#22 - What’s it like to work with Lionel Messi?

Our pal and photographer to the stars Neil Bedford joins us to say what it’s like to work with the likes of David Beckham, Lionel Messi and Pharrell… and how he became mates with Kasabian!

All of pur episodes can be watched over on our brand new YouTube channel. Just search 'Tom & Dom's Manhood'

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:20):
Well, welcome to episode two, season three of Manhood, and
we've had a bit of a drive for this episode.
We've come to the is it the seaside here because
it's still a beach over there? Well, I can't see
it because the call them beach up.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
The other day. It's the seaside.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
We've not traveled hour my uncles.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
Finally the seaside. We go to beach and then we've
got fat.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Actually, I mean we definitely go to the beach.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
I think you only say that if you live there,
because you're in the seaside.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
You live in it any how far away from the
from the walk in five minutes, I should have got trunks.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, there you go. We've introduced the venue, but we've
not introduced today's guest, Neil Bedford.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Neil, do you think people a thinking who the hell
is this guy?

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Yes, but that's not a way to introduce.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Is the other side of the camera. There you go.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
That reminds me. I once interviewed a band, Scars on
forty five. Do you remember the Bradford best band who'd
done quite well in America. I interviewed them and the
intro was I know what you're thinking, and I've never
heard of him either.

Speaker 2 (01:28):
That's bad for them because they're the points they've got
to be known.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
And it was the early days of my journalist.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Are you going to read out the Instagram read out scribe?

Speaker 3 (01:37):
You did?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
And like, what the hell?

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Neil is is a long term friend of mine and Tom's.
We've known each other for a fair while. I think
did we meet on the set of Emma Dale?

Speaker 2 (01:46):
Was that? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Well, I think we'd already met and then we Oh no,
maybe I just listened to before.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
I think no, I think we'd exchanged pleasantries many times
and we definitely did meet. To make it sound like
we're not losers who live, I think that's all right now,
isn't it. But we were talking in the early days,
aren't we here? Fifty k dialog, one hundred and forty characters,
Yeah they were, But yeah, so we Neils a long

(02:14):
standing friend of Tom and Ey's. But he has got
an extraordinarily interesting career, which Neil, I know that you're
a bit bashful about. But we'll we'll delve in.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Okay, we've got to tea up basically.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
To let our listeners give our listeners some sort of
insight into what you do for a career. Let's have
a look at your Instagram. Let's have a look through
some of the big names on here. Admittedly there are
someone here I don't recognize, but I'm sure they're big
in their own field. But we've got David Beckham on here. Yeah,
Ron Weasley.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
It just sounds like we're shouting people out. He's photographed
these people, is Neil.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, there's a profession. He had just like walked up
to them in with his mobile foot. Neil is a professional.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
He's not a opera photographer. Okay, we'll get that out
there now.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Kasabian. Yeah, what's your official title with Casabian? Like their
or photomra Probably yeah, probably their Confident maybe Yeah, good friend,
I know you have them? Can has on here? Have
I said? David Beckham already is on here a couple
of times? Yeah, say twice? So I like that one.
Trent Alexander, Arnold, Louis, Tomlinson, me and Tomas Sad him

(03:17):
in England shirt an extortionate price.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
He bought an EBA in English off eBay from me. Yeah,
and his fun was on there and on the order
and I knew it was in like loud Tomlinson Doncaster
essentially the biggest housing in Doncaster. You know his mobile
number one oh.

Speaker 1 (03:31):
Seven, Henry, can you bleep that bit? That is decent?
So I rang decent?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I rang him. I'm going to ring him just to
like confirm his address to make sure you're answer.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I'll continue with the list if you've got any other
anecdotes about these celebrities. Phil Forden, Deli Ali, Alex Turner.
Is that the guy from Actic Monkeys? Yeah, yell fire.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
I didn't realize there was so many.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
There's that lady from that detective program on Telly oh
Ricky McClure for l Williams. Mate, this is an unbelievable
list of people that you've worked with. Do you get
to be friends with them? All? You don't get to
be friends with them.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
All you get you've got the recording. You get to
be friends, but you know, you might only ever have
an hour.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
An hour is.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Quite quite a long time with when you're photographing and
now it is quite a long time.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
So you don't get to be friends with them.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
You surely get to speak You get to.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Speak to them, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
You get to get to gauge what sort of people yes, if.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
You've worked with a few times now, I think twice
or thrice. I love the word thrice. Yeah, probably twice
by But yeah, I have you and you're not mates now,
no made, But it's.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
A professional relationship. It's a professional relationship. Yeah. I think
once I saw that you were photographing Linel Messy, Yeah,
and I said, oh mate, you've got to get Teddy's autographed.
And you're like, might don't quite work like that in
this Yeah, there are.

Speaker 3 (05:05):
It depends on how you are given that opportunity. So
for example with MESSI, which is really it's a long
time ago, and that probably not a great example of
what I do now.

Speaker 1 (05:17):
But it's a bit of a dig at my question.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
No, no, no, it's not a dig. So you would
be putting that was for so okay. Brands will have
strict rules of what you can and can't do and
basically getting an autograph or.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
Selfies when you're with those people. So our friend Lloyd Griffith,
a comedian who's going to be on this series later on, yeah,
also did some work with Messy for FIFA and was
given a very similar list of rules. Don't look and
don't talk to him out.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Oh, I could talk to him, but I don't think
he was that interesting talk. Oh no, we only had
him for ten minutes.

Speaker 2 (05:55):
What's the opening gambit?

Speaker 3 (05:56):
You don't know, he doesn't know. He doesn't to be
fair when when it's a situation. I'm just going to
take that one because that's a specific situation. He's been
filming all day for. It was for an added ask
commercial for I can't remember what it was.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Advert in England. Yeah, sorry, it was called a Mega varia.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
You might remember that shoes and added ask boo slash
what you wear on AstroTurf. Okay, yeah, he wasn't a
very good shoe anyway. So he was filming the commercial
for that, and then we did the stills for that, which.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Would have gone in footlockers window. So he comes at
the end of.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
The day, he's already he's tired out, and you get
fifteen minutes and he's told exactly what to do, which
is basically, hold these shoes and smile, and then with
him he kind of told the whole crew when he'd
had enough, which was five ten minutes, I'm going done.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I mean that sounds fair enough. I'd hit for that
to be a reflection of Messi's personality. No, I'm sure
he's a lovely guy though. So back to what Lloyd
was saying, he got all these rules blah blah blah,
but then he said that at the end, Messi was like, oh,
do you want anything signing? So Lloyd had to run
to the shop.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
Different like it sounds like I didn't th that's a
bad example of we've got in with the worst example.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
Maybe that was one of the hardest I just wanted
to talk abouts was one of the hardest thing I
ever had to do. To be fair, I was well,
I was really young. It was in It was in
a small village but in Spain, and they basically paid
for this whole village to be closed down, so everyone
had to kind of leave and they had control of
the streets everything in this this little place. I was

(07:30):
really young. I think i'd only been out of UNI
a year. It was a great opportunity given to me
by an old friend. But you know, when you just
I was nervous getting on the plane. So then when
I got there, I remember the director of the TV
advert sain, do you want to go first? And I
was like, no, no, no, you go first. I want eight
hours to really compose myself. And in reality, I should

(07:51):
have gone for I would go first now because i'd
be you know, I can.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
Get the skills. The skills. Yeah, you just know, well
you know you roll less. What if you cock it up?
I mean you cocked it up before, haven't you Didn't
You want to tell me an Ian Brown story? You
cocked up with Ian Brown? No? No, yeah you did.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
A famous photographer.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Was Tom gad No, no, no, no, I better not
be remembering one of your life stories. But the way
you photographed it and it was filmed or something. You
are right, you are well done, Thanks very much. That's
a great memory.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
So basically went I remember someone saying, you want to
photography and Brown as part of this thing.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
Yeah, I do. One of my still one of my heroes.
Absolutely love the guy.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
And we were shooting on film back then, so you
couldn't You didn't have any idea what you were actually
capturing and back for you shooting on film, Yeah, it's
quite trending, more trendy than there were still digital cameras around,
but it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Film anyway, the grainy sort of like the no people.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Probably, Yeah, it's a skill on it's it's more of
a I suppose on film because you really do have
to and I do this anyway, but you really do
have to read your lighting.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Which gets us back to the story of how you
cocked it up. So basically it's all out.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
I was just basically so nervous with him because I
was meeting this guy who had spent time idolies and
listened to that.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
I couldn't hold the camera straight.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
I was just shaking, and the cameras shutter speed would
have not been on anything or over sixtieth for those
that know about shut of speed. So when they all
came back, they were all basically out of focus, other
than one one at the end was all right, which
is the one we used, because I must have gone, oh,
it's actually just.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Do it, I thought, because I remember when you've done
the job. And I said, oh, what's it like to
work with because it comes across as like a difficult
character in the press, and you said, no, actually he's
really nice. He's really nice. Because it was blurred and
I told him and he was like, do you want
to do him again?

