Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, So does that mean you did not watch.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A ten minute answer to a two minute question. No,
I did not. I read the highlights.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh, okay, it was very good. It was very good.
But the thing I've always said about Carry and Cross,
I remember saying this you once, is any kind of
interview I've ever seen him in like he just comes
across no pun intended, really well, Like he's very intelligent
and well spoken, very articulate, and just seems like a
(00:35):
really good guy and so and he comes across that
way too in the interview with Ariohlajuane. Now, did you
watch the documentary that's on YouTube? Killer Part two slash
My Contract ended today? Did you watch that? I did not.
Also very good. I recommend it.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I It's on my list.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Okay, and I watched it. We really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
The thing that, man, I'm torn on this again because
it's a tough thing to say. My understanding is the
crux at all of this, the breakdown, if you will,
if you will, is that they offer Carrion Cross but
(01:30):
not Scarlet.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, she's a key part of the act.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And look, I get why he rejected that she is
a key part of the act. They are married in
real life. That is his wife and I people have
told me about Scarlet and she is as beautiful as
(01:58):
she is. She's a nicer person like you can't like
like Jiz. She's a doll and just so nice, so giving.
Even when she was on the indies, like for there
are promotions that she's done free shots for yeah, while
(02:20):
she was with TNA.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
That doesn't surprise me because she comes across very well
in the in the documentary, you know, obviously it focuses
more on Carrying Cross, But in the documentary she comes
across as a really nice They both do. They come
across as both really nice, genuine believe.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Carrying Cross's book has just been released as well.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yes, and number one on the sports listing of the
New York Times Online or something or Amazon or something
apparently doing very well, doing very well.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Now in life is Fighting by Kevin Robert Keiser, superstar
Carrion Cross.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I haven't. And apparently the book ends with because
this book was a long time in the making, it
actually ends with him coming back his previous return to
WWE in twenty twenty two. I think, yes, yeah, and
that's where the book ends.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It is called life is fighting. Yeah, so yeah, he
And look, Carrion Cross is a guy that he did
it the hard way. He came up through the indies.
He you know, he didn't go I mean he went
through NXT, but he didn't have.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
An in right.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I mean he did a couple of Ring of Honor
shows because WWE has traditionally poached Ring of honor. If
you don't believe me, uh Thrallins cmpunk Yeah, Sammy's ay
lots yeah, Kevin Owens, you know Cody Rhoades. I mean,
(04:11):
you don't have the American Nightmare if it isn't for
Cody Rhads's Ring of Honor NJPW run because then you
don't have the subject of this week's episode aewright. The
point is is that Cross, I think Cross by WWE
management was always viewed as an outsider, not as someone
(04:34):
that that they groomed or they created. And the problem
with WWE is they have I think they're backstage people
in the guys at the top have a heavy sense
of tribalism, whether they intend to or not, that if
we did not create you, you're gonna have a tougher road
(04:57):
unless you just blow us away. And I think that
that's what happened to Cross. The fans got behind him
after that promo. My understanding is Hunter was not happy
with the promo.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, that's covered in the Uh yeah, he talks about
that in the aerial Hillwane interview that you know he
because he actually the way he explains it, and I
think they touch on this in the documentary too, the
way he explains it is after the promo, because that
was all planned with writers, just Hunter wasn't in on it.
So after the promo he told everybody, he said, Okay,
by the way, let's just make sure everybody internally and
(05:40):
the company knows that that was a work. And then
I'm not really upset and that I love being here,
and you know, let's make sure everyone knows that because
he was concerned. And then it turned out he found
out later that Triple H in fact was not aware
and that he was bothered by it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well yeah, and that's not on Cross. No, that's but
he's going to take the heat for it. And if
if that's a part of Scarlet not getting a deal,
shame on Hunter. Shame on Hunter, because Hunter, I remember
a time where you were a part of a work
(06:21):
it wasn't a work, but you were a part of
something that was seen as detrimental to the business. And
because you were the only guy that could be punished
for it, Yeah, you were right because the curtain call.
