The trouble with AEW

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The main event. Our discussion about uh a e W.
And we we've talked about a W before. What was
it that we were talking about before with a W
CM punk? Oh that's right, right, and it's also come
up because of our Cody Rhodes conversation. But uh yeah,

(00:21):
there it is.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
I had such high hopes for a W.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, I mean, they seem to have rebounded, uh somewhat.
Their ratings I think have been creeping back up, you know,
and they just did, I mean to do All In
in Texas that was pretty successful, so they they do
have some some uh you know, they've had some some
good days, some good some good numbers. I mean that
the show that they did in Wembley. Of course, it

(00:47):
was ill fated in some ways because of CM punk,
But I think A well, yeah, they'll fuck it up.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Don't worry give them time.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
I think I think a W is a net pose
of because, uh, you know, it gives these wrestlers more
like we were just talking about carry and cross potentially
ending up there. You know, it gives wrestlers more places
to work. It's competition.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
One of the worst things that happened to a W
is Vince McMahon's sex scandal.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, ogreed, Yes, because what happened is a w.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Was promoting themselves. Is this monumental shift in pro wrestling?

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yea, yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:39):
And then Vince McMahon's sex scandal hit yep. And what
ended up happening is you now have guys in charge
that are tuned into the fans and listen to the
fans and give a damn what the fans think and that,

(02:01):
and then it comes down when you have two products
that are the same, what it like really close. Now,
what it comes down to is business acumen, execution and

(02:24):
and just overall ability to put yourself above the competitor.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
And AE W is Wiley Coyote and WWE is the roadrunner.
WWE from a business standpoint, is always one step ahead
of Tony Kahan.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Oh yeah, well I would say more than one step.
I mean AW is a goliath, you know, and and
Tony Kahn is a you know, AW is a challenger
brand as we as we say, but no.

Speaker 2 (03:01):
What I'm saying is Tony Kahn just hasn't figured out
how to take on WWE like it. Look what he
does is WWE does counterprogramming to his major events. With
Saturday Night's main event, and okay, Tony, Saturday Night's main

(03:25):
event is locked in to a specific timeslot. You could
go to the venue and be like, hey, how about
we start an hour earlier. They can't do that because
Saturday Night's main event is on network television. Right you

(03:49):
can with enough notice, that would be one way. Or
you can sit there and say, Okay, what we're gonna
do is we are going to give you the first
hour of our event for free.

Speaker 1 (04:07):
So my thought about all that is, yeah, you can
do all that, but I think the single best thing
that Tony Kahan could have should have been doing all
along is not worry so much about competing with WWE
and not getting into the strategies of trying to compete

(04:29):
and all that goes with that, but instead just find
somebody who can book your shows like the way Triple
H books WWE. Because if the product is strong, if
the product is strong and people are invested, then that
that gets you got to worry about the other shit

(04:51):
a hell of a lot less if you're putting on
consistent compelling television week after week.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Talk about consistent compelling television and having backstage people he
rejected Brett Hart for a producer role.

Speaker 1 (05:04):
Yeah. Yeah, well that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Jake rejected Jake to Snake Roberts in a producer role.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
I love the Yeah. No, yes, you can depend on Jake.
Now maybe I don't know, two of.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
The greatest minds for this business. Yeah, and you're like,
h no, we'd want you as an on screen manager.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
No, that is the dumbest damn thing I have ever heard?
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 (05:37):
But yeah, but you know when because, like you said,
when when Vince was suddenly out, Because when Vince was
in charge of creative obviously, I mean I you know,
I told you I went years without even sitting through
a full episode of Rawer SmackDown. I didn't even want
to bother with it anymore. I was so bored with it,
you know. So then Vince goes and Triple H is in,

(05:58):
and I knew. I knew right then what was going
to happen because I had been watching NXT. Because when
Triple H was running an NXC and I first started
watching NXC, I was like, oh, holy shit, this is
what it should be, long term logical storytelling with fully
developed characters. Oh my god, here's wrestling I can actually enjoy.
And that's what AEW was supposed to be. And I