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yeah, Well, basically I was smoking and I remember going outside,
so it was a bit bit different to that, But
we went outside and had a cigarette and I did
another role of film with him afterwards. Fine, So it
wasn't that I knew they were out of focus. I
just probably I mean going back a long time there,
but I was probably thinking I've probably just asked him
to stand.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I haven't.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
As a photography you have to get things out of people,
or you'd like to think you'd try, and I probably
didn't do that. I probably just went these look great
because you.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Because you're nervous.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
The reason I remember that story is because I'm like
a one man Cruisaid for pr for Ian Brown. So
when people say it looks like a bit of a
twap done it, I said, actually.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Neil, people assume he's a bit arrogant, but it was
really nice.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
He's honestly, really nice guy.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
And anyone else like that that you photographed over the years,
where maybe people have thought, oh, maybe not approachable, but
you've been very surprised how nice they are.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
To be honest, most people that I've worked with, I
always think it's how you set your standard or how
you set your stole, or whatever you want to say.
But when people come to the studio that that will
be working in you just try and make it enjoyable
for them, you know, you know, deep down do he
want to do it?

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Probably not.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Are they on a media you know all about that?
Are they on the media trailer? What are the promoting?
Have they done this three times today or not?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
But do you know what I find helps? Being northern,
honestly help.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Being nice and not not like forcing yourself onto them.
I'd always just say, look, we're just here, we just
I just want to make nice pictures. All I want
to do is make nice difficult. I don't want anything.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Because of where we grew up in Yorkshire. I swear
it's our demeanor and our soft voices. Forgot what you said?
We were having this. We're having this conversation on the
way up because Tom, Tom runs businesses. It's some of
the businesses quite powerful. Important people use his products. But

(12:00):
Tom's business partner is a little bit more timid and
a little bit more shy of approaching these people. But Tom,
because of his demeanor, is welcoming voice. Will always go
to these people who are like you know, people who
are stiff necks and not really approachable, and immediately they
break down like I've had it before, like when I
went to that Man's City game. We've spoken about the

(12:22):
podcast before and I met Nor Gallagher immediately as God
was down because I was talking about Bradford playing Man
City and then nineties and stuff, and he was just
talking to me like a normal Obviously, in my head
I'm thinking, oh, I got talking to Hi about Wonderwall.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Like that, But That'skis and all that, that's what he
wants to talk about. And I think the same with
anyone who's famous, is they are just successful versions.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
I was trying really hard to act like it was
just a normal blow normal people. They're not born any different.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
You were in your Instagram out early and I'm like,
oh my god, Forrell Williams, like some of these people
are Insalely Thames, Yeah, have you anyone that's been so
famous that you haven't have been a bit like what Fred? Like?

Speaker 3 (13:05):
Yeah, nice enough, I suppose. I mean I've photographed for
a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
He just he's very.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
Quiet.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
He's quiet, and he knows what he wants to do
and he knows.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
What he does.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I think that, you know, for an outside that we
kind of think, oh you look at your Instagram. You've
worked with all these incredible people and you think his
mates with all them now yeah, no, no, that's just
not how the profession works as amazing as obviously these people.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yeah, it's great for in terms of profile for me,
but yeah, you don't go very rarely do you go.
And obviously I did with with Sabian. I went on
to become you know, with them a lot. Yeah, and
we're very close friends.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
Which was the one which cappiltied your sort of into
doing loads of celebs, which was the first one where
it was like, right, this is grew up a lot
of doors for me.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
Did not work like that for you.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
My kind of path, if you like, has been I've
been very very lucky and in terms of like my
first serious gig, So if I say commercial gig, what
I mean is the first time someone paid me to work,
as opposed to me shooting for free, which happens a
lot at the start when you're photographing for magazines and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
You give them the time and they give course, they
give you the exposure.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
But I got a job for Nike and as part
of that job we had there was a musician called
Jame and another musician called James of Bell from Who's Uncle.
I don't know if you know Uncle DJ brilliant and
I was hugely into them as well at UNI. So
I was kind of like, oh, I'm just I just
photographed celebrities now, Like That's how I kind of thought.

(14:41):
And then you get more and more opportunities like that.
But I'm not a celebrity. There are people out there
who are specifically celebrities.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, it's hard to make that because when it was
reading that you're not you work, you're working with brands.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, I do a lot.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
I work a lot with there's a certain style that you.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
Yeah, I was going to say, because you say a
look there, but you've got to there's something going on
in your head that is different to like the likes
of Tom and I for instance, who couldn't take a
good foot unless it's lucky, like you see a sunset
when you're all again, I'm an incredible photographer. Whereas you've
got stuff like on your on your Instagram that I

(15:17):
wanted to ask you about to try and tap into
what is going on in your head when you do this,
because it fascinates me and I remember first thinking this
when you did a kit launch photography for Bradford City
and it stood out like a sore thumb because normally
it's like hang it in the changing room, take a picture,
get it on the website, and you've don't like you've
folded it over boxes. You've done it at weird angles.

(15:39):
You'd folded the shirt a sharp angles. How is what
is going on in your nogging? Well, to be honest
with that, when my brother did it, but you told them,
do you tell everyone you No?

Speaker 3 (15:50):
I think we said the chimp start. It was a
chimp store, a right, and I was associated with chimp store.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
But my brother actually did we tap into the same thing.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Then it was brilliant that though there is really any
other brother, brilliant.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah, sit on the exact same vein on your Instagram
and I remember you personally and it's a while ago now,
but you've got like these like Stormtrooper figure in shooting
an egg okay, and their miniature little figures and you've
set these scenes. What what is what is that?

Speaker 3 (16:28):
Why?

Speaker 1 (16:29):
Why? That's also my brother?

Speaker 3 (16:31):
It's on your Instagram next week?

Speaker 1 (16:36):
You're him something like that? I used to but they work,
they're visually appealing to where I want to stop and
look at it, and I'm fascinated by why you've done
it and the things you do with the miniature figures.
I would never dawn on me, or I don't. I
don't think the dawn on anyone.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
I think that just comes through play, and that's something
that I still play now.

Speaker 1 (16:56):
I'm still like, do you play with toys? Still play
the toys? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:59):
I love play.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
Like I think that just comes through I am quite
I don't think I'm that mature of a man.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
I struggled to call myself.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
I definitely would call myself a boy or a lady,
and I think it just comes through through that.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Or do you think men a different? We've spoken about
this before Tom and I, but do you think men
are different now because someone's on your age in the fifties,
where's a shirt and tied to do the gardening? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (17:28):
Yeah, I think. I don't really try answer that smartly,
but I definitely unless all forty year old men feel
the same as men, I'm like, I can't possibly be forty.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
I hate growing up, me growing up to go and
I still feel, Yeah, I don't feel I'm sure I.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
Still I still feel like it. But there are men
out there.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
I do know the men of forty year old and
you look like you are for you are. You would
come into my see toys everywhere and be like, wow,
is he okay?

Speaker 1 (18:05):
Is this an institute? Happened there? Do you think? Do
you think though that that you know the not lose?
Is it in ambitions? Like you're still It's almost like yeah,
I mean that you've refused to refuse to grow. Society

(18:27):
says you should be. I'm definitely not that person. No,
but if you were, your photography wouldn't look the way
it does. Experiment and try things.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
Perhaps it would be a PHOTOGRAPHI because being never growing up,
you keep being creative and wanting to be creative.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
Well yeah we're taking photos. You do want to keep
being creative. But things like that with those little Star
Wars characters one, there are times when I just don't
want to sit watching TV. So I remember shooting them.
I shot them all in my flat, and you just
I didn't want to be watching TV. A weeks I
was like, what else can I do? Found them and

(19:03):
I was like, okay, I'll do But I when I
was at university, I actually used to be quite timid
in regards to photographing people.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
I used to like, how do you do it?

Speaker 2 (19:13):
Like?

Speaker 1 (19:14):
What do you talk about?

Speaker 3 (19:15):
So one of my projects, well, in fact, if fair
few of my projects, I used to buy action figures
and I photographed them in scenarios and then I took
that to all different things.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
It's like a psychologist.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
Well, I did dolls. I did a dolls house, scenes
in the dolls house once for I think it was
for River Island whilst we were at university, and the
project handed in to university were all different. If you
get into action figures, you can get really detailed kind
of you know, we're not just talking about Marvel. You
can get like Action Man, for example, but on a

(19:52):
different I can't remember the brands of them now, but
they're even more detailed, and they come with either so
you can actually start to get them looking very authentic.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Question if it's a toy or if it's I've seen
on YouTube people making these realistic looking scenes with these Yeah,
these action figures. But I love that. I love I
love train sets.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
I never had one, but I was fascinated when people
had set up a trail.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
I don't think well, it didn't know, but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, probably never asked one at Christmas and that was
the only time we got mery not I mean homby
where someone would set scene. It looks really like.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
A rabbit hole of YouTube videos.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
This stuff I'm still find incredible. Now. What I find
incredible on that is that there is a massive audience
for everything. Yeah, you might think it knows into that anymore.
Type it on YouTube videos with billions of views, and
it's people that still batting bake beans a huge audience
story exactly thereout raising any money.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
They're just love doing it, but sticking sticking to that
like experimental photography and being kind of brave with it.
And you know, you can attribute that to loads of
especially in the arts and creative work, like being brave
and being a bit childish's kind of a benefit really,
But when you're working with with someone like like David
Beckham or actually, you know what, it doesn't matter the celebrity.

