Tough Bumps episode 24: War Games, Bret Hart's Wild Claims About Vince and Shawn

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everybody, welcome. In his episode twenty four of Tough Bumps.
My name is Matt Connerton, and of course my partner
in crime and this adventure, this venture I usually say venture.
It came out adventure that too. Of course, Eric Pilcher
all the way from the great State of Iowa. Hello, Eric, Hello, Matt.
How are you good? I think I think we're streaming

(00:24):
to I'm trying to figure out if we're streaming to
Facebook right now as well.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
If you went live.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Yeah, oh we are. It's working. Oh yes, I see it.
It is working. So for those who don't know, the
reason that's a big deal is because I was unable
recently to stream to Facebook. Facebook had restricted my live
streaming access for no apparent reason other than I did

(00:53):
something wrong, violated something. And of course they don't like
to tell you. These social media companies like to keep
you in the dark, which is very strong because if
someone does something that is a problem, you usually want
to tell them logically what it is so they don't
do it again. But these social media companies like Facebook
and YouTube, they like to just tell you did something

(01:13):
wrong and now we're putting restrictions on you without actually
telling you what the infract was, which makes it very
difficult to avoid such infraction repeating that in the future.
But here we are. It is letting us stream to Facebook.
So I guess, I guess we're back. Ah, not that
we ever went away, but you know what.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, well stick it Facebook.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
That's right, Zuckerberg. Ahh, anyway, we showed him. That's right.
Episode twenty four. If you are watching the stream live,
it is Tuesday November twenty fourth, twenty twenty five, four
fifteen pm in the Eastern time zone. And everyone who's
getting the podcast after the fact, I welcome to you
as well, which is how most people consume the show anyway.

(01:58):
But please subscribe on your podcast platform of choice, or
if you're doing this watching via YouTube, please like and subscribe. Yes,
you'd appreciate that tremendously. And Eric, you have some news.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
I have news, as you can see below my name.
If you are watching live, there is now a web
address www. Dot pilcherspoint dot com. This is where you
can go for blogging where I will be blogging about

(02:34):
a bevy of topics, whether it be political, sports, popular culture, music, movies,
what have you. Whatever enters my head and I'm like,
I could write about five hundred to seven hundred and
fifty words on that.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
And all my social media handles are now Pilcher's point.
Oh good good, Oh, it's all encompassing. If you want
to find me on TikTok x or Instagram, Pilcher's point
all one.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Word outstanding, outstanding.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
Or www dot pilcherspoint dot com. Working on getting all
the classic film reviews on there and housed. That is
a daunting endeavor. There is over one hundred episodes of it. Yes,
and figuring out how to do it.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
Yeah, it's funny. So on Uh, when I look at
my website analytics formatt connorton dot com, I can see
the ones that you've downloaded.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
I usually just link them to the YouTube.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
So that way, you know, they get you. You get
some runoff here, you get the hits on YouTube.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:01):
So in that and you do a good job of
adding image an image to it that ties in, that
gives someone something to look at.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I try, I try. I'm better at it than I
used to be. But uh yeah, so that's great. Well,
congratulations on that, pilchrespoint dot com.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yes, uh, there will be a blog posted either today
or tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Regarding controversy in the college football.

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Playoff, Ah, yes, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I was shocked you said, oh, yes.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
The controversy.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Yes, Matt, you have no idea.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
That's true. I have no idea. I told you I
don't even know how many.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
And you'll have an idea.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Mm hm the uh, the information will not be retained
in my brain. I won't have an idea.

Speaker 2 (04:58):
Then that's unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I'll be closer to having an idea, but the idea,
the actual idea, will continue to elude me.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
I see. Yes, we could be more news coming down
the pipe soon with me.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Did you say pipe, pipe, pike? Whatever I say pike,
I think pipe is not the correct I always thought
it was pipe. I believe it's pike coming down the pike.
I think it's one of those things everyone just says, time.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
In, go ahead and let us know which one it is.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
I'm a stickler for this kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
No one, and just throw it out there.

Speaker 1 (05:41):
What is it like?

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Which one of us is saying it wrong?

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Trust me it's pike, Sure it's pike. No, but no
congratulations on that though. That is very very cool and uh.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
It is we have a nice, fancy new logo. Yes,
my friend Marcel who does amazing work with logos graphic design.
Anyone interested, I can put you in touch with him.
He did the Classic Film Reviews logo. He did did

(06:15):
the Pilcher's Point logo.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
I'm going to see if I can pull that up
so people who are watching the live feed can see it,
or they can just go to pilcherspoint dot com. But
if they want to, just because I do like the logo,
you had sent it to me and you know, I
commented to you that it commented to you that it's
very simple and clean.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
And really that's how a logo needs to be.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
Yeah, we over.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Overanalyze logos.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
Yeah, I think that. Uh sometimes you know, they logos
can be more complicated. Well, you know it's funny.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
A logo that was in the news recently was cracker Barrel.
Now this has given me trouble. Why am I having
trouble getting to the logo? Oh because it's still downloading.
Oh it's taken a minute to download here. But uh yeah,
you know, like the whole thing with the Cracker Barrel
logo was was really funny. I don't know why this

(07:21):
is taken so damn long. It's weird, but it's it's
down to about ten seconds, and we'll have the logo.
I can pop it up on the stream. But yeah, logos.
It reminds me of the Matt Connorton hypnosis logo in
that it's it's you know, simple and clean, but but
also very clear in terms of what it is, what

(07:42):
it's supposed to be. Okay, I have it. Now, let's
get that up here on the screen for everybody to see.
What is going on here? Wait, let me see if
is this it? Nope, that's not it.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Ah, well that's me at Notre Dame Matt. I think

(08:23):
we lost man. Everyone. Oh hey, I was just getting
ready to message you.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
That was strange. That was strange.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
That was everyone. If you want to look at the logo,
go to the website.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
Yeah, go to Pilcher'spoint dot com. I'm having trouble with.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
It path less resistance here.

Speaker 1 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, go to Pilcher'spoint dot com. All right, very good,
very good. Well now that we'll just leave that debacle
behind us. Sorry about that, everybody. Well, should we get
to the news. We got a couple of news items,
and then of course in the undergrod on the main.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Event, he had a couple news things.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Well, should we start with this, I definitely have a
picture for oh boy, So we start with bretettheart's No
one wants.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
A picture of what this is about. No one wants
to even visualize what this is about.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
No, that's true. Uh, Brett Hart your favorite wrestler of
all time. My my number two, he is my second
favorite of all time. But he in fact recently did
a an interview where he made a claim.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
It was a he's doing like a tour of England
like Q and A sessions. Okay, and that's when he
said this allegation.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
Yes, Now do you have the text of what he said?