(06:20):
think it kind of was in the beginning. But but
then once once Vince was out and Triple H was
taking over created on the big shows, I was like, uh,
this is yeah, you're right, I agree with you. That
is the worst thing that could have happened to ae
w And and Tony Kahan. He should have found somebody
who could get in there and really or a team
of people, because I guess he this might be something

(06:43):
he and Vince have in common. In fact, is it
sounds like Tony Kahn wants to be in control of
everything and and he's like, you know, but he's got
a lot to do, you know, not only AEW, but
he's got the Jacksonville Jaguars whatever else. You know, he
needs not delegate some of the creative right.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
And the pump breaks. He doesn't have the Jaguars. He
is a corporate analyst for the Jaguars. His father has
the Jacksonville Jagons.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
No, I know, but I don't mean he literally owns
the team or anything. But I just mean, but that's
one of his.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Responsibilities that's abundantly close.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Sure s yeah, yeah, but uh but but he's got
a lot on his plate at the point being, and
yet he seems to want to be in control of creative,
just like Vince always wanted to be in control creative.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
I'm going to disagree with you to an extent, Okay,
Tony Khan is a mark. Tony Khan is a fanboy.
Tony Khan is what happens when you give a spastic
kid WWE two K twenty six and say but and

(08:00):
give them the power to book his pro wrestling organization.
That's what Tony Khan is and that's what Tony Kahan
is always gonna be. Now, now, people, I've seen people
compare Tony Khan to Paul Hayman. Really the difference is
if you gave Tony Khan Paul Hayman's mind and gave

(08:24):
Paul Hayman Tony Kahan's money, ECW would have won the
Monday Night Wars sure, without a doubt, hands down. E
c W. I can't say they would have won, but
but WWE would not have bought them for pennies on

(08:44):
the dollar. They would not have gotten the Dudley Boys,
they would not have gotten Taz, they would not Mike
Awsin wouldn't have left an ECW rob bing, damn wouldn't
making sporadic appearances because he's owed money.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Right.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
So you there are many, many, many, many many things
that you can sit here and pulling to YAW struggles,
and believe me, we're gonna touch on some of them.
The biggest reason AW struggles is you cannot run an

(09:27):
organization as a fan. You have to run it as
a businessman, and you have to have an understanding of
how the business of professional wrestling works, not just how
how I think it should work, No, how you think

(09:48):
it should work. Is it doesn't make it successful? You Yeah, Tony.
Tony is a glorified fanboy. So that's the problem with
aw In. Every hot idea he thinks he has, I

(10:13):
would say seventy percent of the time blows up in
his face.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Some things have some things have worked out well, I
think probably not many. I don't watch it enough to
I don't watch AW enough to know for sure. But
Christian Cage has been a success in my view. I
like the whole patriarchy, how much of it?

Speaker 2 (10:39):
How much of that is Christian Cage though? Right, Like
we have heard from so many people talking about aw
how the wrestlers basically booked themselves.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, justin. Michaels, by the way in the chat says
not to knock to backtrack, but he's he's a pretty
loyal follower of the show, so I do want to
read this. He says, Kevin Killercross and the Smoke Show
should go back to TNA Wrestling and be like he
was on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Replace TNA wrestling with our subject for today, ae W.
And that's a very good point. TNA wrestling isn't going
to work for him because of the WWE partnership. Yeah,
I don't think. I mean, if that were an option,
WWE would have done it. Yeah, Like that would make

(11:34):
no sense. That wouldn't make sense to me. I would
love to see him in TNA. I think that's what
WWE should have done, because in TNA he's a star. Yeah,
and I mean in WWE he's a He's a big
fish with a lot of bigger fishes, so he gets

(11:56):
lost in the shuffle because you can only serve so
many masters.

Speaker 1 (12:03):
I think, uh, now, obviously we've been critical of of
ae W. I also think though WWE, I don't know
that they necessarily need to go out of uh, go
out of their way to you know, because they're they're
they do a lot of they try to counter program.

