All About the Very First "All In"

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Should we move on to the to the main event
twenty eighteen all In, Yes, a day that uh oh,
I have a graphic, I should load this up. A
day that really was the beginning of something much much bigger.
And you know more about the subject than I do,
but I yes, I do have some strong feelings about,

(00:24):
you know, the long term effects that this had on
the wrestling business. Of course, there's a there's a graphic
that I found for all In that I thought looked
pretty cool. I found a couple different ones, but there's
a There is the man of the moment there, Cody Rhoads,
the American Nightmare, along with the Young Bucks.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
The yeah, I mean for me, all In was the moment,
like because I had been going to indie wrestling shows.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
For quite some time.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Since two thousand and three, I've been going to indie shows,
and the talk at those shows was what if there
was an indie wrestling super show that could take on WWE.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
And Vince McMahon.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, and you know, two thousand and three, Ring of
Honor was really starting to hit the ground running got
derailed with the Rob Feinstein scandal involving pedophilia. Yeah, Rob
Feinstein created Ring of Honor. He's the owner of RF Video.

(01:39):
R F Video very popular amongst tape traders as the
top tape trading pro wrestling tape trading mail in website whatever.
But he's the one who did the ECW fancms where
you could get recordings of ECW house shows.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
Which were very very big if you lived in an
area where e c W didn't air.

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Because they would do monthly deals where you could buy
a month of ECW TV and we caught up for
the pay per view so would help generate pay per
view sales at the zero hour.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
What happened was Rob was busted.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
As a part of a Pennsylvania news uh news channels
underage sex sting a lah think uh think i'lla uh.

Speaker 3 (02:39):
Catch a predator.

Speaker 1 (02:41):
Oh yeah, it was like that.

Speaker 2 (02:46):
And what happened because of it is TNA Wrestling pulled
all of their top talent. All their talents that were
there were pulled immediately from Ring of Honor, Jerry Lynn,
ajs SS, Christopher Daniels, and Christopher Daniels was basically going
to be given a title run which would have paid

(03:07):
off their top storyline, which was the prophecy disavowing the
code of Honor and what would happen if Christopher Daniels
was champion. We were about to find out, but instead
Ring of Honor had to pivot. Yeah at that point,
and it was a good thing they did, because then

(03:28):
we got Samoa Joe's really long title reign. CM Punk
became bigger main event player for Ring of Honor. Other
guys really got to put their foot in the door
as well. Homicide low key, even though he was let
go because called Rob Feinstein a baby toucher and a

(03:51):
scathing promo.

Speaker 3 (03:53):
Basically, yeah, at.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
Roree Born ending a promo win him and Homicide started
the Robweilers.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
Yeah, he said, We're going to take over a promotion
run by a baby toucher.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
So what ended up happening.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
Rob Feinstein got unceremoniously removed. Basically it was a hostile
takeover with him and the other owners Doug Gentry and
Carrie Silken basically forced him out and took his shares
and r o H was even pulled from r F video.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Oh wow.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Okay, so yeah it was huge, which really hurt Ring
of Honor in the short term because our video was
able to record edit produce and mail out all a
Ring of Honors events so they didn't have to put
extra cost into that production.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
Wow, So that was always the talk.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Is what happened, if you know, IWA Mid South, which
was run by certified piece of shit Ian Rotten, IWA
Mid South, NWA and ringa Honor got together and just
did a super show, like a two day event. Because
you had regional major events, like in the Midwest the

(05:24):
big one was probably.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
The Ted Petty Invitational.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
East Coast had the ECWA Super Eight Tournament that launched Stars,
So you had all of these regional big shows well,
so there was never never this idea of them all
coming together to make a national super show.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well, so in theory at the time, if you're talking
about that, then what you're really talking about is something
that resembles sort of the prevents territory system, right, where
you've got these multiple territories working together with one show, right.

Speaker 3 (06:02):
And that was why all In was so cool.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
It's because now you had that opportunity, you had that ability,
and you.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Know it, man, just it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
And I guess uh and they were calling it all
in because they were going they were all in. They
were going all in and really taking a big risk here, and.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
This is very big risk.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
They could have Tony and the Young Bucks and bring
him honor produced the event.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, this is pre young Tony Khan. We should just
make that clear for it to everybody who is who
is confused. This is before Tony Khan enters the picture.
This is the original all in before ae W.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
This is what led to ae W.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Really yeah, yeah, so yeah it was.

Speaker 3 (06:55):
It was just monumental.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Yeah. Yeah. What was also so interesting about it to
me at the time was so Cody Rhodes after leaving,
So he leaves WWE, he was tired of being stardust.
I can't remember fill this in for me because you
have a better memory for these details than I do.

(07:19):
He was his contract up and he just didn't want
to resign or did he ask for his release and
they gave him his release. You remember, he asked.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
For his release and it was granted under the caveat
he could not use the name Cody Rhoades.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Right, which he interestingly enough, though, he went on social
media and claimed that he could. I don't know if
you remember this detail. I thought it was strange at
the time. After Dusty passed away, Cody posted, I think
it was I might have been Twitter. He said, I
own the name Roads. I was with him from the
beginning to the end, or something like that, which everybody

(07:54):
kind of knew wasn't legally technically true. But he was
making that claim. But then, of course, you know, once
a W started and he went there, he didn't use
the name Roads, just like he did not on the
Independent Circuit because he couldn't. He was just Cody. He
was just Cody. But so so he had left, he

(08:15):
was he was tired of being stardust. I actually thought,
how did you feel about the STARTUS character? I actually
liked it?

Speaker 3 (08:21):
Drizzling ship?

Speaker 1 (08:22):
You didn't like it? I actually I liked it. But
but they should have pivoted once it had run its
course and they didn't seem to want to.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Drizzling, riddling, drizzling shit.

Speaker 1 (08:36):
Cody wanted to pivot, but they didn't want to pivot.
Why why didn't? What was there anything specific?

