March 23, 2025 • 44 mins
Guest:
Dr. Moira Hechenleitner, DVM, CSAT
Separation Anxiety Dog
Host:
Lisa Desatnik, CPDT-KA, FFCP, FDM, CPBC
So Much PETential
About Dr. Hechenleitner:
Dr. Moira Hechenleitner graduated from Mayor University College of Veterinary Medicine in 2007, in Santiago, Chile. She is a Certified Separation Anxiety Trainer (CSAT), with a postgraduate in Animal-Assisted Therapy.
Dr. Hechenleitner is a founding board member of the Chilean Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT Chile) and has spent the last 15 years offering consultation services for pet guardians and teaching courses to dog professionals. She is a speaker on the topic of Separation Anxiety, giving seminars internationally in English and Spanish.
She helps dogs and their families from all over the world overcome separation anxiety through www.separationanxietydog.com. In 2025, she will be hosting her first virtual Separation Anxiety Dog Conference – on May 5, 2025. You can learn more at this link: https://separationanxietydog.thinkific.com/courses/separation-anxiety-dog-online-conference-2025
What you will learn in this Episode:
When should you begin acclimating your new puppy to alone time?
What are some considerations when it comes to acclimating your puppy or dog to being alone?
Is crate training helpful and what strategies should you consider to teach your new puppy or dog to be comfortable in the crate?
How does having multiple dogs impact this acclimation?
If you enjoy this podcast, please ‘like’ it, follow my podcast and share it. I also want to invite you to follow So Much PETential on Instagram and Facebook. Learn more about my pet training at www.SoMuchPETential.com
Dr. Moira Hechenleitner, DVM, CSAT
Separation Anxiety Dog
Host:
Lisa Desatnik, CPDT-KA, FFCP, FDM, CPBC
So Much PETential
About Dr. Hechenleitner:
Dr. Moira Hechenleitner graduated from Mayor University College of Veterinary Medicine in 2007, in Santiago, Chile. She is a Certified Separation Anxiety Trainer (CSAT), with a postgraduate in Animal-Assisted Therapy.
Dr. Hechenleitner is a founding board member of the Chilean Association of Professional Dog Trainers (APDT Chile) and has spent the last 15 years offering consultation services for pet guardians and teaching courses to dog professionals. She is a speaker on the topic of Separation Anxiety, giving seminars internationally in English and Spanish.
She helps dogs and their families from all over the world overcome separation anxiety through www.separationanxietydog.com. In 2025, she will be hosting her first virtual Separation Anxiety Dog Conference – on May 5, 2025. You can learn more at this link: https://separationanxietydog.thinkific.com/courses/separation-anxiety-dog-online-conference-2025
What you will learn in this Episode:
When should you begin acclimating your new puppy to alone time?
What are some considerations when it comes to acclimating your puppy or dog to being alone?
Is crate training helpful and what strategies should you consider to teach your new puppy or dog to be comfortable in the crate?
How does having multiple dogs impact this acclimation?
If you enjoy this podcast, please ‘like’ it, follow my podcast and share it. I also want to invite you to follow So Much PETential on Instagram and Facebook. Learn more about my pet training at www.SoMuchPETential.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hi, this is Live's Touched by Pets, a show for
those who love and are loved by pets. I'm your host,
Lisa d. Satnik, certified trainer with so much potential in Cincinnati, Ohio.
I'm really glad that you're here. Welcome. If you began
following my podcast last year. First of all, I really
(00:29):
want to thank you. Means the world to me because
I love doing these and I'm thrilled to be kicking
off twenty twenty five doing it with my own teacher,
doctor Mora Hechenleitner. You may remember her from last year.
Moya is a veterinarian and separation anxiety specialist who offers
(00:50):
consultations to both pet owners and trainers like myself. She's
an international speaker and guess what, She's organizing a virtual
separation Anxiety conference and I can't wait to go to it.
If you have plans on bringing home a new poppy
of rescue dog, this episode is for you. We are
(01:12):
talking about acclimating your new friend to alone time. What
what do we mean by that? Well, we're going to
answer that and when should you start? What considerations should
you take into account? And our tips for create training
that ends so much more. Let's get this started. Hi, Moya,
(01:34):
it's great to be back with you. Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, thank you so much for having me sure.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And you know this is my first episode back doing
the podcast, so this is really special.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh, thank you, thank you for chusing me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, you know, I adore you and I think the
world of what you do with separation anxiety. And this
is a topic that I've really wanted to cover for
a while because it comes up so often, both with
people that are getting new puppies and people who have
(02:13):
new rescues, but also it seems like something that comes
out of the woodwork also when puppies start going through
the phase of adolescence too, So we're talking about acclimating
to alone time. And I think this is going to
be a topic that's going to hit home for a
lot of people. So I'm really glad that we can
(02:35):
talk about it today instead of just waiting for it
to be full blown separation distress, Let's talk about, well,
how can we acclimate when they're starting to show signs,
or even before they're showing signs. When you're first bringing
a puppy home, they're brand new, you're kind of plucking
(02:56):
them out of the only place they ever knew. Now
you're bringing them to your house, all new surroundings, all
new people, all new everything. So that is it. Do
you think that's a good time to start with the
acclamation process.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's a great question, and I think we're I'm going
to try to separate this this question different answers because
I think it deserves to be talked about from different angles,
if you will. The first one would be the being
left alone, So rather than talking about creates, and I
know we're going to dive deep into creates. It's very
(03:37):
important subject and very popular subject out there, and there's
a lot of confusion, misunderstandings, and we will definitely cover that.
But first we have to think about the alone time
in itself. So when we get a puppy who just
a right to the home, or maybe it's not a puppy,
maybe it's a grown dog or an adolescent who was
(03:59):
rest or just adopt it and they are just starting
to live in this household. Although there are any guarantees
that whatever we do is going to prevent separation anxiety,
because we don't really know what causes separation anxiety. Therefore,
we can't really prevent it. There are things that we
could do to help them succeed or to set them
(04:20):
up for success to the best of our ability. One
of those is at first to allow them to be
comfortable and to create predictability around their lives when they
just arrived, so they can feel safe. I like to
think about both dogs and humans as beings who thrive
(04:40):
and any being really thrive from predictability and balance with flexibility.
Predictability in someone's lives within rituals, knowing what to expect
allows us to heal, to anchor, to feel safe, to
feel comfortable, not to be hyper vigilant all the time
waiting for the next thing to happen. And on the
(05:01):
other hand, flexibility allows us to grow, to push the
edges of our discomfort, to be stressed, but at a
level that we perhaps can handle, and can allow us
to become stronger and more resilient. So finding the right
balance between those at each given time will allow us
(05:23):
to have a puppy or a dog who is probably
going to be set up for success. And what does
this look like in practical ways? First, I would actually
try my best to avoid leaving the dog alone for
the first week, maybe the first two weeks. So rather
than adopting a dog in the kind of just spontaneously
(05:45):
out of the moment, like the of the moment of
excitement or something that really want to do, to really
think it through and plan an advance, so when the
dog arrives to your house, you actually can take some
time off and you're you're able to really provide that
safety space or safe space and that safety sense to
(06:07):
the dog. Once you have had a dog for maybe
one or two weeks and you haven't left them alone,
and you can see that the dog is starting to
feel much more comfortable in their own skin. They understand
that this is their home. They aren't all the time
super hyper vigilant looking for you. You're resting, they're relaxing.
(06:28):
Then you can start adding absences to the equation. And
it is important. We don't want to avoid them, right,
but we want to find the right time to start
introducing them. And once you start doing your absences and
we're talking, we're going to talk about this setup later.
In general, what you want is to have short gravel
absences so you can both assess that the dog is
(06:51):
actually doing okay and that there are no red flags
that you should be addressing in case the dog already
has separation anxiety since before he came to you, cheeking
to you, and you also want to help them a doubt.
So you're at this point starting to work on the
flexibility part of things, right, So you're pushing the dogs,
(07:11):
the dog to the edges of their discomfort by doing
little absences, maybe every other day, maybe once a day,
and maybe you can start with fifteen minutes twenty thirty.