(12:24):
And we'll talk about the TNA that the thing that
they're doing with TNA. Speaking of TNA in a minute.
But I think that it might make sense more sense
for WWE to be Look, they don't have to worry
about a w being a threat to their business. But
I do think that having a W present. First of all,
a high tide raises all ships. I think, and we've

(12:45):
talked about that before, how in wrestling you need to
have competitive forces. Everybody does better when there's competitive forces involved.
I also think WWE should maybe just kind of let
you know, unofficially. Obviously they're never gonna I don't think
they're ever gonna have a direct working relationship with AEW,
but kind of let aewb a little bit of an

(13:07):
unofficial sort of developmental territory. Right Because WWE is so
far ahead on a business level, they don't have to
worry about AEW. But yeah, so let somebody, you know,
if they if WWE releases somebody and they go to Awa,
and maybe they go to Awa and they they build
themselves up and you know, and then when their contract
is up there you grab them right back, you know,

(13:30):
you know, just let you know who cares if if
people go to AEW. Because if you remember when AEW
first launched WWE, they kind of went into this panic
mode in the very beginning. You remember this when they
were trying to lock down all these contracts and these
five year deals with everybody, even people they ended up
not even using. It was kind of weird. It was
even NXC. They like tried to sign like everybody just

(13:53):
so AW couldn't get them. And I thought that was
a mistake at the time. And you know, let these
people get over in AW. So what and then you
just grab them and offer them a better deal when
they become available.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
Well, but here there's a problem with that one. I
agree with you. But the problem with that logic is
that AEW's media rights deal warn't a brother Discovery isn't
going to just lot AW kind of do that. They're

(14:27):
going to want stars with the amount of money they're paying. Yeah,
so they're not going to want Oh, let's let's let them,

(14:49):
let's let them go, Let's let them, let's let them
do this. Let's no, they're going to want to lock
top talent.

Speaker 1 (14:57):
In which is the the talent, because that's where the
big money deals come from. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
But I also think a drawback to AW is their
EVPs and you cannot you cannot have a say in
overall booking as an active talent. You cannot because you're

(15:28):
ser greed will come into play.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
Well, it's a conflict of interest.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Yeah, you're going to get your buddies over, You're gonna
get yourself over and screw everyone else, right, Yeah, of course,
and that I think has what that's something that really
has hurt a W. While the Bucks, Cody and Kenny

(15:56):
didn't necessarily put themselves over it, it happened organically within AEW.
There are guys that did get pushes that you can
argue shouldn't have and not a detriment of others. MJF notably.

(16:18):
That's the other thing is AW misuses a lot of
the talent they have. MJF should be your top guy,
oh absolutely, And people are like, well he is, No.
MJF should be the guy that every pay per view

(16:39):
or p l E or whatever the hell you want
to call him is either the co main event or
the main event.

Speaker 1 (16:46):
I agree, with you.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
That guy is a generational talent in this business, and
the way he has been booked is dog shit, dog shit.

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I think at times that's been good from what I've seen,
but at other times it is not, and it's like,
what are they doing? They're just wasting him?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, like it's a ship I want. When he was
up to leave ae W, I I was torn on
it because I'm like, there was a lot of meat
that was like, go, oh.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
I bet he feels that way, now go at this point.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
But then there was some of me that I was like,
if he goes, what's that dude A w mm hmmm,
that could be a death blow because you have Darby
Allen who takes time off to clown climb fucking mountains. Well,

(17:51):
I mean aging, aging guys that are holding back people
like Chris Jerrick. Know. I don't want to see fifty
year plus year old Chris Jericho wearing a banana hammock
on air every week.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah. Well the other thing too, is because you mentioned
time off, So the other weird thing that has gone on.
And I don't know why Tony Kahan does this, but
he he puts people on the bench and continues to
pay them but doesn't use them.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
They're guaranteed contracts. No, they have no down they have
no downside guarantee in ae W.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
So because their merch is not controlled by aw.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Right, it's pro wrestling tease. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:44):
Yeah, so that's another business flaw. Well yeah, I mean
people point and say, well, WWE, their merchandise is done
by Fanatics. Okay, who are you going to trust to
give you in depth numbers pro wrestling t's or a