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Cartoony? It was comical.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
It was dumb, just like even okay, even before start
Us you could see see Cody Roads had ability.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Sure, it just was untapped.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
And we we've said it so many times before, like
Jim Ross says, sometimes you have.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
To learn a new hold.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:05):
I think Cody when he went to the Independence betting
on himself, he really, you know, came into his own Yeah.
And I think that's very important for the audience to know.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
But do you did you object to Stardust in terms
of like, would you have preferred they do something more
short term or would you prefer that they had not
done done it at all?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
I didn't want him do it at all. I thought
it was dumb. I I you know, I liked it.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
I popped for it at first. I did. I can't
tell if you're I can't help if the screen is
frozen or you're just in shock.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
Never admit that again. I did the first time he
came out of start it.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
No no, no, no no no no no no no, don't let's
move on.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yeah. I don't want you to.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
You bear your wrestling sins here, like I've committed some
sins in wrestling, like a major ones. Like I've popped
for some ship I shouldn't have popped for. There was
a time on Raw that they're they're like a major
guy is a major star is coming back? I thought

(10:20):
it was Chris Jericho. The lights went out in the
arena and.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
I popped and it was the Mizz.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah I popped.

Speaker 3 (10:29):
I marked out for the Miz.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Sure, so.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
Yeah you, but you billingly admitted I did.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
I liked it.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
I did, just don't the.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Cartwheel and everything. I like the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
I thought it was fun, the whole some bang I
did for Kid, the whole kit, the whole kit and kaboo.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
I did. I like the whole thing. I thought it
was cool. I I like the weird things. He would
say that didn't make sense. I like the whole thing.

Speaker 3 (11:03):
I don't even know you anymore.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
I know, right, I just I'm sitting here and I'm like,
I don't know Matt Connorton.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Maybe that's not even my real name. Maybe my real
name is Pat Monerton for all you know.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
Maybe it is Matt Covington.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Maybe it is or Matt Connington or yeah, yeah, but no.
I liked it. But I do think it went on
too long, and there should have been a There should
have been a pivot. There should have been an angle
where he where he says I've had enough of this
or something. They could have done something, but instead they
just let it go on, and he talked about it
when he first left wwe talked about, you know, he

(11:41):
went on podcasts and talked about how like he had
all these ideas and he would go into a room
to talk to one of the writers and they would say,
you know, they would brush him off. They would say, oh,
you know, I don't I don't know. I'm too busy
to talk to you about what we're gonna do with
your character. And he even told the story you've probably
heard him tell it. He walked into a room to

(12:01):
talk to one of the writers and the writer was
pretending to be busy typing something on his laptop, and
Cody could actually see from where he was standing that
the computer wasn't even on, and it was like they
were just they were just brushing him off, giving him
the uh oh, Miriam vanishes in the Chatterman, says Matt Calmington. Yes,
that was That's why some of my hypnotherapy clients call

(12:23):
me Matt Calmington. Calmingtons.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Well, maybe you're not Calmington when you sit here and say, oh,
I popped for Stardust.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Maybe I was hypnotized by Stardust. I'm pretty sure he
had that ability.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
You were hypnotized by shit apparently.

Speaker 2 (12:39):
Well that's fine, swizzling shit, but uh shit everywhere.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
But he wanted to pivot, and they wouldn't work with him.
I wouldn't want.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
To I would want to pivot too if I was
served a turned sandwich right right, like I would pivot
from a turned sandwich to cold raw come in if like,
what do we know?

Speaker 3 (13:04):
Of course he wanted to pivot.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
I gotta find a picture of stardust for people who
don't know what we're talking about. I mean, I assume
most people who are enjoying this podcast.

Speaker 3 (13:13):
It was. It was.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
It was maybe a smidge better than Dashing Cody Roads.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Now see I liked that too, because I thought I
just thought it was kind of funny.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
Well everyone, it's been a fun ride.

Speaker 1 (13:27):
But you didn't like to dash. You didn't like Dashing Cody.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
Roads or him was just like mustache ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
See, I thought those were funny because he seemed to
have h he seemed to have an ability to play
those characters. But but that was But that's the thing though,
they should have so because he had proven himself there
he is in all his glory, their stardust, I know.
But because he had proven himself because here's the thing,

(14:04):
he no matter what he did, whether it was Stardust,
whether it was Dashy Cody Roads, whatever, whatever they gave
him to do, he always applied himself and did his
very best. He you know, he had his dad's philosophy
on that. You know, Dusty when he went to WWF
and they Evince put him in the Polka dots, and
Dusty said, Okay, I'm gonna get this over, you know,
and he did sort of. I mean, nobody the truth

(14:25):
that he gave about the Poka dots. He just cared
because he was Dusty Rhoades and he was gonna be
over no matter what. But Cody, you know, he threw
himself in everything he was given, including Stardust and Dashing
Cody Roads. But that should have proven to them that
he could do whatever. So if he wants to pivot,
then maybe you listen to him and you and you pivot.

(14:47):
And they didn't want to work.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
With him, well, I mean, I give Cody credit that
he worked hard at it, and you could tell he
worked hard at it.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
It just was.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
I got rid of him for you, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:06):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
But eventually hard work just doesn't pay off.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
If this is what you're given.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm sorry, that's it.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Brass tacks.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
So Cody leaves, So he asks for his release, he
leaves WWE. He did something I thought was very interesting
that I've never seen anyone do before. He made the list.
He made a list. This was before Chris Jericho's list, right,
He made a list of people he wanted to face
on the independent scene.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
I mean, I mean he went on a major barnstorming
Nabe tour.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
Yeah, like he.

Speaker 3 (15:52):
Hit in every major promotion.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
And then once his name got big, New Japan jumped
on the Cody bandwagon. Then Ring of Honor came calling
and No Ring of Honor was first.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Then New Japan.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Yeah, that's when it was okay, we got this hot group.
Well they weren't, they were big, but they were about
to become nuclear.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
The Bullet Club, the Bullet.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Club, and when Cody mixing with the Bullet Club just
one of those things.

Speaker 3 (16:34):
That happened at the right time.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
You can't predict it, you can't, you can't do anything,
but once it happens, ride that Lightning Bowl and the
New Japan did to Internet pay per view and things
just took up topic T shirt deals.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
I remember you know.

Speaker 1 (17:05):
You, it's you.

