Breaking Down Free Agency, the Kelsey Plum/Jewell Loyd Trade, & more with Seerat Sohi

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
What's up Dell real quick before we get into the
actual pod with Shiraz from at the Ringer, I do
just want to hit really briefly on the Brianna Jones
deal to Atlanta, because that's not something that Syrah and
I got through. That happened after we were done recording. Unfortunately,
it took me by quite a bit of surprise. I
think my first thought automatically when this happened was, I

(00:34):
don't really know how a big Bree Jones front court works.
Obviously talent like a ton of talent and vacuum like
three very good eg MVP winner in our prime in
like in a vacuum, just two very good players who
clearly contribute to winning. I am fascinating to see what
that fit is. After talking to Steve Jones, Steve Jones

(00:58):
Unior and my guy from the Dunkers about if you
don't follow him and his work, you should be doing
that already. Uh, guests in the pod. In front of
the pod, I can see more of like how they
can fit offensively. There's a lot of stuff they can
do working high low, playing off one another that could
be really difficult, like for teams to play against, like obviously,
I think beg like, are we gonna I presume we're

(01:20):
going to see her highest volume three point attempt season ever,
and I think that's for the best, especially if you're
pairing them together, like maybe one of them is coming
off the bench. I would doubt it. That doesn't make
a lot of sense to me in terms of just
like asset allocation, like kind of playing things out. But
obviously you never know how each season is gonna go.

(01:43):
I think so I can see that. My other thing,
like going right off that is I just am interested
because having watched carls Mesco's teams at Florida Golf Coast
and you know, going and diving into a lot of
things that he's talked about and just understand his philosophy.
Playing double big is not something that I envisioned with this,

(02:05):
and maybe I you know, Dan Pato was incredible at
his job. He's he did a great job building the
aces to where they're at before he moved to Atlanta,
and I trust him and his vision. But I just
am interested to see how this all plays out. I
don't entirely know what to think. I think my bigger
question is more on the defensive end. Of of the

(02:26):
ball we saw last year. You know, both these players
are very clearly fives, Like I don't think either of
them should spend any time playing the four. And so
that's where I probably have more questions, like how do
you make this work? Defensively, I think that there's a
framework to be a really interesting and exciting team in Atlanta,

(02:48):
and I just just have some questions. I think the
bigger thing that I come back to you though, that
you know, I had to sit with it and think
on it more. I'm like, free agents want to come
to the Atlanta Dream and that freaking mas Like. I
don't want to undersell that, especially in the current market.
We're in climate wart and I should say in terms
of like where the w's at, teams having practice facilities,

(03:09):
not having practice facilities, like being able to be the
Adland Dream and say Brianna Jones wants to come play
with us, She's been an All Star. EG wants to
come and play with us. She's been an MVP, she's
been an All Star, she's been everything like that matters.
I don't want to understell that. I think you look
at what this the past two years where you see
a lot of potential. You see what this group could be,

(03:30):
but you also saw the shortcomings. I'm not entirely sure
how all of this kind of wraps into one thing
that is cohesive, but I'm fascinated to see what happens.
And again, Atlanta's making moves, everybody's making moves, So I'm
excited to kind of buckle into the ride and see

(03:51):
what the rest of this free agency period looks like.
Particularly is we get more stuff publicly on the first
but yeah, it's tapping starting up with serious right now,
dive into all manner of things with free agency. The
trades talk quite a bit about stuff with the draft,
so enjoy. Welcome to another episode of They've Got Now.

(04:11):
I'm really excited. We joined, uh first time on my pod,
but multiple times speaking together obviously see it. Sorry from
over at the Ringer. If you don't listen to the
Ringer w NBA show, what the hell are you doing?
Go listen to that too. See it had a really
great pod breaking things down with Seanny Powell from over
at No Cap Space. Fully recommend that we're gonna do
a lot of the same stuff today because man, everything

(04:32):
is happening in w see it first and foremost, how
you doing.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I'm great, I'm so excited to be here.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Yeah, I'm excited to chop it up. We already like
hashed through everything before we even jumped on, and.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
Uh now I was like, yeah, yeah, it was like
when do we hit the record button because we don't
want to know exactly give it our best takes off camera.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Yeah, yeah, you find the balance at some point, but
we have to start off. Obviously spin drifts. This is
not uh, it's not I'm not giving them free pub
but maybe I am. But if they do want to
sponsor me.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
They should be. I mean, you influenced me, You influenced me.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Hey, spin drinking spin drift can And then here it's like,
all right, well you know what, before we start, I
gotta go get one. And here we are. Everyone go
drink blood orange spin drift.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's the best, the number one pick.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
It is the number one pick. What's the worst spin drift?

Speaker 2 (05:25):
Honestly, this is gonna be my answer for just about
every sort of sparkling water option. But I just I'm
not a line person.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
Ohe lime.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Also the half tea half lemon not really doing it
for me.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Oh yeah, I don't like that I don't see. I
just don't like tea in general though.

Speaker 2 (05:40):
Okay for me, and that's the tea.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Okay, all right, let's talk about Okay, let's start with
the thing that's happened most recently, or I guess second
most recently. Kelsey Mitchell re signs with Indiana, which this
was was kind of the one that was sneaking up
a little. But I was curious to see what would
happen here. I think that there was enough in the water,
Like anytime somebody gets core and I'm automatically thinking are

(06:05):
they getting traded? Especially with what this off season is
looking like. But pretty big deal for Indiana to have
Kelsey Mitchell back. Where are you at with with this happening,
and just kind of what you were feeling before it happened.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Definitely was starting to get a little bit nervous, But
at the same time, you weren't really hearing her name
in a lot of trade rumors. You were hearing it
in some trade suggestions, especially after Seattle got the number
two pick from the Kelsey Plump trade, see if they
wanted to maybe just replenished Jewel Lloyd with Kelsey Mitchell,
who's kind of a similar player. But obviously this is

(06:38):
great for Indiana to be able to bring her back
on the core one year deal. I believe like the
full super mix, and yeah, it's a w for them.
I thought it was interesting too that I can't I
think it was Kelly who was talking about it. I
can't remember exactly who it was, but I think they,
you know, they said something along the lines of we
didn't just want to, you know, core her and then

(06:59):
bring her back. They sort of like wanted to bring
her in and talk to her about how she was
feeling about everything with a franchise, because I know it's
been a it's been an up and down ride for Kelsey,
right because she spent you know, six seven years before
the Caitlyn Clark era kind of going through it with
a franchise that wasn't really that relevant, and you could

(07:19):
understand why she might have been excited to hit free
agency and maybe go elsewhere. Then then all of a sudden,
all of their fortunes change and she's in this perfect
basketball situation that's also a really great off court situation
in terms of marketing and all of that. And you know,
you can tell she has a great relationship with with
Caitlyn Clark, who she called, you know, one of the

(07:40):
best people that she's ever met, and then you knew
that she was going through it with, you know, just
grieving the loss of her father. So it seems like
they also might have been able to smooth things over
to hopefully keep her there long term, because you do
have to think about those things when you are, you know,
in any business dealing with anybody, but especially somebody you

(08:01):
want to be with long term. You don't necessarily just
want to say, hey, well we can core you, so
we're just going to care you. It did seem like
they wanted to make sure that she wanted to be
there as well, and that potentially if she didn't want
to be there, she wouldn't be there. Maybe they would
have actually been willing to put her on the trademark.
At least that's me reading the tea leaves a little
bit from everything they've been saying, So I'm not saying
that I have any insider information or anything like that,

(08:22):
but that was just kind of my read on it.
So I think it's great for Indiana, and it seems like,
you know, it's where Kelsey wants to be as well.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, No, I like, I like everything you said, particularly
on the aspect of like wanting to smooth that over
and kind of form the bridge for her being there
longer term, because I think Lexi Brown with the sparks
to start up in New pot recently, she had a
really good quote and I think it's yesterday saying like

(08:49):
for her, like, at least from a player perspective, being
coreed is like being in purgatory a little bit, because yeah,
and like I think it's obviously like like we're saying,
like there's there's real importance in the business aspect of it.
From a team perspective, like you don't just want a
player to go away for nothing, but also, like you said,
like you want to have a real relationship with it
and like build it towards like ken this be something
in the future, And particularly with this offseason number one,

(09:15):
I think sneakly like just a huge, very important offseason
for Indiana, but also like you can't have a player
who is was was your second best player last year
for most of the season, uh, not be there anymore
for nothing, Like so it's just kind of like figuring
that out and throwing that Needle's key I'm excited just

(09:36):
from like the pure standpoint of Kelsey ab Caitlin getting
another year together. Like I understand that a lot of
Indiana fans have been like clamoring for a splash and
making something big happen. I think one of the tough
parts is, like there's really not a lot for Indiana
to give up right now that is super valuable to
other teams that are trying to win right now in

(09:57):
this moment, unless you're trading you know, Kelsey. But also
I think there's just real value in this team running
it backs from home. Put it like obviously there's gonna
be some differences, and I want to see differences on
the roster particularly and like just versatility in the front court,
but having that group together that was very close to

(10:19):
getting to the second round of the playoffs in spite
of some of the flaws they had, Like, I think
there's real value to having that continuity when we're looking
at like literally every team on the market, including some
teams that went deep in the playoffs, are going to
have pretty significant changes. So I'm gonna be I'm gonna
be fascinating how much that plays into this year. But
I think just being able to bring back Elsie is

(10:40):
as big of a win as you can get for
Indiana right now.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, so let's I guess, let's let's start with the
good there, right. Obviously, bringing everybody back is great. I
think that Caitlin, after having a legitimate off season for
the first time in over a year, is going to
be awesome. We've seen everybody in the videos of her practicing.
You know, they hire Kevin Porter. Developmentally, I think it's

(11:06):
going to be a great year for her. Aliah Boston,
we've seen it. Unrivaled just seems like she throughout the
course of the season adapted to a quicker style of play,
but now seems like she's adapting even more, Like even
as the games have gone on. I remember watching the
first game and she looked pretty winded by the end
of it, and now she's just like running up and
down the court. I think Unrivaled is going to be

(11:28):
really great for like just unlocking more of a transition
game for Aliyah. So I love that. I love the
idea of like a full year of like Kelsey Mitchell
understanding what her role is and all of that. But
at the same time, you know, when it comes to
this offseason. I think the biggest thing for me is