(19:06):
global titan in the sports apparel business Fanatics.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
Well not only that, but if you go so just
as an example, and this demonstrates what you're saying, if
you go to WWE dot com to buy something, you're
buying it from WWE dot com.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
If you go to no not anymore, you have to
go to when you click shop, it takes you to
WWE Shop, which when you go to WWE Shop, it
says on the webpage of Fanatics Experience.

Speaker 1 (19:40):
Oh, I didn't know that. I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
It is one. Fanatics is good for WWE because all
they have to do is design the apparel right, and
Fanatics handles the rest. Ae W has on demand printing,
and that's the other thing you go to an AEW show,

(20:06):
the merch there is just so minimal because they're using
on demand print shop for their apparel, right, And it's like, well,
you want to you you have this program on TNT,

(20:27):
you're on primetime network cable, but you're having a mom
and pop joint run your merchandise.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, that's very strange to me.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Like, I get it. Pro wrestling teas, you know, one
of the probably one of the seeds that led to
AW with the popularity of the Bullet Club. Sure, bullet
Club gets over like Rover back up the Prinks truck
print money, but yeah, I get it. But at the
end of the day that a mom and pop joint

(21:00):
is only going to hold you back in that essence
when you when people go to a live show, they
go to see their favorite wrestlers live, but secondary to
that they go to buy merchandise.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
It's a yeah, it's exactly like the concert business that way.
It's you're the same thing. Without merch you're dead in
the water. You have to have merch.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah, and like they have like Austin went to uh
their Saturday night show, they had it here in said
Rapids Iowa Collision. Yes, thank you, and he said that
they had like I think he said, ten different T shirts.

(21:44):
That's it, that is it? Wow? And like we look
like they didn't even have a Swerve Strickland shirt. Wow
again one of your top guys. What are you doing
with him right now?

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:03):
Oh, he's in a storyline with the EVPs. Oh okay,
EVPs want to be, want want to be, want to
be in the mix, So work with Swerve mm hmm okay,

(22:24):
I mean in one of their buddies. Is the world
champ right now? Hang Me and Adam Page a guy
that he's good in the ring, Yes, but does does
anyone look at hang Me and Adam Page and say bye, God,
that's the guy.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
I think is uh? I think his promos are a
little weak, at least the last time. The last I saw.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
His promos are just the same regurgitated crap. Yeah, he's
gonna crazy cowboy. I mean it's it's a syndrome with
a lot of wrestlers these days, where they get to
the top and they just coast and Hang Me and
Adam Page has been coasting for years in aw yeah

(23:14):
you because it used to be hang Me and Adam
Page would wow you in the ring. Oh yeah, yeah,
and now it's just like, okay, wow, Hangman's wrestling. Okay,
I've seen this match fifty times already. Yeah, it's kind
of bad that Logan Paul does the Buckshot lariat better
than Adam Page does.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Now, well, Logan Paul does a lot of things better
than almost anybody. It's pretty amazing. But yeah, I don't
uh but yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
That's my point is there are so many moments in
booking where people act like you just did. Oh yeah,
I don't know. So booking pro wrestling is not hard.
Listen to the fans. Put the guys that are top

(24:11):
guys at the top, wash Rent, repeate, print money. That's
the pro wrestling business. Tony Kahn in his dipshit EVPs
the Young Bucks, Matt and Nick Jackson have somehow desecrated

(24:32):
this idea to the point where it's like rocket science,
where it's a dissertation on war and peace to get
your masters m and it's not.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
Well yeah, I mean I don't know. I don't know,
and I don't I don't watch aw consistently anyway, so
I don't know. I mean, they've got a lot of
very talented people there. I'll tell you. I mean will Osprey,
My god, I'll watch any will Osprey match. Sweve Strickland
you mentioned is incredible. What's up they do? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (25:10):
The problem is is that you you don't have wrestling
minds or enough of them to be like Tony uspastic
little bastard. Listen, this is not working. Yeah, oh well
our ratings in our cliques and Tony. The fans don't

(25:35):
give a shit about that.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Long term storytelling is the key.

