Breaking Down the Top of the ACC with Kelly Gramlich

The ACC has been as strong as ever in the 2024-25 season, with phenomenal top end teams, a National Title Contender, and a great deal of depth. Broadcaster Kelly Gramlich joins Mark Schindler to break down and discuss the upper tiers of the ACC.

You can listen to the pod on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/theyve-got-now/id1652378572

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As always, a major thank you to James Edwards III for the intro and outro music! If you have not already, follow Mark on Twitter @MG_Schindler and be sure to rate and review the pod!

Send any questions, comments, or feedback Mark's way, and enjoy the show. 

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to another episode that they've got Now. I'm really
excited to be joined today by Kelly Gramlich to talk
about the ACC, which has been, as always, just an
insane blood bath. There's only one undefeated team what like
three weeks in the conference play. It feels like even
less if you can have less, really, But Kelly, first
and foremost, how are you doing.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
I'm doing great, Mark, thank you so much for having me.
I've followed you on Twitter and followed your work and
just love how committed you are to the women's game.
So really excited to talk today.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, no, I appreciate that. Obviously, I've been hearing of
your work for a while, just watching TV as one does. Yeah,
this the ACC is nuts, which is why I wanted
to get you on. I'm doing a bunch of conference
just kind of midseason stuff, and I have to start
with a SEC because this again, just as always, I
think every year, this conference finds a way to surprise you,

(01:00):
and especially adding in new teams to the mix, and
Callen Stanford, I thought, you know, even more room for
it to be a little funky, and that's exactly what's happened.
So I guess before we even get into looking at
stuff team by team, What has been maybe overarching thing
for the entire conference that stuck out to you.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, that's a great question. And of course you're starting
ACC because alphabetically makes perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
So I love to see you know what you should
have written the show notes for me.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Makes makes great sense, you know, the ACC. I feel
like the ACC overall the past couple of years has
had some really strong years, like the last maybe three years,
getting different team every year in the Final four and
just having such depth beyond the top that this year
is a little different for me because you know, last year,

(01:45):
you thought maybe Virginia Tech was the Final four contender
and then NC State comes out of nowhere it makes
the Final four. Year before you thought it might be
Louisville and then Virginia Tech makes the Final four. So
this year is different in that Notre Dame is the
best team and Notre Dame has the best chance to
make the final four. Like I think we all get
that and we all understand that, and I would be
shocked if they don't win the regular season or the

(02:07):
AEC tournament because they're that good and they're ceiling. It
feels like they haven't even hit their ceiling when it
comes to being fully healthy, getting Westbeld back ingrained, getting
what they want out of Eliza Carlin, and then of
course Hidalgo finally coming back after that ankle injury. So
I think that's what's different this year compared to recent years,
is that the ACC has a true alpha, which it

(02:28):
really hasn't been that way in previous seasons. Now, beyond that,
I still think the ACC has quite a few teams
at the top that can push for top four seeds
and the instead ofly tournament. I know we'll talk about Duke.
I think Duke is a very unique team, so talented,
and they play such an interesting style defensively. I think
that's what happened to Cal the other week. They're just like, WHOA,

(02:50):
We've never seen this before, and obviously it didn't go
well for them. North Carolina looks they're playing team ball right,
They're very much doing it by committee. They're really getting
after defensively. I mentioned a team like Cal. I love
watching Cal selfishly as a three point shooter. I mean
I could just watch Cal all day. And then Georgia
Tech is a very interesting team to me. They need

(03:11):
to get healthy. They need Danny Carnegie back. But when
I saw Georgia Tech playing North Carolina in person did
that game, I thought Georgia Tech looked like the second
best team in the league and a top sixteen team
in the country for sure. So I just have to
get healthy. But I would say overall, that's kind of
what's unique about this year is it feels like there
really is kind of a top dog.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think that's what was so
interesting last year because you, like, I mean, obviously again
like I can't talk about Notre Dame without all the
injuries they've had the last couple of years. But then
you look at again looking at last year, like, okay, cool,
what they're like. I remember Washington get absolutely a house
by Sarahcuse, and then NC State came to Purcell completely
destroyed them, and then something just totally clicked for that

(03:52):
team and they were phenomenal. I think even just saying
they went to the Sweet sixteen, I feel like undersells
how good of a closing for that year it was
for them. And then, like you mentioned, I kind of
like looking back around and bouncing around like I just
know one of these teams in that like five to
ten range in this group is going to wind up

(04:12):
higher than they are right now, just based on how
this conference tends to go. But let's start with talking
about Notre Dame because, like you mentioned, I think obviously
this is a you know, a team that has Final
Four aspirations is playing like a Final four level team
some people, I mean, you could argue that they've been
the best team in the country over the last month.

(04:33):
I wouldn't dispute that necessarily. I still think UCLA is
the top dog after watching what they did to Baylor yesterday.
But with this team, I mean, especially like again looking
at how much they've already played through so many different
iterations of this group this year, like you know, playing
games without Maddie obviously for much in the beginning of
the year, without tons of players in the front court
at Laza was not even Eliza Carlin just started playing

(04:55):
even a month ago. Like, There's there's been a lot
of shift already in this and I think that's what's
been sort of interesting to watch is how they've still
gotten to where they're at handling some of this. So
what do you think has stuck out most of you
since they had their ill fated non conference tournament trip
against TCU and Utah.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, it's so odd with Notre Dame because Notre Dame,
besides UCLA's went over South Carolina, which obviously is the
best win in the country. Notre Dame has probably wins two, three,
and four in terms of the best wins in the country,
but they by far have the worst losses of those
top five teams. And of course some of those top
five teams have losses to Notre Dame, which is a

(05:36):
good loss. So it's weird they went to that tournament.
They lost the TCU, who's a good team, right, but
Notre Dame should beat TCU, and they lose to Utah,
who just recently fell out the top twenty five. I
don't know what happened down there. I'm not quite sure.
They weren't fully healthy yet, they weren't really playing West
Felder Carlin. But the good news is they've they've been
able to write the ship. And if you needed to
work through some things down there to get to where

(05:58):
you are now, then it's worth it. And in the end,
those aren't terrible losses. I mean, you're still on the
one line. If you're Notre Dame probably gonna get a
number one seed. I think it's taken a little while,
even though on paper it maybe looked seamless, but I
think it took a little while, maybe working through that
tournament for Olivia Miles and Hanna Hidogo to kind of
figure each other out. Obviously Southern cal they were electric

(06:18):
in that game Yukon. They were so good together, and
Texas too, so they figured it out and put it
together against really good teams. And it's about what I
thought it would look like, right. I thought that Olivia
Miles would be more on ball, Hannah Hidalgo a bit
more off ball because she's more of a pure scorer,
even though they play so fast that it's really just

(06:39):
whoever gets the ball and go, which is so hard
to stop. I think what's really blown me away about
Notre Dame mark is Olivia Miles is shooting twenty I
think it's twenty three percent better from the three point
line than she did two years ago in her last
healthy season. Hannah Hidalgo is shooting over ten percentage points
better from the three point line than she did last year.
That makes them unguarded. The only knock really on Hinnonhidogo

