think
that was also something I wanted to bring to it.
So kind of old and old genre brought bang up
to date. Maybe in that sense.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
It's really interesting how you mentioned the how those women
were portrayed over forty being older than they should be
in that sense of sort of personality. Do you think
that that would be down to maybe younger authors writing
those characters, or just this sort of misconception about what
they like, because when we hit the age of forty,
when you're young, you kind of think forty is really old. Yeah,

(23:53):
when you get there, you think, no, it's not at all.
To be honest, the misrepresentation in that sense.

Speaker 4 (23:59):
I think you're exactly right. I think it's when you
get a twenty or thirty something writing a forty or
fifty year old woman just thinking, oh god, they are
so old, so they'll be boring. And I think you
do get a bit of that. And I think also
things have changed, haven't they. You think about Kate Winslet,
you think about Nicole Kidman, you think about these parts,

(24:19):
You think about Reese Witherspoon, You think about streaming and
Netflix and the opportunities now we're getting for a lot
of these older women characters to come onto the screen.
That's going to change things massively. Like I love this,
I look after Patricia Cornwall, who's amazing and finally on
her twenty ninth book, Kay Scarpetta, one of the most

(24:40):
brilliant fictional creations is coming to the screen and it's
going to be Nicole Kidman. But it's taken the twenty
nine years and people like Jody Foster and all these
amazing women have been, you know, put up for that role.
And what Patricia says is if that had been a
male character, that never we would never have waited this long.

(25:02):
So and now it's now it's a woman of a
certain age. I hate that expression, but you know, you
know what I mean. That's coming to the screen. So
I think that things are changing because of Netflix as
well and streaming and opportunities. It's so great because they
just want content, don't they. They're looking for more.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah, and he says a lot of these women are
kick ass. I appreciate this in some almost almost forty
six and there's no way in hell I'm going to
lead a boring life.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
Love it, love it perfect.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Yeah. So, I mean, we'll talk about Rivers, River of
Stars in the minute. In about four minutes, that's kind
of when we kick into that part of these show.
But before I do writing your first book that I
had a lot of success and a lot of sort
of resonation to the readers and all lot of feedback

(25:51):
talking about how the setting was like a character of
itself and all those great comments. What was your mentality
going into the release of this book and did you
feel any more pressure? Did you feel like, I've got
the first one out there, smashed that at the park
and now I'm excited for the next. How did you
feel about that coming out?

Speaker 4 (26:08):
Yeah, I mean I was. I've been. It's been quite
nerve wracking, to be honest, and I think I hadn't
realized because you start to because I am reading everything.
I suppose I feel like I've got Lee way too
because I'm in the industry. But maybe it's not a
good idea. I'm good friends, good pals with Kate Sawyer,
who's a brilliant writer, and she doesn't look at anything,

(26:29):
and I'm wondering sometimes that that's more sensible, because there
is that there is that tendency to want to deliver
what your readers want. So with River of Stars, when
I'd had the idea for River of Stars way way before,
because there's this wonderful connection between the islands on the

(26:49):
Thames and music and these hotels that all these islands had,
which were amazing music venues. So I'd had the idea
a while ago, and I think when I came back
to it after Gone It Girls, one of my reasons
we're doing so was I knew that I could nail
the setting. I knew that I could capture you know,
I literally am sitting here in the rowers ago. You know,
I've got the cornerant diving the heroin going overhead. I

(27:12):
knew I could get the sounds and the flavors and
put my love for the you know, I've lived here
for sixteen years, so I could get there that love
letter to the Thames, and that I knew that the
readers I had would love that. Because so there is
that worry that you're you know, not playing to order.
But you know what I mean. But River of Stars

(27:33):
is much more romantic than The Garnet Girls, and I'm
just really interested to see how that's going to play out,
because actually, weirdly, Garnet Girls is quite unsentimental, and I
really wanted to do a second chance romance in River Stars.
You know, older characters meeting again, I'm just I love

(27:53):
that because I love the idea of people coming back
together with baggage and having to work through and a
bit going back to my theme, which is I love
damage characters who are carrying a lot of emotional damage
from the past or inherited stuff that they've got to
work through. That's what I'm interested in, So I wanted
to do that. So there, it is a bit more romantic.

(28:14):
So it's just going to be interesting to see how
people respond to that because maybe that's something they're not
expecting from me. But yeah, I think you do you
do think? Oh God, is everyone going to say it's
second book syndrome.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
I think the problem with looking at stuff, Yeah we
have to as writers, especially with our first book, second book,
But the problem with the looking at stuff is we
get so fixated on that. Now we could have fifty
one hundred, two hundred amazing comments and that one negative
will stick in our minds and it's such a pain.

(28:50):
But we do that for some reason.

