Tough Bumps episode 20: Heel Turns

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
We take we are a kidden great it's how we begin.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Man a father up the sayans on the tough Boss name.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey, everybody, welcome, Here we go Episode twenty of Tough Bumps.
My name is Matt Connorton, and of course joining me
as always my partner in crime and this venture. All
the way from the great state of Iowa. Eric Pilcher
is here.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Hello.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Eric?

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Who man?

Speaker 3 (00:40):
How are you?

Speaker 4 (00:42):
I am doing really really good. You know what I
want to do something special? Okay, I'm gonna say thank
you to our fans and supporters.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Without them, we're not here. And I think any in.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
This business with any modicum of brain matter common sense
would realize without your audience you have nothing that is true.
So their support in everything keeps us going. Thank you
for being with us for twenty episodes. I think our

(01:23):
streaming numbers are doing quite well. I don't know you
have those handy or not, but.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
I know that we're I know that we're beating the competition.
Shall we say, I.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Think we're beating Uncle Dave.

Speaker 3 (01:42):
Oh wow, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
No, we're beating there.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
You don't think we're beating Uncle Dave.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Okay, probably not close to Uncle big.

Speaker 3 (01:52):
Okay, okay, say.

Speaker 4 (01:56):
That I feel like we're gaining traction. I do see
the YouTube use and they're propressive. I mean, keep in mind, people,
we don't do a lot of advertising. Probably something we
should work on, get it. That's the busy guy. I
am not being on leave from work due to an injury,

(02:19):
so I could.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
Excuse me.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
We would have to figure out admin duties and such.
But yeah, but thank you to the people who view
us and watch us and everything like that and listen
to me sometimes ramble and coherently. Uh yeah, your your
patreonage is appreciated.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
Yes, very much, so, very much so. Of course, of course,
you know there is someone who refers to us as
ratso and monkey boy, so not appreciate us.

Speaker 4 (02:57):
Well, you know, in order, everyone has haters. But you
know what they say, Matt, haters are your stands in disguise.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yes, yes, your haters. They're going to be the ones
that constantly listen to you.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
That's true.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
They're going to tune in.

Speaker 3 (03:19):
That's true. That's true every.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Little thing we do.

Speaker 4 (03:23):
The fact that they had a ridiculous nickname for us
just shows how much how much we matter to them.
So thank you to that individual. Thank you for thinking
so much about us.

Speaker 1 (03:43):
You have to come up with a nickname.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
Having eo erotic fantasies about both Matt and I.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
He does. He does talk about things that he wants
to do to us with our well, with our butts.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
Yeah, I've noticed something.

Speaker 4 (03:58):
You noticed how well he'll talk about something homo erotic
about you and then you'll instantly get mad about Jenny.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
I have noticed that. Yes, he's clearly very jealous.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
Yeah, very jealous of Jenny and Jenny great woman doing
big things.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
You can. Let's go positive here, even more positive than
episode money.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
Oh yes, Jenny will be tonight for those watching or
viewing live, Jenny will be of course, you can always
find it later too on demand. She'll be on John
Oliver Last Week with John Oliver Last Week Tonight I'm
Sorry is the name of the show on HBO that
will be airing tonight at eleven pm on Sunday night,
and then I believe the next day it goes up

(04:45):
on their YouTube channel, so you'll be able to see it.
So she's in a segment. You know, she does a
lot of healthcare activism about access to healthcare. That's one
of the reasons, that's where this act came from. Actually
that I'm worrying. But yeah, so she'll be tonight on
John Oliver. Check that out. It's a pretty big deal.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
That's awesome. Kudos to Jenny.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
You know, much like you and I sometimes Jenny and
I have political differences of opinion.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
Sure sure, so yeah, so that's exciting. Now she won't
be as famous as, of course Sammy Hagar after tonight, but.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Or VPN goddess or the up.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Or VPN goddess Stephanie mcmannon. Speaking of Sammy Hagar, though
he wasn't the news because you know this impersonator who
did impersonate him at a WWF event back in nineteen
eighty six. Apparently he's added again and has been caught.
This is what he looks like now, and so there
he is in all his glory. Now he's I believe

(05:50):
he's seventy eight years old living in New York City.
And I'll just say, this is the same guy who
criticizes He was very critical of my appearance recently, saying
that I was aging terribly and that I looked very
old all of a sudden, and that's uh, that's this
guy here. That you see in the upper left. That's

(06:13):
the same guy.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Man, you talk about aging horribly.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, I mean I I do think I look better
than him too, Thank you, thank you. So so this
is what he looks like now, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
What he's got lighter than we thought.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
Fake, can't see see me, Hagar, look like. I think
there's two of them, Matt, really.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
I think bring of fake Sammy Hagars.

Speaker 3 (06:44):
Oh that could be. They could all be in cahoots.

Speaker 4 (06:49):
Well this I mean, because the one that we know
it is he but he has said it's all right
if you're all white.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
Maybe that got pas down to this one.

Speaker 3 (07:02):
Yeah, because this one does appear to be an albino. Yes, yes,
so you don't think it's the same guy I'm going
on here? Hmm, all right, all right, well very good.
We shoul put the other one back on the screen
just for a moment though, because there he is. I

(07:23):
don't know if that's from the if that's from the
WWF event that where he was impersonating, or if that's
on stage with Mailbox Dog.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
I think it's Mailbox Dogs reunion tour.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
Oh goodness, well that's horrifying. What a terrible band. Cool
name terrible band.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Their music video looked like total crap.

Speaker 4 (07:43):
I remember watching it looked like it was put Microsoft paint.

Speaker 3 (07:48):
Yes, yes, terrible band. I hear they're going to be
on streaming platforms everywhere soon. Avoid them, horrible horrible band.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
You really won't be able to take much more.

Speaker 3 (08:02):
Mm hmm that's right, absolutely absolutely. Well, should we get
to our news items this week? What do you want
to start with? Eric?

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Soon? We start with how a Halloween costume?

Speaker 3 (08:18):
Oh? Yes, yes, let's see. Let me get that up here.
There we go. Now does he know that you were
planning to do this?

Speaker 4 (08:28):
I totally don't believe in journalistic integrity.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
I asked everyone.

Speaker 4 (08:34):
This is a co creator of Tough Bumps, Austin my cousin,
Austin Hicks in his Halloween costume.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
He is John sena.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
He's John what?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
John Cena?

Speaker 3 (08:53):
Oh? Oh okay. For some reason, it sounded funny in
my headphones the way he said it the first time.
I thought you were putting a different spin on it,
John Cena. Yes, there he is. So that's your cousin, Austin.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
Yes, that is Austin Hicks. This is what makes wrestling great.
I was around this kid for all of his life.
He was born two days before I graduated high school.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
When he was young, he loved John Cena.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
He had the WWE toy kit, he had the spinning belt,
he had it all. He had almost every John Cena
figure you could imagine. And what makes pro wrestling great
is if we sit there and look up to professional athletes,

(09:46):
they come and go by. It's almost as if professional
wrestlers that you adore and you look up to and
you have a hero warship of, so to speak, they
stick with you.

Speaker 3 (10:03):
We really do, absolutely, absolutely What does he love about
John Cena?

Speaker 4 (10:13):
You know, we've never had that discussion. I give him
crap about him. I use the whole five moves of
doom and But I have breaking news for our Tough Bump.
It's a couple months away, but we will do a
two part career retrospective on John Cena. Yes, and we

(10:39):
will have a special guest host for both episodes. Matt
Oh really okay, Yes, we will. Austin Hicks the a Hiszele,
one of the co creators of The Late Night Crew,
which you can find on SoundCloud.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Look for their hit song Applebee's Oh Wow. He will be.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
Joining us to talk about the career of John Cena
for both episodes.

Speaker 3 (11:12):
Okay, excellent, Well, we look forward to that. Very good,
very good, all right, anything else to say on that.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
No, I'm looking forward. I'm looking forward to it.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
I think it'll be fun and I can't think of
anyone better to have as a guest host than Austin.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
M hm hm, well, very good, all right, I'll look
forward to meeting him.

Speaker 4 (11:40):
Is a major John Cena fan and so and a
rapper with his group to Late Night Crew?

Speaker 3 (11:53):
Do they continue?

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Are they active hiatus? Right now?

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Okay, all right, I'll talk him out though.