Speaker 2 (17:08):
Sat there and said Monday Night Raw sucks, SmackDown sucks.
But there was never any challenge to be better. Right
then the Bullet Club hit and it's like that's it.
Because there was always Ring of Honor, there was always
New Japan, there was always the Ndies, But there wasn't

(17:30):
this Pruss.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
There wasn't this pressure on Vince.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah. Yeah, the wrestling business has to have there has
to be competitive forces within the business or otherwise otherwise
everybody gets complacent and a little bit lazy.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
It just happens, you know, And I think a lot
of this was wrestling fans wanted something new, and they
got it with the Bullet Club, and they got it
with Cody Rhodes. They got it with Kenny Omega, Matt
and Nick Jackson, the villain, Marty Scroll hang me in,

(18:10):
Adam Page. Adam Cole was a member of the Bullet
Club until he was unceremoniously kicked out.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
You know.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
And then New Japan announces we're going to partner up
with Ring of Honor, and that's when it really exploded,
because now you had an American outlet where these guys could.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
Go and perform, right.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
I remember when I realized it was big. Twenty seventeen.
Summer twenty seventeen, Ring of Honor announces their Global Wars tour.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:58):
I'm going to look this up because.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
The original date for ROH Global Wars was one date
only Columbus, Ohio, and one.

Speaker 3 (19:22):
Star was announced.

Speaker 1 (19:25):
Yeah. Kenny Omega, Okay, love Kenny Omega.

Speaker 2 (19:31):
The best bout Machine was easily one of the top
ten greatest of all time.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yep, yep, without a doubt. You then.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
Sold out in thirty minutes. Yeah, so then they're like, well,
let's add more in. Kenny Omega said, I'll do all
the dates. So it expanded to starting in Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Columbus,
and ending in Chicago, Sorry, Billa Park, Illinois, a suburb

(20:15):
in Chicago, Chicago Expo Center. Yeah, and it sold out.
All four shows sold out. And you know what they
Ring of Honor Honor club membership went through the rough

(20:36):
because they did something very interesting. Buffalo was not even
streamed at all.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
The first night.

Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, but night two Global Wars Pittsburgh was I pay
per view. No Global Wars Pittsburgh wasn't streamed. It was
done for TV taping. Grubble War's Columbus was streamed as

(21:06):
a part of Honor Club Grubble Wars Chicago. The last
night that was the night that they did the they
did the ipay per view, and the ipay per view crashed.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
So for anyone who doesn't know, just so we're clear,
so an eye pay per view of pay per view
that's strictly on the Internet rather than the traditional with
the you know, through satellite and the cable companies and everything,
and uh and that crashed during the event.

Speaker 3 (21:40):
Yeah, it crashed.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
I mean they got it back up pretty quickly, and
it crashed right around intermission, so as luck would have it.
But I remember they cut a promo and Cody Rhodes
in the middle of the ring at the end said.

Speaker 3 (21:56):
Pro wrestling is cool again.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
And then the next day they did a meet and
greet at Pro Wrestling Tease that sold out in twenty minutes.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
I mean, my god, just plenty money that.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Weekend yep, yep.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
And you realized that that was the prespice of this idea. Well,
they just sold out for not I wouldn't call them
marinas but for five thousand C clubs, and they did

(22:42):
it in areas that have a heavy wrestling footprint. But
if they could sell five thousand with promotion, what could
they do.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
The thing is that at this time, the way that
I remember it just as a fan, is there was
such a there. You know, it wasn't that, It wasn't
that at that point in time that that interest in
pro wrestling was had been waning so much as just
fans had become so disenchanted with what was such a

(23:15):
weak WWE product at that point, Because I even at
that point, it had been a couple of years since
I had even subjected and I'm a lifelong wrestling fan,
but it had been probably a couple of years since
I had actually sat down and watched from beginning to
end raw or SmackDown, like actually sat and watched it.
In fact, for a long time, I'd fallen into a

(23:36):
pattern of I wouldn't watch it at all. I would
go online questions, I wouldn't watch it at all. I wouldn't
watch the shows at all. I would go online find
out what happened, and if it looked like something interesting
happened that I actually gave a shit about I would go
on YouTube and I'd find the clip of it on YouTube,
and I would watch that and then. But it was
also around this time I kept hearing about NXT and

(23:57):
NX obviously a part of WWE, but Triple H was
running it at the time, and I kept hearing about
how NXC was actually so much cooler than what they
were doing on the main roster. So I checked it
out and I got hooked immediately because we were getting
something from NXC that we didn't get anymore on the
main roster, you know, And I just so the desire,

(24:19):
I think, because I'm sure there's probably god knows how
many people in the same position as me who they'd
just been so bored with raw and SmackDown and they
just wanted something more compelling. And it was out there.
It just had to find it, or it had to
find us.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
But it was out there, right and you, and it
was out there, and by the time that event happened,
it was now in your face. Because keep in mind,
the Bullet Club had been poking the bear leading up
to that.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
They went to a WWF live event.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
And recorded it for being the for uh BTE being
the elite.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Their their YouTube show being the Elite.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
Yeah, and Jimmy Jacobs was on it. That ended up
getting him cut from his producer role.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
What was he actually in it though? Or or didn't
they just take a picture with him and the picture
took with him? Yeah, because he was a WWE employee.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, funny side story to that.

Speaker 2 (25:27):
At the end of the Global Wars event, Jimmy jumped
the guardrail and took a picture with.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Them, did they Yes, somewhat.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
People were throwing their cell phones into the ring for
them to take a selfie with it. It was just crazy,
Like that's when I met Kenny Omega because they had
a meet and greet before the show. I met Kenny Omega,
I met the young Bucks. I met Cody at that event.

(25:58):
And Cody, this is why I say Cody can't.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Be a heel.

Speaker 1 (26:03):
Okay, very curious dude.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
Here my cousin Austin Hicks, and I hope you make
this story into a short okay, because it should be
diehard Cody Rhodes fan. Okay, big Cody fan. He had
school the next day. Global War Chicago was on a Sunday.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
He had school. Yeah, couldn't go.

Speaker 2 (26:29):
Mom wouldn't let it. So I had paid to meet Cody.
I decided I was going to go ahead and uh
Paul Austin and let him talk to Cody on the phone. Yeah,

(26:51):
and I did so Andy he loved it. And Cody
keep in mind, they would do autographs as a part
to the meet and greet.

