Christopher Judge (Kratos, Tealc)

The God of War himself, Christopher Judge joins Jim this week to discuss his time on Stargate, transitioning to voice-acting for Kratos, his love of golf and more.

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Episode Transcript

(00:01):
How you doing out there? It'sme Tigger and Dark Wayne Duck. It's
me Bunkers keep Bobcat. All right, y'all, is it rate your favorite
firefly you desire? Hold old knockGud. My name is Jim Cummings and
welcome to tune Gin. Ladies andgentlemen, Welcome back to tuned In with
Jim Comings today. Today, Ihope you're sitting down because we're copping a

(00:26):
squad. We have none other thanthe world famous Chris Judge. He is
here. He has flown in onhis tilt machine. And yes he is
the god of war, so pleasedon't mess with him. Christopher Judge God,
come on down. Well, welcomeman. It's great to have you.

(00:46):
We're neighbors, but other than that, we have nothing in common.
Well you know we have to goaround the world actually say, well,
that's that is true. Yeah,but we probably live about five miles apart.
Yea, I'm up here. Oneof my favorite golf courses is right
on the corner. Oh okay,life is good. Life is good.

(01:07):
Well, now I know what you'redoing after the after the show. You
won't be home for dinner never never, Okay, you touching that one.
But I'm glad you're here. I'mglad you're here. No, there was
nothing, there was nothing, Therewas no conspiracy there. I just yeah,
dinner. Oh damn, well,I'll eat it for you. How

(01:30):
do you stay so big not eating? You know? I honestly I don't
know. I really don't know.It's I've got into this fasting deals bosting
thing, so I fast sixteen hoursof the day and I can eat eight
hours of the day and just mybody really likes it. Yeah, yeah,

(01:53):
yeah, well good for you.Yeah, well you're doing it.
Man. Oh thank you look great. That's astonishing. I'm going to try
that. It wouldn't matter if Idid. Well, listen, some congratulations
are in order to you, youngman. I'll tell you what I saw
you over there man handling al pacino. That that's wrong with that? Well,
you know, I've got you know, I've always watched award shows and

(02:16):
go so corny, like why wouldyou be like so excited, like you
know you're there, what Peter whatever. But there's like legendary people who've always
been legendary, who you've always wantedto meet, regardless of the context.
And uh, it was just oneof those moments where I just got that's

(02:39):
awful. Sure well you you yeah, well you were entitled the greatest thing.
And he's so humble and kind,funny, and afterwards, his son's
a big gamer and that's how theygot him their son. Basically, Dad,
you have to do Oh wow,that's cool. And so afterwards he

(03:00):
says, Christopher, Christopher, wouldyou mind taking a picture with me and
my boy? Would I mind?Maybe? So we go back and I
stand in between he and his son, and his son is shaking like a
leaf, and uh, he leans, he leans into my chest. My

(03:23):
favorite actor. Oh and I lookedat your Ted's al Pacino. Yeah,
and then Al says, I toldyou he's a big fat That's cool.
That's cool, that's something serious.Yeah, that was I just made that

(03:43):
up. Wow, he's gonna beusing that. You get that on your
next that's good stuff. What's yourfavorite Patina I roll? Oh god,
you know, there isn't one.It's it's it's it's a work of art,
like his entire career. It's uh, you know, we'd be here

(04:04):
all day, you know. Yeah, his ability to make every character so
human and so relatable, and soit's it's it's a gift. I mean,
it's not a gift. It's hardwork. Yeah, yeah, it's
hard work. And you know,he's he's perfected, and he's not afraid

(04:25):
to take risks and chances, andyou know, so, I mean he's
he's kind of the pinnacle. Yeah, that's for sure. He did a
movie with with Gene Hackman that Ithought was very underrated, and it's like
thirty years ago. I cannot,for the life me remember it, but
I remember being so impressed because Imean, he played someone who was kind

(04:46):
of like slow, you know,and and it was so the opposite of
this sharp witted Michael Corleone. Andhe went from Master of the Universe to
oh, well, you know,you know, almost like a farm hand.
Yeah, something like that. AndI I thought, and they were
both as each one as believable ascan be. Yes, there you go.

(05:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, didyou google that or did you google
that? Yes? I did notknow that. Yeah, it's pretty good.
Yeah. So yeah, he's gotthe range. Yeah, we're not
worried about how Yeah, you know, but that's the thing about that.
I think I think everyone has atremendous range in them. But it's just

(05:30):
the fear of what you'll be perceivedas, or the fear of if you
go too far or hurt your career, the fear of you know, and
so that's I think one of thelevels of performing is being able to perform
without fear, and then that's whenyou do great work. That's true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's kind of like a tenant in

(05:50):
the business, isn't it. Youhave to go out there and no risk,
no reward, That's right, Iwould think. I mean it's true.
I mean it sounds good in premise, but you know, we've been
on sets, you know, alot of the times that is not afforded
to you until you're over a certainnumber on the call sheet, you know,

(06:14):
then you're, hey, let itfly, you know. But you
know when you're not, let's justread the lines like you know. Yeah,
so that's why I do voice over. Then nobody they can't they can't
stop me too late, I saidit. I just tear it out something.
If it was good, if itwas good the writer wrote it.
If it was bad, shut thehell up redo it again. Yeah.

(06:38):
So yeah, it all comes outin the wash, as it does.
Yeah, So what is the whatare the plans for for cradles now that
he's king of the world again.Well, there's you know, there's a
lot of stuff in the mill wecan't talk about. Oh God, here
we go. You know, wecan't talk about it. But you know,

(06:58):
it's it's interesting. There's really nofirm decisions have been made yet.
You know, there's a world ofpossibilities. Now, how do you whittle
that down to what you're gonna do? You know? And sometimes that process
takes a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. They have
to convince each other. There's alot of cooks in that kitchen. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, you'reThat's a good way to put it.
That's a good way to put it. Well, Chris, you brought

(07:20):
up you brought up hard work,and something that we haven't talked about yet
on this show is actually I wantedto ask you, Jim, how would
you compare yourself when you first gotinto voice acting to now. Have you
felt growth? Is it just anatural thing? And could you talk a
bit about that, like, well, yeah, I definitely have felt a

(07:40):
lot of growth. I was Iwas astonished, I mean, you know,
knock on what I that I gotmy first job and what was your
Well, no, it was alittle show called Dumbo Circus and it was
on this brand new thing that cameout with it was called cable TV.
Brand new. And because back inthe day we had like four channels,

(08:01):
PBS and the other three, andDisney Channel just came out on the cable
and they said, well, youknow, let's let's bring back these.
They had a show on there,oddly enough, called Welcome to Pooh Corner.
This is before my time is Pooh. I wasn't in business, but
they were doing Dumbo again and itwas people in costumes, little people,

(08:22):
big people, all sorts of youknow, in costumes walking around and and
they needed a character to play Timothythe mouse from Dumbo. Dumbo Circus,
come on, tell them what youknow? Whatever? You know that little
guy and uh, but they couldn'thave, like, even if it was
a little person, they couldn't havea four foot mouse. So they made

(08:43):
him a lion. And so Iwas a little bit different because there's a
lot of four foot lions out therethat's more a lible. And so so
I auditioned for it and I gotthe very I mean very first job I
ever auditioned for Wow. And thegood news was for me was that they
did sixty five episodes and it tooka year and a half. So and

(09:07):
I didn't even have an agent.I just heard about it. Yeah,
sixty five and we did two aweek. So I was making like four
hundred bucks four fifty at the videodepot. Now all of a sudden,
I'm making like eight hundred and Iwas like, wait, that's almost double.
And I'm working four hours a day, you know, because we did
two shows in one day, andI said, well, I'm doing this,

(09:28):
you know. And then I gotan agent through through that experience,
and it gave me a year,year and a half cushion to you know
where I didn't have to worry.So I'd auditioned here, an audition there.
And then at that point I hadpassed X amount of auditions, and
I was doing radio commercials and Iwas doing TV commercials and then you know
the occasional movie trailer, and youknow, one thing led to another,

(09:54):
and I finally had an agent.That always helps, you know, And
I've never had to have a break. For thirty nine, It'll be forty
years next year, whoa, Soyeah, longevity. Yeah, And I
was only eleven when I started.Now, how did you even come to