(11:49):
you don't when they gave up Tammy fag Benley in
the expansion Draft. I think the explanation everybody was given
was that, like, hey, we have off seas and moves coming,
this is gonna make sense. Maybe there was a fear
of having to lock up Temmy on long term money,
or not long term money, but on a big deal,
and maybe not being able to make some of the

(12:11):
free agent moves that you want to make. I have
yet to see those free agent moves. And the reality
of the situation is that she was in all of
their best lineups. It wasn't like the starting lineup was
not their best lineup. It was the starters with Temmy
in for lists and Dantis as well because of the
four spacing that she provides. But just you know, the

(12:31):
way that Temmy was able to just change the pace
of the game with her running is something that I
think they're gonna miss and have not replenished as of now.
Now right now, we don't really know where, Like we're
still kind of weight. I feel like everybody's just staring
at their phones waiting for like the SATU SAB notification
it almost feels like Indiana might have put all of

(12:53):
their eggs in that basket, and if that doesn't work out,
I just don't really know where they're going from there.
And if it's like a Natasha Howard, then I'm kind
of like I would have rather just kept them, even
if it means like you give up a Grace Burger,
because I think I just don't. I don't like, maybe
this is a little too Darren Moriy of me, but
I don't care that much about the backup position of

(13:15):
your best player. It's just not that important that somebody
you know. And then hey, look we still have time
in free agency, right so we'll see what happens. There's
some trade options out there. But right now I'm a
little bit I just you don't have to make a
quick decision. You don't or you don't have to make
like a rash decision just to get just to be win. Now,
if the price Forsatu is just simply too high or

(13:38):
somebody else is just simply too high, that's fine. I
understand that, But for me, it's just more looking back
a little bit sadeways at that temmy decision.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think that one
was kind of surprising when it happened, and especially when
you look at like, I mean, she wasn't even making
all that much money comparatively, Like so it's there was
really just not a lot you can complain about with
with having temmy fag that on your team from a
basketball standpoint, and like, yeah, I agree. I think, to me,

(14:05):
this even more hits home, like I need the Fever
to like really hit their first round pick out of
the park, Like I really want to see that happen.
I think that they're in a position where they can
still do that because I mean, the draft is never
going to shake out exactly how I envision it, but
if they're really smart, like to me, I don't know
about that, but like I yeah, I just really think

(14:28):
continuing to be as versatile as possible because to me,
like again, this team was so getting the clutch towards
the end of last year and they still had real
problems with being able to just like, can we put
out a five player lineup that isn't leading points one
way or string to score at at the other end,
Because to me, the bigger problem was being able to
score in the playoffs, Like as good as this offense

(14:49):
was when it got down to and it was interesting.
I had a fan going back and forth me forth
with me about it the other day, like saying, it's
too easy to blitz Caitlin, Like we need a backup
point guard, another facilitator. I'm like to me, if you're
getting blitzed, it's because somebody on the court can be
helped off of. And like that was the biggest problem
for me this last year. So I want to see
more of like just figuring that out. Yeah, get wings,

(15:13):
stop trying to add bigs, get wings, get fours in
the roster. There was like no wings on this team
last year. Lexi Hall is like borderline of wings. She's
more of a three guard. So yeah, Indiana please uh.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, I mean I think Steph White will help, but
with that too, like to your point, I I or
maybe more to that fans point. Even when they were
playing their most optimal lineups by the end of the
year in the half court, it did start to feel
like teams just realize that the best thing you can
do with them is filter everything through Aliyah Boston as
a shot creator, not as a playmaker. Don't let her

(15:48):
be a playmaker and kind of force her to go
to that floater, which, hey, she can make that floater.
It's a great shot. But when you think about distilling
an offense down to its worst choices, it did start
to feel like, Okay, we're gonna blitch. We're not gonna
leave Lexi open. Tammy will be on the course. She's
not really much of a floor spacer. Necessarily every once
in a while, she was not really much of us

(16:09):
floor spacer, and we're not gonna let her. We're not
gonna let Aliah hit somebody on the short roll for
a shot at the rim. So it's gonna be a
Leah floaters and that's not the most efficient offense that
you can have. But it also look, this wasn't the
most creative creative offense in the world either. So I'm
just even if they do completely run it back, like,
I'm pretty excited to see what Steph White does. But
here point of more wings, I'm curious becouse anybody in

(16:30):
particular you want Maybe this is somebody who's more on
the on the guard level, but one player who I
just think is has to be very very upset right now.
It's probably just like it's cooking up a storm and unrivaled,
Like you know, she's just putting her elbow into into
these meals for everybody right now? Is is Marina Maybury?

Speaker 1 (16:48):
Yeah? Man, I uh what, I don't know what, like
what Marina's got to be having a time with that
because I just don't know what to think of Connecticut
right now.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Connecticut is a hodgepodge of players right now.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
I mean it's a basketball team. I think, like, obviously
I don't want to be unfair, like there's a lot
more to figure out. Yeah, but yeah, it's in a
rough spot. I guess we I mean we can transition
to talking about Theolisa Thomas trade, but like, yeah, man,
I it's tough because on one hand, like I want

(17:23):
to be completely fair and say like this is very
like I think it goes with like I think there's
just a general idea from fans like, oh, coring means
you have like full control. No, you get the right
to refuse as a player, so you get to choose
where you go. Essentially, you know you can you can
disavow any trade that you don't like, which I love
that the players you have that aspect of control. But

(17:43):
like when you look at what came back from Phoenix.
I'm just looking at this, like, what else were you
expecting to come back? To a degree, I will say
it is kind of wild this that's definitely not what
I expected to come back. I probably would have just
I don't want to say I wouldn't have taken players
like you have to have something come back. But that's
the difficulty of this trade happening and the way of

(18:04):
kind of everything playing out, getting a first round pick
that is pretty unlikely to wind up a starter in
the league with Natasha Cloud, who I think it's safe
to say, is not exactly going to be thrilled to
be in Connecticut if screenshots of like tweets is telling
us anything. And I think beck Allen's a really good player,

(18:24):
but she also pointed like she didn't want to be
in Connecticut, like that's why they traded her. She was
a useful part of their team in twenty twenty three,
but she didn't want to be in Connecticut anymore, which
is why she got signed and traded to Phoenix. So
I just don't know what you do with all this,
And obviously, like it goes without saying that that's not
even close to the level of return you would like

(18:47):
to see for Alyssa Thomas. I just don't, especially.

Speaker 2 (18:53):
Coming off of what Kelsey Plumb got Sorry to keep going.
I felt like it was going to be a market
reset and it just absolutely wasn't.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Yeah, deal exactly like I think it's. I mean, based
on on all messaging, I think that the Sun want
to be competitive this next year, But I also think
like that's just a really difficult spot to be in
with what I think this group is actually going to
be and considering I think every team except for the
Mystics wants to compete this year. Like I just I

(19:23):
don't know what this is going to actually look like.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, And I also think, in fairness to them, that
could be because they are still very much in the
messy middle of figuring out who exactly they are going
to be. Because I wouldn't be surprised if any of
the players that we saw come back in the trade
are flipped again. Like I think about Rebecca Allen. Honestly,

(19:47):
one place I would love to see Rebecca Allen go
And I'm not as I'm curious what you think you know,
the price for her would be. I think I think
she's a Minnesota Lynx to me, she would be so
good Minnesota and that like it. And I think Minnesota
has an interesting quandary where I've talked about them on
the pods as almost being like a Ferrari, where they

(20:09):
are this high powered offense, but as a result of
you know, the specificity of what you need with them,
you can't just like throw anybody in there. Like we
kind of saw that with Maysha Heinz Allen, where because
of her inability to space the floor and she was
just kind of slept slower than everybody else in the court,
she just really wasn't a fit. And I just don't

(20:30):
think that's an issue with Rebecca Allen. I think, if anything,
what her skill set is, what her ages, what I
imagine her goals are in the league, and probably what
she wants out of a you know, out of an
organization in terms of professionalism. I just think it could
be a really good fit there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Actually I'm interested by that, especially to you because like
the hard part, like you said, with Minnesota, I'm like,
I don't think they need to trade for I mean
it's not even they they don't need to trade for
a starter. I think just like having another player that
you could pull and play. I'm interested in that. I
think it would definitely depend like what are you giving up?
But at the same okay, like are you trading Diamond

(21:07):
Miller for for for beck Allen or something like that,
because like you.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Say that, I wouldn't mind. Like you know, if you're
the Connecticut Son and you are, I think you should
be rebuilding in my opinion, I agree, trust that's a
great player to take a flyer on.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, so I'll be interested to see what happens with
that because I agree. I think, like I don't want
to be fully unfair to Connecticut it until we see
just how everything else plays out. Because I think on
the aspect of like you get players back, I think
like Tash is a I mean speaking on Natasha Cloud,
absolutely a player that that people should be looking at
comp any team. Yeah, like I think, I mean, you

(21:44):
could look at New York wanting to try and get her.
I think personally though, where I'm at with New York,
I feel like I'm just the point of like Sabrina
at the one, like she showed she could do it
last year. They value length and versatility on the wing.
Like I'd rather see that probably or I'd imagine that's
what they want to do. But still, like, I think

(22:04):
you could see Tash making a lot of sense in
a lot of different places.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
Yeah, and I'm curious with her, Like, let's say it
was New York, would she I mean, look, this is
Naasasha Cloud we're talking about, So if she doesn't have
an appetite for this, I would completely understand it. But
would she have an appetite for coming off the bench
if it was going to be for a team like
New York that you know had once they put Feebitch
in the starting lineup, they were the best starting lineup

(22:28):
in the WNBA. So you could you can justify it
to her in that sense and say, hey, you're still
going to play a lot of minutes. We just lost
Courtney van der Slut. Sabrina is our point guard of
the future. But at the same time, she's somebody who
also can play off the ball. We have a very
very versatile team. Everybody can everybody can play on and
off the ball on that team. So just because you're

(22:51):
coming off the bench doesn't mean you won't necessarily be
getting a lot of minutes. And then there's also a
matter of you know if they do decide to go
that direction, if you know, what does what do you
want if you're Connecticut in that situation.