Speaker 2 (10:06):
He yes, this is from russell zone dot com.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Basically, uh, he said the issues between him, Michaels, and
McMahon went far beyond normal backstage politics. He suggested that
he was caught between two lovers at the time and
believed Michael used his alleged relationship with McMahon to rise
to the top. I think that Shawn and Vince were

(10:35):
sleeping with each other. I'm just telling you, I think
I'm very close to the truth here, Shawn and Vince
were lovers. I'm being dead honest. When I look back,
it's like I got caught between two lovers and I
got shafted and screwed over, and Sean was so envious
and jealous of my position that he finally had to
sleep with Vince to get it. I would say to Sean,

(10:58):
if he were right here, I would actually like to
have Sean come clean and say, look, we were lovers,
because I'm sure they were. If I saw either Vince
or Shawan here, I would say, I think you guys
were lovers.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
He really uh, he really goes out of his way
to uh, I don't. It's actually comical to me, Like
and Brett. I don't know if he's trying to be
at all funny, but one of the things Brett is
known for not necessarily known to casual fans, but people

(11:35):
who have been around him will say that Brett is
known for having a very kind of a dry sense
of humor. And I'm not saying he's kidding here. I
think he's serious, but I do think it's funny the
way he keeps doing the way he says. You know,
if Brett and Sean were here right now, I would
say I would say to them, I think you were lovers,
Like that's just funny to me.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
But I do not think this was said in jest.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
No, no, no, I don't think he was kidding. I just
think it's but I do think he's adding a little
bit of humor of the way he just so, the
way he just deadpans at you know, if they were
here today, I would tell them, I think you guys
were lovers. I just think that's funny.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Here's my here's where I'm at. And look, everyone, everyone
knows I'm huge Brett Heart fan. Yeah heart, Yeah, really
love Brett Hart's work. Yes, Brett, please stop. This is

(12:36):
getting rediculous. Look, we can sit here and make jokes
about it, and there's plenty of jokes we could make,
believe me, But at the end of the day, to me,
this is Brett Hart trying to hang on to some
visage of controversy surrounding Vince McMahon's sexual proclivities, and because

(13:02):
of that, I think it's very very, very very disturbing
that this is the route he has decided.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
To go down.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
I don't see what the endgame is for Brett here
because look, you made amends with Sean. I thought that
was the whole point of you coming back in two
thousand and nine was to make amends with Sean, and

(13:33):
to an extent, hatchet was buried. Yeah, and then you
turn around and say something like this, I've defended Brett
with the Goldberg hatred, with the Triple H bashing, which
I kind of gave a reason for, but said, I

(13:53):
don't get it.

Speaker 1 (13:54):
Yeah, same, Yeah, I agree with.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
I understand it, but I don't like it. This. This
is pathetic that this is there's no other way to
put it. You like, imagine being Shawn Michael's children and

(14:19):
seeing imagine being Shawn's wife.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
And seeing this.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
Yeah, it's very hypocritical of Brett. Hard to do this
because if you recall, he was very his One of
his major issues was the Sunny Days comment Shawn and
his what having to go home and explain to his wife.
Never mind the fact that Brett was anything but faithful

(14:47):
to his wife Julie. He admitted as much in his biography.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Oh yeah, yeah, he talks about that, yeah, owns.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
Yeah. But at the end, So I always thought it
was kind of weird that that angered him because it's
like you're cheating on your wife anyway.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, But then to be to be effectively called out,
even even if he wasn't actually sleeping with Sunny, to
be called out for it on live on national television,
which he apparently didn't realize in real time it was happening,
Like he didn't even quite catch it, he said, until
later when he realized what Sean had actually said. Like,
at first, it kind of went over his head. I
guess when that happened live, I think it went over

(15:30):
everyone's head, Yeah, because nobody knew. Like I remember being like,
huh is he talking about I remember watching that live
on television, being like, is he talking about Psyche?

Speaker 2 (15:40):
I think that was a large portion of the audience
was really just like.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Huh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
What Sunny Days got to do with anything?

Speaker 1 (15:50):
And she denies it, she said her.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
She said her and Bratt kissed once, and she laughed
because it was like kissing her dad. Yeah, which if
you've had intimate kisses with your father, that's probably another
subject for another day.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Not I can honestly say I have not with my dad.

Speaker 2 (16:15):
I have not either.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
Now then against you know, I love my dad, but no,
I mean I'm ambivalent. Yeah, I mean, I just, uh,
what do you mean you you want to kiss my dad?

Speaker 2 (16:28):
No, I'm ambivalent to my father.

Speaker 1 (16:30):
So oh, I understand. So you would kiss him maybe.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
Well he's dead, so if I kiss him now, that
would be like necrophilia.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
Yeah, that'd be pretty gross.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
That'd be that'd be out there.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
That even more gross if he was alive, you.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Were alive, I probably wouldn't. Yeah there, Yeah, there isn't
anything there.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Yeah, all right, but moving on.

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yes, like this is just inge. That's the best way
to describe it. And at the end of the day,
it hurts Brett's legacy. I don't think these old time
wrestlers understand that when you say these ridiculous things and

(17:17):
shoot interviews or Q and a's or the other things
anything like that, you're hurting yourself. You're not hurting the
people you're intending to hurt. And I don't know why
he would want.

Speaker 1 (17:31):
To hurt Sean, but there's there's always been this thing,
even after they reconciled, but he would take he would
still take shots at him.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
I don't get it. I don't understand it.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
I mean nothing to this extent, but he would still
take shots at him, and and over time, it's like
the whole afterglow of of the uh, forgive me freezing
that term, but of of their reconciling seems to have
worn off little by little over time from from Brett's
side at least, where you know, he's gradually been taking

(18:08):
more and more potshots at Sean when the subject comes up,
and then uh, eventually to the point where well, now
he's saying this, it really.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Is and it's sad. It is so sad. I agree
on so many levels, like Brett could probably I'm not
gonna speak for Brett because I'm not Brett, but Brett
could theoretically do a tour just based off stories he has.

(18:42):
He doesn't mean to say these things. No, and I
give this little to no credit at all.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah, I don't.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
I don't. I look at this and.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Give no credence.

Speaker 2 (18:58):
I mean you don't, Yeah, none, Like this is the
most ridiculous thing I have ever heard in my life. Yeah,
for all intents and purposes, we've never heard of Sean
having relations with the guy. And I'm pretty sure, Shawn Michaels,

(19:20):
there's enough people from the Attitude era that have an
Extra Grind with Sean Michaels that something were to have
happened like this, it would have come out.

Speaker 1 (19:31):
However, to be fair, Brett is not the first person
ever say this. Who was the other one, one of
the Road Warriors. I don't remember if it was Hawker,
Animal had said something about this.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Before, yeah, I mean, if it was Hawk, yeah, that's reliable.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
I'm just saying this is not Brett's not the first
ever say it. I get I don't think it's true,
but I don't. I'm just like.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
If he would have said, if he would have said
like x PAC, I would have been like, I can
see it, no offense to x poc at all, but
x Pock's a crazy guy, you know. He would have
been like, do your own thing. I guess I you know.

Speaker 1 (20:25):
So I think I'm gonna I'm gonna play pop psychologists here.
I think that Brett. I think where this really comes
from is I think that Brett is on some level
jealous of the because from from by by most accounts,

(20:47):
you know, Vince McMahon took on very much a paternal
role in the lives and careers, but not not just
the you know, the careers, but but really in the
lives of both Sean and Brett. And I think if
we think of it this way, so Vince is the
father figure, Brett and Sean are the brothers, and Brett

(21:12):
is jealous that Dad loved Sean more than him. Dad
loved them both, but Dad loved Sean a little bit
more because Dad was willing to put up with more
with a lot of Sean's shit. And granted, Shawn behaved
in ways that Brett Hart never would anyway, because Brett

(21:33):
was always very professional, but whereas Sean went through a
period where he, by all accounts, was not. I think
that some of this. I think I think Brett carries
resentment towards Sean because Sean he feels that Seawan was
Dad's favorite with in this, in this metaphor, you know,

(21:56):
with with Vince being dad, Sean was Daddy's favor Why
wasn't I Daddy's favorite? I think where this, that's where
this comes from.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
I can see that in Yeah, in some sick twisted
world way that makes some sorry I'm adjusting my camera,
my apologies.

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Oh that's okay. I don't even think in a sick
twisted way. I think it's I think I think it's
actually normal to have those kinds of feelings. I mean,
that's this, you know, being human.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
You know, I I get it.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
I don't justify the way he's expressing it at all.
I agree with what you said. It is pathetic, it's
and it reflects poorly on him. But I really think
that's where this is coming from.