Speaker 4 (12:01):
They're actually contributing members of society. Maybe you can talk
to him about coming on Matt Connorton Unleashed. Maybe the
lyrics might be a little risque.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
They are a rap group.

Speaker 3 (12:17):
Well, I am able to uh to make radio edits.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
You know what, Maybe we can work something out.

Speaker 4 (12:23):
Maybe this can be a bridge we've already had kind
of like a collaborate, a collabo.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
That's what the young people call it.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
Collabo. I think they say collab, don't they do the collabo?

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Did he said collabo?

Speaker 3 (12:41):
He did? Did he? Well, he's he's kind of canceled though.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
I know going to prison. Yeah, he was ready for prison.

Speaker 4 (12:55):
Yeah, he could be getting computed.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
So that's true. True, that's true, he could get a pardon. Well,
so I'm sorry. Should we move on to uh to
our next news item on what say that? Again?

Speaker 4 (13:15):
We probably should move move on because we'll get canceled ourselves.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
Oh my goodness, well yes, what where'd you like to
go next?

Speaker 4 (13:25):
How about uh the how about the plans for the
w WF Championship.

Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yes, Seth Rollins has vacated his title. His title has
been vacated. He has been stripped. However you want to
say it due to his injury, which does turn out
to be legitimate. So now it's going to be uh
CM punk versus jay Usso.

Speaker 4 (13:47):
I don't say he copied my Look there is a
photo of him wearing an immobilizer.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Oh that's yes, yes, of course, of course.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I you know why.

Speaker 4 (13:59):
I'm just gonna come out and say it, Matt, I
am revolutionary. I am the visionary. Now you are.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Well, congratulations, we have popularized shoulder injuries.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
Wow, well someone had to might as well be someone
from because you are, of course, and it makes sense
that he would copy you because you are from Iowa
and he is from Iowa. And the only reason I
know that is because it is in his ring entrance.
They say, Davenport, Iowa.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Well, I'm from a bigger city than him as well. Yeah,
the is bigger than Davenport. Unless you account for the
other three parts of the quad Cities, then it's not. Okay,
four cities called the quad Cities.

Speaker 3 (14:50):
Okay, Okay, Dorf.

Speaker 4 (14:53):
Moline, Rock Island, in Davenport. Two of them are in Illinois.
Two of them are are in Iowa.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
Okay. I'm glad you say Illinois correctly, by the way,
as a Midwesterner, of course you do. But a lot
of people, see I learned because I don't know if
you know this about me. I spent a lot of
time in Illinois as a kid. Because uh slid there
say that again, Eric, I'm sorry. Parents lived there. My
mother Yeah, now now she lives in Kenosha, Wisconsin, but

(15:24):
she did live in Illinois, and she would always it
would always bother her when she would hear people say
Illinois because the s is silent. So I committed here
for saying that correctly because many many people say that wrong.
I haven't hear. I mean, I've heard journalists in national
media mispronounce it.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
Much like a city in Iowa, people mispronounce it as
des moyne As.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
You've actually heard people say it des Moynees I have. Oh,
that's just embarrassing. Wow.

Speaker 4 (15:55):
Flying from Augusta, Maine, a connecting flight in Georgia and
the lady goes now boarding for des Moynes Iowa.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Wow, that's pretty bad. Ye, that's pretty bad. Do you
have any kind of a prediction for the match seeing
Punk versus Jayuso.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
There's one of the few times in pro wrestling where
I have to sit there and say, I have no idea.
They could go different directions. They could have Punk win,
they could have jay Usa win. They could have one
of them win in turn heel. They could have someone
else interfere in turnhel there are so many different ways

(16:45):
they could go about it. We're getting close to Gunther returning,
there's rumors of Chris Jericho returning.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
There are so.

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Many different ways they can go about this. I have
what I hope happens. I hope CM Punk wins. Being
a Punk fan, I want it and I feel rob
But I could see him going with j and having

(17:16):
a heel turn ocher could be that would make perfect sense.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
There's obviously a growing discontentment with jay Uso in the
IWC right now, eighty thousand over eighty thousand dislikes on
the video of him winning the Royal Rumble, winning the
Battle Royal. Sorry to see who would take now?

Speaker 4 (17:44):
That could be a variety of things. Could be upset
that bron Breaker didn't get the nod, which I do
agree with, because if you put bron Breaker in that spot,
and we talked about this last week, so we're not
gonna go too far into it. But if you put

(18:04):
him in that spot and he fails, you destroy him,
it's over. You have to send him back ten x T.
You have to build him back up. You have to
find a new gimmick. It's over and done. You cannot
rebuild from that.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
Mmm. I think you can if you if you do
it right, if you're smart about it. But I don't.
I don't think. Uh, but I don't. You know, as
we discussed last week, I don't have the same concern
about that that you do.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
You you can put him, there are ways you can
put him in those events to protect him mm hmm.
And from that damage. Putting him in this spot in
a mergency mop up duty spot is wrong. Because it fails,

(19:00):
it's going to be remembered.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
Yeah, I just think his upside is so great that
uh he literally, I mean they would have to try
to screw it up to actually screw it up, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Things that had upside and they screwed it up.

Speaker 4 (19:18):
Damien Sandau Austiny, Yeah, bearing, Yeah, pushes can get derailed
for a lot of reasons.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
But I just worry about it a lot less with
Triple ahent Charge than I did with Vince. With Vince,
I expected things to get screwed up. I don't expect
it with Triple H Pines.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
As much as people like to disagree with this creative
doesn't even have control over it.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
It just happens.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
You botch a spot, you botch a big spot, you
mess up a promo, You do something that at the
time seems so innocuous that it doesn't have that lasting impact.
But you know who I thought could have won the

(20:17):
Royal Rumble? Oh sorry, the battle I keep miss speaking.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Yeah, who say that again? La Night, Elle Knight, Yeah,
the fans. I think that's why the fans are why
in the IWC they're resenting jay Us a little bit.
They want to see La Night finally get his moment
as as champion.

Speaker 4 (20:39):
It's not even so much a moment as champion, it's
let him be in the main event.

Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because the only time I can think
of offhand where he's really actually been in the main
event was that Crown Jewel that time against Roman Reigns.
And obviously La Knight was not going over in that
and that was a foregone conclusion, I believe able.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Spot like he like, he performed very well in that match.
He's a job and it looked good. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
I just kind of was like, okay, we gave it
to you.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Back to the mid card.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
Yeah, the clock is sticking on him too. You know,
he's what forty one forty two? Now they need to uh,
you know, strap that rocket on and even if it's
a short trip, do it. You got to do it now.
Times running out, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
Like, well you have you've had that rocket on CM
Punk And he's the same damn age, I mean in
less Now he's older and what.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Today is it is his birthday?

Speaker 3 (21:46):
See him Punk's birthday? Yes, it is, what is he
forty six?

Speaker 1 (21:51):
I think seven?

Speaker 3 (21:52):
Now forty seven? Yeah? Yeah, so yeah, but but Punk
is always over no matter what. But La Knight, I mean,
I think they got to give him. They got to
give him one world title reign.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
I don't think they've got to give him one world
title rain.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
It has to happen organically.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
It has to happen so the fans don't see through it,
so they're not like, Okay, this is just a token.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Hey, good career, here you go. I feel sure, but.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
Again, the clock is running out. I mean I know, yeah,
I mean, you know, Seampunk is forty seven, you know
our truth is fifty three or something. I know. But still,
you know it's uh, you know, you can't wait till
he's forty five to do this, you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (22:50):
I mean the Saturday Night's main event is shaping up
to be a blockbuster nine too. You have Tiffany Stratton
and Jade Cargill and then you go back and tire
in Cody Rhoades. We could see three new We're guaranteed
to see one new champion.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Out of Saturday Nights.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Why do you say that?

Speaker 4 (23:14):
Well, because Jay Us and c Im Punk are having
a match for the.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
Vacant that's true. Yeah, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 4 (23:22):
Well, very well could see it coming out of two.
We could see two more with Cody and Drew. There
is a colamorate that maybe you.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Do have Cody drop it to Drew.

Speaker 4 (23:39):
Yeah, bringing Randy Orton back, and you are having a
feud between Cody and Randy.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
That view does not need the title, right, that's true.

Speaker 3 (23:50):
Good point.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
You have a good enough story without the title, and
I think the title would almost be a detriment to
their story.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
What because you're not gonna have Randy Orton.