You're not gonna punish Kevin Ash, You're not gonna punish
Scott Hall. They're op the door. Yeah, you could find
(06:41):
them take money out of their last payout. I suppose
Sean's the champion who you gonna punish, right, And he
had to his own words, eat shit and like it. Yep,
And he lost winning the ninety six King of the
(07:03):
Ring that went to Stone called Steve Austin. He won
it a year later in ninety seven. But it just
his career was set back by that because he was
on the fast track. He had he was an intercontinental champion,
he had had mister perfect as his manager. I mean
(07:27):
it was up up of the up for hunter Hurst
Helmsley before that happened. And so that just reeks of
hypocrisy if you're if you're gonna sit there and try
to punish Cross for something like that when you have
(07:49):
long carried this chip on your shoulder for you having
to ticked the brunt of the curtain call then what
that hell?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Men, Yeah, it's just all very strange because, uh, you know,
in the waning in the waning days of Cross, this contract,
you know his uh you know, the book comes out
and and you know he's doing these book signings. There's
a lot of that in the documentary. And I guess
his merch numbers went way way up, and people were
(08:21):
you know, people wanted to see more Carry and Cross
and you know, and and apparently they did offer him
a deal, but like you said, they didn't offer it
to Scarlet, and Cross was questioning the money and you know,
how did you get to this number? Let's continue this
dialogue and he explains in the Ariel Hillwane in an
interview that he was offered, you know, he was offered
a deal, a new deal did not include Scarlet, and
(08:43):
when he asked, well, how did we arrive at this number?
I'd like to see some analytics, because you know, he knows,
you know, his is he's selling a lot of merch.
He was told he had to accept the offer within
twenty four hours or it would be rescinded. He wanted
to continue the conversation, and twenty four hours pass and
(09:03):
the offer was rescinded and that was it.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well. And also here's the other thing is he was
he didn't have direct conversation with butter Right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It was a go between, Yeah, a rep that was
appointed by the company to handle the negotiation.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
And what he said in regards to your merch, I'm
looking at Pro Wrestling teas right now. Two of the
top three sellers of the week. Number one is Carrying
is Killer Cross's new shirt good Soldier. Number three is
Scarlett Bordeaux's hexapl T shirt good good.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I'm glad to see that. I'm glad to hear that
that's good for them.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And what's in between assigned limited edition deathmatch print drawn
by Rob Schomberg, signed by Mick Foley.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Okay, so in the end, I mean, they're they're gonna
be fine, Like I wouldn't be surprised if they land
in AE W Right or something.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well a w hasn't called.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well, that came up too during the interview with Ariel Hallani.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think a lot of people, a lot of organizations
think it's a work exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And that's what that's what carry and Cross said.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yep, I mean, and the and this is the drawback
when creative wants to work the sheets constantly. They did
it with the Seth injury. They've done it many times.
They did it with CM Punk's return. When you do that,
you can hurt your talent, and that's what's happening with Cross. Also,
(10:45):
he's asking for an astronomical appearance fee.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah apparently, Yeah, that can that can be dangerous.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, I mean, look, if they're there is and let's
keep in mind that TNA Wrestling probably is off the
table because of their partnership with WWE. That more that
more we hear may not be a partnership. They may
be a secondary developmental because WWE is doing some really
(11:20):
underhanded stuff with TNA. In regards to our subject this week,
ae w So TNA might not be an option for him.
I think it. I mean I think for him. I
would love to see him in New Japan. I think
(11:43):
him in New Japan would be amazing. He goes and
works shows, and I guarantee you he would get an
AEW deal.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely also too, you know, the hopefully
whatever happens for him, you know, I think we're we're
all rooting for him, and I hope, I hope good
things happened quickly because the other the other factor in this,
and you know, this isn't as much of a factor
as it would have been at one time, certainly. But
he is forty, so it's not like he's a young
(12:15):
guy who you know who you know. He's not a
twenty five year old dude who you know had his
big break and it didn't work out. So now he's
got to go hit the indies for a while and
then he'll eventually get back to WWE. We don't know,
you know, at his age. I mean, he's an incredible shape.
