Tobias Teufel

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Greetings and welcome to the United States Transhumanist Party Virtual
Enlightenment Salon. My name is Jannati stolier Off the second
and I am the Chairman of the US Transhumanist Party.
Here we hold conversations with some of the world's leading
thinkers in longevity, science, technology, philosophy and politics. Like the

(00:21):
philosophers of the Age of Enlightenment, we aim to connect
every field of human endeavor and arrive at new insights
to achieve longer lives, greater rationality, and the progress of
our civilization. Greetings, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to our
US Transhumanist Party Virtual Enlightenment Salon. Today is Sunday, September fourteenth,

(00:43):
twenty twenty five, and we have a fascinating conversation in
store for you on three D printing, additive manufacturing, other
related emerging technologies and their implications for policy. How can
these technologies be used to achieve greater abundance for all?
Joining us today in addition to myself is our director

(01:06):
of Visual Art, ar Tramone Garcia, and our special guest
today is to be Asteufel. He is an entrepreneur, biohacker,
drone pilot, and philosopher on emerging technology across all topics.
He is also our US Transhumanist Party for an ambassador
in Germany for many years now, and he has a

(01:28):
startup that focuses on three D printing. The English name
for it as three D Printing by Teufel. Here is
the website of his startup if you would like to
learn more about it. And one other aspect that is
notable about Tobias is he and I held a live
stream on July ninth, twenty nineteen. This was during some

(01:50):
of the last days of Google Hangouts on Air, which
was a great platform. I am sorry that it disappeared
in twenty nineteen, but I was able to have some
excellent chanel discussions and conversations, including with Tobias, and we
discussed the state of emerging technologies at the time. We

(02:11):
discussed robotics, three D printing, medical technologies, and generally the
state of transhumanism in Germany. How it was not well
understood at the time, but Tobias has definitely persevered in
spreading some transhumanist technologies and applications in Germany through his startup,

(02:36):
through his educational endeavors, and Tobias welcome. My first question
for you is what has changed in your view during
the past six and the quarter years since we've had
this conversation in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
I thank you. A lot has changed. We had more
acceptance of technology, more cornsumanist technology. We had also a
growth in the German Party for Longevity and yeah, overall
it's just a lot political for me personally, so yeah,

(03:19):
we have a lot to talk about.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yes, indeed, and of course the German Party for Biomedical
Rejuvenation Research has been doing well. It has been running
in federal elections for Germany for the EU Parliament as well.
It's been getting several fractions of a percentage point, so

(03:49):
not enough to get into the EU Parliament, but enough
to get noticed. Felix Ver used to be the chairman.
I met with him at the Vitalist Bay conferences in Berkeley,
California in May. He and I had a good long
discussion at the Longevity Policy Conference and he said essentially

(04:14):
he himself is stepping back from it. He's delegating the
leadership to others, but he continues to advise them and
hopefully they will continue to do well. We also had
a virtual Enlightenment Saloon with them back in May twenty
twenty four. So in terms of three D printing, tell

(04:35):
us a bit about both your startup and some examples
of three D printed objects which I know you have
available to demonstrate.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, so from what we talked six and a half
years ago, it was we talked about printing, potentially printing
moon bases or metal printing or printing implants. And in
the meantime I worked for metal printing company. I have
acquired a medical implant that would be used in the

(05:10):
skull fracture. So it has gotten a long way an
acceptance and availability. So this, for example, was implanted in
Swedish University in South Sweden two years ago. This one
is just an industrial material as replica because it's a
lot cheaper. But overall the moon basis we talked about

(05:34):
this is being tested right now by multiple agencies, NASA, Issa,
there's been testing of actually immune immune regulative supplement or
an in stand off. You can print bias filament by
yourself and printed on your home printer probably as well,

(05:55):
but it's it's the potential right now to test it
out by your own on your own machines and get
a feeling for it.

Speaker 1 (06:06):
Yes, that's quite fascinating. And we talked also in twenty
nineteen about essentially the accessibility of the three D printing technologies.
So there had been some tabletop three D printers that
were available, mostly for printing with plastic and printing like

(06:28):
small components. What would you say is the state of
consumer availability of three D printing technologies today? And I
know Germany is the country with which you're most familiar,
so talk about that, but if you've observed any differences
in other countries, feel free to comment on those as well.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
At a consumer act is, accessibility has creately increased. We
had so many technology advancements because back then I just
got my own printer, my first own printer. And right
now the software is better, the sensors the better, the
machines are smarter. They take a lot of the initial

(07:13):
guess work and trial an error out of the problem.
So right now the printers you can buy right now
are mainly set up, go through a setup guide that
the normal printer tells you what to do, and then
you can just hit start and print. So it's gotten
a lot easier, especially for beginners buying for the printers.

(07:36):
And yeah, so just in Germany. The consumer mark overalls
pretty average. Buying power is a bit different from continent
to continent, but overall it has gotten a lot more accessible.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yes, indeed. So let me give you an example of
some three D printed artifacts that I obtained few years ago.
And I was in Sacramento, which is the capital of
the state of California, in twenty twenty one, and I
happened to walk in the old part of the city

(08:12):
where they had historic buildings next to the Sacramento River,
and this three D printed shop sold me some objects
very inexpensively. So this was a hedgehog, plastic golden hedgehog,
quite spiky, so it was interesting that they were able

(08:34):
to make rather sharp spikes out of plastic. This is
a bust of Rihard Wagner, the famous German nineteenth century composer,
quite detailed, quite well done. I collect statuary of composers,

(08:54):
so this was a nice addition to my collection. And
the largest that I purchased was this three D printed
model of the US Supreme Court building. Again fairly detailed
with the columns with the windows as you can see.

(09:16):
And this model cost me I think ten dollars. The
others were less expensive than that, so I got a
good deal for them. Now would you say today, four
years later, it would be possible for people to three
D print these at home or with the material still

(09:39):
be a bit too much in terms of what typical
three D printer for home consumption would be able to process.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
No, I wouldn't say it's I have a good idea
what material was used. It's a biopolyma. It's relatively cheap,
be easy to print. I sometimes use for models as well.
I also have seen models in Malme in Sweden and
Copenhagen where they're printed models of the new city district

(10:14):
city area. They wanted to show the public so they
would get an understanding of what the city would look
like once the this district was built, the New Haven area.
And yeah, if the material is pretty cheap, good the
good or the high end printer does take a lot
of the guesswork and the trial error out of it.

(10:36):
They are a bit more expensive, so they go for
around thousand euros tho thousand, two hundred dollars, but they're
still cheaper ones with great communities. They have been going
for ten years and people just mod the printers to
keep them up to date on a technology level, So yeah,
I would say it's it's possible a good printer with

(10:56):
small built volume two under two that's possible to get today.

Speaker 1 (11:04):
Very interesting, So yes, that would be accessible to the
majority of consumers. Now, what would you say would be
the technical skill level needed to both operate those three
D printers and more importantly, to maintain them over time
so that they retain their ability to produce these kinds

(11:26):
of objects.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Eddie Operation and maintenance that's a bit more complicated. I yeah,
that's true for me. For example, in the time since
our last saloon in twenty nineteen, I did training as
mechatronics with specialty and maintenance of industrial machinery. So for

(11:52):
me it's relatively simple. There are some steps you have
to take and consider, but people working on over the
community and not just people the community is a better
It's a bad way of saying. It works on the
guides videos on YouTube that teach you how to operate

(12:13):
the machines, how to fix small errors. Of course, I'm
when the industrial with other companies, so they have bigger
printers and bigger problems. Then normally it's it's like a
standard machine, the industrial machine, the seller takes care of
maintenance or send someone a service personnel. But in the

(12:34):
private area it's gotten a lot easier as well, because
the machines take a guess what all of it day.
Some even warn you after exprinting hours. They say, Okay,
it's maybe trying to lubricate the bearings or any moving parts,
maybe exchange some cooling fans before they fail. So, yeah,

(12:57):
it's gotten easier. It's still not it's super easier. You
have to tink a bit of the machines, but it's doable.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
So would you say it's sufficiently doable for the prospect
of mass consumer adoption? We have this comment by Michael Lasine,
who writes, I would say here in the USA, three
D printing has a long ways to go for the
average person to care about using the printers. It seems
like DIY people would care more about it. But if

(13:29):
let's say a late person did care about it, do
you think right now it's possible for them to just
set one up and use it if they have, say
two thousand dollars as a budget for getting a three
D printer, getting the materials, getting any tools that they
would need to run it effectively.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Oh, yes, absolutely, I would even put it at one
and a half thousand cials, maybe even and short. The
material is one of the big problems. If you want models, statues,
small parts in the house, then you could get away
with relatively cheap and easy to print materials. I print

(14:11):
more of the dust fill style like these drones. For example.
There are carbon fiber reinforce, so we need to upgrade
parts of the printer. It's easy to do, it's a
changeable component, but that costs more. The material costs small
per kilogram, and so it adds up. The good thing
is because the community is more like this open source

