March 10, 2025 • 35 mins
Chaplain (MAJ) Chad Gion is a Catholic Priest ordained in 2002. He has served as a priest in the Diocese of Bismarck in western North Dakota for twenty-one years. His primary responsibility has been as a pastor at various parishes across the Diocese. Chaplain Gion’s military service began in 2013 when he was commissioned as a 1st Lieutenant in the North Dakota Army National Guard. Chaplain Gion was deployed to Kosovo for three months to provide chaplain support to the 30th Armored Brigade, an Army Guard unit from North Carolina. His first assignment was as chaplain to the 1/112th Aviation Battalion. In 2018 he was transferred to the 164th Engineering Battalion where he served for 4 years. Chaplain Gion is currently assigned to 68th Troop Command.
Chaplain Gion graduated from Regent Public High School, ND in 1994. He received a bachelor’s degree in philosophy from North Dakota State University. He attended the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, MN where he received a master’s in divinity in 2002. Chaplain Gion completed the Basic Officer Leadership Course in 2014, Captain’s Career Course in 2018, and ILE in 2024.
He lives and works in Sioux County, North Dakota, the northern portion of the Standing Rock Sioux Indian Reservation. He is the pastor of the Catholic Indian Mission, consisting of five parishes and Saint Bernard Mission School (K-8).In August of 2024, Chaplain (MAJ) Gion was hired to serve as the State Support Chaplain for the North Dakota National Guard. In this role, he develops training events for the North Dakota Chaplain Corps. He provides direct support to the full-time staff of the North Dakota National Guard.
Chaplain Gion graduated from Regent Public High School, ND in 1994. He received a bachelor’s degree in philosophy from North Dakota State University. He attended the University of St. Thomas in Minneapolis, MN where he received a master’s in divinity in 2002. Chaplain Gion completed the Basic Officer Leadership Course in 2014, Captain’s Career Course in 2018, and ILE in 2024.
He lives and works in Sioux County, North Dakota, the northern portion of the Standing Rock Sioux Indian Reservation. He is the pastor of the Catholic Indian Mission, consisting of five parishes and Saint Bernard Mission School (K-8).In August of 2024, Chaplain (MAJ) Gion was hired to serve as the State Support Chaplain for the North Dakota National Guard. In this role, he develops training events for the North Dakota Chaplain Corps. He provides direct support to the full-time staff of the North Dakota National Guard.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to These Are Your Neighbors, a podcast hosted by
the City of Bismarck Human Relations Committee and produced by
Dakota Media Access. The purpose of the podcast is to
show the diversity of your neighbors and to encourage inclusivity
among the Bismarck community.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to These Are Your Neighbors? A podcast hosted by
Tia Jorgison and Sarganawitski, both members of the City of
Bismarck Human Relations Committee. Thank you for joining us as
we interview our neighbors who are subject matter experts and diversity, inclusion, accessibility,
and equality.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Our guest today is Chaplain Chad Gion. Chaplain Gion is
a Catholic priest. Ordained in two thousand and two. He
has served as a priest in the Diocese of Bismarck
in western North Dakota for twenty one years. His primary
responsibility has been as a pastor at various parishes across
the diocese. Chaplin Gian's military service dan in twenty thirteen,
(01:01):
when he was commissioned as a first lieutenant in the
North Dakota Army National Guard. He was deployed to Kosovo
for three months to provide Chaplain support for the thirtieth
Armored Brigade, an Army National Guard unit from North Carolina.
Chaplin Gion graduated from Regent Public School in North Dakota
in nineteen ninety four. He received a bachelor's degree in
(01:22):
philosophy from North Dakota State University, and he attended the
University of Saint Thomas in Minneapolis, where he received a
master's in divinity in two thousand and two. Chaplin Gion
lives and works in Sioux County, North Dakota, the northern
portion of the Standing Rock Sioux Indian Reservation. He is
the pastor of the Catholic Indian Mission, consisting of five
(01:44):
parishes in Saint Bernard Mission School. In August of twenty
twenty four, Chaplain Gion was hired to serve as the
State Support Chaplain for the North Dakota National Guard. In
this role, he develops training events for the North Dakota
Chaplain Corps. He provides direct support to the full time
staff of the North Dkota National Guard, and he also
works with the Commander's Readiness and Resilient Council to increase
(02:07):
North Quota's National Guards spiritual fitness Welcome Sir.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Great to be with you, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So, as Tia said, you're the pastor for the Catholic
Indian Mission. So what makes you or maybe you decide
to take on the position of the chaplain of the
National Guard and to commute daily back and forth to Bismarck.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Oh yeah, it's I make bad decisions all the time.
This not uncommon at all. It's a lot of responsibility
and it's a lot of travel. But I think there
are some similarities in terms of two populations that are
(02:47):
often misunderstood or who are easily kind of like who
are can be intentionally misunderstood? Huh? And so to be
able to serving, to be able to serve these these populations,
uh is. I love being able to do it. It's
(03:09):
a lot of work, but I think that yeah, experience
in one leads to the ability to do a solid
job in the other. So it doesn't bother me at all.
The travel.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So then what's it like overseeing multiple parishes at once?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
It is a challenge, but you know, this is part
of the the reality of being uh. In forty eight's
is or in the in Standing Rock, the relationship between
the church and the broader community is has has a history.