Speaker 1 (23:02):
Yeah, that's a great question because like I think, I'm
just I was telling this to somebody the other and
I'm like, I'm I wouldn't trade Lao for anything for
the most part, like unless like, cool, here's.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
The numbal, she's like your skeleton key.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
Well, like, especially with the dollar amount she's on right now,
No way, Like, I just don't think there's any real
way that I'm partying with that, because every trade package
I see with New York is, oh, they're gonna trade
like here's a Leo FEI You're like, no, like.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
No way, she's her andoree I guidala, like you do
not trade her for anything, but especially because she's going
to be so much more valuable to what you need
as a championship contender than she would anywhere else. Not
to say that she can't do other things, which she
obviously can't. I think the beauty of Leo is that
if you did put her in a position where she

(23:51):
like had like let's say, higher usage, more responsibilities, actually
think she would thrive and if she wants that at
some point in her career. That's that's a different deal, right,
But like you don't just throw her into a deal
just to get more star power. That's not the point,
Like that's not what you.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
Need, no, exactly, And that's the fun part too, because
like obviously fun for me to think through, probably not
for not for like New York to think about. But like,
let's put it like this, with one year left, obviously
they they want to go. The goal is to win
a second title, right, But also I think they're just
uniquely positioned because of how well they've drafted and build
things up that if it hits twenty twenty six and

(24:29):
let's say Stue wants to go somewhere else and JJ
wants to go somewhere else, it's like we can like
I think they're in a unique position where they can
pivot again into like being a young team with interesting
talent and going from there. But like, again, it just
I mean it speaks to the flexibility that they have.
Excuse me, but uh, yeah, Sorr, I was sidetracked on that,
but I think, yeah, it's it's interesting because like, similarly

(24:52):
to the Minnesota, it's like how much do you want
to tinker and toy with things. How much do you
want to mess with something that just won? Like, obviously,
I think you still need to Like there's probably gonna
be room where they have to make adaptations. But yeah,
before we get even too much further, Oh, sorry ahead.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Just one last like attach a cloud destination potentially how
about Seattle?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
See I'm interested. My thing is like if you add
tahed there obviously contributes immensely to the defense to being
able to create stuff, But my thing would be more like,
how do you not end up with the exact same
problem this team had last year where they finished twelfth.
They finished twelfth in the w and shooting twenty eight

(25:33):
point eight percent from three didn't get up a lot
of attempts. It's just I don't know, Like I think
there's a world where you can like grit and grind
your teeth to victories, but it's just harder, you know. Yeah,
I mean look at the Sun, and I think the
sun are a more we're a more talented version of that,
And it's like, that's just tough. I could it depends

(25:55):
like what do you put around that too? But I
still just think in general it's tough yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Part of this for me, like part of the reason
I'm asking this question too, is I am actually just
kind of struggling to find the Tasha cloud destinations if
we're being I think the Chicago sky or maybe another
interesting one. They could certainly use a little bit more
creation in their court, and I think should be a
really great vet And it works they did. But I mean,

(26:23):
like we're getting you know, Suit's getting up there playing
she just want to play thirty five minutes a game.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
You know, probably not probably should be playing thirty five minutes.
Well okay, so I can't say shouldn't be playing thirty
five minutes a game, but like you get my point. Yeah, yeah, man,
it's interesting. What about partners. I don't know what Dallas
looks like, who knows what, but yeah, exactly, I think,

(26:49):
I mean it's a good point. It's it's in a
tough spot with that. Well let's talk about Athe to
Phoenix though, because this I am like really interested in.
You know me, I think you and I are two
of like the more like at truthers for what she
can like actually do on the court. I just think
for where the game's at versatility wise, on both sides,

(27:11):
of the ball. Like, I get that she can't shoot,
but that's not the point. Like I think you pair
her like obviously noting Phoenix has like what three players
under roster for next year, Sophie's deals even guaranteed. I
think the idea, yeah, I TVD. I think the idea

(27:33):
of like Alyssa Thomas with Cleia Copper's movement and shooting ability,
which she played off very similar stuff in Chicago, and
then surrounding that with shooting. Obviously you have to do
a really good job of filling that out, like what
does that look like? But to me, I think there's
a chance where they could like really just nail this

(27:53):
and hit it out of the park in terms of
kind of figuring that aspect out and making this like
I mean, you just think about like what they were
trying to do last year. I think that there were
ways that it could have obviously been better. I think
a lot of its depth in my opinion, but like
just it obviously didn't click at the highest level. But
I think this, I'd imagine this team's gonna better defensively,

(28:14):
has there's more room to play within the principles that
I think they wanted to do and still last year,
and yeah, I'm excited, Like obviously we need to see
a lot more still, but there's a lot of room
to be fun here.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
So are you willing to talk about this team under
the assumption that Dewana Bonner is a Phoenix Mercury or
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
Sure yet, because like I think about it, because like
I did a did a story with AT and d
V last year just on their relationship.

Speaker 2 (28:41):
And.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I mean, dB like almost signed in Seattle last year,
like she she thought about leaving, So I don't I
don't want to, like I don't know that I know
where she would consider going right now, but like I
don't think that it's like fully just straight up that
she's going to go to Phoenix. I think you could
buy it in building, and I agree with everything you
said on your pot about like what she could do

(29:03):
and fit in there. But I don't want to just
like penit in yet, Like I think it's definitely possible,
and I could see you're wanting to finish your career
where she's starting to. Like that makes a lot of
sense to me, but I'll just be like there's also
just kind of an element of like, well, how do
we make this not Connecticut. You know, obviously it's different
because cause there, and like I like, there's definitely a
lot of ways that it will be different.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
But yeah, the not Connecticut aspect of this is interesting
to me. And it might be me being a newer
fan and not having this experience of watching them constantly
flame out. I've only really had a close up experience
of watching them lose once. So if you're a longtime
w fan and like you disagree with this, like definitely

(29:45):
take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. But
Connecticut's biggest problem was that they didn't have enough shooting.
But this was a modern WNBA team. Because it was
a modern WNBA D they pushed the Minnesota Links, who
should have been the champions, I think harder than New

(30:07):
York pushed them. Now New York could score, so that's
why they won the series. But I think defensively speaking,
you had Alyssa Thomas when she played the five. That
was when Connecticut was at their best in that series,
and I think if they had done that from Jump Street,

(30:29):
maybe we're having a completely different conversation about who then
who the Connecticut son are and what they can do.
So I think just on the idea of like you
don't want to rebuild the Connecticut Son, sure, but I
think that there's a lot of really interesting things that
they did that are going to be very good going
forward with what the WNBA is becoming. Starting with Alyssa

(30:51):
Thomas being at the five, and we can put it
in fantasyland right now, but the possibility of the one
of Bonner be at the four, two very switchable players.
Then you have Khalia Kopper who has a lot of
size at the guard position as well, so you can
play a really modern style of defense with the three

(31:15):
that you have there. And and Ti Harris, who I
think is just like is kind of being talked about
like a throw in in this deal, but I think
it's just an incredible player who is also only getting
better and also fits into what you want in terms
of being really defensively versatile while also being a shooter. Now,
she might not be like one to five switchy versatile,

(31:37):
but there's definitely a lot of matchups that you can
still switch with Ty Harris on the court, So you
have a core there potentially if Bonner comes along that
is really really versatile that can shoot as well, and
that was sort of the key with the Connecticut Son.
They just didn't have the firepower. Now they're going to

(31:59):
have the fire power they're gonna have in Kalia Copper,
like one of the best, maybe the best clutch player
in the w NBA last season. So I think we're
just like it's almost like the Connecticut Sun, but a
version of them that is, you know, just doesn't have
the same flaws that always sort of you know and
ended up being there undoing as well. Now, if you

(32:21):
want to get I talked about this a little bit
on the plot as well, if you want to get
a little bit crazy here, you can. If we don't
know what the Diana Trossi is gonna do yet, But
because of how much contract flexibility that they have, they
are actually a pretty like I think I think they're

(32:44):
I think Satusabi makes a lot of sense there, and
she's meeting she has met with them or is meeting
with them as well.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
The biggest thing with that is they're gonna they would
have to like probably give up their twenty twenty seven
number one pick. But when you talk about the ages
on this team, like if you're if you're Dallas, especially
twenty twenty seven.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
That is a raft.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yeah, that's a great asset to have if the Mercury
are willing to give it up. Now, I don't know
if I would. I don't know if I want to
like just like put my entire future into this particular team.
But if you are, that'd be a hell of a
starting lineup with basically you have shooters surrounding Melyssa Thomas,
who is one of the best rible Hindoff players, one

(33:22):
of the best playmakers, great a pushing a transition. I
just I think I'm really really excited about what they
could be.

Speaker 1 (33:29):
Yeah. No, so I'll be honest, I was intentionally playing
Devil's Advocate because somebody did that's me yesterday when I
was getting excited about it too. Yeah, I agree. I
think I just look at the Connecticut team so much
as like exactly what you said, I mean, so much
of by the time you hit game three in that series,
it's like they're running a snub pick and roll with

(33:49):
VB setting a cross screen for at getting downhill because
they have so much issues spacing the floor. Once you
get that heavily scouted and it's all kyp stuff. And
I think if you can actually build lineups where you
have to worry about everybody on the floor and there's
just a lot more juice there offensively around it. Like, yeah, man,
that's completely different. I think I'll be interested to see

(34:13):
like how teams do try and handle how how Phoenix
tries to handle building the rest of the front courtot too,
because I do think like I would love to see
them have like one option in the post you can
go to, not as like a score per se, but
just like somebody who's there to like the uh to
be not like your quote unquote shack stopper, but like
having somebody who like can provide some most minutes to

(34:36):
just give you some flexibility because.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
You do want it. That was kind of like Minnesota's
I'm doing in a way of just like they didn't
have that one player for John Quarl Jones.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yeah, for sure, dor could try her best and then yeah,
but there's there's just a lot to be interesting with.
And I will say, like point blank, I would not
give up my twenty twenty seven pick. I don't know.
I don't think I could think. I don't think of
the rest of myself to do it.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
That's completely but we're talking about Matt Hubia year.