Speaker 2 (25:40):
They don't care. They want to see the top guys
at the top. They want to see Swerve Strickland versus
mjf Right. They want to see have we ever seen that?

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Have they ever been on the other?

Speaker 2 (25:57):
No?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
What's or why?

Speaker 2 (26:01):
But not a long term feud, you know, the whole
long term storytelling thing.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Because I'd like to see that. Yeah, I mean that's
the thing. I mean that I think is really the key,
I really do.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
And don't give your if you're going to have guys
at the top or near the top, don't give them
three months off to go climb a fucking mountain. Yeah,
what the fuck could you even fathom? Not just Vincent
Kennedy McMahon, but Paul Triple H Lovac giving talent time

(26:33):
off to go climb Mount Everest.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
No, not really, I I you you want to see
how Triple H would respond to that.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
Go watch how he treated the tough enough kids back
in two thousand.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
I remember that.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
Yeah, what about Sean go to Shawn Michaels and be like,
heyk Sean, I know you're putting me near the top
of this NXT card. I really appreciate it, but by GOB,
I want to climb a fucking mountain.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah, so we should talk about because we referred to
it a couple of times. We should talk about WWE
once because they have this partnership with TNA, which I like.
I think it's a good thing for everybody. And again,
to me, it's a matter of a high tide raises
all ships. I think it's TNA is doing actually much
better these days. They seem to really have their shit together,

(27:33):
and so I like the whole thing. I think it's
good for everybody. But WWE they want to and I
don't know if there's an update on this, and I
don't know if anyone has said this publicly or if
this is all conjecture, but they want to get TNA
into a situation where they're in primetime cable directly competing
with AW and use TNA to hurt AW, which again

(27:56):
I think is I don't think they should be trying
to hurt AW. I think they should leave them alone,
let them be an unofficial developmental. But that's that's just
my opinion. But I think this is an interesting dynamic
what's happening right now.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
I think the pro it isn't It isn't the It
comes down to fighting for talent m That's what all
this boils down to, and trying. I mean, WWE has
been trying to hurt AW from day from the very beginning.

(28:31):
They're just doing things. The things they did before were covert,
like the WWEID where there would be wrestling schools and
independent promotions tied to WWE.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
I forgot all about that. I forgot all about that
that was even a thing.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Because that's where AEW was getting a lot of their talent. Yes,
the indy scene. Now you have that in their major
indie promotions. So with that, sorry, I had to cough
with that. You with that, you're taking away some of

(29:08):
the breeding grounds, so to speak, for AW. Right now,
you're saying, okay, we're not going to put our programming
against you. We're going to try to get TNA against you,
which is more of an equal playing ground. Because now
what you're doing is I'm I said this earlier. You're
forcing the fans to vote on a to choose on

(29:31):
an even playing field. Yeah, because the ew IS is
more even with TNA than they are far away from WWE.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
Right, So.

Speaker 2 (29:44):
I think the talent, if you's correctly in with ae
W would win out. Yeah, and yeah, I think that
that's really really the key thing. I think MJF swre
Strickland will ospray if they can never get him healthy

(30:09):
and back working Jye. Same with Adam Cole. I think
those guys, you know, you need to be your pillars.
And I I mean, and this the their women's division
is the drizzling shits. Let's be honest. No one wants

(30:33):
to see Mercedes Monet with twelve belts. No. I I mean, one,
you're diminishing independent wrestling by doing that. But that one
woman that was that walked out on WWE could come
into and just take over independent women's wrestling, right. Uh,