(07:02):
last year was oh, you could probably give her the three.
She was making thirty three percent, like you could give
her the three. The knock on Olivia Miles was she
didn't really take threes. Who weren't really worried about it.
But now when you pair that with Sonya Citron, who's
one of the most underrated players in the entire country,
and then you pair that with some of the other
guards they'll bring in that can shoot, and now you
have Maddi Westbeld truly back in the fold. I thought

(07:24):
the game against Storage Attack we were there for ACC Network,
west Beeld looked like she did last year. The ACC
tournament was the true turning point for Notre Dame. They
ran through that tournament with basically six players because they
had Kylie Watson get injured, and west Beeld played so well.
I mean, she was hitting the mid range, getting to
the rim, just so good defensively, and it took her

(07:45):
a couple of games, but she looked like that against
George Tech and then Leah tu King. I'm not sure
there is a transfer playing better in the country than her.
And I've covered leat To King a lot. When she
was at Pittsburgh. She was obviously a great player. She
took a huge jump. I think you have to give
Tory Verdi a lot of credit there. I mean from
I think it was I guess her junior and senior
year before the COVID year. She went from averaging like

(08:07):
nine points per game to twenty and was the acc
most improved player. But she fits No nore Dame perfectly.
She doesn't need stuff run for her. She doesn't even
really need a lot of touches, but she'll impact the
game offensive, rebounding, running the floor. She's She's just the
perfect fit for them. My question is just how will
they continue to bring Liza Carlin in. She was playing
the five, She's got great size. Can she get more comfortable?

(08:29):
She just looks a little uncomfortable. And then they have
Kate Cabal, who played a lot early in the season.
I imagine if and when they match up with UCLA,
they're going to need her a good bit to go
up against Lauren Betts. But beyond that, you look at
the bigs they're going to play. It feels like west
Beld and King can handle most of those big so
I'm not sure we've even seen the final form, But

(08:51):
if they come to play, there's no like, if they
come to play every night, they're not going to lose
in the ACC. I just I don't see that happening.
I think they're going to be our first undefeated team
in ACC regular season play in a while, probably since
Notre Dame five or six years ago with coach McGraw.
So I just think they're that good. I think if
they come to play every night, no one can beat
them in this league, and there are only a handful

(09:12):
of teams that can beat them in the country, and
they've already beaten Southern cal Texas in Yukon. We'll see
if they play South Carolina, if they play UCLA, But
I think this is a team that legitimately should have
the goal of winning the national championship.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah. No, I'm in lockstep with you on that. And
I think kind of, like you said, it was really
fun to watch. You know, Hannah and Olivia seem to
like not click right away as me the wrong way,
but it felt like there was just like something early
like this team kind of had it, and then even
before you know, getting to that point playing Utah and TCU,
there was already some like it felt like a little

(09:45):
bit like, Okay, how do we kind of work out
some of the kinks of this, Like, especially as people
got tape on Kate, I think to me that was
the biggest thing in the tournament was Okay, we really
struggled to keep somebody at the five spot, and without
Kate being comfortable there, they just didn't really have an answer.
It was it was two and that was kind of it.
And now having obviously Maddie and Liza back and Kate

(10:05):
getting you know, just some more seasons under her being
able to slop back in a little bit more naturally,
I'd add too, like I think, I mean, Sony obviously
does incredibly good things, but she goes from being like
last year she was like the number two player behind
Hannah having to take on Moore as an homball player.
So now it's like, and credit to her, I mean,
she's been able to handle the shift really well. But
I think you saw that first, you know through Utah
Antcu too kind of struggling a little bit like Okay,

(10:27):
how do I find my role within this? What does
that look like? But now, like you mentioned, I think
the Georgia Tech Game was such a good analog so
I was excited for that one because I mean, they
both run Princeton, both run a ton of similar actions,
and you saw, like just especially once that fourth quarter hit,
of them just kind of really being able to a
lock in and shut down but also just run their

(10:49):
stuff like they need to and really take that game
over and win it comfortably. But the big thing too,
like you mentioned with Olivia, I think what's really been
fun to watch for me this year is obviously the shooting,
but I think what goes along with everything, Like I
probably went out to South End four or five times
last year, and every time I was there, I saw
her working out with Carlos Knox one I won when

(11:11):
she couldn't do anything on court outside of shooting, and
you see it so much this year. But I think
it's that in turn with the footwork, like her her footwork,
her control, her balance, everything, Like I think there were
times where like you never had a question whether or
not should get to the rim, but now it's like, Okay,
she's setting everything up and manipulating and it's like starting

(11:33):
to weaponize her vision alongside everything else. And to me,
that's what makes the offense so deadly. Like you have that,
but she knows where everyone needs to be, where they're
going to be, where they excel, and like you just
kind of see her really fully coming into being a
point guard and somebody who can lead an offense. And
to me, like, that's just what's been so amazing with
this because you know that's real growth and like you

(11:54):
can tell everything she put in to get to this point.
So that's been really fun to watch, and especially with
madd I mean, like in that Georgia Tech game, I
think one of the not even like Knox, but one
of the things that I think Georgia Georgia Tech had
picked on in that game and will moving forward is
like what happens if teams can run inverted offense a
little bit? And like literally I think second player of

(12:15):
that game, they go to Maddie pick and roll in
a four or five and it's like that's where you know,
it's so hard to guard that, Like I think it
seems simplistic for most people, but I'm like, okay, most
people don't have a player six to two that can
score at three levels in pass, Like it's hard to
guard that stuff. So there's just so much here that's
really exciting, especially moving forward, and hey, they did that

(12:35):
without Hannah even playing. And speaking of Hannah, I mean,
obviously I think you could make it like a four
or five player case right now, but Hannah probably has
just about the best case for National Player of the Year,
which is pretty awesome to say. I mean, what what
is maybe stood out most to you this year for
her compared to last season in kind of taking that

(12:56):
elevated step.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, I mean Hannah Hidalgo. It's funny how we've been
talking about Notre Dame and we just really started about
talking about Hannah because we're almost just conditioned to what
she does. You know, It's like, oh, she had another
twenty five five and five night or whatever it is,
and you just kind of move on, like, oh, yeah,
that's what Hanna Hindogo does. But I think, you know
you mentioned with Olivia Miles, I feel like we're seeing

(13:19):
the final form of Olivan Miles, and I think we're
seeing the benefit of her sitting out a year and
really learning the game and learning where, like you said,
where she needs to get the ball in just the
pace and control. I think you're seeing a little better
control from Hidalgo a few times last year. Look she
plays at one hundred miles an hour like that is
her and that is what makes her so deadly, is
she can get three steals in a minute and make

(13:41):
your point guard just demoralized, and you've got to sit
her for a couple of minutes because Hanna Hindoggo just
picked her pocket three times in a row. So she
plays so fast and with such you know, almost recklessness
that it's good. But I think you're seeing a little
more this year is she's able to focus it more
and not have to and perhaps because she has more

