Laurence Ion

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Greetings and welcome to the United States Transhumanist Party Virtual
Enlightenment Salon. My name is Jannati Stolier of the Second
and I am the Chairman of the US Transhumanist Party.
Here we hold conversations with some of the world's leading
thinkers in longevity, science, technology, philosophy and politics. Like the

(00:21):
philosophers of the Age of Enlightenment, we aim to connect
every field of human endeavor and arrive at new insights
to achieve longer lives, greater rationality, and the progress of
our civilization. Greetings, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our
United States Transhumanist Party Virtual Enlightenment Salon of Sunday, June eighth,

(00:44):
twenty twenty five. We are going to offer a discussion
for you today of startup cities and the potential for
such startup cities and free economic zone to bring about
opportunities for the dramatic acceleration of life extension research. So

(01:08):
joining us today is our distinguished panel of US Transhumanist
Party officers, including our Director of Visual Art and current
Vice Chairman, art Ramon Garcia, our Director of Publication Zach Richardson.
As well. We have our Technology Advisor and Foreign Ambassador

(01:32):
in Spain, doctor Jose Cordero, and our special guest today
is Lawrence Ion. Lawrence Ion is an entrepreneur who previously
co created various decentralized organizations such as Vita Dao and
Jellyfish Dao, whose representatives we have had on previous Virtual

(01:52):
Enlightenment salons, and he has also co founded longevity focused
communities such as Zuzuluzi pop up City in Montenegro and Vitalia.
The Longevity City pop up city that existed until earlier
this year in Roatan. Roatan is an island on the

(02:16):
territory of Honduras. Vitalia existed within the Prospera Free Economic Zone,
and now Lawrence is spearheading the creation of Viva City,
which is a permanent city for people who prioritize longevity
and wish to pursue rapid innovations to attain it. And
he is also in the midst of organizing what will

(02:39):
be a near term step toward that goal, Viva Frontier Tower,
a six week program in San Francisco which will take
place soon between June twentieth and August fourth, twenty twenty five.
So thank you very much. Lawrence for joining us. Welcome
and please tell us more. Also, I understand you have
a presentation, so feel free to pull that up as well.

(03:03):
But what initially got you into this field of creating
these in depth longevity focused organizations and communities.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, my pleasure to be here.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
I'm actually in the tower and people are buzzing here.

Speaker 2 (03:23):
I can.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
I can show you around a little bit if you want.
There's a hackathon going on. This tower is a sixteenth
floor building that we're bringing our community into, and I'll
tell you more about that. In terms of what got
me into this, I think it's hard to know what
would have happened otherwise. But because I was born with

(03:45):
rare genetic disease, I have all these tumors, dozens of tumors,
bone tumors that are benign, but they could become cancerous.
And you know, growing up, I've had my surgeries, I've
spent a lot of time in hospitals, and I do
have a lot of joint pains and I've suffered what

(04:07):
I've dealt with the idea of you know, what if
I don't wake up for from general anesthesia, you know,
potentially some out of body experiences and thinking from a
very young age about uh death, about frailty. And although
I had some kind of a detour towards the tech industry,

(04:27):
I didn't really know that's such a thing as biotech
and and really advanced. We could create advanced medicine to
stop aging. I didn't know that's a possibility.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
So I kind of.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
I wasn't wasn't.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
I was quite a you know, on.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
The spectrum, and I couldn't really talk to people much,
so I couldn't become a doctor.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I was good at.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
Math and computers, and so I went into engineering tech startups.
And at some point, I just I was in a
sabbatical and I was thinking about what matters most. I
was having this bad ankle pain for a few years,
and I was contemplating, like, Okay, this is going to
get worse as I age for everyone, you know, and
like whatever happened with that field of longevity research, you know,

(05:12):
I was researching about how to live healthier and longer,
more like on the nutrition side. I was very disappointed
with science. It's like such a soft science. We don't
really know anything. And yeah, I started looking into the
longevity field more and I realized my optimism isn't well
founded on that because it had been more than a

(05:34):
decade since I left, looked at it and it didn't
seem like it progressed more so I decided to just
change my career. It was a bit scary to leave
my career in like tech startups, apps, consumer apps. I
was good at that and I had build something, and

(05:56):
I was like, Okay, I'm starting from scratch. I'm going
to go learn biology again. And I was passionate about
it when I was younger, but I kind of had
to start from scratch. But I was like, nothing else matters, right, Like,
at least short to medium term, it's going to be
important to our health, and at least I can say
even if we don't succeed, I can say I've tried

(06:17):
my best, you know. And I yeah, that that doesn't
make sense to work on anything else because once we
can be when once we can be healthy and live longer,
then we have time to do everything else. And I
really am curious to see the future. I love life

(06:39):
and I wouldn't want to die as long as I'm healthy,
and even if I'm not healthy, Honestly, I've not been
healthy a lot of my life, so I still love life.
I just work on improving that situation, and I think
I always keep hope.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
How did you draw the connection between like I have
a rare genetic disease that's affecting me and causing like
my life to be in risk to I want to
help everybody avoiding dying in general, it seems like there's
a bit of a leap there that it takes a
certain mind to take, and I'd like to know what

(07:17):
led you to make that jump.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
And I was passionate about science fiction and a bunch
of these futuristic ideas from also learning online and other
books that are not science fiction, more popular science, and
so it just made sense to me, like why would
people suffer an age and die? But I just I
kind of always thought it's not my field, and it's

(07:42):
those guys are going to fix it, like Aubrey the
Gray and the other day I was, you know, I
was watching Ted a lot. So when Aubrey's Ted Talk
in two thousand and seven came out, I was like, Okay,
you know, this guy's got a long beard, British accent.
They've got it. You know it's going to happen. And
then I was like well, because I was more present.

(08:04):
I think most people's attention is not on it, right,
even my attention. I was like, okay, all great, but
my attention was on other things, making money, making a
name for myself, probably to prove to my bullies and
prove to you know, my teachers, my dad, whatever, that
I'm going to be successful. And like you know, I
was reading. I was brought to I was a good programmer.

(08:27):
I won this grand prize. I was a grand prize
winner in an international competition by Google. They brought me here.
I started reading pole Gram, meaning a bunch of the
top startups at the time, about thirteen years ago. And yeah,
it was just all about making apps and so on. Said,
That's kind of where I went, and my attention was

(08:48):
on that. And then having these health issues probably brought
my attention back to what really matters.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
And having a.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
Sabbatical also, you know, having a lot of time to
meditate and really just think about what matters most existence itself,
how things are going to Like the future is affecting
my present meditation moment. You know, the future I'm living into,
which is like degeneration, aging and dying. So I was like,
this is this doesn't make sense, so let's help the field.

(09:18):
And of course it's also I was driven by impact
when I realized there's no nothing else that would have
more impact. Of course, if maybe there is an exception here,
if an asteroid would come to Earth and would you know,
destroy Earth, I would work on that, right, I wouldn't
work on aging. There might be arguments that artificial superintelligence

(09:38):
is coming sooner than aging would kill most of the
humans alive, and you know, AI could kill all of
us and so on, But that's that's kind of a hypothetical.
It's pretty hard to estimate. I'm not sure. I am
struggling to figure out when that would happen, how likely
it is that it would be a bad scenario. But
I know aging is a hundred I'm going to kill us,

(10:00):
so I take a Bayesian approach. It's, you know, maybe
not one hundred percent. Now, it's we might be killed
by other things. So it's ninety nine ish or ninety ish,
like ninety nine ish percent of my attention goes towards
fixing aging, and then I also pay a little bit
of attention at other risks. Is there a comment in

(10:21):
asteroid coming? Is there you know, a pandemic that's going
to kill all lots.

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Is there there war or something like nuclear war? Is there?

Speaker 3 (10:27):
Like? I pay a bit of attention to that, But like,
what is the main thing? Aging? Okay, that's where we
kind of put most of our efforts as a society,
at least one percent of GDP one trillion dollars, maybe
on the order of a few million people working on
this as like a Manhattan Project, Apollo Project, you know
type type scenario, coordinating in a way as a as

(10:53):
a large number of people. If I was US president,
you know, I would probably go in the clar like
by the end of the century, we're going to solve aging, right,
like with the Apollo Project. But I'm not so. I
think rather than hoping to gain so much power and
do it top down, my approach and my nature too,

(11:13):
is more bottom up, at the centralized approach by the
people for the people. I'm gathering people in these communities,
as you've outlined earlier, to coordinate better with frontier technologies,
using AI, using crypto and many many of these to
solve initially focus on aging as the biggest problem and

(11:40):
solve that.

