A Real Paranormal Mason Dixon Line!

Patrick Roy of the podcast, Aliens for Beginners talks about growing up on a property with a native american presence, being involved with a fundamentalist sect for 12 years, encounters with beings, UFOs, and more!

These are the Podcasts tracks you will hear 24/7, on The Un~X Network!   www.unxnetwork.com

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The infinite complaces people went to and pro feared about
their little affairs, serene in the assurance of their dominion
over this small binning fragment of solar driftwood, which, by
chance or design, man has inherited out of the dark
mystery of time and space.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
On this episode of Into the Fray, I welcome Philip
Mantle on with me finally, really honestly right, Philip, But
he is a veteran uk UFO researcher, a lecturer, broadcaster,
and publisher. He has his own publishing house. It is
called Flying disc Press. Go to Flyingdiscpress dot com to

(01:23):
check out all of his titles. But we are going
to talk today about his latest release, which is titled
Pascagoula Uncovered Witnesses, Files and Audio Tapes. And just really quickly, Philip,
before I officially say hello to you and let you
finally speak, I wanted to bring up a couple of
your other titles that are in relation to this case,

(01:45):
which obviously you got bit by quite the Pasca Goula bug,
as it seems. But in twenty eighteen Philip release Pasca
Goula The Closest Encounter, and then twenty twenty three was
Beyond Reasonable Doubt twenty twenty four, Pasca Gula nineteen seventy three,
The Hypnosis, Transcripts and honorable mentions for other books that

(02:10):
he himself has either authored or co authored with someone
else without consent, Close Encounters of the Fourth Kind, Russia's
USO Secrets, and UFRE excuse me, UFO, Landing's UK, just
to name a few. So Philip, welcome on into the Fray.

Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, good evening, Shannon. Nice to speak to you at
last week. We've tried several times, but now we've managed it.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
It is happening. And as I said, I'm like, I
have several things recording just in case because I don't
want to screw this one up. So no, I am
so pleased to be finally speaking to you, Philip. I mean,
you have been someone that I have been aware of
long before I even started podcasting at all. So I'm
very happy to be speaking with you.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
You're making me sound very old, Shannon, but.

Speaker 2 (02:57):
No, not at all, not at all. I've it's just
been such a huge nerd for this stuff for a
long time, and now I'm lucky enough to be speaking
to people that I hold in high regarding you were
one of them, So Philip I figured that, I mean,
most people most likely will maybe have a guess as
to how you got bit by the uf Let's start

(03:17):
with the UFO bug first. You know that you probably
have explained this many times on Mania shows, but I'm
going to make you do it once more. If people
are not familiar with you, how did you get your
start in UFOs?

Speaker 3 (03:30):
Yeah, I'm no problem with that, Shannon. I mean, as
a young fellow at high school, I had several interests.
One was astronomy in general, the other was the space program.
The top of the list was the paranormal and where
I used to live with my parents, so it was
quite fortunate that my best friend's grandmother lived the opposite

(03:55):
side of the road and she used to go to
a local spiritualist church, so I went along with her
a few times. I found it fascinating, even if I
didn't agree with, you know, with a lot that was said.
But I remember reading one book on astronomy. I can't
remember the title, but it had one chapter in it

(04:17):
on UFOs. Pretty dismissive, to be honest, but that piqued
my interest. So I left high school in nineteen seventy four,
I didn't really know what to do with myself, had
several jobs, and then in nineteen seventy eight, over the
winter into nineteen seventy nine, a friend and I worked

(04:40):
in West Germany and we couldn't speak a word of
the language. I mean, not a word. We're just glad
that beer was the same in both languages, you know.
But I found my mom and said, could you send
me some books to read? Mom? I didn't specify what.
So this box arrived and much to my amazement, it

(05:02):
was a box of paperback books all about UFOs. So
I after work on an evening I would sit down
and read these when it came home. In nineteen seventy nine,
and then went to see the movie Close Encounters, which
increased my interest. And I used to live about five
miles outside of the city of Leeds in West Yorkshire.

(05:25):
It used to publish an evening newspaper and still does.
It's called the Yorkshire Evening Post. On my aunt to
live around the corner. She knew of my increased interest
in this subject. You brought the newspaper around one evening
and there was a small advertisement in it and it
said come in this Sunday the first meeting of the

(05:46):
Yorkshire UFO Society in Leeds. So that was for me.
In those days here in the UK on a Sunday
everything used to close. I didn't drive, so I caught
a bus into Leeds, found this location, went in and
there are lots of rooms inside, but I could hear
some voices from one room, so that must be it.

(06:08):
In I went and it was two brothers, Graham and
Mark Birdsell. They'd set up the Yorkshire UFO Society. They
put on a presentation which made it quite clear they'd
already been involved a few years themselves. And for me
there was a table full of books, so you know,
UFO books were hard to come by, so I was

(06:30):
grateful for that. I joined the yorksh UFO Society there
and I think my membership for the year was about
two pounds three dollars And that was it, Shannon. You know,
I felt as if I'd found my niche in life. Naively,
I thought I'll read a few books, maybe write a

(06:50):
few letters, and I'll have all the answers. And of
course here I am, you know, forty plus years later,
still still skin questions and don't have all the answers.
That's how I began, as simple as that.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
Yeah, it's funny how that works. You get in thinking
I'm gonna figure some things out here, and you just
end up with many, many, many more questions as time
goes on.

Speaker 3 (07:15):
I mean absolutely, I mean you know, I was, like
I said, I was very naive. I thought, you know,
I'll read a number of these books and it'll all
fall into place, surely. But it didn't. And here I
am all these years later, Philip.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Have you had your own sighting of any kind or
any paranormal experience?

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean UFO wise. When I joined the
Yorkshire UFO Society, we were in West Yorkshire. Our county
used to be one big one but they split it
up into North, South and East and West. And in
North Yorkshire we have the Yorkshire Dale's National Park, very

(07:57):
beautiful part of the country. And in a small well
just around a small market town of Skipton that there
was a little village called Carlton and above it was
simply Carlton Moore And for whatever reason, Shannon, we got
a lot of sightings coming out of this area in
and around Skipton. So one evening I still didn't drive.

(08:19):
Graham Bursail used to rang me up and said, you
fancy going to Carlton More for an hour? It was
a lovely evening, So yeah, he can't pick me up.
Off we goes and we were still there it would
have been about midnight, one o'clock in the morning, talking
about the football and you know whatever. And there are
no dwellings on the mod It's laid out in front
of you where we were parked. It's all heather, so

(08:43):
there's no livestock it was. It was therefore game birds,
you know, grouse and pheasant partries, that kind of thing.
Right in the distance, dislight appeared. I remember Graham looking
at me, Me looking at him say, well, there is
no building there. Where does that come from? So jumped
in the car and Graham used to drive like a

(09:06):
maniac anyway, Shannon. So we're screaming across the mall in
pitch darkness, and all the fields there are surrounded by
what we call dry stone walls. And I'm looking out
of the driver's seat, the driver's side, and I don't
know whether it was a gate that was open on
the wall was damaged, but I could see down a
little valley and there was this thing. The only way

(09:29):
I can describe it is like a cartwheel of colored
lights in the sky. And I don't mean a little,
you know, dot in the distance. I mean right in
your face. I screamed at Graham, who stopped, and by
the time we got out of the car and scrambled
over the wall, there was nothing in sight. And Graham
was as mad as help because he hadn't seen it.

(09:52):
Of course, so we took a role that circumnavigates the moring.
We went all the way around and didn't see anything else.
Whatever the hell it was, Shannon, I have no idea.
And this was in nineteen eighty one. Jump forward to
July the twenty third, nineteen eighty four. I finished work.
I used to work in a factory. I finished work

(10:13):
at ten o'clock in the evening. I'm driving at this point.
I come out of the industrial straight and it's estate
and it's just one straight road all the way home,
about two and a half miles. And I could see
this light in the sky straight away and knew it
shouldn't be there. And I knew a bit about astronomy.
I knew the roots of the you know, the aircraft
that used to fly into Leeds, so set off about

(10:37):
halfway home. There was a lay by when I could
pull in and this thing was still there, and I
lined it up with a lamp post. It seemed to
me sit pretty stationary, so set off again. And I
got to a stage where I'm on the hill that
we have the city of Leeds in the valley below us,
and there's a hill to the right, and this thing

(10:59):
is a You didn't have to cranky neck, you could
see it. It was two lights next to each other.
The right hand one was slightly larger. Again, there weren't
little dots of light. They were quite large, like a
pearly white, you know, and off off off white. I'm
standing there watching it, and there's there's traffic going buy
me and then puff they were gone. They didn't go up, down,

(11:24):
left or right. They were gone. So I only lived
around the corner. I drove around home. I phoned my
colleagues at the Yorks UFOs, so I told them what
I'd seen. I grabbed my camera and my binoculars, went
back out and stood there for an hour, but didn't
see anything again. But all belonged to me. At that point.
We had lots of sightings coming in that night from

(11:44):
all around the area, So they were that's you would
class them as probably as the UFO side of things
paranormal wise. I don't know if this fits, but since
nineteen ninety nine, I've been had a problem with a
heart condition. In nineteen ninety nine, I had a near
fatal heart attack. In two thousand and nine, I was

(12:09):
diagnosed with heart failure and that lterly killed me a
few times as well. In twenty sixteen, I've been working
During that day, I had to finish working in the
factory because of my health and now worked for a
bank in Leeds drove home. I'm cooking the dinner at
home for me and my wife. I'm in the kitchen