I'm sure he's got another decade in him, but but
we don't know. So I hope whatever does happen for him,
(12:37):
not only do I hope it's positive, but I hope
it's relatively quick.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I you know, just one of the genuine good guys.
And Scarlett, as I said, genuine good women are good
persons in this business.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Uh yeah, look yeah, I I I felt the writing
was on the wall with the way, with the way the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Summer Slam match went.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, because let's.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Be real, Sam, he's aying won in a quasi squash.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
People keep calling it a squash. I don't I don't
think it was quite a squash.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I don't know, I said, quasi quasi, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
It wasn't necessarily endearing, but you weren't.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
But but you weren't gonna have a It wasn't gonna
be a five star Meltzer match either. Because one thing
about carry and cross I will say, you know again,
I say this gently because I like him very much.
His ringwork isn't great, Like I can't imagine him going
like you don't hear this is awesome chant during a
carry and cross match.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
He's okay, he isn't gonna give you a forty minute
clinic with Rospray, right, Yeah, wrestling needs those guys, right absolutely,
And he what he does, what he can do, he
does very well.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But I mean, I I agree he's he's really he's
a throwback big man. Yeah where And I think that's
also a detriment to him with w w E because
w w E is going more towards this traditional workstot
(14:22):
this this shoe Japan style in some cases, and that
comes with the guys that they brought in again, Rollin's
Zane Punk that came up through Ring of Honor in
the NDIS and that's what you work. You work snug,
you work tight. You want it to look like a shoe.
(14:45):
Yeah yeah, so I think crap. I. I hope the
best for him. I'm very shocked Tony Kahan has not
made the call because I think you know, there is
so many opportunities there. Oh, definitely a in AEW for him.
(15:06):
One you mentioned being forty reduced schedule for AEW.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
True.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, I mean even if you just had him on
Ring of Honor for a while and built him up,
that could work. There are so many things you can
do with a guy like carrying cross and a girl
like Scarlett, those two you can absolutely, absolutely
All right, So does that mean you did not watch.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A ten minute answer to a two minute question. No,
I did not. I read the highlights.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Oh, okay, it was very good. It was very good.
But the thing I've always said about Carry and Cross,
I remember saying this you once, is any kind of
interview I've ever seen him in like he just comes
across no pun intended, really well, Like he's very intelligent
and well spoken, very articulate, and just seems like a
(00:35):
really good guy and so and he comes across that
way too in the interview with Ariohlajuane. Now, did you
watch the documentary that's on YouTube? Killer Part two slash
My Contract ended today? Did you watch that? I did not.
Also very good. I recommend it.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I It's on my list.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Okay, and I watched it. We really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
The thing that, man, I'm torn on this again because
it's a tough thing to say. My understanding is the
crux at all of this, the breakdown, if you will,
if you will, is that they offer Carrion Cross but
(01:30):
not Scarlet.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, she's a key part of the act.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And look, I get why he rejected that she is
a key part of the act. They are married in
real life. That is his wife and I people have
told me about Scarlet and she is as beautiful as
(01:58):
she is. She's a nicer person like you can't like
like Jiz. She's a doll and just so nice, so giving.
Even when she was on the indies, like for there
are promotions that she's done free shots for yeah, while
(02:20):
she was with TNA.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
That doesn't surprise me because she comes across very well
in the in the documentary, you know, obviously it focuses
more on Carrying Cross, But in the documentary she comes
across as a really nice They both do. They come
across as both really nice, genuine believe.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
Carrying Cross's book has just been released as well.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yes, and number one on the sports listing of the
New York Times Online or something or Amazon or something
apparently doing very well, doing very well.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Now in life is Fighting by Kevin Robert Keiser, superstar
Carrion Cross.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, I haven't. And apparently the book ends with because
this book was a long time in the making, it
actually ends with him coming back his previous return to
WWE in twenty twenty two. I think, yes, yeah, and
that's where the book ends.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
It is called life is fighting. Yeah, so yeah, he
And look, Carrion Cross is a guy that he did
it the hard way. He came up through the indies.