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Well. That sort of brings me to my next question,
which is when it comes to some of these like
high risk, high reward but also like very likely to
be technically successful projects, The first one that comes to
mind is cryonics. I know a Longevity Biotech Fellowship, I
had spoke with Mark Hamerlin and for just a minute online,

(12:04):
but you know we've had He's interested also in the
cryostasis or I think they're calling it biostasis. Now, it
seems like that seems like a very good bridge for
getting to point A to point B. But our chairman
Jannati has a bit of a theory that if you're
frozen to the point where you're in stasis, then maybe

(12:26):
that doesn't preserve the ins of the self. So would
you consider that something that is like a viable, viable
theory approach, because it seems like in that case that
would be a great area to put a lot of
energy into. And also I'm also with LBF, I'm hearing
about replacement biotech. One thing I had heard some people

(12:48):
say is there was a kind like e mails and
he mentioned, like all of this stuff about healthy aging
is really just a misnomer, and if we're trying to
just slow down the pace of a US getting old
and dying. We're just kind of slowing down the pace
of us getting old and dying. We're not approaching a
transhumanist reality. We're just getting healthy for a little bit,

(13:11):
but still catering into our own biology. So what do
you think about maybe like replacement and or cryostasis, or
do you also believe in healthy aging.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
I came from the mission of of course, I love life,
and I have these futuristic ambitions. I want to see
a world without aging, and then also got a bit
distracted with nutrition science and being healthier and yeah, just

(13:45):
super passionate about scientific method and trying to approach that.
And I actually did experiments on myself where I actually
did cure my angle pain that I was mentioning earlier,
for example. And I've improved a lot of things about
my body. I don't know exactly how that's that's the issue,
because they try a bunch of things, and I don't

(14:06):
know if it was a coincidence or actually causantly changed something.
But yeah, I realized this healthy aging, or like trying
to be healthier with diet and exercise and sleep and
a few interventions like that, that's not going to take
us very far so, yes, replacement is great as a

(14:27):
short to medium term solution until we figure out the
bio engineering more advanced, because we need super advanced therapies.
Like the current drugs that pharma comes out with mostly
like small molecules, some biologics here, very rarely a gene therapy.
They're doing very simple things. Mainly. We've had a lot

(14:50):
of successful infectious disease, right, but with chronic complex diseases
such as the age related diseases, Alzheimer's cancer, heart disease,
and we're barely putting a dent. We're trying to kind
of manage the symptoms a little bit. People have this
issue here, so you tack with the small molecule in
this metabolic pathway and you do that, and then something

(15:11):
else happens with deliver so you give them this and that,
and you're trying to kind of just like I see
it as this like super complex machine.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Like the metabolism, right, the.

Speaker 3 (15:22):
Group Goldberg machine. Kind of throw some wrenches in it.
It doesn't go that far. We need very very advanced
therapy such as gene therapy, cell therapies, biologics, bio electricity
and so on.

Speaker 2 (15:34):
And we're very very.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Far away from figuring this out. So that's why replacement
short to medium term it makes a lot of sense.
I actually did start out thinking about this as like,
at least going to replace all my organs and try
to live a little bit longer. Then of course, with
the brain, there's the idea of ship of tc as
replacing pieces of it that's you know, invasive with surgery,
but there's also startups working on replacing more like Sell

(16:04):
by Sell with non non surgical pathways, and those are
really interesting. It's hard, but I hope they they succeed
in that. So, yeah, replacing organs and then yeah, replacing
potentially your whole body. I know it's kind of out there,
but it's interesting to look. I'm very open to whole
kinds of ideas, right, and that could buy us more

(16:24):
time and then worst case, you know, plan that's a
kind I see it as Plan B, because I wouldn't
want to do surgery. Ideally, we have an amazing drugs
that and and gene therapies and so on that go
inside and fix everything, maybe even not on technology eventually, right,
although of course gene therapy teaching your cells are kind
of like these nan or robots to do things your

(16:46):
body is almost it's kind of close to nanotechnology. Until
we figured that out, Yeah, we might have to do surgery,
and yeah, work on replacement as plan B and it
is there is a pathway that we can see that
the tech three is not so complicated to get the
replacement that a few billion dollars seven to fifteen years,

(17:09):
you know, something like that seems feasible, maybe even faster
if we have a special jurisdiction which I'm working on
I'll tell you more about. But then plan see is
cryor preservation in case we have an accident or we
get some terminal disease, or even just age which is
a terminal disease. I like, if we get too old

(17:32):
by the time replacement is in or by the time
bio engineering is advanced enough to fix these issues. Yeah,
we can cry and preserve ourselves for sure.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yes, very good. And Lawrence, I understand that you have
a PowerPoint presentation, so please feel free to pull that up.
And in the meantime, I will share a comment from
our director of Citizen and Community Science, Daniel Tweet, who
writes health and the time to enjoy it are indeed

(18:01):
the greatest wealth, and this is what you were discussing.
Of course, even if one is not an optimal health
being alive is still better than not being alive. And
that is an important point that you made as well,
that all of us are going to be experiencing health
challenges to some extent in the course of our lives

(18:21):
and persevering through them. Figuring out ways to ameliorate them
is also extremely important. And now while Lawrence is pulling
up his slides, we also can share some links to
prior virtual enlightenment salons with individuals who are mentioned. Mark Hamalainen,

(18:44):
for example, I visited him and honest Asia Yegorova in
their Longevity Lodge in Lake Tahoe and we had the
Longevity fireside chat about the Longevity Biotech Fellowship and Mark's
thoughts about the prospects for various life extension approaches and strategies.

(19:05):
And we also had virtual enlightenment salons with Kaimika Mills
on Hydra Doo and Cryo Dow as well, so please
check those out. Here's the Cryo Dow Virtual Enlightenment Salon.
And I believe Lawrence is ready with his slides, so
please begin.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
Thank you. Yeah, so This is a concept for Viva City.
We're building an actual permanent new city, a charge of
city for longevity. It's going to have a special jurisdiction
to allow faster innovation, take away the bureaucracy, the over

(19:50):
regulation that we have in most of the developed world
where we could and want to live. So yeah, we
need a city just like the Manhattan Project had uh
Los alamos right where top experts gathered but also everyone.
It's it's it's amazing to live healthy together. When when

(20:13):
you're in a community where all the food is healthy, right,
it's easy to eat healthy by default. And when people
you see other people exercising and so on, and they
inspire me to also exercise and and kind of close
my laptop and go join them to some yoga or whatever.
There the we are social animals. The environment you're in

(20:36):
shapes you a lot, and it's it's very hard if
I'm by myself trying to have all these healthy habits.
If other people go to better like early, I can
also do that. If the lights, you know, in my
environment go red that night and so on, which we
do have that this in in this tower here in
San Francisco, as as one of the communities. I'll tell

(20:58):
you more about it. So, yeah, we want to accelerate
medical innovation first, but all innovation generally have a broad
level of autonomy in the special jurisdiction. It's also amazing
to live in an intentional city. We've done some experiments
and it's.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Been life changing for a lot of us.

Speaker 3 (21:20):
So yeah, health, of course is the most important. Everyone
everyone says health is the most important, but somehow a
lot of people is just they're not very president of
this idea. I'm happy that I am and that this
led me, even with my health issues, it led me

(21:40):
on this path, and optimistic that we can actually put
a dent in aging in the next My goal is
honestly nine years, because I'm reaching in my forties and
my parents are getting older. And yeah, I think we.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
The ambitious goal.

Speaker 3 (22:02):
And I do want to make this interact. Can we
can people actually say something or it's only chat.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
It's only it's only chat, but people can chat whatever
messages they want.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, so maybe you don't, don't. This is like a
presentation that I have physically, so people would chat out,
but you can you can write in the chat, so
if something resonates with you right there, dude, right, And
if something bores you right there boring and I I
will interactively improve the presentation and know for the future

(22:38):
as well. Feedback is great. And if you don't get
something just right there, I don't get it, and I will.
The guys will tell me, and I can I can
say more. So nobody wants to end up like this, right.
You don't want to age and be sick in a
hospital bed, which you know, eighty percent of people spend

(22:58):
or no, eighty percent of people over sixty five have
at least two age really diseases, and eighty percent of
healthcare spend is in your last year of life, generally
in poor health condition, mostly in a hospital. And also
this is healthy aging, right, Like a lot of people

(23:19):
think I want to be like this, be able to
exercise round marathons, be feeling great even though I'm old.
But actually this is not great either. I'm telling you
what you really want is something like this. If you know,
justin Timberlakes in time movie, he was presenting his mother,

(23:40):
his wife, and his daughter, right, and they all are
in perfect peak health, youthful, everyone is useful and great.
So the vision is that in this twenty thirties within
five to fifteen years.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
My goal is like.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
Nine, within five to fifteen years, we will restore youth,
just like ozembic is making the rounds and people are like, wow, amazing.
We finally have something to make people thinner and solve
weight loss the same. I hope, and in the twenty

(24:21):
thirties people will see this not perfect, not you know,
be twenty five to thirty year old, like the movie
that's something where you know, you make ninety the new
fifty or something like that. You get some rejuvenation in
the twenty thirties, even if you don't fully solve the problem.
That's the vision. So how do we get there? Luckily?

(24:42):
Of course, I'm sure many of you know that drugs
that target aging are the future of medicine. This is
a better approach. Instead of managing symptoms, we address the
root cause of disease, aging itself.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
You probably know right that.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
Aging has been slow than reversed in live animals by
dozens of pharmacitic interventions. This is possible. It's great news.
There's no such thing as dying from natural causes. Everyone
gets one of these diseases. That's exponentially all of These
diseases go up in incidents over time at an exponential rate.

(25:20):
So you're going to die from one of these. If not,
you know, probably you're going to have more after you're
sixty five, more than one. And it's not great. Of course,
all of us will have sycopinia, muscle loss, bone loss,
visional loss, all these things that doesn't feel great to
age unless we do something about it. And also it's

(25:42):
economically unsustainable. We have an inverted pyramid of more people
over sixty five now than people under five, and the
kids under five are mostly in developing nations. They're not
going to be able to sustain pensions and sick care
elderly care. Instead, let's let's flip this script. Rejuvenate people.