(03:47):
It's complicated, uh and uh, and so there's not it's
not like that there's a ton of people going to
mass in all these places every weekend, and so the
demands on my time are actually pretty modest. And that
also makes it possible to do some of the work
that I'm doing with the Guard.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So then do you then go preach at five different
parishes every weekend?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah. We actually just recently stopped masses at Cannonball at
least on a regular basis, because we had reached a
point where there was literally two people and they're steadfast
and faithful, but they came to me and said, Father,
(04:35):
I think we can we can all make our way
over to soul and and call it good where at
least then there's a sense of some kind of community
as versus this feeling pretty lonely here. So of course
we did that. And that's the kind of thing that's
happening all over the place, across the open prairie. These
(04:58):
small towns are being out that Cannonball isn't the first
parish or the first church to kind of stop being
a functioning place in the Diocese of Bismarck. This is
happening all over. It's just maybe a little bit more
advanced on Standing Rock again because of the relationship between
(05:24):
the community and the church. So the churches are already
pretty low attendance. Now add to it the broader emptying
out of the prairie population wise.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So how has the population then in the school gone
down as well?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yes, and so like at its peak we probably had
ninety students. This would have been in the seventies and eighties.
Since then we've decreased to about thirty in the school
at the same time. Uh, the the you know, a
(06:03):
bragging point for us is that our graduation rate for ours,
for students who go through our school and then eventually
go to the public school, because we only go up
through eighth grade who go to the public school, our
graduate graduation rate is around ninety percent, and the average
is closer to fifty or lower. And so our school
(06:25):
is good and the quality of the education we provide
provide our students is good. And and yet I understand
that it's complicated, and so we have a smaller number
of students. But but I'm happy to say that they
tend to do well.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So what'd you what led you to the calling of
becoming a priest.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well Jesus did the h the Yeah, So I remember
very clearly I was. I was I was probably like
ten years old, and my parents we were driving home
from from on a given Sunday and Mom turned around
in the suburban and said, hey, Chad. She didn't say
(07:09):
any names, but it was birtha y Honor Bertha said,
thinks that you might be a good priest one day.
And I just remember like an interior sense of like
that's true, that there's something true about that that I
just knew in the moment. And then so through high
(07:30):
school all the silliness and nonsense that one engages in
that in my heart I knew this was something I
was going to have to try at some point, but
I told no one, never discussed it with anyone until
really very shortly before I went into the seminary. And
(07:52):
so yeah, I always it always concerned me when I
was young, or when I was a young priest, like
why what did I do?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
This?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Was it because somebody said something and somehow I felt like, oh,
that's an obligation, that's a thing I have to do.
But in point of fact, the the in the in
the ordination, right there's a particular moment when the congregation
is asked to affirm, and obviously it's just sort.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Of a.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Part of the ritual at this point, but the community
is asked to affirm that they want this guy to
be a priest for them. So everybody applauds, yay. There's
all kinds of cheering. But I thought that's what was
happening in that moment was somebody from my home parish
saw me, you know, sitting in the pew not paying attention,
(08:49):
and said, I think he might be a good priest.
Uh and uh, And so I think that's good. I
think that's how it's supposed to work.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So you kind of touched on this little bit. But
how do you balance the Catholic faith with the traditional
beliefs of the indigenous populations?
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Yeah, so I don't to put it really simply, it's
not really my place to try to balance them because
I have no My area of responsibility is the square
acreage of the Catholic Indian Mission, and beyond that, I
(09:30):
have no authority or responsibility whatsoever. So I can have
whatever personal opinion I want on whatever I see around me,
and that and eight dollars will get you a cup
of coffee and Starbucks. It doesn't matter what I think
about Indigenous practices. At the same time, I think that
(09:57):
anything that leads to greater stability, spiritual stability, psychological stability,
needs to be recognized as a good thing. So I
definitely know that those on members of the tribe on
Standing Rock who take their spiritual practices seriously, whose spiritual
(10:23):
lives look in many respects very different from my own,
are the kinds of people that any community would want
as a part of their community. They're stable, they care
about their neighbors, they would share priorities that certainly I
think have immense value people living good, healthy, stable lives.
(10:49):
They want that for their community. So in that respect,
I would say we're all allies. We might approach it differently,
and I don't mean that to sound like I think
that all religions are equivalent, or that in the end
it's just about being nice to everyone. I don't think
that at all. At the same time, I think we
(11:11):
can recognize that we can be allies in an effort
even if we don't agree on everything in the details.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So then what is your role at the Saint Bernard
Mission School.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I'm the I would be the president. Superintendent probably wouldn't
be the right word, but I oversee, I hire staff.
But because of everything else that I've got going on,
I don't spend a lot of time day to day
in the school. When I had an associate priest, he
(11:50):
was teaching religion to students, and that's the ideal. That's
the ideal for the priests to be able to do that.
My circumstance is don't really allow that. But if there's
issues that staff is having, our principle or one of
the teachers, they can come to me, and I try
to be a part of this solution.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So then, what would people be surprised to know about
the community you serve in Standing Rock?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Surprised? I think that they would perhaps be surprised to
know that these men and women who go to mass
practice their Catholic faith week in and week out, that
(12:44):
they are willing to experience some amount of suffering for
doing so. So I've referenced a complicated history between the
Catholic Church and in indigenous communities. That's not surprising to anyone.
I think that probably would be one of the primary
(13:04):
narratives people would have knowledge of regarding the Catholic Church,
which is unfortunate, but it's a reality. And so these
are people who like being Catholic. Their faith matters to them,
and they live in a community where sometimes people will
say things or do things that are not always so
(13:25):
nice because they are Native American and Catholic. So they're
willing to live in this sort of in between, complicated,
challenging place for the sake of their faith and their integrity.
I think it's a remarkable thing that they're willing to
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So that kind of reminds me. You said, you know,
you don't think most people would be surprised to know that,
which I am surprised to know about the kind of
the conflict between, you know, the two. But it's also
I don't know if you were at our professional development
where we had an individual and she talked about even
the challenges between having you know, their own government, and
(14:09):
so I I think you don't see it as a
surprise because maybe you know it's kind of year above
my universe.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
It surprised me.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So so let's switch topics a little bit and go
to the Guard. What made you enlist in the Guard
after eleven years of being a priest.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Uh yeah, I so we were in the midst of
conflict in both Afghanistan and Iraq at the time. And uh,
when I had gone to seminary, the priest who was
the rector was also a National Guard chaplain. So I
saw him juggling a lot of things, uh and uh
(14:49):
and doing it well and and uh yeah. Seeing seeing
him serving as a soldier, just it caught my attention.
