April 22, 2025 • 33 mins
Guest: Jessa Kenworthy CPDT-KA, ABCDT
Training Director at 4 Paws for Ability
Jessa has worked with 4 Paws for Ability placing life changing service dogs for over 16 years. Working with these dogs led her to an added passion of working with pet families at her local dog club and competing in multiple dog sports with her dogs. 4 Paws for Ability is a non-profit organization that breeds, raises, trains, and places service dogs with children and veterans who have disabilities. 4 Paws places over 120 service dogs annually, all trained with specific tasks and skills to mitigate the impacts of their partner’s disabilities. To date, more than 2,000 service dog teams have been created thanks to the dedication of our staff, volunteers, and donors. In this Episode, you will learn about the differences between:
a service dog
an emotional support dog
and a certified therapy dog
What is a service dog?
What is an emotional support dog?
What is the difference between and emotional support dog and a psychiatric service dog?
What is a therapy dog?
How are they trained?
Are their certifications?
Where are they allowed to be with their handler?
What types of work do they do?
Do they need to wear vests?
How can a business know if a service dog is a service dog?
For more information about 4 Paws for Ability, please visit: www.4pawsforabilityorg.
For more information on this podcast host, Lisa Desatnik, CPDT-KA, FFCP, FDM, CPBC, please visit:
www.SoMuchPETential.com.
Training Director at 4 Paws for Ability
Jessa has worked with 4 Paws for Ability placing life changing service dogs for over 16 years. Working with these dogs led her to an added passion of working with pet families at her local dog club and competing in multiple dog sports with her dogs. 4 Paws for Ability is a non-profit organization that breeds, raises, trains, and places service dogs with children and veterans who have disabilities. 4 Paws places over 120 service dogs annually, all trained with specific tasks and skills to mitigate the impacts of their partner’s disabilities. To date, more than 2,000 service dog teams have been created thanks to the dedication of our staff, volunteers, and donors. In this Episode, you will learn about the differences between:
a service dog
an emotional support dog
and a certified therapy dog
What is a service dog?
What is an emotional support dog?
What is the difference between and emotional support dog and a psychiatric service dog?
What is a therapy dog?
How are they trained?
Are their certifications?
Where are they allowed to be with their handler?
What types of work do they do?
Do they need to wear vests?
How can a business know if a service dog is a service dog?
For more information about 4 Paws for Ability, please visit: www.4pawsforabilityorg.
For more information on this podcast host, Lisa Desatnik, CPDT-KA, FFCP, FDM, CPBC, please visit:
www.SoMuchPETential.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hi, this is Livee's Touched by Pets, a show for
those who love and are loved by pets.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm your host, Lisa d.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Satnik, certified trainer with so much potential in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm really glad that you're here.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome service dogs, emotional support dogs, certified therapy dogs.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
We see an experience. They're good in so many settings, yet.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Understanding their jobs, understanding how to interact with them, and
understanding their rights. Knowing how these dogs differ is so
unclear to a lot of people, and you know what,
I have to admit, I'm one of them. Preparing for
this episode, I learned a lot and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Really excited for you to be able to learn a
lot here today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
This is a topic I've been wanting to cover for
a while. My guest is Tessa Kenworthy. She's a certified
dog trainer and training director for an organization I love,
called for Pause for Ability for Pause is a nonprofit
that trains service dogs for a variety of needs and
(01:22):
tasks that support children and veterans.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I can't wait for you to hear our discussion.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Let's get started, Hi, Jess, it's so great to see
you thanks for being with me today.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you so much, really appreciate being here. I'm bit excited.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, oh good. You know what, this is a topic
that I've wanted to do for so long, not only
because I get calls from time to time from people
that want to know can I train their dog? Maybe
their dog has some fear issues or reactivity issues outside
and they want to know can their dog be an
(02:00):
emotional support dog or service dog? Can you do the training?
And then there are people that are out and about
and don't understand the difference and what to do when
they see a dog, and so I just thought this
would be a really great conversation to have for so
many people. So I am really excited to delve into this.
(02:24):
So you're the training director of an organization called four
Pos for Ability, which I just love. I have so
much admiration for what you do. Can you explain what
you do and the types of service dogs that you train?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Absolutely, So if we're postifer ability, we train service dogs
for mostly children with disabilities. We do have a small
veterans program as well, so we'll place our dogs with
veterans as well as we have a small facility dog
program where we train dogs to go work in facility
and help with their services there. We've been around since
(03:04):
nineteen ninety eight, and this past November we placed our
two thousandth placement, which was a big, huge milestone for us.
We're very excited and the types of things that our
dogs are trained to do. We have a model where
all of our placements are specific to the need of
(03:25):
the family and the partner that they're supporting. So while
we certainly have some things that we see come up
a lot, we have that kind of Each dog is
trained on an individual basis to fit their family's needs.