(10:18):
it? Always interests me how peoplego, I want to do this?
So what led you? Oh?Well, that's an easy one for me.
I've said it before. I waswatching I was sitting with my dad
watching the Jack Benny program. Hewas on TV and uh he had mel
Blanc, the original vo monster cartoonguy. He was on there and he

(10:39):
was doing a bit ce ce cy, you know, he was wearing a
sombrero and this and that. Andmy dad goes, you say this bastard.
I go yeah, and he goes, that's you know what he does?
And I go no. He goes, you know what you get up
on Saturday morning? You're watching BugsBunny and the Daffy and the Tasmania and
then the little Sylvester. I go, yeah, he goes, that's him.
I go, what do you meanthat's him? He goes, Wow,

(11:00):
he does all the voices. AndI went, I'm doing that,
well, you know, and Isaid, he doesn't have to stand in
the corner for being weird, right, right, so everybody likes him,
right, I want to be him. So I grew up and now I
got to be him. Well,now I get to hang out with you.
It's awesome. That's awesome. Whatabout you, Chris, when did
you Because you started out life playingfootball, you know, played college,

(11:22):
played proprity. I believe he wasa football player. But okay, well,
for me that was just always ameans to an end because when I
was high school, Uh, wehad this great affinity in the house for
the Rams because my mom had boughther first Volkswagen for Merlin Olsen. Oh

(11:43):
yeah, and so we watched theRams religiously. So Merlin Olson was one
of the first football players to actuallytransition to acting. And I thought,
well, because I hate it.I hated it. And the only thing
that was tolerable tolerable about it forme was that game days were like performances,

(12:11):
so I had an audience. That'scool. Yeah, but I knew
from I remember. I remember whenit hit me. I was watching Sounder.
M hmm, Cicely Tyson, Paul, Yeah, Paul wentfield and Sounder
was about, uh, this kidwho his dad goes to jail and his

(12:35):
best friend is his dog, Sounder. You know, dad comes back,
but Sounder gets killed, and Iremember I was I couldn't stop crying.
I couldn't. Man, I waslike, and that came from that.
I want to do that. Iwant to do that, and it just
it never changed. Yeah, becauseyou reach out, you're touching the people.
Yeah, you're breaking hearts, putsmiles on faces. That's right,

(12:58):
that's right. And you know,sometimes it gets lost on us that because
you know, I don't know ifit still happens to you or if it
ever happened to you. But sometimessome days it's just crazy shit goes on.
You go, what a what afucking ridiculous way to make a living?
Yeah? Yeah, wow that couldyou kind of get into the bubble

(13:20):
and you you lose sight of someof the stuff mean stuff to people,
you know, letting you into someone'sletting people letting you into their home.
If you're like a series or cartoonor whatever it is on a weekly whatever
or whatever basis, it is isan incredibly personal thing. You know.

(13:43):
So these things that we do andthat are recorded and people allow into their
homes, it's incredibly intimate and itreally meet they form connections that that are
meaningful. Yeah, you're right aboutthat. That's a very good insight.
Yeah, yeah, I've you know, I guess it's mostly with Winnie the
Pooh uh and somewhat extend Tigger two. But but it's that that heartfelt stuff

(14:09):
and if people lock onto it,especially at an early age, yes,
you know, it's the earlier youknow, and you just become it's almost
like being a family member, youknow, because I've heard and I know
you must have had this occur becauseI think the first person I uh ever
heard say that it was Sonny andCherre had that show, the Sonny's Share

(14:30):
Show, and people come up tohim and he would be any any place,
you know, an elevator or something, Sonny, Hey, how you
doing? My man? Look atyou all? Get over here you and
he's this and that and the otherthing, and he says and then he
could realize that the person just went, wait a minute, I don't know
this guy. He doesn't know me. I just see him on TV a
lot. I feel like he's mycousin or my uncle and he's looking at

(14:50):
me like, why the hell areyou hugging on me in an elevator?
And uh. And it's that instantfamiliarity, absolutely, you know, and
if it's a bond, but it'sit's kind of one way unless you go
to comic Con or something like thatand everything, then everybody's going, hey,
you know, then it's kind oflike their job to be happy with
you. So so yeah, II hear you. That's that. Well,

(15:16):
that's it's a little it's a littlecherry on top and that is you
know, it is you know,all those people just touching all their lives.
Yeah, because I've had situations wherepeople say, you got me through
this horrible thing, this mess orwhatever, and they play like a Winnie
the Poo song in there they canget through it, right, Yeah,
And I know and you're you gotTilk was. It was very interesting.

(15:37):
It was a very interesting character.Think you yeah, I mean he wasn't
he wasn't an he wasn't a vulcan. He wasn't you know, the standard
didn't have any horns. Well,actually touching on that. One thing that
I don't think people know. Idon't even think it's online, is Tilk
originally had like long ear lobes,right ear lobes. He had the oh

(15:58):
crap, now I forgot the nameof it. Was called the third eye.
No, no, just the it'sthe Egyptian long beard thing at that
and what they realized was, well, if tealcat it, we have to

(16:18):
put it on all the Jaffa,So just mine in the beginning with all
that took about two hours, sofor you know, for background people,
they didn't want to be spending anhour and a half per person. And
JAFA episodes were always the big ones, so there'd be one hundred Jafa.
So it just became you have topair this down. How about let's just

(16:42):
do this? Yes, how aboutgolden eyeliner? Yeah, there you go?
Perfect. Yeah. Did you haveany input in how that character looked
her, any of the prosthetics oranything like that. Well, the thing
that I wanted I wanted him tohave an almost air of androgyny and also

(17:07):
the sense that he was almost anewborn because he's going to this new situation
where he knows nothing. And it'snot because he's wild by. He's wild
by Like, Wow, these peopleare primitive because compared to the technology that
he's been around, this is likethey don't have the wheel, you know,

(17:32):
how do they exist? You know? So all credit to Brad and
Jonathan because we had really at lengthdiscussions about how I wanted to play Tilk
and they were so the audition.They really weren't certain what they were looking

(17:55):
for, but a sci fi tohave an alien. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, So I remember when wewere doing the screen tests. There were
three people there for Carter, therewere three people there for Daniel Jackson,
there were three people there for GeneralHammond. But there were ten tilks there.
There were white tulks, there wereAsian tulks, Mexican tulks, two

(18:17):
black tulks. And our first screentest was for MGM. So they're calling
out the names of the people whowon't be going on to the showtime screen
test. And when it was allsaid and done, I looked around and

(18:37):
I was the only talk left.Oh, there you go. So Brad
came up to me and said,just do it like that and it's yours.
And I still to this day teachthem about well part of the excitement
of getting apart in anticipation but notknowing. Lad, you ruined it for
me. It was a hell ofa good really it was. It may

(19:03):
maybe we all have get ruination likethat. And you guys went on to
do that for how many years?Seasons? Ten seasons? Seasons? Yeah,
that's that's changed. Yeah, itwas. We were in a weird,
weird good position. Yeah. Wehad a two season order to start
with, so we knew that wewere going to do forty four episodes,

(19:26):
so we didn't have to make thesehuge leaps in character. Oh you had
two seasons, I mean twenty twoepisode seasons. Yeah, and then the
night the pilot aired, it wasat that time the biggest thing that ever
been on cable. Wow, gotmore viewers than the Tyson Tyson was not

(19:48):
Tyson Holyfield, Tyson Tyson anybody,Yeah, because that they were all they
were all big. Yeah. Sothe next day we got three more seasons,
so we knew we're gonna go atleast five. That was amazing because
they never gave me that many anamazing, right, gentlemen. Yeah,

(20:14):
so you could take your time developingships. Boy, nothing like nothing like being
paid to get better and come morecomfortable and ka ching, let's don't forget
ka ching. Wow. Oh Godbless you. That's good. And one
thing led to another and you've doneYou've done a lot of cool stuff.

(20:34):
Okay, audience out there, andI'm sure they're listening because they're live,
like I was saying up here,and I always look at Brandon. I
was watching a movie. It wasa three part, three trilogy movie,
and I think Christian Bale was init. Oh yeah, he got and

(20:56):
he was he was Batman and hewas down there and he was doing doing
this and doing that, and allof a sudden, this familiar face comes
up and puts the puts the quietuson him, trying to kick Chris Batman's
ass, and uh. And Iwas like wait and then you you were
like, but that's a that ain'tbad. That's not bad. You know,
that ain't bad. I call iteight weeks of work for forty seven

(21:18):
seconds of screen time. Wow,but the checks clear. Yeah yeah,
but that was you know we're talkingabout like the Paccino moment. Yeah.
Somehow I negotiated for a trailer,and the trailers are called the oh a
trailer. Yeah, I was thinkingof movies. Trailer, am I gotcha?