(12:31):
and it was a bit like a soap opular kind
of heart problem. My heart just sped up like a
buzz so I mean literally, I now had a pacemaker
fitted with a d FIB. I put my hand on
my chest. I thought this is it. I'm finished, but
one hand on the kitchen top, my knees buckled, and

(12:51):
then the d fib part of my pacemaker fired. Wam,
first time I had ever done that, like had been
kicked by a mumal. But it reset my heart, you know,
and I staggered into the living room. My wife called
for the ambulance, and even sitting there, Shannon, I can

(13:12):
remember seeing all this happen. But I'm at the other
end of the kitchen, up by the ceiling looking down
on it. Told me this passionate no emotion if I'm
watching some boring movie, and I could see this happening.
So whether you call that a near death experience or whatever,

(13:34):
I'm not sure, but I remembered it instantly, you know,
even before the paramedics arrived and the chipped me off
the hospital and you know, make of it what you will.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Oh, that's pretty incredible. So of course that you weren't
hooked up to anything at that time, it was before
the paramedics got there. But I suppose the assumption is
that you had in fact gone to quote unquote another place,
or been in between the living and the dead somehow,
and you got to watch this whole thing that must
be quite sobering.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
It was. I mean, I remembered it instantly because my
wife had phoned for the paramedics and sat on the
settee waiting for them to arrive, and I can see
it in front of me now, Shannon, as clear as day.
What happened. I have no idea. I can only retell
what I experienced and what I remembered, and I've told

(14:29):
several people about it. You know, I don't know what
it was. I was aware of near death experience, having
an interest in the paranormal, but never expected anything like this.
And thankfully, my heart's not bothered me since I've had
other medical problems, but no more heart problem since then.
And along way that.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
Last, what about the crafts that you saw, Philip, what
is your especially after all these years and all of
the cases that you have looked into, what was your
initial reaction to those craft that they were something conventional
that we had come up with, or that it was
they were something off planet.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
Well, I don't know. I mean the ones we saw,
the one that the big cartwheel thing, were so on
cal to more very I can't explain it, Shan, because
there is nothing there. You know that it is just moorland.
There was no dwellings, nothing. We've been there several times.
We'd interviewed a couple of there, the farmers nearby who

(15:34):
had seen things. And this was not a little dot
in the sky. This is right in your face. And unfortunately,
Graham was I had to concentrate on driving down the
roak because it was pitch black. There no one, there's
no lighting up there. What the hell it was? I
have no idea that the thing I saw back in
nineteen eighty four over an area of South Leeds. I'm

(15:59):
pretty sure there's an explanation for that, although I don't
really know what it is, because it was seemed by
a lot of people, and it seemed to be around
the area for a couple of hours, and we interviewed people.
Whe We've got reports from people right from out on
the east coast of the UK right across to where

(16:19):
I was, a bit further than it seemed to be
going backwards the same route over about a two hour period.
And on my colleague Graham Bertel, who sadly no longer
with us, he thought it might have been a police
helicopter because at that point in time there was a
lot of industrial strife here in Yorkshire and surrounding counties.

(16:47):
The coal miners were on strike. It's a well known
historical thing that happened here. But where I saw this thing,
there were no coal mines, So you know, I don't know.
I think there may be a rational explanation that for
the other one up on them was I don't know,
and I don't suppose I have a will.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Is the Yorkshire UFO Society still around to this day, No, it's.

Speaker 3 (17:11):
It's long gone. I mean I was with them for
about seven or eight years, and then I moved on
to the British UFO Research Association, which was a national organization.
Graham Mark of course, went on to edit and publish
UFO Magazine, which was a newsstand publication here in the UK,

(17:35):
a very successful one and it only ended not that
many years back when sadly Graham passed away, you know,
out of the blue, and the magazine died with him.
So we used to in those days at the Yorkshire
UFO Society. We started with our own newsletter which we

(17:56):
used to handprint with a machine called Gustepner and you
used to wind it around. And then we moved on
to the UFOs Journal, where we actually bought a little
printing machine and we used to print our own little magazine.
And so UFO Magazine had an infancy in those two publications,

(18:20):
so it didn't sort of Come Out of the Blue,
and it was very successful. You know, Graham was very
well known. Mark was more on the research side in
the background. Mark is still alive, but he has no
more interest in the subjects. And like I said, the
magazine died with Graham. Unfortunately.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
I bet you have several copies that you've hung on
to in church to this day.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
I do have, well, I did have some copies, and
because I've been so ill, all of my paper files
are now with David Marler in Albuquerque. David is the
director of the National UFO Historical Records Center, and I've seen,
you know, little archives end up in the trash, Shannon,

(19:08):
which is tragic. So when I found out about David
and what he was working on, I offered to donate
all my paper files and he has the lot. They're
all there just while people are listening. You know, if
you've got any archive of any description, please don't let
it end up in the trash. There are several places

(19:31):
that will take it. David is just one of them.
So he's got all my and I've found some of
the old magazines just recently as well, Shannon. I've when
I shipped the material out to David, I'm mister box,
and I found it while clearing out the garages. Thankfully
it was all dry and safe, so he's literally got
them in the last few weeks. And some of them
are those hand printed publications we did way back in

(19:54):
the nineteen eighties. A maximum of fifty copies of each
would it done, So they are few and far between,
shall we say.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
I think I recall a post that either David put
up or you put up. I'm pretty sure it was you, guys.
Two vehicles pulled up next to each other and just
boxes in the back of the vehicles, and I think
that that was that exchange. If I'm not mistaken, it
may well have been.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
But David has had some other donations from some of
which are very well known. Some of that. Yeah, but
the archive there is forever growing, and I wish him
every success.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
So important to do that. As you say, I mean,
if you think that something is just silly and should
go in the trash, nothing of that's where it should
ever go in the trash, because it's lost forever exactly.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
And I've seen it happen, you know, so I made
sure it didn't happen with my modest little archive.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
So, Philip, before we go into, you know, at least
a snapshot as much as you want to go into
the actual Pasca Goula incident for those not familiar with it,
I would like you to intro before you get into that,
how you became essentially the go to person who has

(21:15):
written the most about and knows the most about, in
my opinion, the Pascagoula incident. How did that happen? And
then let's get into the actual incident itself and some
of the various information that's come out over the last
couple of years.

Speaker 3 (21:30):
Yeah, I mean back in the nineteen eighties I read
about the Pasca Gooula case in a magazine here and
I was always struck by the peculiarity of the creatures
that were seen that night. I was stuck in my head.
When I moved on to the British UFO Research Association,
one of the many things that I did for them

(21:51):
was their conference organizer, and in the early nineties one year,
via a colleague of mine, we actually had an agreement
with Charlie Hickson to come and speak here in the UK.
Unfortunately he wasn't able to make it, so we never
got him here. So after I took Hill in twenty sixteen,

(22:14):
I had just started flying this press. A colleague of
mine by the name of John Hanson, who was a
retired police detective. John and already started his own publishing
and it's called Haunted Skies, and I'd advise anyone to
have a look at what John's produced. So my idea was,

(22:37):
I'll do a little bit of this and in seven
or eight years time, when I retire, I'll get stuck
into it. Because I took Hill, I got the chance
to take early retirement. So round about the twenty seventeen mark,
I realized that I didn't have a copy of the
book that Charlie Hickson had co author with a chap

(23:00):
called William Mendes. It came out in nineteen eighty three,
and by the looks of it online, it didn't sell
a lot of copies because the occasional book that came
up for sale was quite costly. But anyway, I bought
one and I thought I'd like to get the rights
to republish this book, which I managed to do. Now

(23:22):
I knew Charlie had passed away in twenty eleven, but
I wasn't sure about Calvin. I couldn't find anything after
twenty thirteen. I couldn't find any obituary, so I assumed
he was alive. My idea was, if I could just
get an interview with him and add an extra chapter
to this book, you know, an update, so to speak

(23:45):
to me. About three months but I finally managed to
get a hold of him and I got his phone number.
When I spoke to him, he was very nice, Shannon,
you know, very polite. It was clear to me he
didn't want to tell me anything. But what I didn't
know in the background, just a few weeks before I

(24:06):
phoned him, he'd been to a funeral of a friend
and as he's coming out of the funeral home, there
was a book of condolence and he signed it Calvin Parker.
The people coming behind him saw his name and you
could see the wink wink, nodge nudge, you know, and
he thought that was very disrespectful, and of course they

(24:29):
knew it was the alien man. Now. Calvin's wife, Weynette,
was with him. She'd been with him right since the
incident happened in nineteen seventy three, and she said, well,
why don't why don't you write a book, Tell everybody
your story and then everybody will know. And he said, yes, Darling,
you know, of course I will. I had no intention

(24:50):
of writing any book, Shannon, So I think it was
either of the second or third phone call I had
with him. He mentioned this to me and I said, well,
why won't you give me an interview? He said, well,
every time I'm interviewed, he said, in the past, the
journalist would, would you know, mix the story up on
purpose and say something stupid. That's the world. Don't you

(25:14):
write a book? I said, I'll tell you what. I
will provide you with a contract so that we can't
publish anything until you say so. If you're not happy
with anything, will change it. And that's what we agreed.
And even the spelling errors and the typos, Calvin wouldn't
let me change. And that way, he said, I want

(25:38):
people to know who I am, not just what happened
to him and Charlie. So in twenty eighteen, you know, Pastagoula,
the closest encounter by Calvin Parker came out and we
were up and runningch on and that's that's how it started.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
I think that was so smart for you to say
that to him. Right out of the game, like listen,
you will have the editorial rights. Whatever you want to
keep in, you keep in. And I am not going
to change your story because that is what tends to happen,
especially in the more sensational ones like they, which is
astonishing to me because to add anything just seems silly anyway,