(14:33):
idea behind it. A lot of people myself included posts
three D models of things. For example, I printed some
parts for my mother's camping then so she needed them,
I designed them, printed them, and after all it was sure.
I have a business, but my business is in B

(14:54):
to B area, so B two C is not really
my business. I don't back any money there. So I
have no problem uploading my files my designs for free
on the internet for other people to use. And a
lot a lot of people think like this, So just
I solve this problem for myself. The MATUREID don't have
a business. It's just like private users. Tinkerers upload the files,

(15:14):
make them available and everyone else can download it. If
it's a more popular part, maybe there's someone else giving
advice in the comments or giving feedback how to print
a part properly, and that makes it fairly useful. Sure,
designing your own part that's another skill level, that's a
lot more effort. I have been designing my own parts

(15:36):
for nine years now, probably at the same time I've
been treaty printing, and I've gotten pretty good at it.
I would say, but yeah, simple parts you can learn
a weekend or a week Maybe complex parts, bad parts
it dust walk components, that's a bit harder. But anything

(15:58):
in the home you can learn.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
And we go to.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Very interesting Yes, and this does give a good idea
of the amount of learning and self education involve. Daniel
Tweed rights in our chat he would say the difficulty
level is about like keeping fish in a home aquarium.
Would you agree with that.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
I haven't really kept fish at home, but yeah, I
would say it's regular. You check in on it, control something,
keep it alive in this way, maintain it. So yeah,
I would say it's probably the same difficulty level.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, yes, yes, indeed. And we have a comment from
Moe Google who says sharing parts for free within the
community is awesome and yes, we applaud the open source
ethos that you described to BIS. And since you've shown
the three D printed drone components, Jason Geringer has a

(17:03):
question along these lines, what about three D printing of drones?
How much of a drone can be three D printed?
He assumes the motherboard can't be three D printed, but
it would be interesting to get your thoughts on that,
And he also was thinking about how much it costs
when creating a drone. How much money is the motherboard
and parts that can't be three D printed compared to

(17:26):
what can be three D printed?

Speaker 2 (17:30):
Okay, yeah, it's start with what can be printed. It's
pretty much this all the black and white parts. The
standoffs are metal and discoos, so a any electronics wiring.
There are attempts to treat print electronics. But this is
relatively early and the resolution is it's possible, but it's

(17:55):
not like the PCB we have today with thin traces
and high component density. It's it's pretty early. Maybe give
it like five to eight more years, and it could
be potentially work. But yeah, it's the frame, all the
mechanical parts. You can really print. This, for example, is
my design for tone is not optimized yet. I'm just

(18:16):
trying to fly it a bit. If it done of
the question, I try to optimize it and upload the parts.
And this one too is for free on my design page,
so people could download it printed and have a fly it.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Excellent. Excellent, so your design page, it would be accessible
from the website of your startup. Here.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
I'm not sure I can post the link here, but yeah,
it's the tidy talk about toyfield name, pretty YouTube principles,
pretty much anything.

Speaker 1 (18:54):
We will get that link shared with the audience shortly.
And now we have have a question from art ramon.
He says he needs to three D print soffet covers,
which are vent hole covers screen light to keep bees out.
Art Ramone, perhaps you might want to elaborate on that

(19:16):
and what you're looking to achieve here.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Yeah, it's see on the side of the house on
the software, they have these vein holes and I tried
to find something I could just stick in there and
be at the screen, and I could not find anything.
So that would be like one application where I could
use it to create a custom part because I couldn't

(19:41):
find anything on the in it that was the correct size.
What I found it was like an illuminum on but
it was just a slightly bit larger. And this gonna
be like a screen case. So it has to be
a screen because that's how a piter gets out.

Speaker 4 (19:56):
There could be addict, but it also has to be
how small enough in there?

Speaker 3 (20:04):
And my guys, so got it. That's how I could
use it? Is that easy?

Speaker 2 (20:13):
It's it's possible. Earlier this year, I've been to the
conference for content creators and there's one content creator I'm
not sure if you can see it as kais and
three D and he has some text shirt print plates
that's way. It's all reflective. But there's a mess in here.
So this one, it's like the first layer, yes he said,

(20:36):
he stops the print, puts on some some nylon mesh.
So this is less less effective, So some nylon mesh
and then continues, puts it in, weighs it down with magnets,
and then continues to print. So I haven't tested this.
I haven't really got to find a good application, but yeah,
that's idea on continue print, So maybe this it print

(21:01):
the first layer at umesh and then print just off
the cover.

Speaker 4 (21:05):
Okay, I did.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
Buy some some screen which I had to put on
the outside.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
I couldn't fit it into the hall, but it's just
doesn't look very pretty the way I did it.

Speaker 3 (21:18):
I had an animal get into the attic and I
didn't know what it was, and it was scratching out
all the mess from the inside, like a whole bunch
of them scratched it out trying to get out there.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
But it kind of created a mess up there. It's
been a very difficult part to find.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
So this is where I would see, you know, a
nice custom part that I could use, but I needed
a cheap print. I don't want to spend too much either,
So is there like five hundred dollars printer that I
could buy the maybe create this custom part?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Yeah, of course that's some If you want, I can,
if you have some time on the discord, we can
talk it out. Because it's it's a bitch. It's like
budget application, your needs, your skill level, and yeah, but
if anyone is in a discord, feel free to ask
me around for a printer recommendation for your application. Happy

(22:19):
to help you.

Speaker 3 (22:19):
Out, okay, and also about how to design this part
the application to actually you know, I would have to
take measurements as a whole and whatnot. What sort of
application could be done or are donally used.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Or like, Yeah, there are some some free programs you
can use. We use, for example, a tinker Cat. It's
an autodsk product. It's also web based, so any laptop
or tablet can run it. And this is like a
good entry model your program. You can add geometry, substruct geometry,

(23:00):
rotate them, change their yeah, their volume of lengths. And
it's relatively easy to get into. It's not that detail
oriented or high precision. As you move the parts around
the yeah, guess where they're going. Yeah, most out of

(23:21):
this or like Fusion. I personally use the Fusion for
my own business. Has student license or private owning licenses,
so you could, yeah, get one of these for free.
YouTube has a ton of videos. I learned it myself
there and after all, I'm in a discord happy to

(23:43):
help any questions. If something comes up, just the kind difference,
it's a bit of a problem. So if someone asks
me and it takes a couple of hours, it's probably
nighttime in Chermany.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
Right, thank you, all right, thank you Hartman, and to
be as our next question is from Jason Geringer. Can
to be a speak about the technology with regard to
three D printing metals compared to plastic and other materials.
What is available for three D printing of metals today?

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Okay, that's yeah. I can tell you a lot about
the process and the company I worked with it's pretty advanced.
But overall, there's the plastic you just heat up either
by a heating element or there's also a powder bed system.
You lay down a layer of powder. You use a

(24:36):
laser to melt the party want or the layer of
the party want add more powder. Laser. Another one and
this is with nylon mainly, so plastic powder. You can
upgrade the power of the laser and do it with metal.
That's SLM selective laser melting, and there's also to other

(25:00):
versions to make metal. It's l M D. It's a laser.
It's it's basically a welding the welding robot creating the
treaty part by just laying down a welding material. And
the other part is the company I worked for. It's

(25:21):
similar to welding but instead of like a welding rod,
you put in it's a powder and a high power laser.
So you would push the powder with a protective gas
or shielding gas into the focal point of the laser.
Like if this would be a part, you would melt

(25:42):
the focal point above the material and then have olden
material trip onto the part, or a trip does have
its stream onto the part. So that is called ELA.
It's extreme finish's laser off tarch tison. It's a relatively

(26:02):
unknown process. It's an extreme high speed laser deposition. Basically,
because you have the melting point above the part, you
can print extremely fast. You can print basically anything that
is a powder. Our machines the old company could print
from aluminium up to tungsten carbide. So I'm not sure

(26:25):
what the melting point of tungsten is, but it's two thousand,
three thousand degrees celsius. And yeah, that's a few exceptions
with tin, lead, and zinc because the melting point is
too low they would just turn to gas. But yeah,

(26:46):
you could print metals with that pretty fast. You can
combine metals, for example, you create bi metal two metals
of different temperatures, or temperature expansion coefficients you have. Also,
you are what are called the mechanical fuses an electrical environment.
So if the overload one metal bends more than the

(27:07):
other or expands more than the other, it bends and
opens the line of electricity and the fuze is blown
it this way. So all the coating of mechanical parts
you could do with this. It's pretty advanced technologies with
a lot of potentials. I can really talk about what

(27:30):
I see as well as printing metals. Not really allowed
to talk about that, so you might can guess if
it's possible or not.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
All right, Well, thank you for that answer, and Jason
has a follow up question. He's asking about the shielding
gases that used because of heat and is that replacing
the cooling liquid.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
It's mainly used for protecting the machine. So for example,
we could print titanium pure titanium, and if it gets
in contact with oxygen, it could explode. So this is
to keep the metal without oxidizing. Because it's extremely fine powder,
it could oxidize on a short distance between the nozzile

(28:17):
and the part. It is not even an inch twenty
millimeters And that's the reason you're shieling guess to protect
the part, protect the powder, make sure there's no oxidation.
They're still cooling water inside the laser nozzle to keep
the entire optic cool, but their shielding is for the metal,

(28:39):
powder and the part.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yes, thank you for that answer. And by the way,
for those who would like to access to Bis's designs,
including for the drone frame that he showed, this is
the link, so I will bring it up periodically. And
now for the next question. We have actually several questions

(29:04):
from Mike Lasine. He wonders can you print three D?
Can you three D print fabric or textile materials for
costumes and any kinds of fabrics for clothing. Is there
such a thing as three D printing of fabric?