(21:41):
So in this circus of trailers,there's Bail Yeah yeah, there's Hathaway,
Yes, yes, there's Morgan Freemanthere. You know, so it's
like what Yeah, yeah, there'sa big What am I doing here?
You know? So it was justlike having a ball I reckon Hardy Yeah,

(22:07):
yeah, it was a strange thingbecause Hardy really doesn't break character,
so I had never really worked withand you know, I hesitate to use
method because for everyone that's not actuallywhat it is. But the I remember

(22:30):
going to wardrobe and it was thisbig deal, like why are all these
producers here? Like it was justwardrobe. So my original wardrobe I had
on a full kind of bikers outfit, all the pat like the the kind
of skeleton of padding that they wereunderneath to help lesson injuries, and then

(22:53):
seven layers on top of it.So I looked massive, but you were
cold either. Yeah, I wasnaked under everything. Now I'm not sure
why that matters. Uh So Icome out and immediately see all the heads
turn and then I did something wrong, So hey, Chris, can you

(23:22):
take off two of the layers?So oh yeah, you want long story
shore I ended up just weren't onelayer of clothing, and but still I
was so much bigger than Tom.Basically everything I did. I think there's
one scene right next to him wheremy arm is in it. M that's
it. Everything else with me withTom was cut. Most of my scenes

(23:45):
were Tom, so yeah, itwas, but still it was and you
know at that point, you know, Bail had had this reputation for you
know, being he was so cooland so and I had a little accident
on set and Bail was the firstone they ever seeing him. I was
okay, hey, and it washe was a lovely dude. But one

(24:11):
of the things, like, so, I was in stunt rehearsal for a
week for that one scene and Christianand Joe couldn't because they were shooting other
stuff. So I watched Christian onthe day watch his double do it twice
and it was complicated. M allright, I got it, let's go.

(24:33):
And he did it first take,first take, No, that was
it, and that's the one theyused. You didn't do it a couple
of times. Well, we hadto do it a couple of times.
In that take, Joe was supposedto punch me and it was a big,
huge miss for where the camera was. So the sun coordinator comes and
says, Joe, you gotta sellthe punch, and he walks away.

(24:56):
And when you tell an actor whodoesn't have a lot of fight choreo experience,
you got to sell the punch,that means closer. Yeah, yeah,
I would think so. And it'snever about being closer is just knowing
what cameras are on you, whatangle you got to be at. In
my mind, so I'm gonna gethit. And then Joe punched me right

(25:18):
in the eye and my eyes startsspurting blood and oh crist oh man.
And because my head was on theground, so there was nowhere for me
to go. And poor Joe.He felt Joseph ordon Lea, he felt
so bad. I was like,no, no, no, it's my
eyes. And so here's where youknow, you're pecking order in the world.

(25:41):
So we were filming at the oldbridge that they tore down, and
I like, that's where Gotam wasbuilt. And where was it the you
know, the third Street bridge thatthey tore down. I think we were
the last ones to use the nodone, but of course they couldn't keep
that from the fans. So there'shundreds of people surrounding so over the radio

(26:03):
here we need an ambulance. Chrisis hurt. So the ambulance gets there
and they make this big deal ofputting me on the gurney, but the
actual ambulance is through this throng.Oh perfect, So as I'm going through
like okay, we're getting christ Ihear someone go, oh thank god,

(26:25):
we thought he meant Chris Bale.You could hear a collective sigh from hundreds
of people like, oh god,but that that'll keep you, that'll keep
your humble? Yes it will,but it could have been a lot worse.

(26:48):
Oh Jesus, man, but whatand give up show bab Exactly right,
exactly, that's crazy, man.I wanted to bring it around to
voice work. You done obviously alot of voice work is well not really?
Yeah, well really do you rememberyour first voice? Well, that's
crazy. He's got these great pipes. You know something. You know,

(27:10):
I'm and I always want to becauseit always comes off weird when I say
it. I always say I'm nota voice actor, Like that's a that's
a separate talent. That's not justhaving a good voice. Being able to
craft these characters. Yeah, outof basically nothing, you create characters.

(27:33):
It's not just about being able totalk deep, you know what I mean?
So I I and I No,I agree you're right that I'm being
I'm like, no, I'm sayingI bow down because I don't possess that
ability, you know what I mean? Wow, that's pretty good over here.

(27:53):
But I know what you're saying.Well, you know, my buddy
jessar Now has a good way ofputting. He goes, when it comes
to being a voice actor, it'sa small V, but it's a capital
A. You know. So becauseyou know people, you know, there's
people that are on the internet.And there was a guy maybe eight or
nine years ago, I don't know, and he goes, I'm gonna sit

(28:14):
here and do all Jim Cummings's voices. I have to tear the flamps in
the night. And he went allthe way down you know, dark wing
and pooh and take her and andI was like, okay, well,
okay, okay, and he couldn'tbut he couldn't act. What if you
threw him in the pool? Youknow, and you know it's just just
still it's but it's all your butno, it's but it's it's true,

(28:41):
you know. I mean that's justdoing an impression. Okay, Well can
you can you cry? Can youare? You? Can you can you
bounce? I don't know. Youknow, you gotta do a lot.
You gotta do what that character woulddo, and you have to react the
way that character would react like Ido dark Wing Duck just recently, and
and his reaction is not going tobe the same as Tiggers or you know.
I mean, it's just that simple. There. There, they're characters

(29:04):
there. I'm basically just a characteractor that has a bunch of voices.
You know, I'm not you know, but no Shakespeare over here. But
that's okay, Well that's a wholeanother, that's a whole another Chris.
But I don't so for me,everything has to be visceral. M but

(29:26):
what you guys do, there canbe nothing there, and generally there is
is It's never like yeah, yourperformance, oh yeah, yeah, so
ill on your head. I guessI don't. I don't possess. Hence
I've never auditioned before anything animated andgotten it. What about Wacky Races?

(29:52):
You did Wacky Races with Billy Wes, Tom Kenny my partner. I did
it, Mike Lisa, the showrunneris my partner. But the battle to
have me be one of the leadswas like, who's this guy? And
then you know, Michael was like, well he's you know, didn't mean

(30:15):
ship in the animation world, youknow, So it was like a battle.
Yeah, Well, I don't thinkit means Yeah, I don't think
it means squad anyway in the animation. That's in fact, buddy mine.
Charlie Adler first pointed this out along time ago, and I never thought
of it, but he said,uh, it doesn't matter what you did
last week, it doesn't matter whatyou did this morning. You have a

(30:36):
fresh audition. You're going to thisplace in Burbank called the Voicecaster. And
now you can't go in and getI mean, you know, get a
get a bunch of I don't know, Chevrolet commercials because you did ever Ready
battery commercial last week. No,don't you understand I did the ever Ready
batter the okay, right, wellhere you want to sell some Chevyes because

(30:57):
that's what's up. Now, that'sand I just the whole I just I
can't wrap my head around you knowwhat I mean? And like there's no
like I need about fifteen minutes more. Yeah, what are you talking about?
You're dead, you're you know you'rehere, Yeah, you're done.
Yeah, So I yeah, it'sit's just and I so I have done

(31:22):
animated stuff, but I would alwaysrecord by myself, not because I was
elitist. I was afraid. Iwas afraid to be in the group records.
So what was that experience like whenyou were with such legends like Billy
West was on the show, likeTom Kenny, fucking terrifying and coming from
him, you know, it's likewait what now? You know? Yeah,

(31:45):
I know who everyone in the roomwas. And I'm the only dude
that's not a legendary Boys person.You know. I know you were with
Phil Lamar Yeah yeah, yeah,I like him, like we've become friends.
But yeah, one of my actors, man, and I was telling

(32:09):
him, I was saying this earlier. One of my favorite cartoons growing up
was Hong Kong Fu. Yeah yeah, so played by Scatman Brothers. You
know him from the Shining Yes,but you know, I was legendary.
He was a legendary performer and oneof the things he did was Hong Kong