Speaker 1 (35:03):
Yeah, No, that's a fair point. It's a fair point.
I think that would move that I mean, I will
say getting a twenty twenty seven pick would move me
more as Dallas than pretty much anything else, because like,
there's there's more security in having a pick, and well
is I guess that's the hard part. Do you know
that you're going to be there in twenty twenty seven
is the hard part. But like having the potential to

(35:25):
just given how like quickly things can turn over sometimes,
but like having the potential to be there for twenty
twenty seven, there's more security in that pick than like
trading for another player in a one year deal.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
So or any of these twenty twenty five picks which
I've been wanting to ask you about. Yeah, like just
I feel it feels like one of the plot lines
coming out of free agency and the Kelsey Plum deal
and the Spark's justification for giving up their number number
two pick was reported by Alexa Philippo that they weren't
entirely sure who was actually going to be available because

(35:58):
of you know, I think because Dallas as the number
one pick and Paige Becker's team has basically through every
possible conduit, been saying she does not want to go
to Dallas. But then you add the extra wrinkle of
the twenty twenty six CBA coming up and these players
that are in college right now that could go back

(36:19):
kind of realizing, oh, I might not want to sign
like a rookie contract deal that has me locked up
for what is going to be the most lucrative period
in WNBA history thus far. So I'm curious as like
the draft person, is your draft ward changing, is your
evaluation of let's say, yeah, let's if you're Dallas and
you're you know, in these conversations with New York about

(36:42):
like their number seventh pick right and and in Indiana
about their number eight pick, are you looking at that
and being like, Okay, well, because of the players that
might because Page is in that situation, but so is
o Libya Myles, Libya Miles could go back to college.
Warriy Harmon probably will go back to college. Azy Fudd
is one who I think is interesting because of how
good of a season she's having and how healthy she

(37:02):
is that you're like, okay, maybe she might be one
of the players that does declare in this draft. This
draft is just starting to look like it might not
be as good as we thought it would be, maybe
even as early as a month ago, because I don't know,
I wasn't making those considerations. Maybe you were, but I'm

(37:22):
just kind of curious your perspective on the draft overall,
since all this stuff is shaken out, and like, how
you would approach it as a team. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
No, it's a good question and something I've thought about
a lot. I think the way I'll look at it
is this number one, there are just some players that
I value that a lot of other people publicly just
seem not to value as much. And I get that,
but I also just think in general, like the league
is changing, Like it is not a league where you
are going to have a quote unquote traditional point guard

(37:52):
running up starting a set and throwing it into the post.
Like we're still going to have post players, So you
still need trustworthy facilitators, but you need to have a
balance floor, you need to not get killed on defense,
and you need to have versatility. And any team that's
not building like that is making mistake. And I think,
like point blank, like any team that's not building that
direction is making mistake. So to me, I look at

(38:15):
this class. I think there's like probably five or six
players I feel incredibly good about that. I will say,
certainly are like going to be rotation players in the
W with upward movement to be you know, like a
star potentially. And then I look around, Wait, who are
those players? Okay, So I would say the players that

(38:36):
I like feel for sure, for sure good about the
given top five. So like if let's say Page Page
is obviously there, Kiki, I feel incredibly good about Kiki.
I feel like Keky has somehow flown under the radar.
We can talk about her more in a second. I'm
just a huge believer in Dominique Malanga. I think anyone
who isn't I don't understand. Just again, giving where the

(38:58):
game's going, I think if you're looking back ten years ago,
fine I understand. But like no Sony citron Uh and
Sannaia Rivers. I think Sanaia Rivers is incredibly good, and
I think somebody who continues to go underrated underrated maybe
is the wrong. She was part of the Final fourteen
last year. She's been a high value player that people

(39:22):
have known about. But like, I just don't think people understand.
Sometimes I don't. I'm not trying to sound ASANAI, but like,
I don't think people fully understand what translates to the
W sometimes, but like what matters in the W. I
should say there are things that translate, but I think
we can quibble about how much they actually matter in
terms of impact. Sannaia is going to walk in as
one of the three or four best athletes in the

(39:45):
in basketball, Like she is that level of athlete. She
has a defensive baseline that is incredibly high, continues to
get better as a player, can create her own shot, Like,
I don't think she should come in and be a
wing in the league, Like I want to put the
ball in her hands. That's where I see the most value.
She's six foot one uh long, has one of the
best first steps that you're gonna see of a player

(40:06):
her size. Has improved as a shooter both outside the
arc and and as a pull up player. Like there's
room to keep getting better. But like I think so
many of the things that you quote unquote have questions
with or don't see whether there's because of what I mean,
it's college like things look a little bit different. It's
not that I think sometimes people can make too much
out of like spacing in the W or spacing in

(40:29):
pro basketball is going to be better. But it is
very true in this case in my opinion, Like and
I just think again, like there's a lot there for
her that I'm very excited about that I think has
the potential to be pretty special at the next level.
So I did I get the six. I think that
was five. It's five or six. But then you go

(40:51):
from there and I think there, I mean, there are
really good bets moving off of those those those top five.
I feel like, so I hobnuld say, I feel like
great about five players. I feel I have a lot
more questions once you go from there to about the
middle of the second round. So there's like depth here,
but to me, it's more like are team's going to
be focused on actually prioritizing him in this way? So

(41:12):
like a player like Serenus on Dell at Kansas State
is really interesting to me, like six to two long
guard has really good vision, but it is like very
tyrese Halburton ish and probably not quite as pro ready
as he was. I won't even say not pro ready,
but like I think there are some more questions about
like what does it look like when you put the

(41:33):
ball in her hands full time? Because to me, again,
like I think people look at the like put her
on the wing, and I'm like, no, stop. The most
exciting part of a player with six to two that's
six one six two that can lead the country assist
is quick, quick, quick decisions floor vision, like being able
to duce things in transition. Like, but you need time

(41:55):
to develop some of that stuff out. So I think,
to me, it's like, Okay, well, who where is she going?
Makes an impact? Same thing with Georgia Amore, Like I
love George Aymore. I think she's gotten quite a bit
better as a player this year, but then a lot
of the same questions keep coming up, like it's just
hard when you're five to six.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah, she's got to go to that dog class that
Kelsey she did, she.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
Was there, Yeah she did. I think she'll be back
for a second round. But like I think it's more too,
Like again, I can see ways where like she just
makes a ton of sense, but like I just think
you need such a specific team build to build around that,
And like I don't think you can just draft George
Amore to be back up in my opinion. I think
you are drafting George Aymore because you believe in her

(42:38):
being a starter, and you're building around that because I
think it's just it's too easy for a coach to
like look at a player who excels in some of
these ways and being like, well, that doesn't you know,
I don't feel like building around that, or it's easier
for me to like trust this player who has to
do who can do less?

Speaker 2 (42:55):
You know, you have to have a vision with certain players.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
Yeah, but then sorry, I'm like going on the right question.
But but there are some players who I think, like again,
just are being undervalued that could be really good in
more of a supplementary spot and like maybe upward room
from there. Like for me, Madison Scotta ole Miss is
a player that I am like, I love her game,

(43:20):
can legit switch one through five at like big, can handle,
can make decisions with the ball in her hands. I
think that they do a great job being competitive in
the SEC. It all miss, But like in terms of
like what it will actually look like at the next
level offense wise, it's different, Like that's that's just again college.
But like to me, I think she's the player she's

(43:41):
shown all the touch indicators to be able to like
be a three point shoot. I think it's just about
being in a place that prioritizes that even more, but
can create her own shot, like that can drive and
do all these things. Like that's the kind of player again,
Like she could come in and play minutes right away.
That's to me, that's what I really want Indiana to take,
Like they need to win. Who can be switchable, who

(44:02):
can just open things up, who obviously has room to
keep growing. But like her, I think when you're getting
a little bit further down, I really like Tamayra Poindexter
out of Kansas State as well. She's probably a little
bit more raw on defense, like has a lot of
really great tools. I think it's more about like this
is her first year playing, is like kind of a
three and D player, but she shoots almost forty percent

(44:23):
on seven attempts per game from deep, has more stuff
to tap into her bag as a as somebody who
can create a little bit too. But like those are
the kind of players I want to see people swinging
on Like yeah, we don't need to see like I don't.
I don't want to say don't, Like that's unfair, But like,
I just think when you are looking at these things,
to me, like you should be taking players that can

(44:45):
really fit into the game that you can you can
see a role for them, and you also see like
there's there's a way that could come in and play
right away make an impact, but also there's room for
them to keep growing and just like being built into
a core that you have already, Like that's what matters
to me.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it sounds like from your perspective,
like if you were one of these teams and let's
say you did have like a mid first round pick,
you wouldn't necessarily be too too worried about what the
ramifications could be of players going back. But then if
you are drafting in that like number two range, like
like like let's say you're Seattle right now and you

(45:21):
just got the number two pick, you might be a
little bit confused about how to value that pick. Or
teams that are training with you, they might be a
little bit confused about how to value that pick. Is
it going to be a Sonya sitch On who I
love and you love as well, But that's that's a
different player, that's a different prospect than like an Olivia miles. Yeah,

(45:42):
and that to me is super interesting.

Speaker 1 (45:47):
Yeah, it's tough because, like you said, I think, and
this is this is not just me trying to like
put frustrations out on people, but like I just don't
like projecting out players who aren't seniors, who aren't automatically eligible,
because number one, like I just don't think like, let's
let's take no exactly. But here's my point. Let's take
what we've just talked about for an out for the

(46:08):
last hour. Does it seem like there's a lot of
stability in the WNBA exactly, So why would I be
telling somebody who is not a senior who has to
go to leave like I think It's like I like,
obviously I can project those out and say these things
like I think Olivia, that's who I would probably take
it to, to be honest, if I'm Seattle right now.

(46:31):
But at the same time, like you're saying, like, I
think Olivia is in an interesting spot where and I
don't want to speak for her or sound like that
at all. It's more just like, and this is more
thinking on It's not how I think, but I know
that people in front officers do think this stuff. I
think Olivia has made very clear progress that you can
all point to on film of her ability as a shooter.

(46:53):
But let's say she shoots thirty five percent from three
next year instead of this, just because like the ball
bounces a little bit differently. What if that happens, how
does that look? And I can say thirty fives a
w I agree, But here's but my points are, okay,
like what if there's just anything that can be it's
thirty like or anything or anything that gets viewed as
like quote unquote regression, even if it's not made regression.