So some of the most common things we train for
are what we call a behavior intervention service dog, which
(03:45):
is a dog who may do something like providing behavioral
support through calming or redirection. Other things they might do
is if a child has elopement behaviors, a child with autism,
sometimes they don't understand danger and so they might be
a flight risk, and so we can train the dogs
(04:07):
to do search and rescue called tracking, which is to
find their child, and they can do this in outdoor
and indoor environments. So even if they were to wander
off in a public mall type setting, the dog is
trained specifically to find their partner their child, and so
they're able to do that. We also have a tethering
(04:29):
system which helps prevent elopement by having the dog and
child connected via a safe tether where an adult is
still handling the dog and kind of making sure that
the team is all staying together and being safe. Another
very common type of placement that we have is our
seizure alert, where we train our dogs to detect seizures
(04:54):
and be able to alert to those seizures prior to
them occurring in MEDA incidences, as well as alerting to
those seizures in the moment that they're actually happening. And
then we once again because we're so kind of individualistic,
we have a bunch of other things that will kind
of do. We have mobility assistance dogs which can do
(05:16):
your typical turning on and off lights, opening and closing doors,
retrieving dropped items, helping put on clothes, hearing your dogs
which can alert to various sounds and either bring the
partner to that sound or give a specific queue that
lets them know what that sound is. And we also
(05:37):
provide balance support. So there's kind of a lot of
things going on there, but our most commonplacements are the
behavior intervention service dogs and the medical alert service dogs.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And what about for veterans?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
For veterans, we will often see for them that we're
providing some sort of mobility support typically or a medical
alert type support. We also will have sometimes where the
behavior intervention might be a part of their process and
what they get, but it is not the primary need
for a service dog when they come to us.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
It's mind boggling to think of all the different skills
that you have to teach these dogs. Yes, it's you know,
for every one of these things, and some of these
are sent you know related. Tell me about some of
the skills that would be involved in when you're teaching
(06:34):
a dog to do behavior intervention. What kind of skills
are you teaching these dogs?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, so for that kind of subset of tasks, the
skills that we're doing are we do a deep pressure
command where the dog will lay their body over top
of their partner, providing deep pressure. Which is that sense
of that deep pressure? I think we can all agree
it feels good, It helps to calm and relieve stress
(07:00):
and anxiety, and it could be utilized if the partner
is struggling with anxiety, or maybe their child who's had
a melt down and you know, they're really upset, and
so this can help calm them. We also have some
behaviors that are a little bit more kind of interrupting
(07:20):
specifically versus the more calming of the deep pressure that
that provides. So we do a nuzzle, which is where
the dog takes their head and their muzzle and they
will kind of bump at the partner's body, either by
kind of going up into a space, you know, if
they're kind of curled up in on themselves upset and crying,
then the dog can kind of stick their nose under
(07:43):
an arm and kind of bump up. And it's mostly
to say hey, instead of you know, being upset, why
don't you pay attention to me and let's cuddle and
let's pet or let's play fetch or you know, some
different things. So it helps interrupt whatever the behavior may be,
whether it is general upset or perhaps it is a
(08:03):
behavior that it could be harmful for the child or
the partner. You know, some of them stem by you know,
hitting their head potentially or doing something that is you know, yes,
it's a self soothing behavior. But it's not a self
soothing behavior that is healthy healthy for them. It can
it can harm themselves. So it's interrupting those type of
(08:27):
behaviors and redirecting them to other things, whether it's a
the calming pressure, deep pressure, or doing some tricks or
going and playing together.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
That's a lot. And I know that to teach a
dog to do all of these things, you're very particular
and how you raise the dog, because that also feeds
into having the dog that can do all these things
in a variety of situations. So tell me about your
process and how does this dog come to be a
(09:02):
service dog?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah. Absolutely, So it's a long process. We start before
the puppies are even born. We have a breeding program
and we breed all of our dogs so that they
are bread specifically for the work that we are hoping
to do with them. And those dogs that we select
as breeders are dogs that we would feel comfortable placing
(09:26):
as service dogs, because when you breed dogs together, you're
essentially saying, I want to make more of this. So
we want to make sure that what we want to
make more of is what would be a good service dog.
Our breeder dogs also go through very extensive health testing
that involve but not fully. Don't quote me on these
being all the things, because I'm sure there's gonna be
some of the pieces I'm interesting, but hip and elbow
(09:49):
X rays, different genetic testing, cardiology IE exams, like, they
get this huge, big gamut of testing that they have
to pass. Even if they're a really great temperament to
be a breeder dog, they have to pass all these
health exams because once again that also is a big part.
(10:09):
We want to make sure that our dogs are healthy, healthy, happy,
and long lived and able to do their jobs for
a very long time. Once a dog passes all those
stretcher exams for becoming a breeder dog, they're in homes
with families who love them as pets and care for them,
and then they come in and breed. We are very
(10:31):
very careful and selective with our breeding process as well
with as far as what dogs do we breed to
what other dogs, and that has to do with the genetics,
making sure dogs aren't too closely related, making sure health
wise that the puppies are going to be very health,
very healthy, and also that they're going to be the
type of personality and temperament we're looking for and the
(10:53):
type of dogs we're trying to get out of that litter.
So we might think to ourselves, you know, we want
a litter of dogs who's going to be more kind
of gentle and sensitive and motherly because we find those
type personalities tend to do really well with our medical alerts.
So that's the type of litter we want. So all
that kind of takes flicks in that determination. Once the
(11:16):
dogs are bred. Fast forward to the puppies being born,
and essentially they're in training from day one with all
sorts of different sensory things that we're exposing them to,
different smells and different touch textures. Is they don't have
their ears or eyes open yet, but they can smell
and they can feel, so we start with that all
right away. They go through a very rigorous puppy enrichment
(11:40):
program where they're learning they're just starting to learn all
those basics of being happy and comfortable and confident in
their environment, as well as you know, how to potty
train and how to sit and all those kind of
basic things. We have a prison program that our dogs
can go into, and a lot of our puppies go
(12:02):
into that prison program for those basics in those basic
manners in house training. When they come out of that
prison program or right after weaning, they may go to
a volunteer trainer who is essentially someone who takes the
dog into their home and they apply lots of love
and time and hard work to raise this song and
(12:23):
reinforce the basics or teach them the basics with their
different cues and different behaviors that we're looking for them
to do, as well as getting them really comfortable and
confident in public as service dogs asks. One of the
hardest things for a service dog is you can train
about any dog to do different tasks, but if they're
(12:44):
not comfortable being able to work out in the environment
that we need to do these tests, and then unfortunately
it's not going to work out for the person who
has them. So ensuring that they're happy and comfortable and
enjoy being out and about seeing all sorts of different
things in people is is a very important piece. Then
once the dogs are of age where we are able
(13:05):
to bring them back to start sort of that final
last step in training, which is the specific training towards
the placement that they're going to work towards. We do
a number of assessments on the dog, but we do
a final assessment to determine what is this dog's natural ability,
what is their personality? Where are they going to fit best?