Speaker 4 (28:51):
It's so true and I'm doing that at the moment
and I mustn't. And actually I think that for me
and I don't know what you two feel like this
about people. I have a couple of authors I know
really well. We've become friends who work at you know,
and also a couple of my really good friends who
are big readers that I know and trust, and often

(29:12):
we agree on what's good and what's not. And I
think with River once, I'd had feedback from you know,
a good, good few, good handful of those, and it
was strong, and they thought it was strong, and they
hadn't been able to put it down or whatever, and
the characters were realistic, realize. I sort of thought to myself,
do you know what, Now, I just have to go
forward and understand that some people it's just going to

(29:35):
be the way it was. Some people will love it
and some people won't. And I have the blessing, not
always a blessing of living with a psychotherapist, and which
you can imagine is not always fun, especially if you're
if you're being psychotherapized for free. But he was funny
because I've you know, I had these five star reviews
regarding as my favorite book of the year, and then

(29:56):
the opposite. If Margot was my mother, I'd like to
kill her kind of extremes. And he said to me, well,
you can't have in life or anything. You can't have
that without that, there is no that is the way
it is. So I've kind of kept that in my
mind and I'm trying to be more measured about it all.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
Absolutely, I like that.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
I'm going to ask you a questions sort of in
and around friends and family obviously, of a lot of
authors that have become friends and some of them are
very successful in their own right.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Obviously, does that.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Help your writing process or does it put an additional
pressure on it? Because I can imagine, like if I
was playing football with Lionel Messy pretty bad about my
football and skills whilst doing it, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Yeah, No, it's easy.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
You just hit it into the top corner or whatever,
and you did look easy, liked someone like Lucy Foleywood,
you know, right, Yeah, yeah, really well, Like I can
imagine it'd be quite an interesting dynamic to be involved.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
In because it's like you've got really good.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Advice from people who are doing really well in the business,
resonating with readers, and then at the same time you're
writing your own books going you.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
Know, would you read this or do you know? Can
you advice?

Speaker 2 (31:22):
And I can just imagine it being a really interesting
perspective to be involved in because there's not many people
who have that opportunity. Well, I just wanted to know, like, yeah,
is it advantageous or does it bring you down at times?

Speaker 4 (31:39):
I think you have to First of all, you have
to sort of think about what genre you're writing in.
You know, there's no point if you're writing commercial women's
fiction to compare yourself to Maggio Farrell, Patrick Gale, who
are writing literary fiction. The two are so so different.
They're different arts, they're different skills. I personally from having
read a lot of literary and a lot of commercial fiction,

(32:01):
and I'm not snobby at all in my reading taste
at all. People often ask me, oh, do you mind
being called family saga, and I'm like, no, you know,
I just want readers. So I think that once you're
settled in your genre, also, it really helps understand I've
seen authors from the beginning of their careers right through

(32:22):
and so much of as long as you are writing
in a way that resonates and with characters that are
believable and all those things, so much of success and
career is about luck and hard work. Luck, hard work
and just the odd break you know, the Richard and
GD promotion at just the right moment that sends you

(32:43):
stress and eric. Look at Jojo Moyes. I was her
publicist on her very first novel. She was published for
ages at odder and didn't have any commercial success. She's
still the same writer, still writing beautiful novels. And then
she hit on the why and she moved publish it
and hit on the right idea and then went stratospheric.

(33:05):
So I think that really helps me. I have a
quite grounded sense of what it takes for a career
to really go stratospheric. And it's a combination of factors. Yes,
the book has to be great, but also it has
to get the right promotions at the right moment and
have everything behind it all hitting at once. And that

(33:26):
could be and something could be off. I know because
I've worked on those campaigns. It could be like the
titles not quite right, or the jacket image wasn't quite right.
It just didn't connect with the consumer and it's such
a shame, and then something else will come along and
it goes Yeah. So I think once you understand that,
that makes you a lot more kind of understanding of Yes,

(33:48):
of course, the book has to be good, but to
really become a huge bestseller, you've got to have all
these things falling into place.

Speaker 1 (33:58):
I got to ask a question very quickly based on that,
and as a publicist, have you ever had then in
that situation a book that you think deserves the absolute
biggest sort of sales ever and it just hasn't hit
and then and it's kind of fallen back? Does that
just stay in the back forever? Or is there a
way to then reintroduce it and make it try and

(34:20):
hit again.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, I mean to have to say, I've worked on
a lot of those, and I don't I don't. I
won't name them because it's not fair on the Yeah,
where you've literally put your heart and soul along, often
working really closely with your marketing and sales colleagues too,
because you really believe in the book or the author
and something hasn't you know. It could be timing also,
a lot of it can sometimes be fashion, you know,

(34:43):
or trends or what's you know being Some books are
ahead of the market, aren't they. They just they come
to earl and later on you think, God, that would
have you know, that would have been perfect about now?
So I think that that can be so disparating. And
to ask your question about can you go back, yes, definitely.
Look at one of my favorite writers, Taylor Jenkins Read,

(35:04):
for example. Now, Taylor Jenkins Read had quite a few
books before. Now. I think there's a brilliant story there
which I don't know all the details of, but I
think a book went off. I think it might have
been this Evelyn Hugo went off in the States. I
think something happened in the States anyway, and then it
all and it hadn't worked here to that level at all,

(35:27):
and then there was this trickle effect and then something
boomed here might have been Malibu Riser, I don't remember
the exact exact order. And then the backlist just started
powerhousing up. And that is an example of what happens
when someone really takes off your bathhole backlist comes with you.