The importance of this is to make it variable. So
even though you want to increase the duration over time,
you don't want to go five minutes, ten, fifteen thirty,
(07:31):
forty one hour because it's gonna get harder and harder
and harder, and that doesn't really work very well for anybody.
You want to vary it and increase gradually, and you
also want to monitor. You want to make sure you're
serving at least at first, at least for the first month,
so you can see different parameters or assess different parameters,
(07:52):
one of them being that the dog, if they react
at all, you can see that over the course of
the absence and in between in between the days, like
over time, they react less and less intensely and less
and less frequently, and they spend more and more time
relaxed while you're away, and that would be a right
thing to like basically a good flat saying hey, yes,
(08:15):
this is this is working in the right way.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So quick question when we talk about absences, it's sounding
like you're talking about actually leaving the home. What about
absences like while you're in the home with a puppy,
you know, we've got issues. You're working through house training
and you're working on you know, chewing on appropriate things,
(08:39):
and so there's the management piece. How does that plan
and is that what you're talking about or is that
separate or is it the same?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
One thing with separation society, that is something that is
not very talked about, and there's not a lot of
information or at least the correct information out there. It's
more and more, it's growing and it's improving at this point,
but there's still some misinformation out there. Is that when
(09:10):
you leave a dog and another room, let's say, and
you are trying to test out if they are okay
with being alone basically, but the dog can totally know
that you are outside or that you're outside the house.
But maybe like on the other side, of the door,
or there's a baby gate and you're in one room
and in there and the other. There are other components
that could be triggering the behaviors you're seeing, and one
(09:33):
of those, the big one, is frustration. And the problem
with that is that you are not going to know
if the dog is reacting due to frustration or due
to actual separation anxiety until you leave the property and
they perceive that you're gone. And so a good way
to start working with this is to actually leave the area,
(09:54):
but you can drive or walk, depending on the setup
of your household, until they can't proceed. Maybe that's two
houses down the road, just to a point where you
can wait and observe. And it's a short absence, so
at first you're not going to be doing anything real,
but over time, if you're seeing good results, you will
start using those absences to maybe go to the pharmacy,
(10:14):
get a coffee or something like that until they expand
and duration. But it is important to actually work on
leaving the property because it will allow us to understand
what is actually going on. Some clients arrive to me
thinking that their dog have separation anxiety because the only
times they have seen them react is when they were
(10:35):
I don't know, like mowing the law and outside or
washing the car, and the dog was barking and reacting
and vocalizing and escalating. And as soon as we did
an assessment with then them leaving the property, the dog
would look and say, Okay, I guess you're done. I
guess you're gone. I guess I just have to take
a nap, and they would just go and settle for
the remaining of the absence. So it is important to
(10:58):
actually do real absences. And you mentioned another thing and
I don't want to go ahead, but you mentioned about the
management and the puppies, right, So when we have a
puppy and we don't know if the dog is house
trained or if they are going to chew on things
that we don't want them to chew that could be
unsafe for them, the first biggest point is to make
(11:21):
sure that when you start doing those absences, all of
the dogs needs are met and that you're setting the
dog up for success. And this of course doesn't only
apply to puppies or dogs who just write, but any dog.
You want the dog to be comfortable to have had
walks and food and party time. So and also to
do this at a time where they are not expecting
(11:44):
to do something with you. Perhaps if you leave them
alone exactly at the time that they thought they were
going to go for a while with you, they might react.
But due to that you really want the instead of
trying them and make them fail, you really actually want
them to succeed, and so you prepare all of your
environment for that purpose, and then you leave them for
(12:04):
short periods of time. If they are puppies and they're
not house trained, or you're gonna know if they're gonna
chew on something, my usual advice is to block certain
areas of the house and make the house poppy proof
and the least intense way possible. What do I mean
with that? I mean that I try not to block
(12:25):
too much, but enough for the dog to be safe,
but not too much for the dog to feel so
restricted that if they confinement issues, they start reacting due
to that. And because you're starting sure. The cool thing
about this type of training is that because you're starting
short and they all need the needs of the dog
are met, you will set them up for success and
(12:48):
they will start learning that those fifteen minutes that they
were long on it was really enough time, and since
you're going to be extending this time gravelly, they start learning, well,
I guess when you were not here. Now I relax
and I wait for you to come back. And very
soon you have a dog who it was like a
(13:08):
win win. The dog learned to be left alone and
it the dog also learned to be okay when alone
without getting into trouble, without doing things that they didn't
supposed to, because they were able to succeed. And that
are and in many cases there's really no need of
doing anything else in terms of house training, in terms
(13:29):
of training on things, because this grows in a positive
way over time.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right, that's really helpful. You talked about predictability also, And
for those that don't know, what do you mean by predictability.
Are you meaning like we feed the food at the
same time or are you meaning we come in the
door and this is what the predictable pattern is going
to be for the dog its.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
West And yes, those are great examples. We want to
create some sort of routine, you know, even for us
when we during our weekdays, right, most of us, we
have a routine. We wake up at a certain time
and we take a shower, we have breakfast, we take
the dove out, and there's a certain smoothness, there's a
(14:20):
certain group about a routine in that allows us not
to really be thinking about every piece of it. It
sort of soothes our mind, our brain, and it allows
us to relax. Nothing unexpected is happening. So that could
look like exactly like, we wake up at a certain time,
you have breakfast, then we woke for a walk, and
we take a knob or you take an up while
I'm working. Then we go for a longer walk, and
(14:44):
here's where we sleep basically, And it's okay to change
it up a little bit, And I'm not really fond
of never changing anything. What I'm saying is that in
this particular context, when the dog is just arriving, that
can be very helpful Over time, you I do want
to become flexible. So if any changes happen in the
(15:05):
dog's life, they're probably not going to be They're likely
not going to be traumatizing enough to trigger something we
don't want. We believe separational society is triggered by traumatizing events,
and that there is a genetic predisposition and both things
together basically triggered the onset of separation asiety. So if
the dog doesn't really find anything traumatizing because they are
(15:29):
so flexible with change, they are so adaptable, even if
they have the genetic predisposition, it likely won't never be
triggered because the dog never felt uncomfortable. So we do
want to add those little things here and there, and
maybe in the future they whenever we are available and
(15:49):
we give them food. Like there is no necessarily a
super tight schedule, but that comes with time and once
the dog has become comfortable and has healed their past
after going.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
To you, okay the crate. So I know they're differing
paid onions. I tend to think, you know, I mean,
it's the one time that the puppies are going to
need that much sleep in their life, and you know,
(16:26):
just making it so comfortable and you're sitting right there
with them. You know, you're getting all their needs met
and they're you know, they're good and tired too, and
they're really needing to rest, and just helping and soothing
them and giving them comforting things in the crate and
just starting to condition them to teach them that that
(16:47):
create is just really comfortable and it can be a
really safe place too. What what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
See you laughing at you? So there are And I'll
explain how I do it if I need to, which
I think is very similar to how you approach it.
But I would like to make two big distinctions that
I think are very important to keep in mind when
(17:21):
you when you welcome a new dog and to your house.
The first one, and I'm going to give you we're
talking right Lisa before we started this podcast about me
becoming a yoga teacher last year, and I'll have a point,
I promise. I became after many years of practice and yoga,
I decided to deepen my practice and I went into
(17:43):
a two hour, two hundred hour yoga teacher training last year.
And while I was doing that, one of I remember,
in one of the classes and one of my sessions
with my teachers, one of them said, you do have
to design your class, right. You have to have a
goal in mind when you decide you when you design
(18:03):
your class, and it has to have different pieces, you know,
like warming up and getting deep into your poses and
then cooling down and all of that. And so she said, yes,
please do that and make sure that you add everything
you think about. However, once you get to your class,
(18:23):
remember that information and then let it go and be there,
present and do what it needs to be done. Why
Because you can plan the most beautiful class with the
craziest transitions. Everything is super funcy. And then you get
to give your class. You right to the place, and
maybe you have a couple of beginner you know, students
(18:46):
that don't understand anything of the things that you thought
you were going to teach. Maybe you have a few
people with different injuries that they can't really do what
you were thinking and make it. You start teaching, and
everybody looks so tired, and you can tell that it's
just too much for them. And you can't just keep
going with your script because they're not going and you're
the class, and it's not gonna be successful than in
(19:08):
any way, right, you have to change things up as
you go. Oh, and you have to honor each situation.