(47:17):
If it's just something that puts a question in people's minds,
I think that's difficult, Like how do you kind of
work around that quandary in some way? It's like and
to me, like again it's.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
A big question, was there. It's a newly improved skill. Yeah,
not everybody is scouted for it yet, and she's kind
of on a generational heater when it comes to it.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
So I when she's shooting almost fifty percent three, it's insane.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah, after not being a shooter. So it's like completely
and on spot up, on pull ups, on everything. So
you could either take that the versatility of her shot
profile and say, oh my gosh, like yes, like this
is a sure thing. She is improved by tape, by numbers.
You could also look at all of that and say, well,
there's no there isn't a lot of history of players

(47:58):
making this type of leap this quickly. It's hard.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Well here's here's what I'll point out too. So like
Georgia Aymore, who I love, I thought she I would
have taken her with uh way or whatever, thinking.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Her last year, how's her? How's her pull up?

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Her pull up really good? So here's exactly let's talk
about that. Because we have four years of film of
Georgia Amore being an absolutely unguardable shooter off movement, pulling up,
shooting like fifty percent off the catch. And I can
point to this year saying from talking to her at
the beginning of the year, she was like very clear,
like I need to work on my mid range game.

(48:36):
I need to work in my pacing, being able to
actually create inside the art and being more patient. She's
done that this year. She's been so good with that
stuff and being more comfortable doing that, like really learning
to be more of a point guard. Like she's had
the point guard speed, the ability to create advantages, but
like learning the in and outs of actually being a
point guard. I think there's this idea that like all

(48:56):
of Virginia Tech just moved with Kenny to Lexington. It
was Georgia Aymore and Clarastrack and that was it. That's
all that came from Virginia Tech. So she's working with
a lot of different stuff. It's a completely it's the
same offense, but it's completely different pieces. You're going from
playing with her best friend who they had played together
for four years. You know, you have a different synergy

(49:19):
and like so again she's ticked quite back quite a
bit back up during SEC play. But like people are
questioning in non conference like, ohs, she's gonna get drafted
in the first round this year. This is not like
you can you can point and see, like look at
these areas where she has really bring and made improvements.
But again it's all about Okay, Well, if somebody has
the question in their head and then they start second

(49:41):
guessing it a little bit, that changes things. And again
like I'm saying, I don't I personally don't think it
should but like it like there are aspects where it
matters for sure, But like, I don't think Georgia Aymore
just suddenly forgot how to shoot. I just think this
is a completely different roster, new team, learning a ton
of different things, like it takes time, and.

Speaker 2 (50:00):
Also development isn't linear too, Like she is focusing on
different parts of her game right now that you know,
you kind of hope will all coalesce into making into
making her into a better all around player. And it's
actually something of it's a conversation I've had with you
about Sonya Citron, who you know, has such a high
baseline that I don't really have like too many big,
big questions about her. But when I try to think

(50:22):
about her potential for the future, I just I look
at some of the one on one creation and the
turnovers that come out of that, and the sort of
question you have to ask yourself, which is is why
this stuff is so hard? It's kind of unanswerable until
you know, marsh April, is that a growing pain or
is that like a limitation? You know, is it something

(50:45):
that she has to just go through the pain of
this right now? Even if it does sort of, you know,
make you a little bit nervous and doesn't necessarily look
on the best. I can't remember what game I was
texting you during this, and no one was the UNC game. Yeah,
the UNC game where it's it felt like every time
she had the ball in her hands and she was
trying to create something, it just looked really really ugly,

(51:08):
and it was. It was one of her worst turnover
games too, So I'm cherry picking a little bit, but
it does sort of bring up that question of like, Okay,
she three and D or she three in D plus
and that I mean, if she's three in D plus
and she could eventually like carve out a role as
like a genuine you know, creator on ball threat in

(51:28):
this league, then I think about her a little bit
differently than I do right now. And I don't have
the answer to that question right now, but you do
have to take that into account, and then you can't
even have to take it into account when you think
about like her other skills as well, like the three
point shooting has been basically like just at thirty six

(51:49):
for two years now, which is honestly like for somebody
who plays alongside Hannah and Olivia is not what you want,
or you know, somebody who one of the biggest skills
projected out to be shooting. But it is like one
of those things where you have you have to take
so much more into account than just like straight up

(52:11):
looking at it like, oh, this is a thirty six
percent shooter.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah, no exactly. I mean, like I think, just like
looking at it with Sony, this year has been interesting
because last year, you have she came off a knee
injury early on in the year, had some growing pains
coming back, and then it was like, oh, hey, we
need you to be our second ball handler because that's
just where we're at right now. And then this year
you've seen it's been interesting because every year she has

(52:35):
to kind of take on a different role. That's part
of the difficulty of being a wing right and this
year like it's okay, well, now you have to fit
alongside two incredibly good, high volume usage guards, Like how
does that look? How does that project? And I think,
to me when I watch a lot of her stuff,
like I think there are some things with her handle
that I'd love to see improve and get better, but

(52:57):
it's more like it's a lot of just like Russian
stuff that I think is partially like not that like
I think Princeton is awesome. I love their offense, but
so much of it is you see her looking to
make a read instead of looking to make a play,
And like, I think there are those things to me,
I feel like are actually teachable. And it's similar to
me with like I don't want to say with the
same player, but Neil Ivey always talks about how she

(53:19):
reminds her of Jackie Young. I think there's similarity in
that in that Jackie was always like a player who
would think too much, we would like she was. I'll
say point like, I think Jackie was a college player
who probably projected out to be better obviously, I mean
she went number one, there was a reason for that.
But like Jackie was again like a player who she

(53:40):
would hesitate to shoot. She wasn't. She was always looking
to pass more like I think finding that balance is
not always easy when you're in a role where it
changes so much. But yeah, I mean, like you said,
I think there's so much to think about with it,
and it all is just dependent on things and where
you're at, but especially in a league where you just

(54:01):
have to be able to make an impact right away,
like I was again, I was talking about with somebody
the other day. But how many true three and D
players are there in the right Yeah, like none, Like
we do not. It's not an architype that exists. There's
like you could say, like Bridget Carlton, but even then,
like Bridget just became a good defender for the first
time in her career.

Speaker 2 (54:23):
And I think probably, but she's she's a five like
through three and D five is pretty well.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's value. Yeah, no, absolutely, but
I mean like, actually you mean like a winning archetype. Yeah,
there's just like we don't either you're a star or
fighting to be on a roster on the wing for
the most part. So yeah, I think that's part of
what makes me high on her for sure. And I
can end appearing wrong, but I just feel good about it.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Shoot, should we should we talk about the other number
one pick from the Aces? I feel like, yeah, that
didn't make it. I didn't give you any chance to
like actually talk about Yeah, people want.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
To hear, hey we have all guns blazing. Uh yeah, obviously,
Kelsey Plumb is now Los Angeles spark uh. Juwel Lloyd
is with the last Vegas Aces and the aforementioned number
two pick is with Seattle as well as some other picks,
but we don't have to get into those right now.
I'm really fascinated about this with l A, and we'll

(55:24):
obviously I want to talk about Vegas as well. I
think Vegas everybody kind of knew to a degree that
this was happening like this. I think any report, any
copspile from shot out sometimes report over a month ago,
this was what was, you know, obviously the preferred destination
with Kelsey. I think it's interesting. The first thing I
want to say, like, I understand people coming from the

(55:46):
angle of like, ah, well, why would you you know,
mess up with your timeline and this and that, and
like I just I don't know why it has continued
to go under the radar, but it was made very
clear by ownership after the season. Adria Johnson had a
direct quote, I believe it was in the La Times
that it was unacceptable that the team was not winning,

(56:06):
which is hilarious considering he's been on the advisory board
as an owner for like a decade.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
But what do I know? I will I will say
to give him credit. He did say, hey, I haven't
been involved enough.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah exactly. But I'm like Okay, Well it's the Eric
Andre beb of like you know, like when you like quarterback, like,
how could they do this? I'm like, well, I wonder
that's so it's interesting with that. But let's put it
like this. You get two phenomenal talents who have real
star potential in Rakia and Cam in this last draft,

(56:41):
and obviously I would I mean I'd love to pair
the number two pick with them and see what that
looks like. Obviously you can make the like like wasn't
released through ESPN uncertainty of what was going to be
there at the number two pick, and I will say too, like.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
Yeah, I guess we have been talking about the Kelsey
putrade the entire time.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, I mean, like there is quote unquote uncertainty. I
still think it's just tougher, but I just I want
to remind people, like I don't really think there was
much option here, like again, like this was either your
parting with the number two pick to make the Kelsey
Plumb trade happen or the Kelsey Plump trade is not happening.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, I think I would have walked away.

Speaker 1 (57:17):
Oh really well okay, but here's the tough party. And
because like I mean they need to make the playoffs
this year? What ownership?

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Because Magic Johnson said.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
So, yeah, like I'm being serious, Man, that's bad like.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
That, But that's that's that's when you get into bad ownership,
that long term strategy.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
I don't I don't disagree with you to a degree.
But here's the part where I do think it's interesting because,
like I think, obviously, trying to thread that needle is difficult,
like we've seen teams have trouble doing that. But I
think it's an interesting time for this group where like,
of course I don't want to give up the number
two pick. I think you never the allarreance of potential

(57:59):
is all is more sexy than what's right in front
of you in a lot of ways, I think, I mean, we.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
See that in that it's not instant gratification.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Also not okay, all right, listen, okay when you put
it that way too. Yeah, but here's the way I'll
put it. This is like the best free agent signing.
And Kelsey is like indicated, obviously you can't take it
for faith until it happens.

Speaker 2 (58:24):
You know, I'm belieure, but you feel good that she
says that she.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Will exactly like says she wants to be back. That matters,
Like having having a free agent want to come there matters.
I think I look at it this way too now
that like it's very clear that there's it seems that
there's at least more ownership buy in to continue to
build this place out. That matters. Okay, you have, you
have a star free agent coming, you have an indication
that that people are looking at you differently, and you

(58:48):
have ways that you can kind of build this out.
And I'm not saying again not saying it's perfect, not
saying it's what I would do, but you look at
it from that aspect, I'm like, Okay, can we thread
this needle because we have this young talent we have Kelsey.
Now I think that there's a like I view this
team as like very much a different spot, like being
able to be competitive this year. I think what they
do with the rest of free agency is gonna matter.