(32:31):
Fu. And I was Saturday morning, brother, up, we were at
eight in the morning. That's wewere watching Hong Kong That's right. Uh.
And so when Scatman Passionate brought backPhil is voice, right, So
every time I see him, Iwondn't even say hi. I'll just say

(32:52):
come on man, yeah, likeman, oh, Chris is good to
see your baby. That's cool,that's good stuff. Yeah, meeting meeting
your idols, right, but itis just such. And so to get

(33:15):
to your question, uh, Imade it about my work schedule that I
couldn't ever ah, oh, thereyou go. And and the truth of
it was, I was terrified.So I tried to do this with wacky
races. Well thank god, waitwhen nobody's going to see this, But
unfortunately Mike, my writing and producingpartner, he knows my schedule. Oh,

(33:40):
so back out of it. Sothe first record, I literally sweated
through my clothes. I was dripping. I was so scared. I can't
imagine that. I was terrified.And then you know, you know Tom,
you know, you know everybody.They're just going off on and just
voices and yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all I got. Well that's

(34:07):
probably all you made it, soyou golden. It was the one time
that I actually got out of myhead and actually did like a character voice.
And I would probably be the lasttime because it just sounds so weird.
I don't know. Well, Donla Fontaine only had that one voice,
but he made Yeah, I worriedabout him. I got rest is

(34:28):
soul. But yeah, my firstand this was just luck. I happened
to out of college being modeling forNike, and the designers heard my voice.
And this was Nike was bankrupt.They were bankrupt, and they had
gotten the bounce back ended up doingokay, wait, worried about them,

(34:51):
and the designer said, I loveyour voice. So she called some of
the other designers in and they sentme right there down the street to the
recording studio where they were recording thisthing. And it was for the Air
Revolution. Oh, the Air Revolutionby Nike. Sure, gravity is just

(35:12):
a game. Oh. It wasmy first job and then I didn't do
another one for twenty five years.I hope the resildts were good. Well,
let me tell you. Yeah.I had no idea. Yeah,
but I also had no idea aboutthe business. So I thought this is
the way it is. Yeah.Yeah, yeah. People are talking about
it's a struggle. Yeah yeah,yeah, I remember thinking the same thing.

(35:37):
I had something similar like that.I like I said with that first
up. But I ran into aguy in San Diego when I first started
out, and maybe everybody, maybepeople out there are going to remember this,
but he he was vo guy andhe was probably about fifty years old
then, and he said that,well, I said, so what are

(35:57):
you doing? I'm trying to breakin and you know this? And he
said, well do you do youwatch TV? And I go yeah,
I goes if I said to you, ok e double l oh double good
Kells? Best do you? AndI said that's you and he goes yeah,
And that's on every guy, Idon't know, Cheerios commercial and everything,
I mean Kelloggs and he goes yeah. And I have a really nice

(36:21):
house. Now can I please saysome assembly required? Give me a tagline
something like that. And then MichaelBell is a friend of mine. He's
good old Michael Bell. And hewas the guy I'll test your collective memory

(36:42):
out there again. But it washe was the guy that went on and
said butter, butter, freaking butter. And and that was on Park or
something. It's not Park, whatis it? Butter? Yeah, and
it was that was it. AndI said, I hate you. You
know, I'm over here doing bookson tape and you know what, you

(37:07):
know, getting fifty bucks you know, oh man, But yeah, it's
that's that's the business, right,yeah, truly the business of show.
Yeah. Yeah. The I wasdoing action man in Vancouver, and uh,
well there were cast wasn't you know? The director said, no,

(37:30):
he's not going to be here anymore. That's something happened. Yeah, he
became the voice of ABC. Ohyeah, yeah, yeah, well I
know that happened to Dorian Herewood.He did rather well with that NBC.
Yeah, coming up on NBC thevoice of ABC. Who was that?
I forgot what his name was,Jernie Anderson. No, I think he

(37:54):
was envy because this was this wasback in a long time, ninety two
thousands. Oh, okay, soit's been well. Yeah, well,
wherever he is, we're not worriedabout him. He's doing all right.
Yeah. I do have a funny, hopefully funny story. I was at

(38:14):
a place called Buzzies and this isa long time ago, and uh,
I went to bathroom, had togo to bathroom. I was doing some
spot it doesn't matter, and Ihear from uh and I'm washing my hand
and I hear in the stall thisis c n N no. Wait,
this is c N no. That'snot good. This is c n N

(38:44):
yes. And James Earl Jones comeswalking out and it gives me little I
got goosebumps. Gebump, Remember James. Yeah, I don't think I've ever
told that story. I'd forgotten thatone. He's a wonderful, wonderful cat.
Oh yeah. One of my earlyjobs. He had a show called
Gabriel's Fire on ABC. So oneof my early jobs was I played a

(39:07):
hit man. I had no ideaabout acting. You know, you need
a guy, you know, prettymuch. That's what it was back then.
That's what like black dudes auditioned for. Oh there you go, Robert,
gang member, never do well,whatever it was. And now you
start as a guy who's actually white. And I don't mean that, I

(39:31):
don't mean it looks like me,but you know, only because he's covered
in the ashes of the family hekilled. Well, that details have to
anybody. And I'm doing this thing. I'm get on the ground, you
know, you know that that like, oh yes, and so break for

(39:53):
lunch and I'm feeling good. I'mfeeling good. So do Chris. Uh,
mister Jones would like you to joinhim for lunch? Wait, I
was like, what's always sat there? And he doesn't have that big old

(40:15):
he's actually very quiet. And hesaid, you know, you know a
lot of people don't really kind of. So I'm gonna give you a piece
of advice. Never move unless youhave to. And that's that's buying the

(40:35):
first commandment for me. That's cool. I never move unless I have to.
Well, he would know, youknow, and you know it's worked
out. Okay, Wow, jeez, that's cool. Ibou he told that
to David Prowse. He goes,no, don't move, you know,
stand there with that stupid you know. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah,

(40:59):
but mister Jones was just I meanreally, I mean, I owe my
career to that advice. That's reallygood. Wow. You guys writing this
down out there right. Look,I'm looking at the wrong thing. You're
writing that down. Okay, don'tmove unless you have to. Oh,
probably me there you go. Youknow I would see you performances and I'd

(41:22):
do them in the mirror. Mmhm. That's I grew up in a
really weird little city, well inTexas or no, in California, in
the South Bay, which kind oftorrents were down the beach, spells very
that area and one high school atthe same time, uh, Forest Whitaker,

(41:51):
Quentin Tarantino, Treece Rushian and yeah, okay, we all lived in
this neighborhood. Damon. Of courselittle brother was my brother's best friend.
We all came from like a fourblock radius. Oh cheerz all my neighbors
were like hit many Damn. Iused to walk to Junior High with Quinton

(42:21):
and we the only thing we hadin Commons. Wanted to be in show
business and people would laugh at us. Wow. People were just like,
you guys are idiots. You know. People where we came from, they
were athletes. Yeah you know that. It wasn't well that's okay, you
got you can get a two front, you know, that's right. So

(42:44):
yeah, it's uh, this group, we were the only ones that didn't
think we were weird. Yeah,yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah
yeah. I can remember the firstI had a teacher like that that and
it was weird beca because she usedto be a nun and I went to
a Catholic high school and her namewas Miss Baker, and she said something

(43:07):
about, well, you know,the nuns are gonna they're they're kind of
tough, and we go who butmiss Baker, you can't say that.
She goes no, it's okay,I used to be when I quit WHOA
okay, but she was the firstone that didn't think I was weirdo,
I was crazy. She thought,No, he's just different. It's okay,

(43:28):
he's not really all that, youknow, because maybe he can do
something with this probably but you neverknow, you know, don't don't bet
on him, but he could happen, right, so you know, we'll
take that, right, we'll takeit. I just want to jump back
quickly to what's the best advice you'veever got in your career? Yeah?

(43:49):
Yeah, don't be a mime?So no, uh, you know,
I've kind of adapted it over theyears into a phrase, Instincts are the
best snakes, you know, andif because if you think you know in
your head and I don't really thinkthat much because that doesn't sound right.
But what I mean is I reallyjust go from God, you know.