Speaker 4 (24:05):
Drop the You're not gonna have Cody drop the title
to Randy Orton. You're not wouldn't make no sense.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
I agree.

Speaker 4 (24:20):
So anyway, everyone's gonna be like, oh, well, they're not
gonna have Cody. They're not gonna have Cody lose to
Randy in this Right, You're not gonna have Cody drop
the belt or it's gonna be a Schmas finish. But
you have Randy turn on Cody cost him the title.

(24:44):
Now you have this story where you have Cody. Does
he go back after Drew to get his title back,
or does he go after Randy Randy keeps screwing him
over in every opportunity till they build to a match
between the two.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, where is Orton? By the way, I feel like
we haven't seen him in a few weeks.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
I think he's taking time off.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
I think that's kind of the big thing NATL they want.
He's an extreme part timer right now and he's earned that.

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Right Yeah, Oh, absolutely absolutely, Well, should we move on
to the next news item? Yes, let's see. Oh before
we do that, I meant to mention this at the
top of the show, and I completely forgot. I'll mention
this now before we move on to the next news item.

(25:39):
And I kind of put you on the spot a
little bit, Eric, but it is completely up to you,
no pressure either way. But this coming Saturday on November first,
on Matt Connorton Unleashed joining me in the second hour
of the program will be the one and only Charles Richardson,
host of The Charles Richardson Show, coming on to talk
to some wrestling, and you're welcome to join us for

(26:00):
that if you'd like.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
I think I should be able.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
To Okay, okay, very good. So just wanted to throw
that out there and if for any reason you can't.
That's okay. I know I'm putting you on the spot.
But if you think you can, that's great.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
I'll be back your work yet.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
So yeah, all right, all right, very good, very good.
Uh let's see, so we have Abdullah the Butcher. Well,
look at that guy. Would you like to have him
over for Thanksgiving? I? No, no, Now, I Before we
talk about I'll just preface this by saying, I don't
know how you feel about him. I was never a

(26:36):
fan of Abdullah the Butcher because I'm not a fan
of blood and gore and shoving uh screwdrivers into people's
foreheads or whatever the hell this guy did. But but
but go ahead Ullah.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
That that isn't.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
My issue with Abdullah is it's rumored, heavily rumored that
he has hepatitis c oh and he's continued doing bloody brawls.
I also was at an independent wrestling show in Omaha
in Omaha, Nebraska that he appeared at. And you know,

(27:15):
it's kind of a thing where if you're a wrestling legend,
you take the boys aside after their matches at the
show because you're getting paid big money to be there.
Andrew making money off autograph sales and all your merch
sales and whatever the hell.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Probably more than what they get paid to be there
in some cases, I mean.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
And sometimes they get a cut of the ticket of
the gig. So but Abdullah decides he isn't going to
do this. He's sitting with the fans openly shitting on
the wrestlers.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Oh wow, Really, things are getting off on it.

Speaker 4 (28:03):
They think it's a work. It's not a work. This
guy just being a legitimate asshole.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
Like before intermission they had a false count anywhere match.
In the whole time Abdullah is ripping on the spots
they're doing. Well, that's not cool, shitty way to be
because it's like one you're you're not. No one ever

(28:39):
has said, in my opinion, nobody's wanted to watch an
Abdullah the Butcher match because of Abdullah the Butcher. They
want to watch it Bruiser Brodie or or somebody else
from World Class Championship Wrestling. It has not a damn
thing that with Bruiser Brody. I mean, sorry, Abdullah the Butcher,

(29:05):
rest in peace, Bruiser, no disrespect. So yeah, that's my
issue with Abdullah, and it just soured me on I
wasn't a major fan going into it.

Speaker 1 (29:18):
Yeah, and then him Andy and Rotten.

Speaker 4 (29:21):
Pro Wrestling Grifter had a match in IWA where they
blood everywhere, like stuck.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
Pigs, led on fans.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
White blood on fans of T shirts. It was just disgusting.

Speaker 3 (29:39):
Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
But I do know this.

Speaker 4 (29:43):
He has had some severe health issues for many, many
years now. He has been hospitalized. Not the word on
what's going on with him?

Speaker 3 (29:56):
Okay, how old is see? I mean he must be
up there.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Right, four years old?

Speaker 3 (30:02):
How old?

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Eighty four?

Speaker 3 (30:06):
Oh eighty four? Okay, yeah, he's wow, but he's been
he's been recently having matches at his age.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Oh no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
No, oh okay No's.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
With Ian occurred in the early two thousands.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Gotcha, gotcha. But even then he was like, uh, that's
kind of old to be getting in the ring.

Speaker 1 (30:28):
Wow, he had matches in his sixties.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
Who did this?

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Is still doing matches?

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yeah? I know. Just Abdullah such a big guy already.
You know, you would think he'd dropped out of a
heart attack or something.

Speaker 4 (30:47):
But yeah, yeah, I'd not been confirmed as at the
time of this writing. It was written twenty roughly twenty
four hours ago.

Speaker 3 (31:02):
Okay, all right, well, best wish us Abdullah.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
I'm sorry what serious health issues and that he needs
the prayers and support of fans now more than ever.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
Okay, all right, well fair enough, all right, Well so
we move on to the main event.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
So we're talking about heel turns.

Speaker 4 (31:30):
Yes, and I'll let you Matt educate the uneducated so
to speak on what a heel is.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
Oh, when you say uneducated, do you mean do you
mean him.

Speaker 4 (31:44):
More towards the original fake Seemie Hagar?

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Oh you mean him, yes, that guy. Yeah, with apologies
to our our audio listeners, but yes, so. So heel turn,
of course, is when when a babyface, a quote unquote
good guy suddenly well not necessarily suddenly, but becomes a

(32:08):
bad guy, turns to the dark side, turns heel. That
is a heel turn, and of course a babyface turn
is the inverse of that.

Speaker 4 (32:17):
Double turn. Well is when two turns happen in the
same match. And I'm sure about the greatest double turn
ever in this episode, because I mean we've talked about
it many, many, many many times before.

Speaker 3 (32:36):
Yeah, of course, of course. Well, well where would you
like to start with this? I mean, I.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
Think the starting point is would have to be why
do you do a heel turn?

Speaker 3 (32:48):
Mm hmm, well, I mean, really, the way I see it,
I would say, for the same reason you do a
baby face turn if you want to freshen up a character,
if you want to maybe they've become a bit stale
and you want to do something new with them, or
maybe it's or maybe it's Sometimes it's a matter of
finding out or trying to see if someone's better suited
to that role. Like The Rock, for example, comes to mind.

(33:12):
When the Rock was a white meat babyface as Rocky
my Via and the fans hated him so much and
they didn't buy the gimmick. And there's Rocky, Rocky is
very adorable, adorable dog, but when the fans weren't buying it,
we're in bying in the Rocky my villa. And then
he turned heel, joining the Nation of Domination and all that.
It turned out he was a fantastic heel, so good

(33:34):
at being a heel that eventually he had to turn
face again because the fans found him to be so
entertaining in this new new role. And that happens to
you sometimes.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
I think the big thing with the rock And that's
a very good one to bring up, is it was
just such a shitty gimmick when.

Speaker 3 (33:52):
He was face initially.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Yeah, yeah, it was just that it was bad. Was bad.
You know. There there are ideas that you.

Speaker 4 (34:09):
Hear some wrestlers talk about as this was their original
idea for me, and I'm like, no, Like they wanted
it turn the ring master into the iceman Steve Austin
and they had him wear ice suit like mister Freeze.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
Yeah, And he had the good sense to reject that idea.

Speaker 4 (34:37):
Physically told Bill, he said, point blank, Vince, that's the ships, yeah,
which is wrestling for I'm not doing that. That is
a bad idea, right. They originally had called McK foley
mankind the mutilator. I didn't know that, Yeah, And then like,

(35:00):
well that's a lot for me to get out.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
Why don't we.

Speaker 3 (35:03):
Just short Yeah, yeah, you mean kai Yeah, And he
was wrong, he.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Was I mean most of it.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
Look, most of the time, the wrestlers are right because
they are in front of the fans nightly and it's
what are they going to feel comfortable?

Speaker 1 (35:25):
What?

Speaker 3 (35:26):
What?

Speaker 4 (35:27):
What are they going to be comfortable? Do we m
h if they're not comfortable. It's not going to be believable.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Like I he was harken back to the night on.

Speaker 4 (35:42):
Thursday, Raw Thursday, most known for when Shawn Michaels lost
his smile.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yes, but something else happened on that that was rather historic.