And I know that he had deployed several times, Monsignor
Brian Donahue, And so when he retired, I knew that
(15:09):
there wasn't any priest in the North Dakota National Guard,
and I knew that there were soldiers deploying and putting
their lives on the line. And the idea of Catholic
soldiers not having access to the Eucharist, to confession, to
those kinds of things that the Church offers people who
(15:31):
are in very very serious circumstances as a source of
encouragement so that they can keep their focus on what
they need to be doing and not about maybe existential
questions about the state of their soul, that they can
be at peace with themselves and then therefore a focus
on the task at hand. I wanted to be able
(15:53):
to do that. I thought somebody needs to do it,
and I can do push ups.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
So I know you as a chaplain in the National Guard.
What are some of the differences in being a Catholic
priest versus being that chaplain?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Yeah, so that's a really good question. The issue is
around some of the things that I think are real
folk of what you do here. So in a Catholic church,
how much diversity am I going to see in regard
to religion? Well, probably nearly none. Maybe spouses of parishioners
(16:41):
that would be about as diverse as it generally is
going to get. And that's the nature of a parish community.
In the Guard, a chaplain is responsible for serving the
spiritual needs or providing for the spiritual needs of everyone
in his or her unit. And so you know, the
(17:03):
kind of classic formulation is a chaplain either performs or provides.
Either I do the thing that needs to be done,
or I find someone who can do the thing that
needs to be done for a given soldier. I can't
provide any sort of Muslim, meaningful Muslim support. I'm not
(17:23):
an emam, and if I tried to pretend like I
was one, it would be an insult to a Muslim soldier,
so I'm not gonna do that. But then I do
need to find someone who can provide for him or
her what he or she needs. So these are the
kinds of things that I do as a chaplain that
have would there's no there's no analog to it in
(17:43):
a parish community.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So as the pastor or child'm sorry, chaplain in the
National Guard, there's obviously people, like you said, with multiple
faith beliefs. What have you learned working in that arena?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, I don't know that I've learned a lot. Actually,
there's there hasn't been any particular surprises part of it.
People are people, So a particular faith system may or
(18:22):
may not be helpful in terms of helping a person
be the best version of themselves or you know, live
more fully in reality and embrace the world as it
is or whatever. But human beings are human beings, and
I knew that going into the chaplaincy. I think I
(18:45):
think that that twenty one years or you know, ten
years at that point, ten years of service as a
priest in a in a parish probably was the most
important thing in preparation for coming into the National Guard,
not because I needed to know all the you know,
parish specific stuff, but because I've been interacting with human
(19:08):
beings in lots and lots of different circumstances for ten
years at that point, some of whom thought I had
a lot of really interesting and helpful things to offer,
and others who said very clearly you do not. And
having to work with everyone regardless of their opinion of
me or their worldview, like I have to take people
(19:32):
where they are. That prepared me very well for service
in the Guard.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
With that, then I will say I speak on most
of us, on the behalf of most of us in
National we are very grateful that we have you as
our state chaplain. It kind of had some big shoes
to fill with chaplaine it's in. But what really made
you want to take on that role?
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah, So I've wanted to serve in a full time
role with the National Guard for quite some time. I
certainly was something I was interested in. I'd always figured
I would start up at Camp Grafton in the chaplain
role there where the responsibilities maybe were a little less
(20:20):
robust and I could kind of learn the ropes of
full time work, and then maybe someday do what I'm
doing now. But when the opportunity presented itself, it's just
some things fell into line in a way that I
interpreted as providential, and so I kept Basically my prayer
(20:44):
was something along the lines of if you want to
this to not happen, blow it up at any time, Lord,
and everything just kept falling into place, one piece at
a time until someone finally called and said, yeah, we'd
like you to do that. And then even after that,
challenges in the parish around making it happen, and again
(21:08):
things just kind of eventually resolve fell into place, and
so yeah, I just I see it as providential.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Do you feel like you have to like separate yourself
as you know, I'm sorry, I'm not Catholic. Is it
father versus chaplain Gion? Like do you feel like they're
two distinct people?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
No?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
No, I really do experience what I'm doing in the
chaplaincy as an extension of who I am as a
priest with but it's emphasizing different aspects of it. Yeah,
(22:00):
and I am very grateful that the work that I've
been able to do in the Guard, working for soldiers
has been amazing. At certainly some of the most rewarding
work I've done in my years as a priest. So,
whether whether the soldier is Catholic or not, I'm a
(22:22):
priest serving this soldier's needs. And as whether it's a
parish or not. You have to meet people where they are.
You can't tell them where they should be and then
provide them with what I think they ought to have.
You have to meet them where they are.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So can you talk to us about your deployment?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Then?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
As a chaplain for a unit that was.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Out of state, yeah, So that was a volunteer thing.
I I wanted to see what it was like to
go on a deployment. And there's this thing called is
it mobe cop Is that what it is? Is?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
That might be an officer question answer.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
So there's this thing where you can you can just
basically go online and see if there's any units that
are looking for a chaplain or whatever. And so this
unit out of North Carolina was looking for a chaplain,
a Catholic priest to accompany them on this deployment to Kosovo.
(23:27):
And so I met with another priest and we between
the two of us, we split the deployment and so
I took the back half of it. Uh and uh,
and so we got to experience what it's like to
be deployed.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And that's why it was with a unit that wasn't
from North Dakota.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Is it what you thought it would be like?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Uh? You know what, it wasn't. It was really difficult
in fact. And it wasn't difficult because I had a
hard job, per se. It was difficult because by the
time I got there, this unit had been functioning together
for over six months and they were in the last
(24:11):
part of their deployment. So they already were like, I
have my friends, thank you very much. I have the
people that I know, that I trust, that I've grown
accustomed to working with. All that. Plus we've got three
months and we're gonna gut this out because by that
point in a deployment, everybody's kind of getting a little crispy.