(44:14):
And I will like to read thingsone or two times ahead of time because,
as you know, in VO,you don't have to memorize them,
you know, thank you Jesus,because my memory is terrible. But I
think that's why I'm a good adliver, because I wasn't because I was
in a million places as a kid, you know, on on on a
stage and uh, and I wasn'tgood at memorizing, so I'd remember and

(44:35):
I'd be in the scene and Igo, oh, Jesus, what,
well, I'll just say this,and and it kind of worked. So,
you know, my that's where itcame from. Instincts are the best
stinks. And you know, I'vehad it said to me that, you
know, well, if you thinkit's funny and you think, well that's
not bad, probably you're probably notthe only guy, probably not the only

(44:58):
person that's going to think that.So give it a shot, especially especially
uh in you know recording. Imean it's it was at the time it
was just tape. Now it's noteven tape. You don't even have to
rewind and cut it, right,you just hit delete next. So yeah,
instincts are the best things. Nowhow long did it take you though,

(45:19):
too? Did you always from thebeginning just trust your gut or did
you try to please who you weremaybe auditioning for or yeah, a little
of both. Yeah, but itwas always trust my gut. Because I
use an example that I did acartoon called tail Spend long time ago,
maybe late eighties, and I wasa pirate and at the time, oh,

(45:42):
the pirates were from Megland or Scotlandor Ireland. There were always something.
But I thought that this guy,I thought it would be cool if
he was from the Caribbean. Youknow, I'm not like Pirates of the
Caribbean that was that was but itwas a guy I think it was from
and I put in like this,and he was amazing and his name was

(46:04):
Don Carnage and the art you know, and everybody went, Okay, well
that's weird, you know. SoI got the job. Well yeah,
and it was cool and and andit was not you know because at the
time, you know, the typicalyou know, uh uh Cockney, they
were all they were all pirates forCockney. I don't know, it's it's

(46:25):
England's fault for having all those people. But yeah, so you know everything
that like I say, you know, you break the break through the expectation.
Yeah, and and and well that'snot what I was waiting for,
but I like it, like yeah, it's it really is, I think,
the best way to be, butnot always the best way to get

(46:49):
a job. Yeah, well that'strue. It's because it's worked. It's
kind of worked both ways for me. Yeah sure, I mean, because
I've always tried to especially play whenI would audition for black athletes. I
tried to play him exactly the oppositeof how they were written, because they
were written so badly. And well, that's a good idea, and sometimes

(47:15):
it takes me really far down theroad. The other times, you know,
it would be you know, Idon't want to say any names.
Betty Thomas my agent, and said, don't ever have him auditioned for me
ever again? Wow? Okay,And it was And then I saw and

(47:36):
I don't want to say the moviePlato Nash, I saw who got the
role, and God blessed me hisfriend of mine. But it was exactly
how they wrote it and which andhe was fine, he was great,
But it wasn't how I ever wantedto portray myself, which is a hell

(47:57):
of a lot easier to do whenyou have a job, because I had
a job at the time, Soyou can do that because you don't need
this job to eat. Yeah,yeah, that helps, so it but
yeah, I mean, just wow, And the thing is all I did
was make this dude smarter. Shewas so offended by that that you know,

(48:19):
I don't yeah, yeah, yeah, what do you know. I'm
past making enemies and yeah. Yeah, yeah, well he'll splatter spread it
all over the place. But Imean I was just so like and I
had it all memory. I wasoff book, you know. Yeah,

(48:39):
and for her to be that offendedbecause I wouldn't like, hey, man,
what you doing over it? No? No, I'm just not going
well at all, you know.So yeah, yeah, well you know
I always say you can't play chesswith the chimp. Now you have to

(49:00):
cut it. Yeah, I meanyou know, it wastes your time and
it misses off the chimp. Absolutely, what are you gonna do? I'm
coming away with a wealth of nuggetsand going to steal. But it's true.
It's true. Ship, we shouldhang on more avoiding you. Where

(49:30):
are we going after this? Gotsome clubs? Yeah? Yeah, no,
I'm at watching. I've never playedgolf. You're an avid golfer?
Yes, yeah, good for you. Yes, I mean I always joke
it's the one thing my dad,one of the two things my dad gave
me a love of golf and alcoholism. Oh wait, did your dad know?

(49:52):
My dad? Except for the golf, I'm with you. Yeah,
horseshoes. Horseshoes was okay? Ohman, See Brenda doesn't know anything about
that. They don't have any boozedown there in Australia. Yeah, is
it still legal down there? Theywere trying to trying to litigate it out

(50:13):
of there, aren't they. Ithink we're pretty much knowing for getting pissed
every single day of the week.That's pretty much what the size of the
shots were like this now they're likethat if you really, if you're willing
to pay more money, they'll makeit. But that's what they're doing,
which unfortunately I found out. Well, I remember one of the first times

(50:34):
I ever ran into you. Itwas in Australia. Yeah it was,
And I couldn't remember the name ofthe convention, but it was in Australia.
Yep. Was it Super nov No, it was back then their competitor.
Yeah. I forgot who it was. Uh, yes, could be
because Wren. No, it wasa it was a husband and wife or

(50:57):
a girlfriend boyfriend, whatever the situationwas. Clarissa and I forgot good old
what's his name? Yeah, lovelypeople. Yeah, that was cool,
but that's where we first met.Yeah. I remember the first time I
ever saw Chris. It was ata Super and over after parties. I
was there with some other guests.I remember I went to the bathroom and

(51:20):
Chris was just walking out. Iwas walking to this mountain of mass and
I was like, what is this. I looked up and I was like,
holy shit, that's tilt. He'shuge. Yeah, and then he
said, wait, mountains don't stumblewhen they Yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, I know I was drunkback then. There you go. Oh

(51:42):
god, I loved Australia, Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Did you
ever come back to Australia Do youthink if the opportunity was there, Oh
god, yeah, oh absolutely.You know. I've just I just took
a break from doing conventions, becauseI mean I did him for twenty years,
like NonStop. So I just tooka five year and I'm kind of
starting to gear up to them again. Do you find an entire new audience

(52:04):
now because of Kratos? Do youthink of the fans would have winded away
and now you've got a new audience. No. Actually, because of the
pandemic, Stargate was on so manychannels that people discovered it for the first
time. So now you have notonly a parent in their kid, but
now their parent the kid and theiryoung kids. So it's it's been a

(52:29):
huge resurgence of it. And uhand then with God of War, Yeah,
it was just a whole another justhuge. You know, I thought
sci fi fans were rabid gaming fans. Holy, I mean they If someone
can ever have a project that meldsthe two together, it's going to be

(52:52):
a juggernaut forever, you know whatI mean. You know, they actually
try I forgot the name of theshow, but they actually tried around two
thousand and seven to have a scifi show that also had a game component.
Two. But they tried to doit with two separate production teams.

(53:13):
So I mean it was it wasa idea, but it just and technologically
it was the technology wasn't advancing.But now I mean it would be oh
yeah yeah, but nowadays, youknow, it will require so much planning
and cooperation that that would probably killit in the development stage. Yeah yeah,

(53:36):
yeah yeah. Lack of vision too, Yeah, absolutely definitely lack of
vision. Yeah. Well, sincewe're talking about video games, we had
Sonny Souljik, your co star ofGone of War on the podcast. Thanks
to you, I think you putthe bug in his eyes, dude.
Yeah, and you've I've seen abunch of interviews and you really you really
seems like you two really bonded,like you know, like actual father and

(53:57):
son, Like what was that experiencelike can acting with him? Well?
I think that it's kind of whyI got the job initially because so much
of it resonated to me because Imissed so much of my own kids younger
years because I was working all thetime. And it was a chance to

(54:22):
kind of revisit because when I metSonny, Sonny was nine, you know,
and he had just turned nine.So it was a chance to really
revisit because it was people think youjust go to work and you don't think
about your kids, you don't thinkabout what you're missing, but you do.

(54:45):
And it was so easy because Iunderstood who he was, you know,
So it was it was really alreadyalmost you know. And I've often
said, you know that twenty eighteen, Uh Got a War was really a

(55:07):
love letter to my kids, youknow. And but for me, Cradles
was a lot further along or alot simpler than I was as a person.
Cradles narrows it down to, oh, sure, I'm going to protect
my kids and make my warrior.That's it. That's all that matters.