(26:17):
because the stories themselves as they are are fascinating.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Oh. Absolutely, I agree with you. And Calvin and I
became good friends and no matter what I did, I mean,
Calvin went on to speak at conferences, appear on TV,
et cetera, et cetera. I wouldn't do anything without Calvin's approval,
and he said, you don't have to ask me anymore, Philip,

(26:43):
I said, no, I do, Calvin, because at the end
of the day, this is not my story. It's yours
or yours and Charlie, Sally Charlie is no longer here
to tell it. So you decide, you know, you get
a conferencing fight. You don't have to go if you
don't want to. You know, if you want to, then fine,
same with a TV appearance. If you don't want to

(27:04):
do it, don't do it. There's even the screenplay written
about Calvin and Charlie's experience, and I said to him,
you have to remember, this is entertainment and it may
not be one hundred percent accurate if it ever gets made.
So either do it or don't, but don't complain if

(27:25):
they do make it and it's not one hundred percent accurate,
or just making him away Shannon, of how things worked,
and I wouldn't do anything without Calvin say so, and
we stuck to that all the way through until they
passed away.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Did that ever get made that particular project.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Not yet. I spoke to the producer not that long ago,
and they have a director on board, and he said
it was finishing up a movie now, and they said,
we hope to have some news in in the in
the fall, as you say, late later this year, in
the autumn. So I'm hoping we might have some some

(28:08):
some information or some movement on it later this year.
It was written in conjunction with Calvin. It's two professional
screenwriters that have written it, and they would be forever
checking the facts. I've read it. Ah, it's pretty good.

(28:29):
You know, it's not one hundred percent accurate, and on
the there's reasons for that, Shannon, you know, but it's
it's it's as bad as accurate as I think you're
gonna get. But I just keep my fingers crossed. We
will hope. I used to pull Calvin's you know, pullish,
make a bit of fun out of him. I say,

(28:50):
I'll see you on the red carpet in your tuxedo,
you know, and he says, that's okay, as long as
I can wear my fishing cap, you know. So fingers
cross and it is very well written, I have to say,
and we'll see, we'll fingers crossed well.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
Before we start talking about your latest release, Pasca Goola Uncovered.
For those that do not know, can you talk about
the incident itself?

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah? Absolutely, So we go back in time to October
the eleventh, nineteen seventy three. Now Calvin was eighteen, almost
nineteen at that point. He didn't live in Pascagoula. He
lived in a place called Laurel in Mississippi. I think
it's a one hundred and fifty miles from Pascagoula. He

(29:42):
got engaged to his childhood sweet out Waynette, and they
were getting married the following month in November, and Calvin
was working two or three jobs, you know, to make
some money, and why next as I never actually see you,
you're at work all the time. Now, the Parker family

(30:02):
had grown up with the Hickson family and Charlie was
a friend of Calvin's dad. So Calvin's father said, why
are you're in Charlie. He's a foreman at the shipyard
out pastagool Away. He might be able to get your
a regular job. So he did and Charlie says, yeah,

(30:24):
we're hiring now. And Calvin was a welder, so he
got him a job. What the idea was, Shannon, is
that Calvin would lodge with Charlie Monday to Friday, go
home on a weekend if all went well, to get
married and then maybe get look for their own place
to live out there. So October the eleventh, nineteen seventy three,

(30:48):
was Calvin's first day working in the shipyard, and he
didn't know the area of course, you know, he didn't
live there. So they were working that day. Calvin had
bought a new car, I know the name of it.
It's a Hornet Rambler. It was bright yellow, and he
was driving. So they're going home at night, him and Charlie,

(31:11):
and it was Charlie said, you want, you know, I
want to do some fishing tonight. So both guys love
to fish. They were fishing mad and says yeah great.
They go home, have a bite to eat, grab the
fishing tackle, buy some bait on the way, and Charlie
is telling Calvin where to go. So this wasn't an
out of the way sport, Shannon if the area in question,

(31:34):
down by the Pascagoula River was a bit wrung down,
but it wasn't in the middle of a swamp or
anything like that. So they're driving in. They pass the
car that's already parked up. There's a no entry sign
and Calvin remarks on this, and Charlie said, don't worry
about it. So I come here all the time. So

(31:54):
the part of the car go to one spot. They're
absolutely plagued by by insects. So they moved to another
spots an old pier on a little shipyard that has
long since closed. So they sat on the edge with
their rods in the water. And the Pascagoula River also
has another name. It's called the Singing River. And they

(32:18):
heard this little buzzing sound and then from behind them
these blue lights come go out across the water, and
Calvin thinks, oh boy, we're gonna get arrested for trespassing.
You know, we shouldn't have ignored that no entry side.
He thinks this is the police. So they both turn around,

(32:39):
and of course it's not the police. There is an
oval shaped object descending. It's got two big lights on
the left hand side. It stops about eighteen inches two
feet off the ground on the right hand side and
opening their piers, and the light that comes out of
it is absolutely dazzling. Both men had to shield their eyes.

(33:05):
Out of this opening come three humanoid figures. Again. They
never touched the ground. They moved about eighteen inches above it.
Calvin described them as being about five feet five feet
four in height, bulky looking. They had a bulky head
but no neck. They had pointed protrusions out of the

(33:28):
side of the head and one out of the front.
Their arms were long, they didn't have fingers. They were
like mittens or pincers. The legs were wedged together. The
legs never moved, and their skin, if that's what it was,
was like a gray but they described it as been wrinkly,
like that of an elephant. Two got out of Charlie

(33:52):
and this is important this but he felt a pinch
on his forearm. One got out of Calvin and they said,
we were instantly frozen. Couldn't move and it felt like
he'd been given an injection because the fear that he
had been experienced. He went The only thing he could move,
Shannon was his eyes. They were wolf taken through this opening.

(34:17):
Charlie went to the right, Calvin to the left. Calvin
said he was placed on a transparent table at an angle.
This big, ugly creature, as he called it, seemed to
back off and stand still, and he said, this thing
came out of the ceiling. You know the walls were
this light came out of the walls, but no light fittings.

(34:39):
Calvin said, it came out of the paint. And this
thing about the size of a deck of cars, with
no wires or anything, came out of the ceiling, stopped
in front of his face and went around him, making
a clicking noise, and it was gone back up to
where it had come from. Then Calvin sensed there was
something behind him, and a female creature appeared looked pretty

(35:05):
much human, so the only real difference was that her
middle fingers were extremely long. And I asked him to
describe her, and he said, the only way I can
describe it. He said, if he saw this young lady
in a bar, you buy it a drink. You know,
she was pretty, she was attractive. And she opened his

(35:26):
mouth and she put her fingers down his mouth and
heard this sound in his head. His voice said, we're
not going to hurt you. His lower clothing was removed,
along with his shoes and his socks, and he says
something was This is also an important part. Said something
was stuck in his foot underneath, and it felt like

(35:48):
it was drawing his blood out and replacing it with
something else. So it was put his clothes back on him,
and I sed to get free. He got hold of
this woman around the neck and she just pointed to
the big guy and he got older Calvin, and instantly
he was frozen again. He was placed back outside on

(36:10):
the pier. Then Charlie came and Charlie shook Calvin. Charlie
said Calvin was stood there with his arms out. Charlie
described going into this room if that's what it was,
and he was suspended. He wasn't putting any table or anything.
He was just hanging in the air and this thing

(36:34):
came out in front of him, not from the ceiling.
It was about the size of a basketball, and he
said it looked like a big eye. And he didn't
go round his head like calms, and it went around
him from head to foot, around and around and round,
then went back in. He never saw any female and
he was downplaced back outside. He had wobbly legs. He

(36:58):
saw Calvin and he shook, you're right, son, you're right,
and they both turned around with this thing when zip
bang gone, you know, in an instant. So they deliberated.
I mean both guys were fighting stiff, Shannon, I mean
absolutely fright, more so Calvin, because Charlie had was a

(37:20):
veteran of the Korean War. He'd been in the US
Army involved in some quite heavy fighting during in Korea.
And the decision was, we're not going to tell anybody.
They will think we are nuts. Calvin was also worried
if if this gets out, I'm supposed to get married

(37:41):
next month. There's no way his wayne ex father gonna
let this snockcase marry his daughter, you know. So they
head back to the car. As he approached the car,
Charlie opens the passenger side and all the glass falls
out of the window. Calvin gets in the car, Bernie,

(38:04):
mind is his brand new It's a brand new Hornet
Rambler and it wouldn't start, he said. He said it
took him about twenty attempts to get it started. So
they set off to go home. En route, Charlie has
a change of heart. He said, we've got to tell somebody.
He said, what if these things come back and do

(38:25):
this to somebody else, but if it's an invasion. So
Calvin reluctantly agrees on one condition, he said, I'm not
going to tell anybody what happened to me. I'll just
say when I saw the things come out of the doorway,
I passed out and I can't remember anything. So Charlie

(38:46):
could see what a state Calvin was in. I mean
he was. He was shaking like a leap. So he agreed.
So they pulled in a local convenience store. He was
a payphone and outside of pasta google about thirty miles
I think it is is Keyslerd Air Force Base. So Charlie,
being a military veteran, thought that's the right place to form.

(39:09):
He ran Keysland Air Force Base. They just said we're
not interested in UFOs anymore, ring your local authorities. At
this point, Calvin sat in the cart screaming blue murder
at Charlie to forget it, let's go home, but he
said no. So if they phoned the police, and they

(39:29):
passed them through to Jackson County Chariff's department and they
said stay there, we'll come get you. So they sent
us car out. They did a little sobrietary test first,
and then they escorted them into town. The man in
charge was Shaddy Fred Diamond, with his deputy at Glenn Ryder.