And it's not only what task can they do, but
(13:27):
are they going to fit well into this type of home,
with this type of family and this type of environment,
and really focusing on making sure that the family and
the dog fit together really well. Then the dog goes
through that advanced training where they learn all the specific
service dog skills that they need to know to be
able to support their partner and that family. And then
(13:51):
the family comes to a ten day course where we
teach them how to handle their dog and all the
things that the dog already knows, get them bonded with
their partner, and then they go home, and we have
all sorts of supports in place for them after they
go home for follow up care and to ensure that
that transition goes smoothly. Some of our families have never
(14:11):
had dogs before, so it's a really big learning curve
for them to go from never having a dog to
now having this highly trained service dog. So we ensure
that they get lots of help and support once they
get home so that they're able to utilize the dog
to the best of their ability and have that you know, happy,
(14:32):
well functioning team that we hope will carry on and
work for you know, ten twelve additional years.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Wow, I'm glad that you went through all that. I mean,
that was a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I don't know if the general public has an understanding
when they hear about first of all, you know, the
cost and the wait list, what goes into having a
really really good service And so that makes me think,
(15:05):
you know, when I get some calls from people just
trying to build education and understanding, I'm not you know,
no judgment, no fault, We're just trying to educate when
when people do have their own dog and they want
to train that dog to be a service dog, there's
(15:29):
such a difference, right, and and what you put into that,
and so wondering if you could shed you know, your
perspective on that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Absolutely, So, first of all, I think there are some
really incredible teams out there that are self trained. I
think it can be done really well, and there's really
great service dogs out there who were trained by the
person who is handling them and who needs them. I
think or the mass majority of those who need a
(16:03):
service dog, they don't necessarily have the capability to do
that on their own their own, whether it's because they
don't have the time to do that, because it takes
a lot of work, as you just heard, it's a
lot of work. It you know, the dog might not
be the right fit, not that they aren't an amazing, wonderful,
(16:23):
talented dog, but they just might not have the right personality,
and they just might it might not be a job
they want to have. We want the dogs to enjoy
their job and want to do that job, and they
might not want to do it. They might like being
a couch potato. And then also I think it is
you know, it can be hard for those two you know,
(16:45):
even know where to start, Like how would I even
train my own service dog? And I think there's some
really great agencies out there and people and trainers who
are there to support and help those who want to
train their own service dog. And I think they also
do a really wonderful, amazing job and some really great
teams come out of that. But you don't going to
(17:07):
someone like that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're going to
end up with this dog. Working for you as a
service dog, if that dog is not going to be
the well suited for it. Not that they're not amazing,
but they it's you know, it's hard. It's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Work, very very hard. Even with your program, you don't
graduate every dog.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, absolutely are. Yeah, our goal for our success word
is between like forty and fifty percent passing and being
able to be a service dog, which and these are
dogs that are bred for this job, right And I
would say, yeah, our pass rate is pretty on par
with many other agencies as well, And so it just
(17:53):
goes to show how how rigorous and strict the whole
thing is and ensuring that it's the right fit in
all sorts of aspects.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Right, what so do service dogs and will jump into
the other categories of I don't know what word I'm
looking for, but you know, between emotional support and therapy
dogs are there certifications that dogs need to be a
service dog?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
So right now, the ADA does not actually have any
certifications or requirements for a service dog. So agencies like
ours that train in place service dogs, they tend to
have their own that they are making sure that the
dogs are passing these various different steps and stages and processes,
(18:48):
as well as the family and the handler of the
dog are also passing certain different things to be able
to meet that agency's certifications. But as a generalization, the
ADA does not have any required certifications at this point.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Okay, and service dogs they where are they allowed to go?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah? So service dogs are allowed to go anywhere essentially
in public, So that is like state, local government, you know,
all the pretty much all the buildings that you can
think of. A couple exceptions can be churches because those
are that kind of different sort of category there. But
(19:32):
anywhere in public that people are allowed to go, a
service dog can go.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Okay, so does that person need to have proof with
them then when they go?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Also under the ADA, they do not need to have
proof that that shows that it is a service dog.
Whether it's a vest or an ID card, those are
not things that are legally required under the ADA. Many agencies, though,
require such. For this as an example, we require that
the teams that go into public wear a service dog
(20:06):
vest or harness with our logo on it to essentially
just make it much easier for the family to get access.
They're not going to be questioned when people see that
harness with that logo on it. We also require them
to carry IDs that we make for them because once again,
it just makes their job of access easier because many
(20:29):
business owners unfortunately don't know the laws and don't know
the rules, so they're looking for things that aren't legally necessary.
They're looking for identification cards, they're looking for vests. So
even though the ADA doesn't require them, we found that
for our families getting access is so much easier if
we provide those things and make sure they have them
on them, and then they can choose to educate and
(20:53):
let them know that these things aren't required, or they
can say I don't have time to deal with this today,
so here's my vest and here's my eye card. Thank
you very much. Have a good day.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
And if the service dogs have a reaction, whether it's
to another dog, to a site sound, another person, is
the responsibility the same as if it was a pet.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So under the ADA, a service dog regardless of you know,
if they have the various things and are a legitimate
service dog. If that dog is under control and the
handler is not able to effectively effectively get that dog
back under control, they can be asked to leave the establishment.