(35:47):
But they did really clever publishing, didn't they. I mean,
I just think I really hats off to them all
that special edition of Evelyn Hugo, and they then they
packaged them so beautifully. Like I said, I think it
did really clever, clever brand publishing on her. But yes,
I think you can you may find that at some
point something just hits and that should take your back

(36:09):
batlist right up. Only sorry. The only problem with that,
of course, is if your batlist is a different publisher.
That is an issue.

Speaker 3 (36:19):
That's true, and publishers wisely.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
Yeah, exactly, and don't run out. A lot of authors
change publishers so many times they run out of publishers.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Yeah again, tip out of publishers. Yeah, I've got a
twofold question. So the first one, when we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
This about writers who deserve more credit than they're actually getting,
there's somebody in my mind, and again I'm not going
to say it is, but my first part.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
Of the question is what can writers like that do
to help themselves?

Speaker 2 (36:53):
And then the second part of the question is how
much have you seen promotion change over the course of
your career? Yeah, because now obviously we've got you know,
writers on TikTok that can overnight bank. It's like they're
on the best sellers list. You know, they could have
a back catalog of you know, five or six books,
but it's just one video with one person holding the

(37:13):
book and then it goes. And so I'm just interested
to know, one, what can people do if they feel
like they're in that position where they've written a few books,
they've got their publishing deal, book, it's just not taking
off for them. A lot of advice where you get
is oh, just keep writing the next book, keep writing
the next book, but that can be quite disheartening.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
More advices and then also what changes have you seen.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
Over the time.

Speaker 4 (37:36):
Yeah, well, I mean basically what you can do is
you could invest money in your promotion. If you've got money,
you could go to an agency like the one I
work out, midspr or any you know freelancers and invest
eight in someone. If you find it difficult a lot
of authors do find it difficult to really activate their

(37:58):
social media, you can actually get all that done for
you in a really clever and creative way. You could
also invest money in promotion and just decide that this
is the campaign that's the most likely and you want
to spend a little extra money and have a dedicated
publicist on it, which is hard for in house publicity

(38:18):
teams to do because they're just so overworked and they
just have book after book after book. But if you
go to a freelance publicist, you know that they're being
paid this fee and they've got to deliver, and what
happens is that you get this kind of you know,
instead of just sending some pitches out, you get the

(38:39):
repitching and pitching and pitching and the tenacious pitching until
you get coverage. But I would only really advise writers
to do that when they feel that their publishers are
really behind the book, because what publicity can't do is
be a silver bullet in isolation. It just doesn't work
that way. It will really works if you've got, you know,

(39:01):
a lined up campaign with some good marketing and retail.
The main thing is retail support, you know, and retail
support costs money. This is what people forget, you know.
For a Richard and Juzy promotion, you're talking about a
lot of a lot of money. So you could be
selected in the first place, but then you publish has
got to be willing to pay for it. So I think,
you know, you might choose to spend some money. I

(39:23):
think I certainly if I'd got to that stage where
maybe my brand was a little bit tired maybe or
I felt you needed a refresh, I would definitely think
about that if I had some spare money. So that's
something that authors can do. And also I do think
that social media is if you like it and enjoy it,
it's worth investing your time in it. There's some brilliant,

(39:43):
brilliant authors who do it really well at Dell Parks
for example. The example for me of someone who does
it really well Jill Mance. Lots of people and they
get really good connection with their readers that way, so
that readers feel that they can talk to them and
reach them, and really good connection with the book blogging community,
who are so important for selling books now because we

(40:04):
have so much less space in the magazines and newspapers
than we used to. And that answers your question about
how promotion has changed. Oh my god, it is so hard.
Sometimes I'm just like, why are we even trying to
do this. It's just like and at the moment, nothing
is spiking nothing. I don't know what's going on. I
think times are tough out there, you know, cost of living.

(40:27):
I think hardbacks are really hard because they went up
in price and people know now that they can just
wait for it to be discounted on kindle paperback price,
So hardbacks are really really tough. And of course we've
got the Dragon books flooding the market with the special editions.
That's the big thing Romanticy at the moment, and it's

(40:48):
sort of pushing out a lot of other books. So
I'd say promotion is really really tough. We lost a
lot of things. We used to have a lot of
space in newspapers. Do you remember that in the Garden
they used to have them the family section that I
used to practically every week get a kind of author
interview on the front of that midweek on Radio four

(41:09):
Libby Purvis. We always used to get authors on that progres.
So slowly we've seen some really good programs for authors
just to diminish, so things like podcasts have become really important.
Book bloggers community you were talking about Harrogate earlier, making
sure you're you have the support you know you're are
fellow authors that you get involved in events, that you're

