May 12, 2024 • 22 mins
Jennifer Shryock is owner and founder of Family Paws® LLC. She is a certified dog behavior consultant (CDBC), has a bachelor’s degree in special education, with over 30 years’ experience. She has served on multiple boards, including the International Childbirth Education Association, and was vice president of Doggone Safe, a non-profit dedicated to dog bite prevention and victim support. A recognized expert on dog and baby/toddler interactions and safety, Jen has mentored hundreds of dog professionals, written and spoken extensively about these topics including in media such as The Wall Street Journal and Martha Stewart LIVING.
While working with a rescue organization from which she adopted her dog, Jen found herself supporting families with babies or young children overwhelmed by the challenges of their situations. The need she saw for support and education led her to build resources for new and expecting families. Family Paws® offers the highly endorsed international program Dogs & Storks® for expecting and adopting families, Dogs & Toddlers™, and educational programs for dog professionals globally.
I am one of hundreds of licensed Family Paws parent educators worldwide who have completed Jen’s 13- week program to support young families.
Among what we cover:
What is Active Awake Adult Supervision and why is it important?
Common challenges to give you thought
Tips for welcoming home your baby.
For resources and much more information from Family Paws, please visit www.familypaws.com.
For information about dog training (and parrot behavior consulting) with Lisa Desatnik, CPDT-KA, FFCP, FDM, CPBC, please visit www.SoMuchPETential.com.
While working with a rescue organization from which she adopted her dog, Jen found herself supporting families with babies or young children overwhelmed by the challenges of their situations. The need she saw for support and education led her to build resources for new and expecting families. Family Paws® offers the highly endorsed international program Dogs & Storks® for expecting and adopting families, Dogs & Toddlers™, and educational programs for dog professionals globally.
I am one of hundreds of licensed Family Paws parent educators worldwide who have completed Jen’s 13- week program to support young families.
Among what we cover:
What is Active Awake Adult Supervision and why is it important?
Common challenges to give you thought
Tips for welcoming home your baby.
For resources and much more information from Family Paws, please visit www.familypaws.com.
For information about dog training (and parrot behavior consulting) with Lisa Desatnik, CPDT-KA, FFCP, FDM, CPBC, please visit www.SoMuchPETential.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Lives Touched by Pets, a show for those
who love and are loved by pets. I'm your host,
Lisa d Satne, a certified trainer with so much potential
in Cincinnati, Ohio. I am so glad that you're here. Welcome.
When your family includes a dog and you're expecting a baby,
(00:29):
it's important to plan ahead for minimizing stress and optimizing safety.
In this episode, you'll hear some helpful preparation tips and considerations.
I'm talking to my own teacher and mentor on this subject,
Jennifer Shriach. Jennifer is owner and founder of Family Pause,
from which I am a licensed parent educator. Jennifer has
(00:53):
also served as a board member of the International Childbirth
Education Association, recognized expert on dog and baby toddler interactions
and safety, and has written and spoken extensively on these topics.
If you are an expecting parent, this will be a
(01:14):
valuable discussion for you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Jennet, it's so good to see you today, or saice
to seeing each other on Facebook and emails, but this
is really nice to be able to see each other
in person.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, it is. It's great to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
You've done so much for me and my career and
as far as being able to help other families. And
I'm looking forward to this sharing some more insight with
families too, because this is so important. Start explaining a
little bit about your inspiration for starting family pause. Sure,
So my inspiration was Moose. I adopted a German shepherd
(01:56):
and learned very quickly that you know what. We went
to German Shepherd Rescue. We went for a puppy and they.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Kind of laughed at us and said no because we
had a three year old and two year old and
so you know children, and so they rightfully so said no,
I don't think a puppy is a good idea. But
we ended up with a four to five year old
German shepherd and he was fantastic. But he taught me
a lot and he got me involved in rescue, which
(02:23):
is where I saw the need for support for families.