(24:32):
And so there wasn't There wasn't a lot that I
had the opportunity. I didn't have a lot of opportunities
to engage. Plus it was North Carolina and it was
winter in Kosovo, and so they were just in their
hooches the whole time, like they had no interest in
going outside and having a snowball fight that was not
(24:53):
going to happen with this unit.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
So I could actually see you literally out there having
a snowball all light with soldiers.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
It did not happen. It could have happened, but they
did were not interested.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
So then one thing I don't know if a lot
of people understand, is that if you're a full time
employee in the National Guard, you still have your m
day or traditional drilling responsibilities. And for a number of us,
that's two different roles. So then, like, how, other than
actually being full time, how does that role differ from
(25:30):
your role as a chaplain with troop command?
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Hardly at all. Yeah, because you're right, a lot of
soldiers do one job. If they're full time, they do
whatever they do during the week, and then they've got
a particular responsibility with the unit to which they're assigned,
and it's a totally different thing. For me, I'm a
(25:55):
chaplain no matter what. And so, yeah, the biggest challenge,
and you could probably ask the commander of troop command
about this, The biggest challenge I have is actually not
letting my full time tech job invade my responsibilities to
the unit. Because drill weekend, Saturday, Sunday can easily just
(26:20):
become an extension of Thursday Friday. And I should be
working for troop command, not for not doing my state
support chaplain role exclusively on the weekends. But those two
things naturally bleed together. But yeah, the responsibilities, there needs
(26:41):
to be some sort of demarcation between the two of them.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, it's almost because I'm the same mos in both
full time and drilling, and instead of just five days
of work, it's essentially just turns into twelve days. And
unless you set those specific boundaries, it's very hard to
to separate full time versus That is absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Aside from separation, do you see any other challenges as
far as being the chaplain?
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Yeah, so, I mean the soldiers that we are serving,
I think are more and more. This is a whole,
it's a much bigger conversation. But for lots of reasons,
soldiers young people are less and less aware of their
(27:33):
own interior experience. They're less aware of who they are
as human beings. It would be the word shallower would
be inaccurate and unfair. But their ability to dig into
the depths of who they are, I think is more challenging,
(27:56):
And so I perceive a part of my responsibility as
helping young people know something about their true nature as
human beings, something about their worth and value and where
that flows from. And we don't have lots of time
(28:21):
with soldiers, and so those are really big conversations that,
you know, if you're in a sort of mentor relationship,
can unfold over the course of months, if not years.
You know, maybe once a year or twice a year,
or excuse me, once a year or once every couple
of years. I'll get a chance to do a presentation
(28:43):
to a whole room full of people on the topic
of what it means to be human, where their worth
and value lies, how to endure in a healthy way,
the burdens and challenges of life, what it means to
be spiritually aware, uh, and and to put that into
(29:07):
action in some way. I don't have a lot of
opportunities to do that, nor does any chaplain uh and uh.
And yet those are really kind of desperate needs I
think that that young people have. And part of what
makes it so serious is that they're not always aware
of how desperate the need is, and so they're dealing
(29:27):
with serious mental health challenges, serious struggles with suicidal ideation
and such, and and don't always have don't always know
where to go with that, and so that's something that
(29:49):
I that you know, we as a chaplain court work
really hard to address. That's a huge challenge.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
So then kind of into the your bio mentions a
focus on spiritual fitness, how would you explain that.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Yeah, I think being aware of one's need as a
human being for living some kind of spirituality, recognizing that
that I'm not the center of the universe, and that
(30:28):
the pain and suffering that I go through in this life,
that there's there's something behind that that it's it's not
just meaningless, it's not arbitrary, and it's not just the
universe being cruel. That being spiritually aware allows me to
(30:53):
to have things happen to me and not collapse in
on myself as a result of it self. Pity, unforgiveness,
unchecked rage, all of these things are incredibly destructive. They
(31:14):
tear a human being apart from the inside out. And
it's not it's not really necessarily a thing that we
can work through without without support. Like if it were
that easy, everyone would do it. It doesn't work that way,
(31:36):
And so that's a responsibility that we have. Yeah, I
don't know if that answer.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Your question, because I just remember when it kind of
became a focus in our resiliency in the trainings, and
I was like, Oh, they're going to tell me what
type of religion I you know, I think there was
a lot of misconceptions on my part at least, but
like you said, it's it's much broader than right.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Yeah, yeah, you know, And I even say that during
the training, like, if you want to know what I
do and what I think works, just ask. But that's
not what this is for. And that that is a
challenge too, because I can't. I can't. I can't give
soldiers the tools that have worked for me that I
(32:24):
think are true. All I can say is there are
tools out there, and if you ever want to pick
any of them up and start using them to make
better sense of your life, do that. You should do that.
So there's you know, I mean, that would be one
of those places where there's a tension between what it
(32:45):
means to be a chaplain and be a priest, because
as a priest in a parish, I would say there
are tools, and here they are, and this is how
you use them, and this is how you keep all
them hedges trimmed or whatever, as versus the chaplaincy where
it's there's a moment, there's a point where I can't
(33:07):
say anymore unless somebody is asking me about the specifics.
And that's just and it's right because of the nature
of the society in which we live. I have no
problem with that. But it means that then people suffer
because those are the limits. That's the way it works.
It's not a bad thing, but it's a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Pretty well, we're already to our last question. I'm going
to ask you the question that we ask everyone, and
that is how would you encourage your neighbor to create
an atmosphere of inclusion, a quality, diversity, and accessibility.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Well, I think for me, again speaking from the chaplain role,
it would be about recognizing the fundamental humanity of every person, that,
regardless of a person's physical circumstances, race, creed, ethnicity, economic status,
(34:04):
any one of those relatively exterior markers of a human person,
that all human beings are the same, That our needs
are the same, That are are our need for hope,
our need for for being loved and loving, forgiving and
(34:26):
being forgiven. These aren't optional things for us as humans.