(21:23):
I guess it maybe is more difficult when they're famous,
but or like Kobe for instance, you've got that kind
of well known in the industry picture where Kobe's looking
at the basketball. What are you saying to the to
the subject of the photograph to get them because you've
got you know, looking at basketball is not the weirdest
pose you've got posted on your Instagram. How are you
asking them to do that and getting that pose? And

(21:43):
are they not saying what?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yeah, sometimes you might say no, really maybe, but we
can use Kobe as an example if that makes it
easy for you. So so with with that particular shoot,
obviously I had to fly to.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Lax that's where that's where he was way for that.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, that was paid for your business class intege.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
It was the middle one, upper upper economy.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, it was nice.

Speaker 3 (22:12):
And I kept thinking on the plane to keep going
like why me, why are they flying me? Looking them
to LA to photograph, Like there must be in America,
nobody in America that's better than me, And surely, well
here is.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
But whatever.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
But so I already had been told that we'd have
twenty five minutes that'd be my allotted time slot. So
you're on a plane for I don't know where it is,
eight nine hours. So I actually sketched out I had
no means of going on to the internet, which you
can go on to Pinterest or whatever. You want to
do to start or books and start finding things. Okay,

(22:49):
I like this, So what can I do by being
inspired by this particular image? I had nothing to look
at to I was just drawing out what would I
like to see of this guy? That's all I could think.
So I sketched it all out. And then when he arrived,
I just was like, we've got you twenty five minutes.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Nice to meet you. By the way, I've sketched this.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
If we can hit this, it means I get eight
portraits of you in twenty five minutes, which his son going,
But it means a magazine will have a better spread
of images so they can use my pages, write more
words whatever. And he was just like, wow, I think
this video somewhere where he was like, what you drew that? No,
they were bad drawings as well, bless him, they were
terrible to look at. But yeah, and then he was

(23:28):
just like, yeah, sure, let's go.

Speaker 1 (23:30):
Let's go.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Because when he should the effort you'd put into the
perhaps it was right.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, he did say he'd never seen that. I was
I struggled to believe because it's only like storyboarding. So
if he's ever done an advert, he would have, he
would have seen that. He would have seen that, so
he was probably just been polite and he was a
very he.

Speaker 1 (23:45):
Was a very lovely guy. He was a very lovely guy.

Speaker 3 (23:47):
Yeah, and he came back into student at the end
to say by and shock everyone's hand who was in there,
so things like that.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Always has a big team, are you for that?

Speaker 2 (23:57):
Not really such as you.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Basically it was me and I because there was no budget.
So the budget was basically to get me to La
stay in the hotel shooting, and come home. So I
couldn't take any of the assistance that I have, so
we got someone out over there.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
So it was literally me and him. Never met him before.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
That's cooling it.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
That's what you're wanting it.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
That's what you want, you and him almost you don't
want to well, yeah you don't need obviously you need
help with resistance weather, but yeah, generally speaking, if you
want to get to the heart of celebrity get the
best image, you want to try and understand them, don't you.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:29):
I think I think that's that's a good way of
looking of putting it is. You don't want any barriers,
You just come in, sit down, and it does happen.
It's happened many times to me where that has happened,
and it's also happened in other ways where it's like
you've got to go through this guy to speak to
that girl, speak to this guy, and it's okay.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
It's just difficult. Do you get scared anymore? I mean,
now you've you've worked with I mean if David Beckham
arguably was the most famous man in the world at
one point. Yeah, I don't get scared anymore, no no
matter who it is or what the project, because I've
been scared.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
And when I left UNI, I did a book of
people I wanted to shoot, just like I think it's
called Manifesting.

Speaker 1 (25:13):
I didn't know it's called manifest at the time.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
But you still got the book.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
I probably have, Yeah, I probably have. I don't know
where it would be.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
But I don't really throw things away. Just in case
Solo every wants to go into photography.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
I've got what.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
I've got things sketched out, like how we light things
and just you know, in case. Obviously I didn't know
Solo was around ten years ago, but he might want
to he won't want to be a photographer.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Hopefully it'll be a plaster.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Just makes the Did you get all the people who
put in that book? Do you want to know?

Speaker 3 (25:41):
Harry Potter was in there and I photographed Rupert Greent,
run Weasley, So I was like, I'm having that, like bollocks,
I'm having that. He's not a bit part is it?
It's called Harry Potter book runs great? Is the comedy relief?

Speaker 1 (25:56):
He's and he again he was.

Speaker 3 (26:00):
He was a beautiful soul as well, really nice were
We ran an hour over with him and I'd asked
I had asked him to sign a book and he
just wrote on the book, hurry the up, want to
go home?

Speaker 1 (26:09):
And I was like, oh, it's quite nice. But he
let us go over an hour. Peter, did you speak
to about the relevance of Clara and Amber to you?
Do you know what?

Speaker 3 (26:18):
I don't know if I did twenty fourteen, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
Chelsea, No, it's not beat in twenty fifteen. It's also
been some sort of psych but I don't I don't
know if I don't know, if I did.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
I just remember being really he came with one one
lady who had been his agent. I think this is
right since he basically got that role. He hadn't swapped
tried to find someone who might be more prolific. I
don't know he was with this, and I always he's.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Not had the trajector that I don't know which you
could put down to the agent. It was wrapping on
David Lettiman.

Speaker 3 (27:02):
He was, he was I think, I don't actually know
what well, I don't know, but he's a lovely man
and I'm sure he's doing exactly where he wants to.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Be, suggesting if it changes agent, you could have done.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Well, it might have thought has probably occurred to it.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
But anyway, this manifest because I also, yeah, I just
had the list and and I suppose Ian Brown was
like number one.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
So that's how much I wanted to.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
And I think when you've been that nervous, you now
go into it and and I'm around it a little
bit more now, so I do see fame more than
I saw fit, and you just know that these people
are all just human beings, human successful human they're known
for something. Not all of them want to be known
for something that just happened to me. And then you're like, oh, well,

(27:55):
I don't need to be known. You don't need to
be nervous on need to be scared. It's just like,
come on, let's get going.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
I find that there's a level of fame and it's
not necessarily house In fact, it's not household names. But
there are people who think they're known, and they tend
to be the ones that aren't very nice people. Yeah,
you know, the ones that are massively famous. Like I
was saying, I mean, no gallagheres with that question. The
most famous.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Look someone like you know the Living Girls Aloud?

Speaker 1 (28:23):
Well, no, I think she's actually quite famous.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
But I'd say more like those people from Love Island.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, like Kimberly Why.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
She's from.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Kimberly Walsh girl you met or something. I always thought
she might be quite nice. I think she'd come across
quite nice. But it's the fame for having no talent,
it's the having I would struggle. I struggle with that
because I don't I think mentally I would struggle with that.

(28:59):
Like I feel like my ambition in life is to
have a job that I enjoy doing and be successful
at something i'm good at. That's what I want my
life to be. If I got famous because I got
my PEX out on a TV show where I was
humiliated and came out and then I was so worried
about how I looked all the time I killed. And

(29:19):
that's why they don't go beyond a few months of fame,
because how else can a TV exec or your agent
usually over them using that stuff that turns your teeth
why or something?

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yeah, and it's it's an intense short period of it.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
It's very it would be very intense for them. They
would be literally, well they are everywhere. You see them everywhere.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Do you ever get asked to do people? How would
you react to it?

Speaker 1 (29:41):
If you suppose first question, what's what's it? I do?
Turn certain things down? You?

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah, son of bits.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
More because I have to think what does my brand?

Speaker 2 (29:56):
If you like, yeah, massively?

Speaker 1 (29:59):
And if it's.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
Nothing and it's like, well, it's I'm fine for not
doing that, but you know, thanks for asking me. But
a lot of times I will try and think, you're
trying to think back to university where if you were
asked to do this person at Uni, what would you
have said? And if you'd have gone, well, I had
a run to the studio, and then I still think gone,

(30:22):
then I'll take it on. But yeah, sometimes it's just
it's not worth it for me, and it wouldn't be
worth it for them because he'd be like, it's not
a good match.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Is there anyone that you'd like to forget? You haven't?

Speaker 3 (30:33):
Oh yeah, many people. I wouldn't know who without having
to think about it.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
But there's not one person that is absolutely up there.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
Well you know, yeah, Brad Pitt, DiCaprio, you know, these
these kind of people, I would it's never going to happen,
I don't think. But those type of people, if I
could just get in the portrait session with them, that
I'd probably i'd witter less about my career to days.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
If I was it's fine, it's fine, I did. Why
what is it about them? Is it the Hollywood? I
think Hollywood.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
I've done a lot of sports people, musicians, but Hollywood's
Hollywood's a different level. I think when we were little,
Hollywood would have been footballers weren't really famous.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
They were famous, storry, but there might not have.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Been celebrities, whereas Hollywood produced celebrities. So I still see that,
and I suppose I still don't really see footballers. I
still see them as famous, but not celebrities.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Hollywood actually be good on camera.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Yeah, there'll be dreams to photograph anyway, because you can
just say, well, let's you know, yeah, because can you
this guy Daniel Brule, I don't I don't really know
what film is in, but he would be quite a
famous actor.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
He was he would we recognize would He's a German guy,
but he's done a lot of British film.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
And I said to him, okay, I just want to
put you into character and he's god. And he said
to me, do you know what I do? A really
good Mexican car salesman And he pulled his trousers up
and he did like his trousers weren't down by the way.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
He raised his trius up to a comedic level.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
And he proceeded to sell a car like a Mexican
catisman as I photographed it, and he was brilliant.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
So things like that character, Yes, it must be fascinating
to see somebody become something. Yeah, yeah, genuinely is. So
what about working with Withes massive band? You touring with them,
you've become friends with them now. But one thing that
always fascinates me, and I've been lucky to you know,

(32:54):
stand in the wings for some for bands and comedians even, Yeah,
and you see them become something on stage. Yeah, yeah,
but when you see someone who's a master of their
craft like that must be incredible to be I still.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
There's still times how how and why have I still
been allowed to be here? But I'm in awe of them,
and I I think that that helps for the work
I do for them. But also I was listening to
them on iPods at university their first album, so they'd
become like a band that I loved anyway, So again

(33:34):
I wasn't that's not manifesting, that's just I suppose listening
because that's what you do to musicians. But yeah, it's
incredible to what I mean I must have done. I
wouldn't even know it'll be over one hundred shows and
I still have the time of my life.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
How did you get into that?