(26:04):
People that are now old and need you know, hospital care, hospice,
elderly care. Let's bring bring them back to youth. It's
going to be great for them. There's going to stop suffering.
It's going to be great for their kids that have
to take care of them instead of being productive, Great
for the economy, win win, win all across. It's it's

(26:25):
so much better instead of paying a huge percentage of
GDP and cost for the for elderly people and then suffering.
They can now bring their wisdom and all the talent
and that compounding knowledge over time, they can live longer,
be healthier, and contribute to the economy and actually grow it.
And I see hyper growth. I see hyper exponential growth

(26:48):
if we can rejuvenate people. So of course we want to.
There's this health spend thing, right, like we want to
extend the healthy span, healthy lifespan, but as a side effect,
of course, you also increase lifespan. I don't think it
doesn't make any sense to me, the debate of health
span versus lifespan. You can't keep people in a course
seat of health for much longer. You need to extend

(27:11):
the healthy like make people be healthy, and of course
if you're healthy, you don't die, so life plan will
be also increased to do both at the same time.
There are these promising approaches, right the damage repair approach
with sends and ob really gray and so on. There's
the cellular partial programming approach, which has done a lot
of high right with from David Sinclair's being very popular

(27:35):
to Calico and al those labs getting billions and new
limits with Brian Armstrong and and so on retro funded
by sam Aldan and so on, and Open Eye making
an actual GPD specifically for helping retro and look at

(27:55):
aging and especially the programming. Yeah, this is really cool.
And then we've talked a bit about replacement, right, this
is another approach that is little talked about, replacing tissue,
replacing organs and maybe whole body. Then there's other things
that are little talked about, that continuous hormonover saying in
Retalia we have a company and also they're setting up

(28:17):
in this antier tower in San Francisco too, a company
is doing implants. And then what should replace give you
the hormones at the level of a youth of a
young person and see if that helps with paging and
so on. I would like to explore even more ideas
by electricity and so on. Uh, and yeah, humans coordinate

(28:37):
to achieve amazing things. I've talked about all of Manhattan Project.
We need to coordinate at that levelop fucking around and really, uh,
declare war against aging, literal all out war. Like we've
seen with COVID. There was this new virus and the
people like, oh my god, so many of my friends

(28:58):
just stopped every startup they were doing. They stop other
projects and they started working on COVID testing and and
all kinds of coordination level. I think we need to
look at it this way. And you know, a lot
of us see aging as a crisis, just like the
human society. The world saw COVID as a crisis, but

(29:21):
most people don't. So it's it's pretty hard. We're shouting
in the void kind of It's it's such a small,
not not well coordinated community, and we need to do better.
And that's why I think we need to first of all,
coordinate online with things like decentralized science, We as a

(29:43):
as a community bottom up can coordinate without asking for
permission from institutions centralized institutions to fund science, execute science,
and publish science in a in a new way, using
crypto as a a layer to coordinate and create those
incentives that open science didn't used to have. You can

(30:06):
just expect people to publish everything freely and not have
any reward in terms of citations and reputation or money.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Or anything like that.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
The world works on incentives, and so crypto can create
those better incentive mechanisms. It's a new form of money,
and money is a way to coordinate people where as
a goal so we were with crypto, there's a way
to create new forms of coordination mechanisms that are also
unstoppable and censorship resistant. And with as a member early

(30:42):
early founding member of vita dal i know as the
centralized big community of over a ten thousand members, we
can coordinate using this token Vita to fund early stage
agent research, spin out longevity biotech companies as a first
example of a community being able to get something done

(31:06):
in a decentralized manner with fun dozens of projects deploy
millions of dollars to actually accelerate things from academia into
industry so that they can further be developed and reach
eventually clinical trials and have medicine on the market. You

(31:27):
can this is vita token gives you one vote, one
one token, one vote, and you can contribute Anyone can
contribute capital because it's permissionless. You don't have any of
the traditional financial issues. You can contribute a dollar, one
thousand dollars or whatever, and you get these tokens and

(31:48):
you can vote with them, and then you can sell
them if you don't want them anymore, if you don't
believe in what we're doing anymore. So it's not a donation,
but it's also not a usual it's a different kind
of thing. And then you can also earn RITA tokens
by contributing your work. It's also permission as to join
the dow and do bounties contribute your resources as well.

(32:10):
IP there ideas. Yeah, so one of our projects was
ready for clinical trials at some point, and I realized
how long it's going to take to go through clinical
trials or pharma has to put up the billions of
dollars that it takes to bring a new drive to
market and they don't really get this new approach to
medicine and this asset we had it wasn't that attractive

(32:31):
to pharma and yeah, how do you get all that money?
And how long will it take? I realized, yeah, we
need to exit the status quo as we have this
new type of organization that's online. We want to give
people not online medicine, but like real medicine. So we
need the physical jurisdiction too to get over the problem

(32:52):
of over regulation. There's this invisible graveyard people dying waiting
for medicine that would have potentially say their lives. It's
there's this paternalistic, monopolistic paradigm where you know, you only
can take a drug if the FDA, the government says

(33:13):
it's it's okay, right. It doesn't allow medical freedom. It
doesn't allow my body, my choice, my freedom to do
what I want with my body, because it punishes whoever
would give me that that medicine. And yeah, I just
I think it's it's just crazy the way it's set up.

(33:34):
I mean, I see it as like setting the speed
limit at four miles an hour out of a fear that, oh,
if you're trying to increase the speed limit, people will die.
Well if of course, more people would die if we
had the speed limit is four miles an hour right now,
because we couldn't get food into cities, we couldn't get

(33:56):
to the hospital time, and so on. It's just not
it doesn't make sense. And also we can be rigorous
in terms of safety but still move fast. The current paradigm,
I think with FDA and pharma it's actually not that rigorous.

(34:17):
I'm very disappointed safety is not that preserved. So it's
like you're just taking longer and also not being as
safe as you could. So we got to do better,
be safer and faster when it comes to developing new drugs,
and allow patients to choose. Yeah, if you have someone

(34:38):
who has a terminal disease, it's crazy that you can
allow euthanasia, right, I am for allowing people to choose euthanasia,
but why don't you also allow them before euthanasia, which
is like one hundred percent chance of death, allow them
to work with researchers and try something even if they're

(34:58):
in a comma, right, like just maybe there can be
something that can fix that. Science can evolve and they
get a chance. And of course you want to make
sure there's no small coil incentives. There's you know, not people.
You don't have people taking advantage trying to profit. So
in all jurisdiction, we want to only allow you to

(35:19):
sell things at cost, so you don't make any profit
unless you prove efficacy, but allow people to try. As
long as it's something is proven safe, then anyone should
be able to purchase that at cost. And then you
do want to also coordinate to get that efficacy data.

(35:40):
That's what matters in the end, right, and then you
can make a profit. So, yeah, the problem is the
severe overregulation. Takes billions of dollars in decades to bring
a new drug to market. There is this winding road
that makes no sense. And yeah, with ten years of inaction,
there's huge costs. That's what regulators don't see. They're great people,

(36:03):
very smart. I know a lot of them. They want
to do good. It's just that they're in a system
which only optimizes for the cost of approving a drug
a false positive, right, approving a drug that has some
side effects and maybe kills people. Right, And you're just
trying to not like you're worried about a few people

(36:26):
potentially dying if you move too fast. And then, yeah,
you don't see the cost of inaction, the invisible gravy
and the millions and millions of people dying because you
didn't approve a drug fast enough. There's ten thousand people
in just the US dying every year from cancer, where

(36:48):
otherwise they would have been saved with just the drugs
that existed that year. Right, if we just allow them
to try. I know there's a right to try, but
it's really complicated. We don't have a good system here.
So that's on the terminal disease part. But like also, yeah,
you just got to let people choose. Like some people

(37:09):
are suffering, then maybe they go to suicide because they
don't have any solution. Right, who are you to tell
tell me what I can and cannot do with my body?
And yeah, I know people might make mistakes. We do
in our city. We're going to have a filtered community

(37:29):
truth seeking approach. We're not gonna allow us make all
salesmen right away. We do want to be very riguistlent
safety to the smartest, most aligned people initially that really
can can be have informed consent. And yeah, I want

(37:50):
to see this be tried out and actually many such experiments.
We want to see a sandbox where we try out
different things and maybe the rest of the world can
see what works and incorporate that. So, yeah, the solution
this special jurisdiction, freedom to experiment, a regulatory framework that

(38:10):
allows this warp speed drug development like we've seen with COVID.
We had operation warp speed and we.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Had an advanced therapy a vaccine be developed in just
eight months.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
It could have been done in four months if we
allowed CHILDNGE trials from what I understand, And yeah, we
just got a treat aging with the same level of
urgency and create operation worp speed for Alzheimer's, for cancer,
for heart disease, for aging itself, and just be very
rigorous and safety trials and go from a promising therapy

(38:45):
to life saving drug directly. So yeah, there's said your
voice versus exit, reform versus creating a new system. And
I very much appreciate efforts such as a four ali
Aliance for Longevity Initiatives, Transmulous party, like working within the
system to have words to change the system reform, but

(39:08):
I also think maybe eighty percent of the effort should
be on reform. My focus is on a hedge. On
the twenty percent. What if What if the system doesn't
change fast enough. What if we wake up in twenty
years and we're still really really slow. It still takes
ten twenty years to bring a new drug to market.
We have this iteration feedback loop that's just so slow

(39:31):
that we realize like, oh shit, we're not going to
make it. I don't want to end up there. I
support reform, but also I'm working on the hedge. I'm
working on exit. Make this sandbox, make this special jurisdiction,
and yes, as a community, we'll have this power of leverage.

(39:51):
We have leverage. We can create our own laws and regulations.
We can self govern, Like, who are them to tell
us how we can live our life? What laws and regulations?
What how we do clinical trials? How we experiment with
our own body. If we're in a city with a
special jurisdiction where we control the laws as a community

(40:13):
bottom up, as a dow like we did out having
an actual physical jurisdiction, Yeah, like we have the right
and the levers to say it's up to us. We
live here, we say what the laws are. And I
highly recommend watching Dallas Buyer's Club, a movie that is

(40:36):
clearly a big inspiration showing how a community of AIDS
patients coordinated to create a Buyer's Club, a sort of
og protoo, a members club where they yeah, solved they
went around the FDA, solved their own issue, just direct

(40:56):
as a club by the people for the people.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
MH.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, it's it's really fascinating how yeah, community can coordinate
it and achieve major things. And then with act like protests,
act up and and others, and they've actually managed to
also lobby the FDN and and speed up approval of

(41:24):
drugs that were saving their lives. And I also started
apart from also a similar idea of instead of as
also having a community with the token, the jelly token
about to be launched. Jellyfish now coordinating not to fund
biotech companies or or aging research and start biotech companies,

(41:48):
but rather fun movie ideas and and start new new
movies you have produced them, promote them as a community.
And my most my biggest focus is on Hollywood type
drama movies that can influence millions of people, inspire them

(42:10):
about the world without aging. Honestly, all these rational arguments
I give, I don't think they change many minds. It's
all just talk. I think you need to inspire people
with the story, take them through a hero's journey. So
so movies can really scale our our ideas to people

(42:34):
that haven't heard about these things and that would be
willing to contribute to our mission. So yeah, my dream
is that we can have this warp speed for aging,
create bring new drugs to market within months on the
order of a million dollars instead of billions of dollars.