(39:50):
They interviewed both men separately and they gave him a
real warning, Shannon. He said, is there some kind of
you know, redneck start? You guys are going to be
in big trouble. They then put them in a room
together and the deputy said, I'm just stepping out to
get some coffee. It won't be a moment. And there
was a table in there, a desk, and he got

(40:12):
in the desk of the deputy. Calien Charman had no
idea what he was doing. He came back a few
minutes later, went in the desk and what happened He
switched the tape recorder on. They were pretty sure that
when they were left alone, they'd be laughing and joking
about this stump they pulled. Of course, when they played
it back, there was nothing like that on it. These

(40:35):
guys are still talking about what had happened to them.
Calvin said, I've got to get something from our nerves.
Charlie didn't know what to do. So at that point
the law enforcement officers, their attitude towards them tended to
change a little bit and they said, you can go on.
There's nothing we can do. So they said, look, you know,

(40:57):
just don't tell anybody. Charlie and Calmy pleaded with them
not to tell anyone, So we won't. So they went on.
The following morning, they got up to go to work.
As they're driving in, they noticed as a few extra cars.
They've only been there a short whund They summoned to
the boss's office. You know. He said, what the hell

(41:18):
have you two been doing? He said, the telephones won't
stop ringing. We've got journalists from here, there and everywhere.
I wanted to speak to you. So they told the
boss what had happened. The sheriff was there. He took
them to the Singing River Hospital they had a quick

(41:38):
check up. Everything was fine, and somebody, I think it
may have been the sheriff, said what about radiation. Well,
the hospital couldn't check for that. So the sheriff ran
keeps the air Force base explain what was going on,
and there's yeah, we can check for that. Okay, I'm
coming out there now. They were taken to Keeslin Air

(42:01):
Force Base, the very place that had given them the
you know, the elbow the night before. And Calvin told me, said,
they were that they're waiting for us, you know, guys
in hazmat suits. They ran the detector over them and
it was fine, and they said, guys, why are you here,
Why don't you come in and tell us what happened

(42:22):
last night? So they did and the story was out.
And the following day Dr James Harder from the Aerial
Phenomena Research Organization arrived, and the Close Encounters man himself, Dr.
Allen Heinek arrived. They both of them interviewed Charlie and Calvin.

(42:43):
They listened to the secret tape. Charlie and Calvin was
still oblivious to that. Dr hard had tried to put
both of them onto hypnosis. He managed a few minutes
with Calvin, but didn't get anywhere with Charlie. And before
they left, they had a press conference and said, you know,
these guys have had an experience period and then should

(43:06):
be treated with respect. And the story was out and
it went around the world. Calvin headed back home to Laurel.
Charlie obviously stayed there, his family were there, and they
were asked to have a polygraph. Charlie had the polygraph,

(43:27):
Calvin couldn't because he ended up in hospital, and you know,
the story and then went around the world channel and
that's pretty much in a nutshell.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Did they have any sense of how much actual time
quote unquote earth time, I'll call it that they were
aboard that craft.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Not At that point, neither Charlie or Calvin wore a watch,
so they have no idea. They won't even show what
time of night it was. And there's a lot bit
of disagreement here as well. There are you know, different
opinions about it. When they drove into town into the
sheriff's office, they pulled up at the newspaper office, which

(44:11):
was closed, and they knocked on the door and there
was a couple of cleaning ladies in there and said,
you know it's closed, come back tomorrow. And that was
Charlie knocking on the door. Now, somebody said they were
trying to tell the newspaper about the story, which wasn't
the case. Calvin said, no, we thought there was a
big clock, you know, on the wall inside the officers there,

(44:34):
because we didn't know what time it was. We're just
trying to find out what time it was. And they
had no idea, I think, you know, with hindsight. And
they looked back on it maybe half an hour, forty minutes,
certainly no longer than that. So yeah, that was just
an estimate, so to speak.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
Now, especially since Calvin was physically stuck in his foot
with something, were there physical remnant or marks or any
indication of what they they recounted.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
Yeah, that's this is why I pointed out those two
little bits. When I started working with Calvin on his book,
I said to him, do we have any photographs, documents,
I mean, you know, newspaper cuttings, anything, And he said no.
They said our house was hit by Hurricane Katrina and
it was on the twelve feet of water. We lost everything. Okay,

(45:32):
I understand. So I started putting the feelers out to
want to either individuals or UFO groups, just to see
if they had anything. One of those seemed obvious for me.
It was the Center for UFO Studies, you know, formed
by Alan Heinek. So I contacted them and yeah, they say, yeah,

(45:53):
we've We've got a file. Philip. Here it is to
peddif file. Most of it was newspaper cuttings, which is fine.
Be in the middle of this file, Shannon, there was
a one page type written so it's written on an
old typewriter and it's headed puncture Woes and it's dated
October thirteenth, nineteen seventy three. So two days later they've

(46:18):
actually put the wrong date, so they've typed over it.
And I remember he was in an old typewrit myself,
so I've done it myself. And it goes on to
describe that both men were asked to strip to their
underwear and they were given them once over, and that
in inverted commas, puncture wounds were found in Charlie Hickson's
forearm and Calvin Parker's foot, and it mentioned some photographs,

(46:43):
but there were no photographs with it. I thought this
is amazing, so I asked Calvin, who gave you the
once sober who asked you to strip down and said
that it was doctor Harder. It wasn't a medical doctor.
I think it was a doctor of engineering, but at
least he had the foresight to have a look, so
to speak. So about a year, maybe a little bit
longer after that, I get an email from the same gentleman,

(47:07):
same caller. You've got the center FOREWUFO Studies, And he said, Philip,
I was going through some files today. I wasn't looking
for these. Well, I assume you've got them anyway, but
I thought i'd better send them. Hey, Presto. It was
the photographs that went along with that document. So here
you have Charlie Hickson's forearm with these small marks on it,

(47:29):
and then you have Calvin's Parker's foot and he's got
three marks underneath him, like a little triangle under his foot.
They are minor injuries, Shannon, you know, I won't exaggerate.
They are only minor injuries. But you've got them. You've
got both gentlemen recounting them, then you've got the document
written about seeing them, and then you've got your photographs

(47:50):
showing them. So for me, that is a physical link
to what happened to them that night? What it says again,
it is open to speculation, but it's there. And we
published those photographs Beyond Reasonable Doubts with doctor Irean the
Scott as my co author for the first time, along
with the document, and they are there for everyone to

(48:12):
look at and make up their own mind.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
Philip, have you ever come across any other cases where
the beings were described in a similar way, because these
are very unique.

Speaker 3 (48:24):
No, I mean that, As I mentioned, when I first
read about this case back in the eighties, it was
these creatures that really stuck in my mind. And ever since,
you know, linking up with Calvin and Dr Scott and
doing this work, we now have this technology that I'm

(48:45):
able to search all kinds of things and put appeals
out and ask people on mass and I've done that
and I can't find anything that is even close Shannon.
And of course, back in nineteen seventy three, the only
real sort of science fiction TV that I can remember

(49:07):
is here in the UK we had Doctor Who, and
then we had The Outer Limits. And I can't think
of anything in the science fiction literature that looks like
these things either. So it's another unique aspect about the
encounter itself. It's the description of these beings, and of

(49:27):
course Calvin said there was this creature that looked like
a female, a human female. Again, you know, you just
have to make of it what you will.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
This is Shannon Lacrow and you're listening to into the
frame on the X. I mean, besides some of the
more obvious points that do mirror some other encounters, that

(50:02):
was one of the ones that stuck out to me
the most was it seems like they have this other
being that looks just similar enough to where as you say,
if she was at a bar, she was normal and
pretty enough you'd buy or drink. And it's as if
they're just placed there to have the new occupant, or

(50:22):
the capture as it were, essentially feel a little bit
more at ease. As at ease. They could be hanging
mid air like Charlie was and Calvin laying on this table.
I don't know how you could be at ease, but
it seems like that's what those are there for.

Speaker 3 (50:41):
Yeah, I mean this, you know, Calvin had this message
in ahead, but you know, we're not going to hurt
you and Charlie. He thought they were going to be
killed there was no indication of that was just the
way he thought about it at the time. And he thought,
if they're going to kill us, get on with it,
you know, don't don't make us offfer just got on

(51:03):
with it. And then Charlie went back in time to
when he was in career and he remembered when they
were pinned down with from enemy gunfire at one particular
place and he thought, you know, we're finished. We're not
going to get out of here, and his commanding officer said,
stay calm, don't panic. An opportunity will come for us

(51:27):
to get out of here, and when it does, will
be gone. So that's what came in then came into
Charlie's mind. I'll get a chance to get out of here,
not going to be killed, and we'll be gone. So
he was able to handle it differently as well. Shannon,
and he didn't see that, you know, any female or
anything like that, and it wasn't he was scared. But

(51:49):
when you listen to you know, the secret tape, Calvin
was crawling up the wall. There was a difference between
the two. You know, I I don't know what to
make of it. I mean, if we go forward in time,
a couple of years, we have the Travis Walton incident
in Snowflake in Arizona, And of course during his experience

(52:14):
he saw some beings that looked almost human as well,
So that part is not unknown, so to speak. It
probably was at the time, but you know, that's that
kind of thing has happened since then. But as for
these big, ugly creatures that Calvin saw, can't find them anywhere.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
I feel like if Calvin and Charlie and Travis would
have a meeting, I don't know if they ever did,
you could probably tell us, but I feel like they would.
They would feel at ease with each other and they
could easily talk and of course understand one another, because
there are a lot of similarities to Travis's case as well.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Yeah, I mean, I know Calvin met Travis. I think
it was twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen at a conference. Both
Charlie and Calvin at different times also met Betty Hill.
In fact, Calvin went and stayed three days with Betty,
and we have a picture of Charlie with Betty and
some correspondence between them as well, So they certainly met others.