(30:57):
it's almost as bad as uh TNA. If they try
to book Tessa Blanchard at the top of the knockouts division. You, yeah,
I don't like it. I think, you know, there are
better women. I think they missed the boat on Britt Baker.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know what happened there.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
They missed the boat on so many women. Uh Taamelo,
uh on down the line. Uh the Bunnie just great
women's athletes that they just didn't know how to book
because they didn't have the women's wrestling mind.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
See Scoops by the way as a story that uh.
There may even be a possibility of WWE buying t NA.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
I mean, I think it's if they do. I think
if I'm a i'm I need to reevaluate how I'm
doing things right because that isn't gonna work.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Yeah. Mmm, I'll be interesting to see what happens there,
because whatever happens there is going to happen soon, I think,
mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
I think TNA's deal is up in about six months
or less.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yeah, m all right, I don't know. So what do
you What do you think is a long term prognosis
for ae W.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Well, their media rights deal is saving them right now. Yeah,
I mean, they have a very good media rights deal.
And Eric Bischoff has alluded to that if you have
a good media rights deal, you can serve Right now,
do they do they survive past this media righte steal?

(33:12):
That's the larger question, and they can. They have the talent,
They just got to get the wrestling minds in there
to kind of just be like Tony sign the checks,
make big business decisions, but you cannot be creative because

(33:34):
you can't separate Tony the businessman from Tony the fan.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
I really think turning that, I think, I really think
doing that would turn everything around for them. I really do.
There's so much potential there, so much talent, so much
great talent, as you mentioned, that should be at the top.
And listen, you know, being able to do those big
crowds like in Texas at all in that's not nothing,
that's that's not the sign of a dying promotion.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
So the people people want to see this, well, yeah,
I want to.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
See them succeed.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah. They want to see it in the right conditions.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
And the right conditions are not hang me in Adam
Page at the top. Right, you know, MJF is winning
all these stupid rings and battle royals and what's come
of it? One title reign? Really, John Moxley's had John

(34:33):
Moxley has had more title reigns than m JF.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah. Yeah, justin staid. If TNA Wrestling gets on paramount
n CW, yeah, I mean it would be uh, you know,
and and again t NA, I think they would. Uh.
I don't know how much of an audience they'll draw
there in a slot like that, but but uh, they're
kind of I mean.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
I I think the big talk is USA. That's yeah,
that's kind of the implication is USA network.

Speaker 1 (35:08):
USA would make sense because USA, of course is a
part of NBC Universal, as is Peacock and and and
that's that's been part of the reporting is that uh
WWE is trying to leverage their relationship with NBC Universal
to to get them get them on there. Yeah. So yes,

(35:30):
all right, Well do you have anything Do we have
anything else to say about AW or have we exhausted
the subject?

Speaker 2 (35:37):
I mean it, I mean their mistakes have been bigger
than their successes. And that's a problem with the pro
wrestling business.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
Yeah, is if.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
Your mistakes how they handled the CM punk situation horrible, horrible,
and and and let's let me say this, and I
said it during the CM punk episode. CM Punk's words
after all out in their press conference non defensible should

(36:18):
not happen. That's also on Tony Kahn didn't if that
in the bud right when it's happening, not sit there
and say, oh I should have addressed it. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Yeah, that was pretty bad.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
And then you go on TV and say your life
you felt like your life was in danger, and you
release the tape when the tape vindicate CM punk, right,
it's just like, what are you doing? So yeah, and

(36:59):
then they're there just yeah, I I don't know. There
is a love affair with Chris Jericho, and yes, Chris
Jericho is given a lot to aw.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Oh yeah, it was cool. He's a first champion.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
But at some point and that was a major mistake
in my opinion, Oh.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Making Jericho the first champion. Yeah, someone younger and fresher.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
It should have been Kenny Omega.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
Yeah, that would have been perfect. Actually, I agree with you.
I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
Like people people will. People sit there and they're like, oh,
well that you you're bashing EVPs getting over. I'm not
bashing the EVPs getting over. I'm bashing the EVPs putting
themselves over when it doesn't make sense. Right Omega, Kenny
Omega was the hottest talent in pro wrestling at that point.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
It would have been a bigger statement if if it
had been him.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah, why wouldn't you do? Kenny Omega?

