Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
We take we are a kid, it's how we be
kidd ever thought of the things.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
On the Tough Boss name.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So, what's the podcast that you're doing, tell us about it?
The wrestling podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So the podcast is the podcast. It's called the Josh
Zodiac Podcast. Okay, it stars him his brother called the
Psycho Nerd. Don't even ask me and and myself. So,
and there's a there's another co host that he's that
he's brought on and she's pretty good too. She's very knowledgeable.
(00:52):
And when we were doing the the live pl e's
I do the live recording. He does the podcast. Okay,
So when we're there's a live p l E a
big one, I'm usually the one that does it through
my channel and he joins in with with everybody, and
you know, we cover the matches. Yeah, but but he
does it's like an hour. It's it's an hour podcast
(01:14):
and discuss various different topics, usually about Ross SmackDown and
what's going on with the next pl E or other
wrestling rumors like, yeah, we talked about Hogan, we talked
about carrying Cross and Scarlett not being re signed. We
talked about how bad they are. It's just it's just
completely uh all over the place wrestling. So it's like,
(01:38):
you know, we don't discuss because I know, tough Bumps,
you focus on one topic and you guys go on
it for for however long the show is maybe two.
Not well you talk about several topics.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, no, we actually do. We actually do several topics
on Tough Bumps. What we do is so we have
the main event. Every week, we pick a subject that
we're going to cover in depth, and then but we
also have the undercar and the undercard is usually two
or three subjects that were we cover kind of a
short we have briefer conversations about leading up to the
main event, so then the main event will be uh
(02:10):
whatever it is, like uh like this past weekend, the
main event was a W kind of the history of
ae W. So we kind of we kind of do
it that way. But I mean that's but that's another
great thing about podcasting too, is you know you can
do it anyway you want to. There's no there's no rules,
there's no format to follow. You know, you can it
can change, it can evolve, it can devolve, it can
(02:33):
you know however you want to however you want to
do it. I feel like you've have you worked with
Josh Zodiac before. The reason I ask is I've heard
that name and I think I've heard you mentioned the
name before Josh Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, I've actually just recently come on to his UHS
podcast uh as an official co host. J He had
me on a guest a couple of times. But it's like, hey, listen,
you're really good. I like you the interaction that we have.
So it's like, I want to do a code something,
sure if you want, absolutely, so Okay, usually every Saturday
we do we do a show or he records and uh,
(03:09):
but no, it's it's only been for a few months now.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Oh cool, Okay, I may I may have heard of
him elsewhere then I might have U I might have
seen something of Eric, might even know him.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
No, that's very cool. That's very cool. And and and
then so when of the wheer the new episodes come out?
When should people look for him?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Is it two a week Sunday? It's it's just it's
just one a week. Usually they drop on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Okay, he is.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We're taking September off and then we're gonna ramp up
afterwards get ready for or after Survivor series, and then
we'll go ahead and jump back into it. But I
may I may do Survivor series on my end because
I know, I think, what that's two nights now again, the.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Survivor series two nights one night.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I figured, Yeah, I don't know. I think they're all
going to two nights. Crying out loud. That's what WW
is all about right now, is that they're all about
making money. And it's just really sad of how how
downtry it is with the new ESPN deal going on.
It's like, gee, whiz, guys. I mean, listen, you're already
you're you're already firing up and everything. How about giving
(04:15):
the fans a break?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Huh yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Uh, it's just crazy.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I am not buying ESPN. No, I am not buying it.
They can pound sand. I'm done, well, I already have.
I got I got Netflix to watch raw, I got
Peacock to watch PL's, I got you know, I gotta
go to empty different places to watch stuff to begin with.
I'm done. I'm not chasing them to ESPN can pound Sand.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, So I heard that if you already subscribe to ESPN.
Do your linear cable subscription. I think you're covered. Yeah,
have to go.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
No, I don't do cable.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
We got the we got the court a long time ago. Yeah,
we don't have cable. We got the cord a long
time ago. Ridiculous costs. It's so expensive for But now,
in terms of though, and this is a conversation that
I had with Eric on Tough Bumps, the easy workaround
is you just get a you know, you can get
a VPN for like six bucks a month and connect
to it because the pols will still be available internationally
(05:15):
on Netflix, just not in the US. So you just
get a you just get a VPN. Netflix doesn't know
where you're connecting from. You can have access to everything,
I mean really.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Or just or just or just contact me after the
show and I'll go ahead and give you information about
you know, adding you on to my family subscription on
YouTube TV.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Ooh, well, I I agree with what you were saying before,
and now it just went out of my head.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Oh about it being so expensive now to be a fan?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah right, it's really it really gives something back to
the fans, hih. I mean we spend enough money buying
emptying different subscriptions to watch humpting different things. And you know,
but I agree with you one hundred percent, and I
hate the direction they're going in. I don't like the
way they're treating talent, especially truth that.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, right, I think talent's being treated a lot better
than they were with Vince. To be honest with you,
there may be some one offs, yes, for for talent
that I think. I think Truth was brought back based
on fan pressure, which if you think about it, wouldn't
have not affected Vince one bit. But because the fans
(06:27):
are calling out for names, Triple H is listening to
the fans. So I think the talent is treated a
lot better nowadays.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Agree, well, maybe a little bit in that regard.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
But to drop somebody with no notice, no nothing, just ah,
yeah we've been with us for decades, but goodbye, see
it hour get out. That's the way that they've dropped people, uh,
you know, is awful. They don't have discussions with them.
They just wait till the end and then go, oh,
yeah you're gone. And people have been with them, people
their lives are invested. Yeah, that's how you treat people.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
For Jenny, they da've they've they've done massive cuts before
just to save my They've done that way before. The truth. Yeah,
it's just the fact of matter that truth is such
a such is so beloved. Yeah, he's such a he's
basically I guarantee you when he retires, he finally hangs
(07:23):
up his boots, I guarantee you, he's going to be
an ambasador.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Oh yeah, he'll always have some sort of a connection
to the company, I'm sure. Yeah, regardless, but not.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
The only one though that they just drop like that. Well, yeah,
I been around forever and it's just you're gone.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, I do think. I do think, though, with with
some people. I mean, if you reach a point where
you don't think you can, you know.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Then have a discussion with him. Be honest, don't be
like cross all the.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Well, the carry and cross thing seems like a unique situation.
Did you watch did you watch him? Excuse me, I'm
losing my voice, Charles.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Did you watch?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Jenny and I watched both the documentary The Killer Cross
Part two slash My Contract Just Ended or whatever it's called.
And we watched the Ariel Helwane interview where carrying a
cross to me comes across no pun intended really well,
and in the documentary, both he and Scarlett come across
really well, and it's it's easy to have a lot
(08:19):
of sympathy for them. Did you watch either of those
or both of those?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Unfortunately I can't say I have. Yeah, but here's my
take on Carrion's bro I'm gonna be honest with you,
and this is just what I see. Either Creative has
dropped the ball massively, yes, or Carrion just does not
get over with the fans at all. I mean he
number one. If you take a look at in ring work,
(08:45):
I can see why the guy only wrestles one time
a year. The guy is dangerous, you.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Think so that that match?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
That match is dammy Zaane. Literally I saw one or
two inches where he could be paralyzed. The Yeah, it was.
It was some scary stuff. Me, me and Joshua We're
talking about that match, and it's like, yeah, he is unsafe.
He is unsafe. It's it's not a good performance at all.
(09:17):
His character is lackluster at best. I loved it when
he was with AOP and had the Final Testament.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
The Testament, that was where he.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
That is where I think he should he needs to
be surrounded by talent, he cannot hold himself with his character.
He cannot. So either Creative is dropping the ball finding
nothing legitimate that he can do well, or he just
excuse my French sucks and he just needs to go.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, I would. I would definitely put it on Creative
because you know, just hearing the guy talk even and see,
I've always been impressed with him in in interviews, various
podcast interviews I've seen with him over the years and whatnot.
He's so articulate and so interesting. It's like, how do
you not find something to do with this guy? And
(10:14):
then in recent days when he did that that promo
that was like a worked shoot where you know, he
did he did that that promo after WrestleMania where he
was complaining about not being on the show and and
he threw down the microphone and said that's killer cross
and everything. And then people really got behind him after that,
and apparently his merchandise sales through WWE dot com spiked massively,
(10:37):
and his book, his new book that just came out,
Life is Fighting, is doing very well. So there's clearly
the fans want him, they want to get behind him.