(55:30):
There is nothing else. Yeah,clarity of purpose, yes, most definitely,
Singularity, most definitely. Yeah,Yeah, cradles enough to you know,
work a job. Yeah, youknow he didn't have to balance his
books. He wouldn't balance in anybooks. Oh that's well, you know
obviously being your son. That's right, folks, I am yeah, there

(55:52):
we go. It's the figure ofit that's called an easter egg. That's
right. That's right. By theway, it's just a total coincidence,
has nothing. Okay, maybe there'sa little something, but I mean that
was the craziest experience playing video games. And you know, like I've played
video games my whole life, andyou know, even playing like Deaf Jam,

(56:15):
you know, was a completely differentexperience with you voicing. You know,
it was cool, you know,like growing up and I love that
game, but mostly for like therappers and stuff that were in it.
You know, you were like,yes, you guys made that very apparent.
Yeah, you want to come towork now, you want to come
to work now, you want tocome to work. Method man's going to
be there. Oh that's funny.Yeah. But playing God of War and

(56:37):
like I've seen you say in aninterview, you know like it was what
was the phraseology that you used,It was like learning how to be a
father something along those lines, Yes, because I was never taught how to
father. Yeah. How do youteach someone the father that's never been fathered?
Yeah? And like I could reallyfeel that, like that was the
most emotional video game I've ever played, because like I feel like I had

(57:00):
probably the most unique experience in theworld playing that game, because it felt
like I'm even getting chills talking aboutit now, because like you know,
I really put myself in like aTrayas's shoes and every time you're talking,
you know you're controlling, but likeit felt like you're taught. Like I
can hear your voice talking to meright, Like I even remember one time
playing and I don't know a Treasays something about his mom and you like

(57:23):
Gough, and I was like Ihave heard that size so many times in
my life. Like that was soreal, and it was just like it
was like a really emotional journey andlike you know, like you never really
got that emotional in front of usas kids, and like, oh man,

(57:44):
like I just the hair on theback of my neck is standing up
because I remember in the climax ofthat first game, you know, you
A Treyas gets taken. It's beena couple of years since I've played,
but A Treyas gets taken or somethinglike that, and you're busting through all
the doors of the different realms andit's like a cut scene you have to
bust through, and like hearing yourscream was like it like brought like tears

(58:06):
to my eyes because like I couldhear the pain and the frustration and it
was so real. And like justplaying through that whole game, it was
just like really like not to soundtoo corny, but like a life changing
experience because it was such a uniqueaspect, you know, like controlling that
character, like hearing the stories likeriding riding in the boat, you know,
and you and the talking head.Sorry I'm forgetting your name. Yeah,

(58:28):
but what's the actor's name? Oh, Aliser, yeah, Alistair,
and man, it was just likea really cool experience. And obviously the
second one's great too, you know, I'm looking forward to whatever's coming,
but like I just really felt likeI was in a unique position to play
those games from that perspective, especiallyabout like fatherhood and you know, so
much of like what I do andwhat I aspire to do, you know,

(58:51):
acting and show business and all thatcame from growing up and being on
set, and that was you know, like the times that we got to
spend spend together, you know,even though I'd be in the special effects
trailer. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I worried about some of those antics
watching UFC. I'd be the trailer. They'd be like looking for me on
set because he would always trying toget me to sit there in the director's

(59:14):
chair, and I hated it.It was like the most boring process to
me ever, Like he'd be like, you have to learn, and I'd
be like, you have to Learn'dbe like what, like learn what these
guys are setting up lights for anhour and then you guys do two takes
and I can't see ship Like yeah, yeah, I'd rather be in the
trailer with the special effects guys watchingUFC and like shooting the paintball guns.

(59:36):
Yeah. Well that's and oddly enough, you have worked yeah behind the scenes.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,I've worked on so you we may
have picked something up after all forsure. Yeah. I've worked in quite
a few departments and in front ofthe camera. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
you know, but you're you cansee what a special place now that
you've been on other sets. Whata special place Stargate? Oh for sure.

(01:00:00):
I mean where like it was alwaysbring your family to work day,
was always bring your dog to workday. That was the Everyone knew each
other's kids, everyone knew each other'swives, husbands you can't and sisters because
they were always welcome and you know, and everyone looked out for the family

(01:00:20):
you brought, so there wasn't anywherethey couldn't go in the offices and them.
And I remember riding on Jason Momoa'smotorbike, like he used to be
the freaking cool guy that was comingon his motorbike. Can't be coming his
set. I could just hear,are you oh you're little judge? Oh
get on this long before you know? He was like Jason, yeah,

(01:00:45):
you know, he was on Atlantis. I can't even remember what character he
played on there, but running decks. Yeah. But he was such a
cool guy, you know, likejust such a down to earth dude.
And yeah, just that's someone youcan really be happy for their success because
he's not a douche. Yeah.Always a good sign, yeah, yeah,
yeah, always a good sign.But that's that's what I want.

(01:01:07):
My mission is that at least everyset that I'm number one on, it's
gonna be that, you know.Yeah, it's not gonna be people yelling
and screaming and call each names.Yeah, It's gonna be supportive and what
can we do to help you?And always a the floor is yours,
like the ideas are welcome, youknow, and to make people when they

(01:01:31):
wake up happy to go to work. Now, yeah, I gotta go
to this motherfucker. Yeah, youknow, like yeah, yeah, definitely
been definitely been on sets like that. And to give credit, you know,
I worked on Arrow for two yearsand you know, that's how I
got to know David Ramsey and that'show we got him on the show.
And that was like a very similarexperience. It was a high stress.

(01:01:52):
I think it was higher stress probablythan Stargate. You know, like it
was stress. Yeah, it wasreally long days and everything like that.
But you know, other than somebody, everybody was really kind. Do you
think having a season security added tothe relaxation on set? And I was
like, well, we're not we'renot going anywhere, so let's just all

(01:02:13):
have fun with this. It's agood question performer wise. Yes. Now,
when I say, I mean therewas no stress relative to other sets,
there's still you got to get yourdays, you know, there's still
you know, things like that.You know, but when you are once

(01:02:37):
you're a series, it's and youfind your stride and you find that formula,
then it's relatively simple to get yourdays until they whoever you do is
just wait, you got nine pagesin ten hours, Let's do fifteen pages

(01:03:00):
a day. Yeah, then youknow you're back. Okay, how do
we do that? Okay, yougot fifteen and twelve, Let's see if
we can get eighteen pages a day. You know. So it's uh,
it's kind of always, but youknow, and God bless them. Michael
Greenberg, he was twelve hours,and if you think about it, after

(01:03:23):
twelve hours, it's diminishing returns.Yeah. I was gonna say you'd be
winded down. Yeah, you can't. People can't fausted. And you know
that thirteenth hour eight like the firstYeah. Yeah, and that was back
in the days when pretty much allsci fi was shot in Vancouver. So
we hear about these shows. Theywere doing twenty two hour days. Then

(01:03:43):
they're asking people to wave turn around, and twenty four hour days. Even
when we first started, when wedid the pilot for Stargate, we did
French hours, which means you basicallyare shooting you sketch jewel an eighteen hour
day, so but you're doing itwith two crews, so you're in a

(01:04:04):
constant rotation. So it becomes atwenty four hour day shooting day because you're
constantly either at lunch and then anothercrew or you have I think you would
get a three hour break or somethinglike that and then back and then you'd
have like a two hour break.It was really I had never heard of
it before, but it was.We were trying to shovel ten pounds of

(01:04:26):
shit into a five pound bag.So it just needed to be done,
and they had found actually a reallycreative way to do it. But then
they quickly realized it was untenable,or you know it is I wanted to
do you do you do you feellike once you achieve a certain level of
not even fame, acclaim, doyou ever like have the thing? I

(01:04:51):
could settle a lot of old scores, right, yeah, knock on what?
I don't have many? I mean, you know, in my realm
and my coming up it was like, uh huh huh. Oh yeah,
So I wasn't gonna do nothing,huh, you know, and uh,

(01:05:12):
you know, it's it's just kindof that type of thing, you know,
some yahoo that used to bug youin high school. You know,
I had a guy throw me upagainst the locker, you know, back
in Catholic schooling to go, letme tell you something. Comings you ain't
gonna do squad all right? Iknow you. I know your family gonna
work in the steel mill for anothertwenty five years. You're gonna you're gonna
you're gonna sit around and lose moneyon on the Pittsburgh Pirates and on the

(01:05:33):
Cleveland Indians and on you know,cause we're in Youngstown right there. And
I was thinking, man, you'regonna brag about knowing me one of these
days. And that's my kind ofrevenge. That's awesome, you know.
And and so you know, andI went back and now I had a
I established a many moons ago,a permanent scholarship in my father's name,