(21:40):
That location that needs to be willing to serve that
person without the dog. But that's that and illumination the
dog having an accident indoors are the only two ways
that a service dog can be dismissed from public.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Okay, all right, well it is very very helpful. And
you know, again, like people see a dog if they
don't have the vest on, and people don't understand that
it is a service dog, and they may want to
go up and pet the dog. What do you suggest
to the public that sees a dog maybe it looks
(22:19):
like it may be a service dog, but they're not
quite sure if it's a service dog.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, I would say in general, because there aren't those
requirements say that service dog has to have any specific
type of cere identification to assume that it's a service dog,
and to because even if it was a pet, we
know not to just walk up to people's pets and
start petting them because it might not be an animal
(22:45):
who's comfortable with that. So you want to apply those
same courtesies to a service dog. So if you the
ideal scenario would be if you just let them do
their job and let them go along their way, and
you know, give them that space and courtesy. If you
are desperate to want to say hello to this dog,
(23:06):
it is okay to ask the handler if you may
greet the dog, and it is okay for them to
say no. You have to listen to that. Know if
they say it, you know, whether it's I'm sorry, the
dog's working right now, catch us another time, or that
you know, they're busy doing their job and they're not
a dog who can be greeted. Whatever the case, Baby,
don't by asking doesn't mean that they have to say yes,
(23:30):
and you have to be able to respect that note
and be able to move on. Definitely, try to not
distract the working dog the service song, you know, talking
to them, making smoochy noises, you know, barking that we've
had that happen to our families before, or people are
barking at the dog. And just give them their space,
(23:52):
let them do their their job.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah. This, by the way, you're right, it does. It's
the same with the pet dog. Yeah, okay, so let's
move on. Let's talk about now what an emotional support
dog is. It's different and there are different things that
people need to understand about that.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, definitely, so emotional support dogs are dogs that don't
have any actual training. They don't need to have training
to be an emotional support animal, and it's also not
specified to dog only, whereas service dogs like it's it's dogs.
There's a little addendum for miniature horses, but you never
(24:37):
I've never seen it. It's it's dogs. Whereas emotional support
animals they can be any well, you know, they can
be about anything. And the goal of the emotional support
animal is that they're providing emotional support. They don't and
it's their existence essentially that provides that emotional support, that
(24:58):
companionship and bo that they have with the person that
they're providing that support too. There's no training behind it,
and essentially to be eligible for emotional support animal is
needing a note from a like a therapist or a
doctor to say that this is this person's emotional support animal.
(25:21):
They're not allowed to go in public. Essentially, the benefit
that an emotional support animal provides is that you are
allowed to get housing with an emotional support animal where
they would previously like there's a no pet rule, but
if you have an emotional support animal with that appropriate documentation,
(25:43):
they cannot make you follow that rule. And you're allowed
to have that animal in your housing. Other than that,
that's about the only benefit that they get at this point.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Okay, so they're not allowed on airplanes.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
No, No, Historically they were, but that has changed and
they're no longer allowed on airplanes.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Okay. And if somebody moves into an apartment and their
emotional support dog is causing behavior issues in the apartment,
they are able the landlord. Does the landlord have a
right to ask them to do something about it?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah? So that's not something I'm actually super familiar with,
so I don't necessarily want to speak incorrectly on that.
I would imagine that it would be similar to a
service dog that if the dog is out of control
and you are not as the handler is unable to
get the dog back under control, that that's a problem
(26:45):
and we can be asked to leave.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah. I do know some people that do have emotional
support dogs and they're invaluable.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah. Okay, So now there is the emotional support that
you said doesn't have the training, and then there's also oh,
what's it called? This psychiatric service dog? So what is
a psychiatric service dog?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
A psychiatric service dog is a service dog, so they
fall under that same rules of a dog that has
been task trained to mitigate a disability. And the difference
is that instead of it being maybe something that might
be more of a visual disability that we can see,
like someone is in a wheelchair, it is more of
an invisible disability, like you know, potentially sometimes medical conditions
(27:41):
or psychiatric needs. It doesn't change that the dog is
still trained to perform get tasks and help support that
person in that disability, which is what makes them different.
One of the things that makes them different from an
emotional support animal is that training behind it and how
that training is used to specifically help support and mitigate
that disability.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay, all right, that's helpful. So therapy dogs. Therapy dogs
are in you know, nursing homes, retirement communities, hospitals, schools,
and that's on the lower end of these three. So
(28:23):
those can be certified, yes, yeah, yeah, and hospitals and such.
Really look for those from you know, organizations like pet
partners and other organizations. What kinds of skills, what kinds
of skills are good to be teaching, and what types
(28:47):
of things would you look for in a therapy dog.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, So therapy dogs, first of all are wonderful, their
life changing. They're so great, they help so many people.
Dog that makes a really that I think personally makes
a really great therapy dog is a dog who is
confident and comfortable in multiple environments and really loves being
(29:12):
with people and enjoying people. Therapy dogs just like emotional
support dogs. It does not have to be specified to
a dog. It can be other animals. My in laws
are really big in the therapy animal community. They've had
many therapy dogs and also recently a therapy bunny who
was just incredible. He was fantastic. They go through lots
(29:36):
of training to make sure that they are comfortable in
these environments and how to appropriately interact with people in
these different environments because safety is certainly a big concern.
You know, if you're going into a nursing home or hospital,
you need to ensure that the animal that the dog
is going to interact with the people they're visiting with
(29:57):
very safely. They're not you know, jumping up in accidentally
them if they're you know, elderly or sick. They also
need to be able to be comfortable with all this
different equipment and different things that you're going to see
in these type environments. So there's a lot of great
organizations out there that certify therapy dogs and therapy animals,
(30:18):
And it also takes a lot of training for the
person to learn how to interact and go to these
environments and interact with the different patients or the different
people that they're going to be coming across in these environments,
and how to you know, have a conversation with them
and help bring them out of their shell, or how
(30:38):
to recognize that you know, there's something going on here
that maybe I need to be alerting the care staff
to that this person might need some additional supports, you know,
things like that. So it's a lot of training for
both the animal and the dog and they end with
a certification process to become certified if you're going to
(30:59):
do it with a specific agency, and then you get
typically a vest and the dog is able to go
into public in the specific areas that they're providing that therapy.
This does not give them just general public access, like
you couldn't take your therapy dog to a nursing home
and then lunch with you afterwards. Like they could go
(31:20):
into the nursing home, but then you would have to
drop him off at home or come up with other
arrangements for them while you went into a restaurant. So
it doesn't give them full public access, only access to
the places that they're going and working specifically in.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It's just so wonderful. I do kids classes where I
teach kids how to be a good dog friend and
have a certified therapy dog that helps me. You know,
when I got my dog, Dawson, he's a little guy
Maltese poodle. You know, I had dreams of him being
a therapy dog. I would have loved to have done that.