I put it all on creative? How do you not
make money with this guy? And I've always felt that
like they they they did well with him in NXT
when Triple H was running NXT, but then you know,
they brought him up to the main roster. Vince was
(10:59):
still in charge, so immediately ruined him. They released him,
they brought him back, and then the it's like they
can't figure out what to do with them, and it's like,
how do you not find something for this guy to do?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You know, I don't know, not not every n XT
champion or or somebody that's rising up from NXT goes
to the main roster and succeeds. It's it's just not that.
And also there may be other works behind the scenes.
There could be some back back, uh, there could be
(11:30):
some drama going on backstage. There could be some obviously
creative differences, I'm sure backstage. But the thing is, though,
just just seeing what I've seen on camera, it's very bland.
It's it's it's not it's not entertaining for me at least.
(11:51):
I mean again, it sounds like you and Jenny Field differently,
but it's not entertaining for me, and and and I
find his wrestling style is very dangerous.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I will say I don't think his ring work. I've
never noticed the dangerous aspect of that, but I would
be curious, Like Jenny said, you know, maybe we'll go
back and watch that match. But I will say I've
never found his ringwork to be particularly spectacular. Like I
don't expect to hear this is awesome chant during a
Carrion cross match.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, but but again, it's it's it's it's far but
it's it's far from spectacularly. It's down it's downright bad.
It really is the the I don't know, because listen,
when you take a look and you're inside that ring,
you are dancing with your dance partner. I mean, yes,
it's kind of sad to say because they're wearing tight,
(12:42):
tight shorts and everything like that, and you know, it's
just you just think about that. It's just like, Okay,
you're dancing with a dude, all right, whatever, But they're
dancing your dance partner. Somebody has to lead, somebody has
to Communication is always a spot, Sammy Zaye, whether it
be with Jay Usso, whether it be with the Bloodline,
(13:04):
whether it be with Kevin Owens, Sammy Zane's beautiful. He's
he he twinkled toes around that ring like nobody ever. Sure, great,
I see carrying crussing and I'm almost ready to cry
because there is no twinkle toes. Something's off and it's
can't be Sammy because I've seen Sammy interact with other
(13:26):
wrestlers and he is just beautiful. It's great. It's artwork.
It's not art, it's it's just it's maybe it's not dangerous,
but it's just not good.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I do think they had a good match at SummerSlam.
I thought it was I thought it was very good.
I mean, I you know, I didn't have any complaints
about it, certainly.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
But I think the I think the drama and the interaction,
the interference with Scarlet with the bar, Yeah, I like that.
But there was a couple of bumps there where I
was like, please get up, sam please get up. Please
don't do the X, referee, don't do the X.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Uh, it's just it's there's there's some of the bumps
that I just tugged, like, I mean, okay, that didn't
look that didn't look good.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I do have to acknowledge. My favorite part of any
carrying cross match has always been the entrance. I think
the entrance is incredible. I think I think that I
think that's the whole thing is really good. But but
he also said.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
It is the best part of carrying cross is the entrance.
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
He did say during the uh the Ariel hill Wana
interview too that uh they so you said you didn't
watch it, correct, He said that, uh. He said that
it's it's really it's really good. But he said that
they they did make him an offer. It's not that
they didn't make him an offer. They did make him
an offer. But there were two things that there were
(14:49):
a problem. One is he wanted to know how they
arrived at that number. So I assume it was a
low number because he again, there's been a just recently,
there was a pretty big spike in his merchandise sales apparently,
so they wanted to know how they arrived at number.
At that number. He didn't say no, He just said,
you know, let's continue the conversation. And the other sticking
point was they did not offer her Scarlet anything. They
offered him a new deal. They did not offer Scarlet
(15:11):
a new deal. And he says that what they told
him was that they would sign him. Let's get your
deal locked in and then we'll we'll figure out Scarlet,
which I can understand him being very concerned about that
for two reasons. Number One, she's a huge part of
the act. You know, it's hard to imagine him without her.
But also I would be worried about Okay, so you
(15:34):
want to sign me, You want me to hurry up
and sign this deal and then we'll and then we'll
deal with Scarlet afterward. I'm worried that there's not going
to be a follow through there. Okay, I'm going to
sign this deal that you, for some reason, are in
such a hurry for me to go ahead and sign,
because you're telling me, if I don't sign it in
twenty four hours, you're rescinding the offer. No ongoing contract negotiations.
I either sign this or you resined, and then I'm
(15:57):
supposed to just trust you that then you're going to
talk to Scarlet or we're going to sit down and
negotiate something for Scarlett as well. That that is that
sounded pretty sketchy to me. So I don't blame him
for saying no.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, I agree with that, because listen, what does my
deal have to do with Scarlett. Scarlett has her own deal.
How about we get Scarlett on board first and then
talk to me. I think, honestly it's a way to
go ahead and break those two apart. Because number one,
Scarlet's not a wrestler. She has not wrestled. She is
a valet. I think she hasn't she has, Unfortunately, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
You know, I thought she had wrestled in the to.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
My recollection if she had a long time.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, probably been a long time. But I mean, I
know she takes bumps and everything. I thought she had
wrestled at one time. I'm looking it up now.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
She probably has trained before, yeah, definitely look it up. Yeah,
but she's probably trained before to go ahead and said bumps.
But she's primarily a valet. And I don't think WWE
is actually with them cracking down on salary and everything
like that. I don't think they're gonna go ahead and
pay a la which is weird. You're going ahead and
bumping up to ESPN for thirty dollars a month. You're
(17:10):
already telling people to pay for Netflix for raw and
you're cutting salary really okay, I mean, you know, I
don't get it.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah. I'm looking on Wikipedia.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
It looks like get Peacock for the ples.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, and Ross.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And they're also bumping up because they said when they
signed this deal with ESPN that their first ple e
was gonna be wrestle Mania next year. They're bumping it
up to something called Russell Polluta yep for in September.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yep, y she with.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I think their money. I think they're greedy as heck.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
They got that company's got so much money now then
Nicol and Diamond. The artists who are contracted, they don't
get healthcare. They gotta pay their own healthcare everything else. Right,
That's why I think people don't understand that sometimes too,
because they think they're employees, right, They're non employees. They're
they're independent contract Ye. They got to work around from
(18:13):
the government basically, and it stuck.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
They Yeah, they're I mean, obviously there's there's another wrestling
promotion out there. If you don't wake it a WWE
go over to the aw see what they can do.
You got full creative control. You have another con and
debt that's in charge. So you go from Tony to
Neck or Nick to Tony. I don't know, I forget
whose con is open? They're both cons.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Sorry I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
God, I can't go over to the AW there. You
know they you know they're they're thriving as well. I mean,
look how awesome they are. I mean, look, look, I
mean just just think about it. Chris Jericho went from
w w E to a w.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
POS back to WWE most likely.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I thought that, Come on, now Tody Rhodes goes ahead
and flicks off w w E when he goes to
AW Now it's back to WWE. Yeah, what's going on?
How come eight you can't keep their talent, talent that
they take from WWE. Well, it's not working out. Next thing,
you know, we're getting Dean Ambrose back, right, Is that
what's gonna happen next? Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I hope, so, I hope. So that was something that
Eric and I talked about too on Tough Bumps. So,
by the way, if you're just joining us, we have
Charles Richardson from the Charles Richardson Show on the line
with us, and and uh oh, and of course the
pot what's the name of the wrestling podcast? Is it
the Josh Zodiac Show?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yes, the Josh Zodiac Podcast, The Josh Sodiac podcast.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I want to make sure I get it right when
uh when when we did?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah? This past Sunday on the newest edition of Tough Bumps,
it was a history of a W and Eric and
I talked a lot about how the worst thing that
happened to ae W was And Eric and I disagree
on a lot of things, but on this I think
we agreed is that when when Vince ended up having
to permanently leave WWE because with Triple H in charge
(20:12):
of creative Because the whole reason that AW was so
successful in the beginning and to a large extent still
is I mean, doing thirty thousand people in a stadium
in Texas is pretty impressive. But the reason they were
so successful initially was because they were offering an alternative
to what had become very very stale, a very stale
product under Vince. I was saying to Eric, you know,
(20:34):
for years, I didn't even sit down. I wouldn't even
sit down and sit through an episode of Raw or SmackDown.