Speaker 2 (22:40):
I you know, I'll go with that because it makes
a hell of a lot of sense. But just it
needs to stop. Oh yeah, like the bashing Triple H,
the bashing Sean like Goldberg, I even get. I even
get Goldberg like, fine, Yeah, dude, ended your career and

(23:02):
cost you millions. Fine, But the other guys. Look, I mean,
did Triple H know about the screwjob? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:18):
He did, Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (23:20):
Should he have told you? I'm torn on that. Keep
in mind, Triple H was still eating shit for for
the curtain Call, and Triple H had no loyalty to
Brett Harder. Let's yeah, let's let's put all the cards

(23:42):
on the table here. There was no loyalty to Brett.
Triple H's loyalty was to the company and to Sean. Yeah, like,
if if the rules were reversed, let me put it
this way. If the rules were reversed and Jim the
Anvil Nidehart knew that Brett was going to screw Sean,

(24:10):
would Jim the Anvil night Heart, would you be like, oh, Jim,
you should go to Sean and tell Sean.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
No, No, there's no loyalty there right there.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
There isn't this a reason to do it. So I don't.
I've never understood the beef with Triple H.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
You know what, I think, same thing, same thing, Triple A.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I'm gonna I'm gonna disagree with you on that. Okay,
because Vince didn't like Triple H, then.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well yeah, but but no, but I'm saying, though I'm
saying take the screw job out of it, I'm saying,
in a broader sense, Triple H marries into the family,
he's the son in law, and and again with Vince
as dad and Brett as the son. Brett feeling like,
on a subconscious level, Brett's probably never even thought about this.

(25:09):
This is all subconscious, but this is and it's a theory.
I'm probably completely wrong, but Brett feels like Brett Brett
has resentment toward Triple H. Because how come the son
in law who married into the family. You know, now
he has all this power. I'm on the outside looking in. Meanwhile,
the guy who married into the family is is you know,

(25:31):
Daddy just basically gave him this huge empire. Again, that's
an oversimplification, obviously by very romanus magnitude, But I'm just
saying the psychology of it. Maybe that's where Brett's resentment
comes toward Triple H. Yeah, the screw job might be
the foundation of it. But then if Triple H were

(25:51):
not in the power position that he's in, would Brett
be that bitter and angry toward him. I kind of
doubt it, But who knows.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
I don't I don't know. I wish I could say that.
I wish I could sit here and say, Matt, no, no,
you know Brett would be a staunch supporter a Triple AH.
But I can't, nor would I, because I don't know.

(26:23):
If I don't know, I think Brett, as great as
he is in the ring, he is that much better
at holding a grudge. And you know, I'll take the

(26:45):
same approach with Brett that we take with someone else
that you can live in a world of misery and
anger and regret, blame others. Yes, for everything you've done

(27:05):
and everything wrong that's happened to you. But at some
point in your life it's gonna happen where you have
to look in the mirror and say it's on me
that I need to have some culpability here.

Speaker 1 (27:27):
Yes, and.

Speaker 2 (27:29):
I firmly I have no issue with his bitterness with Goldberg,
no issue with his bitterness towards Vince Bill Goldberg. Yes, yes,
Bill Goldberg. But to have it towards Sean. Sean did
his job, Brett. I'll ask this, if on the snowballs

(27:55):
chance in hell, Brett to hit me and heart listens
to this, Brett, if Sean didn't do the do what
he did, were you gonna pay his bills? Were you
gonna get him a job in w CW? Were you
gonna vouch for him like you vouched for davy An Anvil?

(28:20):
No to all of the above. Sean had a job
to do. And you know, Brett, a few months down
the road, the shoe was on the other foot. Sean
had to give up the title. He was a pain

(28:43):
in the ass and doing it, but he did it.
I'm just saying, you know, I really hope that history
looks back at more for his in ring accomplishments than
his out of ring allegations. Yeah, but with comical things

(29:08):
like this, it's gonna be really hard.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah. Yeah, all right, we'll do any anything to add
on that or should we move on to the uh?

Speaker 2 (29:22):
I I don't have anything to add I just think
it's sad and pathetic.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
All right, Well there you go. Let's see what do
we have else? Oh? Yes, so, uh so I didn't
I haven't watched it. But Samoa Joe. Now I'm fiddling
with my camera. Uh, Samoa Joe is the uh. If

(29:50):
you're an audio listener, you have no idea why I'm
laughing right now. But yeah, this is yeah me trouble.
Samoa Joe is the new ae W World evyweight Champion.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, in a federation where titles don't matter.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
Well, they do have quite a few of them floating
around these days. I mean, I'm glad. I'm always happy
to see Samoa Joe having success.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Well, yeah, I love Samoa Joe. You know one, just
what do you? Anything I say isn't going to do
justice for the guy. But look, here's my problem, and
it's you. You cannot consistently hot shot your main title.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
No, no, nor should you. I've always been very much
a post to that.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Hot shotting in general, no purpose because you don't build consistency.
You fancy don't know who they're following, why they're following you,
and so basically you did this. It appears to get
the belt off of Hangman Page for a feud between

(31:14):
Swerve Strickland, who returned after the match to save Hangman Page,
which makes no damn sense considering Hangman Page burned down
Swerves childhood home. Yes, uh, no damn sense. But okay,

(31:35):
you're gonna do Swerve versus Joe because Joe beats Swerve
for the title in a triple threat match with Hangman. Ah.
It's confusing. I don't get it, especially since more recent

(32:00):
Swerve was with Joe's faction. That's the other thing. Aw
has too many damn factions with his faction in the
Ops fighting against the Death Riders.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I don't, I can't, and doesn't. Don Kallis's faction have
like fifteen people in it.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Uh, Andrade is a part of that faction.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh good, Yeah, Well, I'm happy for Samoa Joe, but
I haven't. I mean, as far as the rest of it,
I haven't paid enough attention to AW.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
I've got a headache just explaining it all.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, none of.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
This makes sense and that's the problem. And I say,
I feel like anytime we talk about ae W, I
say this, you cannot sit here and book for what
you want to see. You have to book for what
makes sense.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
Right, Yeah?

Speaker 2 (33:10):
Does it make sense for a midget to run into
a mack truck? No? It doesn't, then why are you
doing it?

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Did they do that in ae W?

Speaker 2 (33:20):
No? I'm saying, like, would it makes sense for a
midget to stand in front of a mac truck like
it was Tetaman square?

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Because I know someone who would who would love to
write something like that.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Bro oh peer, he probably feels for Shugglo Championship Wrestling.
Heels are falling off here real quick.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah all right, I don't really have much much more
to say on I do not either on that item.
Like I said, I haven't watched.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
I did. I'm happy for Samoa Joe. Oh yeah, very
happy for him. But I'm not.

Speaker 1 (34:09):
I'm not.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
I just no, doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, Austin
tried to explain it to me why it makes sense,
and I'm like, you're not. You're not gonna have it?
Make sense?

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Does he follow a W more closely than either you
or I do?

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Okay, so my that well, no, my scream just went black.
Are you still there?

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Yeah? I'm here.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
My monitor just went black.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
I see you.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
You see me? Okay, that's good. I don't see you
for some reason. Trying to figure out why. Uh, that's
really weird. All right, my monitors. I just restarted my monitor.
You still see me? Oh? There we go.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, you didn't go anywhere?

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Man, Okay, good, that was really strange. That's never happened,
not to self.

Speaker 2 (35:11):
We can never have this show on a Tuesday again.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
Maybe maybe there's some other thing. Is mercury and recrograde
or is retrograde or some bullshit like that. I don't know.
All right, well, maybe it's a sign that we should
move on to the main event.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Maybe.