Speaker 3 (27:01):
Of course they paid.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Yeah, but the Star's got a large chunk of that money.
Cody signed an autograph photo for Austin at no additional charge.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, no, it's very nice.

Speaker 3 (27:16):
Had no charge.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, it had like a three to four minute conversation
with him on my phone.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Oh that's very cool.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
Yeah. So look, he.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
It was that connection that the fans had with the
members of the Bullet Club, this access that they had
with these guys.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
But wasn't the Bullet Club a heel group?

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Though?

Speaker 3 (27:43):
Didn't matter, did not matter.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah. I just think that even.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
When a Jay Styles was a leader of the group
and they were heels, people still loved them.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Well they were cool heels. Yeah, just like the nWo
or any number of other you know, I.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Actually think the Bullet Club is more.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
Influential than the nWo. Oh interesting, because you look at
you look.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
The Bullet Club essentially started a pro wrestling organization.

Speaker 3 (28:20):
Hm en WO just.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
Took millions upon millions of dollars in great story and everything,
but it didn't have that staying power.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, I see what you mean. I see what you mean.

Speaker 3 (28:34):
The Bullet Club man, they're still over.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I feel like, though you you've argued against your own
point about Cody because you say you can't be a
heel because he's such a great guy. And I understand that.
And and by the way, there's no shortage of wonderful
stories about Cody Rhodes's will accounts, he's an incredible human being,
which is one of the great things about him seeing,
you know, seeing him being the guy, the guy at

(28:59):
the top of the mountain right now. It's great to
see he earned it. And and he's by all accounts,
he's a wonderful person. But yes, but he's he was
a wonderful person while being technically a heel, So why
couldn't he be a heel?

Speaker 2 (29:13):
People still even when they did the Bullet Club Civil
Wars storyline, Yeah, Kenny Omega was over like Rover Okay, Yeah,
pro wrestling teas the team Cody shirts sold just as
much as the team Kenny shirts.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, So no, he can't.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Because even when they tried to make Cody a heel
and they had him turn on Kenny Omega, had him
turn and tried to take away Kenny's creation the Bullet
Club from him. Kenny is the reason why it became
this multi million dollar empire and all this other story,

(29:59):
and Cody's this evil man trying to take it away
from Kenny, take away his best friends, take away everything.
And all Kenny has is is I w GP. Have
you a championship in Coda Bushie.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Still loft Cody?

Speaker 1 (30:14):
Sure, but that's.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
If you If you can't have him turn on someone
like Kenny Omega and get him booed.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
I don't think anything will.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
This guy could go in butcher Puppies and fans wouldn't
find a way to say the puppies had it coming.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
Sure.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
I just I don't think you can do it.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
I mean, John Cena is a wonderful human beings. He
holds the record for make a wish.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
But what he hated Sena, Yeah, that is a valid
There was always this undercurrent of that's that's true, he.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Should be a heel. That hasn't been that with Cody.
There hasn't been the.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Oh, I disagree at the level that John Cena had it.
In a W. The fans were turning. They were they
were getting pretty sick of good guy Cody and they
wanted him to and Cody wouldn't do it, but they
wanted him to turn. They started booing him. They wanted
him to turn.

Speaker 2 (31:26):
Let me ask you some a W fans they still
cheer for John Moxley right as the world champion.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
I get I don't watch AW enough to know, but
I I assume that's true.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
That that shows their intelligence level. Let's okay, I'm feeling
kind of salty today.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Don't but don't you want I mean, I mean, after
a while, don't you want to see a new dimension
to a character because he has healed characteristics anyway, like.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
We does have healed characteristics. But if you're going to
do that, it's you're going to do it, you better
make damn sure it's gonna work. Sure, because let's look
at it like this, What if Hogan's heel turn didn't work?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, w c W's done. I don't know if I
don't know about that, but they, oh, yeah, they are because.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
You because you've deeped sixed your whole story.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Well, yeah, yeah, they'd have to, they'd have to do
a pivot that they probably wouldn't have been able to
pull off. You're right, no, no way, it was.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
All the eggs were in the basket, and that's what
you'd be doing with Cody. You can do it with
John Cena now because you know eventually the fans are
gonna come back around and it's already started because they
know that we're.

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Nearing the end of the road to this legendary career.

Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah, he's gonna turn face at the end and yeah,
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah, but there isn't I don't think there's a reason
to even try it with Cody.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
Oh I'm not saying that should by the way, I'm
not saying, just to be clear, there's no reason to
do it right now. I'm saying in the future though,
fresh when when it's time to freshen him up, because
that day is gonna come.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
But but.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Here's the other thing Cody has in his contract the
ability to take time off.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
I'm a firm believer in this.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Had John Cena throughout his career had the ability to
take extended amounts of time off, those calls for a
heel turn wouldn't have been as strong.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Yeah, because you you wouldn't be sick of it. It
was like Jim Cornett always says, how can I miss
you if you won't go away?

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yep, yeah, yep. So you know, or you're or you're
cheering form because it feels real.

Speaker 2 (33:48):
And that's why you know, even if you turn c
I'm punk heel, he's still gonna get those face reactions.

Speaker 3 (33:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, undoubtedly.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Well we're also but we also to we live in
an era now where I think fans have become condition
to accepting that now more than ever, that you know,
you don't necessarily have you know, good guys who are
always good, and bad guys who are always bad because we,
as I've talked about many times, we see in today's wrestling,
especially in current WWE, we see a level of character

(34:24):
development that we have not ever seen ever.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Also, I just thought of this in regards to Cody.
Let me embraces both sides of it. He loves he
embraces the booze and the cheers. Yeah yeah, when you
when you're a heel, you can't embrace those.

Speaker 3 (34:45):
You can't embrace the booze. They have to make you angry.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
And that's the great thing about Cody is he's so
fam centric that he is.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
You know what you paid for your ticket? Boom me,
cheer me cool? I got a reaction?

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, yeah, And and it's very hard to make that
guy a heel because that what are you going to do?
Haven't come out and say, oh, I always hated it
when you bowed me. Really, we the same person's been
booing you for five years.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
Now, what.

Speaker 3 (35:26):
What's changed? What's changed, Cody?