(41:30):
seen on social media, reading other authors in your genre,
supporting them. So I'm always advised authors that one thing
you can really do is create your own community and
support the community you're in with the genre you're in.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah, that's brilliant advice. Happy with that, Chris, Yeah, No, I.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Just thought it was interesting to see how it's changed.
And like, yeah, when we were at Haragu, obviously there
was an events team there. Like I didn't realize there's
probably a bit naive. I mean, but how hard they
worked all the time, and you know, chatting to them
like oh, you're off now, and they're like, no, we're

(42:11):
doing this, We're doing this, we're doing this. These were
like relatively young, and they were trying to build their
sort of portfolio and they were constantly like reading things
to try and get new authors.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
They were you know, helping the office.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
That they currently had and running campaigns and all this
sort of stuff. And I was like, wow, yeah, there's
a lot involved in that.

Speaker 4 (42:32):
Yeah, it's so true. It's I mean, publicists are really
like the unsung heroes of publishing. I say this a
lot because I think people don't realize how much they're doing.
You know, just setting up an events tour is such
hard work, especially at the moment where getting people out
of events is really hard unless it's a big festival

(42:53):
like harrig or chouting them. Getting people into bookshops or
events is really really hard. And they're doing and they're
so authors. You know, you're part travel agent, part nanny,
part like event coordinator part, like you're all these different people.
You're the person that they the author comes to when
you you know, you've worked really hard to get them
on a reviewing the Times, and then they're like, why

(43:15):
does this review and the Time say say that this
book isn't as good as my last one, and you're
they're sort of You're the person that's got to see
them through that, the ups and downs, the emotions. So
it's kind of it's varied skilled it really you really
have to be quite tough skinned because you often end
up getting the blame. So it's it's it's it can

(43:37):
be really tough job. But there are some people that
are brilliant, is it. Like my friend Alison Barrow who
works at trans World, who works with a lot of
the big crime authors like Paula Hawkings, and she she's
up to me. She's been in the game a while
and she's just really brilliant and she just makes sure
that her authors also get that support from indie bookshops,

(43:57):
which is so key.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
M hmm, yeah, I can see that. Like the people
we were talking to, I could just tell. I was like,
you guys would be great lawyers or something like that
just like that determination and yeah, yeah, like it's nice
to go there because you think, yeah, the publishing and
industry is fine, Like there's a lot of young people

(44:21):
coming into it that are you know, equally is passionate
about yeah, and things like that, like it's not going
to be a case of oh, it's going to die out,
and people.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Like, yeah, there's a new generation of people.

Speaker 4 (44:36):
Yeah. And I always say, I always say to authors
like you get this quite a lot, sorry, with male
authors of a certain age who are like, oh, why
have I got just this girl, this girl who's just
out out of school. And I always say to authors,
don't do that. Don't do that. Come on, just for

(44:57):
God's sake, don't have that attitude when you meet your papas.
Some of the best publicists are young and hungry and
creative and tenacious, and they will do an amazing job
because they want to make their name. They want to
win awards for their campaigns, and you you know, yes,
of course, experience is great too, and I'm not saying
that it isn't, but I just that attitude. And I think,

(45:17):
you know, one piece of advice I'd have for any
you know, author who's lucky enough to be published in
the mainstream with a you know, with an assigned a publicist.
When you go to meet them, remember this person is
will choose to make that last call. It's their choice.
You know, no one's breathing down their next saying oh,

(45:37):
if you run so and soo, oh did you just
check that Sonso's got a copy?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (45:41):
Do you just want? They will make that decision, and
they'll make that decision very often because they just love
your book and they love you. And if you show,
if you show appreciation, could be the smallest thing, could
be bringing them, you know, a donut when you go
when you go into the museum, I thought you might
like this. You know, they're be like, oh wow, I
really want to do because they then put in the

(46:03):
extra effort and I think that, you know, working with
them as a team and saying what can I do
to help? You know, what do you want me to do?
As well? Not just like what are you going to.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
Do for me?

Speaker 4 (46:14):
I think you then you can have a really and
I've had some amazing relationships with my authors because it
has been like a team m Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
Absolutely right.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
The sign of a good conversation is always when we're
running late on the second. Sorry, no, no, no, no,
not at all. This has been fantastic. But what we
want to do is we've got to play a little
trailer about the KDP Storyteller Award that is finishing at
the end of August, so you have the rest of
this month, and if you want to do so, we're
going to play the trailer, and when we come back,
we're going to hear all about River of Stars and

(46:46):
ask a few questions. And if you've got any questions,
please think about that now and send them into the
chat and we will see what they are, and then
we'll put them on screen if they're not too crazy,
which I'm sure they won't be. So check this advert
out and if you're interested, make some notes or look
in the description. We'll find a link to this. So
here you go, Hey, writers, what if it published could

(47:16):
earn you a massive twenty pounds.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Imagine?