Speaker 1 (38:04):
Although, now, if they hadn't gone with Jericho, though, we
might have gotten we might have been deprived by one
of the great backstage moments in wrestling history. You know
what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Oh, God, don't say it. Don't do it, Matt, don't don't,
don't do it. A little bit of the bubbly.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
We might have been deprived of that. Hey, I could
have pulled up the video and played it, please, but
I chose not to. Am I not benevolent?

Speaker 2 (38:41):
I I know because I still had to endure hearing it.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
I mean, that went viral at the time, which did
bring au W some attention, right because they had.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
A in in and it was funny that he was
pouring champagne on himself.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
And I love and I did love the spinal reference
too with the food. He's like, there's a little guy
in there. That was funny because of the spinal tap
is my favorite movie, so I did appreciate the spinal
tap reference.

Speaker 2 (39:09):
Uh, yeah, I've never seen it.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
You've never seen this as spinal tap? Oh you must.
You would definitely enjoy it, you would love it.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
I I have not, mainly because I'm not I really
have I really don't care for Rob Reiner.

Speaker 1 (39:30):
I think you could get past it and enjoy the movie, though,
I mean I enjoy the movie.

Speaker 2 (39:34):
I do. I did enjoy I do enjoy Princess Bride. Yeah,
and and.

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Aren't you aren't you? And All in the Family fan,
I thought you liked All the Family.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
I'm tem Archie. Okay, yeah, I'm tem Archie. I often
find myself outside of the bigotry, agreeing with Archie on
a lot of things.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
Okay, outside you want to make that clear, though.

Speaker 2 (40:02):
Yeah, outside of the bigotry. Although some of his bigoted
comments I do chuckle at because.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well, of course it's funny. But to be All in
the Family is the greatest sitcom in the history of television.

Speaker 2 (40:15):
But I have it. I have it behind Seinfeld. I
think Seinfeld really kind of changed.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
What a Seke was. Seinfeld would be probably my number two, actually,
but I.

Speaker 2 (40:28):
Actually have All in the Family number three.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Okay, what's number number two?

Speaker 2 (40:37):
Personal favorite? Married with children? Oh?

Speaker 1 (40:40):
Okay, I could take it or leave it. It was funny.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
I would never In my high school yearbook when they
asked that age old question, where do you want to
be at our twenty year reunion? I said I wanted
to be the human now Bundy. Yeah, I wanted to
sell women's shoes and just have a miserable life. But

(41:06):
it was all made better by trips to the newdie Bar. Okay,
And you know I did end up selling shoes for
a while. I was a manager at Trade Home Shoes
in Mason City, Iowa.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Well you did it.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
I did it. There were days I'd wear I would
wear my uh Al Bundy no ma'am shirt under my.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Oh yeah, no, ma'am. I remember that. I remember that,
all right, son. Anything we didn't cover on AW that
you wanted to say.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
I don't want people to misconstrued. I do want AW
to be successful because you hit it out of you
hit it perfectly. Rising tide you know that line?

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Sorry, Rising tide raises all ships.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
There we go by the boom. I do agree with that.
I think it's I think it's accurate. And yeah, I
AW has all the tools to succeed. Yeah, they gotta
make some major changes with how things work behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And if they can do that, fine, I mean shit,
bring Jim Cornett on. Yeah, you're gonna piss off a
lot of people.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yeah. I remember him talking about that though, Like I
think someone had asked him. A listener of his podcast
had asked him, you know, because they read what's his
name Brian last reads questions from listeners. Somebody asked him
about that, if you'd ever do it, and he said no,
he has no interest in going back to actively working
in the Red but he makes so much money with
that show and his Cornet's collectibles, he doesn't need to
go back.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Well, he's made so much money over the years.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
I mean, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Keep in mind, Jim Cornett came from money. His family
was wealthy.

Speaker 1 (42:57):
That's true. That's true.

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Yeah, so Cornett really could pave his own way.