You know, I saw people who were heartbroken or had
situations that they didn't know what to do. It just
was a huge need, you know, for families with young children,
and there wasn't a lot of support out there. There
was obedience, there was other things out there, but there
wasn't a lot specifically for families with toddlers and babies
(02:48):
and that kind of thing. And so I really wanted
to create something.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's great, and what you've done is created a worldwide
movement to help families. So talk to us about what
are some of the major challenges that a couple may
face when they've got a dog and they're preparing to
grow their family and have a baby.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Some of the major challenges are that they don't know
what they don't know yet, and so they're living their
life with their dog in an everyday life, not knowing
what life with an infant's going to look like. And
so our job is to come in and kind of say, Okay,
this is going well for you here in this situation,
and we may want to tweak this just a little
(03:33):
bit for when a baby comes. So, for example, people
who don't normally put their dogs behind a gate or
have their dog in it, create when guests come or
things like that. Those things may change things like that
that they maybe didn't think about. You know, their dog
is fine. Their dog they haven't used creating or gating
or anything since puppyhood or first adoption, but we use
(03:58):
it a lot in management to help things stay secure
and comfortable, you know, for both baby and child and dog.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Because it's both for our safety and to help everybody
to minimize stress as much as we can for both
dog and the parents, because everybody's going to be going
through stress and it's going to be challenging. There's a
family that I'm working with right now that we're so
used to having their dogs sleep in their bed. Talked
(04:30):
about that and the challenges with that, and how that's
not active adult supervision. Talk to us about what you
teach us about active adult awake supervision.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So it's really important to have active awake adult supervision.
And I even throw in aware supervision if you can
add more. A's there. You know, when incidents happen, and
they rarely do, but if they do, it usually is
a lack of supervision. And I don't mean this in
a critical way. I mean this in an everyday way.
You know, parents turn their back for a minute, or
(05:04):
they go do something and just miss a moment. Accidents
happen in a moment's time, So we want to be
proactive in our supervision and plan ahead. So if we're
going to step away for a minute, we're going to
have a plan for that stepping away, whether we step
away with the dog or we have the baby in
a carrier, but we're going to have a plan for that,
(05:25):
especially during those first three months while that infant is
so brand new to the dog and the dog has
no idea that the infant is, you know, this near
and dear part of the family. There's no familiarity bond,
and that takes time, and so we want to make
sure that we are providing options for what our families
(05:45):
can do. Part of that.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Has to do it too, being able to recognize when
your dog is showing stress or your baby's showing stress,
and you're going to feel stress soon, no doubt, when
you're in a situation like this. So we can so
easily find photos and YouTube videos online for people to practice. Unfortunately,
(06:10):
watching for stress signs and these dogs if we just
you know, YouTube babies and dogs or so, it's such
an important thing about education and educating about body language
and things too.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
It is so incredibly important body language, you know, is
the dogs can't communicate with their verbal skills, so they
can't tell us what's going on, much like our toddlers can't.
Our toddlers can and our babies can't. So they're actually
on an even playing field the baby and the dog
is that they can't verbally communicate both they can communicate
(06:48):
with body language. And so it really is in our
best interest as parents to get familiar with subtle signals
in infants along with subtle signals in dogs, so that
we just become super curious about body language and what
it's communicating so that we can help in the situation.
(07:10):
You know, so if an infant is feeling uncomfortable. So
for example, I know a lot of people I don't
recommend this, but a lot of people like to have
their dog go up and sniff the baby in the
face or lick the baby in the face, and a
lot of babies will respond to that with a grimace
and pulling away and things like that. Well that's communication,
that's body language. That's important communication that we need to have.
(07:34):
And so it's you know, we need to pay attention
to those things. But if we don't know what we're
looking for, then we don't know. So again, you don't
know what you don't know, or you know what you
know until you grow is what I like to say.