(32:00):
He's just not the right dog.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
He just wasn't in the cards for him. And you
know that's the other thing is, yeah, not every dog
is cut out for that, Yes, and you know they
can still interact and do fun things and have great
quality of life, but it's not for every dog. So
but I think it's the most wonderful gift to give people,
(32:30):
and it's so beautiful to see that. Absolutely, well, this
has just been super helpful. I have a feeling this
is going to be really helpful for other people too,
because there is just you know, there's a there's some
confusion and a lack of understanding about these different dogs,
(32:53):
and so I think it's going to add some clarity
to a lot of people when they either see a
dog out or you know, if they have thoughts or
they know of somebody who's thinking about getting a dog
or training a dog to be one of these things.
So this is going to be really, really helpful. So
I so much appreciate you being here. It's been wonderful.
(33:15):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider
subscribing to my podcast, come back often, and tell your friends.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
If I can be of any help to you and
your pet.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Please reach out to me via my website www dot
somuchpotential dot com and for a lot more information, fun
and videos, please follow me so Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram,
and YouTube.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
See you soon.
Hi, this is Livee's Touched by Pets, a show for
those who love and are loved by pets.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm your host, Lisa d.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Satnik, certified trainer with so much potential in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
I'm really glad that you're here.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Welcome service dogs, emotional support dogs, certified therapy dogs.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
We see an experience. They're good in so many settings, yet.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Understanding their jobs, understanding how to interact with them, and
understanding their rights. Knowing how these dogs differ is so
unclear to a lot of people, and you know what,
I have to admit, I'm one of them. Preparing for
this episode, I learned a lot and so I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Really excited for you to be able to learn a
lot here today.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
This is a topic I've been wanting to cover for
a while. My guest is Tessa Kenworthy. She's a certified
dog trainer and training director for an organization I love,
called for Pause for Ability for Pause is a nonprofit
that trains service dogs for a variety of needs and
(01:22):
tasks that support children and veterans.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I can't wait for you to hear our discussion.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Let's get started, Hi, Jess, it's so great to see
you thanks for being with me today.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you so much, really appreciate being here. I'm bit excited.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Well, oh good. You know what, this is a topic
that I've wanted to do for so long, not only
because I get calls from time to time from people
that want to know can I train their dog? Maybe
their dog has some fear issues or reactivity issues outside
and they want to know can their dog be an
(02:00):
emotional support dog or service dog? Can you do the training?
And then there are people that are out and about
and don't understand the difference and what to do when
they see a dog, and so I just thought this
would be a really great conversation to have for so
many people. So I am really excited to delve into this.
(02:24):
So you're the training director of an organization called four
Pos for Ability, which I just love. I have so
much admiration for what you do. Can you explain what
you do and the types of service dogs that you train?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Absolutely, So if we're postifer ability, we train service dogs
for mostly children with disabilities. We do have a small
veterans program as well, so we'll place our dogs with
veterans as well as we have a small facility dog
program where we train dogs to go work in facility
and help with their services there. We've been around since
(03:04):
nineteen ninety eight, and this past November we placed our
two thousandth placement, which was a big, huge milestone for us.
We're very excited and the types of things that our
dogs are trained to do. We have a model where
all of our placements are specific to the need of
(03:25):
the family and the partner that they're supporting. So while
we certainly have some things that we see come up
a lot, we have that kind of Each dog is
trained on an individual basis to fit their family's needs.
So some of the most common things we train for
are what we call a behavior intervention service dog, which
(03:45):
is a dog who may do something like providing behavioral
support through calming or redirection. Other things they might do
is if a child has elopement behaviors, a child with autism,
sometimes they don't understand danger and so they might be
a flight risk, and so we can train the dogs
(04:07):
to do search and rescue called tracking, which is to
find their child, and they can do this in outdoor
and indoor environments. So even if they were to wander
off in a public mall type setting, the dog is
trained specifically to find their partner their child, and so
they're able to do that. We also have a tethering
(04:29):
system which helps prevent elopement by having the dog and
child connected via a safe tether where an adult is
still handling the dog and kind of making sure that
the team is all staying together and being safe. Another
very common type of placement that we have is our
seizure alert, where we train our dogs to detect seizures
(04:54):
and be able to alert to those seizures prior to
them occurring in MEDA incidences, as well as alerting to
those seizures in the moment that they're actually happening. And
then we once again because we're so kind of individualistic,
we have a bunch of other things that will kind
of do. We have mobility assistance dogs which can do
(05:16):
your typical turning on and off lights, opening and closing doors,
retrieving dropped items, helping put on clothes, hearing your dogs
which can alert to various sounds and either bring the
partner to that sound or give a specific queue that
lets them know what that sound is. And we also
(05:37):
provide balance support. So there's kind of a lot of
things going on there, but our most commonplacements are the
behavior intervention service dogs and the medical alert service dogs.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
And what about for veterans?
Speaker 3 (05:51):
For veterans, we will often see for them that we're
providing some sort of mobility support typically or a medical
alert type support. We also will have sometimes where the
behavior intervention might be a part of their process and
what they get, but it is not the primary need
for a service dog when they come to us.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
It's mind boggling to think of all the different skills
that you have to teach these dogs. Yes, it's you know,
for every one of these things, and some of these
are sent you know related. Tell me about some of
the skills that would be involved in when you're teaching
(06:34):
a dog to do behavior intervention. What kind of skills
are you teaching these dogs?