Speaker 2 (35:29):
You know? So that's the other hard part is in
today's wrestling in smarks being in the know, it's very.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
Hard for you to do that. M Yeah and so,
but Cody's embraced it and that has done nothing but
help his popularity.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah. Oh absolutely so. How many of these shows did
they do before before all In was conceived?

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Well, Border Global Wars happened in October of twenty seventeen. Okay,
that led to the next ROH blockbuster weekend.

Speaker 1 (36:13):
Ok when they did.

Speaker 2 (36:15):
War of the Worlds And it was in May twenty eighteen.
Why this is important as it was Ring of Honors
next trip to Illinois and that day.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Is when all In was announced.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Okay that it was official, it was.

Speaker 2 (36:39):
Going to be, it was going to be in Chicago.
They had a press conference at Pro Wrestling Teas Yeah,
to announce tickets going on sale that day, and they
sold out in.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Less than thirty minutes and only announced one match.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yeah. That's that's incredible. Yeah, that's really incredible.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
And this was not a small arena.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
It is the now Arena in Hoffman Estates, Illinois, and
it seats roughly ten thousand, five hundred and forty three people.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
I was gonna say, yeah, I remember, I remember it
being right around ten thousand. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:27):
Well you know why it was right around ten thousand.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Why because someone asked Uncle Dave on Twitter, do you
think the Bullet Club could sell out a ten thousand
seed arena? And Dave responded very snarkily, not anytime soon,

(37:52):
and Cony responded, want to bet on that? And that is.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
Uncle Dave lost that bet.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah. I mean, in Dave's defense, I will just say
I was very skeptical at the time myself. I know,
I didn't think they didn't I didn't think it was
I didn't think I didn't think it would be a failure,
but I didn't think it would sell out.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
I didn't think it would sell out in thirty minutes.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
No, I certainly didn't think that.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
No.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
I said it would sell out in two weeks. Okay, wow,
I said, because being in these live crowds, seeing the
reaction these guys were getting, seeing hot topics, sell out
of the shirts and the merchandise and pro wrestling tease
becoming a multi million dollar empire, all because of the

(38:46):
Bullet Club. It's like, yeah, I remember being in line
for the Ring of Honor meet and greet at War
of the World's Illinois that night and people trying to
get tickets.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
And no one could.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah were you so? Were you there? Were you at all?
In I did not get tickets, Okay.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
Like I entered contests, I I tried.

Speaker 1 (39:14):
I even had tickets to star cast Oh did you Yeah?

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, but I didn't end up going because I was like,
if I'm not because scalper prices were insane.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Oh yeah, no doubt, no doubt. So then yeah, so
now there's some details that I'm not clear on. So
they so they do this event. So who was in
charge for the event. It was basically Cody the Young Bucks,
Kenny Omega, Adam Paige. Is that who who was in

(39:49):
charge of running this whole thing?

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Not Adam Paige because voted by Cody and the Young Bucks.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Okay, they're all and.

Speaker 2 (40:00):
Ring of Honor handled the backstage, handled the video production
of it. That's where the issue of ownership comes into play, okay,
because Ring of Honor owns the rights to the original
all in Yeah, again a misstep by Cody in the box,

(40:23):
I mean not really the Bucks because they're members of
a E W.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
So Ring of Honor is owned by a E wright. No, no, biggie.
But for Cody it is.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Well, what do you what do you mean? Because do
you think.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
So?

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Do you think that they shouldn't have allowed.

Speaker 3 (40:45):
Do you think they didn't do their new deal they
get I think they were over a barrel. I think
in this is me spitball in here.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
I think in the uh, in the big to do
of getting arena, getting talent, but getting everything, there was
a oh shit, how are we going.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
To air this? Yeah? Yeah, And Ring of Honor comes
up and says, hey, we'll produce it.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Because in theory, so if they hadn't solved that problem
and they couldn't air it though, I mean, it would
still be a successful event, right, even if you've got
an event, yeah, not.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
Sold out, but you're not going to get the pay
per view dollars. You're not going to get the you're
not gonna get the reairs. You're not gonna get because
keep in mind that even after the event, people were
talking about how amazing it was, right, so they were
really gearing up towards re airs and rebuys. And if

(41:47):
you spent that thirty nine I think it was thirty
nine to ninety nine. If you spent that, you've got
to keep the event.

Speaker 3 (41:54):
It was yours.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Oh okay, yeah, yeah, so you can watch it as
many times as you Yeah. Yeah, so I've never actually
watched it. Did Ring of Honor? Did they do a
good job producing it?

Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (42:09):
The production was great. The issue is is they really
ran some matches, really ran over.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
The main The main event had to be cut okay,
cut down big time.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
But look at the end of the day, my goodness,
it just I mean, I think, uh, I think the
big thing was I think what kind of hurt the

(42:47):
momentum of this show was, I want to say two
weeks before, maybe a little longer, Kenny Omega had won
finally beat Zucco Kada for the IWGP Heavyweight Championship belt.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
So it was like, what do you do with Kenny Omega? Now?
Him and Pentka had an amazing.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Match, but you're just like it just in you had
Okata versus Marty scrawl, so it it. I don't know,
I think fright inside being twenty twenty, maybe they should

(43:32):
have pushed for Kenny to win it at all in yeah,
and that be your main event.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
But I get New Japan.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Saying and I don't know if they said no, but
being like, no, it's happening here because that two out
of three falls match is one of the top matches
of all time? Which match is that Kauzuciko Kada versus
Kenny Omega two out of three falls match?

Speaker 1 (43:58):
See, I've never actually seen it. Yeah, I'd like to
see that. So so after so I know, I know
next week we're gonna talk about AW. Should we should
we talk now about the part where this becomes where
this leads AW or should we save that for next week?

