May 4, 2024 • 30 mins
This is a follow up to Episode 4 where I spoke with Dr. Moira Hechenleitner, DVM, CSAT,
talking about what is separation anxiety in dogs. If you haven’t already, I encourage you to
listen to that episode. Dr. Hechenleitner has spent the last 15 years offering consultation
services for pet guardians and teaching courses to dog professionals.
In this Episode 5, Dr. Hechenleitner talks about the treatment of separation anxiety.
There is hope!
why assessing your dog’s behaviors are an important first step
Dr. Hechenleitner’s 3 pillars of separation anxiety treatment including
what does the actual separation anxiety treatment training look like
Thanks for listening!
As a reminder, learn more about Dr. Hechenleitner and her support for dog owners and
dog professionals at www.separationanxietydog.com.
Learn more about me and my dog training at www.SoMuchPETential.com.
talking about what is separation anxiety in dogs. If you haven’t already, I encourage you to
listen to that episode. Dr. Hechenleitner has spent the last 15 years offering consultation
services for pet guardians and teaching courses to dog professionals.
In this Episode 5, Dr. Hechenleitner talks about the treatment of separation anxiety.
There is hope!
why assessing your dog’s behaviors are an important first step
Dr. Hechenleitner’s 3 pillars of separation anxiety treatment including
what does the actual separation anxiety treatment training look like
Thanks for listening!
As a reminder, learn more about Dr. Hechenleitner and her support for dog owners and
dog professionals at www.separationanxietydog.com.
Learn more about me and my dog training at www.SoMuchPETential.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, this is Live's Touch by Pets, a show for
those who love and are loved by pets. I'm your host,
Lisa de Sadek, certified trainer with so much potential in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm really glad that you're here.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
This is a follow up to episode four where I
spoke with doctor Moya heffen Leitner and we talked about
what is separation anxiety and dogs. If you haven't already,
I encourage you to listen to that episode. Moya has
spent the last fifteen years offering consultation services on this
(00:45):
very subject for pet guardians and teaching courses to doc
professionals like myself. In this episode five, she talks with
us about the treatment of separation anxiety and is there hope, Yes,
there is.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I hope you'll stay tuned. Well, Hi everybody, I'm so
glad that you're here. So if you haven't already listened,
please go back and listen to part one where I
talked to Maya about what separation anxiety is and understanding
separation anxiety. And today we're going to do a part two,
(01:26):
which is really important. We're going to talk about how
to treat separation anxiety, and yes, separation anxiety is treatable.
Moya has been doing this for a long time and
she's seen lots of successes, so I'm really excited to
have her to share a part two with us.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Welcome, Moya, thank you for having me again.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah. Yeah, So, first of all, the fact that it
is treatable, because that's really important. You know, the case
that you helped me with was I really I would
consider that a pretty severe case. The doorframe was destroyed,
furniture on either side of the doorframe was destroyed, the
(02:12):
dog had gotten through the second floor window, and neighbors
found him panicked on the second floor roof. That is
what I would consider a pretty steep separation anxiety case,
and that has been very successful. So it makes me
so happy to hear when I talked to them about
(02:33):
how happy they are and their dog is too, and
now they can go out and do things. So absolutely,
I'm smiling from.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Air to air.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You may not be able to see it, but you
can probably feel it, and that's what I love about
this stuff. So Moya, let's talk about this. Tell just
in a general sense, give people an idea of how
this is a treatable condition.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Definitely, and I love a few were mentioning the keys
that you were talking about. I started the professional memory
instead of remembering the pictures, you send the videos and
it was just so great to hear that the outcome
has been so good and to re remember, you know,
everything that was going on and how happy they were
(03:18):
at the end. And definitely that brings hope because it
is true you can treat separational society and you can
work on having a dog who is I read one
left alone. So it is important first to come back
to one point that we made at the beginning of
the first episode, which was instead of dwelling on the
(03:40):
clause or what we did that was wrong, let's focus
on what can.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Do to help.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Because we can help, we can change the outcome, we
can change our future depending on what we do today.
And the first step is to assess, as we talked
about also during the first episode, and determine if this
is actually separational site because separation related behaviors are non specific.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
What does non specific mean?
Speaker 5 (04:06):
It means that those are behaviors that can happen in
several different situations. Barting can happen due to many different
reasons right, eliminating meaning or urinating or defecating, destroying objects,
trying to scratching the door for example, all of those
things basing around the house, it happened due to different
(04:29):
underlying motivations or reasons. So the first first goal is
for us to determine what are we talking about, because
if the dog is barking at something outside, I don't
need to implement a seperational Society training. And a couple
of things happen. One is that when someone tells you
you have to do as operational Siety training, it can
feel very overwhelming because it does take a lot of
(04:51):
dedication and you know, perseverance and consistent work. Although we
try to make it as in see as possible, it
does recurrent efforts of if you don't have to do
it to be successful, why would you write?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Like?
Speaker 5 (05:03):
The purpose is to make this the most efficient that
we can and successful, So of course let's figure out
what is happening so we can target exactly that. The
other thing that happens a lot is that when trainers
and I remember I neished to do this, So when
I was a new certified Operational Society trainer, I really
wanted to implement the separational society training right because I.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Wanted to practice.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
It was fun, It was just eager to help, and
so I would see separation anxiety where there wasn't any
because I really wanted to implement the program. And I
have learned over time with the passing of the years,
that it's resolutely necessarily needed and it's going to be
overwhelming for people they don't really need it, Like why
would I do that if I can provide.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
An easier solution to them?