Speaker 1 (35:33):
All right, So the main event on this week's Tough
Bumps is war Games at Survivor series coming up Thanksgiving weekend.

Speaker 2 (35:45):
This is it isn't war games.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (35:51):
No, no, no, no, no, I'm gonna it's rand time
with Eric. Okay, this is not war games, people, This
is a WWE dumb down version of what wargames used
to be.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh, I thought you were gonna correct me by saying
it's not war games, it's war games or something like that.
I can't do it.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
No, it's two rings covered in a steel cage.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Oh okay, so you're not I didn't realize this. You're
not a fan of the modern day war games.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
It's no, it's stupid.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Oh okay, I.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
Wondered a double ring cage match. Just call it a
double ring cage match. Just because you're using some of
the rules of war games, does it mean it's war games?

Speaker 1 (36:42):
But it is easier to just say war games than
to say a double ring cage match. War games is
only two syllables.

Speaker 2 (36:48):
Well, yeah, but it's not war games.

Speaker 3 (36:52):
Like like, okay, if you go over to someone's house
this Thanksgiving, Matt and then oh and they tell you
were having turkey, you get there and they're like, oh,
we're having traduccin.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Eh, thank you, it's not turkey. Well it's turkey and
a duck.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
I would be repulsed. Repulsed. I would leave. I would
say happy Thanksgiving, but I bid you adio, and I
would leave. I'd never go back there again. I wouldn't
even talk to those people ever. Again.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I think your love of food went out weigh.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
No Traducan, that's disgusting.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
I I'd try it. I've never tried traduccin.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Look, I'm not a religious man, but uh I'm going
to say this to you. I believe that traducan is
a sin against God.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
I said it, and I meant it, but uh.

Speaker 2 (37:48):
I don't. I don't. I don't think it would.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Be I think so.

Speaker 2 (37:52):
But God would be more cool with a traduccan.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I don't believe that's That's not the allote sound. How
dare you? Now? I'm curious to know, though, So what so?
Because you know, you are much more familiar with war
games than I am. I because the bulk of the
war games I've been exposed to, the quote unquote war
games is the modern WWE version. So what is different

(38:19):
about war games?

Speaker 2 (38:20):
Well, previous war games was originally two rings encased in
a cage with a mesh roof over the top. Okay,
no way in, no way out. Once you're in, you're in, okay,

(38:40):
And the rules were kind of hard to follow. That
basically everyone had to be in before the match was decided,
and you only won by pinfaller submission. That is it?

Speaker 1 (39:03):
Okay, no other way?

Speaker 2 (39:08):
And you know you so yeah, And look because where
the idea came from is Dusty Rhodes. Was it got
the idea from watching Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Oh I didn't know that.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Yes, it was called war Games the Match Beyond.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
I do remember that that's what it was called originally,
Games the Match Beyond, I mean.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
And it didn't take place in the Fall because Wargames
Near during WCW's heyday with the nWo was synonymous with
Fall Brawl. No, it took place at the Great American Bashka.
Originally it was done as a way to blow off
multiple feuds while jump starting new feuds, okay, within this cage.

(40:12):
And it was a brilliant idea. And I remember seeing
my first war Games and just like, man, is this crazy?
It was Hull Cogan sting Macho Man and Lex Luger
versus the Dungeon of Doune and it was crazy. And

(40:39):
then of course I went to the video store and
wanted to see more of this match because I'm like, man,
they're they're jumping in between rings and guys are hanging
on the top of the cage kicking people. That was
Randy Savage's contribution to the match. Savage got on the roof,
held on to the roof and kicked So it really

(41:05):
was different.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Yeah, who was in the Dungeon of Doom at that point?

Speaker 2 (41:11):
I think it was Kevin Sullivan?

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Yeah, Shark.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Uh, Zodiac, Brutus, the fucking barber Beefcake.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, he was Zodiac at that point. That was one
of his seventeen different names. And Shark was John Tenta
previously known as Earthquake.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
The Gangster.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
Who is the gangster?

Speaker 2 (41:39):
The gangster?

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Who? Who is that?

Speaker 2 (41:45):
The gangster was Zeus?

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Oh god, yeah, I'd forgotten all about him, tiny lister. Yep,
Zeus he was Gangster, the Gangster.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Is he dead?

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Did he died?

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Ago? He has sadly passed off?

Speaker 1 (42:00):
Yeah? So that was the Dungeon of Doom. Yes, So
you enjoyed this. You enjoyed this match? It sounds like I.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
Mean, I wouldn't say that I sat there and was like,
oh man, this is this is some great a stuff here.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Yeah, I mean.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
It was a cool idea in a cool concept, right,
and the more I saw, the more the danger of
the match really got to me. Because there's a spot
that I will always remember that probably should have ended
Brian Pillman's career. Uh. Sid picks Pilman up for a

(42:43):
power bomb and Pilman hits the top of the cage. Yeah,
and Sid throws him down and you see Brian Pilman's
head bend all the way back. If he doesn't push
up on the roof, it would have ended very badly.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
So what happens there? Did Sid just forget you can't
do that move in a cage?

Speaker 2 (43:06):
I think he thought there was enough clearance.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
Okay, I didn't know if he'd ever explained that in
a shoot interview or anything.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
What happened. I don't think he did. I'm going to
guess that it's one of those things that everyone's kind
of like, crap happens.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Yeah, because I also wonder in that moment, why did
Pillman let him do it?

Speaker 2 (43:29):
Well? I think they were at the point in no
return by the time Pillman knew Yeah, I mean, you're
up there, You're already up there, what do you.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
But who's calling the spot? Though? Is what I know?
We're getting granular here. But but who's who's calling the
spot and then.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Who's generally heals call the match. Yeah, so I'm going
to guess Sid called. They discussed it in the back. Yeah,
I think I know where you're going with this. White
and Brian Pillman say, hey, maybe we should go out
and give this a shot. Right your six', Nine i'm six.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
One roan was six one five nine, Five, OKAY i, say,
YEAH i didn't think it was six to.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
One, yeah somewhere in that. Range but, yeah but you,
know you're still sitting here and you're, LIKE i don't,
know maybe not someone should have said. Something, yeah even
an agent should have been, LIKE i don't know if
you guys should.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
Try this right?

Speaker 2 (44:36):
RIGHT i mean that's up there with the elimination, Chamber
rob Van. Dambotch, Yeah and you know we sometimes in
these matches you gotta, consider you, know, physics LIKE i

(45:02):
ALTHOUGH i PUT i put ninety percent of the blame
On rob van dam for. That the moment he got
up there to do the frog, splash he had to
know he didn't have the clearance to land it, correctly
and he should have he should have done something, else

(45:26):
like maybe an elbow. DROP i don't, know like he
crouches down and he hesitates before he does, it so
it looks like he's thinking about.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
It but uh, so so that was but that was
the first war games that you, watched.

Speaker 2 (45:46):
And then you, know it was huge in getting THE
nWo over because you had the first War games that
was a team Of, Sting Rick, Flair Lex luger And Macho.
Man and the big story going into this is Is
sting solidly WITH. Wcw and it turns out he, was

(46:13):
but he left him high and, dry and that match GAVE,
wcw GAVE nWo. No that was the next year that
really solidified THE nWo as being a legitimate threat because
you had that first match and then THE nWo, won

(46:37):
and not only did they, win they dominated that. Wargames
it wasn't EVEN i, mean, yeah THE nWo, cheated WHICH
i hate saying that in regards to. Wargames it's, war.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
That's, true, like, oh you broke the?