(42:56):
And it's possible. We've seen this happen, create a Los
Alamos type type thing. There's this idea of network state
bichology is furnificent where you have an online community aligned
for collective action, something like Vida, and then crowdfunds territory
around the world. You have more members and more GDP

(43:20):
you know, and uh square footage, and you become as
big as a lot of countries. And you're like, wait,
why don't we get declared as a country as this
archipelago even though it's not like a continuous geographic area.
And I think it's it's a very very cool idea.
It just you know, might take a long time to

(43:40):
get other countries to recognize pieces of their own countries
as like part of another jurisdiction. It could take decades,
and I don't have that time. So meanwhile, we thought, okay,
how do we get fast from from an idea this
online community to having an actual physical new society and

(44:01):
italicutern made these lines where he also inspired by by
biologi here we created this at Adzuzalo, one of our
first experiments. So we were thinking, okay, how do you
create something that's one order of magnitude longer than a conference,
one order of magnitude more people than a hacker house,

(44:24):
which is a bite size that's digestible, right for people
to go for in a resort two months, two hundred
people where it's a mini village, and we see how
it would feel like to live together with like minor
people in an intentional village. And so we went to

(44:44):
Montenegro in this resort and living in close proximity in
a remote location and yeah, it was life changing for
a lot of us. We had healthy food just like default, available,
exercise together, tracked our biomarker, and a lot of rituals
and it was just amazing. Better than here, better than

(45:04):
San Francisco Silicon Valley in terms of this density of
the best people and just walking around and being able
to have an awesome conversation with anyone that you cross
bats with and in this many village and wow, like
it was like we want to live here, right, And
Montenegro was open minded to create such a special jurisdiction.

(45:28):
One of our residents is now Prime Minister of Montenegro
and yeah, things are doing well. It's been two years. Agow,
it's a bit slow. So we also went to Totan.
So I'll just just to kind of talk about like
what is what is the pop up city. This thing
was the first of it's kind, popop city. So you

(45:50):
have this idea online community, then how do you get
to a new society. So we thought, okay, we do
a pop up, but then you still have more steps,
Like just because you gather for two months doesn't mean
that you have a permanent thing. Most people went back
to their lives and it wasn't ready for people to
fully move. How do we get there? So first of all,

(46:10):
we didn't have a special jurisdiction. So with Vitalia, we
went to Ratan where there was already a special jurisdiction
called Prospera, and we partnered with them and thought, okay,
Montenegro is interesting, but like, let's let's try here. Go
for two months, brought a few hundred people, then stayed
longer and thousands of people came through, and yeah, people

(46:32):
built companies during Vitalia brought therapies to market, gene therapies,
advanced therapies. We had of course, people like Abby Gray
and Brian Johnson came by. Brian also brought his father
the gene therapy and a bunch of friends and yeah,
this is happening right, like within just a few months,

(46:52):
we've seen unlimited bio be created and do a VGF
gene therapy and more and more gene therapies I started
getting created. Unfortunately there were issues and now I'm looking
for a new location and we have a Viva City
as as the name now building the city to make

(47:12):
that optional, and I would love to see.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
A lot of you there and first of all the online.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Community than in these gatherings we do all over the world,
than in permanent hubs, because I do think this is
like if you if you look at the this this
question mark, whereas it from a pop up, how do
you get to a permanent new society. I do think
we just need to do more pop ups. And also

(47:38):
with these pop ups we create permanent hubs like this tower,
which I'll show you around in a bit. So meanwhile
we're looking for a new location. We have two million
dollars bounty out prize for anyone that makes introductions to
leaders and makes it happen for us to actually create

(48:02):
a special jurisdiction, make a partnership with the country where
we have quite a broad level of autonomy, a semi
autonomous jurisdiction controlled by us, where we move in and
actually build Viva City. If you make the key introduction,
you get a million dollars. If you make the introduction
to the person that introduces us, then you get half

(48:23):
a million, and so on. If you have two orders
of separation or three levels of separation, you still get
half of the amount that the next person in the chain,
in the referral chain gets, so in total it gets
to two million. So yeah, you can spread the word

(48:46):
and even if someone you know or someone who knows
someone you know that spreads the word makes this happen
for us, then you still get a part significant probably amount.
So that's a high hope that's going to encourage you
to spread the word that we are looking for a
country to partner with the host country, and we have

(49:10):
these We have a we have a tweet that you
can find on on City of Viva Twitter or just
search my name or or yeah let me know, or
go to referral dot Viva dot city and you can
submit a referral. So now Viva Frontier Tower here in

(49:31):
San Francisco, we have a permanent hub in in partnership
with Berlin House. This there's this sixteen story building that
I'm in purchased about two months ago to inspired by
what we do and all these pop up cities where

(49:52):
instead of being in a remote location in this horizontal
resorts or village, we're trying out something different, a vertical
village in the in downtown San Francisco, we have this

(50:13):
community hub that's permanent and we're seeing it with a
pop up village. Of course, I see villages, uh, not
just as a way to try out the potential special jurisdiction,
a potential location for a city, but to also see
something like this. So if you have a co working space,
for example, you can have a launch party right when

(50:37):
it's empty, and then the next day we'll be empty.
But if you bring people for something like six weeks
like we do here, then people might get used to it.
Today we have a hackathon and this is our event
space on the second floor. It's going to take me
too long to go through the whole tower and the WiFi.

(50:58):
Would this connect? So I can give you a virtual tour,
but I do encourage you to visit, especially during the
six weeks from June twentieth until August third. We have
amazing people here. It's just mind blowing. I spend nineteen
nine percent of my time in the turiding, I just work,
meet people, discuss amazing ideas, and sleep. The idea of

(51:25):
a vertical village is it's not just a quirking space.
We have labs here, we have healthy food, We're building
a clinic. The idea is that everything you can find
in a small town you can find in the sixteen floors.
And of course after the pop up village, we hope
this is going to be a success and be permanent.

(51:47):
It is purchased, and yeah, assuming everything goes well, this
will continue, assuming financially this works out.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
But I'm very very confident.

Speaker 3 (51:58):
It looks already just the whole the whole San Francisco
area is buzzing about this. Yeah, it's it's it's already amazing.
We have also a longevity floor. We have a floor
for AI, a floor for crypto, for for arts and
music and robotics and so on, all these things, but
most relevant to you guys probably the longevity floor, which,

(52:21):
of course the goal is to acceleritate biotech, but also
be healthy by default, provide wellness to the whole tower,
healthy food, exercising together and all these things. Having an
actual clinic ad doctors therapies, peptides, exosomes and so on,
having also hyperbioicoxygen therapy and excess scanner and tracking your

(52:42):
bymarkers with with advanced panels, and storing your your blood
in a in a blood bank and stem cells and
so on. Maybe are preservation facility in here, because yeah,
a lot of people you're signed up to cry on
the area, and of course the storage would happen separate,
but just the facility to prep. And then most importantly

(53:05):
on the lungevity floor, we have a sort of incubator
to collaborate and all work against gauging, not just biotech
companies but also people create apps that help to coordinate better,
or work on advocacy right creating a new political party
or pack political action community and things like that. So
we'd love to have transhumanist party presidents here too. So yeah,

(53:29):
you have two options, work on cuting aging with us
or random fun side projects with option one you can
do another one with option to your dead. So I
very much think that option run is the way to
go work in curing aging and then you have time
to do everything else. So I would love for each
and every one of you to not just be a

(53:49):
spectator to like actually do something to coordinate as a swarm. Right,
join this private telegram group or just apply on Viva
dot city and then we'll prove you to mention that
you're from the Transmumitist party Salon.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
And yeah, we'll approview.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
You can join this telegram and coordinate at least even
if you don't have time, even if you're already working
on aging, you're nine to five, you're doing the research
or doing other things, it's still important that we have
a group to coordinate, like even when there's an announcement,
to kind of amplify it. Just every few weeks, you know,
take a few seconds to amplify an announcement, or more

(54:33):
so to change your career or more so move to
a new city and just work with us. Volunteer or
get a job, like we have job rolls out. We
need a chief marketing officer, we need the chief operating officer.
We need lawyers and programmers and all kinds of people,
not just alogists. So yeah, you can. I hope you

(55:00):
can join us. And if you have any questions, suggestions, recommendations, concerns, anything,
would love to hear in the comments and eager to
continue the discussion.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Thank you, Yes, thank you very much Lawrence for an
excellent presentation, and our audience agrees. There are numerous remarks
to this effect. We do have a question that I
think would be interesting for you to address from Mike Lasine,
who asks what did Lawrence have to do to get

(55:33):
clearance to build essentially what he calls a small town
vertical village in San Francisco. Did you need to get
city approval and or state approval?

Speaker 3 (55:44):
No, because this is a sixteen for a vertical village
for us, but we haven't modified the building lunch. Whenever
you modify something you wanted a new plug in or
a socket right, or electricity. Yes, you do need approvals,
but those are rare and they take a long time,
and we are working on some roubles. That The one
thing that the major thing we want this is a

(56:07):
commercial building and we want to also have co living
here soon, so that's we put enough application for a
permit to have mixed residential and commercial use. Yeah, that's
that's one of the major things. And of course we
want to modify things to the facade to make it
look a lot more futuristic. Have LEDs and high tech

(56:32):
stuff and make it with like green you know, grow food,
vertical farming as well on it and a lot of
a lot of things. And some of these require permits
will take a while. With San Francisco and California, it's
not fast, but it's fine, you knowwhile we occupy the
space and we have an amazing time.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah, so you expect that even though the Viva Frontier
tower is then is intended to last for six weeks,
that you will actually be in that tower for much
longer than that, since I.