You have to Rather than following something because you learn
it that way, you have to actually continue to assess
and make decisions based on what you're seeing. Why am
I telling you all the story is because what the
(19:30):
first thing I would recommend is to stay open. So yes,
creates can be great and you can try it out
with your dog. But if your dog doesn't respond well
to the create and you try different things and you
see that the dog is actually having a very hard
time and they can't have confinement issues, which is different
on separation and side. Basically, it's an aversion to the
(19:51):
creative itself to be or not even the create, to
being restricted feel and restricted and maybe when they're left
free in the house, are totally fine. Some dogs can
have both. They can have great issues or confinement issues
and also separation anxiety. MENI. They react on alone, but
if you put them in a confinement space, they react
more intensely and more frequently. So if you start observing
(20:14):
that in your dog, it's okay. You don't have to
use confinement. There are ways around it, and you can
be completely successful with your dog free in the house.
It's not a bad thing. You didn't fail the class.
It's totally fine. And that's I think that's the most
important thing to remember. If you're going to remember one
(20:35):
thing about this podcast, remember that, because I get so
many clients who arrive to me so frustrated because they
have either create or confinement in so many ways, and
their heartbroken and they just don't want to keep working anymore.
They think there's no solution, and it only takes to
see how the dog does for in the house to
solve the situation. So stay open. And that was one
(20:59):
of the things I wanted to say. And the second
thing I was going to say I totally forgot because
I got too excited with my exclamation. But thinking about
coming by, oh, I remember. The second main point is
that I believe on this is my opinion. I believe
that if you're going to be leaving your dog eight
(21:20):
hours alone and the long term, you may not really
want to leave them in a crate. I believe a
crate is very small and it shouldn't really be a
long term solution. I agree with you that it can
help to create balance in the resting periods and activity
periods and the house training for a puppy, And it
also has many other goals, maybe traveling by car, maybe
(21:43):
being at the hospital like at a bad clinic, maybe
traveling by air of course, or doing sports.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
With your dog.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
But I don't think about the create necessarily as a
place for the dog to be left alone forever. So
I usually put all of my attention into working and
a setup that allows us to quickly teach the dog
to be left free, because that's the setup I want
to replicate in the long run. And that's why I
sort of manage the environment and the best way I
(22:13):
can to to allow the dog to be safe. And
I really focus on the house training and in the
chewing of things. I put all my might on that
because if we have that result in two weeks, then
nothing else matters, because if there's no there's no danger anymore, right,
and we can leave the dog alone without any issues.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, And you know, I totally I'm right there. I
didn't say that, but I absolutely. I mean, yeah, I
were assessing, you know, the individual that's in front of us.
It's always a study one and what's going on with
that with that dog or puppy. And yeah, so those
(22:56):
are excellent points.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Sure, if you want to work on the crate for
the uphire reasons that we mentioned, right, and what you
were pointing out, like what if we need to really
help this puppy to take naps and to settle how
do we you mentioned the I don't think you mentioned
it on air, but you mentioned to me your approach,
(23:19):
and I really like it because basically, what I read
from your description is that while you were working on
the crate, you weren't leaving the dog in the crate.
And I think that's the key point because the same
as with separation anxiety training, if a dog has separation anxiety,
what do we do. We introduce gradual absences at a
(23:43):
point that the dog can handle, right under threshold, where
the dog feels safe and comfortable, and we expand the
duration from that point on, and we at the same time,
parallel to that, we suspend absences real absences. We're not
leaving the dog alan we're not exploded them to that
trigger while we're teaching them that that trigger is safe,
(24:04):
because it would be counterproductive, right, So what happens with
the creed is that we tend to forget that, and
I think that's the biggest mistake and the reason for
failure for so many types of crate training is that, yeah, sure,
you do. Your training session is super fun. You teach
the dog to go to the create, you give them
(24:25):
treats and all of that stuff, but then you actually
have to leave and you leave your dog in the
crate for eight hours if the dog is over threshold
at that duration and they create one left alone, which
adds to that bucket of stress. Right, it's a trigger
stacking situation. Maybe the dog is okay in the crate
when you're sitting beside him, but if then you league
(24:46):
adds up. So if you're exposing the dog to a
very aversive situation at the same time as you're trying
to teach that same dog that this is fun and okay,
it's very unlikely that you're gonna make progress. And I
love your approach because you were mentioning that you actually
don't use the crate until the dog has achieved a
(25:08):
certain amount of time in the create comfortable with you
out of side, and that's exactly the same approach I
would have.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah, we can go on a whole tangent about
the crate, but you know, and I just had a
client the other day went through similar things. Her puppy
was very anxious in the crate, she didn't think she
could use the crate, and I talked to her about
what my approach, and within a weekend, her puppy was
(25:37):
very comfortable and sleeping in the crate. So, yeah, you know,
just making sure, it's one time that you've got that
your puppy needs that much sleep, and you you know,
if you're exercising their mind and body, and then you
know you're making it super super comfortable and you're just
(25:58):
right there with your puppy. I kind of give some
some comforting food to why they're why they're laying down,
and do not close it. Just it's just a comfortable place.
If they want to come out, they're welcome to come out,
but make it so comfortable that they choose to go
in there until they till they saddle. But yeah, not
even like closing the door or anything until they're very
(26:22):
very comfortable with it, and then having a webcam on
it to to make sure. But I remember the day
that I was able to go to the grocery store.
That's such a big deal. I was looking at my
phone the whole time when making sure he was okay.
And now you know, my dog has different anxiety issues.
(26:44):
In the crate is very much his safe place and
he loves to be you know, spent time in that crate.
So yeah, but when when people don't work through it,
you know, a couple other things around this tangent. Another
thing people talk about is well, we've got to feed
our dog in the crate, and got to do all
(27:05):
these things in the crate. But if you're not making
it a safe place, feeding the dog and the crate
can also you know, have a negative effect totally.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That's a very very very good point and I'm glad
you made it because I get a lot of cases
in which they have been trying to feed the dog
in the crate. And if one thing, one way I
like to think about is that they're not a dress.
Are full of little compartments that you can kind of
(27:38):
put different anxieties and different issues in different drawers and
nothing gets contaminated with each other. Instead, they actually like
soup like a pull. Everything gets mixed up, right. So
if you're adding a certain amount of stress in one
area of the dog's life, it's to spill over other areas.
(27:58):
And if you're forcing them to eat and a situation
where they feel very unsafe and uncomfortable, and they basically
because that's where they eat the whole ration of the day.
If they're not there, they don't eat, basically, And what's
happening is that they learn to eat in a distress,
in a state of distress that's not comfortable. Imagine if
(28:19):
we had to always eat in a way that's very
comfortable and uncomfortable, and we feel like we're running away
from a serial killer while we're eating our dinner, it's
probably going to cause issues, medical issues, and anxiety issues.
It's it's gonna add up. So you don't really want
to force the dog at that level. You want to
(28:41):
either give them food in a place where they feel
super comfortable so they can enjoy their food, they can relax,
they can have that predictability we're talking about that is safe.
I got your back, basically, in a way, we're telling
them I got your back. If I am asking you
to do something a little bit harder than you can,
it's always to be about the rest of the things
(29:02):
that you can trust me on. So all of this
life that we have together you can trust me with.