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Yeah, so for that kind of subset of tasks, the
skills that we're doing are we do a deep pressure
command where the dog will lay their body over top
of their partner, providing deep pressure. Which is that sense
of that deep pressure? I think we can all agree
it feels good, It helps to calm and relieve stress
(07:00):
and anxiety, and it could be utilized if the partner
is struggling with anxiety, or maybe their child who's had
a melt down and you know, they're really upset, and
so this can help calm them. We also have some
behaviors that are a little bit more kind of interrupting
(07:20):
specifically versus the more calming of the deep pressure that
that provides. So we do a nuzzle, which is where
the dog takes their head and their muzzle and they
will kind of bump at the partner's body, either by
kind of going up into a space, you know, if
they're kind of curled up in on themselves upset and crying,
then the dog can kind of stick their nose under
(07:43):
an arm and kind of bump up. And it's mostly
to say hey, instead of you know, being upset, why
don't you pay attention to me and let's cuddle and
let's pet or let's play fetch or you know, some
different things. So it helps interrupt whatever the behavior may be,
whether it is general upset or perhaps it is a
(08:03):
behavior that it could be harmful for the child or
the partner. You know, some of them stem by you know,
hitting their head potentially or doing something that is you know, yes,
it's a self soothing behavior. But it's not a self
soothing behavior that is healthy healthy for them. It can
it can harm themselves. So it's interrupting those type of
(08:27):
behaviors and redirecting them to other things, whether it's a
the calming pressure, deep pressure, or doing some tricks or
going and playing together.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
That's a lot. And I know that to teach a
dog to do all of these things, you're very particular
and how you raise the dog, because that also feeds
into having the dog that can do all these things
in a variety of situations. So tell me about your
process and how does this dog come to be a
(09:02):
service dog?
Speaker 3 (09:04):
Yeah. Absolutely, So it's a long process. We start before
the puppies are even born. We have a breeding program
and we breed all of our dogs so that they
are bread specifically for the work that we are hoping
to do with them. And those dogs that we select
as breeders are dogs that we would feel comfortable placing
(09:26):
as service dogs, because when you breed dogs together, you're
essentially saying, I want to make more of this. So
we want to make sure that what we want to
make more of is what would be a good service dog.
Our breeder dogs also go through very extensive health testing
that involve but not fully. Don't quote me on these
being all the things, because I'm sure there's gonna be
some of the pieces I'm interesting, but hip and elbow
(09:49):
X rays, different genetic testing, cardiology IE exams, like, they
get this huge, big gamut of testing that they have
to pass. Even if they're a really great temperament to
be a breeder dog, they have to pass all these
health exams because once again that also is a big part.
(10:09):
We want to make sure that our dogs are healthy, healthy, happy,
and long lived and able to do their jobs for
a very long time. Once a dog passes all those
stretcher exams for becoming a breeder dog, they're in homes
with families who love them as pets and care for them,
and then they come in and breed. We are very
(10:31):
very careful and selective with our breeding process as well
with as far as what dogs do we breed to
what other dogs, and that has to do with the genetics,
making sure dogs aren't too closely related, making sure health
wise that the puppies are going to be very health,
very healthy, and also that they're going to be the
type of personality and temperament we're looking for and the
(10:53):
type of dogs we're trying to get out of that litter.
So we might think to ourselves, you know, we want
a litter of dogs who's going to be more kind
of gentle and sensitive and motherly because we find those
type personalities tend to do really well with our medical alerts.
So that's the type of litter we want. So all
that kind of takes flicks in that determination. Once the
(11:16):
dogs are bred. Fast forward to the puppies being born,
and essentially they're in training from day one with all
sorts of different sensory things that we're exposing them to,
different smells and different touch textures. Is they don't have
their ears or eyes open yet, but they can smell
and they can feel, so we start with that all
right away. They go through a very rigorous puppy enrichment
(11:40):
program where they're learning they're just starting to learn all
those basics of being happy and comfortable and confident in
their environment, as well as you know, how to potty
train and how to sit and all those kind of
basic things. We have a prison program that our dogs
can go into, and a lot of our puppies go
(12:02):
into that prison program for those basics in those basic
manners in house training. When they come out of that
prison program or right after weaning, they may go to
a volunteer trainer who is essentially someone who takes the
dog into their home and they apply lots of love
and time and hard work to raise this song and
(12:23):
reinforce the basics or teach them the basics with their
different cues and different behaviors that we're looking for them
to do, as well as getting them really comfortable and
confident in public as service dogs asks. One of the
hardest things for a service dog is you can train
about any dog to do different tasks, but if they're
(12:44):
not comfortable being able to work out in the environment
that we need to do these tests, and then unfortunately
it's not going to work out for the person who
has them. So ensuring that they're happy and comfortable and
enjoy being out and about seeing all sorts of different
things in people is is a very important piece. Then
once the dogs are of age where we are able
(13:05):
to bring them back to start sort of that final
last step in training, which is the specific training towards
the placement that they're going to work towards. We do
a number of assessments on the dog, but we do
a final assessment to determine what is this dog's natural ability,
what is their personality? Where are they going to fit best?