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Rules what? Rule you're you're locked in a cage?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Fight, well but even war does have. Rules there are
international Rule it's it's, counterintuitive but there are there are
rules to.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
War actually, Yeah i'm sure they're, followed.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
But uh so you.

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Then the next year you had THE nWo versus The Four. Horsemen,
yes And Kurt henning does the.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Turn, Yes and that.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Led to THE nWo getting their own pay per view
and no longer having to pay for advertisements ON wcw.
Television that led to the following announcement has been paid
for by The New World order that any.

Speaker 1 (47:40):
More, YEAH i used to love those, promos but, yeah and,
then uh, so so how did you feel about That War?
Games it was a turn everyone saw it.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Coming, yeah you, Knew, yeah you knew what was going to.
Happen you Knew henning was gonna. TURN I i don't
know That War. GAMES i remember loving the INFAMOUS nWo
parody of The Four, Horsemen and Now i'm, like that

(48:19):
was really impoor. Taste oh, Really NOW i kind of
like someone should have pulled back on.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
That oh that's interesting to me because you kind of
have the opposite reaction that a lot of people. Do
like a lot of people didn't like it at the.
TIME i love that on it now and say it was.
FUN i thought it was.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
The funniest damn Thing i'd seen on pro. Wrestling, yeah
quite some. Time the best was everyone says that the
unsung hero of that Is Sean walton Is Rick, Flair oh, yeah,
no the unsung hero of that old. Thing he didn't

(49:02):
even say. Anything conan As mongo. McMichael that was.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
Throwing the foot that, FUNNY.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
I, agree randomly just throwing up a FULL.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I, agree it's like. Water that was. Funny and Buff
bagwell doing the behind the back towel toss. Throughout, yeah
that was. Funny no THAT i thought it was all?
Good what was? So what what about?

Speaker 2 (49:35):
It?

Speaker 1 (49:35):
That what about it causes you to look back and
feel it was in poor taste the.

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Timeframe why a week Earlier Arnie anderson legitimately retires from pro. Wrestling,
yeah and a week later you mock him in the
way they mock. Him it goes back to WHAT i
said About brett And Arnie anderson's children were watching that.

(50:03):
Episode it's like.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
It's HE i don't have a problem with. IT i
never had a problem with.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
IT i it's not a big. Problem it's one of
those THAT i watch it And i'm, like they crossed the.
LINE i, think, uh they crossed a few lines, maybe
but other than, THAT i don't understand the vitriol people

(50:35):
have for it to this. Day there are people that
hate it to this. Day Jim, cornett will you want
A cornett? Rant? Oh, yeah? Man AND I i don't.
KNOW i think some of the things said were a

(51:00):
bit crass and. Unnecessary the n W, o what do you?
WANT i don't. Know there were a couple of things
that now just don't sit right with. Me like my
hand went, numb you know? What AND i cried it
tear because that's my beer drinking.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Hand, SEE i, THOUGHT i still think it's, funny even
even hearing you repeated. TODAY i think it's.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
Body Armie anderson had an alcohol, problem and you knew it.
THEN i didn't know.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
THAT i didn't know knew. It, wait but arn't? Anders
is he an? Alcoholic Arn?

Speaker 2 (51:47):
ANDERSON i believe he admitted?

Speaker 1 (51:49):
It and this is this is oh, OKAY i haven't
read his. BOOK i was gonna, say this is news to.
Me i've never heard. THAT i, MEAN i know The
Four horsemen like The.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Party admitted to having an alcohol prop being an. Alcoholic
he said he has a problem with excessive.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
DRINKING i take that to mean as another way of
saying he's, no, no.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
As someone that is a functional alcoholic and actually been
diagnosed as. Such, no you'reb sturting.

Speaker 4 (52:21):
The fact that you're an, alcoholic okay by saying by
SAYING i have a problem with excessive, drinking to a
common person such as, yourself, yes that means you're an.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
Alcoholic but to an, alcoholic you're, like, Oh i'm not an.
ALCOHOLIC i just drink too much, sometimes, Right and it's,
like so it's not that. Bad so, YEAH i don't.
Know but, Look i'm a firm believer in anyone that
was a member of The Four horsemen in the eighties

(52:55):
probably was a raging. Alcoholic oh, YEAH i mean of,
course you, know a psychiatrist would probably watch their videos
and be, like there's a lot of issues.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Here, yeah, yeah of.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Course but, yeah then it just kind of went downhill from.
There you had the one year where there was three
teams in it and the announcers had no clue what
the rules.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
Were did they only do that once with the Three they.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Get that once when they realized that it was a
total total shit.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
Show, YEAH i don't know how you three teams with
four men on each?

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Team, yes let me explain the, teams.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Okay BECAUSE i don't even remember this.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
ING Wcw Diamond Dallas, Page Roddy piper and The warrior
VERSUS nWo Hollywood Hollywood, Hogan Brett hart And Stevie ray
VERSUS nWo, Wolfpack Kevin, Nash sting And Lex. Luger.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
Hm, yes now it's coming back to.

Speaker 2 (54:13):
Me and it was like. That that. Event wargames nineteen
ninety eight was named the worst major wrestling show of
nineteen ninety eight by The Wrestling.

Speaker 1 (54:26):
Observer ah, YEAH i. DON'T i MEAN i never watched.
It i've never seen, it BUT.

Speaker 2 (54:35):
I ACTUALLY i think that is WHEN I i saw
it live on pay per. View, YEAH i think that
is WHEN i kinda was, like, UH wcw.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
Sucks, Yeah like it just.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
Was i'm the whole card WAS i, mean as the
co main, event you Had conyan Beating Scott.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
Hall mm hmm what is?

Speaker 2 (55:11):
That that is also the match Where British bulldog severely
injured is?

Speaker 1 (55:17):
Back oh, yes on the uh, yeah the infamous war
the trapdoor that was there for for The warrior to come.
Through AND i guess they didn't tell they didn't Tell
davy that the trap door was there or, something or
even if they did tell. Him how do you, avoid,
like how do you even remember you have to avoid
a specific part of the ring because as a trapdoor

(55:39):
there that you're gonna get hurt On what this is?
Awful what a shift?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Show, yeah The wargames. Match Since page scored the winning,
pinfall he received a match for THE Wcw World Heavyweight
championship At Halloween havoc, okay which we all recall what
happened that? Month what? Happened that's the Infamous Bill GOLDBERG
ddp match that didn't air on pay per.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
View, ah, yes, well to be, fair part of it.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Aired the first five.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Minutes, yeah, yeah give you a little give you a
little preview of what you weren't going to. See, yeah, look,
teezer War.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
GAMES i, mean War games really is such a forgotten
part of pro wrestling history and it's quite. Sad Without War,
games you probably don't Have Survivor series because it really
came up with the four on fourteen, concept, right and

(56:51):
you don't Have hell in a Sal.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
Well Survivor series was Originally teams Of five and the
only REASON i remember that is because it had the
slogan Was teams of five strive to. Survive that's the
only REASON i remember. That it was originally five on a,
team you, know but they've tinkered with it a lot
over the. Years obviously they.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
HAVE i remember the year they had that all the
lone survivors would go yeah in a like royal rumble.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Or no, no no. NO i remember. This it was
all the survivors from each of the. Teams in the main,
event it was it was Still heels Versus, babyfaces so
it Was hogan And warrior were the two babyfaces against
like five of the surviving, heels and of Course hogan
And warrior just beat everybody and won the. Match but
that's that's what it. Was that's what they, DID i

(57:44):
guess BECAUSE i do remember. THAT i remember watching that
with my family On. THANKSGIVING i, YEAH i don't.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
Know wargames doesn't get the credit it. Should, yeah it
was probably one of the best ideas to come FROM.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
Wcw well what was the Original wargames? Match do you?
Know because Because Dusty rhodes started war we should talk
about the history of A Dusty rhodes Is, well you
did mention it. Earlier it was his, Concept but do
you know what the first one?