(14:02):
help right not have to go as hard and avoid
some of those crazy turnovers that would sometimes happen a
little bit in the ACC Tournament Westbelt and Citron played
so well last year that Hidogo didn't shoot it as
well and it was okay, like the Notre Dame was
able to find their way. As I mentioned earlier, Hidago
shooting what near forty four to forty five percent from

(14:23):
three now compared to ten percentage points lower last year
is a huge difference maker for her and for Notre
Dame because they can play her a little more at
the two, she can be that lethal threat. Then you
have Citron, who shoots forty four percent and you just
good luck, like you're done. So I think you're seeing
a little more control from her, knowing like when she

(14:43):
needs to get up in someone and knowing when she
can relax a little bit because there's just not as
much being asked of her, which is hilarious because she's
averaging more points per game. So I think it's working
out well for Hannah Hidalgo because she didn't have to
do every single thing that she's able to score a
bit more, but she still is. She is one of
the most tenacious defenders I've ever seen. I think she

(15:06):
is one of the most nation defenders we've ever seen
in women's college basketball. The way she can change a
game so quickly with a steal, or the way she
can really bother the other team's point guard while also
scoring twenty five that's what makes her the National Player
of the year in my opinion. People say, well, she
plays both sides, and I feel like, yes, that's the argument,

(15:26):
but I think you have to really emphasize what that means.
She doesn't just guard the other team's best player like
she is the most disruptive defensive player on the floor.
Every single night. She's giving you the most value defensively
while scoring twenty five. I can't. The only comparison is
maybe someone like a Britney Griner because of the impact

(15:47):
she would have from a shot blocking perspective and her
size and her presence that would alter everything the other
offense did. Right, That's basically what Hannah's doing at five
foot six. It's I can't think of and maybe I'm
missing someone. Mark, let me know, I cannot really think
of a comp for her.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
No, I don't, I can't. I mean it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
When you're averaging twenty five.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, well, because like I went back last year because
Neil Neil Ivey talks a ton about you know, some
of the personality comparisons between her and Skylerding and Smith. Yeah, yeah,
going back and like Skyler was incredible at Notre Dame.
But like Hannah, especially because I went back and watched
a bunch of I wasn't I was too young to
like really like fully understand what what Skyler was doing

(16:31):
at that time. But like going back and watching like Evan,
like Hannah just has a different level that not saying
she's better than Skyler, but it's just like it's it's interesting.
I think so often you can watch and look at
stats and you know you can find stuff that's inflated
in it. But to me, it was last year watching
them against Illinois. I mean that's like Makyra Cook Genesis Bryant,

(16:52):
two of the most experienced guards in basketball, and she
just gave them like the worst game ever. Like you
can just tell there's just level. Like it's interesting. I've
heard people say like, oh, her footwork is so good
this and that, Like it's it's not that her footwork's bad,
but I think it's like she is just so capable
of doing things that other people can't do. It reminds
me of like not to make it. I don't know

(17:12):
if you know boxing at all, but like Roy Jones
was like my favorite fighter of all time, just to
explain people, he was like the best fighter of all
time because he thought the game was really smart, but
also like he just did stuff nobody else could do.
Like he could throw angles that nobody else could do
because you other people couldn't do them, like they couldn't
even contemplate it. And that's how I feel about Hannah,

(17:33):
Like she's able to literally like overshoot a gap overplay,
it make you go the other way and beat you
to that spot, and like can you call it good footwork? Sure,
but to me that's just being I mean, that's just
being special. Like there's like not stuff you can do
about that. And on top of that, like with the
national player that you're aspect, I think so much of

(17:54):
it to me with the wards is consistency and like
you look up and down number one, she really has
only had one quote one bad shooting game this year
and that was that was Yukon and Youth. I guess too,
Yukon Utah technically unc but I thought she still played
really well in that game. But she's had every single
game out of sixteen she's played, and she's had two

(18:15):
where she scored less than twenty three points. It's like
the consistency to do that every game like so much
this year, Like all the time last year was okay,
you have to bring the ball up and start plays,
and now like that, she's really gotten comfortable in doing
so much of what they want to do. Playing off
of Olivia and being able to come off the ball
like again, you just get her quickness going in a

(18:37):
different kind of way. That's even harder to garden some aspects. Yeah,
it's it's been pretty pretty incredible to watch, And like
you said, I think it's so easy to kind of
take for granted how incredible it's been because at this
point she's like, well she does that every game, and
I'm like, yeah, dude, that's why it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, she's I guess the best way to describe this
is she's putting up numbers that we haven't seen, but
in specific ways that maybe your average fan would have noticed.
So the steals obviously are insane, right, and that is
pure production. Like you can talk about, oh, this player
is a great defender and they're so technically sound and
all this stuff, and that's great. I'm sure wnbagms want that.

(19:14):
I get it, but you can't argue with her defensive
production and the points that it literally leads to for
her team. The other thing that stands out to me
this is a five to six and five six probably
on a good day, Hannah had aalgo who is shooting
fifty percent from the field. Like, those are numbers that
we attribute to a six six sixty seven player who

(19:35):
can shoot fifty percent from the field when you're the
smallest player on the court that is really mind blowing
to me. And yeah, I just don't feel like we've
seen Skyler Diggans is a good comp because and I've
heard Neille talk about this and Muffett too. I'm talking
with coach often, the competitiveness is different. That's something Neil
Ivy told us from the jump that she walked on

(19:57):
campus and she just took over and her and her
competitiveness like it changed practice, it changed everything for Notre Dame.
And that's what Muffa McGraw has told me about Skyler Diggins.
She has said many times that Skylet d Diggings changed
everything at Notre Dame just the second she walked on
campus with her competitiveness. So that's what Hanna hit all
Go has done. And then you pair her with first

(20:18):
of all, pairing that with her offensive ability which is
very unique and that she's shooting forty five percent from three,
and then of course with the talent around them. I mean,
this Notre Dame team, I think they even looked better
than I thought, because I thought there'd be a little
more growing pains for Olivia and Hannah to figure it out.
But the thing that most people don't realize too, is
that Olivia Miles was practicing with Notre Dame since February

(20:40):
of last year, and she could have come back. And
I give Notre Dame staff a ton of credit for
not pressuring her because this is a team that was
down to six players going into March Madness, who probably
could have made a run if Olivia Miles had said, Okay,
I'm going to put on the jersey. But she wasn't
ready and Notre Dame knew that, and now they're they're getting,
you know, benefit of that.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
No, absolutely, Well, let's transition from Norday. We could talk
about them all day, but there's so much else that
we can get into. Let's talk about Duke next, because
Duke's technically second in the ACC six and one, tied
with NC State. Uh. I liked what you mentioned off top,
talking about saying, you know, this Duke team is talented,

(21:22):
but they're a little bit different in what they do.
Just to run some numbers really quick, because I was
curious about this the other day, going off of obviously
they're they're one loss in ACC players to UNC whel
we'll talk about as well. They have not played those
two teams combined have not played a double digit separation
game in the last three years, and it feels like

(21:45):
even more insane than that. So you go to the
twenty twenty three UH fifty six to sixty one UNC
wins in the first game, forty one forty five UNC
wins in the second game, and then Duke wins in
the tournament forty four to forty and then the highest
scoring game that they've had combined was sixty eight to
sixty the following year, but that was an overtime. Like,

(22:07):
these teams get after it defensively, they're gritty, it's not
always like it's it's very much like early thousands NBA
basketball when they meet, but it's just ferocious stuff. So
let's talk, yeah with with Duke, where are you at
with this team? Because I think in some ways you
look at their record right now at fifteen and four,
and when you consider their strength of schedule, the currently

(22:29):
your second in country in the country, Caro like absolutely
just went all out as she does every single year
with the schedule. So this team definitely took his lumps early,
but I think has continued around into form. So where
are you at with this group right now? About halfway
through play.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
First of all, you bring up that Duke you and
c forty four to forty game that was at the
ACCY Tournament.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
That was nasty and.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
When we were all watching it, we were like, oh
my god, why did they pick this game?