You know, when you start to realize that those things
are uncomfortable, then you start to recognize it, and then
(07:58):
you can make alternative plans and you can go about
interaction a different way. But until you know that it
all looks good, doesn't.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It, that's still important. So that's a very very important
first step is understanding what are some other common challenges
that you see with people that are expecting.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I think there are expectations, There are expectations of what
you know, how things are going to go. You know,
there can be a clash in We were talking about
this today in class about how different partners come from
different backgrounds and so their experience with dogs from their
childhood could be extremely different and that can lead to
(08:40):
some difficulties. So challenges in bringing together how they're going
to raise their baby and dog and what that's going
to look like and what's okay and what's not okay,
and what kind of discipline or how you know, how
they're going to raise the dog, how how are they
going to discipline is not the right work, but how
(09:02):
are they going to teach the dog and how are
they going to include the dog and how are they
going to do those things? They need to come together
on that and sometimes bring in a professional to help
them do that because the expectations can be wild, It
can be the expectations can be really different depending on
(09:22):
what your experiences are. Sure, we talk a lot about including,
but at the same time including with safety and with
management in mind.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Talk about that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So we definitely want to include our babies, but at
a level that is comfortable for our dog. And the
way to do that is to provide some distance. I
use barriers, I use xpens, playards, I use gates, crates,
and we want our dogs to see our baby, but
we don't necessarily need them to be up close sniffing
(09:58):
them and licking them and you know, exploring them. We
want them to see them so that they're getting a
sense of what they're doing, how they smell, how they act,
how they you know, but observing at a distance. They
don't need to be up close and personal. It's just
too risky for an incident to happen, even just by
(10:19):
a paw lift or I've got to you know, my
large dog, if he would swing his head back, he
would he could easily hurt a baby or knock a
baby over. So we want to have safety there.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We talk about the difference to between introduction and homecoming,
because you know, when there's the word introduction, there's I
think there's so much pressure there to for direct contact,
in your face, meeting each other. Yeah, that's what homecoming
is really about. Let's talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
So I like to look at homecoming as a period
of time period of three months that is, you know,
roughly three months. You know, that is from when baby
comes home until about three months of age, where the
dog has had a chance to habituate and get used
to it. And I find that this takes pressure off
of the adults as well, from thinking that they need
(11:19):
to make everything happen overnight. It doesn't happen to happen overnight.
And so a lot of times people will give calls
into our support line and they'll say, oh gosh, introduction
didn't go well, and they're scared and they're crying and
they're upset, and it just makes me sad because you know,
if we can say to that, listen, it just takes time.
(11:39):
It takes time, and your involvement in the supervision and
your involvement in inclusive activities, all those things are going
to be important and allow you to develop this relationship,
but over a period of time, not over one day.
Introduction implies it's one and done. When I think of
(12:00):
an introduction, I think I introduced myself to you one time,
and that's it. If I went around and introduced myself
to you over and over again, you would think I
was weird. So's it's one and done. That can't be
true with our dogs, It just can't. Our dogs need
more time. And the baby is constantly changing and growing
(12:22):
and looks different and sounds different, and just in those
early early weeks, cries different, smells, different behaves, different moves,
different sounds different, all those things. So babes change so
much in that period of time that you know, we
really need to allow for that, for those developmental milestones
(12:47):
and everything, and allow our dogs to take the time
to get comfortable.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, you know, we don't think about this in the
same way, but if you were introducing a dog to
a cat, or you are bringing home a puppy to
introduce to the dog. Now not everybody does this, but
we really recommend again similarly, going slow, take it slow,
(13:15):
make sure that they're comfortable with each other, and teaching
skills and behaviors and knowing what to watch for all
those things that are really important, and it can take
months for that tet.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
So yeah, been laughing because I'm going through this right now.
I have five cats. I have an eight month a
nine month old Golden Retriever, and a two year old Collie.
And we just lost our Majure, you know, our dog
that kind of signaled everything to everybody, you know, Olliver,
And so it's just it's such a difference, right, and
(13:48):
it's it is. It's a process. It's such a process,
and it takes time. And I'm reminding myself it takes
time with the cats, like I had to manage them
before we got on here today, you know, and you know,
and and different different types of management and that kind
of thing. But you're right, it's the same thing that
we do for cats and dogs.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
We try to provide positive encounters, positive calm encounters where
we're not chasing or we're not you know, we're not
doing anything wild, but we're just trying to provide nice
calm interaction and giving them a chance to see. So
much of the time, especially when it comes to babies
(14:35):
and cats, would be when they move that the dogs
are like, you know, what are we doing? So, you know,
allowing them the opportunity to see with a barrier in
place and reinforcements ready is really the way to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Go, not taking anything to chance and.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Now and using leashes and using all sorts of things.