Speaker 2 (47:21):
Well you don't need to imagine, because that's exactly what's
on offer with Amazon's Kindle Storyteller Award twenty twenty five.
This amazing lyjury prize is back for its ninth year,
and it's open to anyone who self.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Publishes a book like Kindle Direct Publishing.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
In any genre, any genre. Yeah, whether you've written your
first or your tenth novel, it doesn't matter. If it's
unpublished and written in English, then you can enter that
award with the chance of winning.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Yeah, and it's really easy to enter. So just publish
your book through Kindle Direct Publishing between the.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
First of May and the thirty first of August and
make sure it's enrolled in KDP Select.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I think you'd be absolutely mad not to, as a
twenty thousand pound prize would help any author boost their
career massively, and our previous guest and last year's winner, JD. Kirk,
said that took his career to the next level after
winning that award and taking it home.

Speaker 3 (48:15):
Yeah, and it did.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
These books are everywhere, so in order to enter, head
to Amazon, dot co dot uk forward slash Storyteller to
find out more. The Kindle Storyteller Award is open now,
so publish enter okay, story out there.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Yeah, we'll support you all the way, you know we
will do that. So we'll leave you with this good luck.
The WCCs together as one, we get it done. So
there you have it. The rest of August is there
for you to upload that. If you are self publishing
through KDP, all you need to do is put a
keyword in. We had a great interview recently that talked

(48:51):
all about that. So now we're returning from that advert. Georgina,
please let us know what for everybody know what Rivers
Are Stars is all about.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
Okay, So River of Stars is inspired by my life
on living on a houseboat island, but also buy an
island upstream from me called eel Pie Island, which some
of your listeners will have heard of. And eel Pie
is in Twickenham and in the sixties it had this
crumbling hotel on it and it was a place where

(49:22):
these gigs happened with amazing bands like the Rolling Stones
and a lot of people before they became famous, and
teenagers used to go over the bridge onto the island,
get their hands stamped to passport onto Epi Land and
they'd hear these amazing bands. So I decided to amalgamate
both my experience of a modern day Hasbot Island and
eel Pie and create Walnut Tree Island, which is the

(49:44):
island in River of Stars. And what you have is
you have a dual timeline novel multi generational, so lots
of strong women, different ages. And you have nineteen sixty four,
you have Mary going over onto Walnut Tree Island. Hear
the bands. She's just a teenager and she falls, as
you do, in love with a rock star called Ozzie Jones,

(50:07):
and sadly is left with a baby, and then and
a heart broken heart. And then in the modern day,
it's Mary is now seventy and she's living on Walnut
Tree with her granddaughter, Joe, who's a kind of feisty,
aging party girl, doesn't want to settle down, whose sort
of life is slightly passing her by. She's forty, but

(50:28):
she's got this close knit community where everyone knows each other, artists,
bohemian community on Walnut Tree. And into that environment comes
Oliver Greenwood, who's inherited the island from his father, and
all the community are worried that he's going to sell
it to a developer. This is a way of life
that actually is on the attempts, very often under threat

(50:50):
because you know, moorings on illegal moorings from canal boats
and so on. Anyway, Joe leads the community up against him,
but then the read to discovers that Oliver and Joe
may Well when they were teenagers on Walnut Tree and
Island have had a.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Room not no, yes, someone you know this story and
your previous were there's a lot of family involved, and
you've mentioned throughout the interview strong female characters. How much
of that has been inspired by sort of real life
in your life and maybe families that you've encountered along
the way.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
So yeah, I get asked this a lot. You know
who people were intrigued with the Garlet girls. Even my
friends are like, well, which one are you or are
you in? Are you in all of them? I think
with my female characters, what I tend to do is
use a touchstone of myself as a starting point of
me at different points in my life, because that really

(51:47):
gives me an authentic way in. And then they do
that thing that I always used to listen to authors say,
and I didn't really believe them, that the characters grow
and become their own people. That does happen with my characters.
So I suppose Joe is very much what I was
fearing I would be. I settled down quite late to
have kids. I was thirty seven when I settled down.

(52:09):
I've been having the wild old times before that, and
had my children at thirty eight thirty nine, so I
was very close to being that person, that person that
might miss out on all that. So I kind of
understand Joe, and I know a lot of my generation
were at that point, and I was hoping that people
will be really able to identify with that in Joe,

(52:30):
that sort of burying your head in the sand, not
really thinking. I was so okay, I've got plenty of
time that kind of attitude. So that's where that comes from.
Mary is nothing like me, and as I've been talking
about the book and being at events, she's very graceful.