Speaker 4 (35:58):
Rocky my via b triple h for the Intercontinental title
then hurts him. Helmsley doc Hendricks is interviewing him and
the Crown's booming.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
You're in the interview. Yeah, that's when you know.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
Yeah, well, because at that point you've got nothing to
lose if you try. If you've got a babyface who's
being booed to that extent, you've got nothing to lose, right,
you might as well try him as a heel because
obviously what you're doing isn't working.

Speaker 4 (36:38):
Or god until he got injured, he injured his shoulder.
I think was the was the overwhelming story or what happened? Sorry,
the Rock injured his shoulder, It came back.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
And here we are and he came back as a
member of the nation and.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Domination mm yep, yep, and got over huge. What's interesting
about that too, about the Rock is so if you
fast forward to years later. You know, he's he becomes
a part timer because he's making movies, he's spending a
lot of time in Hollywood. And then he comes back

(37:26):
as a babyface because now he's this big Hollywood actor
and the fans were starting to boo him, and they did,
and they ended up turning him again. But this time
it was interesting because they'd done something they'd never really
that I can recall really done before where the Rock.

(37:47):
So he's turning, but he's actually like acknowledging, I'm turning
heel this time because you guys clearly want me to
be a heel. Remember that promo where he said he
says to the audience, he says, do you realize where
we're all gonna go? If? I forget exactly how he
said the rest of it, but if because obviously he
didn't say if I turn heel. But he's like, you know,

(38:08):
you really want that version of the Rock or something
like that, And that's what they wanted, and that's what
he gave them. And then because he gave them that,
what happens. Now he's a heel. But now some of
the crowd is cheering him as a heel because this
is the version of the Rock they wanted and now
they're getting it. So it's interesting. It's different than when
when when I first started watching it when I was

(38:30):
a kid, because you know, at some point it became
a lot of people would cheer, like if the heel
is entertaining enough and you're enjoying him as a heel,
you're going to end up cheering Hi, even though he's
supposed to be a heel. The dynamics have changed a
lot over the years, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
They have, and.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
A lot of it is due to dirt sheets. The
bands have become smartened up, but the detriment to that
is the fans think they know better than the wrestlers.
And I think that was a big thing that the

(39:09):
Rock did when he did that, is you don't really
because I'm gonna you think you caused this heel. Turn no, no, no, no,
turn it, and it's gonna be on you. And you
know what, I've been in Hollywood, I've been making movies.
I don't have to come back and be a professional wrestler.
I can just make movies. You all suck. Yeah, And

(39:34):
it worked perfectly, I mean because I first time he
took a hiatus to do movies. He came back and
was over like Rover as a babyface. Then the second
time he did it again over like Rover. He had
the match with Thatie Guerre on Raw. Off of that,

(39:58):
that had a It was kind of the precipice that
built towards the office realizing Eddie can, Eddie can run
with this ball here and you sit there and you're
watching it. And the time it happened, he came back,

(40:25):
dropped the belt to He had dropped the belt to
Brock and it was the night after WrestleMania and he
had finally been stone cold at WrestleMania mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
And he's like, who's next, bil.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
Bergadies, you know the rock is. I don't know if
there's a better professional wrestler at being able to play,
to be able to play to the crowd no matter
what they Yeah, yeah, you can whip it like that.

(41:11):
That's why I feel not having him. And you've agreed
with this. For the John Cena heel turn was what
killed the John Cena heel turn.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
Sort of we'll get to that. We'll get to that.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Under the when don't they work?

Speaker 3 (41:32):
Yeah, well we'll get to that because that's complicated. I
have some some feelings on that, but what's.

Speaker 1 (41:40):
Episode on why that didn't work? Then?

Speaker 4 (41:46):
I do agree that he'll turns happen because you're really
trying to generate new buzz into someone.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
That's also why conversely they may not work.

Speaker 3 (42:01):
Mm hm, you know, yeah, if it's if it's forced.
A great example. When you say a heel turn that
doesn't work, the first thing that comes to mind for
me is Goldberg. When they tried that in WCW. That
did not work at all.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
It was one before it.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
One before w CW did and even the night had happened.
It wasn't a why the hell are they doing this?
I'm mad they're doing this.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
It was doesn't make sense.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Dusty Rhodes, Oh yeah, yeah, that one was strange too.

Speaker 5 (42:44):
Yeah, well they did it.

Speaker 4 (42:48):
To be fair, their heart was in the right place
as to why they did it. They wanted to have
a veteran influence around Skill and Louise Specolei at all. Yeah,
even on the road. So how else do you explain

(43:12):
why Dusty is traveling with these two?

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Right?

Speaker 6 (43:18):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (43:18):
For those who don't know, uh, Scott Hall and Louis
Pacoley obviously both had uh, pretty severe issues in terms
of I guess alcohol, right, I don't know, not so
much pills, but maybe I'm not sure you would know
better than me.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Definitely with Scott it was pills.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
It was pills, okay, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Him and Sean would take.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. The Dusty Roads one was was strange.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
That was so bad.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
And then it was so bad that it was one
of them that they just moved in to the announced
booth with no explanation.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Yeah, they just abandoned it, which isn't very satisfying.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
Fans were totally cool with it.

Speaker 3 (44:10):
Yeah, yeah, that was Yeah, that was a strange one.
I'd actually forgotten about. That one.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
That was old Berg's was bad because they did it
after they ended the streak. And if you were to
end the streak, wide him off TV, take him off
TV for a while. No, they still wanted him around
because he was a draw. The problem is, what do

(44:39):
you do with him the streak has ended? You want
to you should want to strap a rocket to Kevin
Nash's ass straight to the top.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
Yeah, but they did. They did the finger polk a doom.

Speaker 3 (44:58):
Oh that was dreadful. But but the other the other oh,
go ahead thin.

Speaker 4 (45:06):
The golder heel turned because they tried it twice, but
it is second. The second I think it would have
worked because fans were starting to turn on him. But
he had to go and punch his hand through that
car window.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
I remember that. Yeah, yeah, he almost he almost severed
his hand.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
Yeah, yeah, that, I mean that would have been the
time to do.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
And you haven't.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
Joined you have him joined the nWo, and it would
have made sense.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah, but the problem and that.

Speaker 4 (45:47):
Incarnation of the nWo, had they went that route, would
have made.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
A lot of sentence.

Speaker 4 (45:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:54):
The problem with the first one.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
You had Goldberg got injured shortly after Brett got injured
ironically by Goldberg.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, so about Brett.

Speaker 4 (46:07):
And without Goldberg you had Steiner, Nash and Jerry.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Well, the biggest problem with the first one to me
was when I remember that the promo, the big, the
big promo, Goldberg comes out and we're gonna hear from him.
Now is a heel and he goes, uh, he says
something like, so everyone's asking me, why'd you do it?
I'll tell you why, why the hell not? And it's like, oh,
that's great, okay. I mean that literally is what he said,

(46:37):
and it's like, this is some lazy writing here, and
there was never any He never offered an explanation. It
was stupid, very very stupid use.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
And that's the interesting thing about it is it never
made sense.

Speaker 1 (46:54):
Yeah, yeah, was never done.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
Right. So, do you have a favorite heel turn?

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Yeah, it's got to be Brett. Yeah, it's gotta be Brett.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
When uh, now, I assume you're talking about the double
turn with Austin that happened in the ring during their match.
Is that? Is that? What are you refering to that specifically?
I assume you're not referring to any of the several,
however many that happened in w c W where they
had him turning almost as often as the Big Show.
I assume you're not talking about that.

Speaker 4 (47:33):
I'm bustin one because that one and then the next.

Speaker 1 (47:39):
Night that promo he cut.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Yeah, to come out and cut the promo with Owen
and Davey in the middle of their match.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
Yeah, so it was great.

Speaker 4 (48:02):
And you that there he gives like that cold callous stare.
Is Davy and Owen are hugging him? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (48:11):
Yeah, god, this is yeah, yeah, no, that was that
was excellent. Of course.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
My favorite. Hogan joining the nw.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
O Yeah, yeah is.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
And one thing that.

Speaker 4 (48:36):
I'll say about that is a lot of people have
said that this is a detriment to it, but I
think it actually made it better.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
It was a little nuanced part of it.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
M hmm, what's up.