Speaker 2 (44:21):
I mean we can kind of touch base on it
because once once numbers started coming in, then it was like, okay,
and here's where Ring of Honor made a misstep, a
bad one. Ring of Honor produced the show. Yeah, but

(44:45):
the Box, Henny Omega, Hodie Roads, and Adam Page their
contracts were expiring. Yeah, Ring of Honor probably should have
made them add a year or two to their contracts

(45:08):
if they were going to produce this show. Because once
that happened, man, the clamoring was real and it was Okay,
they've made money, They've made they were I would say
at that point they'd become millionaires, but not enough to
start their own pro wrestling company. They needed a money man, right,

(45:32):
and that's where Tony KHM came into play. A lifelong
wrestling fan playing with daddy's money.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Do you know anything about because obviously so if they
were under contract a Ring of Honor at the time,
it had to be in their contracts that they were
allowed to do independent bookings, right Otherwise No, no, otherwise,
how were they even able to do this? To begin with?

Speaker 3 (45:58):
ROH produced it. It was an rh pretty show. So
was that?

Speaker 2 (46:02):
So?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Was that part of so? I guess what I'm trying
to figure out is so did r OH have to
was that part of the agreement? Okay? Well, from r
OH to standpoint.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
It was just uh, just uh, we'll produce it for you,
sign this.

Speaker 1 (46:18):
Agreement, okay, because in order for r OH to allow
them to even make this event happen, there had to
be an incentive.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
No, in an r OH contract, you can do indie bookings, okay,
as long as the indie shows do not supersede with
a Ring of Honor event.

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Okay, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (46:41):
And there were other.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Things too, like if you're a Ring of Honor champion,
they are in control of your booking, meaning that if
you go to a promotion, they're not going to have
you lose to com pletis the trash man? Yeah, Or
you're going to be in a tag match with other
Ring of Honor guys and Ring of Honor gets to

(47:03):
choose the finish, right, Okay, so it's yeah. But and
keep in mind that Ring of Honor held their American contracts,
New Japan held their international.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Oh that's right, okay, yeah, but New Japan had nothing
to do with this event, right, No, No, New.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Japan allowed their talent to take part in it, okay,
But other than that.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
No, okay, okay, do you think and maybe this is
something more for next week, But I'm just curious a
quick take. Do you think that the real reason Tony
Khan bought Ring of Honor because he damn sure hasn't
done much with it. I mean he hasn't. He hasn't.
But that's that that part.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
Let me say something here.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
You probably already you probably already know what I'm gonna
ask you.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
I actually want to bring this up. It's to me
what Tony Kahn has done to Ring of Honor.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (48:03):
Ring of Honor is the greatest independent wrestling promotion ever.
And you look at the talent that we have because
of Ring of Honor. Christopher Daniels, Day Lethal, AJ Styles,
well not so much AJ, but Samoa Joe, CM, punk

(48:31):
On down the line, Roger Strong, Austin Aires. I could
go on and on about Ring of Honor. I love
Ring of Honor. I would ride with my buddies. We
would leave at a let between eleven and noon on
a Ring of Honor show day, drive four hours to Chicago,

(48:53):
see the show, and drive four hours back. Yeah, be
totally amp after that show because we were so blown
away and we only paid twenty bucks to get in
the door. Yeah yeah, but yeah, Ring of Honor had
one of their top what is like one of their

(49:14):
premium events last night? No one knew about it, right,
I know, Yeah, it's what Tony Kahn has done.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
But I was curious about your thought on a specific thing.
And like I said, you probably see this question coming.
But do you think the real reason Tony Khan bought
Ring of Honor was because he wanted that first all
in He wanted the rights to that first all in event,
and the only way to get the was to buy
the company.

Speaker 3 (49:43):
I think for Tony. I think for Tony it's who
But man, gotta be careful here. Tony's a fan boy
at his core, Sir. I think Tony loves owning Ring

(50:06):
of Honor. He just doesn't know what to do with it.

Speaker 2 (50:09):
Yeah, apparently, and that's unfortunate because Ring of Honor should
be able to book itself. Really, I don't even know. Yes,
Supercart of Honor was last night, Okay, Supercart of Honor
with a big wrestle Mania weekend event. Yeah, that is

(50:32):
where we got Kenny Omega versus Cody Rhodes for the
first time.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
Yeah, it's just a shame.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
I remember Final Battle, uh, knowing every every Black Friday
Day after Black Friday. It was Final Battle Ring of Honors,
last event of the year, and you knew something big
was gonna happen. I were Death before Dishonor was always
where you had blowoffs to some of the biggest feuds.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
That's where you had the CM Punk Raven Dog Collar match.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
I mean this is.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Grade a high quality stuff. That Ring of Honor always
did glory by honor, when you had dream matchups, when
you had CM Punk versus Terry Funk.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
But knowing all that, though, do you think in addition
to so, I'm going to add something to the to
the equation in terms of my question, did he want
the original all in and he wanted just like when
WWE bought WCW, they got that sweet tape library, did
Tony Library?

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Yeah, he wanted that tape library because keep in mind,
when he bought Ring of Honor, CM Punk, Daniel Brian
Plaudio Casting, Noli All Ring of Honor mainstay Samoa Joe
was coming in he had then, Yes, so that tape
library was huge and he really hasn't done anything with it.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
Yeah, it's so strange, it's it's bizarre. And allegedly I
remember him saying once that claiming. I say claiming because
it's it's almost hard to believe that he had, in
fact had offers to put a Ring of Honor show
on cable television, possibly on TBS or TNT or elsewhere,

(52:29):
and he just didn't, oh no, or at one point
he said it was not TBS or TNT but somewhere
outside of that company, but out of loyalty, he didn't
want to put Ring of Honor on a competing network
or something. It does really weird. He's his statements. Whenever
anybody asks him about Ring of Honor, it gets very strange.
But yeah, he hasn't done anything with it.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
It's like a kid that dreams about a toy on Christmas. Yeah,
he gets the toy and then he's like like, okay,
best way I can describe it. I just came up
with a better way.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Kid gets a giant wants this giant lego set for Christmas.
Kid gets the lego set, rips it open in immediately
sees all the separate baggies, the instruction booklet.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
That's this thick. The kids overwhelmed and is like, the
hell do I do with this? That's Tony Kahan with
Ring of Honor.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
He has it, and he has a tendency. It sounds
like he has a tendency to kind of maybe micromanaged
things too much, because I remember too hearing that when
he first bought it, he was trying to book Ring
of Honor and book I'll do all the AEW booking
and just do all of it and running or whatever

(53:49):
he does with the Jaguars and all that, and it's like, dude,
you know, Delegate, there's no shortage of people in the
wrestling business with creative minds who you know, he could
have easily just had a separate team just book Ring
of Honor and have a little bit of cross over
here and there with AW, not too much so it
doesn't get tired and stale, but a little bit and

(54:10):
do that, you know.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
I always thought the best thing to do with Ring
of Honor was what they've done with the n XT. Yes,
me too, be inn AEW developmental. Yeah, instead of doing
the YouTube show, put Ring of Honor on YouTube. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Perfect.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
It's like you do Ring of Honor.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Before your Saturday night show, tape it and throw it
on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
Yeah yeah, and if you want, you could also throw
it on HBO Max.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I mean, you know, and then you.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Can promote these events and promote Ring of Honor and
give it what it deserves, because Ring of Honor is
a very large fat of what pro of pro wrestling today.