So man is key, It's really key. I'm I'm speaking
of it, and I'm at this point in time in
my personal life that I'm exhausted by management. And that's
something that our families will say, it's so much to do. Yes,
(15:16):
it is a lot to do. It is a lot
to do, and I'm I'm here with you in it,
and I definitely understand that it's a lot to do.
But it takes time. It takes time for these relationships to.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Develop, especially when they're innspecies and you know, friends they
can get together and they can help you with some
of these things, and maybe they can take dog for
a walk, or they can babysit your dog, give you
respit sometimes, or can come over and have a little
party to stuff food toys.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Please stuff the toys. Yeah. I love having frozen frozen bones.
I mean I just went down and gave my dogs
each a bone. Having something like that available in those
moments where you have a crying baby or you just
need you just are at your end, you know, and
(16:09):
you just think, oh, and we give them something to do.
It's a win win, it's a win win.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So so there, you know, people just need to understand
too that they're not in it alone and they've got
you know, you and your hotline and family pause and
there are educators like me all around the world that
are there to help. Yes, definitely reach out and know
that you are not alone and what you are feeling
(16:38):
is just you know, I mean, it's part of the process.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It's exhausting. I think you know when someone has a
toddler and a dog and they say, oh, it's really easy,
it's going great. I got a question because I've raised
four toddlers and I've had many, many, many dogs, and
it's not easy. It's exhausting, and so it's exhausting. So
(17:08):
if it's if it's easy, great, but step back and
make sure that you are indeed following the comfort level
of your dog.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
That you are.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Watching for subtle signals licking lips, turning away, whale eye,
half moon eye, or the whites of the eyes, showing
changes in breathing pattern, changes in turning away, you know,
just different things. Making sure that your dog is really
appreciating the child. If every time your child comes up
(17:43):
to your dog, your dog licks them in the face,
it may not be about affection. It may be what
I reference as kiss to dismiss. There's a lot of
different things that can be going on, So we want
to pay attention to all those things. And the more
you're familiar with it, the more you can't help but
see it.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
You know, yeah, miss it, you know, yeah, absolutely, And
let's we'll talk and delve into further into the toddler
phase of this and the infant phase of raising dogs
and kids together.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Talk about what it means to be dog aware. When
you define that, the dog aware.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
To me means and it's a phrase that I've coined,
it means body language, sensitivities, proximity, and supervision. So it's
those four components. I found that so many people talk
about supervision and they talk about, you know, but what
it means to supervise. But you can't supervise unless you
(18:48):
know body language. And you can't really know dog sensitivities
unless you know the body language of the dog. So
you don't know if a dog is uncomfortable with certain
sensory things unless you've seen, unless you can read their
body language, unless you can say all right, that's indicating discomfort.
(19:09):
And then proximity, it's the same thing as sensitivities. You
have to be able to read the dog's comfort level
to say all right, that's uncomfortable. You know, we're going
to increase space and give some more distance and things
like that, and then we can have real true supervision.
So to me, full awake aware adult supervision is what's required.
(19:33):
And we say awake too because we don't want someone
falling asleep or especially with a toddler in the house,
you know, and a dog, we want them to be
We want the full aware supervision. So dog aware is
body language, sensitivity is proximity and supervision.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. I think when people tell me, oh, my dog
was fine, a lot of times that fine means the
dog really isn't so fine. So define that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I find that people define fine as my dog did
not growl.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, you know, I didn't react, my dog didn't. It's
it's always about didn't my dog didn't. They didn't do right,
But it's not about what did my dog in joy
or you know.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, did he rollover for more? Did he did he
ask for more? Or it's more what didn't they do?
You know, That's what I find. And so a good
way to check if your dog is enjoying something is
you know, some people call it consent test.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I call it.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I do pet pet pause the family dog does pet
pet pass, So pet your leg, pet, pet your leg,
and pet the dog and then pause. I say pet,
pet pause because my cat told me that, you know,
if I pet him too many times, he would nip me.