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So that's the first if we'd agreement that this is
separational society, I like to approach this basing my treatment
and three pillars I like to call them pillars.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Or three ask them.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Those three aspects are the first suspension of absences. That
will mean that the dogs shouldn't be left alone without
a human at any time, never except during train but
the training is supervised, is controlled, and we're really adjusting
how much he can be left alone, she can be
left alone, but we're observing so it's safe.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So that suspension of absence.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Is that the first thing that really triggers people in general.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It's funny because.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Many people are already doing it or are at least
doing it at ninety percent of the time because they
have seen what happens when they don't, and they don't
want their doc to suffer. And that's what happens. What
triggers to what we had been talking at the end
of our last episode that the person feels very overwhelmed
because they feel like they should be leaving the dog
(06:50):
because this is ridiculous, or because someone told them that
this was ridiculous, but in their heart, they don't want
to because they see their dogs offer so much. So
this sometimes becomes really because you know now that you
have permission to not leave your dog alone at all
while your dog learns to be okay, And I'm stopped.
(07:11):
I really like explain this a lot, and it gets
a little bit long, just because I find that this
is one of the most important points. So if you
if you are going to remember something out of this,
remember to assess and remember to suspect absences.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Think about I have this horrible example, and since I
think it makes it.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Makes the difference, think about you'll be very afraid of drawing,
So being afraid of being in a pool any boy
to the deep air part of the pool and not
being able to touch the ground the bottom, and I tell you,
don't worry, I'll help you. You're gonna be okay. So
every day I'm gonna take you with me. We're gonna
walk together, hand back hand, and we're gonna get closer
(07:51):
to the nep side of the pool. But i'm gonna
hold you for a few seconds.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
You're not gonna be able to top to the bottom.
You're gonna be safe. I'm not gonna let you go.
I promise.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
And I do that every day, but once the week, randomly,
when the person you are sitting by the pool, just
relaxing because you know it's saying you know what is
not what is into you? Without telling you, I pushed
you into wire to the deep side, and I tell
you I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Today is not the day I'm going to help you.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
I'm sorry. You will have to find your way out
another thrown or not.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And the next day I tell you no, but it's okay.
Trust me.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
I promise you, I'm going to take you with me.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I'm not gonna ledgit. But would you trust me?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Probably not?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And it would you?
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Would you overcome your fear to the wire?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Nope?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Right, because you you still experience that fear going the
beyond the point that you can handle, which means the
low excuse me, over your threshold, you know, beyond your threshold,
the poyward the secuation becomes scary and frightening and adverse
it to you. So keeping that in check and helping
the dog relax can make a big difference. And you
(08:59):
can see difference with a document before starting your training
when you switch from leaving alone or not daly bases
to suspending those substances.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Let's really delve into that a little bit because that
is so important and I have to be honest, a
lot of people don't commit to working on separation anxiety
because of the need for suspended absences. Maybe you know,
they need to work during the day and that's they say,
(09:28):
you know, that's not realistic, or they just can't always
be with their dog at the you know, it can
seem overwhelming also in people, and so that is you're right,
that's very much of a sticking point when it comes
to helping people to help their dogs with it. So,
(09:50):
you know, let's talk for just a minute about how
people can be creative about coming up with solutions for that.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
It is.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
It's definitely challenging, and it's definitely, as you said, like
a spiky point where I don't know if I want
to embark on this.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
First, you have two choices.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
You continuely leave your dog alone and your dogs log
is going to freak out, you know, every time, and
things will likely get worse over time. Or you do
something about and eventually you're able to leave your dog
alone for a very good amount of time and both
you and your dog get your lives back and a
health in a healthy way. So yes, and it's valid
(10:29):
whatever decision you make, right, but it's for a quality
of life point of view. Your done is not having
a good quality of life if you're leaving, you're leading
him alone every day and reacting. That's it's not safe.
It's not healthy in any in any way. And one
of the things I also wanted to mention before I
forget is, unfortunately, with separational society, if the dog isn't
(10:52):
doing something that causes damage to our lives directly, we
don't think it's an emergency. See, so if that same
dog was actually showing aggressive behavior.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Towards someone, and that was a deal breaker.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Because it's actually affecting my life, you know directly, and
it's not only making the dogs offer in general that
people tend to make adjustments faster because it's dangerous because
it's affecting others. All challenges are hurting the dog, and
it's important to understand that not because it doesn't affect
(11:32):
us yet. It's not affecting the dog's pallet if life
and health, and it can excalate to a point that
it actually starts affecting our life, and we don't want
so creative ways. I always like to say that you
need a community of support, and of course if you
don't have any, and if you live you move to
a place where there's no funily, there's no friends, you're
(11:53):
on your that will most certainly add a layer of
challenge to the key that you're working with or to
your situation, and it will affect the prognosis or the
likelihood of our good right and we have to be
brand about that, and we have to consider all of
those pros and cons when we are deciding on what
to do to help our dogs or not. But in general,
(12:16):
there are a lot of different things that we can
do from neighbors, you know, like today, I take care
of your dogs and or take care of mind, you know,
like kind of like when people both get their kids
to school, you know, and take turns, kind of a
similar situation. A lot of jobs now allow you to
take your dog with you. A lot of places are
pet friendly working from the house. There's a lot of
(12:39):
elderly people a lot of animals, but they don't feel
like they can take the resk on the responsibility to
have one because of their age, but they would love
to stand up day with a dog. They can take
care of your dog.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And of course there.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Are also resources that you need to pay for.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
For example, robot dot com.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
It's you know, a website that it's kind of like
an AIRBMB style with reviews that you can check in
your area, and it's pretty safe.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I have at good results with it.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Different test setters nay cares of course, and that type
of situation is the most unusual that people use now.
One of the things that I feel already gives peace
of mind is that you don't have to choose one
and stick to it for the whole week.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
So the idea or.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
The goal is to create a little puzzle that you
basically fill out with different cover with different blocks of
different health throughout your week. So Monday morning, you know
someone is going to take care of my dog Monday afternoon,
and when I work from home, and so on, until
you cover the whole the whole week and all of
(13:43):
your needs. Nowadays it has been so much easier, but
use a lot of people work from home, and there
are a lot of pet friendly areas or places.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
So in general it tends to be much easier than
you think it is. Haden said that it is a challenge.