Speaker 3 (55:04):
It really is, and anyone that.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Disagrees with that, you need to look at the history
of Ring of Honor. We would not be here, I
dare say this show would not exist if not for
Ring of Honor. You know, I'm very shocked that there
hasn't been books on the oral history of Ring of

(55:28):
Honor or anything like that, because it is a very
very very interesting story Ring of Honor and just the
amount of times that they were on life support and
just found a way.

Speaker 1 (55:46):
Oh yeah, and when Tony Kahn bought it, they were
on the ropes, right, so he was probably will get
a pretty sweet deal. Yeah, so he may even been
thinking in the back of his mind, well, you know,
I'm not paying much for this, So even if I
can't figure out what to do with it, I get
all in and I get that tape library.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Of My major issue with Rick Flair is he almost
bankrupt Ring of Honor.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Tell that story. Because I only know a little bit
of this, I don't know the whole story.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
All right.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
So Rick Flair signed an agreement with Ring of Honor
to appear at their shows and do meet and greets forth. Okay, okay,
Rick Clair was paid up front fifteen thousand dollars. He

(56:35):
only did two of the shows and no showed the rest. Okay,
if he appears, that money makes.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Itself back, right right.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
But he didn't.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
And when he did appear at the show, I met
him att in Chicago. See up the price of the
meet and greet by fifty bucks he did.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Yeah, just there on the spot. Oh my god, that day,
that's shitty.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
That day. It was an asshole to everyone without a
set of tits. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Everything you're saying, though, is completely consistent with everything that
we know about. Find it all very easy to imagine.

Speaker 3 (57:21):
That's when I hated.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
That's when my hate for Rick Flair began, because I
met him and told him like, like, growing up, I
looked up to you. You know, I didn't have a father,
growing up, looked up to you. I cried when you
lost to Ricky Steamboat. And he looks at me and
he goes, that's fucking pathetic.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Oh my god, really he said that to you. Yeah,
holy shit, did you smell anything on his breath?

Speaker 2 (57:48):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (57:48):
Yeah, he smelled like a distillery.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yeah, I mean and like he he was hitting on women,
didn't matter if they were with the guy or not. Uh,
he says, like, and then he did. I was shocked
and he leans in for a polaroid with me.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
Yeah, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
It was supposed to be one hundred dollars that included
your ticket in a meet and greet.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
With Rick Flair.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, one autograph, one photo, we get to the show,
and Rick increased it by fifty bucks.

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Jesus, or he wasn't going to appear.

Speaker 1 (58:32):
Wow, that's no, that's bad. So how did he almost bankrupt?

Speaker 2 (58:38):
He so he got fifteen grand for an indie independent
wrestling promotion. That's in indie wrestling. If you're going to
spend any amount of money on a major star, yeah,
you need to make double that back. So if you
spend fifteen grand on handful of appearances, those are parent

(59:00):
says you need to make thirty grand off of it,
or it's a financial loss. Yeah, they lost over ten grand.
Jesus on him, no showing for an indie promotion.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Yeah, that's brutal.

Speaker 3 (59:15):
That's a kick in the ball Sack. Yeah, yeah, especially.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Especially when your TV deal is on hd Net. They
were not on Sinclair yet.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
Oh okay, this was pre Sinclair. Okay, yeah, this, that
and some.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Other bad business decisions is what led to the Sinclair
deal in Sinclair being able to get it.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Oh okay. And then so how did this, how did
this get resolved or.

Speaker 3 (59:49):
This still hasn't been Okay.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
Harry Silken still will if he's at a if there
is a if there's a convention and Rick Flair's there,
Carrie Silkin will go to the convention, yeah and be like,
where's my you only ten grand?

Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
Yeah? But has he ever as Silkin ever tried to sue.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Him, No, because it's not Carrie's debt anymore, Okay, because
when Sinclair bought Ring of Honor, they bought Ring of
Honors debts, so it would be on Sinclair and they're

(01:00:30):
not going to see him and now Tony Cohn.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
And now and Tony con certainly isn't Tony.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yeah, but yeah, but that was Carrie Silkin's money. Carrie
personally put up that fifteen grand. Ye.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Now, what has Flair said about this or has he
said anything about it publicly? I'm sure he's been asked.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
Oh yeah, uh, miscommunication that was in advance, and the
first two appearances didn't make the money he thought it would,
so he could violate the deal.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Oh, because that's how it works.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Yeah in music terms, Matt, if a record doesn't sail sell,
the band can just opt out of the deal, right,
same same with the record company, which they can under
mitigating circumstances.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
But but yeah, you know man can walk. Wow. Yeah, yeah,
he no showed. The infamous one was Toronto. No showed
the event.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Yeah, and people Ring of Honor had a hard time
getting people back after that in Toronto.

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
A very hard time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
It's terrible. That is terrible.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Yeah, meeting him and.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
Then he uh, there's Yeah, there's just been a lot
about Rick Flair. And then when you write your own
book and then say I didn't I didn't contribute more
than thirty percent.

Speaker 3 (01:02:13):
I just did it for the check, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
What Yeah, Oh well, anyway, I thank you for telling
that story though, because I didn't know some of the
details on that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:28):
Yeah, Carrie Silken to this day and I've actually met Carrie. Yeah,
Carry is a great guy and loves the business. Yeah,
love the business.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Yeah, so next week obviously, well, we're going to get
into uh ae w uh more deeply. But is there
anything about all In that we didn't talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
Event rate? Event?