Speaker 1 (43:03):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
And the money he's made over the years he's lived
from if you listen to something to wrestle with Bruce Pritchard,
he lives quite frugally. Yeah, so he he doesn't need
the money. So if he's gonna sit there and just

(43:25):
say Hey, I have no desire to return to the business,
more power to it.

Speaker 1 (43:30):
Can't blame him.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Yeah no, The only no one, someone like Jim Cornett
needs to be yeah in in in uh ae.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
W that would fix it is just someone who understands
long term storytelling like Triple H does, and you know
that these guys are in the business, or these girls
are in the business, or a team of people whatever,
that one thing would turn everything around for them. They're
never going to catch up to ww E, that's some possible,
but but they could do much more consistent and just

(44:03):
be in a much better place within the market if
they made that one change.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
And they have totally devalued their championship, Yeah hot shotting
it back and forth and like what's your belt? What?
What's your title? Even mean? There there are pls where
their championship match hasn't been the main event. Yeah what what?

(44:29):
What the hell are you saying?

Speaker 1 (44:31):
You know. The other thing that occurs to me too
is I can't think of anything that WWE has done
that has in any way directly benefited ae W. But
I can, but there are definitely things that were ae
W I think has unwittingly benefited WWE. CM Punk's return
started with a W and and his showing up his

(44:52):
surprise appearance that night at Survivor Series when he came
back meant more because of a W his experienced there
in my opinion, otherwise it might not even happy. Same
with Cody Roads. We had that conversation. Now you did
sway me my opinion about that about you know, would
would uh would Cody Roads? Would he have returned in
the fashion that he did to WWE had it not

(45:14):
been for a W You did sway me a bit,
But it's still it meant even more though it meant
even more than it would have otherwise because of a
W and. Then WWE got to actually steal one of
the e vps from ae W that ended up being
a part of the whole thing. So there there are.
You know, you can point to ways where ae W
has been a direct ballot WWE.

Speaker 2 (45:37):
Stephanie Thecker, Oh that's right, Yes, you booked her on
one on one of your pay per views, but she
doesn't have a deal, right, Yeah, and she tears the
house down.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yep, because she's she's incredible. She's incredible.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
Yeah, good work, And I think that was one of
their cross promotional shows too. They did with like cm
l L or something. Uh, it might have been Forbidden
Door I was.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Gonna say one of their forbidden door shows.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Yeah, so so yeah. I mean they even have great
international partnerships they use. They have a partnership with New Japan. Yeah, Like,
why aren't they using that more?

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Right, that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
You're giving talents off. You're giving talents time off to
climb fucking mountains, but not go over for one of
the greatest pro wrestling events, the g One Climax. The
hell are we doing?

Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (46:41):
Yeah, and dip ship Darby over there.

Speaker 1 (46:46):
Well, I like Darby Allen a coffin, I do not, No,
I liked I like him. I like him.

Speaker 2 (46:51):
He's a spot monkey.

Speaker 1 (46:53):
But that that moved the coffin drop terrifies me when
I see it terrifies me.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
I think he's dangerous in the ring. I think he's
a step above Sammy Callahan with a little more ability.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Wow, Okay, a.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Shit show, mud show, flea market pro wrestler that likes
his flippy do dipsy do dunkaroo spots that make no
damn sense. Yeah, endangering fans by being thrown through a
giant pane of glass that isn't candy glass.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Oh that's not good.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
No, and it shards bounce up and hit fans in
the face, and then he gets sued.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
Yeah no, that's not good.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yeah no, and and yeah, the guy's a dipshit.

Speaker 1 (47:49):
Well he's young, perhaps he'll immature. No, no, a young guy,
isn't he like in his early twenties.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I think he's in near thirty. Oh yeah, that makes
him a bigger dipshit. There's nothing more. There's nothing more
sad and pathetic than an aging extreme It work extreme, right? Uh?

Speaker 1 (48:15):
All right, so have we exhausted the subject of aw
all Elite Wrestling.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Thank god,