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, that's possible. That's also one of this is what
I showed before of the met This one is like
his business card, but Daniel has his name. He's also
printing a lot of cosplay paths or customs like you
could print on this mesh. You could print pretty much anything.
You could print, like small scales and if because it's

(29:43):
out no contact, you can moved around like a scale
armor or futuristic scales. Alien scales. There's a lot of
potential there. I also printed some customs for friends. So yeah,
it's not my main stuff I do because it takes
a lot of time, but yes, it's possible. I can

(30:05):
also look for the building of Daniel and edited later
to chat.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Yes, we will share that when it becomes available. And
in the meantime, here's a comment from Daniel Tweet. He writes,
you can three D print a wide variety of useful,
fun and artistic items. The possibilities are nearly endless, ranging
from simple desktop items to complex mechanical models. He recommends
searching for ideas to three D print various items for

(30:41):
various applications. So Jason has another question. Have you heard
of three D printing magnets or patterns of magnets? Is
that's something that can be done?

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Yeah, as a domestic part. As I said, I can
talk about details, but the implication it's that's probably going
to work. As I've lost the company, I'm not sure
if the actual if it's going to happen right now,
it's going to happen a couple of months, but it's

(31:11):
it's a possibility being tested. Let's say like that.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
A possibility being tested. All right, Well, perhaps we'll check
back in a few months time and see what happens
with that. Daniel also writes that Bamboo Labs makes a
well reviewed three D printer for under three hundred dollars.
Are you aware of this company?

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yes, I am aware personally, not a big fan. As
they early in the beginning used a lot of open
source projects and ideas to build the machine. And after that,
like the normal idea of open sources, you can use
something that's open source, you can modify it, but the

(31:59):
spirit it will be, and that what you modified and
learned that may be improved, you give back to the
open source feed. They did not do that, and over
it's a good company for private users. The Polish printer
seems pretty reliable as business in especially Germany. I have

(32:20):
to a europe overall, I have to abide by a
lot of regulations for data protection and safety. One would
be that the slicing clouds. Slicing is the project as
to turning your three D model into a file that
the printer is actually able to use. The cloud servers

(32:41):
are in Shansa and China, so data regulation is I mean,
I'm not allowed to use them basically that's the European answer.
We're not allowed to use them private users. If you're
not working on anything high tech or dangerous, it's probably
not a big deal. I personally used the European counterpart

(33:02):
to bumble Up. It's Prusha. They're from Prague in the
Czech Republic, and they also shared the open source Atya.
They started to build it from the count up there.
One of the earliest players they still exist and one
of the biggest in the last one that are really
big intervity in Europe. And yeah, bumble up good for

(33:23):
private users and consumers. I wouldn't recommend them. Took us
to like companies and stuff.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Very interesting, yes, and I think this is our first
foray into policy questions and considerations. So it seems like
the EU's privacy protection laws I presume GDPR, the General
Data Protection Regulation, has something to do with this. These

(33:52):
laws affect which three D printers businesses may or may
not use. Could you discuss that in greater detail?

Speaker 4 (34:00):
Yeah, I can.

Speaker 2 (34:00):
I give you a standpoint for what I do normally
for companies is I do application engineering product development. So
if comedy comes to me, they hand over some part
of the product of the intellectual property and they either
want it improved or modified, so it can be treety printed.

(34:23):
And it's basically what I do it to testing development
of them. So I get handed a piece of the
intellectual property and I build on it. And so it's
extremely important that it does not get outside to anybody.
And yeah, there's a lot of regulation in this area

(34:47):
you have to be aware of. I'm not sure how
it is in America because in Europe you all known't
for having a lot of regulations. But ye, it basically
is make sure your data doesn't leave Europe. It's saved
on European servers, hostes on European servers, and that's the

(35:12):
short version. The long version is a very very long version.
But yeah, we have a lot of regulation on it,
on data, on development, what parts we can use. We
have certifications. For example, if there's a company that wants
food contact materials, I can add not allowed to do
the printers because of the process. There's still like between

(35:36):
the layers, there's pores that could bacteria could go in there.
I fortunately know a company that are certified, but you
need to certify the printer, you need to certify the material,
certify the post processing and the entire processes overall. So
you need four certifications and that's one hundred to one

(35:56):
twenty thousand jos to get the certification all done.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
So yeah, that's a sizable barrier to entry, not insurmountable,
but it seems what you're saying is three D printing
of food is potentially allowed in the European Union, but
one has to get these four certifications. There's a high
startup cost, and one has to have three D printers

(36:24):
that are specifically configured to that and meet all the
relevant safety regulations.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Yes, it's a protect your end customer. You didn't want
to like injured them, accidentally have parts break off for
cause any bacterial infection inside of parts. So I think
it's a good deal. You know, it's end consumer, you're protected,
and at the same time as a company, I don't

(36:52):
have the certification, as I said, but I know another
company that has the certification, So yeah, it's a good
barrier to and tory fort them so no one is
really following them up. But yeah, we all have to
play by these rules, have a bit of ease of
mind that we're not eating any broken treaty printed parts
by accident, and yeah, it's something you'll probably have to

(37:17):
find yourself if you're okay with this amount of regulation.
It's not really have choice if you go into business
this way. But I personally am fine with that. It
gives ease of mind, and it's a bit more process
and a steamline business and process. I know what I'm
allowed to do and know what I'm not allowed to do,
so I just stick to that and I hope I'm good.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
So what kinds of food do get created by companies
today that are able to satisfy the requirements of these regulations.
I assume something like candy would be easier than meat products.
I know there are startups in the US that are

(38:03):
doing three D printed meat products, but they're still not
widely available to consumers.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, Kenny is chocolate especially or like a coco fat mix.
It's that's relatively easy to do with TUT printers, and
there's not much of regulation on debt meat. As you said,
is a lot of people who work on it, smaller

(38:35):
startups working on their own. But it's again it's it's
extremely complicated. You have to you have to there's no
I can you can't buy tut printers that can print meat.
You don't. You can't really buy the raw resource, so
you have to create a resource, create the process, keep

(38:56):
the process safe, and then also build the machine. So
you have a lot of areas of expertise you have
to cover, so a lot of engineers, developers, and that's
mean higher of course. So it's been done. It's not
as quick as people hope it to be done, and
it's extremely costly right now.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yes, I believe it. Cost is the main barrier to
widespread deployment of three D printed meat products in the
United States, and I do hope they're able to overcome
some of those cost barriers soon because some of the
reactionary governors in certain states, particularly in Florida and states

(39:41):
of the Deep South, have actually banned three D printed
food preemptively, which I think is tragic, but they've been
fed misinformation by conspiracy theorists, and I think the way
to counter that is in states where it's not banned yet,
to make it widely available to consumers and get people

(40:01):
to realize, oh, this is literally biologically identical to meat
that's derived in the traditional way, so people would get
used to it, people would recognize it's a more humane option,
and then it would become more difficult to ban. But
in order for that to happen, the costs would need

(40:23):
to be lowered. So Luisa Royo has a comment cost
barriers are a wild thing that holds back progress oftentimes,
and yes, that is an unfortunate reality. Now, Mike Lisine
asks can you three D print out a Twix candy bar? Now,
what's notable about the Twix candy bar is it's multi layered,

(40:45):
so it's not just chocolate. It has that wafer inside,
it has caramel inside. And of course I know in
Germany a lot of the suites are even more creative
and more multi layered than in the United States. Generally
prefer the European chocolates, but that's my own personal bias,

(41:05):
and yes, some of those can be pretty sophisticated. So
if you have multiple layers, multiple ingredients, multiple components, can
you three D print a candy like that?