You're gonna be safe. And we're gonna add these little
things here and they're a little bit harder, but we're
gonna work as a team and it's never gonna jeopardize
the rest of your safety, like daily safety. Basically, I hope,
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, makes a lot of sense, And.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I thought that you you add like food, and that
you leave, and that you make the create to be
a safe place because they have the choice to be
there or not. It's not we're not shuffling them in
and telling them you have to be there because you're
supposed to be in a create because you're done. No,
You're you're actually telling them this is an amazing place
(29:48):
to be. If you don't want to be there, that's
okay too, and that will likely, as you were mentioning,
help them to actually feel comfortable there there and seeking
it in the future.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah, I can see this has been really a
helpful discussion for a lot of people because this is
a big topic for everyone who brings a new puppy
or rescue into the home. So yeah, oh, I really
appreciate you being here and talking to this. Is there
(30:20):
anything else that when it comes to acclimating to alone time?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I think that one other aspect of the crate, and
I remember you mentioning it and your produgal as well,
was we when do we start to leave the area?
So we or the area where the creed is right, So,
as you were mentioning, first we want to make sure
the dog is comfortable in the crate with the door open,
then with the door closed with us around, and then
(30:49):
maybe we go to the kitchen and come back and
it takes us three seconds and they're still okay, And
slowly we build duration of us not being able to
see us, and in this part case different than what
we talked before about assessing absences after the dog has
adapted to we live in our house here, Definitely, we
(31:10):
are not just gonna drive away and leave right We're
gonna go to another room and come back, and we're
gonna build duration with the dog comfortable without having us insight.
And then eventually when the dog is super proof and
super comfortable in that context, if we are going to
use it for a long time, then we can start
introducing a long time that set up, but only for
(31:32):
a duration that we know the dog is fine with
us in the create if we were with them basically,
or if we were out of sight, but in the house.
So we build from the care and we don't expose
them to higher durations or harder situations at other times,
only during training until we build that. And the other
(31:53):
thing that I remember we were talking about, I think
before the podcast is about where to set it up,
or if it's not a crate, even if it's just
a room of the house or some sort there's some
sort of baby gate and we are blocking a certain
area for the dog or an expan and how do
(32:13):
we set it up so it's set up for success.
So first I see that a lot and this is
my opinion, but I see a lot that creates are
located in place that are very very far away from
where I would be, And I understand the idea behind it.
That is to provide a dog with some sort of
relaxed place, you know, not noisy, where there's not a
(32:37):
lot of things around so they can rest. However, it
can actually be very very stressful because they're not used
to be there. It's like putting them in the dungeon.
It's not comfortable, it doesn't feel cozy. It's just a
weird punishment that they're just going to be here, like
in a weird out laundry space. So what I would
(32:59):
say suggest is for the create to be in a
place where they can see around. They even dogs without separationalnciety,
when you leave them alone, they like to anchor themselves
in places where they have visual access to everything, so
they know when you're coming back, they know when the
car is going to come back, They know how things
are developing because they can see them from that spot.
(33:23):
So I would go and do ahead with the same
with the create I would have it in a place
where they usually hang out with us, where they feel
comfortable hanging out, and where they ideally have visual access
to the door we need from and all of the
other areas that are important to them. If it's not
a cred then if you are confining your dog to
(33:43):
a certain area of the house, I would advise for
that area to be the one that has contact with
the door you're leading from. They tend to have as
easier time to deal with absences when they can see
where you go through basically or where you departure from,
(34:04):
rather than having let's say, being in a bedroom and
then not being able to see where you're going or
having a baby gate blocking the hallway where you can
like where you go out from. That tends to be
very restrictive, and with those with confinement issues tend to
have a very hard time dealing with that restriction. So
you want to allow them to kind of go and
(34:24):
check where you left from and that tends to help
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Does any of that change if you've got a busy
home with lots of little kids running around, I guess
probably want a gate around the perimeter of the creative
kids can't get right up to it. But even just
being an among where all the activity is, what are
(34:49):
your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (34:51):
That's definitely a harder situation. It's a good point, and
as we were discussing at the beginning, every dog is
an individual right and every household is a unique experience.
So it is important to assess each each each situation
as its own and find what works. It's hard to
(35:12):
make a decision without knowing a specific example, but definitely
we want to keep certain points in mind. We want
to have allow the dog to feel safe right without
feeling that they're always going to be grabbed and played over,
and so if they need that space, we are we
kind of what we're saying, we have a certain limitation
(35:34):
that allows them to not being in touch with the
kids if the kids have toys and stuff, maybe baby
gating the doorways of the kids rooms so the dog
doesn't get in trouble and there's no issues there. Like
things like that would be important to consider, And the
biggest part would be you can always trial and error.
(35:56):
Observing is your best friend, So find us up, but
don't get attached to it. Findal set up, try it out,
or serve it a couple of times, not only one,
maybe two, three times so you can see a trend.
How is this working? Is it getting better every time
I do this, or is it getting worse? And if
it works for you great. If you see that your
dog is having issues settling, it is hypervigilant and things
(36:20):
seem to be getting more and more tense, it means
in is that it's not working, and you should try
a little twig here and there to see how that
works out. Same with multiple dogs in the house that
I remember you mentioning, that's also going to change things.
Maybe I have a dog who I wouldn't choose to
leave confined, but then I have other dogs in the house.
(36:42):
I don't know. I'm not feeling comfortable with leaving them
together because they have research guarding or their behaviors or
I don't really know much. So you will have to
be flexible, and sometimes it's not going to be the
best best choice you would have made, but you will
have to settle for the second and best, just so
(37:04):
you can find a balance between safety and also comfort. Yeah,
one example, if I can add I, and I think
it's a good example to add. I don't have the
final answer because we're working through it right now, but
I have a current client and who they are fostering
(37:24):
this dog, and she is the sweetest dog, and she
was displaying behavior separation related behavior is one at home alone.
And so we assessed and the first assessment and there
are a lot of things going on, you know, she
hasn't been there for too long, so there is also
an adaptation you know component that is adding up to
(37:45):
the challenge. But we assessed, and the first assessment was
done with the other dog was their dog leaving with
them at the time of the assessment, so they would
clip the leash and bring the other dog with them
and leave in the car and driver. And she reacted
quite a bit. But the reactions seem to be cyclical
to me, and I wanted to see a little bit more.
(38:07):
So the homework was to do absences couple just to
observe if it was working for her or not. But
with the other dog in the bedroom and ste proven
that the other dog was okay in the bedroom, and
it changed the whole picture. She whined a couple of times,
and then she went and subtled, which tells me, well,
(38:28):
bringing the other seeing the other dog leaving is probably
pretty frustrating for her because everybody's leaving me and I'm
just the only ones stay here. But when that is
not part of the equation, I can handle this much more.
Some dogs may react and whine when the other dog
is confined, and you will have to find a way
to work through that. But again, same message, staying open
(38:50):
and finding what is the right combination for each dog
is what's gonna Ultimately said, you offer success.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
That brings up a whole nother point. I just try
and be brief with this, But there are lots of dogs,
are puppies that come into homes that are so hyper
attached to the other dog that they actually have anxiety
when the other dog leaves. Not so much the people,
(39:18):
but if the other dog is not present, they have
a lot of anxiety.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
What I would do with that is a couple of things,
so and I actually have I was editing a view
of that a couple of days ago to freshen my mind,
the first thing would be to actually assess that the
dog is okay when fully alone, but with the other
dog on board, Because if the dog is okay with
(39:49):
the other dog and as Tolio Kiddy, with being without
any humans in the house, basically it means that this
isn't likely separation anxiety in the sense that we we
define separation anxiety being the not being able to be
okay without humans. And if that's the case, I would
build a foundation with the dog being left with the
(40:11):
other dog without humans, because as that foundation gets stronger
and stronger and stronger, the dog is going to become
more comfortable beating alone.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
And then slowly, as I have that cushion of support
and the dog is stronger and more resilient, I can
start again adding that extra challenge, pushing the edges of
this comfort by now removing the other dog from the equation,
maybe not leaving with the other dog, but perhaps the
other dog is already away. And then I leave this
dog alone, and slowly I build a new set of criteria, right,
(40:46):
a new criteria here, but with the help of having
this foundation or cushion to allow me to succeed, and
the new extra difficulty that I'm adding.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Right, Yeah, see that happen a lot. Well, this has
just been such a great conversation. We went in a
number of different directions, but I think they're all really
really important for people. So I'm really glad that we
could do this and give people information they can learn
by and yeah at our animal welfare, better relationships, happier
(41:26):
in the home. Yeah, all for it.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Definitely. I think that we definitely went in a lot
of different directions which are all important to change the
mindset that dogs have to do what we think they
have to do, but rather learning about our dogs' needs
and observing them to understand what is that they need
(41:50):
at each given time and providing that with empathy. Yes,
we want to see the best out of them, we
want to help them succeed, we want to get to
certain goals, but understanding that we're a team rather than
I am the one who tells you what to do
and you have to do it because this is the
way it's supposed to go. It's going to be much
(42:10):
more successful and much healing and fun in the long run,
right if you have a dog, And so I think
that changing that mindset will allow everything else to fall
into place.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Well, thank you so much for spending time with me.