(53:19):
And I asked Calvin why he wanted to speak to
Betty's soid I thought she'd be able to help us,
and I think she did. You know, she helped them,
She tried to help Calvin, you know, because Calvin was
traumatized for the rest of his life. I've often described
Calvin's experiences a bit like I don't know if people
remember the TV series in the nineteen eighties, the Hulk.

(53:43):
The Hulk was you know, Dr David Banner, and there
were a journalists hunting them. So every time the journalists
got here, they've moved to another town to keep out,
get out of the way. Calvin did that in real
life with his wife and family in tow and it
haunted him for the rest of his life. And it's

(54:03):
only in the last couple of years before he died
that things started to change for him.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
Was there ever any sense that these beings came back
in any way, shape or form and made contact with
Calvin or Charlie?

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yeah, I have to say yes to that. Charlie in
his book UFO Contact of Pascagoula tells of you almost
then class Charlie has a contact. He he claimed to
get a couple of messages from these creatures. Never saw them,
and they told him that they were these creatures were

(54:45):
going to help mankind in some way, I mean big time,
and that Charlie was going to play a part in that.
He wasn't sure what it was. He also had another
sighting on a UFO that was seen by all the family.
Calvin had another encounter in nineteen ninety three. He again

(55:09):
went fishing, but this time in a little boat on
his own. It's a few miles from where they were living,
and he said, I'm only going for a couple of hours.
So I just took a sandwich in a bottle of water.
And he's fishing away and there's a cloud. Love. He
see this cloud, and the cloud opens. This is not

(55:29):
our cloud, you know. Next thing he remembers, it's pitched black.
It's the early hours of the morning. It's caught some fish.
You don't remember catching any fish. Is his launch. He
goes back to shore, his car is there, and there's
a note under his windscreen from his wife wearing out wheather.

(55:49):
Hell ayah, you know she'd been out looking for him.
He was coming in this black stuff. He went home
and said, oh that you know what? The engine packed
up on the boat Calvin told his neighbor a friend,
and his friend knew a little bit about the UFO subject,
but only a little bit, And he said, does a

(56:11):
conference coming up in Florida and there's a guy speaking
there called Bod Hopkins. He specializes in this type of thing.
So they got in the car. They drove to Florida.
I think Calvin told it took him like thirteen hours
to get there, but at a long drive. The conference

(56:33):
was being held at a hotel. Calvin would not go in,
he didn't want anyone to recognize him. So his friend
went in, found Bud, explain what had happened. Bud, being
the lovely guy that he was, says, he's my hotel
key time. I'll meet him in my room in you
in an hour or whenever. She did. And then and

(56:57):
then put touched Calvin under hypnosis. And we managed to
find a copy of the tape of that hypnosis session Bod.
As you know, it was no longer with us, his
archive was with Dr David Jacobs. Contacted David, and David

(57:19):
would only let us have a copy of it with
Calvin's permission, which he gave. On on this tape, you
hear the hypnosis in full. Calvin is on this thing.
It's the same creature as again, this woman and these
these big, ugly things he's shown us. I'll call it

(57:41):
a mirror, but it's not a mirror. Shallon the best
way I can describe it. In this mirror, Calvin describes
it as been a curse. It was shown things that
had happened to the earth in the past, What was
happening now, what was going to happen in the future,
And it wasn't and you know, people being killed, mass starvation, war,

(58:06):
that kind of thing. And Calvin actually got hold of
this female creature and I started to fight with her.
He said, I've had enough of this. He said, I
was looking for a door and were if there was one,
we're both going out of it. But the big guy
got hold of him and that that was the end
of that. But also under this hypnosis, Calvin again told

(58:28):
the experience of nineteen seventy three, but he also told
of similar too little experiences when he was a young
as a young boy, and they too involved this female.
So in all these instances, the common denominator was this
female creature. Now, when Calvin passed away, I found a

(58:54):
lot of stuff that was still hadn't published. Shannon, I
thought our book Beyond Reasonable Doubt was going to be there,
you know, the last the last piece of the puzzle.
But it was still information coming in. And every now
and again, I'll do a sweep of things online. And

(59:16):
I had a look and I found a website and
it had been set up in the nineties by a
local journalist. And on this website there was a couple
of police officers that were interviewed. They'd seen something around
the same time. But long behold. Embedded into this website
there is Calvin and he looks, you know, in his thirties, twenties,

(59:43):
I don't know, you know. And there's little videos and
it's Calvin's just talking to the to the to the camera.
The first half he talks about what happened to him
in nineteen seventy three, and he finishes that, turns around,
faces the camera again, and it then goes on to

(01:00:04):
talk about another encounter that happened place called Baldwin in
Louisiana in nineteen ninety two. Now, Calvin had never mentioned
this to me or anyone else, and this encounter he
was working out in Louisiana, It was in the car
with a friend. They were going to look at their
next destination for work, and they said. Calvin got this feeling,

(01:00:31):
for want of a better word, that these beings were
again nearby. She stopped the car, went off into the
woods and there was one of these craft there. There
some of the ugly creatures outside, but this time there
was a ramp coming down, and he went in and
there was the female, and she explained to Calvin that

(01:00:55):
her species had gone through similar problems that we on
Earth were going through, you know, global warming, war, et cetera,
et cetera. They got past that now, and they indeed
wanted to try and help mankind. And she explained, you
know that the ugly guys out there are taking samples.

(01:01:18):
And he's talking to her about this, and he'd forgotten
about his friend. He was still sighting the car, and
they earned this commotion outside, and Calvin said, as I
came out, my friend had come to find it, and
he thought he's there with a tire iron. He thought
something had happened to me. So off they went and
went back home. So possibly somewhere out there there's one

(01:01:40):
of Calvin's work colleagues who could corroborate this, but it's
awfully puzzling, Shannon that he never mentioned it. So what
I've done, I put the whole transcript of it in
the most recent book, Pastor gool Un Cupboard, so people
can can read it for themselves. It's it's all there.

(01:02:02):
I just find it fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
No, it absolutely is. And it's you know, it's sad though,
because and I say this kind of in a in
a chuckle way, but it's not. It's funny, but it's
not funny. Poor Calvin loved to go fishing. But every time,
not every time, strike that he would go fishing, and
he loved to do this, and then he's having these
sometimes terrifying experiences, ruin in something that he loves doing,

(01:02:31):
which is fishing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:33):
Yeah. I mean, I'll give you an example of Calvin.
And he's also his sense of humours, Shannon. One of
the local charities in Pascagoula was raising money for whatever,
and you could donate something and they would raffle it
off and the money would go to the charity. Calvin

(01:02:55):
offered a free night time fishing with him on the
Parka River That's awesome as a prize, and he laughed,
you know, he laughed about you know, he's nineteen seventy
three encounteries that I got hired, fired, and abdopted all
in the same day.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
My gosh, poor guy. Though really I mean terrifying experience.
Though really, I mean there are I'm happy that he
could laugh about it a little bit, but it's not nice,
not at all.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
I mean that night in nineteen seventy three, when they
got back to Charlie's, this reminded me of other victims
of traumatic events. Calvin got in the shower and he
found a gallon of bleach and he washed himself in bleach.
And he'd got his clothes, put them in a plastic
bag and threw them in the trash in case they

(01:03:48):
were contaminated in some way. And he said, Tui, I
wish I hadn't done that now, but you know, I
wasn't thinking straight that night. And you know, I've heard
of people who have been you know, physically abuse of
feeling dirty on want to wash themself, And it just
what Calvin said that night, it just reminded me of

(01:04:08):
that he washed himself in bleach, He scrubbed, he scrubbed
himself red raw in Bleach and it was traumatized pretty
much for the rest of his life as a result.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
I mean Philip, as you will know, looking into these
UFO cases, not every time, but many times, it seems
to follow family line. So were there other family members
of Calvin and Charlie that had similar experiences, Not that
we know of.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
I mean, Calvin's mom is still alive, but she's in
a nursing home. His father's passed away. They had one
brother younger than him. He's no longer with us either.
We've spoken with Eddie Hickson, you know, Charlie's son. I
mean Eddie at the time was actually in the Marinko.