Speaker 2 (41:18):
From I understanding or I would think you could do it,
is if you have the wafer laid down, you can
melt chocolate, so that's just temperature and caramel as well,
So it should be possible. This might be a bit
complicated get covered evenly, but that's just trended error once

(41:39):
it gets to work.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yes, indeed, and I presume, like with any discipline, any
skill set, there are more advanced practitioners that are able
to create products with multiple components if they're clever about
the sequence in which they do it. Of course, probably

(42:02):
three D printing just a monolithic chocolate bar with some
design on top of it is easier than doing something
like this with a multi layered candy. But hopefully there
will be some creativity along these lines. Now, the link
you shared is to Kaisen three D prints, and they

(42:22):
have some interesting items there. They have buttons of various shapes,
interesting luminescent buttons as well, so they're adding different colors,
they're adding different luminescent elements. They have magnetic p flat sheets,
So to Jason's question about three D printing magnets, they
do some of that. They have some clothing, They have

(42:44):
some fabrics as well, a three D printed set of
floral textiles that are available, So check them out Kaizen
three D prints, and this is just another illustration of
what is possible.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
Now.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Jason has an interesting question here, speaking of costs, what
is the most profitable three D part to be printed today?
Would it be profitable to make a startup that just
makes some bracket or some other common part. So I
think Tobis may have something to demonstrate to us along

(43:23):
these lines, and you can see he has a large
number of three D printed components. We will go through
some of them as well. So what is your answer
to this question.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
I personally print a lot of engineering machine building companies,
so yeah, records covers anything that moves to material, electronic mounting,
so that's pretty useful what I have. This is my
most valuable part I have printed so far. It's a

(43:57):
cover for electronic for a copper in an electric vehicle,
So this one was a safety regulation requirement to cover
up the copper so you couldn't touch it off your hand.
And this part was also yeah, extremely urgency needed, so

(44:17):
I had I had to stop other jobs and push
them forward. So the price went up by a lot,
and I sold one of these parts I believe for
like thirty four years at production costs of five because
I had to push everything aside delay other projects. So yeah,

(44:37):
this one was my most profitable part. But yeah, anything
machine building you can print a lot of parts for
small businesses. That's probably the sweet spot you have. You
don't have to work with so many people like the
B two C field with end consumers. They have should

(44:58):
have a bit more money, so and also some technical background,
I can tell you what they want. So anything you
could print for smaller companies or companies in your region
or your area is probably a potential, potentially I lucrative option.

(45:19):
If someone would give me like idea for a company
or for our area, of the area of the oil
and gas industry, hospitality, stuff like this, I could probably
give you some ideas because I printed a lot when
different companies wanted to test out to the printing and
want to have their product three the printable.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
Yes, very interesting and one suggestion by our viewer one
one is that such a profitable part might be a
part for printing more parts. So are you aware of
components of three D printers that could themselves be three
D printed?

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, I've now I have. I had a printer until
the last month behind me, and that one was a
big parts three D printed. Any brackets it was aluminum
extrusion and the rest of the parts was three D printed.
I know that Prussia the European company. They have been
three D printing parts for the three D printers for

(46:26):
pretty much since the beginning. So right now I've the
latest one. That one is high temperature, so you need
even higher temperature material, so it's not really a possible
ideas of the sheet metal. But before that, you can
three D print a lot of parts on the three
D printer itself.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Yes, and in this way perhaps the three D printing
industry could be self perpetuating, especially if these are parts
that are needed to repair three D printers where some
of the parts have malfunctioned or exceeded their useful life. Now,

(47:07):
Daniel Tweet writes he saw a YouTube video recently of
someone who practically retired three D printing mailbox flags, So
that's interesting. I suppose you could make mailbox flags out
of either plastic or metal, depending on the preference, and
the plastic ones could even last some time as well. Now,

(47:29):
Jennifer Hues was wondering, what about three D printing of organs?
What are you aware of in terms of that technology?
I recall about thirteen years or so there had been
advances and three D printing of hollow organs like wind pipes,
for instance, and some scientists have worked on even three

(47:50):
D printing kidneys, though that's more difficult. And there have
been miniature models of human hearts three D printed, though
not yet a full human heart for transplantation. So what
is the state of that technology?

Speaker 2 (48:06):
I guessed that this question would come up, so I
ask around, and I work with a startup. You could
probably classify them as in Barcelona in Spain. I will
also share link so everyone else can keep up to date.

(48:28):
They are working on tissue to the printing and carcilage,
so anything as you said, hollow is easier to make,
and there's complex organs like liver it's the middle liver, kidney,
any biochemical process. But hearts and lungs that do complex

(48:49):
processes in the body, those are hard, pretty hard to
make it and it's probably going to take some time until
we get them. But skin tissue it's probably the next
thing that will come up, So skin craft potentially or cartholage.

(49:10):
As I said, bone is also possible to to D print.
Right now, it's not really under staye tacot implanted, but
peak as I had here before, this one is already
implanted in someone and it's possible today, So implants they work,

(49:30):
organs give it a bit more time. Depending on how
complex the organists and how complex the function is the
organ does it's probably gonna take some time.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Yes, that makes sense. And the website in question is
regimat three D. It's described as the world's only integrated
tissue engineering platform combining bioprinting and bioreactors to create real
functional tissues beyond scaffold printing. So thank you for sharing

(50:05):
that to BS. And in terms of the medical implant
that you described, are you aware air of weather currently
in use in medical procedures.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah. This one I got from a company that unfortunately
went bankrupt last year. It's a German company. They focused
on high temperature material. This is its peak. It's chemically
resistant and it's already used in medical parts. But normally

(50:39):
they have been machined conventionally, so it takes a lot
of time and the material is extremely expensive. This one
is the industrial version. This caused one thousand duosichilo. The
medical one costs one thousand, eight hundred duos akilo. So
you again need the machine that's especially made for the

(51:01):
medical printing stuff. You need the material and the process
needs specertified again to be medically great and implentable. So yeah,
it's it's possible. It's already a possibility. It's not done
that often because you need the specialists with the machines,

(51:22):
you need the material. So I know of two universities.
One is in London and Sweden and the other one
is in Calcotta, India. Those two companies already actively implant
treely printed implants.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
Very interesting, So Sweden and India are ahead of the
curve in terms of providing these two patients. And it's
interesting too that you could have two objects that are
very similar in design, but if you call one of
them medical, it's somehow comes a lot more expensive just
by virtue of having that designation. And I would like

(52:05):
your honest assessment. Is there that much of a difference
between the industrial grade implant and the medical grade implant?
What does the medical grade implant have that the industrial
one doesn't.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
It's from I have I visited the company because they
went bankrupt, and the founder told me it's mainly the
transport and the production. It's technically the same production, the
same material chemically, but the medical part or medical filament

(52:39):
and resource gets sterilized and sealed in the block complicated waste,
and the industrial version and the printer itself is also
a bit modified to be easier to sterilize to auto
clave itself, and it does infected.

Speaker 4 (53:00):
So.

Speaker 2 (53:02):
It's probably not that more complex, So not like eighty
percent price increase for the same filament just because it's
packaged a bit more complex, But yeah, it's as some people.
It's like, I would guess the same as in America,
your insurance company pays for it, so as long as

(53:25):
they assign it and pay it, you can add a
bit on top of the same. With defense contracts, you're
also just you know your government is going to pay it,
so it's just add a few percentages more because they
have to buy it from you or don't buy it
at all.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Yes, and sometimes it is indeed those institutional factors and
questions of who pays and the incentives that can drive
up the prices. But it seems the one material difference
is in the sterilization process. So the medical grade implant,

(54:03):
they really make sure that it's free of any kind
of infection potential, but probably that doesn't justify the entire
price differential. And Daniel tweed rights. He used to buy
industrial gases and the worker there said all the gases
were medical grade, but the certification process was the price difference.

(54:26):
So interesting discussion. Again, another policy implication. And now my
Clausine has a question, what would happen if someone three
D printed a car? How would a person make that
street legal? So, given you could three D print with metal,
you could three D print with plastic, what fraction of

(54:46):
the components of a car do you think could be
three D printed? And then what would need to happen
to enable that car to be legally operable on the roads.
Obviously the requirements may differ by but do you think
in Germany if someone three D printed a car and said, well,
look here all the components were trying to fulfill all
the safety regulations, how feasible would that be?

Speaker 2 (55:12):
It would probably a lot more feasible in the United
States from my understanding of the requirements you have. I
see some modified cars on social media and America, and
they wouldn't be possible in Germany. I already know that.
But the one problem is the again, the certification, the

(55:34):
German safety regulation for anything that drives on the road.
But I know it's it's possible to print parts. We
had the last competent metal printing company. We talked with Porsche,
the German supercar manufacturer, and they wanted to do to
d print brake pedals. The thing is again cost because

(55:58):
the pauche the print pedal. If that's a bit more
expensive on the over a car costs a couple hundred
thousand yuos, it's not really a big problem for them.
But if you have a car like Yeah, any Ford
or fur V, you have a lot a lot smaller
price margin to add three de printed parts to the cost. Technically,

(56:20):
if you would go for like the the hypercar market,
I know that not a car. I have to out
myself and that there's an American company that already print
a lot of parts for their car. It's a it's

(56:41):
a hypercar company from California. I'm not sure what the
name is, but I can try to find it out.
But I'm not sure if the toper mine it's a
hyper car the same price class as QUENISGG interesting.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Yes, we will try to find the name of that
hypercar company in California. In the meantime, Mike Lazine has
a comment he thinks a lot of items that can
be three D printed would come down to whether it's
cheaper to three D print the product or just buy
something that's manufactured in a different way if that is cheaper.