Speaker 1 (33:53):
I was? I was.

Speaker 3 (33:56):
Give an opportunity to do what you call behind the scenes.
So there's a director I tour group who was directing
the music for video for them and said to me,
do you want to come and do some photographs of
it all happening? And I'm literally like yeah. So I
was very nervous that day and that basically led onto
them the band saying, do you want to do something?

(34:16):
On Wednesday? Were doing another music video? Do you want
to come and do some stills on that?

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah? I do?

Speaker 2 (34:24):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Well it was literally I had to go quite funny.
I was shooting a guy called Chipmunk, who was I think.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
He was a rapper, Chipmunk Chipmunk. I was shooting in
for the guy that does that Bonker song.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Though to be fair, I wouldn't know a Chipmunk Trank,
but he was quite a big deal. We were shooting
for a das and then I left the set of
that to go over to West London to photographs. So
in that text I was like, I've actually I'm actually
the man. Yeah, of course I'm going to shoot shooting Chipmunk.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Why wouldn't I be doing that?

Speaker 3 (35:00):
And then after that, after I calm down, I then
went on a tour with them, and I've never done
anything like that, so I was, you know, the only
time I've ever kind of googled how do you photograph
live music or become a documentary photographer or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
I had to actually google it.

Speaker 3 (35:17):
And I think I'm pretty sure at some points I've
asked Tom God, you know the you know Tom God brevity.
I've asked him about certain how.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Do you do this?

Speaker 3 (35:27):
Yeah, I definitely have just to try and better what
I do for them.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
And then fast forward. I mean I met there in
two thousands.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
It's almost ten ten, twenty twelve I met them, so
it's it's nearly twelve years and we're still working day.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Did you just build a good rapport with him? Yeah,
obviously the one Actually.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Yeah, and it must be therefore they couldn't be I
hope doing them a disservice, but there couldn't be any
more normal than they are.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
They just you do get that impression that when you
see just less the last.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
Yeah, that's exactly like yeah, yeah, I mean they're very
close friends now, and I think that comes with people
being similar to yourself.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
That's how you build friendships.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
So technically we get on sabing because we got I.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Mean, he definitely would I think me in search would
be great friends. I think probably. I don't want to
get that organized. It is.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
It is probably one of the hate seeing cool as
a four year old, when you say cools, it doesn't
sound you know what I mean. It's one of maybe
maybe they would impressives. Right, It's one of the most
impressive things. Is this sort of relationship you've had with
Sabian and how they trust you with on every single tour,
the first point of contact if they want a photograph
of anything, even over all these sledgs you've you've shot
over the years.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
What what is it though? Like I mean, I'm looking
at this from like a creative point of view. I
scroll through your Instagram. I instantly recognize your style. No
matter what it is that you photographing. I would know
how do you stumble on that? Or is it just
your personality seeping into that?

Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yeah, it's definitely personality even in but also it's something
you work out and I think when when you've been taught, Yeah, definitely,
and then it goes into your subconscious So the way
you take photographs, it'd be the way I don't know
to make it football, the way Ronaldo hits the ball.

(37:20):
He doesn't think how am I going to curl this football?
He just knows how. So your style and way of
working just becomes how you work. But then you can
overthink it, so then you've got Okay, I've got to
make sure that the colors and the tones are this way,
or I've got the lighting doing. But that's something you
kind of taught un when you learning photography. Is having

(37:42):
a style is the one thing that will sort of
set you apart from and that's basically different.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
It's just a lot different.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
I don't photograph out of respect, out of how much
I love them and respect them. I don't photograph any
other bands I would do. I would do portraits, but not. Yeah,
but because of how close I am with them. You
obviously you privy to all kinds of things, and I
wouldn't want them thinking, oh, we shouldn't do certain things,

(38:11):
or maybe we'll just have to act a bit differently
in from we don't want him telling Blossoms what we
were doing. Well, yeah, perhaps that so, yeah, a huge
amount of trust and you know again, but.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
This is again that goes back to the earlier point
about building relationships and being a normal person and being
because that will then come across in whatever it is
that you're producing, whether it's a podcast like this or
whether it's photographs, Because if the person you're speaking to
is famous and they're guarded, then their walls will never
come down, and the product that you get out of

(38:46):
them will never be as well.

Speaker 3 (38:47):
It just you essentially get the same product if you
like as the next photographer. If they were always going
to be guarded and was up and I only look
to the left and I can only it doesn't make
for you get that.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
You do get people that are very difficult to work with,
but you just get past it and and don't maybe show.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
That work having a bad day.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
They also they also and I'm more in tune with
that now than I've ever been is people since becoming
a dad anyway, you realize how knackered you are, and
you think, God, is everyone just being knackered all the time.

Speaker 1 (39:25):
And I've just been like geriatric father. I'm an older dad.
I would definitely say, I am well, actually that's the
correct term. Y a lady has a baby over is
it like it's a geriatric pregn that medical. I don't
want to look down on the n h S.

Speaker 3 (39:54):
Geriatric dad. I would put myself in a well, I
don't know if it's more fortunate or less watch it
anyone else. I can only say what my suggestion is.
But Days is younger than I am by twelve years,
so so she copes with tiredness and stress in a

(40:17):
lot different way to what I could better.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
And that might just be.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
In instinct. I'm not sure, but she takes a lot
of the load. I would say that I have found
it difficult. I have because not for forty years, but
let's say thirty. So say you're conscious of your being
at ten years old. I have been selfish for thirty
years with my time, whether I want to be selfish

(40:47):
or not, I've not known any other way of being.
And then suddenly at three am, some lads like, well,
I need a drink and you're going to.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Have to get it, and you're like, well, I don't
want I just want to sleep.

Speaker 2 (41:02):
It's exactly, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
So you you have to relearn are.

Speaker 2 (41:05):
You quite selfish person? Because I think I am in
a way.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
I was just gonna say, I remember that feeling I
hearing a baby crying in the middle of the night
and thinking this can't be my problem.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
So I would I wait for Rabbi. I used to
wait for Rabby. I'm like, is she movie an air
of relief for get over me? And I think a
lot of that.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
I think maybe you're right, Although I have I have
I do. Get up made to me that I just
go get the bottle and then daisil.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
You've got to try and share it out, Just.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Try and share it. I think I used to love it.
I mean, in a contrary to what Tom saying, I
used to quite like getting up and preparing the milk
or whatever I used to. I don't think I did
like that. I don't think I did learn. I think
once I got into the routine. I think initially because
I was like a child, Yeah, I was like twenty
you're an adolescent. Yeah, i'd struggle at twenty two. Yeah,

(41:57):
I think it was a shock at first. Yeah, I did.
And you're right, I think it was much easier for
me to handle the tiders because I was young and yeah,
and I'm not I'm not saying young people.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Just constantly bouncing anyway replemished cooker, but I think they do.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
I think naturally you've just when you're younger. Yeah, I
can speak as an older I can. It's harder to
replenish now. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
I think if you like, if you're not a morning person,
and when I see you, like you need to sleep easy.
Incredibly out of three.

Speaker 1 (42:23):
Ocrops, see I get I honest sleep for like five
six hours anyway.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
So I was I would get up at eleven if
I weren't if I want you in, or if I
if I had nothing to deal with office base, I'd
sit in bed till eleven. In fact, i'd try and
get to to a sandwich in bed. And I remember
being I remember being in a flat in London when
I lived. I lived there and I did have said
sandwich in bed, and I questioned, like what am I

(42:48):
doing with my life? But then I went back through
what I'd done with my life and I was like, well,
if it's worked this far, then having the sandwich in
bed at.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
Twelve, you see, you see these very fine. I'm fine.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I see this get about five am for him doing
gym and and it's like and it's very very like
a perfect way of living in you know, this is
how you should do it. But everyone has the particular way.
And if you've been successful, and when I mean successful,
I don't mean money measuring.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
If it's work it, well, yeah, a.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Successful way and you're healthy, then why not the whole
gym thing? Kids, It's a more difficult the sandwich. It's
been up six hours, so lover.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
I don't like things like the gym because the gym
thing is just fashion. It's just it's just peer pressure.
I know, I know it's I know it's good for you.
Now everybody's doing it because it's peer pressure. I do
think like that. When I was at school, don't going
to the gym. Now people in my last year, they're
going to the gym.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
It's true because I was going to say, maybe it
did happen, but now we're forced to see what's happening
when you like it or not. If you were at
the gym and I follow you, I'm going to be
showing that you're at the gym.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
So yes, that's so. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (43:55):
But when as soon as you've raised that pot, I
don't remember many lads, maybe two lads.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
Went to the gym at school. That was it. If
someone said working out to me, my head goes to
muscle beach, yeah, Miami that yeah, you're say, I'm not
I'm not.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
I'm not into muscles really, never have been, never been
able to achieve them, and never never really want.