I would just go on YouTube and find find out
whatever happened, and just watch whatever clips looked interesting to me.
And that was it. So I never fully disengaged from
the product. But so you know, so AW was filling
that void and then of course Triple H, who I
(20:55):
wasn't surprised because I was watching NXT because when Triple
H was in charge of NX nix C was phenomenal.
And uh, you know, so when Triple H got to
take over full creative, on the full roster, on the
main roster, you know, that was all of a sudden
ae W. It's kind of like, don't really need it
after all now that WWE is running on all cylinders
(21:17):
again for the first time in a long time. But
that's but I do think that ae W is a
net positive for the business. I think that the wrestling
business always thrives when you have competitive forces within it.
The more promotions that are successful, the better, because a
high tide raises all ships, uh interests in wrestling. You know,
it's it's so strong right now. Even TNA, Jenny and
(21:39):
I were watching a little bit of Slammiversary, Uh they
were that was their biggest North American crowd for Slammiversary,
almost eight thousand people. I think their partnership with WWE
helps drive that. But I do think ae W holds
an important place in the market and I think there.
I think it's a net positive that they're around.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, it's it's definitely gonna being that positive for AW
no matter what, because it's an alternative. And when you
can go ahead and finally get your creative brains intact
and actually bump heads literally sometimes and you go ahead
and get Edge and Christian back together, that's gonna generate
some interest, like, hmm, how is this Rated R superstar
(22:21):
Adam Copeland gonna do with Christian Cage now that they're reunited?
M interesting storyline. It drove me interest in aew because
I want to see what these two are gonna go at. Right,
And that was the first time I heard of Spike
apparently with that bat just oh gruesome.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Anyway, I'm like, I'm like, you know what, let's see
what happens. Let's see where they go from here, because
they're taking a definite tag team, a formidable tag team,
hall of fame tag team, and bringing it to their forefront.
Now let's see how they do.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, I think, uh so, we don't. We don't
watch much a w uh. Basically, if there's a you know,
if they have a a big event or something, there's
a website Toki video dot com that posts, uh, the
individual matches from their pay per views, you know, usually
a week or two after they happen. But but yeah,
I think I think you know, are they not?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Are they not? Are they not streaming on Max? There
are there there pay per views? I know they're streaming
like Dynamite in Oh yeah Vision on Max Max.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, we have Max Max. We've we've actually watched one
of the shows on Max. We've never watched any of
their p l E s on Max. But I think
you're right. Yeah, with all the streaming services, it gets confusing.
It's hard to keep up with it all.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
I'm ready to dump them.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
But but part part of why.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
It's amazing, it's it's it's amazing, mat or yeah, cut
the everybody, cut the streaming. You're spending more now on
streaming than you did.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I'm actually not spending more on streaming than I was
paying the cable because it was ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
People are, Oh yeah, a lot of people are, though cable.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Cable is far from dead, that's for sure. Yeah. I Uh.
Part of why we were having that conversation on Tough
Bumps was Eric is Eric is much more negative on
a W than I am. Like I said, I think
I think uh. I think Cody Rhads his return to
w w E UH would not have been nearly as
(24:38):
important and as big a deal had it not been
for a e W, even CM Punk, you know, I mean,
it still would have been a big deal him returning
to w W E his surprise appearance at Survivor Series
UH when he returned, But again, had it had it
not been for his UH, had it not been for
ae W getting him back into the game first, I
(24:59):
don't think it would have meant as much. You know,
I think AW. I think AW has directly benefited WWE
in some ways. I really do.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I agree, and then I disagree because Cody Rhodes developed
himself in the Indies BEFOREAW even took place. That was
Eric reinventive, that the American Nightmare persona theme song and
everything was before AW. So he actually went ahead and
created himself before then he was able to make a
(25:31):
stage on AW. So I agreed to that point. I
agreed to that point that Cody went ahead and turned
some heads like, Wow, this guy can actually perform. You
don't have to put him in a goofy Gold out
and called Stardust that's great. See them Punk on the
other hand, see them Punk on the other hand, he
had to try another promotion because of his experience with WWE,
(25:54):
his negative experience with w W and at the time
he went to ABA events Stone Charge anyway, so why
would he go back to a toxic relationship with that,
right And of course if you haven't seen Unreal, we
watched you to know that. Yeah, it's it's that. That's
freaking great, it really is. But that right there not
(26:18):
even unreal, just just a hole behind the scenes of
how Sam Punk got back. It was the last minute deal.
This thing wasn't like Etched and Stone before a Survivor
series hit. Nobody knew except three people, and one of
them was AJ So he did he and he was
hidden behind everything. He got into Gorilla Formation and like wow,
seam Punk is here. Yep, Yeah, it's just he literally
(26:42):
signed that contract like ten minutes before. So there was
a coming to Jesus moment with Triple H saying listen,
we know we messed up. We know this happen, happened,
we know that happened. This is how it is now.
We know there's a lot of wrongs that have been
right and and this is this is what we can
offer you. And I think Sam Punk came back, but
(27:03):
I think he had to try another promotion to see
what exactly what it's like outside of w w E
before he came back, right right.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I also have a theory you know that you know
that show that CM Punk showed up at. This was
when he was on the outs with ae W. He
was still under contract, but he he was out with
his with his injury. Poor guy, He's had a lot
of injuries. But so he was he was away from
the promotion and and of course it was an ongoing
story that he was at odds with some of the
(27:36):
people there and like Jack Perry, and his relationship with
Tony Cohn was pretty strained. And then there was that
WWE show that he showed up at just to say
hi to some people backstage, and yep, and and Vince
Scott went and Vince got wind of it and kicked
him out. And and by the way, Vin Vince I
think was probably right to do that because Vince does
not want to be sued for contract hampering, you know,
(27:59):
because if he's aware of the situation, he knows, assuming
he was aware. He knew that cmpunk was still under
contract with AEW but having problems, So it's not necessarily
a great look that, you know, while still under contract
with AEW, cmpunk is just showing up at a show.
But that night, apparently before before Vince gave word that no,
you got to get him out of here. We can't
(28:21):
have him in the building. Kick him out, he did
have a brief interaction with Triple H. I just wonder
how that interaction went because I have this I have
a theory. It's just a theory, I you know, can't
base it on anything, but is it possible that part
of that introduction Apparently it was very very brief, just
kind of saying hello to each other. But I wonder
(28:42):
if Punk said something like, you know, to Triple H, hey,
you know, someday, when I'm not under contract somewhere else,
I might like to come back here, you know, just
kind of throwing that out there on Triple H may
have said something like, hey, you know, if you weren't
under contract, we'd love to have you back. Who knows
what the future know, just something, just a brief interaction
like that, and they'll know, and if that conversation did
(29:05):
take place, they'll never admit it. But I just know.
But I can't help but wonder if it did.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You know, I have my own theory and it's it's
it's definitely not wrestling related. So my theory is damn
punk works up the Triple H and it's like, hey,
how are you and Stephanie doing? Yeah, we're doing great,
and me, you're doing great. Won't get together and have
a foursome?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Really that's your theory? And yeah, so well, Charles, I mean,
you're definitely thinking outside the box because I can honestly
tell you with with all the sincerity, that never occurred
to me.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, So, uh, what do you want Jenny A w now?
Or do you only watch WWE?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It's it's mainly WWE. But you know, I kind of
keep tabs on stuff with ae W like I. You know,
I wouldn't have known about Edgen Christian. I knew they
were feuding with with with each other. I think, yeah,
there was one time Christian hug edge until you know
f oh yeah yeah and that's okay, wow, yeah, but
(30:25):
you know, no, I I kind of keep tabs like
you know, apparently they got something going now, which okay,
maybe I might tune in to see what's going on
if they're advertised, uh and and see what what's doing,
but I'm primarily w W.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, I'll watch any Will Osprey match. Uh and he
of course, you know an a W and you know,
a big fan of MJF. Haven't kept up, haven't kept
up with what they've been doing. But well, there's so much.
There's just so much content now, I mean, and WWE
is pumping out more content than ever.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Is m JF like part of the hurts in the
kit now with lash Lee in the MVP.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
From what I saw online, he was, but now he's out.