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, that was brutal. I remembered vividly. So Okay do
and I've had quite a few times this year, and honestly,
every time I've had Duke, they've looked a little different.
And it's interesting because they played such a tough non
conference and Kara takes a lot of pride in that
she wanted to challenge this team, and it felt like
in the non con they had really figured out some

(23:17):
offensive issues. I mean they could they were I know
the Oklahoma game went to overtime, but the in regulation
it was like high nineties. So they were just scoring
with Oklahoma, and I'm like, wow, what is this Duke team?
But I think some of that was they were playing
a little bit their style was kind of mimicking some
of their opponents in that way, like, Okay, against Oklahoma,
we have to score whatever. But Kara definitely wasn't pleased

(23:38):
with the defense at that point, and now the defense
has really rounded into form and you're kind of wondering
where the offense is. So the whole question with Duke
is it feels like they figured it out Defensively. What
they did to Cow was nasty work. I mean, they
made a team who is trying to push for a
top four seed in the an Sotulle Tournament look like

(24:00):
they didn't even know how to pass the ball. Like
what Duke did defensively to Cal was just really really impressive.
But Duke has struggled a bit offensively in the last
month or so. They had the Virginia game. I did
that game that was ugly. Virginia probably should have won.
Duke just gritted it out at the end. But Duke
really couldn't find much offensively. The North Carolina game. I mean, gosh,

(24:22):
everyone struggled. It felt like so for Duke to reach
their potential, I think they have to be better offensively.
I think a lot of it comes down to a
player like Reagan Richardson. Ashlyn Jackson's actually been very consistent.
I think Reagan would tell you she's got to make
some more shots, and she's getting good looks. It's just
a matter of knocking him down For Duke to be
where they want to be, Reagan has to play like
insteadly tournament Reagan from last year where she was just phenomenal,

(24:45):
And then the whole question is like how much of it?
I always feel like Toby Fournier needs a little more
time on the floor, And look, maybe Kara has a
mastermind plan, and I'm sure she does to kind of
ease Toby a little more into the year, and then March,
when you're past that freshman wall, whatever it is, maybe
we'll see some more Toby Fourgnier and see her playing

(25:06):
like thirty minutes because she's special. She is a special talent,
and in pretty much every Duke game I've done, there
has not been a player on the other team that
can guard Toby fourgner like her length, her footwork, her moves,
and even her post moves are already ready, like she's
ready to go. So I'm sure some of it's defensive

(25:28):
or whatever, but I just want to see more and
more Toby Fourgnier, and I'm hopeful we'll see more February
into March. But they have They're so much more offensively
talented than they were a couple years ago when they
were the best defensive team in the country. But it
feels like they've flipped a switch where they're saying, Okay,
we want to be that again. We want to be
the best defensive team in the country the way that
And I'm doing a tape on this and Macy's never

(25:49):
this week, so I'm excited about it. They just do
such unique things, like I have this tape I'm going
for Duke. They they're trapping off an offensive rebound. Okay, there,
most people, when you're guarding kind of like just the
DHO action at the top of the key, you're just
gonna switch it. You're kind of gonna lay back and
just play on the on the arc and see what's
gonna happen. Reagan Richardson is literally going up over the

(26:12):
DHO and like going over the screen, but going over
the DHO just to get a steal. Very few other
teams do that, and so I think when, especially for
team like Cowa, you haven't seen it before, you're just
so taken aback. And that's why I think Duke can
be very effective in the NSA Tournament because a lot
of teams haven't seen another team that just guards and
defends like they do, and The thing with Duke too,

(26:33):
is they have so much depth to have the luxury
of bringing Fournier off the bench, but also Aluchia Kanawa, Alucia.
If there's one other defender in the ACC that is
somewhat of the same breed as Hanna Hidalgo, it's a
Lucia kan Yeah. She she is someone too who just
plays one billion miles an hour and they bring off

(26:54):
the bench and they just say, go as hard as
you can, and she does. And she's getting better offensively too.
But I think Duke has a very high ceiling. I
think it just comes down to can they do enough
offensively and in those big games when they're playing another
team that can match their athleticism and match their ability
to get up and down the floor, because they're great
offensively in the open floor like most people are, but

(27:16):
it's more executing and making shots in the half court.
So I'm just curious to see if Duke can almost
pair some of the offense from the non con with
this defensive identity that they very much started embracing. And
I mean, maybe it's a non answer, but that's just
kind of like I think we're going to have to
see them play some of these better teams play NC State,
play UNC Again, play Notre Dame to see really where

(27:40):
they are.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, I like everything you mentioned. I think with Duke,
my biggest thing I come back to because exactly like
you said, I think the talent is so there and
even in every loss. I think you look at every
loss and you can kind of pinpoint it to one thing.
Like I watch washing back the South Carolina game, it's
just the first quarter. Like if you remove the first quarter,
you can say that about it, scond, but you removed
the first quarter from that game, and it's like, cool,

(28:02):
well that's I mean, that was right on part. They
looked like they could hang with that South Carolina team.
But I think, like you said, with the consistency piece
was kind of like the opposite a little bit of handle.
Like I talked about it with Reagan earlier this year,
I think the biggest thing for her is being that
consistent player. Because you talk about that tournament and so
much of that tournament of why they succeeded was against

(28:25):
K State and Oklahoma. They just saw drop coverage every
single ball screen and absolutely obliterated it.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
And it was a little I mean, this respect was
a little kind of like big twelve defense.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah no exactly, Yeah, yeah, no for sure. And but
it's also like the aspect of like just taking what's given,
and I think sometimes this team struggles with that. I
think it was I don't want to say an issue
as far, but I think last year it was part
of the thing. It's like, Okay, well can you just
take this and take what's given to you? See, see
and read those things. And I feel like this team
is just kind of consistent with how they read the

(28:57):
court at times, and that sometimes that's just I mean,
it tend to just be with the guards. I think
Ashle's been pretty good with that. That's this year, but overall,
like I think that's just where I'm at with this group.
And I think it's tough too, because like this team
deserves a lot of credit for being where they're at.
So I think a lot of people can look at
where they're at, you know, you know, you see all
the top one hundred recruits and this and that, but

(29:18):
I'm like losing every player, coach, anyone I've talked to
last year who had to play against Kimbilla, ms bow
And and Geez and Kennedy Brown, like I mean that
was the most difficult front court to play against that
didn't have you know, an all American I mean the
two players sixty six that are smart, that are mobile.