(59:11):
But I also pointed like this because to me, I
think the first thing I thought was like, Kelsey Plumb
is not a point guard, Like I don't know what
that looks like. But the more I thought about it,
like because then I see ideas of like, oh well,
are they going to go get another point guard to
play alongside Kelsey? And I think that's the worst thing
you could possibly do, because then you fall into some

(59:33):
of the exact issues that the ACE has just had,
where it's like we are way too small. We're getting
beaten up on defense because we just don't have enough
size on the court. Like watching them against Las Vegas,
I mean yeah against uh against New York, it was
very clear like they were too small in the back court.
And Kelsey is like not a great defender point Like
I think she can. She tries, there's there's effort there,

(59:55):
but like there's just difficulty even being five to eight.
But to me, like that's why it's excited. Okay, we
have Cambrink, who obviously depends when she comes back this
season as she rehabs from her knee injury, but has
potentially be a great defender. I think her Kia has
the potential to become a very good defender in time.
Showed growth over this last year. Is probably more just

(01:00:15):
a neutral to me in my opinion right now, But
I think again, like it's not perfect right now, but
I think you can see it becoming in a year
or two, Like and like what does Ray Morell look
like in time? Do you keep surrounding that with length
and more around that? And I'll get to the offensive
side in a second, but I'll let you go because

(01:00:36):
I feel like you want to say something. Keep well,
it's like on the offensive side though, I get the
idea like KP isn't a point guard. She is not
a true point guard. Don't get me wrong with that,
but like I think of it from this perspective. Number one,
awesome advantage creator, like she is so quick off the bounce,
awesome shooting. Gravity probably has I mean, I mean, shoot,

(01:00:58):
I think she shot eight threesper game last year. Obviously
had like a slight dip early on in the season
that that happened. She was still getting guarded like a
three point year though, So it doesn't matter, like obviously
you want to shot.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
You're yeah, you're never gravity wise, Like I'm not sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Yeah, here's my thing, Like part of why I'm really
interested is I think Lynn Roberts when I watch Utah
And I went back and was watching some stuff the
other day and just like diving into things. I think
so often people think of Utah just for shooting, and
I looked at Utah more as like, I thought Lynn
was really awesome at simplifying her offense for guard decision making,

(01:01:33):
because she had a really great podcast that she did,
so like she was at Utah for a minute and
then they hit a rough spot and she was like,
you know, how do we kind of fix things and
take this to a different level, And it was like
very cogrenittve like we are just not going to get
the same level of player as the rest of the
Pac twelve. And she rebuilt that offense to be strictly
around like efficiency, creating efficient looks and whatnot. And to me,

(01:01:58):
so much of what made that offense was like, yes,
the guards were good, but also efficient like versatile post players.
And to me, like Erica Hanby Cam has a ton
of potential as just a versatile playmaker, as Ray Stevens,
as somebody filling in probably as a starter to start
the year, and then as somebody off the bench after
has a lot of versatility. I thinks, also awesome, Yeah,

(01:02:22):
when you pair that that with a guard who maybe
isn't the most complex decision maker, like she's not Chelsea Gray, like,
no shit, but very few are very few have the
same kind of like playmaking as Caplin Clark and Chelsea
Gray that's just hard to find. But I think it's
also acknowledging, Like you look at again with Utah, like

(01:02:44):
they've been able to create some really high value assist
players who I wouldn't consider like preternatural playmakers. It's like,
right now, they have a player in this Viera who's
a solid passer but more of like first step blow
by speed, awesome getting downhill and creating from there. And
to me, I look at him two or three decisions exactly, Yeah,
and I'm like, obviously everything's not one to one taking

(01:03:06):
it from college to the pros, but I think there's
a real avenue where you really make this okay. Like
they're gonna have to figure some things out in the
half court for sure, but like when you talk early
offense playing in transition, I think this group could be
really fucking good on offense. Yeah, And I do think
like Kelsey deserves some more credit for what she can

(01:03:27):
do with the ball in her hands because number one,
like I just think about what their guard play was
last year. This is the worst offense in the league.
I don't think, like I don't put it on on
the coaching staff for last year because you look at
how their injuries were, Like they were the most injured
team in the league. They had the worst guard room
in the league last year because of injuries, and I
think even before injuries, it was right there. And again

(01:03:50):
you go from that to now we have an All
Star and like, that's not everything. But I do think
like I can see the recipe for how this stuff
works in kind of blending everything together, and I like,
again it's not perfect, but just noting like what some
of the parameters are, I can kind of I can
see the vision with it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:10):
Yeah, first of all, I think you made probably the
best case for why this is something that could work,
And my issues with it have nothing to do with
Kelsey Plum and the player that she is and the
player that she could become. Like I just think that
everything you said just hit the nail on the head

(01:04:30):
about her and then just knowing what we know about
her mentality wise, betting on Kelsey Plumb on and off
the court in your locker room is a good play
overall in general. Right, And I think this team is
gonna be fun. I think they're going to sell tickets.
I live in La. I am very excited to go
to Sparks games this year, far more excited from a clear,

(01:04:55):
a pure esthetic competitive standpoint than I would have been
before this trade went down. To me, Kelsey Plumb is
thirty years old, She's gonna be She's gonna be thirty
four or thirty five when you're the two pillars of
your franchise hit their prime. That to me is the
biggest problem. That's that's problem number one with all of this.

(01:05:17):
Problem number two to me is, look, we just had
this whole conversation about the number two pick the draft.
Like the only way to me that this makes sense
as like a long term franchise play that you're gonna
be like legitimately serious about building a team around Cameron
Brink and Rakia Jackson in a long term is if
the absolute worst case scenario of everything that we talked

(01:05:40):
about potentially happening happens, and even then you're gonna get
you would get like at least Sonya Citron in the draft.
Then if you had the patience to wait until twenty
twenty six, now you have three probable starters in your
lineup making ninety thousand dollars a year going into a

(01:06:00):
new CBA and you're still LA. Your your practice facility
by this time is probably at least we've got like
shovels in the dirt, which we don't yet. You could
really sell yourself in twenty twenty six as a destination
that has Cam, that has Rikia, that has number two

(01:06:21):
pick whoever that is. By the way, if it's Olivia Miles,
this is a fucking nightmare for LA in my opinion,
because you just said, how many passers are.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
There in the world that can do what cas of
Clark Nogre.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
It's the most important scale in basketball and the two
potential top picks in this draft habit so and you
also have you have you have two front court players
that would really benefit from all of that. So if
it's Olivia Miles, it's just a disaster to me. If
you could have taken her at Olivia at number two
and you didn't, so you could like make the playoffs

(01:06:55):
for a couple of years, Like that's just that's not
what you do. That's just not what you do, because like, Okay,
you're LA, and you have all of these big grand
ambitions and you want to be like a huge player,
and you can be a huge player in this new
era that is going to involve has already We've seen
this free agency involve so much player movement. You want
to take advantage of that. Twenty twenty six was your year,

(01:07:16):
Like that was the year to do it. That's the
year that everybody in the league is a free agent
and you're gonna have about more money to play with
while having like some really really promising players already on
your roster. I don't it's them in Chicago, And that's
why Chicago shouldn't do a damn thing with a number

(01:07:36):
three pick. I don't care because cost, Like, it's not
just about who's at that. It's cost controlled twenty twenty
five pick for the net through twenty twenty eight, So
you can really really build some stuff out in two
free agencies in a row if you just decide not
to do this. And I just I've gone back and
forth on it a lot. I wrote a column about it.

(01:07:58):
I think I was really fair played both sides on it,
and I've thought about it more and I'm just I'm
getting increasingly more anti as I just think about like
the long term ramifications of all of it.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
No, that's totally fair because honestly, like I think I
lean more towards your side. I just want to I
wanted to present the I think like just like I
just think people get like a little too binary with
like what positions are and what skill sets. Always Yeah, look.

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
This Kelsey Plumb is somebody who led Washington in an
assists in her last two years there, like she can
be you know, I don't worry about that. Sorry, keep on,
Yeah no, but.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
It's like I agree, Like I think from a pure perspective,
I think that's part part of the difficulty of having
a league this small, is that everybody feels like they
can be good or everybody can be talked into it,
you know, Like I think there was a case where
like it, let's say, if Washington hadn't made any moves,
like hadn't made any change and coaching, Like I think

(01:09:01):
they could have talked themselves and saying we're gonna be
a playoff team this year, Like we showed good stuff
towards the back end the last season. If we add
one for agent here, we are. Like that's the hard
part because I think in the NBA, like when you
have that many organizations and that's what's been so tough
for the play in too, because like when you add
in the plane, it's like, oh well, hey, now two
thirds of us could all like make something happen this year,

(01:09:22):
and everybody it's it's tough, And I think exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Look, I'm not totally against that line of thinking. Like
if you're the Atlanta Dream and you just got Britney
Grinder and you have this new coach and you have
like Ryan Howard and Alicia Gray, who you think are
gonna thrive under this new coach, I don't hate that. Yeah,
I don't think every franchise needs to think championship or bust. No, yeah,
you just made You just made like this big splash
in the La Times about how you're going to be

(01:09:47):
so different. You are the La Sparks, You have the
story history, you have all this potential, you have these
two players like you. You just I think your ambitions
have to be a little bit higher than what they
seem like they are. You have to honestly continue to
eat shit a little bit. This seemed like a trade
that they made so they could just get good and
don't have to eat shit as gets more popular. You

(01:10:11):
just you got you gotta aim little hair. You have
to you gotta be a little bit more greedy, and
you have to be a little bit patient sometimes to
be greedy.

Speaker 1 (01:10:19):
Yeah, I don't know, man, it's gonna be interesting to
see how everything plays out. Because to me, like again,
I don't want to make it like all one to one,
but it's it's very similar ish to like just talking
about Sacramento, like making the move that they did to
get Domas, Like to me, like it's in a similar light,
like I can understand and we can we can point
now and say like, Okay, this probably didn't work out,

(01:10:40):
but I think that's way.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
Fine because they got to light the beam for a
year and that was a franchise that never felt that
good in their life and they're Sacramento and they it's
okay for you to have different ambitions if you're a Sacramento.

Speaker 1 (01:10:50):
Yeah, no exactly. My points is more like I think
there is a way where I could see this like
really hitting because if you, let's say, if you if
you really make this hit within over, like you show
that growth over the next year and change, and then
it's like, hey, f reagents are interested in us, like
because let's say, here's the we have our practice facility.

(01:11:11):
We have this, people are coming to our games like this, Like,
I just think that in general, Like again I'm saying
like in a vacuum, it is not what I would
have done. I would have loved to just stay in
the course and continue to build, but it is.