So I always say pet, pet, stop, pause, and see
(21:04):
does the animal that you're interacting with want to continue
that interaction or have they had enough? Because they'll let
you know. And with a dog, they'll move their head,
they might shake off, they might walk away, they might
turn away, they might, like I said, get up and
shake off. So we want to make sure that we're
(21:26):
checking to be sure that they're wanting to continue in
that interaction.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, absolutely, tell you what.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Why don't we do a little part two with this
and let's talk.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Delve into more about some of the issues with infants too.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
This is going so well, so.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Stay with us and tune back next week and we're
going to talk about when kids get a little bit
older than babies and what we can do to prepare
for that too.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoy this episode, please consider
subscribing to my podcast, Come back often, and tell your friends.
If I can be of any help to you and
your pet. Please reach out to me via my website
www dot somuchpotential dot com and for a lot more information,
(22:21):
fun and videos, please follow me so Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram,
and YouTube.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
See you soon.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is Lives Touched by Pets, a show for those
who love and are loved by pets. I'm your host,
Lisa d Satne, a certified trainer with so much potential
in Cincinnati, Ohio. I am so glad that you're here. Welcome.
When your family includes a dog and you're expecting a baby,
(00:29):
it's important to plan ahead for minimizing stress and optimizing safety.
In this episode, you'll hear some helpful preparation tips and considerations.
I'm talking to my own teacher and mentor on this subject,
Jennifer Shriach. Jennifer is owner and founder of Family Pause,
from which I am a licensed parent educator. Jennifer has
(00:53):
also served as a board member of the International Childbirth
Education Association, recognized expert on dog and baby toddler interactions
and safety, and has written and spoken extensively on these topics.
If you are an expecting parent, this will be a
(01:14):
valuable discussion for you.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Jennet, it's so good to see you today, or saice
to seeing each other on Facebook and emails, but this
is really nice to be able to see each other
in person.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Yeah, it is. It's great to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
You've done so much for me and my career and
as far as being able to help other families. And
I'm looking forward to this sharing some more insight with
families too, because this is so important. Start explaining a
little bit about your inspiration for starting family pause. Sure,
So my inspiration was Moose. I adopted a German shepherd
(01:56):
and learned very quickly that you know what. We went
to German Shepherd Rescue. We went for a puppy and they.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Kind of laughed at us and said no because we
had a three year old and two year old and
so you know children, and so they rightfully so said no,
I don't think a puppy is a good idea. But
we ended up with a four to five year old
German shepherd and he was fantastic. But he taught me
a lot and he got me involved in rescue, which
(02:23):
is where I saw the need for support for families.
You know, I saw people who were heartbroken or had
situations that they didn't know what to do. It just
was a huge need, you know, for families with young children,
and there wasn't a lot of support out there. There
was obedience, there was other things out there, but there
wasn't a lot specifically for families with toddlers and babies
(02:48):
and that kind of thing. And so I really wanted
to create something.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
That's great, and what you've done is created a worldwide
movement to help families. So talk to us about what
are some of the major challenges that a couple may
face when they've got a dog and they're preparing to
grow their family and have a baby.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Some of the major challenges are that they don't know
what they don't know yet, and so they're living their
life with their dog in an everyday life, not knowing
what life with an infant's going to look like. And
so our job is to come in and kind of say, Okay,
this is going well for you here in this situation,
and we may want to tweak this just a little
(03:33):
bit for when a baby comes. So, for example, people
who don't normally put their dogs behind a gate or
have their dog in it, create when guests come or
things like that. Those things may change things like that
that they maybe didn't think about. You know, their dog
is fine. Their dog they haven't used creating or gating
or anything since puppyhood or first adoption, but we use
(03:58):
it a lot in management to help things stay secure
and comfortable, you know, for both baby and child and dog.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Because it's both for our safety and to help everybody
to minimize stress as much as we can for both
dog and the parents, because everybody's going to be going
through stress and it's going to be challenging. There's a
family that I'm working with right now that we're so
used to having their dogs sleep in their bed. Talked
(04:30):
about that and the challenges with that, and how that's
not active adult supervision. Talk to us about what you
teach us about active adult awake supervision.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
So it's really important to have active awake adult supervision.