They kicked him out or something, so I don't know,
I haven't but that's you know, it's hard though. See
that's the other thing with AEW. And this is something
where I think Tony Kahn probably has something in common
with Vince McMahon that wanting to have full control over
creative to the point where you know nothing's being delegated
(31:25):
or if it is being well. Obviously in WW events
was delegating because he had a full writing team, but
then you know he'd end up tearing up the script
and rewriting it himself anyway, And I think that you
know what AEW needs, what Tony Kahn needs is somebody
or a team of people who can do what Triple
H has done. Recommit to long term, logical storytelling where
you can get really invested in these characters, because that's
(31:45):
the most important thing. That's what makes w WE, in
my opinion, so successful. Now. I've argued to Eric that
to me, wrestling is better than it's ever been because
there's more, there's more of a focus on long term storytelling,
the surprises, but everything is logical, but also character development.
I can't remember ever, and I've been watching since I
(32:06):
was a kid, I can't remember ever a time when
there was as much character development as we see now
and a willingness to make these characters complex and you
know they've got levels to them. That's why now you'll
see babyfaces fighting with other babyfaces that used to be
never a thing, but now you know you can have that,
or heels fighting with other heels because the audience has
been conditioned to accept these are complex characters and not
(32:29):
everything is black and white, and people who are you know,
good guys can actually fight with other good guys, and
bad guys can actually fight with other bad guys because
you know sometimes in real life that happens, right, So
I think, aw, if Tony Kahn would just allow somebody
who really has a good creative mind, who can do
(32:49):
what Triple H has done, come into AEW and recommit
to long term storytelling, I think they'd be a lot
more successful. And they're already pretty successful, let's be honest,
but I think they'd be a lot more successful.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Well, yeah, they still have a long way to go.
They're still in the baby's, the the infant stages, maybe
even the Toddless stages, but definitely, definitely. I do have
a couple of questions because I know we're running out
of time here, so I want to I have a
couple of questions. Number one, and please assume that I
have not heard this on Tough Bumps. Okay, but tell
(33:20):
me what was your reaction to Hogan's death.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
So we tried on Tough Bumps, we tried to present
kind of a measured, fair assessment. I mean, I can
tell you my personal reaction. When I saw the news
alert on my phone, I was kind of numb. It
was like, wow, you know, because on one hand, a
huge part of my childhood and obviously Hogan a huge
part of professional wrestling, something that I'm I'm passionate about.
(33:47):
So so it was like, wow, it's kind of stunning,
but it's also hard to get past because I don't
think he ever effectively dealt with it. You know, his
racist comments were recorded during that encounter with Bubba the
Love Sponges wife, which is still even weird to say,
but you know, the just objectively extraordinarily racist, shockingly racist
(34:13):
things that he said during that conversation that was recorded,
which yeah, he did the whole apology tour and everything,
but he never really dealt with the central His comments
were very specific, and he never dealt with specifically what
he was wrestling with no pun intended when expressing himself
during that conversation. He never dealt with that specifically, at
(34:38):
least not publicly, and a lot of people felt like
his apologies were half hearted and insufficient, and he never
fully recovered from that, obviously, so we tried to so
we tried to be very fair about it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Well, and to be honest with you, he was apparently
in his private life a very manipulative person because Brooke Hogan,
his daughter called in on Bubba and they haven't spoken
in years because of the fallout between Hogan and Bubba. Yeah,
and Brooke even said that, hey, my dad told me
(35:14):
about the tape and he knew you didn't have anything
to do with it. Even though Bubba lost his home,
he got fired, everything that laid down, Hogan never came
to his defense, even though he admitted to Brooke that, yeah,
I know Bubba had nothing to do with it, right, So,
just on that alone, I think he was not a
(35:36):
good human being. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Now.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Is that Is that justified to say, like, well, thank
god he's dead. No, of course not. I mean I
think the way he died, there's actually a criminal investigation
going on the that he may have been murdered.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Jenny and I were talking about that earlier. The medical
medical malpractice. Yeah yeah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, during a surgery.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
He had a surgery apparently recently, and there's question as
to whether or not his frontic nerve was damaged or
severed and restitched or something. And he also had a
fib so I guess the combo wasn't too good and
they think that might have actually been what caused his death,
in which case it would be a medical practice.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Okay, I don't know. There was a police investigation going on.
I think it's still going on.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's still it's still going on. It's still
going on. Yeah, could be wrongful death, who knows.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Another question, Matt, how do you feel of Sina's so
called heel turn versus face turn? It was that a
flop or is that you think it was successful?
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I so, I'm I'm I know, I'm very much in
the minority when I say this. I loved, first of all,
the heel turn itself was amazing, and I think most
people would agree on that. The actual heel turn itself
was fantastic. It was so so, so well done. The
subsequent him as a heel, the heel version of John Cena. Again,
(37:11):
I know, I'm in the minority. I was really enjoying it.
I understand why people didn't like that he I think
people a lot of people wanted him to be more
overtly evil and whatnot, where he actually underplayed it. But
I liked it. I thought it was cool. I thought
it was very intriguing. I really enjoyed it, and I
thought the face turn back seemed a little rushed. What
(37:32):
were you gonna saying? Oh, yeah, that was so funny. Yeah,
when he's like, I'm going to ruin wrestling.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I loved that too. I thought it was cool. I
really enjoyed heel John Cena, what did you think?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed his promos. But it
started to get a little repetitive, like he didn't have
anything new coming out. It just kept saying the same
thing over and over again.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
It's just that is true.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
It kind of got repetitive. So I think when Cody
finally because you're right, it did feel rushed a little bit.
But you saw bits and pieces of good Sena coming
out the past few weeks before that, and I think
I think they were trying to lead up to it,
but obviously they wanted to take the belt off him
and put on Cody. So, uh, mister Lesner can go
(38:22):
ahead a big introduction.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Yeah, what do you think about that one coming back?
Speaker 5 (38:30):
What do you think about Lesner coming back?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I love it, you love it?
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It was basically it was basically John's wish to go
ahead and wrestle Lesnar. That's why he's back. It's it
has nothing to do with well, he's gonna draw big
money and no, no, he'll he'll draw big money. But
that was a request from Sina. Sina wants to get
all of his his adversaries. Yes, it was reported Sena
(38:55):
requested Lesna. Yeah, so he wants to fight Lesnar one more. Yeah,
so this retirement tour is basically to get all If
you ever seen Rocky five, where it's like, listen, I
got to get the beast out of me. I can't
hold on. He's trying to get the beast out of
literally in this case, he's trying to get the beast.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, but yeah, he's good to take care of everybody
that he needs one more time.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense, which I
don't agree.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I don't. I don't agree with Logan Paul. Why would
he be on that list? I don't. I don't understand
that that storyline one bit.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, Charles, we are approaching the top of the hour,
so we got to begin to wrap up. The time
goes so quickly. But we should definitely do this more often,
my friend, because uh, I always enjoy having you on
and uh, you know, and anytime you want me to
be on your show, I'd love to do that as well.
But I do want to make sure, so where should
people go to find not only your show, but also
(39:51):
the show that you do with Josh Zodiac. I want
to make sure everyone knows where to go to find
your content.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So my show search the our Old's Richardson Show on
Facebook like my page. All my shows go live on
that on that page from eight to ten pm Monday Wednesday.
Hopefully both and any interaction or possible topics I may
be talking about will be listed there as well. I
(40:19):
used as my reference sheet YouTube same thing search search
the Charles Richardson Show. I have a channel with so
many subscribers, kidding, but so many subscribers that you can
go ahead and do it. It's free for now, but
after that it's gonna be twenty nine ninety five. I'm
launching my own app with competing against ESPN. The Josh
(40:41):
Zodiac Podcast. Same thing Josh Zodiac podcast on all social media.
He is available on podcast on the podcast on iHeartRadio,
Apple podcasts, anywhere podcasts are done. You can search that
that right there and boom, it pops.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Up fantastic, fantastic, Well, Charles, thank you so much, my friend.
Like I said, we must do this more often and
I really appreciate you, appreciate you joining us today, and
we'll talk again soon. I'm sure, Boss, we think we was.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
A kidden the Great.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
It's how we begin, magny father of the same
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Miss a little lands on the tough boss name
We take we are a kid, it's how we be
kidd ever thought of the things.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
On the Tough Boss name.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
So, what's the podcast that you're doing, tell us about it?
The wrestling podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
So the podcast is the podcast. It's called the Josh
Zodiac Podcast. Okay, it stars him his brother called the
Psycho Nerd. Don't even ask me and and myself. So,
and there's a there's another co host that he's that
he's brought on and she's pretty good too. She's very knowledgeable.