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
I don't know. I get the vision, I get the
I get an understand why, and I think in terms
of like having a concrete plan, I at least understand that.
Do you want to talk about the ass side of
this briefly? Yeah, yeah, I think number one, Like, I

(01:11:50):
don't think Jewel has been a great defender the last
two years as she's taken on more scoring, but like
I think the separation between her and Kelsey is defenders
is pretty big. In my opinion, you still are going
to have us smaller ish backcourt, but I think on
that aspect, like you just, I think it makes it
a lot more possible for this team to go from
being an average defense to like being pretty good again. Obviously,

(01:12:12):
I want to see like how Jule is in this
new role, like kind of getting back to being a
second third player, But I think that's part of the
gamble of making this Like I think there's an interpretation
that like, you're gonna come here and yeah, you're not
going to lead us in shot attempts like we have
Asian Wilson arguably the best player in the league. Like
you're here to play off for gravity, make her life

(01:12:32):
easier and fit into what we can do. And I
think that there's a world where that works out incredibly well.
Where are you at with that?

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Oh, I think like there's just it just puts you
Alloyd in a position to do what she was designed
to do, which is just make buckets and make buckets
and make buckets, and probably a lot more efficient too,
just given there's going to be a lot more spacing
around her. Obviously, the situation in Seattle was just, you know,
something that seemed like mentally was not that great for

(01:13:01):
her as well. So just getting out of that, she's
been great and unrivaled. I'm I'm excited for Anna think
you know, she'll be able to kind of go back
to her defense being a little bit better too, without
having to tack on all of this high usage as well.
So I mean, anytime it's like you're gonna lose a
pillar of what won you a championship and you can

(01:13:22):
kind of like bring back not an exact carbon copy,
but somebody who can plug and play at that exact
same position.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
It's a w yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:29):
And then to actually get a pick on top of it,
that's that's something that I think, like probably like I
haven't been thinking about or talking about enough to to
like replenish the pick that you have to relinquish and
be able to get a player that is probably on
par or like better than Kelsey. I've been going back

(01:13:51):
and forth on this a lot, honestly because it kind
of depends on which Jewel Lloyd you get. But yeah,
I mean that's kind of where I'm at with it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Yeah, I think what will be most like just thinking
like tactically that I think is most interesting to me
is like as much as like I think jewels awesome.
But I think the biggest difference for me and what
it's gonna look like is like how they pressure the rim,
because like Chelsea is very much more like a you know,
I need to you know, death buy a thousand cuts

(01:14:21):
obviously has a ton of ability to manipulate things and
you know, puppet master her way to creating really good offense.
But I do think it'll be interesting to see how
they kind of create things without having Kelsey's first step,
because to me that was like a really important part
of their offense at times was like and well, especially

(01:14:42):
obviously her decision making could be erradic Like I think
just having that player who can be an instantaneous like
I'm getting to the paint, it's hard to replace that.
So I think it puts maybe like uh, stress would
be the wrong with put it, but like even more
emphasis on like Jackie to be able to do that stuff.
But yeah, I mean there's trade offs with everything. I

(01:15:04):
think it's just going to be interesting to see like
how it plays out for both of them. I don't
think that like like you said, I don't think that
either's like a quote unqute like demonstrably better or whatever player.
I think it's just depends on the situation.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's that's a good point about like
creating penetration the rim though, because that was kind of
a huge problem for the Aces outside of Asia, there
just wasn't a lot of pressure being put on the Rim,
and it feels like all of their like offensive issues
beyond kind of being scouted out at that point did
sort of filter out from there, and I thought it

(01:15:38):
was interesting. I think it's interesting that they're going after
Cheyenne Parker Dias and I think that the justification given
for that, that that she fits their style of play
is really interesting to me because.

Speaker 1 (01:15:51):
Because I don't agree with that at all, that she
fits their style.

Speaker 2 (01:15:54):
Of play, well, it's it speaks me to an evolution
maybe of how they're trying to play, and one that's
necessary because I don't think that you know it also, like,
let's be real, they probably just didn't get Britney Griner
and now they're pivoting. But throwing Britney Griner into that
starting lineup would have just mucked up the space in

(01:16:14):
my opinion, because she's not really the rent protector that
she used to be and I just don't worry about
that with Asia, But I think Taya's just brings a
little bit more spacing and a little bit more quickness
as well, where she might be able to alleviate some
of the things I just kind of be the things
that Kia Stokes wasn't maybe not from like the three

(01:16:36):
point line, but from like seventeen feet out, from fifteen
feet out that I just don't think like I think
that they were just missing that and maybe like you know,
it's it's like insurance in case like Liz Kitley can't
be that. But I honestly, I honestly liked hearing that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:56):
It's interesting. I don't know, you don't, yeah, I like yeah,
like I uh, like I think that there are worlds
where like obviously it's not all like just can you
chill SORRT my dog'sn freak out right now with Cheyenne,
like I think, I think Cheyenne is a talented player

(01:17:16):
who can make an impact. I just will be interested
to see because like, to me, what made the Aces
so tough at their best was like when ac was
playing at the four, like when they had somebody who
was smaller and like being able to not even smaller,
but like having the versatility where you had to guard everyone,
where everyone can pass, where everyone can make a decision.

(01:17:37):
And I don't think Shyanne fits into that, Like I
think that you can have like if she's there playing
like fifteen to twenty minutes a game in like a
spot start role or like playing off the bench as
like a backup that I see value in. But to me, like, yeah,
their best stuff is like how many fives can really
guard Age Wilson?

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Oh, I agree, I agree, and I yeah, I'm with.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
You, And it's just I just like I want to
see them. I just want to see them get wings.
They had no wings outside of Jackie Young last year,
and like that needs to be different this season, Like
they need to have players who can come in and
play on the wing and add depth there. Like that's
what I really want to see change because like, again,
I think I can see the value in having a
player like Cheyenne, but I just think it like it

(01:18:20):
cramps the style a little bit of what makes this
team so good. Like so, I don't know, it's it's
interesting with that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
No, I actually agree with you completely there. I'm cur like,
who would you want them to go after? Because as
much as like I love Alicia Clark at the four,
I wish they kept Kate Martin because I think she
could have played that role too, but alas they did
not Clark's thirty seven years old, I should Yeah, is

(01:18:48):
there someone that you wish that they did go after
that you think that they could go after that would
allow them to play that style more full time? Because
I I would love to see more of that, because
I think also it would help Asia. I feel like
one of the things with Asia that's kind of underutilized
is like using her as a driver like way out,

(01:19:09):
you know. I think that's something that they kind of
like when they did it in the playoffs, when they
kind of ran into it a couple of times in
the playoffs. There is nobody who could guard her if
you gave her a head of steam from the three
point line. And you know, I'm just I mean, I'm
very excited to see what Asia looks like in general
next season, But yeah, is there is there anybody out there?

Speaker 1 (01:19:30):
I'm trying to think, like I advocated, I would love
for them to try and go steal Kennedy Burke from
New York, somebody who can like just play within the
flow of an offense, bring some versatility on defense. I
love players like that. I think they need more players
like that. Trying to think, off the top of my head,
I would have loved to see them get Tory Walker

(01:19:51):
kimbro I think she would have been a good fit. Uh,
Off the top of my head. I it's harder when
you like and I don't want to like again because
I don't want to make it seem like that. It's
it's hard to be this place, like we talked about earlier,
there aren't a lot of like, well, maybe it's a draft,
right maybe, but I think, yeah, I mean I think

(01:20:12):
that they're like you could at thirteen. I think if
they really are putting like the effort into like making
sure they're get the most out of that pick, I
think there's absolutely players there who could wind up playing
a role at least in the regular season.

Speaker 2 (01:20:25):
Because we've been talking about wings and I think that's
the problem, right, Like you just you said it earlier
in the pod, like how many three and D wings
are there?

Speaker 1 (01:20:32):
Really? But they are coming up direct spot.

Speaker 2 (01:20:36):
That could be oh yeah, that could be really interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:20:39):
I don't know trading, but that could be.

Speaker 2 (01:20:41):
Interesting maybe like maybe the pick you just got, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
That's possible. I don't know if thirteen is doing it
for me as Connecticut.

Speaker 2 (01:20:50):
But I mean twelve did it for them for their franchise.

Speaker 1 (01:20:53):
Fair fair, that's a very fair point when you put.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
It like that. Oh unfairness, Natasha Cloud.

Speaker 1 (01:21:01):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Well, let's just like do quick hitters
on the last last few things. We already talked a
little bit about Beg to Atlanta, I think I've been
more open to it. Like I liked it immediately. I
was like, I think just that she wanted to go
there was really cool. And they really haven't had a

(01:21:22):
solidified player at the five like Tina was there last year.
I think Tina had a really great bounce back season,
but Tina's like just kind of caught between a four
and a five. Like it it wasn't perfect, Like you
could tell this team just wasn't like sure what it
wanted to be at times last year. I think having Beg, like,
I'm really fascinating to see how she fits into what
Carls s Mesco's vision is. And I'm not sure what

(01:21:44):
his vision is yet, Like is it I want to
take over everything I did it fgcu to hear, or
like what is this looking like? Because to me, if
this is just gonna be, here's a ton of Brittany
grinder in the post. I don't want to say that
I'm not interested, but like, I think I think that
that defeats the purpose a little bit of what the
rest of the team is right now, Like how do

(01:22:05):
they really blend this all together of having Beg, having
Alicia having Ryan having these two perimeter players, you can
really create it all three levels, Like, yeah, I want
to see that get blended and merge. Like so, I
think there's a lot they could do with Like here's
beg playing in trail and like we'd run a lot
in early offense and work in the handoffs and do
a bunch of stuff empty side with her and Ryan. Like,

(01:22:26):
I think there's a lot of fascinating stuff with that,
Like how do they tap into that. I just really
am hoping that this team continues to like they've shown
a lot of ideas of like being in modern basketball.
I want that all to hit this year. Yeah, I
think especially for the player I think Brian Howard can be.
I'm just fascinating how it all kind of wants to get.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
Yeah, I think you almost just say, hey, Ryan, we
want you to take every Threa and Alisha great too,
like take all the threes to your heart's content, because
we have Britney grinder down there cleaning everything up. Like
I think I think the easiest path to modernity to
them is almost like a Missoula ballst isle of like yeah,
put we got not hill men down there too.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
Yeah, but I just like a ton of pick and roll.
I want to see a ton of all screen stuff,
like I mean not and I don't want to make
it sound like there shouldn't be any posts, that there
can't be any post stuff, Like I think that stuff
matters obviously, but like I think it's more of playing
with pace really being able to make it all kind
of blend together and have all of their players kind
of cohesive, Like I want to see that. And then defensively,

(01:23:27):
I think, like like you mentioned, I think what I'm
going to be interested is like how they just kind
of continue to build around this. Like I think Beg
is very strictly a drop defender right now. That's what
she does at her best and with like full respect,
like recognizing like she went through stuff nobody else ever
gone through before. It's amazing that she's even back playing basketball.
But she's not the defender she used to be, Like

(01:23:47):
she what thirty three, thirty four? Now that has an
impact and I don't want to undersell that, but like
I do think, especially with where the league is at
in terms of how teams playing pick and roll, how
teams look to target bigs in space, how teams look
to attack pockets like that. I think it's a lot
harder to build a great defense strictly around drop and
like playing in that aspect. I mean, so when we

(01:24:08):
saw Dallas struggle with last year playing playing Tier McCowan
and Klinie Brown big minutes, like, it's just really hard
when you play against a team that can spread you
out and attack like that. So again, like fascinating to
see how they continue to build around that, and particularly
like what did we put at the four spot and
kind of building out around that.