(29:39):
Like the change from that to this post group, I
think that's been a really big turning point for them
and kind of figuring it out. And I think they're
still weighing it. Like Jordan Woods brought some stuff as
a stretch player, Delainey Thomas just kind of does a
little bit of everything. Like you mentioned, I think Toby
to me has to be the answer eventually. Like how
they get to that will be interesting to see. But
like I mean, she's she's their leading scorer right now,

(30:01):
playing eighteen minutes per game off the bench. It was
is hilarious, But like I think so much is just
like the game continuing to slow down for her and
getting comfortable with it. But I also feel like, kind
of like you mentioned, like is there just a point
where it's like, all right, we let her just play
twenty five minutes a game and figure it out because
you kind of need it.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
I am hoping so yeah, and maybe they get to them,
Maybe they have this plan, you know, I mean, Kara
is so she's got a system for everything. You know,
she's so locked into these things. So maybe that is
a plan, like we're gonna kind of ease her in
and then by the time we really have to make
a push a SEC tournament, whatever it is, Maybe it's that.
And I also know for them from like replacing those posts,

(30:41):
which I know they loved Brown and Msbow, I think
Arianna Robertson Roberson was going to do a lot for them,
So that was a tough injury for them to have
to navigate to. No.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Absolutely, well, yeah, we're gonna find out a lot more
about them soon because they have. They played Georgia Tech
I think Sunday, so that's gonna be a big game
for the big game for Georgia Tech as well. Let's
talk about UNC now, though, who took down Duke in
another one of those absolute Brian fest recently. This UNC team,

(31:12):
I wasn't sure how I felt early on in the year,
knowing that they were going to make some of these
big changes. Obviously, they had the game against Yukon and
it was it wasn't pretty early on in the game.
But I think you look overall at this team, I've
been really impressed with where they've gotten to and I
think obviously want to still see some things continue to

(31:33):
iron out, but overall, like I just feel a lot
better about where this team is at and what they
can do ceiling wise compared to last year or the
year prior, when you look at again like overall depth,
but also just I mean, this is probably the best
defense in the ACC in my opinion, one of the
best in the country. But I think to me the

(31:55):
starting point is how good Maria Gokdang has been because
like I've always liked Maria Goktang watching her at BC,
I thought she was really good at BC went kind
of underrated. I thought she was a really sneaky good
pick up last year immediately slided is a good starter.
I think she's been incredible this year, Like she's just
been unreal from the field, has cut down or fouling

(32:16):
a little bit, continues to be an absolute staple. Like
big reason they took out Kentucky their best win of
the season in my opinion, is because she was the
best big on the court against a really good Kentucky team.
And to me, like again, I think her numbers can
go underrated because of this. Again, this team routinely plays
eleven players, so you don't really have anybody touching thirty

(32:38):
minutes per game other than lassa Usby. But like, yeah, well,
I mean, where have you been at with this team
so far? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Pleasantly surprised, I think is where I would go with you.
And see, we just saw they were so Dejah Kelly
heavy for four years. You know, it's like, Okay, what
is it going to look like? And it's a much
more like you said, eleven players. Everybody's contributing, and it
feels like pretty much every player from last year has
gotten better in some way, shape or form. I mean,

(33:06):
Maria Gochdan has been great. She is kind of what
I thought she would be last year for them, and
maybe just took a little more time because she's still
a really young player. She had that breakout freshman year
at BC and just figuring out her role, getting the
ball a little bit more. She's been phenomenal. I think
she's become one of the best bigs in the ACC.
When you talk about just overall, it is probably her.

(33:27):
Mikayla Timpson is obviously up there, but she's definitely in
that mix. We're talking like first team All acc type
of player. Then you have Alyssa Usby who is just consistent.
I mean, you know what she's going to bring, the toughness,
the grit, the rebounding. The game that I called in
person with you and c Georgia Tech that was probably
one of UNC's worst games versus a really good team

(33:50):
this year, and Zoe Smith from Georgia Tech really shut
down to us By. So that was surprising to me
because it's weird to see US be get shut down.
So obviously that's something that can't happen. That's what can
be an issue for them. If US we can't score,
then it's an issue. But it seems like they're hopefully
going to learn from that situation for the What I
like about UNC too is they've got a lot of

(34:10):
depth at the guard position and it's a lot of young,
exciting talent. I mean, you have Dinarski, who's the og
in the vet that Renia Kelly has looked really good
for this team. You've had some spot minutes from Townsend
and Landy Grant, who know they're excited about Like, you've
got a young core there at guard. Indian Navar is
a player.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
I've always liked I loved her game so much.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
I was so impressed with her last year and just
seeing her have a bigger role. She's a really fun
player to watch. So I think this team just has
a lot of depth, funny enough, I mean, I feel
like there's a good bit of parallels between Duke and
North Carolina, and in recent years they've been a little
more different, even though they always play these grinded out,
please make it stop games. But you know you and

(34:53):
C like you said, are you the best defense in
the ACC? Duke's right there trying to push for that.
They're they have a lot of depth. They're led by,
like we said, some of those kind of veterans who
are getting bigger roles, like a Gag Dang or Regn
Richardson or whatever. So I see a lot of similarities. Obviously,
UNC beat Duke already, so you got to give him
that nod. But I had questions. I mean I had

(35:15):
I didn't know what it would look like with au
Deja Kelly. And it feels like they I mean, they're
better than I thought, for sure. I think UNC's better
than I thought. That Kentucky win was massive for their resume.
They're about to play some really good teams, so we're
gonna learn a little bit more, but they're up to
what thirteen in the country something like that. I've been
impressed with the job that Cody Bankhardt has done.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, no, absolutely, And like you mentioned too, wake Forest,
who has been tough defensively, they they were able to
like really just slow down games. So it's always a
fun one to see with that Florida State on Sunday
and then cal next week, so a lot coming up
down the pipeline for them. Last thing I would say that,
like you mentioned Indian of var again, I think this
team box scores can be so deceiving just because you

(35:57):
look at her box and like, oh, like nine points
through rebounds, like three assists, it's whatever, and like, but
you watch her play and I think she has a
real case is like an All defense member this year
with what she brings and then also just always comes
up big with some kind of shot or drive. Obviously
want to see the efficiency continue to pop up, but
I think like that's part of the growth process as
a guard. And we even mentioned like I think Blanca

(36:20):
Thomas deserves a lot of credit for that game against Duke.
Oh my god, she walled.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Off against That was definitely the game where Tugby Fournier
struggled the most, and there's no coincidence that you and
s won the game because of it and Blanca Thomas
pretty much every I just went back after that game
and watched every Fournier play just to figure out, like,
what the heck happened? And Blanca Thomas was involved in
basically every single miss. So, yeah, give her a lot

(36:44):
of Yeah, she.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Is incredible, But I think that was the most minute
she played the season. Yeah, twenty four minutes, three blocksack games,
seven points, state boards. She was. She's somebody I'm excited
to keep watching. Let's go and bounce around. Just a
couple more teams real quick? Uh mentioning Florida State. I
want to talk about Florida say, because Tonaya Lasson has
been I mean, she continues to get better. Is I mean,

(37:05):
hands down probably the best scorer in the country. She's
that leads the country in scoring, but legitimately like has
become I think she was a player where at times
you could you could say she was close to a
three level score but wasn't quite there because the three
ball wasn't there. Do you know what she's shooting on
off the dribble threes this year.