(00:52):
And when we were doing the the live pl e's
I do the live recording. He does the podcast. Okay,
So when we're there's a live p l E a
big one, I'm usually the one that does it through
my channel and he joins in with with everybody, and
you know, we cover the matches. Yeah, but but he
does it's like an hour. It's it's an hour podcast
(01:14):
and discuss various different topics, usually about Ross SmackDown and
what's going on with the next pl E or other
wrestling rumors like, yeah, we talked about Hogan, we talked
about carrying Cross and Scarlett not being re signed. We
talked about how bad they are. It's just it's just
completely uh all over the place wrestling. So it's like,
(01:38):
you know, we don't discuss because I know, tough Bumps,
you focus on one topic and you guys go on
it for for however long the show is maybe two.
Not well you talk about several topics.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Yeah, no, we actually do. We actually do several topics
on Tough Bumps. What we do is so we have
the main event. Every week, we pick a subject that
we're going to cover in depth, and then but we
also have the undercar and the undercard is usually two
or three subjects that were we cover kind of a
short we have briefer conversations about leading up to the
main event, so then the main event will be uh
(02:10):
whatever it is, like uh like this past weekend, the
main event was a W kind of the history of
ae W. So we kind of we kind of do
it that way. But I mean that's but that's another
great thing about podcasting too, is you know you can
do it anyway you want to. There's no there's no rules,
there's no format to follow. You know, you can it
can change, it can evolve, it can devolve, it can
(02:33):
you know however you want to however you want to
do it. I feel like you've have you worked with
Josh Zodiac before. The reason I ask is I've heard
that name and I think I've heard you mentioned the
name before Josh Zodiac.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
No, I've actually just recently come on to his UHS
podcast uh as an official co host. J He had
me on a guest a couple of times. But it's like, hey, listen,
you're really good. I like you the interaction that we have.
So it's like, I want to do a code something,
sure if you want, absolutely, so Okay, usually every Saturday
we do we do a show or he records and uh,
(03:09):
but no, it's it's only been for a few months now.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Oh cool, Okay, I may I may have heard of
him elsewhere then I might have U I might have
seen something of Eric, might even know him.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
No, that's very cool. That's very cool. And and and
then so when of the wheer the new episodes come out?
When should people look for him?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Is it two a week Sunday? It's it's just it's
just one a week. Usually they drop on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Okay, he is.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We're taking September off and then we're gonna ramp up
afterwards get ready for or after Survivor series, and then
we'll go ahead and jump back into it. But I
may I may do Survivor series on my end because
I know, I think, what that's two nights now again, the.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Survivor series two nights one night.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I figured, Yeah, I don't know. I think they're all
going to two nights. Crying out loud. That's what WW
is all about right now, is that they're all about
making money. And it's just really sad of how how
downtry it is with the new ESPN deal going on.
It's like, gee, whiz, guys. I mean, listen, you're already
you're you're already firing up and everything. How about giving
(04:15):
the fans a break?
Speaker 3 (04:16):
Huh yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Uh, it's just crazy.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I am not buying ESPN. No, I am not buying it.
They can pound sand. I'm done, well, I already have.
I got I got Netflix to watch raw, I got
Peacock to watch PL's, I got you know, I gotta
go to empty different places to watch stuff to begin with.
I'm done. I'm not chasing them to ESPN can pound Sand.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Well, So I heard that if you already subscribe to ESPN.
Do your linear cable subscription. I think you're covered. Yeah,
have to go.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
No, I don't do cable.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
We got the we got the court a long time ago. Yeah,
we don't have cable. We got the cord a long
time ago. Ridiculous costs. It's so expensive for But now,
in terms of though, and this is a conversation that
I had with Eric on Tough Bumps, the easy workaround
is you just get a you know, you can get
a VPN for like six bucks a month and connect
to it because the pols will still be available internationally
(05:15):
on Netflix, just not in the US. So you just
get a you just get a VPN. Netflix doesn't know
where you're connecting from. You can have access to everything,
I mean really.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Or just or just or just contact me after the
show and I'll go ahead and give you information about
you know, adding you on to my family subscription on
YouTube TV.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
Ooh, well, I I agree with what you were saying before,
and now it just went out of my head.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Oh about it being so expensive now to be a fan?
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah right, it's really it really gives something back to
the fans, hih. I mean we spend enough money buying
emptying different subscriptions to watch humpting different things. And you know,
but I agree with you one hundred percent, and I
hate the direction they're going in. I don't like the
way they're treating talent, especially truth that.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yeah, right, I think talent's being treated a lot better
than they were with Vince. To be honest with you,
there may be some one offs, yes, for for talent
that I think. I think Truth was brought back based
on fan pressure, which if you think about it, wouldn't
have not affected Vince one bit. But because the fans
(06:27):
are calling out for names, Triple H is listening to
the fans. So I think the talent is treated a
lot better nowadays.
Speaker 5 (06:35):
Agree, well, maybe a little bit in that regard.
Speaker 4 (06:38):
But to drop somebody with no notice, no nothing, just ah,
yeah we've been with us for decades, but goodbye, see
it hour get out. That's the way that they've dropped people, uh,
you know, is awful. They don't have discussions with them.
They just wait till the end and then go, oh,
yeah you're gone. And people have been with them, people
their lives are invested. Yeah, that's how you treat people.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
For Jenny, they da've they've they've done massive cuts before
just to save my They've done that way before. The truth. Yeah,
it's just the fact of matter that truth is such
a such is so beloved. Yeah, he's such a he's
basically I guarantee you when he retires, he finally hangs
(07:23):
up his boots, I guarantee you, he's going to be
an ambasador.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Oh yeah, he'll always have some sort of a connection
to the company, I'm sure. Yeah, regardless, but not.
Speaker 4 (07:32):
The only one though that they just drop like that. Well, yeah,
I been around forever and it's just you're gone.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Yeah, I do think. I do think, though, with with
some people. I mean, if you reach a point where
you don't think you can, you know.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Then have a discussion with him. Be honest, don't be
like cross all the.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
Well, the carry and cross thing seems like a unique situation.
Did you watch did you watch him? Excuse me, I'm
losing my voice, Charles.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Did you watch?
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Jenny and I watched both the documentary The Killer Cross
Part two slash My Contract Just Ended or whatever it's called.
And we watched the Ariel Helwane interview where carrying a
cross to me comes across no pun intended really well,
and in the documentary, both he and Scarlett come across
really well, and it's it's easy to have a lot
(08:19):
of sympathy for them. Did you watch either of those
or both of those?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Unfortunately I can't say I have. Yeah, but here's my
take on Carrion's bro I'm gonna be honest with you,
and this is just what I see. Either Creative has
dropped the ball massively, yes, or Carrion just does not
get over with the fans at all. I mean he
number one. If you take a look at in ring work,
(08:45):
I can see why the guy only wrestles one time
a year. The guy is dangerous, you.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Think so that that match?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
That match is dammy Zaane. Literally I saw one or
two inches where he could be paralyzed. The Yeah, it was.
It was some scary stuff. Me, me and Joshua We're
talking about that match, and it's like, yeah, he is unsafe.
He is unsafe. It's it's not a good performance at all.
(09:17):
His character is lackluster at best. I loved it when
he was with AOP and had the Final Testament.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
The Testament, that was where he.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
That is where I think he should he needs to
be surrounded by talent, he cannot hold himself with his character.
He cannot. So either Creative is dropping the ball finding
nothing legitimate that he can do well, or he just
excuse my French sucks and he just needs to go.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
Yeah, I would. I would definitely put it on Creative
because you know, just hearing the guy talk even and see,
I've always been impressed with him in in interviews, various
podcast interviews I've seen with him over the years and whatnot.
He's so articulate and so interesting. It's like, how do
you not find something to do with this guy? And
(10:14):
then in recent days when he did that that promo
that was like a worked shoot where you know, he
did he did that that promo after WrestleMania where he
was complaining about not being on the show and and
he threw down the microphone and said that's killer cross
and everything. And then people really got behind him after that,
and apparently his merchandise sales through WWE dot com spiked massively,
(10:37):
and his book, his new book that just came out,
Life is Fighting, is doing very well. So there's clearly
the fans want him, they want to get behind him.