(01:05:01):
The first he heard of it was in is it
Stars and Stripes? They call it the magazine for the military.
That was the first time he read about it. And
he got on the phone to his father, said, you know,
what the hell's been happening. And to give you an example,
Calvin got married to Wayne as planned in November nineteen

(01:05:22):
ninety three. Not long after, Calvin himself joined the Marine
Corps because he wanted to get away for if I'm
in the Marines, there's nobody can find me. He lasted
nine months and he got an honorable discharge, and so
I asked him why were you Why did you get

(01:05:43):
a discharge? He said, well, one of the other marines
trying to make fun of him, and Calvin was how
can I put it, Well, he liked it. He didn't
mind a fight. So this marine ended up on the
wrong end of Calvin's I believe, and I'm sure that happened.
You know, in Marines when they're training, there's a lot

(01:06:04):
of you know, testosterone. But then Calvin said there was
a journalist turned up. I found where Calvin was, so
he went to see his commanding officer and explain the situation.
This is, don't worry about someone. We'll work you know,
will work something out. And he got an honorable discharge.
And Calvin's brief military career, all his documents are all

(01:06:29):
in the new book, pascagoul and Uncupboard. I managed to
get them and they're all in there so you can
see it for yourself. But it showed you how desperate
it was Shannon to get away from this story. You know,
joining the Marines not long after you've manried your childhood
sweetheart is no mean feat.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
No, and people can be so cruel unless they've been
through it, and sometimes even when they have been through it,
because they don't want to face it. Like these guys have,
all they can turn to is the hurtful words and
the poking fawn And as you say, what was the nickname,
the alien man they called him, which is unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (01:07:08):
Yeah, yeah, But things changed for Calvin once he wrote
his own book because he it was treated with respect
by the local media. He was invited to UFO conferences
where people wanted to hear his story. There was no
poking full at him. Things changed from a research point

(01:07:29):
of view as well. Shannon I was contacted by a
gentleman in Greece. His name is Stephanos Stephanos Panageo Takis
and Stephanos back in the seventeen eighties, being in the
Greek Merchant Navy, he was a radio operator, but he
was also a UFO researcher and he used to write

(01:07:51):
for a publication in Greece and his favorite case was Pascagoula.
So in nineteen eighty one, the shipping that he was
on docked him Pascagoula and he got several days shortly,
so he set out to get an interview with Charlie,
which he did. He then went to the police station,

(01:08:12):
explained who he was and you know, he've got any
more info. And they said to him, have you spoken
to Pastor Sigallas? What the hell's he? So they gave
him his name and address. Sephanos went and knocked on
this gentleman's door, introduced himself, come on in. Just so
happens that the pastor was his family would have Greek

(01:08:35):
couragin and here you've got a Greek eye standing on
the doorstep. What happened was Pastor Sigallas, along with the
chape called down Broaders, who worked for the police and
Probation department. That night of October the eleventh, nineteen seventy three,
they were going to a meeting that was sponsored by

(01:08:56):
the church for people who had alcohol problems. And in
the back of the car they were in was a
young lady. She was a church volunteer. And as they're
heading out of town, this young lady sees this thing coming.
She's looking out of the passenger seat. It went right
over in front of them, right not above, literally right

(01:09:18):
in front of them, heading in the general direction of
where Charlie and Calvin were. It's their description of it
is pretty similar as well. Now Stephanos interviewed the pastor
and had a transcript of that. Sadly he was no
longer around, same with mister Broadhurst. At first we didn't

(01:09:39):
have the lady's name who was sat in the back
of the car. We managed to find it in a
little obscure newspaper cutting. It's called Joanne Hallmark. We found
a black and white picture of her from nineteen seventy four,
I think it was. She wasn't a resident, wasn't born
and bred in the area, only gone there to work

(01:10:01):
for a couple of years. I found a couple of
social media accounts that she had, but they hadn't been
used in an awful long time, Shannon, so I left it.
And then I went back sometime later and I noticed
on one of these social media accounts there was the
name of a church. So I did what you can
do now that you couldn't do in nineteen seventy three.

(01:10:23):
I put the church's name into Google. Hey, presto, it
was there, and it was, but it wasn't in Pastorgoul
It was in Maryland, and they had a website. So
I loved on and on this church website. There were
two sermons that you could download, both done by somebody
called Hallmark, and I'm thinking this this her husband or

(01:10:47):
perhaps her son's, and the church had a general email address,
you know, info at church whatever. So I sent them
an email just saying I was looking for this. Lady
didn't say what about. I just said she worked with
Pastor Cigalas in Pascogoula in nineteen seventy three. If she's
still there, could you pass the email on? Three or

(01:11:09):
four weeks later, got a reply from her she was
indeed still there, so then I had to explain in response.
In reply to what I was interested in, I sent
her a copy of the black and white photo we
had Again three or four weeks later, she replied again.
She laughed at the old photograph. She sent us an

(01:11:30):
up to date one, by the way, and she confirmed
what they'd seen that night. She gave us a telephone number.
I was now working with Dr Irena Scott. So Irena
rang her and we got the details. We were up
and running as far as new witnesses were concerned. And

(01:11:50):
that was, you know, that gave us the idea that
maybe we might get a few witnesses. We didn't think
we'd get what we ended up with. But there was
one who we tracked down. She hadn't stepped forward, and
you know, she'd had no more sightings, wasn't interested in
the subject. And away we went. And Calvin was amazed,

(01:12:12):
absolutely amazed.

Speaker 2 (01:12:15):
Oh I bet he was. I bet all of you
guys were. That is incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:12:19):
Well it continued. I'll give you another example. Calvin had
a book signing in Pascagoula. An old boy came up
to him. Can I buy him up? Mister Parker, here's
my money? Sign it. Oh, by the way, I saw
that thing that night if he went, luckily for somebody

(01:12:41):
was taking photographs and there's a picture of this chap
buying a book. So I put that on Facebook, just said,
anybody know this gentleman? Would you like to speak to him?
A lady contacted me and said, yeah, I know him.
I'll ask you if he'll speak to you. He said yes.
His name was mister Lewis Lee, and he worked on

(01:13:03):
the opposite side of the river that night in the shipyard,
and he said, I was a crane driver, Philip, and
he said, as soon as I got in my cab,
ten or twelve feet off the ground. Said I could
see this darn thing out over the river. Not open
in the sky, but out over the river. He said,

(01:13:23):
I've never seen anything like it in my life. And
he said I watched it for quite some time, and
he said, I only took my eyes off it. It's
my colleague down below. He's shouting at me. So I
had to attend to that. And then when I look back,
it had gone. And I said, did you report it?
Twenty one? He says, Philip, this is nineteen seventy three.

(01:13:45):
There's no Ghostbusters phone, you know. He said, the helm
I'm going to call. So I just told my family
and that was it. So we got another witness. And
then the following year, one of the charities in Pastor
Goruler had raised enough money to put an historic plaque,

(01:14:09):
her historic marker near the site of the encounter, and
it was officially opened by the mayor and people came along.
Eddison came along with a nice thing. Now, Calvin had
been interviewed by a local journalist and they've done an

(01:14:30):
article and put it online. While she was speaking to him,
she also filmed him, so she had a little sort
of six minute video. You know embedded into her article.
Somebody had got that Shannon and put it on YouTube,
and I'm reading the comments. One comment said, my mum

(01:14:51):
and dad were on the opposite side of the river
that night. They two saw the UFO, so whnaged to
find this person. There's a young lady. I said, could
we speak to your mom and dad? She said, I'll ask.
They came back and said yes, this was Jerry and
Maria Blair, and I spoke to them. Maria said, my

(01:15:15):
husband worked off shore. He supplied the oil rigs. The
boat was there to take him to work that night,
but his boss hasn't turned up, so we sat in
the car waiting for his boss. Jerry's not in the
best of moods, and she said, we'll see this blue

(01:15:36):
thing come down the river and then hover opposite where
we were and move around as if it was looking
for something, or perhaps it was lost. Now Maria knew
the area. She know there's no airfield there, there's no
helicopter pad. So at this point they decided to take

(01:15:59):
Jerry's clothes down the pier and put them on the boat.
As they're walking down the pier, she said, there's this
almighty splash in the water next to her, and out
of the water comes this gray man. That's her words,
this gray man, and it literally stood nose to nose

(01:16:21):
with her, and then it went back down into the
water and was gone. She ran up to the boat,
chopped Jerry's clothes on it, and she estimates this was
about nine o'clock. She turned and high tailed it out
of there, and once she got back to the car,
it was about midnight. Now Jerry was gone. A few

(01:16:43):
days she saw Charlie and Kelvin on the local news.
Jerry come back and said, don't tell anybody, not a soul,
not a sol And the young lady who put that
comment on there was actually their youngest daughter. They had daughters,
both of whom knew about the sighting, but not this creature.

(01:17:06):
And Maria was very emotional when she was talking about this,
and she said, I've often wondered if something similar didn't
happen to me and Jerry. Why do you say that?
She says, well, I can see something out of my
peripheral vision, I can't quite make it out what it is.

(01:17:28):
So I passed their details on to my colleague Dr
Irena Scott, who I was working with and Irena took
over from there and she kept in touch with Maria
one way or another. Sadly, Jerry became seriously ill and
he was hospitalized and it was going to have a

(01:17:52):
little operation. It wasn't sure if he was going to survive.
So before the operation, from his hospital bed, Shannon, he
made Maria telephone me and this is mister mantl allied.
I saw the exact same thing as my wife. He
called it the gray humanoid, not the gray man. And

(01:18:14):
Maria filmed him, you know, saying this on his hospital bed. Thankfully,
he survived the operation, but it was only a temporary fix,
so to speak. And he turned to Maria and said,
we too were abdopted that night, and he told her
about what had happened. Then these things that Maria could

(01:18:37):
see out of her peripheral vision made sense. It wasn't
a peripheral vision. She actually had her eyes screwed up
and she could only see through you know, I could
peeping out of her eyes two of this creatures. I
got hold of her husband. When I got hold of her,
they went and her husband kept saying, I've got my

(01:18:57):
eye on that one, got my eye on that one
as if one of them was in charge or were
special in some way, and even though Jerry was terminally ill,
Maria really did give him what for. It's why, you
know why am it's told of this before, and he said,
I was just trying to protect you and he won't

(01:19:18):
people think we're crazy. Sadly, you know, Jerry passed away
and then at some point Maria asked if there was
any chance of hypnosis and we said, well, on the
other side of the Atlantic, I don't. I don't think