They're absolutely necessary, and they transcend all of those exterior
markers that we can often divide ourselves by.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Thank you to everyone for tuning in to These are
your Neighbors with our guests Chaplain Chad Keon, Thank you
for wanting to get to know your neighbors as we
hold these important and necessary conversations. If you found this
conversation as important as we do, please make sure you
share it with your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Thank you for tuning in to these or Your Neighbors
a podcast hosted by the City of Bismarck Human Relations
Committee and produced by Dakota Media Access. The purpose of
the Bismarck Human Relations Committee is to create an atmosphere
of inclusion, equality, and accessibility through education and outreach to
recognize the value of a diverse community. For more information
(35:25):
about the Human Relations Committee, visit bismarckand dot gov.
Welcome to These Are Your Neighbors, a podcast hosted by
the City of Bismarck Human Relations Committee and produced by
Dakota Media Access. The purpose of the podcast is to
show the diversity of your neighbors and to encourage inclusivity
among the Bismarck community.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to These Are Your Neighbors? A podcast hosted by
Tia Jorgison and Sarganawitski, both members of the City of
Bismarck Human Relations Committee. Thank you for joining us as
we interview our neighbors who are subject matter experts and diversity, inclusion, accessibility,
and equality.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Our guest today is Chaplain Chad Gion. Chaplain Gion is
a Catholic priest. Ordained in two thousand and two. He
has served as a priest in the Diocese of Bismarck
in western North Dakota for twenty one years. His primary
responsibility has been as a pastor at various parishes across
the diocese. Chaplin Gian's military service dan in twenty thirteen,
(01:01):
when he was commissioned as a first lieutenant in the
North Dakota Army National Guard. He was deployed to Kosovo
for three months to provide Chaplain support for the thirtieth
Armored Brigade, an Army National Guard unit from North Carolina.
Chaplin Gion graduated from Regent Public School in North Dakota
in nineteen ninety four. He received a bachelor's degree in
(01:22):
philosophy from North Dakota State University, and he attended the
University of Saint Thomas in Minneapolis, where he received a
master's in divinity in two thousand and two. Chaplin Gion
lives and works in Sioux County, North Dakota, the northern
portion of the Standing Rock Sioux Indian Reservation. He is
the pastor of the Catholic Indian Mission, consisting of five
(01:44):
parishes in Saint Bernard Mission School. In August of twenty
twenty four, Chaplain Gion was hired to serve as the
State Support Chaplain for the North Dakota National Guard. In
this role, he develops training events for the North Dakota
Chaplain Corps. He provides direct support to the full time
staff of the North Dkota National Guard, and he also
works with the Commander's Readiness and Resilient Council to increase
(02:07):
North Quota's National Guards spiritual fitness Welcome Sir.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Great to be with you, my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
So, as Tia said, you're the pastor for the Catholic
Indian Mission. So what makes you or maybe you decide
to take on the position of the chaplain of the
National Guard and to commute daily back and forth to Bismarck.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Oh yeah, it's I make bad decisions all the time.
This not uncommon at all. It's a lot of responsibility
and it's a lot of travel. But I think there
are some similarities in terms of two populations that are
(02:47):
often misunderstood or who are easily kind of like who
are can be intentionally misunderstood? Huh? And so to be
able to serving, to be able to serve these these populations,
uh is. I love being able to do it. It's
(03:09):
a lot of work, but I think that yeah, experience
in one leads to the ability to do a solid
job in the other. So it doesn't bother me at all.
The travel.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
So then what's it like overseeing multiple parishes at once?
Speaker 4 (03:26):
It is a challenge, but you know, this is part
of the the reality of being uh. In forty eight's
is or in the in Standing Rock, the relationship between
the church and the broader community is has has a history.
(03:47):
It's complicated, uh and uh, and so there's not it's
not like that there's a ton of people going to
mass in all these places every weekend, and so the
demands on my time are actually pretty modest. And that
also makes it possible to do some of the work
that I'm doing with the Guard.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
So then do you then go preach at five different
parishes every weekend?
Speaker 4 (04:13):
Yeah. We actually just recently stopped masses at Cannonball at
least on a regular basis, because we had reached a
point where there was literally two people and they're steadfast
and faithful, but they came to me and said, Father,
(04:35):
I think we can we can all make our way
over to soul and and call it good where at
least then there's a sense of some kind of community
as versus this feeling pretty lonely here. So of course
we did that. And that's the kind of thing that's
happening all over the place, across the open prairie. These
(04:58):
small towns are being out that Cannonball isn't the first
parish or the first church to kind of stop being
a functioning place in the Diocese of Bismarck. This is
happening all over. It's just maybe a little bit more
advanced on Standing Rock again because of the relationship between
(05:24):
the community and the church. So the churches are already
pretty low attendance. Now add to it the broader emptying
out of the prairie population wise.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
So how has the population then in the school gone
down as well?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
Yes, and so like at its peak we probably had
ninety students. This would have been in the seventies and eighties.
Since then we've decreased to about thirty in the school
at the same time. Uh, the the you know, a
(06:03):
bragging point for us is that our graduation rate for ours,
for students who go through our school and then eventually
go to the public school, because we only go up
through eighth grade who go to the public school, our
graduate graduation rate is around ninety percent, and the average
is closer to fifty or lower. And so our school
(06:25):
is good and the quality of the education we provide
provide our students is good. And and yet I understand
that it's complicated, and so we have a smaller number
of students. But but I'm happy to say that they
tend to do well.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So what'd you what led you to the calling of
becoming a priest.