I put it all on creative? How do you not
make money with this guy? And I've always felt that
like they they they did well with him in NXT
when Triple H was running NXT, but then you know,
they brought him up to the main roster. Vince was
(10:59):
still in charge, so immediately ruined him. They released him,
they brought him back, and then the it's like they
can't figure out what to do with them, and it's like,
how do you not find something for this guy to do?
Speaker 2 (11:08):
You know, I don't know, not not every n XT
champion or or somebody that's rising up from NXT goes
to the main roster and succeeds. It's it's just not that.
And also there may be other works behind the scenes.
There could be some back back, uh, there could be
(11:30):
some drama going on backstage. There could be some obviously
creative differences, I'm sure backstage. But the thing is, though,
just just seeing what I've seen on camera, it's very bland.
It's it's it's not it's not entertaining for me at least.
(11:51):
I mean again, it sounds like you and Jenny Field differently,
but it's not entertaining for me, and and and I
find his wrestling style is very dangerous.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
I will say I don't think his ring work. I've
never noticed the dangerous aspect of that, but I would
be curious, Like Jenny said, you know, maybe we'll go
back and watch that match. But I will say I've
never found his ringwork to be particularly spectacular. Like I
don't expect to hear this is awesome chant during a
Carrion cross match.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
No, but but again, it's it's it's it's far but
it's it's far from spectacularly. It's down it's downright bad.
It really is the the I don't know, because listen,
when you take a look and you're inside that ring,
you are dancing with your dance partner. I mean, yes,
it's kind of sad to say because they're wearing tight,
(12:42):
tight shorts and everything like that, and you know, it's
just you just think about that. It's just like, Okay,
you're dancing with a dude, all right, whatever, But they're
dancing your dance partner. Somebody has to lead, somebody has
to Communication is always a spot, Sammy Zaye, whether it
be with Jay Usso, whether it be with the Bloodline,
(13:04):
whether it be with Kevin Owens, Sammy Zane's beautiful. He's
he he twinkled toes around that ring like nobody ever. Sure, great,
I see carrying crussing and I'm almost ready to cry
because there is no twinkle toes. Something's off and it's
can't be Sammy because I've seen Sammy interact with other
(13:26):
wrestlers and he is just beautiful. It's great. It's artwork.
It's not art, it's it's just it's maybe it's not dangerous,
but it's just not good.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
I do think they had a good match at SummerSlam.
I thought it was I thought it was very good.
I mean, I you know, I didn't have any complaints
about it, certainly.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
But I think the I think the drama and the interaction,
the interference with Scarlet with the bar, Yeah, I like that.
But there was a couple of bumps there where I
was like, please get up, sam please get up. Please
don't do the X, referee, don't do the X.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Uh, it's just it's there's there's some of the bumps
that I just tugged, like, I mean, okay, that didn't
look that didn't look good.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I do have to acknowledge. My favorite part of any
carrying cross match has always been the entrance. I think
the entrance is incredible. I think I think that I
think that's the whole thing is really good. But but
he also said.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
It is the best part of carrying cross is the entrance.
You're absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
He did say during the uh the Ariel hill Wana
interview too that uh they so you said you didn't
watch it, correct, He said that, uh. He said that
it's it's really it's really good. But he said that
they they did make him an offer. It's not that
they didn't make him an offer. They did make him
an offer. But there were two things that there were
(14:49):
a problem. One is he wanted to know how they
arrived at that number. So I assume it was a
low number because he again, there's been a just recently,
there was a pretty big spike in his merchandise sales apparently,
so they wanted to know how they arrived at number.
At that number. He didn't say no, He just said,
you know, let's continue the conversation. And the other sticking
point was they did not offer her Scarlet anything. They
offered him a new deal. They did not offer Scarlet
(15:11):
a new deal. And he says that what they told
him was that they would sign him. Let's get your
deal locked in and then we'll we'll figure out Scarlet,
which I can understand him being very concerned about that
for two reasons. Number One, she's a huge part of
the act. You know, it's hard to imagine him without her.
But also I would be worried about Okay, so you
(15:34):
want to sign me, You want me to hurry up
and sign this deal and then we'll and then we'll
deal with Scarlet afterward. I'm worried that there's not going
to be a follow through there. Okay, I'm going to
sign this deal that you, for some reason, are in
such a hurry for me to go ahead and sign,
because you're telling me, if I don't sign it in
twenty four hours, you're rescinding the offer. No ongoing contract negotiations.
I either sign this or you resined, and then I'm
(15:57):
supposed to just trust you that then you're going to
talk to Scarlet or we're going to sit down and
negotiate something for Scarlett as well. That that is that
sounded pretty sketchy to me. So I don't blame him
for saying no.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, I agree with that, because listen, what does my
deal have to do with Scarlett. Scarlett has her own deal.
How about we get Scarlett on board first and then
talk to me. I think, honestly it's a way to
go ahead and break those two apart. Because number one,
Scarlet's not a wrestler. She has not wrestled. She is
a valet. I think she hasn't she has, Unfortunately, I think.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
You know, I thought she had wrestled in the to.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
My recollection if she had a long time.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Yeah, probably been a long time. But I mean, I
know she takes bumps and everything. I thought she had
wrestled at one time. I'm looking it up now.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
She probably has trained before, yeah, definitely look it up. Yeah,
but she's probably trained before to go ahead and said bumps.
But she's primarily a valet. And I don't think WWE
is actually with them cracking down on salary and everything
like that. I don't think they're gonna go ahead and
pay a la which is weird. You're going ahead and
bumping up to ESPN for thirty dollars a month. You're
(17:10):
already telling people to pay for Netflix for raw and
you're cutting salary really okay, I mean, you know, I
don't get it.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
Yeah. I'm looking on Wikipedia.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
It looks like get Peacock for the ples.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, and Ross.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
And they're also bumping up because they said when they
signed this deal with ESPN that their first ple e
was gonna be wrestle Mania next year. They're bumping it
up to something called Russell Polluta yep for in September.
Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yep, y she with.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I think their money. I think they're greedy as heck.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
They got that company's got so much money now then
Nicol and Diamond. The artists who are contracted, they don't
get healthcare. They gotta pay their own healthcare everything else. Right,
That's why I think people don't understand that sometimes too,
because they think they're employees, right, They're non employees. They're
they're independent contract Ye. They got to work around from
(18:13):
the government basically, and it stuck.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
They Yeah, they're I mean, obviously there's there's another wrestling
promotion out there. If you don't wake it a WWE
go over to the aw see what they can do.
You got full creative control. You have another con and
debt that's in charge. So you go from Tony to
Neck or Nick to Tony. I don't know, I forget
whose con is open? They're both cons.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Sorry I had to do it.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
God, I can't go over to the AW there. You
know they you know they're they're thriving as well. I mean,
look how awesome they are. I mean, look, look, I
mean just just think about it. Chris Jericho went from
w w E to a w.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
POS back to WWE most likely.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
I thought that, Come on, now Tody Rhodes goes ahead
and flicks off w w E when he goes to
AW Now it's back to WWE. Yeah, what's going on?
How come eight you can't keep their talent, talent that
they take from WWE. Well, it's not working out. Next thing,
you know, we're getting Dean Ambrose back, right, Is that
what's gonna happen next? Oh?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
I hope, so, I hope. So that was something that
Eric and I talked about too on Tough Bumps. So,
by the way, if you're just joining us, we have
Charles Richardson from the Charles Richardson Show on the line
with us, and and uh oh, and of course the
pot what's the name of the wrestling podcast? Is it
the Josh Zodiac Show?
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Yes, the Josh Zodiac Podcast, The Josh Sodiac podcast.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
I want to make sure I get it right when
uh when when we did?
Speaker 1 (19:49):
Uh?
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Yeah? This past Sunday on the newest edition of Tough Bumps,
it was a history of a W and Eric and
I talked a lot about how the worst thing that
happened to ae W was And Eric and I disagree
on a lot of things, but on this I think
we agreed is that when when Vince ended up having
to permanently leave WWE because with Triple H in charge
(20:12):
of creative Because the whole reason that AW was so
successful in the beginning and to a large extent still
is I mean, doing thirty thousand people in a stadium
in Texas is pretty impressive. But the reason they were
so successful initially was because they were offering an alternative
to what had become very very stale, a very stale
product under Vince. I was saying to Eric, you know,
(20:34):
for years, I didn't even sit down. I wouldn't even
sit down and sit through an episode of Raw or SmackDown.