He you know, he didn't go I mean he went
through NXT, but he didn't have.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
An in right.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
I mean he did a couple of Ring of Honor
shows because WWE has traditionally poached Ring of honor. If
you don't believe me, uh Thrallins cmpunk Yeah, Sammy's ay
lots yeah, Kevin Owens, you know Cody Rhoades. I mean,
(04:11):
you don't have the American Nightmare if it isn't for
Cody Rhads's Ring of Honor NJPW run because then you
don't have the subject of this week's episode aewright. The
point is is that Cross, I think Cross by WWE
management was always viewed as an outsider, not as someone
(04:34):
that that they groomed or they created. And the problem
with WWE is they have I think they're backstage people
in the guys at the top have a heavy sense
of tribalism, whether they intend to or not, that if
we did not create you, you're gonna have a tougher road
(04:57):
unless you just blow us away. And I think that
that's what happened to Cross. The fans got behind him
after that promo. My understanding is Hunter was not happy
with the promo.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, that's covered in the Uh yeah, he talks about
that in the aerial Hillwane interview that you know he
because he actually the way he explains it, and I
think they touch on this in the documentary too, the
way he explains it is after the promo, because that
was all planned with writers, just Hunter wasn't in on it.
So after the promo he told everybody, he said, Okay,
by the way, let's just make sure everybody internally and
(05:40):
the company knows that that was a work. And then
I'm not really upset and that I love being here,
and you know, let's make sure everyone knows that because
he was concerned. And then it turned out he found
out later that Triple H in fact was not aware
and that he was bothered by it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Well yeah, and that's not on Cross. No, that's but
he's going to take the heat for it. And if
if that's a part of Scarlet not getting a deal,
shame on Hunter. Shame on Hunter, because Hunter, I remember
a time where you were a part of a work
(06:21):
it wasn't a work, but you were a part of
something that was seen as detrimental to the business. And
because you were the only guy that could be punished
for it, Yeah, you were right because the curtain call.
You're not gonna punish Kevin Ash, You're not gonna punish
Scott Hall. They're op the door. Yeah, you could find
(06:41):
them take money out of their last payout. I suppose
Sean's the champion who you gonna punish, right, And he
had to his own words, eat shit and like it. Yep,
And he lost winning the ninety six King of the
(07:03):
Ring that went to Stone called Steve Austin. He won
it a year later in ninety seven. But it just
his career was set back by that because he was
on the fast track. He had he was an intercontinental champion,
he had had mister perfect as his manager. I mean
(07:27):
it was up up of the up for hunter Hurst
Helmsley before that happened. And so that just reeks of
hypocrisy if you're if you're gonna sit there and try
to punish Cross for something like that when you have
(07:49):
long carried this chip on your shoulder for you having
to ticked the brunt of the curtain call then what
that hell?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Men, Yeah, it's just all very strange because, uh, you know,
in the waning in the waning days of Cross, this contract,
you know his uh you know, the book comes out
and and you know he's doing these book signings. There's
a lot of that in the documentary. And I guess
his merch numbers went way way up, and people were
(08:21):
you know, people wanted to see more Carry and Cross
and you know, and and apparently they did offer him
a deal, but like you said, they didn't offer it
to Scarlet, and Cross was questioning the money and you know,
how did you get to this number? Let's continue this
dialogue and he explains in the Ariel Hillwane in an
interview that he was offered, you know, he was offered
a deal, a new deal did not include Scarlet, and
(08:43):
when he asked, well, how did we arrive at this number?
I'd like to see some analytics, because you know, he knows,
you know, his is he's selling a lot of merch.