Speaker 4 (06:47):
Well Jesus did the h the Yeah, So I remember
very clearly I was. I was I was probably like
ten years old, and my parents we were driving home
from from on a given Sunday and Mom turned around
in the suburban and said, hey, Chad. She didn't say
(07:09):
any names, but it was birtha y Honor Bertha said,
thinks that you might be a good priest one day.
And I just remember like an interior sense of like
that's true, that there's something true about that that I
just knew in the moment. And then so through high
(07:30):
school all the silliness and nonsense that one engages in
that in my heart I knew this was something I
was going to have to try at some point, but
I told no one, never discussed it with anyone until
really very shortly before I went into the seminary. And
(07:52):
so yeah, I always it always concerned me when I
was young, or when I was a young priest, like
why what did I do?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
This?
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Was it because somebody said something and somehow I felt like, oh,
that's an obligation, that's a thing I have to do.
But in point of fact, the the in the in
the ordination, right there's a particular moment when the congregation
is asked to affirm, and obviously it's just sort.
Speaker 1 (08:24):
Of a.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
Part of the ritual at this point, but the community
is asked to affirm that they want this guy to
be a priest for them. So everybody applauds, yay. There's
all kinds of cheering. But I thought that's what was
happening in that moment was somebody from my home parish
saw me, you know, sitting in the pew not paying attention,
(08:49):
and said, I think he might be a good priest.
Uh and uh, And so I think that's good. I
think that's how it's supposed to work.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
So you kind of touched on this little bit. But
how do you balance the Catholic faith with the traditional
beliefs of the indigenous populations?
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Yeah, so I don't to put it really simply, it's
not really my place to try to balance them because
I have no My area of responsibility is the square
acreage of the Catholic Indian Mission, and beyond that, I
(09:30):
have no authority or responsibility whatsoever. So I can have
whatever personal opinion I want on whatever I see around me,
and that and eight dollars will get you a cup
of coffee and Starbucks. It doesn't matter what I think
about Indigenous practices. At the same time, I think that
(09:57):
anything that leads to greater stability, spiritual stability, psychological stability,
needs to be recognized as a good thing. So I
definitely know that those on members of the tribe on
Standing Rock who take their spiritual practices seriously, whose spiritual
(10:23):
lives look in many respects very different from my own,
are the kinds of people that any community would want
as a part of their community. They're stable, they care
about their neighbors, they would share priorities that certainly I
think have immense value people living good, healthy, stable lives.
(10:49):
They want that for their community. So in that respect,
I would say we're all allies. We might approach it differently,
and I don't mean that to sound like I think
that all religions are equivalent, or that in the end
it's just about being nice to everyone. I don't think
that at all. At the same time, I think we
(11:11):
can recognize that we can be allies in an effort
even if we don't agree on everything in the details.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
So then what is your role at the Saint Bernard
Mission School.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
I'm the I would be the president. Superintendent probably wouldn't
be the right word, but I oversee, I hire staff.
But because of everything else that I've got going on,
I don't spend a lot of time day to day
in the school. When I had an associate priest, he
(11:50):
was teaching religion to students, and that's the ideal. That's
the ideal for the priests to be able to do that.
My circumstance is don't really allow that. But if there's
issues that staff is having, our principle or one of
the teachers, they can come to me, and I try
to be a part of this solution.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
So then, what would people be surprised to know about
the community you serve in Standing Rock?
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Surprised? I think that they would perhaps be surprised to
know that these men and women who go to mass
practice their Catholic faith week in and week out, that
(12:44):
they are willing to experience some amount of suffering for
doing so. So I've referenced a complicated history between the
Catholic Church and in indigenous communities. That's not surprising to anyone.
I think that probably would be one of the primary
(13:04):
narratives people would have knowledge of regarding the Catholic Church,
which is unfortunate, but it's a reality. And so these
are people who like being Catholic. Their faith matters to them,
and they live in a community where sometimes people will
say things or do things that are not always so
(13:25):
nice because they are Native American and Catholic. So they're
willing to live in this sort of in between, complicated,
challenging place for the sake of their faith and their integrity.
I think it's a remarkable thing that they're willing to
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So that kind of reminds me. You said, you know,
you don't think most people would be surprised to know that,
which I am surprised to know about the kind of
the conflict between, you know, the two. But it's also
I don't know if you were at our professional development
where we had an individual and she talked about even
the challenges between having you know, their own government, and
(14:09):
so I I think you don't see it as a
surprise because maybe you know it's kind of year above
my universe.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
It surprised me.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
So so let's switch topics a little bit and go
to the Guard. What made you enlist in the Guard
after eleven years of being a priest.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
Uh yeah, I so we were in the midst of
conflict in both Afghanistan and Iraq at the time. And uh,
when I had gone to seminary, the priest who was
the rector was also a National Guard chaplain. So I
saw him juggling a lot of things, uh and uh
(14:49):
and doing it well and and uh yeah. Seeing seeing
him serving as a soldier, just it caught my attention.
And I know that he had deployed several times, Monsignor
Brian Donahue, And so when he retired, I knew that
(15:09):
there wasn't any priest in the North Dakota National Guard,
and I knew that there were soldiers deploying and putting
their lives on the line. And the idea of Catholic
soldiers not having access to the Eucharist, to confession, to
those kinds of things that the Church offers people who
(15:31):
are in very very serious circumstances as a source of
encouragement so that they can keep their focus on what
they need to be doing and not about maybe existential
questions about the state of their soul, that they can
be at peace with themselves and then therefore a focus
on the task at hand. I wanted to be able
(15:53):
to do that. I thought somebody needs to do it,
and I can do push ups.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
So I know you as a chaplain in the National Guard.
What are some of the differences in being a Catholic
priest versus being that chaplain?
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Yeah, so that's a really good question. The issue is
around some of the things that I think are real
folk of what you do here. So in a Catholic church,
how much diversity am I going to see in regard
to religion? Well, probably nearly none. Maybe spouses of parishioners
(16:41):
that would be about as diverse as it generally is
going to get. And that's the nature of a parish community.