Speaker 2 (58:16):
Was the First War games was at a part of
The Great American Bash tour in nineteen eighty. Seven they
actually did this match twice in the span of seventeen,
days and then they did it Again october sixteenth at

(58:39):
a house show WITH Uic pavilion and then Again, no
this was the same match the first three times they did.
It Road, Warriors Road Warrior hawk And Road Warrior, Animal Nikita,
Colaf Dusty rhoads And Paul ellering versus The Four, Horsemen Rick,

(59:02):
Flair Arn, Anderson Lex, Luger Totally blanchard AND Jj. Dillon
now they. Alternated. Uh when it was at The Orange,
bowl the War Machine Ray traylor filled in FOR Jj.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Dillon Ray traylor was, Wait Ray, traylor The big Boss
man was once the War. Machine, YES i don't even
remember that. CHARACTER i do not.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Either. Weird then in the third House, Show Ron garvin
Replaced Nikita.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
Koloff, okay oh.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Wait, No Ron garvin Replaced Paul.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Ellering OH i hope he got to do The garvin STOMP.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I and then they Did Ron, Garvin Dusty, Rhodes Barry
windham in The rock And Roll express Versus The Midnight,
Express Big Bubba, Rodgers Arn anderson and Totally, blanchard so
The Dangerous.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Alliance so so they did this match how many?

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Times and in nineteen eighty seven they did it a
grand total of four.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Times but but it were some of these house, shows
this is they, were oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
Well actually all four of them were house.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Shows so was the idea? Then SEE i didn't know,
THIS i had no, Idea So i'm wondering was the idea?
Then Was dussy's, Idea let's do this at house shows
and we'll kind of fine tune, it maybe swap some
people in and.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
OUT i think the idea, was let's do this grand
match to put asses in, seats, okay let's give let's
give a novelty to.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
It, Okay because my thinking was you probably know WHERE
i was going with, This but like was he, thinking
were eventually going to put this on pay per, view
but we want to try some different, things some different
combinations of people before we put it on pay per.
View you know What i'm, saying?

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
RIGHT i think once when it was under THE nwa,
banner the LAST i think they did it during house,
shows and then the first pay per view one was
at The Great American bash in nineteen eighty.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Nine, oh not until eighty.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
Nine, Yes, Now i'm going to guess that the ones
in eighty seven probably aired on compilation videos or ON wcw, programming,
OKAY nwa. Programming, yeah but The wargames match was The Road, Warriors, Howckeeny,

(01:01:54):
animal The Midnight express And Steve Doctor Death, williams and
they had cornering Them Paul ellering And Jim cornett defeated
The Fabulous Free birds and The Samoan Swat team With
paul dangerously. Okay So Michael, Hayes Jimmy garvin And Terry gordy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
Hmm, Okay and it was not the main event of
that match, Really.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
No Rick flair Versus Terry funk for THE Nwa World
Heavyweight championship was.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
Well that makes. Sense that was a Big that was
a big. Deal that was a big, program, yes, Okay
so that was so that was the first one on
pay per, View, yes, okay that is.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
The first one on pay per.

Speaker 1 (01:02:47):
Views so that was eighty, nine, yep eighty, Nine.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Okay the rest were headliners for The Great American Bash.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Tour oh.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
And then they followed it Up august, sixth they redid
that match at the omni, okay and Then Wressell war
ninety one was The Four horsemen Versus, Sting Brian pillman
and The Steiner. Brothers that is the one with the
infamous power bomb.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Spot oh, okay that was ninety, one, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Okay and then once again they had it on The
Great American Bash. Tour. Oh and then They Wressell war
ninety Two Sting's squadron versus The Dangerous. Alliance and then
in ninety three is where it found its home In Fall.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Brawl, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
And that was the Infamous that was the match that Had,
Sting davy Boy, Smith Dustin rhodes and the Shock.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Master, yes both the the worst and best thing that
ever happened To Fred.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
OTMAN i uh, Know i'm gonna go with the. Worst
the best is when he won the tag titles With
earthquake and w W F.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
Oh yeah that was pretty great. Too.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
Yeah you, know but again we we sing the accolades
Of Fred otman as we. Should this guy has embraced
the Shock. Master well that's the.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Thing that's WHY i say it's it's both the worst
and the best thing that ever happened to, him BECAUSE i.

Speaker 2 (01:04:29):
Mean he carries the mask with him to. Conventions.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
Yeah, YEAH i mean it made him a, legend you,
KNOW i, Mean god bless. Him so Uh, Okay so
then when when did did war games once once it
found its home as you put it With Fall, brawl
did it then stay there until all the way until
the end of w C w effects he.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
Did there was one On Monday night night tro Oh september,
fourth two thousand, oh the last one to be held
At Fall. Brawl it was held every year At Fall
bral from ninety three to ninety. Eight, Okay apparently they
thought though one with three teams meant no one cared

(01:05:18):
About Fall brawl when it should have been no one
cares about three. Teams.

Speaker 1 (01:05:33):
Yeah, well well, that AND i mean with more creative
booking they probably could have gotten it. Over but also
the whole THE nWo Civil, war AS i thought of,
it you, know with the black and white versus black and,
red was so oddly presented and. Incoherent they could have

(01:05:55):
done something really interesting, there but they. Didn't, instead it
was just. Bizarre.

Speaker 2 (01:06:00):
Yeah on THE vhs cover Of Fall brawl ninety eight
is a photo Of goldberg Uh in staying arm in
arm walking away from the ring With goldberg holding the.
Title goldberg wasn't even on the.

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
Card that WAS wcw for.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
You let me see IF i can send this to
you so you can show.

Speaker 1 (01:06:29):
Everyone, yeah that kind of shit, was, uh just an
example of the kind of things that would happen in
that company that you would never see IN wwe or
at that time STILL. Wwf just really, inexcusable just embarrassing
stuff like.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
That, YEAH i mean it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Good, no, no it is not.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Good you know here it, Is.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Matt, okay all, right all, right let me download that
And i'll put it up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
If you need any further. Explanation let's see.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
Here i'm gonna let's do it this. Way, YEAH i
don't Think i've ever seen, this uh this image. Before
let me grab it. Here but this is this is
what's on the cover of.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
THIS vhs For wargames nineteen ninety. Eight you can see
in the background the ring apron Is Monday Night.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Nitro, yeah And goldberg isn't Even, yeah And goldberg isn't
even on the. Card, nope that's so, EMBARRASSING i, mean
to be.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
Fair sting was a member of The, wolfpack so he
did have the red face paint on on?

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
Him did he was representing The red And? Black?

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
Yes, yeah but, nope match didn't. Happen goldberg wasn't even
on the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
Card, wow that's really. Bad so so then so Then
wargames died WITH wcw and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Then not, Necessarily Florida Championship wrestling did? It oh or
was It Ohio? Valley when it was Either Ohio valley
Or Florida Championship, wrestling did? It?

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
Cornett Was Ohio? Valley? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
Yep so, yeah it Was Ohio? Valley.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Okay so they did a War games Interesting, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:08:38):
Yeah it wasn't well, Received, okay but it came back
in twenty SEVENTEEN nxt takeover War. Games, yep they tried.
It they tried it for four consecutive, years and then

(01:08:59):
it came back in.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Two, yeah because there's been a thing WITH nxc where
they bring back sometimes they bring back some of the
OLD wcw intellectual property, yup WHICH i think is. COOL
i don't know how you feel about it, PERSONALLY i like.
IT i think it's. Cool and, obviously BECAUSE wwe PURCHASED

(01:09:21):
wcw and all THE, ip you, know they're free to do.
That that's why they. Can that's why they're able to
use all this. Stuff one of the things that made
that such a shrewd thing For vince to do at the.
Time SO i like it personally that they do.