Speaker 5 (52:46):
Mary.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
She's very giving, she's very much the focus of the community.
She's not good at putting herself first, and she's very selfless,
and she's sort of the queen of the island really.
But I think as I've been talking about it, I've
realized that she's probably the most close to my mother.
And I hadn't even realized as I was until I
was started talking about the book. I was like, oh

(53:08):
my god, it's like I'm describing my mother. So I
think that might be an inspiration there, and the grandmother
granddaughter relationship I really wanted to do because I've done
mothers and daughters in Garnet Girls, and I had a
very close relationship with my grandmother, which really helped me
in my teenage years when my mother and I were
clashing really badly, and my grandmother always just seemed like

(53:28):
someone who got me and was kind of my soulmate.
So I really want I think a lot of people
have that. It's just that one remove that makes it easier.
So that was where that came from. So there's all
different things mixed in there.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
So did you start the writing process with all these
characters in place, or did you have, say, one female
League character that then blossomed these other characters along the way.

Speaker 4 (53:54):
Yeah, definitely. I mean it was really for me. Joe
was the one I was thinking of, and this second
John's roma. I didn't actually want to write a dual
timeline novel. I was a bit like, oh historical, Oh gosh,
can I do that?

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (54:07):
No, can I Really? I was really nervous as well
about capturing the atmosphere of eel Pie because there are
people alive now who danced on that sprung floor in
that and I was so so worried that I wouldn't
be able to do it. Justice. I read a lot.
I went there a lot because you can go over
onto the island during these open artists studios, so I've

(54:27):
got a real sense of it. It's a very eccentric,
amazing place. But I was worried about that. But it
was my editor, really who just kept saying, I just
wanted a few flashbacks from the past, the way I'd
done in The Garnet Girls. But my editor, who's very clever,
kept saying, I really think we need more of this,
I really think, and so I kept giving her more,
giving her more, and I kept started thinking, hang on

(54:47):
a minute, this is becoming a dual timeline novel. And
I was also thinking, hang on a minute, this is
way too long, because you know, they're really strict about
they never want things to be too long, cost of
paper and people's atten spans, and I was thinking, this
is too long. And sure enough, she said, right, you've
completely nailed it. You've got the character, you've got the
character development, you've got the story. Now I want you

(55:09):
to cut ten thousand words. So I was like, oh
my god, because that's quite a tall order, having to
cut ten thousand words. But yeah, so she really pulled
that out. So I started with Joan, Mary is something
that came really out of as I explored that that time.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
We've got two questions in here or one of the
statement that kind of relates to what you're talking about,
So I'll put them up now. And he says a
lot of these women. Oh no, we said that earlier,
says I love dual timeline novels, and I'm writing a
chrome slash historical fantasy one now and I'm going to
buy the book. And what leads into that is Sarah says,

(55:47):
was there a reason for using the sixties in the book?

Speaker 4 (55:50):
Well, because it was the sixties on neil Pie Island. Yeah,
that's why. I mean, I read there's some fantastic books
about that time. And of course if you talk about
someone who was sixteen in the sixties, they're still alive now,
which is you know, some of those considerations are important
when you're writing. When you want to write a dual

(56:11):
timeline which has a present aspect, you have to kind
of work all that out quite carefully. Is this realistic?
Can I have Mary in the sixties and Mary now?
But yes, the sixties was the time on neil Pie
And also what's fascinating about that time is it was
really when this idea of the teenager was discovered. Before that,
there wasn't this sense of the teenager. You know, you

(56:31):
left school, you had a job, you got married, the
teenage them all comes around that and there's a lot
of sex and marijuana and you know, music, and so
it's exciting to write about. You know, I love I
do love a bit of glamour and danger in my writing.
So it really just appealed to me.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
So with Anya's comment there, if I can find it
again about writing, she's writing a chrime hit slash historical
fantasy novel and loving dual timelines, I'm assuming she might
be suggesting she wants to write that kind of timeline thing.
What advice have you got about writing a dual timeline?

Speaker 4 (57:12):
I think it's quite hard because I found it. I
found it quite hard. You've got to get the beats right.
So what do you reveal in the past that you
then pick up and when do you pick it up
again in the present. So I did. I didn't do
anything as ridiculous as some people do. I know people
who write thrillers have to do like spreadsheets, and you know,

(57:34):
I didn't do that so much. And I think quite
a lot of what I do is quite instinctive. And
I think that's basically from years and years and years
of reading and the fact that you know, for work,
I read, you know, two or three books a week,
so I think a lot of what I do is
quite instinctive. So it's really hard to explain. But I
did go through and mark down against each chapter what

(57:57):
I was revealing so that I got to it, you know,
completely right. And the best thing anyone can say to
me now is I had a review the other day
that said that they thought the past present interweaving was
like perfect, and I was like, oh, thank god, because
you do work at that quite hard to make it.
It's got to look. The thing this is the thing
about commercial fiction that people forget, and which is why

(58:20):
it's such a skill, is it's got to look effortless,
so people don't know. Whereas with a lot of literary fiction,
what you're admiring is the you know, the words, and
it's very obvious. But with commercial fiction, it's got to
not be obvious. That interweaving and part of and it's
really hard to do I mean you have to sit

(58:40):
down and really think about it and get it right
and get those beats of reveal. Right. But yeah, that's
so hopefully I have done that.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Yeah, good points. That's how I write two on instinct.
I'm still working on the effortless. So yeah, so yeah,
I'm glad you find that advice helpful.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
I think it's not always helpful to people to say
it's instinctive. So what I would just say to add
to that so people don't think this annoying advice is
if you're not finding that instinctive sense of rhythm, you've
got to go and read more. Yeah. And people who say, oh,
you can't read when you're right, yes you can. You can.