In the Guard, a chaplain is responsible for serving the
spiritual needs or providing for the spiritual needs of everyone
in his or her unit. And so you know, the
(17:03):
kind of classic formulation is a chaplain either performs or provides.
Either I do the thing that needs to be done,
or I find someone who can do the thing that
needs to be done for a given soldier. I can't
provide any sort of Muslim, meaningful Muslim support. I'm not
(17:23):
an emam, and if I tried to pretend like I
was one, it would be an insult to a Muslim soldier,
so I'm not gonna do that. But then I do
need to find someone who can provide for him or
her what he or she needs. So these are the
kinds of things that I do as a chaplain that
have would there's no there's no analog to it in
(17:43):
a parish community.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
So as the pastor or child'm sorry, chaplain in the
National Guard, there's obviously people, like you said, with multiple
faith beliefs. What have you learned working in that arena?
Speaker 4 (17:58):
Yeah, I don't know that I've learned a lot. Actually,
there's there hasn't been any particular surprises part of it.
People are people, So a particular faith system may or
(18:22):
may not be helpful in terms of helping a person
be the best version of themselves or you know, live
more fully in reality and embrace the world as it
is or whatever. But human beings are human beings, and
I knew that going into the chaplaincy. I think I
(18:45):
think that that twenty one years or you know, ten
years at that point, ten years of service as a
priest in a in a parish probably was the most
important thing in preparation for coming into the National Guard,
not because I needed to know all the you know,
parish specific stuff, but because I've been interacting with human
(19:08):
beings in lots and lots of different circumstances for ten
years at that point, some of whom thought I had
a lot of really interesting and helpful things to offer,
and others who said very clearly you do not. And
having to work with everyone regardless of their opinion of
me or their worldview, like I have to take people
(19:32):
where they are. That prepared me very well for service
in the Guard.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
With that, then I will say I speak on most
of us, on the behalf of most of us in
National we are very grateful that we have you as
our state chaplain. It kind of had some big shoes
to fill with chaplaine it's in. But what really made
you want to take on that role?
Speaker 4 (19:56):
Yeah, So I've wanted to serve in a full time
role with the National Guard for quite some time. I
certainly was something I was interested in. I'd always figured
I would start up at Camp Grafton in the chaplain
role there where the responsibilities maybe were a little less
(20:20):
robust and I could kind of learn the ropes of
full time work, and then maybe someday do what I'm
doing now. But when the opportunity presented itself, it's just
some things fell into line in a way that I
interpreted as providential, and so I kept Basically my prayer
(20:44):
was something along the lines of if you want to
this to not happen, blow it up at any time, Lord,
and everything just kept falling into place, one piece at
a time until someone finally called and said, yeah, we'd
like you to do that. And then even after that,
challenges in the parish around making it happen, and again
(21:08):
things just kind of eventually resolve fell into place, and
so yeah, I just I see it as providential.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Do you feel like you have to like separate yourself
as you know, I'm sorry, I'm not Catholic. Is it
father versus chaplain Gion? Like do you feel like they're
two distinct people?
Speaker 2 (21:36):
No?
Speaker 4 (21:38):
No, I really do experience what I'm doing in the
chaplaincy as an extension of who I am as a
priest with but it's emphasizing different aspects of it. Yeah,
(22:00):
and I am very grateful that the work that I've
been able to do in the Guard, working for soldiers
has been amazing. At certainly some of the most rewarding
work I've done in my years as a priest. So,
whether whether the soldier is Catholic or not, I'm a
(22:22):
priest serving this soldier's needs. And as whether it's a
parish or not. You have to meet people where they are.
You can't tell them where they should be and then
provide them with what I think they ought to have.
You have to meet them where they are.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
So can you talk to us about your deployment?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Then?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
As a chaplain for a unit that was.
Speaker 4 (22:44):
Out of state, yeah, So that was a volunteer thing.
I I wanted to see what it was like to
go on a deployment. And there's this thing called is
it mobe cop Is that what it is? Is?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
That might be an officer question answer.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
So there's this thing where you can you can just
basically go online and see if there's any units that
are looking for a chaplain or whatever. And so this
unit out of North Carolina was looking for a chaplain,
a Catholic priest to accompany them on this deployment to Kosovo.
(23:27):
And so I met with another priest and we between
the two of us, we split the deployment and so
I took the back half of it. Uh and uh,
and so we got to experience what it's like to
be deployed.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And that's why it was with a unit that wasn't
from North Dakota.
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Is it what you thought it would be like?
Speaker 4 (23:50):
Uh? You know what, it wasn't. It was really difficult
in fact. And it wasn't difficult because I had a
hard job, per se. It was difficult because by the
time I got there, this unit had been functioning together
for over six months and they were in the last
(24:11):
part of their deployment. So they already were like, I
have my friends, thank you very much. I have the
people that I know, that I trust, that I've grown
accustomed to working with. All that. Plus we've got three
months and we're gonna gut this out because by that
point in a deployment, everybody's kind of getting a little crispy.
(24:32):
And so there wasn't There wasn't a lot that I
had the opportunity. I didn't have a lot of opportunities
to engage. Plus it was North Carolina and it was
winter in Kosovo, and so they were just in their
hooches the whole time, like they had no interest in
going outside and having a snowball fight that was not
(24:53):
going to happen with this unit.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
So I could actually see you literally out there having
a snowball all light with soldiers.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
It did not happen. It could have happened, but they
did were not interested.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
So then one thing I don't know if a lot
of people understand, is that if you're a full time
employee in the National Guard, you still have your m
day or traditional drilling responsibilities. And for a number of us,
that's two different roles. So then, like, how, other than
actually being full time, how does that role differ from
(25:30):
your role as a chaplain with troop command?