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
I mean, it's honored at the Now Arena. There is
a plaque on the building. Oh that actually.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
Commemorates it being the largest independent wrestling show of all time.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Oh no, kidding?

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
And yeah, all In was just, if for nothing else,
the story of Cody Rhodes winning the MWA title. Yeah,
I mean, even though they flipped it back to Nick
all this rightfully. So a couple of weeks later, this

(01:03:30):
was so great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
All right, Now, I have one more question for you,
because I said this might have been last week. I
said this, and you vehemently disagreed with me on this,
and obviously we'll we'll revisit this question next week, but
I want to I want to first ask you now
and then we'll well, we can dive further into it
next week. But the question I want to ask you

(01:03:52):
because I want to ask I want to ask you
again now that we've now that we're at the end
of our discussion about all In. Specifically, I said, going
back to Cody Roads that without ae W Cody Rhodes
is not the main event top guy that he is
in w w E today and you disagreed with me.

(01:04:12):
I'm curious. Do you disagree with me because you feel
that everything he did up to ae W with the
Bullet Club and all in and everything, do you think
that that is enough where he could he could see
That's where That's where you and I disagree.

Speaker 2 (01:04:25):
If there was no ae W, W would have signed
the box and Cody, they would not have gotten Kenny omegap.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
Are okay? So are you saying because maybe I maybe
I don't entirely disagree with you, because it sounds like
are you are you saying that? So if you take it, so,
let's say ae W never happens, but all in so
they pull off all in, every everything else about the
story is the same. Just says no eventual a W
do you think at that point, and and you know
the r O H contract is up and whatnot? Do

(01:04:57):
you think at that point w W A WWE tries
to reassign Cody, They get him and he's a top guy.
I main event guy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Yes, yes, AW changes nothing for Cody. AW changes nothing
for the young Bucks. I think the Young Bucks would
still be in WWE right now and knowing what we
know now, are Okay, let me preface this. Are you

(01:05:26):
also changing Vince losing power?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
No, Vince was No, because Vince was Vince was still
in power when they when they.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
That was a part of the issue. Cody did not
want to be booked by Vince. So Triple H.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Everything happening just no ae W Triple H ends up
taking over. Yeah, the Bucks are multiple time WWE World
Take Team Champions. I agree on that they're one of
the top ten teams in pro wrestling, and I think
Cody Rhoads is the guy in WWE.

Speaker 3 (01:06:09):
I don't. I think if Cody Roads.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Signed after all in, we do not get Roman Reigns interests.

Speaker 3 (01:06:20):
We have him right now, Really, we do not get
the tribal Chief.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Because you think that space in effect would have been
taken up after.

Speaker 2 (01:06:30):
So I think Roman Reigns ends up getting cut or
relegated to the mid card.

Speaker 1 (01:06:35):
So if we're talking about right after the initial all
in and WWE bringing him back at it, obviously at
an elevated level because he had proven he could succeed
outside the WWE system, I'm more open to that. I'm
still skeptical that he'd be quite as big a deal.
But I see what you're saying. I see your point,

(01:06:56):
and I'm starting to come around to what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Kenny ome I want to add this, Kenny Omega never
will sign with WWE.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
Yeah, never will happen.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Well, he's at the end of his career anyway, he
has to be.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
The diverticulitis almost killed I mean, I understand that. You know,
you can say the same for Brock, but I mean,
he's really he gave an interview recently where he was
talking about like he is that dude has Scott problems
with the diverticulitis. Really, he's never going to be the
same for his own sake.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
He but.

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
AEW is booking him very smart. They're not putting him
on weekly TV right right. They are bringing him in
with big stories to build the round.

Speaker 3 (01:07:48):
Yes, and if you can do imagine if WWE could.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
They're giving Kenny Omega as they should, the Roman Reign treatment.

Speaker 1 (01:08:01):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
Look so yeah, I don't believe he's.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Close to being done. And Kenny Omega will tell us
when he's close to being done. Kenny is not gonna
go out and give us matches below his standard.

Speaker 3 (01:08:20):
He goes out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:20):
If he goes out it all in today and has
a bad match with Okada, he would, I think legitimately
sit down with Tony Kah and say, hey, we need
to reevaluate my greatest rival and.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
I just had a shit match. Yeah, like it ain't
I ain't got it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
Yeah, so yeah, Kenny, No, Kenny wouldn't have signed Adam Paige.
I don't think Adam Paige would have signed. I'm a
bit if you're on that because I don't know. I'm
not as defense. I could see a situation where Adam

(01:09:02):
Page signed Marty Scroll No. I mean Marty would have
been cut because of the me too allegations. So Marty no, Yeah,
I don't see if AW doesn't happen, Cody in the
box go to WWE over like Rover.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Yeah, I'm I'm more I'm more open to what I'm
still not. I'm not as convinced as you are, but
I'm I'm more open to that point of view than
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:09:37):
This thing you can book is the success of someone
else's character. That's why Brett harton w CW always befuddled me.
Like just piggyback on that success. Eventually you'll have to
come up with.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
Your own stuff, and I think WWE would have been
more than capable. Well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
I think also we got the best version of Cody
and WWE because he was in aew Okay, because he
got that backstage experience and learned producing, putting a show together,
timing it out. Those are just things you can do

(01:10:22):
in the ring that puts you head and shoulders above
your contemporaries.

Speaker 1 (01:10:27):
Mm hmmm h yeah, okay, well, so anything else on
all in, I think we've.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
If anyone has the opportunity to see the event, I
cannot recommend it enough. All this Cody Rhodes match easily
the best, one of the best matches of both of
their careers, and they've had some really good matches.

Speaker 3 (01:10:51):
Kenny Omega versus Penta.

Speaker 1 (01:10:55):
Oh, I'd like to see that, jeez, I can imagine. Yeah, Okay, Okada,
Marty Scroll was good.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
I mean the whole event, Yeah, except the main event
because it hadn't be cut short. Top to bottom is.

Speaker 3 (01:11:14):
Money in the main event.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
When you hear the names that were in it, Koda Bushie,
Matt Jackson, and Nick Jackson versus Bandido Ray Phoenix and
Ray Mysterio