(57:20):
And yes, you could have mass manufacturing through older processes
that could just be more scalable as compared to three
D printing. But it's an interesting question and I would
like your input on this to be as which components
do you think are more economical to three D print
now such that there could be a viable market for

(57:43):
them versus components that are still cheaper to manufacture in
more traditional ways.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
Yeah, problem is still again cost because you have to
the raw. If we go for example, the company I
did my ecatronics training in was an attraction molding company,
so it's probably the most fast spread process of making
plastic parts. So in both cases you melt parts, but

(58:16):
with injection molding you can make dozens of parts at
the same time. And because you take in both cases
to start with the granulate ucanulated material, but if you're printing,
you turn it into filament or to change it in
fine powder, and then the machine only makes like one
or maybe it doesn't if it's a small part at

(58:36):
the same time it caps a couple of hours. Maybe
while injection molding, you could make a dozen parts in
ten seconds. So ah, yes, Singer, that's the company. And yeah,
it's it's hard to scale up. Where I see the

(58:57):
possibility of it being you or more economical is in
spare parts. A lot of companies the small printed parts.
It's like the main failing point in all the companies
that go to the failed part is some small mechanical parts,
some ends which some mound for important standsor and in

(59:22):
the private end consumer market, it's probably also any part
end of life machines, maybe even vacuums that are no
longer being produced, and you can buy parts of them,
or you have to buy them in like large orders online,
but if you print them, you can have them in

(59:42):
your own house in less than a day.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yes, And I think this is an important insight. So
it might not even be something that's routinely manufactured, but
it's something that you need to custom manufacture because you
don't have a ready supply of it from the original manufacturer.
And I have a story along these lines. So my

(01:00:08):
old kitchen cabinets which came with my house when it
was built, they were almost as old as I am.
Had one hinge that got detached, and so my door
was just hanging on a single hinge. Obviously, this was
dangerous and I needed to fix it right away. But

(01:00:30):
the actual hinge itself, I looked at it and it
said made in West Germany. So this was prior to
the fall of the Berlin Wall, and these components were
no longer produced in West Germany, so I had to

(01:00:53):
essentially look online throughout the world. I found one instance
of this particular hinge sold on eBay, and I paid
eleven dollars for a hinge in order to be able
to repair my kitchen cabinet door. And I am sure
that a lot of people with older furniture or equipment

(01:01:18):
face that kind of dilemma. And it's a small part.
If you can replace the small part, then the entire
item might have many more years of useful life. But
if I didn't find that one West German hinge on eBay,
I might have had to three D print it, because

(01:01:39):
I'm not sure if I could have put up that
door otherwise.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, might have been a good option to solve the problem.
Print to own hinge and I know a lot of
there's actually a few smaller shown companies that work, especially
with old timer's old cars, because again you don't have
really the parts. The body panels are all yeah, need

(01:02:07):
to be manufactured by small companies aren't even manufactured anymore,
so they often go through three D scanning and then
three D printing. They're parts. Of course, it's like a
card and it's again you can spend a bit more.
You can maybe buy your own printer. If it's smaller
parts like hinges, then you might need to know someone

(01:02:29):
or I already have a three D printer. That's also
I personally see the future of this entire three D
printer in every house. It's not really feasible, but I
see it in more like hubs. For maybe in a
suburb or city has one hub with different treely printers.

(01:02:49):
You have specialists working with different machines, you have maybe
in metal printing. So this hub could cover a region
of maybe six thousand people living there and if they
need something, they could reach out and get a part
sprinted out, having like having to be specialized in this process.
Or maybe that's maybe something that basically printing I do

(01:03:11):
with filament is not viable that he needs to not
a process maybe metal, and then you wanted too high costs.
So that's I personally see the future. Have hops and yeah,
any center and then print there centrally. That's probably red

(01:03:32):
goals long term.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
Very interesting, And Vermont has a comment he has an
old garment and the cover broke a tab and there
are no spare parts on eBay. I have an issue
with a garment as well. So this is my garment watch.
It's a GPS enabled watch, and you can see it's

(01:03:55):
not functioning. What happened was it ran out of charge
and no matter what I did to try to recharge it,
I connected various charging ports to it, and it didn't work.
I connected various cords to it. Because you can see
this charging port here, I think something is malfunctioning in
this charging port so it won't properly connect to a

(01:04:19):
charging court. Do you think that's something that could be
three D printed, or at least in part three D printed,
so that one doesn't have to get an entirely new
device for something like that, which I think ought to
be a simple fix.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Oh yeah, that's one possible. Sure, if it's an electric problem,
then it might not be about a cover. A tree
d printed cover to protect the charger preemptively might have
been something. And it's again the link from my side
with what the files you can search there, there's probably

(01:04:58):
something you can download. There's more websites you can look
for toy printed files and yeah, principles is one big
one right now. If you manufacture of to the printers
create their own platform to get their customers bound to
their product. But there's a ton of them out there

(01:05:20):
with free designs you could download and print yourself or
get someone to print a for you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
All right, thank you and art Ramon you said you
had a question.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
Yes, I feel like I just said in the comments.

Speaker 3 (01:05:39):
I had a problem with a broken cover for an
olden garment and couldn't find a spare.

Speaker 4 (01:05:44):
Part of eBay. I could buy a new one, the
whole old one, but I want to do that. I
want to scan this part.

Speaker 3 (01:05:52):
I've seen people use phones and they scan people and
creates the person. Can I give the same thing with
this part and then out of my fixed ratio with
software to make sure it's the correct size in the software,
because then I would need to make sure it's the
correct correct scale and then I would want to like

(01:06:15):
copy and flip or reverse the broken intact tab with
the broken side. So the scanning work.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
At the scanning phones that are basically two two main theaters.
It's I know that iPhone twelve and newer have lighter
scanning enabled. But there's also an open source and three
variant with it's Smashroom. The website is called You basically

(01:06:51):
take a lot of photos and Meshroom combines the wall
and tries to create a three D model out of
as many photos as ten can provide. And then the
scaling is something you can do in the software. From
the Meshroom, you get a three D model that is

(01:07:11):
just yeah, the surface area out the volume of the part,
and then in the software that turns the model into
the file for the printer, you can do the scaling,
rotation all that. So that might be a first try.
I was just looking up as someone else already had
the same problem and maybe has a file already.

Speaker 1 (01:07:35):
Okay, yes, thank you to Bis and Daniel tweet rights.
There are rigs that let you do three hundred and
sixty degree scans with a phone, so thank you for that, Daniel.
And Daniel also writes on three D printed vehicle. Slate

(01:07:58):
is a new vehicle that is highly three D printed,
and he says, at least with three D printing, you
can get a vehicle or component sooner with no delivery fees.
Interesting though, of course, if the vehicle is three D
printed at the manufacture whatever that is, there might still
be a delivery fee. Now, one topic that I wanted

(01:08:23):
to discuss with you to is three D printed housing,
because that was already beginning when we spoke in twenty nineteen,
but there have been significant advances in it. So there
are now three D printed home communities in places in
the United States and elsewhere, and it is possible to

(01:08:47):
create three D printed homes which are cheaper and more durable.
So if you three D print with concrete and deposited
a layer at a time, that's a much more durab
both design then a wooden frame structure, which is what
most houses are still. So where do you see the

(01:09:09):
potential for three D printed housing And could we mass
produce enough housing to effectively solve the housing availability crisis
that is spreading throughout the Western world.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
Yeah, this the problem is with treor printing. There are
houses right now that are printed that are even in nearby.
It to me, I haven't missed it yet, but yeah,
you can tree you print houses. The problem is then
if you come to any window door frame, you have

(01:09:51):
to reinforce them wild printing. But still yeah, so the
printer outselfs stively big. But still the houses now other
you're not going to print like a family home in
one go at a small anything between a tiny house

(01:10:13):
and the one family house you could probably print today.
And they're also like, the printers are just machines. You
turn them on, you feed them in enough material and
they continue on printing the house whatever it is. And yeah,
and that's one project. I already shat it perfect. This

(01:10:36):
u t Alva, it's a it's a tower in Switzerland. Yeah, Switzerland.
And this right now is the tallest three D printed
building in the world. This was printed in structures, prefabricated structures,
you could say, and then just stacked on top of
each other. That's an option that you could three print

(01:10:57):
prefab houses in a way and then combine them at
the end destination. But yeah, multi story houses are bit
problematic because the concrete needs time to set and dry
out and harden. But single story houses, no problem. You
can print them today. You're limited by the space of