(01:05:54):
God Rest the soul at that school. So it's like, okay, now,
what were you saying that again?You know, it is looking back
through the journey and you know howfew people were actually supportive of you or

(01:06:16):
weren't. Weren't didn't look at youand go like, will you ever be
successful? You have you know,it's yeah, So it's it's yeah,
you're You're right. It is itsown reward. Yeah, it is.
Well I remember, you know,like I said, my dad and different

(01:06:38):
people. Yeah, I know youwant to do that, but what are
you going to do for a livingnow? No, I'm going to do
it. That's what I'm going todo. Yeah, but yeah, to
have something to fall back, youknow, you know, it was always
something you gotta and it was somethingto fall back on. I'm not going
to fall back. I'm gonna I'mgoing to keep trucking to go forward.
I'm not looking to fall back onanything. I don't. I'm okay,

(01:07:00):
you know, And I'll go backand I'll be a deckhandhunt a damn riverboat
after but I won't. But I'lljust keep the story that I got from
doing that, and then you know, then that'll end for the journey.
I mean Grandma, my mom,who bet my best friend, God bless

(01:07:23):
her. She never worried about me, like growing up, she always had
this belief that I was gonna besuccessful at something. You know. She
never really got on me to,you know, but so what are you
gonna do? You know? Whenuh, I decided I didn't want to
play football anymore, and so nowI start working, and I believe it

(01:07:49):
was I gotten to show much I'llcalled Sirens. So when that ended,
she was like, so honey,what are you gonna You're gonna need something
to fall back on. It waslike, wait, you've never ever come
on. So she made me takethe Series seven exam, so I got
my stockbroker's license and we still laughabout it. To this man, I

(01:08:12):
was like, wait a minute,you wait until after I already started working
in this field that everyone told meI wouldn't be successful and you're never worried
about it. But as soon asI started working, well then I got
that's bass ackwards. That is bassackwards. Oh wow, yeah, well
here, let me buy you ahouse. Now are you worried? Are

(01:08:35):
you're still worried? Yeah? Whatwas it about? You know? I
loved the games themselves, I lovedwatching film. I loved. What I
didn't like was the control the thesecoaching was a lot less regulated than it

(01:09:03):
is now. So the guy whorecruited me was also my position coach,
so he understood me. He leftand went to Stanford, and the guy
who came in did not understand meand was determined to break me till I

(01:09:25):
fit his mold, and that wasn'tgoing to happen. So like nowadays,
I don't even know if you cango live during full contact during the season
anymore barely. So back then,if we had a game on Saturday,
we'd go live Friday. We'd bein full pads hitting each other the day

(01:09:50):
before we go out. And Iwas vocal of us like, this is
the dumbest shit ever. Yeah,what what if called accidents for a reason?
You know? And this was,you know, this dude from back
South who I don't want to sayhe was racist. He just hated black
people there but other than that,but he was determined. And at I

(01:10:15):
went to Oh, I went tothe Oh that's Oregon by the way.
Yes, we had had a bunchof players from the South Bay go to
Oregon and we were all characters,you know, and apparently, well I
know one was, and you know, he was determined that at least in

(01:10:45):
the position that he was in chargeof, we were going to do things
his way. Sure, and that'snot how any of us were recruited there.
You know, I was a freesafety. You were recruited because you
yeah, you know, and hetried to put me in this very regiments.
Yeah, well you got in therebeing you. What was wrong with

(01:11:08):
that? Exactly right? Yeah,exactly right. But that was back in
the days of thinking that you couldmold players into a coach's likeness. They
don't do that anymore. Yeah,Oh that's good. Yeah. I don't
even have a set to that,so that's cool. Yeah, that's good
stuff. Yeah. Well, Iwanted to ask you, Jim. We
were just talking about, you know, being on good sets and creating a

(01:11:29):
family environment, and we've kind oftouched on touched on it in other podcasts,
you know. I think Phil yesterdaywas saying, you know, like
the Voiceover World is kind of allof that. You know, it's a
very friendly environment. So I justwanted to ask you, what's like the
what's the best experience you've had ona show with the cast and the behind
the scenes. Oh, boy,gosh, the best on the show.

(01:11:50):
Well, see, I we don'tdo it that much anymore, but I
I always liked the whole cast beingthere. Yeah, you know, because
it's an organic feel well, youknow, I mean, you know,
somebody says something and even if it'snot exactly the right line, you react
to what they said, and nowit became the right line, and your
line is a little better. Noweverything just creeps up a notch, you

(01:12:13):
know. And it's at that camaraderie, that type of thing. In fact,
yesterday we were the other day wewere talking with Terry McGovern and I
was dark Wing Duck and he waslaunch Pad mcquack. He was dark Wing
sidekick, and we did a showtogether. Out of almost one hundred,
we did one show one, thevery first show we did together, in

(01:12:35):
the same room. Every single otherone was he lived in Petaluma or somewhere
like that, San Francisco, youknow, and and he was in a
studio. I was in the studio, but we're never in the same studio.
And it came off great. Butthat was because we had a rapport.
Whereas I think one of my favoriteones really now that I think of

(01:12:59):
it was the very last show ofthe Gummy Bears. Everybody remember the Gummy
Bears out there, Well, wehad all these different people. There was
Katie Lee and Will Ryan and LorenzoMusic and oh gosh, I don't even
I want to shut up now.Noel North was there, and anyway,
it was the whole cast, RobPaulson and uh. And we had the

(01:13:21):
whole cast there and I, youknow, I should put this on somewhere
because I've got it on video andnow it's on a DVD. And I
taped the whole session, you know, this back when nobody gave a darn
and I'm sitting there with this bigstupid you know, the big old eighties
VTR and the camera there and andoh, sh it's my life, okay,

(01:13:45):
you know, and uh, Andso I have it on there and
and it it shows you there's arapport there, and I think it's a
little better, you know, whenwhen you're doing it with everybody there.
Acting is part of reacting. That'sexactly right. So exactly right. But
you know that people talk about theevolution of gaming, A lot of it

(01:14:09):
is because now we shoot the cinematicstogether, you know, we actually you
know, we're the peakap suits andwe're in the volume together, and it
just makes all the difference in theworld. As opposed to manufacturing something there,

(01:14:30):
you're playing the reality of what's there, and it just rings so much
truer that you know, I duringthe lockdown I did, I played Black
Panther War War for Wakanda, andit's so extremely difficult to do scenes without

(01:14:56):
even being able to hear, yeahwhat they were doing, well they were
doing. Yeah, So to recordin a vacuum like that, I'll never
do it again. Yeah yeah,yeah, well you know I hear you,
boy. It really helps, Yeah, because you're having to having to
reimagine and imagine what this character rightbefore me said, and who's coming up

(01:15:18):
afterward. And I mean even thingslike levels of volume. You know,
I mean, am I yelling acrossthe field? Or is a guy right
next to me? I mean,you know, you get a sense of
that. But but it's a it'skind of a you know, I like
the feedback, and I just thinkit's better. It's just better to have
people around you. But I thinkI think with the video games, they

(01:15:39):
they're so focused on getting this stuffhere, that stuff there, then then
they want to maestro it together.Okay, well it's been It's really the
change of it now is because theplayer has so much control. Now it's

(01:16:00):
not micro managing anything anymore because youhave to do every version of it.
Yeah, so it's not really thatOkay, we only have like one take
we can use. Yeah, yougot to use them all because you don't
know the player is going to takea step left here. Yeah, that's
of course, that's right, that'sright, you know. So yeah,
it's it's it's a whole different.Uh. Yeah. When we were doing

(01:16:24):
Ragnarock, you know, we hadobviously delays because of the lockdown and all
that, but it was just sobig on the page that, you know,
every time I would go in andsay because they had come out and
finally and said that we were goingto come out in twenty twenty two,

(01:16:45):
and I'd start off every session withgotta wear Ragnarok twenty thirty seven. And
let me tell you how quickly thatgot old. How did the pandemic change
the way you go about in yourwork with video games? To change the
business in any way, the videogame business, the business know how we

(01:17:10):
shot it changed a lot. Itwas so fucking ridiculous, and not not
to have about what safety protocols werein place, that was other people's decisions.
But if I was going to handJim a prop, there would be
a prop guy who would sterilize itwhen it came out of mind. Oh