Speaker 2 (01:24:30):
Yeah, I mean, I think I think I'm pretty much
in agreement with you there. It's not it's not necessarily
what I was envisioning with like carls Mesco, but there
are parts of there are aspects of it that certainly
makes sense. And there's also I guess the aspect too
of like if you want to just if you want
to win, that's a hole that you needed to fill.

(01:24:50):
I'm curious about NAS's long term fit on that team too,
and how that's gonna work, especially now that Grinder's there
as well. I could see her potentially ending up somewhere
else as well. I think there's a lot of teams
at the four that would love to have her if
the Mercury somehow don't get the want of Bonner. I
think I just think she'd be really great there as well.

(01:25:13):
I have not yeah yeah, actually yeah, yeah, I was
gonna say not now that they've made their moves, but
I think i'd still I actually like to see her
there as well. So yeah, it seems like it's like
an in construction sort of moment for Atlanta. But like you,
I can't. I'm like, I'm ready to just see what
it looks like.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Yeah, I just want to see everything else come together. Okay,
let's do really quick on obviously, Satu, like I think
it was reported recently deciding between Phoenix and New York.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
Meeting with Phoenix.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
And yeah, it's interesting because like thinking about everything, well,
every time I think about Satu, I just think about
Gaby Williams, to be honest, Like the thing I'm fascinating
to see is like, if Sawthuu doesn't end up in
New York, I wonder if Satha makes a play for
Gabby Williams, because whatever you end up would have quote

(01:26:06):
unquote been ending up to sign and trade saw too.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
But you mean if New York, You're wonder New York would.

Speaker 1 (01:26:13):
Make a play for Yeah, I think, yeah, I think
that could be really interesting to me. Yeah, because to me,
like I think Gabby is like the piece that I'm
just really fascinating to see, Like what because we just
haven't heard a lot about her since she got court. Yeah,
and I feel like there's again just with with the
core happening. I think there's so much room for that
to be a move. So I don't know, have you

(01:26:35):
thought about that at all?

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
I you know, I think I think maybe it was
not thinking about Gabby Williams enough because she got coughed
and when she got corded, like the suggestion in the
reporting was that she was going to stay. But that
could definitely be a bit of a smoke screen on
Seattle's part to send her somewhere else. I personally would
love to see that. I just think that her skill

(01:26:59):
set is a little bit reductive in Seattle and could
be really useful actually on a team like New York
where you kind of want, like we talked about, you
don't necessarily want stars. You want players that can do
a lot of the dirty work. And I think, you know,
also playing in more of like a five olt context.
Her lack of floor spacing would not necessarily matters what
much she's so athletic. I could see her just slashing

(01:27:21):
to the rim, cutting all that stuff, with all the
playmaking and spacing that's around them on that on that team.
I just yeah, I would love to see that. What
do you think would what do you think it would
take to pry her away?

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
That's a great question, I feel like, I mean, the
issue is like you have to trade back because Seattle
right now, I mean like they I don't envision the
Seattleers being like, well, we don't want to contend anymore,
especially when they got everything that they have there. I
don't know, Like I feel like I'll just be I

(01:27:54):
don't know, could it be? Well, because all right, let's
pull like this, who are the trading for Satu?

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
Like it's if you take that package?

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Yeah, yeah, who are you trading for Satu? It's probably Beniguelini.
Like I don't want to trade Benigeleni. But this is
just my ankling, like maybe she wants to be in
a bigger role. Maybe there's room for that, Like how
do you kind of factor that in? And I'm I
just feel it's interesting because like I just because we

(01:28:24):
know that the potential of Satu to to New York
is real, and this has been coming out like somebody
is getting traded. That means that they're having conversations about
somebody getting traded and having that come up. And honestly, like,
I think I look at it like this too. If
New York could straight up just like run it back
with everyone from last year, I would think I would

(01:28:45):
I would be trying to do that. So like maybe
there is real like movement for something to happen. Which
that's why I've been thinking about Gabby, because I'm like,
all right, if Satu isn't the play, what is it? So,
I don't know, I'm gonna be interested in just kind
of what happens there.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Yeah, I mean, it's just it also is a very
interesting thing from the Seattle perspective too, because you could
get a package from New York that was, I mean
kind of similar to what it would be for sawtoo,
where you have one player that can help you right now,
and you also get a draft pick. Now, all of
a sudden, you've got the number two pick and the
number seven pick. I don't know, perhaps that's enough to

(01:29:23):
trade up the number one pick. And all of the sudden,
maybe you probably need a little bit more, But now
all of a sudden, Page Becker is feeling a little
bit okay with the twenty twenty five pay structure. I
don't know potentially, who.

Speaker 1 (01:29:38):
Knows, who knows exactly. That's the fun part. There's just
so much stuff that could happen, which is what makes
it exciting to close out. Please Chicago, do not trade
the number three pick. Yeah, that's where I'm at. I
know you and I I love going out signing Courtney
Vanderslute awesome, Like, ye, just get a stake, perfect sign Yeah,

(01:30:01):
I understand wanting to be competitive and quote unquote take
a step. This team was competitive last year, Like it's okay,
we don't need like I just think that this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Twenty twenty six, guys, twenty twenty six, I just can't.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
I don't want to see this happen. Like who is
the player? Who would have to be the player? If
you're comfortable actually trading the third pick.

Speaker 2 (01:30:25):
For Chicago, it isn't out there because I don't have
enough confidence in them being able to re sign whoever
the player is. So you have to keep everything with
this trade market. You have to keep in mind that
no matter how confident somebody is in your team, they
are not going to be signing long term because of

(01:30:45):
the new CBA. So even if it's like, I mean,
the best like if we're looking at like the realistic market,
like the best player you're gonna get is saw too,
that doesn't really like make sense to me. I mean,
I think she would actually fit really well, and I
think that she would like really enhance Angel and Camilla's
games just because of her playmaking in her spot of

(01:31:08):
shooting ability. But at the same time, if you don't
have like something and it's a good market too, I
think Stu wants a good market, But she's also saying resources.
Chicago does not have the resources. They have also a
terrible reputation with retaining free agents. All of the problems
that they have run into have come from making moves

(01:31:29):
like this for free agents would eventually then requested a
trade elsewhere either let them walk or you have to
get less value from them when they're going out of
the door. So you don't want another Marina Maybrey situation, right,
It's just I just don't think it makes any sense
for them with where they are at in their trajectory,

(01:31:50):
and I will say, it's not like an anti Chicago thing.
I didn't. I don't. This is what I would have
said if you asked me about the Sparks and the
number two pick as well. So I just wouldn't do it.
Like it's all the same cases. It's all like the
cost control, and you can you can enter twenty twenty
six being a real player, You'll have your practice facility
by then you get like a year under Tyler Marsh's

(01:32:13):
belt as well, and now all of a sudden, the
entire league is available to you, as opposed to just
like a couple of free agents in this market.

Speaker 1 (01:32:22):
So yeah, I just exactly, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
It would have to be like it would have to
be like one of the best players in the league,
Like it would have to be players that are unavailable
right now.

Speaker 1 (01:32:32):
Yeah. Well, my thing is like I think, like the
most not even saying that I think she's available, but like,
I think the most quote unquote realistic Storry is like
Aeriel Atkins out of Washington, Right, She's good, She's really good,
but like exactly, like if you don't have commences.

Speaker 2 (01:32:45):
It doesn't pass muster for me. Yeah, and that's nothing
against Atkins, just like it's nothing against Plumb for like,
it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
About it's just like where you're at right now. And
I think exactly like you said to me, it's it's
not anti show. It's because I like what Chicago's building
and I'm excited about what it could be and they
should keep building of course, Like, yeah, building it, don't
you just building it exactly so we'll see it. I
have kept you for a really long time. Uh is
there anything you want to plug before you out here?

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
Oh? I mean you put you I plugged it in
the at some point in the podcast, just wrote an
article and uh, you plug You plugged the podcast as well,
So I don't you didn't give me too much that
I need to be plugging. I'm really glad that we
got to do this. I've had you on a couple
of times, and I'm glad that we I'm also I'm
glad that I made up for the time that I

(01:33:34):
did not respond to you when you asked me on
your podcast to talk NBA. It was one I think
it was during code.

Speaker 1 (01:33:42):
It was during COVID, during COVID. Yeah, So for sending
out an email during COVID.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
But I wonder if you asked me if I wonder
if it was like one of those emails that was
also like, I hope you're doing well in these trying times.

Speaker 1 (01:33:53):
I did. I was the people who did that. I like, Okay,
I don't want to say that I didn't like pretend
it wasn't happening, but I was just like, I just
tried to play it right.

Speaker 2 (01:34:01):
Yeah, but the times we're not trying for you, they
were definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
I was living in in like a six hundred square
foot apartment with my six month old puppy at the time,
which was just awesome and also the worst. But yeah,
to everyone listening and watching, first off, thank you for
doing so, especially if you made it all this way through,
keep up with all things that Syria is doing over

(01:34:27):
on her show, and most poorly, enjoy the rest of
your day.

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