(01:11:19):
the printer, so that would maybe need some special modification,
but it's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
Yeah, yes, thank you very much. And the tour Alva
design is fascinating. Again. I have kept the website link
up for a while because I do encourage people to
take a look at it. This was unveiled very recently
May twentieth, twenty twenty five, and it is quite a

(01:11:51):
novel structural design. You can see these diagonal columns which
I haven't seen anywhere else, and the dome for it,
if one could call it. That is a very sophisticated
geometric design. So definitely a structure that's worth looking into

(01:12:14):
and worth visiting if one is in the area. But
this creates some real new architectural possibilities as well. With
three D printing, you could have architectural forms that are
not possible with other materials, and this could lead to
an esthetic revolution. Also, just like building with concrete, building

(01:12:39):
with steel led to new designs of structures. The skyscrapers
of the twentieth century were made possible by these innovations
and materials. So now I think a much greater morphological
diversity to use some more transhumanist terminology may be possible

(01:13:02):
in terms of buildings as well, and morphological freedom for architects,
So thank you for sharing that and for ordinary housing.
So the one story housing is the most feasible right now,
and for a lot of places that would be sufficient.
So for instance, in Nevada where I live, most houses

(01:13:23):
have one story, some have two stories. But generally speaking,
people tend to build more horizontal designs, and part of
that is the nature of the soil here. Part of
that is just there's a lot of space that is
available to spread out. And especially for say lower income

(01:13:50):
individuals or people who just need a starter home, one
story house is sufficient. So we have a homelessness crisis
in the United States. Imagine if a small one story home,
even say four hundred five hundred square feet were three

(01:14:11):
D printed for these people, that would be enough to
get them off the streets. That would be enough to
get them some decent housing. So do you think in
terms of another policy question, there might be an appetite
in some country, whether that be Germany or another EU
country or the United States to actually have a mass

(01:14:35):
three D printing program for housing that could be cheap
enough to three D print that it could just be
given a way to individuals. And again, it doesn't have
to be large, it doesn't have to be fancy. It
would just have to be functional so these people have
a place to live.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
It could absolutely possible. I just check the four hundred
square feet. That's something you could print in less than
a day. So one printer, one house in a day,
it's absolutely possible. The price of the printer is also
not that high. The raw materials it's concrete. It's not

(01:15:20):
sure how the availability is in places like Nevada. Yeah, Germany,
we have concrete plants because we built everything out of concrete.
But yeah, it's it's possible. The printer a price. I
the last thing I heard was around one hundred thousand JeOS,
So you could buy the printer, print a small house

(01:15:42):
for the price of the printer more or less, and
then have many more. So for a government or the
regional institution or municipality, it's it's a solid possibility. The
problem again is like finding operators and training. But I
would say it's a small, relatively small problem you could

(01:16:05):
use your solve.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
Yes, yes, thank you for that answer, and Jason also
writes concrete seems like it would be a good material
to three D print. I agree, and my understanding is
most three D printed housing today is made out of concrete.
It's deposited in layers essentially, so you see these homes

(01:16:28):
with a kind of layered snakelike texture, and then sometimes
they might refine it or sometimes that's just part of
the esthetic of these homes. But it's a much better
material than would in my view, and in Nevada, I
think it would be a good material as well. It
has a lot of structural integrity, especially if you reinforce it.

(01:16:52):
So Nevada is a bit earthquake prone, not as much
as California, but there is a risk. So the material
we wouldn't want housing to be built out of as
unreinforced masonry, so just bricks being laid on top of bricks.
But this concrete, because of how it's deposited, is a
lot more interconnected. So hopefully those homes will also have

(01:17:18):
a good deal of earthquake resistance. And to your point,
to be us about the constraints, so educated, well trained
three D printer operators, especially in a large scale construction setting,
are important and that, by the way, could be a
job of the future. So if people are concerned about

(01:17:42):
AI making certain professions obsolete, well maybe this is a
profession where employment is going to grow and people could
consider educating themselves, because I don't think an AI powered
robot is going to be developed anytime soon to operate
large scale three D printers for construction machinery. And I

(01:18:04):
think this is a worthwhile conversation to have because we're
increasingly going to need to think about which jobs are
going to have staying power, and this seems like one
of them. Which new jobs will emerge that people could
train themselves for. So definitely the whole three D printing
industry is a good one to educate oneself on. Now.

(01:18:27):
Another constraint, of course, is the will. There's plenty of
land in Nevada, about eighty four eighty five percent of
the state is actually federally owned, and if some of
that land could be dedicated to this kind of project
or privatized and the private entity could build these homes,
then there would be plenty of options as to where

(01:18:51):
to build them. It's a question of will, and it's
a question of really getting permission or getting such a
project through the various processes at the local level, and
overcoming the political opposition to building new housing. By the way,
I think political opposition, especially from the local activist groups

(01:19:13):
to the construction of new housing, is the reason for
the housing crisis, especially in the United States, but it
may exist in other countries as well. It's called nimbiism.
NIMBI stands for not in my backyard, and that's why
we have millions fewer housing units than we need. If
the nimbiism can be overcome on a policy level, then

(01:19:36):
all of these emerging technologies, including three D printing, could
readily overcome the shortage. So you've shared another link to
BIS and we are going to explore that. This is
pib dot EU. But they have some projects for three

(01:19:57):
D printed houses in tech Access, So if you would
like to discuss that, I think that would be interesting
as well.

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
Yeah, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
From my understanding. Is one of these projects where you
would three D print I believe it was one hundred
houses in as fast as possible to help people that
have become or I have been looking for houses and
I have here's the price at the coal cost of

(01:20:33):
this one hundred four square meter one hundred four square
meter is one two hundred square feet roughly from the
top of my head is twenty three thousand a dollar.
So I would say that's an extremely good place. Sure
it's one story, but it's fast, it's extremely affordable. I

(01:20:58):
would say, I'm not sure what the prices are and
access all in housing of all, but yeah, it's one
of these potential entry level houses. Twenty five thousand UO
dollars seems like a good price for a house of
this size. It's not like even the smallest house one
hundred four square meter is a lot. The flat I

(01:21:19):
live it right now is just sixty square meters, so
it's eight hundred square foot.

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
So just.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
The solid idea and needs more investing and testing and
more acceptance. Acceptance as you said, the main problem right now.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Yes, absolutely, and I'm looking at this page right now.
They have some interesting designs, so not just rectangular designs,
but some with rounded corners as well, for again some
more morphological diversity. And twelve hundred square feet is a
very respectable size for a starter home in the United States.
I would say if every buddy in the younger generation

(01:22:02):
in the US got a twelve hundred square foot starter home.
There wouldn't be this push for let's say, political chaos,
there wouldn't be the radicalization that we're seeing right now
among young people, because they would feel like they have
a decent chance at prosperity, and they would see these

(01:22:26):
starter homes as a kind of beginning base of operations
and they could build their way up from there or
earn their way up from there. But I think it's
very important. It's essential indeed to enable people to have
a foot in the door metaphorically, if they're able to

(01:22:47):
contribute anything of value, then a starter home like that
is a very reasonable expectation. It was a very reasonable
expectation and widespread even say two generations ago, for people
who were starting out, usually in their twenties, they would
get a house of that size and that was considered

(01:23:08):
a starter home, and then they would move up into
a larger house by the time they were in their thirties.
But if that could be replicated again, I think that
would solve a lot of societal issues, a lot of discontent,
a lot of polarization, a lot of perceived alienation in
Western countries, and really revive what has been called the

(01:23:31):
American dream. But it really is a human dream. It's
an aspiration to have a place of one's own and
have a place where one can start to work toward
something greater as well. So very intriguing possibilities. Now, there
was also a discussion about three D printing of rocket components.

(01:23:58):
So Daniel tweedmen Relativity Space is a rocket company and
he writes the on our engines integrate powderbed fusion with
proprietary wire arc additive manufacturing or WAAM techniques. So this
is a rocket company that is using additive manufacturing. And

(01:24:21):
I see that you've got what looks like a Saturn
rocket behind you, so you have some interest in this area.
How can three D printing and additive manufacturing contribute to
building rockets?

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
Oh wait, that's also a big part. I've been to
the with the formats. That's one of the biggest tree
printing trade shows or expos in the world, especially here
the one in Germany, and there's a lot of companies
to metal printing for heat exchanges on rockets, combustion chambers,

(01:25:00):
custom nouzzles. Because again it's any process, so it for
metal or plastic. You have to remove a lot of
material and conventional manufacturing, and so this is like the
prime area for tree D printing. They will start with

(01:25:20):
nothing and just add what you need instead of removing
a lot. And also the idea for three D printing
that you could make parts easier. So instead of having
a lot of small parts you need to bowl together
well to get on a rocket engine, you could simplify
it by eliminating all the smaller parts just printing one

(01:25:43):
complex but automated part. So that is already a big
advancement in the treaty printing of rocket engines. And it's
just a yeah, it keeps getting improving. As I said,
the printing company I worked for, the last contact I

(01:26:03):
heard was from n TOP that's an American company doing
simulations for parts and they also work for NASA. So
any heat exchanger or yeah, combustion chamber and a rocket
that needs to be specialized or needs to have specially

(01:26:24):
specific parts or material properties in different places could have that.
With three D printing, you could automate the change of
material in a printer and just make the correct material
in the correct place, so you have the most optimized
rocket impossible.