And I even throw in aware supervision if you can
add more. A's there. You know, when incidents happen, and
they rarely do, but if they do, it usually is
a lack of supervision. And I don't mean this in
a critical way. I mean this in an everyday way.
You know, parents turn their back for a minute, or
(05:04):
they go do something and just miss a moment. Accidents
happen in a moment's time, So we want to be
proactive in our supervision and plan ahead. So if we're
going to step away for a minute, we're going to
have a plan for that stepping away, whether we step
away with the dog or we have the baby in
a carrier, but we're going to have a plan for that,
(05:25):
especially during those first three months while that infant is
so brand new to the dog and the dog has
no idea that the infant is, you know, this near
and dear part of the family. There's no familiarity bond,
and that takes time, and so we want to make
sure that we are providing options for what our families
(05:45):
can do. Part of that.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Has to do it too, being able to recognize when
your dog is showing stress or your baby's showing stress,
and you're going to feel stress soon, no doubt, when
you're in a situation like this. So we can so
easily find photos and YouTube videos online for people to practice. Unfortunately,
(06:10):
watching for stress signs and these dogs if we just
you know, YouTube babies and dogs or so, it's such
an important thing about education and educating about body language
and things too.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
It is so incredibly important body language, you know, is
the dogs can't communicate with their verbal skills, so they
can't tell us what's going on, much like our toddlers can't.
Our toddlers can and our babies can't. So they're actually
on an even playing field the baby and the dog
is that they can't verbally communicate both they can communicate
(06:48):
with body language. And so it really is in our
best interest as parents to get familiar with subtle signals
in infants along with subtle signals in dogs, so that
we just become super curious about body language and what
it's communicating so that we can help in the situation.
(07:10):
You know, so if an infant is feeling uncomfortable. So
for example, I know a lot of people I don't
recommend this, but a lot of people like to have
their dog go up and sniff the baby in the
face or lick the baby in the face, and a
lot of babies will respond to that with a grimace
and pulling away and things like that. Well that's communication,
that's body language. That's important communication that we need to have.
(07:34):
And so it's you know, we need to pay attention
to those things. But if we don't know what we're
looking for, then we don't know. So again, you don't
know what you don't know, or you know what you
know until you grow is what I like to say.
You know, when you start to realize that those things
are uncomfortable, then you start to recognize it, and then
(07:58):
you can make alternative plans and you can go about
interaction a different way. But until you know that it
all looks good, doesn't.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
It, that's still important. So that's a very very important
first step is understanding what are some other common challenges
that you see with people that are expecting.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
I think there are expectations, There are expectations of what
you know, how things are going to go. You know,
there can be a clash in We were talking about
this today in class about how different partners come from
different backgrounds and so their experience with dogs from their
childhood could be extremely different and that can lead to
(08:40):
some difficulties. So challenges in bringing together how they're going
to raise their baby and dog and what that's going
to look like and what's okay and what's not okay,
and what kind of discipline or how you know, how
they're going to raise the dog, how how are they
going to discipline is not the right work, but how
(09:02):
are they going to teach the dog and how are
they going to include the dog and how are they
going to do those things? They need to come together
on that and sometimes bring in a professional to help
them do that because the expectations can be wild, It
can be the expectations can be really different depending on
(09:22):
what your experiences are. Sure, we talk a lot about including,
but at the same time including with safety and with
management in mind.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
Talk about that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
So we definitely want to include our babies, but at
a level that is comfortable for our dog. And the
way to do that is to provide some distance. I
use barriers, I use xpens, playards, I use gates, crates,
and we want our dogs to see our baby, but
we don't necessarily need them to be up close sniffing
(09:58):
them and licking them and you know, exploring them. We
want them to see them so that they're getting a
sense of what they're doing, how they smell, how they act,
how they you know, but observing at a distance. They
don't need to be up close and personal. It's just
too risky for an incident to happen, even just by
(10:19):
a paw lift or I've got to you know, my
large dog, if he would swing his head back, he
would he could easily hurt a baby or knock a
baby over. So we want to have safety there.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
We talk about the difference to between introduction and homecoming,
because you know, when there's the word introduction, there's I
think there's so much pressure there to for direct contact,
in your face, meeting each other. Yeah, that's what homecoming
is really about. Let's talk a little bit about that.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
So I like to look at homecoming as a period
of time period of three months that is, you know,
roughly three months. You know, that is from when baby
comes home until about three months of age, where the
dog has had a chance to habituate and get used
to it. And I find that this takes pressure off
of the adults as well, from thinking that they need
(11:19):
to make everything happen overnight. It doesn't happen to happen overnight.