Speaker 2 (37:22):
For some dribble threes, I know her three point percentage
is up in the forties now, which is incredible.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
She's shooting forty one point seven percent on off the
dribble threes, which is like, I think it's close to
two thirds of all her three point attempts he off
the dribble right now, which, like, to me, that's what's
been wild because her freshman year, I think she shot
thirty nine or forty percent from three her freshman year,
but it's pretty low volume. It was mostly like off
the catch stuff. And now it's gotten to the point
where it's like you have to guard her everywhere all

(37:48):
the time, which you did in general already because she's
so bursty, but now it's just like I don't entirely
know how you stop her, and she's gotten so like
I think kind of what went under the radar last
year is how much better she got as a pass
Like just she really started to excel, you know, reading
whence she draws help making the right play. Her and

(38:08):
Timpson are just unreal obviously Amaro Gordon as well, But
where are you at with this team as a whole,
because I think as much as they have improved in
some ways, I think the defense is a little bit
better this year. Obviously Tenaya and KK are just incredible,
it still feels like this team is just missing a
little bit of something to take the step to. And
I don't mean to be unfair to them, but like

(38:29):
knowing like this is a team that wants to make
the second weekend a turn. They don't just want to
go to the teram and lose a game. How do
they get there? So where how do you kind of
evaluate where this group is at right now?

Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, that's a great question, I think for Florida State, obviously,
when Brick Wycoff took over, they changed the style and
they're playing so fast, run and gun, I mean just
playing as fasts possible. They want to score ninety on you,
that kind of thing, and I think there are some
limits to that because in the end, you play a
team like Cal who's just by the way you traveled

(38:59):
three thousand miles just lighting it up and just torches
you in the first quarter, and it feels like from
a defensive standpoint, there's nothing you can do, and so
you can't really get back in the game. So there's
situations like that where it can be a little tricky
for Florida State. But I still think, like you said,
getting to a second weekend, getting to a Sweet sixteen,

(39:20):
with this scheme, you should be able to do that.
And with a player like Tanaia Latson, who I think
is the best scorer in the country. To your point,
one thing that I always wonder about with Florida State,
and I know what's crazy Aboutlatin too, is she is
really efficient. So it's not like she's just dribbling the
airt of the wall. I mean, she is an efficient player.
I love the emergence of Amaro Gordon. I think that's
what really helped lots and become a better passer last year,

(39:42):
is because Gordon was available and there and healthy. And
you have kind of like a Robin with her batman
from a guard position. I've always wanted to see Timpson
featured more, and I mean you talked to coach Bargraw,
that's all she ever said, because she loves post players.
Mikayla Timpson. I mean, Mikhayla Timpson is so talented, and
some of it is they're playing so fast that it's

(40:03):
not they're not running a lot of half court stuff
where they're getting the ball attempts in and if she
gets the ball, she scores, and the way that she
can attack the glass is really impressive. But it's Florida
State is just so one way that sometimes, you know,
almost wish they'd play a little more half court and
get the ball to Mikaela Tempson. But I think the
big thing for them is just they've got to when

(40:24):
they're not scoring, or things aren't falling, or they're not
getting out in transition, can they win a different way?
And that's something where in the Cow game, you didn't
really see that Stanford game, you know, try to slow
it down more. Can they win a game where teams
really try to slow them down? I mean, that's that's
the question. We'll see again. As we've talked about, everyone's

(40:45):
got more challenges coming up. But I really think for
this team that's the goal. Because Florida State has been
in sweet sixteens and Elite eights, I mean understud somewhere
else they've done that. They haven't been there in a while,
and that would be a huge next step for them.
But they've got to and then the other part too
with Florida State last year, they had such a quick start,
they had such a good start, and then they really

(41:06):
fell off February March. With this style, can they maintain that? Like,
can we see them really making some noise in March.
I'm very curious.

Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, no, I agree. I think one of the bigger
things I'll be looking for is like Sydney Bowles had
a really good non conference. I've been impressed. I thought
she would be a rotation player for them. I wasn't.
I didn't see her being quite this level for them
after watching her at A and M last year. So
I've been impressed with that. I've liked that, but I
want to see her again continue to bounce back from
you know, close to where she was in non con.

(41:37):
I like some of what Maria Williams has brought. I
think it's just kind of like who do they find
is like the consistent fifth player in lineups, Like, you know,
the four players don't want to get out there for
the most part with Vegas along with the top three,
but who is going to be kind of that fifth player?
So I think, to me, like when you look at
some of those games where they have struggled early on,
because that was an issue of times last year if
they had a slow start, I really struggled to come

(41:59):
back because, like you, I think if you can get
a lead and start off like that and keep your
pace going, it's hard to hard to counter. But then
when you, like you look at the Illinois game early
on this year that they lost, I think so much
of it is, okay, how do we kind of come
back from this? So again, finding that fifth start is
going to be really interesting to see where they kind
of land on that by the end of the season.

(42:22):
Interestingly enough, you know, just looking at the ACC overall,
when we first started talking, me like, h, what are
we gonna say about Louisville And Louisville is six and
two in the ACS now obviously just took it a
tough loss recently, But I think you look up and
down at what this team has been able to do
and kind of come back to I think this is
a little bit in line with what I expected this year. Obviously,

(42:44):
not that you expect the team to to maybe quote
unquot struggle as much as they did, but they played
an incredibly difficult non conference off rip and also looking
back it's still as difficult as to look then, and
this was just a very different team so much. I mean,
what seven freshmen on this team, all of them are
playing for the most part. Where are you at with

(43:06):
with Louisville right now?