He was told he had to accept the offer within
twenty four hours or it would be rescinded. He wanted
to continue the conversation, and twenty four hours pass and
(09:03):
the offer was rescinded and that was it.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Well. And also here's the other thing is he was
he didn't have direct conversation with butter Right.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
It was a go between, Yeah, a rep that was
appointed by the company to handle the negotiation.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
And what he said in regards to your merch, I'm
looking at Pro Wrestling teas right now. Two of the
top three sellers of the week. Number one is Carrying
is Killer Cross's new shirt good Soldier. Number three is
Scarlett Bordeaux's hexapl T shirt good good.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I'm glad to see that. I'm glad to hear that
that's good for them.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
And what's in between assigned limited edition deathmatch print drawn
by Rob Schomberg, signed by Mick Foley.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Okay, so in the end, I mean, they're they're gonna
be fine, Like I wouldn't be surprised if they land
in AE W Right or something.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Well a w hasn't called.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Well, that came up too during the interview with Ariel Hallani.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think a lot of people, a lot of organizations
think it's a work exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
And that's what that's what carry and Cross said.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yep, I mean, and the and this is the drawback
when creative wants to work the sheets constantly. They did
it with the Seth injury. They've done it many times.
They did it with CM Punk's return. When you do that,
you can hurt your talent, and that's what's happening with Cross. Also,
(10:45):
he's asking for an astronomical appearance fee.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah apparently, Yeah, that can that can be dangerous.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Yeah, I mean, look, if they're there is and let's
keep in mind that TNA Wrestling probably is off the
table because of their partnership with WWE. That more that
more we hear may not be a partnership. They may
be a secondary developmental because WWE is doing some really
(11:20):
underhanded stuff with TNA. In regards to our subject this week,
ae w So TNA might not be an option for him.
I think it. I mean I think for him. I
would love to see him in New Japan. I think
(11:43):
him in New Japan would be amazing. He goes and
works shows, and I guarantee you he would get an
AEW deal.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely also too, you know, the hopefully
whatever happens for him, you know, I think we're we're
all rooting for him, and I hope, I hope good
things happened quickly because the other the other factor in this,
and you know, this isn't as much of a factor
as it would have been at one time, certainly. But
he is forty, so it's not like he's a young
(12:15):
guy who you know who you know. He's not a
twenty five year old dude who you know had his
big break and it didn't work out. So now he's
got to go hit the indies for a while and
then he'll eventually get back to WWE. We don't know,
you know, at his age. I mean, he's an incredible shape.
I'm sure he's got another decade in him, but but
we don't know. So I hope whatever does happen for him,
(12:37):
not only do I hope it's positive, but I hope
it's relatively quick.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, I you know, just one of the genuine good guys.
And Scarlett, as I said, genuine good women are good
persons in this business.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Uh yeah, look yeah, I I I felt the writing
was on the wall with the way, with the way the.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Summer Slam match went.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, because let's.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Be real, Sam, he's aying won in a quasi squash.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
People keep calling it a squash. I don't I don't
think it was quite a squash.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
I don't know, I said, quasi quasi, Yeah, yeah, it wasn't.
It wasn't necessarily endearing, but you weren't.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
But but you weren't gonna have a It wasn't gonna
be a five star Meltzer match either. Because one thing
about carry and cross I will say, you know again,
I say this gently because I like him very much.
His ringwork isn't great, Like I can't imagine him going
like you don't hear this is awesome chant during a
carry and cross match.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
He's okay, he isn't gonna give you a forty minute
clinic with Rospray, right, Yeah, wrestling needs those guys, right absolutely,
And he what he does, what he can do, he
does very well.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Right.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But I mean, I I agree he's he's really he's
a throwback big man. Yeah where And I think that's
also a detriment to him with w w E because
w w E is going more towards this traditional workstot
(14:22):
this this shoe Japan style in some cases, and that
comes with the guys that they brought in again, Rollin's
Zane Punk that came up through Ring of Honor in
the NDIS and that's what you work. You work snug,
you work tight. You want it to look like a shoe.
(14:45):
Yeah yeah, so I think crap. I. I hope the
best for him. I'm very shocked Tony Kahan has not
made the call because I think you know, there is
so many opportunities there. Oh, definitely a in AEW for him.
(15:06):
One you mentioned being forty reduced schedule for AEW.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
True.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, I mean even if you just had him on
Ring of Honor for a while and built him up,
that could work. There are so many things you can
do with a guy like carrying cross and a girl
like Scarlett, those two you can absolutely, absolutely
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.