Speaker 4 (48:53):
A little nuanced part of it is when Hogan's walking
down and Bobby Heenan on Commentary goes side, is he on?

Speaker 7 (49:03):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I didn't care for that, bud it because.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
That is Bobby Bobby for he did Bastogan in Cities.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
He said something like that. I think I would have
spoiled it.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
See I think, uh well, I liked one of the things.
I didn't like that he said that, But I don't
think it ruined it by any means either. But I
do think that one of the things that made the
Hogan turn so effective was Bobby Heenan then on Commentary,
not just then, but but week after week saying, you know,
Bobby Heenan, the classic heel manager, saying over and over

(49:45):
he'd say it every week. I told you, I told
you who this guy really was all these years, I
told you who hul Cogan really was, and you didn't listen.
And I was right, and he was. He was kind
of vindicated and it was That was a cool part
that I think a lot of people missed. A lot
of people missed that because nobody ever brings that part up.
But that, to me, that's a key element in what

(50:07):
made the Hogan turn so effective.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
It wasn't for Bobby Heenan.

Speaker 4 (50:12):
I don't think hul Cogan would have been as over
as he was.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Yeah, Bobby Heenan. As much as the Iron Cheek and
Rodney Piper jump.

Speaker 4 (50:25):
Started whole comania, Bob Heenan carried it.

Speaker 8 (50:30):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 4 (50:32):
For it to be successful, you have to have that
monster heel and a lot of the moles WWF had
at that time as it was in the eighties, you don't.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
You don't sit there and how do I want to
ward this?

Speaker 4 (50:55):
They didn't have great mic skills. You had to have
them out peace with him. That mouthpiece for a lot
of them was Bobby Heenan.

Speaker 3 (51:06):
Yes, Oh yeah, yep.

Speaker 4 (51:09):
Bobby Heenan is what really made the Andre Hogan feud work.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Oh yeah, absolutely, yeah, because Andre didn't talk much.

Speaker 4 (51:18):
Him, Bobby. You don't have that prespice for Andre turning. Uh,
you have the person that was in Andre's ear.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
Oh, it was so great when when Andrea and and
Heenan walk out on Piper's pit and Hogan's like, what
are you doing with this guy? Oh? It was perfect.
It was so well done.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
What's up the contract signing?

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Oh yeah, that was good too.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
If you're gonna sign it, brother, sign it, I mean
to hear him.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah, the whole thing was so good. The match was
ship but the build up was incredible. I mean to me,
I mean that was just you know, and I was
a kid. I was like, Wow, I was just enthralled
by all of it. Should we talk about uh, should

(52:17):
we talk about John Cena? We can, because there's a
lot to unpack with that one.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
I I I think it goes back to my original point.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Mm hmm Sina mm hm. Is uh.

Speaker 4 (52:41):
The original point I had with in regards to John
Cena in the heel Turn or anyone doing hell turn
I'm sorry, is the talent has to believe in it,
and I don't. John full he was fully committed to

(53:02):
being a heel.

Speaker 3 (53:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
I think that hurt it.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
I think a key element of it was the rock
in not having the rock there after the heel Turn
killed it. Because the in this started is the rock
wanded Cody's soul, right, John sold his soul to the rock, right.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
But yeah, it just made the whole thing bad.

Speaker 3 (53:39):
So here's what I what I think, and this is
I and again, and we talked about it before. I'm
definitely in the minority. I'm on an island on this.
I know. Within the IWC. I liked the heel seeing
a turn, well, I love the I think everyone liked
the turn, like that moment. That moment was seismic, but
I I liked that. I don't agree that he wasn't committed.

(54:03):
I think he was. I think that, But I think
that what people didn't like. What a lot of people
didn't like, I think they wanted seeing it to be
more sort of overtly evil, or they were looking for
something that he wasn't quite giving us. And this is
what I think. I said this to you before I'll
say it again. I liked that he didn't overplay it.

(54:24):
He underplayed it, and I thought that was cool. It's
like when he came out and he said, what you
expect me to go back to my old music or
have new music, or you expect different outfits or whatever
you get nothing and that minimalism. I liked that whole thing.

Speaker 4 (54:44):
I think the promos were very good. Oh you do, okay, Yeah,
I just think not having the Rock killed it. John
Semol could have done anything. John Teena's a great MC guy,
one of the best.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
To absolutely absolutely, but you.

Speaker 4 (55:08):
If you're going to have a person be a prespice
for a heel, turn that person consistently be around.

Speaker 3 (55:18):
It helps. I think they could have gotten around that though,
I really do. And part of why I think if
they needed to tweak as much as I was enjoying it,
I would have tweaked a couple things, one of them
being and I think because Sina is so good on
the way, he could have pulled this off, you know
if really because they didn't play up enough the element

(55:40):
of spin it a little bit. As I didn't sell
my soul to the Rock. I sold my soul to Hollywood,
and they could have even with the Rock not being around,
they could have drawn on the past and said, you know,
this is what they could have done, and Sina totally
have pulled it off. They could have had seen out

(56:02):
there saying listen, I criticized the Rock all those years ago,
but now I get it now. I understand why the
real reason he sold his soul to Hollywood. Now that
I'm in that position, I finally get it. So now
I'm doing the same damn thing and you all don't
like it, but this is who I really am. Something

(56:23):
like that. So even without the Rock around, if you
adjust the narrative, he didn't sell his soul to the Rock.
He's just following the Rocks example. He's now sold his
soul to Hollywood. I think with that little adjustment, I
think it would have worked better, but they didn't do that.
And listen when I see all the stuff he's doing

(56:44):
now now that he's gone back to being a babyface,
it is all really good. I loved his match with
aj Styles, so I get it. So maybe it is
just as well that it didn't work out and they
changed him back, because we are getting some really good stuff.
But I will say this to everyone who says, oh,
it was a failure, they should never have done the

(57:05):
heel turn to begin with. I would just say this,
think about this, even if you hated everything about it,
if they hadn't, if in an alternate universe says no
John Cena, heeltern right, if they hadn't done that, we
would have been deprived of an awesome moment because Seena's
heel turn, in my opinion, that moment it was seismic.

(57:27):
It was people were talking about it on par with
the Hogan heel turn, and everything about it was so
perfectly done. The way they zoom in on his face
when he's hugging Cody and the Rock is looking at
him and they make eye contact and seen his expression
changes and he goes from smiling to that sinister look,
and oh my god. It was so so good, and

(57:49):
we if they hadn't gone for it, if they hadn't
at least tried that, we would have been deprived of
that amazing moment, which, by the way, got a lot
of mainstream media attention. I'm sure you'd I know. I
talked to people. I heard from people who are like, hey, Matt,
what's this all about. I saw something on news about
John Cena is a villain now, and I haven't watched
wrestling in a long time, so I haven't kept up

(58:09):
with what's going on. Tell me about it. I mean,
we would have been deprived of all of that if
they hadn't gone for it.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
Yeah, I had people come up to me at work
and they're like, what they do with John Cena, Yeah,
isn't that cool? But you then have to I felt
any way that I had to go into nuances of
the business.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
It's a lot to explain. Like if you're talking to
somebody who either has never really been into wrestling or
they just haven't watched it in a really long time,
it is a lot to explain to somebody. Yes, it's
a lot to get into. At the water cooler. Yeah, yeah,
well we only.

Speaker 4 (58:56):
Have a fifteen minute break. Well why would they do that. Well,
he's wiring, but wrestling's fake.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
Well yeah, it is a lot to get into. But anyway,
the point being, I'm really glad they at least tried it, because,
no matter how you feel about it, that's one of
those awesome moments that we're all gonna remember for the
rest of our lives.

Speaker 4 (59:19):
You know, when he told the kid, we're in a
toxic relationship.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Oh my god, Yes, I loved that. But I even
loved I even loved just the subtle things, like I said,
because he underplayed it, just the things like, oh you
know what I loved was that backstage promo where he
encounters Jay Uso and he just just totally deadpan just
says to him, you know, if you lose to Logan Paul,

(59:47):
that would almost ruin wrestling, just the way that he
delivered the lie. It was so deadpan, like I know,
and people were like, I heard Brian Alvarez saying what
he's talking like a robot, does not even any emotion there.
It's like, dude, don't you get it. That's the thing
he's he's he's under playing it. And it's awesome.

Speaker 4 (01:00:08):
Getting the hustle, loyalty, respect, John Cena, We're getting Sina.
He's going through the motions. He's just giving us just
enough because that's all he has to do.

Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
Yeah. Yeah, I loved it, But but again I'm in
the minority.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
To it is to have his first promo why happened
at an international show.

Speaker 1 (01:00:36):
Yeah, I think that kind of killed it too.

Speaker 4 (01:00:40):
I think that that should have been saved for really
big ww market like New York City, somewhere in the
Upper East Coast, or like a wrestling town like Chicago
or uh, you know, even Dallas Fort Worth area could
have done.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
I also, and we talked about this before too, I
also would have tweaked that a little bit too, because
I wouldn't have I think they should have waited. What
I think they should have. I think he should have
maintained being a heel going into that match with Cody,
and then after losing the title to Cody, then maybe
turned babyface by you know, raising Cody's hand and being cool,
and then the next night do a promo where instead

(01:01:25):
of saying because I didn't like when he I didn't
like when he turned back and he said, you know,
I let somebody, he made an obvious reference to the Rock,
which was cool, you know, I believed in somebody who
abandoned me or however he said it, and then he
but then he said something about they talked me into
making shocking television. Because then it was almost like he's
coming out and saying, you know, I just did this

(01:01:45):
to make good TV, which is kind of borderline breaking,
k fabe. He could have said something like he could
have been a little more vulnerable, and he did show
some vulnerability saying I was afraid you would all forget
about me and this and that. But what he should
have said something, I think something like I felt like
I had to do this, like I had to be bad.
I had to cheat to get because I was so

(01:02:07):
obsessed with with with you know, winning this title one
more time when he getting to seventeen, I was so
obsessed with it. I let that take me over, and
I realized I was wrong now and I'm sorry. Something
like that would have been better, like.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
The whole good TV line.

Speaker 4 (01:02:23):
Because keep in mind, around the time he said that
was when the controversy regarding untold had occurred. Oh unreal, Yes,
when that controversy really started kicking out. So I think
the line there, but I get I see your issue

(01:02:45):
with it. It was kind of like I never thought
John Cena would be a sellout. That's almost kind of
a detriment. Yeah, Like, I'm cool with you saying you
were tempted by winning seventeen you didn't think you could
do it without hell YadA, YadA, YadA, yah YadA. But
then when you went to that line, I get it.

(01:03:05):
It's like, oh, so Johnsen is a sellout? Are there
are there ever any real heroes anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Oh? I guess not. It's the end of the Night
of the Living Dead.

Speaker 3 (01:03:15):
Right, Oh so I have a question. Uh, And if
you don't want to speak for him, I get it,
but I'll ask you, uh, how what about Austin? How
does how did he feel about it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
It? I'm pretty sure, yeah, you liked it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:36):
I think he got kind of tired of it, yeah
the midway point, like okay, yeah, but.

Speaker 7 (01:03:48):
Look, I'm even.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Fought similarities between Austin and I a lot of them.
When Brack turned.

Speaker 6 (01:03:59):
I didn't turn on Brett right, of course, I like
wanted to wear clothes with the Canadian flag on it
in school.

Speaker 1 (01:04:11):
Always when I.

Speaker 7 (01:04:12):
Was in uh eighth grade, telling him it sucks yeah,
and copying Brett Hart's statements from wrong about why America
sucks from the.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
United States of America. I stick it right here in
Taft Middle School.

Speaker 4 (01:04:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:37):
Wow, Yeah, I loved it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
I loved it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:44):
I was upset that we didn't get Heart Foundation shirts. Yeah,
you know, Brett, I loved every minute of it. And
I thought, and I think a lot of it because
to me, it made sense.

Speaker 1 (01:05:01):
It's like, you're booing this guy. Why are you booing?
In You're booing.

Speaker 4 (01:05:06):
Because any heel turn also has to resonate in reality.

Speaker 3 (01:05:12):
Yeah, it has to. There has to be a logic
to it. It can't just be it can't just be oh,
this person is evil all of a sudden, right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
You can't.

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
People can't sit here and say, oh, well, you can't
just do it. People heard the booze for Brett people
Brett become kind of a cry baby.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
So it made sense.

Speaker 4 (01:05:38):
But you could also argue, but Brett is getting screwed constantly.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Yeah, like me, why he's mad? How dare you boo
this man? The injustice is being done to him?

Speaker 3 (01:05:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (01:05:53):
Yeah, so yeah, if you are a true Brett Haun fan,
you definitely were well ride in that wave.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
In some ways, Brett was ahead of his time or
and that that whole storyline was ahead of its time
in the sense that, you know, because we've talked about
how you know, I've to me personally like we're in
the golden age of wrestling right now, because we see
a level of nuance with characters, uh and and their
stories and that we have not seen very much before

(01:06:26):
now in my opinion, but I feel like that was
a that was like a precursor to all of that
because Brett Hart had become he was never one dimensional,
but now he was this really nuanced character where yeah,
you know, he's a heel, but you could definitely be
sympathetic and see that he has a point. And they
did this innovative thing, of course, where he's a heel

(01:06:48):
in the United States, but he's still the hero everywhere else,
not only in Canada but internationally, so so that was
really innovative too. And and he was absolutely fantastic through
all of it. I mean his promos, those were the
best promos of his career, I think, just fantastic.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
America, they say loving or leave it, Well, I'm loving
leaving it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Oh yeah, all of it was so good. All of
it was so good.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
In Canada, we care about family values. Brett. Three years ago,
you were bashing your brother's face into his steel cage.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Right, No, everything about it was. Everything about it was great.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
That's my favorite heel turn is because I didn't think
it was amazing. I think, uh, another one I loved.

Speaker 1 (01:07:52):
He wasn't really a heel turn. It was more of
a tweener dang sting when they thought he was going
to defect to the nWo.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
Well yeah, I mean but he never actually.

Speaker 4 (01:08:09):
But it was a tweener promo and I loved it
because and then.

Speaker 1 (01:08:13):
They then he didn't see him for like six months.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
And it was how they did that was awesome.

Speaker 3 (01:08:23):
Yes, and very good, the entire build.

Speaker 4 (01:08:27):
Up, because even going into Starcade, I'm sure you remember this,
there was a little undercurrent what if he really is
a member of the nWo and this is all boy
by Hogan is like they do for stages, lays down
for Hogan. How ironic that that would end up being

(01:08:50):
the final male inn w CW's coffin somebody laid down
for Hogan.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
A couple three years later.

Speaker 4 (01:09:03):
Yeah, so yeah, that's that was I love the tweeen sting.

Speaker 3 (01:09:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, that's another great example too, where they
were able to really present a character in a nuanced
way and in a complex way and not just one dimensional. Yeah, yeah,
that's a that's a great example. Any other notable US
heel turns we haven't talked about. I mean, I feel

(01:09:33):
like we've talked about the biggest ones.

Speaker 4 (01:09:35):
But yes, yeah, I'm trying to think we talked about
andre one one that never just it just went over
like the Titanic hitting an iceberg stone cold Steve Austin.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
Yeah, that one's complicated too, though, example of when it
does it work, never should have done it. I agree
with you, except for one thing. You know how, when
I talked like I talked about Sina, I talked about
some of what we would have been deprived of, deprived

(01:10:15):
of if we didn't get the turn. So with Austin,
if we hadn't gotten that turn, we would have been
deprived of things like oh, I'll tell you one of
Jenny's favorite promos that she stumbled upon YouTube one day,
the promo where they're they're doing the uh, you know,
the invasion storyline and and Vince's backstage and he's talking

(01:10:36):
like you know that, guys, guys, this is an invasion,
and Austin goes invasion and Fitz is like, we got
to support each other, and Austin's like support each other
and it's so funny.

Speaker 4 (01:10:47):
Undertaker the whole time is biting his lower lip because
he's trying.

Speaker 3 (01:10:54):
So that's the thing, is like, yeah, I agree with you.
The turn was terrible, but we we would have missed
out because Austin turns out.

Speaker 4 (01:11:05):
That is some of my favorite theme music is a
lion Stone Cold Steve Austin theme music.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
Yeah, yeah, that was good too. That was good. But
but he did like some of the stuff he was
doing with Kurt Angle. I mean, he he really Austin
got to really kind of show off his comedic chops.
What's that? Oh the hell? Yeah, Yeah, there's a lot
of so, you know, people people should on the Austin turn.

(01:11:33):
And I do think in the broad sense, it was
a bad idea, but we did get some good stuff
out of that, We really did, So.