I'm not gonna lie. Of course, it's a challenge.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
It's a commitment, and it's not easy, and sometimes it
takes a toll, and people do have ups and downs.
Because it's normal, it's okay, and I think talking about
it and being truthful about it it's also good because
it sets the expectations and the right of way so
you don't feel disappointed down the road. But having a
good coach that can help you through those challenges and
(14:25):
through that treatment and journey can make a real difference,
because when you're not feeling like you can keep going,
you know you will have someone who will show you
objectively how far you have gone. It will give you
the energy and support you need to keep going until
you conquer the world and are able to lean your
(14:46):
logs safe.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yelone, You know it is a temporary thing if you're
working through it, so that's really important to realize too.
Let's go to your second pillar.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
The second let's do the t It says, we kind
of segue from what we were just saying. So okay,
one of the things about the training, and I kind
of going ahead, but one of the things about the
training is that eventually your training becomes your absence. So
it starts like training, right, and it's fake in a way,
But eventually, and as soon as it's possible, we're gonna
(15:20):
make that absence useful, whether that is thirty minutes, twenty minutes,
forty minutes, it's gonna be an amount of time when
we get to the point you're leaving the area that
you can use for something. Maybe it's just gonna go
We're gonna go for a walk, or it's going to
be to go to the post office and come back.
But eventually it's gonna become a long absence. And I
(15:41):
have this funny adding though that a lot of the
other people I work with first are just begging for
time to be able to go out for a couple
of hours to.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Have dinner or whatever.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
And then when we were reached the point that we're
doing three hours, four hours, one hour, they tell me,
I don't even know what else to do, so like,
I don't want to leave my house anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And it's so funny because it's.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
True, but it gets to the point where you complain
about what you were wishing for how long time. And
in terms of how the training it's a little bit
harder to explain in just a few words, but basically
what we do our training sessions that we perform daily
that in early stages they hear around twenty minutes to complete.
The longer the absence gets, the longer they will be,
(16:28):
of course, but then they're real, so it gets a
lot easier to make them or to perform. In these
training sessions are a.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Group of steps that.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Involve approximations to the door or to leaving or exiting departure,
and so some of them will be just going to
the door, turning mo or handle. Some of them are
going to be actually exiting, coming back and so on,
and strategically we're going to fold in everything that the
person uses or wears or brass when they're needing. So
eventually this becomes a real departure, but in a natural
(17:06):
and organic way, because grabbing my keys forty times in
a row might make the dog not react after the
thirtieth time, right, However, that is not realistic because when
I grab my keys to actually leave the house, the
dog will know the difference. So this makes the point
of putting everything together. So eventually all my routine, my
(17:30):
departure routine, is included. And as I mentioned before, the
duration of this exit eventually becomes longer and longer and longer,
but it always remains the low of the dog's threshold,
and we talk about that work before the threshold. We
define it as the moment that the situation becomes abversive
to that particular dog at that time, and that can
(17:51):
start being three seconds after I close the door on
my exit, and eventually it will get longer, bigger and
bigger and bigger, ass I works through the training, but
during the training, we'll always keep it below that so
the dog feels safe.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
And trusts the process. And it's a two finally, so everything.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
It's a beautiful way to do that. It's just the
twenty thirty minutes a day. And here's the thing is
that when you're working with a coach like Moya or myself,
you're not in it alone.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And so what.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Happens is you are only progressing where the dog, your
dog is telling us he's okay. And how do we
know that? It's all recorded? It's very systematic. So when
they're going through each of these steps, they're recording this
is what my dog did when we did this, And
(18:46):
then as the consultants go back and look and say, okay,
so you're doing really well. So maybe here we can
move up a little bit, or maybe here we need
to stick with this, or we need to go back,
or we need to work through certain things. I know,
with the dog that we were just talking about, he
had certain departure cues that were so difficult for him,
(19:09):
and that when we added those, one was so simple
that to us it seems simple, but to him it
was huge. Was with they had a screen door to
the front door, and we had it propped open for
a while in the beginning. When we closed that, that
was the longest for him and it really it kind
(19:29):
of sews back, but we went, you know, we then
we had to systematically work through that departure queue with him,
and each time that he did, he built his confidence
to move forward to the next step. So it's very
systematic and how it's done. And like Whey said, you're
not in it alone and that's the beauty of working
(19:50):
with somebody who can really help you along the way.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And definitely, yeah, the unlully you're me.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
I hear this a lot and unfortunately because it's getting better,
but there's not a lot of impatient around separational anxiety
widely speaking, like in terms of in the whole world,
you know, and among dog guardians. So a lot of
these people who have separational sidey dogs and they're embarking
(20:21):
on this journey to help them heal don't have a
supported family or people, not because they'll want to be
mean to them, but just because they don't understand what
the situation really is and that the training they're doing
isn't silly, and they can't feel work very lonely, and
they can feel like they're always fighting to try to
defend themselves and show that this is actually working. And
(20:46):
as coach, we can really help them and support them
so they don't feel alone, and so they really confer
once and again that they make the right decision. And
I always like when we have reached the point where
we're doing four hours, I tell them it's you tell
your family shout that show them this video, thank you
you four hours and I show it to see, Hey,
(21:11):
what you mentioned about the pit and ques or the
what we in anycy words, all of those little things
that we add to the departure. It is so interesting
how some things we then think we're going to be
triggering are so triggering. And some things that we thought
the dog was going to care a lot, they can't
care less.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So that's why.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
It's so individual to individual. And that takes me to
one little thing I wanted to add is that you
mentioned about your the case being so severe, right, this
case that you work with, And definitely it is severe
because of the danger or the potential danger involved. Right,
It's a situation where it can go very wrong. But
(21:52):
it is important to consider that every case is severe
because no matter if the dog is just shutting down,
hiding under a table and crime very quietly that dog,
we can't really measure how much more that dog is
suffering compared to the one that is jumping from a
roof right, so in their mind they could be suffering
(22:14):
exactly the same amount. And so that's why it's so
important to consider all cases emergency. And the good news
is that there's no correlation between how some bee or
intense these signs look to pass and how hard the
training or difficult or complex it's going to be. So
you can have a case that looks horrible to your
(22:37):
eyes and the resolution can be very fast, and you
can have a case that looks very mild quote unquote
and takes a long time.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
So there's no rule to just go for it.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
And they get one day at a time and eventually
it will work out.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
How important is medicine to get involved in these cases?