Speaker 2 (01:09:34):
That we should mention All Elite wrestling has incorporated their
own version of war.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Games they have The blood And Guts. Match oh, yeah that's, true.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
But, Yeah Combat Zone wrestling has done it in Their
caje Of. Death with those. RULES ecw held the version
known as The Ultimate Jeopardy Steel Cage.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
Match that's a. Mouthful, yes they.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Only did it once in nineteen ninety four Between Shane,
Douglas Mister hughes and The Public enemy versus a team
Of Terry, Funk Road Warrior Hawk Kevin sullivan in the
Taz maniac for THE Ecw World Heavyweight.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Championship, wait so the belt was on the, Line so
how did? That how did that? WORK i?

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Wonder the Main, basically the main event was An Ultimate
Jeopardy Steel cage. Match each participant had a stipulation which
would be implemented if they were. Defeated, Okay Terry, funk

(01:10:54):
whoever defeated him would win THE Ecw World Heavyweight. Championship
Road Warrior hawk he could no longer call himself Road.
Warrior Kevin sullivan and The tasmaniac would be forced to
stop teaming. Together Shane douglas his head would be, Shaved
Mister hughes his Manager jason The Sexiest Man alive would

(01:11:19):
be locked in the cage for five minutes with members
of the other team the public. Enemy they would be
forced to stop teaming.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
Together holy Over Booking Batman.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
Douglas pinfunk to win THE Ecw Heavyweight. Championship, okay so
you the best way to go about? That?

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Yeah, yeah what straightforward? Path yeah makes? Sense so so
you so so just to kind, OF i guess bring
us up to present. Day so you You're i'm not
a fan of LIKE i enjoyed last Year's wargames.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Match, LOOK i think they do what they, do what
they do with what they.

Speaker 1 (01:12:09):
Have is, Fine, OKAY i JUST i don't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
KNOW i And i've Heard Triple h's logic, that, oh
we already have a cage match with a rough and
it's hell in a. Cell, no that's a. Cell this
is a cage with a rouff on. It, yeah there's a,
Difference AND i get that wrestling has evolved and now

(01:12:35):
everyone wants to do their flippy dew dipshit dunk a
ruse off the top of the. Cage, yeah so, fine
but it just it takes away from wargames because to,
me what made wargames cool is these guys were enclosed
in there and the only way you were going to

(01:12:55):
and the only way to, win was that you were
going to have To you're you're gonna have to find it.
Out no one else was getting in, there no one
else is getting out of, there Right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Yeah, WELL i, mean.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
So it's, different AND i don't, KNOW i don't like
the idea of them being able to. ESCAPE i THINK
i think if you really could unleash the creativity of the,
men of the individuals in the, match if you had the,

(01:13:35):
roof because then they have to figure, out how do
we get weapons in? There how do we you, know
how do we do? This?

Speaker 1 (01:13:46):
Yeah so how they say it In iowa?

Speaker 2 (01:13:49):
Roof, Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
In New hampshire we, say, roof you're more sophisticated than we.
Are that what you, say, Roof it sounds like talking
about a dog marking.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
Is you finished or is you?

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Done My northeastern.

Speaker 2 (01:14:16):
Play with some. Syrup.

Speaker 1 (01:14:17):
Man, well you know we are right next door to
a maple syrup state.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
You are.

Speaker 1 (01:14:25):
Play with some maple. Syrup listen to some vanilla? Fudge? Yep,
well any other thoughts on on war games as we
approach approach.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
US i think w LIKE i, said W we does
a great job with what they. Have you, know being
someone that enjoyed war games and grew up with war,
games it just feels like a cage match to. Me.
There it doesn't have that special aura about, it Like

(01:15:01):
i'm gonna see something crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
Tonight oh THIS I i don't Think i'm thinking of
the right. THING i Think i'm thinking of something. Else
but tell tell tell me. This was there some sort
of thing with the Original wargames match where it's because
you've got two? Rings? Right? Yes was there something that
started in one?

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Ring, no That's World War three where they rings and
that was a?

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Mess oh, yeah, yeah that was a. Mess, okay Because
i've Seen i've seen that. MATCH i remember that with
multiple where it starts in one ring and then eventually
you go to another ring.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
And it's just it's a train.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Wreck, yeah, okay, okay that's WHAT i was thinking of
That and.

Speaker 2 (01:15:51):
It's so weird because the person that won that match
always got injured or something where they could get their
title shot at Super. Brawl, yeah or they were in
rehab Like Scott. Hall, yeah and then they had it

(01:16:11):
like three months later than they should have and no
one gave a.

Speaker 4 (01:16:15):
Damn.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
Yeah, yeah all, Right, WELL i look forward to war.
GAMES i look forward to you're you're.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
You're convoluting my, Words, Matt i'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Saying i'm just Saying I'm i'm looking forward to war.
GAMES i. DIDN'T i didn't say you weren't looking forward
to war.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
Games my problem Is Notre dame plays at nine Thirty saturday, Night,
okay so decisions will have to be.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Made, WELL i feel like even Though i'm not a sports,
fan SO i DON'T i don't personally care about, football
BUT i can see where you would probably want to
watch the game. Live it seems like it would be
less less important somehow to watch to see rest like

(01:17:01):
like like if Like jenny AND, i we don't a
lot of this stuff we watch on, like we're not
gonna be It's saturday, night, right, Yep we're not gonna
be able to watch it live, anyway we're gonna be
at an, Event so from our perspective we're used to
not seeing stuff. Live we're not gonna be able to
watch it till the next day because, Uh saturday night
we're gonna be at event In terminus at itt uh

(01:17:23):
In nashville And New. Hampshire so we will get to
see it live, anyway but you, know we'll watch It. Sunday,
YEAH i you, Know i'll watch it for.

Speaker 2 (01:17:36):
Me there isn't a lot of suspense on which team
is gonna, win you, know and that also kind of
kills the aura of. It, also the teams this year
kind of feel thrown. Together there Isn't it's just kind
of teams of, convenience not of.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Necessity, yeah but that seemed to me, though that makes
it interesting because so for, Example I'm i'm curious to
see how The babyface team Of Cody roads And Roman
reigns and and Uh stanpuck and everybody and THE uso
is how that how they function. Together that is a good.

Speaker 2 (01:18:15):
POINT i didn't think of it like. That it's, like,
oh it's just. Convenient All now there's.

Speaker 1 (01:18:19):
INTRIGUE i think there's genuine storyline intrigue, there which is
WHAT i.

Speaker 2 (01:18:22):
Like, so you, KNOW i mean hopefully There's it will
probably be over by nine, thirty to be, Honest.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
Oh what times it? Start?

Speaker 2 (01:18:37):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Six it won't be over by nine. Thirty if it
starts at, six they get.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
Over the premium live events get over around the nine ish.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Timeframe oh you're you know, What i'm, Sorry i'm THINKING
i forgot you're in a different time. Zone, yeah, yeah,
yeah so, yeah you're. Right, no, yeah you're. Right it
might be over by because that would be ten thirty. Here,
YEAH i maybe maybe closer to, eleven which your time
would be. Ten but, YEAH i forgot you were in
a different time. Zone that's part of why that threw.