It's always great to see you again. And yeah, we'll
wrap it up with this, so thank you for people
to find you. We are going to have a link
in my show notes, but real quickly, what is your website?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
My website is Separation onsideydog dot com and they can
find everything there, so if a never I'll be happy
to help. And thank you so much for having me.
It was a lot of fun. Always fun to talk
with you and to you know, save the world.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Together, one dog at a time.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider
subscribing to.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
My podcast, come back often and tell your friends.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
If I can be of any help to you and
your pet, please reach out to me via my website
www dot so much potential dot com and for a
lot more information, fun and videos, please follow me so
Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. See you soon.
Hi, this is Live's Touched by Pets, a show for
those who love and are loved by pets. I'm your host,
Lisa d. Satnik, certified trainer with so much potential in Cincinnati, Ohio.
I'm really glad that you're here. Welcome. If you began
following my podcast last year. First of all, I really
(00:29):
want to thank you. Means the world to me because
I love doing these and I'm thrilled to be kicking
off twenty twenty five doing it with my own teacher,
doctor Mora Hechenleitner. You may remember her from last year.
Moya is a veterinarian and separation anxiety specialist who offers
(00:50):
consultations to both pet owners and trainers like myself. She's
an international speaker and guess what, She's organizing a virtual
separation Anxiety conference and I can't wait to go to it.
If you have plans on bringing home a new poppy
of rescue dog, this episode is for you. We are
(01:12):
talking about acclimating your new friend to alone time. What
what do we mean by that? Well, we're going to
answer that and when should you start? What considerations should
you take into account? And our tips for create training
that ends so much more. Let's get this started. Hi, Moya,
(01:34):
it's great to be back with you. Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Yes, thank you so much for having me sure.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
And you know this is my first episode back doing
the podcast, so this is really special.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh, thank you, thank you for chusing me.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, you know, I adore you and I think the
world of what you do with separation anxiety. And this
is a topic that I've really wanted to cover for
a while because it comes up so often, both with
people that are getting new puppies and people who have
(02:13):
new rescues, but also it seems like something that comes
out of the woodwork also when puppies start going through
the phase of adolescence too, So we're talking about acclimating
to alone time. And I think this is going to
be a topic that's going to hit home for a
lot of people. So I'm really glad that we can
(02:35):
talk about it today instead of just waiting for it
to be full blown separation distress, Let's talk about, well,
how can we acclimate when they're starting to show signs,
or even before they're showing signs. When you're first bringing
a puppy home, they're brand new, you're kind of plucking
(02:56):
them out of the only place they ever knew. Now
you're bringing them to your house, all new surroundings, all
new people, all new everything. So that is it. Do
you think that's a good time to start with the
acclamation process.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
That's a great question, and I think we're I'm going
to try to separate this this question different answers because
I think it deserves to be talked about from different angles,
if you will. The first one would be the being
left alone, So rather than talking about creates, and I
know we're going to dive deep into creates. It's very
(03:37):
important subject and very popular subject out there, and there's
a lot of confusion, misunderstandings, and we will definitely cover that.
But first we have to think about the alone time
in itself. So when we get a puppy who just
a right to the home, or maybe it's not a puppy,
maybe it's a grown dog or an adolescent who was
(03:59):
rest or just adopt it and they are just starting
to live in this household. Although there are any guarantees
that whatever we do is going to prevent separation anxiety,
because we don't really know what causes separation anxiety. Therefore,
we can't really prevent it. There are things that we
could do to help them succeed or to set them
(04:20):
up for success to the best of our ability. One
of those is at first to allow them to be
comfortable and to create predictability around their lives when they
just arrived, so they can feel safe. I like to
think about both dogs and humans as beings who thrive
(04:40):
and any being really thrive from predictability and balance with flexibility.
Predictability in someone's lives within rituals, knowing what to expect
allows us to heal, to anchor, to feel safe, to
feel comfortable, not to be hyper vigilant all the time
waiting for the next thing to happen. And on the
(05:01):
other hand, flexibility allows us to grow, to push the
edges of our discomfort, to be stressed, but at a
level that we perhaps can handle, and can allow us
to become stronger and more resilient. So finding the right
balance between those at each given time will allow us
(05:23):
to have a puppy or a dog who is probably
going to be set up for success. And what does
this look like in practical ways? First, I would actually
try my best to avoid leaving the dog alone for
the first week, maybe the first two weeks. So rather
than adopting a dog in the kind of just spontaneously
(05:45):
out of the moment, like the of the moment of
excitement or something that really want to do, to really
think it through and plan an advance, so when the
dog arrives to your house, you actually can take some
time off and you're you're able to really provide that
safety space or safe space and that safety sense to
(06:07):
the dog. Once you have had a dog for maybe
one or two weeks and you haven't left them alone,
and you can see that the dog is starting to
feel much more comfortable in their own skin. They understand
that this is their home. They aren't all the time
super hyper vigilant looking for you. You're resting, they're relaxing.
(06:28):
Then you can start adding absences to the equation. And
it is important. We don't want to avoid them, right,
but we want to find the right time to start
introducing them. And once you start doing your absences and
we're talking, we're going to talk about this setup later.
In general, what you want is to have short gravel
absences so you can both assess that the dog is
(06:51):
actually doing okay and that there are no red flags
that you should be addressing in case the dog already
has separation anxiety since before he came to you, cheeking
to you, and you also want to help them a doubt.
So you're at this point starting to work on the
flexibility part of things, right, So you're pushing the dogs,
(07:11):
the dog to the edges of their discomfort by doing
little absences, maybe every other day, maybe once a day,
and maybe you can start with fifteen minutes twenty thirty.
The importance of this is to make it variable. So
even though you want to increase the duration over time,
you don't want to go five minutes, ten, fifteen thirty,
(07:31):
forty one hour because it's gonna get harder and harder
and harder, and that doesn't really work very well for anybody.
You want to vary it and increase gradually, and you
also want to monitor. You want to make sure you're
serving at least at first, at least for the first month,
so you can see different parameters or assess different parameters,
(07:52):
one of them being that the dog, if they react
at all, you can see that over the course of
the absence and in between in between the days, like
over time, they react less and less intensely and less
and less frequently, and they spend more and more time
relaxed while you're away, and that would be a right
thing to like basically a good flat saying hey, yes,
(08:15):
this is this is working in the right way.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
So quick question when we talk about absences, it's sounding
like you're talking about actually leaving the home. What about
absences like while you're in the home with a puppy,
you know, we've got issues. You're working through house training
and you're working on you know, chewing on appropriate things,
(08:39):
and so there's the management piece. How does that plan
and is that what you're talking about or is that
separate or is it the same?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
One thing with separation society, that is something that is
not very talked about, and there's not a lot of
information or at least the correct information out there. It's
more and more, it's growing and it's improving at this point,
but there's still some misinformation out there. Is that when
(09:10):
you leave a dog and another room, let's say, and
you are trying to test out if they are okay
with being alone basically, but the dog can totally know
that you are outside or that you're outside the house.