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Ah, and you stole like works because that's the third pillar.
So that's the last part of the treatment. And although
it's not a mass.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Many dogs do benefit from it.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
And the reason why they benefit from it is because
medication behavior medication that is in this particular context is
meant to support their journey, is meant to help them
deal with the situation a little bit better, a little
bit more easily, and it tends to create more consistent
response from the dog. So instead of having hard days
(23:32):
or harder days and easier days to.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Code with the whole situation.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
They are more stableized and they tend to increase that
streshold we were talking about. So if they are not
able before the met they weren't able to tolerate more
than three seconds, and I'm just giving numbers.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Of course, it's random.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
They might be able to tolerate them at that stage
for example. The way that I and you know, of course,
the most important thing is for you to go to the.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Bed and to ask for help.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
I love teamwork, so I love to create a connection
and a group that is supporting each garden and their
dog by connecting the bed with maybe other behaviors if
it's needed or available with the trainer who is helping
with separational society. Maybe there's another trainer involved for another
(24:23):
challenger working with maybe there is a pet sitter, a
dog walker. And if we are all you know and
sync and we're all talking to each other, we can
truly help and track all the data and all the
progress and all the challenges to really optimize what we're
doing and reach our goals. So the first important part
would be to talk to your bed, to connect everybody,
(24:47):
so they can like talk to each other and share
their findings and choose if the dog would benefit from medication,
if the dog is healthy, and if there are other
medical issues, because that's very important to without medical issues
that could be making this look like the creatial anxiety,
or that it could be affecting the separation anxiety even more,
(25:08):
and then determine if behavior medication is it's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
They just as.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
A very light comment or or things that dicting attention
to to maybe think that it could the dog could
be a good candidate for medication, or if the progress
is inconsistent and you can repoint the inconsistencies to anything
in particular. So some days the dog does great in training,
(25:36):
some days the dog doesn't.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
But it's not because that they.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
Went to a boomer or bell or there was a storm.
It's just it's random.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
There's no there's no way of really connecting the dogs.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Or if the dog has other behavior issues, if the
dog has generalized anxiety, no sensibility, confinement issues or activity
to other dogs, fear anything like that that on top
of the separation anxiety. That tells me that it is
very likely that beharoation will be able to stabilize that
dog and help him to feel better in general, and
(26:09):
if you feel better, you will perform better.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
If we don't feel better, we can't really work our
way through life in a healthy, productive way.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
The saying goes with for our does.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So another thing that comes up people want to know
how long do I have to do this for.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
I think once people understand that this is an emotional disorder,
they realize that it is really impossible to tell how
long it's going to take. Because if I have fear
of drowning and it's a phobia, it's an irrational so
I can't handle it. I can although I know it's silly.
I might know it's silly. I can't really be exposed
(26:52):
to the situation without my heart rate increasing. If I
go to the therapist and I tell the therapist, hey,
you know what, I need to work on this, but
I need you to heal me in six months because
I have a trip to the Korean and I am
meant to go as normally. Do you think that therapist
is gonna tell me, yeah, cool, I'll have you perfect
(27:14):
in six months. Rolling not, because it's not up to
the therapist to give me a timeline because of course
they oh, no, right, It depends on me and how
my plasticity, how I can allop to the situation.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And also it depends.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
On the environment and how the environment is supporting what's
happening my medical issues, potential, mygal issues, things that are
happening in my life changes, among others. The same goes
for the dog. So any environmental change that could be
affecting the situation overall medical issues could be affecting that timeline.
How much we're working with your dog, Meaning I don't
(27:49):
want you to overwork with your dog, but if you're
not being consistent, that might affect that outcome too, and
that timeline and the dog listicity. Sometimes dog just needs time.
Sometimes you don't have to make any changes of the training.
You just have to keep doing the same boring thing
over and over and there's a moment when it just clicks,
(28:10):
because sometimes you just need time to overcome tents. Yeah,
you need to say integrate it. And so unfortunately, if
I'm going to have an answer, and what I can
tell you though, is that.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
If you keep going, you will get there.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
It might take years, it might take months, I don't know,
but it will take the biggest reason for failure is stopping.
And most of the people I have worked with who
haven't reached the finish line, it's because they have stopped
for it.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So it just help out there and these can be successful.
That's the key message that we want to leave people with. Well,
what a fabulous conversation. Oh my goodness, I'm so glad
we were able to do this. So you have educational
opportunities for both pros and for dog owners. So where
(29:07):
can people find you, because it's such a valuable resource,
all of us and so much.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
They can find me at Separation Society dot com. I
do have help for dog Garnians and I have help
for dog professionals from online support for both. I do
support other colleagues through online help and consultations. And I
do have a platform like the we were talking about
(29:37):
at the beginning of the first episode with the Shadowy program.
And there are different seminars, not only me as a
speakers there as a speaker there. They have some webinars
from other guests, but all related to separation anxiety. And yeah,
that's that's that's about it.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Not anbulds and I'm gonna have link and more of
your information on the show notes so people can find
it there too well.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's been such a pleasure.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing to my podcast,
Come back often and tell your friends. If I can
be of any help to you and your pet. Please
reach out to.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Me via my website www.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Dot so muchpotential dot com and.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
For a lot more information, fun and videos, please follow
me so Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. See
you soon.