Speaker 3 (57:09):
Will I'm going to build a camp at Bernemann after this,
and then I'm going to travel to small countries to
talk to government connections that I've made in the past
few months, and then hopefully settle on a location and
start building the city. Of course, I still will help
seed more such permanent hubs in every major city, and

(57:34):
it's not just this. Maybe a hotel nearby for more
residential and you know, we'll potentially have even more and
more over time. You create like a little cul de
sac or neighborhood with healthy restaurants and living and working
and clinics and everything, and it maybe becomes like a
Viva town, like a Chinatown. But for longevity, right, a

(57:59):
piece of major town, every major city where there's it's
it's all the longevity stuff is there. And on the
way to build this city, we at least got to
fill out a tower, and then more towers and other
cities and then a little Viva town and in every
major city because we have this big online network and

(58:21):
people don't necessarily want to move and they might want
to stay where they are, it's fine. We we create
something for them there too. But of course the special
jurisdiction where Viva City will be built is where the
most frontier, the most impact, the most interesting things will happen,
the best people right, the new like Silicon how Silicon
Valley is is you know, the was the frontier, the

(58:45):
new you know West, it used to be the world,
the west right, the farthest away from d C, the
newest kind of part of the US, right, which itself
was the West was the new place to go, the
same way vs. City and other I hope the other
cities like this will be built, which will be the

(59:05):
new Silicon value of the new West, the new frontier
where the best people go and the most innovation comes
out of that.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Yes, indeed, and I think it's quite promising to have
longevity hubs in every major city or major population center,
because that's how coordination on the ground begins. And from
the standpoint of political activism, I know one challenge that
Transhumanist Party faces is that we are so spread out geographically,

(59:38):
and if we were to have these hubs starting in
major population centers but spreading out, we would then have
people we could reach out to in every jurisdiction if
there's legislation that needs to be acted on, or petition
signatures that need to be gathered, or some sort of
demonstration perhaps that be arranged. So it is a really

(01:00:03):
good strategy to create these hubs first, and then we
can utilize them for multiple purposes. So thank you for
those answers, Lawrence, and doctor Jose Cordero now has some
questions for you as well.

Speaker 5 (01:00:20):
Yes, please, first of all, congratulations Lawrence and your presentation,
and also I love your drive and enthusiasm to make
things happen, so I truly truly admired. As you know,
I was in Susalu in Montenegro, and it was also
in Vitalia in Honduras. Can you explain a little bit

(01:00:45):
what has happened now with Vitalia, because Vitalia itself has
also stopped and now it is becoming Infinitas city in Roatan,
and then you have a Viva City.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
No, it's yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
So that's the first point if you if you care
to expand on that. And also I like what you
said after Burning Man, you are going to be meeting
with some people around the world, and as you know,
I have been approaching many people in different places, and
I think this is the right time for that. So

(01:01:22):
if you could tell us which are the most promising
opportunities you have found so far for Vivacity.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
Yeah. So yeah, with Vitalia we had slightly different visions,
so we split into two. And also not working with
prosper anymore, not being Honduras. There's also unrelated but in
a way relevant that not only did our partnership with

(01:01:54):
prosper not go well, but also Prosperous partnership with Honduras
or generally the jurisdictions in Honduras called Zis. Yeah, they
didn't go that well. Generally, the government was upset, a
lot of the people were upset. I think it could

(01:02:15):
have been handled better. Now of course I'm not. I'm
not a fan of the current Honduras government. The Supreme
Court declared that these jurisdictions are unconstitutional and with retroactive effect,
which makes no sense. It's really bad. But I do
think in the future there are a lot of learnings

(01:02:39):
from that. So first of all, you've got to not
just have the legal right to have a special jurisdiction
because yeah, you have a new government, or the people
might might be scared of what's going to happen and
so on. You have to also provide a lot of
value and fast to the people. They don't have the
patience to wait for promises and delays and all that.

(01:03:03):
So moving fast, bringing a lot of people quickly, a
lot of creating a lot of jobs, a lot of investment,
bring actually creating a hospital, especially when it comes to
a medical innovation zone, bringing top talent doctors, a tier
one hospital there where the locals can also benefit from it,
and they would be I think a lot happier. They're

(01:03:25):
getting some benefits, sharing dividends with them, sharing generally upside
even though it's on paper, stocks, tokens, whatever, where they
feel okay, there's some value here on paper, maybe you know,
within four years it's unlocks and this is going to
be successful and I'll be rich to like they have
a piece of the pie right where everyone grows with

(01:03:47):
the success of this city. That's that's my approach, and
it's it's also interesting how encrypto as well. You see
a token recreated and then there's an air drop today
in community, everyone is brought in and it's like instead
of having, you know, one hundred percent of a pie
that will not succeed and will get shut down, it's

(01:04:11):
much better than I have, like eighty percent of a
pie that will will grow big and be successful.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:04:17):
So I very much believe in like sharing, sharing with
with the locals so that they're happy, they feel there's
a lot of value in this, so they won't get
shut down. And I do hope that these jurisdictions in
Honduras will continue as the new government. I mean, there's

(01:04:38):
an election and maybe there's going to be a new
government and maybe things are going to work out, and
I really do hope. So I wish Pusper the best
and all the other jurisdictions, and I hope more will
be able to be created. There's Morazan and Kida. There's
three radictions in hundres, and I do hope more can

(01:05:02):
be created and more competition. I'm not so interested in Hunduras.
I I mentioned Montenegro. I tried not to mention other
names much where we haven't done much yet publicly. I'm
definitely looking around the Caribbean a lot, and I'm connected

(01:05:23):
to a bunch of the leaders in these countries, small
countries in the Caribbean, a little bit South America, and
then Eastern Europe as well as a big focus just
a few of the Estern European countries that are not
in the U. And then yeah, we have an option
in in Asia, we have an option in Africa, but

(01:05:45):
they're not a high priority because they're far from more
all communities, namely in the US and Europe, and it's
it's harder for our people to move. And but I
still I'm open to pretty much anyone in the world.
It's just amount of prioritization, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:06:04):
And there is also another initiative that you probably know
as well, called Immortalist. Immortalist is also looking for a
place where to start up a new city with a
new law and up to push for these longevity ideas.
Have you been in contact with them or do you

(01:06:27):
know this or other initiatives?

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Yes, yes, so we're kind of overdue to chat more.
I did not meet Wallace in person, and I think
in Singapore and then after the Network State conference maybe
the Network School too. But yeah, I definitely should chat

(01:06:50):
more with them. And yeah, I'm eager to see what's
happened just building here in side Francisco, And yeah, I hope,
I hope they can come. I know you're closer to them,
so I hope they come by here.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
And I do believe Wallace Hamilton is or at least
was in the YouTube chat and he remarked favorably upon
your presentation, Lawrence, So I think there are definitely opportunities
for the two of you to connect. And we also

(01:07:34):
have Mark Hamilton who stated really potent points were being
made regarding your presentation, and he also pointed to severe
overregulation in the United States being one hundred percent of
the problem. He writes to cure EGE related diseases, we

(01:07:55):
mister big bureaucracy, starting with the FDA, and I'm curious
if you see this as a strategy to get around
some of the barriers with the FDA and motivate reform
after certain treatments or a more expedited approach to experimenting

(01:08:21):
with and approving these treatments is demonstrated to be effective
in these longevity jurisdictions longevity cities. Then perhaps in countries
like the United States, the governments could take a second
look at the processes with the FDA and liberalize them

(01:08:42):
and make those treatments also available to their own citizens.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
Yeah, exactly, that's one point. Severea overregulation FDA is a problem.
We need to exits and show a better way. And
then you know, of course people can come to our
special jurisdiction, come to the West City in the future
and get these therapies. But imagine what's gonna like, how

(01:09:14):
is it going to look like when your neighbor in
the US goes to this remote location and comes back
rejuvenated or you know, they don't have Alzheimer's anymore. They
you know, and you're seeing, okay, but my father also
has Alzheimer's. I cured it, like over there in some

(01:09:35):
other country and this other jurisdiction they're going to demand
be like, what do you mean? Like the US needs
to create work speed again. Right, like the COVID just
and pass it through the FDA pat so that we
can have it here in the US too. Everyone will
demand this rejuvenation curing these age diseases or improving them

(01:09:59):
a lot book where it's like it's going to be
a no brainer, right, So if they will be lobbied,
there will be huge advocacy efforts for this.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
Yes, indeed, and hopefully that will be the outcome that arises. Now,
I think a lot of our audience members are curious
about Frontier Tower and essentially the logistics of the event
that you will be putting together in the next six weeks.