Speaker 4 (01:11:43):
I just think that I think there was probably a
better way they could have done it. I don't think
they needed events for it happened. I think could have
just had Austin just beat the hell out of the
Lock and Room over in that match. Yeah, I think

(01:12:05):
that's one way.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
But if you don't have Vince, then you don't.

Speaker 4 (01:12:10):
I think it went off the rails when Triple H
blew his squad out m I think had Triple H
not gotten injured, you could have salvaged it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
And that's one of the.

Speaker 4 (01:12:25):
Biggest what its ever in pro wrestling history, because what
if Triple H would have been part of the invasion Angle?

Speaker 1 (01:12:32):
What what it?

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
I mean, if Triple H would have been involved, you
might argue they could have gotten haul In Hatch right
in Sean Michaels and done something or you could have
had a third group. You could have had the Click
come back and say hey, we're back right right.

Speaker 3 (01:12:59):
Yeah. Also, it's interesting with the Austin heel turn. You know,
there's the inevitable face turn, and I honestly don't even
remember how the face turn happened. I cannot all I
can recall, so obviously it wasn't very memorable. All I

(01:13:20):
can really remember is it almost was like like like
a gradual sort of they just sort of phased him
back into being a babyface after a while. I don't
even remember anything particular about it.

Speaker 4 (01:13:34):
How it happened is they had that Winner Take All
It Survivor series. Okay, they had Kurt Angle turn on
the Alliance to cost them the match. Okay, they had
Angle over Austin in the rock pinned Austin and it okay.

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
So then the next night is.

Speaker 4 (01:13:58):
When Rick Flair returned and because Vince was just gonna
give Kurt Angle the WWF championship, and uh where Claire's like, no,
I'm a co owner with you because kids sold their
stock to me. I remember that, I'm rehiring stone Cold.
Then you're gonna face stone Cold for that title? Okay,

(01:14:22):
and that got him back over and then you know, about.

Speaker 1 (01:14:26):
Six months later, stone Cold walked out.

Speaker 3 (01:14:29):
Oh yes, yep, yep. You know. It's funny when I
think about Flair in that whole Angle. Flair comes in
and supposedly he's co owner, and all I remember about
that is I remember, like, I remember Flair coming in.
I remember it was a big moment, and I remember
Vince pulling his ear like Carol Burnett used to do

(01:14:50):
when he was upset when Rick Flair came out and
h and I remember Flair saying something to him like that,
Remember when you're kids sold their stock to a consortium, Well,
the consortium is me, and now I'm your good. You know,
it was all very confluted. But that's all I remember.
I don't even remember the Stone Cold part of that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:12):
Yeah, it was. And then at Vengeance they had a
four million tournament. Rock took on Chris Jericho for the
big gold bell, Stone Cold took on Kurt Angle for
the WWF title. The winners advanced, Stone Cold took on

(01:15:33):
Chris Jericho for the undisputed WWF Championship.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
Yeah, and Uo screwed over Stone Cold.

Speaker 3 (01:15:43):
That okay, that I remember now, Yeah, yep.

Speaker 4 (01:15:47):
Then that began the downfall because instead of putting Austin
with Hogan, they put him with Hall.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
Yeah, yep, oh I just thought of a heel turned.
I can't believe I didn't think of this one till
just now, because it involves my favorite wrestler of all time,
Macho Man, Randy Savage. Even though it was predictable, the
mega power is exploding, but it was still great. I

(01:16:18):
loved it. I loved that that whole thing, Hogan versus
Macho Man.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
I gave two.

Speaker 4 (01:16:26):
The promos, the promos we got out of Macho Man
were just amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:32):
Yes, oh yeah, oh Cogan, I hate your goods. Those
promos are incredible, Yeah, lost in your eyes. Yeah, especially
that last.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
It's to my right, no Puka Maniacs to my left, Yes,
and everyone of them. He was just busting sweat or
You're Like.

Speaker 3 (01:17:04):
And the very last promo, the very last promo that
ared on television right before He's Like it was it
was him at his absolute most intense, like.

Speaker 1 (01:17:17):
Old Googan, I hate your guts.

Speaker 3 (01:17:20):
Yeah, oh so good, so good. And Hogan, you know,
to give him credit, I mean, he played his role
well and all that too, Macho Man was just untouchable.

Speaker 1 (01:17:31):
So good.

Speaker 4 (01:17:32):
I I'm a minority I and we've talked about this
in our Macho Man episode.

Speaker 1 (01:17:41):
Yeah, Macho Man should have went over.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
Oh, I would have loved that. Well, he was my favorite,
so I wanted him to anyway, but I knew that
he wouldn't. But I would have loved if he had.

Speaker 4 (01:17:53):
It would have made perfect sense. You have n't dropped
the elbows. But at that time they were thinking not
just of WrestleMania five, but WrestleMania six and we can
you're Hogan.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
Yeah, well, also, I mean at that time, it was
unthinkable for the heel to go over in the main
event of WrestleMania. You know what I mean. I mean
that didn't happen till Triple H. Triple H was the
first heel to go over in a main event at WrestleMania.
And I remember even when that happened. Which one was
that because I get confused on the numbers, but.

Speaker 4 (01:18:33):
You could argue nine was the first one where a
heel went over.

Speaker 3 (01:18:39):
Was that the one? I'm thinking, Wait, who went over
and beat Brett? Oh Stone called Beet Brett. No, I'm
talking about in the main event though.

Speaker 4 (01:18:51):
At WrestleMania nine at Caesar's Palace, Yoko Zuna beat Brett
Hart for the w WFGH.

Speaker 3 (01:18:59):
I'm sorry, Eric, your my cutout a little bit. I
thought I thought you said when uh, I thought you
said something else. Oh yeah, yeah, well yeah, but that
doesn't But but you still have Hogan come out and.

Speaker 1 (01:19:12):
Still happy and over in the main event.

Speaker 3 (01:19:15):
Well that's true, that's true. But you know what I mean,
when the when the final when the final image of
the show is a heel victorious. I mean Triple H
was the first one. Oh it was WrestleMania two thousand,
wasn't it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:34):
I'm trying to think because I I watched every WrestleMania. Yeah,
so I'm trying to think back nine ten, Brett eleven,
uh bam eleven was Lawrence Taylor because a Lawrence Taylor

(01:19:54):
was in the main event that year. Yeah, well, twelve
was Sean, thirteen was Sid No. Thirteen Sid was the
heel No. Thirteen Taker one, Yeah h super beats fourteen

(01:20:16):
Austin fifteen Austin two thousand, Triple.

Speaker 3 (01:20:20):
H Yeah, yep, yep, in that fatal four way because
I was and I remember being very surprised I remember
watching it live with a friend and we were very surprised.
It was like, wow, the bad guy won.

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
He said. Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:20:36):
Going into it, I said, either Triple H is gonna
win or Mick Fully.

Speaker 1 (01:20:40):
Oh really yeah, Fully drop it the next night, m.

Speaker 4 (01:20:48):
But when Fully was the first one eliminated, I'm like, Okay, this.

Speaker 1 (01:20:54):
Is where we're going. Since Triple H was a white.

Speaker 3 (01:20:59):
Was oh, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4 (01:21:03):
I think you could have argued you couldn't have went
wrong going with the Rock there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
I think the greater crime was it being a fatal
four way.

Speaker 3 (01:21:16):
Yeah. I wasn't a big fan of that.

Speaker 4 (01:21:19):
McMahon in every corner too, No, I think it should
what it was overkill.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Was I think you just have it the Triple.

Speaker 4 (01:21:32):
H in the Rock, and because that then I think
you could argue you have Rock go over was moreover
In the next month anyway, you had the Rock win,
and then the month for that you had Triple H

(01:21:52):
win in the in one of the Skyron Man matches
outside of Breton Sean.

Speaker 3 (01:22:00):
Yeah, yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:22:04):
The Iron Man match between Triple H and The Rock
does not get talked about enough.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
Is like a wrestling yeah, uh.

Speaker 3 (01:22:14):
So much so that I kind of forgot that it
even happened until you mentioned it just now. But you're right, Yeah,
nobody ever talks about that one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
You're right. Shawn Michaels was the special guest referee.

Speaker 3 (01:22:25):
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Nobody ever mentions that one. Nobody
thinks about it. It's interesting.