I would just go on YouTube and find find out
whatever happened, and just watch whatever clips looked interesting to me.
And that was it. So I never fully disengaged from
the product. But so you know, so AW was filling
that void and then of course Triple H, who I
(20:55):
wasn't surprised because I was watching NXT because when Triple
H was in charge of NX nix C was phenomenal.
And uh, you know, so when Triple H got to
take over full creative, on the full roster, on the
main roster, you know, that was all of a sudden
ae W. It's kind of like, don't really need it
after all now that WWE is running on all cylinders
(21:17):
again for the first time in a long time. But
that's but I do think that ae W is a
net positive for the business. I think that the wrestling
business always thrives when you have competitive forces within it.
The more promotions that are successful, the better, because a
high tide raises all ships, uh interests in wrestling. You know,
it's it's so strong right now. Even TNA, Jenny and
(21:39):
I were watching a little bit of Slammiversary, Uh they
were that was their biggest North American crowd for Slammiversary,
almost eight thousand people. I think their partnership with WWE
helps drive that. But I do think ae W holds
an important place in the market and I think there.
I think it's a net positive that they're around.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, it's it's definitely gonna being that positive for AW
no matter what, because it's an alternative. And when you
can go ahead and finally get your creative brains intact
and actually bump heads literally sometimes and you go ahead
and get Edge and Christian back together, that's gonna generate
some interest, like, hmm, how is this Rated R superstar
(22:21):
Adam Copeland gonna do with Christian Cage now that they're reunited?
M interesting storyline. It drove me interest in aew because
I want to see what these two are gonna go at. Right,
And that was the first time I heard of Spike
apparently with that bat just oh gruesome.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Anyway, I'm like, I'm like, you know what, let's see
what happens. Let's see where they go from here, because
they're taking a definite tag team, a formidable tag team,
hall of fame tag team, and bringing it to their forefront.
Now let's see how they do.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah, I think, uh so, we don't. We don't
watch much a w uh. Basically, if there's a you know,
if they have a a big event or something, there's
a website Toki video dot com that posts, uh, the
individual matches from their pay per views, you know, usually
a week or two after they happen. But but yeah,
I think I think you know, are they not?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Are they not? Are they not streaming on Max? There
are there there pay per views? I know they're streaming
like Dynamite in Oh yeah Vision on Max Max.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, we have Max Max. We've we've actually watched one
of the shows on Max. We've never watched any of
their p l E s on Max. But I think
you're right. Yeah, with all the streaming services, it gets confusing.
It's hard to keep up with it all.
Speaker 5 (23:44):
I'm ready to dump them.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
But but part part of why.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
It's amazing, it's it's it's amazing, mat or yeah, cut
the everybody, cut the streaming. You're spending more now on
streaming than you did.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I'm not.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
I'm actually not spending more on streaming than I was
paying the cable because it was ridiculously expensive.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
People are, Oh yeah, a lot of people are, though cable.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Cable is far from dead, that's for sure. Yeah. I Uh.
Part of why we were having that conversation on Tough
Bumps was Eric is Eric is much more negative on
a W than I am. Like I said, I think
I think uh. I think Cody Rhads his return to
w w E UH would not have been nearly as
(24:38):
important and as big a deal had it not been
for a e W, even CM Punk, you know, I mean,
it still would have been a big deal him returning
to w W E his surprise appearance at Survivor Series
UH when he returned, But again, had it had it
not been for his UH, had it not been for
ae W getting him back into the game first, I
(24:59):
don't think it would have meant as much. You know,
I think AW. I think AW has directly benefited WWE
in some ways. I really do.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
I agree, and then I disagree because Cody Rhodes developed
himself in the Indies BEFOREAW even took place. That was
Eric reinventive, that the American Nightmare persona theme song and
everything was before AW. So he actually went ahead and
created himself before then he was able to make a
(25:31):
stage on AW. So I agreed to that point. I
agreed to that point that Cody went ahead and turned
some heads like, Wow, this guy can actually perform. You
don't have to put him in a goofy Gold out
and called Stardust that's great. See them Punk on the
other hand, see them Punk on the other hand, he
had to try another promotion because of his experience with WWE,
(25:54):
his negative experience with w W and at the time
he went to ABA events Stone Charge anyway, so why
would he go back to a toxic relationship with that,
right And of course if you haven't seen Unreal, we
watched you to know that. Yeah, it's it's that. That's
freaking great, it really is. But that right there not
(26:18):
even unreal, just just a hole behind the scenes of
how Sam Punk got back. It was the last minute deal.
This thing wasn't like Etched and Stone before a Survivor
series hit. Nobody knew except three people, and one of
them was AJ So he did he and he was
hidden behind everything. He got into Gorilla Formation and like wow,
seam Punk is here. Yep, Yeah, it's just he literally
(26:42):
signed that contract like ten minutes before. So there was
a coming to Jesus moment with Triple H saying listen,
we know we messed up. We know this happen, happened,
we know that happened. This is how it is now.
We know there's a lot of wrongs that have been
right and and this is this is what we can
offer you. And I think Sam Punk came back, but
(27:03):
I think he had to try another promotion to see
what exactly what it's like outside of w w E
before he came back, right right.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
I also have a theory you know that you know
that show that CM Punk showed up at. This was
when he was on the outs with ae W. He
was still under contract, but he he was out with
his with his injury. Poor guy, He's had a lot
of injuries. But so he was he was away from
the promotion and and of course it was an ongoing
story that he was at odds with some of the
(27:36):
people there and like Jack Perry, and his relationship with
Tony Cohn was pretty strained. And then there was that
WWE show that he showed up at just to say
hi to some people backstage, and yep, and and Vince
Scott went and Vince got wind of it and kicked
him out. And and by the way, Vin Vince I
think was probably right to do that because Vince does
not want to be sued for contract hampering, you know,
(27:59):
because if he's aware of the situation, he knows, assuming
he was aware. He knew that cmpunk was still under
contract with AEW but having problems, So it's not necessarily
a great look that, you know, while still under contract
with AEW, cmpunk is just showing up at a show.
But that night, apparently before before Vince gave word that no,
you got to get him out of here. We can't
(28:21):
have him in the building. Kick him out, he did
have a brief interaction with Triple H. I just wonder
how that interaction went because I have this I have
a theory. It's just a theory, I you know, can't
base it on anything, but is it possible that part
of that introduction Apparently it was very very brief, just
kind of saying hello to each other. But I wonder
(28:42):
if Punk said something like, you know, to Triple H, hey,
you know, someday, when I'm not under contract somewhere else,
I might like to come back here, you know, just
kind of throwing that out there on Triple H may
have said something like, hey, you know, if you weren't
under contract, we'd love to have you back. Who knows
what the future know, just something, just a brief interaction
like that, and they'll know, and if that conversation did
(29:05):
take place, they'll never admit it. But I just know.
But I can't help but wonder if it did.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
You know, I have my own theory and it's it's
it's definitely not wrestling related. So my theory is damn
punk works up the Triple H and it's like, hey,
how are you and Stephanie doing? Yeah, we're doing great,
and me, you're doing great. Won't get together and have
a foursome?
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Really that's your theory? And yeah, so well, Charles, I mean,
you're definitely thinking outside the box because I can honestly
tell you with with all the sincerity, that never occurred
to me.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Yeah, So, uh, what do you want Jenny A w now?
Or do you only watch WWE?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
It's it's mainly WWE. But you know, I kind of
keep tabs on stuff with ae W like I. You know,
I wouldn't have known about Edgen Christian. I knew they
were feuding with with with each other. I think, yeah,
there was one time Christian hug edge until you know
f oh yeah yeah and that's okay, wow, yeah, but
(30:25):
you know, no, I I kind of keep tabs like
you know, apparently they got something going now, which okay,
maybe I might tune in to see what's going on
if they're advertised, uh and and see what what's doing,
but I'm primarily w W.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, I'll watch any Will Osprey match. Uh and he
of course, you know an a W and you know,
a big fan of MJF. Haven't kept up, haven't kept
up with what they've been doing. But well, there's so much.
There's just so much content now, I mean, and WWE
is pumping out more content than ever.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
Is m JF like part of the hurts in the
kit now with lash Lee in the MVP.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
From what I saw online, he was, but now he's out.