Hi, this is Live's Touch by Pets, a show for
those who love and are loved by pets. I'm your host,
Lisa de Sadek, certified trainer with so much potential in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm really glad that you're here.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Welcome.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
This is a follow up to episode four where I
spoke with doctor Moya heffen Leitner and we talked about
what is separation anxiety and dogs. If you haven't already,
I encourage you to listen to that episode. Moya has
spent the last fifteen years offering consultation services on this
(00:45):
very subject for pet guardians and teaching courses to doc
professionals like myself. In this episode five, she talks with
us about the treatment of separation anxiety and is there hope, Yes,
there is.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
I hope you'll stay tuned. Well, Hi everybody, I'm so
glad that you're here. So if you haven't already listened,
please go back and listen to part one where I
talked to Maya about what separation anxiety is and understanding
separation anxiety. And today we're going to do a part two,
(01:26):
which is really important. We're going to talk about how
to treat separation anxiety, and yes, separation anxiety is treatable.
Moya has been doing this for a long time and
she's seen lots of successes, so I'm really excited to
have her to share a part two with us.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Welcome, Moya, thank you for having me again.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Yeah. Yeah, So, first of all, the fact that it
is treatable, because that's really important. You know, the case
that you helped me with was I really I would
consider that a pretty severe case. The doorframe was destroyed,
furniture on either side of the doorframe was destroyed, the
(02:12):
dog had gotten through the second floor window, and neighbors
found him panicked on the second floor roof. That is
what I would consider a pretty steep separation anxiety case,
and that has been very successful. So it makes me
so happy to hear when I talked to them about
(02:33):
how happy they are and their dog is too, and
now they can go out and do things. So absolutely,
I'm smiling from.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Air to air.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
You may not be able to see it, but you
can probably feel it, and that's what I love about
this stuff. So Moya, let's talk about this. Tell just
in a general sense, give people an idea of how
this is a treatable condition.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
Definitely, and I love a few were mentioning the keys
that you were talking about. I started the professional memory
instead of remembering the pictures, you send the videos and
it was just so great to hear that the outcome
has been so good and to re remember, you know,
everything that was going on and how happy they were
(03:18):
at the end. And definitely that brings hope because it
is true you can treat separational society and you can
work on having a dog who is I read one
left alone. So it is important first to come back
to one point that we made at the beginning of
the first episode, which was instead of dwelling on the
(03:40):
clause or what we did that was wrong, let's focus
on what can.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Do to help.
Speaker 5 (03:45):
Because we can help, we can change the outcome, we
can change our future depending on what we do today.
And the first step is to assess, as we talked
about also during the first episode, and determine if this
is actually separational site because separation related behaviors are non specific.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
What does non specific mean?
Speaker 5 (04:06):
It means that those are behaviors that can happen in
several different situations. Barting can happen due to many different
reasons right, eliminating meaning or urinating or defecating, destroying objects,
trying to scratching the door for example, all of those
things basing around the house, it happened due to different
(04:29):
underlying motivations or reasons. So the first first goal is
for us to determine what are we talking about, because
if the dog is barking at something outside, I don't
need to implement a seperational Society training. And a couple
of things happen. One is that when someone tells you
you have to do as operational Siety training, it can
feel very overwhelming because it does take a lot of
(04:51):
dedication and you know, perseverance and consistent work. Although we
try to make it as in see as possible, it
does recurrent efforts of if you don't have to do
it to be successful, why would you write?
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Like?
Speaker 5 (05:03):
The purpose is to make this the most efficient that
we can and successful, So of course let's figure out
what is happening so we can target exactly that. The
other thing that happens a lot is that when trainers
and I remember I neished to do this, So when
I was a new certified Operational Society trainer, I really
wanted to implement the separational society training right because I.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Wanted to practice.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
It was fun, It was just eager to help, and
so I would see separation anxiety where there wasn't any
because I really wanted to implement the program. And I
have learned over time with the passing of the years,
that it's resolutely necessarily needed and it's going to be
overwhelming for people they don't really need it, Like why
would I do that if I can provide.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
An easier solution to them?
Speaker 5 (05:48):
So that's the first if we'd agreement that this is
separational society, I like to approach this basing my treatment
and three pillars I like to call them pillars.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Or three ask them.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
Those three aspects are the first suspension of absences. That
will mean that the dogs shouldn't be left alone without
a human at any time, never except during train but
the training is supervised, is controlled, and we're really adjusting
how much he can be left alone, she can be
left alone, but we're observing so it's safe.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
So that suspension of absence.
Speaker 5 (06:24):
Is that the first thing that really triggers people in general.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
It's funny because.
Speaker 5 (06:30):
Many people are already doing it or are at least
doing it at ninety percent of the time because they
have seen what happens when they don't, and they don't
want their doc to suffer. And that's what happens. What
triggers to what we had been talking at the end
of our last episode that the person feels very overwhelmed
because they feel like they should be leaving the dog
(06:50):
because this is ridiculous, or because someone told them that
this was ridiculous, but in their heart, they don't want
to because they see their dogs offer so much. So
this sometimes becomes really because you know now that you
have permission to not leave your dog alone at all
while your dog learns to be okay, And I'm stopped.
(07:11):
I really like explain this a lot, and it gets
a little bit long, just because I find that this
is one of the most important points. So if you
if you are going to remember something out of this,
remember to assess and remember to suspect absences.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Think about I have this horrible example, and since I
think it makes it.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
Makes the difference, think about you'll be very afraid of drawing,
So being afraid of being in a pool any boy
to the deep air part of the pool and not
being able to touch the ground the bottom, and I tell you,
don't worry, I'll help you. You're gonna be okay. So
every day I'm gonna take you with me. We're gonna
walk together, hand back hand, and we're gonna get closer
(07:51):
to the nep side of the pool. But i'm gonna
hold you for a few seconds.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
You're not gonna be able to top to the bottom.