Speaker 4 (01:22:30):
Yeah, big things happened in that. That was Sean's last
appearance until two thousand and one. Undertaker returned as the
American Badass. Yeah, and then in June at King of
the Ring, the Rock pin Shane McMahon to become WWF champion.

(01:22:52):
H's a mess, And I think you avoid all of
that if you just would have done Rock Triple H
WrestleMania two thousand, Rock goes over and then you can
do it. Then at Summer Slam you can have Triple

(01:23:13):
H beat him, Wrangle beat him.

Speaker 3 (01:23:15):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:23:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:23:18):
Oh, by the way, you mentioned the Undertaker. There's there's
another heel turn that I felt was a failure was.

Speaker 9 (01:23:24):
When uh, when Uh McMahon wanted Jim Ross to kiss
his ass to enter the Kiss Kiss My Ass Club
and and he didn't want to do it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:35):
The darkness and I'm like, no, ministry a darkness Undertaker
was amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:44):
Yeah, no, I liked that, but but I didn't like
when when as the American badass, he turns on Jim
Ross and and uh and aligns with Vince and that
was it was very weak. And I thought at that
point in Taker's career, I was like, why do you
want to make him a heel now? Because at that
point I felt like he had reached that point where

(01:24:05):
the fans really didn't want to boo him. And I
think I was right. I don't think the fans ever
really did want to boo Undertaker at that point. And
I don't think that that particular heel run was effective,
and I don't think it lasted that long either. I
mean a little bit, but I remember, I remember he
started to turn, although his face turn back was somewhat gradual.

(01:24:26):
But I remember he had the match with Jeff Hardy
where he ended up showing respect to him at the end.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
What's that shook his hand?

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
Yeah yeah, and that was like, oh, Taker, he's it
looks like he's going to be turning babyface and then
he did. And but yeah, that particular heel turn I
didn't think was effective at all. And I was like ah,
what are you doing that with taker for? At this point?
You know, that's how I felt about it, but any
we didn't mention that you want to. It's funny. I
keep remembering ones that we forgot, but I don't know

(01:24:56):
if there's any others.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
That you have thumbed it up.

Speaker 3 (01:25:00):
Yeah, yeah, oh yeah, And we've been on for about
an hour and a half too, so this is probably
a good Uh so what are we?

Speaker 7 (01:25:08):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:25:08):
Should we talk about what we're doing next week?

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
We're gonna have fun next week in honor of it
being in honor of Halloween passing. Yes, we are at
one of the most infamous cards in WCW history, Halloween
Havoc nineteen ninety one. Uh yeah, the Chamber of Hornes match, Yes,

(01:25:40):
with al Gionte Sting in the Steiners debating Big Van
Vader Cactus Jack Abdullah the Butcher in the Diamond stud.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
How can you go wrong? Oh, by the way, it's
being of Halloween Havoc. Jenny and I just watched Dinxt's
Halloween Havoc. It was quite good. Did you watch it?

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
We have not. I usually watched, though, I'll watch that
tomorrow during the day. But great things.

Speaker 3 (01:26:08):
Yeah, it was. It was very good, and it's t events,
so they're almost always really good. Sometimes I think they're
better than the main roster.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
But talk about such great matches as the Halloween Phantom
defeating Tom Zinc.

Speaker 3 (01:26:28):
I don't even remember the Halloween Phantom.

Speaker 4 (01:26:31):
Lex Luger defeating Ron Simmons in a two out of
three falls match for the w CW World Championship.

Speaker 3 (01:26:40):
Oh wow, okay, Bill kaz Meyer, I remember.

Speaker 6 (01:26:47):
Him defeating Oz Oh god, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:53):
For Kevin.

Speaker 1 (01:26:57):
Badfeating Jimmy Garvin.

Speaker 3 (01:27:00):
Oh, Jimmy Garvin? Does he do the Garvin stomp in
that match? My favorite finishing move? I'm kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:27:08):
What's that Ronnie Garvin that did the Garvin stomp?

Speaker 3 (01:27:12):
Oh? You said, Jimmy Garvin? Didn't you the free bird? Sorry? Yes? Yes?
Was he wearing his feather boa Jimmy Garvin?

Speaker 1 (01:27:22):
Yes, I'm sure he does.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
I hope so.

Speaker 4 (01:27:24):
And then Josh and PN News defeat.

Speaker 1 (01:27:29):
The Creatures.

Speaker 3 (01:27:31):
Big Josh and PN News I remember them both, but
uh boy, they kind of faded away. Huh.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
PN staded away because refused to do a job.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
Oh, I think you've talked about that before. Yeah, And
whatever happened a big Josh. They he got a pretty
big push for a while.

Speaker 4 (01:27:48):
Did get a pretty big push in early nineties w
C w L Jagant.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
He wrestled for.

Speaker 4 (01:27:55):
The WC title of class in the Champions Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
I guess it was Slim Pickens. All right, that makes sense. Then, yeah,
Big Josh, he carried a hatchet, didn't he did? He
carry a hatchet with him? He was a woodsman.

Speaker 1 (01:28:12):
About that next week?

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
Yeah, yeah, Big Josh.

Speaker 1 (01:28:18):
Scratch that.

Speaker 4 (01:28:20):
I'm gonna do something interesting, Matt, if you're willing to.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
Put it up for a vote.

Speaker 4 (01:28:26):
Okay, Now they're either Halloween Havoc nineteen ninety one. Okay,
there's some bad Halloween havocs.

Speaker 3 (01:28:36):
Yeah, which one?

Speaker 4 (01:28:38):
Halloween Havoc nineteen ninety two, the first under Eric Bischoff,
Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal?

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
I did.

Speaker 3 (01:28:51):
I did enjoy the promos.

Speaker 4 (01:28:55):
Ring the infamous coal miners, Glove, Matt, Make Roberts, and Sting.

Speaker 3 (01:29:04):
I did enjoy the cinematic promos that they did for that,
as cheesy as they were. The Sting walks into that
bar or whatever the hell it was, and oh and
they're all they all start chanting spin the Wheel, make
the Deal and it's so bad. It was so bad.
It was good.

Speaker 4 (01:29:21):
And you have the opening match, the babyface team of
Johnny Gunn, Johnny As, Shane Douglass and Tom Zinc defeat Arnanderson.

Speaker 1 (01:29:35):
Bobby Heat and Michael Hayes. Book the Faces get booed.
Oh they do because they're in Philadelphia.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
Okay, all right, that sounds interesting. So you want me
to put up a pole. I could put up a pole.

Speaker 8 (01:29:53):
I could put it, Yes, Bubber Halloween Havoc nineteen eighty
nine with the Chamber Bors or ninety two with Spin
the Wheel.

Speaker 3 (01:30:04):
Okay, so eighty nine or ninety two. Okay, yeah, I'll
put up I'll do that tonight. I'll put up a poll. Well,
we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Both are just equally bad.

Speaker 3 (01:30:17):
Wow. Do you know if this man wasn't either of them.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
I think he might have been on some dark matches.

Speaker 3 (01:30:25):
Probably probably well excellent, well, very good, very good. So
I think this has been great Episode twenty in the books,
we'll we'll get thank you to everyone who watched the
show live if you were streaming, and of course uh
to everyone who you know. Most of our listeners of course,
will get it in the podcast form. On your podcasting
platform of choice, or you can always go to Matt

(01:30:47):
connorton dot com and find it there. And Eric, where
can people find you?

Speaker 4 (01:30:51):
They can find me on TikTok E dash Rich three
one nine. They can find me on Instagram. E Pilcher
six one seven. Uh they I'm not Twitter there three
one nine.

Speaker 3 (01:31:06):
Very good, very good. Well, all right, so we will
see you next week. Eric, thanks everybody, and.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Uh, Rocky does not have a social media preference.

Speaker 3 (01:31:17):
Rocky does not, Okay, he does that. He's very private.

Speaker 4 (01:31:24):
Yeah, yes, although he is. His calendar is being released shortly.

Speaker 3 (01:31:30):
Oh good, oh yes, excellent, well, very good, yes till June. Excellent.
Well we look forward to that, all right, excellent, all right, Eric,
thank you and thanks everybody. And this has been episode
twenty of Tough Bumps. And uh, don't forget to look
for that pole and we'll talk to you a little
bit later. Bye, everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
We take who was again? Grant?

Speaker 4 (01:32:01):
It's how we begin, mac Any every Father up the
thing

Speaker 1 (01:32:06):
Wrestle little lens on the Tough Boss name