(01:19:39):
there's anything I can do, so you know, she'll let
it go, and then she come back sometime later. I said, well, look,
I'll see what I can do. So I just went online.
Shannon and I found a few hypnotherapists in the area
and I just emailed them. One of them came back
to us, a lady by the name of Crystal Slaughter,
said yeah, I can help. We didn't tell her what

(01:20:01):
the subject matter was or anything like that, and she said,
if it makes it easier, I can even come to
the client's home. You don't have to come here. So
we arranged for Maria to go under hypnosis and it
was conducted at Calvin's house. She now met Calvin and
Waynette and I haired a guy who was a professional cameraman,

(01:20:25):
and all we told the hypnotherapist was daytime and location,
and off she went. And again Maria was very emotional.
You know, her husband wasn't there where they were tainting
Jerry cut in a long story short She said that
these creatures were interested in her eggs and that they

(01:20:45):
wanted to make creatures that could walk amongst us without
standing out, that we wouldn't recognize them. We have it
all on film. And what was interesting after all this
and it calmed down she had she came to the
conclusion that it was her and Jerry were they intended

(01:21:07):
in inverted commas targets that night because they were supposed
to be there at that time and at that location,
Charlie and Calvin onlady decided to go fishing on the
way home from work, so they weren't supposed to be there.
They were like collateral damage, so to speak. We made
a documentary and sadly we missed Maria. She was moving home,

(01:21:32):
so we just couldn't organized a time to interview her.
So there's a lady who we got friends with out
there called Chelsea Norton Prince. She runs the Ocean Springs
Historical Society and an interest in the incident. She met
Calvin and bought a book off him. So I asked
Chelsea if she had an iPhone. She said yeah. I said,

(01:21:56):
could you do as a favor, could you interview Maria
on your iPhone? Because we don't have a you know,
on camera, so to speak, apart from under hypnolysis. So
she said yeah, it rained it. I said a list
of questions, and I said, just let her tell her story.
So she tells the story. And one of the questions

(01:22:17):
I asked Chelsea to ask Maria was to confirm when
she first met Calvin. She met Calvin in twenty nineteen
when I told you about the little historical marker. She
came along to that, so I might expecting Maria, I say,
I first met Calvin Parker when they unveiled the historical
marker in twenty nineteen. You know her Mississippi accent or

(01:22:41):
Southern accent, I should say. She said, I first seen Calvin.
In other words, I first saw Calvin when he got abdopted.
So I went back to what after this, And I said,
I just want you to clarify this, Marie, are you
telling me you saw what happened to Charlie and Calvin?

(01:23:03):
She said, yeah, I could see what happened on the
other side of the river. Said I thought it was men.
I didn't know anything about UFOs or aliens, men you know,
doing men stuff, you know, And she said it was
only when I saw it on the TV or the
local news that you know, she went creative then what

(01:23:25):
had happened to her and Jerry. So Maria claims there
were seeing Charlie and Calvin's experience, their adoption, whatever you
want to call it. And again, all of this has
gone in the new book. Pastor Goula on Coboard, you know,
Maria's still there. She said she's had telepathic messages from

(01:23:47):
these beings. She had one more sighting in Alabama. I
believe it is where she's moved to now with her
and her granddaughter. I think her granddaughter was about ten
years of age. And she's still in touch with with
Dr Scott. And again, like everything we've ever published on

(01:24:07):
this case, Shannon, you know, just allow people to make
up their own minds. And that's the same with the
testimony from mister and missus Blair.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
I'm just so happy to hear that before Calvin passed,
and I'm sorry for his loss. I know that was
a friend of yours that he got to actually meet
the Blairs and hear their side of it, because that
is an incredible corroboration for he and Charlie's encounter.

Speaker 3 (01:24:35):
Yeah, Kelvin felt vindicated. Shannon. It was like, well, I
told you so, perhaps now you'll listen, you know. And
Irene also spoke to Jerry. Johnny was a man of
few words, but he did confirm things. And you know,
had that young lady which turned out to be the

(01:24:56):
Blair's daughter not made that comment on YouTube, we probably
never have heard of it because they had no intention
of going on the record, and her daughter didn't know
anything about the encounter apart from seeing this blund thing
come down the river. Like I said, she became friends
with Calvin. We also, and this is an interesting thing,

(01:25:17):
we also had Calvin hypnotize with the same therapist in
his home a few weeks later. The hypnotherapist now knew
the subject matter, etc. So I just I said, look,
when you put Calvin on the hypnosis, I want you
to ask him one question. So he sat there with

(01:25:37):
his rod in the water, just asked him to describe
what he sees in front of him. I'm just wanting
to emphasize the area that they were fishing in. Channon.
So Calvin said, you know, he's on the hypnosis. She
asked him the question. He says, well, there's a boat
going out. He could even pick out the company name

(01:25:59):
on this little boat. He said, there's a bridge over
there on the left, there's one on the right, and
they said there's the ship building opposite, and then right
in the end of it, Shannon, Calvin says, oh, and
there's two figures on the other side of the river.
Oh my gosh, now is that Maria and Jerry. We'll

(01:26:24):
never know. But if you don't look, you know, if
you if you hadn't listened careful enough, you would have
missed that little throwaway little thing that Calvin said. He
didn't make any any emphasis of it. It was just
a little throwaway comment. And I thought, well, you know,
I don't know, you know, So we've just published it

(01:26:45):
and people again can can make up their own mind.
And we filmed it as well, so we had Calvin
on film under hypnosis and We also found out that
that Charlie Hickson back in the nineteen eighties went under
hypnosis with the Lake Bud Hopkins. He went to New
York and met board and went under hypnosis. We have

(01:27:05):
copies of those tapes as well, and so you know.
One of the criticisms at the time, like I said,
the location was a bit of a dump, but it
wasn't an out of the way place. Shannon and two
Charlie and Calvin's left. There was a bridge that went
over the river. There was a toll bridge for traffic
for cars. And two criticisms were one that the toll

(01:27:31):
booth was manned twenty four hours and the toll bridge
both operated that night. Never saw anything. I'll come to
that in a minute. And the other criticism was that
there was no drivers coming over the bridge that saw anything.
What the sugar said, there was none that we are
aware of. Because a gentleman by the name of Rusty Lee,

(01:27:53):
sorry not Rustily, it's called Rusty. He stepped forward and
he said, Philip, I was driving over the bridge that
night with my wife and he said, soon we got
onto the bridge, you could see these lights. And he
said they were actually down below us. He looked like
whatever was flying her I was going to crash, it

(01:28:15):
was that low. And this is the next morning, I
went down to visit my aunt who lived down by
the river, and he said, Before I could say anything,
she said to me, you never guess what I saw
last night. His name was mister Anderson, Rusty Anderson. So
Rusty was interviewed for the documentary made and he put

(01:28:38):
a little Facebook post, I've been interviewed about my UFO
sighting some reading the comments underneath, and there's a lady
with a long name. She said, Oh, I saw that
thing that night as well. So I left her a
message she got back to me. Her name is Pamela.
Pamela really eves. She said. We in the opposite direction,

(01:29:02):
so to the right of where Charlie and Calvin were
with some residential properties. He says, I've put my children
to bed. Our house overlooked the water, and I was
going to close the curtains and so I could see
this blue thing out, you know, out over the river.
What was strange, Shannon, is that Rusty Anderson and Pamela

(01:29:26):
were actually cousins, and neither of them knew of each
other size They never told anybody you know. So you
have Charlie and Calvin sitting on the on the bank,
on this little pier with their rods. You've got You've
got Rusty Anderson going over the bridge. He sees it
opposite them. You've got mister Lewis Lee in the shipyard.

(01:29:48):
They ain't seen it. Just slightly to your right, you've
got you've got the Blairs, and then all the way
around to your right you've got Pamela. So you've got
observation all the way around Charlie and Calvin and what
went home that night, and then others further afield. So
what what started at the very beginning was just what

(01:30:11):
happened to Charlie and Calvin that night. We now end
up with probably another encounter with Maria and Jerry on
the other side of the river, and then lots of
other weaknesses around. We have documents, photographs of the minor injuries, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.
On it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
So, Philip, the word audio tapes is in the subtitle
for Pasca Goula Uncovered. And you keep mentioning the incredible
Bud Hopkins. Of course, with some of these hypnosis sessions,
that they went under. So I'm sure that some of
the transcripts are included, but is there anywhere that folks
could actually listen to those audio tapes?