And it's not only what task can they do, but
(13:27):
are they going to fit well into this type of home,
with this type of family and this type of environment,
and really focusing on making sure that the family and
the dog fit together really well. Then the dog goes
through that advanced training where they learn all the specific
service dog skills that they need to know to be
able to support their partner and that family. And then
(13:51):
the family comes to a ten day course where we
teach them how to handle their dog and all the
things that the dog already knows, get them bonded with
their partner, and then they go home, and we have
all sorts of supports in place for them after they
go home for follow up care and to ensure that
that transition goes smoothly. Some of our families have never
(14:11):
had dogs before, so it's a really big learning curve
for them to go from never having a dog to
now having this highly trained service dog. So we ensure
that they get lots of help and support once they
get home so that they're able to utilize the dog
to the best of their ability and have that you know, happy,
(14:32):
well functioning team that we hope will carry on and
work for you know, ten twelve additional years.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Wow, I'm glad that you went through all that. I mean,
that was a lot.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
I don't know if the general public has an understanding
when they hear about first of all, you know, the
cost and the wait list, what goes into having a
really really good service And so that makes me think,
(15:05):
you know, when I get some calls from people just
trying to build education and understanding, I'm not you know,
no judgment, no fault, We're just trying to educate when
when people do have their own dog and they want
to train that dog to be a service dog, there's
(15:29):
such a difference, right, and and what you put into that,
and so wondering if you could shed you know, your
perspective on that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Absolutely, So, first of all, I think there are some
really incredible teams out there that are self trained. I
think it can be done really well, and there's really
great service dogs out there who were trained by the
person who is handling them and who needs them. I
think or the mass majority of those who need a
(16:03):
service dog, they don't necessarily have the capability to do
that on their own their own, whether it's because they
don't have the time to do that, because it takes
a lot of work, as you just heard, it's a
lot of work. It you know, the dog might not
be the right fit, not that they aren't an amazing, wonderful,
(16:23):
talented dog, but they just might not have the right personality,
and they just might it might not be a job
they want to have. We want the dogs to enjoy
their job and want to do that job, and they
might not want to do it. They might like being
a couch potato. And then also I think it is
you know, it can be hard for those two you know,
(16:45):
even know where to start, Like how would I even
train my own service dog? And I think there's some
really great agencies out there and people and trainers who
are there to support and help those who want to
train their own service dog. And I think they also
do a really wonderful, amazing job and some really great
teams come out of that. But you don't going to
(17:07):
someone like that doesn't necessarily guarantee that you're going to
end up with this dog. Working for you as a
service dog, if that dog is not going to be
the well suited for it. Not that they're not amazing,
but they it's you know, it's hard. It's a lot of.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Work, very very hard. Even with your program, you don't
graduate every dog.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, absolutely are. Yeah, our goal for our success word
is between like forty and fifty percent passing and being
able to be a service dog, which and these are
dogs that are bred for this job, right And I
would say, yeah, our pass rate is pretty on par
with many other agencies as well, And so it just
(17:53):
goes to show how how rigorous and strict the whole
thing is and ensuring that it's the right fit in
all sorts of aspects.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Right, what so do service dogs and will jump into
the other categories of I don't know what word I'm
looking for, but you know, between emotional support and therapy
dogs are there certifications that dogs need to be a
service dog?
Speaker 3 (18:24):
So right now, the ADA does not actually have any
certifications or requirements for a service dog. So agencies like
ours that train in place service dogs, they tend to
have their own that they are making sure that the
dogs are passing these various different steps and stages and processes,
(18:48):
as well as the family and the handler of the
dog are also passing certain different things to be able
to meet that agency's certifications. But as a generalization, the
ADA does not have any required certifications at this point.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Okay, and service dogs they where are they allowed to go?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
Yeah? So service dogs are allowed to go anywhere essentially
in public, So that is like state, local government, you know,
all the pretty much all the buildings that you can
think of. A couple exceptions can be churches because those
are that kind of different sort of category there. But
(19:32):
anywhere in public that people are allowed to go, a
service dog can go.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Okay, so does that person need to have proof with
them then when they go?
Speaker 3 (19:45):
Also under the ADA, they do not need to have
proof that that shows that it is a service dog.
Whether it's a vest or an ID card, those are
not things that are legally required under the ADA. Many agencies, though,
require such. For this as an example, we require that
the teams that go into public wear a service dog
(20:06):
vest or harness with our logo on it to essentially
just make it much easier for the family to get access.
They're not going to be questioned when people see that
harness with that logo on it. We also require them
to carry IDs that we make for them because once again,
it just makes their job of access easier because many
(20:29):
business owners unfortunately don't know the laws and don't know
the rules, so they're looking for things that aren't legally necessary.
They're looking for identification cards, they're looking for vests. So
even though the ADA doesn't require them, we found that
for our families getting access is so much easier if
we provide those things and make sure they have them
on them, and then they can choose to educate and
(20:53):
let them know that these things aren't required, or they
can say I don't have time to deal with this today,
so here's my vest and here's my eye card. Thank
you very much. Have a good day.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
And if the service dogs have a reaction, whether it's
to another dog, to a site sound, another person, is
the responsibility the same as if it was a pet.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
So under the ADA, a service dog regardless of you know,
if they have the various things and are a legitimate
service dog. If that dog is under control and the
handler is not able to effectively effectively get that dog
back under control, they can be asked to leave the establishment.
(21:40):
That location that needs to be willing to serve that
person without the dog. But that's that and illumination the
dog having an accident indoors are the only two ways
that a service dog can be dismissed from public.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Okay, all right, well it is very very helpful. And
you know, again, like people see a dog if they
don't have the vest on, and people don't understand that
it is a service dog, and they may want to
go up and pet the dog. What do you suggest
to the public that sees a dog maybe it looks
(22:19):
like it may be a service dog, but they're not
quite sure if it's a service dog.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, I would say in general, because there aren't those
requirements say that service dog has to have any specific
type of cere identification to assume that it's a service dog,
and to because even if it was a pet, we
know not to just walk up to people's pets and
start petting them because it might not be an animal
(22:45):
who's comfortable with that. So you want to apply those
same courtesies to a service dog. So if you the
ideal scenario would be if you just let them do
their job and let them go along their way, and
you know, give them that space and courtesy. If you
are desperate to want to say hello to this dog,
(23:06):
it is okay to ask the handler if you may
greet the dog, and it is okay for them to
say no. You have to listen to that. Know if
they say it, you know, whether it's I'm sorry, the
dog's working right now, catch us another time, or that
you know, they're busy doing their job and they're not
a dog who can be greeted. Whatever the case, Baby,
don't by asking doesn't mean that they have to say yes,
(23:30):
and you have to be able to respect that note
and be able to move on. Definitely, try to not
distract the working dog the service song, you know, talking
to them, making smoochy noises, you know, barking that we've
had that happen to our families before, or people are
barking at the dog. And just give them their space,
(23:52):
let them do their their job.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Yeah. This, by the way, you're right, it does. It's
the same with the pet dog. Yeah, okay, so let's
move on. Let's talk about now what an emotional support
dog is. It's different and there are different things that
people need to understand about that.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Yeah, definitely, so emotional support dogs are dogs that don't
have any actual training. They don't need to have training
to be an emotional support animal, and it's also not
specified to dog only, whereas service dogs like it's it's dogs.