(01:10:36):
So what will that look like in terms of people
who want to come there, people who want to take part?
How should they essentially proceed in making arrangements. Are there
like different experiences, different tiers of participation that could happen

(01:10:56):
in the Frontier Tower event.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
Yeah, here's the poster. Yeah, Well to show it better.
So it's six weeks. There's three tracks of two weeks each.
So we have the Longevity track first with the summit
at the beginning. So we're opening ceremony like people arrive

(01:11:24):
on the June twentieth, then opening ceremony on June twenty first.
Then we have June twenty twenty three the Longevity Summit,
so it starts with that. The rest of the two weeks,
we'll do a bunch of self organized workshops, you know,

(01:11:47):
the community the residents here will put obsessions. Some are
more intellectual, where you teach people something like hack your
own genome or whatever, workshops or talks or circle discussions.
Some are more lifestyle, you know, where we do yoga together,

(01:12:07):
we meditate, or have a book club, running club, writing club,
all kinds of things like that, accountability partnerships and so
on and so on. We've that's that's been my favorite
part of Zuzzalu Italia Zelar City and all these that
we've created. It's just the the you know, coloring aspect

(01:12:31):
with like minded people. My life has improved so much.
I couldn't really see myself live any other way at
this point. I got to be surrounded by my people.
Then we have the AI track also two weeks, then
the crypto track also two weeks. There is a bit
of a thing here where it's like it's actually all

(01:12:52):
of it is cross disciplinary. Of course, we bring AI
and crypture into the longevity track. Of course we bring
longevity and crypto into the AI track and so on.
It's just more of a if you're really most interested
in one and it only come for two weeks or
just for two days for a summit, then you know
that's when you come. So the AA Summit is actually
in the middle July twelve thirteen because the first weekend

(01:13:16):
we'd have been forth of July amazing Independence Day barbecue.
First of July we have we have a wedding of
one of our community members that actually came to Suzalo.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
Then they.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
The guy proposed in one of the Suzalo town hall
and town halls that are organized and then they so
they got engaged there and then they're going to have
the wedding here in the tower during the popop. I
love to see that. We also have an actual baby
that was created, and startups, a lot of startups. I
love to see this. The best part is the connections

(01:13:56):
that people create. This is not a conference, right, It's
not like a six week conference. It's something different in
a conference. It's just I can I can't really do
conferences anymore. It's like it's a bit annoying, like you
just change a business card.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
I don't even really know you.

Speaker 3 (01:14:14):
It's so short. All the lectures, nobody who listens to them.
They're on their phone and or their laptop or whatever.
People socialize a bit, but it's so superficial versus living
together people for six weeks, eight weeks, two months or longer.
And the thing is that we go to many of
these so like we kind of develop relationships.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Even longer term.

Speaker 3 (01:14:37):
Sometimes I just don't even know what someone does, like
until the end of the thing, where we just build
such an amazing friendship and we talk about all kinds
of ideas, but I might not know their exact job,
And then I sometimes found out that towards the end,

(01:14:58):
I like, oh, actually, you know you work for this
company that actually we should have a partnership with, And
then we do because we've already built an amazing connection. Yeah.
Then we have healthy food every day, like lunches included.
We have an incubator program across the six weeks, demo
day at the end, so it's you learn how to

(01:15:21):
picture startup, how to fundraise, how to build product, how
to talk to customers, all these things, and actually have
the top investors. Being in silicon value. Here you have
a demo day where you can you can get in
front of them raise money. We also have an other
parallel trucks across the six weeks from each of the communities. Here,

(01:15:42):
the robotics floor will do a robotics track. We have
a neurotech track to measure your brain age and all
these things, a bunch of devices to play with. There's
the lab, right, we can actually build a project in there.
There's an arts and music track. I want to actually
learn how to mix music over the six weeks and

(01:16:04):
so on. It's just we Yeah, it's it's life, and
it's also good for the mission. That good for the
soul too. And yeah, you don't have to come for
the six weeks. You can come for just a little bit.
I do worn new a lot of people. A lot
of times people have come, and I'm sure some of
you have seen this where you come for like a

(01:16:26):
few days or a week or two, and then they're
like then people keep trying to you know, postpone their
flights and then they have a hard time with accommodation
because someone else booked.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
It after Like, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (01:16:37):
Encourage the legal faith. Actually our price. Unfortunately, we do
have these kind of tiers because we need to know
exactly how many people, So we will have from June
tenth only a few spots reserved and the price will
go up. So actually, if you fly now, you can
hold your spots for a bit longer. But yet June

(01:16:57):
tenth is when the price goes up. It is the
last day of the standard rate and it gets into
labor and we're not sure how many people we can
approve after that.

Speaker 1 (01:17:09):
Yes, June tenth, so that's in two days. And one
thing to keep in mind also is airplane tickets become
more expensive if one chooses flights that are approximate in time.
Like I had a situation where I wasn't sure about
my schedule for attending Vitalist Bay and I ended up

(01:17:31):
ordering a flight about two weeks before a particular conference,
and it cost me essentially five hundred dollars for a
round trip flight not a long distance between Reno and Oakland.
And usually I could get a flight like that for

(01:17:51):
under one hundred and fifty dollars both ways, So that
is important to consider.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
I forgot to mention TLEs Bay. It was just ended
a few weeks ago in Berkeley. We had a two
month gathering just of vitalists, so all longevity focus, which
is you know, a smaller community. I like to have
this prot disciplinary approach. A lot of people that are
in AI or in crypto also want to live longer,

(01:18:19):
and there are ways for them to help us. We
do need to use AI tools and and you know
we do need them as engineers in these companies. And
so a lot of people that are just normally in
a we think longevity is cool, but like you know,
I'm not a biologist. No, no, no, you can be
around us and then uh, you know, actually work on
AI for for one of the longevity companies or uh

(01:18:43):
yeah with crypto things like Vita do things like Viva
City to be governed and fundraised with crypto and so on.
Uh and it helps the mission. But yeah with vitalless
by it was also really amazing to be with just
people that true, true vitalists dedicated to this mission, without

(01:19:07):
all the debates about like oh healthspad or you know
what about like yeah, there's you know, death keeps life
meaning and like yeah, we want to live a bit longer,
but not that much longer, Like it's fine that we
lie one day, like, come on, life is definitely good.
That is definitely bad, Like it's amazing when you're just
with people that see this.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Yeah, yes, absolutely. And by the way, Josh Universe has
a compliment for you, He writes, Lawrence is one of
the most genuine people out there. So thank you, Josh.
I can second that since you and I actually happened
to be on the same plane going to rad Fest

(01:19:50):
from Reno to Anaheim, and it was just sheer coincidence
that we happened to be on the same flight and
we had a great conversation on the way there. Now
we also have a question from Luis Arroyo, who writes,
how could or could these types of alternative environments and

(01:20:12):
communities be made accessible to those who wanted And what
are the chances in your view of pop up city
or village like this being established in a place like
New York City, another population center in the US.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
Yeah, accessibility as a big focus. We've always made it
possible for a lot of people to join, regardless of
financial circumstances. We have scholarships available and we've yeah, we've
just given way more scholarships than then then then we

(01:20:52):
had funds for honestly, like we Yeah, we just tried
to make this life changing for a lot of us
and sparked this this movement. So yeah, we still have
some scholarships available. It's not like perfect at this point,

(01:21:12):
Like financially it's a bit tougher to give like full scholarship.
But if people you know, cover some costs at least
food for example, then then that's good. Or yeah we
have some for really exceptional people we can we can
still cover a full scholarship.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
Excellent. And also I'm curious and.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Regarding New York City, yes, we of course want to
have a pop up and a permanent hub there too.
I am focusing on La first though after San Francisco.
La is important because of Hollywood. We bring these ideas
to Hollywood, then they spread these ideas to everyone else.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
I just returned from a trip to the LA area
yesterday and it is an interesting place. I would say
there are potential techno optimists. Of course, is a few
transhumanists I know reside in the LA area, but there
are other techno optimists. There's a nice Google campus there

(01:22:12):
that I visited, and also Google has its autonomous vehicles.
They're branded as Waymo vehicles that are open for people
to take rides in in various parts of LA, including
the downtown area and the northwest suburbs of Los Angeles.

(01:22:35):
So I availed myself of the opportunity to take three
rides in Waymo autonomous vehicles. I think there will be
people there who have more immediate experience with recent emerging
technologies who may be drawn to something like a longevity

(01:22:55):
pop up city as well. We also have a common
from my clausine, it's amazing what deathasts tell themselves to
rationalize dying. And that's in regard to all those people
who say, well, we want to have greater health span,
but not greater lifespan. And my explanation for this is

(01:23:17):
these are flimsy rationalizations from people who want to seem normal,
who want to see mainstream and conform to what they
think the predominant opinion is. Even if that doesn't really
make logical sense, they want to try to make it
seem logical to them in their minds, so they make

(01:23:39):
these pro death statements even though they're not against certain
technologies for health extension. But the way to overcome that
is for that view to no longer be mainstream for
there to be hubs communities where the opposite views health

(01:23:59):
that death is wrong and we should do everything we
can to fight it. So thank you for working on this.
And Josh Universe says we need to Viva City pop
up in Miami for crypto governance systems, and Zach says
they should focus more on Miami as well. So that's

(01:24:22):
another suggestion. It seems that people want these pop up
cities near either where they live or urban centers they
consider important. So now, and.

Speaker 3 (01:24:36):
My answer to that is, okay, build one. Uh you know,
we need people to scale these. I can't do them myself.
So what like, we can support you and building a
in your city, not just the pop up, but actually
use the pop up to see a permanent space either

(01:24:57):
least long term or bought the space real estate. And
then yeah, people passing by that place can always go
in and get a membership. Or you can even have
a storefront like a coffee shop that instead of just
being a coffee shop, you can add some you know,
NMN coffee or whatever, you can make it a longevity

(01:25:21):
new tropics bar or something as well. And then and
then in the back or downstairs or upstairs or whatever
you can members section with, co working with maybe even
longevity clanic, wellness clubs, social clubs, soho house. It doesn't
have to be a sixteen story building like in San Francisco.

(01:25:42):
But I like, I do love this verdical village type thing.
And it's actually, in my opinion, easier to raise the
money to do something ambitious and brave like this then
to have something small and have like your mom and
pop business.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
Kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:59):
Yeah, speaking of raising money, I would be curious to
hear you discuss that to a greater extent. How were
you able to raise the funds to purchase a sixteen
story building? What did that entail? Whom did you need
to persuade for that?