(59:22):
You should be reading all the time.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
You know.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
And I think most writers do think that, and it
will help you with your And also what Maggie O'Farrell
always says as well is go, if there's someone you
admire and they're doing something you in mark, go and
take it apart. Go and pull it apart, go and
look at how they've done this mysterious thing, and you'll

(59:48):
realize it's not that mysterious. It just looks effortless, but
it's like proper mechanics are there, go and pull it
out and then do it yourself.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Yeah, of course that something you mentioned a little while
back on the show about pulling a book apart. Was
that something you were doing if I remember correctly, Yeah, when.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
I did the master's degree, like it was part of
the process pulling books apart, and for me ruined reading
through quite a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:00:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:19):
Yeah, see how everyone's done.

Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
I don't really like it. Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
Yeah, enough time to pass. But yeah, I agree with
that advice obviously, I'm not going to disagree with Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
No, no, she's brilliant.

Speaker 6 (01:00:31):
And also because you know, if you're doing if you're
working on a genre as well, and you know, I
mean if with genre you have quite specific rules you
know about you know, reveals and tension and you know
red herrings and all those tactics.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
So you know, you've really got to be reading the
masters of that to see how they, as you say,
make it look like it's not there.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
But it is. So I need to ask, now we've
just gone over the hour, are you okay for five
minutes more?

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
So?

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Yes, yes, I'm fine.

Speaker 1 (01:01:07):
So I was gonna ask then if Margot was or
you mentioned earlier how I've got blurry again of how
people have got their books optioned and then adapted into
TV shows or movies. If Margot was if your River
of Stars was adapted, have you got a casting Have
you ever thought about that? Oh?

Speaker 7 (01:01:28):
I with Margot, that's come up quite a lot for
the Garnet Girls because she nearly got bored, and then
because it was lockdown, the company that was going to
buy it went under, which was really disappointing.

Speaker 4 (01:01:39):
But one just has to keep hoping. But yeah, I
thought Margaret, you know the I'm now thinking that maybe
neither of you watched Bridgeton. But in Bridgington, the mum
of the really annoying sisters that's got dark hair and
quite low cup Polly, she's called Polly Williams. Anyway, she'd
make a great Margot. But people love coming to me

(01:02:00):
and say, oh, I tell you who should be margo Is,
And they've always got good ideas. Joe, Yeah, you need
a redhead. You need a forty something redhead. I can't
think of one right now.

Speaker 1 (01:02:14):
Or she too short. She's quite short.

Speaker 4 (01:02:17):
She'd be good, actually, wouldn't she. She'd be good. Isla Fisher, Yeah, Well,
it'd be a nice problem to have though coming up
with something, wouldn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Yeah, Yeah, I think it would be really interesting for
an author to go through that journey, and they might
not have any input at all in that sense, but
just to be part of it or on the side. Yeah,
production would be really really cool.

Speaker 4 (01:02:39):
I'd like I love Leo Woodall to pay play Oliver,
but I fear he's too young. Oliver's forty so.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
They can make them look older. True, Anya says, I
watched Bridgeton and love that character, and the actress also
played in Rome.

Speaker 4 (01:02:57):
Yeah, there you go, Anya knows.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I was going to throw in a quick question of
if you could be the publicist for anyone, any one book,
whether that be an author that's alive or dead, which
book would you want to have been the publicist one?
And if you could write with somebody and do a
dual narrative book with somebody again author live or debv,

(01:03:20):
who would you write with?

Speaker 4 (01:03:23):
Mmm, I mean I'm I have had, I mean I
would I really love I really loved the campaign that
was done recently for the List of Suspicious Things by
Jenny Goody god Free that was done by a friend
Min Charlotte Bush. I thought they did an amazing, amazing job,

(01:03:43):
and that's been a huge bestseller. And also it was
just really authentic the way they used Jenny the author
and Jenny were so brilliant and hard working, and it
really engaged bookshops and readers, and I thought it was brilliant.
I think the campaign I'm most proud of myself is Hamnet.
I did the publicity campaign for Hamlet by Maggia Farrell.