They kicked him out or something, so I don't know,
I haven't but that's you know, it's hard though. See
that's the other thing with AEW. And this is something
where I think Tony Kahn probably has something in common
with Vince McMahon that wanting to have full control over
creative to the point where you know nothing's being delegated
(31:25):
or if it is being well. Obviously in WW events
was delegating because he had a full writing team, but
then you know he'd end up tearing up the script
and rewriting it himself anyway, And I think that you
know what AEW needs, what Tony Kahn needs is somebody
or a team of people who can do what Triple
H has done. Recommit to long term, logical storytelling where
you can get really invested in these characters, because that's
(31:45):
the most important thing. That's what makes w WE, in
my opinion, so successful. Now. I've argued to Eric that
to me, wrestling is better than it's ever been because
there's more, there's more of a focus on long term storytelling,
the surprises, but everything is logical, but also character development.
I can't remember ever, and I've been watching since I
(32:06):
was a kid, I can't remember ever a time when
there was as much character development as we see now
and a willingness to make these characters complex and you
know they've got levels to them. That's why now you'll
see babyfaces fighting with other babyfaces that used to be
never a thing, but now you know you can have that,
or heels fighting with other heels because the audience has
been conditioned to accept these are complex characters and not
(32:29):
everything is black and white, and people who are you know,
good guys can actually fight with other good guys, and
bad guys can actually fight with other bad guys because
you know sometimes in real life that happens, right, So
I think, aw, if Tony Kahn would just allow somebody
who really has a good creative mind, who can do
(32:49):
what Triple H has done, come into AEW and recommit
to long term storytelling, I think they'd be a lot
more successful. And they're already pretty successful, let's be honest,
but I think they'd be a lot more successful.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Well, yeah, they still have a long way to go.
They're still in the baby's, the the infant stages, maybe
even the Toddless stages, but definitely, definitely. I do have
a couple of questions because I know we're running out
of time here, so I want to I have a
couple of questions. Number one, and please assume that I
have not heard this on Tough Bumps. Okay, but tell
(33:20):
me what was your reaction to Hogan's death.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
So we tried on Tough Bumps, we tried to present
kind of a measured, fair assessment. I mean, I can
tell you my personal reaction. When I saw the news
alert on my phone, I was kind of numb. It
was like, wow, you know, because on one hand, a
huge part of my childhood and obviously Hogan a huge
part of professional wrestling, something that I'm I'm passionate about.
(33:47):
So so it was like, wow, it's kind of stunning,
but it's also hard to get past because I don't
think he ever effectively dealt with it. You know, his
racist comments were recorded during that encounter with Bubba the
Love Sponges wife, which is still even weird to say,
but you know, the just objectively extraordinarily racist, shockingly racist
(34:13):
things that he said during that conversation that was recorded,
which yeah, he did the whole apology tour and everything,
but he never really dealt with the central His comments
were very specific, and he never dealt with specifically what
he was wrestling with no pun intended when expressing himself
during that conversation. He never dealt with that specifically, at
(34:38):
least not publicly, and a lot of people felt like
his apologies were half hearted and insufficient, and he never
fully recovered from that, obviously, so we tried to so
we tried to be very fair about it.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Well, and to be honest with you, he was apparently
in his private life a very manipulative person because Brooke Hogan,
his daughter called in on Bubba and they haven't spoken
in years because of the fallout between Hogan and Bubba. Yeah,
and Brooke even said that, hey, my dad told me
(35:14):
about the tape and he knew you didn't have anything
to do with it. Even though Bubba lost his home,
he got fired, everything that laid down, Hogan never came
to his defense, even though he admitted to Brooke that, yeah,
I know Bubba had nothing to do with it, right, So,
just on that alone, I think he was not a
(35:36):
good human being. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
Now.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Is that Is that justified to say, like, well, thank
god he's dead. No, of course not. I mean I
think the way he died, there's actually a criminal investigation
going on the that he may have been murdered.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Jenny and I were talking about that earlier. The medical
medical malpractice. Yeah yeah, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, during a surgery.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
He had a surgery apparently recently, and there's question as
to whether or not his frontic nerve was damaged or
severed and restitched or something. And he also had a
fib so I guess the combo wasn't too good and
they think that might have actually been what caused his death,
in which case it would be a medical practice.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
Okay, I don't know. There was a police investigation going on.
I think it's still going on.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
Yeah, yeah, it's still it's still going on. It's still
going on. Yeah, could be wrongful death, who knows.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Another question, Matt, how do you feel of Sina's so
called heel turn versus face turn? It was that a
flop or is that you think it was successful?
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I so, I'm I'm I know, I'm very much in
the minority when I say this. I loved, first of all,
the heel turn itself was amazing, and I think most
people would agree on that. The actual heel turn itself
was fantastic. It was so so, so well done. The
subsequent him as a heel, the heel version of John Cena. Again,
(37:11):
I know, I'm in the minority. I was really enjoying it.
I understand why people didn't like that he I think
people a lot of people wanted him to be more
overtly evil and whatnot, where he actually underplayed it. But
I liked it. I thought it was cool. I thought
it was very intriguing. I really enjoyed it, and I
thought the face turn back seemed a little rushed. What
(37:32):
were you gonna saying? Oh, yeah, that was so funny. Yeah,
when he's like, I'm going to ruin wrestling.
Speaker 5 (37:38):
I loved that.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
I loved that too. I thought it was cool. I
really enjoyed heel John Cena, what did you think?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
I enjoyed it. I really enjoyed his promos. But it
started to get a little repetitive, like he didn't have
anything new coming out. It just kept saying the same
thing over and over again.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
It's just that is true.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
It kind of got repetitive. So I think when Cody
finally because you're right, it did feel rushed a little bit.
But you saw bits and pieces of good Sena coming
out the past few weeks before that, and I think
I think they were trying to lead up to it,
but obviously they wanted to take the belt off him
and put on Cody. So, uh, mister Lesner can go
(38:22):
ahead a big introduction.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Yeah, what do you think about that one coming back?
Speaker 5 (38:30):
What do you think about Lesner coming back?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I love it, you love it?
Speaker 3 (38:34):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It was basically it was basically John's wish to go
ahead and wrestle Lesnar. That's why he's back. It's it
has nothing to do with well, he's gonna draw big
money and no, no, he'll he'll draw big money. But
that was a request from Sina. Sina wants to get
all of his his adversaries. Yes, it was reported Sena
(38:55):
requested Lesna. Yeah, so he wants to fight Lesnar one more. Yeah,
so this retirement tour is basically to get all If
you ever seen Rocky five, where it's like, listen, I
got to get the beast out of me. I can't
hold on. He's trying to get the beast out of
literally in this case, he's trying to get the beast.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, but yeah, he's good to take care of everybody
that he needs one more time.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, no, that makes sense, which I
don't agree.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
I don't. I don't agree with Logan Paul. Why would
he be on that list? I don't. I don't understand
that that storyline one bit.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Yeah, Charles, we are approaching the top of the hour,
so we got to begin to wrap up. The time
goes so quickly. But we should definitely do this more often,
my friend, because uh, I always enjoy having you on
and uh, you know, and anytime you want me to
be on your show, I'd love to do that as well.
But I do want to make sure, so where should
people go to find not only your show, but also
(39:51):
the show that you do with Josh Zodiac. I want
to make sure everyone knows where to go to find
your content.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
So my show search the our Old's Richardson Show on
Facebook like my page. All my shows go live on
that on that page from eight to ten pm Monday Wednesday.
Hopefully both and any interaction or possible topics I may
be talking about will be listed there as well. I
(40:19):
used as my reference sheet YouTube same thing search search
the Charles Richardson Show. I have a channel with so
many subscribers, kidding, but so many subscribers that you can
go ahead and do it. It's free for now, but
after that it's gonna be twenty nine ninety five. I'm
launching my own app with competing against ESPN. The Josh
(40:41):
Zodiac Podcast. Same thing Josh Zodiac podcast on all social media.
He is available on podcast on the podcast on iHeartRadio,
Apple podcasts, anywhere podcasts are done. You can search that
that right there and boom, it pops.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Up fantastic, fantastic, Well, Charles, thank you so much, my friend.
Like I said, we must do this more often and
I really appreciate you, appreciate you joining us today, and
we'll talk again soon. I'm sure, Boss, we think we was.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
A kidden the Great.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
It's how we begin, magny father of the same
Speaker 2 (41:31):
Miss a little lands on the tough boss name
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