Speaker 3 (01:26:16):
So we've historically its always fully funded by Italic the
then Vitalia, we had also VCS and Injil investors us
on we're building this amazing business and and with with
Viva City it's just a split so we have the
same investors and the business model. Just if you want,

(01:26:40):
I can quickly give a point on that. It's not events,
of course, it's the fact that we're going to build
this big network of people. We're building a one stop
shop for longevity, a product where you go online and
not just be part of a group chat, but rather
you can have everything there.

Speaker 1 (01:27:04):
Oh it looks like you went on mute. There you
are sorry, just.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
My my AirPods one of them went out of batteries.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
So no problem, we can still hear you clearly.

Speaker 3 (01:27:18):
Yes. Yes, So first, like thistility wastop that we're building,
you can go to this one location, have a membership
and and have blood tests included, longevi consultations, things that
you can do today as well. People really need something
to do now. And of course in a in a

(01:27:39):
sort of partnership and diagram with Vita Dao and all
these other things to also direct some of the capital
into funding research that can actually stop for reverse aging eventually.
And then also once we have a special jurisdiction, we
will capture a percentage of the upside from these therapies

(01:28:00):
that can be you know, given to billions of people.
Can capture all of value too, So it's also like
a piece of trillion dollar quadrillion dollar kind of business
industry longevity once it succeeds. Then also when you build
a city, it's really interesting because you're starting with land
that is very cheap undeveloped under a dollar square foot,

(01:28:22):
and then you can get that to a point where
if you have a lot of people in Hong Kong,
Dubai kind of level thousands of dollars per square food.
So you have potentially thousands x or one hundred thousand
X return potential like like with the VC funded startup
or just the land. But then you have downside protection

(01:28:43):
because you know, if you fail, a startup can go
to zero land, you can still sell it probably for
the SIMOONTI boughtit, or if you developed it can even
be great, great return there, even though it's not VC level,
it can still be great. And so yeah, real estate
is interesting like venture real estate is even more interesting.

(01:29:04):
Making a city the real estate company also is really fascinating.
So you have this big network, the membership fees, the
cryptotoken aspect and so on, then the longevity therapeutics and
the real estate of building a new city. It's it's
I've never seen a business model like this. It's unprecedented.
A return profile they expected value for example from the

(01:29:25):
land thing is is much higher than usual because you
have that downside protection. They expected value of the longevity
therapeutics is like huge, right that nothing like it with
maybe the exception of superintelligence. And then yeah, crypto networks
can grow really big and the fast growth and a

(01:29:46):
huge return, so that that's I'm very happy. I've I've
never seen a business model like this, and it's it's
been easy fundraising. Then on the tower itself, it's it's
an ambitious for project. We have a partnership with Berlin House,
so we helped bring in the money and the people,
but we were it's not owned by us directly. Yeah,

(01:30:11):
it was pretty pretty fast to raise the money high
network individuals with this vision of like an empty building
downtown San Francisco, very cheap compared to what it used
to be because real estate after COVID has gone down,
commercial real estate is.

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
Is a very very low.

Speaker 3 (01:30:30):
So yeah, people don't really go to the office anymore
and zon. But this is a new concept, right, it's
a vertical village. People want to be here and they
want to they are paying membership. We already have a
few hundred members in the tower generally. So yeah, the
bet is that and I the bet so far has

(01:30:52):
been has been looking great, So it's it's looking successful
so yeah, it was an argument that we made. And yeah,
with all our pedigree and things have done in the past,
and with the partnership with Berlin House, these guys Jacob
and Christian and s HP from Berlin, they have also

(01:31:13):
amazing the degree and their amazing guys, amazing partners they
brought in, They put in their own money, they brought
in a lot of their previous investors. And yeah, I'm
very happy with the outcome.

Speaker 1 (01:31:29):
Yes, thank you for that discussion. And it looks like
quite a vibrant place thus far, just from what you
showed us. I'm curious after the six week event, if
somebody wants to say, reserve or room at the Frontier Tower,
would they be able to do that for a more

(01:31:50):
extended period of time. Or on the other hand, if
someone travels to the area and decides to stay somewhere
else at a hotel or an airb it'd be would
they be able to visit the Frontier Tower and perhaps
participate in some later events that are held there or
interact with the residents there if they're interested in longevity

(01:32:12):
or AI or cryptocurrencies or other emerging technologies.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
Yeah, that's the plan. And also we encourage you to
come at this inaugural historic pop up village. I know
that people procrastinate if they know that they can come later,
like you never know, Like first of all, you want
to be at there at the beginning. You want to

(01:32:38):
be there in this concentrated period, and then hopefully it'll
be successful and even even more successful within a few years.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
You never know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:46):
And so yeah, there's no better time to come than
the six weeks. The plan is that yes, you will
be able to reserve an office and if actually also
a bedroom. Was the permits are in yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:33:06):
Yes, thank you, And presumably you have yet to secured
the residential permits. So for this initial six week event,
would you expect that people would need to get their
own hotel accommodations elsewhere in the area.

Speaker 3 (01:33:23):
So there's a hotel nearby that is taken over for
a few months with thirty rooms. Then we have a
hakkaton for here. We have six week hakaton as well,
where there's some private offices that allow people to nappen temporarily.

(01:33:44):
We have a bunch of housing options. Some people also
offered us like three rooms in their houses for our
scholars when we give a scholarship and yeah, we're quite
full in terms of housing options. Ideally, people find their
own and we have a telegram grouper. Some people coordinate
to get places nearby and live together too, But yeah,

(01:34:11):
we can help a bit, so don't hesitate to apply
and get in touch.

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Yeah, yes, thank you. This reminds me a bit of
the situation with Vitalist BAE. Vitalist Bay did have some
housing at the Lighthaven campus, but it filled up very quickly.
So I ended up attending four of the eight Vitalist
Bay conferences, and I was staying in a different hotel
or airbnb in Berkeley every time, and I ended up

(01:34:40):
walking around quite a bit and becoming fairly well acquainted
with the town of Berkeley. So that was an interesting experience,
I would say probably for most of our viewers. If
you're interested in attending a any of the Frontier Tower events,

(01:35:02):
do start looking at hotel accommodations, and if you're interested
in exploring any of the options that Lawrence mentioned, get
in touch with the appropriate people, join the telegram group.
But yes, it does take some creativity to figure out
something that works for oneself in that kind of situation,

(01:35:25):
and I do hope you get the residential permits eventually,
because that would be a massive convenience to the residents
if they can just reserve a room in the same building.
I know, some of my favorite conferences were held in
hotels where I could get a room in the exact
same building and then I can just come downstairs for

(01:35:45):
the conference. Now, I do wonder if art ramone has
any questions or comments.

Speaker 6 (01:35:56):
Just that this business model kind of reminds me of
a lot like artist communities that sort of build up
in kind of lower end areas, usually as artists lofts,
but then broke artists live in the artist loft and uh,
but then they get accused of generified area. You know,

(01:36:19):
they kind of bring up bring it up economically, and
then they get accused of you know, gentrifying the area
and getting rid of you know, poor people in the area.
So it's would that be a problem where where your
location is at, I mean, is our housing in that
area was strictly uh just office buildings that are just underutilized.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
There is housing the area, There are hotels, but also
apartment buildings. Things are expensive in San Francisco.

Speaker 1 (01:36:52):
But where.

Speaker 3 (01:36:56):
This area is not great at sixth and Market street.
It's getting way better, is getting cleaned up. And that's
one of the things that the reason was also not
great is because during COVID people stopped going to the office.
Then the restaurants and every business nearby run out of business.
So it's like super vacant on the commercial areas, and

(01:37:17):
so a lot of homeless people have kind of you know,
made it their home. But now we're bringing back people
were reinvigorating the area, and yeah, brands probably went down
in the area and now they're probably going to get
back up. But like, even why can you do. Let's
supply and demand, right, Like if more people want to
live here and it's better, then yeah, the prices go up.

(01:37:41):
The way to do it, of course is to own
a piece. And we with only the tower too, is
it's it's about giving it to the community to govern
it with the cryptotoken, and everyone can can own a piece.
And yeah, just the key is to get in early
so that you have a piece, and then even though
the prices go up, you financially are also benefiting from

(01:38:04):
like writing that wave with the value that you also
are creating by coming there and especially coming early, you
create more value because you know, and anyone can come
when it's already successful. The early adopters that come when
it's not clear if they will be successful, they deserve

(01:38:25):
and they have the biggest impact.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
I deserve more.

Speaker 3 (01:38:29):
Upset. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:38:32):
I remember going to certain areas in Dallas and there
were sort of areas that got artifically gentrified and put
it that way, and it kind of got up a
bar scene and it was very popular place called Deep.

Speaker 3 (01:38:49):
Lum But then things turned and.

Speaker 6 (01:38:52):
They kind of look back down and when they kind.

Speaker 3 (01:38:57):
Of people left.

Speaker 6 (01:38:59):
So it could be a bit of a risk, you know,
going into the area like that.

Speaker 3 (01:39:06):
So yeah, christ by experience.

Speaker 1 (01:39:10):
Yeah, indeed. Well, thank you Art Ramon and Lawrence and
now Zach. I know you have other questions you want
to ask Lawrence, so please go ahead.

Speaker 4 (01:39:22):
I've actually felt like this was pretty comprehensive. I was
really interested in everything he's said so far. I think
this may be a one point where I don't actually
have an additional question, but this has been great so far.

Speaker 1 (01:39:38):
All right, well, let us continue for the next fourteen minutes.
And Daniel Tweed was wondering, when you were in that
room with the more ornate wallpaper, do you know who
the faces on that wallpaper.

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
Aren't I don't. I was wondering that myself too. I
just haven't had the time to to ask for looking
through it.