But maybe like on the other side, of the door,
or there's a baby gate and you're in one room
and in there and the other. There are other components
that could be triggering the behaviors you're seeing, and one
(09:33):
of those, the big one, is frustration. And the problem
with that is that you are not going to know
if the dog is reacting due to frustration or due
to actual separation anxiety until you leave the property and
they perceive that you're gone. And so a good way
to start working with this is to actually leave the area,
(09:54):
but you can drive or walk, depending on the setup
of your household, until they can't proceed. Maybe that's two
houses down the road, just to a point where you
can wait and observe. And it's a short absence, so
at first you're not going to be doing anything real,
but over time, if you're seeing good results, you will
start using those absences to maybe go to the pharmacy,
(10:14):
get a coffee or something like that until they expand
and duration. But it is important to actually work on
leaving the property because it will allow us to understand
what is actually going on. Some clients arrive to me
thinking that their dog have separation anxiety because the only
times they have seen them react is when they were
(10:35):
I don't know, like mowing the law and outside or
washing the car, and the dog was barking and reacting
and vocalizing and escalating. And as soon as we did
an assessment with then them leaving the property, the dog
would look and say, Okay, I guess you're done. I
guess you're gone. I guess I just have to take
a nap, and they would just go and settle for
the remaining of the absence. So it is important to
(10:58):
actually do real absences. And you mentioned another thing and
I don't want to go ahead, but you mentioned about the
management and the puppies, right, So when we have a
puppy and we don't know if the dog is house
trained or if they are going to chew on things
that we don't want them to chew that could be
unsafe for them, the first biggest point is to make
(11:21):
sure that when you start doing those absences, all of
the dogs needs are met and that you're setting the
dog up for success. And this of course doesn't only
apply to puppies or dogs who just write, but any dog.
You want the dog to be comfortable to have had
walks and food and party time. So and also to
do this at a time where they are not expecting
(11:44):
to do something with you. Perhaps if you leave them
alone exactly at the time that they thought they were
going to go for a while with you, they might react.
But due to that you really want the instead of
trying them and make them fail, you really actually want
them to succeed, and so you prepare all of your
environment for that purpose, and then you leave them for
(12:04):
short periods of time. If they are puppies and they're
not house trained, or you're gonna know if they're gonna
chew on something, my usual advice is to block certain
areas of the house and make the house poppy proof
and the least intense way possible. What do I mean
with that? I mean that I try not to block
(12:25):
too much, but enough for the dog to be safe,
but not too much for the dog to feel so
restricted that if they confinement issues, they start reacting due
to that. And because you're starting sure. The cool thing
about this type of training is that because you're starting
short and they all need the needs of the dog
are met, you will set them up for success and
(12:48):
they will start learning that those fifteen minutes that they
were long on it was really enough time, and since
you're going to be extending this time gravelly, they start learning, well,
I guess when you were not here. Now I relax
and I wait for you to come back. And very
soon you have a dog who it was like a
(13:08):
win win. The dog learned to be left alone and
it the dog also learned to be okay when alone
without getting into trouble, without doing things that they didn't
supposed to, because they were able to succeed. And that
are and in many cases there's really no need of
doing anything else in terms of house training, in terms
(13:29):
of training on things, because this grows in a positive
way over time.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right, that's really helpful. You talked about predictability also, And
for those that don't know, what do you mean by predictability.
Are you meaning like we feed the food at the
same time or are you meaning we come in the
door and this is what the predictable pattern is going
to be for the dog its.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
West And yes, those are great examples. We want to
create some sort of routine, you know, even for us
when we during our weekdays, right, most of us, we
have a routine. We wake up at a certain time
and we take a shower, we have breakfast, we take
the dove out, and there's a certain smoothness, there's a
(14:20):
certain group about a routine in that allows us not
to really be thinking about every piece of it. It
sort of soothes our mind, our brain, and it allows
us to relax. Nothing unexpected is happening. So that could
look like exactly like, we wake up at a certain time,
you have breakfast, then we woke for a walk, and
we take a knob or you take an up while
I'm working. Then we go for a longer walk, and
(14:44):
here's where we sleep basically, And it's okay to change
it up a little bit, And I'm not really fond
of never changing anything. What I'm saying is that in
this particular context, when the dog is just arriving, that
can be very helpful Over time, you I do want
to become flexible. So if any changes happen in the
(15:05):
dog's life, they're probably not going to be They're likely
not going to be traumatizing enough to trigger something we
don't want. We believe separational society is triggered by traumatizing events,
and that there is a genetic predisposition and both things
together basically triggered the onset of separation asiety. So if
the dog doesn't really find anything traumatizing because they are
(15:29):
so flexible with change, they are so adaptable, even if
they have the genetic predisposition, it likely won't never be
triggered because the dog never felt uncomfortable. So we do
want to add those little things here and there, and
maybe in the future they whenever we are available and
(15:49):
we give them food. Like there is no necessarily a
super tight schedule, but that comes with time and once
the dog has become comfortable and has healed their past
after going.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
To you, okay the crate. So I know they're differing
paid onions. I tend to think, you know, I mean,
it's the one time that the puppies are going to
need that much sleep in their life, and you know,
(16:26):
just making it so comfortable and you're sitting right there
with them. You know, you're getting all their needs met
and they're you know, they're good and tired too, and
they're really needing to rest, and just helping and soothing
them and giving them comforting things in the crate and
just starting to condition them to teach them that that
(16:47):
create is just really comfortable and it can be a
really safe place too. What what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
See you laughing at you? So there are And I'll
explain how I do it if I need to, which
I think is very similar to how you approach it.
But I would like to make two big distinctions that
I think are very important to keep in mind when
(17:21):
you when you welcome a new dog and to your house.
The first one, and I'm going to give you we're
talking right Lisa before we started this podcast about me
becoming a yoga teacher last year, and I'll have a point,
I promise. I became after many years of practice and yoga,
I decided to deepen my practice and I went into
(17:43):
a two hour, two hundred hour yoga teacher training last year.
And while I was doing that, one of I remember,
in one of the classes and one of my sessions
with my teachers, one of them said, you do have
to design your class, right. You have to have a
goal in mind when you decide you when you design
(18:03):
your class, and it has to have different pieces, you know,
like warming up and getting deep into your poses and
then cooling down and all of that. And so she said, yes,
please do that and make sure that you add everything
you think about. However, once you get to your class,
(18:23):
remember that information and then let it go and be there,
present and do what it needs to be done. Why
Because you can plan the most beautiful class with the
craziest transitions. Everything is super funcy. And then you get
to give your class. You right to the place, and
maybe you have a couple of beginner you know, students
(18:46):
that don't understand anything of the things that you thought
you were going to teach. Maybe you have a few
people with different injuries that they can't really do what
you were thinking and make it. You start teaching, and
everybody looks so tired, and you can tell that it's
just too much for them. And you can't just keep
going with your script because they're not going and you're
the class, and it's not gonna be successful than in
(19:08):
any way, right, you have to change things up as
you go. Oh, and you have to honor each situation.
You have to Rather than following something because you learn
it that way, you have to actually continue to assess
and make decisions based on what you're seeing. Why am
I telling you all the story is because what the
(19:30):
first thing I would recommend is to stay open. So yes,
creates can be great and you can try it out
with your dog. But if your dog doesn't respond well
to the create and you try different things and you
see that the dog is actually having a very hard
time and they can't have confinement issues, which is different
on separation and side. Basically, it's an aversion to the
(19:51):
creative itself to be or not even the create, to
being restricted feel and restricted and maybe when they're left
free in the house, are totally fine. Some dogs can
have both. They can have great issues or confinement issues
and also separation anxiety. MENI. They react on alone, but
if you put them in a confinement space, they react
more intensely and more frequently. So if you start observing
(20:14):
that in your dog, it's okay. You don't have to
use confinement. There are ways around it, and you can
be completely successful with your dog free in the house.
It's not a bad thing. You didn't fail the class.
It's totally fine. And that's I think that's the most
important thing to remember. If you're going to remember one
(20:35):
thing about this podcast, remember that, because I get so
many clients who arrive to me so frustrated because they
have either create or confinement in so many ways, and
their heartbroken and they just don't want to keep working anymore.