(01:04:06):
I won a couple of awards for that campaign. That
was really hard because we had to go completely online
and virtual and it was lockdown and I had to
cancel everything. So but I always remember when you just
got the sense that she wrote this piece of The
Guardian comparing the plague in Hamlet to what we were
going through in Covid, and I just suddenly got that

(01:04:26):
tingling feeling of knowing that something was building to make
it the book that was about loss and the time
and that what we were all going through, and I
just knew it was going to hit. We've done it,
and that's always a great feeling where you just feel
something is about to go voom. So I love doing that.
If I could work with someone Oh yeah, I mean absolutely,

(01:04:47):
I've been so lucky to be have comparisons made to
Rosamond Pilcher, who wrote The Shells Seekers. I mean, she
was just such a mass. That book is one of
so many people's ultimate a comfort read because she just
captures the beach and the family and the house and
all the elements I'm trying to do. So I love her,

(01:05:07):
But I think probably the author I would have loved
to work with, because she would have been fascinating and
she was such a character as Mary Wesley, she started
writing when she was seventy. She wrote The Kammar Lawn,
which was a big BBC documentary, a big BBC series,
and she was just quite naughty and really fun and

(01:05:31):
wrote these books late in life. And her women are
older women who are really out there enjoying their lives.
And I feel like we would have had a fun
time working together and she'd have a lot of stories.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Nice, amazing, Right, Chris, Let's get our stable questions in
because we're overtime and I don't want to keep you
later than you need to be. Although we were thoroughly
enjoying this. If you could take any character from the
world of fiction, whether that be a TV show, a movie,
or a book and put that character in, say River
of Stars or a future novel. What what character would

(01:06:04):
you choose?

Speaker 4 (01:06:05):
I think it was one of the characters I'm most
obsessed with is Anna green Gables. It's kind of where
it all began for me. And there's an and there's
an element of that red headedness imagination and the setting.
You know, people say, why are you obsessed with islands?
Will I always go back to Prince Edward Island? You know,

(01:06:28):
this amazing Canadian island that that is explored in Anna
green Gables. The setting of that and Anne's imagination and
the way she brings that island to life for the reader,
and the way she's so frustrating and irritating at times
you're just like Anne, will you stop being But at
the same time you're with at your same time you're
with her. That's just so clever and that's what I

(01:06:49):
want to do with my characters. So that so her
think Anna green Gables nice, brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
Yeah, obviously we've captured it long enough anyway. So I'm
just going to ask you the sort of final question
of sort of where can people start you on social media?
And follow everything that you do in ter the writing
and things like that.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
So I've been I used to be like really really
busy and active on X when it was Twitter, but
as we all know, that has become a nightmare. I
know there's a lot of the book Twitter are still
on there trying to fight a way through. So you

(01:07:30):
can find me on there still at Publicity Books. But
I think where I'm putting all my effort now as
an author really is on Instagram. Actual Gina More author
and I do a lot on there and link it
to my Facebook. So yes, Instagram is probably the best place.

Speaker 5 (01:07:49):
Brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
Yeah, Instagram. I completely agree with X. By the way,
we've got a lot of our eggs in that basket
to start. I know. Yeah, it's so hard.

Speaker 4 (01:07:59):
I had I had like thirty thousand followers just from
my just from you know, just from being a book
publicist and reading a lot and putting a lot on there,
and then to become an author and find that had
all gone and there's I mean, I'm on Blue Sky,
but it doesn't no one seems to be doing anything
on blue Sky.

Speaker 1 (01:08:18):
Substack has been a new favorite of ours. Yeah, it
does seem to have a lot of repetitive sort of
recently a lot of hours have picked up, so it's
a bit of both on there. I think what's beneficial
about that. It's a bit of a vice someone might
be watching or listening about this. When you create your
substack and people follow you, subscribe or both, it goes
to an email's email campaign thing, so it builds up

(01:08:43):
your subscriber list. Yeah, so if that was to collapse
or fumble, whatever the case may be, you could still
export that email subscriber list and then you still have
contact with those So all the people disappeared on Twitter,
they might have just gone off social media. It's gone.
But if you've got the email list, then potential that's

(01:09:03):
really helpful.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
I didn't know that. Yeah, thank you, thank you for
that amazing advice.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
You very welcome. Okay, brilliant all I want to say
then again, sorry for keeping you ten minutes later. I'm
sure everyone enjoyed that, but thank you so so much,
George Georgina. Absolutely inspiring, insightful conversation. And I hope that
you know, you keep on writing and you don't get
too tied up in between the two both both the

(01:09:30):
professional worlds, and you keep your work coming out, and
thank you so much for sharing that story with us.
Thank you so much, both of you, brilliant yep. Everybody again,
consider if you are going to self published, looking at
that KDP advert on the link in the description, because
it is just a keyword you need to put in there.
And if you watch our interview with J. D. Kirk

(01:09:52):
and our recent one Chris, do you remember I completely
slipped my mind who it was we interviewed about it
the other day. Something you can't remember it description, but
also in the description you'll find links to ourselves stacking
those great things as well. Please like the video, leave

(01:10:12):
a comment and subscribe. But also we'll post Georgina's information
in it as well, so please do follow her and
pick up River of Stars today and I'm assuming it's
in all local bookshops as well, So there you go.
The last thing to say is have a fantastic weekend,
stay safe, and if you're writing, keep at it, and

(01:10:34):
if you need help or advice, we're here for you.
So thank you very much everybody, and we'll see you
all soon.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
Bye,