You're gonna be safe. I'm not gonna let you go.
I promise.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
And I do that every day, but once the week, randomly,
when the person you are sitting by the pool, just
relaxing because you know it's saying you know what is
not what is into you? Without telling you, I pushed
you into wire to the deep side, and I tell
you I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Today is not the day I'm going to help you.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
I'm sorry. You will have to find your way out
another thrown or not.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
And the next day I tell you no, but it's okay.
Trust me.
Speaker 5 (08:23):
I promise you, I'm going to take you with me.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
I'm not gonna ledgit. But would you trust me?
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Probably not?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
And it would you?
Speaker 5 (08:33):
Would you overcome your fear to the wire?
Speaker 3 (08:36):
Nope?
Speaker 5 (08:37):
Right, because you you still experience that fear going the
beyond the point that you can handle, which means the
low excuse me, over your threshold, you know, beyond your threshold,
the poyward the secuation becomes scary and frightening and adverse
it to you. So keeping that in check and helping
the dog relax can make a big difference. And you
(08:59):
can see difference with a document before starting your training
when you switch from leaving alone or not daly bases
to suspending those substances.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Let's really delve into that a little bit because that
is so important and I have to be honest, a
lot of people don't commit to working on separation anxiety
because of the need for suspended absences. Maybe you know,
they need to work during the day and that's they say,
(09:28):
you know, that's not realistic, or they just can't always
be with their dog at the you know, it can
seem overwhelming also in people, and so that is you're right,
that's very much of a sticking point when it comes
to helping people to help their dogs with it. So,
(09:50):
you know, let's talk for just a minute about how
people can be creative about coming up with solutions for that.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
It is.
Speaker 5 (09:59):
It's definitely challenging, and it's definitely, as you said, like
a spiky point where I don't know if I want
to embark on this.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
First, you have two choices.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
You continuely leave your dog alone and your dogs log
is going to freak out, you know, every time, and
things will likely get worse over time. Or you do
something about and eventually you're able to leave your dog
alone for a very good amount of time and both
you and your dog get your lives back and a
health in a healthy way. So yes, and it's valid
(10:29):
whatever decision you make, right, but it's for a quality
of life point of view. Your done is not having
a good quality of life if you're leaving, you're leading
him alone every day and reacting. That's it's not safe.
It's not healthy in any in any way. And one
of the things I also wanted to mention before I
forget is, unfortunately, with separational society, if the dog isn't
(10:52):
doing something that causes damage to our lives directly, we
don't think it's an emergency. See, so if that same
dog was actually showing aggressive behavior.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
Towards someone, and that was a deal breaker.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
Because it's actually affecting my life, you know directly, and
it's not only making the dogs offer in general that
people tend to make adjustments faster because it's dangerous because
it's affecting others. All challenges are hurting the dog, and
it's important to understand that not because it doesn't affect
(11:32):
us yet. It's not affecting the dog's pallet if life
and health, and it can excalate to a point that
it actually starts affecting our life, and we don't want
so creative ways. I always like to say that you
need a community of support, and of course if you
don't have any, and if you live you move to
a place where there's no funily, there's no friends, you're
(11:53):
on your that will most certainly add a layer of
challenge to the key that you're working with or to
your situation, and it will affect the prognosis or the
likelihood of our good right and we have to be
brand about that, and we have to consider all of
those pros and cons when we are deciding on what
to do to help our dogs or not. But in general,
(12:16):
there are a lot of different things that we can
do from neighbors, you know, like today, I take care
of your dogs and or take care of mind, you know,
like kind of like when people both get their kids
to school, you know, and take turns, kind of a
similar situation. A lot of jobs now allow you to
take your dog with you. A lot of places are
pet friendly working from the house. There's a lot of
(12:39):
elderly people a lot of animals, but they don't feel
like they can take the resk on the responsibility to
have one because of their age, but they would love
to stand up day with a dog. They can take
care of your dog.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
And of course there.
Speaker 5 (12:53):
Are also resources that you need to pay for.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
For example, robot dot com.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
It's you know, a website that it's kind of like
an AIRBMB style with reviews that you can check in
your area, and it's pretty safe.
Speaker 3 (13:05):
I have at good results with it.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Different test setters nay cares of course, and that type
of situation is the most unusual that people use now.
One of the things that I feel already gives peace
of mind is that you don't have to choose one
and stick to it for the whole week.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
So the idea or.
Speaker 5 (13:23):
The goal is to create a little puzzle that you
basically fill out with different cover with different blocks of
different health throughout your week. So Monday morning, you know
someone is going to take care of my dog Monday afternoon,
and when I work from home, and so on, until
you cover the whole the whole week and all of
(13:43):
your needs. Nowadays it has been so much easier, but
use a lot of people work from home, and there
are a lot of pet friendly areas or places.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
So in general it tends to be much easier than
you think it is. Haden said that it is a challenge.
I'm not gonna lie. Of course, it's a challenge.
Speaker 5 (14:01):
It's a commitment, and it's not easy, and sometimes it
takes a toll, and people do have ups and downs.
Because it's normal, it's okay, and I think talking about
it and being truthful about it it's also good because
it sets the expectations and the right of way so
you don't feel disappointed down the road. But having a
good coach that can help you through those challenges and
(14:25):
through that treatment and journey can make a real difference,
because when you're not feeling like you can keep going,
you know you will have someone who will show you
objectively how far you have gone. It will give you
the energy and support you need to keep going until
you conquer the world and are able to lean your
(14:46):
logs safe.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Yelone, You know it is a temporary thing if you're
working through it, so that's really important to realize too.