They think there's no solution, and it only takes to
see how the dog does for in the house to
solve the situation. So stay open. And that was one
(20:59):
of the things I wanted to say. And the second
thing I was going to say I totally forgot because
I got too excited with my exclamation. But thinking about
coming by, oh, I remember. The second main point is
that I believe on this is my opinion. I believe
that if you're going to be leaving your dog eight
(21:20):
hours alone and the long term, you may not really
want to leave them in a crate. I believe a
crate is very small and it shouldn't really be a
long term solution. I agree with you that it can
help to create balance in the resting periods and activity
periods and the house training for a puppy, And it
also has many other goals, maybe traveling by car, maybe
(21:43):
being at the hospital like at a bad clinic, maybe
traveling by air of course, or doing sports.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
With your dog.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
But I don't think about the create necessarily as a
place for the dog to be left alone forever. So
I usually put all of my attention into working and
a setup that allows us to quickly teach the dog
to be left free, because that's the setup I want
to replicate in the long run. And that's why I
sort of manage the environment and the best way I
(22:13):
can to to allow the dog to be safe. And
I really focus on the house training and in the
chewing of things. I put all my might on that
because if we have that result in two weeks, then
nothing else matters, because if there's no there's no danger anymore, right,
and we can leave the dog alone without any issues.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Right.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Yeah, And you know, I totally I'm right there. I
didn't say that, but I absolutely. I mean, yeah, I
were assessing, you know, the individual that's in front of us.
It's always a study one and what's going on with
that with that dog or puppy. And yeah, so those
(22:56):
are excellent points.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Sure, if you want to work on the crate for
the uphire reasons that we mentioned, right, and what you
were pointing out, like what if we need to really
help this puppy to take naps and to settle how
do we you mentioned the I don't think you mentioned
it on air, but you mentioned to me your approach,
(23:19):
and I really like it because basically, what I read
from your description is that while you were working on
the crate, you weren't leaving the dog in the crate.
And I think that's the key point because the same
as with separation anxiety training, if a dog has separation anxiety,
what do we do. We introduce gradual absences at a
(23:43):
point that the dog can handle, right under threshold, where
the dog feels safe and comfortable, and we expand the
duration from that point on, and we at the same time,
parallel to that, we suspend absences real absences. We're not
leaving the dog alan we're not exploded them to that
trigger while we're teaching them that that trigger is safe,
(24:04):
because it would be counterproductive, right, So what happens with
the creed is that we tend to forget that, and
I think that's the biggest mistake and the reason for
failure for so many types of crate training is that, yeah, sure,
you do. Your training session is super fun. You teach
the dog to go to the create, you give them
(24:25):
treats and all of that stuff, but then you actually
have to leave and you leave your dog in the
crate for eight hours if the dog is over threshold
at that duration and they create one left alone, which
adds to that bucket of stress. Right, it's a trigger
stacking situation. Maybe the dog is okay in the crate
when you're sitting beside him, but if then you league
(24:46):
adds up. So if you're exposing the dog to a
very aversive situation at the same time as you're trying
to teach that same dog that this is fun and okay,
it's very unlikely that you're gonna make progress. And I
love your approach because you were mentioning that you actually
don't use the crate until the dog has achieved a
(25:08):
certain amount of time in the create comfortable with you
out of side, and that's exactly the same approach I
would have.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah, we can go on a whole tangent about
the crate, but you know, and I just had a
client the other day went through similar things. Her puppy
was very anxious in the crate, she didn't think she
could use the crate, and I talked to her about
what my approach, and within a weekend, her puppy was
(25:37):
very comfortable and sleeping in the crate. So, yeah, you know,
just making sure, it's one time that you've got that
your puppy needs that much sleep, and you you know,
if you're exercising their mind and body, and then you
know you're making it super super comfortable and you're just
(25:58):
right there with your puppy. I kind of give some
some comforting food to why they're why they're laying down,
and do not close it. Just it's just a comfortable place.
If they want to come out, they're welcome to come out,
but make it so comfortable that they choose to go
in there until they till they saddle. But yeah, not
even like closing the door or anything until they're very
(26:22):
very comfortable with it, and then having a webcam on
it to to make sure. But I remember the day
that I was able to go to the grocery store.
That's such a big deal. I was looking at my
phone the whole time when making sure he was okay.
And now you know, my dog has different anxiety issues.
(26:44):
In the crate is very much his safe place and
he loves to be you know, spent time in that crate.
So yeah, but when when people don't work through it,
you know, a couple other things around this tangent. Another
thing people talk about is well, we've got to feed
our dog in the crate, and got to do all
(27:05):
these things in the crate. But if you're not making
it a safe place, feeding the dog and the crate
can also you know, have a negative effect totally.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
That's a very very very good point and I'm glad
you made it because I get a lot of cases
in which they have been trying to feed the dog
in the crate. And if one thing, one way I
like to think about is that they're not a dress.
Are full of little compartments that you can kind of
(27:38):
put different anxieties and different issues in different drawers and
nothing gets contaminated with each other. Instead, they actually like
soup like a pull. Everything gets mixed up, right. So
if you're adding a certain amount of stress in one
area of the dog's life, it's to spill over other areas.
(27:58):
And if you're forcing them to eat and a situation
where they feel very unsafe and uncomfortable, and they basically
because that's where they eat the whole ration of the day.
If they're not there, they don't eat, basically, And what's
happening is that they learn to eat in a distress,
in a state of distress that's not comfortable. Imagine if
(28:19):
we had to always eat in a way that's very
comfortable and uncomfortable, and we feel like we're running away
from a serial killer while we're eating our dinner, it's
probably going to cause issues, medical issues, and anxiety issues.
It's it's gonna add up. So you don't really want
to force the dog at that level. You want to
(28:41):
either give them food in a place where they feel
super comfortable so they can enjoy their food, they can relax,
they can have that predictability we're talking about that is safe.
I got your back, basically, in a way, we're telling
them I got your back. If I am asking you
to do something a little bit harder than you can,
it's always to be about the rest of the things
(29:02):
that you can trust me on. So all of this
life that we have together you can trust me with.
You're gonna be safe. And we're gonna add these little
things here and they're a little bit harder, but we're
gonna work as a team and it's never gonna jeopardize
the rest of your safety, like daily safety. Basically, I hope,
I hope that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, makes a lot of sense, And.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I thought that you you add like food, and that
you leave, and that you make the create to be
a safe place because they have the choice to be
there or not. It's not we're not shuffling them in
and telling them you have to be there because you're
supposed to be in a create because you're done. No,
You're you're actually telling them this is an amazing place
(29:48):
to be. If you don't want to be there, that's
okay too, and that will likely, as you were mentioning,
help them to actually feel comfortable there there and seeking
it in the future.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
Yeah, yeah, I can see this has been really a
helpful discussion for a lot of people because this is
a big topic for everyone who brings a new puppy
or rescue into the home. So yeah, oh, I really
appreciate you being here and talking to this. Is there
(30:20):
anything else that when it comes to acclimating to alone time?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
I think that one other aspect of the crate, and
I remember you mentioning it and your produgal as well,
was we when do we start to leave the area?
So we or the area where the creed is right, So,
as you were mentioning, first we want to make sure
the dog is comfortable in the crate with the door open,
then with the door closed with us around, and then
(30:49):
maybe we go to the kitchen and come back and
it takes us three seconds and they're still okay, And
slowly we build duration of us not being able to
see us, and in this part case different than what
we talked before about assessing absences after the dog has
adapted to we live in our house here, Definitely, we
(31:10):
are not just gonna drive away and leave right We're
gonna go to another room and come back, and we're
gonna build duration with the dog comfortable without having us insight.
And then eventually when the dog is super proof and
super comfortable in that context, if we are going to
use it for a long time, then we can start
introducing a long time that set up, but only for
(31:32):
a duration that we know the dog is fine with
us in the create if we were with them basically,
or if we were out of sight, but in the house.