Speaker 1 (44:18):
I just can't see how you get from what I'm
at to then be muscling. I can't have a lot
of grass. There's a lot of graft. Yeah, I can't
see what the point is, especially if something's not going
to happen. If I'm not going to see results for
my efforts straight away, we never passed it. I think
now's the time.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
Wow, Okay, well your your single absolute bachelor over there.
In a way, I'm like my wife likes my body.

Speaker 1 (44:44):
My personality makes up for my muscles.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
I suppose, yeah, I think.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Well, I've never really asked last days after this if
she'd liked me to go to the gym and get torned.

Speaker 1 (44:59):
Football anymore. No, we did.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
We still had a five a side going five six
side going about a year ago. But honestly, when he
when I did become a dad, it was literally I
don't know as.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
Much as i'd want, even if I wanted to.

Speaker 3 (45:12):
I think there's also that level of I do feel
I would feel quite selfish.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
I'd go away a lot for work.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
Obviously working London, we lived miles away from, so I'm
away a lot. So then if I was then said
there's okay, and also every Thursday, I wouldn't. I wouldn't,
actually just wouldn't. It doesn't bother Tom. But Tom's are.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, when I was younger, I definitely.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
It's never bothered Tom. Tom Thomas played the same five
a side for thirty years he's played. He went away
for a week playing golf last week. I don't know
what he had say to me this morning. I'm really tired.
You know, last week took it out of me. You
were were having fun. It's missus is looking after the kids,
the business. It's wise. While you were away. It ripped
the bathroom outs getting a new bathroom.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
I didn't ask her to do it.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
She made her do it. Surprised she basically is a
nice surprise. I've done the graph.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, but but it's a lovely surprise. But she cut
her finger. She was clearly knacked, And I'm like, look,
I didn't ask you to do it.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Should be coming back from a fun weekend to this.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
She should be there waiting for me ready, you know,
full of energy, not cuts on your finger. No, I didn't,
You didn't.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
Steady back in the house was full of asbestos.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
That's true, found asbestos war basically Okay, oh god, hope
she hadn't touched that. But anyway, this is a really long,
long money story. The point I'm making is. Abby does
a hell of a lot for me, and she always,
always has done, been very very.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
You've got a very traditional i'd say kind of you does.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Nothing wrong with that. I don't make it that way.
I don't come in at it's five o'clock. Where's my
dinner should be on the table? Do you know what
I mean? I'm not. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
I don't think it's I think. I don't think it's bad.
I know, abbably seems perfect a bit unless there's things
I'm not seeing closed. No, I think.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
I think every relighip is different. I mean, I don't
know what your day's relationship. I don't if you was
a traditional or not. How you're bringing up so my
relationship Neil Chance go solo? How cool dropped in there yet? What?
What's the inspiration for solo?

Speaker 1 (47:09):
I'll get a guess there's there's just a very independent
boy too.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Obviously there's obviously hands solo. But also we're having one child, so.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
That was that pre planned?

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:25):
All right, yeah, that is. It's the coolest name. I
do like his name to be fair, and I think
because my name is not great Neil Neil, it's just
like I wish I wish I had something that matched
my personality and career.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
But solo and Neil, you do get I never thought
Neil Neil Neil was boring because you it's kind of
ironic in the industry you're working.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
Maybe, But when I see NEILU Hi am Neil, and
and it's like someone else who's got my name?

Speaker 1 (47:56):
And you know, what the hell it's all my do
I look like? Am I you? Your name doesn't define
It doesn't but it should.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
And Garrett, there's so many words out there to use
his names now, It's like why I find it really
mad that people.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
Kids Chris absolutely insane to me. It's my dad's name.

Speaker 3 (48:19):
I just can never imagine my dad being here's baby Chris.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
It doesn't sound right. Chris is probably fresh and you, well,
I think it's biblical. Yeah, I think like Michael John Yeah,
I think John. Yeah. They always I don't know if
he's the saying they still call their kids Chris and
Gareth John Well.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
That thing about they want to Gary Wathers, it's nineteen
ninety two.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
And because he being the sl As Surge did as
the SLP the youngest, Gary did a song about yeah
based on that fact, Yeah, imagine as many little Neils.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
There's no Neils.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
The best thing about my name is my love Gavin
and Stacey and the baby and Gavin Stacey has been called.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
So I like that. Okay, I'm fine those days to
call you baby Neil. I never So one thing I
do want to ask you about is that when I
was first cutting my teeth in the in the radio
journalistic industry, you were one of the first people I interviewed. Yeah,
and it was about a book. Right, Yeah, it's still
not been published, despite the fact on that you said

(49:27):
it was just a couple of months away. This is
about fifteen years. It was a long time ago that
the tattoo book.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
It was going to be called fourteen fifty nine, and
it was basically it was not good enough.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
That's the croak of it is, like anyway, it's crap.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
But I revisited it not so long ago with Soccer
Bible Football magazine, and I did a photograph more fans
with the towers, and and then I looked at that
I was like, Okay, I can see now why it
was a good idea to probably never go any further.
Maybe in like twenty years time.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Did they not say that on spot By?

Speaker 1 (50:05):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah they ran it. They ran it. They
ran it as I think ten. When I first pop
up on your Instagram stories, it wasn't that long. It
was it like a year ago something.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
I I probably re shared it a year ago, but
it was it was a little while ago.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
But I thought, finally, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
I mean I would still love to you know what,
I'd still love to. I know we didn't want to
talk about breforty, but I would still love to be
involved somehow or do something for that club, just because.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, we like that podcast.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Yeah yeah, I don't think I'll ever be And as
much as I'm not enjoying being a broad fan, and
I think it's harder now than it ever was because
now we're watching superstars every night on the TV.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
You literally, Premier League games.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
Are so good now, and then it's like, well, what
have we got to watch some lad who.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Might or might not make it? Yeah, exactly his parent club.

Speaker 3 (50:56):
You've got all these kids online, and it's just it
doesn't for me, it doesn't feel the same anymore. But
maybe because I'm older and you know, I'm thinking, all right,
Solo wants to get into football.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
Am I going to make him watch Bradford. I'm going
to say you choose that, and and that does reignite it,
that does if they get into it.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
Well, Teddy, because I've listened to you, I don't know
if you're to go yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
I'm starting to be very indifferent about going to watch. Yeah,
I at the bottom, at the bottom.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
I wonder if it's I'm going to put this out there,
I wonder if it's our fans that the problem massive.
I think it's our biggest strength of a fan base.
I also think our biggest weakness. There's so many of
us in that league. So the expectation on a lot
of ten thousand people, as an example, so high that
if anything happens, then they're just going to go against

(51:52):
you know, they're just going to Mitchie Smallwood got subbed
off and it's the loudest sarcastic cheer I've ever heard of. Pitch.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Just on that point, Bradford fans are bad. And I
did put a tweet out recently that said, you know,
the ownership has changed, the players have changed, the only
thing that hasn't changed a fan. Yeah, so we're the problem.
But what I will say this is through working in
sport and I work a lot on the A e
f L. Is that every every club, if you go
into any of their hashtag time safely we were talking

(52:21):
about people have their own bubbles. We're in this bubble.
We think Brafford there is no better team to support
than Brave. We've had highest loan, they're great fans. But
every club thinks that at from Rochdale a.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
Couple of exceptions, but also we were never a good
football team, so that that has to.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Come into I think it's our generation that's the problem
because we've seen the prem we've seen Cup breaths, we've
seen superad, the milk for the teat, but before before that,
I think that this impression that Bradford have been this global,
well known team before and it's always been shipped.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Well other than what was the first real obviously take
nineteen eleven out was it the McCall team get.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Going nearly nelely so that was and where where just
after five? But then they neily got promoted and they
lost like middles.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
But that's right, yeah, that is exactly what happened. Over
than that, we've never had any real success until Premier League.
Well ninety six, so going on to when we beat
Blackpool and then six, which is only ten years after that.
By the way, it's only ten years after the fire
at Vali Parade is ninety six, which.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Is mental to think about. And then this is even
more metal. Four years after ninety six we were in
the Premier League. That's no time.

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Well, you did the famous skit and I don't know
what you called yourself, but it made me left. I
still I saw it the other day where we went
in the center circle and pretending to Jeffrey.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Jeffrey Foreman.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
Well when he did that speech though, really actually I
remember my dad laughing. I remember believing that walking back
down Middling Road going dad was going to be in
the Premier League as a kid laughing.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
It can't lie he did it. But yeah, does your
dad still got to sity then?

Speaker 3 (54:14):
Less so now but he's still a Bradford fan. It
is your around Bradford and he probably sports Manchester United.
I think he does spot. I don't think he likes
football that much anymore. But he was a Manchester United
season ticket older for quite a few years when we
were growing up.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
So you don't make what you do with solo, then
he's going to make him with his own criticism.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
He's got he's got brad he's got the two Bradford
since he's been born, so he's been presenting.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
And he doesn't have any other football that reminds me. Neil,
we'll do this on air. I was going to ask
you off air, but I think this could be interesting
on the point. So every year I get Teddy the
Bradford City shirt with his name and age on it.
Ye done it since he was born. Yeah, and I
need some inspiration. Yeah, because A photographed A photographed the

(55:01):
shirts just playing like they're on a green background. But yeah,
I'm going to cut them out. Whatever, But what would
you do? What would you do?