Speaker 1 (01:26:44):
Yes, indeed, and again the three D printing of components
could help. If there's something in a rocket that is
malfunctioning or needs to be replaced, you might not need
to go back to the original manufacturer. One of the
reasons why the Space Shuttle program failed, even though it

(01:27:04):
was a great idea to have a reusable launch vehicle,
and you can see behind me some Space Shuttle models
as well, it was really a political reason. The US
federal government wanted a contractor in every state, at least
one contractor in every state for the Space Shuttle program
to create political buy in. But that distributed the manufacturing

(01:27:27):
and made it a lot more expensive, and if some
part broke, you needed to find the exact manufacturer that
created that part, and sometimes there would be backlogs or
that manufacturer wasn't in a position to create it. So
it became very cumbersome and expensive to maintain the Space shuttles.
And that's a shame. But what if the Space Shuttle

(01:27:50):
program weren't discontinued, and my view, that was an unfortunate
decision to ended. What if three D printing were around
to print some of those replacements hearts and make the
reusable launch vehicles a lot cheaper. I think that might
be a future path toward reviving reusable launch vehicles as well.

(01:28:12):
So on the subject of rockets, John H. Wrights he
likes the Saturn five model behind You as well Tobius,
and he also writes, in terms of making housing more affordable,
making it easier for younger people to afford it, don't
make them go broke with outrageous student debt. So I

(01:28:33):
actually think this is one area where Europe is ahead
of the United States, because student debt isn't really a
phenomenon in Europe as far as I'm aware, most university
education is either freely available or available at reasonable tuition,
and people do not start out in a financial hole

(01:28:55):
in their lives. And I think student debt is a
form of indentured serveude. It should be abolished. That is
my view. Students should not be getting loans with dubious
prospects for repayment, which then cannot be discharged in bankruptcy.
But John H. Also writes he thinks having concerns about

(01:29:16):
who wants neighbors might be as legitimate, especially for people
with children. And I think the approach of building new
housing building new neighborhoods, especially on formerly vacant land is
a good approach to address those concerns. So again, if
you take land in Nevada eighty five percent or so

(01:29:36):
of which is federally owned, you privatize a portion of
the land, maybe it's on the outskirts somewhere still reasonably
close to a population center, to various amenities, and you
build a neighborhood of tiny homes there. You three D
print them. Maybe some people there will be formerly homeless,
some people are just starting out. But a person who

(01:29:57):
is more affluent might not be interested in a place
like that. So you have another neighborhood, but the people
in existing neighborhoods wouldn't necessarily be close to it, and
there could be other criteria. For instance, the US Transhumanist
Party advocates when these homes are created for the formerly

(01:30:19):
homeless individuals, there could be some restrictions there, like no
alcohol or drugs allowed in these communities, so that these
people have the opportunity to clean themselves up. If addiction
issues were a part of the reason why they became homeless,
then their supply would be taken away and instead they
would be encouraged to find productive employment to again start

(01:30:43):
rebuilding their lives. I think that's an important component to
solving the homelessness crisis. But I think there should be
many fewer restrictions on what gets built and where. And
although a lot of people bemoan sprawl or suburban sprawl,
whatever it might be called, I actually think that's a

(01:31:03):
good That is a good phenomenon because that allows people
to again live where they choose and for there to
be diversity in neighborhoods. If people want to live in
a particular neighborhood with certain characteristics, they could set that up.
If other people want to live in a different neighborhood,
that's fine too, they can set that up. And new
technologies allow for these neighborhoods to be built more cheaply,

(01:31:26):
more efficiently, so that more people have these kinds of opportunities.
And again I'm of the view that if people have
more economic prosperity, more economic stability, more potential for upward mobility,
they're not going to be as inclined to engage in
criminal behaviors or even dissipative behaviors like say alcohol abuse

(01:31:49):
or drug abuse, because they have something to look forward to.
And I think that's important to consider all of these
vices that we're seeing around us. They're a phenomenon of
economic decline. And if we can reverse the decline through
technological progress, I think we will be much better off
as a society. And haha, art Ramon says that he

(01:32:15):
wants his yearly dividend of salmon and venison. Is that
going to be the new way of administering a universal
basic income? Perhaps three D printing of these meats so
that we don't have to end the lives of any
animals for that. But yes, I think we need to

(01:32:36):
consider how to create greater abundance in all areas of life.
And I'm interested in your thoughts to be a sense,
you work in a field that could greatly improve abundance
through technology. What are some promising pathways that you see
in this regard.

Speaker 2 (01:33:01):
There is great potential for on one point, saving a
lot of electronically just the printing of spare parts to
make sure that not as many electronics or even cars
go to waste, and so extend the life to be

(01:33:24):
still somewhat reliable. This already is potential for economic the
course of buying a new car instead of preparing it.
Over All, the medical field be the pinting of implants.
That's something that we could already have more of, in

(01:33:45):
my opinion, and something that has also a lot of
potential to save lives the moment we start scaling it up,
using it more. And I personally was just a I'm
not sure what the American law with that, But in
Germany you have verbal or formal contracts potentially with universities,

(01:34:13):
so it's like a organ donor. And my agreement is
with the nearest emergency university clinic is if nothing happens
to me, test whatever high tech stuff you have on me.
I'm aware of the risk, and if I'm not aware
of the risk, this person may judge for me. So

(01:34:38):
if I get into an accident and have to be
flown out there, I might get the latest test part
and yeah, test it for a short time or maybe
it's going to be a failure. But that's personally something
I said, Okay, I'm fine with that risk testing and

(01:35:03):
yeah with organs, it's gonna be a bad logger. Before
we have this, we have two D printed meats, we
already have medical parts, medicine and personalized drugs. It's already
something that's more and more common because you can personalize
with two D printing, be it drugs, be it a house,

(01:35:25):
be it any private personally gadget. That's something you could
do at no extra cost. And this personalization is already
a nice thing you can have. As you said, the housing,
that's something we overall should push more for because it

(01:35:47):
has low cost. In the moment you start having the
teople and the machines available, you could make more houses
relatively fast and easily. And yeah, I guess that combined
with give people more opportunity and more stability. From that

(01:36:09):
point onward, you have your house, you can do, Yeah,
go into maybe training or retrain yourself because you feel
the job may have been lost, so you could have
it like as a backup net or just as a
new standpoint. So that already has a lot of good

(01:36:34):
possibilities you could hope for, we could all hope for
and push for in the near future. With the more
advanced stuff, that's probably gonna be a bit more, a
bit longer, But yeah, I see a lot of nice
things coming up for us.

Speaker 1 (01:36:54):
Yes, and all of these pathways they add up, even
in terms of what is available today with various replacement
parts or houses, even simpler houses that can add up
in total that could contribute to some significant improvement in

(01:37:14):
people's lives. And as Jason points out, nothing stops a
bullet like a job. So if fewer people are in
a financially precarious situation, if fewer people are on the
margins of losing either their job or their home, then
there won't be as much social unrest or upheaval. And

(01:37:37):
I think the important insight to understand about transhumanists is
that we are very pro social. We are interested in
underlying societal stability and good order and peace because those
are required for technologies to advance. You don't get a

(01:37:58):
lot of technological innovation when there are violent revolutions, when
there's blood in the streets, when there are segments of
society that are really feeling discontented and acting out on it.
So we would rather alleviate that. We would rather have
conditions where these people don't feel that way, so that

(01:38:19):
the background stability is there for innovation to continue. Now.
Daniel Tweet rights Rocket Lab three D printing in its
electron rocket for the Rutherford Engine, which is considered the
world's first three D printed electric pump fed orbital engine.

(01:38:40):
So interesting example of three D printing in rocketry, and
aren't romone rights What they need is a medical scanner
that tells you precisely what one is currently in need
of nutritionally and then three D printing it. So that's interesting.
That's essentially getting close to Star Trek replicator territory. So

(01:39:05):
to be is when do you think we'll have essentially
food replicators in homes or in easily accessible public facilities
where you can say, okay, I want this particular dish
and it will prepare one for you. How close do
you think we are from that stage of the technology.