So we build from the care and we don't expose
them to higher durations or harder situations at other times,
only during training until we build that. And the other
(31:53):
thing that I remember we were talking about, I think
before the podcast is about where to set it up,
or if it's not a crate, even if it's just
a room of the house or some sort there's some
sort of baby gate and we are blocking a certain
area for the dog or an expan and how do
(32:13):
we set it up so it's set up for success.
So first I see that a lot and this is
my opinion, but I see a lot that creates are
located in place that are very very far away from
where I would be, And I understand the idea behind it.
That is to provide a dog with some sort of
relaxed place, you know, not noisy, where there's not a
(32:37):
lot of things around so they can rest. However, it
can actually be very very stressful because they're not used
to be there. It's like putting them in the dungeon.
It's not comfortable, it doesn't feel cozy. It's just a
weird punishment that they're just going to be here, like
in a weird out laundry space. So what I would
(32:59):
say suggest is for the create to be in a
place where they can see around. They even dogs without separationalnciety,
when you leave them alone, they like to anchor themselves
in places where they have visual access to everything, so
they know when you're coming back, they know when the
car is going to come back, They know how things
are developing because they can see them from that spot.
(33:23):
So I would go and do ahead with the same
with the create I would have it in a place
where they usually hang out with us, where they feel
comfortable hanging out, and where they ideally have visual access
to the door we need from and all of the
other areas that are important to them. If it's not
a cred then if you are confining your dog to
(33:43):
a certain area of the house, I would advise for
that area to be the one that has contact with
the door you're leading from. They tend to have as
easier time to deal with absences when they can see
where you go through basically or where you departure from,
(34:04):
rather than having let's say, being in a bedroom and
then not being able to see where you're going or
having a baby gate blocking the hallway where you can
like where you go out from. That tends to be
very restrictive, and with those with confinement issues tend to
have a very hard time dealing with that restriction. So
you want to allow them to kind of go and
(34:24):
check where you left from and that tends to help
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Does any of that change if you've got a busy
home with lots of little kids running around, I guess
probably want a gate around the perimeter of the creative
kids can't get right up to it. But even just
being an among where all the activity is, what are
(34:49):
your thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (34:51):
That's definitely a harder situation. It's a good point, and
as we were discussing at the beginning, every dog is
an individual right and every household is a unique experience.
So it is important to assess each each each situation
as its own and find what works. It's hard to
(35:12):
make a decision without knowing a specific example, but definitely
we want to keep certain points in mind. We want
to have allow the dog to feel safe right without
feeling that they're always going to be grabbed and played over,
and so if they need that space, we are we
kind of what we're saying, we have a certain limitation
(35:34):
that allows them to not being in touch with the
kids if the kids have toys and stuff, maybe baby
gating the doorways of the kids rooms so the dog
doesn't get in trouble and there's no issues there. Like
things like that would be important to consider, And the
biggest part would be you can always trial and error.
(35:56):
Observing is your best friend, So find us up, but
don't get attached to it. Findal set up, try it out,
or serve it a couple of times, not only one,
maybe two, three times so you can see a trend.
How is this working? Is it getting better every time
I do this, or is it getting worse? And if
it works for you great. If you see that your
dog is having issues settling, it is hypervigilant and things
(36:20):
seem to be getting more and more tense, it means
in is that it's not working, and you should try
a little twig here and there to see how that
works out. Same with multiple dogs in the house that
I remember you mentioning, that's also going to change things.
Maybe I have a dog who I wouldn't choose to
leave confined, but then I have other dogs in the house.
(36:42):
I don't know. I'm not feeling comfortable with leaving them
together because they have research guarding or their behaviors or
I don't really know much. So you will have to
be flexible, and sometimes it's not going to be the
best best choice you would have made, but you will
have to settle for the second and best, just so
(37:04):
you can find a balance between safety and also comfort. Yeah,
one example, if I can add I, and I think
it's a good example to add. I don't have the
final answer because we're working through it right now, but
I have a current client and who they are fostering
(37:24):
this dog, and she is the sweetest dog, and she
was displaying behavior separation related behavior is one at home alone.
And so we assessed and the first assessment and there
are a lot of things going on, you know, she
hasn't been there for too long, so there is also
an adaptation you know component that is adding up to
(37:45):
the challenge. But we assessed, and the first assessment was
done with the other dog was their dog leaving with
them at the time of the assessment, so they would
clip the leash and bring the other dog with them
and leave in the car and driver. And she reacted
quite a bit. But the reactions seem to be cyclical
to me, and I wanted to see a little bit more.
(38:07):
So the homework was to do absences couple just to
observe if it was working for her or not. But
with the other dog in the bedroom and ste proven
that the other dog was okay in the bedroom, and
it changed the whole picture. She whined a couple of times,
and then she went and subtled, which tells me, well,
(38:28):
bringing the other seeing the other dog leaving is probably
pretty frustrating for her because everybody's leaving me and I'm
just the only ones stay here. But when that is
not part of the equation, I can handle this much more.
Some dogs may react and whine when the other dog
is confined, and you will have to find a way
to work through that. But again, same message, staying open
(38:50):
and finding what is the right combination for each dog
is what's gonna Ultimately said, you offer success.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
That brings up a whole nother point. I just try
and be brief with this, But there are lots of dogs,
are puppies that come into homes that are so hyper
attached to the other dog that they actually have anxiety
when the other dog leaves. Not so much the people,
(39:18):
but if the other dog is not present, they have
a lot of anxiety.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
What I would do with that is a couple of things,
so and I actually have I was editing a view
of that a couple of days ago to freshen my mind,
the first thing would be to actually assess that the
dog is okay when fully alone, but with the other
dog on board, Because if the dog is okay with
(39:49):
the other dog and as Tolio Kiddy, with being without
any humans in the house, basically it means that this
isn't likely separation anxiety in the sense that we we
define separation anxiety being the not being able to be
okay without humans. And if that's the case, I would
build a foundation with the dog being left with the
(40:11):
other dog without humans, because as that foundation gets stronger
and stronger and stronger, the dog is going to become
more comfortable beating alone.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Right.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
And then slowly, as I have that cushion of support
and the dog is stronger and more resilient, I can
start again adding that extra challenge, pushing the edges of
this comfort by now removing the other dog from the equation,
maybe not leaving with the other dog, but perhaps the
other dog is already away. And then I leave this
dog alone, and slowly I build a new set of criteria, right,
(40:46):
a new criteria here, but with the help of having
this foundation or cushion to allow me to succeed, and
the new extra difficulty that I'm adding.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Right, Yeah, see that happen a lot. Well, this has
just been such a great conversation. We went in a
number of different directions, but I think they're all really
really important for people. So I'm really glad that we
could do this and give people information they can learn
by and yeah at our animal welfare, better relationships, happier
(41:26):
in the home. Yeah, all for it.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Definitely. I think that we definitely went in a lot
of different directions which are all important to change the
mindset that dogs have to do what we think they
have to do, but rather learning about our dogs' needs
and observing them to understand what is that they need
(41:50):
at each given time and providing that with empathy. Yes,
we want to see the best out of them, we
want to help them succeed, we want to get to
certain goals, but understanding that we're a team rather than
I am the one who tells you what to do
and you have to do it because this is the
way it's supposed to go. It's going to be much
(42:10):
more successful and much healing and fun in the long run,
right if you have a dog, And so I think
that changing that mindset will allow everything else to fall
into place.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Well, thank you so much for spending time with me.
It's always great to see you again. And yeah, we'll
wrap it up with this, so thank you for people
to find you. We are going to have a link
in my show notes, but real quickly, what is your website?
Speaker 2 (42:44):
My website is Separation onsideydog dot com and they can
find everything there, so if a never I'll be happy
to help. And thank you so much for having me.
It was a lot of fun. Always fun to talk
with you and to you know, save the world.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Together, one dog at a time.
Speaker 4 (43:07):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider
subscribing to.
Speaker 1 (43:12):
My podcast, come back often and tell your friends.
Speaker 4 (43:17):
If I can be of any help to you and
your pet, please reach out to me via my website
www dot so much potential dot com and for a
lot more information, fun and videos, please follow me so
Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. See you soon.
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