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Here? We are we're could to go inside the mind
of a.

Speaker 3 (55:12):
I fold them into weird angles and get my brother's. Yeah,
I don't know because I would want to do that
as well of what you do.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
What I would have liked is if I don't know
if they have, but I would focus.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
On a number in the name. So if the number
of names had changed, you know, like the Premier.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
League number change lords, So I would I would probably
because you don't really see the shirt there.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
The back of the shirt's the worst shirt as well,
just photoshopped it.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
No, I would just I would literally fold them and
just concentraw so you can.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Just see them. Does it say Teddy or yeah? It
says Teddy every year apart from when he was eight
and he put his foot down and he didn't want
to be Teddy anymore because it was baby.

Speaker 3 (55:55):
So one of them says ted Okay, well that's all right.
That's a bit like Jimmy.

Speaker 1 (55:59):
For that was he was Jimmy and then he was
But yeah, I would.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Go on the numbers rather than the shirt. That's how
it sounds like too much.

Speaker 2 (56:08):
At least did mess up. So I started doing for
mine too. It's just classic me like yeah, and I
got his age run. So I went to the shop
and I'll go THEO and Nico and they're all those
two years apart, and this one year I give, I
give him the presents were going at Christmas, and so
there was a and Nico was six, nic was five
or seven, so theos right, and Nika went, that's not

(56:32):
my age and I and I was like what the.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
Actually that is terrible.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
See you should have just missed years.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
No, he needed to be Instinctively, I got bit. But
when I got it, when I got it, you were
as long as he was. That's why I liked you best.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
But then these years I am bought. I'm like, I'm
just so he is the most anal. You've got some
more ceding it with this definitely.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Part of my DH.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
It's a good I would have loved to have had that, AHD.
Just the shirt you can leave you can have.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
My dad never did it for me.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
That's why they do it because I didn't have it
as a kid. You know, they grew up not loads
of money in the house and stuff like that. Now
I can afford it.

Speaker 3 (57:18):
I think that's a problem of how we are now anyway. Right,
you do stuff based on what you might not have done.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
But do you think people have always been like that.

Speaker 3 (57:27):
I was told by a lad at school that his
only ambition in life, so he's quite profound for someone
doing his jesus Is was to better what his parents
had done so he could have more than I'd never
heard that before, and I was like, oh, I still can.
I can put myself back at that dinner table when
he said it, And I still think like that is

(57:50):
that I don't want to better them and make out
that they weren't great, but financially I would like to
to earn more than them so we can be more
comfortable do more because.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
You know, I heard someone say once that they come
and it might have been Adam Boston or something, but
there comes a point where the child is better than
the adult, or you know what, I'm better the adult.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
I think I think it might be And Jason Manford
also says a similar thing to that, where your kid
then is better than you and then becomes more middle
class than you and suddenly like I've got no connection
to my kid.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
But that's that's successful as a parent. Yea, you've done
what you needed to know.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
We're parents here like worked with what they had and
they brought us up.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Actually really well, yeah, I'm it's saying for you exactly.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
I wouldn't have I wouldn't be there to get too deep,
but for everything we didn't have. My dad gave me
the opportunity to go to university and study, and.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
You know, so we didn't. I didn't. I couldn't just
go Can I have a new toy?

Speaker 3 (58:51):
And I would? It was always if I wanted a
new football shirt. Okay, don't get out all season at
cricket and you can. So I had to work for it.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
I feel like that is generational, though, I think that
that might be genera kids that I knew that I
went to. Nobody got what they wanted when they asked
for it, but surely the Christmas now, right, well, this
is what I'm saying. I'm bad at that. I'm terrible.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
But you shouldn't. You shouldn't. You're trying. You should trying
to avoid spoiling your kids, because that is spoiling your kids.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
Well, it's exactly what spoil means, right, If you give
them too much, you're spoiling them.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Well, there's too much sugar in the batter.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
Spot.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Whereas I I definitely we did go to Smith's the
other day, now as I think we spent fifty quin. Now,
I just remember SAT days that it's not bloody Christmas
like fifty fourteen.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
Ninety nine tops. That's why we're coming in. There is
a bit of me though that also I want to
get him what he wants because I didn't get it.
And it's not because I'm a parent, It's because I
think it was generational. You had one biscuit pass for those.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
Biscuits you could only we could have too, but only
after tea. Yeah exactly, I couldn't just wander into the.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Biscuits.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
We've got his great a sweet cupboard and a sweet.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Draw I think. I think that's down to where the sweets.
I remember the hype of getting a multi bag of christ.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
It is.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Yeah, yeah, maybe it must be generational because well feeling
the same thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
When the Pace five came out, Teddy had it, and
when the new City shirt comes out he don't work
for his birthday, I go and get it. Yeah, yeah,
because that's what I would have wanted as a kid.
And maybe a lot of that is me just getting
because I I want to fulfill myself.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I'm a bit like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
Maybe that's selfish.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
I'm not like you, so you all like you want
to I am, and so I'm a bit more like
I instinctly think like my dad. So if the boys say, oh,
we were asking for a new console for Christmas, I'm
immediately looking on Facebook Marketplace for second and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
I don't think that's bad. I got a second hand
Commodore sixty four one Christmas.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Who was wrapped to the blanket.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
I just remember changing my mind close Christmas because Amiaga
was the actual new his best one and a kid
at school, Julian McBride he was getting an Amiga, so
I said, Dad, have changed my mind wanting Amiga, and
I can remember my dad said, no, no, no, you don't
you know obviously bought that from someone at work or somewhere,
and I and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
It had been I reckon. I'm pretty sure that consoles
I got when I was a kid, other than the
PlayStation were second and or being my dad's mate at
work was selling it's the same thing, the same, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
For a PlayStation. And I got bought a five DVD changer.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
That's not the same, that's not the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
Got five. I said, when did you ever need five DVDs?

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
That's some music?

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Is it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
One of my biggest a marathon, One of my biggest
regrets is when I was about seventeen, my parents got
me a DVD play for Christmas and I lost it.
I was like, you lost the dv but no, I lost.
I lost.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Kicked off.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
I did like, do you know me so little? That
all you could think of was to get me a DVD.
Don't let's go back. What was that going back twenty
four years, forty one, forty one. I'm thirty six seven
next week.

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
When you threw him back in the face, that's what.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
You were saying.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
It would have been, well, could you have any bedroom DVD?

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Nob I already had a DVD player, So it was
just like now, as an adult, I appreciate seventeen difficult
because he's got the games console job. He's kind of
getting his own stuff. He's difficult to know what to
get him. Just getting a DVD player? Yeah, do you
think it was a bit like I kicked off and
I regret it all the time. Every Christmas he comes

(01:02:40):
back up and I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:02:40):
Like, and don't kicked off.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
My parents probably don't even remember.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
No, it's mad that that how that would affect you
differently to the just be like just.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Despite a little.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
Do you know what I used to call biscuits was
probably Solo's age, Dick Dick. I used to walk around
going dick Dick, I want to dick dick, And you
know what never got corrected.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
It's funny. I don't know if you should we've been
thinking about this?

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Is that when he can't say the words, probably do
he correct him or do we just let him think?

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
This is where you overthink? Do you let him think
he's got it right?

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Was dinosaurs? Is he pronouncing that like he goes? That's
quite good.

Speaker 3 (01:03:35):
He sees them, you see them, So when he sees them,
I think, mister, I think you leave them to it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Yeah, just because no kid gets an adult and not knowing
how to wipe the Yeah, it's definitely true.

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Well, my my brother's daughter who teaches them that name
teacher we were talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
I don't remember anyone teaching about your toilet pepper fold
of scrunge moist wipe.

Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
I know you most wipe from the front, three from
the back. I know you do that because that was
on the last one.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
So very uncomfortable when you said, I know you must
type that. Maybe I do say too much. He's definitely
on the for that. Suppose, Yeah, and I do an
initial few white, an initial few passes scrach is mad
but I used to do that when I was younger. Definitely,
but I do a couple of passes with folding the

(01:04:26):
initial clearance and then and then polish with the polish. Mister,
she well, I like, I do think it's good. It's
just it's it's more things to buy to throw away,
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Yeah, well this is I don't agree with wet wipes,
tor paper's not cheap. My wife's like forty pence for
having the conversation with somebody this week, I will say
it is. And you know what they do. They stand up.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Like a toddler, like a toddler.

Speaker 2 (01:04:54):
And when we.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
When I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Was and also he scrunches, scratches, and he stands up.
So I said to him.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
That guy's a mess. He's a mess.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
So I literally we were telling him our techniques or
three of the crusation and he was mind blown. How
do you do it? Bent over? But we just sat
on the seat.

Speaker 1 (01:05:16):
I had to demonstrate.

Speaker 2 (01:05:18):
It was like like he'p he literally he finishes, stands
up like that, you know, like bun chis together.

Speaker 1 (01:05:28):
I genuinely think that's what. It's one of those things
that you don't know you're doing it wrong until someone
says I.