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Yeah? I just had Louisville Virginia Tech and that that
was a great game. I think Virginia Tech they looked great.
If Lonnie White can continue to emerge, that's a team
that I think can be in the tournament, which would
be a heck of a job for Mega Duffy in
year one. But for Louisville, it's weird. There's such a
bi committee team that they don't have what they've had

(43:30):
in the past an hbl A Dana Evans obviously go
back to Asia dur and Johnny Shim or whatever. But
Angel mcconferd like, they don't have a real go to player,
and it's been this way for a couple of years
for Lovell, so they really have to get it done
by committee, and different players show up at different times,
and if they don't shoot it well, like Jada Curry
had a rough night against Virginia Tech, if she makes

(43:52):
one or two more of those threes, they probably win.
I mean it's their margin for error is just smaller
now and they've got to make shots because they're not
as disruptive as they have been on defense. They don't
have Emily eng Sler at the top of the press,
like they don't have an athlete like that. But and
what Jeff Walls was telling me too is he feels
like the urgency on defense has been better, Like this

(44:14):
team is getting that, Hey, to win, we have to
guard and so you saw that in their seven game
winning streak and it just was snapped by Virginia tack.
So I think you're seeing more urgency from them. I
think Jada Curry is still the key piece. I think
she's got to be more consistent. She's the most talented
offensive player on the roster and she needs to give

(44:35):
them fifteen consistently, but shoot it well. And that's kind
of as she's a big game changer for me and
then Taj Roberts. She had a tough one against Virginia attack,
but she's so talented. She is the next I think
she's going to be a star at Louisville. She can
be kind of that next alpha for them next year
or the year after but she still just kind of

(44:56):
has some freshman moments. And I thought for them, like
playing even though I played a really tough non con,
I thought the environment in Castle maybe got to some
of their young players a little bit. For Louisville, and
their bigs are just they're solid and consistent. But again,
the player that can really be a game changer offensively
is Curry, and so you have to see her be

(45:16):
a little more consistent. And I thought Julia Williams, like
I was thinking of doing that game, Julia Williams came
out of nowhere in the fourth quarter and she was
attacking the rim and she was so effective, and in
my mind, just like where's this bid?

Speaker 1 (45:29):
Like this?

Speaker 2 (45:30):
We needed this in the first or second quarter for Louisville.
So I think it's still a little bit of work
in progress. But I mean, as per usual, Jeff Falls
is getting the most out of that roster. And who knows,
we could blink and they could end up being a
seven seed, six seed, whatever it is. And I promise
you whoever draws them as a sixth seed is going
to be mad. But they have to play Louisville for.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Sure, No, absolutely, I think just to kind of feedback
on that. Like you mentioned with Taj, I think that's
the player and they se see like freshman wives most
excited about what she can do. Like I mean, I
watched her a bunch of au. I loved your game,
like just felt like a Louisville player, Like the player
can really slash create. Obviously gets down in defense too.

(46:12):
But I think your point about Jada is a really
good point because to me, just this team just doesn't
have like a player to kind of balance things out.
I think things would look a lot easier for some
of their their secondary players. They had something you could
kind of consistently draw attention and be that that top player.
And I would love to see j to become that.

(46:33):
We got to talk about NC State because we didn't
even mention them really somehow, I think to me, this
is the team that obviously, there are plenty of teams
in the country that can quote unquote go under the radar,
But to me, NC State is a team that has
been like just really interesting because again, every and anytime
a team loses early on, I think they just kind
of get shoved under the rug a little bit. Obviously
had a lot to kind of figure out. I think

(46:54):
this team obviously again you bring back that that top
four of Asias and I as always and Madison Hayes,
and everybody's like, oh, well, they should be in the
final four again, and I think obviously it's a goal
for them, but replacing their entire front court just throws
a big wrench in that. But obviously the recent loss
to Kala notwithstanding, and that's a tough game for them.

(47:16):
So but yeah, this team really seems to be starting
to kind of click and figure some things out, particularly
I mean, looking at Virginia, I think I can't sing
the praises of Madison Hayes enough for what she does
for this team in all facets, because this team, they,
I mean, they know how to win games ugly, which
I think is a credit to them. It also can

(47:36):
be I'm sure that Wes Moore doesn't love having to
win ugly, but they can do it. So yeah, where
are you at with this team right now?

Speaker 2 (47:45):
I think n C State their guard play is tremendous.
Their guard play is probably the second best, maybe third best,
if you want to throw a healthy Georgia Tech in
there in the ACC with Azaiah and Snaia Zoe, and
they just are just bringing Zam Jones back. She's been
she was hurt for a while and now she's been
back and kind of they're easing for back in, so
that's really exciting. And then Madison Hayes Poten Counter is

(48:06):
a guard kind of a three hybrid player there. But
you're right, Mimi Collins and River Baldwin meant so much
to this team. Probably people remember River a little more
than Memi Collins. Memi Collins was a just do it all,
defensively rebound glue player for them, and they're missing that presence,
that's for sure. But they still are so talented at

(48:31):
the guard spot that Aziah can just walk in and
give you thirty on a given night and you're probably
not gonna win the game because Asia gave you thirty,
So they still have that for him. I like Trigger's
coming along.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I've been really excited about her.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
LUs More likes her a lot, so, I mean, you know,
he's been kind of just circling through bigs. He's got
a lot of options. They're just young and inexperienced, so
he's got bodies to work with. So I think as
Trieger and these other young bigs start to come along
that NC State still hasn't played their best yet, which
is good. I mean, you don't want to have played
your best in mid January. The thing that wears me
FRENCY State, and I feel like this happens more often

(49:07):
than not, especially in the ugly winds. Sinaia Rivers gets
two fouls. I mean, I feel like it happens so often.
Then you don't see her in the first half, or
you don't see her in the second quarter, and it
just throws things off. And I've always said this to
you about Snaia and she knows I'm a huge fan
of her. I feel like she's just got to be
more aggressive. Like I called the nci State Clemson game,

(49:28):
and I feel like Sanaia didn't even turn it on
really till the fourth quarter, Yes, and she got in
vowel trouble, Like I need her to turn it on
from the tip. And I'm sure they're all saying that it.
Wes Moore is probably talked about that too, But she's
just such a We talk about Hannah and these other
players that are unique, different athletes. I mean, that's Senaia

(49:50):
Rivers and you need her on the floor at all times.
So I think I think it's good frensy state to
kind of live under the radar. Wes Moore loves the underdog,
you know, he loves that vibe. No one's talking about
us whatever. I think that's a great frenzy state. And
they can continue to bring their young bigs along and
I think they're gonna probably make some noise when we
get into postseason play.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, I like what you mentioned about Sinaia. I think
it's so tough for me with her too, because you
watch her, Like, did you watch the Davidson game that
they played.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
I think I watched a little probably.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
Well it's first off, Davis is really good for people
who haven't watched, they are. But their whole thing is
they switch everything. They play like six foot to six two,
every single position to switch everything. And Sonaia in that
fourth quarter just decided I'm taking every switch possible and
going to the room. And you watch that game, and
it's like, to be fair, like, I think, as well
as this team can shoot it, they're spacing isn't always

(50:42):
the best. I think, like sometimes they can get a
little bit bogged down and things. Having told to kind
of figure some things out is helpful. In that, but
also you can see like, Okay, you look at the
Clemson game, you look at the cow game, where like
you know, you can tell there's some visible frustration between players.
It's like you're not where you're supposed to be in
this and that, and like, I think it's just about
refining those things, especially execution wise, because to me, the

(51:03):
defense just isn't the same level it was last year,
which has been the biggest thing for me. Like getting
the defense back to that level is key, and I
think the issue is it's a good thing in a
bad thing where it's like, well, we know we can
be at that level, but also we know we can
be at that level, we're not doing it and obviously, like, yeah,
you have to figure that out with a different big
but I think with the guard play and what they
can do, like they should be able to shut down

(51:24):
some of the stuff more and it's just doing it consistently.
But yeah, I think just figuring out how to kind
of push those right buttons will be key. But like
you just look at what they've done in conference play
so far, like Sanaia was her her box score outside
of outside of conference players rough to start and now
she's shooting forty eight, forty four like seventy in conference play,