And so a lot of times people will give calls
into our support line and they'll say, oh gosh, introduction
didn't go well, and they're scared and they're crying and
they're upset, and it just makes me sad because you know,
if we can say to that, listen, it just takes time.
(11:39):
It takes time, and your involvement in the supervision and
your involvement in inclusive activities, all those things are going
to be important and allow you to develop this relationship,
but over a period of time, not over one day.
Introduction implies it's one and done. When I think of
(12:00):
an introduction, I think I introduced myself to you one time,
and that's it. If I went around and introduced myself
to you over and over again, you would think I
was weird. So's it's one and done. That can't be
true with our dogs, It just can't. Our dogs need
more time. And the baby is constantly changing and growing
(12:22):
and looks different and sounds different, and just in those
early early weeks, cries different, smells, different behaves, different moves,
different sounds different, all those things. So babes change so
much in that period of time that you know, we
really need to allow for that, for those developmental milestones
(12:47):
and everything, and allow our dogs to take the time
to get comfortable.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, you know, we don't think about this in the
same way, but if you were introducing a dog to
a cat, or you are bringing home a puppy to
introduce to the dog. Now not everybody does this, but
we really recommend again similarly, going slow, take it slow,
(13:15):
make sure that they're comfortable with each other, and teaching
skills and behaviors and knowing what to watch for all
those things that are really important, and it can take
months for that tet.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
So yeah, been laughing because I'm going through this right now.
I have five cats. I have an eight month a
nine month old Golden Retriever, and a two year old Collie.
And we just lost our Majure, you know, our dog
that kind of signaled everything to everybody, you know, Olliver,
And so it's just it's such a difference, right, and
(13:48):
it's it is. It's a process. It's such a process,
and it takes time. And I'm reminding myself it takes
time with the cats, like I had to manage them
before we got on here today, you know, and you know,
and and different different types of management and that kind
of thing. But you're right, it's the same thing that
we do for cats and dogs.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
You know.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
We try to provide positive encounters, positive calm encounters where
we're not chasing or we're not you know, we're not
doing anything wild, but we're just trying to provide nice
calm interaction and giving them a chance to see. So
much of the time, especially when it comes to babies
(14:35):
and cats, would be when they move that the dogs
are like, you know, what are we doing? So, you know,
allowing them the opportunity to see with a barrier in
place and reinforcements ready is really the way to.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Go, not taking anything to chance and.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
Now and using leashes and using all sorts of things.
So man is key, It's really key. I'm I'm speaking
of it, and I'm at this point in time in
my personal life that I'm exhausted by management. And that's
something that our families will say, it's so much to do. Yes,
(15:16):
it is a lot to do. It is a lot
to do, and I'm I'm here with you in it,
and I definitely understand that it's a lot to do.
But it takes time. It takes time for these relationships to.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
Develop, especially when they're innspecies and you know, friends they
can get together and they can help you with some
of these things, and maybe they can take dog for
a walk, or they can babysit your dog, give you
respit sometimes, or can come over and have a little
party to stuff food toys.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
Please stuff the toys. Yeah. I love having frozen frozen bones.
I mean I just went down and gave my dogs
each a bone. Having something like that available in those
moments where you have a crying baby or you just
need you just are at your end, you know, and
(16:09):
you just think, oh, and we give them something to do.