(01:17:32):
yeah, give me a break.Then he could put it in his gloved
hand and give it to you,and then you would continue to see that
makes me just want to sign.Yeah. But then the director as system,
everyone of the all the technicians,they all had on face shields so
you couldn't hear what the directions were. Oh god, And when we do

(01:17:57):
read throughs, everyone had on faceshields, so you couldn't hear anything anyone
was saying. So that so slowedthe process. But we kind of finally
not not to finesse it because wecould. It couldn't be finesse because we
had two safety people on set atall times. So but we found a

(01:18:23):
way to deal with it and weit was frustrating, but we didn't let
each other wallow in the frustration.Yeah, you know, and that that
is strictly all due to what trustwe had developed for each other in the
safety of that volume. That's cool. That's cool. How when you compare

(01:18:45):
the cut of wall family with theStockgate family. The only reason that's not
a good question is because I won'tanswer it. Yeah, yeah, that's
true. Yeah, which is yourfavorite? Kids? Now it's like,
no, well it's a which isbetter? How did you compare? Like,
what's other similarities between the two?Or there are similarities, but one

(01:19:08):
is coming from the perspective of aguy who was four on the call sheet
compared to the perspective of a guywho was one on the car, So
it's from a different lens, youknow what I mean. And they were
just both great places to be,you know. So one I kind of

(01:19:30):
had to go with the flow andthe flow just happened to be good.
The other one, I make surethe flow is good. So that's just
the only difference. How did itfeeling when you when you first went from
being like the four as you said, for stargeting, now you're the one.
How did you initially feel about that? Did you feel like you had
to change your approach to how youengage with others or how did you first
take being having that responsibility on yourshoulders? I felt free because I knew

(01:19:56):
that my intentions were righteous. Itwas to be as supportive, as loving,
as open to criticism, whatever itmay be, and take it all
as positive there was never a dayin there when there was anything negative but

(01:20:19):
a bunch of us I mean,Corey, I mean we all said,
this is the holy space. Thisinsulates us from everything out there, so
you could truly walk in and feelsafe no matter what you're going through in
your personal life, no matter becausethe news wasn't always great back then,

(01:20:42):
you know, so no matter howdown you felt about what's going on in
the world, here's the place you'llbe like, yeah, yeah, that's
true, that's nice, that's nice. Yeah, yeah, I do that
all the time too, But Ididn't bring my drumsticks. Oh yeah,
I drive engineers and that's occasionally.Okay, could you not do that on

(01:21:05):
the damn microphone. We've talked alot about, you know, good times,
good casts and everything like that.One thing we haven't touched on,
you know, this this entertainment industryis so difficult and everything like that.
What has been for each of you? What has been like one of the
hardest moments of your career when youfelt the most down or you know,

(01:21:26):
down trod in or struggling something reallydifficult for you? Boy? Oh boy,
well knock on what I've I've beenfairly lucky in that regard, but
you know, uh, well,when they cast Christian Bale ahead of me
in Batman numb No, I thinkI've been fortunate enough to never have any

(01:21:47):
really bad down times, but I'vealways in the back of my head,
I think we all have this oneis it? Well? What if I
don't cut the mustard next? Youknow, what if what if they what
if they come up with some characterand I can't swing it? What if
they you know? And so uh, you know, you know, I

(01:22:11):
think it's the fear of the unknown. I would think, you know,
but so far, so good.You know, I made it this far.
I'm hanging out with him, andso uh. It's so fascinating for
me to hear that, because Iremember I was watching an actor's roundtable on
YouTube and I forget who said it. I can't remember who said it,

(01:22:32):
but it was a big actor.And hearing it from you too, it's
just so interesting to me that thatsticks with you your whole career, you
know, as like a young actor, you would think, you know,
you get to a certain point whereit's like, Okay, I can take
a deep breath. You know,my body of work spece for itself.
And well, residuals are your friend. I can tell you that. I
mean, amen, right, youknow, but I've always had that,

(01:22:55):
you know, I guess what,the fear of flying or fear of the
you know what if the phone stopsringing. And I think that's healthy a
little bit because it keeps you hungry. You know, have gotta have a
little fire in the furnace. Yougot to keep going, you know,
and uh and stretching and you know, and you know, I've been very
fortunate to have different auditions to popup. And it comes from this angle

(01:23:18):
and that angle and this angle andand uh, knock on wood, which
I won't because it makes it loudnoise. You know. I've I've been
fortunate enough to skate. You know, I don't know if it's skating or
whatever it is. But because Imean, I still in the back of

(01:23:39):
my head, I can go.I can hear my dad go yeah,
but okay, that's good. Butwhat are you gonna do for a living?
Again? I go, no,I'm really going to do that?
Well, yeah, okay, youknow, and and for me that you're
never so sure that I'll be ableto do something without if somebody is sitting

(01:24:01):
over there going, You'll never youain't gonna never do that. Man,
you you're fooling yourself. You're kiddingyourself, You're kidding your family. You're
not going to cut that mustard.Okay, now I'm gonna sleigh. Now,
it's probably not the right way tobe encouraged. But if it works,
if it worked, now coming,you ain't gonna make it. It's
like I told you that Jim Mount, who shall remain nameless, you know,

(01:24:27):
yeah, you know he bagged onme. He goes, No,
you're gonna be in a still andI don't enough. He was right.
I worked in the CEMO for sixmonths, but that was it. Yeah.
I just wanted to get him enoughmoney to move to New Orleans and
then I did. That's awesome.Yeah, not convoyd. Yeah, but
don't but don't. Yeah, that'strue. You know the I can remember
the one time I had started workinga lot, and now I'm going for

(01:24:55):
Leeds and series and I don't know, I don't even know if they still
do this. But one of theinsidious things about being a regular on the
show, before you screen test,they negotiate your deal, so you know
exactly how much money this screen sowell, because if they want you,

(01:25:17):
if you haven't already negotiate, youhold them for ransom. Yeah, okay,
so it's a profit deal. Nicewhere I guess that makes sense for
them. Yeah. So at thattime I had already done a series,
and I was kind of trying tonow not take guest roles and stuff like

(01:25:40):
that. So I just wanted toget leads and series. So I was
working at ABC Entertainment Center the nightshift as a security guard. I come
home, work out, sleep foran hour or two, and prepare for
auditions or what have you, youknow, and then repeat. So this

(01:26:00):
one pilot season, I negotiated sixdeals and didn't get any of them.
So when you're not working and yousee this is for twenty thousand episode back
then twenty two episodes, Okay,you don't get it. Okay, a
role, damn. So that worksfor about two or three of them.

(01:26:26):
Now after that, it's tough.It's tough, and so yeah, six
didn't get any and I really thatwas my come to Jesus, maybe I
shouldn't be doing this. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll give it
one more year. The first auditionsof the next year was started Okay,

(01:26:46):
that paid off well. I hadlike my third year in the business was
very slim, and I ended updoing singing telegrams, a couple couple of
them, you know, for ab three or four months, and man
man, and it passed over.It happened. The Easter rolled around,
and so they said, okay,Jim, get over here, here,
here, you go here, here, he wants you to put this on.

(01:27:09):
I go, what the hell?It was an Easter bunny costume and
it was one of those solid heads. So here I am. I'm down.
I was a Orange County, Californiasolid head with a little hole and
nick gauze around the eye. Soyou look through the look through the ice.
And I went up there and Igo, here comes Pete to cotton
tail up and down the bunny trail, and I realized that there's no oxygen

(01:27:32):
in here, and I was there'sthe pod and I pulled a head off
because I was running. I waseating on my own oxygen. I was
on monoxide and carbonnoxide. And thenit goes, you know, Easter buddy
just pulled his head off. Soif you kids are watching this, you're

(01:27:57):
probably about thirty years old. NowI'm sorry, I'm sorry. Here comes
pe so don't try this at home. Oh god, that's all I got.
Okay, Thank you very much forwatching. That was another episode of
Tuned In with Jim Cummings joined byChris Judge. Thank you again so much

(01:28:19):
for being here. Don't forget tolike and subscribe us on YouTube. You
can follow us on Patreon for bonuscontent and extra goodies, and of course
we're on Spotify, Apple Podcasts andall that good stuff. Thank you so
much for watching. This was tunedIn with Jim Commings. We'll see you
next time.