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Hardly at all. Yeah, because you're right, a lot of
soldiers do one job. If they're full time, they do
whatever they do during the week, and then they've got
a particular responsibility with the unit to which they're assigned,
and it's a totally different thing. For me, I'm a
(25:55):
chaplain no matter what. And so, yeah, the biggest challenge,
and you could probably ask the commander of troop command
about this, The biggest challenge I have is actually not
letting my full time tech job invade my responsibilities to
the unit. Because drill weekend, Saturday, Sunday can easily just
(26:20):
become an extension of Thursday Friday. And I should be
working for troop command, not for not doing my state
support chaplain role exclusively on the weekends. But those two
things naturally bleed together. But yeah, the responsibilities, there needs
(26:41):
to be some sort of demarcation between the two of them.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, it's almost because I'm the same mos in both
full time and drilling, and instead of just five days
of work, it's essentially just turns into twelve days. And
unless you set those specific boundaries, it's very hard to
to separate full time versus That is absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Aside from separation, do you see any other challenges as
far as being the chaplain?
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Yeah, so, I mean the soldiers that we are serving,
I think are more and more. This is a whole,
it's a much bigger conversation. But for lots of reasons,
soldiers young people are less and less aware of their
(27:33):
own interior experience. They're less aware of who they are
as human beings. It would be the word shallower would
be inaccurate and unfair. But their ability to dig into
the depths of who they are, I think is more challenging,
(27:56):
And so I perceive a part of my responsibility as
helping young people know something about their true nature as
human beings, something about their worth and value and where
that flows from. And we don't have lots of time
(28:21):
with soldiers, and so those are really big conversations that,
you know, if you're in a sort of mentor relationship,
can unfold over the course of months, if not years.
You know, maybe once a year or twice a year,
or excuse me, once a year or once every couple
of years. I'll get a chance to do a presentation
(28:43):
to a whole room full of people on the topic
of what it means to be human, where their worth
and value lies, how to endure in a healthy way,
the burdens and challenges of life, what it means to
be spiritually aware, uh, and and to put that into
(29:07):
action in some way. I don't have a lot of
opportunities to do that, nor does any chaplain uh and uh.
And yet those are really kind of desperate needs I
think that that young people have. And part of what
makes it so serious is that they're not always aware
of how desperate the need is, and so they're dealing
(29:27):
with serious mental health challenges, serious struggles with suicidal ideation
and such, and and don't always have don't always know
where to go with that, and so that's something that
(29:49):
I that you know, we as a chaplain court work
really hard to address. That's a huge challenge.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
So then kind of into the your bio mentions a
focus on spiritual fitness, how would you explain that.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Yeah, I think being aware of one's need as a
human being for living some kind of spirituality, recognizing that
that I'm not the center of the universe, and that
(30:28):
the pain and suffering that I go through in this life,
that there's there's something behind that that it's it's not
just meaningless, it's not arbitrary, and it's not just the
universe being cruel. That being spiritually aware allows me to
(30:53):
to have things happen to me and not collapse in
on myself as a result of it self. Pity, unforgiveness,
unchecked rage, all of these things are incredibly destructive. They
(31:14):
tear a human being apart from the inside out. And
it's not it's not really necessarily a thing that we
can work through without without support. Like if it were
that easy, everyone would do it. It doesn't work that way,
(31:36):
And so that's a responsibility that we have. Yeah, I
don't know if that answer.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Your question, because I just remember when it kind of
became a focus in our resiliency in the trainings, and
I was like, Oh, they're going to tell me what
type of religion I you know, I think there was
a lot of misconceptions on my part at least, but
like you said, it's it's much broader than right.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Yeah, yeah, you know, And I even say that during
the training, like, if you want to know what I
do and what I think works, just ask. But that's
not what this is for. And that that is a
challenge too, because I can't. I can't. I can't give
soldiers the tools that have worked for me that I
(32:24):
think are true. All I can say is there are
tools out there, and if you ever want to pick
any of them up and start using them to make
better sense of your life, do that. You should do that.
So there's you know, I mean, that would be one
of those places where there's a tension between what it
(32:45):
means to be a chaplain and be a priest, because
as a priest in a parish, I would say there
are tools, and here they are, and this is how
you use them, and this is how you keep all
them hedges trimmed or whatever, as versus the chaplaincy where
it's there's a moment, there's a point where I can't
(33:07):
say anymore unless somebody is asking me about the specifics.
And that's just and it's right because of the nature
of the society in which we live. I have no
problem with that. But it means that then people suffer
because those are the limits. That's the way it works.
It's not a bad thing, but it's a hard thing.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Pretty well, we're already to our last question. I'm going
to ask you the question that we ask everyone, and
that is how would you encourage your neighbor to create
an atmosphere of inclusion, a quality, diversity, and accessibility.
Speaker 4 (33:43):
Well, I think for me, again speaking from the chaplain role,
it would be about recognizing the fundamental humanity of every person, that,
regardless of a person's physical circumstances, race, creed, ethnicity, economic status,
(34:04):
any one of those relatively exterior markers of a human person,
that all human beings are the same, That our needs
are the same, That are are our need for hope,
our need for for being loved and loving, forgiving and
(34:26):
being forgiven. These aren't optional things for us as humans.
They're absolutely necessary, and they transcend all of those exterior
markers that we can often divide ourselves by.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Thank you to everyone for tuning in to These are
your Neighbors with our guests Chaplain Chad Keon, Thank you
for wanting to get to know your neighbors as we
hold these important and necessary conversations. If you found this
conversation as important as we do, please make sure you
share it with your neighbor.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Thank you for tuning in to these or Your Neighbors
a podcast hosted by the City of Bismarck Human Relations
Committee and produced by Dakota Media Access. The purpose of
the Bismarck Human Relations Committee is to create an atmosphere
of inclusion, equality, and accessibility through education and outreach to
recognize the value of a diverse community. For more information
(35:25):
about the Human Relations Committee, visit bismarckand dot gov.
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