Speaker 2 (01:39:29):
If you want to limit yourself to pasta and chocolate,
you could have it already. Anything more, the food, especially meat, plants,
Plants is something you could grow poorly in a bioreactor
unless it's algae. So meat is something that's researched. Anything

(01:39:54):
else not really, so most people ignored right now. But
about the health scan I have some good news. I
myself moving more and as mechatronics, as mechanical and electronics.
I'm moving more into embedded systems and variables. So my

(01:40:16):
next job as a research assistant that's hopefully starting it
next month, is in improving or developing the open leg
project from the Michigan University. So we have been given
a grant from the EUROPEID Union to develop this open

(01:40:36):
source project. This will be starting October. Another part of
what I do is developing TRET printed prostses and developing
the embedded systems around it with sensors too. Maybe not
scan everything that's wrong with you, but at least partially

(01:40:59):
something that could be wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
Mhm. Yes, that's intriguing. So in terms of three D
printed prosthetics, do you think it will soon be widespread,
for instance, for amputees to have three D printed functional
prosthetic clims.

Speaker 5 (01:41:18):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:41:18):
Yeah, absolutely, there's a there's a few projects I know of.
It's it's a Victoria arm, it's a Canadian project. They
already do prostheses. I know a lot of or thesis
and prosthesis technicians on LinkedIn that are building out their

(01:41:42):
own laps to have water V printing. And yeah, now
if the war in Ukraine, there's a lot more in Europe,
more development, more people that need prostheses, so it's more
of a push for it. And again it's it's the

(01:42:04):
strength of tutor printing. You have something personalized especially as
a patient needs and therefore hopefully gets soon at a
relatively low cost because of the printing process.

Speaker 1 (01:42:23):
Yes, indeed, and here's the website for the Victoria hand projects,
so check that out if you would like to learn
about the state of the art in three D printed
prosthetics and Daniel Tweed sites Captain Jean Luke Picard t

(01:42:44):
Earl Gray hot So that's easy. You can get Earl
Gray tea today through a machine, and well in Europe
it's even nicer. So I've visited Ireland four times over
the past four years, and I've always been fascinated by

(01:43:06):
the coffee machines there because of the variety of caffeinated
beverages and non caffeinated beverages as well that you could
have created for you at the push of a button.
And I think for Europeans that's pretty routine now, so
they're surprised at how surprised I am by the availability

(01:43:27):
of these. But yes, these are high quality coffee machines.
The ones in the United States are very rudimentary compared
to what exists in Europe. But yes, you can get
or Gray tea and other kinds of teas as well.
From various machines today. I don't think you need to
three D print tea, though, I think simpler technologies can

(01:43:48):
get you to the point where that's pretty much, if
not instantaneous, then very quick. Jason Gerringer writes Earl Gray
as his favorite tea, and Daniel tweet points out of
Japan has an amazing food vending machine culture, so perhaps
even more advanced than in Europe. And I think we

(01:44:09):
always need to maintain an international perspective on this, because
a lot of countries have more advanced consumer technologies than
the United States now, and we're at the center of
the empire. Sometimes people at the center of the empire
get this sense of superiority, like nothing can best what

(01:44:30):
they have. But that's actually a very dangerous kind of
delusion to be under because the rest of the world
is moving forward, and sometimes in the US too many
factors slow progress down, and we need to identify what
those factors are and remove the obstacles. So very interesting conversation. Now,
we have about nine minutes left in our salon. I

(01:44:52):
wanted to make sure to be us that you showed
us some of your other three D printed objects that
you have avail.

Speaker 4 (01:45:02):
Oh yeah, so.

Speaker 2 (01:45:04):
I could I have some year. The rest is bye
the box, the large box. So one of the things
that's also from an American university. So in research to America,
the United States are still leading a lot of areas.
This is like a complied mechanism. So by bending this part,
these tweets as close. So for example, without hinges, that's

(01:45:28):
extremely new, not really used in anything but research. But
again it's a thing you could look up the papers,
read the papers, and then I bought the book because
it's all the information compiled. But you could printer us
on your own, printer tested and do a little bit
of citizen science on your own, and that's one of

(01:45:52):
the nice parts. Again, it's like the carbon fiber reinforced.
This one has a you can maybe see the black
lines here that's carbon fiber. It's one long fiber. So
this part is extremely strong and nearly impossible to pull apart.
So this is like the high tech stuff that's already possible.

(01:46:14):
This one is a silicone three printed. Again, this is
like the industrial stuff, but it's also used for the
medical implants or cosmetic surgery. So if you have any
I believe one of the stories on the website is
an American soldier you got injured by an ied and

(01:46:35):
has lost part of his legs, so they are three
D printed a replacement part to make his.

Speaker 4 (01:46:43):
Normal in.

Speaker 2 (01:46:45):
Apostrophe. So it's something you could use to improve lives today.
And I think that's the nice part about three D
printing that you can get into it relatively easily. The
machines are cheaper, it's easier to get into it.

Speaker 1 (01:46:59):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:47:01):
The end is it's pretty much open. You can do
a lot of stuff with it, be it helping your
friends print your customs or designing your own parts, helping
others printing spare parts. So it's relatively open, and the
idea of the open source still as strongly ass or.

Speaker 3 (01:47:21):
I like.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
The community is nice and I encourage everyone, as I said,
earn a bit asking me in the discord. I unfortunately
don't have a Facebook, but yeah, ask someone happy to help,
and maybe there's a few more questions we could answer
the rest of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:47:42):
Certainly, certainly, and thank you for showing these additional three
D printed components. It was really a good demonstration of
the variety of materials that one could three D print
with now, as well as some of the properties of
these materials, like durability or flexibility, so this is really

(01:48:05):
quite fascinating. John H. Remarx. Even current prostheses are light
years ahead of the old peg legs or even the
ones in use twenty years ago. So there are runners
now who have prosthetic feet, and they can sometimes run
faster than ordinary runners with biological feet, so that's interesting too.

(01:48:30):
Even being an amputee doesn't prevent one from being a
competitive runner. Daniel Tweed has an interesting comment. He thinks
there should be an annual award for the most clever
new three D printed object. Maybe there is one already.
Do you know of any such awards in the three
D printing field.

Speaker 2 (01:48:53):
I notice some events or awards on dustrial trade shows,
and I know that some like the website I'll show
you have my printing parts, they have competitions every now
and then where they give away coupons or material so
that their own saving points. So there are some, but

(01:49:16):
they're pretty localized to the application or to the potential market,
not like one big everyone everything is covered. But maybe
that's something I don't know, because I'm still like the
small niche. It feels like I'm start doing engineering parts
for companies with a bit of defense and a bit

(01:49:37):
of medical stuff if the project comes up.

Speaker 1 (01:49:44):
All right, thank you for that answer. And Mike Louisine wonders,
what is the biggest size three D printer available right now?
Are you aware of, say, the largest scale at which
something could be three D printed today?

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
Yeah, they not just print I know of. It's also
in an American university. I believe it's Maine or Michigan.
It's it's a boat. You could print a boat. It's
a by ninety by sixty feet, so a small boat

(01:50:21):
to contritely print in a couple of days. It's the
top size I know.

Speaker 1 (01:50:27):
Nice. Nice. So if one wants even more abundance and
wants to compete with all of the billionaires with their yachts,
maybe that's a start to three D print a boat.
And perhaps there will be some larger three D printed
boats available in the future as well. So Jason has

(01:50:49):
a question, and I think this will be a good
question to conclude our salon on since we have three minutes,
what would you like to do with technologlogy in the
future to be.

Speaker 2 (01:51:01):
As Oh that's I personally, as I said, with the prostheses.
I normally print for companies, but I printed for one
defense company in Sweden. They're doing EOD education parts. So

(01:51:24):
that was really cool, just like not just print parts
for companies to save the money or make some money,
but to actually print parts that help other people. And
also with the embedded systems the prostises, this combined combination
is one just good future proving and job stability if

(01:51:47):
it comes up. But yeah, it's just like to do
more in education to help people understand. I focus on German,
but if something I was up us ask me and yeah,
just trying to get more people on board, helping them
get into three D printing and getting better at all

(01:52:11):
things technology. I come across myself that's like what I
want to do, and then apply it in a helping
it good way to say.

Speaker 5 (01:52:22):
So, yes, thank you very much for that answer, and
we wish you all the best in those pursuits in
broadening your reach.

Speaker 1 (01:52:35):
Jennifer Hughes says that is super cool. And also you
share a link about the open source legs, so there
are open source prosthetic initiatives that are happening right now.
I think that is highly encouraging to help patience and

(01:52:55):
to bring about this greater merger between humans and technology.
It's already happening to a significant extent, of course, with
functional prosthetics artificial organs. We'll be using three D printing
in biological applications as we discussed with three D printing
of organs, three D printing of meat, and in larger

(01:53:19):
consumer applications homes, vehicles, space travel. This does promise a
future of significantly greater abundance, eventually leading to radical abundance.
And we would like to thank you Tobias for showing
us some of the technological possibilities that are available today,

(01:53:42):
some of the objects that already exist, some of the
opportunities for people to get involved. This will be an
important area for helping us all to live long and
prosper

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