Speaker 2 (01:19:07):
Me it was, like that's also part of the reason
Why Notre dame is playing at nine Thirty saturday. Night
they're playing In Palo, Alto. California oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
Gotcha so, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:19):
So, yeah, yeah it sucks WHEN espn hates your favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
Team yeah, yeah WELL i don't pay FOR, espn as you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:33):
Know, YES i am well. Aware OUR vpn goddess showed
you the.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
Way OUR vpn, goddess we do love. This So stephanie, McMahon.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
YES i you, know for this. Week matt keeps sticking
it TO.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
Espn yeah that's, right that's, right change.

Speaker 2 (01:19:53):
My tune next episode because we're off this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Week, yeah, yeah what are we? Doing we didn't talk
off air at. ALL i don't think about what we
are doing for the next.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
Episode stay tuned, Everyone matt AND i will talk about,
it and if you care to find out what we're
gonna talk about on the next episode in ten, days
go ahead and join.

Speaker 1 (01:20:12):
Us, okay you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
Know, UH i have an. Idea you know, WHAT i
have an.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
Idea, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Since we'll be approaching the month Of. December december is
known for a very historic pro wrestling pay per, View,
yeah the history Of.

Speaker 1 (01:20:37):
Starcade OH i thought you were gonna Say december To.
DECEMBER i was.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
Like oh, no there's no, Reason, like, no it's so
bad because then we go right into Our John cena. Extravaganza, yes, so, yeah,
ON i believe that will be do. Do let me

(01:21:02):
pull up my calendar, here calendar, there, wait where's my? Calendar? No,
there we, go found the. Calendar. See actually it's not

(01:21:23):
working on my. Computer oh so.

Speaker 1 (01:21:27):
Okay, God but so for the for the next, one
you want to do the. History the next.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
One will be On november. Thirtieth, no, wait that's This. Sunday,
yeah the next one will Be december, seventh, yeah and
then the fourteenth will Be part one Of John. Cena
and actually, no we should probably Be part one Of
John cena on the, seventh, okay and then part two

(01:21:58):
and then on the two twenty first we'll Do starcade.

Speaker 1 (01:22:02):
Okay and then Is austin joining.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
Us for The JOHN i gotta get in the, dates, okay, okay,
yeah we hopefully will Have Austin hicks joining us excellent
for The John cena.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
Episodes, yes, Yes i've yet to Meet, austin so that
will be. Interesting SO i hope that works out. Well very,
good very. Good, so, uh we should remind people About
pilcher's point for people who might be joining us.

Speaker 2 (01:22:29):
Live, Yes pilcher's point is up and. Running you will
get to see the new logo if you go. There,
uh it hasn't been updated. Yet no blogs have been
posted today or. Tomorrow new blog about college football playoff,
controversy which new rankings are released. Tonight so that's WHY

(01:22:55):
i say today or, tomorrow BECAUSE i don't know IF
i will get.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
To a blog, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
Tonight because they're released at seven Thirty eastern.

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
Time, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
And, yeah uh, so, YEAH i hope to be doing
anywhere between one to three blogs a. Week you, know
classic film reviews will be consistently updated to include recent,
ones so we have. Those uh, so yeah It it

(01:23:32):
should be a great way for you to kind of
get to see my WHAT i think on.

Speaker 1 (01:23:38):
Subjects, yes, yes outstanding and a very easy way to.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
Get a hold of me on social.

Speaker 1 (01:23:43):
Media now there you, go there you.

Speaker 2 (01:23:45):
Go. Excellent just look Up Pilcher's point all one word.

Speaker 1 (01:23:49):
Yep you can go To pilterspoint dot, Com.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
Pilterspoint dot, Com Pilture's point On instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
X and TikTok, excellent, excellent.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Or Eric pilcher On.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Facebook, okay, well very, good very. Good and of course
if you want to keep up with Everything i'm, doing
you can go to my Website matt connorton dot. Com
and by the, way for anyone who is, wondering, yes
the show will be Live saturday, Morning Matt Connorton. Unleashed
even though it's a holiday, weekend we still go Live
friday Night Retrospectrum radio and Then Saturday Morning Matt Connorton.

(01:24:24):
Unleashed oh and by the, way for those who are,
Familiar Brooklyn mike will be our guest in the third.
Hour he is a very talented musician and listeners OF
wmnh ninety five point THREE, fm which is the show
that we emanate From, ununleashed many of many of those
listeners are already familiar With Brooklyn Brooklyn. Mike he's got

(01:24:45):
to been a member of the extended family OF wm
AND h for, many many. Years he's been on the
morning show a. Lot he's been On Retrospector radio some other,
shows but This saturday morning will be his very first
time appearing live On Matt Connorton. Unleashed wait to talk with.
Him and his name Is Brooklyn, mike so you know
he's a Real New.

Speaker 2 (01:25:03):
Yorker, huh, yep go out.

Speaker 1 (01:25:08):
There no, No and also one of THOSE.

Speaker 2 (01:25:12):
I did not know you still had your radio, Show, Matt.

Speaker 1 (01:25:15):
OH i, do, YES i had, HEARD i don't know
from where.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
SOMEWHERE i think it's pretty, irrelevant but he no longer
had your radio.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
Show no still got? It still got?

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
It? Hey all?

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
Right Brooklyn michael be on And Brooklyn.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 (01:25:31):
Mike by the, way he's A New, yorker but he's
one of the nicest People i've ever.

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
Met not many, people you. Know i'm not going to say.

Speaker 1 (01:25:39):
Anything, yeah he's a really good.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
Guy Like thumper, said if you can't say anything, nice
don't say anything at.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
All that's, Right that's, Right. Boston, well thank you. Everybody
thank you so.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Much, Eric thank you. EVERYONE i hope you enjoy like and.
Subscribe if you have any ideas or you want to
hear us talk about, something by all.

Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
Means let us, know, yes And Happy. Thanksgiving Happy.

Speaker 2 (01:26:04):
Thanksgiving what do you have?

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
Planned, Matt jenny AND i are going to stay here
AND i think we're having. Pizza.

Speaker 2 (01:26:14):
Okay she gave me the.

Speaker 1 (01:26:16):
Option we were at the grocery. Store she, said do
you want me to get a turkey For? Thanksgiving or
do you just want to have pizza or. SOMETHING i was, like,
yeah have. Pizza i'm fine with.

Speaker 2 (01:26:25):
It rocky AND i will have our holiday. Feast, Yeah
New york strip steak with pumpkin, Pie grand's. Biscuits, no,
Yup so no turkey for you, Either, no but Mine's
mine's still a good holiday. Meal it's not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:46):
Pizza, yes pizza's my favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:26:49):
FOOD i mean my ex wife will be joining us as,
well oh, okay spending the day with, us although she
will possibly be prepping for berryatric Surgery december. Ninth oh
so she might be on our liquid only.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
Diet oh okay on that, day.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
WHICH i think is. Inhumane, yeah no, kidding. Huh she
has an appointment tomorrow day Before. THANKSGIVING i think it's
inhumane to tell them you cannot have solid.

Speaker 1 (01:27:19):
Food, yeah oh, yeah so it's, brutal.

Speaker 2 (01:27:22):
Brutal, look one day isn't going to make a.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Difference stock mm, hmm that's, right that's, Right all, Right
well we'll put a pin in this. One this one's
in the. Books thank you everyone who joined us on
the live, stream and of course thank you to everyone
who Joins Stuff bumps in the podcast feed and be
sure to subscribe on your podcast platform of choice and
is available. Everywhere and of, course if you view the

(01:27:47):
show on, YouTube please liken. Subscribe and that's going to
do it for us for. Now Thanks, Eric.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
Thanks, Matt thanks, Everyone Happy, Thanksgiving Happy.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
Thanksgiving we'll talk to you a little bit. Later, bye.
Everybody