Speaker 4 (01:40:02):
Yes, okay, maybe I got something. So can can you
tell me a little bit about So what is going
on with Prospera? Like I felt so bad thinking about
if I wanted to kind of google what's going on
with the tension between you and Prospera, Like am I
searching for drama or am I not? But at the
same time, I feel like it may be something that's

(01:40:23):
very interesting for us to know with what is issue
with Prospera Because we have some members of the Trumpet
of the Transhumenist Party. They're saying like, okay, well, you know,
maybe Siamara has some points that the previous Conservative government
was a little bit too quick to jump the gun
on saying we should have this freedom zone. But I've

(01:40:43):
always supported Prospera's mission, and I actually was sort of
late to just finish that Don't Die documentary and see, okay,
he had a procedure done on Prospera. So what was
your issue lawrence with Prospera? And if you could say
as much as you can or as you like to
with what is what what is holding them back? That

(01:41:05):
made you say that that's not the place to have
your vision enacted in, right, So.

Speaker 3 (01:41:15):
It's it's at this point it's harder, right because, as
I mentioned, the Supreme Court of Honduras declared that these
zones is that is, are unconstitutional, and I hope that
will there will be a way around that, there will
be a some kind of solution, and I'm pretty confident,

(01:41:38):
like the guys at Prospero smart and they can probably
figure it out. And I this is very important. We
need more of these, Like the original vision was that,
Like the reason we went to Montenegro too is just
to have another one. It's just a slightly different approach.
I'm a lot more you know, bottom up kind of
by the people for the people out governing the city.

(01:42:04):
So we just have slightly different approaches. So that's one
reason we split up. And I'm open minded generally. I'm
hoping to see that can.

Speaker 4 (01:42:17):
You elaborate what you mean by this by the people
for the people, because I feel like one of the
sort of complaints I've heard from at least the area
that's sort of against Prospera is like, well, these are
these greedy capitalists coming in and they're offering sure, a
little bit more than base wage, but hey, they're building

(01:42:38):
buildings that are twice the local building code. They're doing
their own thing. Who knows what's going to happen to
our community. It's these rich white tech bros coming in
from another country. These aren't our people. So you know,
when you say by the people, for the people, maybe
you could elaborate a little bit what you mean by that.

Speaker 3 (01:43:00):
Yeah, you know, there's this idea of governing a city
like a company, the miratory tarian approach. Singapore is run
you know, really well as as an authoritarian regime. I
just it's just not really my vibe. Maybe it's more efficient.
I just also think when it comes to like Prosperous

(01:43:21):
a general chartered city, right, my focus is on longevity
medical innovation. When you if you have any side effects
and you know some you can be accused of something
like when you do a lot of trials, or even
when it comes to the COVID vaccine for example, and

(01:43:42):
like there's billions of people that have taken vaccine and
then also people die every day, and so it will
happen that someone will die right after taking the vaccine
or the day after, and it might look like, you know, correlation,
but it doesn't necessarily mean it's causation that someone died
right after taking this scene or this other medicine or song.
Of course, you can actually look into and figure out

(01:44:04):
if there is a causal relationship there. But you know,
actually in the court of public opinion, with mainstream media,
with pr and you know Western world being very much
pro democracy and so on, I can see the accusations
of like, oh, you know, someone went there and had

(01:44:24):
the side effector or died because because of the therapy,
and even though there's no proof, right, it's just it's all.
It can also just be like words, accusations, right, and
people don't really go into look into the science or something.
They will just say, of course, something bad happened, and
whose fault is it? Well, this leader, you know, there's

(01:44:45):
the CEO to the city, and like it looks you know,
like a dictator. It looks bad. It's oh, dictator doing
experiments on people. I'm really worried about that that kind
of way of looking at it. So I'm I'm not
sure that's a good approach, and I do also know
that when you have that approach, the leader of the

(01:45:06):
city will have an incentive to do some of the
same things that are done everywhere else and not take
risks because it's it's ultimately their head that falls if
something goes wrong, even if they didn't do anything wrong.
It's just like they will care very much about pr
whereas when it's really controlled by the people, when it's

(01:45:28):
how it's it's all democratic control bottom up about what
is allowed and what isn't there. Now, of course it's
not a good idea too. It's not efficient to vote
about everything and have everything be a popular road. Like
if you build a bridge, you don't want the people
in that city to vote where ah Bolt goes like no, no, no.

(01:45:49):
You just make sure that that's a sort of layer
of accountability where the people oversee or sort of make
sure that nothing crazy is going on. But you go
to a company and maybe you have some representative representative
democracy or even what I like more is like liquid

(01:46:12):
democracy where you delegates and you have reputation based things,
where you have more more like the people who have
done a lot in construction have more of a say
on on that bridge, or more specifically on which company
will get the contract to build a bridge, and in
the company is run you know, like a company more
top down, and as we've seen, works works the best.

(01:46:32):
I'm all for going with what works best so companies
can execute and then the people decide how they're how
they live their lives. So that's that's the approach. But
also there's another thing to be mentioned here. The whole
point at the beginning was to create another one because
we were worried what if Prosperts is going to get

(01:46:52):
shut down. We were seeing or Morazan or the other
one or hit Orda, these jurisdictions in Honduras. We were
saying that Honduras was talking about shutting them down, right,
So it was actually a good idea for us to
go to Motanegar and other places to try to create

(01:47:13):
new ones. It's just it's been a bit slow. So
we kind of also did a partnership with prosper and
that's that's fine. That that we're going our separate ways now,
Like I really think we need to focus on creating
other ones, especially now since there's even bigger problems in Honduras.
I do one there was problems to go away. I
do one prosper to continue and succeed, but I'm just

(01:47:37):
going to focus somewhere else. And and we have slight differences,
but also it's good to have diversity of approaches. Yeah,
and we have a focus on medical innovation. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:47:53):
It sounds like part of the reason you were saying though,
with hundreds in prosper in general, though, is that there
may be too much of a centralized power structure such
that it would perhaps be not enough medical experimentation because
there would be a negative incentive that one person at

(01:48:16):
the top would have certain repercussions happen to them, and
therefore they would want to have an artificial level of
suppressing some level of experimentation, even though in that scenario
it would be still far better than what's going on in,
for example, the United States. Is that correct?

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
Yeah? Yeah, Yeah, incentives matter a lot, right, So when
you have a group of people that are self experimenting
and self determining their own laws and regulations, you might
say that that group of people is a bit crazy
that they are allowing themselves to and injecting themselves with things. Right,
But it's kind of up to them, Like who are

(01:48:57):
you to tell them what they can and cannot do?

Speaker 4 (01:48:59):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:49:01):
Well?

Speaker 4 (01:49:01):
Sure, but what would you say to the people that
say that sort of top down structure is what's protecting
those people and that if we have it like not,
if we don't have this centralized structure that's controlling that protection,
then people are going to have more negative effects and

(01:49:22):
that we need some sort of level of accountability. And
in your ideal situation, what is the level of accountability?
Does it come down to the true and cap idea
of you sign a waiver? So there you go, I.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
Have I think there's a great framework here where first
of all, you have a basic basis of common law
where you have courts judges and they can if someone
has caused harm to someone else given a drug that
that was toxic or something, you can punish them as
the judge can say, Look, if you've done a poor job,

(01:50:00):
you you lied or or you didn't do the proper
things right and you get punished, But that doesn't prevent harm.
That only punishes harm after So you want to also
prevent harm. So on top of this basics basis of
common law, what you want is a regulatory framework that
find that optimal balance between like how much regulation you want,

(01:50:25):
how much oversight you want. So it's not a free
for all where you just allow people to do whatever
you require regulatory insurance before selling a drug to someone else. Right,
so that if you just have one insurance company that's
basically FDA, right, FDA is like an insurance company in

(01:50:46):
that sense of like an insurance company that insurance liability
or like regulatory insurance. They would have to pay if
harm gets if there's someone who's harmed, because that person
can sue and get money, and so the liability insurance
will have to pay out. And of course an insurance
company wouldn't want to pay out, so they say, I

(01:51:08):
will only ensure this this drug or this company, therefore
allowing it to be sold only if it follows some
basic safety checks, right or like you know, kind of
determine that that optimal level where it's because if you
have multiple insurance companies, then they compete. So if one
insurance company is too much like the FTA and it

(01:51:29):
just has all this bureaucracy and nonsense try like asking
for all these things that take a lot of time
and a lot of money, then their competitor is going
to win the business, right, so you also have competition
to make sure you're fast and you're cheap. So then
you're seeing the cost of inaction too. You're accounting for
it in the incentive structure by allowing competitions. So it's

(01:51:49):
not monopolistic and patternalistic. It's really just what's rational. How
you want to make sure that people don't get hurt,
not only because you personally you want to, but because you,
as the insurance company would lose money. Right, So there's
the capitalist incentive there as well to do a good

(01:52:09):
job on insuring safety. So you don't leave people to
their own you know, just oh you signed the liability waiver.
I do want more and more medical freedom, but I
think this is a good level common law basics, and
then requiring liability insurance and then on top of that
when it comes to efficacy, because that's also it's not

(01:52:31):
just about safety. People are worried about snake oils as selling.
So with efficacy, you just don't allow people to take
a profit. It's just sell out cost until you prove
efficacy and then you can make a profit.

Speaker 1 (01:52:43):
Yes, and I will say that, yes, I will say
I had an extensive conversation about this with Trey Goff
of Prospera back in twenty twenty four at Longevity sum
at Dublin, So those who are interested in finding out
more please look up that conversation on my YouTube channel.

(01:53:03):
Tray GoF Goff and Lawrence thank you very much for
joining us today. Unfortunately our time for this salon is
coming to an end, though we have had a fascinating
and wide ranging conversation, and thank you for the presentation
and the little tour you provided a frontier tower. Hopefully

(01:53:24):
all of us will be able to make it over
there at some point at least, and those who are
thinking of coming for the six week conferences, the six
week event that's coming up, act quickly because there are
advantageous rates now in the next two days and it'll
be easier to find accommodations as sooner you begin your search.

(01:53:47):
So thank you everyone for joining us today, and I
hope we can all live long and prosper

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