There's a little addendum for miniature horses, but you never
(24:37):
I've never seen it. It's it's dogs. Whereas emotional support
animals they can be any well, you know, they can
be about anything. And the goal of the emotional support
animal is that they're providing emotional support. They don't and
it's their existence essentially that provides that emotional support, that
(24:58):
companionship and bo that they have with the person that
they're providing that support too. There's no training behind it,
and essentially to be eligible for emotional support animal is
needing a note from a like a therapist or a
doctor to say that this is this person's emotional support animal.
(25:21):
They're not allowed to go in public. Essentially, the benefit
that an emotional support animal provides is that you are
allowed to get housing with an emotional support animal where
they would previously like there's a no pet rule, but
if you have an emotional support animal with that appropriate documentation,
(25:43):
they cannot make you follow that rule. And you're allowed
to have that animal in your housing. Other than that,
that's about the only benefit that they get at this point.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Okay, so they're not allowed on airplanes.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
No, No, Historically they were, but that has changed and
they're no longer allowed on airplanes.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Okay. And if somebody moves into an apartment and their
emotional support dog is causing behavior issues in the apartment,
they are able the landlord. Does the landlord have a
right to ask them to do something about it?
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Yeah? So that's not something I'm actually super familiar with,
so I don't necessarily want to speak incorrectly on that.
I would imagine that it would be similar to a
service dog that if the dog is out of control
and you are not as the handler is unable to
get the dog back under control, that that's a problem
(26:45):
and we can be asked to leave.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah. I do know some people that do have emotional
support dogs and they're invaluable.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
Yeah. Okay, So now there is the emotional support that
you said doesn't have the training, and then there's also oh,
what's it called? This psychiatric service dog? So what is
a psychiatric service dog?
Speaker 3 (27:16):
A psychiatric service dog is a service dog, so they
fall under that same rules of a dog that has
been task trained to mitigate a disability. And the difference
is that instead of it being maybe something that might
be more of a visual disability that we can see,
like someone is in a wheelchair, it is more of
an invisible disability, like you know, potentially sometimes medical conditions
(27:41):
or psychiatric needs. It doesn't change that the dog is
still trained to perform get tasks and help support that
person in that disability, which is what makes them different.
One of the things that makes them different from an
emotional support animal is that training behind it and how
that training is used to specifically help support and mitigate
that disability.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Okay, all right, that's helpful. So therapy dogs. Therapy dogs
are in you know, nursing homes, retirement communities, hospitals, schools,
and that's on the lower end of these three. So
(28:23):
those can be certified, yes, yeah, yeah, and hospitals and such.
Really look for those from you know, organizations like pet
partners and other organizations. What kinds of skills, what kinds
of skills are good to be teaching, and what types
(28:47):
of things would you look for in a therapy dog.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
Yeah, So therapy dogs, first of all are wonderful, their
life changing. They're so great, they help so many people.
Dog that makes a really that I think personally makes
a really great therapy dog is a dog who is
confident and comfortable in multiple environments and really loves being
(29:12):
with people and enjoying people. Therapy dogs just like emotional
support dogs. It does not have to be specified to
a dog. It can be other animals. My in laws
are really big in the therapy animal community. They've had
many therapy dogs and also recently a therapy bunny who
was just incredible. He was fantastic. They go through lots
(29:36):
of training to make sure that they are comfortable in
these environments and how to appropriately interact with people in
these different environments because safety is certainly a big concern.
You know, if you're going into a nursing home or hospital,
you need to ensure that the animal that the dog
is going to interact with the people they're visiting with
(29:57):
very safely. They're not you know, jumping up in accidentally
them if they're you know, elderly or sick. They also
need to be able to be comfortable with all this
different equipment and different things that you're going to see
in these type environments. So there's a lot of great
organizations out there that certify therapy dogs and therapy animals,
(30:18):
And it also takes a lot of training for the
person to learn how to interact and go to these
environments and interact with the different patients or the different
people that they're going to be coming across in these environments,
and how to you know, have a conversation with them
and help bring them out of their shell, or how
(30:38):
to recognize that you know, there's something going on here
that maybe I need to be alerting the care staff
to that this person might need some additional supports, you know,
things like that. So it's a lot of training for
both the animal and the dog and they end with
a certification process to become certified if you're going to
(30:59):
do it with a specific agency, and then you get
typically a vest and the dog is able to go
into public in the specific areas that they're providing that therapy.
This does not give them just general public access, like
you couldn't take your therapy dog to a nursing home
and then lunch with you afterwards. Like they could go
(31:20):
into the nursing home, but then you would have to
drop him off at home or come up with other
arrangements for them while you went into a restaurant. So
it doesn't give them full public access, only access to
the places that they're going and working specifically in.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
It's just so wonderful. I do kids classes where I
teach kids how to be a good dog friend and
have a certified therapy dog that helps me. You know,
when I got my dog, Dawson, he's a little guy
Maltese poodle. You know, I had dreams of him being
a therapy dog. I would have loved to have done that.
(32:00):
He's just not the right dog.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I get it.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
He just wasn't in the cards for him. And you
know that's the other thing is, yeah, not every dog
is cut out for that, Yes, and you know they
can still interact and do fun things and have great
quality of life, but it's not for every dog. So
but I think it's the most wonderful gift to give people,
(32:30):
and it's so beautiful to see that. Absolutely, well, this
has just been super helpful. I have a feeling this
is going to be really helpful for other people too,
because there is just you know, there's a there's some
confusion and a lack of understanding about these different dogs,
(32:53):
and so I think it's going to add some clarity
to a lot of people when they either see a
dog out or you know, if they have thoughts or
they know of somebody who's thinking about getting a dog
or training a dog to be one of these things.
So this is going to be really, really helpful. So
I so much appreciate you being here. It's been wonderful.
(33:15):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider
subscribing to my podcast, come back often, and tell your friends.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
If I can be of any help to you and
your pet.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Please reach out to me via my website www dot
somuchpotential dot com and for a lot more information, fun
and videos, please follow me so Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram,
and YouTube.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
See you soon.
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