(51:49):
is like really just had some phenomenal games. Seems to
be like figuring out how to play off the ball
a little bit more because you know, they changed some
things up with just how many guards they have in
this group. But I mean still very much a team
that again second weekend going deep, like that's what they
want to do and they're capable of doing it. She's
kind of finding that. But just to do a little

(52:10):
rapid fire because I this is the hard part about
the teams. Now, I'll give you thirty seconds, maybe slightly
more than thirty seconds, to just wrap real quick. First
thing that comes by, I whant to say, Georgia Tech.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
They got to get healthy first. The other first thing
that comes to mind is when I saw him plain
North Carolina and I thought they were second best team
in the league. But that was when they were healthy.
They were playing great. Danny Carnegie was excellent in that game.
I think Danny Carnegie calms them down, which is crazy
because she's a freshman, but she calms them down. She's
so common poison offense. She gets them big buckets, she

(52:45):
takes pressure off of Tony Morgan and Karen Done So
I think Georgia Tech still has the potential to be
the second best team in the ACC. They've got to
get Carnegie back, and I hope people understand that she
has been hurt, got hurt in one of the losses
and then hurt for the next two losses. So their
three losses have come without a full string Danny Carnegie.

(53:05):
So people just need to remember that.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Yeah, that's a great point. And Tony Morgan, I just
got to say, Tony Morgan has been like in the
running for ACC Player the year, obviously gonna be behind Hannah,
but she is so good, like I cannot like her
talent has always been there, but again, she just feels
the game this year in a different way unreal player.

(53:28):
It's funny too because this team Loki kind of obviously
not the same, but similar to NC State last year
of like, we go out on this really hot start,
we look incredible, everything's great. People didn't expect us to do.
This also started off unranked and then it's like, oh,
here's this giant string of losses right as we get
into ACC play. How do we figure this out? I
think that they still have a lot that they can

(53:49):
figure out. They're really talented. They're going to get their
mil Forwardner's really good. When I say Cal. We've mentioned
Cal a little bit. This this is the team for
me that I like had the least most questions about,
least expectations, I should say, especially coming into a new conference.
What have you thought of Charm's best team.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
I love Cal. I love watching Cal play. Now. I
know they've had, you know, the Duke game. Like I said,
I think when you haven't played Duke before and you
play them and they just bombard you. I think Cal
looked discombobulated. I mean, that was for sure, But let's
put that game aside. It's obviously an outlier. They with
Kremealy and Twydale, two of the best shooters in the

(54:32):
country on the same team, and then you have Martis
Worrez coming along, who's playing really well. They're so fun
to watch. I did a tape on them last last
week where I just showed them literally passing up layups
to shoot threes, and it warms my heart. It's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
It is beautiful.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
There are times where maybe that's not the best call,
but hey, I'm all for it. They play a unique style.
They play it well, they have the perfect personnel to
fit it. And it's interesting because I think that the
Duke game was a combination of seeing duke, not kind
of knowing what it's like to play duke, and traveling
three thousand miles. And that's what's weird about. And I'm

(55:10):
sure you'll deal this when you talk Big ten two,
even some Big twelve. Like, I'm not sure a single
team because Notre Dame doesn't go out to Callen Stanford
this year. I'm not sure a single ACC team is
going to go out there and go to and Oh.
It's really hard to play Callen Stanford back to back,
two good teams, two very different styles, to travel out
three thousand miles stay out there for what is it,

(55:31):
four days? NC State couldn't do it, you know, will
North Carolina do it or whatever? And then for Callen Stanford,
are they going to come out here and go to
and Oh on their road trips it's a whole other situation.
Then they got to go back home and then come
back and do it again. I mean Stanford bayleyv. Wake
Forest like that. That's just crazy. So I think there's
a lot of question marks with kind of the outside noise,

(55:52):
But I still think CAL probably more because of the
travel and stuff. They probably won't get a top four
Instealy tournament syed. But that's another team. If they're your
five seed or they're your six seed, you're like, God,
who did we make? Mad? Like that is you do
not want to see Cal as your five or six seed.
They're very dangerous.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Yeah, I'm excited to see the matchup with UNC whenever
that happens, because, like you mentioned, in terms of stuff
with Duke, I think their thing is, like Cal's not
a super athletic team. A lot of what they do
is like love action, is a ton of stuff that's
off ball to sort of muck things up for you,
and they're really good at it. But when they play
a team like Duke that's so long and good at

(56:31):
just kind of containing stuff out of the middle there,
they're I mean, as much as they can struggle sometimes
with execution, I think they're so good at just like
shutting stuff like that down. I think UNC is going
to present kind of a similar thing. But you look
at this Cal team, like you mentioned, I think the
big thing is markus wares for them, like obviously everybody,
but like she really lets them do a lot of

(56:52):
kind of twin with what a front court can look
like and what they have to defend, which I think
NC State really struggled with. So I'm excited to continue
watching that and just how that develops for them. But
I mean, this team is legit good. I think there
were it was fair to like have questions earlier in
the year, but with where they're at now, I'm like, no,
this team is just good. They're gonna go. They're good,
They're They're a tournament team for sure. Well, Kelly, I

(57:14):
know I took up more of your time than I
was even thinking, but so, I mean, if we were
going to get to every team, it would literally take
like two three hours, So I appreciate your time. Really,
is there anything you want to shout out before we
get out of here.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Well, first of all, welcome to our show, because that's
what we deal with every night on ACC.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Anytime, Like, seriously, anytime you talk about an entire conmers,
people like, well, why did you talk about Like, dude,
if I could I swear like no.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
It's it's way too hard. It's way too hard. I think,
you know, just in terms of the teams because of
course we could have hit on all of them. I
really liked maybe because I just called them. I liked
what I've seen for Virginia Tech.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
I think really good this year.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yeah, wensl Lonnie White was big in that game against Louisville.
I would just if Megan Duffy can get this team
to the tournament in your one on, absolute hats off
to her. She's doing a great job there. I'd be
very impressed with that. And of course they retired Kittley's jersey,
which was really cool to see and just like be
a part of. I think a player like Kamara Johnson
probably doesn't get enough love just because Virginia hasn't been

(58:15):
winning as many games. But Kamara Johnson is special and
I'm so curious to see what Virginia does because Alexis
o'hanian has invested all this money in their program, so
can they go get some exciting transfers in the off season.
And I mean their net is not good, but the
way they're knocking off teams, who knows if they could
win like fourteen ACC games or something crazy, something wild

(58:36):
could happen. But yeah, I mean I think it's just
been a really fun year in the league so far.
I'm curious to see if Notre Dame can go undefeated.
I'm curious to see who can really emerge to get
those top four seeds. And then Greensboro. It's always always
a blast.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
It's gonna be insanity and Greensboro, I have no doubt. Well, Kelly,
I appreciate your time to everyone watching. Of course, keep
up with all things ACC women's basketball. You will undoubtedly
see Kelly as you're doing that. Enjoy the rest of
your day.