It's a win win, it's a win win.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
So so there, you know, people just need to understand
too that they're not in it alone and they've got
you know, you and your hotline and family pause and
there are educators like me all around the world that
are there to help. Yes, definitely reach out and know
that you are not alone and what you are feeling
(16:38):
is just you know, I mean, it's part of the process.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
It's exhausting. I think you know when someone has a
toddler and a dog and they say, oh, it's really easy,
it's going great. I got a question because I've raised
four toddlers and I've had many, many, many dogs, and
it's not easy. It's exhausting, and so it's exhausting. So
(17:08):
if it's if it's easy, great, but step back and
make sure that you are indeed following the comfort level
of your dog.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
That you are.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Watching for subtle signals licking lips, turning away, whale eye,
half moon eye, or the whites of the eyes, showing
changes in breathing pattern, changes in turning away, you know,
just different things. Making sure that your dog is really
appreciating the child. If every time your child comes up
(17:43):
to your dog, your dog licks them in the face,
it may not be about affection. It may be what
I reference as kiss to dismiss. There's a lot of
different things that can be going on, So we want
to pay attention to all those things. And the more
you're familiar with it, the more you can't help but
see it.
Speaker 4 (18:02):
You know, yeah, miss it, you know, yeah, absolutely, And
let's we'll talk and delve into further into the toddler
phase of this and the infant phase of raising dogs
and kids together.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Talk about what it means to be dog aware. When
you define that, the dog aware.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
To me means and it's a phrase that I've coined,
it means body language, sensitivities, proximity, and supervision. So it's
those four components. I found that so many people talk
about supervision and they talk about, you know, but what
it means to supervise. But you can't supervise unless you
(18:48):
know body language. And you can't really know dog sensitivities
unless you know the body language of the dog. So
you don't know if a dog is uncomfortable with certain
sensory things unless you've seen, unless you can read their
body language, unless you can say all right, that's indicating discomfort.
(19:09):
And then proximity, it's the same thing as sensitivities. You
have to be able to read the dog's comfort level
to say all right, that's uncomfortable. You know, we're going
to increase space and give some more distance and things
like that, and then we can have real true supervision.
So to me, full awake aware adult supervision is what's required.
(19:33):
And we say awake too because we don't want someone
falling asleep or especially with a toddler in the house,
you know, and a dog, we want them to be
We want the full aware supervision. So dog aware is
body language, sensitivity is proximity and supervision.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yeah. I think when people tell me, oh, my dog
was fine, a lot of times that fine means the
dog really isn't so fine. So define that. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
I find that people define fine as my dog did
not growl.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, you know, I didn't react, my dog didn't. It's
it's always about didn't my dog didn't. They didn't do right,
But it's not about what did my dog in joy
or you know.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, did he rollover for more? Did he did he
ask for more? Or it's more what didn't they do?
You know, That's what I find. And so a good
way to check if your dog is enjoying something is
you know, some people call it consent test.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I call it.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
I do pet pet pause the family dog does pet
pet pass, So pet your leg, pet, pet your leg,
and pet the dog and then pause. I say pet,
pet pause because my cat told me that, you know,
if I pet him too many times, he would nip me.
So I always say pet, pet, stop, pause, and see
(21:04):
does the animal that you're interacting with want to continue
that interaction or have they had enough? Because they'll let
you know. And with a dog, they'll move their head,
they might shake off, they might walk away, they might
turn away, they might, like I said, get up and
shake off. So we want to make sure that we're
(21:26):
checking to be sure that they're wanting to continue in
that interaction.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Yeah, absolutely, tell you what.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Why don't we do a little part two with this
and let's talk.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Delve into more about some of the issues with infants too.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
This is going so well, so.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
Stay with us and tune back next week and we're
going to talk about when kids get a little bit
older than babies and what we can do to prepare
for that too.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Thanks for listening. If you enjoy this episode, please consider
subscribing to my podcast, Come back often, and tell your friends.
If I can be of any help to you and
your pet. Please reach out to me via my website
www dot somuchpotential dot com and for a lot more information,
(22:21):
fun and videos, please follow me so Much Potential on Facebook, Instagram,
and YouTube.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
See you soon.
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