Let's go to your second pillar.
Speaker 5 (14:58):
The second let's do the t It says, we kind
of segue from what we were just saying. So okay,
one of the things about the training, and I kind
of going ahead, but one of the things about the
training is that eventually your training becomes your absence. So
it starts like training, right, and it's fake in a way,
But eventually, and as soon as it's possible, we're gonna
(15:20):
make that absence useful, whether that is thirty minutes, twenty minutes,
forty minutes, it's gonna be an amount of time when
we get to the point you're leaving the area that
you can use for something. Maybe it's just gonna go
We're gonna go for a walk, or it's going to
be to go to the post office and come back.
But eventually it's gonna become a long absence. And I
(15:41):
have this funny adding though that a lot of the
other people I work with first are just begging for
time to be able to go out for a couple
of hours to.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
Have dinner or whatever.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
And then when we were reached the point that we're
doing three hours, four hours, one hour, they tell me,
I don't even know what else to do, so like,
I don't want to leave my house anymore.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
And it's so funny because it's.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
True, but it gets to the point where you complain
about what you were wishing for how long time. And
in terms of how the training it's a little bit
harder to explain in just a few words, but basically
what we do our training sessions that we perform daily
that in early stages they hear around twenty minutes to complete.
The longer the absence gets, the longer they will be,
(16:28):
of course, but then they're real, so it gets a
lot easier to make them or to perform. In these
training sessions are a.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Group of steps that.
Speaker 5 (16:40):
Involve approximations to the door or to leaving or exiting departure,
and so some of them will be just going to
the door, turning mo or handle. Some of them are
going to be actually exiting, coming back and so on,
and strategically we're going to fold in everything that the
person uses or wears or brass when they're needing. So
eventually this becomes a real departure, but in a natural
(17:06):
and organic way, because grabbing my keys forty times in
a row might make the dog not react after the
thirtieth time, right, However, that is not realistic because when
I grab my keys to actually leave the house, the
dog will know the difference. So this makes the point
of putting everything together. So eventually all my routine, my
(17:30):
departure routine, is included. And as I mentioned before, the
duration of this exit eventually becomes longer and longer and longer,
but it always remains the low of the dog's threshold,
and we talk about that work before the threshold. We
define it as the moment that the situation becomes abversive
to that particular dog at that time, and that can
(17:51):
start being three seconds after I close the door on
my exit, and eventually it will get longer, bigger and
bigger and bigger, ass I works through the training, but
during the training, we'll always keep it below that so
the dog feels safe.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
And trusts the process. And it's a two finally, so everything.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
It's a beautiful way to do that. It's just the
twenty thirty minutes a day. And here's the thing is
that when you're working with a coach like Moya or myself,
you're not in it alone.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
And so what.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Happens is you are only progressing where the dog, your
dog is telling us he's okay. And how do we
know that? It's all recorded? It's very systematic. So when
they're going through each of these steps, they're recording this
is what my dog did when we did this, And
(18:46):
then as the consultants go back and look and say, okay,
so you're doing really well. So maybe here we can
move up a little bit, or maybe here we need
to stick with this, or we need to go back,
or we need to work through certain things. I know,
with the dog that we were just talking about, he
had certain departure cues that were so difficult for him,
(19:09):
and that when we added those, one was so simple
that to us it seems simple, but to him it
was huge. Was with they had a screen door to
the front door, and we had it propped open for
a while in the beginning. When we closed that, that
was the longest for him and it really it kind
(19:29):
of sews back, but we went, you know, we then
we had to systematically work through that departure queue with him,
and each time that he did, he built his confidence
to move forward to the next step. So it's very
systematic and how it's done. And like Whey said, you're
not in it alone and that's the beauty of working
(19:50):
with somebody who can really help you along the way.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
And definitely, yeah, the unlully you're me.
Speaker 5 (20:00):
I hear this a lot and unfortunately because it's getting better,
but there's not a lot of impatient around separational anxiety
widely speaking, like in terms of in the whole world,
you know, and among dog guardians. So a lot of
these people who have separational sidey dogs and they're embarking
(20:21):
on this journey to help them heal don't have a
supported family or people, not because they'll want to be
mean to them, but just because they don't understand what
the situation really is and that the training they're doing
isn't silly, and they can't feel work very lonely, and
they can feel like they're always fighting to try to
defend themselves and show that this is actually working. And
(20:46):
as coach, we can really help them and support them
so they don't feel alone, and so they really confer
once and again that they make the right decision. And
I always like when we have reached the point where
we're doing four hours, I tell them it's you tell
your family shout that show them this video, thank you
you four hours and I show it to see, Hey,
(21:11):
what you mentioned about the pit and ques or the
what we in anycy words, all of those little things
that we add to the departure. It is so interesting
how some things we then think we're going to be
triggering are so triggering. And some things that we thought
the dog was going to care a lot, they can't
care less.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
So that's why.
Speaker 5 (21:31):
It's so individual to individual. And that takes me to
one little thing I wanted to add is that you
mentioned about your the case being so severe, right, this
case that you work with, And definitely it is severe
because of the danger or the potential danger involved. Right,
It's a situation where it can go very wrong. But
(21:52):
it is important to consider that every case is severe
because no matter if the dog is just shutting down,
hiding under a table and crime very quietly that dog,
we can't really measure how much more that dog is
suffering compared to the one that is jumping from a
roof right, so in their mind they could be suffering
(22:14):
exactly the same amount. And so that's why it's so
important to consider all cases emergency. And the good news
is that there's no correlation between how some bee or
intense these signs look to pass and how hard the
training or difficult or complex it's going to be. So
you can have a case that looks horrible to your
(22:37):
eyes and the resolution can be very fast, and you
can have a case that looks very mild quote unquote
and takes a long time.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
So there's no rule to just go for it.