Speaker 3 (01:30:53):
Yeah? Yeah, in between these two books, So in between
Beyond Reasonable Doubt and Pasca Lula Uncovered, there is another book.
It's simply called Pascagoula seventy three. The Hypnosis transcripts. Every
piece of hypnosis that Charlie and Calvin and Maria underwent
a transcribed in there in full. Then what is available

(01:31:17):
is an audio book that contains some of them, because
some of them just weren't good enough quality to put
on the audio book, Shannon, So you get parts where
they are read by a narrator, but other parts are
the actual audio of these various hypnosis sessions. So you

(01:31:40):
have Calvin, You've got Charlie, Ann Maria. One of the
other reasons why we mentioned on pascor Goula Uncovered in
the subtitle because James Harder was there. Now, James Harder
in nineteen seventy was part of APRO, the Aerial Phenomenal
Research Organization in fact sent him down there, and we

(01:32:03):
know he was there is in the news reports and
all this kind of thing. Now. Our probe was a
big organization. It packed ten years ago and their files
were held in limbo in Nevada. This couple had them,
a man and a woman that the lady died, and

(01:32:24):
I was in correspondence with them trying to see if
they had anything, you know, in those files. They were
very polite and nice, but never got anywhere with them.
Out of the blue, David Marler, who we mentioned earlier
the National UFO Historical Records, sent to Guess an email

(01:32:47):
from the gentleman who has these files. Basically he says
to David, do you want them? David's yes, please. They met,
they'd signed a legal document this and wouldn't even allow
anyone else to deliver them. So David hired him a
truck I found wherever, and he drove them up from

(01:33:09):
Nevada and delivered them in person. And they are still
being worked on now. I get an email from David saying, Philip,
you got this audio at all? And he sent me
a list of these audio. No, these were from the
air profiles. They had never seen the light of day. Ever,

(01:33:33):
what's they're not? You know, there's no smoking gone from
a historical perspective. They are an amazing channel. You have the
following day when James hard had turned up, he put
Calvin under hypnosis. We have that hypnosis. It's only eleven
minutes long, and Calvin doesn't say an awful lot. It's

(01:33:55):
not good enough quality to go on the audio, but
but I transcribed it anyway. It took a lot of doing.
Then you have James Harder a press conference taking as
you know, a Q and a press conference. You have
Dr j Allen Heinek interviewing the sheriff Fred Diamond. All

(01:34:17):
these are transcribed and putting in the new book pascagoul
Or Uncovered. They are and what is interesting, Charlie and
Calvin both called these big ugly creatures as robotic, or
to them, they were robotic. This wasn't something that appeared
years later, because you have these these audio files from
a couple of days after talking about them as robots,

(01:34:42):
you know, as Charlie and Calvin describing even right from
day one as robots. So it wasn't something that added
to the conversation later. And I'm extremely grateful to David
Marla for providing copies of these. Another bit of historic history.
I was contacted by a gentleman called mister Payne Van

(01:35:04):
Payne instead. I believe I was the first journalist to
interview Charlie and Calvin. It's okay, maybe maybe not what
it was. Mister Payne got a tip off there was
a local journalist, got a tip off from the Sheriff's office.

(01:35:26):
Burning mind, Chalian and Calvin could never find out how
the story got out. They got a tip off. He's
not sure if he was from the dispatcher or somebody
else telling him what had happened. So he hide tells
it to the Sheriff's office. Too late, Chalian Calvin had
gone home, so he goes back the next morning. Too late.

(01:35:50):
They're not there. They've gone to the hospital. So he
goes to the Singing River Hospital. Guess what, too late.
They're now gone to Keep Air Force Base. So he
drives there and he waits outside of Keesel Air Force
Base for Charlie and Calvin. How they come and he
asked for an interview, but they decline. But he's a

(01:36:14):
bit more persuasive and they said, well, we'll give you
an interviews so long as we can stand with our
backs to the camera so people can't see our face.
So yeah, so you have Charlie Calvin, mister Van Payne
facing the camera and he's got his microphone in his hand,
and he's interviewer and he's fascinating Shannon. This is the

(01:36:36):
day after the encounter. What was also fascinating because of
course this was all shot on sixteen millimeter film. You
didn't just once you've used the big you didn't chuck
it in the bean, and you know you saved it.
You were used the rest of it. Mister Payne went
to interview another gentleman. I can't remember his name off

(01:36:56):
the top of my head, but he was part of
the Civil Defense. He was the the meteorological officer and
he got something on radar that night. So mister Payne's
got him in his in his in a place of
work and interviews him which we'd never heard of before.
The one last thing on this tape sixteen millimeter film,

(01:37:19):
I should say, who has now been digitized, by the way,
it's a very little curious thing. There is a guy
who was a taxi driver in the area claimed to
see this UFO land and these creatures with these crab
like claws get out. But if I got one thing
his colleague was parked in the taxi rank behind him.

(01:37:40):
He said, if that didn't happen, we never saw anything.
It was a hoax. So we even have that little
snippet of information. And thankfully mister van Payne has given
me a copy of the whole lot. So I have
all those films in our archive and they're all transcribed
and in the new book Pastorola uncovered when it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:38:04):
And if I might just bring this up before I
have you tell everybody where to find you in your works,
is the fact that and this is nothing shocking, but
it is very dark. The implications are just dark and
can be sad for those who have possibly seen what
they have considered to be their offspring. And that is
the fact that Maria brought up the fact that she

(01:38:27):
thought that they were interested in her eggs, and then
Calvin seeing this human looking woman, who knows if she's
actually really there? Is it a projection? Is she a hybrid? Right?
Is she got a product of some kind of a
hybrid program? And haven't forbidden knew him somehow, or maybe

(01:38:47):
she knew Maria somehow. I don't know, But that aspect
of these encounters to me is always just so dark
and occasionally very sad because some of these folks actually
wreck ignize or have these connections with these hybrids that
they see on these graphs, but they don't have relationships
with them. No.

Speaker 3 (01:39:09):
But what it did with Maria, and of course Maria
has two daughters. It was her youngest daughter to have
put that that little comment on YouTube. And what it did.
It made me real look at her daughters, I think,
could it be possibly? No, truly know. So it's left
her shaking her head in that respect, and so it

(01:39:32):
did have an effect on her, and she was very
emotional after the hypnosis. As she was in the beginning.
She couldn't understand why she was so emotionally if she'd
just seen a blue light. That's why she was pretty
sure there was something else, but she didn't know what
it was until Jerry then started telling her the story

(01:39:53):
and what she could see then all fitted and slotted
into place. Like I say, when after the hypnosis she said,
you know you look at your your children anything you
know what you're saying. Yeah, it made it made her
certainly made her think, Shannon, if.

Speaker 2 (01:40:10):
Nothing else, I can certainly understand that I'd imagine and
make you question all kinds of things. So, Philip, do
you I mean, I hope that you have more books
and projects that you're looking into. Is there anything that
you can share that you might be looking into next.

Speaker 3 (01:40:27):
Yeah, there's always there's always something that crops up, Shannon,
And I mean my colleague Dr irving A. Scott is
a lot was writing one last book about Pastor Gooula,
and she's a scientist. She's taking a scientific look at
it and looking at some of the the you know,
other things surrounding it, shall we say? And that will

(01:40:51):
probably be the last last word unless anything else turns
up in the meantime. But you know, I'm not a
member of any organizations or anything like that anymore. So things,
you know, just come my way one way or another.
And so there's always there's always something to work on.
I've got more books coming by other authors. I'm working

(01:41:14):
on a book myself. It's pretty much finished for next year,
and that will detail a lot of the other things
that I've been involved in down the years. Shannon. You know,
because I've been at it an awful long time. It's
not everything, but it's a lot of the things that
I've been involved in down the years, so that will
give people a better grasp of, you know, what kind

(01:41:37):
of things I've been involved in that will come out
sometime next years. It's almost finished and some of those,
you know, there's photographic cases in there. There's several hoaxes
that I was involved in investigating, so one of which
everybody will know, which is the alien autopsy film. But
there's a couple of local ones that happened in in

(01:42:00):
West Yorkshire that I'm pretty sure nobody's ever heard of
or versus only very few. So it's a mixture of
all kinds of things that will go in that. I
promise Calvin that I'd be the torch bearer for the case,
and I will. I'll continue to spread the word. As

(01:42:20):
we've mentioned, there is a movie screen Prey written and
it was written in conjunction with Calvin when he was
before he passed away. It has a producer and a
director attached to it and they've said that we might
hear something by the end of the year, so fingers
crossed that that gets the green light and we'll see

(01:42:44):
what happens next. Well.

Speaker 2 (01:42:46):
I am extremely pleased to hear that, Philip, absolutely so
let everybody know, of course where to find you on
the socials if you want to give any of those out,
and of course where to find all of your works.

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
Yeah, I'm on Facebook. I'm not. I'm not like some
hobbits Shannon in a little hobble hiding away. And like
you said, just type in Flying dis Press you'll find it.
It's this with a K. I'm easily enough found. I'm
on Twitter as well, or x or whatever the hell
they call it now exactly, so yeah, I'm easy to find.
And if anyone has got any information about pastor Googler

(01:43:20):
or wants to share something, please do you know. And
like I said at the beginning, the beginning, if anyone's
got an archive out there, it's worried about what's going
to happen to it, please don't leave it too late,
donate it somewhere and keep it safe.

Speaker 2 (01:43:34):
Well, Philip, I have truly enjoyed having you on and
the next time you have that book come out, you
are absolutely welcome back on. And besides that, I mean,
let's face it, you have past works that I think
it would be wonderful to cover as well, So let's
do this again.

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
Thank you very much, Shannon A. Great pleasure to talk
to you this evening for the first time, but hopefully
not the last.

Speaker 2 (01:43:57):
Long overdue, and I apologize for that, but yes it
is not the last.

Speaker 3 (01:44:02):
Thank you. Well, I'm so and so. I was given
the snake by my parents, my business.

Speaker 1 (01:44:09):
I've out for college, I've done these things in my profession,
and I've produce a little bag.

Speaker 3 (01:44:14):
But it says forget it, that's not that's someone for story.
That's all gone, that's all pass.

Speaker 1 (01:44:22):
I'm on to see them really you you.

Speaker 3 (01:44:24):
Are now when nobody knows who their names.

Speaker 1 (01:44:28):
Because we don't know our selves, exempt from listening to Americans.

Speaker 3 (01:44:35):
And consulting our thenmals.

Speaker 1 (01:44:37):
But then that's a really And then again it's expect
this question, gol are you?

Speaker 3 (01:44:45):
That is the meaning. We shall see how they play.

Speaker 2 (01:44:49):
With this exam by the cost to get you to
come out on your show and find out.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
I'm going very hard bass