Speaker 2 (01:05:36):
And he did actually go white paths, Yeah, and he
couldn't get it. He couldn't get on with the front thing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
I think that's wrong. You shouldn't be wiping.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
We actually boiled it down. There's four techniques. Can wipe
from the front white, from the back, but you can
wipe from the back, forward to back, back to forward,
right from the front back to forward, far to back,
so you can wipe from both sides.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
But we're getting too much into the menu shave. That
is a difficult forward. Have you done forward forward to back? Yeah?
That is what you have to have long arms for that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
No, so you just push.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
There is a live demonstration going conversations that way, won't
you know? I go in start at the going. I'm going.
I think wiping towards you generals is a bad idea.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
Yeah, no, but there's a there's the gooch there which
stops it. The gous side the ship storage area.

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Is that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
The side creates a wall.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Anything, we've got it wrong. We should be like, have
we gone from the creative conversation?

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
I do want to talk about bilingual because my brother,
because you were talking about we're talking about dinosaur and
you don't correct the words. Sorry, I distracted, distracted by
the tour top. My brother's daughter, my niece, she her
mum's Spanish dad's English live in Australia, they're bringing up
to speak English and Spanish and it is mental And

(01:06:56):
at first I'm like, oh bloody typical like narrow my
did not Yorman. I said, you're going to confuse the girl.
She's to speak either, which is going to go a mute. Honestly,
it is seen some videos. It's weird. It's like she'll
just go from Yorkshire to Spanish in like the.

Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
Should be a very kid.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
She's speaking all right, well about my two kids are clever.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
But there's something about being able to speak to because
it unlocks something else in your brain, being able to
speak two languages.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
She only speaks Spanish to her and he speaks English
to her. It's weird. It I'd be like, I'd be
like the more dominant one to try and make her
dream in English.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
That opens the doors on her having a favorite parent
because she like English.

Speaker 3 (01:07:41):
If you're dream in English anyway, I do you just
know you understand what's being said, So that could be Spanish.

Speaker 2 (01:07:52):
Talk.

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
Yeah, you dreaming language, you understand what's being said. But
what accent to deaf people think?

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
I guess that would that would come down to if
there born deaf.

Speaker 1 (01:08:09):
Yeah, when you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Think you say in your head. If I see someone
follow ago, what the hell fire? Say that head?

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
Yeah? But what if they've never said anything? I never
heard anything? What are they saying in their head?

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Thoughts? Actually? What how do deaf people think?

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
You have to get someone on who's death might quite difficult.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Neil to ask, I don't think the listeners are going
to be deaf?

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
Well, no, you can transcribe these days we don't, but
you can, oh do?

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Come on you? I think that my mum was brought
up in a deaf and mute household, or was it
my grandma one of them?

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Is that why you're so loud?

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
So loud? Well, my grandma don't know why. My grandmother,
my grandma's mum and dad were death. So she brought
up in a silent household, so to speak. So they
don't have radio, and she can listful, she can sign language.
But you know it's now, my grandma, things have become
so bent that sign language is not under stood anymore.

(01:09:09):
Fingers are like that, so she's like, go, just transcribed
to translate. It's like me going talking like going, Neil.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Yeah, this word's there, but.

Speaker 2 (01:09:22):
You're not getting them.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
The loss of a sense is fascinating in it. Oh yeah,
it's scary. Yeah. It has to be the well for
a photographer to lose. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Have your eyes ensured?

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
I don't actually could you do that?

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
I'm laughing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:39):
Do you think you could function as a blind photographer?
I think there are blind photographers. What there are blind,
but they will never know the beauty of their own art.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
No, but they could be told it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
I think we could be told that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
I'd have to look into that to know that factory,
but I think they can be this. It can be
described back to them and then they build.

Speaker 1 (01:09:57):
Up real Yeah. Well the times go come, isn't it
where you can point your iPhone at something and it
will say sunset in MAJORCA? You know big building? Yep,
Well is also a big building I was trying to
think of. You mean you mean it will read it out? Yeah? Yeah,
oh yeah, I mean if you talk for it might

(01:10:19):
say you're a f point well whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
Those an element of those guys with your war kinds
waiting for naked woman. But also they've got to understand
that what a building looks like, aren't they? And we
are going to get deep again now because.

Speaker 1 (01:10:32):
If they're bob you've never seen anything.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
The gold field aren't there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:37):
But then if it does fascinate me, because how do
they if they're feeling a square?

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
How the one thing feeling the square? Just seeing what
a square?

Speaker 3 (01:10:47):
Yeah, objective and their brains still having to tell them
this is a square.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
If you've lost the sense, you are going to be clever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
I mean, I think we describe what's red? Describe bread
to me, Lord, I've never seen blood. I'm blind, what
is red?

Speaker 3 (01:11:03):
I think what should happen as well? You know what's
called making this instantly google?

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
So if someone says to you, when was Harrison Fordborne?
Your head will just google it? Yeah, it will be
in your brain.

Speaker 3 (01:11:21):
Well, maybe he should spend his time trying to make
something for people people, Yeah, but not actually be something useful.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
And you've seen those videos of people where you can
have a it a cocklear putting on something and then
you can hear and then oh my god, I can
hear everything.

Speaker 2 (01:11:40):
Technology for making black.

Speaker 1 (01:11:43):
Well, also, what do you have to do? Just buy?

Speaker 3 (01:11:45):
If you're deaf, you just by past the ear drum?
Is that the ear drum caused just to give your
brain the signal? So she sames your eyes, two cameras if.

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
You bypass them with something else to your brain, and.

Speaker 2 (01:11:58):
You couldagine that for the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:12:02):
I can't imagine. It's not that simple. It can't. Well no,
it can't because you've got to get into But they
are just signals. Are just electrical signals being sent.

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
To These are only two lenses. You don't actually you
see with your brain right. Your eyes are just the vessel.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
We've gone back to lenses.

Speaker 1 (01:12:18):
Conversation fragile and exposed. Your eyes.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Oh yeah, not really, everything's fragile and exposed.

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
That's also true. I'm feeling very exposed, Neil. It's it's
been amazing to talk to you. One thing I did
I wanted to speak to you about because you're like
a cool guy and you know, style and stuff is
I was watching I just got I don't know, I

(01:12:53):
get these weird urges sometimes, like watching a song from
when I was younger, and I was watching n Sync
last night. Oh right, yeah, just like their music videos
and then they're absolutely terrible, But at the time I
don't remember thinking this is awful, and like the dance
routines were making me cringe like hell, like it's like God,
these are like men and like they danced. But the
thing that alarmed me is there are two people in

(01:13:15):
n SYNC who look for now which ones back then,
and I can't believe they passed for being in a
boy band video you watched is that it was about
like how your work now is awesome. We look at

(01:13:38):
it and think, fucking I wish I could do that.
How quickly does it change in like five years, like
you look back at your work and think that is awful.

Speaker 3 (01:13:45):
Yeah, that happens regularly, probably every year that the one
comes into play.

Speaker 1 (01:13:52):
But the thing about the two guys in the n
SYNC being thought it was a bye this conversation forget.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
That one was one's going to racing car driver. I
think it was Nick Carter and.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
Yeah, but so there's Nick Carter just in Timberlake, Yeah J.
I don't remember his surname. And then there's two other
guys who had like weird beards and stuff and they
looked older than the war No Nick Nick Cart was
Backstreet Boys and sink J and just intimerlate with because
he went he went solo for a bit.

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
She's had a good song.

Speaker 1 (01:14:28):
But there's the one guy who's like trying to go
to space now from it and sync. But then there
were two guys that had like go to weird.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
I don't know if what you're saying is that they
wouldn't suit now.

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
No, no, no, that was just irrelevant. I remember I
watched them sink and for those videos look bad now,
and then I remember that those two guys look for
it all.

Speaker 2 (01:14:47):
Just question, is he worried? No?

Speaker 1 (01:14:49):
I asked the other question changing the styles.

Speaker 3 (01:14:52):
It's I've always tried and sometimes failed, but always tried
to make my work be classic. So it doesn't age
because it's not what you're saying about ent sink and
a music video, for example, is that would have been
filmed to look good at the time because you're selling
a product.

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
At that time. So I've always tried to be classic.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
It does look classic. They've done it like if you
pulled them before from ten years ago, ten years ago,
won't it You're it doesn't look out of place.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
No minifigure things, yeah were twenty fifteen, all right, yeah,
and they look the beer is relevant now. But I
think a good example is Steven Spielberg films right are timeless.
They could have been made yesterday, some of them. I mean,
I know that the c GI bits on jossep Pat
look a bit sketchy. Now they're timeless, aren't they? How

(01:15:48):
do you hit that? How get that sweet spot where
I know you're trying to be classic, but there are
going to be things because you're a bit more experimental
where they look aged. Yeah, definitely will be, and I
think it's it's in photography and film, there'll be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
There will also be trends of colors and how they
work on your images and film festive, so that can
also age things as well, following trends, Yeah, because it
might be like at the minute, people really let's just
say everyone likes things really warm, so the tone should
all be really warm.

Speaker 1 (01:16:23):
So like when everyone's into your yours and now no
one's in yours.

Speaker 3 (01:16:26):
Or POGs, Yeah, and then you pull out your.

Speaker 1 (01:16:32):
Yeah it is, it's just still trends within. But that
does that not fascinate you? That that weird things that
are trending like your yours? How does that happen? How
do you How does mere cats become fashionable?

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
I find how did they become fashionable before social media?

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:16:46):
How did bogs become a thing that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Digital pets?