Speaker 5 (22:48):
And they get one day at a time and eventually
it will work out.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
How important is medicine to get involved in these cases?
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Ah, and you stole like works because that's the third pillar.
So that's the last part of the treatment. And although
it's not a mass.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
Many dogs do benefit from it.
Speaker 5 (23:09):
And the reason why they benefit from it is because
medication behavior medication that is in this particular context is
meant to support their journey, is meant to help them
deal with the situation a little bit better, a little
bit more easily, and it tends to create more consistent
response from the dog. So instead of having hard days
(23:32):
or harder days and easier days to.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Code with the whole situation.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
They are more stableized and they tend to increase that
streshold we were talking about. So if they are not
able before the met they weren't able to tolerate more
than three seconds, and I'm just giving numbers.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Of course, it's random.
Speaker 5 (23:51):
They might be able to tolerate them at that stage
for example. The way that I and you know, of course,
the most important thing is for you to go to the.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Bed and to ask for help.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
I love teamwork, so I love to create a connection
and a group that is supporting each garden and their
dog by connecting the bed with maybe other behaviors if
it's needed or available with the trainer who is helping
with separational society. Maybe there's another trainer involved for another
(24:23):
challenger working with maybe there is a pet sitter, a
dog walker. And if we are all you know and
sync and we're all talking to each other, we can
truly help and track all the data and all the
progress and all the challenges to really optimize what we're
doing and reach our goals. So the first important part
would be to talk to your bed, to connect everybody,
(24:47):
so they can like talk to each other and share
their findings and choose if the dog would benefit from medication,
if the dog is healthy, and if there are other
medical issues, because that's very important to without medical issues
that could be making this look like the creatial anxiety,
or that it could be affecting the separation anxiety even more,
(25:08):
and then determine if behavior medication is it's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
They just as.
Speaker 5 (25:14):
A very light comment or or things that dicting attention
to to maybe think that it could the dog could
be a good candidate for medication, or if the progress
is inconsistent and you can repoint the inconsistencies to anything
in particular. So some days the dog does great in training,
(25:36):
some days the dog doesn't.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
But it's not because that they.
Speaker 5 (25:39):
Went to a boomer or bell or there was a storm.
It's just it's random.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
There's no there's no way of really connecting the dogs.
Speaker 5 (25:48):
Or if the dog has other behavior issues, if the
dog has generalized anxiety, no sensibility, confinement issues or activity
to other dogs, fear anything like that that on top
of the separation anxiety. That tells me that it is
very likely that beharoation will be able to stabilize that
dog and help him to feel better in general, and
(26:09):
if you feel better, you will perform better.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Right.
Speaker 5 (26:12):
If we don't feel better, we can't really work our
way through life in a healthy, productive way.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
The saying goes with for our does.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
So another thing that comes up people want to know
how long do I have to do this for.
Speaker 5 (26:31):
I think once people understand that this is an emotional disorder,
they realize that it is really impossible to tell how
long it's going to take. Because if I have fear
of drowning and it's a phobia, it's an irrational so
I can't handle it. I can although I know it's silly.
I might know it's silly. I can't really be exposed
(26:52):
to the situation without my heart rate increasing. If I
go to the therapist and I tell the therapist, hey,
you know what, I need to work on this, but
I need you to heal me in six months because
I have a trip to the Korean and I am
meant to go as normally. Do you think that therapist
is gonna tell me, yeah, cool, I'll have you perfect
(27:14):
in six months. Rolling not, because it's not up to
the therapist to give me a timeline because of course
they oh, no, right, It depends on me and how
my plasticity, how I can allop to the situation.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
And also it depends.
Speaker 5 (27:29):
On the environment and how the environment is supporting what's
happening my medical issues, potential, mygal issues, things that are
happening in my life changes, among others. The same goes
for the dog. So any environmental change that could be
affecting the situation overall medical issues could be affecting that timeline.
How much we're working with your dog, Meaning I don't
(27:49):
want you to overwork with your dog, but if you're
not being consistent, that might affect that outcome too, and
that timeline and the dog listicity. Sometimes dog just needs time.
Sometimes you don't have to make any changes of the training.
You just have to keep doing the same boring thing
over and over and there's a moment when it just clicks,
(28:10):
because sometimes you just need time to overcome tents. Yeah,
you need to say integrate it. And so unfortunately, if
I'm going to have an answer, and what I can
tell you though, is that.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
If you keep going, you will get there.
Speaker 5 (28:25):
It might take years, it might take months, I don't know,
but it will take the biggest reason for failure is stopping.
And most of the people I have worked with who
haven't reached the finish line, it's because they have stopped
for it.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
So it just help out there and these can be successful.
That's the key message that we want to leave people with. Well,
what a fabulous conversation. Oh my goodness, I'm so glad
we were able to do this. So you have educational
opportunities for both pros and for dog owners. So where
(29:07):
can people find you, because it's such a valuable resource,
all of us and so much.
Speaker 5 (29:15):
They can find me at Separation Society dot com. I
do have help for dog Garnians and I have help
for dog professionals from online support for both. I do
support other colleagues through online help and consultations. And I
do have a platform like the we were talking about
(29:37):
at the beginning of the first episode with the Shadowy program.
And there are different seminars, not only me as a
speakers there as a speaker there. They have some webinars
from other guests, but all related to separation anxiety. And yeah,
that's that's that's about it.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Not anbulds and I'm gonna have link and more of
your information on the show notes so people can find
it there too well.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
Thank you for joining me.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
It's been such a pleasure.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing to my podcast,
Come back often and tell your friends. If I can
be of any help to you and your pet. Please
reach out to.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Me via my website www.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Dot so muchpotential dot com and.
Speaker 6 (30:32):
For a lot more information, fun and videos, please follow
me so Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube. See
you soon.
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