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
And I was going to I was I was going
to say that to you about like it will social
media and this new breed of content creators kill the
old action photographer eventually, you know, and disposable. So you'll
spend months creating a photography. You'll spend an hour on
a celebrity. You'll take ages for that one two photos

(01:17:12):
to be released where someone will make as equally as
popular content in five seconds film and the feet on
plant TikTok. So that must be frustrated.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
That is it's Weirdly a conversation, is not weird. We
have that conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
Quite a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
You release basically, now you release something, let's just say
you've exactly what you said.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
You've taken three months. Three months ago, you shot someone.

Speaker 3 (01:17:33):
It's taken three months to go through all the right things,
and then it's ready, you release it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:38):
It goes onto Instagram. Then it's lost. It's like he's thrown.

Speaker 3 (01:17:42):
Onto Instagram amid your photos of feet, your photos of
I don't know and sink and it's just all in there,
all a load of noise, and you've spent that's your work.
What you want to do, how you want to make
your money in your career and it's just a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
So that platform is it's difficult because.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
We kind of we we are the pioneers, if you like,
of that platform, because we were given it and when
we've taken it to where it is now as users,
and we define success on followers and like.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
But that is no longer how that.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
Platform defines Joseph, because people are still seeing your work.
People are less into double clicking, what do anything like it?
But I've seen it scow past.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
It like you don't follow a body of people's work anymore.
Like I'm I don't follow anybody on Instagram that I
don't know, but I still see and occasionally like videos
from random stream. I never think, oh that one guy
used to it.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Used to be like it used to be like that,
and obviously not everybody was on there, so now my
mum might be on there posting pictures from you know,
so it's it's now.

Speaker 1 (01:18:55):
I think of Instagram as basically the Internet. You can
shop through that. You can do everything you want through Instagram.

Speaker 3 (01:19:04):
You don't have to go onto Safari or whatever your in.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
You rarely do, like it's like newst All in these micro.

Speaker 3 (01:19:14):
I don't know where I think they have the place
to content creates and and they're not going to go away.
And I don't really think they should go away, but
it definitely leaves you though.

Speaker 1 (01:19:24):
It leads me exposed.

Speaker 2 (01:19:26):
Yeah, it means your products is less value. Yeah, potentially,
which because if they if they can contact a TikToker
okay and say, right, your style of video is you
walk around talking nonsense. I want you to do that,
but it's going to be celebrity there and you're gonna go, hey,
up for William, how you're doing. And then we're gonna
we're gonna use that video and that shoot for our
next time. Similar what about Nearly does a really good.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Those and he has more followers and he has more reach,
which means a professionals. Skilled professionals get bypassed. So my
mate works for a travel firm and they used to
pay you know if camera men they go over the
film the hotel or whatever, they create incredible videos. Now
they find who on YouTube is a traveler with the
most followers and give them a few thousand quid to

(01:20:10):
go and and the videos are rubbish. The quality is low.
It's all done on mobile phone.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
It's Yeah, sadly That's what comes with it is the
quality isn't necessarily always the same, although you know that
you can create great stuff on on phones, but yeah,
I suppose it. Just I do have to think five
years what am I doing? So you know, I do
have days where I plan to do other stuff. Okay,

(01:20:37):
so I'll get through this next couple of years because
you know I can see that work. We're already talking financially,
by the way, like just yeah, financially, get through the
next few years. That's going to work. And then what
do I do after that? Should I look at going
into something else? I don't know what that might photography? Podcast?
Do I do a podcast? I teach photography. I mean,

(01:20:58):
I've always wanted to teach ptography. But you know, you
might go into property, you might go.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
I don't know about TikTok to do something on that,
I've not no because I'm just too I've come across
old and that's the last thing I want. The thing
but the thing is with tok now it is becoming
a platform where you don't actually matter like how old
you are. What you're doing is becoming before I was dancing.

Speaker 1 (01:21:20):
I feel like we're the generation millennials, the generation that
everything now is geared towards. Yeah, Like I feel like
we're the generation the movies are made for, and you
know the fashion and this this reflects what you see
on social media, the fashion now the nineties have come
back around. That's because we're millennials. We're the ones. I

(01:21:42):
think it's quite strange when the Neil's probably not like
seventy five.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
Someone set eighty one, eighty three, then eighty six, eighty six, Yeah, eighty.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Three when millennials starts. But you're a millennial, you've been
touched by.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
The millennial Brooks, I am, I'd be a z gen Z.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Gen Z, You're not gen Z?

Speaker 2 (01:22:03):
Are you lucky?

Speaker 1 (01:22:04):
I don't think so. Gen Z is like the like
Jumper were in well to jump away millennial then.

Speaker 3 (01:22:11):
But I do when I see people now dressed how
we essentially would have dressed. Yes, it's like you just
go back and like I remember my dad saying this
to me. We used to wear flares, like dad, Yeah,
because nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
Remember when there was a huge aber ob session in
like the late nineties on two thousand TV. But the
songs wherever people wearing belbottom jeans. Again, it goes around.
It definitely knows.

Speaker 3 (01:22:38):
This is the first time it's been apparent for me though,
with with the baggy of trousers and the chunky train.
It just basic everything that I remember thinking was so cool,
probably when I was eighteen seventy, and it's now there.
Ye again, what parents would say is that I wish
I had a backdoor mycet.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
As pants.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Yeah, oh yeah, exactly that. So yeah, but it fascinates
with things like that. But did that happen in tudor times? Well,
I think I weirdly think like that as well.

Speaker 3 (01:23:11):
It was like, did they just carry on their thing
until someone went, actually, you've had it wrong for fifty years.
So but one thing I don't know if it happened
in the fifties when men were working that you said
earlier in.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
The Guard fashion you walk close to practical.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Practical Yeah, I mean has been there, but not now.
I feel like there are paintings for hundreds of years
in like the fourteen fifteen hundreds everyone's just wearing the
same ship. Yeah yeah, it's true, that's hundreds of years,
whereas now fashion changes every couple of years. Yeah. Yeah,
Well there's the one and we'll think we'll finish on this.
There's one enduring fashion item that rarely it changes ever

(01:23:46):
so slightly, but the suit.

Speaker 2 (01:23:49):
The suit.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
When the suit came out, the suit, the shirt and
tie with the brogues, it's almost as if it's like, right,
that's nailed and that'll be the same forever. The suit
is the fashion of Clive of Radio. I think so,
but it's the Internet TV radio endures. The difference is
is you just the fit sometimes slim suits, true, but

(01:24:12):
the style is always the lapel, the shirt because when
I when you really think about a shirt and tie,
like what the fuck is that tied? But what an outfit? Like?

Speaker 2 (01:24:24):
If you ever want to shut and tie.

Speaker 1 (01:24:27):
I'll go back to breforty.

Speaker 3 (01:24:28):
I did my work experience at Breferty, came in there
and I didn't have any obviously.

Speaker 1 (01:24:34):
So I borrowed some of my dad's ski and Paul Juwell.

Speaker 3 (01:24:38):
Asked me if I got dressed in the dark, I
was going because I was like, I've put this together quite.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
Well, I think, and I'll tell you the outfits. I
remember it brown.

Speaker 3 (01:24:49):
Do you know brands like London Brand? My loafers were
London Brace and they were brown. My trousers were pinstriped
brown silk trousers. I had a purple shirt and a
green tile.

Speaker 1 (01:25:05):
Basically very similar to and everything was bagging. The shirt
was back, it wasn't fit. It was bagging.

Speaker 3 (01:25:12):
Oh, and I thought, well, I've don't all right there.
I've gone through the best of my dad's terrible selection
of stuff. And yeah, first question, wow, have you got
dressed and die? And obviously back then Paul J was
a I think he managed us when I was like, yeah,
l nineties, I was doing it the sixth form version
of work experience.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
So yeah, twenty twenty three, four years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
Yeah, but I mean I didn't quite have a blazer on,
but it was my It was almost a suit.

Speaker 1 (01:25:41):
But it just fascinates me that the suit is the same. Yeah, essentially,
you're right, because I watched like free it really changed.
So that's another thing.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
Like the materials.

Speaker 1 (01:25:50):
If you go through fashion, materials changed.

Speaker 3 (01:25:52):
You've got denim, then you've got track is, then you've
got slack whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
But a suit is they don't really do a technical suit.
We've made out of.

Speaker 2 (01:26:01):
Under arm.

Speaker 1 (01:26:03):
Where they could the sports suit, but high street fashion
brands have tried to do spins on suits just make
like it'll be a blazer, but it looks like it's
made out of like chunky.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Knit something like that, or a T shirt with a
pretty tie.

Speaker 1 (01:26:20):
But the style, the shirt and tie and this, I
don't know. I just watching Frasier last night thinking about that. Like,
the suit's massive, but it's still essentially the same mad Men.
The suits and mad Men, they're the same style. Now
that's a classic item. Then on that note, I mean
someone who's listening to this that is an absolute mind.

Speaker 2 (01:26:43):
Ed anything out of this would be very surprised.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
They'll get some out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:26:45):
But anyway, well, thank you little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:26:47):
I really appreciate it as an avid listener.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Actually, we're not just gonna get listeners on like it
sounds like really bad.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
I am a fan of your I was, I was
a fan of brand. It would be if it was on.
But I genuinely listened to mynner to get me to sleep. Son,
what was that? That's not true. I listened on the
train in full, and you've got my own divided attention.
And on that note,